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Grosnick Marowbe
August 18th, 2015, 05:40 PM
Nanja



Do you believe those scriptures are the Word of God?


I do 2 Tim. 3:16!

~~~~~

I'll ignore that question. Why? Because I choose to.

Nanja
August 18th, 2015, 05:48 PM
I'll ignore that question. Why? Because I choose to.


Rather, it was according to God's Will. :Plain:

~~~~~

Grosnick Marowbe
August 18th, 2015, 06:07 PM
Rather, it was according to God's Will. :Plain:

~~~~~

Nope. We all have a free choice. Accept for you nutty, "false doctrine
spreading hyper-Calvinists!" If I choose to eat an ice cream instead
of a candy bar, is that God's will? Do you really think God cares which
dessert I choose?

Grosnick Marowbe
August 18th, 2015, 06:11 PM
In the Old Testament, God wanted the Israelite's to follow Him instead
of their idols (they chose their idols sometimes) but, they chose their
idols instead. That shows that they had a freewill.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 18th, 2015, 06:13 PM
God doesn't want "Robot/Puppets" to follow Him. It's by choice.

beloved57
August 18th, 2015, 07:11 PM
God doesn't want "Robot/Puppets" to follow Him. It's by choice.

Invalid comments !

Grosnick Marowbe
August 18th, 2015, 07:30 PM
Invalid comments !

Invalid poster.

Robert Pate
August 19th, 2015, 08:32 AM
Invalid comments !

There will not be any invalid comments in the judgment.

When you hear the words... "Depart from me I never knew you".

They will be very valid.

beloved57
August 19th, 2015, 08:47 AM
There will not be any invalid comments in the judgment.

When you hear the words... "Depart from me I never knew you".

They will be very valid.
You make plenty of invalid comments now !

Ask Mr. Religion
August 19th, 2015, 12:48 PM
God doesn't want "Robot/Puppets" to follow Him. It's by choice.
Why did you choose wisely and not your neighbor?

AMR

Robert Pate
August 19th, 2015, 01:17 PM
Why did you choose wisely and not your neighbor?

AMR

Because his neighbor loved his sins and not Christ.

Ask Mr. Religion
August 19th, 2015, 01:27 PM
Because his neighbor loved his sins and not Christ.

So you were more discerning than your neighbor? Why?

AMR

Robert Pate
August 19th, 2015, 01:33 PM
So you were more discerning than your neighbor? Why?

AMR

Who knows?

Why are some people Democrats and others are Republicans?

People do have the ability to make choices, whether you believe it or not.

Ask Mr. Religion
August 19th, 2015, 01:38 PM
Who knows?

Why are some people Democrats and others are Republicans?

People do have the ability to make choices, whether you believe it or not.Oh, I do firmly believe we have the ability to choose and that we choose according to our greatest inclinations when we so choose.

So, for you, it is just random then? Why not try to be a wee bit introspective and discover that something more closer to the truth lies behind all these so-called "random", "who knows" thoughts of yours?

AMR

beloved57
August 19th, 2015, 01:49 PM
Who knows?

Why are some people Democrats and others are Republicans?

People do have the ability to make choices, whether you believe it or not.

Not Spiritual choices, they don't have the ability to obey and or please God while in the flesh Rom 8:8 !

Robert Pate
August 19th, 2015, 01:53 PM
Oh, I do firmly believe we have the ability to choose and that we choose according to our greatest inclinations when we so choose.

So, for you, it is just random then? Why not try to be a wee bit introspective and discover that something more closer to the truth lies behind all these so-called "random", "who knows" thoughts of yours?

AMR

I never ceased to be amazed at some of the people that I know of that have become Christians, including myself.

I was probably voted the most likely to go to hell.

But I heard the call and answered with a big yes.

God's Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. They either come or they don't, its their decision.

