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Robert Pate
August 3rd, 2015, 05:05 AM
This article should be the end of religion, but it won't be because people believe what they want to believe regardless of what the scriptures say.

There was only one person that God accepted into heaven, that was Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him, simply because God is no respector of persons.

The Colossians were glorying in their Christian lives and Paul had to bring them back to the Gospel, so Paul said to them...

"If you have been risen with Christ then seek those things which are above, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. Set your effections on things above, not on things on the earth. For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:1-3.

"For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God". "Wait just a minute Paul. Do you mean that God did not chose me to be saved before the foundation of the world?" God is no respector of persons so the answer is NO.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

When Jesus lived, we lived in him.
When Jesus died, we died with him.
When Jesus arose from to dead, we arose with him.
When Jesus ascended into heaven we ascended with him.

God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. That beautifull sinless life that Jesus lived, that is your life. Paul was trying to get the Colossians to see that, this is why he said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God". And again Paul was trying to get their eyes off of themselves when he said, "When Christ who is OUR LIFE , shall appear, then shall you appear with him in glory" Colossians 3:4.

God does NOTHING individually. All things are done in, by, and through Jesus Christ. "And he (Jesus) is before ALL THINGS and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:17. In the light of this no one has been predestinated (Calvinist). In the light of this no one can be saved by their personal holiness (Catholics). We are saved by being "In Christ". To be in Christ means that you are trusting in Christ alone for your salvation. It is NOT Jesus Christ plus your religion. It is Jesus Christ plus nothing.

Interplanner
August 3rd, 2015, 07:05 AM
Well done, RobertP. There are no two words more revolutionary than "in Christ" in all the universe.

Robert Pate
August 3rd, 2015, 07:11 AM
Well done, RobertP. There are no two words more revolutionary than "in Christ" in all the universe.


I know. I use it a lot on the Forum, but no one seems to listen.

Ben Masada
August 3rd, 2015, 07:49 AM
If God is indeed no Respecter of Persons, how to you explain Jeremiah 46:28? "...for I will make a full end of all the nations where I have driven you, but I will not make a full end of you, but correct you in measure; yet I will not leave you wholly unpunished." In other translations, the point is that of other nations, I will eventually get rid of them but you, I will only chastise as you deserve. If this is not God being Respecter of Israel in spite of other peoples, what is it?

beloved57
August 3rd, 2015, 07:52 AM
This article should be the end of religion, but it won't be because people believe what they want to believe regardless of what the scriptures say.

There was only one person that God accepted into heaven, that was Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him, simply because God is no respector of persons.

The Colossians were glorying in their Christian lives and Paul had to bring them back to the Gospel, so Paul said to them...

"If you have been risen with Christ then seek those things which are above, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. Set your effections on things above, not on things on the earth. For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:1-3.

"For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God". "Wait just a minute Paul. Do you mean that God did not chose me to be saved before the foundation of the world?" God is no respector of persons so the answer is NO.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

When Jesus lived, we lived in him.
When Jesus died, we died with him.
When Jesus arose from to dead, we arose with him.
When Jesus ascended into heaven we ascended with him.

God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. That beautifull sinless life that Jesus lived, that is your life. Paul was trying to get the Colossians to see that, this is why he said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God". And again Paul was trying to get their eyes off of themselves when he said, "When Christ who is OUR LIFE , shall appear, then shall you appear with him in glory" Colossians 3:4.

God does NOTHING individually. All things are done in, by, and through Jesus Christ. "And he (Jesus) is before ALL THINGS and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:17. In the light of this no one has been predestinated (Calvinist). In the light of this no one can be saved by their personal holiness (Catholics). We are saved by being "In Christ". To be in Christ means that you are trusting in Christ alone for your salvation. It is NOT Jesus Christ plus your religion. It is Jesus Christ plus nothing.

Invalid comments not supported with scripture !

Zeke
August 3rd, 2015, 08:01 AM
This article should be the end of religion, but it won't be because people believe what they want to believe regardless of what the scriptures say.

There was only one person that God accepted into heaven, that was Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him, simply because God is no respector of persons.

The Colossians were glorying in their Christian lives and Paul had to bring them back to the Gospel, so Paul said to them...

"If you have been risen with Christ then seek those things which are above, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. Set your effections on things above, not on things on the earth. For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:1-3.

"For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God". "Wait just a minute Paul. Do you mean that God did not chose me to be saved before the foundation of the world?" God is no respector of persons so the answer is NO.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

When Jesus lived, we lived in him.
When Jesus died, we died with him.
When Jesus arose from to dead, we arose with him.
When Jesus ascended into heaven we ascended with him.

God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. That beautifull sinless life that Jesus lived, that is your life. Paul was trying to get the Colossians to see that, this is why he said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God". And again Paul was trying to get their eyes off of themselves when he said, "When Christ who is OUR LIFE , shall appear, then shall you appear with him in glory" Colossians 3:4.

God does NOTHING individually. All things are done in, by, and through Jesus Christ. "And he (Jesus) is before ALL THINGS and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:17. In the light of this no one has been predestinated (Calvinist). In the light of this no one can be saved by their personal holiness (Catholics). We are saved by being "In Christ". To be in Christ means that you are trusting in Christ alone for your salvation. It is NOT Jesus Christ plus your religion. It is Jesus Christ plus nothing.

The template of Jesus who was spirit represents everyone born from above, yet this above means within mans temple/mind/Jerusalem where the revelation takes place Gen 32:30, plus there is always two mothers who give birth, one of the flesh/matter Galatians 4:24 and one of the divine/spirit Galatians 4:26, this allegory is about these two natures in Adam not two separated bodies of flesh and blood, the first born of the flesh born under the laws of matter in the which John/Moses where examples who attained greatness in the flesh yet would be least in the Kingdom of heaven Matt 11:11, yet the laws of the spirit transcend these observable laws 2Cor 3:6, and is based on the more excellent way of the spirit 1Cor 13.

Even you're doctrine is based on a historical literal story that makes these two separated natures as actual brothers of the flesh instead of what they really represented in Adam/Man 1Cor 15:45, Luke 17:20-21.

Jerry Shugart
August 3rd, 2015, 08:02 AM
God does NOTHING individually.

Only those who are baptized into the Body of Christ are baptized into His death:


"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death" (Ro.6:3-4).

God the Spirit baptizes "individuals" into the Body of Christ.

