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6days
October 7th, 2015, 09:40 AM
National Enquirer sometimes will have a headline like 'Hidden Code in Bible to Bring You Wealth'. Most of us pass this off as hucksterism (is that a word?)

But..... do you think there are genuine hidden messages / codes in scripture? Or, are these just attempts to read things into scripture that God didn't intend.

Here is an interesting example... (Do you know of others?)

The Gospel message of salvation is hidden in the meaning of the 10 names leading from Adam to Noah.

Adam...means, man
Seth .... means, Appointed
Enosh ..means, Mortal
Kenan ...means, Sorrow
Mahalalel... means, The Blessed God
Jared ...means, Shall come down
Enoch ...means,Teaching
Methuselah... means, His death shall bring
Lamech ...means, The Despairing
Noah ...means, Rest, or comfort.

The Gospel
Man is appointed mortal sorrow; but the Blessed God shall come down teaching that His death shall bring the despairing rest.

RBBI
October 7th, 2015, 10:00 AM
ABSOLUTELY; there are many codes. At least one rabbi found evidence of the ELS code in the 1800's. Can't remember which one now, but one of our scientists from a few hundred years ago, whose hobby was bible study, found the same type of code in there.

HaShem is making sure none will have any excuse in the last days. Peace

Wick Stick
October 7th, 2015, 10:19 AM
Your definitions on some of those names are pretty iffy.

Seth means something closer to "compensated." The idea is of a replacement, not an appointment of someone who already exists.

Enosh means "men," and does not carry the idea of mortality, except for the poetic substitution of "mortals" as a name for men. "What knaves these mortals be!" carries the sense of the word.

Cainan/Kenan properly means "nest" or "one who nests." The idea is that of someone who builds towns, rather than dwelling nomadically.

Mahalal-el means "praise God." You're close on that one.

Jared you have correct.

Enoch is closer to "trainee" than "training."

Methuselah is a combination of the words for "death" and "weapon."

Nobody really knows exactly what Lamech means. All answers are conjecture.

And, yes, Noah means rest.

Wick Stick
October 7th, 2015, 10:23 AM
To answer the question, though. There are some small hidden messages in the Bible. Acrostic was a poetic form in the Hebrew language, and finds some use in Scripture.

But, long sequences of codes that only computers can decipher? No such thing was intended by God or man.

If you look hard enough, you can even find things that aren't really there.

Jarrod

patrick jane
October 7th, 2015, 10:33 AM
To answer the question, though. There are some small hidden messages in the Bible. Acrostic was a poetic form in the Hebrew language, and finds some use in Scripture.

But, long sequences of codes that only computers can decipher? No such thing was intended by God or man.

If you look hard enough, you can even find things that aren't really there.

Jarrod


True, the human mind looks for and will even create patterns, but to say that you know God's intended plans or details is off base.

RBBI
October 7th, 2015, 10:49 AM
To answer the question, though. There are some small hidden messages in the Bible. Acrostic was a poetic form in the Hebrew language, and finds some use in Scripture.

But, long sequences of codes that only computers can decipher? No such thing was intended by God or man.

If you look hard enough, you can even find things that aren't really there.

Jarrod

This is an uninformed opinion. I know it is, because if you had ever read the evidence they've found for and in the codes, you could/would never arrive at this opinion. Peace

Wick Stick
October 7th, 2015, 11:11 AM
This is an uninformed opinion. I know it is, because if you had ever read the evidence they've found for and in the codes, you could/would never arrive at this opinion. Peace
I've read The Bible Code, by Michael Drosnin. If you have something else to recommend, by all means do so.

Jarrod

Wick Stick
October 7th, 2015, 11:13 AM
True, the human mind looks for and will even create patterns, but to say that you know God's intended plans or details is off base.
If we cannot know the will of God, or understand the spirit in which He acts, then what are we even doing here?

1Co 15:19 comes to mind.

Jarrod

Lon
October 7th, 2015, 11:36 AM
Bible Codes, seem to be efforts in creative thinking (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94815)(link given as example here on TOL). While they are interesting, they don't seem to hold up well under scrutiny, imho. I believe time spent on the straight-forward morals, teachings, and directions is incredibly more important than anything going on behind the scenes. King David obviously spent time looking at stars and penned "the heavens declare the glory of God. The Wisemen obviously followed stars to Bethlehem. I believe, however, that general revelation, the Bible, is a better empirical source of direction and information and worth more of our time in a straightforward manner.

Deu 6:6 And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart.
Deu 6:7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
Deu 6:8 You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
Deu 6:9 You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

patrick jane
October 7th, 2015, 11:40 AM
If we cannot know the will of God, or understand the spirit in which He acts, then what are we even doing here?

1Co 15:19 comes to mind.

Jarrod

you can't have the mind of God, that has nothing to do with hope

RBBI
October 7th, 2015, 03:25 PM
This is an uninformed opinion. I know it is, because if you had ever read the evidence they've found for and in the codes, you could/would never arrive at this opinion. Peace

Start with googling Eliyahu Rips.....Peace

Ask Mr. Religion
October 7th, 2015, 03:33 PM
Gematria and so on is nothing but mysticism. The Jews have been doing this with Kabbala and their other writings for centuries.

http://www.reasons.org/articles/10-criticisms-of-the-bible-code
http://www.reasons.org/articles/cracking-the-codes

Itchy ears. Sigh.

AMR

jamie
October 7th, 2015, 04:22 PM
you can't have the mind of God, that has nothing to do with hope



Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus... (Philippians 2:5 NKJV)

RBBI
October 7th, 2015, 07:37 PM
Gematria and so on is nothing but mysticism. The Jews have been doing this with Kabbala and their other writings for centuries.

http://www.reasons.org/articles/10-criticisms-of-the-bible-code
http://www.reasons.org/articles/cracking-the-codes

Itchy ears. Sigh.

AMR

It has NOTHING to do with Kabbalah OR mysticism. It is a fact, that the Father wove these things into the fabric of the Torah, and it is BEAUTIFUL to behold His workmanship, which makes it IMPOSSIBLE to lie against the veracity of it being from Him because no man could do it.

It should be something awesome and amazing and worthy to be praised for the sheer magnificence of it, and instead some of you seem more inclined to spit on it. Shame on you.

Ask Mr. Religion
October 7th, 2015, 11:57 PM
It has NOTHING to do with Kabbalah OR mysticism. It is a fact, that the Father wove these things into the fabric of the Torah, and it is BEAUTIFUL to behold His workmanship, which makes it IMPOSSIBLE to lie against the veracity of it being from Him because no man could do it.

