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Ben Masada
September 27th, 2015, 07:40 AM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?

Yesterday I was asked why the Jews had killed Jesus. The Jews did not take part in the killing of Jesus. If you are looking for some one to blame, ask me and I will give you a group.

Do you know the meaning of those 4 initials on that plate nailed on the top of Jesus' cross? I am talking about INRI. That's a verdict which means that Jesus was crucified on a political charge for having been acclaimed king of the Jews in Jerusalem which was a charge bordering on insurrection.

The people who were acclaiming Jesus king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem were Jesus' own disciples. With the intent to save him from being arrested, the Pharisees asked him to stop his disciples with that nonsense and Jesus said that if they stopped, the stones would shout.

All right, soon afterwards, Jesus was arrested, judged before Pilate and condemned to the cross. That's in Luke 19:37-40. Besides, the Jews could not have killed Jesus and much less on the cross because the power of jurisdiction had been taken from Israel as Rome took over the Land. A death sentence passed on any one in Israel at the time would have been an act of insurrection. Therefore, Jesus' own disciples caused the death of Jesus, not the Jews in general.

bybee
September 27th, 2015, 08:08 AM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?

Yesterday I was asked why the Jews had killed Jesus. The Jews did not take part in the killing of Jesus. If you are looking for some one to blame, ask me and I will give you a group.

Do you know the meaning of those 4 initials on that plate nailed on the top of Jesus' cross? I am talking about INRI. That's a verdict which means that Jesus was crucified on a political charge for having been acclaimed king of the Jews in Jerusalem which was a charge bordering on insurrection.

The people who were acclaiming Jesus king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem were Jesus' own disciples. With the intent to save him from being arrested, the Pharisees asked him to stop his disciples with that nonsense and Jesus said that if they stopped, the stones would shout.

All right, soon afterwards, Jesus was arrested, judged before Pilate and condemned to the cross. That's in Luke 19:37-40. Besides, the Jews could not have killed Jesus and much less on the cross because the power of jurisdiction had been taken from Israel as Rome took over the Land. A death sentence passed on any one in Israel at the time would have been an act of insurrection. Therefore, Jesus' own disciples caused the death of Jesus, not the Jews in general.

Moving forward a bit. Once Christianity became the sanctioned religion of the state Rome did not want to be known as the killers of Jesus of Nazareth. So began the vilification of the Jews and it continues to this day. Anti-Semitism is fed in every church in Christendom during Holy Week.
And I believe that Islam is working assiduously to promote their love of Jesus the man to allay the suspicions of Christians and promote the idea that Islam is friendly to Christianity?

God's Truth
September 27th, 2015, 12:33 PM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?

Yesterday I was asked why the Jews had killed Jesus. The Jews did not take part in the killing of Jesus. If you are looking for some one to blame, ask me and I will give you a group.

Do you know the meaning of those 4 initials on that plate nailed on the top of Jesus' cross? I am talking about INRI. That's a verdict which means that Jesus was crucified on a political charge for having been acclaimed king of the Jews in Jerusalem which was a charge bordering on insurrection.

The people who were acclaiming Jesus king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem were Jesus' own disciples. With the intent to save him from being arrested, the Pharisees asked him to stop his disciples with that nonsense and Jesus said that if they stopped, the stones would shout.

All right, soon afterwards, Jesus was arrested, judged before Pilate and condemned to the cross. That's in Luke 19:37-40. Besides, the Jews could not have killed Jesus and much less on the cross because the power of jurisdiction had been taken from Israel as Rome took over the Land. A death sentence passed on any one in Israel at the time would have been an act of insurrection. Therefore, Jesus' own disciples caused the death of Jesus, not the Jews in general.

The Jews who killed Jesus did so because they knew if anyone listened to Jesus we would not need them, and there place of power would be taken away.

aikido7
September 27th, 2015, 12:40 PM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?

Yesterday I was asked why the Jews had killed Jesus. The Jews did not take part in the killing of Jesus. If you are looking for some one to blame, ask me and I will give you a group.

Do you know the meaning of those 4 initials on that plate nailed on the top of Jesus' cross? I am talking about INRI. That's a verdict which means that Jesus was crucified on a political charge for having been acclaimed king of the Jews in Jerusalem which was a charge bordering on insurrection.

The people who were acclaiming Jesus king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem were Jesus' own disciples. With the intent to save him from being arrested, the Pharisees asked him to stop his disciples with that nonsense and Jesus said that if they stopped, the stones would shout.

All right, soon afterwards, Jesus was arrested, judged before Pilate and condemned to the cross. That's in Luke 19:37-40. Besides, the Jews could not have killed Jesus and much less on the cross because the power of jurisdiction had been taken from Israel as Rome took over the Land. A death sentence passed on any one in Israel at the time would have been an act of insurrection. Therefore, Jesus' own disciples caused the death of Jesus, not the Jews in general.The Jews were living in the Roman Empire.

The Jewish priests who believed in blood sacrifices to a God of justice were not happy with Jesus's idea of repentance, his public flouting of purity codes, his consorting with immigrants, the poor, the sinners and his attack on the Jerusalem temple before his death.

And the Romans were the Romans, exercising their power on this Galilean upstart.

aikido7
September 27th, 2015, 12:41 PM
The Jews who killed Jesus did so because they knew if anyone listened to Jesus we would not need them, and there place of power would be taken away.Right!

God's Truth
September 27th, 2015, 12:55 PM
The Jews were living in the Roman Empire.

The Jewish priests who believed in blood sacrifices to a God of justice were not happy with Jesus's idea of repentance, his public flouting of purity codes, his consorting with immigrants, the poor, the sinners and his attack on the Jerusalem temple before his death.

And the Romans were the Romans, exercising their power on this Galilean upstart.

Jesus is God and therefore forgave the sins of GOD'S PEOPLE while he walked the earth.

When Jesus was sacrificed then ALL COULD COME TO HIM TO BE WITH GOD THROUGH JESUS' BLOOD.

I know you know you are missing something in your life. Come to God's Truth.

bybee
September 27th, 2015, 01:32 PM
The Jews who killed Jesus did so because they knew if anyone listened to Jesus we would not need them, and there place of power would be taken away.

You are a moronic dipstick! The Jews do not wish power over others. They do not proselytize. They have their own relationship with God. And we have ours.

Nick M
September 27th, 2015, 03:24 PM
God himself poured his wrath out on the Lord Jesus Christ. The Jews and the Romans were nothing more than manipulated puppets. Something that should make the Calvinist smile for all the wrong reasons.

RBBI
September 27th, 2015, 04:38 PM
Neither the Jews nor the Romans killed Him. He laid down His life willingly.

Jhn 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, Jhn 11:50
Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

Jhn 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

Jhn 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

dialm
September 27th, 2015, 05:09 PM
But it is true. The Jews really did not kill Jesus. They did not have the legal authority. It is the same today. Israel does not have the legal authority to kill anyone for any reason. What is going on in the Middle East is lawlessness on the part of the nation Israel

aikido7
September 27th, 2015, 06:23 PM
Jesus is God and therefore forgave the sins of GOD'S PEOPLE while he walked the earth.

When Jesus was sacrificed then ALL COULD COME TO HIM TO BE WITH GOD THROUGH JESUS' BLOOD.

I know you know you are missing something in your life. Come to God's Truth.I agree with your personal theology as stated.
I just cannot take it literally.

aikido7
September 27th, 2015, 06:37 PM
The Roman Empire crucified Jesus. The earliest gospel Mark says that the crowds watching Pilate and Jesus were described as "the people."

Later, Matthew alters Mark and Luke and simply says the people cried "May his blood be on us and our children." And uses the term "all the people."

John calls them all "the Jews."


The immediate impression conveyed by "the Jews" is one of unreceptivity and hostility toward Jesus. And it is ironic that Jesus and his followers were all Jews.

John's community of believers were in conflict with normative Jews and were getting kicked out of the synagogues. So he was sure to put anti-Semitic vitriol into Jesus's mouth (John was written around the year 100).

He wanted Jesus to justify his own prejudices--much like we do.

Tambora
September 27th, 2015, 06:40 PM
Do you know the meaning of those 4 initials on that plate nailed on the top of Jesus' cross? I am talking about INRI. Where does scripture say that 'INRI' was on a plate on the cross?

God's Truth
September 27th, 2015, 06:45 PM
I agree with your personal theology as stated.
I just cannot take it literally.

It is not mine it is God's Truth.

You do not believe the Holy Bible. You do not believe that God reserved His written Word exactly as we have it in the Holy Bible.

You are the one with the man made beliefs you claim those who believe the Holy Bible have.

God's Truth
September 27th, 2015, 06:48 PM
But it is true. The Jews really did not kill Jesus. They did not have the legal authority. It is the same today. Israel does not have the legal authority to kill anyone for any reason. What is going on in the Middle East is lawlessness on the part of the nation Israel

The Bible plainly says the Jews killed Jesus, with the help of those who had the legal authority.


Acts 2:23 This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.

patrick jane
September 27th, 2015, 06:50 PM
Where does scripture say that 'INRI' was on a plate on the cross?

Matthew 27:37 KJV - Matthew 27:37 - Matthew 27:37 NIV


Matthew 27:37 NLT -

a charge, a written thing above his head - does it matter if it was a plate ?

God's Truth
September 27th, 2015, 06:58 PM
You are a moronic dipstick!
The Jews do not wish power over others.

John 11:48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our temple and our nation."






They do not proselytize. They have their own relationship with God. And we have ours.

You do not know what you are talking about. Of course the Jews proselytized.

Matthew 23:15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

Oh how I love the Word of God!

elohiym
September 27th, 2015, 07:06 PM
You are a moronic dipstick! The Jews do not wish power over others. They do not proselytize. They have their own relationship with God. And we have ours.

What poster God's Truth said about the Jews that killed Jesus was true and essentially a paraphrase of scripture.

glorydaz
September 27th, 2015, 07:07 PM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?

Yesterday I was asked why the Jews had killed Jesus. The Jews did not take part in the killing of Jesus. If you are looking for some one to blame, ask me and I will give you a group.

