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Angel4Truth
July 31st, 2015, 04:02 PM
‘Hope for Iowa': Iowa Churches to Distribute Bibles to Every Home in City (http://christiannews.net/2015/04/06/hope-4-iowa-iowa-churches-to-distribute-bibles-to-every-home-in-city/)


MARSHALLTOWN, Iowa — Nearly twenty Iowa churches will work together this weekend to distribute Bibles to every home in their city—an effort that they say may be the first of its kind.

First Baptist Church (FBC) of Marshalltown has announced that it, along with 17 other churches, will place 12,000 Bibles in 12,000 homes on Saturday, April 11.

Following a series of violent crimes in the city, Gerald Robison, pastor of First Baptist Church, suggested the idea during a pastors’ meeting earlier this year. He envisioned his congregation carrying out the mission, but other pastors immediately expressed interest and were eager to get involved.

“What made the other churches want to join so quickly is that our prayer time had recently focused on what appeared to be a dark cloud of gloom hovering over our community,” Robison said in a press release on Wednesday.

“There had been a murder, an attempted murder, arson and a shooting death in our area,” he explained further. “With all the bad news around us, the pastors had been praying over the town and we saw this project as a way of delivering hope.”

The project was soon named “Hope 4 You—Hope 4 Iowa.”

The pastors continue to meet together about the effort, mapping out the city and planning a strategy for the distribution. And while the project required raising $18,000 to purchase the thousands of Bibles, Robison said that anonymous donors came forward to cover the exact amount needed to carry out the mission.

In addition to distributing 10,000 English New Testaments, 1,500 Spanish Bibles and 100 Burmese Bibles will be freely given as well to ensure that everyone has a copy of the word of God in their language. 500 large print English Bibles were also ordered for those who may be visually challenged.

The congregations plan to distribute the Bibles this Saturday during a three-hour time frame, with hundreds of Christians volunteering to go door-to-door with the gifted copies.

“We agree on the important things—-and the most important is that we all agree Jesus is the source of real hope. And we want to share that with others who may need it the most,” Robison said of the diverse churches taking part in the effort. “And so, the local congregations, all willing, eager, faithful and ready to share, have worked hard to make ‘Hope 4 You—Hope 4 Iowa’ a reality.”

“It is the prayer of the pastors and members of the 17 participating local churches and the hundreds of volunteers that together, as believers in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, they will bring the message of hope found in Jesus Christ to every household in Marshalltown,” he said.

Wonderful news! Wouldn't it be wonderful if all churches did this?

gcthomas
July 31st, 2015, 04:27 PM
What would all those householders want another Bible for? And those few houses without a bible are probably not going to want one pushed on them.

Granite
July 31st, 2015, 07:33 PM
How about building some homes for the homeless?

gcthomas
August 1st, 2015, 03:28 AM
How about building some homes for the homeless?

Now that would be the Christian thing to do. :up: Spending millions on buying a plot of land to preserve a cross seems crass now.

What poor person wants another Bible when they are struggling to fees and house their families?

Angel4Truth
August 1st, 2015, 10:34 AM
How about building some homes for the homeless?

You mean like this one that was being built in a blighted area to help seniors by a baptist church?


n the hours after the funeral of Freddie Gray, a community center and apartment complex that local leaders expected to serve as a catalyst for the rebuilding of a long blighted East Baltimore neighborhood went up in flames.

The $16 million Mary Harvin Transformation Center was being built in a part of town where half the properties are vacant buildings or barren lots, where unemployment rates reach 25% and poverty and despair is rampant.

"Disheartened and bewildered" was how the Rev. Donte Hickman, pastor of East Baltimore's Southern Baptist Church, described feeling Tuesday as he surveyed the still-smoldering ruins of the centerpiece of a community rebuilding effort led by his church and a coalition of other congregations. http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/us/baltimore-community-center-fire/

gcthomas
August 1st, 2015, 11:07 AM
You mean like this one that was being built in a blighted area to help seniors by a baptist church?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/28/us/baltimore-community-center-fire/

Yup - they could have built some houses with the money spent keeping a cross up posting bibles. Priorities, though ... :idunno:

Daniel1769
August 1st, 2015, 11:38 AM
There are a lot of churches that do soul winning. Door to door preaching the gospel. Usually Baptist churches. My church doesn't really do this. I've tried to get a group organized but it isn't happening. It's very disappointing.

Angel4Truth
August 1st, 2015, 11:41 AM
There are a lot of churches that do soul winning. Door to door preaching the gospel. Usually Baptist churches. My church doesn't really do this. I've tried to get a group organized but it isn't happening. It's very disappointing.

I will pray for your ministry.

Daniel1769
August 1st, 2015, 11:42 AM
I will pray for your ministry.

Thanks Angel

Delmar
August 2nd, 2015, 06:44 AM
Yup - they could have built some houses with the money spent keeping a cross up posting bibles. Priorities, though ... :idunno:I am wondering if you criticize all charitable giving does not fit your idea of "humanitarian aide"?

Granite
August 2nd, 2015, 06:56 AM
I am wondering if you criticize all charitable giving does not fit your idea of "humanitarian aide"?

Feeding someone's actually helping them. Handing them a book accomplishes next to nothing.

gcthomas
August 2nd, 2015, 06:57 AM
I am wondering if you criticize all charitable giving does not fit your idea of "humanitarian aide"?