Robert Pate
August 3rd, 2015, 09:12 AM
If God is indeed no Respecter of Persons, how to you explain Jeremiah 46:28? "...for I will make a full end of all the nations where I have driven you, but I will not make a full end of you, but correct you in measure; yet I will not leave you wholly unpunished." In other translations, the point is that of other nations, I will eventually get rid of them but you, I will only chastise as you deserve. If this is not God being Respecter of Israel in spite of other peoples, what is it?

Jeremiah was a prophet. God chose him for a purpose.

God chose prophets, Israel, patriarchs, apostles, for the sole purpose of making known to the world the Gospel of his Son Jesus Christ.

Robert Pate
August 3rd, 2015, 09:15 AM
Only those who are baptized into the Body of Christ are baptized into His death:


"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death" (Ro.6:3-4).

God the Spirit baptizes "individuals" into the Body of Christ.


Only when they come to Christ as repentant sinners.

They are then sealed with the Holy Spirit and are placed "In Christ".

God sees all Christians in his Son Jesus Christ.

serpentdove
August 3rd, 2015, 11:56 AM
"God is No Respector of Persons"

You mean your good looks won't get you into heaven? :sigh: Ro 2:11-12

serpentdove
August 3rd, 2015, 12:01 PM
Well done, RobertP. There are no two words more revolutionary than "in Christ" in all the universe.

How does one get http://vananne.com/serpentdove/emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif in Christ?

Interplanner
August 3rd, 2015, 12:02 PM
If God is indeed no Respecter of Persons, how to you explain Jeremiah 46:28? "...for I will make a full end of all the nations where I have driven you, but I will not make a full end of you, but correct you in measure; yet I will not leave you wholly unpunished." In other translations, the point is that of other nations, I will eventually get rid of them but you, I will only chastise as you deserve. If this is not God being Respecter of Israel in spite of other peoples, what is it?


There is a new covenant Israel, Ben. The science of how the NT uses the OT will show that many passages have been used to show that another group was meant. One line in Isaiah says "It is too small a thing to bring back the remnant from Israel; I will also bring many from the distant islands" (close). But then the next question is: did he mean to Israel? No, it's no longer about that in the NT.

Rabbi Dennis Prager says the Writings and the Prophets are not considered divine in Judaism; only Torah. I think this may be partly because the shift that the NT finally makes completely is already happening in the Prophets.

Interplanner
August 3rd, 2015, 12:08 PM
How does one get http://vananne.com/serpentdove/emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif in Christ?


Of course, you must believe what the apostles have said has happened in Christ. If you look at Eph 1-3 or Col 1-2, you almost never get away from it. He is saying that in the totality of the Christ event, all those things took place. Read those passages aloud a couple times, it takes your breath away.

For this reason, some people of a particular eschatology get to 2 Cor 5 about the new creation and make a discovery. The verse is not referring to individual changed-lives (although lives are changed). It is referring to all the fundamental things that have changed because God was in Christ. The Greek grammar actually supports this: it should go 'if any man is in Christ the new creation, old things have passed away.' (The emphasis is not on each individual). He was talking about all the faded glory and dismality of the old covenant. So that eschatology group says that the New Creation has already come--in Christ. (I know why they do this, but I can't reconcile it with 2 Pet 3).

We are too prone to look for an experience. Paul once criticized the Corinthians about this; you are comparing yourselves with yourselves (2 Cor 1). To understand what took place in Christ is to get beyond but not detached from our own individual personal experience, and to place all that we find about "in Christ" against the failure of Judaism, the failure of religion in general, and to realize it is historic--once for all time, Jude 1.

Interplanner
August 3rd, 2015, 12:12 PM
RobertP,
Just a note on Colossians. They were being subjected to a sort of neo-Judaism that even claimed to have had first hand contact with the very angels that delivered the Torah to Moses. They were actually glorying in these revelations about the law, which tried to demean what they had in Christ.

beloved57
August 3rd, 2015, 01:21 PM
How does one get http://vananne.com/serpentdove/emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif in Christ?

1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Robert Pate
August 3rd, 2015, 02:55 PM
RobertP,
Just a note on Colossians. They were being subjected to a sort of neo-Judaism that even claimed to have had first hand contact with the very angels that delivered the Torah to Moses. They were actually glorying in these revelations about the law, which tried to demean what they had in Christ.

I suppose.

We only glory in Jesus Christ.

serpentdove
August 3rd, 2015, 04:03 PM
"We are too prone to look for an experience. Paul once criticized the Corinthians about this; you are comparing yourselves with yourselves (2 Cor 1). To understand what took place in Christ is to get beyond but not detached from our own individual personal experience..."

We compare ourselves to the standard--Christ--not to some drunk in a ditch (Mt 5:48). There is no good in us (Mk 10:18). We must be found in him (Is. 53:5, 6).

Cruciform
August 3rd, 2015, 04:46 PM
In the light of this no one can be saved by their personal holiness (Catholics).
Straw Man Fallacy.

Robert Pate
August 3rd, 2015, 05:09 PM
Straw Man Fallacy.

No straw man.

Biblical truth. Your old Adamic nature cannot be re-habilitated. You should know that from experience.

We only receive the "first fruits" of the Holy Spirit, Romans 8:23.

We still have our sin nature that is prone to sin. it is very apparent that Catholics are sinners. God is not the minister of sin.

Cruciform
August 3rd, 2015, 09:48 PM
No straw man.
Post #18

heir
August 3rd, 2015, 11:18 PM
"God is No Respector of Persons" Acts 10:34What's funny is right after Peter says that, he says this:

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

It's wonderful that is not true for us!

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

All the more reason to get our instructions from Paul (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV) in the form of sound words of Romans through Philemon!

Ephesians 3:1-12 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:8-9 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV

Robert Pate
August 4th, 2015, 07:38 AM
What's funny is right after Peter says that, he says this:

Acts 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

It's wonderful that is not true for us!

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

All the more reason to get our instructions from Paul (1 Corinthians 4:15-16 KJV) in the form of sound words of Romans through Philemon!

Ephesians 3:1-12 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:8-9 KJV, 2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:7-8 KJV


God is no respector of persons in the sense that he does not provide salvation for individuals based upon or according to who they are, our by what they have done, or by what they have become. Which is a direct contradiction of Catholicism and Calvinism or any religion that believes in salvation by works or meism.

Jesus Christ is the international savior. He provides salvation for the whole world, not just some individuals, 1 John 2:2. He is no respector of persons.

beloved57
August 6th, 2015, 05:47 AM
God is no respector of persons in the sense that he does not provide salvation for individuals based upon or according to who they are, our by what they have done, or by what they have become. Which is a direct contradiction of Catholicism and Calvinism or any religion that believes in salvation by works or meism.