It should be something awesome and amazing and worthy to be praised for the sheer magnificence of it, and instead some of you seem more inclined to spit on it. Shame on you.

HRMs (https://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/tag/messianic-christianity/).

Sigh (https://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/a-nail-in-the-coffin-of-the-hebrew-roots-movement/).

AMR

MichaelCadry
October 8th, 2015, 01:50 AM
Dear 6days,

They've come to me saying 'there is a cure for cancer, and all other maladies' in three words in the Old Testament. Turns out, they were 'Tree of Life" and they say this tree's relatives can be found somewhere in the Amazon. Who's going to ever find those. How convenient. Just a ploy to get you to read it.

God Is With You!!

Michael

Totton Linnet
October 8th, 2015, 02:38 AM
None so blind as My servant who will not see nor so deaf that he will not hear.

God doesn't speak in riddles or codes, He shouts from the rooftops

Give and it shall be given you again good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over shall men put into your bosom.

Seek ye FIRST the kingdom of God and His righteousness and ALL these things will be added unto you.

It is not only in holy writ but look around you, SEE which are the wealthy nations and which are the poor.

We are such a foolish people but God has never hidden Himself in riddles.

RBBI
October 8th, 2015, 10:42 AM
None so blind as My servant who will not see nor so deaf that he will not hear.

God doesn't speak in riddles or codes, He shouts from the rooftops

Give and it shall be given you again good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over shall men put into your bosom.

Seek ye FIRST the kingdom of God and His righteousness and ALL these things will be added unto you.

It is not only in holy writ but look around you, SEE which are the wealthy nations and which are the poor.

We are such a foolish people but God has never hidden Himself in riddles.

Do you guys study the Word for yourselves, or just listen and parrot your teachers who vomit scriptures all over their tables without gleaning any LIFE out of them, like the modern Pharisees that they are?

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Psa 18:11 He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.

Psa 25:14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

Isa 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

Dan 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.

Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets

Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Totton Linnet
October 8th, 2015, 11:03 AM
Yes we are His servants, we are they who fear Him...to YOU is darkness and riddles.

You Think you are very deep, very wise...but you are simpletons, you placed yourself in that category.

RBBI
October 8th, 2015, 11:05 AM
Yes we are His servants, we are they who fear Him...to YOU is darkness and riddles.

And again....Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

Totton Linnet
October 8th, 2015, 11:11 AM
And again....Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

That's what I just told you...you think you are very deep...but God calls you simpletons....you and your buddy

Livelystone
October 8th, 2015, 01:14 PM
This is an uninformed opinion. I know it is, because if you had ever read the evidence they've found for and in the codes, you could/would never arrive at this opinion. Peace

I do not know about complex codes being far to simple myself for anything not made clear by a Father for His children

Seems to me Paul was quite clear when he said they spoke of the wisdom of God in a mystery that indicates to me there is much more to learning the truths of God than can be gained by just studying the Bible like some elementry school kid looking to pass basic arithmetic.

God was kind enough to reveal to me what was hidden away in the law and in particular the laws for determining the truth that I have spelled out in rather long fashion at the link below........... but only if one has better things to do than gain the keys for unlocking all of the mysteries of God

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76526

Wick Stick
October 8th, 2015, 07:21 PM
None so blind as My servant who will not see nor so deaf that he will not hear.

God doesn't speak in riddles or codes, He shouts from the rooftops

Give and it shall be given you again good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over shall men put into your bosom.

Seek ye FIRST the kingdom of God and His righteousness and ALL these things will be added unto you.

It is not only in holy writ but look around you, SEE which are the wealthy nations and which are the poor.

We are such a foolish people but God has never hidden Himself in riddles.
The thing is, people don't like looking at the bare truth of things. It's sort of like staring at the sun - it hurts.

I think that's why we keep trying to fabricate things to hide God and what He plainly says.

Jarrod

RBBI
October 9th, 2015, 02:18 AM
I do not know about complex codes being far to simple myself for anything not made clear by a Father for His children

Seems to me Paul was quite clear when he said they spoke of the wisdom of God in a mystery that indicates to me there is much more to learning the truths of God than can be gained by just studying the Bible like some elementry school kid looking to pass basic arithmetic.

God was kind enough to reveal to me what was hidden away in the law and in particular the laws for determining the truth that I have spelled out in rather long fashion at the link below........... but only if one has better things to do than gain the keys for unlocking all of the mysteries of God

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76526

Well, here's the thing in a nutshell.

1) HaShem did it, and anything He does is beautiful in my eyes, period.

2) I can't believe the work of His hands needs to be defended to Christians.

3) It's been used of Him for a powerful witness to people who wouldn't believe any other way.

4) Those of you it bothers, please take it up with Him. Peace

Livelystone
October 9th, 2015, 07:02 AM
Well, here's the thing in a nutshell.

1) HaShem did it, and anything He does is beautiful in my eyes, period.

2) I can't believe the work of His hands needs to be defended to Christians.

3) It's been used of Him for a powerful witness to people who wouldn't believe any other way.

4) Those of you it bothers, please take it up with Him. Peace

Fair enough :thumb:

CherubRam
October 10th, 2015, 04:15 AM
At times the ancient scribes did add code to their writings, however, for the most part there is no code in most biblical writings. Always be careful not to imagine vain things.

RBBI
October 10th, 2015, 07:08 AM
You should do the same. You clearly have not studied the subject, yet decided you were qualified to make a blanket statement. That's a pretty vain thing. If you HAD, you would know there is NO WAY, the "scribes" could have encoded it the entire thing with the incredible detail that is contained therein. Nor do you understand the way the books were copied by the scribes, because if they were off by more than ONE LETTER, they were taken out and buried. Peace

Tambora
October 10th, 2015, 09:57 AM
To answer the question, though. There are some small hidden messages in the Bible. Acrostic was a poetic form in the Hebrew language, and finds some use in Scripture.

But, long sequences of codes that only computers can decipher? No such thing was intended by God or man.

If you look hard enough, you can even find things that aren't really there.

JarrodI tend to agree with this.

A problem with the sequences is that none of them are consistent through the whole bible.
In other words ...... if you take every 7th letter, it might reveal an actual coherent sentence somewhere in the mix, but the code is not consistent throughout scripture.

