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Robert Pate
October 6th, 2015, 08:15 PM
Anything that opposes the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law is anti-Christ.

You cannot say that Jesus Christ only made a limited atonement and be a Christian. The statement is anti-Christ, simply because it is in opposition to the Gospel. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You cannot say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world and be a Christian, especially when there are numerous scriptures that say he did, such as 1 John 2:2. To say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world is anti-Christ because it is in opposition to the Gospel.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that Jesus Christ in our name and on our behalf, has fulfilled all of the righteous demands of God's Holy Law and in doing so has justified us, Romans 3:26.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

It was the work of Christ that saves us and justifies us. To oppose that, or to say that the work of Christ was not sufficient to save to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25, is anti-Christ. Organized religion and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are not compatible, never have been and never will be.

Organized religion is based upon law and works. Read the by laws of any organized church and you will see that the whole function of the church is law based. There are no laws for the Christian. Christians are called to live by faith and not by laws or rules, "The Just Shall Live By Faith". Organized religion keeps it members under the law so that it can keep a hold on their bank account.

Ktoyou
October 6th, 2015, 08:17 PM
how many times are you going to say the same thing?

Robert Pate
October 6th, 2015, 08:24 PM
how many times are you going to say the same thing?

I guess until you believe it.

Ktoyou
October 6th, 2015, 08:29 PM
I guess until you believe it.

In that case, you have no idea what I believe. My question to you is, 'Do you have a personality?'

Robert Pate
October 6th, 2015, 08:30 PM
In that case, you have no idea what I believe. My question to you is, 'Do you have a personality?'

Is this a contest?

Ktoyou
October 6th, 2015, 08:38 PM
I'm trying to get you to participate in more ways than stating your opinions.

Robert Pate
October 6th, 2015, 08:41 PM
I'm trying to get you to participate in more ways than stating your opinions.

I only state the opinions of the Bible. The Bible says that religion stinks.

RBBI
October 7th, 2015, 10:56 AM
In answer to the original question.....most of it is.....Peace

Robert Pate
October 7th, 2015, 06:13 PM
In answer to the original question.....most of it is.....Peace

We have peace with God because of Jesus Christ and the Gospel, Colossians 1:20.

RBBI
October 7th, 2015, 07:38 PM
We have peace with God because of Jesus Christ and the Gospel, Colossians 1:20.

Amen. HIS peace is the flesh no longer warring against the Spirit.

Buzzword
October 7th, 2015, 08:32 PM
how many times are you going to say the same thing?

This.

Organized religion is only inherently anti-Christ when it attempts to set up a power structure in God's name for the sole benefit of the few people in positions of authority within the organization, or attempts to sway secular government.

Thus the papal hierarchy of the Middle Ages, the "Moral Majority", the infliction of Sharia Law across the Arab world, and every American pastor who invokes the name of God when instructing his flock how to cast their votes (which breaks the third commandment, by the way).


The majority of churches, temples, synagogues, and mosques devote themselves to uplifting and bettering their communities, and can no more be condemned for their existence in that role than any Christian could be condemned for loving one's neighbor as oneself.

Bradley D
October 7th, 2015, 10:40 PM
The Christian is the church not the organization or the building.

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world" (James 1:27).


"...being a Christian can consist of two things alone, Prayer and righteous action among men." (Dietrich Bonhoeffer)

Ask Mr. Religion
October 8th, 2015, 12:10 AM
"...being a Christian can consist of two things alone, Prayer and righteous action among men." (Dietrich Bonhoeffer)

Bonhoeffer offered up wonderful challenges to Nazisim.

But, his neo-orthodoxy diluted (http://www.wayoflife.org/friday_church_news/12_32.php) him...

1. He denied the verbal-plenary inspiration of Scripture, believing that the Bible is only a “witness” to the Word of God and becomes the Word of God only when it “speaks” to an individual; otherwise, it was simply the word of man (Testimony to Freedom, pp. 9, 104; Sanctorum Communio, p. 161).

2. He denied the biblical God, believing that the concept of God as a “supreme Being, absolute in power and goodness,” is a “spurious conception of transcendence,” and that “God as a working hypothesis in morals, politics, and science ... should be dropped, or as far as possible eliminated” (Letters and Papers from Prison, S.C.M. Press edition, Great Britain: Fontana Books, 1953, pp. 122, 164, 360).

3. He questioned the Virgin Birth (Witness to Jesus Christ, p. 115).

4. He denied the deity of Christ, advocating that “Jesus Christ Today” is not a real person and being, but a “corporate presence” (Testimony to Freedom, pp. 75-76; Christ the Center, p. 58).

5. He denied the sinlessness of Christ's human nature and further questioned the sinlessness of His earthly behavior (Christ the Center, pp. 108-109).

6. He denied the physical resurrection of Christ, believing that the bodily resurrection is in “the realm of ambiguity,” and that it was one of the “mythological” elements of Christianity that “must be interpreted in such a way as not to make religion a pre-condition of faith.” He also believed that such things as miracles and the ascension of Christ are “mythological conceptions” (Christ the Center, p. 112; Letters and Papers from Prison, S.C.M. Press edition, Great Britain: Fontana Books, 1953, pp. 93-94, 110).

7. He believed that Christ is not the only way to God (Testimony to Freedom, pp. 55-56).

8. He was an evolutionist (No Rusty Swords, p. 143) and believed that the book of Genesis is scientifically naive and full of myths (Creation and Fall: A Theological Interpretation of Genesis 1-3).

9. He adhered to neo-orthodox theology and terminology concerning salvation (Testimony to Freedom, p. 130), was a sacramentalist (Life Together, p. 122; The Way to Freedom, pp. 115, 153), believed in regenerational infant baptism (Letters and Papers from Prison, Macmillan, pp. 142-143) as well as adult baptismal regeneration (The Way to Freedom, p. 151), equated church membership with salvation (The Way to Freedom, p. 93), and denied a personal/individualistic salvation (Letters and Papers from Prison, Macmillan, p. 156).


AMR

Totton Linnet
October 8th, 2015, 02:56 AM
how many times are you going to say the same thing?

Pate's anti Calvinism has made a puppet out of him.

Robert Pate
October 8th, 2015, 07:31 AM
Pate's anti Calvinism has made a puppet out of him.


You have it backwards.

Its Calvinism that makes robots and puppets out of people.

I am God's free man. I can think and make my own decisions as I so please.

I have NOT been programed by the devil to believe lies and heresies.

Ktoyou
October 8th, 2015, 09:02 AM
I only state the opinions of the Bible. The Bible says that religion stinks.

In that case, you do not participate as a full member who is more than a Dictaphone. We also have personalities, we share ourselves, as well as our words. People interact on forums, not speak from a distance, as if one is no more than a message sender.

You have said hundreds of times, religion stinks, the Bible tells me so. We all get it. The question is, who are you, as a person, and how does one come to know you, to like or dislike you?

Where is your human side, I assume you are a human being and not a text transcription machine?

Do you have problems relating to people and feel a need to hide behind your words? Answering would be a place to start.

Ktoyou
October 8th, 2015, 09:11 AM
This.

Organized religion is only inherently anti-Christ when it attempts to set up a power structure in God's name for the sole benefit of the few people in positions of authority within the organization, or attempts to sway secular government.

Thus the papal hierarchy of the Middle Ages, the "Moral Majority", the infliction of Sharia Law across the Arab world, and every American pastor who invokes the name of God when instructing his flock how to cast their votes (which breaks the third commandment, by the way).