Jesus Christ is the international savior. He provides salvation for the whole world, not just some individuals, 1 John 2:2. He is no respector of persons.

Invalid comments not supported by scripture!

Robert Pate
August 17th, 2015, 05:51 AM
Invalid comments not supported by scripture!

Very valid comments.

You are to spiritually blind to see it.

God loves all men and is not willing that any should perish, but we know that some will perish because they do not believe on the one whom God has sent.

beloved57
August 17th, 2015, 06:02 AM
Very valid comments.

You are to spiritually blind to see it.

God loves all men and is not willing that any should perish, but we know that some will perish because they do not believe on the one whom God has sent.

More invalid comments!

Interplanner
August 17th, 2015, 06:05 AM
B57,
you can cry invalid all day, but you have to show reasons and evidence. A proposition is not just true because you B57 bang on it 1000x.

Robert Pate
August 17th, 2015, 07:44 AM
B57,
you can cry invalid all day, but you have to show reasons and evidence. A proposition is not just true because you B57 bang on it 1000x.


He is to lazy to show reason and evidence.

beloved57
August 19th, 2015, 01:54 PM
B57,
you can cry invalid all day, but you have to show reasons and evidence. A proposition is not just true because you B57 bang on it 1000x.

Well it is invalid because the comments lack scripture support, so the comments invalidate themselves, I just acknowledge the same!

Robert Pate
August 19th, 2015, 04:34 PM
Well it is invalid because the comments lack scripture support, so the comments invalidate themselves, I just acknowledge the same!


If Jesus himself came down from heaven and told you that you were wrong you would not believe him.

You won't get the message until it is to late.

beloved57
August 19th, 2015, 04:55 PM
If Jesus himself came down from heaven and told you that you were wrong you would not believe him.

You won't get the message until it is to late.

You are the one who despises Gods Gospel of Grace in Christ!

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 07:19 AM
You are the one who despises Gods Gospel of Grace in Christ!


Look up the word "Grace" in your dictionary.

Grace in the Bible means God's undeserved favor towards fallen man.

Your Calvinist God is not gracious. He is a mean, unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant, that delights in sending people to hell.

It is not humanly possible to have faith in your god.

Cross Reference
August 20th, 2015, 07:24 AM
This article should be the end of religion, but it won't be because people believe what they want to believe regardless of what the scriptures say.

There was only one person that God accepted into heaven, that was Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him, simply because God is no respector of persons.

The Colossians were glorying in their Christian lives and Paul had to bring them back to the Gospel, so Paul said to them...

"If you have been risen with Christ then seek those things which are above, where Christ sits at the right hand of God. Set your effections on things above, not on things on the earth. For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God" Colossians 3:1-3.

"For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God". "Wait just a minute Paul. Do you mean that God did not chose me to be saved before the foundation of the world?" God is no respector of persons so the answer is NO.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

When Jesus lived, we lived in him.
When Jesus died, we died with him.
When Jesus arose from to dead, we arose with him.
When Jesus ascended into heaven we ascended with him.

God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. That beautifull sinless life that Jesus lived, that is your life. Paul was trying to get the Colossians to see that, this is why he said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God". And again Paul was trying to get their eyes off of themselves when he said, "When Christ who is OUR LIFE , shall appear, then shall you appear with him in glory" Colossians 3:4.

God does NOTHING individually. All things are done in, by, and through Jesus Christ. "And he (Jesus) is before ALL THINGS and by him all things consist" Colossians 1:17. In the light of this no one has been predestinated (Calvinist). In the light of this no one can be saved by their personal holiness (Catholics). We are saved by being "In Christ". To be in Christ means that you are trusting in Christ alone for your salvation. It is NOT Jesus Christ plus your religion. It is Jesus Christ plus nothing.

Why will there be rewards given out on judgment day that will vary between people?

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 07:32 AM
Why will there be rewards given out on judgment day that will vary between people?

We will be judged according to what we have done with the Gospel and by what we have done in our flesh as a Christian, 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Cross Reference
August 20th, 2015, 07:41 AM
We will be judged according to what we have done with the Gospel and by what we have done in our flesh as a Christian, 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Wrong!! We will be judged by what we did with Jesus. That covers all the bases.

Ever consider yourself to be an gnostic? You should.

Interplanner
August 20th, 2015, 08:19 AM
CrossR,
calm down. There isn't anything else to Jesus but the Gospel.

You're not thinking clearly, you're trying to "win" each post. Very bad way to operate. You'll be nose-hooked into anything that says the opposite of what you just read.

beloved57
August 20th, 2015, 08:43 AM
Look up the word "Grace" in your dictionary.

Grace in the Bible means God's undeserved favor towards fallen man.

Your Calvinist God is not gracious. He is a mean, unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant, that delights in sending people to hell.

It is not humanly possible to have faith in your god.

I can look it up a million times, you still despise the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ !

Jerry Shugart
August 20th, 2015, 08:59 AM
God does NOTHING individually.

Only those who are baptized into the Body of Christ are baptized into His death:


"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death" (Ro.6:3-4).

God the Spirit baptizes "individuals" into the Body of Christ.

That contradicts your idea. Are you willing to argue that those who have been baptized into the Body of Christ are not baptized "individually" into the Lord's death?

Cross Reference
August 20th, 2015, 09:42 AM
CrossR,
calm down. There isn't anything else to Jesus but the Gospel.

You're not thinking clearly, you're trying to "win" each post. Very bad way to operate. You'll be nose-hooked into anything that says the opposite of what you just read.

That is because you don't know Him __ and never will in your state of being.

Never mind my "thinking clearly". I possess a 'life' sustaining message. Do you? I don't think so.

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 09:47 AM
Only those who are baptized into the Body of Christ are baptized into His death:


"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death" (Ro.6:3-4).

God the Spirit baptizes "individuals" into the Body of Christ.

That contradicts your idea. Are you willing to argue that those who have been baptized into the Body of Christ are not baptized "individually" into the Lord's death?


Only those that have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

Salvation has been provided for all, but it must be received by faith, John 1:12.

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 09:50 AM
Wrong!! We will be judged by what we did with Jesus. That covers all the bases.

Ever consider yourself to be an gnostic? You should.

What you do with Jesus is you preach his Gospel.

Cross Reference
August 20th, 2015, 09:55 AM
What you do with Jesus is you preach his Gospel.

