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Squeaky
August 3rd, 2015, 08:18 PM
Trinity Is A Strong Delusion

So I might just as well show it to you. God said if you dont have a love of the truth He would put strong delusions in scripture that you would fall for. He did. Now there are verses that can be taken out of context to form a deceiving belief. The trinity has done this. Trinity isnt in the bible, deity isnt in the bible. I refuted all the evidence they could come up with in the ninties. So now they step outside of the scriptures to explain something that isnt in scripture the trinity. They explain the trinity with eggs, water, door nobs, human families. They break every rule that a believer must follow to find the truth. Dont think beyond what is written, and dont add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

xxx Once they get you hooked, they start telling you no one can truly understand the trinity, and no one will truly understand it until after we leave this world. That is not what scripture teaches. Scripture teaches us there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. The trinity plants all these doubts in your mind so you won't go looking for the truth.

Mark 4:22-23
22 "For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.
23 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
(NKJ)

xxx They want you to worship God through your imagination. And if you want to find the Holy Spirit you must get rid of your imagination. The only power we have against deception is the Word of God. The trinitarians dont want you in the Word.

2 Cor 10:4-5
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(KJV)

xxx Trinitarians are the blind leading the blind.

Luke 6:39
39 And He spoke a parable to them: "Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch?
(NKJ)

II Th 2:10-12
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(NKJ)


2 Pet 3:16
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 3rd, 2015, 08:19 PM
Are One Delusion
The are one means to be in agreement. The same way that Jesus is in agreement with God, Jesus wants us to be in agreement with them.

John 10:30
30 "I and My Father are one."
(NKJ)
John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:

Squeaky
August 3rd, 2015, 08:19 PM
THE I AM DELUSION
John 7:39-43
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
40 Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.
41 Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?
42 Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
43 So there was a division among the people because of him.
John 8:23-24
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
John 8:28-29
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(KJV)
xxx Jesus was teaching in the temple and they were questioning Him on whether or not He was the Christ. Then they all went home and came back the next day to question Him some more. When Jesus told them: you will die in your sins if you do not believe that I am He. Then in verse 58 Jesus was telling them that even before Abraham that I am . But they picked up stones to throw at Him so they cut Jesus off in the middle of His sentance and Jesus got out of there. Jesus was claiming that" I AM He" the Christ. Jesus was not claiming He was God.
verse 24 and 28 Jesus said it, I am he. Jesus was saying He was the Christ that they were speaking of in John 7-41. But in is obvious why they didnt understand from John 7-39 they havent received the Holy Spirit yet. And even today many do not know the Spirit and get deceived in the verses.

Squeaky
August 3rd, 2015, 08:21 PM
John 1-14
I said
look at the word (made) in KJV. You have (became) in your version. Now look at some of the definitions--be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled,. The flesh ended control and the Word took control. Became is a much better word. It wasnt a part of the original flesh but "became" part of the flesh. Most of the time when the Word is talking about the flesh it is talking about your emotions and feelings. And when it says to crucify your flesh with its emotions and feelings. Its talking about taking back control from them. And giving the control to the Word of God. The verses. If you can do that the Word becomes your flesh. Jesus gave total control to the Word of God.


John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(KJV)

1096 ginomai (ghin'-om-ahee);

a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"- erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):

KJV-- arise, be assembled, be (-come, -fall, -haveself), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

xxxNow look at the last part of the verse. What is the glory of God that is full of grace and truth-His Word, spoke Word.

the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

xxxNow how did we receive that grace and truth?

John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
(NKJ)

xxxNow how did Jesus get the Word?

2 Cor 5:18-19
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

xxxIts obvious once you understand how John 1-1 was originally worded.

The KJV was taken from all these versions. The 1611 KJV was the one who added "He" in place of "IT". The He was added to give the Word authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". He is a Spiritual title of authority. And the KJV wanted to give the Word(verses) the same title of authority. It was never meant to say that Jesus is the Word. The Word came through Jesus. And the Word can control flesh or become flesh.

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

Bright Raven
August 3rd, 2015, 08:21 PM
Squeaky on TOL is a delusion.

Squeaky
August 3rd, 2015, 08:22 PM
ROM 9-1,5

Paul is speaking of how grief and great sorrow has filled his heart. Over the fathers in the past who worship in the flesh. Believe that Jesus is God. When He isnt. He is so sorrowful in his own flesh that he could wish himself accursed from Christ for his brethren. After all his witnessing they still believe Jesus is the eternally blessed God. He is thinking that the Word he has been preaching has taken no affect. But he knows that these are the children of the flesh. Which are not the children of God yet.

Rom 9:1-8
1 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit,
2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart.
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;
5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel,
7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, "In Isaac your seed shall be called."
8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 3rd, 2015, 08:23 PM
Jesus Was Refered to By Many Comparisons.

xxx Jesus was refered to by different names of comparisons. All these names were comparisons to what was coming through Jesus. The Word of God. The Way, the truth, The Root, The Word, the Light,The vine, The Morning Star. All because the Word of God came through Jesus from God the Father.


John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
(NKJ)


Rev 22:16
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."
(NKJ)

Rev 19:13
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
(NKJ)

John 1:7
7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
(NKJ)

John 1:9-10
9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
(NKJ)

John 15:5
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 3rd, 2015, 08:24 PM
Phil 2-1,9 (Humility)
Phil 2:1-9

1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy,
2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.
4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others.
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
(NKJ)

Phil 2:5-13
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
(NKJ)

xxx Jesus was explaining that when God is working through you it would be easy to get puffed up. But Jesus is teaching us how to stay humble. Remembering others can get aroused against us if they see God working through us. They will even call us God but we must remain humble. Knowing that we are not doing the works. But God is doing them through us. We must discipline ourselves to stay humble.


1 Cor 9:27
27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 10:4-6
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 3rd, 2015, 08:30 PM
Squeaky on TOL is a delusion.

I said
Raven are you turning into a heckler now? That's not like you.

Squeaky
August 3rd, 2015, 09:10 PM
Anyway check out these deffinitions from the big dictionary at the library.

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Bradley D
August 3rd, 2015, 10:46 PM
God said if you dont have a love of the truth He would put strong delusions in scripture that you would fall for. He did.

Delusional scripture? Examples.

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 04:34 AM
Delusional scripture? Examples.

I said
There is nothing delusional about the Word of God. And every verse is straight out of the Word of God. Look them up. Its all in there and it is all real.

Caino
August 4th, 2015, 05:06 AM
I said
There is nothing delusional about the Word of God. And every verse is straight out of the Word of God. Look them up. Its all in there and it is all real.

errrm, no, you said "He would put strong delusions in scripture that you would fall for."


Please, step away from the Bible, religion isn't for you!

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 05:23 AM
errrm, no, you said "He would put strong delusions in scripture that you would fall for."


Please, step away from the Bible, religion isn't for you!

I said
Have you ever read that Jesus was a stumbling stone to the Jews?

Rom 9:32-33
32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
33 As it is written: "Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense, and whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
(NKJ)

I think what would be a better idea is if you would start reading your bible.

II Th 2:10-12
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(NKJ)

Caino
August 4th, 2015, 05:45 AM
When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,…

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 06:49 AM
When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,…

I said
That is a good example of three different being's with three different positions. All working to the same goal.

Caino
August 4th, 2015, 06:59 AM
I said
That is a good example of three different being's with three different positions. All working to the same goal.

The Father delegates creative powers and authority in his Son(s). They are the Fathers of their respective creations. Our Son, Christ Michael, is to all intents and purposes God to us. To have see the Son incarnate was to have seen the Father.



"Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."


"Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip?

how can you say, 'Show us the Father ?

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 07:02 AM
The Father delegates creative powers and authority in his Son(s). They are the Fathers of their respective creations. Our Son, Christ Michael is to all intents and purposes God to us. To have see the Son incarnate was to have seen the Father.



"Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."


"Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip?

how can you say, 'Show us the Father ?

I said
Even if it means you go against the Son when He said. The Father is the ONLY true God. Jesus knew His place. Your trying to change what He said.

John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Caino
August 4th, 2015, 07:18 AM
I said
Even if it means you go against the Son when He said. The Father is the ONLY true God. Jesus knew His place. Your trying to change what He said.

John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

The Father is the only true God, he has divine Sons who are indistinguishably unified in divinity. It's really incomprehensible to the time bound, finite mind. So it becomes then a realization in faith. Jesus stretched our minds and hearts as far as he could given the paucity of mans conceptualization. It would be like going to the jungle and trying to explain the New York stock exchange to the Bantu tribe who's numbering system goes up to 1,2,3, many. That is the tragic blunder of man speculating about God, man assumes that because he can't understand things then those things can't be. So we end up creating a God largely in our own image and ignorance.

The apostles often doubted and misunderstood Jesus. They were doing the best they could.

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 08:10 AM
The Father is the only true God, he has divine Sons who are indistinguishably unified in divinity. It's really incomprehensible to the time bound, finite mind. So it becomes then a realization in faith. Jesus stretched our minds and hearts as far as he could given the paucity of mans conceptualization. It would be like going to the jungle and trying to explain the New York stock exchange to the Bantu tribe who's numbering system goes up to 1,2,3, many. That is the tragic blunder of man speculating about God, man assumes that because he can't understand things then those things can't be. So we end up creating a God largely in our own image and ignorance.

The apostles often doubted and misunderstood Jesus. They were doing the best they could.


I said
That is the myth that Trinitarians use to manipulate the sheep.
The Word says there is nothing hidden from those who are true believers in the Word.



Mark 4:22-23
22 "For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.
23 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
(NKJ)

To believe the way you do takes a lot of the imagination. And that is what the devil has a lot of freedom in.

2 Cor 10:4-5
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(KJV)

But if you learn the rules of believing you can get rid of the imagination. Don't think beyond what is written, and don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.


1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

Caino
August 4th, 2015, 09:09 AM
Don't think beyond what is written, and don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.

Well that's what the Jews did to reject Jesus.

According to you Jesus confused everybody and then left, only the religious fanatics with special insights can see what's not there.

Sherman
August 4th, 2015, 09:27 AM
errrm, no, you said "He would put strong delusions in scripture that you would fall for."


Please, step away from the Bible, religion isn't for you!

Sadly this is one point where I would have to agree with you. He needs to step away from the Bible.

Bright Raven
August 4th, 2015, 10:33 AM
I said
Raven are you turning into a heckler now? That's not like you.

Just telling you the truth Squeaks. You are a delusion.

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 11:43 AM
Well that's what the Jews did to reject Jesus.

According to you Jesus confused everybody and then left, only the religious fanatics with special insights can see what's not there.

I said
lol You cant really be that blind. Can you?

John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 11:45 AM
Sadly this is one point where I would have to agree with you. He needs to step away from the Bible.

I said
lol I think it would be much better if you all would open your bibles from time to time and read it. I have always looked for someone who knows more than me so I can grow and learn from them. In here it seems you all are looking for someone who is dumber than you so you can flex your intellectual muscles and impress them.

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 11:48 AM
Just telling you the truth Squeaks. You are a delusion.

I said
lol No that is the one thing you haven't done. I have proved everything I have claimed with scripture. Apparently you don't believe scripture. You traded in truth for a wild imagination.

John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 02:51 PM
Complaining is not proving anything. You all need evidence. And context. That is what I use. And you can see how convicting it is.

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 05:06 PM
There is only one three in one god in the whole bible. He is the only trinity. And satan is using Trinitarians to mock the true God.

Rev 12:9
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 06:52 PM
You all don't know how it breaks my heart to see you reject the teachings of the Holy Spirit. And rejecting all the verses He gives me to share with you.

Bright Raven
August 4th, 2015, 06:58 PM
I said
lol No that is the one thing you haven't done. I have proved everything I have claimed with scripture. Apparently you don't believe scripture. You traded in truth for a wild imagination.

John 17:17
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.
(NKJ)

You have proved nothing except that you are a non-Christian heretic. I know you feel the same about me.

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 07:06 PM
You have proved nothing except that you are a non-Christian heretic. I know you feel the same about me.

I said
I've known you along time now. And I don't feel one way or the other. I weep when I see you reject even more of Gods Word. Over the years I have refuted and showed you how wrong you were with scripture and revelations. I always thought we were brothers. Me with the Holy Spirit guidance. And you walking in deception.

jzeidler
August 5th, 2015, 10:54 AM
Here you go, the trinity is no delusion unless you are going to ignore scripture.

http://youtu.be/5M7ePlmgVxA

jzeidler
August 5th, 2015, 10:56 AM
Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man. John 1:1-2, 14, Jn. 1:18 Phil. 2:5-8, Col. 2:9, Phil. 2:10, Is. 9:6, Mk. 1:2-3, Lk. 1:17, Ac. 2:21, Mt. 4:1-2, Mt. 8:23-24, Lk. 2:52, Lk. 24:39, Jn. 1:14, Heb. 2:17-18, Heb. 2:14.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 11:29 AM
Here you go, the trinity is no delusion unless you are going to ignore scripture.

http://youtu.be/5M7ePlmgVxA

I said
lol So your a muslim.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 5th, 2015, 11:58 AM
I said
I've known you along time now. And I don't feel one way or the other. I weep when I see you reject even more of Gods Word. Over the years I have refuted and showed you how wrong you were with scripture and revelations. I always thought we were brothers. Me with the Holy Spirit guidance. And you walking in deception.

You weep and yet you've said several times that you were free of ALL
emotions? Even when you ran that woman over on the freeway, you
said you had no feelings about it either way?