You think evangelism counts as charity work now? :idunno:

Delmar
August 2nd, 2015, 07:21 AM
You think evangelism counts as charity work now? :idunno:

Feeding someone's actually helping them. Handing them a book accomplishes next to nothing.
Do you criticize giving to a museum or to NPR?

Tambora
August 2nd, 2015, 07:23 AM
What would all those householders want another Bible for? Comes in real handy when another person wants to read at the same time you are reading. Don't all have to crowd around the same book.



And those few houses without a bible are probably not going to want one pushed on them.Yes, yes. There will be some that will not want the gift, and some will probably go on and on about better things that could have been done.


By the way, what gift did you get for your birthday?
Did you complain that you could have been given something bigger and better?

gcthomas
August 2nd, 2015, 07:59 AM
Comes in real handy when another person wants to read at the same time you are reading. Don't all have to crowd around the same book.

Yes, yes. There will be some that will not want the gift, and some will probably go on and on about better things that could have been done.

I am just intrigued than when the pastor looked at the troubles of the area he didn't think that he would get the whole congregation out to help the poor and distressed, thereby showing the love they have, but thought a book would be good to help evangelise.

Many of the poor and dispossessed can not read to the level necessary to understand the Bible.



By the way, what gift did you get for your birthday?
Did you complain that you could have been given something bigger and better?

I had a bar of chocolate, as I recall. I don't approve of high value gifts, and I encourage people with too much money to support a local charity. My wife's church runs a homeless charity, and I recommend that. They don't evangelise, they just demonstrate compassion as they support those who need a helping hand.

Tambora
August 2nd, 2015, 08:12 AM
I had a bar of chocolateSweet!

I hope you said "Thank you", and didn't complain that the time and money spent on providing you a chocolate bar could have been better spent.

Granite
August 2nd, 2015, 08:18 AM
Do you criticize giving to a museum or to NPR?

Two completely different issues. And how can a guy like you support donations to non-creationist museums or NPR with a straight face?

gcthomas
August 2nd, 2015, 08:22 AM
Sweet!

I hope you said "Thank you", and didn't complain that the time and money spent on providing you a chocolate bar could have been better spent.

If they had bought me a bible and implied that I was poor and disempowered and criminal because I hadn't accepted the Word, then I would have told them they should have saved their money and spent it on the soup kitchens and homeless shelters for the needy.

Did you expect me to be a grabbing materialist who wouldn't know a good deed if I saw one? Shame on you.

Delmar
August 2nd, 2015, 10:57 AM
If they had bought me a bible and implied that I was poor and disempowered and criminal because I hadn't accepted the Word, then I would have told them they should have saved their money and spent it on the soup kitchens and homeless shelters for the needy.

Did you expect me to be a grabbing materialist who wouldn't know a good deed if I saw one? Shame on you.

I am pretty sure that what you infered is the problem.

Delmar
August 2nd, 2015, 11:03 AM
Two completely different issues. Not at all. Since the case could be made that there are more important charities to give to.
And how can a guy like you support donations to non-creationist museums or NPR with a straight face?
You must have a pretty low opinion of me if you believe I would have a problem with you suporting an art museum or a radio station that promotes your views.

Granite
August 2nd, 2015, 02:53 PM
Not at all. Since the case could be made that there are more important charities to give to.

I'd say in general there are far, far more pressing needs than handing out Bibles to people in the United States of America. How much did each Bible cost, I wonder? How many meals? How many diapers? How many gas or rent payments?

It's as though many of you deliberately go as far out of your way as possible to do the exact opposite of what you were specifically told to do.


You must have a pretty low opinion of me if you believe I would have a problem with you suporting an art museum or a radio station that promotes your views.

Del, depending on the "view" I'm supporting you'd probably have a conniption fit.:chuckle:

Nice to know museums that take evolution as fact and the left-wing bastion of NPR are aces in your book, though. It's a load off.:cheers:

Delmar
August 2nd, 2015, 05:48 PM
I'd say in general there are far, far more pressing needs than handing out Bibles to people in the United States of America. How much did each Bible cost, I wonder? How many meals? How many diapers? How many gas or rent payments?

It's as though many of you deliberately go as far out of your way as possible to do the exact opposite of what you were specifically told to do.



Del, depending on the "view" I'm supporting you'd probably have a conniption fit.:chuckle:

Nice to know museums that take evolution as fact and the left-wing bastion of NPR are aces in your book, though. It's a load off.:cheers:
While it is true that I do despise NPR and may not have enormous respect for the causes you give to, I have never given you reason to think I care how you spend your money. Stop being a jerk!:idunno:

zoo22
August 2nd, 2015, 06:27 PM
I'd say in general there are far, far more pressing needs than handing out Bibles to people in the United States of America. How much did each Bible cost, I wonder? How many meals? How many diapers? How many gas or rent payments?

It cost $18,000 for 12,000 Bibles. Not too crazy. Whatever. If they want to put a Bible on every doorstep in Marshalltown, Iowa, that's their choice.

I figure plenty of the same people praising this program would have a head-spinning fit if a free Quran was distributed to every home, but that sort of hypocrisy is nothing new.

