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Ktoyou
September 26th, 2015, 01:12 PM
Anyone who does not believe in Christ has chosen instead to remain apart from God. Though they may have a religious perspective, in their hearts they are choosing to worship God the way they want to worship Him, instead of the way He commands us to worship Him. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me”. John 14:6

chair
September 26th, 2015, 01:23 PM
Why are you so hung up on us Jews? We don't care at all whether you think we will get to your Christian heaven or not.

ok doser
September 26th, 2015, 01:24 PM
Anyone who does not believe in Christ has chosen instead to remain apart from God. Though they may have a religious perspective, in their hearts they are choosing to worship God the way they want to worship Him, instead of the way He commands us to worship Him. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me”. John 14:6



surprising how many here don't accept that :idunno:



Why are you so hung up on us Jews? We don't care at all whether you think we will get to your Christian heaven or not.

and yet, here you are whining about it

chair
September 26th, 2015, 02:43 PM
and yet, here you are whining about it

Yes. There is something unsettling about people constantly looking at you, in particular, and discussing whether you are damned or not in their view. Why are you so concerned with us? I understand why this was the case when Christianity first started, since it started as Jewish sect. But that was 2,000 years ago. Time to grow up.

And yes, the unpleasant history we have had with Christians contributes to my feeling of unease about this.

meshak
September 26th, 2015, 04:41 PM
Jews Go to Heaven Without Knowing Jesus?

Many Christians believe that.

Bright Raven
September 26th, 2015, 04:51 PM
No anyone who comes to the Father must come through the Son.

steko
September 26th, 2015, 05:02 PM
Many Christians believe that.

This one doesn't.

aikido7
September 26th, 2015, 05:03 PM
Living in a generations-long existence of having their neck under the boot of corrupt rulers and conquerors, the Jews did something practical and pragmatic:

The devised a way to build in moral socialism into the structures of their society--religious and political. And Jesus carried on this epic narrative in his own ministry.

The turning away from

...worshiping the Golden Calf of idolatry,
...extending our moral imagination for the homeless, the immigrant, the orphan and the widow,
...canceling all debts for everyone at a certain time period every generation
...holding back part of the harvest for the poor and the marginalized,
...giving back the land to its original family owners every so often at a definite time.
...Being kind to animals who till the soil and provide clothing and nourishment

In short, establishing the type of world where swords and lances are turned back into pruning hooks.

Their great narrative myth was to leave the bondage of the Pharaoh and strike out to wander the great wilderness. And to eventually arrive in a paradise of morality and liberty and justice for all.

Most of us (as I see it) are leaving the power and principalities of our Pharaohs.
And I see this happening worldwide.

But we are clearly wandering in the wilderness, trying to follow the leaders who have a chance of leading us to that "city on the hill" as Reagan talked about.
A paradise of justice and human rights and a place of no more war.

The Jews knew exactly what they were doing. They were all-too-aware of where they were and where they needed to be.

Their great prophets always warned the people that if they kept on going the way they were going, they were going to wind up where they were headed.

Repent, which meant then and means now "metanoia". Completely change your human orientation to the world and find immortality and peace.

exminister
September 26th, 2015, 05:44 PM
No anyone who comes to the Father must come through the Son.

Acts 10
34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism
35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

Romans 2
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)


Jesus is the only way but some may only find that out in the next life.

Bradley D
September 26th, 2015, 11:07 PM
It is not my place to say who will go to heaven and who will not. That is in God's hand.

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven" (Luke 6:37).


"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21).

heir
September 26th, 2015, 11:11 PM
This one doesn't.

I don't either.

OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 11:12 PM
KTOYOU,

Why are you starting to think like me ?

heir
September 26th, 2015, 11:15 PM
Jews Go to Heaven Without Knowing Jesus?Nope! No one gets there without the righteousness of God upon them (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). The only way to "get it" (as they say) is to trust the Lord believing the why of the cross of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and it will be imputed (Romans 4:24-25 KJV).

Good thread!

OCTOBER23
September 26th, 2015, 11:16 PM
CHAIR said,

There is something unsettling about people constantly looking at you, in particular, and discussing whether you are damned or not in their view. Why are you so concerned with us? I understand why this was the case when Christianity first started, since it started as Jewish sect. But that was 2,000 years ago. Time to grow up.

And yes, the unpleasant history we have had with Christians contributes
to my feeling of unease about this.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE SOME UNRESOLVED PAST PSYCHOLOGICAL

SITUATIONS IN YOUR STATEMENTS.

Also, it was the Ruthless Pagan Catholics who harmed the Jews using the Crusades.

Real Christians are humble and non-violent.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you,

do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which

despitefully use you, and persecute you;

heir
September 26th, 2015, 11:20 PM
Why are you so hung up on us Jews? You're not a Jew (Romans 11:32 KJV). You're just like everyone else!

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

You have no hope outside of the gospel of the grace of God (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)!

RBBI
September 26th, 2015, 11:24 PM
CHAIR said,

There is something unsettling about people constantly looking at you, in particular, and discussing whether you are damned or not in their view. Why are you so concerned with us? I understand why this was the case when Christianity first started, since it started as Jewish sect. But that was 2,000 years ago. Time to grow up.

And yes, the unpleasant history we have had with Christians contributes
to my feeling of unease about this.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE SOME UNRESOLVED PAST PSYCHOLOGICAL SITUATIONS IN YOUR STATEMENTS.

Also, it was the Ruthless Pagan Catholics who harmed the Jews using the Crusades.

Real Christians are humble and non-violent.

And your comment justified it....

Ask Mr. Religion
September 26th, 2015, 11:27 PM
It is not my place to say who will go to heaven and who will not.

It is our place to be explaining how one get's there.

It logically follows that those who do not like the explanation and refuse it have another destination awaiting them.

:AMR:

AMR

RBBI
September 26th, 2015, 11:28 PM
You're not a Jew (Romans 11:32 KJV). You're just like everyone else!

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

You have no hope outside of the gospel of the grace of God (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV)!

Why is it everyone takes that scripture out of context, as if HaShem is "grace-less"? Noah found GRACE in His eyes, for one. Grace is part of His nature, part of the foundation. His grace is His love crying out for His mercy. Peace

chair
September 27th, 2015, 01:07 AM
--------------------------------------
LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE SOME UNRESOLVED PAST PSYCHOLOGICAL

SITUATIONS IN YOUR STATEMENTS.

There are unresolved psychological problems- among many Christians. There are a huge number of threads on this forum about Jews. Why?