Desert Reign
October 10th, 2015, 10:40 AM
A man called Ivan Panin in the pre-computer era spent his whole life analysing patterns in the scriptures. He learnt Hebrew and Greek and created hundreds of thousands of pages of numerical analysis showing how the scriptures were filled with astronomically improbable patterns and codes in the original languages. I was interested in this for a brief while, but it didn't take long to realise that the whole thing was built on sand. A simple failure to self-criticise. The more he studied, the more he saw - but all he was seeing was the invention of his own imaginations. He wasted his entire life on this project. He was apparently very sincere, but also so sadly misguided.

OCTOBER23
October 10th, 2015, 10:45 AM
People want to know the FUTURE.

REV 19:10 - JESUS TESTIMONY IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY .

CherubRam
October 10th, 2015, 11:02 AM
You should do the same. You clearly have not studied the subject, yet decided you were qualified to make a blanket statement. That's a pretty vain thing. If you HAD, you would know there is NO WAY, the "scribes" could have encoded it the entire thing with the incredible detail that is contained therein. Nor do you understand the way the books were copied by the scribes, because if they were off by more than ONE LETTER, they were taken out and buried. Peace

You are wrong, I have studied the subject.

RBBI
October 10th, 2015, 11:19 AM
If you studied the same things I did, then you have no excuse. Peace

MichaelCadry
October 11th, 2015, 04:12 AM
A man called Ivan Panin in the pre-computer era spent his whole life analysing patterns in the scriptures. He learnt Hebrew and Greek and created hundreds of thousands of pages of numerical analysis showing how the scriptures were filled with astronomically improbable patterns and codes in the original languages. I was interested in this for a brief while, but it didn't take long to realise that the whole thing was built on sand. A simple failure to self-criticise. The more he studied, the more he saw - but all he was seeing was the invention of his own imaginations. He wasted his entire life on this project. He was apparently very sincere, but also so sadly misguided.


Dear Desert Reign,

Yes, I agree with you and AMR. We know that there are secrets at least in the books of Daniel and Revelation, and the truth of those is given to whom God decides. But note that the mystery of God shall come in the End Times. Let me quote a scripture for you:

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be fiinished, as He hath declared to His servants, the prophets." {Rev. 10:7KJV}

I'm sure God has shown us some mysteries so far, but the ones that count will come near the end. Hang in there.

With God's Love And My Own,

Michael

Totton Linnet
October 11th, 2015, 02:56 PM
The thing is, people don't like looking at the bare truth of things. It's sort of like staring at the sun - it hurts.

I think that's why we keep trying to fabricate things to hide God and what He plainly says.

Jarrod

sums up mysticism quite well really.

MichaelCadry
October 13th, 2015, 03:58 AM
Dear 6days,

I don't believe there are secret messages in the books of the Bible by counting every seventh letter, etc. But that doesn't mean I'm right. I need some proof, which I'm not so sure that anyone is offering here. Make this interesting and show yourself. Astound me!

Much Love, Like In Jesus Christ's Commandments,

Michael

MichaelCadry
October 14th, 2015, 10:15 PM
Dear All,

No one has any answers, eh?

Michael

:singer: :cloud9:

George Affleck
October 15th, 2015, 07:27 AM
National Enquirer sometimes will have a headline like 'Hidden Code in Bible to Bring You Wealth'. Most of us pass this off as hucksterism (is that a word?)

But..... do you think there are genuine hidden messages / codes in scripture? Or, are these just attempts to read things into scripture that God didn't intend.


There is one main message to man in the Bible - Redemption by Christ.

It is hidden to those who will not hear.

George Affleck
October 15th, 2015, 07:32 AM
Dear 6days,

I don't believe there are secret messages in the books of the Bible by counting every seventh letter, etc. But that doesn't mean I'm right. I need some proof, which I'm not so sure that anyone is offering here. Make this interesting and show yourself. Astound me!

Much Love, Like In Jesus Christ's Commandments,

Michael

Hi Michael!
Blessings.

The answer to "secret" messages is in 2Pet 1:20KJV

2Pet 1:20NASB

nikolai_42
October 15th, 2015, 07:48 AM
It has NOTHING to do with Kabbalah OR mysticism. It is a fact, that the Father wove these things into the fabric of the Torah, and it is BEAUTIFUL to behold His workmanship, which makes it IMPOSSIBLE to lie against the veracity of it being from Him because no man could do it.

It should be something awesome and amazing and worthy to be praised for the sheer magnificence of it, and instead some of you seem more inclined to spit on it. Shame on you.

If that's all it is - a thing of beauty and wonder to behold (reflective of the mathematical splendor of God), that's great. But that's not what it is used for. It is used to do more questionable things such as :

1. Confirm the inspiration of the scriptures
2. Look for other prophetic direction

The first seems like a reasonable conclusion to make, but even it is shaky. After all, the same process has been used in other works (Tolstoy's War and Peace (https://cs.anu.edu.au/people/Brendan.McKay/dilugim/WNP/) for example - check out the .pdf on that page...and Predicted Assassinations in Moby Dick? (https://cs.anu.edu.au/people/Brendan.McKay/dilugim/moby.html)).

The second conclusion is a bigger leap that makes the bible a possible source of divination. We are not given direction in looking for answers in any other way than reading what it plainly says (and seeking the Author for guidance). Beyond that, all we have is an open-ended process that could potentially lead people to any number of conclusions. CRI has a brief article on this (http://www.equip.org/article/equidistant-letter-sequencing/).

While God does hide Himself and we are to find Him, He is clear about how we are to do so. And open-ended code hunting is not one of the ways.

The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
Deuteronomy 29:29

nikolai_42
October 15th, 2015, 07:50 AM
Dear 6days,

I don't believe there are secret messages in the books of the Bible by counting every seventh letter, etc. But that doesn't mean I'm right. I need some proof, which I'm not so sure that anyone is offering here. Make this interesting and show yourself. Astound me!

Much Love, Like In Jesus Christ's Commandments,

Michael

Whether there are or not, the question becomes "So what?". What are we to do with those hidden codes when we find them? How do we apply them properly? Improperly?

Desert Reign
October 15th, 2015, 08:28 AM
Dear All,

No one has any answers, eh?

Michael

:singer: :cloud9:

As I said, Bible numerics has been disproved. A simple explanation can be found here (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAAahUKEwiX_r6Z08TIAhUEuBoKHb8LCgg&url=http%3A%2F%2Frevivalcentres.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F09%2Fbible-numerics-disproved.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFAEAhTavJ9WhpNuKokL41AXPwoUQ&sig2=LEKGR0O2zV0mxlSEneVPWg&cad=rja).

