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Robert Pate
October 5th, 2015, 09:49 AM
Truth is learned by reasoning and common sense.

Isaiah said, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be like crimson, they shall be as wool" Isaiah 1:18.

If the scripture says that the Lord is long-suffering toward us and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9. Then should we not believe that God is just and Merciful? Common sense should tell us that with very little reasoning.

If the scripture says that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, John 3:16. Then should we not believe that God wants ALL MEN to be saved and that he is not willing that any should perish?

If Isaiah said that our sins can be as white as snow. Then should we not believe that God has provided a way for our sins to be made as white as snow? Reasoning and common sense tells us that God can make our sins as white as snow.

If the scripture says that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Then why should we not believe the apostle Paul? Why believe what men say? Common sense should tell us that Paul being an apostle of Jesus Christ is a truthful an honest man.

The Bible portrays God as being just, merciful and righteous. Why not give God the credit and believe that he is? "Come let us reason together, saith the Lord. Reasoning and common sense should tell us that God loves us and the whole created order.

If the scripture says that it is God's will that all men would be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth, 1 Timothy 2:4. Common sense should tell us that God is for us and not against us. Jesus was not only God with us, he was God for us.

Come let us reason together and have common sense, so that we can see and believe the wonderful thing that God has done for us in his Son Jesus Christ. "Though your sins be as scarlet they can be as white as snow".

genuineoriginal
October 5th, 2015, 12:46 PM
Yes, God has provided a way for our sins to be made as white as snow, if we are willing and obedient.

Isaiah 1:19
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Robert Pate
October 5th, 2015, 02:28 PM
Yes, God has provided a way for our sins to be made as white as snow, if we are willing and obedient.

Isaiah 1:19
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

We are justified by faith apart from the works of the law, Galatians 3:11.

Being obedient and willing is a work of the law.

genuineoriginal
October 5th, 2015, 04:08 PM
Being obedient and willing is a work of the law.
There are those that are obedient.

Romans 6:16
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Then there are those that are not obedient.

Ephesians 5:6
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Lon
October 5th, 2015, 04:17 PM
Truth is learned by reasoning and common sense.
...

If the scripture says that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, John 3:16. Then should we not believe that God wants ALL MEN to be saved and that he is not willing that any should perish?

...
If the scripture says that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Then why should we not believe the apostle Paul? Why believe what men say? Common sense should tell us that Paul being an apostle of Jesus Christ is a truthful an honest man.
...

If the scripture says that it is God's will that all men would be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth, 1 Timothy 2:4. Common sense should tell us that God is for us and not against us. Jesus was not only God with us, he was God for us.

Come let us reason together and have common sense, so that we can see and believe the wonderful thing that God has done for us in his Son Jesus Christ. "Though your sins be as scarlet they can be as white as snow".
Whose reasoning? Whose 'common' sense (it has to be 'common' to call it that)? Universalism (https://carm.org/universalism) has serious problems in scripture and does damage to Christ's work on the Cross. It does not surprise me that you are going the universalism route, but it is saddening, Robert :(

Grosnick Marowbe
October 5th, 2015, 04:23 PM
Yes, God has provided a way for our sins to be made as white as snow, if we are willing and obedient.

Isaiah 1:19
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

You do realize we're living in the "Dispensation of Grace" and not in
the Old Testament, correct?

genuineoriginal
October 5th, 2015, 04:42 PM
You do realize we're living in the "Dispensation of Grace" and not in
the Old Testament, correct?
Did you remember to tell that to Paul?

Romans 15:18
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Robert Pate
October 6th, 2015, 08:03 AM
There are those that are obedient.

Romans 6:16
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Then there are those that are not obedient.

Ephesians 5:6
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.


The Gospel calls for holy living. We are called to be witnesses for Christ and his Gospel.

However, your very best is still tainted with sin and pride.

This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

Our righteousness is in heaven with Christ.

chrysostom
October 6th, 2015, 08:06 AM
reason and logic lead to common sense

jamie
October 6th, 2015, 09:20 AM
We are justified by faith apart from the works of the law, Galatians 3:11.