Wrong again! Don't you ever learn anything from reading the gospel you put in front of Him for salvation?? What a Christian is supposed to do with Jesus is to "fill up [I]that which is [left] behind of the afflictions of Christ in [your] my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church" Colossians 1:24 (KJV)

Get it now?

[Emphasis mine]

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 10:09 AM
Wrong again! Don't you ever learn anything from reading the gospel you put in front of Him for salvation?? What a Christian is supposed to do with Jesus is to "fill up [I]that which is [left] behind of the afflictions of Christ in [your] my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church" Colossians 1:24 (KJV)

Get it now?

[Emphasis mine]


You don't know or believe the Gospel.

You think that its all about you, who is a sinner.

You would make a good Catholic, filling up on grape juice and wafers trying to become like Christ.

You can't figure out how God justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5, can you?

beloved57
August 20th, 2015, 10:14 AM
You don't know or believe the Gospel.

You think that its all about you, who is a sinner.

You would make a good Catholic, filling up on grape juice and wafers trying to become like Christ.

You can't figure out how God justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5, can you?

Look whose talking ! One who scoffs at the Gospel daily !

Interplanner
August 20th, 2015, 10:20 AM
You don't know or believe the Gospel.

You think that its all about you, who is a sinner.

You would make a good Catholic, filling up on grape juice and wafers trying to become like Christ.

You can't figure out how God justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5, can you?

CrossR,
that Col reference is skittish. It is Paul in one circumstance speaking to one group. Remember, he is a guy to whom "the Lord showed how much he must suffer for his sake." Because of the damage Paul did to the church. Have you done that much damage? Was it at the launch of the church? Then you would be in line to use that passage for yourself.

Cross Reference
August 20th, 2015, 10:28 AM
CrossR,
that Col reference is skittish. It is Paul in one circumstance speaking to one group. Remember, he is a guy to whom "the Lord showed how much he must suffer for his sake." Because of the damage Paul did to the church. Have you done that much damage? Was it at the launch of the church? Then you would be in line to use that passage for yourself.

"Skittish"?? Everyone who understands what Jesus Christ was all about should take that passage to themselves. Life is tragic. By antagonism, we learn it. How we handle it while living it out is what counts in the sight of God; how we handle affliction[s]. However, with Pate and you it must be understood, God isn't paying attention because you aren't paying attention.. So you go ahead and live your lives to the fullest, as you see fit. Don't bother with pursuing God as Father, to know Him as He desires to be known. Only His kids are allowed to make that journey Home.

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 02:03 PM
"Skittish"?? Everyone who understands what Jesus Christ was all about should take that passage to themselves. Life is tragic. By antagonism, we learn it. How we handle it while living it out is what counts in the sight of God; how we handle affliction[s]. However, with Pate and you it must be understood, God isn't paying attention because you aren't paying attention.. So you go ahead and live your lives to the fullest, as you see fit. Don't bother with pursuing God as Father, to know Him as He desires to be known. Only His kids are allowed to make that journey Home.

Yep, you are very religious.

I am not religious. I do not live according to laws or rules. I try to be led by the Spirit of Christ, which is a much higher life than living by religion.

I notice that you seldom quote scripture is that because you can't find any scripture that is compatible with what you are saying?

Where does it say that we should pursue God?

Christians don't pursue God because they are already "In Christ". God sees them as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10.

I don't think that you are there.

Cross Reference
August 20th, 2015, 02:17 PM
yawn

Jerry Shugart
August 20th, 2015, 02:36 PM
Only those that have come to Christ as repentant sinners to be saved by him.

Salvation has been provided for all, but it must be received by faith, John 1:12.

That answers none of the points which I brought up. You just try to change the subject.

When cornered all you do is run and hide, just like you did on my thread titled "Tasted Death for Every Man."

Why did you suddenly disappear from that thread? Were you embarrassed because when you were cornered you said that Peter was in error when he said this:


"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).

Too bad that you were not living in the first century so that you could have corrected Peter!

I have noticed that you have a lot of correct information to share on many of your threads. But do you not know that you lose credibility when you say that Peter was just confused so what he said at Acts 19:43 was just a big blunder on his part?

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 04:53 PM
That answers none of the points which I brought up. You just try to change the subject.

When cornered all you do is run and hide, just like you did on my thread titled "Tasted Death for Every Man."

Why did you suddenly disappear from that thread? Were you embarrassed because when you were cornered you said that Peter was in error when he said this:


"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Acts 10:43).

Too bad that you were not living in the first century so that you could have corrected Peter!

I have noticed that you have a lot of correct information to share on many of your threads. But do you not know that you lose credibility when you say that Peter was just confused so what he said at Acts 19:43 was just a big blunder on his part?

I answerwed your post "Tasted Death For Every Man" You just don't believe that Jesus has tasted death for every man.

Peter made a lot of mistakes. He denied Christ three times. There is no Acts 19:43.

Paul had to correct Peter, Galatians 2:11.

Your problem is that you don't believe the Gospel. You don't believe that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15.

Nor do you believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

You are an unbeliever.

Cruciform
August 20th, 2015, 04:57 PM
Your problem is that you don't believe the Gospel. You don't believe that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15.

QUESTION: Do you, Pate, commit personal sins---yes or no?

Jerry Shugart
August 20th, 2015, 07:42 PM
I answerwed your post "Tasted Death For Every Man"

You did not because you refused to address the LORD's words here spoken to Paul about his ministry to the Gentiles:


"to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:18).

According to you at the Cross the sins of all men were expiated. If that is true then how would it be possible that the Gentiles could have their sins remitted if their sins were already expiated?

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 05:18 AM
QUESTION: Do you, Pate, commit personal sins---yes or no?

All men are sinners of which I am Chief, 1 Timothy 1:15.

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 05:27 AM
You did not because you refused to address the LORD's words here spoken to Paul about his ministry to the Gentiles:


"to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:18).

According to you at the Cross the sins of all men were expiated. If that is true then how would it be possible that the Gentiles could have their sins remitted if their sins were already expiated?


When Jesus died on the cross all of the old sinful Adamic race died with him. Sin, death and the devil were abolished. Jesus Christ is now God's new Adam and God's new humanity. God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Romans 6:1-13.

If Jesus had not atoned for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2 then God would not have accepted Jesus into heaven.

beloved57
August 21st, 2015, 06:57 AM
When Jesus died on the cross all of the old sinful Adamic race died with him. Sin, death and the devil were abolished. Jesus Christ is now God's new Adam and God's new humanity. God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Romans 6:1-13.

If Jesus had not atoned for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2 then God would not have accepted Jesus into heaven.

