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northwye
September 28th, 2015, 11:41 AM
Christ, the Logos, In John 1; 1 and Also In Hebrews 4: 12-13

Jesus is the Word of God - but the understanding of this even in John 1:1, and especially in Hebrews 4: 12-13, is not found in many Christians now.

John 1: 1 ." εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος" "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Hebrews 4:12-13:
ζων γαρ ο λογος του θεου και ενεργης και τομωτερος υπερ πασαν μαχαιραν διστομον και διικνουμενος αχρι μερισμου ψυχης τε και πνευματος αρμων τε και μυελων και κριτικος ενθυμησεων και εννοιων καρδιας και ουκ εστιν κτισις αφανης ενωπιον αυτου παντα δε γυμνα και τετραχηλισμενα τοις οφθαλμοις αυτου προς ον ημιν ο λογος

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4: 12-13

λογος is the word of God in John 1: 1 and in Hebrews 4: 12-13, and in both texts λογος. or logos.is Jesus Christ.

The literalist bias given to many in the present day denominations by disensationalism leads church people to only see "word" from logos in Hebrews 4: 12-13 as literally the Bible, and not as Jesus himself.

The literalist bias in interpreting logos in Hebrews as the Bible is similar to the bias which leads many in the dispensationalist churches to go off into what Paul calls fables in I Timothy 1: 4 and in II Timothy 4: 4 by seeing the man of sin and the temple in II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 as a single individual, probably the one man anti-Christ, and the temple as a literal rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

The literal mind set and the theology behind that literal way of viewing scripture prevents the dispensationalist church people from understanding that Paul, having already said that the temple of God is now "ye," those who are born again in Jesus Christ, means that the man of sin occupies these believers when the falling away occurs. (see I Corinthians 3: 16-17 and I Corinthians 6: 19, as well as Stephen's statement in Acts 7: 48. God does not dwell in temples made by men but in those who are born again in Jesus Christ. John 3: 1-6). Those who are born again are beginning to have Christ in them (Galatians 4:19, Philippians 2:5, Colossians 1: 27, "...what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.")

Jesus the logos - the full revelation and manifestation of God's creative spiritual power - which many Old Testament prophets had foretold was now here on earth walking around in the form of a man. That Jesus, called by John the Logos, would enter himself into those he chose as his own. Thats what Paul is talking about in Colossians 1: 27, the hope of realizing the full glory of Christ in you.

jamie
September 28th, 2015, 11:57 AM
That Jesus, called by John the Logos, would enter himself into those he chose as his own.


Jesus only enters into the mind of those the Father gives to him.

1Mind1Spirit
September 28th, 2015, 12:23 PM
Jesus only enters into the mind of those the Father gives to him.

Sure.

Jesus always chooses what pleases God. :)

jamie
September 28th, 2015, 03:03 PM
Sure.

Jesus always chooses what pleases God. :)


Jesus said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father." (John 6:65 NKJV)

The Father decides to whom Christ will be offered. It is he who initiates salvation.

northwye
September 28th, 2015, 07:05 PM
""That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world." John 17 21-24

The Father and Son are in complete agreement on who is to be called.

"I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Luke 5 32

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Romans 8 28-30

"That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory." I Thessalonians 2 12

"For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness." I Thessalonians 4 7

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." I Thessalonians 5 23-24

"...because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth: whereunto he called you by our gospel..." II Thessalonians 2 13-14

"...but be thou partakers of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace..." II Timothy 1 8-9

God calls those he wants to salvation. And I Peter 5 10 is more explicit in saying that God calls us by Christ Jesus. "But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a little while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you." I Peter 5 10 is a great and inspiring verse on this topic.

keypurr
September 28th, 2015, 07:19 PM
Jesus is. The man that was given the logos.
The logos spoke through Jesus.
The logos became flesh in Jesus.
The logos is the spiritual son of God.

That is what I see.

glorydaz
September 28th, 2015, 07:20 PM
Christ, the Logos, In John 1; 1 and Also In Hebrews 4: 12-13

Jesus is the Word of God - but the understanding of this even in John 1:1, and especially in Hebrews 4: 12-13, is not found in many Christians now.