Yes, righteous Abel was justified by faith rather than works of the law. It's been that way from the beginning. The dispensation of grace began with Abel.


By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts and through it he being dead still speaks. (Hebrews 11:4 NKJV)

genuineoriginal
October 6th, 2015, 09:49 AM
The Gospel calls for holy living. We are called to be witnesses for Christ and his Gospel.

However, your very best is still tainted with sin and pride.
Your problem is that you are stuck in thinking that this is how you are to show your holy living:

Luke 18:11-12
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

You need to join me and start your walk of obedience in this manner:

Luke 18:13
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

Totton Linnet
October 6th, 2015, 01:59 PM
Yes, God has provided a way for our sins to be made as white as snow, if we are willing and obedient.

Isaiah 1:19
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

Obedience to faith....it appears more difficult than obedient to laws....until you realize that faith is a gift.

OliviaM
October 6th, 2015, 02:02 PM
We are all saved. Universalism is the only theology that makes any sense.

genuineoriginal
October 6th, 2015, 02:49 PM
We are all saved. Universalism is the only theology that makes any sense.
Universalism makes God into a liar.

genuineoriginal
October 6th, 2015, 02:52 PM
Obedience to faith....it appears more difficult than obedient to laws

In some ways it is more difficult, in other ways it is easier.

It is more difficult because you don't have a bunch of rules to follow.
It is easier because you have two guiding principles that you can follow instead of a bunch of rules.

Here are the two guiding principles for obedience to faith:

Mark 12:28-31
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

disturbo
October 6th, 2015, 03:21 PM
Universalism makes God into a liar.

There's nothing anybody can say that makes God a liar! And just because people believe different doesn't mean anybody is a liar.

genuineoriginal
October 6th, 2015, 03:30 PM
There's nothing anybody can say that makes God a liar! And just because people believe different doesn't mean anybody is a liar.

Very well, what I intended to be understood is that either the words of God are true or Universalism is true, but there is no way for both to be true.

Since God does not lie, then Universalism is the lie.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 6th, 2015, 03:42 PM
Your problem is that you are stuck in thinking that this is how you are to show your holy living:

Luke 18:11-12
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

You need to join me and start your walk of obedience in this manner:

Luke 18:13
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

You need to get down off your "high horse" and start a regimen of
reading/studying the writings of Paul. (Romans through Philemon)
It would appear as if, you're a bit of a, "Worker type?"

There are, "Worker types" (that's you) and there are, "Faither types."

genuineoriginal
October 6th, 2015, 03:52 PM
You need to get down off your "high horse"
I would have to get off my knees in order to get up on your high horse.


and start a regimen of
reading/studying the writings of Paul. (Romans through Philemon)
It would be better to start with the other writers of the Bible so I don't end up twisting Paul's words to my own destruction the way the people that only listen to Paul have done.

2 Peter 3:15-16
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Robert Pate
October 6th, 2015, 08:52 PM
I would have to get off my knees in order to get up on your high horse.


It would be better to start with the other writers of the Bible so I don't end up twisting Paul's words to my own destruction the way the people that only listen to Paul have done.

2 Peter 3:15-16
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Peter had some problems understanding Paul alright, Galatians 2:11-14.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 7th, 2015, 02:39 AM
I would have to get off my knees in order to get up on your high horse.


It would be better to start with the other writers of the Bible so I don't end up twisting Paul's words to my own destruction the way the people that only listen to Paul have done.

2 Peter 3:15-16
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

So, that's your reason for not reading/studying Paul's writings? After
all, he was writing to the Gentiles. I suspect you're one of those,
correct? Or, do you prefer to live according under the law, as a Gentile?

It's your choice to do so. Well, I understand. You're another, "Other."

genuineoriginal
October 7th, 2015, 07:47 AM
So, that's your reason for not reading/studying Paul's writings?
You must have me confused with someone else.
I read and study the entire Bible.