You teach that those Christ died for shall yet die in their sins in unbelief, which gives the victory to the devil !

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 07:05 AM
You teach that those Christ died for shall yet die in their sins in unbelief, which gives the victory to the devil !

You don't believe the Gospel either.

You are just one of many on this Forum that don't believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world.

You also are an unbeliever.

beloved57
August 21st, 2015, 07:11 AM
You don't believe the Gospel either.

You are just one of many on this Forum that don't believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world.

You also are an unbeliever.

You teach that the Death of Christ has been defeated against them He died to save ! You give more honor to the world, flesh and the devil than the Power of God through Christ !

See Christ is the Power of God 1 Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 07:13 AM
You teach that the Death of Christ has been defeated against them He died to save ! You give more honor to the world, flesh and the devil than the Power of God through Christ !

See Christ is the Power of God 1 Cor 1:24

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

You are lost and are going to hell, unless you call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

beloved57
August 21st, 2015, 07:17 AM
You are lost and are going to hell, unless you call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

Thats promoting salvation by works, by what a person does, not by what Christ did !

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 07:20 AM
Thats promoting salvation by works, by what a person does, not by what Christ did !

Jesus said that if you don't believe and trust in him you will perish, John 3:16.

beloved57
August 21st, 2015, 07:21 AM
Jesus said that if you don't believe and trust in him you will perish, John 3:16.

John 3:16 doesnt say if you dont believe you will perish ! Thats falsifying scripture !

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 07:25 AM
John 3:16 doesnt say if you dont believe you will perish ! Thats falsifying scripture !

"Whosoever that believes in him should not perish" John 3:16.

Because you don't believe in him, you will perish. If you believed in him you would ask him to save you.

beloved57
August 21st, 2015, 07:28 AM
"Whosoever that believes in him should not perish" John 3:16.

Because you don't believe in him, you will perish. If you believed in him you would ask him to save you.

John 3:16 does not say:

if you dont believe you will perish ! Thats falsifying scripture !

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 07:32 AM
John 3:16 does not say:

if you dont believe you will perish ! Thats falsifying scripture !

You are indeed a blind fool headed for hell.

beloved57
August 21st, 2015, 07:36 AM
You are indeed a blind fool headed for hell.

You are a false preacher with a false gospel, Paul says of people like you Gal 1:8-9 !

Jerry Shugart
August 21st, 2015, 08:06 AM
When Jesus died on the cross all of the old sinful Adamic race died with him. Sin, death and the devil were abolished. Jesus Christ is now God's new Adam and God's new humanity. God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Romans 6:1-13.

Why do you continue to refuse to answer my question?

You are delusional if you think that at the Cross "all the old sinful Adamic race died with him and that sin died with Him."

The Apostle John made it plain that sin did not die at the Cross when he said the following to believers:


"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn.1:8-10).

If all sin was expiated at the Cross then explain why John would tell those things to believers?

heir
August 21st, 2015, 10:36 AM
You did not because you refused to address the LORD's words here spoken to Paul about his ministry to the Gentiles:


"to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:18).

According to you at the Cross the sins of all men were expiated. If that is true then how would it be possible that the Gentiles could have their sins remitted if their sins were already expiated?When will you get a real Bible? It would quickly remove your confusion as you could allow IT to be your final authority!

Acts 26:18 reads:

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

It says forgiveness of sins not remission! And it's not to say that their sins were not already forgiven as you imply, but this:

Acts 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

To "receive forgiveness of sins" is to receive the love of the truth that they could be saved and not perish as these will for receiving not the love of the truth:

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The love of the truth is to believe that when Christ died for their sins according to the scriptures and that He was buried and rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) it was that their sins were forgiven just as it now is for us fellowheirs by the gospel (Ephesians 1:7 KJV, Ephesians 4:32 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV, Colossians 2:13 KJV)!

heir
August 21st, 2015, 10:41 AM
Why do you continue to refuse to answer my question?

You are delusional if you think that at the Cross "all the old sinful Adamic race died with him and that sin died with Him."

The Apostle John made it plain that sin did not die at the Cross when he said the following to believers:


"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn.1:8-10).

If all sin was expiated at the Cross then explain why John would tell those things to believers?Here's an example where your ignorance of the timing of the atonement for Israel plays into your confusion.

Interplanner
August 21st, 2015, 11:29 AM
Here's an example where your ignorance of the timing of the atonement for Israel plays into your confusion.


To JerryS,
because there are two aspects to redemption and they cannot be mixed without confusion. Expiation has to do with guilt or debt or the past. It does not have to do with the ongoing problem of doing sin. When? At all times, and time moves on, as they say.

Likewise there are two aspects to eschatology and they cannot be mixed without confusion.

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 05:04 PM
Why do you continue to refuse to answer my question?

You are delusional if you think that at the Cross "all the old sinful Adamic race died with him and that sin died with Him."

The Apostle John made it plain that sin did not die at the Cross when he said the following to believers:


"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" (1 Jn.1:8-10).

If all sin was expiated at the Cross then explain why John would tell those things to believers?


John also said, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also for the whole world" 1 John 2:2.

Nanja
August 21st, 2015, 06:02 PM
John also said, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also for the whole world" 1 John 2:2.


Meaning, not only jews, but Gentiles also.

God's Elect come from all the nations of the world.

Psalm 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun:
and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof:
for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people

~~~~~

beloved57
August 21st, 2015, 06:06 PM
John also said, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also for the whole world" 1 John 2:2.

You don't believe that scripture! You teach that millions for whom Christ died and reconciled to God, propitiated Him in behalf of, shall go into Eternal Wrath!

Robert Pate
August 22nd, 2015, 07:59 AM
Meaning, not only jews, but Gentiles also.

God's Elect come from all the nations of the world.

Psalm 72:17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun:
and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof:
for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation

Rev. 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people

~~~~~


When you are confronted with truth.

You act like a trapped animal. You scatter.

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

This scripture means that all, anyone, everyone, that calls on Christ to save them will be saved.

This one scripture refutes Calvinism completely.

Robert Pate
August 22nd, 2015, 08:04 AM
You don't believe that scripture! You teach that millions for whom Christ died and reconciled to God, propitiated Him in behalf of, shall go into Eternal Wrath!

Instead of accepting the truth in 1 John 2:2, you accuse me of being a false teacher.

Jesus is the savior and redeemer of the whole world, Hebrews 2:9.