"Today if you will hear his voice, harden not your heart" Hebrews 3:15.

"So we see that some could not enter in because of unbelief" Hebrews 3:19.

Robert Pate
August 19th, 2015, 01:57 PM
Not Spiritual choices, they don't have the ability to obey and or please God while in the flesh Rom 8:8 !

Those that are in the flesh are the lost, but they can hear and believe.

beloved57
August 19th, 2015, 01:58 PM
I never ceased to be amazed at some of the people that I know of that have become Christians, including myself.

I was probably voted the most likely to go to hell.

But I heard the call and answered with a big yes.

God's Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. They either come or they don't, its their decision.

"Today if you will hear his voice, harden not your heart" Hebrews 3:15.

"So we see that some could not enter in because of unbelief" Hebrews 3:19.

Invalid comment, those God Called are Justified and Glorified Rom 8:28-30 !

beloved57
August 19th, 2015, 02:00 PM
Those that are in the flesh are the lost, but they can hear and believe.
All men are born in the flesh by nature, and can't please God! Much be born again first!

Grosnick Marowbe
August 19th, 2015, 02:01 PM
Why did you choose wisely and not your neighbor?

AMR

Why did the Israelite's choose to follow after their idols? (At times?)

The Bible tells us: "1 Timothy 2:4 "Who will have all men to be saved,
and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

God wants ALL men to become saved. That is His desire. However,
man has a freewill to choose what he will place his faith in. Some
choose wisely, while others choose foolishly. Why do some men
kill, steal, lie, cheat, commit adultery, etc, while others, do not?

Why do some men choose to be drunkards and drug addicts, and
some do not? The answer lies in the truth that, all men have free-
will choice. Perhaps that's, a mystery combined with the truth?

Grosnick Marowbe
August 19th, 2015, 02:07 PM
All men are born in the flesh by nature, and can't please God! Much be born again first!

The sinner comes before God, just as he is. We're all lost sinners
until we hear the "Message of our salvation." (The Grace Message,
Paul's Gospel) Then, we must place our faith in Christ alone. The
Holy Spirit, indwells/seals, and baptizes (not by water) us into
The Body of Christ. Once we are in The Body of Christ, we cannot
lose that position.

Cross Reference
August 19th, 2015, 02:50 PM
The sinner comes before God, just as he is. We're all lost sinners
until we hear the "Message of our salvation." (The Grace Message,
Paul's Gospel) Then, we must place our faith in Christ alone. The
Holy Spirit, indwells/seals, and baptizes (not by water) us into
The Body of Christ. Once we are in The Body of Christ, we cannot
lose that position.

If that is true and it isn't, you missed out _ couldn't make the cut and for obvious reasons all here have been given to witness from you. No offense intended.

Robert Pate
August 19th, 2015, 04:07 PM
The sinner comes before God, just as he is. We're all lost sinners
until we hear the "Message of our salvation." (The Grace Message,
Paul's Gospel) Then, we must place our faith in Christ alone. The
Holy Spirit, indwells/seals, and baptizes (not by water) us into
The Body of Christ. Once we are in The Body of Christ, we cannot
lose that position.

That is exactly the way that it is.

Nanja
August 19th, 2015, 05:42 PM
The sinner comes before God, just as he is. We're all lost sinners
until we hear the "Message of our salvation." (The Grace Message,
Paul's Gospel) Then, we must place our faith in Christ alone. The
Holy Spirit, indwells/seals, and baptizes (not by water) us into
The Body of Christ. Once we are in The Body of Christ, we cannot
lose that position.


Any profession of religion that teaches that one's Salvation is in any way dependent on what the sinner does is a false religion.