Do you know the meaning of those 4 initials on that plate nailed on the top of Jesus' cross? I am talking about INRI. That's a verdict which means that Jesus was crucified on a political charge for having been acclaimed king of the Jews in Jerusalem which was a charge bordering on insurrection.

The people who were acclaiming Jesus king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem were Jesus' own disciples. With the intent to save him from being arrested, the Pharisees asked him to stop his disciples with that nonsense and Jesus said that if they stopped, the stones would shout.

All right, soon afterwards, Jesus was arrested, judged before Pilate and condemned to the cross. That's in Luke 19:37-40. Besides, the Jews could not have killed Jesus and much less on the cross because the power of jurisdiction had been taken from Israel as Rome took over the Land. A death sentence passed on any one in Israel at the time would have been an act of insurrection. Therefore, Jesus' own disciples caused the death of Jesus, not the Jews in general.

Matthew 27:24

When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

kayaker
September 27th, 2015, 07:20 PM
The bigger question is who instigated Jesus' crucifixion, Ben. Those instigators were not Israelites, although there were Israelite tagalongs. Listen to His detractors in John 8:33 KJV and John 8:41 KJV "We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man..." "We be not born of fornication..." Abraham sired progeny via Hagar, Sarah, Keturah and concubines. Abraham was married to his half-sister, Isaac was married to his cousin, Jacob-Israel was married to two cousin sister-wive, and Judah hooked up with his daughter-in-law! The Israelites were in bondage in Egypt. So, the pretty simple conclusion is the instigators of Jesus' crucifixion were the Shelanite descendants of Isaiah's Messianic progenitor (Isaiah 65:9) and his "Canaanitess" wife (1Chronicles 2:3).

Jesus was a descendant of Judah's and his daughter-in-law Tamar who played the harlot (Genesis 38:24 KJV; Matthew 1:3; Luke 3:33 KJV). I don't suppose you can imagine a little sibling rivalry in those days as through which female co-orogenitor of Isaiah's Messianic progenitor (Isaiah 65:9) that Messiah would arrive? Those Shelanites (Numbers 26:20), being descendants of Judah and his Canaanitess wife, had the upper hand until Jesus showed up. Jesus' mere existence as a descendant of Judah and his daughter-in-law Tamar 'legitimized' the Pharzites (and Zarhites, Numbers 26:20) who were predominately the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And, Jesus' arrival sorta made 'bastards' (Deuteronomy 23:2 KJV, aka 'mamzerim', progeny of a forbidden marriage) out of those Shelanites descendants of Judah and his Canaanitess wife contrary to Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, affirmed by Ezra some 1,400 years later in Ezra 9:1, 2, which constituted a "great trespass" in Ezra 9:7 KJV.

So... yep... Jesus was a bit of a political activist among the ranks of those circumcised, non-Israelite, mamzerim, Shelanite Pharisees that infiltrated the true Israelite synagogues. They weren't even ancestrally authentic Jews to begin with. Jesus was King of the Jews. The problem was the Shelanites usurped the title, but they weren't even counted in Ezra's tribal roster of Judah in 1Chronicles 4:1... even though Shelah was a legitimate first degree son of Judah (1Chronicles 4:21 KJV, 1Chronicles 4:22 KJV). Don't you think Pilate figured that out? He wasn't a governor and judge for by being a slacker...and he didn't have a rooster in the fight, LOL! One can readily blame the Romans, but that rivalry thing was undoubtedly quite a perfect storm, wouldn't you say?

kayaker

glorydaz
September 27th, 2015, 07:21 PM
God himself poured his wrath out on the Lord Jesus Christ. The Jews and the Romans were nothing more than manipulated puppets. Something that should make the Calvinist smile for all the wrong reasons.


Neither the Jews nor the Romans killed Him. He laid down His life willingly.



:thumb: It was written. Who are they blaming again?


Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.

John 12:12-16
On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ***, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ***'s colt. These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.

Tambora
September 27th, 2015, 07:26 PM
Matthew 27:37 KJV - Matthew 27:37 - Matthew 27:37 NIV


Matthew 27:37 NLT -

a charge, a written thing above his head - does it matter if it was a plate ?I don't see anywhere in those scriptures that say 'INRI' was written as the accusation against him.

You might see it on some Catholic artwork, but not in scripture.

God's Truth
September 27th, 2015, 07:29 PM
:thumb: It was written. Who are they blaming again?


Zechariah 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.

John 12:12-16
On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ***, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ***'s colt. These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.


Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.


Acts 2:36
"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah."


Acts 3: 12 When Peter saw this, he said to them: "Men of Israel, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

Acts 5: 27 Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28 "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood." 29 Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men! 30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead--whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.

patrick jane
September 27th, 2015, 07:35 PM
I don't see anywhere in those scriptures that say 'INRI' was written as the accusation against him.

You might see it on some Catholic artwork, but not in scripture.

true - i don't see INRI in scripture, but i don't see things clearly all the time. i did see John 19:19-20 KJV and it says it was written in Hebrew, Greek and Latin. Latin would be INRI, yet how can we know

Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 06:01 AM
1 - The bigger question is who instigated Jesus' crucifixion, Ben. Those instigators were not Israelites, although there were Israelite
2 - "We be not born of fornication..." (John 8:41)
3 -
4 - Don't you think Pilate figured that out? He wasn't a governor and judge for by being a slacker...and he didn't have a rooster in the fight, LOL! One can readily blame the Romans, but that rivalry thing was undoubtedly quite a perfect storm, wouldn't you say?

kayaker

1 - And the real answer was that his own disciples did it whereas unaware of what they were doing. (Luke 19:37-40)

2 - This is a reference to the catastrophic occurrences of rapes perpetrated by Romans in Israel in the First Century.

3 - No, I would not say but the Hellenists who wrote the gospels found many reasons to say so.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 06:02 AM
1 - The bigger question is who instigated Jesus' crucifixion, Ben. Those instigators were not Israelites, although there were Israelite
2 - "We be not born of fornication..." (John 8:41)
3 - Don't you think Pilate figured that out? He wasn't a governor and judge for by being a slacker...and he didn't have a rooster in the fight, LOL! One can readily blame the Romans, but that rivalry thing was undoubtedly quite a perfect storm, wouldn't you say?

kayaker

1 - And the real answer was that his own disciples did it whereas unaware of what they were doing. (Luke 19:37-40)

2 - This is a reference to the catastrophic occurrences of rapes perpetrated by Romans in Israel in the First Century.

3 - No, I would not say but the Hellenists who wrote the gospels found many reasons to say so.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 06:13 AM
Matthew 27:24

When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

According to whom, the Hellenist who wrote the gospel attributed to Matthew? That's absolutely not the Pilate described by Josephus who would consider his day lost when he did not have a Jew to nail him on the cross.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 06:19 AM
Where does scripture say that 'INRI' was on a plate on the cross?

I said initials. The initials of the statement "Jesus Nazarene king of the Jews" by definition.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 06:30 AM
The Roman Empire crucified Jesus. The earliest gospel Mark says that the crowds watching Pilate and Jesus were described as "the people."

Later, Matthew alters Mark and Luke and simply says the people cried "May his blood be on us and our children." And uses the term "all the people."

John calls them all "the Jews."

The immediate impression conveyed by "the Jews" is one of unreceptivity and hostility toward Jesus. And it is ironic that Jesus and his followers were all Jews.

John's community of believers were in conflict with normative Jews and were getting kicked out of the synagogues. So he was sure to put anti-Semitic vitriol into Jesus's mouth (John was written around the year 100).

He wanted Jesus to justify his own prejudices--much like we do.

Hi Aikido! Here is the point of my views of the NT. Unlike all the other Jews who reject the whole of the NT, every book, every page, every statement and every word, I accept 20% of it worthy learning something from. The other 80% IMHO, is composed of anti-Jewish interpolations with the intent to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. That's why the gospels have come out this way, crowded with anti-Jewish slogans and slanders against the Jewish People.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 07:02 AM
But it is true. The Jews really did not kill Jesus. They did not have the legal authority. It is the same today. Israel does not have the legal authority to kill anyone for any reason. What is going on in the Middle East is lawlessness on the part of the nation Israel

Now, you are generalizing based on the lawlessness of some individual. This is common throughout all nations. It does not mean that the whole nation is to blame for the sins of some individuals. Collective punishment usually comes as a result of government adoption of a sinful condition. For instance, the official sanctioning of same-sex marriage just lately endorsed by all States in America, Israel, in spite of being an almost total democratic Country remains still a Torah-abiding People as this unnatural condition is concerned.

turbosixx
September 28th, 2015, 07:18 AM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?

Yesterday I was asked why the Jews had killed Jesus. The Jews did not take part in the killing of Jesus. If you are looking for some one to blame, ask me and I will give you a group.

Do you know the meaning of those 4 initials on that plate nailed on the top of Jesus' cross? I am talking about INRI. That's a verdict which means that Jesus was crucified on a political charge for having been acclaimed king of the Jews in Jerusalem which was a charge bordering on insurrection.

The people who were acclaiming Jesus king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem were Jesus' own disciples. With the intent to save him from being arrested, the Pharisees asked him to stop his disciples with that nonsense and Jesus said that if they stopped, the stones would shout.

All right, soon afterwards, Jesus was arrested, judged before Pilate and condemned to the cross. That's in Luke 19:37-40. Besides, the Jews could not have killed Jesus and much less on the cross because the power of jurisdiction had been taken from Israel as Rome took over the Land. A death sentence passed on any one in Israel at the time would have been an act of insurrection. Therefore, Jesus' own disciples caused the death of Jesus, not the Jews in general.


It was God's plan of salvation that Jesus died for, the Jews had him killed and the Romans did the killing.

Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

GT is right.

John 11:47 Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees convened a council, and were saying, "What are we doing? For this man is performing many signs. 48 If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." 49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish." 51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. 53 So from that day on they planned together to kill Him.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 07:29 AM
1 - Neither the Jews nor the Romans killed Him. He laid down His life willingly.