So many scriptures refute Calvinism. yet you continue to support it.

beloved57
August 22nd, 2015, 08:07 AM
Instead of accepting the truth in 1 John 2:2, you accuse me of being a false teacher.

Jesus is the savior and redeemer of the whole world, Hebrews 2:9.

So many scriptures refute Calvinism. yet you continue to support it.

You don't believe those verses, none under Gods Wrath John 3:36 are in the whole world of 1jn 2:2 !

Robert Pate
August 22nd, 2015, 08:27 AM
You don't believe those verses, none under Gods Wrath John 3:36 are in the whole world of 1jn 2:2 !

Of course I believe those scriptures.

Do you think that I am under God's wrath because I don't believe in Calvinism?

Not only does 1 John 2:2 refute Calvinism, there are dozens and dozens of other scriptures that do the same thing.

It takes more faith than what I have to believe in Calvinism. You must really have to work at it.

beloved57
August 22nd, 2015, 08:36 AM
Of course I believe those scriptures.

Do you think that I am under God's wrath because I don't believe in Calvinism?

Not only does 1 John 2:2 refute Calvinism, there are dozens and dozens of other scriptures that do the same thing.

It takes more faith than what I have to believe in Calvinism. You must really have to work at it.

No you don't, that is impossible, none can be of that world of 1jn 2:2 and be under Gods Wrath John 3:36 !

Jerry Shugart
August 22nd, 2015, 11:00 AM
Acts 26:18 reads:

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

It says forgiveness of sins not remission!


"to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive remission of sins and inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:18; DBY).

The primary meaning of the Greek word translated "remit" is "to send away" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words).

And that is exactly what the word means here:


"Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them, and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained" (Jn.20:23; KJV).

Interplanner
August 22nd, 2015, 12:23 PM
It either means justification or transformation. The words in the justification category all sound legal or financial: atone, remit, cancel, credit righteousness, expiate, propitiate, etc.

Robert Pate
August 22nd, 2015, 03:14 PM
No you don't, that is impossible, none can be of that world of 1jn 2:2 and be under Gods Wrath John 3:36 !

John 3:36 says that those who do not believe are under God's wrath.

Nothing about anyone that has not been elected being under Gods wrath.

I don't think that you know what you believe.

beloved57
August 22nd, 2015, 03:17 PM
John 3:36 says that those who do not believe are under God's wrath.

Nothing about anyone that has not been elected being under Gods wrath.

I don't think that you know what you believe.
Believing doesn't propitiate Gods Wrath, Christ Blood does!

Robert Pate
August 22nd, 2015, 03:26 PM
Believing doesn't propitiate Gods Wrath, Christ Blood does!

The Bible says that the unbelieving will be cast into the lake of fire.

In my book you are an unbeliever.

beloved57
August 22nd, 2015, 03:27 PM
The Bible says that the unbelieving will be cast into the lake of fire.

In my book you are an unbeliever.
Believing doesn't propitiate God, Jesus Christ death alone does!

Nanja
August 22nd, 2015, 05:04 PM
Believing doesn't propitiate God, Jesus Christ death alone does!