John 1: 1 ." εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος" "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Hebrews 4:12-13:
ζων γαρ ο λογος του θεου και ενεργης και τομωτερος υπερ πασαν μαχαιραν διστομον και διικνουμενος αχρι μερισμου ψυχης τε και πνευματος αρμων τε και μυελων και κριτικος ενθυμησεων και εννοιων καρδιας και ουκ εστιν κτισις αφανης ενωπιον αυτου παντα δε γυμνα και τετραχηλισμενα τοις οφθαλμοις αυτου προς ον ημιν ο λογος

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4: 12-13

λογος is the word of God in John 1: 1 and in Hebrews 4: 12-13, and in both texts λογος. or logos.is Jesus Christ.

The literalist bias given to many in the present day denominations by disensationalism leads church people to only see "word" from logos in Hebrews 4: 12-13 as literally the Bible, and not as Jesus himself.

The literalist bias in interpreting logos in Hebrews as the Bible is similar to the bias which leads many in the dispensationalist churches to go off into what Paul calls fables in I Timothy 1: 4 and in II Timothy 4: 4 by seeing the man of sin and the temple in II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 as a single individual, probably the one man anti-Christ, and the temple as a literal rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

The literal mind set and the theology behind that literal way of viewing scripture prevents the dispensationalist church people from understanding that Paul, having already said that the temple of God is now "ye," those who are born again in Jesus Christ, means that the man of sin occupies these believers when the falling away occurs. (see I Corinthians 3: 16-17 and I Corinthians 6: 19, as well as Stephen's statement in Acts 7: 48. God does not dwell in temples made by men but in those who are born again in Jesus Christ. John 3: 1-6). Those who are born again are beginning to have Christ in them (Galatians 4:19, Philippians 2:5, Colossians 1: 27, "...what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.")

Jesus the logos - the full revelation and manifestation of God's creative spiritual power - which many Old Testament prophets had foretold was now here on earth walking around in the form of a man. That Jesus, called by John the Logos, would enter himself into those he chose as his own. Thats what Paul is talking about in Colossians 1: 27, the hope of realizing the full glory of Christ in you.

I'm thinking you've made some mighty big leaps. Where will you put this? :think:


Eph. 6:13-17
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

northwye
September 29th, 2015, 07:01 AM
In Ephesians 6: 17 "...the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God," word is not from logos, but from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 4487, rhema, "an utterance, by implication, a matter or topic, saying, word."

Logos in Strong's is number 3056, "something said, a topic of discourse,, the Divine expression, i.e. Christ..."

John in John 1: 1 uses logos, from Greek philosophy, in saying "In the beginning was the logos, and the logos was with God, and the logos was God." Reading on in the first Chapter of John, you can see that he refers to Jesus Christ as the logos.

In Greek philosophy logos was the principle behind creation and the creatures in creation, and the principle through which the human mind can know something of God. Logos was the spiritual power behind creation and also the principle by which man can know a little of God. John redefined logos and made the word mean Christ himself as the creative principle, cause or first principle of all creation. Ever part of creation was created by the logos, all life is from the logos ("I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10: 10). And the logos shines into darkness, "which lighteth ever man that cometh into the world." John 1: 9.

"But as many as received him,to them gave he power to become sons of God..." John 1: 12

John the Fisherman used a term from Greek philosophy and gave it a spiritually inspiring meaning.

Like many other texts in scripture, John 1: 1-18, and the logos, have meanings which are more subtle than can be understood by the mind set of those taught literalism and the letter of scripture - "which killeth" instead of the spirit which gives life (II Corinthians 2: 6) - by the dominant theology in the collective called the church today.

meshak
September 29th, 2015, 09:53 AM
Sure.

Jesus always chooses what pleases God. :)

yes.

popsthebuilder
September 29th, 2015, 09:24 PM
I'm thinking you've made some mighty big leaps. Where will you put this? :think:


Eph. 6:13-17
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
No sin whatsoever. That is the full armor of God for those that have been chosen.

patrick jane
September 29th, 2015, 09:59 PM
Revelation 19:13 KJV

Revelation 19:15 KJV -

intojoy
September 30th, 2015, 12:27 AM
Christ, the Logos, In John 1; 1 and Also In Hebrews 4: 12-13

Jesus is the Word of God - but the understanding of this even in John 1:1, and especially in Hebrews 4: 12-13, is not found in many Christians now.