2 - John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, John 11:50. Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

3 - John 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

4 - John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

1 - No, he did not. During that last night of Thursday, Jesus went with his disciples to the Gethsemane to pray and he prayed three times asking of God to rescue him from walking the "Via Dolorosa." When he realized that there was no answer to his prayer he said "Let Thy will be done, not mine." What was his will then? Not to die on the cross there is. It means he was, so to speak, forced unto the cross. As you can see, there was no willingness in Jesus to die on the cross.

2 - I just choose not to believe that Caiaphas could be that insensitive a person, especially as a High Priest.

3 - Absolutely not true. A High Priest knew much better than to contradict the Prophets of the Lord, whose word from the Lord was that no one could die for the sins of another or of the nation. (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20)

4 - He also knew that the Ten Tribes had got lost forever and would never return. (Psalm 78:67-70)

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 07:37 AM
God himself poured his wrath out on the Lord Jesus Christ. The Jews and the Romans were nothing more than manipulated puppets. Something that should make the Calvinist smile for all the wrong reasons.

HaShem has absolutely nothing to do with the death of Jesus but Jesus himself and his disciples. Him for allowing to be proclaimed king of the Jews in Jerusalem and his disciples for doing the proclamation. (Luke 19:37-40)

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 07:43 AM
You are a moronic dipstick! The Jews do not wish power over others. They do not proselytize. They have their own relationship with God. And we have ours.

Wow! Bybee, If you mean what you say above about the Jews, I pay you the homage that comes to you. I couldn't have said it any better.

Jamie Gigliotti
September 28th, 2015, 08:15 AM
HaShem has absolutely nothing to do with the death of Jesus but Jesus himself and his disciples. Him for allowing to be proclaimed king of the Jews in Jerusalem and his disciples for doing the proclamation. (Luke 19:37-40)

What Satan means for evil God means for good. God soveriegnly chose to allow the pride of the Roman and Jewish leaders, who were fearful of the following Jesus had and who He said He was, to crucify Christ. An act done in pride and hate and presumed victory of Satan; demonstrated the love God and spotless love and submission to the Father of Jesus as His life was given for the forgiveness of sins. On the third day the victory was on display! He lives in us Ben, by His Spirit. Ben lay down your pride; you need Him as much as the rest of us.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 08:23 AM
The Jews were living in the Roman Empire.

The Jewish priests who believed in blood sacrifices to a God of justice were not happy with Jesus's idea of repentance, his public flouting of purity codes, his consorting with immigrants, the poor, the sinners and his attack on the Jerusalem temple before his death.

And the Romans were the Romans, exercising their power on this Galilean upstart.

I do not understand how the Jewish priests were not happy with Jesus' idea of repentance when Jesus' idea of repentance was to achieve it first from our neighbors before seeking it from God at the Temple. (Mat. 5:23,24) That's perfectly Jewish.

Now, as "the attack on the Jerusalem Temple was concerned," the text says that Jesus armed himself with a whip and caused financial and physical damages to the moneychangers who had the High Priest's permission to use that area in front of the Temple to change the money of Jewish outsiders to make the proper sacrificial offering. I mean, Jesus broke the Golden Rule to do that. And the Golden Rule, mind you, covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. Serious transgressions which rendered Jesus a sinner just like you and me.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 08:40 AM
It was God's plan of salvation that Jesus died for, the Jews had him killed and the Romans did the killing.

Acts 2:23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

GT is right.

John 11:47 Therefore the chief priests and the Pharisees convened a council, and were saying, "What are we doing? For this man is performing many signs. 48 If we let Him go on like this, all men will believe in Him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." 49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all, 50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish." 51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. 53 So from that day on they planned together to kill Him.


Absolutely not true. HaShem would not plan against His own Word given to His prophets that no one was supposed to die for the salvation of another. (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20)

RBBI
September 28th, 2015, 08:46 AM
1 - No, he did not. During that last night of Thursday, Jesus went with his disciples to the Gethsemane to pray and he prayed three times asking of God to rescue him from walking the "Via Dolorosa." When he realized that there was no answer to his prayer he said "Let Thy will be done, not mine." What was his will then? Not to die on the cross there is. It means he was, so to speak, forced unto the cross. As you can see, there was no willingness in Jesus to die on the cross.

2 - I just choose not to believe that Caiaphas could be that insensitive a person, especially as a High Priest.

3 - Absolutely not true. A High Priest knew much better than to contradict the Prophets of the Lord, whose word from the Lord was that no one could die for the sins of another or of the nation. (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20)

4 - He also knew that the Ten Tribes had got lost forever and would never return. (Psalm 78:67-70)

1) He said no man takes my life, I lay it down willingly.

2) Did you not read the bold print? It says he PROPHESIED.

3) When the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies unprepared to offer up for the sins of himself AND THE PEOPLE, what happened to him? He knew he was taking a chance on dying, and he did it for the people as well as himself, correct?

4) They are returning in this hour.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 08:49 AM
What Satan means for evil God means for good. God soveriegnly chose to allow the pride of the Roman and Jewish leaders, who were fearful of the following Jesus had and who He said He was, to crucify Christ. An act done in pride and hate and presumed victory of Satan; demonstrated the love God and spotless love and submission to the Father of Jesus as His life was given for the forgiveness of sins. On the third day the victory was on display! He lives in us Ben, by His Spirit. Ben lay down your pride; you need Him as much as the rest of us.

Satan does not exist. Man himself can be Satan when he chooses to play the one. The life of Jesus was not given for the forgiveness of sins because Jesus would not contradict the prophets of the Lord who said that no one can give his life for the forgiveness of the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30: Ezek. 18:20) Jesus does not live at all; he has been dead for 2000 years. Don't forget, he was a Jewish man. I have already what Jesus had when in life. The Truth of HaShem. (John 17:17)

6days
September 28th, 2015, 08:50 AM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?


It was you and me Ben... We can't blame the Jews.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=+how+deep+the+fathers+love+you+tube&FORM=VIRE3#view=detail&mid=7302ED3A3B3513D7AF897302ED3A3B3513D7AF89

RBBI
September 28th, 2015, 08:50 AM
Now, as "the attack on the Jerusalem Temple was concerned," the text says that Jesus armed himself with a whip and caused financial and physical damages to the moneychangers who had the High Priest's permission to use that area in front of the Temple to change the money of Jewish outsiders to make the proper sacrificial offering. I mean, Jesus broke the Golden Rule to do that. And the Golden Rule, mind you, covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. Serious transgressions which rendered Jesus a sinner just like you and me.

The point was, the moneychangers were using unjust balances not rendering equal payment, AND they made HaShem's house a house of thieves in the process. Yeshua was simply demonstrating God's outrage at the very idea and insult of it.

RBBI
September 28th, 2015, 08:53 AM
Satan does not exist. Man himself can be Satan when he chooses to play the one. The life of Jesus was not given for the forgiveness of sins because Jesus would not contradict the prophets of the Lord who said that no one can give his life for the forgiveness of the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30: Ezek. 18:20) Jesus does not live at all; he has been dead for 2000 years. Don't forget, he was a Jewish man. I have already what Jesus had when in life. The Truth of HaShem. (John 17:17)

That's where your wrong. The Son is alive, and you would know that if you would ask HaShem to reveal the truth of it and HIM, to you. Then no one could tell you any differently, because a man with a theory is no match for a man with an experience.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 08:54 AM
The Jews who killed Jesus did so because they knew if anyone listened to Jesus we would not need them, and there place of power would be taken away.

That's absolute verbal juggling of nonsense.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 09:01 AM
Moving forward a bit. Once Christianity became the sanctioned religion of the state Rome did not want to be known as the killers of Jesus of Nazareth. So began the vilification of the Jews and it continues to this day. Anti-Semitism is fed in every church in Christendom during Holy Week.
And I believe that Islam is working assiduously to promote their love of Jesus the man to allay the suspicions of Christians and promote the idea that Islam is friendly to Christianity?

I would confirm your post with Mat. 5:11. When Jesus was delivering his Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, he blessed them with the following words: "Blessed are you when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you FALSELY for my sake." Falsely, said Jesus, and that's what I am trying to remind the posters in this forum.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 09:13 AM
1) He said no man takes my life, I lay it down willingly.

2) Did you not read the bold print? It says he PROPHESIED.

3) When the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies unprepared to offer up for the sins of himself AND THE PEOPLE, what happened to him? He knew he was taking a chance on dying, and he did it for the people as well as himself, correct?

4) They are returning in this hour.

1) No, he did not. He prayed three times in the Gethsemane asking not to walk the Via Dolorosa. At the end he said, "Let thy will be done; not mine." What was his will? Obviously not to walk to the cross which means there was no willingness to die for no one.

2) No, he did not. By the time of Jesus, the prophetic system in Israel had been removed from Judaism. (Dan. 9:24)

3) Please, show me the quote for that text.

4) Please, document your assertion with the proper evidence.

jamie
September 28th, 2015, 09:19 AM
Jesus also said, "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it."
(Matthew 21:43 NKJV)

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 09:26 AM
It was you and me Ben... We can't blame the Jews.
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=+how+deep+the+fathers+love+you+tube&FORM=VIRE3#view=detail&mid=7302ED3A3B3513D7AF897302ED3A3B3513D7AF89

No, it was the Romans at the stupidity of Jesus' own disciples. The Pharisees tried to prevent that tragedy but Jesus seemed to be enjoying the parade and had to pay too hard for that mistake. (Luke 19:37-40)

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 09:30 AM
The point was, the moneychangers were using unjust balances not rendering equal payment, AND they made HaShem's house a house of thieves in the process. Yeshua was simply demonstrating God's outrage at the very idea and insult of it.

Can you quote an evidence that the reason for that havoc at the Temple was unjust balances and not rendering equal payments?

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 09:36 AM
That's where your wrong. The Son is alive, and you would know that if you would ask HaShem to reveal the truth of it and HIM, to you. Then no one could tell you any differently, because a man with a theory is no match for a man with an experience.

Prove it! If you are a man with experience; show me the evidence that Jesus is alive. You are living in a paradoxical world. You comply that Jesus was a Jew and insist that he returned from the grave. Read Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23 and Job 10:21) According to the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism, once dead, no one will ever return.