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 12:02 PM
You weep and yet you've said several times that you were free of ALL
emotions? Even when you ran that woman over on the freeway, you
said you had no feelings about it either way?

I said
lololo You never miss an opportunity to exaggerate do you. Weep is an affection not an emotion.

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 12:10 PM
I said
I've known you along time now. And I don't feel one way or the other. I weep when I see you reject even more of Gods Word. Over the years I have refuted and showed you how wrong you were with scripture and revelations. I always thought we were brothers. Me with the Holy Spirit guidance. And you walking in deception.

Squeaky, You have yet to refute 1 John 1:1-2. Jesus is eternal therefore God.

1 John 1:1-2Modern English Version (MEV)

The Word of Life
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have touched, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was revealed, and we have seen it and testify to it, and announce to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us—

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 12:16 PM
Squeaky, You have yet to refute 1 John 1:1-2. Jesus is eternal therefore God.

1 John 1:1-2Modern English Version (MEV)

The Word of Life
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have touched, concerning the Word of life— 2 the life was revealed, and we have seen it and testify to it, and announce to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us—

I said
Oh come now haven't you been keeping up.

xxxIts obvious once you understand how John 1-1 was originally worded.

The KJV was taken from all these versions. The 1611 KJV was the one who added "He" in place of "IT". The He was added to give the Word authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". He is a Spiritual title of authority. And the KJV wanted to give the Word(verses) the same title of authority. It was never meant to say that Jesus is the Word. The Word came through Jesus. And the Word can control flesh or become flesh.

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 12:40 PM
I said
Oh come now haven't you been keeping up.

xxxIts obvious once you understand how John 1-1 was originally worded.

The KJV was taken from all these versions. The 1611 KJV was the one who added "He" in place of "IT". The He was added to give the Word authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a "He". He is a Spiritual title of authority. And the KJV wanted to give the Word(verses) the same title of authority. It was never meant to say that Jesus is the Word. The Word came through Jesus. And the Word can control flesh or become flesh.

Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

Come now Squeaky. Are you trying to tell me that that the translation committee for your NKJV bible has deliberately erred and changed the meaning of the text of scripture.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 03:55 PM
Come now Squeaky. Are you trying to tell me that that the translation committee for your NKJV bible has deliberately erred and changed the meaning of the text of scripture.

I said
I'm trying to tell you that the word "He" in John 1-1 was always an "it" until the KJV came out. And tried to turn the "it" into "He".

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 03:56 PM
I said
I'm trying to tell you that the word "He" in John 1-1 was always an "it" until the KJV came out. And tried to turn the "it" into "He".

It is He. Are you saying the translation is incorrect?

Grosnick Marowbe
August 5th, 2015, 04:01 PM
I said
I'm trying to tell you that the word "He" in John 1-1 was always an "it" until the KJV came out. And tried to turn the "it" into "He".

Squeaky, you're an "it."

THall
August 5th, 2015, 04:44 PM
Squeaky on TOL is a delusion.

Please show me the word Trinity in the Bible?

Or are you the delusional one?

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 04:56 PM
Please show me the word Trinity in the Bible?

Or are you the delusional one?

The doctrine is there the word is not. You know that as well as anyone.

1 John 5:7-8

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:08 PM
It is He. Are you saying the translation is incorrect?

I said
The KJV was taken from all these versions. The Word never was a "He".
Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:09 PM
Squeaky, you're an "it."

I said
Do you know what edify means?

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 05:10 PM
I said
The KJV was taken from all these versions. The Word never was a "He".
Tyndale 1534:
Joh 1:1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God. 2 The same was in the beginnynge with God. 3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made. 4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

Bishops 1568:
Joh 1:1 In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God. 2 The same was in the begynnyng with God. 3 All thynges were made by it: and without it, was made nothyng that was made. 4 In it was lyfe, and the lyfe was the lyght of men,

Geneva 1587:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

And now our modern Concordant Literal Version:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being." 4 In it was life, and the life was the light of men."

So then the translation you use is incorrect, It's wrong and does not agree with the early manuscripts.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:14 PM
The doctrine is there the word is not. You know that as well as anyone.

1 John 5:7-8

I said
No its not. Only those who worship in the flesh can see it. Because they haven't followed the rules of believing. Once one learns the rules about believing they can see it isn't there. Don't think beyond what is written. That is how us born again Christians get rid of the imagination.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 05:16 PM
I said
No its not. Only those who worship in the flesh can see it. Because they haven't followed the rules of believing. Once one learns the rules about believing they can see it isn't there. Don't think beyond what is written. That is how us born again Christians get rid of the imagination.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
1 John 5:7 Modern English Version (MEV)

7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:21 PM
So then the translation you use is incorrect, It's wrong and does not agree with the early manuscripts.

I said
No its your lack of discernment. He does not have to be a person. He can be a title of authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a He. The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a He. He is a spiritual title of authority. The bible or the Word can carry the same title of authority. But the weak minded wanted to turn it into a person. And it is only a spiritual title of authority.

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 05:22 PM
I said
No its your lack of discernment. He does not have to be a person. He can be a title of authority. God is neither male nor female and we call Him a He. The Holy Spirit is neither male nor female and we call Him a He. He is a spiritual title of authority. The bible or the Word can carry the same title of authority. But the weak minded wanted to turn it into a person. And it is only a spiritual title of authority.

You would have been better of with it.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:23 PM
1 John 5:7 Modern English Version (MEV)

7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

I said
Context, context, context. Are one in agreement. Agree as one.

I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
(NKJ)

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 05:24 PM
I said
Context, context, context. Are one in agreement. Agree as one.

I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
(NKJ)

:thumb: Trinity!

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:24 PM
You would have been better of with it.

I said
I understand where your at in your walk. I used to be in the milk understanding also.

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 05:25 PM
I said
I understand where your at in your walk. I used to be in the milk understanding also.

I have found that meat tastes much better.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:26 PM
:thumb: Trinity!

I said
The devil is using you to mock God. Here is the only three in one trinity is the bible.


Rev 12:9
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:27 PM
I have found that meat tastes much better.

I said
lolol Now your mind went blank so your going to mock me.

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 05:28 PM
I said
The devil is using you to mock God. Here is the only three in one trinity is the bible.


Rev 12:9
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
(NKJ)

The trinity you speak of is a counterfeit. Don't you know that he has a counterfeit of everything that is of God?

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:31 PM
The trinity you speak of is a counterfeit. Don't you know that he has a counterfeit of everything that is of God?

I said
Not in everything. Satan doesn't have a son named Jesus. And your trinity is of the devil, satan, serpent.

drbrumley
August 5th, 2015, 05:31 PM
I said
Context, context, context. Are one in agreement. Agree as one.

I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
(NKJ)

Talk about a bogus argument. :carryon:

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 05:35 PM
Talk about a bogus argument. :carryon:

I said
ROFLOL And I was afraid I would miss your opinion. That was close.

Rom 12:16
16 Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.
(NKJ)

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 05:39 PM
I said
Not in everything. Satan doesn't have a son named Jesus. And your trinity is of the devil, satan, serpent.

Mine is Father, Son and Holy Spirit thank you. Yours is the devil, the beast and the false prophet.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 06:02 PM
Mine is Father, Son and Holy Spirit thank you. Yours is the devil, the beast and the false prophet.

I said
Wait aminute. Is not a three in one God. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are all separate beings. Three different being in three different places. All at the same time.

Matt 3:16-17
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(NKJ)

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 06:06 PM
I said
Wait aminute. Is not a three in one God. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are all separate beings. Three different being in three different places. All at the same time.

Matt 3:16-17
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(NKJ)

Nope! One essence, three persons.

JFish123
August 5th, 2015, 06:24 PM
I said

Wait aminute. Is not a three in one God. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are all separate beings. Three different being in three different places. All at the same time.



Matt 3:16-17

16When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.

17And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

(NKJ)


Curious what are your beliefs? Are you a Jehovahs Witness who doesn't believe in the Trinity or someone else?

JFish123
August 5th, 2015, 06:29 PM
THE TRINITY
The pagans believed in a Triad of gods. They were polytheists. That means they believed in three main gods (Triad) who were completely separate beings. And they ruled over the rest of the gods.
The Trinity is 1 God with three persons-The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that are equal in essence and nature as One God. And they rule over No other gods as there's only one God. A triangle has three point but it is still One triangle.
We have One-The Trinity. And the Bible clearly states in the Trinity, so it's not from "outside pagan religions."
For example, Peter refers to the saints who have been chosen "according to the foreknowledge of God The Father." (1 Peter 1:2) when Jesus made a post resurrection appearance to Thomas, the disciple worshipfully responded by addressing Him, "My Lord and MY GOD." (John 20:28) The Father also said of the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever." In Acts 5:3-4, we are told that lying to the Holy Spirit is equivalent to lying to God. Peter said,"Ananias, why has satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit,,, You have not lied to men but to God."
Besides being called God, each of the three persons are seen on different occasions to possess the attributes of deity. Note the following examples:
All three persons possess the attribute of omnipresence:
The Father (1 Kings 8:27)
The Son (Matthew 28:20)
The Holy Spirit (psalm 139:7)
All three have the attribute of omniscience:
The Father (psalm 147:5)
The Son (John 16:30)
The Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:10)
All three have the attribute of omnipotence:
The Father (Psalm 135:6)
The Son (Matthew 28:18)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 15:19)
Holiness is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Revelation 15:4)
The Son (Acts 3:14)
The Holy Spirit (Romans 1:4)
Eternity is ascribed to each of the three persons:
The Father (Psalm 90:2)
The Son (Micah 5:2, John 1:4)
The Holy Spirit (Hebrews 9:14)
Each if the three persons is described as the Truth:
The Father (John 7:28)
The Son (Revelation 3:7)
The Holy Spirit (1 John 5:6)
Each of the three is called Lord (Luke 2:11, Romans 10:12, 2 Corinthians 3:17) Each is called Everlasting (Romans 16:26, Hebrews 9:14, Revelation 22:13) Each is called Almighty (Genesis 17:1, Romans 15:19, Revelation 1:8)
And each is called Powerful (Jeremiah 32:17, Zechariah 4:6, Hebrews 1:3)
Can any one other than God have the Attributes of God?
In addition to having the attributes of deity, each of the three persons were involved in doing the works of deity. For example, all three were involved in the creation of the world:
The Father (Genesis 2:7, Psalm 102:25, 1 Corinthians 8:6)
The Son (John 1:3, Colossians 1;16, Hebrews 1:2)
The Holy Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Job 33:4, Psalm 104:30)
They were also involved in the incarnation and resurrection but I won't go into those verses as I think these are good for now.
Also to mention, that the pagans taught the concept of a flood that killed most of humankind and the concept of a messiah like figure named Tammuz who was allegedly resurrected. Are those concepts false just because pagans taught remotely similar accounts?
And if you still don't understand the Trinity, does it mean it's not True? I mean do you think it is possible for human beings to know everything about God? If yes, please explain Isaiah 55:8-9, Romans 11:33, and 1 Corinthians 13:12.
We should not reject a doctrine simply because we cannot fully comprehend it. Especially since it's in the Bible :)

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 06:32 PM
Nope! One essence, three persons.

I said
lolo Now your changing your story from before. But lets go with this one. Is one essence in the bible, anywhere?

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 06:36 PM
.
We should not reject a doctrine simply because we cannot fully comprehend it. Especially since it's in the Bible :)

I said
Yes we should. The rules of believing are. Don't think beyond what is written, and don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 06:36 PM
I said
lolo Now your changing your story from before. But lets go with this one. Is one essence in the bible, anywhere?

Yep.

1 John 5:7 Modern English Version (MEV)

7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 06:41 PM
Yep.

1 John 5:7 Modern English Version (MEV)

7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

I said
I don't see the word essence in there anywhere. But lets go with the context of the verse. The Father the word and the Holy Spirit agree as one. That is what Jesus came to teach us that we also agree with them.

I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
(NKJ)


John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 06:43 PM
I said
I don't see the word essence in there anywhere. But lets go with the context of the verse. The Father the word and the Holy Spirit agree as one. That is what Jesus came to teach us that we also agree with them.

I Jn 5:7-8
7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.
(NKJ)


John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)

Well how about that Squeaky, you agree with the trinity.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 06:59 PM
Well how about that Squeaky, you agree with the trinity.

I said
Oh I see. If you can make Jesus into God, then you make yourself a God also. I would say you have an ego problem.


John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 07:04 PM
I said
Oh I see. If you can make Jesus into God, then you make yourself a God also. I would say you have an ego problem.


John 17:22
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
(NKJ)

Noooo. I never said that. That is an invention of your overactive imagination.

JFish123
August 5th, 2015, 07:05 PM
I said

Yes we should. The rules of believing are. Don't think beyond what is written, and don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.



1 Cor 4:6

6Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.

(NKJ)



Rev 22:18-19

18For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;

19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

(NKJ)


But it IS what is written. I gave pretty clear biblical verses. A couple dozen actually :)

drbrumley
August 5th, 2015, 07:22 PM
So Squeaky, honestly, who is Jesus? Was He created, had a beginning?

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 07:46 PM
Noooo. I never said that. That is an invention of your overactive imagination.

I said
I never said that you said that. I'm just speculating on the evidence.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 07:48 PM
But it IS what is written. I gave pretty clear biblical verses. A couple dozen actually :)

I said
I didn't see that. You might try it again.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 07:49 PM
So Squeaky, honestly, who is Jesus? Was He created, had a beginning?

I said
well it says He was.

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)

drbrumley
August 5th, 2015, 07:50 PM
I said
well it says He was.

