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Robert Pate
October 3rd, 2015, 05:02 PM
God does not zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them Christians as Calvinist believe. Nor does God give his Holy Spirit to those who do good works such as Catholics.

Paul said to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? ( Hearing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

The minute that one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit and places them "In Christ".

"In whom you also trusted after you had heard the word of truth, The Gospel of your salvation: in whom after that you believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

God only gives his Holy Spirit to those whom he sees as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10.

The Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. God's mark of ownership is the Holy Spirit. In the judgment you will be identified by the Holy Spirit. If you are void of the Holy Spirit you are lost.

WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Good works are not evidence that one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many are trying to work their way into heaven by their works or by being good enough.

Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit testify of Christ, John 15:26. They teach and preach the Gospel and are witnesses for Christ in what they say, do and believe. They are Christians.

They do not speak of themselves, John 16:13. Religious people are always talking about themselves and their religion. The Gospel is not about us, the Gospel is about Jesus Christ.

They glorify Jesus Christ, John 16:14. Christ is glorified when the Gospel is preached. The religious glorify themselves. Religion is subjective, The Gospel of Jesus Christ is objective (outside of us).

patrick jane
October 3rd, 2015, 05:12 PM
God does not zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them Christians as Calvinist believe. Nor does God give his Holy Spirit to those who do good works such as Catholics.

Paul said to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? ( Hearing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

The minute that one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit and places them "In Christ".

"In whom you also trusted after you had heard the word of truth, The Gospel of your salvation: in whom after that you believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

God only gives his Holy Spirit to those whom he sees as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10.

The Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. God's mark of ownership is the Holy Spirit. In the judgment you will be identified by the Holy Spirit. If you are void of the Holy Spirit you are lost.

WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Good works are not evidence that one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many are trying to work their way into heaven by their works or by being good enough.

Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit testify of Christ, John 15:26. They teach and preach the Gospel and are witnesses for Christ in what they say, do and believe. They are Christians.

They do not speak of themselves, John 16:13. Religious people are always talking about themselves and their religion. The Gospel is not about us, the Gospel is about Jesus Christ.

They glorify Jesus Christ, John 16:14. Christ is glorified when the Gospel is preached. The religious glorify themselves. Religion is subjective, The Gospel of Jesus Christ is objective (outside of us).

Good, no arguments here. -

Robert Pate
October 3rd, 2015, 05:41 PM
Good, no arguments here. -

That's because we are of the same Spirit.

Bradley D
October 3rd, 2015, 09:08 PM
I believe in coming to realize one has sinned, a repentance, and a belief that Christ has died for our sins.

"The time has come,' he said. 'The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!" (Mark 1:15)

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13).

Nick M
October 3rd, 2015, 09:09 PM
Good, no arguments here. -

There shouldn't be.

Nick M
October 3rd, 2015, 09:15 PM
I believe in coming to realize one has sinned, a repentance, and a belief that Christ has died for our sins.



Why the redundant statement and not back it up with scripture? Just wondering about the strangeness of your post.

God's Truth
October 3rd, 2015, 09:37 PM
God does not zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them Christians as Calvinist believe. Nor does God give his Holy Spirit to those who do good works such as Catholics.
The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey. See Acts 5:32.
Catholics do not obey. They call their brothers in Christ ‘father’, they bow to the works of their hands, they pray to Mary and other “Saints”, etc.
We have to obey to receive the Holy Spirit.



Paul said to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? ( Hearing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.
Paul is speaking about the ceremonial works such as circumcision and observing special days. Paul is not rebuking the Galatians for obeying Jesus too much.



The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

The minute that one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit and places them "In Christ".

"In whom you also trusted after you had heard the word of truth, The Gospel of your salvation: in whom after that you believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.
Believe what? Believe that we have to repent of our sins.



God only gives his Holy Spirit to those whom he sees as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10.
What?



The Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. God's mark of ownership is the Holy Spirit. In the judgment you will be identified by the Holy Spirit. If you are void of the Holy Spirit you are lost.

WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Good works are not evidence that one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many are trying to work their way into heaven by their works or by being good enough.
The good works we have to do is to forgive others, do not steal, do not lust, do not get angry, etc.



Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit testify of Christ, John 15:26. They teach and preach the Gospel and are witnesses for Christ in what they say, do and believe. They are Christians.

They do not speak of themselves, John 16:13. Religious people are always talking about themselves and their religion. The Gospel is not about us, the Gospel is about Jesus Christ.

They glorify Jesus Christ, John 16:14. Christ is glorified when the Gospel is preached. The religious glorify themselves. Religion is subjective, The Gospel of Jesus Christ is objective (outside of us).
The gospel is about having a personal relationship with God.
Jesus gives his Holy Spirit to those who believe and obey him. That is to whom Jesus makes his home with. Do you really think that God the Father, and Jesus Christ are going to make their home with people who are not sorry for their sins and have not repented?
See John 14:23.

steko
October 3rd, 2015, 09:47 PM
In this present dispensation, one is sealed with the Holy Spirit at the point at which they believe/faith/trust in the work of Christ on the cross in paying the penalty for our sins, believing that He died and was resurrected the third day, which is obedience to the gospel.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.- KJV

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.- ESV

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.- NASB

God's Truth
October 3rd, 2015, 09:50 PM
God gives the Holy Spirit to those who fear Him and who does what is right.


Acts 10:35 but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.

Acts 10:22 The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to ask you to come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say."

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

glorydaz
October 3rd, 2015, 09:54 PM
In this present dispensation, one is sealed with the Holy Spirit at the point at which they believe/faith/trust in the work of Christ on the cross in paying the penalty for our sins, believing that He died and was resurrected the third day, which is obedience to the gospel.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.- KJV

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.- ESV

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.- NASB


Amen....the obedience of faith! :thumb:

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

achduke
October 3rd, 2015, 09:58 PM
In this present dispensation, one is sealed with the Holy Spirit at the point at which they believe/faith/trust in the work of Christ on the cross in paying the penalty for our sins, believing that He died and was resurrected the third day, which is obedience to the gospel.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.- KJV

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.- ESV

Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.- NASB


Here is the prophecy of God bringing Israel from the grave and putting his spirit in them at that time.

Ezekiel 37:13 "Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves.

Ezekiel 37:14 "I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it," says the Lord.' "

steko
October 3rd, 2015, 10:02 PM
Here is the prophecy of God bringing Israel from the grave and putting his spirit in them at that time.

Ezekiel 37:13 "Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves.

Ezekiel 37:14 "I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it," says the Lord.' "

Yeah......yet future.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

patrick jane
October 3rd, 2015, 11:08 PM
There shouldn't be.

there's not, and Bradley D did give scripture, to back what up ? where's yours ? LOL

djokica8
October 4th, 2015, 03:24 AM
God does not zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them Christians as Calvinist believe. Nor does God give his Holy Spirit to those who do good works such as Catholics.

Paul said to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? ( Hearing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

The minute that one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit and places them "In Christ".

"In whom you also trusted after you had heard the word of truth, The Gospel of your salvation: in whom after that you believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

God only gives his Holy Spirit to those whom he sees as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10.

The Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. God's mark of ownership is the Holy Spirit. In the judgment you will be identified by the Holy Spirit. If you are void of the Holy Spirit you are lost.

WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Good works are not evidence that one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many are trying to work their way into heaven by their works or by being good enough.

Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit testify of Christ, John 15:26. They teach and preach the Gospel and are witnesses for Christ in what they say, do and believe. They are Christians.

They do not speak of themselves, John 16:13. Religious people are always talking about themselves and their religion. The Gospel is not about us, the Gospel is about Jesus Christ.

They glorify Jesus Christ, John 16:14. Christ is glorified when the Gospel is preached. The religious glorify themselves. Religion is subjective, The Gospel of Jesus Christ is objective (outside of us).
Are serial killers reciving holy spirit by beliving in gospel?

fishrovmen
October 4th, 2015, 03:45 AM
Why the redundant statement and not back it up with scripture? Just wondering about the strangeness of your post.

There is no redundancy

whitestone
October 4th, 2015, 04:32 AM
God does not zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them Christians as Calvinist believe. Nor does God give his Holy Spirit to those who do good works such as Catholics.

Paul said to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? ( Hearing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

The minute that one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit and places them "In Christ".

"In whom you also trusted after you had heard the word of truth, The Gospel of your salvation: in whom after that you believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

God only gives his Holy Spirit to those whom he sees as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10.

The Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. God's mark of ownership is the Holy Spirit. In the judgment you will be identified by the Holy Spirit. If you are void of the Holy Spirit you are lost.

WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Good works are not evidence that one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many are trying to work their way into heaven by their works or by being good enough.

Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit testify of Christ, John 15:26. They teach and preach the Gospel and are witnesses for Christ in what they say, do and believe. They are Christians.

They do not speak of themselves, John 16:13. Religious people are always talking about themselves and their religion. The Gospel is not about us, the Gospel is about Jesus Christ.

They glorify Jesus Christ, John 16:14. Christ is glorified when the Gospel is preached. The religious glorify themselves. Religion is subjective, The Gospel of Jesus Christ is objective (outside of us).

lol,bare in mind I'm the neophyte,,,but in Acts 9:6 KJV Paul neither had heard nor believed the Gospel. Instead he was told in Acts 9:6 KJV what he needed to do.

So the two "conditions" that everyone needs to do,fulfill,accomplish ect. Paul himself had not yet "done,fulfilled,accomplished ect."(the things you listed to do to receive the Holy Spirit),,,

Maybe it just seems odd but if we say to those who make a list of (things to do to be saved) and say that no in fact you are saved by Grace,and only Grace then is it proper to begin a "new list of things to do to" ,,,

NEW LIST OF THINGS TO DO
(1) hear,
(2) believe,

again Paul had not yet done either of those two in A9:6

Robert Pate
October 4th, 2015, 06:41 AM
Are serial killers reciving holy spirit by beliving in gospel?


The apostle Paul was a killer of Christians before he was converted to Christ on the road to Damascus.

We should never limit the power of the Holy Spirit to bring people to Christ.

My conversion to Christ was a shock for many.

Robert Pate
October 4th, 2015, 06:50 AM
lol,bare in mind I'm the neophyte,,,but in Acts 9:6 KJV Paul neither had heard nor believed the Gospel. Instead he was told in Acts 9:6 KJV what he needed to do.

So the two "conditions" that everyone needs to do,fulfill,accomplish ect. Paul himself had not yet "done,fulfilled,accomplished ect."(the things you listed to do to receive the Holy Spirit),,,

Maybe it just seems odd but if we say to those who make a list of (things to do to be saved) and say that no in fact you are saved by Grace,and only Grace then is it proper to begin a "new list of things to do to" ,,,

NEW LIST OF THINGS TO DO
(1) hear,
(2) believe,

again Paul had not yet done either of those two in A9:6


God had a purpose for Paul. Paul, like the other apostles was chosen.

Paul was called to be an apostle and to be murdered for his faith in Christ.

God called the most unlikely man to be a witness for Christ and his Gospel.

God's Truth
October 4th, 2015, 11:02 AM
Yeah......yet future.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


Paul was letting the believers know that the Jews were not cut off forever...that within the Jewish community---there are true believers who will come out of her and will be saved. It must have seemed as if God cut off all Jews forever. If God had cut off all Jews forever, then SOME TRUE BELIEVERS will be cut off forever. Since that is not the case---all Israel (meaning all true believers) will be saved, because not a whole race of people is cut off.

The Jews can be saved now just as the Gentiles can be saved.

When Jesus comes again, it will not be to bear sin, so then, it will be too late for anyone not yet saved.

God's Truth
October 4th, 2015, 11:06 AM
Are serial killers reciving holy spirit by beliving in gospel?

He acts as if he does not know many people who believe in God, yet they go on with their life sinning as usual.

God's Truth
October 4th, 2015, 11:12 AM
lol,bare in mind I'm the neophyte,,,but in Acts 9:6 KJV Paul neither had heard nor believed the Gospel. Instead he was told in Acts 9:6 KJV what he needed to do.

So the two "conditions" that everyone needs to do,fulfill,accomplish ect. Paul himself had not yet "done,fulfilled,accomplished ect."(the things you listed to do to receive the Holy Spirit),,,

Maybe it just seems odd but if we say to those who make a list of (things to do to be saved) and say that no in fact you are saved by Grace,and only Grace then is it proper to begin a "new list of things to do to" ,,,

NEW LIST OF THINGS TO DO
(1) hear,
(2) believe,

again Paul had not yet done either of those two in A9:6

Paul had to believe, hear, see, pray, fast, and wait.

God's Truth
October 4th, 2015, 11:19 AM
The apostle Paul was a killer of Christians before he was converted to Christ on the road to Damascus.

We should never limit the power of the Holy Spirit to bring people to Christ.

My conversion to Christ was a shock for many.

Did you pray and ask for forgiveness like the apostle Paul?

Robert Pate
October 4th, 2015, 01:59 PM
Did you pray and ask for forgiveness like the apostle Paul?