Absolutely correct!

~~~~~

Totton Linnet
August 22nd, 2015, 05:09 PM
I know. I use it a lot on the Forum, but no one seems to listen.

It all happened by chance huh? the luck of the draw...being in the right place at the right time....whoosh you are in Christ


...That took God by surprise....He never spected YOU to turn up

heir
August 22nd, 2015, 11:42 PM
[I]"to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive remission of sins and inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me" (Acts 26:18; DBY).One of the reasons you remain confused...You refuse to get away from running to a corrupted word of God.

Robert Pate
August 23rd, 2015, 07:25 AM
It all happened by chance huh? the luck of the draw...being in the right place at the right time....whoosh you are in Christ


...That took God by surprise....He never spected YOU to turn up


No one can bcome a Christian without the convicting power of the Holy Spirit.

On the day of Pentecost those that heard the Gospel were convicted of their need for Christ by the Holy Spirit and were saved, Acts 2:41.

beloved57
August 23rd, 2015, 08:19 AM
No one can bcome a Christian without the convicting power of the Holy Spirit.

On the day of Pentecost those that heard the Gospel were convicted of their need for Christ by the Holy Spirit and were saved, Acts 2:41.

No one can say that they are a Christian without believing the Gospel, and Tulip truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ!

Interplanner
August 23rd, 2015, 09:02 AM
B57,
you sound like you are in agreement but you sound like you want, hunger for disagreement.

Jerry Shugart
August 23rd, 2015, 10:22 AM
When will you get a real Bible? It would quickly remove your confusion as you could allow IT to be your final authority!

Why would I get a Bible which says that the first day of the feast of unleavened bread preceded the Passover when everyone knows that the opposite is true?:


"In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening, is the Lord’s passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread to the Lord" (Lev.23:5-6).

The "Passover" was a memorial for the events that happened when the Lord said that he would "pass over" the blood stained houses of the Israelites (Ex.12:13-14).

The feast of unleavened bread was a memorial to the time when the Israelites left Egypt (Ex.12:17).

It would be ignorant to argue that the first day of the feast of unleavened bread preceded the passive with all these facts before us.

So why would I purchase a Bible which makes a huge blunder by making the first day of the feast of unleavened bread precede the Passover?:


"Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?" (Mt.26:17; KJV).

I prefer to stick to the translation found here since it is obviously the correct translation:


"Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the passover?” (Mt.26:17; RSV).

beloved57
August 23rd, 2015, 12:27 PM
B57,
you sound like you are in agreement but you sound like you want, hunger for disagreement.

Do you believe the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ, also called Tulip? Let's see if we're in agreement on that!

Interplanner
August 23rd, 2015, 12:39 PM
Yes the Gospel is about God's grace in Christ. Also called the wild rose.

Robert Pate
August 23rd, 2015, 12:45 PM
Yes the Gospel is about God's grace in Christ. Also called the wild rose.

Thats better than a poisonous TULIP.

Interplanner
August 23rd, 2015, 12:46 PM
I was hoping he knew the line from "Above All."

Jerry Shugart
August 23rd, 2015, 02:04 PM
Here's an example where your ignorance of the timing of the atonement for Israel plays into your confusion.

Are you one of those within the Neo-MAD movement who actually believes that the Jews who lived under the law could not receive the blessings of the atonement until sometime in the future?

One of those blessings of the atonement is redemption through the blood of the Lord Jesus. And those to whom Peter addressed in His first epistle had indeed received that blessing:


" Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

You are totally confused and you will stay confused as long as you continue to put more faith in the teachings of the Neo-MAD crowd than you do in what the Sacriptures actually say.

beloved57
August 23rd, 2015, 02:28 PM
Yes the Gospel is about God's grace in Christ. Also called the wild rose.

Have you ever heard of the acronym Tulip ?

Ktoyou
August 23rd, 2015, 02:57 PM
Are you one of those within the Neo-MAD movement who actually believes that the Jews who lived under the law could not receive the blessings of the atonement until sometime in the future?


They can, but then they would accept Christ and be Christians

Robert Pate
August 23rd, 2015, 04:24 PM
Have you ever heard of the acronym Tulip ?

Maybe they should call it a PILUT.

beloved57
August 23rd, 2015, 05:00 PM
Maybe they should call it a PILUT.

Tulip is the Gospel !

Interplanner
August 23rd, 2015, 05:16 PM
It is a set of doctrines, yes, but the Gospel was an event in space and time in which God loved us and gave himself up for us and provided justification from our sins in fulfillment of what was promised to the fathers, Acts 13.

If you think tulip is in Acts 13's sermon fine. Otherwise just keep your comments to what Acts 13 says. I'm not interested in what human systems have come up with.

Jerry Shugart
August 23rd, 2015, 05:21 PM
They can, but then they would accept Christ and be Christians

So you accept the idea that the Jews who lived under the law could not receive the blessings of the atonement until sometime in the future?

beloved57
August 23rd, 2015, 06:08 PM
It is a set of doctrines, yes, but the Gospel was an event in space and time in which God loved us and gave himself up for us and provided justification from our sins in fulfillment of what was promised to the fathers, Acts 13.

If you think tulip is in Acts 13's sermon fine. Otherwise just keep your comments to what Acts 13 says. I'm not interested in what human systems have come up with.

Tulip is the Gospel, and thats what you are not interested in !

Robert Pate
August 23rd, 2015, 08:20 PM
Tulip is the Gospel, and thats what you are not interested in !

TULIP is a doctrine that was conceived in the mind of a heretic.

beloved57
August 23rd, 2015, 08:21 PM
TULIP is a doctrine that was conceived in the mind of a heretic.
Tulip truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ Jesus!

Bright Raven
August 23rd, 2015, 08:25 PM
Tulip truths are the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ Jesus!

TULIP is not the Gospel of God's grace.

beloved57
August 23rd, 2015, 08:26 PM
TULIP is not the Gospel of God's grace.

Yes it is, which proves that you don't believe the Gospel of Gods Grace!

Bright Raven
August 23rd, 2015, 08:30 PM
Yes it is, which proves that you don't believe the Gospel of Gods Grace!

Arguing with a FOOL is senseless.

heir
August 24th, 2015, 04:33 AM
Are you one of those within the Neo-MAD movement who actually believes that the Jews who lived under the law could not receive the blessings of the atonement until sometime in the future?I'm a Bible believer who recognizes the blotting out of sins for Israel is when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord just as the scripture saith.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.



Paul confirms the covenant God made unto them, when He shall take away their sins.


Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


And stop with the "NeoMAD" comments. You are as bad as tet with his "Darby follower" labels. You both need to get over yourself.

SaulToPaul
August 24th, 2015, 12:04 PM
And stop with the "NeoMAD" comments. You are as bad as tet with his "Darby follower" labels. You both need to get over yourself.

Yes, it's almost as if Jerry has placed Andersen and O'Hair upon a pedestal, declaring them Co-Popes of MAD...infallible when writing ex-cathedra. All defectors need to be burned at the stake, or at the least severely punished, or whipped.

Jerry Shugart
August 24th, 2015, 01:08 PM
I'm a Bible believer who recognizes the blotting out of sins for Israel is when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord just as the scripture saith.

You believe those verses which are speaking of "corporate" Israel but you continue to insist that none of the "individual" Jews who lived under the law will receive any of the blessings of the atonement until the Lord Jesus returns to the earth.

However, it is evident to those with even the slightest spiritual discernment that the Jews to whom Peter wrote his epistles had already received blessing which flowed from the atonement:


"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

Even though Peter tells these people that the have been REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LORD JESUS you insist that they have not yet received any of the blessings of the atonement.

Once again you refuse to believe anything revealed in the Bible which contradicts the teaching of those in the Neo-MAD camp. I can only conclude that you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

They were redeemed by the blood of the Lord Jesus but you say that they will not receive any of the blessings which flow from the atonement until the Lord Jesus returns.

Sir Robert Anderson describes you perfectly here:


"In no other sphere save that of religion do men of intelligence and culture willingly subject their minds to delusions. The historic Church once tried to compel belief that this planet was the fixed centre of the solar system; but who believes it now? Men cannot be made to believe that water runs uphill, or that five and five make anything but ten. In no other sphere can they be induced to stultify reason and common sense. But in religion there seems to be no limit to their credulity" (Anderson, The Bible or the Church? [London: Pickering & Inglis, Second Edition], 61).

Jerry Shugart
August 24th, 2015, 01:15 PM
Yes, it's almost as if Jerry has placed Andersen and O'Hair upon a pedestal, declaring them Co-Popes of MAD...infallible when writing ex-cathedra. All defectors need to be burned at the stake, or at the least severely punished, or whipped.