The thing is, free Bibles are already easily available for anyone. Gideons has given away over 2 billion Bibles. I can throw a stone and it'll probably hit a free Bible.

Granite
August 2nd, 2015, 06:43 PM
It cost $18,000 for 12,000 Bibles. Not too crazy. Whatever. If they want to put a Bible on every doorstep in Marshalltown, Iowa, that's their choice.

I figure plenty of the same people praising this program people would have a head-spinning fit if a free Quuran was distributed to every home, but that sort of hypocrisy is nothing new.

The thing is, free Bibles are already easily available for anyone. Gideons has given away over 2 billion Bibles. I can throw a stone and it'll probably hit a free Bible.

Free from the Gideons and you can get a free one from the LDS site, too--at least you used to be able to.

Eighteen grand. How many families could that have fed? Housed? Clothed? What a total waste.

Granite
August 2nd, 2015, 06:44 PM
While it is true that I do despise NPR and may not have enormous respect for the causes you give to, I have never given you reason to think I care how you spend your money. Stop being a jerk!:idunno:

You got your nose bent out of joint for whatever reason and I don't really think we're talking about the same things at all. As usual.

Delmar
August 3rd, 2015, 03:05 AM
Free from the Gideons and you can get a free one from the LDS site, too--at least you used to be able to.

Eighteen grand. How many families could that have fed? Housed? Clothed? What a total waste.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Give a man the word of God, feed him for eternity.

gcthomas
August 3rd, 2015, 03:08 AM
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Give a man the word of God, feed him for eternity.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Give a man a fishing net, feed his children for years. Give him a book when he has a low reading age, feed his fire for 20 minutes.

Granite
August 3rd, 2015, 06:47 AM
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Give a man the word of God, feed him for eternity.

Feel-good self-righteous malarkey. Eighteen grand down the drain.

You seem to be saying that given a choice between feeding someone who's hungry or handing him a book you'd hand him a book.

patrick jane
August 3rd, 2015, 07:04 AM
Feel-good self-righteous malarkey. Eighteen grand down the drain.

You seem to be saying that given a choice between feeding someone who's hungry or handing him a book you'd hand him a book.

books are edible -

gcthomas
August 3rd, 2015, 07:05 AM
books are edible -

In which case I entirely approve of their distribution to the poor. :carryon:

Granite
August 3rd, 2015, 08:12 AM
http://www.iowapolicyproject.org/2014Research/140226-COL.html

I don't see "but gee we need Bibles" anywhere in here.

Tambora
August 3rd, 2015, 08:51 AM
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Give a man the word of God, feed him for eternity.
:thumb:

Luke 4 KJV
(4) And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Granite
August 3rd, 2015, 08:51 AM
Something tells me "Starving's not so bad" won't be a compelling tactic for dealing with the needy.

The Horn
August 3rd, 2015, 12:46 PM
What about all the NON-CHRISTIANS in this city ? Surely there must be a fair number of these . Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists , etc as well as atheists and agnostics .
Ironically , many atheists and agnostics know the Bible better than Christians . I wouldn't be surprised if many of the non-christians in this town have Bibles . But isn't it rather patronizing to hand Bibles out to them ?

Delmar
August 3rd, 2015, 01:02 PM
Feel-good self-righteous malarkey. Eighteen grand down the drain.

You seem to be saying that given a choice between feeding someone who's hungry or handing him a book you'd hand him a book.

Nice try putting words in my mouth.

Delmar
August 3rd, 2015, 01:04 PM
What about all the NON-CHRISTIANS in this city ? Surely there must be a fair number of these . Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists , etc as well as atheists and agnostics .
Ironically , many atheists and agnostics know the Bible better than Christians . I wouldn't be surprised if many of the non-christians in this town have Bibles . But isn't it rather patronizing to hand Bibles out to them ?

I rather doubt if they are handing them out at gunpoint.

The Horn
August 3rd, 2015, 01:12 PM
Of course they aren't , Delmar . I just think it's patronizing to the non-christians .

Granite
August 3rd, 2015, 01:16 PM
Nice try putting words in my mouth.

Me: "Eighteen grand. How many families could that have fed? Housed? Clothed? What a total waste."

You: "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Give a man the word of God, feed him for eternity."

If I'm misconstruing what you said let me know how.

Delmar
August 3rd, 2015, 01:52 PM
Me: "Eighteen grand. How many families could that have fed? Housed? Clothed? What a total waste."

You: "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Give a man the word of God, feed him for eternity."

If I'm misconstruing what you said let me know how.

Never in all my years at TOL have I suggested that evangelism shoud happen instead of helping the poor and you know I would not.

Granite
August 3rd, 2015, 02:01 PM
Never in all my years at TOL have I suggested that evangelism shoud happen instead of helping the poor and you know I would not.

So are you agreeing this eighteen grand was essentially a waste of money that could've been better spent?

Delmar
August 3rd, 2015, 02:38 PM
So are you agreeing this eighteen grand was essentially a waste of money that could've been better spent?

I do not agree that it has to be an either, or situation.

Granite
August 3rd, 2015, 02:41 PM
I do not agree that it has to be an either, or situation.