RBBI
October 15th, 2015, 09:17 AM
Dear All,

No one has any answers, eh?

Michael

:singer: :cloud9:

No, I decided why bother, you already have your minds made up. Peace

serpentdove
July 18th, 2016, 02:35 PM
While they are interesting, they don't seem to hold up well under scrutiny, imho.

"...[I]nternational Bible Code expert Rabbi Matityahu Glazerson released a new Bible Code video he called “Temple will come down to Jerusalem 5776 in bible code.”

At the 3:15 mark, Glazerson points to a Bible code that translates as “God will inform on the 15th of [the Hebrew month of] Av.” This year, the 15th of Av corresponds to Friday, August 19.

“We don’t know exactly what it refers to,” commented Glazerson, but the clear implication is that God will notify us about something important having to do with the Temple on the 15th of Av..." Full text: Will We See Progress on the Third Temple Next Month? (http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/72065/bible-codes-suggest-summer-ripe-building-third-temple/)

See:

Is there any validity to the Bible codes? (http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-codes.html)

Vatican Plot Third Temple (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?117834-Vatican-Plot-Third-Temple-Take-Over-of-Israel&p=4699383#post4699383)

Elia
July 19th, 2016, 11:59 PM
I've read The Bible Code, by Michael Drosnin. If you have something else to recommend, by all means do so.

Jarrod

Bs"d

This is worth reading: The code breaker Harold Gans about the Bible codes (https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/torah-codes).

"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

WonderfulLordJesus
July 20th, 2016, 05:28 AM
Having looked into this Bible codes matter and found it of somewhere in the vicinity of zero merit, save its ability to keep some people off the streets, it does occur to me there is a scan I'd like to see, open to the idea of testing its veracity just one more time.

Not being an aficionado of such stuff, I don't have any software to perform the task, but any of you spiritually challenged, who've found the Bible too inexplicable in its native letter ordering to find it of use, and are, as we speak, pursuing Bible codes, could you please run this scan? Here are the parameters:


"Pope Francis" "Reincarnation" "Curly Howard"

Elia
July 20th, 2016, 06:03 AM
Dear 6days,

I don't believe there are secret messages in the books of the Bible by counting every seventh letter, etc. But that doesn't mean I'm right. I need some proof, which I'm not so sure that anyone is offering here. Make this interesting and show yourself. Astound me!

Bs"d



The first word in the Torah is "bereshiet", that means: "in the beginning". When we from the T of bereshiet skip 49 letters, and take the 50th one, then we get a Wav, (O), another 50 letters further we get a R, and again 50 letters further a H, spelling out "TORaH", the Hebrew word: Torah.

The same thing we see in the second book of the Torah, Exodus. If you start counting from the first Tav (T) in the first sentence of that book, and keep on skipping 49 letters, you again get "Torah".

In the third book of the Torah, Leviticus, if you there take the first Yot, "Y", and then keep on skipping 7 letters, you get Y-H-W-H.

The fourth book of the Torah, Numbers, there in the first sentence of that book is a code which with a skip of 49 letters spells out "Torah", only now backwards: "HaROT".

The same thing we see in the fifth and last book of the Torah, Deuteronomy, where in verse 5 begins a code which spells with a skip of 48 the word Torah, also backwards.

The four encoded words "Torah" are "looking" toward the name of God Y-H-W-H, in the middle book.

These codes are in more detail explained here: http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/docs/1_faqs_torahcode.pdf

Those who want to check it out themselves can find here a Hebrew text of the Bible: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

The Hebrew letters can be found here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebreeuws_alfabet


Another simple code is in the beginning of Genesis 2, starting with the last letter of chapter 1. There it says: "The sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." This is part of the inauguration of the Sabbath which is said by every religious Jew on Friday night.

If we take from that text the last letter of chapter one, a yot, and take from there the seventh letter, and from there the seventh letter, and from there the seventh letter, and from there the seventh letter, then it spells out "ISRAEL".

These are simple codes, which everybody can check out for himself.

And I don't think there be anybody saying this is just coincidence.

So the Torah codes are a fact.

The only question remaining now is: "How deep does the rabbit hole go?"

"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

Elia
July 20th, 2016, 10:44 AM
Bs"d

In the Middle Ages there was a big Jewish sage who lived in Egypt. He was the private physician of the Sultan, and he wrote many books about Judaism, which strongly influenced Judaism. The vast majority of Jewish law nowadays is based on his magnus opus, the "Mishne Torah", speaking about the 613 commandments of the Torah. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments ) His name was Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon, but he was better known by his acronym: Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon = Rambam.

Now we get to another Torah scholar, the genius of Vilna. He lived in the 18th century, and claimed that there is a hint in the Torah which points to the above mentiond Rambam. This he based on the fact that it is written in Exodus 11:9; "I will multiply my miracles in the land of Egypt". And that is where the Rambam lived. In the Hebrew it is written there: "Revot moftai ba'erets Mitsrayiem" The first letters of these words spell "RaMBaM". This is the only place in the whole Torah where this name can be found in the form of an acronym.

Rabbi Weismandl who around World War II found the Purim code with a skip of 12,111 (without computer) found here more hinting to the Rambam.
He discovered that if you take the first M in the text where is spoken about God's miracles in Egypt, and from there you jump 50 letters, and again, and again, then you get the word "Mishne". And a few paragraphs further, also with a skip of 50, you find the word "Torah", making together the title of the book of the Rambam about the 613 commandments; the Mishne Torah.
That book is nowadays still diligently studied by Jewish theology students.

It might have been a bit more elegant when the word "Torah" would have been a bit closer to the word "Mishne", maybe also with a skip of 50, but when Rabbi Weismandl looked into that, he saw that between the M of Mishne and the T of Torah, there are exactly 613 letters.

Isn't that amazing?

WonderfulLordJesus
July 20th, 2016, 10:55 AM
Isn't that amazing?

Yes, but hardly as amazing as some of the codes you get from War and Peace or Moby Dick.

WonderfulLordJesus
July 20th, 2016, 10:57 AM
Having looked into this Bible codes matter and found it of somewhere in the vicinity of zero merit, save its ability to keep some people off the streets, it does occur to me there is a scan I'd like to see, open to the idea of testing its veracity just one more time.

Not being an aficionado of such stuff, I don't have any software to perform the task, but any of you spiritually challenged, who've found the Bible too inexplicable in its native letter ordering to find it of use, and are, as we speak, pursuing Bible codes, could you please run this scan? Here are the parameters:


"Pope Francis" "Reincarnation" "Curly Howard"


Still waiting for the scan results, don't you know? If you guys have a CPU manufactured the past 10 years, you should have some results, by now!

