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OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 07:48 PM
The POPE just prayed to HOLY Mary MOTHER OF GOD for Protection

in front of Millions of Americans

and asks for St. Joseph to Pray for him .

-- Pagan Catholic Prayer Worshipping Mary instead of Praying to GOD.

--And Who the heck is St. Joseph ; some dead guy ???:noid:
=================================

OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 07:51 PM
I Told you the Catholics are NOT Christians but Pagan Idol Worshippers.

OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 07:57 PM
It is not the speaker of the Love of God

but the Doer of God's Commandments and Obedience to God the Father.

NOT THE POPE

aikido7
September 26th, 2015, 08:02 PM
The POPE just prayed to HOLY Mary MOTHER OF GOD for Protection

in front of Millions of Americans

and asks for St. Joseph to Pray for him .

-- Pagan Catholic Prayer Worshipping Mary instead of Praying to GOD.

--And Who the heck is St. Joseph ; some dead guy ???:noid:
=================================The focus on Mary is a way of acknowledging the feminine side of God.

Jesus as the "child of wisdom"--wisdom being the Jewish divine helpmeet of God named Sophia.

The woman in Jesus's parable who added leaven to her bread dough and ended up demonstrating the Kingdom of God.

The many women as leaders of early churches that are mentioned in the letters of Paul.

The Christian focus on Mary Magdeline in the gospels.

The consensus of historians that conjecture that several women followed Jesus and provided money or housing or a place of worship for followers.

The God of repentance and mercy which are feminine traits, as opposed to the God of justice and divine ethnic cleansing.

That the Pope somehow "worships" Mary is a paranoid conspiratorial fantasy. And based on Islam and Christian fudamentalism the world is moving beyond such anti-intellectual thinking.

OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 08:09 PM
HEY KIDDO-7

Well then, if God agrees with the Popes Prayer,

then WHY is God going to DESTROY BILLIONS of Catholic People

when HE comes to this Earth ???????????????


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:

depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

AV-iniquity 12, unrighteousness , transgression of the law
---------------------------------------------------------------
Acts 7:42 Then God gave them up to worship the host of heaven;

Jeremiah 44:17 But we will certainly burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her,

Jeremiah 44:25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye have spoken with your mouths saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her:

lukecash12
September 26th, 2015, 08:18 PM
I may not be Catholic myself, but I do believe that Catholicism is heavily misunderstood by Evangelicals and Protestants in general. Given that I'd like to present some Catholic concepts to shine light on this dark tunnel:

Any careful understanding of their theological literature will turn up the fact that Catholics do not worship saints, even Mary. Their high regard towards and communication with saints, as they understand it, is an expression of the two different parts of the Church.

These two different parts of the Church are the Church Militant and Church Reformed. We are the Church Militant, fighting the spiritual battle because we now reside in the battlefield itself. The Church Reformed is composed of those who have been glorified and now worship at the Great White Throne, where the Lord is.

Keeping that in mind, the whole concept behind sending prayers to saints is not that the saints themselves are objects of worship. By virtue of being glorified, the end result of God's sanctification, and by virtue of residing next to the Great White Throne itself, Catholic theologians reason that the saints are in a better position to communicate with the Lord Himself.

Prayers sent to saints are ultimately prayers intended for God, the difference being that saints act as intermediaries in the Catholic mind. This is because Catholics have temerity at addressing themselves to the Lord Himself, considering it an improper course because they are not yet glorified.

lukecash12
September 26th, 2015, 08:19 PM
AKIDO-7

Well then, if God agrees with the Popes Prayer,

then WHY is God going to DESTROY BILLIONS of Catholic People

when HE comes to this Earth ???????????????


Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:

depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

AV-iniquity 12, unrighteousness , transgression of the law

Let me know when you find the words "billions" and "Catholic" in the Word.

aikido7
September 26th, 2015, 08:23 PM
AKIDO-7

Well then, if God agrees with the Popes Prayer,

then WHY is God going to DESTROY BILLIONS of Catholic People

when HE comes to this Earth ???????????????

Jesus never said he was going to destroy Catholics. The all-too-human revenge fantasies Christians often entertain are the wishes of a group that feels persecuted and marginalized--a silly thought in a heavily Christianized world.

Jesus has already come to this Earth. God has already won.
"The Kingdom of God is in your midst, but men do not see it."



Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Anyone anywhere--any member of a religious faith--deserves the kingdom of heaven ON EARTH as it is in Heaven if they are trying to live within it.


Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?Being religious is not what Jesus was talking about. Anyone can do that and profess a list of ancient theological formulations.

Jesus calls us to something better.


Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you:

depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

AV-iniquity 12, unrighteousness , transgression of the lawI can't blame Matthew for saying this at all. His community of believers was obviously beset from within and without by those who did not follow Jesus.

And they wanted a Jesus who spoke to their own time and specific problems.

OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 08:39 PM
LUCASCASH-12

Catholics are People who do NOT OBEY JESUS' WORDS.
-------------------------------------------------------------

New International Version
I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir.

King James Bible
I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

Young's Literal Translation
I make man more rare than fine gold, And a common man than pure gold of Ophir.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

13:6-18 We have here the terrible desolation of Babylon by the Medes and Persians. Those who in the day of their peace were proud, and haughty, and terrible, are quite dispirited when trouble comes. Their faces shall be scorched with the flame. All comfort and hope shall fail. The stars of heaven shall not give their light, the sun shall be darkened. Such expressions are often employed by the prophets, to describe the convulsions of governments. God will visit them for their iniquity, particularly the sin of pride, which brings men low. There shall be a general scene of horror. Those who join themselves to Babylon, must expect to share her plagues, Re 18:4. All that men have, they would give for their lives, but no man's riches shall be the ransom of his life. Pause here and wonder that men should be thus cruel and inhuman, and see how corrupt the nature of man is become. And that little infants thus suffer, which shows that there is an original guilt, by which life is forfeited as soon as it is begun. The day of the Lord will, indeed, be terrible with wrath and fierce anger, far beyond all here stated. Nor will there be any place for the sinner to flee to, or attempt an escape. But few act as though they believed these things.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 12. - I will make a man more precious than fine gold (comp. Isaiah 4:1). Population shall he so diminished that man shall be the most highly esteemed of commodities. The more scanty the supply of a thing, the greater its value. The golden wedge of Ophir; rather, pure gold of Ophir. Ophir is mentioned as a gold-region in 1 Kings 9:28; 1 Kings 10:11; 1 Kings 22:48; 1 Chronicles 29:4; 2 Chronicles 8:18; 2 Chronicles 9:10; Job 22:24; Job 28:16; Psalm 45:9. Its locality is uncertain. Gold of Ophir appears to have been considered especially pure.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

I will make a man more precious than fine gold,.... Which may denote either the scarcity of men in Babylon, through the slaughter made of them; so things that are scarce and rare are said to be precious, 1 Samuel 3:1 or the resolution of the Medes to spare none, though ever so much gold were offered to them, they being not to be bribed therewith, Isaiah 13:17 or that such should be the fear of men, that they would not be prevailed upon to take up arms to defend themselves or their king, whatever quantity of gold, even the best, was proposed unto them, a man was not to be got for money:

even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir; which designs the same thing in different words. The Targum gives another sense of the whole, paraphrasing it thus,

"I will love them that fear me more than gold, of which men glory; and those that keep the law more than the fine gold of Ophir;''

understanding it of the Israelites, that were in Babylon when it was taken, and who were precious and in high esteem with the Medes and Persians, more than gold, and whose lives they spared. Jarchi interprets it particularly of Daniel, and of the honour that was done him by Belshazzar, upon his reading and interpreting the writing on the wall, Daniel 5:29. This is interpreted by the Jews also of the King Messiah; for in an ancient writing (g) of theirs, where having mentioned this passage, it is added, this is the Messiah, that shall ascend and be more precious than all the children of the world, and all the children of the world shall worship and bow before him. Some take "Phaz", the word for fine gold, to be the name of a place from whence it came, and therefore was so called; and that the kingdom of Phez, in Africa, has its name from hence; and Ophir is taken to be Peru in America; though others place it in India; and the Arabic version renders it, "a man shall be more precious than a little stone that is" brought "from India"; and the Septuagint version is, "than a stone in", or "of sapphire".

(g) Zohar in Gen. fol. 71, 1.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

12. man … precious—I will so cut off Babylon's defenders, that a single man shall be as rare and precious as the finest gold.

Isaiah 13:12 Additional Commentaries
Context
A Judgment against Babylon
…11Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. 12I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold And mankind than the gold of Ophir. 13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the LORD of hosts In the day of His burning anger.…
Cross References

lukecash12
September 26th, 2015, 08:48 PM
LUCASCASH-12

Catholics are People who do NOT OBEY JESUS' WORDS.
-------------------------------------------------------------

New International Version
I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir.