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)

He was what?

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 07:54 PM
He was what?

I said
God created Jesus for Himself. Then God created everything else for Jesus.

JFish123
August 5th, 2015, 07:54 PM
10 QUESTIONS for any JEHOVAHS WITNESS here on this thread:

1. If the Watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the Watchtower organization does call themselves "God's Spirit-directed Prophet" what is the difference? Is there such a thing as an "uninspired prophet"?

2. Since the Organization has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that all the former Jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted into fellowship again? Were these Ex-Jw's in fact disfellowshipped for truth and knew things that the governing body did not?

3. If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?

4. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942, how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?
What kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence? This represents about 53% of the time they have existed?

5. Jn 1:3 says that Jesus created "all things", but in Isa 44:24, God says that he "by myself" created the heavens and the earth and asks the question "Who was with me?" when the heavens and the earth were created. How can this be since if Jesus was created by God, then he would have been with God when everything else was created?

6. The NWT translates Jn 1:1 as "... and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was a god". How can the Word (Jesus) be "a god" if God says in Deut 32:39, "See now that I-I am he, and there are NO gods together WITH me ..."?

7. If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Stephen just before his death in Acts 7:59, pray to Jesus to "receive my spirit"? How could Jesus receive Stephen's spirit if a man's spirit ceases to exist when the body dies?

8. If Christians are persecuted for the sake of Jehovah's name, why did Christ tell the first Christians that they would be persecuted for the sake of his (Jesus') name instead of Jehovah's (Mt 24:9, Mk 13:13, Lk 21:12, 17, Jn 15:21, and Acts 9:16)?

9. The Bible says that ONLY God is our savior (Hos 13:4, Isa 43:11,45:21, etc.). How can it be then, that the Bible repeatedly says that Jesus Christ is our savior (Lk 2:11, Phil 3:20, Tit 2:13, 3:6, 2Pet 1:1, 2:20, 3:18, etc.)?

10. If the human soul IS the person, how could the soul go out of a person (Gen 35:18) or come back into a person (1Kings 17:21)?

oatmeal
August 5th, 2015, 07:55 PM
When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,…

If Jesus was God, would he not already have all authority?

Who gave Jesus all authority?

If God gave Jesus all authority, then God would not have any left, now would He?

All authority to do what? To usurp the authority of the one who gave him authority?

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 07:58 PM
10 QUESTIONS for any JEHOVAHS WITNESS here on this thread:

1. If the Watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the Watchtower organization does call themselves "God's Spirit-directed Prophet" what is the difference? Is there such a thing as an "uninspired prophet"?

2. Since the Organization has received "new light" regarding the 1914 generation, and completely changed their view on this, does this mean that all the former Jehovah's witnesses who were disfellowshipped years ago for the same view the organization is now teaching will automatically be accepted into fellowship again? Were these Ex-Jw's in fact disfellowshipped for truth and knew things that the governing body did not?

3. If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?

4. Since the Jehovah's Witness organization currently rejects most of the teachings of its founder Charles Taze Russell (who was president of the organization from 1879-1916), and since they also reject "Judge" Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who succeeded Russell as president from 1916 - 1942, how can we be sure that in 25 more years, Jehovah's Witnesses won't also reject the current president, Milton G. Henschel (1992 - present), as they did Russell and Rutherford?
What kind of confidence can anyone have in an organization that rejected its founder and first two presidents for the first 63 years of its existence? This represents about 53% of the time they have existed?

5. Jn 1:3 says that Jesus created "all things", but in Isa 44:24, God says that he "by myself" created the heavens and the earth and asks the question "Who was with me?" when the heavens and the earth were created. How can this be since if Jesus was created by God, then he would have been with God when everything else was created?

6. The NWT translates Jn 1:1 as "... and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was a god". How can the Word (Jesus) be "a god" if God says in Deut 32:39, "See now that I-I am he, and there are NO gods together WITH me ..."?

7. If the spirit of a man has no existence apart from the body, why does Stephen just before his death in Acts 7:59, pray to Jesus to "receive my spirit"? How could Jesus receive Stephen's spirit if a man's spirit ceases to exist when the body dies?

8. If Christians are persecuted for the sake of Jehovah's name, why did Christ tell the first Christians that they would be persecuted for the sake of his (Jesus') name instead of Jehovah's (Mt 24:9, Mk 13:13, Lk 21:12, 17, Jn 15:21, and Acts 9:16)?

9. The Bible says that ONLY God is our savior (Hos 13:4, Isa 43:11,45:21, etc.). How can it be then, that the Bible repeatedly says that Jesus Christ is our savior (Lk 2:11, Phil 3:20, Tit 2:13, 3:6, 2Pet 1:1, 2:20, 3:18, etc.)?

10. If the human soul IS the person, how could the soul go out of a person (Gen 35:18) or come back into a person (1Kings 17:21)?

I said
Well I'm not a Jehovah's Witness so I cant answer any of your questions. But you are venting loudly on them. Are you an XJehovah's Witness ? I have never been enfluenced by any denomination.

drbrumley
August 5th, 2015, 08:04 PM
I said
God created Jesus for Himself. Then God created everything else for Jesus.

That's not what it says....

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 08:05 PM
That's not what it says....

I said
Well then help me out, what do you think it says?

JFish123
August 5th, 2015, 08:05 PM
I said

Well I'm not a Jehovah's Witness so I cant answer any of your questions. But you are venting loudly on them. Are you an XJehovah's Witness ? I have never been enfluenced by any denomination.


Nope not an ex-JW but you just use wordings of verses and hold beliefs that are like there's. Jesus is a created being, there's no trinity, are all docterine a of the Jehovahs Witnesses

drbrumley
August 5th, 2015, 08:07 PM
I said
Well then help me out, what do you think it says?

COL 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

How exactly are you reading this?

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 08:08 PM
Nope not an ex-JW but you just use wordings of verses and hold beliefs that are like there's. Jesus is a created being, there's no trinity, are all docterine a of the Jehovahs Witnesses

I said
lol well I would have to figure they got some of it right then.

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 08:08 PM
I said
God created Jesus for Himself. Then God created everything else for Jesus.

Where does it say that Jesus is created? Book, Chapter, and verse.

JFish123
August 5th, 2015, 08:22 PM
Some people like to interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of course, Jesus, the Word become flesh (John 1:1, 14) is not a created thing but that hasn't stopped people from claiming He is.
Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.
Second, the Biblical use of the word "firstborn" can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born," (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.
Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:
Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction."
Jer. 31:9, " . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn."
Scripture best interprets Scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as some people says it means here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family, and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) and is also the first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all of creation. People should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 08:25 PM
Where does it say that Jesus is created? Book, Chapter, and verse.

I said
Ok. Everything that was born was on earth. But even before anything was created Jesus was.

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 08:26 PM
I said
Ok. Everything that was born was on earth. But even before anything was created Jesus was.

Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)

That is a quote on position not physical birth. Try again.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 08:27 PM
Some people like to interpret the word "firstborn" here to mean "first created" because it is consistent with their theological presupposition that Jesus is a created thing. Of course, Jesus, the Word become flesh (John 1:1, 14) is not a created thing but that hasn't stopped people from claiming He is.
Nevertheless, there is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn" and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.
Second, the Biblical use of the word "firstborn" can mean the first born child in a family (Luke 2:7), but it can also mean "pre-eminence." In Psalm 89:20, 27 it says, "I have found David My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him . . . I also shall make him My first-born," (NASB). As you can see, David, who was the last one born in his family, was called the firstborn by God. This is a title of preeminence.
Third, firstborn is also a title that is transferable:
Gen. 41:51-52, "And Joseph called the name of the first-born Manasseh: For, said he, God hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house. And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath made me fruitful in the land of my affliction."
Jer. 31:9, " . . . for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is My firstborn."
Scripture best interprets Scripture. Firstborn does not require a meaning of first created as some people says it means here. "Firstborn" can mean the first born person in a family, and it can also be a title of preeminence which is transferable. That is obvious since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14) and is also the first born son of Mary. In addition, He is the pre-eminent one in all of creation. People should consider this when they examine Col. 1:15.

I said
That's alittle to intellectual for me.

Matt 23:24
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 08:29 PM
Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)


That is a quote on position not physical birth. Try again.

I said
That wasn't a physical birth. It was done before there was any physical to have.

Bright Raven
August 5th, 2015, 08:31 PM
Col 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
(NKJ)



I said
That wasn't a physical birth. It was done before there was any physical to have.

It happened in eternity past. Oops, there is that word eternity again. We know what that means.

JFish123
August 5th, 2015, 08:39 PM
I said

That's alittle to intellectual for me.



Matt 23:24

24"Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

(NKJ)


I'm using scripture to interpret scripture. Hardly straining a gnat. Just because someone can't understand a point In scripture doesn't make it incorrect

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 08:39 PM
It happened in eternity past. Oops, there is that word eternity again. We know what that means.

I said
lolol What is wrong with eternity?

patrick jane
August 5th, 2015, 08:49 PM
John 14:25-26 KJV

John 14:27 KJV -

and

John 14:28 KJV

CLEARLY shows Father, Son, Holy Ghost - the 3 are One = Trinity/Triune

also plainly Jesus says the Father is greater than He

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 08:55 PM
John 14:25-26 KJV

John 14:27 KJV -

and

John14:28 KJV

CLEARLY shows Father, Son, Holy Ghost - the 3 are One = Trinity/Triune

also plainly Jesus says the Father is greater than He

I said
well if the Father is greater than Jesus. That means the Father is the only God.

JFish123
August 5th, 2015, 08:56 PM
God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as the Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc. These are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

JFish123
August 5th, 2015, 08:58 PM
I said

well if the Father is greater than Jesus. That means the Father is the only God.

If Jesus is God, why did Jesus say the Father was greater than He (John 14:28)?
He said this because His position was different from that of God the Father--not His nature. Heb. 2:9 says that Jesus was made for a little while lower than the angels, and Gal. 4:4 says that He was under the Law. Therefore, as a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father but not different in nature. This would also explain why He grew in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52).
By comparison, a husband is the head of the family, and the wife is not. Though their positions are different, he has greater authority. Their natures are the same. This is how it works with Jesus. His nature is the same as the Father, but He was sent by the Father (John 6:44) and was in a lesser position due to His incarnation and being under the Law.

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 08:59 PM
God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as the Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc. These are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

I said
Well if that were true don't you think One of them would have said that. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. Paul said we only have one God, the Father.
Are you suggesting that Jesus or Paul made a mistake?

John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 5th, 2015, 09:01 PM
If Jesus is God, why did Jesus say the Father was greater than He (John 14:28)?
He said this because His position was different from that of God the Father--not His nature. Heb. 2:9 says that Jesus was made for a little while lower than the angels, and Gal. 4:4 says that He was under the Law. Therefore, as a man, He was in a lesser position than the Father but not different in nature. This would also explain why He grew in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52).
By comparison, a husband is the head of the family, and the wife is not. Though their positions are different, he has greater authority. Their natures are the same. This is how it works with Jesus. His nature is the same as the Father, but He was sent by the Father (John 6:44) and was in a lesser position due to His incarnation and being under the Law.


I said
So then you see that Jesus couldn't have been God.

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 04:11 AM
It happened in eternity past. Oops, there is that word eternity again. We know what that means.

I said
Does the word eternity bother you? Do you know the meaning of eternity. There are two. One is no beginning and no end. The other is any given point of time to no end of time. We are going to live in eternity. Eternal life in heaven. The same as Jesus had a beginning and He is going to live in heaven for eternity.
Which one do you use?

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 05:06 AM
I said

lol So your a muslim.


Haha no, I'm using it because you don't believe Jesus is God, Muslims don't believe either. So the speaker answered the muslim's question and showed that Jesus is God. Watch it again and try to learn from it rather than thinking I'm a Muslim.

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 05:08 AM
If Jesus didn't claim to be God why did they execute him for blasphemy (claiming to be God)?

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 05:16 AM
Haha no, I'm using it because you don't believe Jesus is God, Muslims don't believe either. So the speaker answered the muslim's question and showed that Jesus is God. Watch it again and try to learn from it rather than thinking I'm a Muslim.

I said
lol You want me to take the opinion of someone else over the Holy Spirit and the Word? I don't think so.

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 05:19 AM
If Jesus didn't claim to be God why did they execute him for blasphemy (claiming to be God)?

I said
Because He claimed He was the Son of God. And no one had received the Holy Spirit yet.

John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)

Caino
August 6th, 2015, 05:24 AM
If Jesus didn't claim to be God why did they execute him for blasphemy (claiming to be God)?

Good point! The anti-divinity crowd will appeal to secondary references to Jesus and avoid what he so plainly said about himself as well as what he did.

But the apostles didn't believe either until they saw it with their own eyes.

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 05:25 AM
I said

lol You want me to take the opinion of someone else over the Holy Spirit and the Word? I don't think so.


I would like you to take the truth of scripture. He is quoting in context the word of God. To ignore it is to ignore God in order to stay in a comfortable place in your life rather than challenge yourself with the possibility that you might be wrong and in doing so learning something.

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 05:32 AM
I said

Because He claimed He was the Son of God. And no one had received the Holy Spirit yet.



John 7:39

39But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

(NKJ)


Joh 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself EQUAL with God.

Also your verse is talking about why the Holy Spirit hadn't come yet. He haven't come yet because Jesus haven't died and rose again (glorified) making those who believe in him "the righteousness of God in Christ" the cross and resurrection had to occur before the Holy Spirit could come. That verse has nothing to do with your claim of Jesus not being God. In fact it goes into the finality of the cross. Jesus had to die and rase in order to make Christians justified, sanctified, and holy before the Holy Spirit could dwell in us.