Nope! I was convicted by the Holy Spirit of my need for Christ.

Bright Raven
October 4th, 2015, 02:01 PM
When saved we are sealed with the Spirit of Promise.

glorydaz
October 4th, 2015, 02:03 PM
Nope! I was convicted by the Holy Spirit of my need for Christ.


When saved we are sealed with the Spirit of Promise.

:thumb:

aikido7
October 4th, 2015, 02:05 PM
The only condition I see is that any possible recipient be first and foremost a human being. The more "unclean" or "corrupt" the better.

"...Your faith has saved you."

Robert Pate
October 4th, 2015, 02:07 PM
When saved we are sealed with the Spirit of Promise.


Right! It is all of God, Ephesians 1:13.

Notice that it says... "After you have trusted and heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation".

whitestone
October 4th, 2015, 03:42 PM
So they don't believe that Jesus saved them on the cross at Calvary. ,,,,instead they close their eyes and go into that corner room in the temple 1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV , 1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV and not believing that Jesus saved them on the cross they confess that they are their own Savior,,they stand in the temple and reason what they do to save themselves,,,

Nanja
October 4th, 2015, 05:01 PM
Good, no arguments here. -

Patrick, please listen if you can.

Pate teaches and preaches a false gospel of works.

Hearing of the Gospel, which is Spiritual, can only be accomplished
by God giving one Spiritual Ears to hear, and that's evidence of New Birth.

Prov. 20:12
The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

"A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." - John 3:27

~~~~~

Nick M
October 4th, 2015, 05:21 PM
Hearing of the Gospel, which is Spiritual, can only be accomplished
by God giving one Spiritual Ears to hear, and that's evidence of New Birth.

Since you have been shown here several times, you can go to hell. :) Exactly as Paul said. Oh You full of fraud and deceit, how long will you pervert the straight ways of the Lord?

When people are told the gospel, they know it is true. God reveals it to them in their heart. He gives each a measure of faith.

17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

When presented the gospel, you hear it and you believe. Or you reject it by your own choice. You reject it. You claim you believe because God makes you believe. That is a false gospel to be accursed.

Nanja
October 4th, 2015, 05:32 PM
Since you have been shown here several times, you can go to hell. :) Exactly as Paul said. Oh You full of fraud and deceit, how long will you pervert the straight ways of the Lord?

When people are told the gospel, they know it is true. God reveals it to them in their heart. He gives each a measure of faith.

17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

When presented the gospel, you hear it and you believe. Or you reject it by your own choice. You reject it. You claim you believe because God makes you believe. That is a false gospel to be accursed.


You preach and teach a false gospel of works just as Pate does Jude 1:4!

~~~~~

Robert Pate
October 4th, 2015, 05:35 PM
Patrick, please listen if you can.

Pate teaches and preaches a false gospel of works.

Hearing of the Gospel, which is Spiritual, can only be accomplished
by God giving one Spiritual Ears to hear, and that's evidence of New Birth.

Prov. 20:12
The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

"A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." - John 3:27

~~~~~

HOGWASH!

Salvation has already been made available to all who do nothing more than call upon the name of the Lord, Romans 10:13.

Bradley D
October 4th, 2015, 07:12 PM
there's not, and Bradley D did give scripture, to back what up ? where's yours ? LOL

Thank-you.

Nick M
October 4th, 2015, 07:16 PM
there's not, and Bradley D did give scripture, to back what up ? where's yours ? LOL

What?

Bradley D
October 4th, 2015, 07:45 PM
God had a purpose for Paul. Paul, like the other apostles was chosen.

Paul was called to be an apostle and to be murdered for his faith in Christ.

God called the most unlikely man to be a witness for Christ and his Gospel.

You are right God does pick the unlikely to serve Him. Even the believers were concerned with Paul.

"When he came to Jerusalem, he was trying to associate with the disciples; but they were all afraid of him, not believing that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took hold of him and brought him to the apostles and described to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that He had talked to him, and how at Damascus he had spoken out boldly in the name of Jesus. And he was with them, moving about freely in Jerusalem, speaking out boldly in the name of the Lord.…" (Acts 9:26-28).

And instead of listening to the truth Jesus spoke. They put Him down believing Jesus was just the son of Joseph the carpenter.

"Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?" (Acts 9:27)

whitestone
October 4th, 2015, 10:04 PM
Over and over they deny the blood of the cross. They cannot believe it,they hear it preached but believe it they will not. They do not understand they are the temple of God and that when they close their eyes and are in that corner they confess "I am God ,I am the Christ,I am mine own Savior".

They boldly say they were saved by their own works. They have all the works to be preformed set in order in their minds and have their bodies fulfill it. They are Antichrist,they hold their works in higher esteem than the lords cross.

God's Truth
October 4th, 2015, 10:57 PM
Nope! I was convicted by the Holy Spirit of my need for Christ.

When you were convicted of your sins, did you repent of them?

God's Truth
October 4th, 2015, 10:59 PM
The only condition I see is that any possible recipient be first and foremost a human being. The more "unclean" or "corrupt" the better.

"...Your faith has saved you."

Faith alone is dead, and cannot save.

See James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

God's Truth
October 4th, 2015, 11:02 PM
Right! It is all of God, Ephesians 1:13.

Notice that it says... "After you have trusted and heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation".

The Word of Truth says to repent.

God's Truth
October 4th, 2015, 11:07 PM
Patrick, please listen if you can.

Pate teaches and preaches a false gospel of works.

Hearing of the Gospel, which is Spiritual, can only be accomplished
by God giving one Spiritual Ears to hear, and that's evidence of New Birth.

Prov. 20:12
The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the LORD hath made even both of them.

"A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven." - John 3:27

~~~~~

The works we no longer have to do are the ceremonial works.

The people used to have to do the ceremonial works for hundreds of years.

We do not have to do those works anymore to clean ourselves, but we still have to obey Jesus.

God's Truth
October 4th, 2015, 11:10 PM
Over and over they deny the blood of the cross. They cannot believe it,they hear it preached but believe it they will not. They do not understand they are the temple of God and that when they close their eyes and are in that corner they confess "I am God ,I am the Christ,I am mine own Savior".

They boldly say they were saved by their own works. They have all the works to be preformed set in order in their minds and have their bodies fulfill it. They are Antichrist,they hold their works in higher esteem than the lords cross.

We are not to do our works we do God's works.

Jesus' words are Spirit and life.

How are you going to have life if you do not do what the Word says?

How are you going to eat Jesus if you do not obey?

beloved57
October 4th, 2015, 11:18 PM
God does not zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them Christians as Calvinist believe. Nor does God give his Holy Spirit to those who do good works such as Catholics.

Paul said to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? ( Hearing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

The minute that one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit and places them "In Christ".

"In whom you also trusted after you had heard the word of truth, The Gospel of your salvation: in whom after that you believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

God only gives his Holy Spirit to those whom he sees as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10.

The Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. God's mark of ownership is the Holy Spirit. In the judgment you will be identified by the Holy Spirit. If you are void of the Holy Spirit you are lost.

WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Good works are not evidence that one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many are trying to work their way into heaven by their works or by being good enough.

Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit testify of Christ, John 15:26. They teach and preach the Gospel and are witnesses for Christ in what they say, do and believe. They are Christians.

They do not speak of themselves, John 16:13. Religious people are always talking about themselves and their religion. The Gospel is not about us, the Gospel is about Jesus Christ.

They glorify Jesus Christ, John 16:14. Christ is glorified when the Gospel is preached. The religious glorify themselves. Religion is subjective, The Gospel of Jesus Christ is objective (outside of us).

The Holy Spirit is given to all for whom Christ died and redeemed by His Blood Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

One cannot hear the Gospel, Gods word, unless they have been born of God, Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

beloved57
October 4th, 2015, 11:19 PM
HOGWASH!

Salvation has already been made available to all who do nothing more than call upon the name of the Lord, Romans 10:13.

False comment !

Robert Pate
October 5th, 2015, 06:49 AM
When you were convicted of your sins, did you repent of them?


All who come to Christ as repent sinners receive the Holy Spirit.

It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that causes him to repent.

However, repentance is on going through out the life of the believer. He never reaches the place where he thinks that he has finally arrived.

Because we are born after Adam we continue to fall short of what is required, which is perfection.

beloved57
October 5th, 2015, 08:00 AM
All who come to Christ as repent sinners receive the Holy Spirit.

It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that causes him to repent.

However, repentance is on going through out the life of the believer. He never reaches the place where he thinks that he has finally arrived.

Because we are born after Adam we continue to fall short of what is required, which is perfection.

False comment ! The natural man in the flesh cannot come to God, his heart is permanently unrepentant, incapable of it Rom 2:5

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

All men by nature have a stony hard heart Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

jamie
October 5th, 2015, 08:02 AM
Because we are born after Adam we continue to fall short of what is required, which is perfection.


In the Greek the word "perfection" refers to maturity.


...to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect... (Hebrews 12:23 NKJV)

Robert Pate
October 5th, 2015, 08:59 AM
In the Greek the word "perfection" refers to maturity.


...to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect... (Hebrews 12:23 NKJV)


We are MADE perfect. We do not become perfect.

"For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were MADE sinners, so by the obedience of one (Christ) shall many shall be MADE righteous" Romans 5:19.

Christ is our righteousness.

Robert Pate
October 5th, 2015, 09:03 AM
False comment ! The natural man in the flesh cannot come to God, his heart is permanently unrepentant, incapable of it Rom 2:5

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

All men by nature have a stony hard heart Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

This is why you are lost.

The natural man can hear and believe the Gospel. God does not create reprobates as you seem to believe.

That would make God unjust.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 09:36 AM
All who come to Christ as repent sinners receive the Holy Spirit.

It is the Holy Spirit working in the life of the believer that causes him to repent.

However, repentance is on going through out the life of the believer. He never reaches the place where he thinks that he has finally arrived.

Because we are born after Adam we continue to fall short of what is required, which is perfection.

And after you obeyed Jesus and humbled yourself and repented of your sins, you also feared God, forgave others, and called on Jesus to help you stop some of those sins, right?

Since you are no longer of the man Adam, and hence no longer of the flesh, you obey, right?

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 09:39 AM
Robert Pate claims he is still born after the flesh and not of the Spirit.

John 3:8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."


You need to be born of the Spirit.

RBBI
October 5th, 2015, 09:40 AM
AMEN

beloved57
October 5th, 2015, 09:43 AM
This is why you are lost.

The natural man can hear and believe the Gospel. God does not create reprobates as you seem to believe.

That would make God unjust.

Sorry, pal, man by nature has a stony hard unrepentant heart, nothing you can do about it, must be born again to repent !

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 09:46 AM
AMEN

I try never to assume, but hope you are saying Amen to what I posted.

Would you mind clarifying?

I would love it if I could get an Amen.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 09:48 AM
Sorry, pal, man by nature has a stony hard unrepentant heart, nothing you can do about it, must be born again to repent !

We have to do what Jesus says to get that new heart, a new heart that has the Holy Spirit living in it.

beloved57
October 5th, 2015, 10:05 AM
The only condition to receive the Holy Spirit is for Christ to have died for you! His death provides the gift of the Holy Spirit it is part of his death accomplishment! He is given freely with Christ Rom 8:34!

beloved57
October 5th, 2015, 10:09 AM
We have to do what Jesus says to get that new heart, a new heart that has the Holy Spirit living in it.

I know nothing of your religion or god or jesus and not interested!

steko
October 5th, 2015, 10:09 AM
Paul was letting the believers know that the Jews were not cut off forever...that within the Jewish community---there are true believers who will come out of her and will be saved. It must have seemed as if God cut off all Jews forever. If God had cut off all Jews forever, then SOME TRUE BELIEVERS will be cut off forever. Since that is not the case---all Israel (meaning all true believers) will be saved, because not a whole race of people is cut off.

The Jews can be saved now just as the Gentiles can be saved.

When Jesus comes again, it will not be to bear sin, so then, it will be too late for anyone not yet saved.

Still stubbornly ignorant of the mystery, huh?

'all Israel' is not 'all true believers'.

Israel is Israel throughout the Scriptures.
The definition of the word does not change except in the case of the divided kingdom distinguishing the northern kingdom from the southern kingdom.

Christ went to the cross once and for all to bear sin for all those who would believe on Him.

Robert Pate
October 5th, 2015, 10:09 AM
And after you obeyed Jesus and humbled yourself and repented of your sins, you also feared God, forgave others, and called on Jesus to help you stop some of those sins, right?

Since you are no longer of the man Adam, and hence no longer of the flesh, you obey, right?

All who come to Christ as repentant sinners receive the Holy Spirit.

They are sealed with the Holy Spirit and are in Christ, Ephesians 1:13. There is no unsealing.

God now sees them "In Christ". Colossians 3:3.

Because we have only receieved the "First fruits" of the Spirit, Romans 8:23. We are not fully sanctified yet.

This is why Paul said, "For this corruptible (Us) must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality" 1 Corinthians 15:53.