The majority of churches, temples, synagogues, and mosques devote themselves to uplifting and bettering their communities, and can no more be condemned for their existence in that role than any Christian could be condemned for loving one's neighbor as oneself.

Lots of information, sure. You also seem not to grasp what I am suggesting?

I am suggesting not all posts must be limited to a heady information exchange, or, in some cases, a monologue, which is typically what we have been receiving from Robert Pate for some years now.

Jamie Gigliotti
October 8th, 2015, 10:41 AM
Lots of information, sure. You also seem not to grasp what I am suggesting?

I am suggesting not all posts must be limited to a heady information exchange, or, in some cases, a monologue, which is typically what we have been receiving from Robert Pate for some years now.
Show him the way, transparency invites transparency.

Jamie Gigliotti
October 8th, 2015, 10:43 AM
Anything that opposes the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law is anti-Christ.

You cannot say that Jesus Christ only made a limited atonement and be a Christian. The statement is anti-Christ, simply because it is in opposition to the Gospel. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You cannot say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world and be a Christian, especially when there are numerous scriptures that say he did, such as 1 John 2:2. To say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world is anti-Christ because it is in opposition to the Gospel.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that Jesus Christ in our name and on our behalf, has fulfilled all of the righteous demands of God's Holy Law and in doing so has justified us, Romans 3:26.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

It was the work of Christ that saves us and justifies us. To oppose that, or to say that the work of Christ was not sufficient to save to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25, is anti-Christ. Organized religion and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are not compatible, never have been and never will be.

Organized religion is based upon law and works. Read the by laws of any organized church and you will see that the whole function of the church is law based. There are no laws for the Christian. Christians are called to live by faith and not by laws or rules, "The Just Shall Live By Faith". Organized religion keeps it members under the law so that it can keep a hold on their bank account.

God uses broken churches to bring the lost to Him.

God desires us to do good through him, which is Him in us.

Robert Pate
October 8th, 2015, 04:45 PM
In that case, you do not participate as a full member who is more than a Dictaphone. We also have personalities, we share ourselves, as well as our words. People interact on forums, not speak from a distance, as if one is no more than a message sender.

You have said hundreds of times, religion stinks, the Bible tells me so. We all get it. The question is, who are you, as a person, and how does one come to know you, to like or dislike you?

Where is your human side, I assume you are a human being and not a text transcription machine?

Do you have problems relating to people and feel a need to hide behind your words? Answering would be a place to start.


I bet that you are on facebook where everybody reveals their personal lives for others to read.

My motto is the less that you know about me the better.

I am just another sinner saved by grace. That is all that you need to know.

I think that you are probably a gossip hound.

Robert Pate
October 8th, 2015, 04:48 PM
God uses broken churches to bring the lost to Him.

God desires us to do good through him, which is Him in us.

"A broken church" is an apostate church that is void of the Gospel.

No one can be saved in that church because there is no Gospel in that church.

Ktoyou
October 8th, 2015, 04:55 PM
I bet that you are on facebook where everybody reveals their personal lives for others to read.

My motto is the less that you know about me the better.

I am just another sinner saved by grace. That is all that you need to know.

I think that you are probably a gossip hound.
Not at all, but you seem to equivocate having a personality with being too revealing
:nono: Never had one. My kids had My space and Face book, I think

Jamie Gigliotti
October 9th, 2015, 05:52 AM
"A broken church" is an apostate church that is void of the Gospel.

No one can be saved in that church because there is no Gospel in that church.

If they are all apostate then why don't you start one that isn't? We are commanded to meet together, to encourage one another. Any time followers of Christ meet together at an organized time and location, it could be considered organized religion.

meshak
October 9th, 2015, 06:11 AM
If they are all apostate then why don't you start one that isn't? We are commanded to meet together, to encourage one another. Any time followers of Christ meet together at an organized time and location, it could be considered organized religion.

At beginning of Christianity, they needed churches to educate His followers.

Now we have the Bible with first hand knowledge. We can have personal relationship with God and Jesus.

We can learn from Jesus directly how to love God and love one another.

We don't need secondhand knowledge from corrupt leaders.

Look at us, fighting about man-made doctrines using them to allure members.

What is going on in the churches is not of God.

Peace in Christ.

Jamie Gigliotti
October 9th, 2015, 06:49 AM
At beginning of Christianity, they needed churches to educate His followers.

Now we have the Bible with first hand knowledge. We can have personal relationship with God and Jesus.

We can learn from Jesus directly how to love God and love one another.

We don't need secondhand knowledge from corrupt leaders.

Look at us, fighting about man-made doctrines using them to allure members.

What is going on in the churches is not of God.

Peace in Christ.
There are places of worship where God is "worshipped in Spirit and in truth". God desires that. Be the light, don't run from darkness.

Jamie Gigliotti
October 9th, 2015, 07:00 AM
"And let us consider how to stir one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encourage one another, and all the more as you see the day drawing near." Hebrews 10:24-25

meshak
October 9th, 2015, 07:07 AM
There are places of worship where God is "worshipped in Spirit and in truth". God desires that. Be the light, don't run from darkness.

That's your church and so says the rest of denominations.

I have been reading your posts and I don't see much of difference over all.

Jamie Gigliotti
October 9th, 2015, 08:21 AM
That's your church and so says the rest of denominations.

I have been reading your posts and I don't see much of difference over all.

What do you have against me? And how do you want to help me grow in my faith?

Robert Pate
October 9th, 2015, 08:21 AM
If they are all apostate then why don't you start one that isn't? We are commanded to meet together, to encourage one another. Any time followers of Christ meet together at an organized time and location, it could be considered organized religion.

In the early church they met in each others homes.

No fancy building or paid staff.

Jamie Gigliotti
October 9th, 2015, 08:25 AM
In the early church they met in each others homes.

No fancy building or paid staff.

And that is a great way to connect with the body of Christ. That is small scale organization for Christ.

Robert Pate
October 9th, 2015, 08:33 AM
And that is a great way to connect with the body of Christ. That is small scale organization for Christ.

That is the way that it should be.

Unfortunately, many want a big glass church with a huge paid staff.

Jamie Gigliotti
October 9th, 2015, 08:38 AM
That is the way that it should be.

Unfotunately, many want a big glass church with a huge paid staff.

And some just want to be where they feel convicted by God to serve Him.

PureX
October 9th, 2015, 08:42 AM
People organizing themselves around a religious Christian tradition/belief is not inherently anti-Christian. Though such organizations can clearly become that way when, as all human organizations will tend to do, they seek to maintain their own coherence more stridently than they seek to express the love of Christ. And sadly, that does happen all too often.

So to answer the thread's question: no, organized religion is not innately antithetical to Christ, but it does often become antithetical to Christ.

Robert Pate
October 9th, 2015, 08:55 AM
People organizing themselves around a religious Christian tradition/belief is not inherently anti-Christian. Though such organizations can clearly become that way when, as all human organizations will tend to do, they seek to maintain their own coherence more stridently than they seek to express the love of Christ. And sadly, that does happen all too often.

So to answer the thread's question: no, organized religion is not innately antithetical to Christ, but it does often become antithetical to Christ.


Where there is no Gospel, I mean the one that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. There is no Holy Spirit. Where there is no Holy Spirit there is no church. Its a fraud.