Well yeah, actually, it was in this case. These people could've spent their time energy and money on literally anything else. They had a chance to help the needy, and blew it. This whole fiasco's a pretty nifty way of summing up what's wrong with American Christianity: Even when earnest and eager to help, the well-intentioned among you manage to somehow screw it up.

Delmar
August 3rd, 2015, 02:44 PM
Of course they aren't , Delmar . I just think it's patronizing to the non-christians .

Of course you do.

Delmar
August 3rd, 2015, 03:24 PM
Well yeah, actually, it was in this case. These people could've spent their time energy and money on literally anything else. They had a chance to help the needy, and blew it. This whole fiasco's a pretty nifty way of summing up what's wrong with American Christianity: Even when earnest and eager to help, the well-intentioned among you manage to somehow screw it up.

Why don't you just admit that you have no clue what the individuals who who raised this $18,000 do to help those in need?

Granite
August 3rd, 2015, 03:27 PM
Why don't you just admit that you have no clue what the individuals who who raised this $18,000 do to help those in need?

They just wasted this money. Food, clothes, diapers, bills--oh, no. No, instead they decided to give people (who already live in houses) the world's most common work of literature.

Uh, congrats, guys. You go. You really go.

journey
August 3rd, 2015, 03:29 PM
Isaiah 55:10-11 KJV 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God's Word is powerful and always accomplishes His will and purpose. It never returns void. Distributing God's Word is a very kind and compassionate thing to do.

Delmar
August 3rd, 2015, 03:40 PM
They just wasted this money. Food, clothes, diapers, bills--oh, no. No, instead they decided to give people (who already live in houses) the world's most common work of literature.

Uh, congrats, guys. You go. You really go.

I get that you consider the Gospel message a waste.

keypurr
August 3rd, 2015, 11:06 PM
If they do not read the Bible thy have now why do they think they will read the new one? I think the money could have been spent better.

Most homes have at least one Bible. It would be better to buy less and spend more time teaching the folks in the homes what the Bible teaches.

Stuu
August 4th, 2015, 02:57 AM
Wonderful news! Wouldn't it be wonderful if all churches did this?
Why not leave the trees in the ground?

Stuart

Delmar
August 4th, 2015, 03:31 AM
Why not leave the trees in the ground?

Stuart

just plant more.

Stuu
August 4th, 2015, 03:39 AM
just plant more.
So you see mass bible printing as a carbon capture technology?

I suppose that could be a positive outcome.

Stuart

Granite
August 4th, 2015, 06:48 AM
I get that you consider the Gospel message a waste.

If someone's starving or needs to make their rent or their babies need diapers handing them a Bible accomplishes absolutely, totally nothing. This group just took almost twenty grand and flushed it down the toilet. Their self-righteousness is matched by their utter stupidity.

King cobra
August 4th, 2015, 07:26 AM
I gotta wonder. How much does Planned PareTheHood spend on covering up their lies?

Delmar
August 4th, 2015, 04:37 PM
Feeding someone's actually helping them. Handing them a book accomplishes next to nothing.

That book has changed countless lives!

Delmar
August 4th, 2015, 04:38 PM
You think evangelism counts as charity work now? :idunno:

Absolutely!

Angel4Truth
August 4th, 2015, 04:42 PM
They just wasted this money. Food, clothes, diapers, bills--oh, no. No, instead they decided to give people (who already live in houses) the world's most common work of literature.

Uh, congrats, guys. You go. You really go.

You go too! You know instead of sitting here being negative day in and day out, creating misery, you could cancel your internet and use that money to feed a homeless person, you know do something of more value with your money, or are you just protesting too much?

glorydaz
August 4th, 2015, 04:47 PM
You go too! You know instead of sitting here being negative day in and day out, creating misery, you could cancel your internet and use that money to feel a homeless person, you know do something of more value with your money, or are you just protesting too much?


:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

glorydaz
August 4th, 2015, 04:49 PM
That book has changed countless lives!

Amen....and given eternal life to countless, I might add. :thumb:

quip
August 4th, 2015, 11:29 PM
You go too! You know instead of sitting here being negative day in and day out, creating misery, you could cancel your internet and use that money to feed a homeless person, you know do something of more value with your money, or are you just protesting too much?

Says the ToL Gold Member ad hom troll!

Stuu
August 5th, 2015, 12:52 AM
That book has changed countless lives!
Indeed. Just imagine how much less angst, guilt, persecution and social injustice (especially towards women) there would have been had Abrahamism never been invented.

Stuart

Stuu
August 5th, 2015, 12:58 AM
You go too! You know instead of sitting here being negative day in and day out, creating misery, you could cancel your internet and use that money to feed a homeless person, you know do something of more value with your money, or are you just protesting too much?
The internet - Granite's, or anyone's - is a means that has the potential to help people come together for the betterment of everyone. Just by challenging the mindless dogmas here it could be argued that Granite is improving the human condition in some way or other.

On the other hand the giveaway bibles are an act of self-righteousness; really it's an act of collective bullying.

Stuart

Granite
August 5th, 2015, 06:54 AM
That book has changed countless lives!

Giving it away to people who already have a home is a waste of energy time and money. These self-righteous know-nothings had a chance to do some actual good in the world. They didn't. Eighteen grand: Meals, roofs, bills, diapers; tangible effects on the needy.

A total, total, embarrassing waste. Thanks for nothing, folks.