We have not arrived yet.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 10:11 AM
The only condition to receive the Holy Spirit is for Christ to have died for you! His death provides the gift of the Holy Spirit it is part of his death accomplishment! He is given freely with Christ Rom 8:34!

Anyone can become a sheep.

Robert Pate
October 5th, 2015, 10:13 AM
Sorry, pal, man by nature has a stony hard unrepentant heart, nothing you can do about it, must be born again to repent !

Then your God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrightious tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

This is why you can't trust him.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 10:14 AM
Still stubbornly ignorant of the mystery, huh?

'all Israel' is not 'all true believers'.

Israel is Israel throughout the Scriptures.
The definition of the word does not change except in the case of the divided kingdom distinguishing the northern kingdom from the southern kingdom.

Christ went to the cross once and for all to bear sin.

It isn't a mystery anymore because the all the apostles preached it and explained it.

It makes no difference about northern and southern.

You are speaking of earthly things.

Do you really need to be taught about that?

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 10:18 AM
Peter, the apostle that the MAD group dismisses...he taught the mystery.


1 Peter 1:10-12 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

2 Peter 1:19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

steko
October 5th, 2015, 10:22 AM
It isn't a mystery anymore because the all the apostles preached it and explained it.

Paul explains it and it's not a mystery if one understands Paul.


It makes no difference about northern and southern.

It did at the time.


You are speaking of earthly things.

I am speaking of the true history of the nation of Israel and specifically the Scriptural use of the term 'Israel', about which you are confused.


Do you really need to be taught about that?


Nope.

steko
October 5th, 2015, 10:28 AM
Peter, the apostle that the MAD group dismisses...he taught the mystery.


1 Peter 1:10-12 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

2 Peter 1:19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Peter is not referring to the mystery which Paul speaks of in Ro 11, of which he desires you and other gentiles to not be ignorant of.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 10:40 AM
Paul explains it and it's not a mystery if one understands Paul.

Peter explained the mystery too.



It did at the time.

A part of the mystery is that earthly things do not matter.



I am speaking of the true history of the nation of Israel and specifically the Scriptural use of the term 'Israel', about which you are confused.
You are confused.




Nope.

The earth is going to be destroyed; and human descent no longer matters. So then, what does northern and southern have to do with anything? What does blood relations have to do with anything?

I will tell you, it matters like...NOTHING.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 10:41 AM
Peter is not referring to the mystery which Paul speaks of in Ro 11, of which he desires you and other gentiles to not be ignorant of.

Oh, because YOU said so.

You are only denying the Truth.

beloved57
October 5th, 2015, 11:16 AM
Anyone can become a sheep.

Thats according to your apostate religion !

beloved57
October 5th, 2015, 11:17 AM
Then your God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrightious tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

This is why you can't trust him.

Evil speaking against God ! Thats not helping you !

Robert Pate
October 5th, 2015, 02:23 PM
Evil speaking against God ! Thats not helping you !

Jude 4.

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 07:11 PM
Christ saved you on the cross at Calvary over 1900 years ago. If you say "I was saved when I was(___),,thats when I did(___)" and put anything in those two blanks you are your own Savior,an Antichrist.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 07:29 PM
Christ saved you on the cross at Calvary over 1900 years ago. If you say "I was saved when I was(___),,thats when I did(___)" and put anything in those two blanks you are your own Savior,an Antichrist.

Jesus shed his blood on the cross for the sins of the world, but you do not get to enter that grace unless you have living faith, and that is faith with obedience.

See Romans 5:2.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 07:30 PM
Thats according to your apostate religion !

Jeremiah 31:18
"I have surely heard Ephraim's moaning: 'You disciplined me like an unruly calf, and I have been disciplined. Restore me, and I will return, because you are the LORD my God.

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 07:46 PM
Jesus shed his blood on the cross for the sins of the world, but you do not get to enter that grace unless you have living faith, and that is faith with obedience.

See Romans 5:2.

so you don't believe that you were saved by Christ himself on the cross?

glorydaz
October 5th, 2015, 07:52 PM
so you don't believe that you were saved by Christ himself on the cross?

She thinks she is that ONE. It's her own obedience she trusts in. Romans 5:19KJV

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 07:57 PM
so you don't believe that you were saved by Christ himself on the cross?

No one has access to that grace until they have living faith.

Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 07:57 PM
She thinks she is that ONE. It's her own obedience she trusts in. Romans 5:19KJV


I thought he was a man,lol, and yes I ask the very same thing of him a half year or so ago and he said "no way!",,,

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 07:58 PM
She thinks she is that ONE. It's her own obedience she trusts in. Romans 5:19KJV

I trust only in the Word of God. The Word of God is God's words.

I trust in God's words so much so that I do everything he says even though I did not understand.

Now that is faith.

jamie
October 5th, 2015, 08:06 PM
We are MADE perfect. We do not become perfect.


You said, "Because we are born after Adam we continue to fall short of what is required, which is perfection."

If we are made perfect how do we fall short of perfection?

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:08 PM
I thought he was a man,lol, and yes I ask the very same thing of him a half year or so ago and he said "no way!",,,

Glorydaz does not know for sure if I am a man or a woman.

What did you ask of me?

What do you think I said no way to?

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 08:11 PM
Glorydaz does not know for sure if I am a man or a woman.

What did you ask of me?

What do you think I said no way to?


Do you believe that you were saved by Christ on the cross,or do you think you need to do something to save yourself?

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:17 PM
Do you believe that you were saved by Christ on the cross,or do you think you need to do something to save yourself?

Why don't you read what I said?

Why don't you answer the questions that I asked?

You really do not understand.

Jesus shed his blood on the cross for the sins of the world, but everyone has to individually be saved and have their sins washed away. That happens when we obey Jesus.

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 08:20 PM
Why don't you read what I said?

Why don't you answer the questions that I asked?

You really do not understand.

Jesus shed his blood on the cross for the sins of the world, but everyone has to individually be saved and have their sins washed away. That happens when we obey Jesus.

So thats a simple "no",,you believe that you have to do something to be saved?

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:24 PM
So thats a simple "no",,you believe that you have to do something to be saved?

Of course, we have something to do with being saved. Jesus saves us all on his own and he chooses to save those he saves. Do you think the Lord and Savior just saves any wicked person?

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:27 PM
So thats a simple "no",,you believe that you have to do something to be saved?

By the way, why do you type the way you do? Do you have more than one account here? Why do you keep using comas when it should be periods?

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 08:32 PM
Of course, we have something to do with being saved. Jesus saves us all on his own and he chooses to save those he saves. Do you think the Lord and Savior just saves any wicked person?

Any wicked person?,narrows it down to,,,"all of us"? yea he saved us all but their are as it seems not many who believe it. That's why I'm asking you if (you) believe that he saved you on the cross the rest of the world may or may not believe that he did.

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 08:37 PM
By the way, why do you type the way you do? Do you have more than one account here? Why do you keep using comas when it should be periods?

I don't know I just do we all have our little quirks,,,I was going to be a long S sort of guy but there's no key for it on the keyboard,lol

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:38 PM
Any wicked person?,narrows it down to,,,"all of us"? yea he saved us all but their are as it seems not many who believe it. That's why I'm asking you if (you) believe that he saved you on the cross the rest of the world may or may not believe that he did.

There are no wicked persons saved without first repenting of their sins.

Why don't you accept God's Word who says we have access to God's grace by faith?

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:40 PM
I don't know I just do we all have our little quirks,,,I was going to be a long S sort of guy but there's no key for it on the keyboard,lol

I have no idea what you are talking about. What is a long S sort of guy?

So answer the question; do you have another account here? Now that you know your comas are wrong will you correct it?

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:41 PM
A person who will not be corrected with common writing errors, what makes anyone think they will take correction in spiritual things?

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 08:42 PM
There are no wicked persons saved without first repenting of their sins.

Why don't you accept God's Word who says we have access to God's grace by faith?


You keep changing the subject from what I ask. Do you believe Jesus saved you on the cross or should you save your own self?

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:47 PM
You keep changing the subject from what I ask. Do you believe Jesus saved you on the cross or should you save your own self?

I already answered you more than once. I do not mind repeating myself.

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he chooses those he saves.

Can you comprehend that much?

I would like to explain even further for you.

You need help, and I am patient.

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 08:53 PM
I already answered you more than once. I do not mind repeating myself.

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he chooses those he saves.

Can you comprehend that much?

I would like to explain even further for you.

You need help, and I am patient.

hmm,I believe he saved me on the cross,your probably not going to be able to talk me into doing things that deny it.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:56 PM
hmm,I believe he saved me on the cross,your probably not going to be able to talk me into doing things that deny it.

You were not saved over 2000 years ago before you were born.

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 08:58 PM
You were not saved over 2000 years ago before you were born.

see that wasn't that hard to admit,,,

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 08:59 PM
see that wasn't that hard to admit,,,

Stop using the commas and answer the questions.

In addition, stop being factitious.

whitestone
October 5th, 2015, 09:07 PM
lol, I'm not trying to anger you. I just wanted you to ask yourself the question of whether or not you believed he saved you back then or if you thought you needed to do something to save your own self.

That explains a lot if you think about it,that is if someone doesn't believe that he saved them then the natural reaction is to try to do something to get saved.

Any way though I am not trying to irritate you so I'll sign off and not bother you.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 09:11 PM
lol, I'm not trying to anger you. I just wanted you to ask yourself the question of whether or not you believed he saved you back then or if you thought you needed to do something to save your own self.

That explains a lot if you think about it,that is if someone doesn't believe that he saved them then the natural reaction is to try to do something to get saved.

Any way though I am not trying to irritate you so I'll sign off and not bother you.

Just because you say I am angry does not make it so.

Why didn't you answer any questions that I asked you?

I answered you but you cannot answer me.

God's Truth
October 5th, 2015, 09:13 PM
Whitestone,

No one enter the grace of God unless they have living faith.

Believe the scriptures.

See Romans 5:2; James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22; John 14:23, and Acts 5:32, and many more.

beloved57
October 5th, 2015, 11:21 PM
Jesus shed his blood on the cross for the sins of the world, but you do not get to enter that grace unless you have living faith, and that is faith with obedience.

See Romans 5:2.
Those my Christ lived and died for are reconciled to God and made righteous while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10,19 that is Gods Grace!

beloved57
October 5th, 2015, 11:23 PM
She thinks she is that ONE. It's her own obedience she trusts in. Romans 5:19KJV
You believe the same as she does! You believe that some people who Christ lived and died for are going to Hell don't you?

God's Truth
October 6th, 2015, 12:14 AM
Those my Christ lived and died for are reconciled to God and made righteous while they were enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10,19 that is Gods Grace!

God does not save unbelievers.

There is not one scripture anywhere that says God saves unbelievers.

beloved57
October 6th, 2015, 12:23 AM
God does not save unbelievers.

There is not one scripture anywhere that says God saves unbelievers.

You don't know My Jesus Christ and God, My Jesus reconciled me to God while I was a enemy and unbeliever Rom 5:10 and I was made righteous vs 19 that is Grace!

Puppet
October 6th, 2015, 05:08 AM
I trust only in the Word of God. The Word of God is God's words.

I trust in God's words so much so that I do everything he says even though I did not understand.

Now that is faith.


In a light bulb, electricity must be in place in order for light to occur. But, it is not true that light must in place for electricity to occur. The light is dependent on the electricity, not the electricity on the light. Therefore, the electricity is logically first. That is, it must be necessarily present in order for the resultant light to appear. However, the electricity is not temporally first because when the electricity is present, light is the necessary and simultaneous result. When two things are simultaneous, one does not have temporal priority over another. So, when the electricity is present, there is not a duration of time before light occurs. It occurs simultaneously with the presence of the electricity. This is the same with regeneration and faith. Regeneration must precede faith not in a temporal sense, but in a necessary sense. In must be in place in order for believing to occur, but it occurs simultaneously with regeneration. So, logically, regeneration is first. Temporally they are simultaneous.
Found at http://calvinistcorner.com/regeneration-precedes-faith.htm

Robert Pate
October 6th, 2015, 07:45 AM
In a light bulb, electricity must be in place in order for light to occur. But, it is not true that light must in place for electricity to occur. The light is dependent on the electricity, not the electricity on the light. Therefore, the electricity is logically first. That is, it must be necessarily present in order for the resultant light to appear. However, the electricity is not temporally first because when the electricity is present, light is the necessary and simultaneous result. When two things are simultaneous, one does not have temporal priority over another. So, when the electricity is present, there is not a duration of time before light occurs. It occurs simultaneously with the presence of the electricity. This is the same with regeneration and faith. Regeneration must precede faith not in a temporal sense, but in a necessary sense. In must be in place in order for believing to occur, but it occurs simultaneously with regeneration. So, logically, regeneration is first. Temporally they are simultaneous.
Found at http://calvinistcorner.com/regeneration-precedes-faith.htm


The Bible does not teach that people are zapped with the Holy Spirit.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. (which is the Gospel)

"This only would I learn of you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith?" Galatians 3:2. (which is the Gospel)

Only those who hear and believe the Gospel receive the Holy Spirit.