After all, he was writing to the Gentiles. I suspect you're one of those,
correct?
Peter was warning against reading Paul's letters if you are unstable and unlearned, since that means you (yes, you) will wrest Paul's writings to your own destruction.

There is a cure for being unlearned:

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
That does not mean studying Paul's writings and ignoring the rest.
It means to study what Paul studied so you can understand what Paul was speaking about.

Acts 28:23
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.


Or, do you prefer to live according under the law, as a Gentile?

It's your choice to do so. Well, I understand. You're another, "Other."
Do you prefer to make the law void through faith?
I don't understand why you would do something that Paul says God would forbid.

Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Maybe you should become learned and find out what it means to establish the law.

genuineoriginal
October 7th, 2015, 07:48 AM
Peter had some problems understanding Paul alright, Galatians 2:11-14.
And yet, Peter understood Paul a lot better than you seem to do.

Robert Pate
October 7th, 2015, 07:52 AM
And yet, Peter understood Paul a lot better than you seem to do.

I understand Paul completely.

Do you know what Peter did not understand in Galatians 2:11-14?

genuineoriginal
October 7th, 2015, 08:07 AM
I understand Paul completely.
You prove that you have misunderstood Paul with every thread you start.

Robert Pate
October 7th, 2015, 06:33 PM
You prove that you have misunderstood Paul with every thread you start.

Of course you are wrong.

I usually list a scripture with every post that I make.

Paul taught that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law, Romans 4:2.

What was Paul's gripe with Peter? You have yet to answer that.

Lon
October 8th, 2015, 01:12 AM
We are all saved. Universalism is the only theology that makes any sense.
:nono: No, but this explains a lot about you. You don't even understand the scriptures as mythic morals that you claim them to be :( Now you are perma-banned and will likely never be corrected on your faulty thinking :(

Totton Linnet
October 8th, 2015, 02:52 AM
Truth is learned by reasoning and common sense.

Isaiah said, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be like crimson, they shall be as wool" Isaiah 1:18.

If the scripture says that the Lord is long-suffering toward us and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9. Then should we not believe that God is just and Merciful? Common sense should tell us that with very little reasoning.

If the scripture says that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, John 3:16. Then should we not believe that God wants ALL MEN to be saved and that he is not willing that any should perish?

If Isaiah said that our sins can be as white as snow. Then should we not believe that God has provided a way for our sins to be made as white as snow? Reasoning and common sense tells us that God can make our sins as white as snow.

If the scripture says that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Then why should we not believe the apostle Paul? Why believe what men say? Common sense should tell us that Paul being an apostle of Jesus Christ is a truthful an honest man.

The Bible portrays God as being just, merciful and righteous. Why not give God the credit and believe that he is? "Come let us reason together, saith the Lord. Reasoning and common sense should tell us that God loves us and the whole created order.

If the scripture says that it is God's will that all men would be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth, 1 Timothy 2:4. Common sense should tell us that God is for us and not against us. Jesus was not only God with us, he was God for us.

Come let us reason together and have common sense, so that we can see and believe the wonderful thing that God has done for us in his Son Jesus Christ. "Though your sins be as scarlet they can be as white as snow".

What is so very good and kind about God is that He will take what is His word of a message like this and despite the cranky theology which you add to it, God will use it for His glory.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 8th, 2015, 02:56 AM
You must have me confused with someone else.
I read and study the entire Bible.


Peter was warning against reading Paul's letters if you are unstable and unlearned, since that means you (yes, you) will wrest Paul's writings to your own destruction.

There is a cure for being unlearned:

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
That does not mean studying Paul's writings and ignoring the rest.
It means to study what Paul studied so you can understand what Paul was speaking about.

Acts 28:23
23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.


Do you prefer to make the law void through faith?
I don't understand why you would do something that Paul says God would forbid.

Romans 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Maybe you should become learned and find out what it means to establish the law.