Angel4Truth
August 5th, 2015, 02:25 PM
The internet - Granite's, or anyone's - is a means that has the potential to help people come together for the betterment of everyone. Just by challenging the mindless dogmas here it could be argued that Granite is improving the human condition in some way or other.


Just by providing bibles, it could be argued that those churches are improving human conditions.

Granite is the one complaining about the money not spent on feeding people, well let him be the first to show example by getting rid of his internet and feeding them with the money he spends on it. :)

Angel4Truth
August 5th, 2015, 02:28 PM
Says the ToL Gold Member ad hom troll!

You are bashing a much appreciated gift. What was that about trolling again? Seems the loudest complainers of what they didnt pay for - assume much about others.

quip
August 5th, 2015, 02:36 PM
You are bashing a much appreciated gift. What was that about trolling again? Seems the loudest complainers of what they didnt pay for - assume much about others.

Given the prior context and current "gift" revelation....that's supremely rich coming from you! :chuckle:

You don't seem to think prior to opening your gob.
Quit giving credence to the typical blonde stereotype. :shadowmd:

Angel4Truth
August 5th, 2015, 02:38 PM
Given the prior context and current "gift" revelation....that's sepremely rich coming from you! :chuckle:

You don't seem to think prior to opening your gob.
Quit giving credence to the typical blonde stereotype. :shadowmd:

You are an idiot and nothing but a troll.

Delmar
August 5th, 2015, 02:38 PM
Giving it away to people who already have a home is a waste of energy time and money.

You believe that but you don't know that!



These self-righteous know-nothings had a chance to do some actual good in the world. They didn't. You don't know that! You have no idea what the individuals involved did and do to help the needy. Claiming you know they did nothing shows you to be a liar.


Eighteen grand: Meals, roofs, bills, diapers; tangible effects on the needy.

A total, total, embarrassing waste. Thanks for nothing, folks.I am not slightly embarrassed by what these Christians did, and neither are you. In fact, you seem to be delighted at the opportunity to trash them!

quip
August 5th, 2015, 02:40 PM
You are an idiot and nothing but a troll.

Then I guess we both share much in common!

Granite
August 5th, 2015, 02:40 PM
You believe that but you don't know that!

Sure I do. Or, put it another way: Is it better to give to someone with a home, or to a homeless person?

Stop acting dense or stubborn just because it's me.


You don't know that! You have no idea what the individuals involved did and do to help the needy. Claiming you know they did nothing shows you to be a liar.

They flushed about twenty grand down the toilet.

Angel4Truth
August 5th, 2015, 02:42 PM
Sure I do.

You know what other things all those churches combined do to help others? Tell us. Tell us also how you know.

Tell us also how many people there own their homes, rent their homes, are living inside someone elses home, etc.. break it all down o master who knows all....

Angel4Truth
August 5th, 2015, 02:43 PM
They flushed about twenty grand down the toilet.

And that is your sad opinion only, show us how its done better with your own money.

journey
August 5th, 2015, 05:20 PM
Giving food, clothing, and shelter to the needy is wonderful, but this only addresses temporary needs. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. Sharing God's Word with others addresses eternal needs. Some in this thread are lost, so it's very kind to share the Word of God with them. Many Christians try to address both temporary and eternal needs of others.

Delmar
August 6th, 2015, 12:20 AM
Sure I do. Or, put it another way: Is it better to give to someone with a home, or to a homeless person?

Stop acting dense or stubborn just because it's me.



They flushed about twenty grand down the toilet.

Twenty grand is chump change if it led one person to read that book and know the love of Jesus Christ!

Not only that, how many thousands of ministries that feed the hungry, house the homeless, provide medicine for the sick, the have been started and run by people who were inspired by that book?

Stuu
August 6th, 2015, 02:38 AM
Just by providing bibles, it could be argued that those churches are improving human conditions.
Here is the start of a list of essential human needs:

oxygen, water, warmth, food, shelter, social contact, physical safety...

Where down this list would you place the human need to know that you were born bad but are required to heal yourself by accepting a human sacrifice that involved nailing an ancient Jew to a tree?


Granite is the one complaining about the money not spent on feeding people, well let him be the first to show example by getting rid of his internet and feeding them with the money he spends on it. :)
If everyone did that it would be a disaster. The price of food would rise beyond the hope of the poorest to feed themselves. Much better would be to provide healthy chickens for breeding and eggs, grain for planting, and education. How much of that could have been sourced for $20,000?

Stuart

gcthomas
August 6th, 2015, 02:38 AM
people who were inspired by that book?

Not by the book, but by the churches and society that wield the book.

Did you become a Christian because you read the book? I strongly suspect not. You would have been surrounded by people who offered social acceptance and familial reward for accepting their way of life and that included revering the book. The inspiration of the text most likely came after.

It is the selfless actions of Christians that will attract new followers, not the posting of bibles,which is a worthless, if harmless, action.

Delmar
August 6th, 2015, 07:13 AM
Not by the book, but by the churches and society that wield the book.


Pretty hard to separate the massage of the book from the book don't you think?


Did you become a Christian because you read the book?

Some people have done exactly that! CS Lewis and Lee Strobel to name two.