PureX
October 9th, 2015, 09:23 AM
Where there is no Gospel, I mean the one that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. There is no Holy Spirit. Where there is no Holy Spirit there is no church. Its a fraud.You have a tendency to come up with good thread topics and ideas regarding excessive religiosity. But unfortunately, you then immediately contradict your own proposition by espousing that which you had just previously disparaged.

You claim that Christian religiosity is the anti-Christ, and then you immediately launch into a series of proclamation based on your own excessive Christian religiosity. And you do this consistently. It is mystifying to me that you can be so blind to your own religiosity when you are quite insightful of it regarding others.

But then as my old Catholic Bible says: "… we are wonderfully and frightfully made".

Robert Pate
October 9th, 2015, 01:31 PM
You have a tendency to come up with good thread topics and ideas regarding excessive religiosity. But unfortunately, you then immediately contradict your own proposition by espousing that which you had just previously disparaged.

You claim that Christian religiosity is the anti-Christ, and then you immediately launch into a series of proclamation based on your own excessive Christian religiosity. And you do this consistently. It is mystifying to me that you can be so blind to your own religiosity when you are quite insightful of it regarding others.

But then as my old Catholic Bible says: "… we are wonderfully and frightfully made".


There is no religion in the Gospel that justifies the ungodly Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Religion is about what people do. The Gospel is about what God has done in Jesus Christ. Big, big difference.

I am not religious. Where did you get that idea?

HisServant
October 9th, 2015, 01:39 PM
Anything that opposes the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law is anti-Christ.

You cannot say that Jesus Christ only made a limited atonement and be a Christian. The statement is anti-Christ, simply because it is in opposition to the Gospel. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You cannot say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world and be a Christian, especially when there are numerous scriptures that say he did, such as 1 John 2:2. To say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world is anti-Christ because it is in opposition to the Gospel.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that Jesus Christ in our name and on our behalf, has fulfilled all of the righteous demands of God's Holy Law and in doing so has justified us, Romans 3:26.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

It was the work of Christ that saves us and justifies us. To oppose that, or to say that the work of Christ was not sufficient to save to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25, is anti-Christ. Organized religion and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are not compatible, never have been and never will be.

Organized religion is based upon law and works. Read the by laws of any organized church and you will see that the whole function of the church is law based. There are no laws for the Christian. Christians are called to live by faith and not by laws or rules, "The Just Shall Live By Faith". Organized religion keeps it members under the law so that it can keep a hold on their bank account.

You seem to missing parts of scripture when you post things like this.

For example, you seem to have totally forgotten about the entire 12th chapter of Romans.

Robert Pate
October 9th, 2015, 01:43 PM
You seem to missing parts of scripture when you post things like this.

For example, you seem to have totally forgotten about the entire 12th chapter of Romans.

Romans 12 is about the Christian life.

We are not saved by our Christian lives.

PureX
October 9th, 2015, 01:47 PM
There is no religion in the Gospel that justifies the ungodly Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Religion is about what people do. The Gospel is about what God has done in Jesus Christ. Big, big difference.

I am not religious. Where did you get that idea?I get it from the fact that immediately after you make such a statement, you launch into a litany of religious proclamations based on your personal hyper-legalistic interpretation of religious scripture. You are just as dogmatic, legalistic, and "religious" as any religionists I've encountered.

HisServant
October 9th, 2015, 01:54 PM
Romans 12 is about the Christian life.

We are not saved by our Christian lives.

But it also tells you how to treat others and how you are to act yourself.

Are you at peace with yourself and all men?... it doesn't seem that way, as you seem to have an addiction to keep posting here and also seem to crave attention by posting the same topics over and over again.

Yet everyone here knows you do not have the gift of teaching and all you do is expose your theology and yourself to ridicule.

You know what scripture says about the fool.... you should look in the mirror.

I do agree with some of your assessment about organized religion, but the foolish way you communicate does nothing for your cause.

Ktoyou
October 9th, 2015, 02:03 PM
My motto is the less that you know about me the better.



this tell me you feel there is something to hide about you, or who you think you are. My thinking is you are another id, who lacks social skills and prefers the anonymity of the internet.

I am a people person. For me, being with people is best, and a distant second is talking on the phone, Those who believe they can maintain a deep friendship with me without any time being in person are not being realistic, I once knew someone who believed otherwise, yet I saw this as delusional, as more is better known by nonverbal cues than anything I say, unless it is limited to transmission of information, dictating, or placing an order, not very personal.

Writing is the last and least preferable way I like to communicate.

Now this tells you more about who I am than I will ever know about you.

NickCharles
October 9th, 2015, 02:05 PM
Anything that opposes the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law is anti-Christ.



You cannot say that Jesus Christ only made a limited atonement and be a Christian. The statement is anti-Christ, simply because it is in opposition to the Gospel. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.



You cannot say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world and be a Christian, especially when there are numerous scriptures that say he did, such as 1 John 2:2. To say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world is anti-Christ because it is in opposition to the Gospel.



The Gospel is the "Good News" that Jesus Christ in our name and on our behalf, has fulfilled all of the righteous demands of God's Holy Law and in doing so has justified us, Romans 3:26.



The Gospel is the "Good News" that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.



It was the work of Christ that saves us and justifies us. To oppose that, or to say that the work of Christ was not sufficient to save to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25, is anti-Christ. Organized religion and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are not compatible, never have been and never will be.



Organized religion is based upon law and works. Read the by laws of any organized church and you will see that the whole function of the church is law based. There are no laws for the Christian. Christians are called to live by faith and not by laws or rules, "The Just Shall Live By Faith". Organized religion keeps it members under the law so that it can keep a hold on their bank account.


All these years later and you are still a one trick pony.

HisServant
October 9th, 2015, 02:06 PM
this tell me you feel there is something to hide about you, or who you think you are. My thinking is you are another id, who lacks social skills and prefers the anonymity of the internet.

I am a people person. For me, being with people is best, and a distant second is talking on the phone, Those who believe they can maintain a deep friendship with me without any time being in person are not being realistic, I once knew someone who believed otherwise, yet I saw this as delusional, as more is better known by nonverbal cues than anything I say, unless it is limited to transmission of information, dictating, or placing an order, not very personal.

Writing is the last and least preferable way I like to communicate.

Now this tells you more about who I am than I will ever know about you.

He is ashamed of the gospel.... anti-christ behavior.

meshak
October 9th, 2015, 03:52 PM
What do you have against me? And how do you want to help me grow in my faith?

Jesus is the Teacher, not me, friend.

Jesus says so many things against what is going in the Christian communities, in over all.

Jesus is not revealing in Christian world.

IOW, we are misrepresenting Him to the world as a whole.

Robert Pate
October 9th, 2015, 04:05 PM
All these years later and you are still a one trick pony.

No, one truthful pony. No tricks, just truth.

Robert Pate
October 9th, 2015, 04:10 PM
this tell me you feel there is something to hide about you, or who you think you are. My thinking is you are another id, who lacks social skills and prefers the anonymity of the internet.

I am a people person. For me, being with people is best, and a distant second is talking on the phone, Those who believe they can maintain a deep friendship with me without any time being in person are not being realistic, I once knew someone who believed otherwise, yet I saw this as delusional, as more is better known by nonverbal cues than anything I say, unless it is limited to transmission of information, dictating, or placing an order, not very personal.

Writing is the last and least preferable way I like to communicate.

Now this tells you more about who I am than I will ever know about you.

My basis for fellowship on the Forum is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and justification by faith apart from works.