John 1: 1 ." εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος" "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Hebrews 4:12-13:
ζων γαρ ο λογος του θεου και ενεργης και τομωτερος υπερ πασαν μαχαιραν διστομον και διικνουμενος αχρι μερισμου ψυχης τε και πνευματος αρμων τε και μυελων και κριτικος ενθυμησεων και εννοιων καρδιας και ουκ εστιν κτισις αφανης ενωπιον αυτου παντα δε γυμνα και τετραχηλισμενα τοις οφθαλμοις αυτου προς ον ημιν ο λογος

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4: 12-13

λογος is the word of God in John 1: 1 and in Hebrews 4: 12-13, and in both texts λογος. or logos.is Jesus Christ.

The literalist bias given to many in the present day denominations by disensationalism leads church people to only see "word" from logos in Hebrews 4: 12-13 as literally the Bible, and not as Jesus himself.

The literalist bias in interpreting logos in Hebrews as the Bible is similar to the bias which leads many in the dispensationalist churches to go off into what Paul calls fables in I Timothy 1: 4 and in II Timothy 4: 4 by seeing the man of sin and the temple in II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 as a single individual, probably the one man anti-Christ, and the temple as a literal rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

The literal mind set and the theology behind that literal way of viewing scripture prevents the dispensationalist church people from understanding that Paul, having already said that the temple of God is now "ye," those who are born again in Jesus Christ, means that the man of sin occupies these believers when the falling away occurs. (see I Corinthians 3: 16-17 and I Corinthians 6: 19, as well as Stephen's statement in Acts 7: 48. God does not dwell in temples made by men but in those who are born again in Jesus Christ. John 3: 1-6). Those who are born again are beginning to have Christ in them (Galatians 4:19, Philippians 2:5, Colossians 1: 27, "...what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.")

Jesus the logos - the full revelation and manifestation of God's creative spiritual power - which many Old Testament prophets had foretold was now here on earth walking around in the form of a man. That Jesus, called by John the Logos, would enter himself into those he chose as his own. Thats what Paul is talking about in Colossians 1: 27, the hope of realizing the full glory of Christ in you.

I'm in.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98954

lukecash12
September 30th, 2015, 01:57 AM
Christ, the Logos, In John 1; 1 and Also In Hebrews 4: 12-13

Jesus is the Word of God - but the understanding of this even in John 1:1, and especially in Hebrews 4: 12-13, is not found in many Christians now.

John 1: 1 ." εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος" "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Hebrews 4:12-13:
ζων γαρ ο λογος του θεου και ενεργης και τομωτερος υπερ πασαν μαχαιραν διστομον και διικνουμενος αχρι μερισμου ψυχης τε και πνευματος αρμων τε και μυελων και κριτικος ενθυμησεων και εννοιων καρδιας και ουκ εστιν κτισις αφανης ενωπιον αυτου παντα δε γυμνα και τετραχηλισμενα τοις οφθαλμοις αυτου προς ον ημιν ο λογος

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4: 12-13

λογος is the word of God in John 1: 1 and in Hebrews 4: 12-13, and in both texts λογος. or logos.is Jesus Christ.

The literalist bias given to many in the present day denominations by disensationalism leads church people to only see "word" from logos in Hebrews 4: 12-13 as literally the Bible, and not as Jesus himself.

The literalist bias in interpreting logos in Hebrews as the Bible is similar to the bias which leads many in the dispensationalist churches to go off into what Paul calls fables in I Timothy 1: 4 and in II Timothy 4: 4 by seeing the man of sin and the temple in II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 as a single individual, probably the one man anti-Christ, and the temple as a literal rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.

The literal mind set and the theology behind that literal way of viewing scripture prevents the dispensationalist church people from understanding that Paul, having already said that the temple of God is now "ye," those who are born again in Jesus Christ, means that the man of sin occupies these believers when the falling away occurs. (see I Corinthians 3: 16-17 and I Corinthians 6: 19, as well as Stephen's statement in Acts 7: 48. God does not dwell in temples made by men but in those who are born again in Jesus Christ. John 3: 1-6). Those who are born again are beginning to have Christ in them (Galatians 4:19, Philippians 2:5, Colossians 1: 27, "...what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.")

Jesus the logos - the full revelation and manifestation of God's creative spiritual power - which many Old Testament prophets had foretold was now here on earth walking around in the form of a man. That Jesus, called by John the Logos, would enter himself into those he chose as his own. Thats what Paul is talking about in Colossians 1: 27, the hope of realizing the full glory of Christ in you.

Sometimes it seems that dispensationalists take one look at the historico-grammatical approach and throw the history part out the window.