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 09:40 AM
Jesus also said, "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it." (Matthew 21:43 NKJV)

Jesus never said that. That's from the Hellenist who wrote that gospel and attributed it to Matthew for apostolic credibility. Matthew never wrote that gospel. (Mat 9:9)

God's Truth
September 28th, 2015, 10:15 AM
That's absolute verbal juggling of nonsense.

You say that because your only defense is to say the written Word of God is corrupt.

heir
September 28th, 2015, 10:31 AM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?

Yesterday I was asked why the Jews had killed Jesus. The Jews did not take part in the killing of Jesus. If you are looking for some one to blame, ask me and I will give you a group.

Mark 12:1 And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.

Mark 12:2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.

Mark 12:3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.

Mark 12:4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.

Mark 12:5 And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.

Mark 12:6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.

Mark 12:7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.

Mark 12:8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.

...

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

...


Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

Acts 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Jamie Gigliotti
September 28th, 2015, 10:32 AM
Satan does not exist. Man himself can be Satan when he chooses to play the one. The life of Jesus was not given for the forgiveness of sins because Jesus would not contradict the prophets of the Lord who said that no one can give his life for the forgiveness of the sins of another. (Jer. 31:30: Ezek. 18:20) Jesus does not live at all; he has been dead for 2000 years. Don't forget, he was a Jewish man. I have already what Jesus had when in life. The Truth of HaShem. (John 17:17)
I forgot you don't believe in the super natural, or spiritual world... Yet you say God is a Spirit. Logically impossible.

Jamie Gigliotti
September 28th, 2015, 10:43 AM
Prove it! If you are a man with experience; show me the evidence that Jesus is alive. You are living in a paradoxical world. You comply that Jesus was a Jew and insist that he returned from the grave. Read Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23 and Job 10:21) According to the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism, once dead, no one will ever return.
And yet Saul summoned Samuel after his death through a medium. Surely the Spirit lives on.

RBBI
September 28th, 2015, 01:56 PM
Can you quote an evidence that the reason for that havoc at the Temple was unjust balances and not rendering equal payments?

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Bankers.htm

Ben Masada
September 28th, 2015, 10:41 PM
You say that because your only defense is to say the written Word of God is corrupt.

And you are jealous that the written Word of God was given to the Jews only and to no other people on earth. (Psa. 147:19,20)

God's Truth
September 28th, 2015, 11:38 PM
And you are jealous that the written Word of God was given to the Jews only and to no other people on earth. (Psa. 147:19,20)

The written Word of God is given to everyone.

turbosixx
September 29th, 2015, 12:12 AM
Absolutely not true. HaShem would not plan against His own Word given to His prophets that no one was supposed to die for the salvation of another. (Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20)

I'm curious what you make of these verses?
Rom. 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.......19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Acts 28:23 When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.

Ben Masada
September 29th, 2015, 04:53 AM
I forgot you don't believe in the super natural, or spiritual world... Yet you say God is a Spirit. Logically impossible.

HaShem is a Spirit and so said Jesus in John 4:24. The super natural or spiritual world is when Israel, the People become a Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation. (Exod. 19:6)

intojoy
September 29th, 2015, 04:58 AM
Yeshua was not killed!
He was put to a penal death!
The Jews had no authority to put anyone to death which was why Pilot ordered the execution of the Messiah, it was a Roman hand that nailed Messiah to the tree, Yeshua was executed by the Romans not the Jews. Officially Yeshua was seen as a rival threat to the Roman Empire and was executed by the Romans.

Ben Masada
September 29th, 2015, 05:01 AM
And yet Saul summoned Samuel after his death through a medium. Surely the Spirit lives on.

Did you read the text well enough? I don't think so. Saul never saw Samuel; he simply and stupidly chose to trust the witch of Endor that she was speaking with Samuel. Have you ever been to séance? That's what they do when consulting the dead. They imitate the voice of the dead to achieve credibility as a witch. Wake up and smell the coffee!

Ben Masada
September 29th, 2015, 06:39 AM
The written Word of God is given to everyone.

Oh! Okay. So, you are implying that the Psalmist was a liar too.

Ben Masada
September 29th, 2015, 06:47 AM
I'm curious what you make of these verses?
Rom. 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.......19 For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

Acts 28:23 When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening.

These verses you have mentioned above are from the gospel of Paul. I am talking about the gospel of Jesus who was a Jew and whose Faith was Judaism. The NT he never even dreamed would ever rise.

aikido7
September 29th, 2015, 06:50 AM
Jesus is God and therefore forgave the sins of GOD'S PEOPLE while he walked the earth.

When Jesus was sacrificed then ALL COULD COME TO HIM TO BE WITH GOD THROUGH JESUS' BLOOD.

I know you know you are missing something in your life. Come to God's Truth.The idea of a bloody sacrifice is an ancient pagan belief.

Jesus (and John the Baptizer) preached repentance before a God of mercy. The idea of human sacrifice would have disgusted a first-century Jew like Jesus. Dying on the cross for human salvation is a theological meaning overlaid on Jesus's life and death by his later followers.

Most Christians look at Jesus and the Bible through the lens of the Gospel of John. John was so intent on seeing Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb of God that he has Jesus dying on the Day of Preparation when the paschal lambs were killed for the holiday meal.

The other three gospels record Jesus dying on Passover--the day after.

Ben Masada
September 29th, 2015, 06:55 AM
Are you using Matt 9:9 as proof that he didn't write it?

Mat. 9:9 is just one of the proofs. The NT quarries many other proofs. Among the non-Jewish and anti-Jewish doctrines there are sufficient evidences that none of the apostles of Jesus or a Jew at all wrote a single book of the NT.

aikido7
September 29th, 2015, 06:59 AM
It is not mine it is God's Truth.

You do not believe the Holy Bible. You do not believe that God reserved His written Word exactly as we have it in the Holy Bible.

You are the one with the man made beliefs you claim those who believe the Holy Bible have.If you look around the posters here on TOL, everyone has a different idea what "God's Truth" is and what it is not.

You are probably unaware of the many different traditions, theologies and legends that are contained in the Bible. And you probably feel more comfortable dismissing the contradictions and discrepancies.

I believe, with the overwhelming consensus of historians, that the Bible is a human product written by many people inspired by God.
It just makes no common sense for me to believe it was somehow "channeled" like some Ouija Board.

At any rate, I accept and believe that the Bible is true, but it is not always factually correct. But I am bound to take it seriously as a Christian.

Ben Masada
September 29th, 2015, 07:03 AM
Yeshua was not killed!
He was put to a penal death!
The Jews had no authority to put anyone to death which was why Pilot ordered the execution of the Messiah, it was a Roman hand that nailed Messiah to the tree, Yeshua was executed by the Romans not the Jews. Officially Yeshua was seen as a rival threat to the Roman Empire and was executed by the Romans.

Cal hakavod Intojoy. I couldn't have said any better. Only a small detail. Pilate did not order the execution of the Messiah but of Jesus. The only one in the History of the world who ordered the execution of the Messiah was Hitler when he decreed the Final Solution of the Jewish People and killed more Jews than any other before and after him.

lifeisgood
September 29th, 2015, 07:44 AM
And you are jealous that the written Word of God was given to the Jews only and to no other people on earth. (Psa. 147:19,20)

And what an awesome privilege it is to have received the word of God. What an awesome privilege.

However, how sad that the Jews did not want to share HIS word with anybody else, as if God only created Jews, and God had no other alternative but to go to the dogs so that HIS plan should be fulfilled.

What an awesome privilege for dogs to also have received HIS word and how sad that the dogs are following the Jewish example.

No wonder HIS wrath is coming to this world as prophesied.

God's Truth
September 29th, 2015, 10:01 AM
Yeshua was not killed!
He was put to a penal death!
The Jews had no authority to put anyone to death which was why Pilot ordered the execution of the Messiah, it was a Roman hand that nailed Messiah to the tree, Yeshua was executed by the Romans not the Jews. Officially Yeshua was seen as a rival threat to the Roman Empire and was executed by the Romans.

Jesus was not killed? You are really in LaLa Land.

God's Truth
September 29th, 2015, 10:03 AM
Oh! Okay. So, you are implying that the Psalmist was a liar too.

No, that is what you do.

God is not the God of Jews only.

ok doser
September 29th, 2015, 10:06 AM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?


because they were too prideful to recognize Him as the Son of God


:mock:stoopid joos

God's Truth
September 29th, 2015, 10:15 AM
aikido7,
Just because the pagan religion seemed similar to God's does not make God's false.
To believe what you say, one would have to say the God of all creation could not keep a book reserved for us exactly as He wants.
Jesus' blood atones for the sins of the world, not his follower's blood.
Dying for God's Truth shows that there is nothing more important.
All the special days were about Jesus; all the special days. They were shadows of Jesus. Jesus is our Passover. Jesus is our Sacrifice.

God's Truth
September 29th, 2015, 10:18 AM
If you look around the posters here on TOL, everyone has a different idea what "God's Truth" is and what it is not.

You are probably unaware of the many different traditions, theologies and legends that are contained in the Bible. And you probably feel more comfortable dismissing the contradictions and discrepancies.

I believe, with the overwhelming consensus of historians, that the Bible is a human product written by many people inspired by God.
It just makes no common sense for me to believe it was somehow "channeled" like some Ouija Board.

At any rate, I accept and believe that the Bible is true, but it is not always factually correct. But I am bound to take it seriously as a Christian.

You do not take the written Word of God seriously. You compare it to evil, and you say it is corrupt.

God's Truth
September 29th, 2015, 10:21 AM
And what an awesome privilege it is to have received the word of God. What an awesome privilege.

However, how sad that the Jews did not want to share HIS word with anybody else, as if God only created Jews, and God had no other alternative but to go to the dogs so that HIS plan should be fulfilled.

What an awesome privilege for dogs to also have received HIS word and how sad that the dogs are following the Jewish example.

No wonder HIS wrath is coming to this world as prophesied.

Right, except that those 'dogs' are those who did not OBEY God.