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 05:36 AM
Good point! The anti-divinity crowd will appeal to secondary references to Jesus and avoid what he so plainly said about himself as well as what he did.

But the apostles didn't believe either until they saw it with their own eyes.

I said
Secondary references??????? That is all the trinity has is circumstantial verses. Here are factual verses against the trinity.
Jesus says the Father is the only true God

John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)

Jesus says we have the very same God and the very same Father that He does.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

I said
Paul says yet for us there is one God, the Father
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Jesus is between God and man.

1 Tim 2:5
5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 05:40 AM
Joh 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself EQUAL with God.

Also your verse is talking about why the Holy Spirit hadn't come yet. He haven't come yet because Jesus haven't died and rose again (glorified) making those who believe in him "the righteousness of God in Christ" the cross and resurrection had to occur before the Holy Spirit could come. That verse has nothing to do with your claim of Jesus not being God. In fact it goes into the finality of the cross. Jesus had to die and rase in order to make Christians justified, sanctified, and holy before the Holy Spirit could dwell in us.


I said
God is my Father also. And that doesn't make me a God. Without the Holy Spirit they couldn't reason it out to understand. I have a son and he isn't equal to me.

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 05:46 AM
I said

God is my Father also. And that doesn't make me a God. Without the Holy Spirit they couldn't reason it out to understand. I have a son and he isn't equal to me.


Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

To any Jew (his audience) they would know that Jesus was claiming to be God.

Caino
August 6th, 2015, 06:10 AM
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

To any Jew (his audience) they would know that Jesus was claiming to be God.

True again! Whatever Jesus said, the Hebrew experts knew what he meant. The anti-divinity crowd basically argues that Jesus went around misleading people.

Caino
August 6th, 2015, 06:17 AM
T
E
A
R

TEMPLE, IN THREE DAYS,

D
O
W
N
T
H
I
S

I WILL RAISE IT UP

No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 06:25 AM
I said

God is my Father also. And that doesn't make me a God. Without the Holy Spirit they couldn't reason it out to understand. I have a son and he isn't equal to me.


If this is how it really went down why didn't Jesus just simply say this to the high priest at his trial rather than give him another very clear Hebrew picture that Jesus is claiming to be God when he says he is the son of man coming on the clouds (watch the video). If he isn't really God he should have just said to the high priest "Oh sorry I guess you mis-understand my obvious claims to be God but I'm actually not. I'm just his son just like you're his son." That makes no sense for Jesus to clearly claim to be God because the Son of Man in that OT passages accepts worship. Something only God can accept. Did Jesus lie to the high priest? Because it is clear that he is claiming to be God there that's why the high priest got so angry and tore his cloths.

Also, if you read Isaiah 6 you will see that the prophet calls Jesus MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. Clearly saying that this Baby will be God.

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 06:30 AM
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

To any Jew (his audience) they would know that Jesus was claiming to be God.

I said
To the Jew that didn't have the Holy Spirit. There are people today that don't have the Holy Spirit that think that Jesus is God. But who's opinion should we go by. The unlearned or the learned.

John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 06:35 AM
If this is how it really went down why didn't Jesus just simply say this to the high priest at his trial rather than give him another very clear Hebrew picture that Jesus is claiming to be God when he says he is the son of man coming on the clouds (watch the video). If he isn't really God he should have just said to the high priest "Oh sorry I guess you mis-understand my obvious claims to be God but I'm actually not. I'm just his son just like you're his son." That makes no sense for Jesus to clearly claim to be God because the Son of Man in that OT passages accepts worship. Something only God can accept. Did Jesus lie to the high priest? Because it is clear that he is claiming to be God there that's why the high priest got so angry and tore his cloths.

Also, if you read Isaiah 6 you will see that the prophet calls Jesus MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. Clearly saying that this Baby will be God.

I said
Jesus made it very clear, that He wasn't God when He said the Father is the ONLY true God.

John 17:3
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)


Jesus backed it up many times like this one. Jesus said He had the very same God and the very same Father that we do.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 06:44 AM
I said

To the Jew that didn't have the Holy Spirit. There are people today that don't have the Holy Spirit that think that Jesus is God. But who's opinion should we go by. The unlearned or the learned.



John 7:39

39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

(NKJ)


So Jesus willingly and knowingly mislead them knowing that they and billions of other people would interpret as him clearly claiming to be God? That would make Jesus the most seditious person in history.

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 06:51 AM
I said

Jesus made it very clear, that He wasn't God when He said the Father is the ONLY true God.



John 17:3

3"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

(NKJ)





Jesus backed it up many times like this one. Jesus said He had the very same God and the very same Father that we do.



John 20:17

17Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"

(NKJ)


You do realize that Jesus says this because Jesus is flesh right?

Jer 32:27 "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

Jesus is God. Jesus is flesh. God is his God both because Jesus is flesh and because Jesus is showing us a way to live. Therefore your argument of saying that since Jesus calls God his God that makes Jesus not God invalid because he is saying this because God is the God of all flesh and Jesus is in a flesh body.

Also, Jesus is God!
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

Caino
August 6th, 2015, 07:56 AM
You do realize that Jesus says this because Jesus is flesh right?

Jer 32:27 "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

Jesus is God. Jesus is flesh. God is his God both because Jesus is flesh and because Jesus is showing us a way to live. Therefore your argument of saying that since Jesus calls God his God that makes Jesus not God invalid because he is saying this because God is the God of all flesh and Jesus is in a flesh body.

Also, Jesus is God!
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

Considering that Jesus is, was and will always be a divine Son, then while incarnate this miraculous human/divine personality would then be expected to speak from a duel nature; at times as man subject to the will of the Father, at other times by divine right.

Jesus is God the Son who came down from glory to take on the flesh of man not only for our benefit but so that he might come closer to an understanding of what man experiences.

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 08:01 AM
So Jesus willingly and knowingly mislead them knowing that they and billions of other people would interpret as him clearly claiming to be God? That would make Jesus the most seditious person in history.

I said
Jesus never mislead them. Jesus said He was the Son of God, not God. Their reasoning and understanding was where the deception comes in.

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 08:07 AM
You do realize that Jesus says this because Jesus is flesh right?

Jer 32:27 "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?

Jesus is God. Jesus is flesh. God is his God both because Jesus is flesh and because Jesus is showing us a way to live. Therefore your argument of saying that since Jesus calls God his God that makes Jesus not God invalid because he is saying this because God is the God of all flesh and Jesus is in a flesh body.

Also, Jesus is God!
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

I said
You have a misunderstanding here. Jesus wasn't in the old testament. And if you will notice in the old testament LORD was all capital letters. Which is referring to the LORD God the Father.
In the new testament after Jesus proved Himself to God the Father. The Father gave Jesus the title of "Lord" not LORD.

You are perverting them verses.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NKJ)

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NKJ)

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 08:11 AM
Considering that Jesus is, was and will always be a divine Son, then while incarnate this miraculous human/divine personality would then be expected to speak from a duel nature; at times as man subject to the will of the Father, at other times by divine right.

Jesus is God the Son who came down from glory to take on the flesh of man not only for our benefit but so that he might come closer to an understanding of what man experiences.

I said
To many assume to much. When Everything that Jesus spoke could have been from the Father and in parables.

John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

Matt 13:34-35
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world."
(NKJ)

Caino
August 6th, 2015, 08:41 AM
I said
To many assume to much. When Everything that Jesus spoke could have been from the Father and in parables.

John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

Matt 13:34-35
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
35 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world."
(NKJ)

You may not get it but that doesn't mean others don't.

Danoh
August 6th, 2015, 08:46 AM
Trinity Is A Strong Delusion

So I might just as well show it to you. God said if you dont have a love of the truth He would put strong delusions in scripture that you would fall for. He did. Now there are verses that can be taken out of context to form a deceiving belief. The trinity has done this. Trinity isnt in the bible, deity isnt in the bible. I refuted all the evidence they could come up with in the ninties. So now they step outside of the scriptures to explain something that isnt in scripture the trinity. They explain the trinity with eggs, water, door nobs, human families. They break every rule that a believer must follow to find the truth. Dont think beyond what is written, and dont add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

xxx Once they get you hooked, they start telling you no one can truly understand the trinity, and no one will truly understand it until after we leave this world. That is not what scripture teaches. Scripture teaches us there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. The trinity plants all these doubts in your mind so you won't go looking for the truth.

Mark 4:22-23
22 "For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.
23 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
(NKJ)

xxx They want you to worship God through your imagination. And if you want to find the Holy Spirit you must get rid of your imagination. The only power we have against deception is the Word of God. The trinitarians dont want you in the Word.

2 Cor 10:4-5
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(KJV)

xxx Trinitarians are the blind leading the blind.

Luke 6:39
39 And He spoke a parable to them: "Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into the ditch?
(NKJ)

II Th 2:10-12
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(NKJ)


2 Pet 3:16
16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
(NKJ)

All "beliefs" are a "delusion."

The question is, is the particular delusion sound?

Case in point my statement All "beliefs" are a "delusion" is itself a delusion.

The issue is the question is - is the particular delusion sound?

Of course that goes hand in hand with the particular "delusion" as to what constitutes "sound."

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 09:16 AM
You may not get it but that doesn't mean others don't.

I said
Oh I get it. I used to be in the milk understanding also. Then I went through the meat and I came to the revelations of Jesus Christ. That is when I learned all about the deceptions of the devil.

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 09:17 AM
All "beliefs" are a "delusion."

The question is, is the particular delusion sound?

Case in point my statement All "beliefs" are a "delusion" is itself a delusion.

The issue is the question is - is the particular delusion sound?

Of course that goes hand in hand with the particular "delusion" as to what constitutes "sound."

I said
Your an intellectual idiot if you think that makes any sense. You must be a kid.

Caino
August 6th, 2015, 09:43 AM
I said
Oh I get it. I used to be in the milk understanding also. Then I went through the meat and I came to the revelations of Jesus Christ. That is when I learned all about the deceptions of the devil.

Not really, you just take yourself to seriously. I listen to what Jesus said and take the want-to-be prophets with a grain of salt.

Jesus is in heaven with all power and authority, he is present along with the Father in spirit right now, right here.

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 09:50 AM
Not really, you just take yourself to seriously. I listen to what Jesus said and take the want-to-be prophets with a grain of salt.

Jesus is in heaven with all power and authority, he is present along with the Father in spirit right now, right here.

I said
You sound like your still in the milk understanding.

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 10:23 AM
I said

Jesus never mislead them. Jesus said He was the Son of God, not God. Their reasoning and understanding was where the deception comes in.


So then Jesus was completely stupid and ignorant? Any semi to even non-intelligent Jew would have viewed what he said as as nothing more than calling himself God. First because he calls himself eternal. Second he clearly uses the name for God, I AM. This was so clear to the people they were going to stone him there. So if he didn't know they would react like that he was completely retarded. Or he did know how they would react because he knew they would take it as him calling himself God and said it anyway this misleading ultimately billions of people thus making him maniacal and malevolent. Or he actually meant what he said because he actually is God.

Ps. Jesus is God. Isaiah in Isaiah 6 says that he is MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. All pointing to Jesus being God.

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 11:13 AM
I said

You have a misunderstanding here. Jesus wasn't in the old testament. And if you will notice in the old testament LORD was all capital letters. Which is referring to the LORD God the Father.

In the new testament after Jesus proved Himself to God the Father. The Father gave Jesus the title of "Lord" not LORD.



You are perverting them verses.



John 1:1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

(NKJ)



John 1:14

14And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

(NKJ)



John 1:18

18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

(NKJ)


Actually Jesus was in the Old Testament it's called prophecy. Also, Jesus never had to prove himself to God. Jesus was accepted and loved because of who he is, God the son. When he was baptized God the father said for all to hear that Jesus is his beloved son and he is well pleased with him. At that time Jesus had done nothing. No miracles or anything. Jesus never proved himself to God, neither do we. We accept Jesus and know that he did great work in our behalf.

Go on, explain how I'm "perverting" those verses.

Danoh
August 6th, 2015, 11:21 AM
I said
Your an intellectual idiot if you think that makes any sense. You must be a kid.

Of course you are right... that is your delusion.

Its beyond you to see that, at this point, though.

Caino
August 6th, 2015, 12:35 PM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Colter/11846795_10207261425755622_3087744611268798809_n_z psljtpvguu.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Colter/media/11846795_10207261425755622_3087744611268798809_n_z psljtpvguu.jpg.html)

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 02:37 PM
So then Jesus was completely stupid and ignorant? Any semi to even non-intelligent Jew would have viewed what he said as as nothing more than calling himself God. First because he calls himself eternal. Second he clearly uses the name for God, I AM. This was so clear to the people they were going to stone him there. So if he didn't know they would react like that he was completely retarded. Or he did know how they would react because he knew they would take it as him calling himself God and said it anyway this misleading ultimately billions of people thus making him maniacal and malevolent. Or he actually meant what he said because he actually is God.

Ps. Jesus is God. Isaiah in Isaiah 6 says that he is MIGHTY GOD and EVERLASTING FATHER. All pointing to Jesus being God.


I said
You really have along ways to go.

Isa 9-6
I seen Billy Grahames son preach on this.
He gave a good understanding. Like it says the government will be upon His shoulders. That hasnt happened yet.
Upon His government and peace there will be no end. That hasnt happened yet.
And over His kingdom. He hasnt got a kingdom yet.
This is a prophesy of Jesus Christs second coming. Which hasnt happened yet.