Are you going to believe God's word or are you going to listen to a heretic?

Puppet
October 6th, 2015, 08:43 AM
The Bible does not teach that people are zapped with the Holy Spirit.

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. (which is the Gospel)

"This only would I learn of you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith?" Galatians 3:2. (which is the Gospel)

Only those who hear and believe the Gospel receive the Holy Spirit.

Are you going to believe God's word or are you going to listen to a heretic?


:carryon:

God's Truth
October 6th, 2015, 10:09 AM
You don't know My Jesus Christ and God, My Jesus reconciled me to God while I was a enemy and unbeliever Rom 5:10 and I was made righteous vs 19 that is Grace!

That scripture does not say unbelievers.

You do a sin such as that to defend your false beliefs.

beloved57
October 6th, 2015, 10:10 AM
That scripture does not say unbelievers.

You do a sin such as that to defend your false beliefs.

You don't believe the scriptures!

God's Truth
October 6th, 2015, 10:12 AM
In a light bulb, electricity must be in place in order for light to occur. But, it is not true that light must in place for electricity to occur. The light is dependent on the electricity, not the electricity on the light. Therefore, the electricity is logically first. That is, it must be necessarily present in order for the resultant light to appear. However, the electricity is not temporally first because when the electricity is present, light is the necessary and simultaneous result. When two things are simultaneous, one does not have temporal priority over another. So, when the electricity is present, there is not a duration of time before light occurs. It occurs simultaneously with the presence of the electricity. This is the same with regeneration and faith. Regeneration must precede faith not in a temporal sense, but in a necessary sense. In must be in place in order for believing to occur, but it occurs simultaneously with regeneration. So, logically, regeneration is first. Temporally they are simultaneous.
Found at http://calvinistcorner.com/regeneration-precedes-faith.htm

Your analogy is not from God.

Faith is from God, from reading His powerful message, the Bible, the New Testament. It has the powerful message that saves. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading the supernatural message!

Where does our faith come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

In Acts 26:17 Jesus tells Paul he is sending him to the Jews and Gentiles to OPEN THEIR EYES and turn them from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. How do you think Paul is going to open the eyes of the Jews and the Gentiles? Remember, faith comes from hearing the word, and Jesus sent Paul to preach the gospel. 1 Corinthians 1:18 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel–not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

Paul is going to open their eyes by preaching to them.


Read what Paul says in Romans 16:25-27. Now to him who is able to ESTABLISH YOU BY MY GOSPEL AND THE PROCLAMATION OF JESUS CHRIST, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, but now revealed and MADE KNOWN THROUGH THE PROPHETIC WRITINGS by the command of the eternal God, SO THAT ALL NATIONS MIGHT BELIEVE AND OBEY HIM–to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Paul says that God made the prophetic writings known so that all nations might believe and obey. So again, the word of God tells us that faith comes from hearing. Here are more scriptures that explain how we have to HEAR the message that saves: Acts 8:31: 10:14; 11:14; 16:31; John 9:36; Ephesians 1:13; 4:21; Titus 1:3; Colossians 1:5; 1:23.

God's Truth
October 6th, 2015, 10:13 AM
God does NOT save unbelievers.

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God saves unbelievers.

Don't you want to only believe what God says?

Do you want the truth of some man, or do you want God's Truth?

Grosnick Marowbe
October 6th, 2015, 10:14 AM
God does not zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them Christians as Calvinist believe. Nor does God give his Holy Spirit to those who do good works such as Catholics.

Paul said to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? ( Hearing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

The minute that one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit and places them "In Christ".

"In whom you also trusted after you had heard the word of truth, The Gospel of your salvation: in whom after that you believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

God only gives his Holy Spirit to those whom he sees as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10.

The Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. God's mark of ownership is the Holy Spirit. In the judgment you will be identified by the Holy Spirit. If you are void of the Holy Spirit you are lost.

WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Good works are not evidence that one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many are trying to work their way into heaven by their works or by being good enough.

Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit testify of Christ, John 15:26. They teach and preach the Gospel and are witnesses for Christ in what they say, do and believe. They are Christians.

They do not speak of themselves, John 16:13. Religious people are always talking about themselves and their religion. The Gospel is not about us, the Gospel is about Jesus Christ.

They glorify Jesus Christ, John 16:14. Christ is glorified when the Gospel is preached. The religious glorify themselves. Religion is subjective, The Gospel of Jesus Christ is objective (outside of us).

Good post Pate

Grosnick Marowbe
October 6th, 2015, 10:18 AM
You don't know My Jesus Christ and God, My Jesus reconciled me to God while I was a enemy and unbeliever Rom 5:10 and I was made righteous vs 19 that is Grace!

You're a "Crazed hyper-Calvinist fanatic." Your "belief system" is
tainted with false doctrine.

Puppet
October 6th, 2015, 11:26 AM
God does NOT save unbelievers.

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God saves unbelievers.

Don't you want to only believe what God says?

Do you want the truth of some man, or do you want God's Truth?

Did God save any sinful man:

-cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).
-is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23).
-does not seek for God (Rom. 3:11).
-is lawless, rebellious, unholy, and profane (1 Tim. 1:9).

????

serpentdove
October 6th, 2015, 12:03 PM
No conditions. Come as you are (Jn 3:16).


“The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel. The minute that one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit and places them "In Christ".” Yes, believe. Tell your household and they will be saved, too (Ac 16:31).


“If you are void of the Holy Spirit you are lost.”
That’s right. If you are his, it will show by good works. If you remain of the devil, those evil works will eventually be known, as well.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law (Ga 5:19–23).

God's Truth
October 6th, 2015, 06:45 PM
Did God save any sinful man:
Of course, God saves sinful men, but they must believe and obey Him to be saved.




-cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).

That scripture is about the man who does not want to be saved, for it does not take understanding to obey. We get understanding AFTER we believe and obey.

I have many scriptures proving we do not have to understand to obey.




-is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23).
That scripture just tells us that sin starts from thoughts that you foster in your heart.





-does not seek for God (Rom. 3:11).


Paul was just quoting the old testament when God came no one searched for Him. Paul is just explaining that the Jews were God's children but sinned like disobedient Gentiles.

People did search for God. I have scriptures that prove it.





-is lawless, rebellious, unholy, and profane (1 Tim. 1:9).

????
That scripture is about good people obeying without a written law.

God's Truth
October 6th, 2015, 06:46 PM
No conditions. Come as you are (Jn 3:16).

Yes, believe. Tell your household and they will be saved, too (Ac 16:31).


That’s right. If you are his, it will show by good works. If you remain of the devil, those evil works will eventually be known, as well.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law (Ga 5:19–23).

You never sought God, you merely believed the first doctrines you were taught.

Robert Pate
October 6th, 2015, 07:16 PM
You never sought God, you merely believed the first doctrines you were taught.

The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.

Those that hear the Gospel and believe are saved.

God's Truth
October 6th, 2015, 07:20 PM
The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ.
God calls all people, but you still have to search for Him; even Solomon son of king David had to search for God.




Those that hear the Gospel and believe are saved.

That is not enough, for you have to have a heart in which Jesus wants to save; and Jesus says it is the heart that fears God and does right that he saves.

God's Truth
October 6th, 2015, 07:20 PM
You never sought God.

Aimiel
October 6th, 2015, 07:43 PM
John, the baptist was filled with The Holy Spirit while still in his mommy's belly. :think:

Robert Pate
October 6th, 2015, 08:28 PM
God calls all people, but you still have to search for Him; even Solomon son of king David had to search for God.



That is not enough, for you have to have a heart in which Jesus wants to save; and Jesus says it is the heart that fears God and does right that he saves.

HOGWASH!

Some of those people that were saved on the day of Pentecost had participated in the crucifixion of Christ, Acts 2:23 and Acts 2:36.

Puppet
October 7th, 2015, 05:59 AM
Of course, God saves sinful men, but they must believe and obey Him to be saved.



That scripture is about the man who does not want to be saved, for it does not take understanding to obey. We get understanding AFTER we believe and obey.

I have many scriptures proving we do not have to understand to obey.



That scripture just tells us that sin starts from thoughts that you foster in your heart.





Paul was just quoting the old testament when God came no one searched for Him. Paul is just explaining that the Jews were God's children but sinned like disobedient Gentiles.

People did search for God. I have scriptures that prove it.


That scripture is about good people obeying without a written law.


Most of what you said sounds like traditions. The list goes on to prove total depravity that confirms regeneration precedes faith.

is man who:

- is deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9).
- is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23).
- loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19).
- is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12).
- is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
- is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1).
- is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3).
- cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).
- is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

God's Truth
October 7th, 2015, 06:03 AM
HOGWASH!

Some of those people that were saved on the day of Pentecost had participated in the crucifixion of Christ, Acts 2:23 and Acts 2:36.

How in the world do you think you disproved the written word of God that says we MUST SEEK HIM?

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul.


Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.


Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.


Matthew 7:8
For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.



Do you know how to seek God?

God's Truth
October 7th, 2015, 06:18 AM
Most of what you said sounds like traditions. The list goes on to prove total depravity that confirms regeneration precedes faith.



The written word of God says that God searches our hearts.

If all were completely evil, then what is God searching hearts for?


John 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve."

Acts 1:24
Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen

Romans 8:27
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God.


Revelation 2:23
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.


1 Kings 8:39
then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Forgive and act; deal with everyone according to all they do, since you know their hearts (for you alone know every human heart),

1 Chronicles 28:9
"And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

Psalm 44:21
would not God have discovered it, since he knows the secrets of the heart?

Psalm 139:23
Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts.

Proverbs 17:3
The crucible for silver and the furnace for gold, but the LORD tests the heart.


Jeremiah 11:20
But you, LORD Almighty, who judge righteously and test the heart and mind, let me see your vengeance on them, for to you I have committed my cause.

Robert Pate
October 7th, 2015, 08:03 AM
How in the world do you think you disproved the written word of God that says we MUST SEEK HIM?

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you seek him with all your heart and with all your soul.


Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.


Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.


Matthew 7:8
For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.



Do you know how to seek God?


God finds us before we find him, Matthew 18:11.

God's Truth
October 7th, 2015, 11:15 AM
God finds us before we find him, Matthew 18:11.

That scripture is about the lost sheep of Israel.

All are lost until they hear the message that saves, and BELIEVES AND OBEYS.

False Prophet
October 7th, 2015, 11:32 AM
“And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions. Joel 2:28
For whom?
And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls. Joel 2:32 ESV

Robert Pate
October 7th, 2015, 02:07 PM
That scripture is about the lost sheep of Israel.

All are lost until they hear the message that saves, and BELIEVES AND OBEYS.

Actually all are born saved.

Somewhere in the early stages of childhood we make a decision to either follow Christ or follow the devil.

Puppet
October 8th, 2015, 08:47 AM
The written word of God says that God searches our hearts.

If all were completely evil, then what is God searching hearts for?


John 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

Jeremiah 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve."

Acts 1:24
Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen

Romans 8:27
And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God's people in accordance with the will of God.


Revelation 2:23
I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.


1 Kings 8:39
then hear from heaven, your dwelling place. Forgive and act; deal with everyone according to all they do, since you know their hearts (for you alone know every human heart),

1 Chronicles 28:9
"And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

Psalm 44:21
would not God have discovered it, since he knows the secrets of the heart?

Psalm 139:23
Search me, God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts.

Proverbs 17:3
The crucible for silver and the furnace for gold, but the LORD tests the heart.


Jeremiah 11:20
But you, LORD Almighty, who judge righteously and test the heart and mind, let me see your vengeance on them, for to you I have committed my cause.

You're stuck into traditions agian. Some of those examples aren't indicative of morality or the hearts sinful condition - it just talks about mere information. Some other of those examples are spoken to people who have been born again and so they do have "good hearts" that actually do seek God.

But generally speaking, I think when God tells us that he's searching the hearts of men, it's to show everyone that people are completely without excuse. The same reason why the Books are open at the final judgment, although no one "passes" that judgment and enters eternal life. It's to demonstrate not just that God has spoken the truth but has "investigated" it as well.

beloved57
October 8th, 2015, 01:20 PM
Actually all are born saved.

Somewhere in the early stages of childhood we make a decision to either follow Christ or follow the devil.

False comments not supported by scripture!

God's Truth
October 8th, 2015, 02:17 PM
Actually all are born saved.

Somewhere in the early stages of childhood we make a decision to either follow Christ or follow the devil.

Except that, NO SCRIPTURE SAYS WE ARE BORN SAVED.

Can you show me a scripture that says that?

God's Truth
October 8th, 2015, 02:19 PM
False comments not supported by scripture!

That is right! So give up your false beliefs that are NOWHERE in the Bible. No scripture anywhere says God saves unbelievers.

God's Truth
October 8th, 2015, 02:22 PM
You're stuck into traditions agian. Some of those examples aren't indicative of morality or the hearts sinful condition - it just talks about mere information. Some other of those examples are spoken to people who have been born again and so they do have "good hearts" that actually do seek God.