Those dogs can obey God now and be saved.

They are dogs because like dogs, they do not obey their father...for to obey your father is to know your father.

Jamie Gigliotti
September 29th, 2015, 10:35 AM
HaShem is a Spirit and so said Jesus in John 4:24. The super natural or spiritual world is when Israel, the People become a Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nation. (Exod. 19:6)

Exactly God's plan through Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Jamie Gigliotti
September 29th, 2015, 10:38 AM
Did you read the text well enough? I don't think so. Saul never saw Samuel; he simply and stupidly chose to trust the witch of Endor that she was speaking with Samuel. Have you ever been to séance? That's what they do when consulting the dead. They imitate the voice of the dead to achieve credibility as a witch. Wake up and smell the coffee!
The witch didn't even know who Saul was until Samuel spoke.

God's Truth
September 29th, 2015, 10:43 AM
The witch didn't even know who Saul was until Samuel spoke.

We do not need a medium to prove to us that we live on in the spirit after the death of our body.

aikido7
September 29th, 2015, 11:42 AM
Just because the pagan religion seemed similar to God's does not make God's false.You are woefully misinformed if you believe I could even slightly believe that religions are "false."



To believe what you say, one would have to say the God of all creation could not keep a book reserved for us exactly as He wants.Books and libraries are concepts of human beings. God does not "reserve books." He is probably, in my opinion, not interested at all in the reading habits of humanity.

I go with the wisdom of the Jews on this one: God is an awesome mystery which cannot be described with human words.



Jesus' blood atones for the sins of the world, not his follower's blood.I agree. The simple fact that we are now aware of other faiths and different cultures makes that theology profoundly meaningful for today's people. It wasn't until the 1700s that the word "religion" could be seen as ending with the letter "s."


Dying for God's Truth shows that there is nothing more important.I agree.



All the special days were about Jesus. All the special days. They were shadows of Jesus. Jesus is our Passover. Jesus is our Sacrifice.Those are interesting and poetic ways to express your theology. Like the gospel authors before us, we all have to find a Jesus that makes sense to us.

Jamie Gigliotti
September 29th, 2015, 11:45 AM
We do not need a medium to prove to us that we live on in the spirit after the death of our body.

Those who know Jesus don't, but those who hold to the Torah only, should see the reality of the Spiritual realm is there.

serpentdove
September 29th, 2015, 12:04 PM
The Jews did not take part in the killing of Jesus.

Ac 4:10

Ben Masada
October 2nd, 2015, 12:55 PM
1 - And what an awesome privilege it is to have received the word of God. What an awesome privilege.

2 - However, how sad that the Jews did not want to share HIS word with anybody else, as if God only created Jews, and God had no other alternative but to go to the dogs so that HIS plan should be fulfilled.

3 - What an awesome privilege for dogs to also have received HIS word and how sad that the dogs are following the Jewish example.

4 - No wonder HIS wrath is coming to this world as prophesied.

1 - Indeed, it has been an awesome privilege to this day! And I will never cease sharing with all my listeners how awesome it had been.

2 - And how sad that you still hold this negative idea! I share the Word of HaShem for about 4 hours a day through the internet and sometimes for more than 5 hours personally on the Sabbaths.

3 - Now, I don't know what you are talking about. If you are referring to the Gentiles, Jesus was the only one to refer to them as dogs. I have never heard of another Jew to do so. (Mat. 7:6; and 15:26)

4 - If we suffer as a result of the "wrath" of God, at least it comes to us as a chastisement. It is better than to be consumed as the other nations. (Jer. 46:28)

Ben Masada
October 2nd, 2015, 01:02 PM
No, that is what you do.

God is not the God of Jews only.

No one has ever said that here before but yourself. If you have an issue with the Jews for this, take it with God, not with us.

Ben Masada
October 2nd, 2015, 01:12 PM
because they were too prideful to recognize Him as the Son of God

:mock:stoopid joos

He was the son of God without an earthly biological father only according to the gospel of Paul. As a Jew that he was, he was son of God only while he lived as part of the Jewish People. Evidence? Read Exod. 4:22,23. "Israel is My son; let My son go that he may serve Me." This text means that rather the Jews recognize Jesus as son of God. Jesus according to Mat. 18:1 is according to the gospel of Paul; a son of God that way is akin to the Greek demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. Sorry, because the truth hurts sometimes.

Ben Masada
October 2nd, 2015, 01:21 PM
Exactly God's plan through Christ and the Holy Spirit.

If you mean the Trinity, God is of an absolute Oneness from all points of view.

Ben Masada
October 2nd, 2015, 01:28 PM
The witch didn't even know who Saul was until Samuel spoke.

But of course! She was suspecting but, obviously, if she had entered into panic before satisfying Saul, she would be as good as dead. So, she gave some time to time to get into the spirit so to speak and misguided Saul to the end as she pleased.

God's Truth
October 2nd, 2015, 01:35 PM
You are woefully misinformed if you believe I could even slightly believe that religions are "false."
You said what you did. You said, “The idea of a bloody sacrifice is an ancient pagan belief.”
See, you are the type of person you keep telling us you do not like.

Books and libraries are concepts of human beings. God does not "reserve books." He is probably, in my opinion, not interested at all in the reading habits of humanity.

I go with the wisdom of the Jews on this one: God is an awesome mystery which cannot be described with human words.
Where did you get that from?
The Holy Bible is the written Word of God.


I agree. The simple fact that we are now aware of other faiths and different cultures makes that theology profoundly meaningful for today's people. It wasn't until the 1700s that the word "religion" could be seen as ending with the letter "s."
The Bible speaks of false beliefs. That same Bible says Jesus’ blood atones for our sins.


Those are interesting and poetic ways to express your theology. Like the gospel authors before us, we all have to find a Jesus that makes sense to us.

You are patronizing. God’s Truth can be found. Obey and believe what is in the Holy Bible, and stop throwing out the things you do not like.

Ben Masada
October 2nd, 2015, 01:39 PM
Ac 4:10

Peter never wrote that speech and never delivered it. Luke wrote it but did not dare to deliver it in Jerusalem, I am sure. It was recorded for posterity by Christian Hellenists to gather apostolic credibility for the Church. Peter was a Jew and he would not slander his People with such a lie for he knew that the Romans had crucified Jesus, not the Jews.

God's Truth
October 2nd, 2015, 01:40 PM
Those who know Jesus don't, but those who hold to the Torah only, should see the reality of the Spiritual realm is there.

I would agree with that.

God's Truth
October 2nd, 2015, 01:44 PM
No one has ever said that here before but yourself. If you have an issue with the Jews for this, take it with God, not with us.

You have boasted that the Jews had the old law. You have claimed there is no new covenant. As I have explained to you before, anyone could have converted to the old covenant. God promised things to Abraham and to his blood descendants because God loved Abraham. God does not save anyone according to whom they are blood related to, except those who are covered by the blood of Jesus.

See John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.


Natural descent is about blood relations.

God's Truth
October 2nd, 2015, 01:48 PM
Peter never wrote that speech and never delivered it. Luke wrote it but did not dare to deliver it in Jerusalem, I am sure. It was recorded for posterity by Christian Hellenists to gather apostolic credibility for the Church. Peter was a Jew and he would not slander his People with such a lie for he knew that the Romans had crucified Jesus, not the Jews.

Where is your temple?

Ben Masada
October 2nd, 2015, 02:26 PM
You have boasted that the Jews had the old law. You have claimed there is no new covenant. As I have explained to you before, anyone could have converted to the old covenant. God promised things to Abraham and to his blood descendants because God loved Abraham. God does not save anyone according to whom they are blood related to, except those who are covered by the blood of Jesus.

See John 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Natural descent is about blood relations.

I have never claimed here or anywhere else that there is no New Covenant. As I can see, you have a loose tongue to slander. I have rather and for many times posted the New Covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah in Jer. 31:31. Perhaps you are frustrated that the text does not mention the Gentiles. As I said before, if you have an issue with us about this one too, take it with God, not with us.

kayaker
October 2nd, 2015, 02:32 PM
1 - And the real answer was that his own disciples did it whereas unaware of what they were doing. (Luke 19:37-40)

2 - This is a reference to the catastrophic occurrences of rapes perpetrated by Romans in Israel in the First Century.

3 - No, I would not say but the Hellenists who wrote the gospels found many reasons to say so.

Ben... Ben... Your theology has Been around since shortly after the Ark landed. Before, actually (Genesis 4:8, 9, 10), but another time, perhaps (Matthew 23:35 KJV). You do entirely crack me up, though! And, I sincerely appreciate your presence on TOL, seriously. The ISRAELITE Jews didn't instigate the crucifixion (Revelation 2:9, 3:9), although there certainly were Israelite Jewish tagalongs (Acts 2:22 KJV, Acts 2:23 KJV) following along behind that "untoward generation" (Acts 2:40 KJV). Who was that "untoward generation", anyway, Ben?

Those who instigated the crucifixion were your ancestors: Descendants of Judah via his "Canaantiess" wife (1Chronicles 2:3, Genesis 38:1, 2). Your ancestors certainly were entitled to refer to themselves as Jews from a theological perspective. I mean, I circumcise a boar before tossing him in the smoker with a rather stunned look chiseled on his face, lol.

Those CIRCUMCISED Shelanite (Genesis 38:1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 26; Numbers 26:20), NON-Israelite (John 8:33 KJV) descendants of Isaiah's prophesied Messianic progenitor (Isaiah 65:9) were waiting for their messiah from their endless genealogy. But, of course, Jesus was a descendant of Isaiah's Messianic progenitor (Isaiah 65:9) and his daughter-in-law, Tamar (Genesis 38:24, 29, 30; Matthew 1:3 KJV, Luke 3:33 KJV). And, your ancestors were waiting for Him with baited breath since Genesis 3:14, 15, Genesis 4:7, 8, 9 (Matthew 23:30 KJV, Matthew 23:31 KJV, Matthew 23:33 KJV, Matthew 23:34 KJV, Matthew 23:35 KJV; John 8:28 KJV, John 8:37 KJV, John 8:41 KJV, John 8:44 KJV, John 8:47 KJV).