I strongly suspect not. You would have been surrounded by people who offered social acceptance and familial reward for accepting their way of life and that included revering the book. The inspiration of the text most likely came after.

It is the selfless actions of Christians that will attract new followers, not the posting of bibles,which is a worthless, if harmless, action.

There is strong evidence that access to a Bible is in important part of the equation in many Christian conversion stories.

Granite
August 6th, 2015, 07:25 AM
Twenty grand is chump change if it led one person to read that book and know the love of Jesus Christ!

Not only that, how many thousands of ministries that feed the hungry, house the homeless, provide medicine for the sick, the have been started and run by people who were inspired by that book?

We're not talking about anyone else other than these particular dopes who decided to waste their resources.

Delmar
August 6th, 2015, 08:04 AM
We're not talking about anyone else other than these particular dopes who decided to waste their resources.

Your premise that they wasted their money is false.

Granite
August 6th, 2015, 08:13 AM
Your premise that they wasted their money is false.

Given a choice between a sandwich for a homeless vet and a Bible for a homeowner, they chose the Bible. That's screwed up, plain and simple.

journey
August 6th, 2015, 03:59 PM
Given a choice between a sandwich for a homeless vet and a Bible for a homeowner, they chose the Bible. That's screwed up, plain and simple.

Both can be done. Don't give any of your money for the Bibles and go feed all the people you want to.

Delmar
August 6th, 2015, 04:33 PM
Given a choice between a sandwich for a homeless vet and a Bible for a homeowner, they chose the Bible. That's screwed up, plain and simple.

You keep saying they did nothing to help the homeless but have no idea if this is true! You are a blatant liar!

annabenedetti
August 6th, 2015, 04:58 PM
You keep saying they did nothing to help the homeless but have no idea if this is true! You are a blatant liar!

He's not a liar, Delmar. You may not agree with him, but the fact remains that they spent the money on Bibles and not on sandwiches. Even if they bought sandwiches in addition to the bibles, the money spent on bibles was money that wasn't spent on sandwiches.

quip
August 6th, 2015, 05:19 PM
He's not a liar, Delmar. You may not agree with him, but the fact remains that they spent the money on Bibles and not on sandwiches. Even if they bought sandwiches in addition to the bibles, the money spent on bibles was money that wasn't spent on sandwiches.

This reminds me of a conversation TH and I were discussing concerning a Hitchens' quote where (paraphrasing) Hitchens claims Christians are more content to advance their religious cause rather than eliminate the human suffering before them.

This seems an apt example.

Delmar
August 6th, 2015, 06:13 PM
He's not a liar, Delmar. You may not agree with him, but the fact remains that they spent the money on Bibles and not on sandwiches. Even if they bought sandwiches in addition to the bibles, the money spent on bibles was money that wasn't spent on sandwiches.

He did lie. Don't defend him. Saying they bought Bibles instead of helping the needy is something he said multiple times in several different ways. Saying that Buying Bibles is a waste is also untrue but is not a specific lie since he believes that to be true.

annabenedetti
August 6th, 2015, 06:27 PM
He did lie. Don't defend him. Saying they bought Bibles instead of helping the needy is something he said multiple times in several different ways. Saying that Buying Bibles is a waste is also untrue but is not a specific lie since he believes that to be true.

He didn't lie. What he said was that the money spent on the bibles could have been spent to buy food/necessities. And that's a true statement.

They did actually buy bibles instead of food.

It's obvious he doesn't agree with you, but that doesn't make him a liar.

zoo22
August 6th, 2015, 08:04 PM
Personally, I think the $18,000 could have been much better spent. Free Bibles are available all over the place for people who want them, and undoubtedly, for many people, they were unwanted. I don't know about you folks, but I don't like religious people knocking on my door with literature, despite that I know they're being nice and trying to save my soul.

But I'm sure lots of people were happy to have someone come by to give them a free Bible and pray with them.

All that said, it's their $18,000 to spend. As Granite's said in the past about a somewhat similar situation (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://theologyonline.com/forums//showthread.php?t=37181) (now purged thread about a "green" hotel giving out free copies of Al Gore's book*):

http://s6.postimg.org/wd2t7katd/TOL_Granite_Its_Their_Dime.png

That's pretty much what I think of this.

But also, as misdirected as I think it is, the purpose of the churches giving out the Bibles wasn't really about helping the homeless or vets or the hungry with sandwiches (though maybe it should have been); it was response to a rash of crime and what they thought was a general "gloom" in the city, and the purpose of giving away the Bibles was to provide "hope."

Now, while I think there are much better ways to do that, and that instead of Bibles, $18,000 could go a long way to say, setting up some sort of real community program, it does make sense for a Church to think that a free Bible and door-to-door praying is a perfect way to spread positivity and hope.

My hope is that they're doing more than giving out Bibles.





* In addition to the free Gideon's Bible, not instead of.

Granite
August 7th, 2015, 07:03 AM
You keep saying they did nothing to help the homeless but have no idea if this is true! You are a blatant liar!

Your hysteria and general dislike of me's keeping you from even reading or understanding my posts and others here have already clarified the obvious for me.

Grow up and actually pay attention to what I say.

Granite
August 7th, 2015, 07:06 AM
This reminds me of a conversation TH and I were discussing concerning a Hitchens' quote where (paraphrasing) Hitchens claims Christians are more content to advance their religious cause rather than eliminate the human suffering before them.