~~~~~

Grosnick Marowbe
August 20th, 2015, 01:54 AM
Those that are in the flesh are the lost, but they can hear and believe.

Amen!

Grosnick Marowbe
August 20th, 2015, 01:56 AM
Any profession of religion that teaches that one's Salvation is in any way dependent on what the sinner does is a false religion.


~~~~~

Your "Hyper-Calvinist belief system" is a farce. You people believe
the God creates ALL sin! Enough said about you false teachers.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 20th, 2015, 01:58 AM
That is exactly the way that it is.

Yep. And that's the way it is.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 20th, 2015, 01:59 AM
B57 and Nanja are false teachers.

Nanja
August 20th, 2015, 05:14 AM
Many in false religion, make the claim that they have placed their faith in Christ,
as if by their performing of this work / action, that it results in their becoming saved.
But they are deceived.


Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.


A man who has not been given John 3:27 Spiritual Life in the New Birth,
is a spiritually dead man, void of the Spirit of God, incapable of doing anything,
or performing any work in the flesh that pleases God.


Rom. 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom. 8:9b - Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


The Faith that pleases God is a Spiritual Blessing which is bestowed upon
all the Election of Grace Eph. 1:3-4 in their lifetime.

That's why Paul refers to it as the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1.

~~~~~

beloved57
August 20th, 2015, 06:41 AM
Many in false religion, make the claim that they have placed their faith in Christ,
as if by their performing of this work / action, that it results in their becoming saved.
But they are deceived.


Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.


A man who has not been given John 3:27 Spiritual Life in the New Birth,
is a spiritually dead man, void of the Spirit of God, incapable of doing anything,
or performing any work in the flesh that pleases God.


Rom. 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom. 8:9b - Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


The Faith that pleases God is a Spiritual Blessing which is bestowed upon
all the Election of Grace Eph. 1:3-4 in their lifetime.

That's why Paul refers to it as the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1.

~~~~~

Excellent Post !

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 06:46 AM
Many in false religion, make the claim that they have placed their faith in Christ,
as if by their performing of this work / action, that it results in their becoming saved.
But they are deceived.


Eph. 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.


A man who has not been given John 3:27 Spiritual Life in the New Birth,
is a spiritually dead man, void of the Spirit of God, incapable of doing anything,
or performing any work in the flesh that pleases God.


Rom. 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Rom. 8:9b - Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


The Faith that pleases God is a Spiritual Blessing which is bestowed upon
all the Election of Grace Eph. 1:3-4 in their lifetime.

That's why Paul refers to it as the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1.

~~~~~



God imposess salvation on no one.

No one is forced to accept Christ as their savior.

Salvation is a gift from God. If it is impossed upon you it is no longer a gift, it is an imposition.

If God imposed salvation on anyone that would make him unjust. That is why salvation is by grace through faith.

God is not responsible for anyones salvation. Salvation has been freely provided for all. We have the freedom to accept or to reject.

"Today if you hear his voice, harden not your heart" Hebrews 3:15.

Nanja
August 20th, 2015, 07:33 AM
God imposess salvation on no one.

God is not responsible for anyones salvation. Salvation has been freely provided for all. We have the freedom to accept or to reject.



You lie against God, and continue to show disdain for His Word!


Grace was given to all God's Adopted Sons before the foundation Eph. 1:4-5.

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began


~~~~~

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 07:47 AM
You lie against God, and continue to show disdain for His Word!


Grace was given to all God's Adopted Sons before the foundation Eph. 1:4-5.

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began


~~~~~

There is nothing in Ephesians 1:4, 5. that says that you were individually predestinated before the foundation of the world.

What it does say and is compatible with the bible is that God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ.

How else would you be holy and without blame before him in love?

Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God now sees all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. That does not mean everyone is saved. There will be a judgment of believers and unbelievers when Chist appears.

beloved57
August 20th, 2015, 07:50 AM
There is nothing in Ephesians 1:4, 5. that says that you were individually predestinated before the foundation of the world.

What it does say and is compatible with the bible is that God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ.

How else would you be holy and without blame before him in love?

Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God now sees all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. That does not mean everyone is saved. There will be a judgment of believers and unbelievers when Chist appears.

You teach that some whom God sees in Christ, will see them out of Christ if they dont do something !

You believe God sees people in Christ and then out of Christ ! Thats confusing and makes God inconsistent !

beloved57
August 20th, 2015, 07:52 AM
There is nothing in Ephesians 1:4, 5. that says that you were individually predestinated before the foundation of the world.

What it does say and is compatible with the bible is that God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ.

How else would you be holy and without blame before him in love?

Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God now sees all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. That does not mean everyone is saved. There will be a judgment of believers and unbelievers when Chist appears.

Thats a false statement, Eph 1:4 does not say that God chose all humanity in His Son Jesus Christ !

beloved57
August 20th, 2015, 07:55 AM
God imposess salvation on no one.

No one is forced to accept Christ as their savior.

Salvation is a gift from God. If it is impossed upon you it is no longer a gift, it is an imposition.

If God imposed salvation on anyone that would make him unjust. That is why salvation is by grace through faith.

God is not responsible for anyones salvation. Salvation has been freely provided for all. We have the freedom to accept or to reject.