Relationships are spiritual. This is why I don't have one with you.

NickCharles
October 9th, 2015, 04:11 PM
No, one truthful pony. No tricks, just truth.


You are entitled to your opinion, I suppose.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 9th, 2015, 04:40 PM
At beginning of Christianity, they needed churches to educate His followers.

Now we have the Bible with first hand knowledge. We can have personal relationship with God and Jesus.

We can learn from Jesus directly how to love God and love one another.

We don't need secondhand knowledge from corrupt leaders.

Look at us, fighting about man-made doctrines using them to allure members.

What is going on in the churches is not of God.

Peace in Christ.

Here's what you believe:
1) The Apostle Paul is an anti-Christ.
2) You only trust in the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and reject the rest.
3) You hate the U.S. military.
4) You despise Trinatarians.
5) You don't know if your saved.
6) You think you might be able to earn your way to Heaven.

That's your religion.

Bradley D
October 9th, 2015, 08:58 PM
Bonhoeffer offered up wonderful challenges to Nazisim.

But, his neo-orthodoxy diluted (http://www.wayoflife.org/friday_church_news/12_32.php) him...

1. He denied the verbal-plenary inspiration of Scripture, believing that the Bible is only a “witness” to the Word of God and becomes the Word of God only when it “speaks” to an individual; otherwise, it was simply the word of man (Testimony to Freedom, pp. 9, 104; Sanctorum Communio, p. 161).

2. He denied the biblical God, believing that the concept of God as a “supreme Being, absolute in power and goodness,” is a “spurious conception of transcendence,” and that “God as a working hypothesis in morals, politics, and science ... should be dropped, or as far as possible eliminated” (Letters and Papers from Prison, S.C.M. Press edition, Great Britain: Fontana Books, 1953, pp. 122, 164, 360).

3. He questioned the Virgin Birth (Witness to Jesus Christ, p. 115).

4. He denied the deity of Christ, advocating that “Jesus Christ Today” is not a real person and being, but a “corporate presence” (Testimony to Freedom, pp. 75-76; Christ the Center, p. 58).

5. He denied the sinlessness of Christ's human nature and further questioned the sinlessness of His earthly behavior (Christ the Center, pp. 108-109).

6. He denied the physical resurrection of Christ, believing that the bodily resurrection is in “the realm of ambiguity,” and that it was one of the “mythological” elements of Christianity that “must be interpreted in such a way as not to make religion a pre-condition of faith.” He also believed that such things as miracles and the ascension of Christ are “mythological conceptions” (Christ the Center, p. 112; Letters and Papers from Prison, S.C.M. Press edition, Great Britain: Fontana Books, 1953, pp. 93-94, 110).

7. He believed that Christ is not the only way to God (Testimony to Freedom, pp. 55-56).

8. He was an evolutionist (No Rusty Swords, p. 143) and believed that the book of Genesis is scientifically naive and full of myths (Creation and Fall: A Theological Interpretation of Genesis 1-3).

9. He adhered to neo-orthodox theology and terminology concerning salvation (Testimony to Freedom, p. 130), was a sacramentalist (Life Together, p. 122; The Way to Freedom, pp. 115, 153), believed in regenerational infant baptism (Letters and Papers from Prison, Macmillan, pp. 142-143) as well as adult baptismal regeneration (The Way to Freedom, p. 151), equated church membership with salvation (The Way to Freedom, p. 93), and denied a personal/individualistic salvation (Letters and Papers from Prison, Macmillan, p. 156).


AMR

Bonhoeffer was trying to incorporate God into the large secularism he saw taking place in the western nations. Which I believe was wrong. Scripture tells me not to love the world. I do not agree with all theologians, but now and then they write something worthwhile.

I do admire his stand against the Nazis of WWII. I read that Bonhoeffer was on his knees praying to God prior to being hung on the gallows by the Nazis.

Robert Pate
October 10th, 2015, 03:45 PM
Bonhoeffer was trying to incorporate God into the large secularism he saw taking place in the western nations. Which I believe was wrong. Scripture tells me not to love the world. I do not agree with all theologians, but now and then they write something worthwhile.

I do admire his stand against the Nazis of WWII. I read that Bonhoeffer was on his knees praying to God prior to being hung on the gallows by the Nazis.

Mr Religion has already condemned him to hell.

Cruciform
October 10th, 2015, 08:39 PM
Is Organized Religion Anti-Christ?
No doubt Pate much prefers DISorganized religions, such as Pate-ism.

Robert Pate
October 10th, 2015, 08:44 PM
No doubt Pate much prefers DISorganized religions, such as Pate-ism.

My religion is "The Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ".

It is the religion that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Cruciform
October 10th, 2015, 09:04 PM
My religion is "The Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ."
Tellingly, the quotation marks are accurate.

Robert Pate
October 10th, 2015, 09:08 PM
Tellingly, the quotation marks are accurate.

Without "The Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ" you are doomed.

Cruciform
October 10th, 2015, 09:41 PM
Without "The Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ" you are doomed.
I certainly agree---I simply deny that you actually have the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's that little word "historical" that trips you up.

Ask Mr. Religion
October 11th, 2015, 12:53 AM
Mr Religion has already condemned him to hell.

No, his condemnation rests with God, who has spoken perspicuously about the matter. If Bonheoffer went to his death believing what he has stated in print about Our Lord, there is little doubt of his final destination. One cannot claim to be Christian and deny the Trinity. "This is the catholic {universal} faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved." (see Athanasian Creed: http://www.reformed.org/documents/athanasian.html).

AMR

1Mind1Spirit
October 11th, 2015, 01:09 AM
No, his condemnation rests with God, who has spoken perspicuously about the matter. If Bonheoffer went to his death believing what he has stated in print about Our Lord, there is little doubt of his final destination. One cannot claim to be Christian and deny the Trinity. "This is the catholic {universal} faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved." (see Athanasian Creed: http://www.reformed.org/documents/athanasian.html).

AMR

Yer fulla hotair.

You have no clue, let alone having little doubt, about the guy's final destination.

Not only that but you better hope I'm right, as telling lies about having to believe in the Trinity makes you just as guilty as he was in preaching falseness.

Robert Pate
October 11th, 2015, 03:51 PM
No, his condemnation rests with God, who has spoken perspicuously about the matter. If Bonheoffer went to his death believing what he has stated in print about Our Lord, there is little doubt of his final destination. One cannot claim to be Christian and deny the Trinity. "This is the catholic {universal} faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved." (see Athanasian Creed: http://www.reformed.org/documents/athanasian.html).

AMR

If the man had faith in Christ he was saved, Romans 4:5.

Robert Pate
October 11th, 2015, 03:55 PM
I certainly agree---I simply deny that you actually have the historical Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's that little word "historical" that trips you up.


I have it and the Bible is full of it.

It is Historical because the Gospel is a one time past event in which Jesus reconciled the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Cruciform
October 11th, 2015, 09:51 PM
I have it...
You have your chosen recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect's truncated version of the gospel, but not the historical Christian Gospel.

meshak
October 12th, 2015, 06:34 AM
If the man had faith in Christ he was saved, Romans 4:5.

But that's not what you have been spread. You add your own condition to be saved by claiming you have to believe in the trinity to be saved.

Your preaching is half truth.

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 07:54 AM
But that's not what you have been spread. You add your own condition to be saved by claiming you have to believe in the trinity to be saved.

Your preaching is half truth.