This seems an apt example.

Couldn't agree more. One of the reasons Hitch detested Mother Teresa was because she was a big fan of poverty, not an advocate for the poor. It's the misery that became her lifeblood.

This entire situation just shows how backward Christianity's thinking can be, even with the very best intentions (cruel tender mercies, anyone?) Eighteen grand--down payment on a homeless shelter, or a halfway house. Or food. Or paid bills. Or cribs and diapers and formula. None of that happened. They gave books to people who already have a roof over their head.

Angel4Truth
August 7th, 2015, 08:45 AM
He's not a liar, Delmar. You may not agree with him, but the fact remains that they spent the money on Bibles and not on sandwiches. Even if they bought sandwiches in addition to the bibles, the money spent on bibles was money that wasn't spent on sandwiches.

He still lied, he acts like they chose between only 2 options. That article says nothing of the sort and he, you or anyone else here cant tell us what else they do with their money.

Its like saying if you went to the movies tonight, you chose not to feed a homeless person.

That would be a lie.

annabenedetti
August 7th, 2015, 09:13 AM
He still lied, he acts like they chose between only 2 options. That article says nothing of the sort and he, you or anyone else here cant tell us what else they do with their money.

No. He didn't lie.

And you and Delmar are overreaching and overreacting.


Its like saying if you went to the movies tonight, you chose not to feed a homeless person.

That would be a lie.

No. It's not.

You're equating movies with Bibles. Entertainment with evangelization. It doesn't work.

Angel4Truth
August 7th, 2015, 09:16 AM
No. He didn't lie.

And you and Delmar are overreaching and overreacting.



No. It's not.

You're equating movies with Bibles. Entertainment with evangelization. It doesn't work.

It doesnt work either to pretend this is an either or situation, at best the arguments pretending to know what they do is disingenuous.

He did lie, why you support that is a mystery. Are you still catholic btw, i notice your faith statement says other now.

Would it be a lie if i said that the RCC chooses to have decadent art over feeding the needy?

annabenedetti
August 7th, 2015, 09:24 AM
It doesnt work either to pretend this is an either or situation, at best the arguments pretending to know what they do is disingenuous.

No one needs to pretend to know what they did with the money they used to buy Bibles. They bought Bibles. It's pretty straightforward.


He did lie, why you support that is a mystery.No. He didn't lie. You and Delmar just say he did.

I'm not going to get sucked into an endless vortex of argument, either. I've said what I meant to say.

Angel4Truth
August 7th, 2015, 09:30 AM
No one needs to pretend to know what they did with the money they used to buy Bibles. They bought Bibles. It's pretty straightforward.

No. He didn't lie. You and Delmar just say he did.

I'm not going to get sucked into an endless vortex of argument, either. I've said what I meant to say.

yeah, i guess you support and choose to starve people each time you spend anything on anything other than a basic need. And granite chooses not to feed people also when he spends his money on the internet, instead of helping the needy - since thats not a lie and you and he spend money on other things besides charity work.

You have failed to respond to my questions. Easy to see why.

quip
August 7th, 2015, 02:27 PM
yeah, i guess you support and choose to starve people each time you spend anything on anything other than a basic need. And granite chooses not to feed people also when he spends his money on the internet, instead of helping the needy - since thats not a lie and you and he spend money on other things besides charity work.

You have failed to respond to my questions. Easy to see why.

Then again, she didn't pronounce to the entire town she lives in that she's gonna spend 18 grand handing out to all citizens, 'Moby Dick' ...all for the self-glorifying fight against illiteracy.

There's that.........

Delmar
August 7th, 2015, 07:05 PM
No one needs to pretend to know what they did with the money they used to buy Bibles. They bought Bibles. It's pretty straightforward.

No. He didn't lie. You and Delmar just say he did.

I'm not going to get sucked into an endless vortex of argument, either. I've said what I meant to say.

You say it like buying Bibles is a bad thing

quip
August 7th, 2015, 07:10 PM
You say it like buying Bibles is a bad thing

Well, give a man a fish...he eats for a day.

-- Give a man a bible...he doesn't. :Plain:

Tell me that's a good thing Delmar?

Nazaroo
August 7th, 2015, 07:55 PM
Give a troll a computer... he trolls for a day.

Give a troll a membership ...he trolls for years.

I expected cgthomas to be the first negative response post.
He was the first post. Followed by thing 2.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1230958393/thing1_and_thing2.gif

Ban these dorks.

kmoney
August 7th, 2015, 08:01 PM
Personally, I think the $18,000 could have been much better spent. Free Bibles are available all over the place for people who want them, and undoubtedly, for many people, they were unwanted. I don't know about you folks, but I don't like religious people knocking on my door with literature, despite that I know they're being nice and trying to save my soul.

But I'm sure lots of people were happy to have someone come by to give them a free Bible and pray with them.

All that said, it's their $18,000 to spend. As Granite's said in the past about a somewhat similar situation (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://theologyonline.com/forums//showthread.php?t=37181) (now purged thread about a "green" hotel giving out free copies of Al Gore's book*):

That's pretty much what I think of this.