Elia
July 20th, 2016, 11:01 AM
Yes, but hardly as amazing as some of the codes you get from War and Peace or Moby Dick.

Bs"d

Now you're talking!

I think that is mightily interesting. Can you give me some of those codes?

Crucible
July 20th, 2016, 11:04 AM
Why not just make money immorally and then go ask for forgiveness :idunno:

That's what Christians like to preach today- God forgives infinitely :rolleyes:

WonderfulLordJesus
July 20th, 2016, 11:39 AM
Bs"d

Now you're talking!

I think that is mightily interesting. Can you give me some of those codes?

Sorry, just can't exactly remember. Something like intersections of "Long John Silver's" "2002" "Apocalypse" "Free tater tots", or maybe "Russia" "War" "Really screwed our vacation plans" "Antichrist" "Bill Clinton" "Just watch the movie" "Bulgakov is better", or "1999" "Manischewitz Kosher pork rinds" "Rapture" "Where in Hades are my car keys." Wish I could draw the matrices for you, in color. Some of them were just like cute, little starfish!

Had I known you were going to ask, I'd have memorized them for you, instead of spending all that time in the Bible, concentrating on the letters in order. Still, I sort of always figured, if I didn't have a grasp of some things in the Bible, as it stands, I well should have been seeing to the letters God put one after another, first. I was also too busy to signup for the Psychic Friends Network, at the time.

Now, I do remember a website, it was the main, I would add most exalted, one on the web back then, that found the end of the world scheduled in the codes a few months of most years, and, well, everybody getting a shot at being the antichrist in the codes, or having Wormwood land on their garage. I know I'm stupid, but I did once send an email to those guys, asking how they could all disagree and be right, and what about last year's codes they removed? Never got a reply.

(Please, don't say, "Well, the Bible codes can only predict the past." Just don't even go there, please, I'm begging you. I know this is TOL, so it may not seem so, but we all have our limits.)

Elia
July 20th, 2016, 01:23 PM
Sorry, just can't exactly remember. Something like intersections of "Long John Silver's" "2002" "Apocalypse" "Free tater tots", or maybe "Russia" "War" "Really screwed our vacation plans" "Antichrist" "Bill Clinton" "Just watch the movie" "Bulgakov is better", or "1999" "Manischewitz Kosher pork rinds" "Rapture" "Where in Hades are my car keys." Wish I could draw the matrices for you, in color. Some of them were just like cute, little starfish!

Had I known you were going to ask, I'd have memorized them for you, instead of spending all that time in the Bible, concentrating on the letters in order. Still, I sort of always figured, if I didn't have a grasp of some things in the Bible, as it stands, I well should have been seeing to the letters God put one after another, first. I was also too busy to signup for the Psychic Friends Network, at the time.

Now, I do remember a website, it was the main, I would add most exalted, one on the web back then, that found the end of the world scheduled in the codes a few months of most years, and, well, everybody getting a shot at being the antichrist in the codes, or having Wormwood land on their garage. I know I'm stupid, but I did once send an email to those guys, asking how they could all disagree and be right, and what about last year's codes they removed? Never got a reply.

(Please, don't say, "Well, the Bible codes can only predict the past." Just don't even go there, please, I'm begging you. I know this is TOL, so it may not seem so, but we all have our limits.)

Bs"d

I heard before about the codes in War and Peace, and Moby Dick, I looked into it, and nothing like what I bring above is to be found there.

Just doesn't exist.

The Torah is unique.

Elia
July 20th, 2016, 01:31 PM
Bs'd


The codes I showed you guys, four or five lettered words with a skip between 7 and 50, can. with a bit of patience, be integrated in a text. No divine intervention needed for that one. Still, they are good examples to show that the codes are there, because everybody can check it out for himself. Also, the myth about the Bible that the shepherds were laying around the campfire at night, being bored, and decided to put some old myths on paper, is with the existence of those codes shown to be wrong. There definitely is something going on with that text. That's for sure. That's why the Bible codes don't wanna die, because they are right there, alive and kicking.

So now time for some more serious stuff. For this I have to give some background information, for the sake of those who were raised without any knowledge of their Biblical heritage.
The Hebrew Bible, by Jews called “Tanach”, by Christians called “Old Testament”, contains a book called “Esther”. It's about an ugly theme, a theme that unfortunately crops up time and again throughout history, the story of a ruler who decides that today is a good day to start exterminating all the Jews.
The Jews were exiled by the Babylonians, and deported to Babel. There a high placed ruler asked and received from the king permission to murder all the Jews. But there was the queen Esther, a Jewess herself, who managed, with the help of the Almighty of course, to throw a spoke in the wheel of the evil Haman, who wanted to murder all the Jews. The end was all good for the Jews, Haman and his whole family were slaughtered, together with a lot of people who came to murder the Jews, and the fear of the Jews was upon the land. People who want to see that whole original story can look HERE. I can recommend it, nice story, intrigue, violence, humor, and only ten chapters long.
Anyway, the Jews are known for preserving their holy books with an accuracy unmatched by anybody else on the whole earth. No books of more than 2000 years old have been preserved so intact as the Jewish holy books. The Torah, the most Holy part of the Hebrew Bible, is transmitted through the ages, over a time period of 3300 years with an astonishing degree of accuracy. There are very many rules that apply to the copying process of Torah scrolls: They may only be written on parchment of kosher animals, which must be sewn together with tendons of kosher animals. It may only be written by a Jew, dressed in a Jewish garment, in a state of ritual purity, which means that, amongst other things, he must wash himself in a ritual bath. Even his state of mind is subjected to certain rulings. The whole manuscript must be ruled before it is written upon, when three words are written without ruling, the whole manuscript is disqualified and must be buried. The ink may only be black, prepared according to an ancient recipe. The Torah scroll may only be copied from another authentic scroll, and absolutely no deviation is allowed. Absolutely no words may be written without first looking to the example. The length of each column must be between 48 and 60 rules, and the width must be 30 letters. Between the letters must be a space as wide as a hair, between the paragraphs a space of nine letters, between the books a space of three rules. Calculations have been made how many letters there are in the whole Torah, which letter is the middle, how many letters there are in every book of the Torah, how many times certain words and even letters appear in the text. And there are many, many more rules for copying Torah scrolls that are still in effect, up to this day. No other religion had such an extremely precise way of copying their holy texts. This shows the enormous respect that the Jewish people have for the sacred text, and this is the reason that the text is handed down through the millennia with an extreme grade of accuracy.
Thanks to this, we know that the book of Esther has only 12,111 letters. Not more, not less, but exactly 12,111 letters. Actually, the words “book of Esther”, is not correct. The Jews hold on to their ancient custom, and read on Purim, the day these events are being recalled an celebrated, from a scroll, and not from a book.