I never said that. However, the Bible teaches a trinity, 1 John 5:7.

nikolai_42
October 12th, 2015, 08:09 AM
Anything that opposes the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law is anti-Christ.

You cannot say that Jesus Christ only made a limited atonement and be a Christian. The statement is anti-Christ, simply because it is in opposition to the Gospel. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You cannot say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world and be a Christian, especially when there are numerous scriptures that say he did, such as 1 John 2:2. To say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world is anti-Christ because it is in opposition to the Gospel.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that Jesus Christ in our name and on our behalf, has fulfilled all of the righteous demands of God's Holy Law and in doing so has justified us, Romans 3:26.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

It was the work of Christ that saves us and justifies us. To oppose that, or to say that the work of Christ was not sufficient to save to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25, is anti-Christ. Organized religion and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are not compatible, never have been and never will be.

Organized religion is based upon law and works. Read the by laws of any organized church and you will see that the whole function of the church is law based. There are no laws for the Christian. Christians are called to live by faith and not by laws or rules, "The Just Shall Live By Faith". Organized religion keeps it members under the law so that it can keep a hold on their bank account.

Robert,

Do you believe the Reformation was just one set of organized sects resisting one big organized sect (Rome)? Were men like Wycliffe, Knox, Huss, Zwingli, Luther and Calvin (...ouch...) etc... simply trying to enforce the dictates of one variation of organized religion?

jamie
October 12th, 2015, 08:34 AM
My basis for fellowship on the Forum is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and justification by faith apart from works.


Salvation is by grace but justification is based on what we say and do.


So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. (James 2:12 NKJV)

Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord. (1 Corinthians 15:58 NKJV)

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. (Matthew 16:27 NKJV)

jamie
October 12th, 2015, 08:38 AM
I never said that. However, the Bible teaches a trinity, 1 John 5:7.



No Syriac manuscript of any family — Peshito, Philoxenian, or Harklean — has the three witnesses; and their presence in the printed Syriac Gospels is due to translation from the Vulgate.

So too, the Coptic manuscripts — both Sahidic and Bohairic — have no trace of the disputed part, nor have the Ethiopic manuscripts which represent Greek influence through the medium of Coptic.

The Armenian manuscripts, which favour the reading of the Vulgate, are admitted to represent a Latin influence which dates from the twelfth century; early Armenian manuscripts are against the Latin reading.

Of the Itala or Old Latin manuscripts, only two have our present reading of the three witnesses: Codex Monacensis of the sixth or seventh century; and the Speculum, an eighth or ninth century manuscript which gives many quotations from the New Testament.

Even the Vulgate, in the majority of its earliest manuscripts, is without the passage in question. Witnesses to the canonicity are: the Bible of Theodulph (eighth century) in the National Library of Paris; Codex Cavensis (ninth century), the best representative of the Spanish type of text: Toletanus (tenth century); and the majority of Vulgate manuscripts after the twelfth century.

There was some dispute as to the canonicity of the three witnesses as early as the sixth century: for the preface to the Catholic Epistles in Codex Fuldensis (A.D. 541-546) complains about the omission of this passage from some of the Latin versions.

(newadvent.org/ Catholic Encycopedia/ Epistles of St. John)

meshak
October 12th, 2015, 11:55 AM
I never said that. However, the Bible teaches a trinity, 1 John 5:7.

That's your twisted reading of Jesus' word.

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 01:53 PM
Robert,

Do you believe the Reformation was just one set of organized sects resisting one big organized sect (Rome)? Were men like Wycliffe, Knox, Huss, Zwingli, Luther and Calvin (...ouch...) etc... simply trying to enforce the dictates of one variation of organized religion?

The Catholic church had a strangle hold on the people and they were squeezing them for all that it was worth.

You had to pay for everything.

The Gospel says we are justified by faith. Not by the Catholic church.

They simply got sick of the graft.

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 01:55 PM
That's your twisted reading of Jesus' word.

You are opposing the scripture.

Its as plain as your silly hat, 1 John 5:7.

nikolai_42
October 12th, 2015, 02:15 PM
The Catholic church had a strangle hold on the people and they were squeezing them for all that it was worth.

You had to pay for everything.

The Gospel says we are justified by faith. Not by the Catholic church.

They simply got sick of the graft.

It seems interesting to me that the one Reformer who is probably most known for his attack on indulgences (Luther) was also the least willing to leave the organized church he was in. And he was also the most reknowned preacher of Justification by Faith alone at the time. Calling organized sects (or denominations) anti-Christ is painting with an unnecessarily - and dangerously - broad brush.

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 02:32 PM
It seems interesting to me that the one Reformer who is probably most known for his attack on indulgences (Luther) was also the least willing to leave the organized church he was in. And he was also the most reknowned preacher of Justification by Faith alone at the time. Calling organized sects (or denominations) anti-Christ is painting with an unnecessarily - and dangerously - broad brush.

No, Luther had it right.

Anything that opposses the Gospel and justification by faith is anti-Christ.

We are justified by faith alone, because we are justified by Christ alone, Romans 3:26.

meshak
October 12th, 2015, 02:36 PM
You are opposing the scripture.

Its as plain as your silly hat, 1 John 5:7.

Repeating the perverted or out of context reasoning does not make it right.

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 02:38 PM
No Syriac manuscript of any family — Peshito, Philoxenian, or Harklean — has the three witnesses; and their presence in the printed Syriac Gospels is due to translation from the Vulgate.

So too, the Coptic manuscripts — both Sahidic and Bohairic — have no trace of the disputed part, nor have the Ethiopic manuscripts which represent Greek influence through the medium of Coptic.

The Armenian manuscripts, which favour the reading of the Vulgate, are admitted to represent a Latin influence which dates from the twelfth century; early Armenian manuscripts are against the Latin reading.

Of the Itala or Old Latin manuscripts, only two have our present reading of the three witnesses: Codex Monacensis of the sixth or seventh century; and the Speculum, an eighth or ninth century manuscript which gives many quotations from the New Testament.

Even the Vulgate, in the majority of its earliest manuscripts, is without the passage in question. Witnesses to the canonicity are: the Bible of Theodulph (eighth century) in the National Library of Paris; Codex Cavensis (ninth century), the best representative of the Spanish type of text: Toletanus (tenth century); and the majority of Vulgate manuscripts after the twelfth century.

There was some dispute as to the canonicity of the three witnesses as early as the sixth century: for the preface to the Catholic Epistles in Codex Fuldensis (A.D. 541-546) complains about the omission of this passage from some of the Latin versions.

(newadvent.org/ Catholic Encycopedia/ Epistles of St. John)


Throw your Catholic encyclopedia in the trash.

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 02:41 PM
Repeating the perverted or out of context reasoning does not make it right.


Some scriptures are just so plain that a small child can understand them, 1 John 5:7 is one of them.

It you can't believe that one, I doubt if you will believe any of them.

meshak
October 12th, 2015, 02:49 PM
Some scriptures are just so plain that a small child can understand them, 1 John 5:7 is one of them.

It you can't believe that one, I doubt if you will believe any of them.

Christians are Jesus' followers, right?

Where do you find Jesus says even once that "faith alone saves"?

Bright Raven
October 12th, 2015, 02:54 PM
Christians are Jesus' followers, right?

Where do you find Jesus says even once that "faith alone saves"?

You loose!

Luke 7:50 New King James Version (NKJV)

50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

Cruciform
October 12th, 2015, 03:32 PM
The Gospel says we are justified by faith. Not by the Catholic Church.
Merely a Straw Man Fallacy on your part, since we have never claimed that we are justified by the Catholic Church. Get your facts straight.