Also, it was the Ruthless Pagan Catholics who harmed the Jews using the Crusades.

Real Christians are humble and non-violent.

It was not just the Crusades, and not just the Catholics.

CherubRam
September 27th, 2015, 01:20 AM
Yes. There is something unsettling about people constantly looking at you, in particular, and discussing whether you are damned or not in their view. Why are you so concerned with us? I understand why this was the case when Christianity first started, since it started as Jewish sect. But that was 2,000 years ago. Time to grow up.

And yes, the unpleasant history we have had with Christians contributes to my feeling of unease about this.

It was Jews who killed the first Christians. It was the Pagan Catholics whom killed the Jews. Get your facts straight.

lukecash12
September 27th, 2015, 02:45 AM
It was Jews who killed the first Christians. It was the Pagan Catholics whom killed the Jews. Get your facts straight.

Right, because we can reduce two thousand years of history into two sentences...

Just one counter-example:

The Jews were killed during both great incursions of the Black Death; being blamed in Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Russian Orthodox societies as "well poisoners".

Here are some counter-facts to the premise of the thread:

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses are with the Father right now. After all, in the account of the transfiguration the Lord makes clear that He is the God of the living, hence His title as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob necessitates the conclusion of their living.

Everyone who participated in writing the OT, be they prophet, ardent historian (possibly in the case of books like Kings 1 & 2), or patriarch, did so through the express involvement of the Holy Spirit. Paul confirms that the OT is spirit breathed, quoting oftentimes from the Septuagint, and elsewhere of course establishes that his own letters are for doctrinal instruction of the Church as a whole; ergo, they also came from the Spirit.

My understanding of this is that Jews before the atonement could still benefit from the atonement. How? While they couldn't know Christ the way that we do, there are abundant prophecies in the OT all the way back to when the Lord said that His seed would bruise Satan under His heel. In the Akkedah (Binding of Isaac), Jews could see that it is truly God Himself who provides the offering. The person of Jesus/Yeshua is later laid out more descriptively in texts like Isaiah.

Clearly, the group that Paul described in Romans as the True Israel, was looking forward to Jesus Christ.

Totton Linnet
September 27th, 2015, 04:12 AM
The Jews [ethnic Israel] are not promised heaven....they are promised [by eternal covenant] the land...earth.

Totton Linnet
September 27th, 2015, 04:14 AM
The Jews are the root, the church is the shoot.

The shoot is supported by the root, not vice versa

Bradley D
September 27th, 2015, 11:02 PM
It is our place to be explaining how one get's there.

It logically follows that those who do not like the explanation and refuse it have another destination awaiting them.

:AMR:

AMR

I believe in having God's charity (I Cor. 13:4-8a) for all. I believe in praying for those who do reject the word. Living the word and caring for all souls seems more towards God's Will for me. Perhaps whose who reject today may accept tomorrow. If I show love instead of condemnation I believe that will attract more to the faith.
Hate the sin, but love the sinner.

Ask Mr. Religion
September 27th, 2015, 11:50 PM
Hate the sin, but love the sinner.
This view ignores the state of the lost, who can only sin more or sin less and has open the doors to all manner of syncretism within the church militant.

As far as 'hatred of sins' is concerned, sins do not exist apart from the sinner. God does hate sinning, killing, stealing, lying, lusting, etc., but this alludes to the perpetrator of these crimes.

Misconceptions about what it means to "love our enemies" have resulted in a loss of holy indignation and bold opposition against those who hate God. Christ's command tells us only to do good to those who hate us. It is akin to the the natural benevolence that God shows toward all men (Matthew 5:43-45). But Scripture never teaches us to think of the non-believer as something that they are not; rather, Scripture's position is that all non-Christians are

- deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- lovers of darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- unrighteous, do not understand, do not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- not able to understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- slaves of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

For a person to think of sinner as something better amounts to a rejection of divine revelation.

Accordingly, although we are to exhibit a natural benevolence toward non-believers, we must also be jealous for God's honor and imitate His holy hatred toward them. Unfortunately, not a few Christians "love" their enemies in a way that amounts to rebellion against God. In fact, in a properly functioning church these "loving" folk would be admonished and be subject to discipline.

We "love" non-believers in the way commanded by Christ when we offer to do them good and refuse to do them harm (Romans 12:20-21, 13:10). But we should have "nothing but hatred" (Psalm 139:22) toward non-believers in the sense that we oppose all of who they are, what they believe, and what they do, for even the civil "good" they do are for the wrong motives, denying the glory of God.

The plain fact is that our non-believing neighbors regard the Christian faith as false. Such a view is to hate us at the deepest level possible, since the content of the Christian faith permeates all of our thinking and behavior. If there is any aspect of our lives that is not yet controlled by Scriptural precepts, it is only because we are still imperfect in our sanctification, and not that we oppose Scripture on the matter. Therefore, for a person who regards Christianity as false, there is nothing in us for him to love. He cannot love us and hate our beliefs-–We are our beliefs; We are Christians.

The "love" that God and Christians show toward non-believers is to be limited to natural and temporal kindness, but on the spiritual and ideological level, God and Christians are completely opposed to the non-believer.

AMR

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 02:35 AM
I believe in having God's charity (I Cor. 13:4-8a) for all. I believe in praying for those who do reject the word. Living the word and caring for all souls seems more towards God's Will for me. Perhaps whose who reject today may accept tomorrow. If I show love instead of condemnation I believe that will attract more to the faith.
Hate the sin, but love the sinner.

Well said, brother.

Jesus' message of love your enemy is self explanatory.

Too many Christians make it complicated because of their elitism. All man-made doctrines stem from elitism.

Most churches make Jesus as militant Savior.

Jesus does not approve of His followers to be elitists or militant.

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 02:39 AM
Here is what Jesus says about loving your enemy:

Luke 6:27-36 King James Version)

27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Fatheralso is merciful.

and some more:

Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 02:43 AM
Jesus is meek or humble Savior, not militant savior.

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 03:18 AM
Well said, brother.

Jesus' message of love your enemy is self explanatory.

Too many Christians make it complicated because of their elitism. All man-made doctrines stem from elitism.

Most churches make Jesus as militant Savior.

Jesus does not approve of His followers to be elitists or militant.

You don't love anyone, your husband was the first victim of your religion.

You believe God has militarised Islam to punish the trins

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 03:26 AM
You don't love anyone, your husband was the first victim of your religion.

You believe God has militarised Islam to punish the trins

You are still obsessed about me, I see.