But generally speaking, I think when God tells us that he's searching the hearts of men, it's to show everyone that people are completely without excuse. The same reason why the Books are open at the final judgment, although no one "passes" that judgment and enters eternal life. It's to demonstrate not just that God has spoken the truth but has "investigated" it as well.

You are dismissing GOD's WORD and calling what the Word of God says as tradition.

God searches our hearts PROVES that there is more than just evil in everyone's heart.

whitestone
October 8th, 2015, 02:25 PM
That is right! So give up your false beliefs that are NOWHERE in the Bible. No scripture anywhere says God saves unbelievers.


lol,look real close at Colossians 1:15 KJV It seems to me that our Savior was created before either the unbelievers or the believers. So if an Savior proceeds any of those who would afterward need salvation,who is this salvation intended to save?

God's Truth
October 8th, 2015, 02:44 PM
lol,look real close at Colossians 1:15 KJV It seems to me that our Savior was created before either the unbelievers or the believers. So if an Savior proceeds any of those who would afterward need salvation,who is this salvation intended to save?

Come back to the point of what I said.

I said God does NOT save unbelievers. That means if anyone wants to be saved---THEY HAVE TO FIRST BELIEVE.

Calvinists say that God saves without our believing.

whitestone
October 8th, 2015, 03:07 PM
Come back to the point of what I said.

I said God does NOT save unbelievers. That means if anyone wants to be saved---THEY HAVE TO FIRST BELIEVE.

Calvinists say that God saves without our believing.


but every-time I or someone else points out that at the beginning of creation,the firstborn of creation was and is your salvation you proceed into explaining how you think you were your own Savior and explain that you did this and that and thats how you became saved.

The error in this is this,if the one who was by description in Colossians 1:15 KJV both mine and your "Savior" and we decide that he was not,then we become our own "replacement Christ". That is we set aside the chief cornerstone and pretend that God formed us from the dust and set us into the earth to save our own self by our works.

In this same mind we confess that we are God. That is as we know Jesus is the image of the invisible God,and he is our Savior so the invisible God is also our Savior.

Again if we think that God has formed us from the dust and breathed life into us and we are then born into our lifetimes to save our own-selves we perceive that we are Christ and/or our own saviors. This is the very mind of Antichrist for one to say that he is the Savior when the true Savior is the firstborn of creation.

God's Truth
October 8th, 2015, 03:22 PM
but every-time I or someone else points out that at the beginning of creation,the firstborn of creation was and is your salvation you proceed into explaining how you think you were your own Savior and explain that you did this and that and thats how you became saved.
The first born of all creation does not mean you were saved then.


The error in this is this,if the one who was by description in Colossians 1:15 KJV both mine and your "Savior" and we decide that he was not,then we become our own "replacement Christ". That is we set aside the chief cornerstone and pretend that God formed us from the dust and set us into the earth to save our own self by our works.
It is your error since you believe you were saved before you were ever born.



In this same mind we confess that we are God. That is as we know Jesus is the image of the invisible God,and he is our Savior so the invisible God is also our Savior.

Again if we think that God has formed us from the dust and breathed life into us and we are then born into our lifetimes to save our own-selves we perceive that we are Christ and/or our own saviors. This is the very mind of Antichrist for one to say that he is the Savior when the true Savior is the firstborn of creation.
We have to obey Jesus, the Word of God, if we want to be saved. You were not saved before you were saved. That is illogical and not scriptural

WonderfulLordJesus
October 8th, 2015, 03:31 PM
I believe in coming to realize one has sinned, a repentance, and a belief that Christ has died for our sins.

"The time has come,' he said. 'The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!" (Mark 1:15)

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13).

Good, to the point answer. And it is the lack of repentance that, so sadly, will cause the "easy believer" to stumble at the Cornerstone and be crushed.

It would seem so very obvious the Lord does not and would not save those who've not repented, will not save anybody who's not had a change of mind and come to agreement with God over sin and the need for a Savior. Save somebody who continues to love the things of the world, who does not even agree with Him? Save one who isn't really even seeking the things of God, with a repentant heart? Give an unrepentant child of the devil the Holy Spirit? Bring an unrepentant child of the devil into the kingdom of heaven? And the Lord knows who the lip-service phonies are (Hebrews 4:12).

There's a whole class of "Christian" "professors, who are not possessors." Otherwise known as virgins without oil in their lamps, not really born again of the Holy Spirit. You'll notice, like "sin" or "hell," how "repentance" is also a dirty word in the Laodicean mega churches, teaching a false gospel of the world that does not, that cannot, really save anybody.

Be warned, Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Definition - Repentance is the work of God which results in a change of mind in respect to man's relationship to God. It is neither sorrow nor penance, though penitent sorrow may lead to a change of mind. Repentance is always an element of saving faith, and repentance involves remorseful acknowledgement of and agreement with God as to our sinful state and need of salvation, a realization of our vile, unclean condition before a God of absolute holiness.

Luke 18

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

"When you get saved, you get saved not because you deserve it, but because you simply let God save you and because you confess your own poor sinful state and your inability to save yourself." Dr. John R. Rice

"Repentance is the recognition of my sinnership — the owning before God that I am as vile as He has declared me to be in His holy Word." Pastor Harry Ironside

Salvation is not touching your TV for Billy Graham, then off, as usual, for drinks all around at the bar, "get out of hell free" card in your back pocket.

John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

whitestone
October 8th, 2015, 03:31 PM
you set in the temple of God 1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV and confess that your are the Savior,that you are God. You say that God formed you and set you forth to save yourself by works. You say that he did not save you and that he was not created before every man the one true Savior. This is an cornerstone you will repent of,and you will not have peace nor salvation until you repent of it.

God's Truth
October 8th, 2015, 03:51 PM
you set in the temple of God 1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV and confess that your are the Savior,that you are God. You say that God formed you and set you forth to save yourself by works. You say that he did not save you and that he was not created before every man the one true Savior. This is an cornerstone you will repent of,and you will not have peace nor salvation until you repent of it.

You go on saying any lie.

Start caring about the Truth.

Robert Pate
October 8th, 2015, 03:57 PM
Good, to the point answer. And it is the lack of repentance that, so sadly, will cause the "easy believer" to stumble at the Cornerstone and be crushed.

It would seem so very obvious the Lord does not and would not save those who've not repented, will not save anybody who's not had a change of mind and come to agreement with God over sin and the need for a Savior. Save somebody who continues to love the things of the world, who does not even agree with Him? Save one who isn't really even seeking the things of God, with a repentant heart? Give an unrepentant child of the devil the Holy Spirit? Bring an unrepentant child of the devil into the kingdom of heaven? And the Lord knows who the lip-service phonies are (Hebrews 4:12).

There's a whole class of "Christian" "professors, who are not possessors." Otherwise known as virgins without oil in their lamps, not really born again of the Holy Spirit. You'll notice, like "sin" or "hell," how "repentance" is also a dirty word in the Laodicean mega churches, teaching a false gospel of the world that does not, that cannot, really save anybody.

Be warned, Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Definition - Repentance is the work of God which results in a change of mind in respect to man's relationship to God. It is neither sorrow nor penance, though penitent sorrow may lead to a change of mind. Repentance is always an element of saving faith, and repentance involves remorseful acknowledgement of and agreement with God as to our sinful state and need of salvation, a realization of our vile, unclean condition before a God of absolute holiness.

Luke 18

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 2:37-38 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

"When you get saved, you get saved not because you deserve it, but because you simply let God save you and because you confess your own poor sinful state and your inability to save yourself." Dr. John R. Rice

"Repentance is the recognition of my sinnership — the owning before God that I am as vile as He has declared me to be in His holy Word." Pastor Harry Ironside

Salvation is not touching your TV for Billy Graham, then off, as usual, for drinks all around at the bar, "get out of hell free" card in your back pocket.

John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Best post of the day.

whitestone
October 8th, 2015, 03:59 PM
You go on saying any lie.

Start caring about the Truth.


You carry on preaching that you are your own Savior and that the firstborn creation is not. Nothing will change you will remain anti-Christ and we will keep pointing it out,,,save your own self.

God's Truth
October 8th, 2015, 04:01 PM
you set in the temple of God 1 Corinthians 6:19 KJV and confess that your are the Savior,that you are God.
Do you know what it is to bear false witness? It is a bad sin.
We become the temple of God when we are given the Holy Spirit.
We receive the Holy Spirit if Jesus chooses to save us.
Jesus chooses to save those who believe and obey him.



You say that God formed you and set you forth to save yourself by works.
Obeying Jesus’ words are full of Spirit and life. If you do not obey Jesus, then you do not have Spirit and life.





You say that he did not save you and that he was not created before every man the one true Savior.

Jesus is the first born over all creation, and he did save me.

I just proved you are a liar and false witness.



This is an cornerstone you will repent of,and you will not have peace nor salvation until you repent of it.
You are the one who needs to repent.

God's Truth
October 8th, 2015, 04:04 PM
You carry on preaching that you are your own Savior and that the firstborn creation is not. Nothing will change you will remain anti-Christ and we will keep pointing it out,,,save your own self.

You come doing your father's work, and that is to lie, bear false witness, and accuse the brethren.

whitestone
October 8th, 2015, 04:05 PM
Do you know what it is to bear false witness? It is a bad sin.
We become the temple of God when we are given the Holy Spirit.
We receive the Holy Spirit if Jesus chooses to save us.
Jesus chooses to save those who believe and obey him.


Obeying Jesus’ words are full of Spirit and life. If you do not obey Jesus, then you do not have Spirit and life.




Jesus is the first born over all creation, and he did save me.

I just proved you are a liar and false witness.


You are the one who needs to repent.


Lord,I am my own Savior and you are not. Is that what you think I should say when I repent?

Puppet
October 9th, 2015, 10:48 AM
You are dismissing GOD's WORD and calling what the Word of God says as tradition.

God searches our hearts PROVES that there is more than just evil in everyone's heart.

Your idea isn't always the right idea.

God's Truth
October 9th, 2015, 05:36 PM
Lord,I am my own Savior and you are not. Is that what you think I should say when I repent?

You need to repent for following false teachings.

God's Truth
October 9th, 2015, 05:39 PM
Your idea isn't always the right idea.

I beg you, just try it, just believe what the Bible plainly says.

Puppet
October 9th, 2015, 05:44 PM
I beg you, just try it, just believe what the Bible plainly says.

I don't "play Christian"

whitestone
October 10th, 2015, 06:52 AM
You need to repent for following false teachings.


You need to repent for following false teachings.

lol,and see many years ago I was once just like you. I also believed in salvation by works. I didn't see that the very thing that I was doing was denying the blood of the cross. Yes the words Jesus is your Savior,Jesus is the Christ are the words I said,but there was no proof I believed it if you examined my works.

I said this over and over to all who ventured into my path. You remind me of that man I once knew. I by the time the internet came about understood different,I knew that I was not mine own Savior.

I say you were saved by the blood of the cross at Calvary. You say when I say it to you "no way!". Years ago I pondered if there were any who experienced this conversion to Christ while chatting back and forth in a chat room. I have seen some few who I thought saw the truth.but as I watched them closer they descended back to salvation by works,so it's rare at best.

There are not but the two. There is the Holy Spirit,and there is the UN-holy spirit. One see's these that were made clean by the cross "clean",and the other see's the same as "UN-clean". Those who see that the cross saved them and made them clean have the Holy Spirit,the other seeing these left unsaved the UN-holy spirit and are anti-Christ.

lol, remember that it was once said Acts 10:14-15 KJV common,unclean and remember that if God sees these as clean and not common who is a man who sees them unclean? Every person who believes these as unclean are thrust into salvation by works. Every person who believes that they were saved by the cross are not and are then at rest from their works.

Beg Christ to save you,he will not deny his own blood that he sees as your salvation to give you another. Again who denies the blood of the cross is it God who leads you to works of self salvation or is it you who doesn't believe? God knows fully well that Jesus of Nazareth saved you at the cross,he will not deny his sons blood.

You ask God to count your works as your salvation. You say "if I say this it is equal to salvation",the things you do you believe they are the work unto salvation. The whole while the work is done already by Christ and you do not believe it. There are only those two things to ponder one is a spirit of peace,the other a strong delusion. I cannot repent of being saved by Christ and return to the land of the dead.

God's Truth
October 10th, 2015, 06:57 AM
I don't "play Christian"

It is called obeying and living.

God's Truth
October 10th, 2015, 07:35 AM
lol,and see many years ago I was once just like you. I also believed in salvation by works.
You might have believed it, but you did not obey it. If you would have obeyed it, then you would know the power in obeying His Word.


I didn't see that the very thing that I was doing was denying the blood of the cross.
I don’t think you know what the blood of the cross means.
I want to tell you what it means.
It means the sins you confess and repent of doing…you believe his blood cleans you from them.


Yes the words Jesus is your Savior,Jesus is the Christ are the words I said,but there was no proof I believed it if you examined my works.
You see here, you admit you did not obey.We have to do more than just believe we have to obey---we have to actually obey!