I would rather not learn anything from you and your ilk.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 8th, 2015, 02:58 AM
Of course you are wrong.

I usually list a scripture with every post that I make.

Paul taught that we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law, Romans 4:2.

What was Paul's gripe with Peter? You have yet to answer that.

Genuine ought to be ignored. He's got some real problems.

Grosnick Marowbe
October 8th, 2015, 02:59 AM
I would have to get off my knees in order to get up on your high horse.


It would be better to start with the other writers of the Bible so I don't end up twisting Paul's words to my own destruction the way the people that only listen to Paul have done.

2 Peter 3:15-16
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Another "Other" speaks.

genuineoriginal
October 8th, 2015, 04:47 AM
Of course you are wrong.

I usually list a scripture with every post that I make.
Yes, but then you interpret the scripture you post in a way that proves that you don't understand the scripture you post.

genuineoriginal
October 8th, 2015, 04:49 AM
I would rather not learn anything from you and your ilk.
Yes, you would rather die and end up in the lake of fire because your pride would be hurt if you learned anything true.

Robert Pate
October 8th, 2015, 07:22 AM
Genuine ought to be ignored. He's got some real problems.


On his mast head he refers to himself as a "Christian other".

What is a Christian "Other"?

I don't think that there is such a thing as a "Christian other".

You are either a Christian or you are not a Christian.

whitestone
October 8th, 2015, 07:56 AM
Truth is learned by reasoning and common sense.

Isaiah said, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be like crimson, they shall be as wool" Isaiah 1:18.

If the scripture says that the Lord is long-suffering toward us and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9. Then should we not believe that God is just and Merciful? Common sense should tell us that with very little reasoning.

If the scripture says that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, John 3:16. Then should we not believe that God wants ALL MEN to be saved and that he is not willing that any should perish?

If Isaiah said that our sins can be as white as snow. Then should we not believe that God has provided a way for our sins to be made as white as snow? Reasoning and common sense tells us that God can make our sins as white as snow.

If the scripture says that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Then why should we not believe the apostle Paul? Why believe what men say? Common sense should tell us that Paul being an apostle of Jesus Christ is a truthful an honest man.

The Bible portrays God as being just, merciful and righteous. Why not give God the credit and believe that he is? "Come let us reason together, saith the Lord. Reasoning and common sense should tell us that God loves us and the whole created order.

If the scripture says that it is God's will that all men would be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth, 1 Timothy 2:4. Common sense should tell us that God is for us and not against us. Jesus was not only God with us, he was God for us.

Come let us reason together and have common sense, so that we can see and believe the wonderful thing that God has done for us in his Son Jesus Christ. "Though your sins be as scarlet they can be as white as snow".

I really like this post R.P. especially the sentence you coined ,,,"...that God loves us AND THE WHOLE CREATED ORDER."

Why I say this is because of the "created order". In the scriptural created order we are told Colossians 1:15 KJV that the first born of every creature is our "Savior" and common sense should reason that this was no afterthought of God.

So for anyone to think for a second that God formed them and sent them into the world to act as "their own Savior" by their own works completely negates the order of creation. That is God did not create man(Adam) and as he and his offspring began to multiply and sin find it necessary to create an Savior, but in it's exact order first was the Savior,then those who needed salvation.

Robert Pate
October 8th, 2015, 08:07 AM
I really like this post R.P. especially the sentence you coined ,,,"...that God loves us AND THE WHOLE CREATED ORDER."

Why I say this is because of the "created order". In the scriptural created order we are told Colossians 1:15 KJV that the first born of every creature is our "Savior" and common sense should reason that this was no afterthought of God.

So for anyone to think for a second that God formed them and sent them into the world to act as "their own Savior" by their own works completely negates the order of creation. That is God did not create man(Adam) and as he and his offspring began to multiply and sin find it necessary to create an Savior, but in it's exact order first was the Savior,then those who needed salvation.

Glad that you liked the article.

Jesus will return to restore the fallen created order, Romans 8:22, 23.