You poor thing.

BTW, what I quoted is what Jesus says. It is not about me, sweetie.

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 03:28 AM
Your hypocrisy is an amazement to me.

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 03:29 AM
Who do you love?

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 03:34 AM
Hey sweetie,

You need to concentrate on what Jesus says.

Obsessed to hate or holding grudge is not what Jesus wants from His followers.

Aren't you claiming to be true and saved Christian?

then you should try to be godly instead of obsessing about your enemy.

Obsession is not godly thing, sweetie.

peace

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 04:07 AM
Who do you love meshak?

I know you had that imaginary rabbit friend you sent an e mail in a post to...telling her of your labours for the Lord, sat on your hole all day pouring out vitriol on His church. But she wasn't real person

Then there's jerzy, LA and Let'sargue who all believe God is going to kill the Christians...but you fall out with them on other things don't you.

There MUST be someone you love.....

You are always saying Jesus commanded us to love....but you don't love anyone.

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 04:09 AM
Who do you love meshak?

why are you so obsessed about me, sweetie?

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 04:10 AM
Perhaps you think you must be lonely to be holy, but Jesus was always surrounded by disciples who loved Him

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 04:12 AM
Perhaps you think you must be lonely to be holy, but Jesus was always surrounded by disciples who loved Him

I understand your obsession but this thread is not about me, sweetie.

You need to get over your grudge and obsession.

Pray and ask God to get rid of your obsession.

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 04:17 AM
Just tell me a name of someone you love, make one up if you must

You just lectured us that we must love our enemies...but you don't love anyone, that is why I chase you.

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 04:19 AM
Just tell me a name of someone you love, make one up if you must

why are you so bitter?

Do you know that Jesus says to love your enemy?

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 04:22 AM
Do you love Jesus?

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 04:22 AM
How about those Christians who tried to be so kind to you...you claim you served them faithfully. But now you say they are disgusting.

The JWs booted you out....

There MUST be someone who you truly love.

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 04:24 AM
Do you love Jesus?

He dwells in me, how could I not?

I am sure He dwells in those first Christians you "served faithfully" but now you say they are disgusting.

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 04:25 AM
why are you so bitter?

Do you know that Jesus says to love your enemy?

So...who do you love meshak? that's why I asked you

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 04:29 AM
He dwells in me, how could I not?

Your obsession is not trait of HS dwelling in you, sweetie.

You need to know Jesus and accept His as your Lord and Savior.

Your hatred and bitter conduct is not of God.

I have to go now.

I hope you think about what it takes to claim Jesus' name for your own sake.

Totton Linnet
September 28th, 2015, 04:34 AM
Let me ask it differently...why do you not love anybody?

Why don't you love people just because they are people? I think people are wonderful, even if they are not saved.

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 06:39 AM
Let me ask it differently...why do you not love anybody?

Your obsession to hate me is not from the Holy Spirit, it is from demon.

You seem to be demon possessed.

Jesus says to love one another, obsessing to hate is not Christian thing to do.

Seek peace of God, friend.

Ktoyou
September 28th, 2015, 03:43 PM
KTOYOU,

Why are you starting to think like me ?

Huh?

Ktoyou
September 28th, 2015, 03:47 PM
Hey sweetie,



Obsession is not godly thing, sweetie.






why are you so obsessed about me, sweetie?


I understand your obsession but this thread is not about me, sweetie.


Condescending! mocking, mocking..........
:chuckle:

Ktoyou
September 28th, 2015, 03:51 PM
There are unresolved psychological problems- among many Christians.

Oh no, not :kookoo: Christians

Ktoyou
September 28th, 2015, 03:56 PM
I believe in having God's charity (I Cor. 13:4-8a) for all. I believe in praying for those who do reject the word. Living the word and caring for all souls seems more towards God's Will for me. Perhaps whose who reject today may accept tomorrow. If I show love instead of condemnation I believe that will attract more to the faith.
Hate the sin, but love the sinner.

To be in the Body of Christ one must accept Him as our savior. WE are saved by the blood of Christ, and by faith alone, receive the Holy Spirit.

This does not necessarily mean all Jews are condemned. It opens to a discussion as to how God's plan includes the Jews. Funny, no one has mentioned this yet?

Grosnick Marowbe
September 28th, 2015, 04:05 PM
Do you love Jesus?

You already stated that Tott is demon possessed. why would someone
in such a state love anyone? Your ignorance is quite interesting. At the
same time, somewhat annoying.

Grosnick Marowbe
September 28th, 2015, 04:09 PM
How about those Christians who tried to be so kind to you...you claim you served them faithfully. But now you say they are disgusting.

The JWs booted you out....

There MUST be someone who you truly love.

Meshak said that the "Jehovah Witnesses" are godly people. Yet,
they booted her out? That's interesting.

lukecash12
September 28th, 2015, 05:59 PM
How do we end up going from discussing OT saints and Jews today, to discussion about JWs?

OCTOBER23
September 28th, 2015, 06:03 PM
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward,

and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Ecclesiastes 6:12 For who knoweth what is good for man in this life,

all the days of his vain life which he spendeth as a shadow?

for who can tell a man what shall be after him under the sun?

OCTOBER23
September 28th, 2015, 06:14 PM
KTOYOU, This is the Kind of Topic that I would post.
--------------------------------------------------------

Anyone who does not believe in Christ has chosen instead to remain apart from God. Though they may have a religious perspective, in their hearts they are choosing to worship God the way they want to worship Him, instead of the way He commands us to worship Him. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me

OCTOBER23
September 28th, 2015, 06:22 PM
MR. RELIGION,

SIN DOES EXIST EXTANT FROM THE SINNER

SIN IS A NEGATIVE POTENTIAL

SATAN DEVELOPED IT TO ITS UTMOST DEGREE

AND THAT IS WHY GOD WANTS IT OVERCOME.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
syncretism : Religious syncretism exhibits blending of two or more religious belief systems into a new system, or the incorporation into a religious tradition of beliefs from unrelated traditions. eg..Mahomedan and Catholic =Islam.

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 08:03 PM
Condescending! mocking, mocking..........
:chuckle:

that's what many main posters of this site do. I just reflected it.

meshak
September 28th, 2015, 08:05 PM
How do we end up going from discussing OT saints and Jews today, to discussion about JWs?

don't forget I became topic too.

lifeisgood
September 28th, 2015, 09:09 PM
There are unresolved psychological problems- among many Christians. There are a huge number of threads on this forum about Jews. Why?

It was not just the Crusades, and not just the Catholics.