"Today if you hear his voice, harden not your heart" Hebrews 3:15.

Blasphemy to the Highest degree ! Salvation is of the Lord ! Jonah 2:9

But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the Lord.

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 05:04 PM
Blasphemy to the Highest degree ! Salvation is of the Lord ! Jonah 2:9

But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the Lord.


Of course salvation is of the Lord.

It is God's great free gift for all of humanity.

Romans 5:15, The free gift of grace.

Romans 5:16, The free gift of justification.

Romans 5:17, The free gift of righteousness.

Romans 5:18, The free gift of justification of life.

God just pours out blessing on all of humanity.

beloved57
August 20th, 2015, 05:38 PM
Of course salvation is of the Lord.

It is God's great free gift for all of humanity.

Romans 5:15, The free gift of grace.

Romans 5:16, The free gift of justification.

Romans 5:17, The free gift of righteousness.

Romans 5:18, The free gift of justification of life.

God just pours out blessing on all of humanity.

Invalid comment!

beloved57
August 20th, 2015, 05:42 PM
Of course salvation is of the Lord.

It is God's great free gift for all of humanity.

Romans 5:15, The free gift of grace.

Romans 5:16, The free gift of justification.

Romans 5:17, The free gift of righteousness.

Romans 5:18, The free gift of justification of life.

God just pours out blessing on all of humanity.

You just said that God is not responsible for anyone's salvation! That's blasphemy!

Nanja
August 20th, 2015, 05:43 PM
God just pours out blessing on all of humanity.


No, He does not. You're lying again!


God is not blessing these:


Reprobates Titus 1:16 KJV

Seed of the serpent John 8:44; Mat. 23:33

Seed of the wicked Ps. 37:28 KJV; Mat. 13:38

Ungodly men 2 Pet. 3:7

Vessels of God's Wrath Rom. 9:22

Ordained by God to be condemned Jude 1:4 KJV

Those with blinded minds 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV

Those who remain spiritually Deaf John 8:43 KJV, John 8:47 KJV

~~~~~

Robert Pate
August 20th, 2015, 06:18 PM
No, He does not. You're lying again!


God is not blessing these:


Reprobates Titus 1:16 KJV

Seed of the serpent John 8:44; Mat. 23:33

Seed of the wicked Ps. 37:28 KJV; Mat. 13:38

Ungodly men 2 Pet. 3:7

Vessels of God's Wrath Rom. 9:22

Ordained by God to be condemned Jude 1:4 KJV

Those with blinded minds 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV

Those who remain spiritually Deaf John 8:43 KJV, John 8:47 KJV

~~~~~


You have a very negative view of the nature and character of God.

Thats why you don't trust him or believe in him.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 20th, 2015, 06:22 PM
You have a very negative view of the nature and character of God.

Thats why you don't trust him or believe in him.

Yes. They don't KNOW the character and intent of the God of the Bible.

nikolai_42
August 21st, 2015, 01:29 PM
I never ceased to be amazed at some of the people that I know of that have become Christians, including myself.

At what point did you become that person that you were before you became a Christian? Did you choose that?


I was probably voted the most likely to go to hell.

But I heard the call and answered with a big yes.

What changed?


God's Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. They either come or they don't, its their decision.

"Today if you will hear his voice, harden not your heart" Hebrews 3:15.

"So we see that some could not enter in because of unbelief" Hebrews 3:19.

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 04:37 PM
No, He does not. You're lying again!


God is not blessing these:


Reprobates Titus 1:16 KJV

Seed of the serpent John 8:44; Mat. 23:33

Seed of the wicked Ps. 37:28 KJV; Mat. 13:38

Ungodly men 2 Pet. 3:7

Vessels of God's Wrath Rom. 9:22

Ordained by God to be condemned Jude 1:4 KJV

Those with blinded minds 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV

Those who remain spiritually Deaf John 8:43 KJV, John 8:47 KJV

~~~~~


You will not and cannot find any scripture where God has sent anyone to hell.

Do you want to know why?

It is because people send themselves to hell, not God.

Robert Pate
August 21st, 2015, 04:40 PM
At what point did you become that person that you were before you became a Christian? Did you choose that?



What changed?

I heard that Christ shed his blood for me and I was convicted by the Holy Spirit of my need for him. That was over 45 years ago and I have not been the same since.

beloved57
August 22nd, 2015, 08:33 AM
I heard that Christ shed his blood for me and I was convicted by the Holy Spirit of my need for him. That was over 45 years ago and I have not been the same since.

You teach that millions for whom Christ lived and died for, she'd His Blood for, wind up in Hell for their sins!

RevTestament
August 22nd, 2015, 01:27 PM
So you were more discerning than your neighbor? Why?

AMR

Because God didn't create our spirits, and they are inherently unequal. Some are more thoughtful than others.

God treats us all the same under the law, for He is no respecter of persons.

Robert Pate
August 22nd, 2015, 03:07 PM
Because God didn't create our spirits, and they are inherently unequal. Some are more thoughtful than others.

God treats us all the same under the law, for He is no respecter of persons.

Right.

Jesus provided salvation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Now its our responsibility to believe in him, John 1:12.

beloved57
August 22nd, 2015, 03:52 PM
Right.

Jesus provided salvation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Now its our responsibility to believe in him, John 1:12.

Invalid comments!

Robert Pate
August 23rd, 2015, 07:29 AM
Invalid comments!


You need to call on Christ to save you.

"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

beloved57
August 23rd, 2015, 07:30 AM
You need to call on Christ to save you.

"Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.
You don't believe the Gospel!

Robert Pate
August 23rd, 2015, 07:35 AM
You don't believe the Gospel!

You would have to be desparate to believe a lie, than believe your Calvinist Gospel.

beloved57
August 23rd, 2015, 07:36 AM
You would have to be desparate to believe a lie, than believe your Calvinist Gospel.
You have not called upon the name of the Lord since you don't believe the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ, TUlip!

Robert Pate
August 23rd, 2015, 04:33 PM
You have not called upon the name of the Lord since you don't believe the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ, TUlip!

TULIP is a poisonous plant. You swallowed it and it made you spiritually blind.

Robert Pate
November 10th, 2017, 07:54 PM
Odd that you lay claim to the purity of the Bible, given your personal views about the bible.



Why should anyone expect anything different, given:


Pate is also double-minded. Here he has no hesitancy to declare who is a Christian and who is not. Yes, even the box of Scripture is too small for Robert for if Scripture disagrees with him, Pate will just wave it off as irrelevant. :AMR:



But, when he tries his usual schtick at more moderated sites, we get this from Pate:



In other words, Pate is not above being a liar to suit his purposes.

Pate's behavior is probably because he is holding a book in his hands that he does not see as Holy Writ and full of inaccuracies and discrepancies.

See Robert's mentor, Brinsmead, and his latest nonsense here:
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?120152-How-the-Gospel-Refutes-All-Religions-and-Reconciles-Us-to-God&p=4835494&viewfull=1#post4835494





Pate confirms these low views of Scripture:


Then continues with more non-Scriptural views:



Then there are some real howlers:






One of the main reasons Pate does not understand Scripture...he refuses to attend church, even declaring its members as being in a "whore church (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?115726-Why-do-the-Religious-Love-their-Religion&p=4589107&viewfull=1#post4589107)":


Yet, religion is something Pate affirms…



Given Pate's confusion about the Scriptures, is there any wonder he says:



Finally, since Pate denies imperfect men could write a perfect book, and the book (the Bible) was never intended to be a book to live by, he has little concerns about the consequences of his behavior. Pate has an "out" for everything anyway:





Then there is Robert's psychopannychia (soul sleep):



Then there is this:


At least Robert is bold enough to declare in public and unequivocally exactly what the anti-Calvinist really believes...and prays thusly here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?119898-Honor-God-s-Son-or-Perish&p=4845747&viewfull=1#post4845747).