What a day that is going to be.

jamie
October 8th, 2015, 08:17 AM
What is a Christian "Other"?


A Christian "other" is someone who is a follower and disciple of Jesus Christ outside of organized religion, which some of us believe is corrupt.

genuineoriginal
October 8th, 2015, 12:02 PM
A Christian "other" is someone who is a follower and disciple of Jesus Christ outside of organized religion, which some of us believe is corrupt.
The entire Bible shows how God always chooses someone outside of organized religion to bring His messages to the people, because that is the only way to find people that will listen to His words.

Since Pate is always bashing "religion" in his posts, he really needs to change his designation from Protestant Christian to Christian (other).

Robert Pate
October 8th, 2015, 04:35 PM
The entire Bible shows how God always chooses someone outside of organized religion to bring His messages to the people, because that is the only way to find people that will listen to His words.

Since Pate is always bashing "religion" in his posts, he really needs to change his designation from Protestant Christian to Christian (other).

You don't know what a Christian is.

A Christian is someone that lives by faith, because he has been justified by faith. Paul said, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17.

A Christian does not live by laws rules or religion. Those are things of the flesh. A Christian lives by Spirit.

genuineoriginal
October 8th, 2015, 06:16 PM
You don't know what a Christian is.
A Christian is someone that believes that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ), and has given up their life to Him.


A Christian is someone that lives by faith, because he has been justified by faith. Paul said, "The Just Shall Live By Faith" Romans 1:17.
Yes, and I have previously corrected your misunderstandings of "just" and "faith" as used by Paul.
"Just" is a word used by the translators of the KJV as a synonym for "righteous".
"Faith" in the quote by Paul from Habakkuk 2:4 is אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah.

אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah
__firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness
FROM אֵמוּן 'emuwn
__faithfulness, trusting
__faithful, trusty
FROM אָמַן 'aman
__to support, confirm, be faithful

You can't have the "Faith" Paul was speaking of without actions to match it.


A Christian does not live by laws rules or religion. Those are things of the flesh. A Christian lives by Spirit.
A Christian does not reject laws and rules.
Your objections to religion are a rejection of Christianity itself.

You reject the Spirit in your rejection of the duties of a Christian, and are left with nothing but living in your flesh.

Robert Pate
October 9th, 2015, 08:44 AM
A Christian is someone that believes that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ), and has given up their life to Him.


Yes, and I have previously corrected your misunderstandings of "just" and "faith" as used by Paul.
"Just" is a word used by the translators of the KJV as a synonym for "righteous".
"Faith" in the quote by Paul from Habakkuk 2:4 is אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah.

אֱמוּנָה 'emuwnah
__firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness
FROM אֵמוּן 'emuwn
__faithfulness, trusting
__faithful, trusty
FROM אָמַן 'aman
__to support, confirm, be faithful

You can't have the "Faith" Paul was speaking of without actions to match it.


A Christian does not reject laws and rules.
Your objections to religion are a rejection of Christianity itself.

You reject the Spirit in your rejection of the duties of a Christian, and are left with nothing but living in your flesh.


Just like I said, You don't know what a Christian is.

Even the devil believes that Jesus is the Messiah and the Christ. Is he saved?

Jesus has taken your life that you have given to him and has crucified it, Romans 6:6.

Jesus doesn't want your old dead sinful life. He wants you to have his sinless, perfected life that is reserved for you in heaven, 1 Peter 1:4.

Muires
October 20th, 2015, 05:32 PM
There must be reasoning. Nothing without some down-to-earth common sense. Even in religion. It's one of the things I liked about Swedenborg. His slogan was, Now it is permitted to reason about faith.

aikido7
October 20th, 2015, 05:41 PM
Truth is learned by reasoning and common sense.

Isaiah said, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be like crimson, they shall be as wool" Isaiah 1:18.

If the scripture says that the Lord is long-suffering toward us and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9. Then should we not believe that God is just and Merciful? Common sense should tell us that with very little reasoning.