Muslims, e.g.

glorydaz
September 28th, 2015, 09:46 PM
don't forget I became topic too.

I'm sure no one will forget that, Meshak. If they do you will always be there to remind them. :chuckle:

heir
September 28th, 2015, 09:57 PM
Why is it everyone takes that scripture out of context, as if HaShem is "grace-less"? Noah found GRACE in His eyes, for one. Grace is part of His nature, part of the foundation. His grace is His love crying out for His mercy. PeaceFirst of all, I'm not sure what scripture you are referring to when you say everyone takes "it" out of context. Secondly, No one here has even suggested what you have about "Ha Shem" being "grace-less". Do try and make a point that is relevant to the discussion.

RBBI
September 28th, 2015, 10:06 PM
It was relevant at the time or I wouldn't have posted it. Now it is buried under "snipe shooting".

Bradley D
September 29th, 2015, 02:28 AM
This view ignores the state of the lost, who can only sin more or sin less and has open the doors to all manner of syncretism within the church militant.

As far as 'hatred of sins' is concerned, sins do not exist apart from the sinner. God does hate sinning, killing, stealing, lying, lusting, etc., but this alludes to the perpetrator of these crimes.

Misconceptions about what it means to "love our enemies" have resulted in a loss of holy indignation and bold opposition against those who hate God. Christ's command tells us only to do good to those who hate us. It is akin to the the natural benevolence that God shows toward all men (Matthew 5:43-45). But Scripture never teaches us to think of the non-believer as something that they are not; rather, Scripture's position is that all non-Christians are

- deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9);
- full of evil (Mark 7:21-23);
- lovers of darkness rather than light (John 3:19);
- unrighteous, do not understand, do not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12);
- helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6);
- dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1);
- by nature children of wrath (Eph. 2:3);
- not able to understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14); and
- slaves of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).

For a person to think of sinner as something better amounts to a rejection of divine revelation.

Accordingly, although we are to exhibit a natural benevolence toward non-believers, we must also be jealous for God's honor and imitate His holy hatred toward them. Unfortunately, not a few Christians "love" their enemies in a way that amounts to rebellion against God. In fact, in a properly functioning church these "loving" folk would be admonished and be subject to discipline.

We "love" non-believers in the way commanded by Christ when we offer to do them good and refuse to do them harm (Romans 12:20-21, 13:10). But we should have "nothing but hatred" (Psalm 139:22) toward non-believers in the sense that we oppose all of who they are, what they believe, and what they do, for even the civil "good" they do are for the wrong motives, denying the glory of God.

The plain fact is that our non-believing neighbors regard the Christian faith as false. Such a view is to hate us at the deepest level possible, since the content of the Christian faith permeates all of our thinking and behavior. If there is any aspect of our lives that is not yet controlled by Scriptural precepts, it is only because we are still imperfect in our sanctification, and not that we oppose Scripture on the matter. Therefore, for a person who regards Christianity as false, there is nothing in us for him to love. He cannot love us and hate our beliefs-–We are our beliefs; We are Christians.

The "love" that God and Christians show toward non-believers is to be limited to natural and temporal kindness, but on the spiritual and ideological level, God and Christians are completely opposed to the non-believer.

AMR

I do not know who the eternally lost are. The worst sinner can repent and believe. Therefore, I am to treat all as potential believers. I am not to associate with sinners, but to greet all that I pass by.

"For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:46-48).

Hate is a heavy burden. Once again I believe in hating the sin, but pray for the sinner.

"Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you..." (Matthew 5:42-44).

intojoy
September 29th, 2015, 05:04 AM
Heaven is a temporal abode. You should ask your question differently.


Do Jews find redemption apart from the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of the Jewish Messiah?

chair
September 29th, 2015, 06:25 AM
Heaven is a temporal abode. You should ask your question differently.


Do Jews find redemption apart from the sacrificial death, burial and resurrection of the Jewish Messiah?

Do Christians find entertainment in anything besides what happens to the Jews in the afterlife?

Go watch a ball game. Or better yet- volunteer in a soup kitchen.

RBBI
September 29th, 2015, 02:53 PM
To be fair, not all of it is mean-spirited. Some are genuinely concerned about the Jewish people's spiritual well-being, based on what they believe about the afterlife.....Just sayin.....

Ask Mr. Religion
September 29th, 2015, 02:59 PM
Once again I believe in hating the sin, but pray for the sinner.

And again you seem to think sin exists as some substance "out there" or whatever as opposed to it being the consequence of evil in the heart of the one so sinning. Those that sin are doing so with a clear will to do so. They get no pass for their willful actions as if they can excuse their behavior with a casual "the devil made me do it" wave off.

Pray for the sinner and hate them with a holy hatred for He whom they are sinning against.

AMR

glorydaz
September 29th, 2015, 03:32 PM
And again you seem to think sin exists as some substance "out there" or whatever as opposed to it being the consequence of evil in the heart of the one so sinning. Those that sin are doing so with a clear will to do so. They get no pass for their willful actions as if they can excuse their behavior with a casual "the devil made me do it" wave off.

Pray for the sinner and hate them with a holy hatred for He whom they are sinning against.

AMR

:thumb:

OCTOBER23
September 29th, 2015, 03:35 PM
LADIES,

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS.

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves:

for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

meshak
September 29th, 2015, 04:13 PM
LADIES,

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS.

1 Peter 4:8 And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves:

for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
Why are you addressing this to ladies? Why not gents too?

aikido7
September 29th, 2015, 07:47 PM
Everyone goes to the same place. It will either be the most amazing journey we will ever take or it will be absolutely nothing.

Ktoyou
September 29th, 2015, 09:12 PM
Heaven is a temporal abode. ...

..........


Where did you get this idea, from a fortune cookie?

Ktoyou
September 29th, 2015, 09:14 PM
Everyone goes to the same place. It will either be the most amazing journey we will ever take or it will be absolutely nothing.

Another brilliant response....:sigh:

Bradley D
September 30th, 2015, 12:00 AM
And again you seem to think sin exists as some substance "out there" or whatever as opposed to it being the consequence of evil in the heart of the one so sinning. Those that sin are doing so with a clear will to do so. They get no pass for their willful actions as if they can excuse their behavior with a casual "the devil made me do it" wave off.

Pray for the sinner and hate them with a holy hatred for He whom they are sinning against.