I don't think those circumcised mamzerim (progeny of a forbidden marriage, Deuteronomy 23:2 KJV) Shelanite accusers of their Israelite brethren took too well to the documented realization they were not really God's chosen after all... God's chosen were the Israelite Jews (Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9, 10). God told those pre-conquest Israelites to wipe your ancestors off the face of the Promised Land (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3). Really interesting who those ancestral Israelites were running with, that "untoward generation" (Acts 2:40 KJV) that instigated the crucifixion of Jesus (Acts 2:22 KJV, Acts 2:23 KJV) that Peter warned those Israelite Jews about!

So, please be explicit, Ben. Who was that "untoward generation" that instigated the crucifixion of Jesus?

kayaker

God's Truth
October 2nd, 2015, 07:47 PM
I have never claimed here or anywhere else that there is no New Covenant. As I can see, you have a loose tongue to slander. I have rather and for many times posted the New Covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah in Jer. 31:31. Perhaps you are frustrated that the text does not mention the Gentiles. As I said before, if you have an issue with us about this one too, take it with God, not with us.

You are not telling the truth about me, you are telling only about yourself. You are the slanderer. You are exactly what you falsely accuse me of being.

God told us in the old testament that the Gentiles would be saved.

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.

Apostle Paul even quotes Psalm 117:1 to let the Gentiles know that it was said in the Old Testament that they would be brought near to God one day.

Romans 15:11 And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."

John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.


Jesus was prophesied about in the Old Testament. Jesus was written about in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms (Luke 24:44).

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Prophecies of Jesus fulfilled, as shown by Gentiles believing in God---

so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: “therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name.”
Again, it says,
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.”
And again,
“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles,
And sing praises to him, all you
Peoples.”
And again, Isaiah says,
“The Root of Jesse will spring up,
one who will arise to rule over the
Nations;
The Gentiles will hope in him.”

Read this Old Testament scripture, it is quoted in the New Testament:

2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Romans 15:9
and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing the praises of your name."

...And these scriptures:

Romans 15:11
And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.

Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."

God's Truth
October 2nd, 2015, 07:51 PM
God does not care to whom you are blood related.

The Jews sinned just like the Gentiles.

Just look at all the many scriptures where God pleads with the sinful Jews who would not listen to Him.

Ben Masada
October 3rd, 2015, 10:53 AM
Ben... Ben... Your theology has Been around since shortly after the Ark landed. Before, actually (Genesis 4:8, 9, 10), but another time, perhaps (Matthew 23:35 KJV). You do entirely crack me up, though! And, I sincerely appreciate your presence on TOL, seriously. The ISRAELITE Jews didn't instigate the crucifixion (Revelation 2:9, 3:9), although there certainly were Israelite Jewish tagalongs (Acts 2:22 KJV, Acts 2:23 KJV) following along behind that "untoward generation" (Acts 2:40 KJV). Who was that "untoward generation", anyway, Ben?

Those who instigated the crucifixion were your ancestors: Descendants of Judah via his "Canaantiess" wife (1Chronicles 2:3, Genesis 38:1, 2). Your ancestors certainly were entitled to refer to themselves as Jews from a theological perspective. I mean, I circumcise a boar before tossing him in the smoker with a rather stunned look chiseled on his face, lol.

Those CIRCUMCISED Shelanite (Genesis 38:1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 26; Numbers 26:20), NON-Israelite (John 8:33 KJV) descendants of Isaiah's prophesied Messianic progenitor (Isaiah 65:9) were waiting for their messiah from their endless genealogy. But, of course, Jesus was a descendant of Isaiah's Messianic progenitor (Isaiah 65:9) and his daughter-in-law, Tamar (Genesis 38:24, 29, 30; Matthew 1:3 KJV, Luke 3:33 KJV). And, your ancestors were waiting for Him with baited breath since Genesis 3:14, 15, Genesis 4:7, 8, 9 (Matthew 23:30 KJV, Matthew 23:31 KJV, Matthew 23:33 KJV, Matthew 23:34 KJV, Matthew 23:35 KJV; John 8:28 KJV, John 8:37 KJV, John 8:41 KJV, John 8:44 KJV, John 8:47 KJV).

I don't think those circumcised mamzerim (progeny of a forbidden marriage, Deuteronomy 23:2 KJV) Shelanite accusers of their Israelite brethren took too well to the documented realization they were not really God's chosen after all... God's chosen were the Israelite Jews (Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9, 10). God told those pre-conquest Israelites to wipe your ancestors off the face of the Promised Land (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3). Really interesting who those ancestral Israelites were running with, that "untoward generation" (Acts 2:40 KJV) that instigated the crucifixion of Jesus (Acts 2:22 KJV, Acts 2:23 KJV) that Peter warned those Israelite Jews about!

So, please be explicit, Ben. Who was that "untoward generation" that instigated the crucifixion of Jesus?

kayaker

I am sorry Kayaker, but I have no idea where you are coming from with these ideas above. The only thing I detect is that you are trying to defend the Church of Paul that still to this day promotes the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. The NT is quite clear that Jesus was arrested and charged with the political cause of insurrection to proclaim Jesus as king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem which at the time was a Roman province. (Luke 19:37-40)

I do not understand why you are still speaking about a split of Judah after the split between Israel and Judah. This is in the Tanach but not that which you are talking about. BTW, to make things short, in spite of your self-identification of Jewishness, I found nothing Jewish in this post of yours above. Please, no offense meant.

Caino
October 3rd, 2015, 11:36 AM
Why did the Jews Kill Jesus?

Yesterday I was asked why the Jews had killed Jesus. The Jews did not take part in the killing of Jesus. If you are looking for some one to blame, ask me and I will give you a group.

Do you know the meaning of those 4 initials on that plate nailed on the top of Jesus' cross? I am talking about INRI. That's a verdict which means that Jesus was crucified on a political charge for having been acclaimed king of the Jews in Jerusalem which was a charge bordering on insurrection.

The people who were acclaiming Jesus king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem were Jesus' own disciples. With the intent to save him from being arrested, the Pharisees asked him to stop his disciples with that nonsense and Jesus said that if they stopped, the stones would shout.

All right, soon afterwards, Jesus was arrested, judged before Pilate and condemned to the cross. That's in Luke 19:37-40. Besides, the Jews could not have killed Jesus and much less on the cross because the power of jurisdiction had been taken from Israel as Rome took over the Land. A death sentence passed on any one in Israel at the time would have been an act of insurrection. Therefore, Jesus' own disciples caused the death of Jesus, not the Jews in general.

* During the times of Jesus the Sanhedrin was the ruling body over the province of Judea but under Roman occupation. It was comprised of 70 men from the chief priests, elders and scribes.

* Jesus' liberating theology was a threat to Judaisms Temple's profiteering establishment as well as theological control.

* It was the Sanhedren who put Jesus through a trumped up farce of a trial and found him guilty! It was the Jewish priest class who continually sent out spies to keep an eye on Jesus activities and then to trip him up when he developed a following. But the Jews didn't have the authority to carry out the death penalty, for that they had to go to Pilate. A nervous Pilate had no interest in Jesus so he punted to Herod. Herod sent Jesus back to Pilate. Pilate succumb to cowardlyness and attempted to please the Jews, who had him by the short hairs, and the crowds.

The Right Wing religious people of the day killed Jesus!

The Jews who were responsible have paid the price for what happened Jews and Jedaism today are in no way resposible for what happened 2,000 years ago. Jesus forgave them.

Ben Masada
October 3rd, 2015, 11:45 AM
You are not telling the truth about me, you are telling only about yourself. You are the slanderer. You are exactly what you falsely accuse me of being.

God told us in the old testament that the Gentiles would be saved.

Luke 24:47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.

Apostle Paul even quotes Psalm 117:1 to let the Gentiles know that it was said in the Old Testament that they would be brought near to God one day.

Romans 15:11 And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."

John 4:42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, takes away the sin of the world!

1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.


Jesus was prophesied about in the Old Testament. Jesus was written about in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms (Luke 24:44).

Isaiah 53:4 Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Prophecies of Jesus fulfilled, as shown by Gentiles believing in God---

so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written: “therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing hymns to your name.”
Again, it says,
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people.”
And again,
“Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles,
And sing praises to him, all you
Peoples.”
And again, Isaiah says,
“The Root of Jesse will spring up,
one who will arise to rule over the
Nations;
The Gentiles will hope in him.”

Read this Old Testament scripture, it is quoted in the New Testament:

2 Samuel 22:50 Therefore I will praise you, LORD, among the nations; I will sing the praises of your name.

Romans 15:9
and, moreover, that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy. As it is written: "Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles; I will sing the praises of your name."

...And these scriptures:

Romans 15:11
And again, "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; let all the peoples extol him."

Psalm 117:1 Praise the LORD, all you nations; extol him, all you peoples.

Psalm 66:4 All the earth bows down to you; they sing praise to you, they sing the praises of your name."

The Gentiles will surely be accepted but according to Isa. 56:1-8 and
if they speak the truth according to Isa. 8:20.

God's Truth
October 3rd, 2015, 11:47 AM
The Gentiles will surely be accepted but according to Isa. 56:1-8 and
if they speak the truth according to Isa. 8:20.

They have to be cleaned by blood.

Ben Masada
October 3rd, 2015, 12:04 PM
*
1 - During the times of Jesus the Sanhedrin was the ruling body over the province of Judea but under Roman occupation. It was comprised of 70 men from the chief priests, elders and scribes.

2 - * Jesus' liberating theology was a threat to Judaisms Temple's profiteering establishment as well as theological control.

3 - * It was the Sanhedren who put Jesus through a trumped up farce of a trial and found him guilty! It was the Jewish priest class who continually sent out spies to keep an eye on Jesus activities and then to trip him up when he developed a following. But the Jews didn't have the authority to carry out the death penalty, for that they had to go to Pilate. A nervous Pilate had no interest in Jesus so he punted to Herod. Herod sent Jesus back to Pilate. Pilate succumb to cowardlyness and attempted to please the Jews, who had him by the short hairs, and the crowds.