If the scripture says that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, John 3:16. Then should we not believe that God wants ALL MEN to be saved and that he is not willing that any should perish?

If Isaiah said that our sins can be as white as snow. Then should we not believe that God has provided a way for our sins to be made as white as snow? Reasoning and common sense tells us that God can make our sins as white as snow.

If the scripture says that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Then why should we not believe the apostle Paul? Why believe what men say? Common sense should tell us that Paul being an apostle of Jesus Christ is a truthful an honest man.

The Bible portrays God as being just, merciful and righteous. Why not give God the credit and believe that he is? "Come let us reason together, saith the Lord. Reasoning and common sense should tell us that God loves us and the whole created order.

If the scripture says that it is God's will that all men would be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth, 1 Timothy 2:4. Common sense should tell us that God is for us and not against us. Jesus was not only God with us, he was God for us.

Come let us reason together and have common sense, so that we can see and believe the wonderful thing that God has done for us in his Son Jesus Christ. "Though your sins be as scarlet they can be as white as snow".Reasoning and common sense and logic (basically, taking the metaphors and legends as factually correct "events") are not useful in a study of the Bible. The divine and the sacred can only be indicated by metaphorical language or parables. Jesus simply did not preach in tropes of propositional as John asserts.

This is why all the useful "Proofs of God" are unmasked as illogical sooner or later.

He cannot be proved unless we pay attention to our own experience and interpretations. That is all we have to go on.

Men's attempts at proofs can hold back the confusion for awhile, but soon the believer will experience that logic-based faith as severely wanting.

Robert Pate
October 21st, 2015, 08:53 AM
Reasoning and common sense and logic (basically, taking the metaphors and legends as factually correct "events") are not useful in a study of the Bible. The divine and the sacred can only be indicated by metaphorical language or parables. Jesus simply did not preach in tropes of propositional as John asserts.

This is why all the useful "Proofs of God" are unmasked as illogical sooner or later.

He cannot be proved unless we pay attention to our own experience and interpretations. That is all we have to go on.

Men's attempts at proofs can hold back the confusion for awhile, but soon the believer will experience that logic-based faith as severely wanting.


We don't have to rely upon our own experiences and interpretations.

The Bible is a clear and precise record of Jesus Christ and his Gospel. All one has to do is read it and believe it.

WonderfulLordJesus
October 21st, 2015, 10:05 AM
Very much agree. There is common sense, and lack thereof. A good example is a thread here, where some are impugning the Bible's inspiration and the canon. We have a Bible where God holds us responsible for truth. We are told to live by His every word. We are told not to add or take away from His word. We are even informed all scripture is of the Holy Spirit, inspired. But then what? People claiming there's no reliable Bible. Well, who'd-a-thunk God would command us to obey truth, to study scripture, then leave us wondering what truth is, what scripture is, that the Creator of the universe, apparently, is powerless to write a reliable book, some would have you believe? What is this foolishness? Such an idea can only be one of two things: a tare trying to deceive people, or somebody with no common sense.

There are numerous occasions where claims made on message boards just don't compute with common sense. If you have a scintilla of genuine faith, you must even start with a competent, trustworthy God you can take at His word. If not, one must really wonder, and it's very suspect, why their faith is void and they're even hanging with Christians. Scripture is rational and sensible, is not contradictory or rife with the confusion some display, which is only indicative of their personal intellectual and spiritual deficiencies (some appearing quite dead!) which, of course, are not any deficiency in God and His holy word.

Somebody with no common sense should be ashamed, should repent and just go away, learn the word of God, instead of spreading senseless error that tries to make God a liar. But some tares prefer making their bed in hell, when all is said and done, to truth, one must suppose being a deceiver, trolling message boards, worth eternal damnation. How's that for common sense?