AMR

As God told Noah everyone has evil inclinations of the heart (Gen. 8:21). To follow those inclinations is sin. Unrepentant sinners do not get forgiven for their sins. I not agree with everyone that sins does so with a "clear will" to do so. Even in the OT they had sacrifices for those who did not know they had sinned. But once found out they repented.

I will not hate the sinner. If Jesus can forgive those who put Him on the cross from the cross. Who am I not to always forgive.

"Jesus said, 'Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing" (Luke 23:34).

intojoy
September 30th, 2015, 12:13 AM
Do Christians find entertainment in anything besides what happens to the Jews in the afterlife?

Go watch a ball game. Or better yet- volunteer in a soup kitchen.

Son, Yeshua will not return until the Jews ask Him to. If that is sound nt doctrine then Israel is the center of the Christian's theology! Son!

intojoy
September 30th, 2015, 12:16 AM
Where did you get this idea, from a fortune cookie?

bc where did the saved go?

Sheol

Now where do the saved go?

Heaven

During the Messianic Kingdom where are the saved?

Here on earth

In the Eternal Order where are the saved?

Here on earth

aikido7
September 30th, 2015, 01:33 AM
Another brilliant response....:sigh:It's either one or the other. There's no third way.

beloved57
September 30th, 2015, 01:56 AM
Nope! No one gets there without the righteousness of God upon them (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). The only way to "get it" (as they say) is to trust the Lord believing the why of the cross of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and it will be imputed (Romans 4:24-25 KJV).

Good thread!

Thats salvation by works, by what a person does, those Christ Lived and died for, by His sole act of obedience apart from any of theirs, were made Righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Thats because the only requirement for righteousness to be imputed to them was Christ's Obedience !

You teach a false way of salvation !

heir
September 30th, 2015, 09:58 AM
LADIES,

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mark 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

We're already forgiven (Ephesians 4:32 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV).

heir
September 30th, 2015, 09:59 AM
Thats salvation by works, by what a person does, those Christ Lived and died for, by His sole act of obedience apart from any of theirs, were made Righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Thats because the only requirement for righteousness to be imputed to them was Christ's Obedience !

You teach a false way of salvation !The righteousness of God is unto all, but only UPON all them that believe (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). When was there ever a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV)?

heir
September 30th, 2015, 10:00 AM
Heaven is a temporal abode. You should ask your question differently.2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

beloved57
September 30th, 2015, 10:03 AM
The righteousness of God is unto all, but only UPON all them that believe (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). When was there ever a moment in your life when you trusted the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV)?
It was imputed to them before they believe, It was imputed to them by the obedience of one Rom 5:19,their believing comes later ! You don't believe the Gospel Truth!

heir
September 30th, 2015, 10:10 AM
It was imputed to them before they believe, It was imputed to them by the obedience of one Rom 5:19,their believing comes later !Nope!

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

...


Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



You don't believe the Gospel Truth!Sadly, it's you who don't. You don't believe the gospel is the means by which we are saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and made partakers of Christ (Ephesians 3:6 KJV). You reject that IT (the gospel of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16-17 KJV). I do wish you would examine yourself (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV) and get saved.

beloved57
September 30th, 2015, 10:14 AM
Nope!

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.


Sadly, it's you who don't. You don't believe the gospel is the means by which we are saved (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and made partakers of Christ (Ephesians 3:6 KJV). You reject that IT (the gospel of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16-17 KJV). I do wish you would examine yourself (2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV) and get saved.
Believing comes after the obedience of Christ, it was the obedience of Christ that Made the many righteous Rom 5:19 and you deny that! That's unbelief!

OCTOBER23
September 30th, 2015, 05:22 PM
HEIR quoted Ephesians 4:32 (KJV 1900)

32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another,

even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Excellent quote and here is mine.....

Mark 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly,

he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

========================================

Ktoyou
September 30th, 2015, 05:26 PM
bc where did the saved go?

Sheol

Now where do the saved go?

Heaven

During the Messianic Kingdom where are the saved?

Here on earth

In the Eternal Order where are the saved?

Here on earth

Are you trying to be a clone of Chrys
or just a clown?

intojoy
October 1st, 2015, 04:01 AM
Are you trying to be a clone of Chrys
or just a clown?

Can't deny the answers?
Nice

heir
October 1st, 2015, 04:26 AM
Believing comes after the obedience of Christ, it was the obedience of Christ that Made the many righteous Rom 5:19 and you deny that! That's unbelief!

You said the righteousness is imputed before belief and I showed you are wrong. Instead of aligning what you preach to agree with the word of God, you continue in ignorance.

beloved57
October 1st, 2015, 06:07 AM
You said the righteousness is imputed before belief and I showed you are wrong. Instead of aligning what you preach to agree with the word of God, you continue in ignorance.

Yes, those Christ lived and died for are made Righteous by it, His One obedience Rom 5:19


19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

They were made righteous by His obedience before they had a being and did anything, just as they were made sinners by Adams disobedience before they had a being and did anything !

Now you deny this fundamental Gospel Truth !

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 11:13 AM
Why are you so hung up on us Jews? We don't care at all whether you think we will get to your Christian heaven or not.

Jesus said: Before Abraham was, I am (not I am he). Jn 8:58 Of course Jews can go to heaven (Jn 14:21).

:olinger: The pope said: "We are Abraham's descendants..." Notice he left out Isaac and Jacob? :Shimei: They created :CRASH: Islam to murder you http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a48/EstyUphir/smiles/sm212.gif and me. :straight:

As a reminder, don't let http://vananne.com/serpentdove/lips.gif pagan hoes http://rationalia.com/z/Ratz%20Smilies%20Mk%203/index5_files/mousy.gifinto the holy land. Re 11

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 11:23 AM
You're not a Jew (Romans 11:32 KJV)...

Does she make you jealous? http://vananne.com/serpentdove/crazy.gif Ro 11:11

"Hark! Fair Juliet speaks." :rolleyes: ~ Paul Maclean, A River Runs Through It

chrysostom
February 17th, 2016, 11:29 AM
Anyone who does not believe in Christ has chosen instead to remain apart from God. Though they may have a religious perspective, in their hearts they are choosing to worship God the way they want to worship Him, instead of the way He commands us to worship Him. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me”. John 14:6

worrying about how others get to heaven
is
not going to get you to heaven
so
how are you going to do it?

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 11:31 AM
Why is it everyone takes that scripture out of context, as if HaShem is "grace-less"? Noah found GRACE in His eyes, for one. Grace is part of His nature, part of the foundation...

For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you either. Therefore, consider God’s kindness and severity: severity toward those who have fallen but God’s kindness toward you—if you remain in His kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off (Ro 11:21–22).