4 - The Right Wing religious people of the day killed Jesus!

5 - The Jews who were responsible have paid the price for what happened Jews and Jedaism today are in no way resposiblevphave for what happened 2,000 years ago. Jesus forgave them.

1 - Yes, but the Sanhedrin was too restrict, for instance, they could not pass a death sentence on no one for their jurisdiction had been taken from them by the Romans.

2 - Jesus was religious loyal Jew and for that, he could never be a threat to his Faith which was Judaism.

3 - Only an anti-Jewish Christian with preconceived notions is able to believe all that. Rather the opposite was true that the Pharisees for instance, twice tried to save Jesus from being arrested and taken to the cross: First, it was from Herod if you read Luke 13:31 and the second time around was from Pilate if you read Luke 19:37-40.

4 - That's absolutely not true. The most important and vital thing in the heart of a Jew is God's Law and Jesus came to confirm it down to the letter. (Mat. 5:17-19) He even implied once that the only way
to escape hell-fire was to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. How could religious Jews want such a man dead? It makes no sense.

Ben Masada
October 3rd, 2015, 12:09 PM
*
1 - During the times of Jesus the Sanhedrin was the ruling body over the province of Judea but under Roman occupation. It was comprised of 70 men from the chief priests, elders and scribes.

2 - * Jesus' liberating theology was a threat to Judaisms Temple's profiteering establishment as well as theological control.

3 - * It was the Sanhedren who put Jesus through a trumped up farce of a trial and found him guilty! It was the Jewish priest class who continually sent out spies to keep an eye on Jesus activities and then to trip him up when he developed a following. But the Jews didn't have the authority to carry out the death penalty, for that they had to go to Pilate. A nervous Pilate had no interest in Jesus so he punted to Herod. Herod sent Jesus back to Pilate. Pilate succumb to cowardlyness and attempted to please the Jews, who had him by the short hairs, and the crowds.

4 - The Right Wing religious people of the day killed Jesus!

5 - The Jews who were responsible have paid the price for what happened Jews and Jedaism today are in no way resposiblevphave for what happened 2,000 years ago. Jesus forgave them.

1 - Yes, but the Sanhedrin was too restrict, for instance, they could not pass a death sentence on no one for their jurisdiction had been taken from them by the Romans.

2 - Jesus was a religious loyal Jew and for that, he could never be a threat to his Faith which was Judaism.

3 - Only an anti-Jewish Christian with preconceived notions is able to believe all that. Rather the opposite was true that the Pharisees for instance, twice tried to save Jesus from being arrested and taken to the cross: First, it was from Herod if you read Luke 13:31 and the second time around was from Pilate if you read Luke 19:37-40.

4 - That's absolutely not true. The most important and vital thing in the heart of a Jew is God's Law and Jesus came to confirm it down to the letter. (Mat. 5:17-19) He even implied once that the only way to escape hell-fire was by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. How could religious Jews want such a man dead? It makes no sense.

5 - The only responsible people for the death of Jesus were on the one hand, Jesus' own disciples who proclaimed Jesus king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem according to Luke 19:37-40 and on the other hand, the Romans who actually did the killing.

Caino
October 3rd, 2015, 01:17 PM
1 - Yes, but the Sanhedrin was too restrict, for instance, they could not pass a death sentence on no one for their jurisdiction had been taken from them by the Romans.

2 - Jesus was religious loyal Jew and for that, he could never be a threat to his Faith which was Judaism.

3 - Only an anti-Jewish Christian with preconceived notions is able to believe all that. Rather the opposite was true that the Pharisees for instance, twice tried to save Jesus from being arrested and taken to the cross: First, it was from Herod if you read Luke 13:31 and the second time around was from Pilate if you read Luke 19:37-40.

4 - That's absolutely not true. The most important and vital thing in the heart of a Jew is God's Law and Jesus came to confirm it down to the letter. (Mat. 5:17-19) He even implied once that the only way
to escape hell-fire was to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. How could religious Jews want such a man dead? It makes no sense.

Why would it be so hard to believe what I wrote, you, a Jew, spend considerable time on this forum trying to discredit Jesus!?!? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Your ideological counterparts tried the same thing on Jesus 2,000 years ago. :doh:

aikido7
October 3rd, 2015, 01:37 PM
It is not mine it is God's Truth.

You do not believe the Holy Bible. You do not believe that God reserved His written Word exactly as we have it in the Holy Bible.

You are the one with the man made beliefs you claim those who believe the Holy Bible have.The Bible was written by men, inspired by God. The contradictions, discrepancies and different translations of the book we call "the Bible" are common-sense indicators that God's revelations are mediated through imperfect humans.

Why are the words Rome tacked up on the cross different in each of our four gospels? It was an imperial proclamation that anyone could have copied down exactly and passed it on without confusion. The question should be "Why is God's Bible showing different words to different evangelists?" The common sense answer is that the Bible was written by men.

I believe the Bible, but I take it as it is.

God's Truth
October 3rd, 2015, 01:48 PM
The Bible was written by men, inspired by God. The contradictions, discrepancies and different translations of the book we call "the Bible" are common-sense indicators that God's revelations are mediated through imperfect humans.

Why are the words Rome tacked up on the cross different in each of our four gospels? It was an imperial proclamation that anyone could have copied down exactly and passed it on without confusion. The question should be "Why is God's Bible showing different words to different evangelists?" The common sense answer is that the Bible was written by men.

I believe the Bible, but I take it as it is.

I have no idea how you get that it was different in each of the gospel books.

kayaker
October 3rd, 2015, 02:58 PM
I am sorry Kayaker, but I have no idea where you are coming from with these ideas above. The only thing I detect is that you are trying to defend the Church of Paul that still to this day promotes the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

The replacement theology in those days was that Messiah had to be a descendant of Judah via his Canaanitess wife (Genesis 38:1, 2; 1Chronicles 2:3). Jesus was a descendant of Judah and his daughter-in-law Tamar (Matthew 1:3, Luke 3:33) in a relationship contrary to Leviticus 18:15 KJV, Leviticus 20:12 KJV, Leviticus 21:7, 9, 13, 14. According to Levitical law, Jesus couldn't be Messiah.


The NT is quite clear that Jesus was arrested and charged with the political cause of insurrection to proclaim Jesus as king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem which at the time was a Roman province. (Luke 19:37-40)

Indeed, and Pilate found nothing to worthy to put Jesus to death: Luke 23:13, 14, 15. Who was that "untoward generation" responsible for instigating the crucifixion, then (Acts 2:22, 23, Acts 2:40 KJV)? They weren't Israelite Jews, Ben: John 8:33 KJV, John 8:37 KJV, John 8:39 KJV. Those circumcised non-Israelite instigators were "Abraham's seed" (John 8:33 KJV, John 8:37 KJV) being descendants of Judah via his Canaanitess wife (Genesis 38:1, 2; 1Chronicles 2:3). Judah's father-in-law was Shuah, one of "the children of Abraham" (Genesis 25:1, 2, 3, 4). Well, Jesus didn't seem to think that "untoward generation" (Acts 2:40 KJV) were "Abraham's children" either, btw (John 8:39 KJV).

Abraham only had two "sons" (Genesis 25:9 KJV, Galatians 4:22 KJV), and Judah's Canaanite father-in-law (Genesis 38:2) wasn't as "son" of Abraham... Shuah was one of Abraham's mamzerim progeny via his Canaanite wife, Keturah (Deuteronomy 7:3, Deuteronomy 23:3 KJV). Therefore, Judah's Shelanite progeny (Genesis 38:26 KJV, Numbers 26:20) via his Canaanitess wife were also mamzerim (Deuteronomy 23:2 KJV). Jesus was a descendant of Judah and his daughter-in-law, Tamar (Matthew 1:3 KJV, Luke 3:33). That was the quandary of Jesus' day, Ben: Would Messiah be a descendant of Isaiah's Messianic progenitor (Isaiah 65:9) via his Canaanitess wife, speaking of endless genealogies? Or, would Messiah arrive via Judah's daughter-in-law, Tamar?


I do not understand why you are still speaking about a split of Judah after the split between Israel and Judah. This is in the Tanach but not that which you are talking about.

Judah's surviving Shelanite progeny (Numbers 26:20) were conceived in a forbidden marriage as noted in Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, and corroborated by Ezra some 1,400 years later in Ezra 9:1, 2, as being a "great trespass" in Ezra 9:7 KJV. How then do you NOT perceive a split in Judah? How do you 'legitimize' Judah's Shelanite progeny of a forbidden marriage with particular emphasis on Deuteronomy 7:3 KJV? Jesus' arrival (John 3:1, 2) 'legitimized' the fatherless (Genesis 38:26 KJV) lost sheep Pharzites (and Zarhites, Genesis 38:29, 30) from whom Jesus descended (Matthew 1:3 KJV, Luke 3:33), and to whom Jesus was sent (Matthew 10:6 KJV, Matthew 15:22, 23, 24).


BTW, to make things short, in spite of your self-identification of Jewishness, I found nothing Jewish in this post of yours above. Please, no offense meant.

No offense taken in the least, Ben... such is clearly not a typical theme in your character. Does one have to have a particular ancestry to be called a "Jew" in you circles? I've been cut, and I study the Books of Moshe. My adoption papers, being an heir to God's promises to Abraham, were signed in Jesus' authentic Pharzite-Israelite Jewish blood. When I 'put on Christ', I became an heir counted among God's chosen Israelite Jews noted in Deuteronomy 7:6, 7, 8, 9, 10. Were you "born" a Jew? Or does one become a "Jew" following the Talmud?