And now the code. It just happens to be so that the word “esther” pops up in the Torah (the Torah is the first five books of the Tanach; Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy, that is the most holy part of the Jewish Bible) only once, and that is in Genesis 4:14.
Now, if in that selfsame verse where that word “esther” appears, you take the first regular mem (not a mem at the end of a word, which has a different form) and from there you skip 12,111 letters, then you get a gimel, a G. Skip from there another 12,111 letters, and a lamed (L) will appear. Another 12,111 letters further a tav (T) will appear, and that makes together M-G-L-T, which is the Hebrew word “megilat”. “Megilah” means “scroll”, and “megilat” means “scroll of”.
The scroll with the book of Esther on it is called “megilat Esther”, which means “the scroll of Esther”, or “Esther scroll”. So the only place in the Torah where the word “esther” appears, there is coded with a skip of 12,111, the amount of letters in the book of Esther, the word “scroll”, which together makes “Esther scroll”.

Isn't that amazing?

And there is more to this story. But for that some more background information is needed.

The villain of the Esther story is the evil Haman. He was a descendant of Agag, the king of the Amelekites: “After these things King Ahasverus promoted Haman the Agagite, the son of Hammedatha” Esther 3:1

Agag was, as explained before, the king of the Amalekites: “And he took Agag the king of the Amal′ekites alive” 1 Sam 15:8. That king Agag of Amalek, is the only Amalakite king we know by name. So we know only one name of the Amalakite kings; Agag.

The Amelekites were an unpleasant people, with which the Jews had a difficult relationship. When the Jews went out of Egypt, Amalek attacked the Jews: “Then came Am′alek and fought with Israel at Reph′idim. 9 And Moses said to Joshua, “Choose for us men, and go out, fight with Am′alek; tomorrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in my hand.” 10 So Joshua did as Moses told him, and fought with Am′alek; and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. 11 Whenever Moses held up his hand, Israel prevailed; and whenever he lowered his hand, Am′alek prevailed. 12 But Moses’ hands grew weary; so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat upon it, and Aaron and Hur held up his hands, one on one side, and the other on the other side; so his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. 13 And Joshua mowed down Am′alek and his people with the edge of the sword.

14 And the Lord said to Moses, “Write this as a memorial in a book and recite it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the remembrance of Am′alek from under heaven.” 15 And Moses built an altar and called the name of it, The Lord is my banner, 16 saying, “A hand upon the banner of the Lord! The Lord will have war with Am′alek from generation to generation.”

So the Jews have a holy war with Amalek, to wipe them all out: “Therefore when the Lord your God has given you rest from all your enemies round about, in the land which the Lord your God gives you for an inheritance to possess, you shall blot out the remembrance of Am′alek from under heaven; do not forget”

Deut 25:19.

So the Jews have the holy obligation to wipe out Amalek, and Amalek is on an unholy trip to wipe out the Jews.

So there is a certain tension between the Jews and Amalek, and the story of the book Esther is just another episode in the war between Israel and Amalek.

We found “megilat Esther” encoded in the book of Genesis. Now the fact of the matter is that in Genesis the name “Amalek” appears three times. First in Genesis 14:7; “and they conquered the whole territory of the Amalekites”.

Amelek is mentioned further in Gen 36, verses 12 and 16. “Amalek” is written with ayin - mem - lamed - koef, A-M-L-K. Now if we jump from the first time “Amalek” appears in Gen 14, from the first letter ayin of “Amalek”, and we skip 12,111 letters, then we get a mem. Skip another 12,111 letters, and we get a lamed. Skip another 12,111 letters, and we get a koef, making together the name “Amalek”. So from the first letter of the first time Amalek is written in Genesis, the name Amalek is encoded with a skip of 12,111, the amount of letters of the book Esther. And the last koef of the encoded name Amalek, is the same koef which is the last letter of the second time that the name Amalek appears in Genesis, in chapter 36 vers 12.

Isn't that amazing?

And there is the third time that Amalek is written in Genesis, in chapter 36 vers 16. And there it doesn't just say “Amalek”, it says “aluf Amalek”, that means “chief Amalek”. And we know the name of only one king of Amalek, and that is Agag.

Now the word “chief”, “aluf”, is written with aleph, lamed, waav, phei. And if we jump from that first alef 12,111 letters, we get a gimel. Skip another 12,111 letters, and we get another gimel, making “A-G-G”: Agag.

Isn't that amazing?


Now we are anyway talking about the book of Esther, we read there that Haman, the evil one who wanted to murder all the Jews, was defeated, and his ten sons were killed: "5 The Jews struck down all their enemies with the sword, killing and destroying them, and they did what they pleased to those who hated them. 6 In the citadel of Susa, the Jews killed and destroyed five hundred men. 7 They also killed Parshandatha, Dalphon, Aspatha, 8 Poratha, Adalia, Aridatha, 9 Parmashta, Arisai, Aridai and Vaizatha, 10 the ten sons of Haman son of Hammedatha, the enemy of the Jews."

Esther 9.


And then there came a curious request of queen Esther. The king allowed her to make a wish: "The king said to Queen Esther, “In the citadel of Susa the Jews have killed five hundred people and also the ten sons of Haman. What have they done in the rest of the king’s provinces? Now what is your petition? It shall be granted you. And what further is your request? It shall be fulfilled.” 13 Esther said, “If it pleases the king, let the Jews who are in Susha be allowed tomorrow also to do according to this day’s edict, and let the ten sons of Haman be hanged on the gallows.”" Ibid

So the dead sons of Haman were hanged on the gallows. What was the use of that? They were dead already, they couldn't make them more dead than dead. But anyway, there they were, hanging, and the Jews were saved from the mass murder that Haman had in mind for them.