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgment and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
(NKJ)

Dont forget about the old testament

2 Cor 3:13-15
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 02:38 PM
Actually Jesus was in the Old Testament it's called prophecy. Also, Jesus never had to prove himself to God. Jesus was accepted and loved because of who he is, God the son. When he was baptized God the father said for all to hear that Jesus is his beloved son and he is well pleased with him. At that time Jesus had done nothing. No miracles or anything. Jesus never proved himself to God, neither do we. We accept Jesus and know that he did great work in our behalf.

Go on, explain how I'm "perverting" those verses.

I said

Heb 5:8-10
8 though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered.
9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
10 called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 02:39 PM
Of course you are right... that is your delusion.

Its beyond you to see that, at this point, though.

I said
lol How old are you?

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 08:03 PM
I said

You really have along ways to go.



Isa 9-6

I seen Billy Grahames son preach on this.

He gave a good understanding. Like it says the government will be upon His shoulders. That hasnt happened yet.

Upon His government and peace there will be no end. That hasnt happened yet.

And over His kingdom. He hasnt got a kingdom yet.

This is a prophesy of Jesus Christs second coming. Which hasnt happened yet.



Isa 9:6-7

6For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

7Of the increase of His government and peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to order it and establish it with judgment and justice from that time forward, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

(NKJ)



Dont forget about the old testament



2 Cor 3:13-15

13unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

14But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

15But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

(NKJ)


I admit I have a lot to learn about Jesus since he's God I'll never stop learning. But you need to start hearing the Holy Spirit and stop fighting against him.

And what you said had nothing to do with Isaiah obviously believing and proclaiming that Jesus is God when he said that he is mighty God and everlasting father. So I'll simply ask it in a question. Did Isaiah lie to billions of people when he blatantly calls Jesus God by calling him mighty God and everlasting father?

Squeaky
August 6th, 2015, 08:24 PM
I admit I have a lot to learn about Jesus since he's God I'll never stop learning. But you need to start hearing the Holy Spirit and stop fighting against him.

And what you said had nothing to do with Isaiah obviously believing and proclaiming that Jesus is God when he said that he is mighty God and everlasting father. So I'll simply ask it in a question. Did Isaiah lie to billions of people when he blatantly calls Jesus God by calling him mighty God and everlasting father?

I said
Your under some sort of carnal delusion that you can understand the old testament. What you think you see is covered by the veil.
What I said still stands. Deal with it.

2 Cor 3:13-15
13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(NKJ)

jzeidler
August 6th, 2015, 08:47 PM
I said

Your under some sort of carnal delusion that you can understand the old testament. What you think you see is covered by the veil.

What I said still stands. Deal with it.



2 Cor 3:13-15

13unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

14But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

15But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

(NKJ)


You're very wrong. Verse 14 shows that your wrong. It says that Jesus has taken away the veil. I am in Christ, I have the Holy Spirit, the veil is taken away. Besides, Paul was talking about the Jews having a veil on them when they read the OT because they don't believe in Christ. I'm not a Jew and I believe in Christ. I am in Christ, no veil for me. Also you didn't answer my question. Did Isaiah lie to billions of people when he blatantly calls Jesus God?

Squeaky
August 7th, 2015, 03:04 AM
You're very wrong. Verse 14 shows that your wrong. It says that Jesus has taken away the veil. I am in Christ, I have the Holy Spirit, the veil is taken away. Besides, Paul was talking about the Jews having a veil on them when they read the OT because they don't believe in Christ. I'm not a Jew and I believe in Christ. I am in Christ, no veil for me. Also you didn't answer my question. Did Isaiah lie to billions of people when he blatantly calls Jesus God?

I said
lolol Your a child. Only children think they can turn something around with words like that.
Anyway I'm a 68 year old man. In Christ means in the new testament. But the veil is steal over the old testament.

oatmeal
August 7th, 2015, 04:37 AM
Yep.

1 John 5:7 Modern English Version (MEV)

7 There are three who testify in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

The ASV recognizes that the texts do not include your favorite phrase but was a much later addition.

I John 5:6-8 ASV

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.

7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.

8 For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.

oatmeal
August 7th, 2015, 04:40 AM
John 14:25-26 KJV

John 14:27 KJV -

and

John 14:28 KJV

CLEARLY shows Father, Son, Holy Ghost - the 3 are One = Trinity/Triune

also plainly Jesus says the Father is greater than He

Since the Father is greater than the son, they are not "co-equal".

"Co-equal" is an essential part of the definition of the trinity, thus the trinity as traditionally defined is wrong.

oatmeal
August 7th, 2015, 04:44 AM
Squeaky on TOL is a delusion.

Bright Raven,

That is the usual trin reply when scripture is staring you in the face.

Instead of replying with scripture, you sling mud.

John 10:30 the Father and Jesus Christ are one in purpose, see context.

But the Holy Spirit is not?

jzeidler
August 7th, 2015, 05:18 AM
I said

lolol Your a child. Only children think they can turn something around with words like that.

Anyway I'm a 68 year old man. In Christ means in the new testament. But the veil is steal over the old testament.


So you resort to name calling and false puffing up of self when you can't prove your point. I see.

Show me where in Christ is limited to only reading the New Testament or whatnot? And prove your point that no one can understand the Old Testament.

If no one can understand the OT then prophecy has no point since no one could understand it. And what would be the point of God giving the only inspired word to humans they had for thousands of years? Was God doing something pointless? If so then he is a pointless God. And a cruel one because if his inspired word gives knowledge of salvation yet he puts a veil in front of their eyes so that none can understand it then he is psychotic, maniacal, and evil because he causes everyone before the NT to go to hell since they have no knowledge of eternal life. And if no one could understand the OT then the apostles did a very bad thing when they used OT quotes in their writings of the NT.

aikido7
August 7th, 2015, 06:15 AM
The Doctrine of the Trinity is like any other man-made theology:

It is a helpful "catch all" or "shortcut" to making meaning out of some authentic, historical events.

In that respect, it is not factually correct. It is a faith statement, not a literal truth.

Squeaky
August 7th, 2015, 08:01 AM
So you resort to name calling and false puffing up of self when you can't prove your point. I see.

Show me where in Christ is limited to only reading the New Testament or whatnot? And prove your point that no one can understand the Old Testament.

If no one can understand the OT then prophecy has no point since no one could understand it. And what would be the point of God giving the only inspired word to humans they had for thousands of years? Was God doing something pointless? If so then he is a pointless God. And a cruel one because if his inspired word gives knowledge of salvation yet he puts a veil in front of their eyes so that none can understand it then he is psychotic, maniacal, and evil because he causes everyone before the NT to go to hell since they have no knowledge of eternal life. And if no one could understand the OT then the apostles did a very bad thing when they used OT quotes in their writings of the NT.

I said
What name calling? I have already proven my claim on the old testament with these verses.

2 Cor 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.
(NKJ)

And all your gross exaggeration is just childish.

Squeaky
August 7th, 2015, 08:06 AM
The Doctrine of the Trinity is like any other man-made theology:

It is a helpful "catch all" or "shortcut" to making meaning out of some authentic, historical events.

In that respect, it is not factually correct. It is a faith statement, not a literal truth.

I said
It appears they try to make Jesus into God. To remove the possibility of Him being an example that we should follow. If He is a God there is no way that we could join in His sufferings. But if He was a man tempted as we are. That causes fear that we cant do it. Its a trick of the devil.

Heb 4:13-16
we must give account.
14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
(NKJ)

Caino
August 7th, 2015, 08:19 AM
So you resort to name calling and false puffing up of self when you can't prove your point. I see.

Show me where in Christ is limited to only reading the New Testament or whatnot? And prove your point that no one can understand the Old Testament.

If no one can understand the OT then prophecy has no point since no one could understand it. And what would be the point of God giving the only inspired word to humans they had for thousands of years? Was God doing something pointless? If so then he is a pointless God. And a cruel one because if his inspired word gives knowledge of salvation yet he puts a veil in front of their eyes so that none can understand it then he is psychotic, maniacal, and evil because he causes everyone before the NT to go to hell since they have no knowledge of eternal life. And if no one could understand the OT then the apostles did a very bad thing when they used OT quotes in their writings of the NT.

Anti-divinity preachers have their pride invested in their positions, they aren't reasonable people. You can talk to Squeaky about his Squeakology for 10 years, they just don't do change.

jzeidler
August 7th, 2015, 08:21 AM
I said

What name calling? I have already proven my claim on the old testament with these verses.



2 Cor 3:14-15

14But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.

15But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart.

(NKJ)



And all your gross exaggeration is just childish.


You proved nothing. KEEP READING!!

2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is REMOVED.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 And we all, with UNVEILED face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

it is that simple. Keep reading so that you can get context and understand. Those who turn to Christ have no veil because Jesus removed it. Your point is dead.

jzeidler
August 7th, 2015, 08:23 AM
Anti-divinity preachers have their pride invested in their positions, they aren't reasonable people. You can talk to Squeaky about his Squeakology for 10 years, they just don't do change.


Ah understood. I mean, as I'm looking at what he is saying the Holy Spirit is bringing things to me and the Lord (not me) is destroying squeakys flimsy arguments yet he doesn't see. It's like he has a veil over his heart and eyes. I feel sorry for him.

Squeaky
August 7th, 2015, 08:27 AM
You proved nothing. KEEP READING!!

2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is REMOVED.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 And we all, with UNVEILED face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

it is that simple. Keep reading so that you can get context and understand. Those who turn to Christ have no veil because Jesus removed it. Your point is dead.

I said
Context, context, context. When one turns to the new testament the veil is taken away.

John 10:8-9
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 3:16-18
16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(NKJ)

jzeidler
August 7th, 2015, 08:35 AM
I said

Context, context, context. When one turns to the new testament the veil is taken away.



John 10:8-9

8"All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.

9"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

(NKJ)



2 Cor 3:16-18

16Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

17Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

(NKJ)


I'll kind of agree because in the NT we see JESUS. But context and verse says 2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

It's when they turn to Christ that the veil is taken away and can understand both old and new for in this whole context that is what is being talked about. The old and new covenants.

Squeaky
August 7th, 2015, 08:44 AM
I'll kind of agree because in the NT we see JESUS. But context and verse says 2Co 3:16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed.

It's when they turn to Christ that the veil is taken away and can understand both old and new for in this whole context that is what is being talked about. The old and new covenants.

I said
Well we will have to agree to disagree then. And risk falling from grace. Because if you keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasn't brought over to the new testament. You will fall from grace.


Gal 5:1-4

1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)


And anyone who trusts in the old testament does not have the right God or the right Jesus.

II Jn 1:8-11
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
(NKJ)

jzeidler
August 7th, 2015, 08:50 AM
I said

Well we will have to agree to disagree then. And risk falling from grace. Because if you keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasn't brought over to the new testament. You will fall from grace.





Gal 5:1-4



1Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

2Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.

3And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.

4You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

(NKJ)





And anyone who trusts in the old testament does not have the right God or the right Jesus.



II Jn 1:8-11

8Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.

9Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;

11for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

(NKJ)


I'm not keeping the old covenant. I think all of it was fulfilled by Jesus and none of it has any holds on us. I'm not falling from grace since I'm not putting myself under any performance based religion/law Gal 5:4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. Not sure where you got the idea I wanted to keep the old covenant. I don't want to keep the old covenant but because of Christ lifting the veil from our hearts and minds we can understand what is in the Old Testament as context for the New.

Squeaky
August 7th, 2015, 10:07 AM
Old Testament as context for the New.

I said
You have fallen for it.

jzeidler
August 7th, 2015, 10:40 AM
I said

You have fallen for it.


Alright I'm done. Obviously you don't want to listen to the word of God. I feel sorry for you.

oatmeal
August 7th, 2015, 10:47 AM
Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man. John 1:1-2, 14, Jn. 1:18 Phil. 2:5-8, Col. 2:9, Phil. 2:10, Is. 9:6, Mk. 1:2-3, Lk. 1:17, Ac. 2:21, Mt. 4:1-2, Mt. 8:23-24, Lk. 2:52, Lk. 24:39, Jn. 1:14, Heb. 2:17-18, Heb. 2:14.

So where is your list of verses that state that Jesus is "fully God and fully man"?

Why doesn't God, the author of scripture tell us that in scripture?

For that matter why doesn't God use invented words, trinity, triune, mother of God, God the Son, God-man, etc....?

Since God does not use those words to describe himself, who are you to use them?

You have a better vocabulary than the Creator?

Squeaky
August 7th, 2015, 11:32 AM
So where is your list of verses that state that Jesus is "fully God and fully man"?

Why doesn't God, the author of scripture tell us that in scripture?

For that matter why doesn't God use invented words, trinity, triune, mother of God, God the Son, God-man, etc....?

Since God does not use those words to describe himself, who are you to use them?

You have a better vocabulary than the Creator?

I said
lol Boy your laying it on heavy. I was trying to be gentle.

jzeidler
August 7th, 2015, 06:51 PM
So where is your list of verses that state that Jesus is "fully God and fully man"?



Why doesn't God, the author of scripture tell us that in scripture?



For that matter why doesn't God use invented words, trinity, triune, mother of God, God the Son, God-man, etc....?



Since God does not use those words to describe himself, who are you to use them?



You have a better vocabulary than the Creator?


Refer back to my previous posts on this thread. I have already made a compelling argument. You can choose to believe what Jesus claims about himself or not.