I said this over and over to all who ventured into my path. You remind me of that man I once knew. I by the time the internet came about understood different,I knew that I was not mine own Savior.

I say you were saved by the blood of the cross at Calvary. You say when I say it to you "no way!". Years ago I pondered if there were any who experienced this conversion to Christ while chatting back and forth in a chat room. I have seen some few who I thought saw the truth.but as I watched them closer they descended back to salvation by works,so it's rare at best.
If you do not obey Jesus, then you have no Spirit and no life.
If you are not obeying Jesus, then what in the world are you doing with your life?



There are not but the two. There is the Holy Spirit,and there is the UN-holy spirit. One see's these that were made clean by the cross "clean",and the other see's the same as "UN-clean". Those who see that the cross saved them and made them clean have the Holy Spirit,the other seeing these left unsaved the UN-holy spirit and are anti-Christ.
Again, from what do you think you were made clean?
We are made clean from the sins we did, the sins we repented of doing. If you are still doing the same sins, then you are not living through the Spirit, and the Spirit is not living through you.


lol, remember that it was once said Acts 10:14-15 KJV common,unclean and remember that if God sees these as clean and not common who is a man who sees them unclean? Every person who believes these as unclean are thrust into salvation by works. Every person who believes that they were saved by the cross are not and are then at rest from their works.
When God sees the person as clean, it is BECAUSE THEY CAME TO THAT GRACE BY BELIEF THAT JESUS’ blood cleaned them from the sins they committed.
NO ONE is cleaned until they come to God through Jesus and obey him. They must repent of their sins.
The BIBLE says we have ACCESS to that grace of God…we have ACCESS to being saved…we have access by having FAITH that Jesus’ blood really cleans us of the sins we REPENT OF DOING.

Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

After God said what He does in Acts 10:14-15 to Peter about don’t call anything unclean that He has made clean---that is about when GOD MAKES someone clean. The person is not made clean until they personally come to God and repent of their sins.
Think about it some more. Remember when Peter went to Cornelius and his whole household? They were righteous and God fearing Gentiles.
God accepted Cornelius and all the people there because they were God fearing and righteous. Do you think God calls someone clean who is disobedient and one who does not repent of their sins and are cleaned by the blood of Jesus?
Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
35 but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.

So you see, Cornelius and his whole household already believed in God and Jesus.
Now read what Peter says next:

36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
37 You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached--
38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
39 "We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree,
40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.
41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen--by us who ateand drank with him after he rose from the dead.
42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.
43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."


Did you read that?
Peter says YOU KNOW THE MESSAGE…What message? THE MESSAGE THAT SAVES! What is the message that saves? The message that saves is we must believe in Jesus for the FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS.
How do you receive forgiveness?
We receive forgiveness by being sorry for our sins and REPENTING OF THEM.
If you are not sorry for your sins and do not repent of them, tell me why you should receive forgiveness?



Beg Christ to save you,he will not deny his own blood that he sees as your salvation to give you another.
Jesus Christ himself saved me. I have a powerful testimony.
I believed in God and Jesus my whole life, since I was a small child, but God did not save me until I started to obey Him.


Again who denies the blood of thew cross is it God who leads you to works of self salvation or is it you who doesn't believe? God knows fully well that Jesus of Nazareth saved you at the cross,he will not deny his sons blood.
You are hindered by false teachers.



You ask God to count your works as your salvation.
Paul said no works. Paul did not say no obey.
You misunderstand Paul, a Pharisee, who new for hundreds of years the works the Jews used to have to do just to be made clean to go to the temple just to worship God. God’s Spirit was in the temple. God was among the people who cleaned themselves with the ceremonial works.
Those are the works that no longer save. We no longer have to clean ourselves because it is faith in Jesus’ blood that cleans us. That does NOT MEAN WE NOT LONGER have to obey God.
Jesus did not die so that you no longer have to obey God. God did not nail obedience to the cross.



You say "if I say this it is equal to salvation",the things you do you believe they are the work unto salvation. The whole while the work is done already by Christ and you do not believe it. There are only those two things to ponder one is a spirit of peace,the other a strong delusion. I cannot repent of being saved by Christ and return to the land of the dead.
Obeying Jesus is not my works; it is doing God’s works. Jesus said he did His Father’s works, and we must do God’s will too.
It is NEVER EVER wrong to obey Jesus.
Don’t you see that you are the one who believes a delusion? Who has talked you into believing it is good and right to not obey Jesus?
That is dead faith and cannot save anyone. That dead faith is not the most important faith ever known, for it is dead. See James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

whitestone
October 10th, 2015, 07:59 AM
compare the two things we are discussing in your mind. I have company coming for the weekend so it will be Sunday late or Monday before I will get the chance to respond again.

It is one of the two either he saved us our we are to save our own selves. One is correct and so the other cannot be. You believe that you are suppose to tell me to save my self because you don't believe that I am. I am not sent to save you,the Lord was. I will confess the salvation he gave because I am not afraid that you are not saved,rather you do not believe it.

God's Truth
October 10th, 2015, 08:04 AM
compare the two things we are discussing in your mind. I have company coming for the weekend so it will be Sunday late or Monday before I will get the chance to respond again.

It is one of the two either he saved us our we are to save our own selves. One is correct and so the other cannot be. You believe that you are suppose to tell me to save my self because you don't believe that I am. I am not sent to save you,the Lord was. I will confess the salvation he gave because I am not afraid that you are not saved,rather you do not believe it.

With the measure you use it will be measured to you and more.

You did not give anytime to studying what I said.

God's Truth
October 10th, 2015, 08:10 AM
It is a sad thing in deed, when many are talked into believing that not obeying Jesus is where life is.

Robert Pate
October 10th, 2015, 03:38 PM
It is a sad thing in deed, when many are talked into believing that not obeying Jesus is where life is.

We would all like to obey Jesus. What you don't understand is that its not possible because we are all born after Adam.

Paul refers to this life as the corrupted life.

"For this corruptable (you) must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptable (you) shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall it be brought to pass the saying that is written, death is swallowed up in victory" 1 Corinthians 15:53, 54.

Puppet
October 10th, 2015, 04:19 PM
All regenerates obey Jesus.

beloved57
October 10th, 2015, 05:00 PM
We would all like to obey Jesus. What you don't understand is that its not possible because we are all born after Adam.

Paul refers to this life as the corrupted life.

"For this corruptable (you) must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptable (you) shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall it be brought to pass the saying that is written, death is swallowed up in victory" 1 Corinthians 15:53, 54.

You teach that men obey God with Faith while they are in the flesh!

Nanja
October 10th, 2015, 05:12 PM
All regenerates obey Jesus.


Yes, God is the first cause of our obedience to Him.

Ezek. 36:26-27
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
v.27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


The Elect are made Righteous!

Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

They have forgiveness of sins solely by their Elective Union in Christ
before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:7; 2 Tim. 1:9!

~~~~~

Robert Pate
October 10th, 2015, 09:05 PM
Yes, God is the first cause of our obedience to Him.

Ezek. 36:26-27
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you:
and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
v.27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes,
and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


The Elect are made Righteous!

Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

They have forgiveness of sins solely by their Elective Union in Christ
before the foundation of the world Eph. 1:7; 2 Tim. 1:9!

~~~~~


There is no scripture that says the elect are made righteous.

The scripture says... "Many shall be made righteous". Nothing about the elect.

There is no scripture that says anything about an "Elective Union in Christ".

You add or you subtract from God's word to try and substantiate your phony doctrine.

God's Truth
October 11th, 2015, 12:39 AM
We would all like to obey Jesus. What you don't understand is that its not possible because we are all born after Adam.

True believers are born after the Spirit. See John 3:6.



Paul refers to this life as the corrupted life.

"For this corruptable (you) must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptable (you) shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall it be brought to pass the saying that is written, death is swallowed up in victory" 1 Corinthians 15:53, 54.

That is about a flesh body that gets old and dies, then decays.

beloved57
October 11th, 2015, 01:49 AM
There is no scripture that says the elect are made righteous.

The scripture says... "Many shall be made righteous". Nothing about the elect.

There is no scripture that says anything about an "Elective Union in Christ".

You add or you subtract from God's word to try and substantiate your phony doctrine.

You don't believe or understand the scriptures!

beloved57
October 11th, 2015, 01:51 AM
True believers are born after the Spirit. See John 3:6.



That is about a flesh body that gets old and dies, then decays.

All men by nature are in the flesh and can't please God Rom 8:8 nor obey God Rom 8:7 !

God's Truth
October 11th, 2015, 11:31 AM
All men by nature are in the flesh and can't please God Rom 8:8 nor obey God Rom 8:7 !

Read this scripture carefully:

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.



That is about people who have not found God.

That is about people who have not found God, yet they have to PLEASE God with faith before He rewards them.

ttruscott
October 11th, 2015, 01:04 PM
...

Paul said to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? ( Hearing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

...

Then John the Baptist heard and believed the gospel before his birth: Luke 1:15 ...for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.

So, did he hear and accept in the womb or before the womb, that is, before he was sown into the world?

whitestone
October 11th, 2015, 03:13 PM
lol,and see many years ago I was once just like you. I also believed in salvation by works. I didn't see that the very thing that I was doing was denying the blood of the cross. Yes the words Jesus is your Savior,Jesus is the Christ are the words I said,but there was no proof I believed it if you examined my works.

I said this over and over to all who ventured into my path. You remind me of that man I once knew. I by the time the internet came about understood different,I knew that I was not mine own Savior.

I say you were saved by the blood of the cross at Calvary. You say when I say it to you "no way!". Years ago I pondered if there were any who experienced this conversion to Christ while chatting back and forth in a chat room. I have seen some few who I thought saw the truth.but as I watched them closer they descended back to salvation by works,so it's rare at best.

There are not but the two. There is the Holy Spirit,and there is the UN-holy spirit. One see's these that were made clean by the cross "clean",and the other see's the same as "UN-clean". Those who see that the cross saved them and made them clean have the Holy Spirit,the other seeing these left unsaved the UN-holy spirit and are anti-Christ.

lol, remember that it was once said Acts 10:14-15 KJV common,unclean and remember that if God sees these as clean and not common who is a man who sees them unclean? Every person who believes these as unclean are thrust into salvation by works. Every person who believes that they were saved by the cross are not and are then at rest from their works.

Beg Christ to save you,he will not deny his own blood that he sees as your salvation to give you another. Again who denies the blood of the cross is it God who leads you to works of self salvation or is it you who doesn't believe? God knows fully well that Jesus of Nazareth saved you at the cross,he will not deny his sons blood.

You ask God to count your works as your salvation. You say "if I say this it is equal to salvation",the things you do you believe they are the work unto salvation. The whole while the work is done already by Christ and you do not believe it. There are only those two things to ponder one is a spirit of peace,the other a strong delusion. I cannot repent of being saved by Christ and return to the land of the dead.

and heres what I actually said in post #149,,,

whitestone
October 11th, 2015, 03:16 PM
You might have believed it, but you did not obey it. If you would have obeyed it, then you would know the power in obeying His Word.

I don’t think you know what the blood of the cross means.
I want to tell you what it means.
It means the sins you confess and repent of doing…you believe his blood cleans you from them.

You see here, you admit you did not obey.We have to do more than just believe we have to obey---we have to actually obey!


If you do not obey Jesus, then you have no Spirit and no life.
If you are not obeying Jesus, then what in the world are you doing with your life?

Again, from what do you think you were made clean?
We are made clean from the sins we did, the sins we repented of doing. If you are still doing the same sins, then you are not living through the Spirit, and the Spirit is not living through you.

When God sees the person as clean, it is BECAUSE THEY CAME TO THAT GRACE BY BELIEF THAT JESUS’ blood cleaned them from the sins they committed.
NO ONE is cleaned until they come to God through Jesus and obey him. They must repent of their sins.
The BIBLE says we have ACCESS to that grace of God…we have ACCESS to being saved…we have access by having FAITH that Jesus’ blood really cleans us of the sins we REPENT OF DOING.

Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.

After God said what He does in Acts 10:14-15 to Peter about don’t call anything unclean that He has made clean---that is about when GOD MAKES someone clean. The person is not made clean until they personally come to God and repent of their sins.
Think about it some more. Remember when Peter went to Cornelius and his whole household? They were righteous and God fearing Gentiles.
God accepted Cornelius and all the people there because they were God fearing and righteous. Do you think God calls someone clean who is disobedient and one who does not repent of their sins and are cleaned by the blood of Jesus?
Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
35 but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.

So you see, Cornelius and his whole household already believed in God and Jesus.
Now read what Peter says next:

36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.
37 You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached--
38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
39 "We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree,
40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.
41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen--by us who ateand drank with him after he rose from the dead.
42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.
43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."


Did you read that?
Peter says YOU KNOW THE MESSAGE…What message? THE MESSAGE THAT SAVES! What is the message that saves? The message that saves is we must believe in Jesus for the FORGIVENESS OF OUR SINS.
How do you receive forgiveness?
We receive forgiveness by being sorry for our sins and REPENTING OF THEM.
If you are not sorry for your sins and do not repent of them, tell me why you should receive forgiveness?