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 04:16 PM
Merely a Straw Man Fallacy on your part, since we have never claimed that we are justified by the Catholic Church. Get your facts straight.

Of course you believe that you are justified by the Catholic church.

Canon #9

"If anyone says that a sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema".

If it isn't by faith alone, then its by the Catholic church alone.

Ask Mr. Religion
October 12th, 2015, 04:26 PM
Canon #9

"If anyone says that a sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema".


It is something like this for the Romanist:

http://tinyurl.com/75glvdj

Which ultimately means:

20496

Sigh.

AMR

Cruciform
October 12th, 2015, 04:28 PM
Of course you believe that you are justified by the Catholic Church.

Canon #9 "If anyone says that a sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema".
This is a reference to Progressive Justification, which takes place over one's entire lifetime. Regarding Initial Justification, however, the Church teaches the following in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion...



If it isn't by faith alone, then its by the Catholic Church alone.
Non Sequitur Fallacy. Try again.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
October 12th, 2015, 04:32 PM
It is something like this for the Romanist:

http://tinyurl.com/75glvdj
All by the grace of God alone.


Which ultimately means:

20496
Straw Man Fallacy.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 04:35 PM
It is something like this for the Romanist:

http://tinyurl.com/75glvdj

Which ultimately means:

20496

Sigh.

AMR

Paul said, "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguild Eve through his subtility, so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY THAT IS IN CHRIST" 2 Corinthians 11:3.

Ask Mr. Religion
October 12th, 2015, 04:48 PM
This is a reference to Progressive Justification, which takes place over one's entire lifetime. Regarding Initial Justification, however, the Church teaches the following in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

[2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion...


A distinction without a difference when considering the meaning of the word "justification". Adding adjectives, "initial" or "progressive" to modify the word is a sure signal that something amiss is afoot. Rome is simply using flowery adjectives to deny one cannot lose one's re-birth (regeneration) in Christ.

Thanks be to us all that God is not double-minded. When He imputes the condignly meritorious righteousness of the active and passive obedience of Our Lord's works to those who call upon His name it is clear justification is a punctiliar declaration of God.

Would that Romanists and others aligned with them reject any notion that we have either congruent or condign merit. Christ’s obedience is perfect. His merit, His obedience, is active and suffering righteousness (i.e., His whole obedience) is imputed to us. The ground of our acceptance with God as righteousness is wholly outside of us.

Give praise that God rejects congruent merit and any notion that would imply God grades on a curve (http://tinyurl.com/75glvdj). Rather rejoice that it is our consolation that we may be assured that our righteousness does not depend upon our works, for if this were the case we should lose it thousands of times, but upon the sacrifice and merit of Christ alone.

AMR

Cruciform
October 12th, 2015, 04:59 PM
A distinction without a difference when considering the meaning of the word "justification". Adding adjectives, "initial" or "progressive" to modify the word is a sure signal that something amiss is afoot. Rome is simply using flowery adjectives to deny one cannot lose one's re-birth (regeneration) in Christ.
The entirely non-authoritative opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted.

For more info on the historic Catholic (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html) view of justification, see this (http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/justcath.htm) and this (http://www.integratedcatholiclife.org/2015/09/deacon-bickerstaff-are-you-saved/).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 09:06 PM
The entirely non-authoritative opinions of your preferred recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sect are noted.

For more info on the historic Catholic (http://scripturecatholic.com/the_church.html) view of justification, see this (http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/justcath.htm) and this (http://www.integratedcatholiclife.org/2015/09/deacon-bickerstaff-are-you-saved/).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Catholicism is the author of confusion.

Cruciform
October 13th, 2015, 02:43 PM
Catholicism is the author of confusion.
Already decisively answered (Post #83).

Robert Pate
October 13th, 2015, 02:48 PM
Already decisively answered (Post #83).


It is all very simple.

We are justified by faith alone, because we are justified by Christ alone.

We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus, Plus nothing. Jesus is the justifier, Romans 3:26.

Cruciform
October 13th, 2015, 02:59 PM
It is all very simple.We are justified by faith alone, because we are justified by Christ alone.We are justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus, Plus nothing.Jesus is the justifier, Romans 3:26.
Still Post #83.

Robert Pate
October 13th, 2015, 03:17 PM
Still Post #83.

You need to come to Christ as a repentant sinner so that Jesus can justify you.

Cruciform
October 13th, 2015, 03:19 PM
You need to come to Christ as a repentant sinner so that Jesus can justify you.
Post #83 stands exactly as given.

OCTOBER23
October 13th, 2015, 03:25 PM
I THINK THAT ROBERT PATE IS TRYING TO FIND HIS

AUNTIE'S CRISPER.

ps. I like My Coffee Crisper.

Robert Pate
October 13th, 2015, 03:32 PM
I THINK THAT ROBERT PATE IS TRYING TO FIND HIS

AUNTIE'S CRISPER.

ps. I like My Coffee Crisper.


You also are outside of the faith and are under the judgment of God.

jamie
October 13th, 2015, 04:11 PM
You also are outside of the faith and are under the judgment of God.


God doesn't judge, he has assigned judgment to the Son. The Son doesn't judge those outside of the faith. We do.

Robert Pate
October 13th, 2015, 05:21 PM
God doesn't judge, he has assigned judgment to the Son. The Son doesn't judge those outside of the faith. We do.

Revelation 20:11-15.

If you are not found to be "In Christ" you will perish.

To be found in Christ means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, plus nothing.

meshak
October 13th, 2015, 07:15 PM
Revelation 20:11-15.

If you are not found to be "In Christ" you will perish.

what makes you think October is not in Christ?

It is your judgment of him. It is not Jesus' judgment.

You are showing arrogance which is not of Christ..

jamie
October 13th, 2015, 09:14 PM
If you are not found to be "In Christ" you will perish.


Not at all, the Book of Life is opened to those resurrected. After salvation by grace they will be judged according to their works, same as us.

Robert Pate
October 14th, 2015, 04:49 PM
Not at all, the Book of Life is opened to those resurrected. After salvation by grace they will be judged according to their works, same as us.

John 3:16 says... "That whosoever that believes in Jesus will not perish."

Common sense should tell you that if you do not believe in Jesus you will perish.

Works are not going to save anyone.

Robert Pate
October 14th, 2015, 04:51 PM
what makes you think October is not in Christ?

It is your judgment of him. It is not Jesus' judgment.

You are showing arrogance which is not of Christ..


"Try the Spirits to see if they be of God" 1 John 4:1.

jamie
October 14th, 2015, 06:44 PM
John 3:16 says... "That whosoever that believes in Jesus will not perish."


The NT does not end at John 3:15, there's more. For example there is John 3:17.

Robert Pate
October 15th, 2015, 03:28 PM
The NT does not end at John 3:15, there's more. For example there is John 3:17.

There is no salvation for anyone that does not respond to the Gospel.

OCTOBER23
October 15th, 2015, 03:33 PM
ROBERT PATE' said to me,

You also are outside of the faith and are under the judgment of God.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ROBERT,

We are all under the JUDGEMENT of God and since, Judgement begins at the

House of God. And so you have CONFIRMED that I am part of the house of God.