This fortunate turn of events is being celebrated every year with the purim feast, as prescribed in the book of Esther: "Mordecai recorded these things, and sent letters to all the Jews who were in all the provinces of King Ahasuerus, both near and far, 21 enjoining them that they should keep the fourteenth day of the month Adar and also the fifteenth day of the same month, year by year, 22 as the days on which the Jews gained relief from their enemies, and as the month that had been turned for them from sorrow into gladness and from mourning into a holiday; that they should make them days of feasting and gladness, days for sending gifts of food to one another and presents to the poor. 23 So the Jews adopted as a custom what they had begun to do, as Mordecai had written to them." Ibid


The names of the ten sons of the evil Haman who were hanged, are mentioned in the Esther scroll: 6 In the citadel of Susa the Jews killed and destroyed five hundred people. 7 They killed Parshandatha, Dalphon, Aspatha, 8 Poratha, Adalia, Aridatha, 9 Parmashta, Arisai, Aridai, Vaizatha, 10 the ten sons of Haman” Ibid

In the Esther scroll these ten names of the sons of Haman, are written one underneath the other, on the right side, and on the left side is written “and”, see here:

http://s208662543.websitehome.co.uk/hamans%2010%20sons.jpg

What we notice here, is that three letters are written smaller than the rest. This is done for thousands of years, and nobody knows why. We see that in the first name, the one but last letter, a tav, is smaller than the rest. In the seventh name we see that the fourth letter, (from the right) a shin, is written small, And in the last name, the third letter, a zayin, is written small.

Also we notice, that the first letter of the last name, a waav, is written bigger than usual.
Like I said, why that is is not known, it is just a matter of tradition, like “That's the way we do it, and that's it”.

The interesting part is, that every Hebrew letter has a numerical value. For instance, that small tav has a value of 400, the small shin a value of 300, and the small zayin a value of 7, making together 707.

And there is the big waav, with a numerical value of 6.
These numbers can be read as a date. The 707 pointing to years, the big waav pointing to the sixth millennium in which we live right now, giving us the year 5707. In the Christian counting of the years that year would start in 1946. And it just happened to be so, that in that year were the Neurenberger trials of nazi war criminals. Twelve of them were convicted to death by hanging. One they didn't have. Another one, Goering, in the night before his hanging, he swallowed a poison capsule, and he escaped the gallows. So on the date of 21 Tishrei 5707, ten nazi war criminals, Jew-murderers, were hanged.
When Julius Streicher was led upon the scaffold, he said: “Now I'm going to God!”

And Newsweek magazine of 28 Okt 1946 said http://archive.is/Q6QTg that just before the trapdoor to eternity opened up underneath his feet, he called out: “Purim fest 1946!”

Isn't that interesting?

RBBI
July 20th, 2016, 02:39 PM
It's all amazing and indisputable truth of the validity of the G-d of Israel. Would you consider posting this on another forum, namely City-Data Christianity forum? Thanks...

MichaelCadry
July 21st, 2016, 03:16 AM
Bs"d



The first word in the Torah is "bereshiet", that means: "in the beginning". When we from the T of bereshiet skip 49 letters, and take the 50th one, then we get a Wav, (O), another 50 letters further we get a R, and again 50 letters further a H, spelling out "TORaH", the Hebrew word: Torah.

The same thing we see in the second book of the Torah, Exodus. If you start counting from the first Tav (T) in the first sentence of that book, and keep on skipping 49 letters, you again get "Torah".

In the third book of the Torah, Leviticus, if you there take the first Yot, "Y", and then keep on skipping 7 letters, you get Y-H-W-H.

The fourth book of the Torah, Numbers, there in the first sentence of that book is a code which with a skip of 49 letters spells out "Torah", only now backwards: "HaROT".

The same thing we see in the fifth and last book of the Torah, Deuteronomy, where in verse 5 begins a code which spells with a skip of 48 the word Torah, also backwards.

The four encoded words "Torah" are "looking" toward the name of God Y-H-W-H, in the middle book.

These codes are in more detail explained here: http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/docs/1_faqs_torahcode.pdf

Those who want to check it out themselves can find here a Hebrew text of the Bible: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

The Hebrew letters can be found here: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebreeuws_alfabet


Another simple code is in the beginning of Genesis 2, starting with the last letter of chapter 1. There it says: "The sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." This is part of the inauguration of the Sabbath which is said by every religious Jew on Friday night.

If we take from that text the last letter of chapter one, a yot, and take from there the seventh letter, and from there the seventh letter, and from there the seventh letter, and from there the seventh letter, then it spells out "ISRAEL".

These are simple codes, which everybody can check out for himself.

And I don't think there be anybody saying this is just coincidence.

So the Torah codes are a fact.

The only question remaining now is: "How deep does the rabbit hole go?"

"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5


I don't buy it. Who has so much time on their hands as to pick what happens each 7th, 8th or 9th, 10th, 11th letter spells confusion. I'm not a believer. Thanks anyway.

Michael

Elia
July 21st, 2016, 07:36 AM
It's all amazing and indisputable truth of the validity of the G-d of Israel. Would you consider posting this on another forum, namely City-Data Christianity forum? Thanks...

Bs"d

I've put their two posts about the Bible codes, and they banned me and removed the posts.

They are afraid of the truth.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

Elia
July 21st, 2016, 07:38 AM
I don't buy it. Who has so much time on their hands as to pick what happens each 7th, 8th or 9th, 10th, 11th letter spells confusion. I'm not a believer. Thanks anyway.

Michael

Bs"d

For that we have computers nowadays.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

RBBI
July 21st, 2016, 08:49 AM
Was it recently? Because there's a thread about the codes on there right now. Maybe they have new mods since then?

Elia
July 21st, 2016, 09:54 AM
Was it recently? Because there's a thread about the codes on there right now. Maybe they have new mods since then?

Bs"d

Today.

RBBI
July 21st, 2016, 10:02 AM
They banned you TODAY??? Unreal.

nikolai_42
July 21st, 2016, 10:05 AM
Bs"d

Now you're talking!

I think that is mightily interesting. Can you give me some of those codes?

How about these :

Assassinations foretold in Moby Dick! (http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html)

nikolai_42
July 21st, 2016, 10:13 AM
How about these :

Assassinations foretold in Moby Dick! (http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html)

And a comparison of specific ELS codes in War & Peace with their biblical counterparts :

Equidistant Letter Sequences in Tolstoy's "War and Peace" (http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/WNP/main_en.html)

Elia
July 21st, 2016, 10:17 AM
They banned you TODAY??? Unreal.

Bs"d

After opening one topic over the Bible codes, and posting there 2 posts.

They're not serious over there.