2 Timothy 2

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Revelation 22

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Robert Pate
October 22nd, 2015, 04:55 PM
Very much agree. There is common sense, and lack thereof. A good example is a thread here, where some are impugning the Bible's inspiration and the canon. We have a Bible where God holds us responsible for truth. We are told to live by His every word. We are told not to add or take away from His word. We are even informed all scripture is of the Holy Spirit, inspired. But then what? People claiming there's no reliable Bible. Well, who'd-a-thunk God would command us to obey truth, to study scripture, then leave us wondering what truth is, what scripture is, that the Creator of the universe, apparently, is powerless to write a reliable book, some would have you believe? What is this foolishness? Such an idea can only be one of two things: a tare trying to deceive people, or somebody with no common sense.

There are numerous occasions where claims made on message boards just don't compute with common sense. If you have a scintilla of genuine faith, you must even start with a competent, trustworthy God you can take at His word. If not, one must really wonder, and it's very suspect, why their faith is void and they're even hanging with Christians. Scripture is rational and sensible, is not contradictory or rife with the confusion some display, which is only indicative of their personal intellectual and spiritual deficiencies (some appearing quite dead!) which, of course, are not any deficiency in God and His holy word.

Somebody with no common sense should be ashamed, should repent and just go away, learn the word of God, instead of spreading senseless error that tries to make God a liar. But some tares prefer making their bed in hell, when all is said and done, to truth, one must suppose being a deceiver, trolling message boards, worth eternal damnation. How's that for common sense?

2 Timothy 2

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Revelation 22

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


It is all very plain and simple to me, as it is also to you.

aikido7
October 22nd, 2015, 05:05 PM
Truth is learned by reasoning and common sense.

Isaiah said, "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be like crimson, they shall be as wool" Isaiah 1:18.

If the scripture says that the Lord is long-suffering toward us and is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, 2 Peter 3:9. Then should we not believe that God is just and Merciful? Common sense should tell us that with very little reasoning.

If the scripture says that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, John 3:16. Then should we not believe that God wants ALL MEN to be saved and that he is not willing that any should perish?

If Isaiah said that our sins can be as white as snow. Then should we not believe that God has provided a way for our sins to be made as white as snow? Reasoning and common sense tells us that God can make our sins as white as snow.

If the scripture says that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Then why should we not believe the apostle Paul? Why believe what men say? Common sense should tell us that Paul being an apostle of Jesus Christ is a truthful an honest man.

The Bible portrays God as being just, merciful and righteous. Why not give God the credit and believe that he is? "Come let us reason together, saith the Lord. Reasoning and common sense should tell us that God loves us and the whole created order.

If the scripture says that it is God's will that all men would be saved and come into the knowledge of the truth, 1 Timothy 2:4. Common sense should tell us that God is for us and not against us. Jesus was not only God with us, he was God for us.

Come let us reason together and have common sense, so that we can see and believe the wonderful thing that God has done for us in his Son Jesus Christ. "Though your sins be as scarlet they can be as white as snow".Truth is also learned in metaphor, myth and narrative.

Propositional theology comes from human rationality and logic defining metaphorical characterizations in the context of a religion's standards of truth.

I have learned that the old rational, logical proofs of God make no common sense to me any longer. They have all proved to be wanting and nonsensical when it comes to true human rationality and logic.

Rationality and logical formulations are just a small part of the world we live in. We can affirm Jesus is the Lamb of God--but we do not take it literally. It is a metaphor of Jesus' death; it doesn't mean "Mary had a little lamb."

Robert Pate
October 23rd, 2015, 07:06 AM
Truth is also learned in metaphor, myth and narrative.

Propositional theology comes from human rationality and logic defining metaphorical characterizations in the context of a religion's standards of truth.

I have learned that the old rational, logical proofs of God make no common sense to me any longer. They have all proved to be wanting and nonsensical when it comes to true human rationality and logic.

Rationality and logical formulations are just a small part of the world we live in. We can affirm Jesus is the Lamb of God--but we do not take it literally. It is a metaphor of Jesus' death; it doesn't mean "Mary had a little lamb."


Maybe you have become so wise that you have lost your mind.