King James Bible
I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.

Young's Literal Translation
I make man more rare than fine gold, And a common man than pure gold of Ophir.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

13:6-18 We have here the terrible desolation of Babylon by the Medes and Persians. Those who in the day of their peace were proud, and haughty, and terrible, are quite dispirited when trouble comes. Their faces shall be scorched with the flame. All comfort and hope shall fail. The stars of heaven shall not give their light, the sun shall be darkened. Such expressions are often employed by the prophets, to describe the convulsions of governments. God will visit them for their iniquity, particularly the sin of pride, which brings men low. There shall be a general scene of horror. Those who join themselves to Babylon, must expect to share her plagues, Re 18:4. All that men have, they would give for their lives, but no man's riches shall be the ransom of his life. Pause here and wonder that men should be thus cruel and inhuman, and see how corrupt the nature of man is become. And that little infants thus suffer, which shows that there is an original guilt, by which life is forfeited as soon as it is begun. The day of the Lord will, indeed, be terrible with wrath and fierce anger, far beyond all here stated. Nor will there be any place for the sinner to flee to, or attempt an escape. But few act as though they believed these things.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 12. - I will make a man more precious than fine gold (comp. Isaiah 4:1). Population shall he so diminished that man shall be the most highly esteemed of commodities. The more scanty the supply of a thing, the greater its value. The golden wedge of Ophir; rather, pure gold of Ophir. Ophir is mentioned as a gold-region in 1 Kings 9:28; 1 Kings 10:11; 1 Kings 22:48; 1 Chronicles 29:4; 2 Chronicles 8:18; 2 Chronicles 9:10; Job 22:24; Job 28:16; Psalm 45:9. Its locality is uncertain. Gold of Ophir appears to have been considered especially pure.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

I will make a man more precious than fine gold,.... Which may denote either the scarcity of men in Babylon, through the slaughter made of them; so things that are scarce and rare are said to be precious, 1 Samuel 3:1 or the resolution of the Medes to spare none, though ever so much gold were offered to them, they being not to be bribed therewith, Isaiah 13:17 or that such should be the fear of men, that they would not be prevailed upon to take up arms to defend themselves or their king, whatever quantity of gold, even the best, was proposed unto them, a man was not to be got for money:

even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir; which designs the same thing in different words. The Targum gives another sense of the whole, paraphrasing it thus,

"I will love them that fear me more than gold, of which men glory; and those that keep the law more than the fine gold of Ophir;''

understanding it of the Israelites, that were in Babylon when it was taken, and who were precious and in high esteem with the Medes and Persians, more than gold, and whose lives they spared. Jarchi interprets it particularly of Daniel, and of the honour that was done him by Belshazzar, upon his reading and interpreting the writing on the wall, Daniel 5:29. This is interpreted by the Jews also of the King Messiah; for in an ancient writing (g) of theirs, where having mentioned this passage, it is added, this is the Messiah, that shall ascend and be more precious than all the children of the world, and all the children of the world shall worship and bow before him. Some take "Phaz", the word for fine gold, to be the name of a place from whence it came, and therefore was so called; and that the kingdom of Phez, in Africa, has its name from hence; and Ophir is taken to be Peru in America; though others place it in India; and the Arabic version renders it, "a man shall be more precious than a little stone that is" brought "from India"; and the Septuagint version is, "than a stone in", or "of sapphire".

(g) Zohar in Gen. fol. 71, 1.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

12. man … precious—I will so cut off Babylon's defenders, that a single man shall be as rare and precious as the finest gold.

Isaiah 13:12 Additional Commentaries
Context
A Judgment against Babylon
…11Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. 12I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold And mankind than the gold of Ophir. 13Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the LORD of hosts In the day of His burning anger.…
Cross References

Someone here needs to give C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity a serious read... So long as Catholic preaching continues to contain the Gospel, there will be Catholic Christians. Coming up with repeated references to Babylon is nothing more than an obtuse attempt at making the Roman Catholic Church a figure in eschatology.

It appears eschatology can be twisted to any end. Which is why it behooves us to focus first on doctrines that have to do with soteriology, not eschatology, when determining which groups actually spread the Gospel.

patrick jane
September 26th, 2015, 09:26 PM
It is not the speaker of the Love of God

but the Doer of God's Commandments and Obedience to God the Father.