Elia
July 21st, 2016, 10:22 AM
And a comparison of specific ELS codes in War & Peace with their biblical counterparts :

Equidistant Letter Sequences in Tolstoy's "War and Peace" (http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/WNP/main_en.html)

Bs"d

I show how with a skip of 49 the words "Torah" and Y-H-W-H are coded in the beginning of the first five books of Moses.

Anything like that in "War and Peace" or "Moby Dick"?

Those "codes" on those pages just don't come close.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

RBBI
July 21st, 2016, 10:34 AM
Bs"d

After opening one topic over the Bible codes, and posting there 2 posts.

They're not serious over there.

Is the material copyrighted? They are sensitive about that. I just noticed the thread is gone and I have a question in to the mods about it.

nikolai_42
July 21st, 2016, 11:25 AM
Bs"d

I show how with a skip of 49 the words "Torah" and Y-H-W-H are coded in the beginning of the first five books of Moses.

Anything like that in "War and Peace" or "Moby Dick"?

Those "codes" on those pages just don't come close.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever."
Micah 4:5

Okay...but what does that prove? There is clearly design here - but the codes in Moby Dick could be argued to show design as well. Beyond that, it's like saying Bach intended to communicate - through his music - in code, and placing meaningful emphasis upon that code. Not that there isn't justification for believing in the existence of some RICERCAR codes, but what does one do with those codes and why? What are the correct sequences to look at and how do you come to that conclusion? How does one determine if a certain ELS combination should be ignored? The subjectivity leaves one to one's own devices to determine what to look for. How, then, is this significantly different from divination? The meaning of the word "occult" is "hidden". Isn't that essentially what is in view here? Looking for answers in something hidden when God has given answers clearly?

Even if it is just used to "prove" Divine authorship of scripture, one still needs to differentiate between the codes found using the text of scripture and those found using Moby Dick, War and Peace etc... Those books may not have the words "Torah" or Y-H-W-H coded in them, but so what? Should we be surprised to find them coded in a book that explicitly uses those words in straightforward writing? The point there is that one proves the validity of any of these codes by outside confirmation. So, too, with scripture, would one need to found the codes themselves on something perspicuous. And since there is no clear guidance on what codes are good, it is the perspicuous that is what is confirmed - not the hidden.

So of what instructive benefit are the ELS codes?

Elia
July 28th, 2016, 01:17 AM
Okay...but what does that prove? There is clearly design here

Bs"d

Right, THERE IS CLEARLY DESIGN THERE. Nobody will say that happened by accident.

So the text of the Torah is not just another text like Moby Dick or War and Peace.


- but the codes in Moby Dick could be argued to show design as well.

Except that nobody can show me a comparable code in Moby Dick.


Beyond that, it's like saying Bach intended to communicate - through his music - in code, and placing meaningful emphasis upon that code. Not that there isn't justification for believing in the existence of some RICERCAR codes, but what does one do with those codes and why? What are the correct sequences to look at and how do you come to that conclusion? How does one determine if a certain ELS combination should be ignored?

To be able to say whether or not an ELS in Moby Dick is meaningful or not, you need to be a mathematician. Fact is, you can find an ELS anywhere. But to decide if they are meaningful or not, that is above my pay grade.
Except for some that scream out that they are not random occurrences. Like the coding of the word "Torah" in the beginning of the books of the Torah, with an interval of 50. When you see that, then you KNOW that that is meaningful, and not an accident.

Same goes for the Esther code. When you know that the book of Esther is the story of the battle of Israel with its arch-enemy Amalek, and you see that from the first time in Genesis that the name "Amalek" appears, there is with a skip of 12,111, that is the amount of letters in the book of Esther, the name of Amalek encoded, starting with the first "A" of the first "Amalek", and ending with the "K" of another Amalek in the book of Genesis, then you KNOW that is not a coincidence.
And when you then find with a skip of 12,111 from the first letter of "chief of Amalek" encoded the name of the king of Amalek, then the codes are firmly established. You don't have to be a mathematician to understand that.

Putting these codes in by hand is extremely difficult, because there are all kind of codes running through each other. Try to doctor the text to fit one code, and you'll mess up another code.
So the chance that these codes are made by human hands, is very small.


The subjectivity leaves one to one's own devices to determine what to look for. How, then, is this significantly different from divination? The meaning of the word "occult" is "hidden". Isn't that essentially what is in view here? Looking for answers in something hidden when God has given answers clearly?

Even if it is just used to "prove" Divine authorship of scripture, one still needs to differentiate between the codes found using the text of scripture and those found using Moby Dick, War and Peace etc... Those books may not have the words "Torah" or Y-H-W-H coded in them, but so what? Should we be surprised to find them coded in a book that explicitly uses those words in straightforward writing? The point there is that one proves the validity of any of these codes by outside confirmation. So, too, with scripture, would one need to found the codes themselves on something perspicuous. And since there is no clear guidance on what codes are good, it is the perspicuous that is what is confirmed - not the hidden.

So of what instructive benefit are the ELS codes?

Nobody ever claimed that the ELS codes, found in Moby Dick are statistically significant.

The codes in the Torah, are highly statistically significant. So significant that a paper about them was published in the peer reviewed paper "Statistical Science". And they only published that after brooding on it for 6 years, and calling in the two greatest names in the world in statistics to look it over, and after not having been able to find any mistake in it, it was published.

After that more peer reviewed articles have published on it, and like the mathematician and professional code breaker Harold Gans says: "In 2006, at the 18th International Pattern Recognition Conference, which took place in Hong Kong, there were six papers published in support of the Torah codes. All of these papers were subject to peer review, which means that fellow scientists reviewed the papers and could note any flaw in the research or logic that they might find. Were they to find an uncorrectable flaw, the paper would be rejected.

One of the papers that I co-authored proved that the original paper describing the “Great Rabbis Experiment” was not a hoax, and that the experiment with the rabbis and the cities of their birth and death was valid. That paper referenced the critic's 1999 Statistical Science paper, so that the reviewers could easily refer to it. According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.

Unfortunately, most people don't know the critics have been disproven. When scientists come up to me and try to dispute the validity of the codes, I ask: “Can you find a fatal flaw?” They pause, and say: “No.”"

So the codes are a fact. That is the Bible codes, not the Moby Dick codes.

And that is God's signature in the Torah.

A proof of authenticity.


"You are the God who performs miracles; you display your power among the peoples."
Psalm 77:14

Crucible
July 28th, 2016, 02:17 AM
The Bible is the best education a person will ever receive- you can have all the knowledge in the world, but you really have no knowledge at all without God.