THANKS

Robert Pate
October 15th, 2015, 03:37 PM
ROBERT PATE' said to me,

You also are outside of the faith and are under the judgment of God.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
ROBERT,

We are all under the JUDGEMENT of God and since, Judgement begins at the

House of God. And so you have CONFIRMED that I am part of the house of God.

THANKS

My judgment has already taken place in Jesus Christ, but yours is yet to come.

OCTOBER23
October 15th, 2015, 07:08 PM
ROBERT PATE'

Why do you think that your JUDGEMENT has already taken place ???

jamie
October 15th, 2015, 07:20 PM
There is no salvation for anyone that does not respond to the Gospel.


And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. (John 12:47-48 NKJV)

Robert Pate
October 15th, 2015, 07:30 PM
ROBERT PATE'

Why do you think that your JUDGEMENT has already taken place ???

Instead of being on this Forum you should be reading your Bible.

Galatians 2:20.

OCTOBER23
October 16th, 2015, 07:00 PM
Originally Posted by OCTOBER23 View Post
ROBERT PATE'

Why do you think that your JUDGEMENT has already taken place ???
Instead of being on this Forum you should be reading your Bible.

Galatians 2:20.

Galatians 2:20 (NKJV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
========================================

THERE IS NO MENTION OF JUDGEMENT IN YOUR REFERENCES !!!

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord,
that we should not be condemned with the world.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:

Robert Pate
October 17th, 2015, 07:19 AM
Originally Posted by OCTOBER23 View Post
ROBERT PATE'

Why do you think that your JUDGEMENT has already taken place ???
Instead of being on this Forum you should be reading your Bible.

Galatians 2:20.

Galatians 2:20 (NKJV)
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
========================================

THERE IS NO MENTION OF JUDGEMENT IN YOUR REFERENCES !!!

1 Corinthians 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord,
that we should not be condemned with the world.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God:



When Christ died the Christian died with him.

That was the Christians judgment. "We have been crucified with Christ" Galatians 2:20.

And now, there is no condemnation to those who are "In Christ", Romans 8:1.

To be "In Christ" means that you are trusting in his righteousness and in his atonement for your sins, Plus nothing. No religon.

Ben Masada
October 17th, 2015, 11:48 AM
No, anti-Christ is the religion that confesses to be against Christ. What is the meaning of the word "Christ?" "Christ" is originally from the Greek and it means the anointed one of the Lord aka the Messiah. Now, if you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His anointed one," aka Christ, the Messiah. As you can see, Theologically, Prophet Habakkuk was talking about God's People aka Israel as the anointed one of the Lord. Obviously, the Messiah cannot be an individual but Israel the People. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah cannot die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37)

In conclusion, if you read I John 2:18,19, the antichrists are supposed to rise from the ranks of Christianity itself. Evidence of the fact is, that Paul, the founder of Christianity has demonstrated to be the leader of all antichrists through the means of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

Robert Pate
October 17th, 2015, 12:48 PM
No, anti-Christ is the religion that confesses to be against Christ. What is the meaning of the word "Christ?" "Christ" is originally from the Greek and it means the anointed one of the Lord aka the Messiah. Now, if you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His anointed one," aka Christ, the Messiah. As you can see, Theologically, Prophet Habakkuk was talking about God's People aka Israel as the anointed one of the Lord. Obviously, the Messiah cannot be an individual but Israel the People. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah cannot die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37)

In conclusion, if you read I John 2:18,19, the antichrists are supposed to rise from the ranks of Christianity itself. Evidence of the fact is, that Paul, the founder of Christianity has demonstrated to be the leader of all antichrists through the means of the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

You are delusional.

Ben Masada
October 17th, 2015, 01:10 PM
You are delusional.

I don't think so. I speak the truth according to the Law and the Prophets; if you don't, it is because there is no light in what you say. (Isa. 8:20)

aikido7
October 17th, 2015, 01:11 PM
Anything that opposes the Gospel and justification by faith apart from the works of the law is anti-Christ.

You cannot say that Jesus Christ only made a limited atonement and be a Christian. The statement is anti-Christ, simply because it is in opposition to the Gospel. The Bible makes it clear that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You cannot say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world and be a Christian, especially when there are numerous scriptures that say he did, such as 1 John 2:2. To say that Jesus did not atone for all of the sins of the world is anti-Christ because it is in opposition to the Gospel.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that Jesus Christ in our name and on our behalf, has fulfilled all of the righteous demands of God's Holy Law and in doing so has justified us, Romans 3:26.

The Gospel is the "Good News" that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. "For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him" 2 Corinthians 5:21.

It was the work of Christ that saves us and justifies us. To oppose that, or to say that the work of Christ was not sufficient to save to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25, is anti-Christ. Organized religion and the Gospel of Jesus Christ are not compatible, never have been and never will be.

Organized religion is based upon law and works. Read the by laws of any organized church and you will see that the whole function of the church is law based. There are no laws for the Christian. Christians are called to live by faith and not by laws or rules, "The Just Shall Live By Faith". Organized religion keeps it members under the law so that it can keep a hold on their bank account.To my way of looking at Jesus in the New Testament as well as confronting many different types of other fellow believers' personal theologies, Jesus would have rejected what we call "Christianity," one based on a blood sacrifice and a view of Jesus as "divine."

His original message was to the House of Israel. He compared Gentiles to "dogs." He did not think much of their worship style.

It was only after he was crucified did his later followers and chroniclers wrapped him up in the ancient theologies of the day.

As far as the later "Last Supper," even a metaphoric statement of eating Jesus's flesh and drinking his blood would have disgusted him as a Jew. The events of that final supper were laid over his life much later.

John's Gospel (written about the year 100 AD) does not even mention it.

The irony is that today's Jesus has been removed from the world, placed on a divine pedestal and largely worshiped by Gentiles.

My own opinion, based on examples of the authentic Jesus's customary and radical speech and ideas.

Robert Pate
October 17th, 2015, 03:48 PM
To my way of looking at Jesus in the New Testament as well as confronting many different types of other fellow believers' personal theologies, Jesus would have rejected what we call "Christianity," one based on a blood sacrifice and a view of Jesus as "divine."

His original message was to the House of Israel. He compared Gentiles to "dogs." He did not think much of their worship style.

It was only after he was crucified did his later followers and chroniclers wrapped him up in the ancient theologies of the day.

As far as the later "Last Supper," even a metaphoric statement of eating Jesus's flesh and drinking his blood would have disgusted him as a Jew. The events of that final supper were laid over his life much later.

John's Gospel (written about the year 100 AD) does not even mention it.

The irony is that today's Jesus has been removed from the world, placed on a divine pedestal and largely worshiped by Gentiles.

My own opinion, based on examples of the authentic Jesus's customary and radical speech and ideas.

Where does it say that Jesus refered to Gentiles as dogs?

If you don't believe that Jesus is devine then he is just another sinful man and we are all still in our sins without hope.

You have a strange view of what you think that Christ and his church is, with nothing to support your view.

Robert Pate
October 17th, 2015, 03:53 PM
I don't think so. I speak the truth according to the Law and the Prophets; if you don't, it is because there is no light in what you say. (Isa. 8:20)

The law, the covenants, the Jewish religion, have all been abolished, Hebrews 8:13.

From now on, "The Just Shall Live By Faith". Not by rules, laws, or religion, Romans 1:17.

jamie
October 17th, 2015, 05:30 PM
From now on, "The Just Shall Live By Faith". Not by rules, laws, or religion, Romans 1:17.


I'm not sure what you mean by "from now on." Didn't righteous Abel live by faith?