When a person willfully refuses to submit themselves to the local authority of a church, denies the essentials of the Bible, and lies when it suits him, why would anyone ever consider taking him seriously? Pate knows this, which is why he refuses to stand still long enough to defend his bizarre views. Rather he just runs along and starts yet another thread. A good portion have been deleted, but Robert is not deterred. Sigh.

AMR


If you don't like the message then kill the messenger. I must be really getting under your skin with my grace Gospel. It appears to me that you are under severe conviction, kind of like B57. By the way, I retract nothing that I have said, simply because everything that I have said is the truth. You have yet to prove that it isn't. You list things that I have said like there is error in it, there is no error. The error is in your twisted, perverted Calvinist mind.

Ask Mr. Religion
November 11th, 2017, 12:14 AM
I retract nothing that I have said, simply because everything that I have said is the truth.

Truth?

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?119999-Did-Jesus-Defeat-Sin-Death-and-the-Devil&p=4829299&viewfull=1#post4829299

:AMR1:


...my grace Gospel
You are correct, Robert. It is your grace gospel.

Fortunately, thanks be to God, it is not Scripture's grace gospel. :AMR:

AMR

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2017, 01:17 PM
Truth?

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?119999-Did-Jesus-Defeat-Sin-Death-and-the-Devil&p=4829299&viewfull=1#post4829299

:AMR1:


You are correct, Robert. It is your grace gospel.

Fortunately, thanks be to God, it is not Scripture's grace gospel. :AMR:

AMR

I preach the same Gospel that Paul preached. It is the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

This Gospel is based upon the doing and the dying of Jesus for and on behalf of fallen sinners. Jesus justifies and saves to the uttermost, Hebrews 7:25, all that call upon the name of the Lord to be saved, Romans 10:13.

What does your Calvinist religion do for you other than take you to hell?

Nanja
November 11th, 2017, 06:41 PM
all that call upon the name of the Lord to be saved, Romans 10:13.


Those in the flesh cannot please God Rom. 8:8 by calling upon His name or anything else they do.


But calling upon the name of the Lord is the evidence of one having been made Spiritually Alive in New Birth.


"Quicken us [Heb. chayah: to have life; revive; be quickened], and we will call upon thy name" Ps. 80:18.


God's adopted sons Eph. 1:4-5 exclusively shall call upon His Name.


Gal. 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Robert Pate
November 11th, 2017, 07:56 PM
Those in the flesh cannot please God Rom. 8:8 by calling upon His name or anything else they do.


But calling upon the name of the Lord is the evidence of one having been made Spiritually Alive in New Birth.


"Quicken us [Heb. chayah: to have life; revive; be quickened], and we will call upon thy name" Ps. 80:18.


God's adopted sons Eph. 1:4-5 exclusively shall call upon His Name.


Gal. 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.


Unless you are born again by the word of God (the Gospel) 1 Peter 1:23, you will perish.

You are in deep denial that people are saved and are born again by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

Nanja
November 12th, 2017, 06:06 PM
Unless you are born again by the word of God (the Gospel) 1 Peter 1:23, you will perish.

You are in deep denial that people are saved and are born again by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.


Unless a person is Born of the Spirit of God, their own hearing and believing, or anything else they do, are nothing more than works of the flesh which cannot please God Rom. 8:8.

Robert Pate
November 12th, 2017, 08:01 PM
Unless a person is Born of the Spirit of God, their own hearing and believing, or anything else they do, are nothing more than works of the flesh which cannot please God Rom. 8:8.

What about those that crucified Jesus and were saved by hearing Peter's Gospel? Acts 2:36.

Refuting you is child's play.

Nanja
November 12th, 2017, 08:11 PM
What about those that crucified Jesus and were saved by hearing Peter's Gospel? Acts 2:36.


God gives hearing ears to all His Elect, the Born of God Prov. 20:12.

He that is of God heareth God's Words John 8:47!

Robert Pate
November 12th, 2017, 09:29 PM
God gives hearing ears to all His Elect, the Born of God Prov. 20:12.

He that is of God heareth God's Words John 8:47!

You have heard God's word (the Gospel) but you don't believe it. You have not been born again.

Nanja
November 14th, 2017, 03:11 PM
You have heard God's word (the Gospel) but you don't believe it. You have not been born again.

Mat. 5:11-12

Robert Pate
November 14th, 2017, 03:58 PM
Mat. 5:11-12

No one is persecuting you. You have rejected the Gospel and justification by faith and have embraced the doctrine of a heretic. As a Christian it is my responsibility to try and teach you the Gospel that has reconciled you and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Nanja
November 14th, 2017, 04:06 PM
No one is persecuting you. You have rejected the Gospel and justification by faith and have embraced the doctrine of a heretic. As a Christian it is my responsibility to try and teach you the Gospel that has reconciled you and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