Squeaky
August 7th, 2015, 07:05 PM
Refer back to my previous posts on this thread. I have already made a compelling argument. You can choose to believe what Jesus claims about himself or not.

I said
No you didn't.. I have already refuted your list at the top of this thread.

jzeidler
August 7th, 2015, 07:20 PM
Refer to all of my posts. I will not have the same debate twice. I have no need to. Read and believe what you want.

Squeaky
August 7th, 2015, 07:47 PM
Refer to all of my posts. I will not have the same debate twice. I have no need to. Read and believe what you want.

I said
Its my thread I watch it very carefully.

Squeaky
August 8th, 2015, 04:15 PM
Can any Trinitarians on here define love?

aikido7
August 8th, 2015, 04:29 PM
The Trinity is certainly not a delusion to those who believe in it and use it to interpret the Bible.

Again, however, it is theology and because it is, should never be taken literally.

If Jesus is the Lamb of God, does that then mean that Mary had a little lamb?

Squeaky
August 8th, 2015, 04:35 PM
The Trinity is certainly not a delusion to those who believe in it and use it to interpret the Bible.

Again, however, it is theology and because it is, should never be taken literally.

If Jesus is the Lamb of God, does that then mean that Mary had a little lamb?

I said
lolol I don't know if your mocking the trinity or Jesus?

aikido7
August 8th, 2015, 04:52 PM
I said
lolol I don't know if your mocking the trinity or Jesus?I suppose I am mocking the fact that Muslims and Christians make a fundamental mistake when they take the metaphoric and sacred language of their religions literally.

oatmeal
August 8th, 2015, 05:01 PM
Refer back to my previous posts on this thread. I have already made a compelling argument. You can choose to believe what Jesus claims about himself or not.

So my question remains unanswered.

Where does scripture speak of Jesus being "fully God and fully man"?

Since scripture does not state that Jesus is "fully God and fully man" I find no reason to believe that, "fully God and fully man" is a man made notion, not a God authored scripture.

Is God "fully God and fully man"?

Where does it state that God is "fully God and fully man"?

God is spirit. John 4:24

No man has seen God at any time. John 1:18, yet men have seen Jesus Christ, even unbelievers saw Jesus Christ.

If you do not wish to believe John 1:18, that is your choice.

No man has seen God at any time.

What does "any time" mean? It means "any time"

No man has ever seen God, ever.

Do you know how to believe?

Do you think you can believe John 1:18?

Squeaky
August 8th, 2015, 05:34 PM
I suppose I am mocking the fact that Muslims and Christians make a fundamental mistake when they take the metaphoric and sacred language of their religions literally.

I said
lol That isn't no mistake. I take it literally. That is the only way to communicate with the Holy Spirit. Because He only quotes verses.

Squeaky
August 8th, 2015, 05:41 PM
So my question remains unanswered.

Where does scripture speak of Jesus being "fully God and fully man"?

Since scripture does not state that Jesus is "fully God and fully man" I find no reason to believe that, "fully God and fully man" is a man made notion, not a God authored scripture.

Is God "fully God and fully man"?

Where does it state that God is "fully God and fully man"?

God is spirit. John 4:24

No man has seen God at any time. John 1:18, yet men have seen Jesus Christ, even unbelievers saw Jesus Christ.

If you do not wish to believe John 1:18, that is your choice.

No man has seen God at any time.

What does "any time" mean? It means "any time"

No man has ever seen God, ever.

Do you know how to believe?

Do you think you can believe John 1:18?

I said
Let me try this on you. I think I know where they come up with that fully God and fully man. Because God was in Jesus for a while then God left Jesus. They can only assume that while God was in Jesus that it was Jesus all the time. The problem is that cant relate to spirits being in people and out of people. I know because I had my share to get rid of . I think some of them go brain dead when they read these verses.

2 Cor 5:19
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
(NKJ)

John 14:10
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
(NKJ)

Mark 15:34
34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
(NKJ)

1 Cor 12:6
6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
(NKJ)

Phil 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
(NKJ)

Caino
August 8th, 2015, 05:53 PM
So my question remains unanswered.

Where does scripture speak of Jesus being "fully God and fully man"?

Since scripture does not state that Jesus is "fully God and fully man" I find no reason to believe that, "fully God and fully man" is a man made notion, not a God authored scripture.

Is God "fully God and fully man"?

Where does it state that God is "fully God and fully man"?

God is spirit. John 4:24

No man has seen God at any time. John 1:18, yet men have seen Jesus Christ, even unbelievers saw Jesus Christ.

If you do not wish to believe John 1:18, that is your choice.

No man has seen God at any time.

What does "any time" mean? It means "any time"

No man has ever seen God, ever.

Do you know how to believe?

Do you think you can believe John 1:18?

You have permission to have thoughts beyond " the scripture" that is just the thoughts of holy men anyway.

aikido7
August 8th, 2015, 05:59 PM
I said
lol That isn't no mistake. I take it literally. That is the only way to communicate with the Holy Spirit. Because He only quotes verses.A literal view of the profoundly symbolic writings of the gospel authors was basically "locked in" after the time of the Enlightenment.

Rationality and logic and literalism trump myth and metaphor. Both fundamentalist Muslims and Christians adhere to these "rules."


My point has always been that is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically. They told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.

And that means both traditionalists and atheists.

aikido7
August 8th, 2015, 06:00 PM
I said
lol That isn't no mistake. I take it literally. That is the only way to communicate with the Holy Spirit. Because He only quotes verses.How do you handle the plain and obvious discrepancies found in the Bible? Do you somehow use logic to "force" the contradictions into a seamless whole?

Squeaky
August 8th, 2015, 07:40 PM
You have permission to have thoughts beyond " the scripture" that is just the thoughts of holy men anyway.

I said
That is blasphemy. No your not. Not if you want to learn the truth about God. The rules of believing state. Not to even think beyond what is written. And don't add one word to the verses, or take one word away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 8th, 2015, 07:42 PM
How do you handle the plain and obvious discrepancies found in the Bible? Do you somehow use logic to "force" the contradictions into a seamless whole?

I said
Well I know there are stumbling stones. And that is there purpose. A true believer will put them on the back burner until a later date.

Bright Raven
August 8th, 2015, 07:58 PM
The belief in non-trinitarian doctrine is heretical.

Squeaky
August 8th, 2015, 08:05 PM
The belief in non-trinitarian doctrine is heretical.

I said
Where does it say that in scripture??? The belief in the trinity is heretical. I have proven that, over and over.

Bright Raven
August 8th, 2015, 08:11 PM
I said
Where does it say that in scripture??? The belief in the trinity is heretical. I have proven that, over and over.

Well Squeaky, here's the deal. This is a trinitarian website. Your beliefs are heretical here. If I remember correctly even Knight has asked you to stop opening non-trinitarian threads. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Still your doctrine is not acceptable.

John 1:18New International Version (NIV)

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Squeaky
August 8th, 2015, 08:28 PM
Well Squeaky, here's the deal. This is a trinitarian website. Your beliefs are heretical here. If I remember correctly even Knight has asked you to stop opening non-trinitarian threads. If I'm wrong, I apologize. Still your doctrine is not acceptable.

John 1:18New International Version (NIV)

18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

I said
lolo I have never seen that anywhere in this website. Where does it say this is a Trinitarian website?
Three or four years ago they were talking about doing away with the NIV. I guess your just stuck in an old copy. Here is the way the bible says it.

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)


John 1:18
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(KJV)


John 1:18
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (him).
(ASV)

Bright Raven
August 8th, 2015, 08:58 PM
I said
lolo I have never seen that anywhere in this website. Where does it say this is a Trinitarian website?
Three or four years ago they were talking about doing away with the NIV. I guess your just stuck in an old copy. Here is the way the bible says it.

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
(NKJ)


John 1:18
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(KJV)


John 1:18
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (him).
(ASV)

You were told by Knight that this is a Trin website weren't you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

aikido7
August 8th, 2015, 10:56 PM
I said
Well I know there are stumbling stones. And that is there purpose. A true believer will put them on the back burner until a later date.Well then! You and I both appear to have a divine purpose while we simmer on God's Westinghouse Oven.

keypurr
August 8th, 2015, 11:18 PM
The son of man is the spirit Christ that was IN Jesus.

He is the one that came down from heaven and he is a form of God, but not God.

Joh_6:62 "What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before?

Joh_8:28 So Jesus said, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

The son of man (Spirit Christ) is the only one who has seen God. Jesus has not.

God's Truth
August 8th, 2015, 11:24 PM
Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh.

There is only ONE SPIRIT.

Jesus' Spirit is the Spirit of God.

keypurr
August 8th, 2015, 11:26 PM
Everyone should be able to defend their faith.

Trin and non Trin alike

keypurr
August 8th, 2015, 11:29 PM
Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh.

There is only ONE SPIRIT.

Jesus' Spirit is the Spirit of God.

GT, no one is debating your love for God and his son, but you do not know him.

Jesus is not the Father

God's Truth
August 8th, 2015, 11:38 PM
GT, no one is debating your love for God and his son, but you do not know him.
Your words are evil. How do you love someone you do not know?




Jesus is not the Father

John 14:18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Did you read that scripture? Who but a Father will not leave children as orphans?

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 02:40 AM
You were told by Knight that this is a Trin website weren't you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I said
Your wrong, I was not told this is a trin website.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 02:43 AM
Well then! You and I both appear to have a divine purpose while we simmer on God's Westinghouse Oven.

I said
I'm hear to demonstrate the Holy Spirit and to see if your faith is in your human wisdom or in the Holy Spirit.

1 Cor 2:4-5
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 02:47 AM
Jesus is God the Father come in the flesh.

There is only ONE SPIRIT.

Jesus' Spirit is the Spirit of God.

I said
Jesus is not God. God is not Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. They are all three different. Three different Spirits in three different places at the same time.

Matt 3:16-17
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(NKJ)

Totton Linnet
August 9th, 2015, 03:41 AM
I said
Jesus is not God. God is not Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. They are all three different. Three different Spirits in three different places at the same time.

Matt 3:16-17
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(NKJ)

3 different= trinity

The Son must be whatever the Father is, if the Son is not God then neither is the Father God.

To deny the Father and the Son is the coming Antichrist....be warned peeps....it is those who deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ who are under the coming strong delusion.

They appeal to human understanding.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 06:11 AM
3 different= trinity

The Son must be whatever the Father is, if the Son is not God then neither is the Father God.

To deny the Father and the Son is the coming Antichrist....be warned peeps....it is those who deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ who are under the coming strong delusion.

They appeal to human understanding.

I said
That is exactly what you just done. You used your human understanding. Your denying that it was only Jesus who came in the flesh. It was not God.

II Jn 1:7
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
(NKJ)

oatmeal
August 9th, 2015, 06:32 AM
3 different= trinity

The Son must be whatever the Father is, if the Son is not God then neither is the Father God.

To deny the Father and the Son is the coming Antichrist....be warned peeps....it is those who deny the Trinity, the deity of Christ who are under the coming strong delusion.

They appeal to human understanding.

As usual, you have absolutely no scripture provided to substantiate your claims.

For all a reader knows you read your theology in some supermarket tabloid.

Do you really expect that anyone is going to fall for you empty opinions?

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 06:50 AM
I said
That is blasphemy. No your not. Not if you want to learn the truth about God. The rules of believing state. Not to even think beyond what is written. And don't add one word to the verses, or take one word away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)






Genesis
2.Exodus
3.Leviticus
4.Numbers
5.Deuteronomy


Deuteronomy 4:2






"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.





Books added AFTER Deuteronomy 4:2

7.Judges
8.Ruth
9.1 Samuel
10.2 Samuel
11.1 Kings
12.2 Kings
13.1 Chronicles
14.2 Chronicles
15.Ezra
16.Nehemiah
17.Esther
18.Job
19.Psalms
20.Proverbs
21.Ecclesiastes
22.Song of Solomon
23.Isaiah
24.Jeremiah
25.Lamentations
26.Ezekiel
27. Daniel
28.Hosea
29. Joel
30. Amos
31. Obadiah
32. Jonah
33. Micah
34. Nahum
35. Habakkuk
36. Zephaniah
37. Haggai
38. Zechariah
39. Malachi



The New Testament

1. Matthew
2. Mark
3. Luke
4. John
5. Acts (of the Apostles)
6. Romans
7. 1 Corinthians
8. 2 Corinthians
9. Galatians
10. Ephesians
11. Philippians
12. Colossians
13. 1 Thessalonians
14. 2 Thessalonians
15. 1 Timothy
16. 2 Timothy
17. Titus
18. Philemon
19. Hebrews
20. James
21. 1 Peter
22. 2 Peter
23. 1 John
24. 2 John
25. 3 John
26. Jude
27. Revelation

oatmeal
August 9th, 2015, 06:56 AM
Genesis
2.Exodus
3.Leviticus
4.Numbers
5.Deuteronomy


Deuteronomy 4:2






"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.





Books added AFTER Deuteronomy 4:2

7.Judges
8.Ruth
9.1 Samuel
10.2 Samuel
11.1 Kings
12.2 Kings
13.1 Chronicles
14.2 Chronicles
15.Ezra
16.Nehemiah
17.Esther
18.Job
19.Psalms
20.Proverbs
21.Ecclesiastes
22.Song of Solomon
23.Isaiah
24.Jeremiah
25.Lamentations
26.Ezekiel
27. Daniel
28.Hosea
29. Joel
30. Amos
31. Obadiah
32. Jonah
33. Micah
34. Nahum
35. Habakkuk
36. Zephaniah
37. Haggai
38. Zechariah
39. Malachi



The New Testament

1. Matthew
2. Mark
3. Luke
4. John
5. Acts (of the Apostles)
6. Romans
7. 1 Corinthians
8. 2 Corinthians
9. Galatians
10. Ephesians
11. Philippians
12. Colossians
13. 1 Thessalonians
14. 2 Thessalonians
15. 1 Timothy
16. 2 Timothy
17. Titus
18. Philemon
19. Hebrews
20. James
21. 1 Peter
22. 2 Peter
23. 1 John
24. 2 John
25. 3 John
26. Jude
27. Revelation


Who shall not add? You!