NOT THE POPE

be a Doer !

OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 10:23 PM
LUKEYCASH-12 said,

Catholic preaching continues to contain the Gospel,

there will be Catholic Christians.
-------------------------------------------------------
hahahaha , very Funny guy.

The Catholic Pope just Prayed to a Woman and

wants the rest of the Catholics to Worship A WOMAN BEFORE GOD THE FATHER.

That is what the Pagan Roman Catholic Cult preaches .

Where is that in the Gospels , buddy ?????????????????????

Cruciform
September 26th, 2015, 10:28 PM
POPE PRAYS TO MARY INSTEAD OF GOD
A straightforwardly false statement. Try again.

lukecash12
September 26th, 2015, 10:48 PM
LUKEYCASH-12 said,

Catholic preaching continues to contain the Gospel,

there will be Catholic Christians.
-------------------------------------------------------
hahahaha , very Funny guy.

The Catholic Pope just Prayed to a Woman and

wants the rest of the Catholics to Worship A WOMAN BEFORE GOD THE FATHER.

That is what the Pagan Roman Catholic Cult preaches .

Where is that in the Gospels , buddy ?????????????????????

You could try reading post #6 again, where I addressed exactly that. Catholics think of Mary as an intermediary who can give their prayers to God. While I wouldn't hesitate to point out the error of that doctrine, with careful theologically disciplined considerations of Christ Himself being the mediator, as erroneous as it may be you will never be able to find this in any papal encyclical or Catholic creed: "Catholics worship a woman before God the Father."

OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 11:01 PM
CRUCIFORM

Today Pope Francis (Petros Romanus) prayed to Mary in front of Millions

of People in the USA. Didn't you watch CNN TV Today. ?????????
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is a prayer from Pope John Paul

To You, O Mary! (written by Pope John-paul Ii
O Mother of men and peoples, you know all their sufferings and their hopes, you feel in a motherly way all the struggles between good and evil, between the light and the darkness which shakes the world. Accept our cry addressed in the Holy Spirit directly to your heart and embrace with the love of the Mother and the Handmaid of the Lord the peoples who await this embrace the most, and likewise the peoples whose consecration you too are particularly awaiting. Take under your motherly protection the whole human family which we can consecrate to you, O mother, with affectionate rapture. May the time of peace and freedom, the time of truth, justice and hope, approach for everyone.

patrick jane
September 26th, 2015, 11:03 PM
I may not be Catholic myself, but I do believe that Catholicism is heavily misunderstood by Evangelicals and Protestants in general. Given that I'd like to present some Catholic concepts to shine light on this dark tunnel:

Any careful understanding of their theological literature will turn up the fact that Catholics do not worship saints, even Mary. Their high regard towards and communication with saints, as they understand it, is an expression of the two different parts of the Church.

These two different parts of the Church are the Church Militant and Church Reformed. We are the Church Militant, fighting the spiritual battle because we now reside in the battlefield itself. The Church Reformed is composed of those who have been glorified and now worship at the Great White Throne, where the Lord is.

Keeping that in mind, the whole concept behind sending prayers to saints is not that the saints themselves are objects of worship. By virtue of being glorified, the end result of God's sanctification, and by virtue of residing next to the Great White Throne itself, Catholic theologians reason that the saints are in a better position to communicate with the Lord Himself.

Prayers sent to saints are ultimately prayers intended for God, the difference being that saints act as intermediaries in the Catholic mind. This is because Catholics have temerity at addressing themselves to the Lord Himself, considering it an improper course because they are not yet glorified.

true and that's the way i looked at it with praying to saints and/or Mary. it can be perceived as idolatry and even misunderstood by catholics themselves -

OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 11:35 PM
Catholics will probably believe

any baloney that their priests put out.

lukecash12
September 27th, 2015, 12:27 AM
Catholics will probably believe

any baloney that their priests put out.

While I sympathize with your concern, because Catholic laypersons are often unaware of the core official doctrines of the RCC... considering the fact that Catholic padres are rigorously taught RCC theology through an educational process more strict than most other denominational associations, I don't doubt it's quite a rarity for one of them to explicitly teach that Mary is an object of worship before God.

In any case, whoever happens to be there at the Great White Throne when the Books are read, I'm sure our eyes will be on the Anointed One.