HSVltEYE6V4

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 11:34 AM
Do try and make a point that is relevant to the discussion.

This is why we need the rapture (2 Ki 2:23, HCSB). :rapture:

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 11:42 AM
Yes. There is something unsettling about people constantly looking at you, in particular, and discussing whether you are damned or not in their view....And yes, the unpleasant history we have had with Christians contributes to my feeling of unease about this.

Believe the orthodox Jews (Gen. 36:9). http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2010/45/1289663279-juif.gif They know who not to trust (Ob 11). :olinger:

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 12:00 PM
...Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses are with the Father right now.

They brought the sacrifice (Ge 37:31, Mt 27:25, Rom. 11:25, Lk 23:34).

JosephR
February 17th, 2016, 12:50 PM
so a thread about "JEWS" asking if they go to Heaven,most Christians say they will not....lol

Then when a Jew reply's He is answered with scripture He does not accept...

Will a Jew go to Heaven...lol...will a Christian get to Nirvana or Valhalla?
Will a Buddhist go to Kolob with the Mormons??

sometimes u just gota laugh...

JosephR
February 17th, 2016, 12:53 PM
Jews dont want to go to your Heaven,,stop trying to make them or damning them from it,,and stop hijacking their religion....

They look at you ,like you do the Mormons.... with pity and disgust.. in a loving way :)

chrysostom
February 17th, 2016, 12:53 PM
so a thread about "JEWS" asking if they go to Heaven,most Christians say they will not.

what about you?

JosephR
February 17th, 2016, 12:54 PM
what about you?

me? I dont have any concern with where a Jew goes,,,its none of my business..

meshak
February 17th, 2016, 12:56 PM
me? I dont have any concern with where a Jew goes,,,its none of my business..

good for you.

heir
February 17th, 2016, 01:02 PM
Does she make you jealous? http://vananne.com/serpentdove/crazy.gif Ro 11:11

"Hark! Fair Juliet speaks." :rolleyes: ~ Paul Maclean, A River Runs Through It2 Corinthians 5:16-17 KJV

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 01:24 PM
2 Corinthians 5:16-17 KJV

"2 Co 5:16-17 new creation. This describes something that is created at a qualitatively new level of excellence. It refers to regeneration or the new birth (cf. John 3:3; Eph. 2:1–3; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 1:23; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 5:4). This expression encompasses the Christian’s forgiveness of sins paid for in Christ’s substitutionary death (cf. Gal. 6:15; Eph. 4:24). old things have passed away. After a person is regenerate, old value systems, priorities, beliefs, loves, and plans are gone. Evil and sin are still present, but the believer sees them in a new perspective (see note on v. 16), and they no longer control him. all things … new. The Gr. grammar indicates that this newness is a continuing condition of fact. The believer’s new spiritual perception of everything is a constant reality for him, and he now lives for eternity, not temporal things. James identifies this transformation as the faith that produces works (see notes on Eph. 2:10; James 2:14–26)." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1771). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

1 Co 3:17

heir
February 17th, 2016, 01:27 PM
1 Co 3:17

Galatians 3:28 KJV

RBBI
February 17th, 2016, 01:39 PM
This is why we need the rapture (2 Ki 2:23, HCSB). :rapture:

Pity there isn't one, except according to carnally minded interpretations of spiritual principles. Peace

heir
February 17th, 2016, 01:42 PM
Pity there isn't one, except according to carnally minded interpretations of spiritual principles. PeacePity you don't believe it.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

RBBI
February 17th, 2016, 01:44 PM
If you dug deeper and studied the original languages and Hebrew idioms, FOR YOURSELF, you wouldn't either. Read Matt. 13 parable of the wheat and the tares until it sinks in. Peace

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 01:49 PM
Galatians 3:28 KJV

"Ga 3:28. There is in this sonship by faith in Christ, no class privileged above another, as the Jews under the law had been above the Gentiles (Ro 10:12; 1 Co 12:13; Col 3:11)." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 332). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Jn 4:23

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 01:54 PM
[Rapture, cause Jews to become jealous] Pity there isn't one..."

"Not all will sleep (1 Cor. 15:51; 1 Thess. 4:15, 17), dead in Christ will rise (1 Cor. 15:52; 1 Thess. 4:13, 14, 16), living to be transformed (1 Cor. 15:51–53), saints caught up (1 Thess. 4:16, 17). Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 519). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

Letsargue
February 17th, 2016, 01:56 PM
Many Christians believe that.


RIGHT!!!! - They Call Themselves "Christians", Christ don't!!

Most of them don't have the Slightest idea what it's ALL About. They Just Guess!!!

(( Watch Your News ))!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 021716

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 02:01 PM
Devout Jews live as best they can (1 Co 3:17). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Smiley_blind.gif They also look for the truth (Jn 4:23). Moses and Elijah will clarify all soon (Mt 24:14). :bowser: :bowser:

chair
February 17th, 2016, 02:13 PM
so a thread about "JEWS" asking if they go to Heaven,most Christians say they will not....lol

Then when a Jew reply's He is answered with scripture He does not accept...

Will a Jew go to Heaven...lol...will a Christian get to Nirvana or Valhalla?
Will a Buddhist go to Kolob with the Mormons??

sometimes u just gota laugh...

Thanks.

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 02:59 PM
I think your forgetting the fact that no one comes to Christ...even if he wants to... Unless God the Father CALLS him. John 6:44

That's right. Men are not judged for what they don't know. They are judged for what they know (Jn 9:39–41). Your ancestry does not get you into heaven (Matt. 3:9, 10). Men have always been saved the same way--by grace through faith (Eph 2:8). Love God perfectly and you'll be good to go (Mt 22:37).

Letsargue
February 17th, 2016, 03:01 PM
I think your forgetting the fact that no one comes to Christ...even if he wants to... Unless God the Father CALLS him. John 6:44


None of the LOST Fools Can go by Anything GOD "DOES" Say!!!!!!!
What God "Doesn't" Say is Nothing but a LIE!!

(( Watch Your N-E-W-S ))!!!!