Jesus Christ himself saved me. I have a powerful testimony.
I believed in God and Jesus my whole life, since I was a small child, but God did not save me until I started to obey Him.

You are hindered by false teachers.


Paul said no works. Paul did not say no obey.
You misunderstand Paul, a Pharisee, who new for hundreds of years the works the Jews used to have to do just to be made clean to go to the temple just to worship God. God’s Spirit was in the temple. God was among the people who cleaned themselves with the ceremonial works.
Those are the works that no longer save. We no longer have to clean ourselves because it is faith in Jesus’ blood that cleans us. That does NOT MEAN WE NOT LONGER have to obey God.
Jesus did not die so that you no longer have to obey God. God did not nail obedience to the cross.

Obeying Jesus is not my works; it is doing God’s works. Jesus said he did His Father’s works, and we must do God’s will too.
It is NEVER EVER wrong to obey Jesus.
Don’t you see that you are the one who believes a delusion? Who has talked you into believing it is good and right to not obey Jesus?
That is dead faith and cannot save anyone. That dead faith is not the most important faith ever known, for it is dead. See James 2:14, 17, 20, and 22.

hears where you rearranged it,,,see you have no proof of your works and think that none will ever read through a post to see what the posters actually said.

Robert Pate
October 11th, 2015, 03:36 PM
Then John the Baptist heard and believed the gospel before his birth: Luke 1:15 ...for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born.

So, did he hear and accept in the womb or before the womb, that is, before he was sown into the world?

John the Baptist was a prophet. He was chosen by God.

You should not compare yourself with prophets and apostles. That is not the norm for Christians.

God's Truth
October 11th, 2015, 05:29 PM
hears where you rearranged it,,,see you have no proof of your works and think that none will ever read through a post to see what the posters actually said.

I have not rearranged anything.

You do not have any other way to defend your false beliefs than with speaking falseness.

Speak to me by addressing what I said, and explain exactly what you are talking about.

whitestone
October 11th, 2015, 10:20 PM
I have not rearranged anything.

You do not have any other way to defend your false beliefs than with speaking falseness.

Speak to me by addressing what I said, and explain exactly what you are talking about.

well maybe you misunderstood what I said in post #149. You said that I admitted that I did not obey in your post.

If you believe that you are to constantly repent to be saved then do you not also agree that you also did not obey,what do you repent of?

You see if you agree that you repent to be saved then you also agree that you do not obey. If you do obey then what do you repent of? So if you believe you must repent to be saved,then you also should agree that you also have no proof of salvation by works.

You say that I admit that I did not obey as if I had obeyed then I would have saved mine own self. Though if we had have obeyed then there would have been no need for the cross since we saved our own selves by obeying.

The issue is that we did not obey. Since we did not obey and God foreknew that we would not the firstborn of creation was our Savior.

patrick jane
October 11th, 2015, 10:25 PM
well maybe you misunderstood what I said in post #149. You said that I admitted that I did not obey in your post.

If you believe that you are to constantly repent to be saved then do you not also agree that you also did not obey,what do you repent of?

You see if you agree that you repent to be saved then you also agree that you do not obey. If you do obey then what do you repent of? So if you believe you must repent to be saved,then you also should agree that you also have no proof of salvation by works.

You say that I admit that I did not obey as if I had obeyed then I would have saved mine own self. Though if we had have obeyed then there would have been no need for the cross since we saved our own selves by obeying.

The issue is that we did not obey. Since we did not obey and God foreknew that we would not the firstborn of creation was our Savior.


GT is only saved by what she does. GT is sinless because she repents and obeys all of Jesus' commands, just ask. Obeying is the most important thing to GT.

whitestone
October 11th, 2015, 10:36 PM
GT is only saved by what she does. GT is sinless because she repents and obeys all of Jesus' commands, just ask. Obeying is the most important thing to GT.


lol,,which is the confusing part if GT actually obeys then what does he repent of,,, obeying?

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 12:23 AM
well maybe you misunderstood what I said in post #149. You said that I admitted that I did not obey in your post.

If you believe that you are to constantly repent to be saved then do you not also agree that you also did not obey,what do you repent of?
You have to repent of your sins when you want to be saved; and, after you are saved, you are not to sin, but if you do, then you are to repent.



You see if you agree that you repent to be saved then you also agree that you do not obey.
Everyone has sinned in life.
You can have all your sins washed away and be born again with a new life without sins. You will be starting over, but this time you will be given the Holy Spirit to help you.



If you do obey then what do you repent of?
Everyone has sinned and when they want to be saved, they repent of their sins.

After you are saved, IF YOU SIN, then you repent of it.




So if you believe you must repent to be saved,then you also should agree that you also have no proof of salvation by works.

I have no idea what you are trying to say.



You say that I admit that I did not obey as if I had obeyed then I would have saved mine own self.

If you obey Jesus and repent as Jesus says to do, then he will take you to the Father. Jesus put us in him so we can be in the Father.



Though if we had have obeyed then there would have been no need for the cross since we saved our own selves by obeying.
Even if you obeyed much in your life, there are times you might have sinned. Even if you obeyed God blamelessly, Jesus would still of had to die for us. Jesus cleans us, and that is when he reconciles us to God, and we become the temple of the Living God.



The issue is that we did not obey. Since we did not obey and God foreknew that we would not the firstborn of creation was our Savior.

I hope you understand now.

patrick jane
October 12th, 2015, 12:28 AM
lol,,which is the confusing part if GT actually obeys then what does he repent of,,, obeying?


I suppose even the Great Obeyer falters from time to time, maybe one sin per month.

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 12:28 AM
GT is only saved by what she does. GT is sinless because she repents and obeys all of Jesus' commands, just ask. Obeying is the most important thing to GT.

If you are not obeying, what in the world are you doing and how is that salvation?

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 12:29 AM
lol,,which is the confusing part if GT actually obeys then what does he repent of,,, obeying?

Don't you know that if a saved person sins, they are to repent of their sin?

patrick jane
October 12th, 2015, 12:32 AM
If you are not obeying, what in the world are you doing and how is that salvation?

Romans 5:6 KJV - Romans 6:7 KJV -

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 12:52 AM
Romans 5:6 KJV -
Jesus died for ungodly people. Jesus did not make the ungodly Gentiles get circumcised.




Romans 6:7 KJV -

We repent of sins and when we are saved we stop sinning.

patrick jane
October 12th, 2015, 12:52 AM
Jesus died for ungodly people. Jesus did not make the ungodly Gentiles get circumcised.



We repent of sins and when we are saved we stop sinning.

Why can't you stop sinning GT ?

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 12:53 AM
Why can't you stop sinning GT ?

Do you sin but think Jesus died so that you can say you do not?

whitestone
October 12th, 2015, 04:59 AM
God does not zap people with the Holy Spirit and make them Christians as Calvinist believe. Nor does God give his Holy Spirit to those who do good works such as Catholics.

Paul said to the Galatians, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (Because you did something) or by the hearing of faith? ( Hearing the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who hear and believe the Gospel.

The minute that one hears and believes the Gospel God seals them with the Holy Spirit and places them "In Christ".

"In whom you also trusted after you had heard the word of truth, The Gospel of your salvation: in whom after that you believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Ephesians 1:13.

God only gives his Holy Spirit to those whom he sees as perfect and complete "In Christ", Colossians 2:10.

The Gospel is the entrance into eternal life. God's mark of ownership is the Holy Spirit. In the judgment you will be identified by the Holy Spirit. If you are void of the Holy Spirit you are lost.

WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?

Good works are not evidence that one is indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Many are trying to work their way into heaven by their works or by being good enough.

Those that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit testify of Christ, John 15:26. They teach and preach the Gospel and are witnesses for Christ in what they say, do and believe. They are Christians.

They do not speak of themselves, John 16:13. Religious people are always talking about themselves and their religion. The Gospel is not about us, the Gospel is about Jesus Christ.

They glorify Jesus Christ, John 16:14. Christ is glorified when the Gospel is preached. The religious glorify themselves. Religion is subjective, The Gospel of Jesus Christ is objective (outside of us).


indeed,indeed R.P.,,,the great obeyer's and repenter's only need repent if they "do not obey",,if they obey then they have no need to repent(it is their foggy grey area).

I've never thought one might receive the Holy Spirit during a discussion in a forum online. Maybe it is possible,all is possible with God I've just never been convinced I've witnessed it yet. It is an difficult thing to explain to someone online,but maybe.

one thing is lacking,that is for them to acknowledge that our Savior was the first born of all creation Colossians 1:15 KJV and that he was created because they would never be able to completely obey and would forever need to repent.

In Arron from generation to generation as one died another was made High priest to God for not obeying and having the perpetual need to repent. Yet we have an Savior,once offered and without end. They have this one awakening in their minds,as you said that condition before receiving the Holy Ghost they must confess who is the Savior and who is not.

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 08:01 AM
Do you sin but think Jesus died so that you can say you do not?


Your problem is that you don't understand the Gospel.

In the Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. Romans 3:26.

He justifies them without works or obedience to the law.

beloved57
October 12th, 2015, 08:30 AM
Your problem is that you don't understand the Gospel.

In the Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. Romans 3:26.

He justifies them without works or obedience to the law.

Both of you have the same problem, Salvation by works or by performing a condition, either way you both believe man must DO something !

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 08:34 AM
Both of you have the same problem, Salvation by works or by performing a condition, either way you both believe man must DO something !


If you do not respond to the Gospel with love and thanksgiving you will perish.

whitestone
October 12th, 2015, 08:57 AM
which "two"?,,,"condition for receiving the Holy Ghost" and "saved By the Savior on the cross" are two different things one is when Jesus actually saved us and the other is when we believed it and were sealed?

Maybe you didn't have me in mind among the two,lol but none receive the Holy Ghost unless they believed that he saved them. So it is possible for them to be saved and not believe it.

Not believing it set's them into a spirit in terror in which they make a list and check it twice,of fear,and doubt. but to those who believe on it all doubt is removed and where there were no confidence there then is confidence.

I do not behold anyone as if not saved by Christ on the cross. I do behold some who do not believe that they are saved and are in agony. If at any time they behold their salvation the agony will perish and they will rest from their works. I do not say to them "have you been saved yet?",,I tell them the good news,"that they are".

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:13 AM
Your problem is that you don't understand the Gospel.

In the Gospel Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5. Romans 3:26.

He justifies them without works or obedience to the law.

God justifies us by faith in Jesus' blood, but nowhere anywhere does it say without any obedience. That is a false doctrine.

steko
October 12th, 2015, 10:25 AM
God justifies us by faith in Jesus' blood, but nowhere anywhere does it say without any obedience. That is a false doctrine.

Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.- ESV

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:34 AM
which "two"?,,,"condition for receiving the Holy Ghost" and "saved By the Savior on the cross" are two different things one is when Jesus actually saved us and the other is when we believed it and were sealed?
The Bible plainly says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey.

You have to believe what is written.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."




Maybe you didn't have me in mind among the two,lol but none receive the Holy Ghost unless they believed that he saved them. So it is possible for them to be saved and not believe it.

Not believing it set's them into a spirit in terror in which they make a list and check it twice,of fear,and doubt. but to those who believe on it all doubt is removed and where there were no confidence there then is confidence.

I do not behold anyone as if not saved by Christ on the cross. I do behold some who do not believe that they are saved and are in agony. If at any time they behold their salvation the agony will perish and they will rest from their works. I do not say to them "have you been saved yet?",,I tell them the good news,"that they are".

No one is saved without first believing and obeying.

The good news is not that unbelieving and unrepentant sinners are saved.

Jesus says if you don't believe you will die in your sins; and repent or perish.

Do you recognize the words of God?

steko
October 12th, 2015, 10:38 AM
The Bible plainly says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey.

You have to believe what is written.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."



No one is saved without first believing and obeying.

The good news is not that unbelieving and unrepentant sinners are saved.

Jesus says if you don't believe you will die in your sins; and repent or perish.

Do you recognize the words of God?


Have you climbed the Scala Sancta on your knees, yet?

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:42 AM
Eph 1:13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

What is the word of truth? The word of truth is that if you obey Jesus, and confess and repent of your sins, Jesus will wash your sins away.

The gospel is for the God fearing people.


Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.


Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.- ESV


The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey.

If anyone wants to be saved, all they have to do is what Jesus says. He is the Way.

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:43 AM
Have you climbed the Scala Sancta on your knees, yet?

Where in the Bible does God's Word say to do such a thing? Do you know what happened to Aaron's sons?

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:44 AM
Our wonderful Lord and Creator came to earth to tell us exactly what we have to do to be saved; he showed us the Way.

SaulToPaul
October 12th, 2015, 10:46 AM
The gospel is for the God fearing people.




Romans 5:6 (KJV)

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:50 AM
Romans 5:6 (KJV)

You cannot nullify scripture with scripture. The gospel is for God fearing people. That is to whom the gospel is given. Don't you believe God's Word?