That does not include God.

God can add all he wants to His written word.

Are you going to tell Him He is wrong?

You need to learn from my thread on "II Timothy 2:15 How?"

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 07:07 AM
GT, no one is debating your love for God and his son, but you do not know him.

Jesus is not the Father

This is true, Jesus is not the Father absolute, he is a divine Son of the Father, a chip off the ole block.

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 07:18 AM
Who shall not add? You!

That does not include God.

God can add all he wants to His written word.

Are you going to tell Him He is wrong?

You need to learn from my thread on "II Timothy 2:15 How?"

The foundation of your argument is the false assumption that God wrote the scripture in the first place.

Holy men (with presumed authority) produce writings about very real events which become sacred going forward. The same educated priest class adds to or edits the previous writings based on changing events and the evolution of belief.

The ruling priestly elite derive their authority based on their own proclamations of the authority of their own writing, manipulating the superstitious fears of the common man. Some of these priests are sincere, others know the truth such as those who conspired to kill Jesus. They more or less knew the truth about the man made nature of the writings of holy men.

Oatmeal you derive the authority of your arguments from the scripture rather than thinking for yourself.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 07:21 AM
I said
Interesting.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 07:29 AM
The foundation of your argument is the false assumption that God wrote the scripture in the first place.

Holy men (with presumed authority) produce writings about very real events which become sacred going forward. The same educated priest class adds to or edits the previous writings based on changing events and the evolution of belief.

The ruling priestly elite derive their authority based on their own proclamations of the authority of their own writing, manipulating the superstitious fears of the common man. Some of these priests are sincere, others know the truth such as those who conspired to kill Jesus. They more or less knew the truth about the man made nature of the writings of holy men.

Oatmeal you derive the authority of your arguments from the scripture rather than thinking for yourself.

I said
Oatmeal is following the rules of believing. The same as I do.
It takes a special blessing to be able to do this. Not to even think beyond what is written. And not to add one word to the verses or take one word away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

And if you cant believe that God wrote the bible, you cant consentrate fully.

oatmeal
August 9th, 2015, 07:38 AM
The foundation of your argument is the false assumption that God wrote the scripture in the first place.

Holy men (with presumed authority) produce writings about very real events which become sacred going forward. The same educated priest class adds to or edits the previous writings based on changing events and the evolution of belief.

The ruling priestly elite derive their authority based on their own proclamations of the authority of their own writing, manipulating the superstitious fears of the common man. Some of these priests are sincere, others know the truth such as those who conspired to kill Jesus. They more or less knew the truth about the man made nature of the writings of holy men.

Oatmeal you derive the authority of your arguments from the scripture rather than thinking for yourself.


The foundation of your argument is the false assumption that God wrote the scripture in the first place.

I did not say God wrote it. You do need to check out my thread on II Timothy 2:15.

God authored scripture, it is God's words that holy men of God wrote down as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (God) II Peter 1:21


Holy men (with presumed authority) produce writings about very real events which become sacred going forward. The same educated priest class adds to or edits the previous writings based on changing events and the evolution of belief.

The scriptures are holy because God, who is holy, authored them


The ruling priestly elite derive their authority based on their own proclamations of the authority of their own writing, manipulating the superstitious fears of the common man. Some of these priests are sincere, others know the truth such as those who conspired to kill Jesus. They more or less knew the truth about the man made nature of the writings of holy men.

Moses was not a priest, however, his brother Aaron became a priest. Moses was a Levite.

Moses received his authority and power from God, just like Jesus Christ did.

Moses foretold of a prophet like unto Moses, who God would raise up from among his brethren. Jesus was that prophet.

Acts 3:22 Peter believed that Jesus was that prophet and that Moses was a prophet who had the God given authority to proclaim God's words prophetically.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19

The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus did not speak of his own, but rather that which the Lord God had him to speak, just like Moses.

A prophet's ministry, his authority, his power comes from God only, not himself.


Oatmeal you derive the authority of your arguments from the scripture rather than thinking for yourself.

Thank you! That is probably the highest compliment I could ever receive.

God's ways are better than my ways, God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts, I choose God's thoughts, not mine.

Again, I thank you.

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 07:41 AM
I said
Oatmeal is following the rules of believing. The same as I do.
It takes a special blessing to be able to do this. Not to even think beyond what is written. And not to add one word to the verses or take one word away from the verses.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

And if you cant believe that God wrote the bible, you cant consentrate fully.

Then Squeaky, there is nothing about your argument that would have allowed you to believe in Jesus of Nazareth had you been a Jew while Jesus was on the earth using your same closed minded thinking because the Jews have sound, scripture based reasons as to why they reject Jesus then and now.

My faith is in God, I take writings about God with the understanding that humans aren't perfect.

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 08:06 AM
I did not say God wrote it. You do need to check out my thread on II Timothy 2:15.

God authored scripture, it is God's words that holy men of God wrote down as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (God) II Peter 1:21



The scriptures are holy because God, who is holy, authored them



Moses was not a priest, however, his brother Aaron became a priest. Moses was a Levite.

Moses received his authority and power from God, just like Jesus Christ did.

Moses foretold of a prophet like unto Moses, who God would raise up from among his brethren. Jesus was that prophet.

Acts 3:22 Peter believed that Jesus was that prophet and that Moses was a prophet who had the God given authority to proclaim God's words prophetically.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19

The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus did not speak of his own, but rather that which the Lord God had him to speak, just like Moses.

A prophet's ministry, his authority, his power comes from God only, not himself.



Thank you! That is probably the highest compliment I could ever receive.

God's ways are better than my ways, God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts, I choose God's thoughts, not mine.

Again, I thank you.

Man is so tempted to apply undue reverence to church writings, it is so tempting to make a golden calf out of scripture thus stunting any possible revelation of any new truth. That was the predicament that the proud Pharisees found themselves in when confounded with the very purpose of their long faith struggle, the Son of God standing before them.

I understand your position and oddly sympathize with it. I could point out the evolution of thought in the OT writings such as Samuel's belief that God moved David to number Israel only to have the Chronicler change that to Satan moving David and God not being happy about it.....but you are in the same position with me that the Pharisee's were with Jesus, fear of the "slippery slope" of acknowledging human imperfection of holy writings.

Myself, my faith in God is not disturbed by my belief that there are many factual and historic errors in the Bible. To me the Bible is what we should expect it to be.

oatmeal
August 9th, 2015, 08:31 AM
Man is so tempted to apply undue reverence to church writings, it is so tempting to make a golden calf out of scripture thus stunting any possible revelation of any new truth. That was the predicament that the proud Pharisees found themselves in when confounded with the very purpose of their long faith struggle, the Son of God standing before them.

I understand your position and oddly sympathize with it. I could point out the evolution of thought in the OT writings such as Samuel's belief that God moved David to number Israel only to have the Chronicler change that to Satan moving David and God not being happy about it.....but you are in the same position with me that the Pharisee's were with Jesus, fear of the "slippery slope" of acknowledging human imperfection of holy writings.

Myself, my faith in God is not disturbed by my belief that there are many factual and historic errors in the Bible. To me the Bible is what we should expect it to be.

God is perfect, therefore all his works are perfect.

His works include His words, the scripture.

God is perfect, therefore His word is perfect, every word in His word is perfect.

It is flawless and inherently perfectly accurate.

What is inaccurate is man's opinions.

Proverbs 3:5-6

Grosnick Marowbe
August 9th, 2015, 08:38 AM
Man is so tempted to apply undue reverence to church writings, it is so tempting to make a golden calf out of scripture thus stunting any possible revelation of any new truth. That was the predicament that the proud Pharisees found themselves in when confounded with the very purpose of their long faith struggle, the Son of God standing before them.

I understand your position and oddly sympathize with it. I could point out the evolution of thought in the OT writings such as Samuel's belief that God moved David to number Israel only to have the Chronicler change that to Satan moving David and God not being happy about it.....but you are in the same position with me that the Pharisee's were with Jesus, fear of the "slippery slope" of acknowledging human imperfection of holy writings.

Myself, my faith in God is not disturbed by my belief that there are many factual and historic errors in the Bible. To me the Bible is what we should expect it to be.

Your faith is in the Urantia Book not the Bible. You're a UFO Cultist.

Zeke
August 9th, 2015, 08:39 AM
I did not say God wrote it. You do need to check out my thread on II Timothy 2:15.

God authored scripture, it is God's words that holy men of God wrote down as they were moved by the Holy Spirit (God) II Peter 1:21



The scriptures are holy because God, who is holy, authored them



Moses was not a priest, however, his brother Aaron became a priest. Moses was a Levite.

Moses received his authority and power from God, just like Jesus Christ did.

Moses foretold of a prophet like unto Moses, who God would raise up from among his brethren. Jesus was that prophet.

Acts 3:22 Peter believed that Jesus was that prophet and that Moses was a prophet who had the God given authority to proclaim God's words prophetically.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19

The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

16 According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.

17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus did not speak of his own, but rather that which the Lord God had him to speak, just like Moses.

A prophet's ministry, his authority, his power comes from God only, not himself.



Thank you! That is probably the highest compliment I could ever receive.

God's ways are better than my ways, God's thoughts are higher than my thoughts, I choose God's thoughts, not mine.

Again, I thank you.

The theme of all scripture is an outward story dramatized in two individuals/states of mind Galatians 4:24-26 that show the transition from adolescents to graduation from the body of flesh, that is a state of mind Matt 11:11.

This conflict is shown in Romans seven by these two states of mind in conflict, same with every story which is all about Luke 17:20-21, and that teaching was the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow etc.........

There is only Jew and Gentile, Male and Female in the literal dogmas of theologically which separate them 2Cor 3:6, the more excellent way has neither because all things are one in the Christ mind/state.

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 08:55 AM
God is perfect, therefore all his works are perfect.

His works include His words, the scripture.

God is perfect, therefore His word is perfect, every word in His word is perfect.

It is flawless and inherently perfectly accurate.

What is inaccurate is man's opinions.

Proverbs 3:5-6

I agree Gods Word is perfect, but his Word is the Living Word, the spirit of which may be translated in the written Word.

I don't trust the dubious historical accounts of those who killed Jesus after elevating themselves above all other nations whom they considered to be "Gentile dogs", who still wait in vain for a Jewish Messiah fashioned in their own image.

The Zionist are failed prophets.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 08:57 AM
Then Squeaky, there is nothing about your argument that would have allowed you to believe in Jesus of Nazareth had you been a Jew while Jesus was on the earth using your same closed minded thinking because the Jews have sound, scripture based reasons as to why they reject Jesus then and now.

My faith is in God, I take writings about God with the understanding that humans aren't perfect.

I said
There is your problem. You compare us with the beginners who didn't have the Holy Spirit. You intellectuals got all these rules that are not in scripture. And that brings up logic that isn't according to scripture.


John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 09:02 AM
Your faith is in the Urantia Book not the Bible. You're a UFO Cultist.

Well it is true that the UB is much more up to date and factually accurate, but even that explains that revelation is always relative to the age and conceptual ability of people understand. After Jesus left Paul brought his own religious opinions into the mix which has left people confused.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 09:02 AM
God is perfect, therefore all his works are perfect.

His works include His words, the scripture.

God is perfect, therefore His word is perfect, every word in His word is perfect.

It is flawless and inherently perfectly accurate.

What is inaccurate is man's opinions.

Proverbs 3:5-6

I said
Your right. There is this weakness that flows through the carnal mind, they cant over come. Its called interpretation. They must interpret which is also perversion of the Word. They get hung up on reason and logic--carnal. The stories are in the milk understanding. The interpretations are in the milk understanding. The theologies are in the milk understanding. In the meat understanding it is all the Word of God from God.

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 09:04 AM
I said
There is your problem. You compare us with the beginners who didn't have the Holy Spirit. You intellectuals got all these rules that are not in scripture. And that brings up logic that isn't according to scripture.


John 7:39
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)

You have an inferiority complex and appear to be uneducated. Your way of thinking keeps you in fanatical ignorance.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 09:09 AM
Well it is true that the UB is much more up to date and factually accurate, but even that explains that revelation is always relative to the age and conceptual ability of people understand. After Jesus left Paul brought his own religious opinions into the mix which has left people confused.

I said
You have some very poor logic. Everything Jesus spoke He spoke in parables. Everything the apostles spoke was the milk understanding of what Jesus spoke. And they all said to find the Holy Spirit and He will teach you the meat understanding.

Matt 13:34
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the multitude in parables; and without a parable He did not speak to them,
(NKJ)

1 Cor 3:2-3
2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;
3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
(NKJ)

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 5:5
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
(NKJ)

Its not a bunch of stories. Its the hidden language of the Spirit. Read my thread on the Holy Spirit milk and meat. It has the hidden language of the Spirit on there also.

God's Truth
August 9th, 2015, 10:28 AM
I said
Jesus is not God. God is not Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. They are all three different. Three different Spirits in three different places at the same time.