PAUL, DAVID -- 021716

heir
February 17th, 2016, 03:12 PM
I think your forgetting the fact that no one comes to Christ...even if he wants to... Unless God the Father CALLS him. John 6:44
God is calling all men to be saved today (1 Timothy 2:4-6 KJV) by the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV). Are you saved?

heir
February 17th, 2016, 03:15 PM
If you dug deeper and studied the original languages and Hebrew idioms, FOR YOURSELF, you wouldn't either. Read Matt. 13 parable of the wheat and the tares until it sinks in. PeaceWe are called to study the approved unto God way which is rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV). I study the authentic all scripture now and it throughly furnishes me (2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV). The catching up is not found in Matthew 13, but Paul's epistles of Romans through Philemon. You are not on the right page.

serpentdove
February 17th, 2016, 05:44 PM
Jews dont want to go to your Heaven...
Separate heavens? :rolleyes: His blood covers us--Jew and gentile alike (Lev. 17:10–14). What the Jews said disparagingly, he applied to them (Ge 37:33, Mt 27:25). :listen: Otherwise they would not exist (Mic. 7:18, Is. 37:31–33). God has always had a remnant (Jer. 23:3–8; Rom. 9:27). Your welcome (Ge 12:3, Mic. 5:7, 8).

KingdomRose
February 17th, 2016, 07:13 PM
Anyone who does not believe in Christ has chosen instead to remain apart from God. Though they may have a religious perspective, in their hearts they are choosing to worship God the way they want to worship Him, instead of the way He commands us to worship Him. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me”. John 14:6

No one goes to heaven that does not have a good relationship with God and with Christ. After all, the ones going to heaven are CO-RULERS with Christ for a thousand years.

But that doesn't mean that some (actually many) people here on Earth will not have accepted Jesus in this world/age. Many will not have had the chance to really get to know him and his Father (John 17:3). Everyone who goes through the Great Tribulation and enters Paradise-in-the-making will be given ample opportunity to LEARN. Then the ones who accept Christ will be able to live on Earth forever, in paradise conditions.

KingdomRose
February 17th, 2016, 07:30 PM
Living in a generations-long existence of having their neck under the boot of corrupt rulers and conquerors, the Jews did something practical and pragmatic:

The devised a way to build in moral socialism into the structures of their society--religious and political. And Jesus carried on this epic narrative in his own ministry.

The turning away from

...worshiping the Golden Calf of idolatry,
...extending our moral imagination for the homeless, the immigrant, the orphan and the widow,
...canceling all debts for everyone at a certain time period every generation
...holding back part of the harvest for the poor and the marginalized,
...giving back the land to its original family owners every so often at a definite time.
...Being kind to animals who till the soil and provide clothing and nourishment

In short, establishing the type of world where swords and lances are turned back into pruning hooks.

Their great narrative myth was to leave the bondage of the Pharaoh and strike out to wander the great wilderness. And to eventually arrive in a paradise of morality and liberty and justice for all.

Most of us (as I see it) are leaving the power and principalities of our Pharaohs.
And I see this happening worldwide.

But we are clearly wandering in the wilderness, trying to follow the leaders who have a chance of leading us to that "city on the hill" as Reagan talked about.
A paradise of justice and human rights and a place of no more war.

The Jews knew exactly what they were doing. They were all-too-aware of where they were and where they needed to be.

Their great prophets always warned the people that if they kept on going the way they were going, they were going to wind up where they were headed.

Repent, which meant then and means now "metanoia". Completely change your human orientation to the world and find immortality and peace.

Yes, this planet will someday be the Paradise that Jehovah intended it always to be. His plans will come to fruition. Earth will be a glorious place of beauty everywhere, no hatred or suffering or sickness or tears of sadness, peace with the animals and every creation. The Bible promises this. Jesus and his co-rulers will reign from heaven, guiding all mankind to re-invigorate this planet and make a wonderful home for everyone.

Isaiah 11:6-9; 35:5,6; 65:21-25

John 5:28

Psalm 37:9-11, 29

Psalm 72:16; 67:6

Isaiah 9:6,7

Psalm 46:8,9

:surf::car::zoomin::cheers::cow::TomO::tunes::upri ght::hetro::Christine

meshak
February 17th, 2016, 07:34 PM
No one goes to heaven that does not have a good relationship with God and with Christ. After all, the ones going to heaven are CO-RULERS with Christ for a thousand years.

But that doesn't mean that some (actually many) people here on Earth will not have accepted Jesus in this world/age. Many will not have had the chance to really get to know him and his Father (John 17:3). Everyone who goes through the Great Tribulation and enters Paradise-in-the-making will be given ample opportunity to LEARN. Then the ones who accept Christ will be able to live on Earth forever, in paradise conditions.

You are talking about 1000 years, right?

it seems just another assumption.

KingdomRose
February 17th, 2016, 08:05 PM
You are talking about 1000 years, right?

it seems just another assumption.

Jesus will reign for a thousand years. I Corinthians says: "Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has abolished all [human] rule and all authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For he has put all things in subjection under his feet.

"But when he says, 'All things are put in subjection,' it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all in all." (I Corinth. 15: 24-28, NASB)

After the Devil is let loose again after the thousand years, those that stand up to him and remain on the side of Jehovah & Jesus will be able to live forever on Earth in paradise conditions. (Revelation 20:4-8)


:D

meshak
February 17th, 2016, 08:10 PM
Jesus will reign for a thousand years. I Corinthians says: "Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has abolished all [human] rule and all authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For he has put all things in subjection under his feet.

"But when he says, 'All things are put in subjection,' it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God may be all in all." (I Corinth. 15: 24-28, NASB)

After the Devil is let loose again after the thousand years, those that stand up to him and remain on the side of Jehovah & Jesus will be able to live forever on Earth in paradise conditions. (Revelation 20:4-8)


:D

It does not say all people will have chance to know the truth in 1000 years.

You guys just added your own assumption.

And JWs are the ones who are teaching the truth, according to your organization. Arn't you saying we are in the 1000 year reign now?

RBBI
February 17th, 2016, 08:41 PM
We are called to study the approved unto God way which is rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15 KJV). I study the authentic all scripture now and it throughly furnishes me (2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV). The catching up is not found in Matthew 13, but Paul's epistles of Romans through Philemon. You are not on the right page.

Well since you study all scripture now, tell me what does it say....it will be like it was in Noah's day. In Noah's day ONLY THE WICKED LEFT THE EARTH. :rapture:

Luke 17:26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man.

The REAL catching up IS found in Matt. 13. Do a study on clouds, also. Peace

KingdomRose
February 19th, 2016, 01:29 AM
It does not say all people will have chance to know the truth in 1000 years.

You guys just added your own assumption.

And JWs are the ones who are teaching the truth, according to your organization. Arn't you saying we are in the 1000 year reign now?