Again, Ben: How do you 'legitimize' Isaiah's Messianic progenitor's (Isaiah 65:9 KJV) mamzerim progeny (Deuteronomy 23:2 KJV) via his Canaanitess wife (1Chronicles 2:3) conceived in a forbidden marriage contrary to Deuteronomy 7:3 KJV, and Ezra 9:7 KJV? I've Scripturally corroborated THEY were the ones who instigated Jesus' crucifixion, not the Israelite Jews!

kayaker

Ben Masada
October 6th, 2015, 10:42 AM
Why would it be so hard to believe what I wrote, you, a Jew, spend considerable time on this forum trying to discredit Jesus!?!? :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Your ideological counterparts tried the same thing on Jesus 2,000 years ago. :doh:

Interesting to notice, rather the opposite is true that you are the one trying to describe Jesus as a Greek and discrediting him as a Jew. But I don't blame you as you are only walking on the steps of Paul aka his gospel.

Caino
October 7th, 2015, 04:39 AM
Interesting to notice, rather the opposite is true that you are the one trying to describe Jesus as a Greek and discrediting him as a Jew. But I don't blame you as you are only walking on the steps of Paul aka his gospel.

You are hearing things I never said. Jesus was born Jewish, he was raised in Judaism, he followed the reasonable requirements of the Law minus the obsessive compulsive racial arrogance of religious fanatics whose distinguished calling went to their heads.

Paul had his own Ideas, I follow the original gospel Jesus had hoped the Jews would adopt, it was their calling, they would be preaching that gospel to the world today from Jerusalem. But they were spiritually confused. Today Jerusalem is a museum to a broken covenant on behalf of a dense people.

lukecash12
October 7th, 2015, 05:26 AM
Jesus Christ orchestrated His own death out of the necessity that He make atonement for our sins. It is only He who wasn't ignorant of what was actually happening at the time ("Father forgive them"). The Jews and the Romans alike played into God's plan of redemption.

"Why did the Jews kill Jesus?" We killed Jesus, when we sinned in Adam. The Jews had an illegal trial, and the Romans carried out an execution based on false premises, because they were broken people not fully in the likeness of God. This was because of the Fall.

God's Truth
October 7th, 2015, 05:55 AM
Jesus Christ orchestrated His own death out of the necessity that He make atonement for our sins. It is only He who wasn't ignorant of what was actually happening at the time ("Father forgive them"). The Jews and the Romans alike played into God's plan of redemption.

"Why did the Jews kill Jesus?" We killed Jesus, when we sinned in Adam. The Jews had an illegal trial, and the Romans carried out an execution based on false premises, because they were broken people not fully in the likeness of God. This was because of the Fall.

Please tell me, why not say what the written word of God says?

You say "we" killed Jesus.

The SCRIPTURES SAY the "Men of Israel"; "The Jews"; with the help of wicked men.

Acts 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.


Acts 2:36
"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah."


Acts 3: 12 When Peter saw this, he said to them: "Men of Israel, why does this surprise you? Why do you stare at us as if by our own power or godliness we had made this man walk?
13 The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

Acts 5: 27 Having brought the apostles, they made them appear before the Sanhedrin to be questioned by the high priest. 28 "We gave you strict orders not to teach in this name," he said. "Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and are determined to make us guilty of this man's blood." 29 Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men! 30 The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead--whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For you, brothers, became imitators of God's churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own countrymen the same things those churches suffered from the Jews, 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.

Ben Masada
October 7th, 2015, 11:42 AM
You are hearing things I never said. Jesus was born Jewish, he was raised in Judaism, he followed the reasonable requirements of the Law minus the obsessive compulsive racial arrogance of religious fanatics whose distinguished calling went to their heads.

Paul had his own Ideas, I follow the original gospel Jesus had hoped the Jews would adopt, it was their calling, they would be preaching that gospel to the world today from Jerusalem. But they were spiritually confused. Today Jerusalem is a museum to a broken covenant on behalf of a dense people.

I wish you used your own NT to quote to me as evidences that other religious Jews, opposite to Jesus, were obsessive, compulsive, racial and arrogant in their religious fanaticism. IMHO, you could be misreading the text if they are not only attacks from anti-Jewish Hellenists former disciples of Paul. Would you be able to mention a few quotes or your verbal juggling is only from hear-say?

Ben Masada
October 7th, 2015, 12:00 PM
Jesus Christ orchestrated His own death out of the necessity that He make atonement for our sins. It is only He who wasn't ignorant of what was actually happening at the time ("Father forgive them"). The Jews and the Romans alike played into God's plan of redemption.

"Why did the Jews kill Jesus?" We killed Jesus, when we sinned in Adam. The Jews had an illegal trial, and the Romans carried out an execution based on false premises, because they were broken people not fully in the likeness of God. This was because of the Fall.

There was no necessity for such alleged atonement. It would be rather a contradiction to the Prophets who say that no one can die to make atonement for another. Read Jer. 31:30; Ezek. 18:20.

If we killed Jesus when we sinned in Adam, why blame the Jews with the death of Jesus? Why not to blame us all as you are doing now? Because of this atrocious anti-Semitic attitude we have lost Jews by the millions throughout History by means of pogroms, blood libels, Crusades, Inquisition and the Holocaust.

The Jews did not submit Jesus to any trial at all. The Sanhedrin did not work that way, neither at night and not with less than 70 members; and much less within such a short time.

If the Jews were a broken People and not fully in the likeness of God who were or are in the likeness of God, the Gentiles? Now, I wonder why Jesus himself forbade his disciples not to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles. (Mat. 10:5,6)

Caino
October 7th, 2015, 01:00 PM
I wish you used your own NT to quote to me as evidences that other religious Jews, opposite to Jesus, were obsessive, compulsive, racial and arrogant in their religious fanaticism. IMHO, you could be misreading the text if they are not only attacks from anti-Jewish Hellenists former disciples of Paul. Would you be able to mention a few quotes or your verbal juggling is only from hear-say?

Compulsive ceremonial hand washing by the anal retentive religious:





37Now when He had spoken, a Pharisee asked Him to have lunch with him; and He went in, and reclined at the table. 38When the Pharisee saw it, he was surprised that He had not first ceremonially washed before the meal. 39But the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the platter; but inside of you, you are full of robbery and wickedness.…

Quibbling legalisms by the fanatics who saw disciple's plucking grain for personal consumption to be some sort of Sabbath violation. Its just silly madness!






23And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. 24The Pharisees were saying to Him, "Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?"…


Then we have the rocket surgeons from the temple who are so dense in their man made religion that they conclude Jesus can drive out demons because he gets power from Satan????


At the fake trial of Jesus corrupt teachers and leaders tried to put some fake witnesses together but they couldn't even get them to agree.

Ben Masada
October 9th, 2015, 11:55 AM
[quote]Compulsive ceremonial hand washing by the anal retentive religious:

Now, you are totally wrong. Judaism is not a religion but a way of life for the Jew.


Now when He had spoken, a Pharisee asked Him to have lunch with him; and He went in, and reclined at the table. When the Pharisee saw it, he was surprised that He had not first ceremonially washed before the meal. But the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the platter; but inside of you, you are full of robbery and wickedness.…

This is a slander. Never happened. Probably a pious forgery to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Jesus was a Jew just like the Pharisees and washed himself before any meal. Don't forget that he observed the laws down to the letter. (Mat. 5:17-19)


Quibbling legalisms by the fanatics who saw disciple's plucking grain for personal consumption to be some sort of Sabbath violation. Its just silly madness!

The disciples of Jesus were Jews just as he was. They would not collect grains on the Sabbath. Any one can see that there is no boundary to anti-Jewish attacks falsely for the sake of Jesus. (Mat. 5:11)


And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. The Pharisees were saying to Him, Look, why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath? (/quote]

And you keep repeating the slander over and over again as if by doing so, you might gain some new adepts.

[quote]Then we have the rocket surgeons from the temple who are so dense in their man made religion that they conclude Jesus can drive out demons because he gets power from Satan?

Again, you continue totally wrong! Jesus himself as a Jew did not believe in Satan or demons. Satan is only a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man.


At the fake trial of Jesus corrupt teachers and leaders tried to put some fake witnesses together but they couldn't even get them to agree.

Now, here is the evidence that you are totally wrong: The opposite is rather true that the Pharisees rather tried twice to save Jesus from being arrested and sent to the cross. The first time was from Herod if you read Luke 13:31 and, the second time around was from Pilate if you read Luke 19:37-40. But of course, you would not waste your time trying to check for some thing positive about the Jews.

Ben Masada
October 9th, 2015, 12:00 PM
[quote]Compulsive ceremonial hand washing by the anal retentive religious:

Now, you are totally wrong. Judaism is not a religion but a way of life for the Jew.


Now when He had spoken, a Pharisee asked Him to have lunch with him; and He went in, and reclined at the table. When the Pharisee saw it, he was surprised that He had not first ceremonially washed before the meal. But the Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and of the platter; but inside of you, you are full of robbery and wickedness.…

This is a slander. It never happened. This is probably a pious forgery to promote the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Jesus was a Jew just like the Pharisees and washed himself before any meal. Don't forget that he observed the laws down to the letter. (Mat. 5:17-19)


Quibbling legalisms by the fanatics who saw disciple's plucking grain for personal consumption to be some sort of Sabbath violation. Its just silly madness!

The disciples of Jesus were Jews just as he was. They would not collect grains on the Sabbath. Any one can see that there is no boundary to anti-Jewish attacks falsely for the sake of Jesus. (Mat. 5:11)


And it happened that He was passing through the grainfields on the Sabbath, and His disciples began to make their way along while picking the heads of grain. The Pharisees were saying to Him, Look why are they doing what is not lawful on the Sabbath?

And you keep repeating the slander over and over again as if by doing so, you might gain some new adepts.


Then we have the rocket surgeons from the temple who are so dense in their man made religion that they conclude Jesus can drive out demons because he gets power from Satan?

Again, you continue totally wrong! Jesus himself as a Jew did not believe in Satan or demons. Satan is only a concept to illustrate the evil inclination in man.


At the fake trial of Jesus corrupt teachers and leaders tried to put some fake witnesses together but they couldn't even get them to agree.

Now, here is the evidence that you are totally wrong: The opposite is rather true that the Pharisees rather tried twice to save Jesus from being arrested and sent to the cross. The first time was from Herod if you read Luke 13:31 and, the second time around was from Pilate if you read Luke 19:37-40. But of course, you would not waste your time trying to check for some thing positive about the Jews.