Robert Pate
October 18th, 2015, 08:20 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "from now on." Didn't righteous Abel live by faith?

From now on means, after the resurrection of Christ and the beginning of the church age.

jamie
October 18th, 2015, 10:09 AM
From now on means, after the resurrection of Christ and the beginning of the church age.


Is righteous Abel part of the church age? He certainly knew Christ his Creator.

Robert Pate
October 19th, 2015, 08:52 AM
Is righteous Abel part of the church age? He certainly knew Christ his Creator.


The fact that Abel gave God a blood offering which pointed to Christ is proof that he was a Christian.

jamie
October 19th, 2015, 08:56 AM
The fact that Abel gave God a blood offering which pointed to Christ is proof that he was a Christian.


So the church age began with Abel, is that right?

Robert Pate
October 19th, 2015, 12:03 PM
So the church age began with Abel, is that right?

I would say so.

He was the first Christian martyer. Slain by his unbelieving brother Cain.

Ben Masada
October 19th, 2015, 01:29 PM
The law, the covenants, the Jewish religion, have all been abolished, Hebrews 8:13.

From now on, "The Just Shall Live By Faith". Not by rules, laws, or religion, Romans 1:17.

Do you know something Robert? I believe you. That's exactly what it says in the gospel of Paul. I am glad to hear this from you. You have proved my views about the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. People read that quote you have mentioned but prefer to hide behind the wall of faith. That's just how Paul meant them to walk; by faith and not by sight aka understanding. (II Cor. 5:7) Robert is right. That's the main message throughout the NT aka the gospel of Paul which I have been warning the people throughout. None of them has been as honest as Robert to confirm Replacement Theology so loud and clear.

Now, be aware all other Christians who are not so bold as Robert. He is reading from the gospel of Paul. The gospel of Jesus also says quite loud and clear that he did not come to ABOLISH the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill and to make sure we all do the same if you read Mat. 5:17-19. Jesus even made it to remain forever as a parable that the only way to escape hell-fire, one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:31)

Then, later, much later, about 100 years later or more, someone wrote Rev. 14:12 saying that, "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God aka the Law and the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism."

The other day a Christian poster challenged me to show him a Christian who believed in Replacement Theology. Behold, Robert Pate! It didn't take too long for one to rather proclaim to the "four corners" of the earth that every thing pertaining to Jewish Theology has been ABOLISHED. That's too dangerous because it contradicts Jesus himself.

Robert Pate
October 19th, 2015, 02:48 PM
Do you know something Robert? I believe you. That's exactly what it says in the gospel of Paul. I am glad to hear this from you. You have proved my views about the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. People read that quote you have mentioned but prefer to hide behind the wall of faith. That's just how Paul meant them to walk; by faith and not by sight aka understanding. (II Cor. 5:7) Robert is right. That's the main message throughout the NT aka the gospel of Paul which I have been warning the people throughout. None of them has been as honest as Robert to confirm Replacement Theology so loud and clear.

Now, be aware all other Christians who are not so bold as Robert. He is reading from the gospel of Paul. The gospel of Jesus also says quite loud and clear that he did not come to ABOLISH the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill and to make sure we all do the same if you read Mat. 5:17-19. Jesus even made it to remain forever as a parable that the only way to escape hell-fire, one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:31)

Then, later, much later, about 100 years later or more, someone wrote Rev. 14:12 saying that, "Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of God aka the Law and the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism."

The other day a Christian poster challenged me to show him a Christian who believed in Replacement Theology. Behold, Robert Pate! It didn't take too long for one to rather proclaim to the "four corners" of the earth that every thing pertaining to Jewish Theology has been ABOLISHED. That's too dangerous because it contradicts Jesus himself.

Sorry Ben but your Jewish religion is worthless.

While Jesus was dying on the cross God tore the veil that covered the "Holy of Holies" from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51. Literally destroying the temple.

This signified the end of the law, the covenants and the Jewish religion. From now on "The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not by laws, rules or the Jewish religion.

aikido7
October 19th, 2015, 08:00 PM
Where does it say that Jesus refered to Gentiles as dogs?

If you don't believe that Jesus is devine then he is just another sinful man and we are all still in our sins without hope.

You have a strange view of what you think that Christ and his church is, with nothing to support your view.He was declared by the church to be "without sin." This speaks to his importance for us Christians rather than any fact of history.

I tend to believe that he was actually, historically baptized by John. The church tried hard to deal with this embarrassing fact by adding some speech into John's mouth. I think it is sensible to conclude that Jesus was a disciple of John but when John was killed Jesus enlarged his ministry.

John worked in the Jordan River. He sent his followers out back into the Roman world. They were like a bunch of ticking time bombs.
Their actions came from John--so he was using a "corporate" model.

Jesus had a franchise going. And it was much more effective.

I am blessed by Jesus. But part of his message for me is to be accountable for my sins and imperfections. The ancient word "sin" actually means "Missing the mark." The world keeps going on, whether or not we sin or not.

We need to follow the Lord's Prayer and forgive ourselves and then others. That takes care of it all, don't you think?

Robert Pate
October 20th, 2015, 08:46 AM
He was declared by the church to be "without sin." This speaks to his importance for us Christians rather than any fact of history.

I tend to believe that he was actually, historically baptized by John. The church tried hard to deal with this embarrassing fact by adding some speech into John's mouth. I think it is sensible to conclude that Jesus was a disciple of John but when John was killed Jesus enlarged his ministry.

John worked in the Jordan River. He sent his followers out back into the Roman world. They were like a bunch of ticking time bombs.
Their actions came from John--so he was using a "corporate" model.

Jesus had a franchise going. And it was much more effective.

I am blessed by Jesus. But part of his message for me is to be accountable for my sins and imperfections. The ancient word "sin" actually means "Missing the mark." The world keeps going on, whether or not we sin or not.

We need to follow the Lord's Prayer and forgive ourselves and then others. That takes care of it all, don't you think?

John the Baptist was a prophet. His role was to announce the arrival of Christ.

Jesus is the Christ. The only begotten Son of God and the second person of the Godhead, "In him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead".

There is no comparrison between the two. Jesus was not a disciple of John.

beloved57
October 20th, 2015, 09:45 AM
Sorry Ben but your Jewish religion is worthless.

While Jesus was dying on the cross God tore the veil that covered the "Holy of Holies" from the top to the bottom, Matthew 27:51. Literally destroying the temple.

This signified the end of the law, the covenants and the Jewish religion. From now on "The Just Shall Live By Faith" and not by laws, rules or the Jewish religion.

Those Christ Lived and died for have Kept the Law Perfectly through Christ who kept it Perfectly, so they are Justified believers Rom 2:13

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

So explain how doers of the Law through Christ, how they die in their sins in unbelief as these Jn 8:24 !

Robert Pate
October 20th, 2015, 04:07 PM
Those Christ Lived and died for have Kept the Law Perfectly through Christ who kept it Perfectly, so they are Justified believers Rom 2:13

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

So explain how doers of the Law through Christ, how they die in their sins in unbelief as these Jn 8:24 !

Plain and simple, If you don't believe in Jesus you will die in your sins.

beloved57
October 20th, 2015, 04:17 PM
Plain and simple, If you don't believe in Jesus you will die in your sins.

Those my Christ lived and died for have no sins to die in and they are believers while they are enemies and unbelievers! Christ believed for them when He obeyed the Law of God for them!