Well, the resurrection will surely take place during Christ's Millennial Reign. I don't think he'll do it in this system of things. Why would he raise people from the dead just to have them have to go through Armageddon? (John 5:28)

What is your take on Revelation 20:11-13? I get the distinct impression that the dead are raised somehow in conjunction with the great white throne judgment, so that would not be before Armageddon.

We really don't present our own assumptions; it is our understanding about the 1,000 years that people will be resurrected then and will be taught about God and Jesus, because that is what the entire canon of Scriptures seems to direct us to believe. I could give a very lengthy post on all the parts of the Bible that figure into this, but it would take up alot of space and be kind of awkward, because we wouldn't be face-to-face to discuss in a timely manner what you would think of it as we go. I would recommend having a free personal Bible discussion with a JW, so you could express your views at whatever point you wanted to. You can request one on www.jw.org .

As to your last question: No, I am not saying we are in the 1,000 year reign of Christ now. That will come after Armageddon.

meshak
February 19th, 2016, 08:14 AM
Well, the resurrection will surely take place during Christ's Millennial Reign. I don't think he'll do it in this system of things. Why would he raise people from the dead just to have them have to go through Armageddon? (John 5:28)

What is your take on Revelation 20:11-13? I get the distinct impression that the dead are raised somehow in conjunction with the great white throne judgment, so that would not be before Armageddon.

We really don't present our own assumptions; it is our understanding about the 1,000 years that people will be resurrected then and will be taught about God and Jesus, because that is what the entire canon of Scriptures seems to direct us to believe. I could give a very lengthy post on all the parts of the Bible that figure into this, but it would take up alot of space and be kind of awkward, because we wouldn't be face-to-face to discuss in a timely manner what you would think of it as we go. I would recommend having a free personal Bible discussion with a JW, so you could express your views at whatever point you wanted to. You can request one on www.jw.org .

As to your last question: No, I am not saying we are in the 1,000 year reign of Christ now. That will come after Armageddon.

Ok, thanks. You make sense. I have talked with one couple about the same thing and they could not explain simply like you did. I just got so frustrate with them. So I just quite.

So what happens in 1000 year rein? The Bible does not say anything about it.

BTW, your organization have ego issue. They show an attitude of "we know it all", especially elders who are men. Arrogance is not of God.

KingdomRose
February 20th, 2016, 04:19 PM
Ok, thanks. You make sense. I have talked with one couple about the same thing and they could not explain simply like you did. I just got so frustrate with them. So I just quite.

So what happens in 1000 year rein? The Bible does not say anything about it.

BTW, your organization have ego issue. They show an attitude of "we know it all", especially elders who are men. Arrogance is not of God.

You seem like a very kind, humble person. Did you actually have a Bible discussion with JWs? It is unfortunate that some of us aren't too swift upstairs, and sometimes we don't ask others for help in explaining things. I know I do....I am constantly researching.

During the 1000 Year Reign Jesus and his "cabinet" (my word:) ) will guide us here on Earth (they will be in heaven) in restoring the planet to its pristine condition, like it was in Adam's day. We will also be guided in providing homes for those who are resurrected, as well as building our own homes. After Armageddon there might not be a physical way to be informed about such things as who lives where, for awhile anyway, so it would be vital for Jesus to be there to instruct us in detail about where to build and for whom. He would guide any food distribution project, until everyone had their own gardens, and many things like that.

I believe the Bible does say things about the Millennial Reign. Every prophecy about what the world will be like in Paradise conditions is really speaking of the 1000 Year Reign. Look up these few scriptures in your Bible:

Isaiah 9: 6,7; Isaiah 11: 6-9; Isaiah 33: 24; Isaiah 35: 1,6; Isaiah 65: 21-25

Job 33: 25

Psalm 37: 9-11,29; Psalm 46: 8,9; Psalm 72: 7,8


There are more, but if you read these you can get the idea.:)

I understand what you're saying about arrogance. I cringe to think that some JWs apparently look down on others because they believe we have the truth (and we do, but we HAVE to respect other people!). I have encountered arrogance myself, causing me terrible grief. But I know that they will be humbled in God's due time. Arrogance is NOT an example of the Christian spirit.

meshak
February 20th, 2016, 05:25 PM
Thank you Rose. I will look into it.

Yes, we had a long talk. I had no idea why he gave me such hard way to answer my question.

I think women are much better answering questions.

KingdomRose
February 20th, 2016, 05:52 PM
Thank you Rose. I will look into it.

Yes, we had a long talk. I had no idea why he gave me such hard way to answer my question.

I think women are much better answering questions.

Sometimes. :) Some women have attitudes too. I find that to stand up to them (calmly, of course, and perhaps with a smile) and tell them exactly how their attitude affects you....is helpful. Even the men! I used to just feel sad and hold it all inside, but now I face up to them. That's the only way they will realize how their attitudes affect others.

:thumb:

Interplanner
February 21st, 2016, 09:20 PM
You seem like a very kind, humble person. Did you actually have a Bible discussion with JWs? It is unfortunate that some of us aren't too swift upstairs, and sometimes we don't ask others for help in explaining things. I know I do....I am constantly researching.

During the 1000 Year Reign Jesus and his "cabinet" (my word:) ) will guide us here on Earth (they will be in heaven) in restoring the planet to its pristine condition, like it was in Adam's day. We will also be guided in providing homes for those who are resurrected, as well as building our own homes. After Armageddon there might not be a physical way to be informed about such things as who lives where, for awhile anyway, so it would be vital for Jesus to be there to instruct us in detail about where to build and for whom. He would guide any food distribution project, until everyone had their own gardens, and many things like that.

I believe the Bible does say things about the Millennial Reign. Every prophecy about what the world will be like in Paradise conditions is really speaking of the 1000 Year Reign. Look up these few scriptures in your Bible:

Isaiah 9: 6,7; Isaiah 11: 6-9; Isaiah 33: 24; Isaiah 35: 1,6; Isaiah 65: 21-25

Job 33: 25

Psalm 37: 9-11,29; Psalm 46: 8,9; Psalm 72: 7,8


There are more, but if you read these you can get the idea.:)

I understand what you're saying about arrogance. I cringe to think that some JWs apparently look down on others because they believe we have the truth (and we do, but we HAVE to respect other people!). I have encountered arrogance myself, causing me terrible grief. But I know that they will be humbled in God's due time. Arrogance is NOT an example of the Christian spirit.



Those kinds of passages are about the NHNE; we should be following Peter on this who said nothing about a millenium in the single most complete NT statement about what comes after the day of judgement. Or before it.