But also, as misdirected as I think it is, the purpose of the churches giving out the Bibles wasn't really about helping the homeless or vets or the hungry with sandwiches (though maybe it should have been); it was response to a rash of crime and what they thought was a general "gloom" in the city, and the purpose of giving away the Bibles was to provide "hope."

Now, while I think there are much better ways to do that, and that instead of Bibles, $18,000 could go a long way to say, setting up some sort of real community program, it does make sense for a Church to think that a free Bible and door-to-door praying is a perfect way to spread positivity and hope.

My hope is that they're doing more than giving out Bibles.

Thank you. Good post. This is about how I feel about this.

There's little point in the two sides arguing about this. If you don't see value in someone reading the bible then obviously you are going to see this project as a waste of time and resources. If you see value in someone reading the bible then you will not see it as a waste.

I'm not going to accuse them of wasting their time and money (unsurprisingly probably) and I think it's unfair to accuse them of not caring about people, etc. We all make decisions with our money that could be better spent by helping others. Do we really want to start a battle of pointing fingers?

Having said that, I do think this endeavour is misguided for a number of reasons that were already stated. How many of these people already had a bible? How much help does handing out a bible really do? Could there not be a better connection if you give out some food and an invitation to church where the scripture can be given in a better context and with more guidance? Or even a free voucher for a bible if they choose to take one. Then you are only spending money on bibles that are wanted and have a better chance of getting read. If this was about crime and giving hope then plan prayer walks around the city. Provide a presence. I think people will be drawn to God more if they are shown love in more practical ways than just handing out a bible.

Delmar
August 8th, 2015, 04:26 AM
Well, give a man a fish...he eats for a day.

-- Give a man a bible...he doesn't. :Plain:

Tell me that's a good thing Delmar?

What is wrong with giving him a Bible and teaching him to fish :idunno:

Stuu
August 8th, 2015, 06:29 AM
What is wrong with giving him a Bible and teaching him to fish :idunno:
The bible wouldn't work as a sinker.

Maybe he could throw the bible at the fish and hope.

There! Christians giving hope to the hungry!

Stuart

Delmar
August 8th, 2015, 11:15 AM
My hope is that they're doing more than giving out Bibles.



Me too.

quip
August 8th, 2015, 01:15 PM
What is wrong with giving him a Bible and teaching him to fish :idunno:

That's perfect....and perfectly not the case here. (Granite's point)

Delmar
August 8th, 2015, 07:19 PM
That's perfect....and perfectly not the case here. (Granite's point)

You don't know that and neither does Granite. Which is my entire objection to Granite's point.

Granite
August 8th, 2015, 07:41 PM
You don't know that and neither does Granite. Which is my entire objection to Granite's point.

Del, your objection is usually to me in general.

bybee
August 8th, 2015, 07:50 PM
Del, your objection is usually to me in general.

And, are you going to take that to heart and do some introspection?

Granite
August 8th, 2015, 09:17 PM
And, are you going to take that to heart and do some introspection?

In this case, no.

Stuu
August 8th, 2015, 09:18 PM
And, are you going to take that to heart and do some introspection?
What, on the suggestion of a person who believes in conspiracy theories of invisible friends running the universe?

Stuart

patrick jane
August 8th, 2015, 09:23 PM
i'm sure another group went to all the homeless where they are and fed them and ministered to them - samwiches and the word

patrick jane
August 8th, 2015, 09:25 PM
folks here are acting like nobody has lunchmeat or gives food and spent every penny on Bibles for for the safe and comfortable with housing

Stuu
August 8th, 2015, 09:44 PM
i'm sure another group went to all the homeless where they are and fed them and ministered to them - samwiches and the word
If the group promised not to mention the 'Word', which is immoral nonsense, then I would happily contribute to the feast.

Stuart

Nazaroo
August 9th, 2015, 05:15 AM
What, on the suggestion of a person who believes in conspiracy theories of invisible friends running the universe?

Stuart

Whats the alternative?

Oh yeah: Earth is a mining-town for the aliens. They're not invisible.

When we predictably gather all the precious metals into central locations
like Switzerland and Fort Knox, they will wipe us out and take the gold,
platinum, paladium, and refined uranium, plutonium, etc.

Thanks suckers!

http://thespiritscience.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/aliens.jpg

Then they'll start all over again, planting humans to do their dirty work,
and come back in 5,000 years to collect more gold.

Nazaroo
August 9th, 2015, 05:17 AM
If the group promised not to mention the 'Word',
which is immoral nonsense, then I would happily contribute to the feast.

Stuart


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-OopVd09Gw68/UstNwtquuLI/AAAAAAAAsiM/5y8EL1d-z3U/s1600/The+Grinch+Roast+Beast.jpg

Nazaroo
August 9th, 2015, 05:22 AM
folks here are acting like nobody has lunchmeat or gives food and spent every penny on Bibles for for the safe and comfortable with housing

They're called trolls.

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/9/93998/2688485-1800676093-il_34.jpg

They look like this and talk like they have lungs and vocal chords in their colon.

http://files.sharenator.com/95420.jpg

Angel4Truth
August 9th, 2015, 10:49 AM
The bible wouldn't work as a sinker.

Maybe he could throw the bible at the fish and hope.

There! Christians giving hope to the hungry!

Stuart

Or maybe the man with the bible will read it, and trust God who will provide.