Matt 3:16-17
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(NKJ)

The three are one and the same.

If there are three different and separate persons, as you say, then God is not One.

Bright Raven
August 9th, 2015, 10:46 AM
I said
Your wrong, I was not told this is a trin website.

OK then, Try reading the TOL Statement of Faith. That ought to give you a hint on where they are coming from.

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 11:36 AM
Suppose one stood in the middle of Jesrusalem in 1 BC and looked up into heaven conceptualizing the One God and you asked them " How many divine persons are in heaven"? They would say 1 of coarse.

Suppose then that after Jesus ascended into heaven you asked Thomas how many divine persons are up in heaven??

The answer is at least 2. Nowhere in Old Testiment Judaism will you find the Father with his Son at his right hand, for the simple reason that this fact had not been revealed in Judaism.

Oh my gosh is it hard to teach religious people anything new!!!

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 11:57 AM
The three are one and the same.

If there are three different and separate persons, as you say, then God is not One.

I said
They are three different. And only one of them is God. That would be the Father. Just as Jesus and Paul told us.


Luke 17:1-3
1 Then He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!
2 "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 11:58 AM
OK then, Try reading the TOL Statement of Faith. That ought to give you a hint on where they are coming from.

I said
I have no choice, I am a born again Christian led by the Holy Spirit.

God's Truth
August 9th, 2015, 11:59 AM
I said
They are three different. And only one of them is God. That would be the Father. Just as Jesus and Paul told us.


Luke 17:1-3
1 Then He said to the disciples, "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!
2 "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 "Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

They are not different. They are the same.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 12:02 PM
Suppose one stood in the middle of Jesrusalem in 1 BC and looked up into heaven conceptualizing the One God and you asked them " How many divine persons are in heaven"? They would say 1 of coarse.

Suppose then that after Jesus ascended into heaven you asked Thomas how many divine persons are up in heaven??

The answer is at least 2. Nowhere in Old Testiment Judaism will you find the Father with his Son at his right hand, for the simple reason that this fact had not been revealed in Judaism.

Oh my gosh is it hard to teach religious people anything new!!!


I said
The devil deceives with the maybe's, and supposes, and the whole imagination. A born again Christian has gotten rid of the imagination. So I cant follow any supposes.



2 Cor 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(KJV)

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 12:04 PM
They are not different. They are the same.

I said
Three different Spirits in three different places, all at the same time.

Matt 3:16-17
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
(NKJ)

Totton Linnet
August 9th, 2015, 12:04 PM
I said
That is exactly what you just done. You used your human understanding. Your denying that it was only Jesus who came in the flesh. It was not God.

II Jn 1:7
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
(NKJ)

Denying the Father and the Son is antichrist....There is only one Saviour God.

How can it be human intellect? it goes against human intellect. Human intellect denies that God is three and yet one.


...that comes by revelation.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 12:11 PM
Denying the Father and the Son is antichrist....There is only one Saviour God.

How can it be human intellect? it goes against human intellect. Human intellect denies that God is three and yet one.


...that comes by revelation.

I said
No that didn't come by revelations. A revelation has total verses. I know I have received over 2000 of them. You got that from the devil.
So unless you can find a verse anywhere in the bible that says Jesus is God your wrong.

God's Truth
August 9th, 2015, 12:14 PM
I said
Three different Spirits in three different places, all at the same time.



There are NOT THREE DIFFERENT SPIRITS!.

There is only ONE SPIRIT!!!

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

Ephesians 2:18
For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

Totton Linnet
August 9th, 2015, 12:16 PM
I said
No that didn't come by revelations. A revelation has total verses. I know I have received over 2000 of them. You got that from the devil.
So unless you can find a verse anywhere in the bible that says Jesus is God your wrong.

Christ has built His church upon that revelation "Thou art the Christ the Son of the Living God" if you do not believe He is God's Son you are outside His church.

What the Father is the Son is also.

Caino
August 9th, 2015, 12:28 PM
I said
The devil deceives with the maybe's, and supposes, and the whole imagination. A born again Christian has gotten rid of the imagination. So I cant follow any supposes.



2 Cor 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
(KJV)


Who needs a devil when you aren't man enough to be honest?

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 12:29 PM
Christ has built His church upon that revelation "Thou art the Christ the Son of the Living God" if you do not believe He is God's Son you are outside His church.

What the Father is the Son is also.

I said
Jesus is the Son of God. Not God. It was Jesus who came in the flesh not God. If you cant confess that it was Jesus who came in the flesh and not God. You are the anti Christ.

I Jn 4:3
3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
(NKJ)

II Jn 1:7
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
(NKJ)

Totton Linnet
August 9th, 2015, 12:30 PM
I said
No that didn't come by revelations. A revelation has total verses. I know I have received over 2000 of them. You got that from the devil.
So unless you can find a verse anywhere in the bible that says Jesus is God your wrong.

....you are mistaking neg reps for revelations

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 12:33 PM
....you are mistaking neg reps for revelations

I said
All my threads are revelations from Jesus Christ.

jzeidler
August 9th, 2015, 01:36 PM
A God that can be understood is no God at all.

Ben Masada
August 9th, 2015, 01:47 PM
Most definitely YES and here is the reason why:

The Absolute Unity of God

Isaiah says that, absolutely, God cannot be compared with anyone or anything, as we read Isaiah 46:5. "To whom will ye liken Me, and make Me equal to , or compare Me with, that we may be alike?"

Therefore, more than one God would have been unable to produce the world; one would have impeded the work of the other, unless this could be avoided by a suitable division of labor.

More than one Divine Being would have one element in common, and would differ in another; each would thus consist of two elements, and would not be God.

More than one God are moved to action by will; the will, without a substratum, could not act simultaneously in more than one being.

Therefore, the existence of one God is proved; the existence of more than one God cannot be proved. One could suggest that it would be possible; but since as possibility is inapplicable to God, there does not exist more than one God. So, the possibility of ascertaining the existence of God is here confounded with potentiality of existence.

Again, if one God suffices, a second or third God would be superfluous; if one God is not sufficient, he is not perfect, and cannot be a deity.

Now, besides being God absolutely One, He is incorporeal. If God were corporeal, He would consist of atoms, and would not be one; or he would be comparable to other beings; but a comparison implies the existence of similar and of dissimilar elements, and God would thus not be One. A corporeal God would be finite, and an external power would be required to define those limits.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 01:48 PM
A God that can be understood is no God at all.

I said
ROFLOL Did you read that in a book or come up with it all on your own. My God says we must understand Him. Or we don't get to heaven.

Mark 4:22-23
22 "For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.
23 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
(NKJ)

Heb 4:12-13
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
(NKJ)

jzeidler
August 9th, 2015, 02:10 PM
I said

ROFLOL Did you read that in a book or come up with it all on your own. My God says we must understand Him. Or we don't get to heaven.



Mark 4:22-23

22"For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.

23"If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."

(NKJ)



Heb 4:12-13

12For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

(NKJ)


How can your mind fully understand a being who created your mind? Since he created your mind he is above and can not be concealed in your mind.

Also, be mature. No one needs this whole ROFLOL.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 02:18 PM
How can your mind fully understand a being who created your mind? Since he created your mind he is above and can not be concealed in your mind.

Also, be mature. No one needs this whole ROFLOL.

I said
lol I just cant believe when I show you what the Word says that you turn right around and blaspheme it.


Heb 4:12-13

12For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

(NKJ)

aikido7
August 9th, 2015, 02:21 PM
This is true, Jesus is not the Father absolute, he is a divine Son of the Father, a chip off the ole block.There are differing and often contradictory traditions in the text. There are some that see Jesus as God before time began (as in the theology of the Gospel of John) and there are other traditions that claim a different view.

It would be helpful if Christians could be biblically literate and recognize and take seriously these traditions. After all, they are all part of our faith's history.

aikido7
August 9th, 2015, 02:25 PM
I said
I'm hear to demonstrate the Holy Spirit and to see if your faith is in your human wisdom or in the Holy Spirit....Just don't make any claims that you have peered into my own soul, read my mind or found my intentions.

In our rush to confront and understand others' ideas, thoughts and beliefs, we rush to an arrogant judgment at times. The only way I can notice this in others is because I have too often done the same thing myself.

And it is wrong--in a moral sense.

We all have human dignity and need to be respected for that, regardless of some of the posters' behavior on TOL.

jzeidler
August 9th, 2015, 02:26 PM
I said

lol I just cant believe when I show you what the Word says that you turn right around and blaspheme it.





Heb 4:12-13



12For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.



(NKJ)


That verse has nothing to do with us fully understanding God. It has everything with God fully understanding everything.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 02:38 PM
That verse has nothing to do with us fully understanding God. It has everything with God fully understanding everything.

I said
Yes it does just like this one. Look just because you don't understand Him yet. Don't project your own ignorance on everyone else. That is away to prideful.

Mark 4:22-23
22 "For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.
23 "If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
(NKJ)

oatmeal
August 9th, 2015, 02:40 PM
How can your mind fully understand a being who created your mind? Since he created your mind he is above and can not be concealed in your mind.

Also, be mature. No one needs this whole ROFLOL.

Is is about full understanding everything?

or is our quest for scriptural truths about understanding what is given to us to understand?

Indeed, God designed our brains, our minds functionings, therefore He knows how much we can handle and according to His wisdom, He had that much recorded in scripture so that we can learn and know and understand.

I Timothy 2:4, II Peter 1:3-4

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 02:41 PM
Just don't make any claims that you have peered into my own soul, read my mind or found my intentions.

In our rush to confront and understand others' ideas, thoughts and beliefs, we rush to an arrogant judgment at times. The only way I can notice this in others is because I have too often done the same thing myself.

And it is wrong--in a moral sense.

I said
I'm not. But the Holy Spirit might. I'm not here to learn anyone else ideas. I'm only here to demonstrate the Spirit. What others get from that is between them and God.

1 Cor 2:1-5

1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
3 I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
(NKJ)

oatmeal
August 9th, 2015, 02:45 PM
A God that can be understood is no God at all.

I understand that God is love, I John 4:8

I understand that God is light, I John 1:5

I understand that God is spirit, John 4:24

I understand that God is rich in mercy, Ephesians 2:4

I understand that God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning, Genesis 1:1

Why are you so ignorant of your God?

Why wouldn't God want you to know Him?

oatmeal
August 9th, 2015, 02:47 PM
OK then, Try reading the TOL Statement of Faith. That ought to give you a hint on where they are coming from.

Open rebuke is better than secret love.

If the trinity is right, rebuke to your hearts content.

However, if God is one, not three in one, (where is scripture does "three in one" appear) then are you willing to be openly rebuked?

If not, why not? Why the one way street?

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 02:52 PM
I understand that God is love, I John 4:8

I understand that God is light, I John 1:5

I understand that God is spirit, John 4:24

I understand that God is rich in mercy, Ephesians 2:4

I understand that God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning, Genesis 1:1

Why are you so ignorant of your God?

Why wouldn't God want you to know Him?

I said
Good point. God is Spirit. Jesus wasn't Spirit. while He walk on earth.

John 4:23-24
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
(NKJ)

Totton Linnet
August 9th, 2015, 02:53 PM
When God created did He say "let Me make man in My image" or did He say "let us make man in our image" ?

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 02:53 PM
Open rebuke is better than secret love.

If the trinity is right, rebuke to your hearts content.

However, if God is one, not three in one, (where is scripture does "three in one" appear) then are you willing to be openly rebuked?

If not, why not? Why the one way street?

I said
I think all he is allowed to do is reprove. Its not rebuke without the Word (verses).

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 03:29 PM
I think we have now covered every piece of evidence that the trinity has ever used and refuted it. On this one thread. If anyone can think of anything else bring it up on this thread.

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 05:21 PM
You know I have never gotten a reply when I post these verses.

When Jesus was praying to His Father and said that the Father is the only true God
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)


Or when Jesus said that we have the very same God and the very same Father that He does.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)


Or even Paul when Paul said for us there is only one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Totton Linnet
August 9th, 2015, 05:23 PM
You know I have never gotten a reply when I post these verses.

When Jesus was praying to His Father and said that the Father is the only true God
John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)


Or when Jesus said that we have the very same God and the very same Father that He does.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)


Or even Paul when Paul said for us there is only one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords),
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

The answer is in that same prayer where Jesus asks His Father to restore to Him the glory He shared with the Father before the world began

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 05:28 PM
The answer is in that same prayer where Jesus asks His Father to restore to Him the glory He shared with the Father before the world began

I said
It was time for Jesus to die on the cross. And the glory He was talking about was being back in heaven in the presence of God the Father.

Bright Raven
August 9th, 2015, 05:30 PM
I said
It was time for Jesus to die on the cross. And the glory He was talking about was being back in heaven in the presence of God the Father.

That is not what the scripture says. This is what it says;

John 17:4-5 Modern English Version (MEV)

4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work You have given Me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify Me in Your own presence with the glory which I had with You before the world existed.

1Mind1Spirit
August 9th, 2015, 05:32 PM
The answer is in that same prayer where Jesus asks His Father to restore to Him the glory He shared with the Father before the world began

You mean the glory of being the Father's delight?

Which in no way claims he is God?



Proverbs 8:30 KJV

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Squeaky
August 9th, 2015, 05:37 PM
That is not what the scripture says. This is what it says;

John 17:4-5 Modern English Version (MEV)

4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work You have given Me to do.

5 And now, O Father, glorify Me in Your own presence with the glory which I had with You before the world existed.

I said
I don't think you meant to do that but the verses you posted support exactly what I said.