No, I place the Bible upon a pedestal, unlike you.

You prove over and over that your final authority is the teaching within the Neo-MAD community. For example, they teach that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved unless they believe and do works. However, the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to the Jews who lived under the law prove that "believing" was all they had to do to be saved:


"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).

Do you agree with the Lord Jesus that the only requirement for salvation for these Jews was to "believe"?

Grosnick Marowbe
August 24th, 2015, 03:50 PM
Are you one of those within the Neo-MAD movement who actually believes that the Jews who lived under the law could not receive the blessings of the atonement until sometime in the future?

One of those blessings of the atonement is redemption through the blood of the Lord Jesus. And those to whom Peter addressed in His first epistle had indeed received that blessing:


" Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

You are totally confused and you will stay confused as long as you continue to put more faith in the teachings of the Neo-MAD crowd than you do in what the Sacriptures actually say.

Heir is one of the best posters. You're one of the worst. Take my
word for it.

heir
August 24th, 2015, 03:51 PM
You believe those verses which are speaking of "corporate" Israel but you continue to insist that none of the "individual" Jews who lived under the law will receive any of the blessings of the atonement until the Lord Jesus returns to the earth.

However, it is evident to those with even the slightest spiritual discernment that the Jews to whom Peter wrote his epistles had already received blessing which flowed from the atonement:


"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

Even though Peter tells these people that the have been REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF THE LORD JESUS you insist that they have not yet received any of the blessings of the atonement.

Once again you refuse to believe anything revealed in the Bible which contradicts the teaching of those in the Neo-MAD camp. I can only conclude that you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

They were redeemed by the blood of the Lord Jesus but you say that they will not receive any of the blessings which flow from the atonement until the Lord Jesus returns.

Sir Robert Anderson describes you perfectly here:


"In no other sphere save that of religion do men of intelligence and culture willingly subject their minds to delusions. The historic Church once tried to compel belief that this planet was the fixed centre of the solar system; but who believes it now? Men cannot be made to believe that water runs uphill, or that five and five make anything but ten. In no other sphere can they be induced to stultify reason and common sense. But in religion there seems to be no limit to their credulity" (Anderson, The Bible or the Church? [London: Pickering & Inglis, Second Edition], 61).You mistakenly think redemption is Israel's day of atonement, but it is my understanding that they are different. I believe the scriptures of when they shall receive the blotting out of sins. You reject it. I can't make you believe it. Your unbelief is on you, not me.

Jerry Shugart
August 24th, 2015, 04:17 PM
You mistakenly think redemption is Israel's day of atonement, but it is my understanding that they are different.

I never said that and I do not believe that!


I believe the scriptures of when they shall receive the blotting out of sins. You reject it. I can't make you believe it. Your unbelief is on you, not me.

As usual you refuse to address what I said here:


One of those blessings of the atonement is redemption through the blood of the Lord Jesus. And those to whom Peter addressed in His first epistle had indeed received that blessing:


"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

You must not understand that here the words "precious blood of Christ" are referring to the atonement.

Why do you run and hide from those verses?

If you cannot see that these people had received blessings that flow from the atonement then you obviously cannot understand spiritual things:


"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).

Robert Pate
August 24th, 2015, 04:40 PM
I never said that and I do not believe that!



As usual you refuse to address what I said here:


One of those blessings of the atonement is redemption through the blood of the Lord Jesus. And those to whom Peter addressed in His first epistle had indeed received that blessing:


"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

You must not understand that here the words "precious blood of Christ" are referring to the atonement.

Why do you run and hide from those verses?

If you cannot see that these people had received blessings that flow from the atonement then you obviously cannot understand spiritual things:


"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).


When Christ died on the cross all of humanity died with him, Romans 6:6. God put to death the whole sinful Adamic race in Jesus Christ. This is how he defeated sin, death and the devil and reconciled the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

In the resurrection of Jesus God has brought forth a new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17. God is at peace with the world because he sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20, 21, 22.

Salvation has been provided for all as a gift from God. It is because of the doing and the dying of Jesus that, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

beloved57
August 24th, 2015, 05:02 PM
When Christ died on the cross all of humanity died with him, Romans 6:6. God put to death the whole sinful Adamic race in Jesus Christ. This is how he defeated sin, death and the devil and reconciled the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

In the resurrection of Jesus God has brought forth a new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17. God is at peace with the world because he sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20, 21, 22.

Salvation has been provided for all as a gift from God. It is because of the doing and the dying of Jesus that, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

You can quote scripture all day, but if you are still in unbelief, it doesn't do you any good!

Jerry Shugart
August 24th, 2015, 05:08 PM
When Christ died on the cross all of humanity died with him, Romans 6:6.

No, only those who have been baptized into Jesus Christ have died with the Lord Jesus:


"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death" (Ro.6:3-4).

What evidence can you give that all humanity has been baptized into Jesus Christ?

heir
August 24th, 2015, 05:57 PM
I never said that and I do not believe that!So you understand that they are different yet deny that Israel's day of atonement is future? :dizzy:




As usual you refuse to address what I said here:Oh, please. You brought up "atonement" and then cited a verse about redemption. You either can't read or you don't know what the verse you cited even says. In either case, you don't believe the scriptures. Peter knew full well the atonement for Israel is yet future or he would not have said what He did in Acts 3:19-21 KJV which is in one accord with 1 John 1:9 KJV, Hebrews 8:8-10 KJV) and confirmed by Paul in Romans 11:26-27 KJV). I believe what saith the scripture unto them and what saith the scripture unto me, a member of the Body of Christ (Romans 5:11 KJV).

heir
August 24th, 2015, 05:59 PM
Why do you run and hide from those verses?JS channeling tet

:chuckle:

heir
August 24th, 2015, 06:02 PM
No, I place the Bible upon a pedestal, unlike you.You don't believe any one "the Bible" and you know it!


In the KJV we see a translation


This translation is obviously wrong because


So the translators of the KJV made a huge blunder

I prefer to stick to the translation found here

Jerry Shugart
August 24th, 2015, 06:27 PM
Oh, please. You brought up "atonement" and then cited a verse about redemption.

So what? Do you deny that one of the blessings which which flow from the atonement is redemption? Those to whom Peter addressed in His first epistle had indeed received that blessing:


"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

You must not understand that here the words "precious blood of Christ" are referring to the atonement. Or perhaps you have not yet come to that understanding yet.

If you do understand it then give me your interpretation of the meaning of 1 Peter 1:18-19.

Of course you can't and that us why you want to change the subject from 1 Peter 1:18-19 to the "day of atonement."

SaulToPaul
August 25th, 2015, 06:16 AM
You must not understand that here the words "precious blood of Christ" are referring to the atonement. Or perhaps you have not yet come to that understanding yet.



Not so, passover lamb.
you know this

Jerry Shugart
August 25th, 2015, 09:15 AM
Not so, passover lamb.
you know this

The word "atonement" is often referred to as what happened at the Cross? Do you deny that?

And that is the way that I meant the word "atonement" when I said:


You must not understand that here the words "precious blood of Christ" are referring to the atonement.

Now will you continue to deny that these people to whom Peter addressed received blessings which flow from the Cross?:


"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

SaulToPaul
August 25th, 2015, 10:39 AM
Now will you continue to deny that these people to whom Peter addressed received blessings which flow from the Cross?:


"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

They were redeemed, and looked forward to having their sins blotted out. Just as the Law foreshadowed...


1. Passover
2. Unleavened Bread
3. First Fruits
4. Pentecost

5. Trumpets
6. Atonement
7. Tabernacles

Jerry Shugart
August 25th, 2015, 04:17 PM
They were redeemed, and looked forward to having their sins blotted out. Just as the Law foreshadowed...

The word "atonement" is often referred to as what happened at the Cross? Do you deny that?