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:51 AM
STP, Don't you believe Paul? Lolololol

SaulToPaul
October 12th, 2015, 10:52 AM
STP, Don't you believe Paul? Lolololol

Romans 5:6 (KJV)

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:52 AM
If someone is not yet saved, obey God's Word and fear God, for it is the beginning of wisdom.

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:54 AM
Romans 5:6 (KJV)

The ungodly were those who did not get circumcised and do the other cleaning works; that was the Gentiles.

Why are you hiding from Paul's words? Please stop trying to nullify what Paul says.

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

SaulToPaul
October 12th, 2015, 10:55 AM
The ungodly were those who did not get circumcised and do the other cleaning works; that was the Gentiles.

Why are you hiding from Paul's words? Please stop trying to nullify what Paul says.

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Romans 5:6 (KJV)

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 10:57 AM
Romans 5:6 (KJV)

The Gentiles were ungodly because they did not do the works of cleaning themselves. Just as Paul says, they had to fear God, for that is to whom the message was given.

SaulToPaul
October 12th, 2015, 12:37 PM
The Gentiles were ungodly because they did not do the works of cleaning themselves. Just as Paul says, they had to fear God, for that is to whom the message was given.

Romans 5:6 (KJV)

Paul said "we"

whitestone
October 12th, 2015, 12:40 PM
The Bible plainly says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey.

You have to believe what is written.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."



No one is saved without first believing and obeying.

The good news is not that unbelieving and unrepentant sinners are saved.

Jesus says if you don't believe you will die in your sins; and repent or perish.

Do you recognize the words of God?



The Bible plainly says the Holy Spirit is given to those who obey.

You have to believe what is written.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."



No one is saved without first believing and obeying.

The good news is not that unbelieving and unrepentant sinners are saved.

Jesus says if you don't believe you will die in your sins; and repent or perish.

Do you recognize the words of God?

are you quite sure thats what it says? I notice that you reword what is said in Acts 5:32 KJV to make it say that the Holy Ghost is given to those who "obey"

In both the NKJV and the KJV the words that appear in italics were not in the original manuscripts and if we look very close at the details the words "so is" are in italics,and then were added. Removed they are saying that they were witnesses of the Holy Ghost and not that the Holy Ghost was the witness.

In acts 2 and in acts 4:31 KJV they were witnesses to the Holy Ghost so it makes sense that they would say that they were witnesses of these things i.e. Acts 5:29-32 KJV and why is in Acts 4 and 5 they are being both ask in whose name and authority they were speaking.

They were then told not to speak in the name of Jesus,of his Resurrection,that he was the savior ect. and then in the end they said that they should not obey men but instead God and why was that they were witnesses to his DBR and "the Holy Ghost".

This word is used only 4 times http://biblehub.com/greek/3980.htm yet this is the only one time in which you bring this point up. The word repentance is also used together with forgiveness of sins.

In Genesis 6:6 KJV "and it repented the Lord the he had made..." so he that made the earth Colossians 1:16 KJV and who is the image of the invisible God Colossians 1:15 KJV repented that he had made the earth. But this repentance of the creator is not as if he was asking the invisible God Genesis 6:5 KJV for "forgiveness" unless we suppose our own creator subject to sin in our creation.

I don't suppose any do think that,that the Son of God who is created an Savior need to repent to be saved,if so and he is the only Savior who will save him?

Obey and repent are words scattered throughout many books in our bible and are translated by translators in the context of the topic involved where these words exist. Again also are these words that the translators added to make the sentence flow to conform to their idea of what is meant.

At times bearing in mind those italics were added would change the meaning of the same text. In this case if they are removed the apostles are stating "they were witnesses to the Holy Ghost" if the words in italics are left in the Holy Ghost is the one "bearing witness" ,two different ownership's.

But what in the context of Acts 4,5 what were they being told to disobey was it not that Jesus of Nazareth was the very Messiah?

beloved57
October 12th, 2015, 01:31 PM
If you do not respond to the Gospel with love and thanksgiving you will perish.

Yall both need to embrace one another as both of you are in alliance against Salvation by the Grace of God, and teach that man must perform one way or the other before God saves him !

beloved57
October 12th, 2015, 01:32 PM
God justifies us by faith in Jesus' blood, but nowhere anywhere does it say without any obedience. That is a false doctrine.

I'm Justified by Christ's Obedience alone, for it made me Righteous Rom 5:19 which is Justification !

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 01:37 PM
I'm Justified by Christ's Obedience alone, for it made me Righteous Rom 5:19 which is Justification !

You can quote scripture all that you want, but if you don't come to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him and him alone, you will perish.

whitestone
October 12th, 2015, 01:59 PM
I'm Justified by Christ's Obedience alone, for it made me Righteous Rom 5:19 which is Justification !

and as for me, not one hair on my head can I change nor could I have myself grow an inch taller no more than I could save mine own self. My Savior preexisted Adam my forefather and was born into the world to preform the act of my salvation. He is my husband I am flesh of his flesh bone of his bone. His name is written in the book of life and I being his wife am also,that is "and your whole household".,,But whose obedience, is it not his?

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 06:34 PM
Romans 5:6 (KJV)

Paul said "we"


1 Corinthians 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 06:57 PM
are you quite sure thats what it says? I notice that you reword what is said in Acts 5:32 KJV to make it say that the Holy Ghost is given to those who "obey"
That is what it says.



In both the NKJV and the KJV the words that appear in italics were not in the original manuscripts and if we look very close at the details the words "so is" are in italics,and then were added. Removed they are saying that they were witnesses of the Holy Ghost and not that the Holy Ghost was the witness.
You speak nonsense that does not matter.



In acts 2 and in acts 4:31 KJV they were witnesses to the Holy Ghost so it makes sense that they would say that they were witnesses of these things i.e. Acts 5:29-32 KJV and why is in Acts 4 and 5 they are being both ask in whose name and authority they were speaking.

Just concentrate on the part that says the Holy Spirit given to those who obey.



They were then told not to speak in the name of Jesus,of his Resurrection,that he was the savior ect. and then in the end they said that they should not obey men but instead God and why was that they were witnesses to his DBR and "the Holy Ghost".

This word is used only 4 times http://biblehub.com/greek/3980.htm yet this is the only one time in which you bring this point up. The word repentance is also used together with forgiveness of sins.

In Genesis 6:6 KJV "and it repented the Lord the he had made..." so he that made the earth Colossians 1:16 KJV and who is the image of the invisible God Colossians 1:15 KJV repented that he had made the earth. But this repentance of the creator is not as if he was asking the invisible God Genesis 6:5 KJV for "forgiveness" unless we suppose our own creator subject to sin in our creation.

I don't suppose any do think that,that the Son of God who is created an Savior need to repent to be saved,if so and he is the only Savior who will save him?

Obey and repent are words scattered throughout many books in our bible and are translated by translators in the context of the topic involved where these words exist. Again also are these words that the translators added to make the sentence flow to conform to their idea of what is meant.

At times bearing in mind those italics were added would change the meaning of the same text. In this case if they are removed the apostles are stating "they were witnesses to the Holy Ghost" if the words in italics are left in the Holy Ghost is the one "bearing witness" ,two different ownership's.

But what in the context of Acts 4,5 what were they being told to disobey was it not that Jesus of Nazareth was the very Messiah?

I have no idea what you are rambling on about.

God's Truth
October 12th, 2015, 07:05 PM
I'm Justified by Christ's Obedience alone, for it made me Righteous Rom 5:19 which is Justification !

Jesus' blood cleans you without you also having to clean yourself by getting circumcised and obeying special days, etc. it does not mean we are justified by not obeying. That is insanity.

Robert Pate
October 12th, 2015, 08:56 PM
Jesus' blood cleans you without you also having to clean yourself by getting circumcised and obeying special days, etc. it does not mean we are justified by not obeying. That is insanity.

You are a first class Judaizer, just like James.

A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:20, 21.

Jesus is the end of the law of Moses for everyone that believes, Romans 10:4.

You are trying to do in your flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ.

ttruscott
October 12th, 2015, 09:10 PM
John the Baptist was a prophet. He was chosen by God.

Without following the protocol you say is necessary. Obviously it is not.


You should not compare yourself with prophets and apostles. That is not the norm for Christians.


I did not compare myself with prophets and apostles and your false accusation opens your character to everyone.

beloved57
October 12th, 2015, 11:02 PM
You are a first class Judaizer, just like James.

A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:20, 21.

Jesus is the end of the law of Moses for everyone that believes, Romans 10:4.

You are trying to do in your flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ.

You both teach salvation by works, by what a person does!

whitestone
October 12th, 2015, 11:03 PM
That is what it says.


You speak nonsense that does not matter.



Just concentrate on the part that says the Holy Spirit given to those who obey.



I have no idea what you are rambling on about.


the italics, well the addition of italicized words into all English translations faced the same problem that exist in any translation of language.

This as early as 100 years ago was common knowledge to most that the words that were in italics were added to correct the difference between the idioms between Greek/Hebrew and English.

In older English translations of the bible the translators gave an explanation of this in either the "preface" or in the section "translators to the reader" stating that the words in italics were (added) but in most modern translations it was omitted (believed to be common knowledge) but as it seems it is not commonly understood in these modern times.

In most cases these additions to the original text seem to render the same meaning,but in some cases if you read the same scripture and omit them the meaning completely changes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version

whitestone
October 13th, 2015, 07:25 AM
You both teach salvation by works, by what a person does!


Add (your self) to the list and say,,,"we all three teach salvation by works and point out the list of thing's they do to be saved."

Put your on your list,,, and say "This is the list of things we do (not do) to so that we can say we are saved because we do not do them ..."


Both of them have been breaking one of the things you have on your list of "things (not to do) to work your way to Heaven"

lol, I get it b57 on your list what are all of the things you don't do to earn your way into heaven?

beloved57
October 13th, 2015, 07:44 AM
whitestone


lol, I get it b57 on your list what are all of the things you don't do to earn your way into heaven?


See My threads !

whitestone
October 13th, 2015, 07:50 AM
whitestone



See My threads !

why will they contradict the things you've already posted on this thread? Shouldn't we just go back through this thread and count how many times you've posted "you both teach salvation by works"?

if you don't have a list of things not to do to be saved,why did you keep pointing out that they kept breaking one of the things on your list?,,,,,your both breaking one of my rules,lol,,,,your works speak louder than your words.

beloved57
October 13th, 2015, 08:03 AM
why will they contradict the things you've already posted on this thread? Shouldn't we just go back through this thread and count how many times you've posted "you both teach salvation by works"?

if you don't have a list of things not to do to be saved,why did you keep pointing out that they kept breaking one of the things on your list?,,,,,your both breaking one of my rules,lol,,,,your works speak louder than your words.

Read my threads and find out!

God's Truth
October 13th, 2015, 09:35 AM
You are a first class Judaizer, just like James.

A Judaizer is one that believes in Jesus, but also believes that you must keep the law of Moses, Acts 15:20, 21.

Jesus is the end of the law of Moses for everyone that believes, Romans 10:4.

You are trying to do in your flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ.

You are ridiculous, for a Judaizer is one that tried to do in the flesh what Jesus has already done and that is to clean us. The ceremonial works are the works that clean, and those ceremonial works are circumcision, a dietary law, various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals.

I do not tell anyone to do those works.

Robert Pate
October 13th, 2015, 09:42 AM
You are ridiculous, for a Judaizer is one that tried to do in the flesh what Jesus has already done and that is to clean us. The ceremonial works are the works that clean, and those ceremonial works are circumcision, a dietary law, various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals.

I do not tell anyone to do those works.

There is only one law. It is called "The Law of Moses" in the law of Moses there are thousands of things that you must do to keep it.

James said that if you fail in one point of the law you have failed the whole thing, James 2:10.

God's Truth
October 13th, 2015, 09:48 AM
the italics, well the addition of italicized words into all English translations faced the same problem that exist in any translation of language.

This as early as 100 years ago was common knowledge to most that the words that were in italics were added to correct the difference between the idioms between Greek/Hebrew and English.

In older English translations of the bible the translators gave an explanation of this in either the "preface" or in the section "translators to the reader" stating that the words in italics were (added) but in most modern translations it was omitted (believed to be common knowledge) but as it seems it is not commonly understood in these modern times.

In most cases these additions to the original text seem to render the same meaning,but in some cases if you read the same scripture and omit them the meaning completely changes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version

Are you kidding? I know what the italics mean in the King James Version.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.


Now tell me how you think that scripture means something else because of an italicized 'is'.

That scripture says that Holy Spirit is given to those who obey.

That means you were not given the Holy Spirit by merely believing.

God's Truth
October 13th, 2015, 09:50 AM
There is only one law. It is called "The Law of Moses" in the law of Moses there are thousands of things that you must do to keep it.

James said that if you fail in one point of the law you have failed the whole thing, James 2:10.

James was NOT speaking of the old law WITH THE CEREMONIAL WORKS. James was speaking of the Royal Law of love your neighbor as yourself!