LOL! You can't teach anyone the True Gospel because you remain blinded to it 2 Cor. 4:3-4.

Robert Pate
November 14th, 2017, 04:14 PM
LOL! You can't teach anyone the True Gospel because you remain blinded to it 2 Cor. 4:3-4.

I have been teaching the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19, successfully, for over 45 years.

You are the one that is blind. You have embraced by your own free will the doctrine of a heretic.

Nanja
November 14th, 2017, 04:28 PM
I have been teaching the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19, successfully, for over 45 years.

You are the one that is blind. You have embraced by your own free will the doctrine of a heretic.


You can't even begin to comprehend the Truth found in those scriptures you posted, because your understanding is darkened as a consequence of your blinded mind Eph. 4:18: IOW you're void of Spiritual Life.

beloved57
November 14th, 2017, 04:34 PM
I have been teaching the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19, successfully, for over 45 years.

You are the one that is blind. You have embraced by your own free will the doctrine of a heretic.

You have been teaching for over 45 yrs that Christ death doesnt save them He died for !

Robert Pate
November 14th, 2017, 05:24 PM
You have been teaching for over 45 yrs that Christ death doesnt save them He died for !

That is a false accusation. Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the whole world unto God by his life, death and resurrection, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. But some blind fools like yourself don't believe it.

beloved57
November 14th, 2017, 06:02 PM
That is a false accusation. Jesus has ALREADY reconciled the whole world unto God by his life, death and resurrection, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. Salvation has been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. But some blind fools like yourself don't believe it.

Don't you believe that sinners Christ died for are still lost ?

Robert Pate
November 14th, 2017, 06:12 PM
Don't you believe that sinners Christ died for are still lost ?

Only Gospel rejecting, Christ denying sinners like yourself will go to hell. You more than qualify.

Nanja
November 14th, 2017, 06:45 PM
Only Gospel rejecting, Christ denying sinners like yourself will go to hell. You more than qualify.


False preaching!


2 Cor. 5:19 is referring exclusively to Christ's Sheep He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15: which make up The Eternally Forgiven World: God's elect who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love and to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7 .


But not the condemned world:

1 Cor. 11:32
But when we are judged [Christ's Sheep], we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


The cursed world of the goats were already prepared for the lake of fire from everlasting.

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Robert Pate
November 14th, 2017, 08:40 PM
False preaching!


2 Cor. 5:19 is referring exclusively to Christ's Sheep He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15: which make up The Eternally Forgiven World: God's elect who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love and to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7 .


But not the condemned world:

1 Cor. 11:32
But when we are judged [Christ's Sheep], we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


The cursed world of the goats were already prepared for the lake of fire from everlasting.

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

You are the cursed. Your doctrine is blasphemy against God and his Son Jesus Christ.

glorydaz
November 14th, 2017, 08:46 PM
False preaching!


2 Cor. 5:19 is referring exclusively to Christ's Sheep He gave His Life for John 10:11, 15: which make up The Eternally Forgiven World: God's elect who were Chosen in Christ before the foundation to be Holy and without blame before Him in Love and to have forgiveness of sins Eph. 1:4-7 .


But not the condemned world:

1 Cor. 11:32
But when we are judged [Christ's Sheep], we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.


The cursed world of the goats were already prepared for the lake of fire from everlasting.

Mat. 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Why are you claiming there are sheep in Paul's letters? Do you just write your own Bible?

God's Truth
November 14th, 2017, 08:53 PM
Why are you claiming there are sheep in Paul's letters? Do you just write your own Bible?

So when Paul calls the the Christians 'flock', it is not about sheep? lol

Acts 20:29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.


So what are these wolves going to do according to Paul, get a flock of geese?

glorydaz
November 14th, 2017, 08:57 PM
"Reconciled" and "Reconciling".

The work of salvation is ongoing. It's why we preach the Gospel.

We see that here. 2 Corinthians 5:18, 2 Cor. 5:19, 2 Cor. 5:20

glorydaz
November 14th, 2017, 09:07 PM
So when Paul calls the the Christians 'flock', it is not about sheep? lol

Acts 20:29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.


So what are these wolves going to do according to Paul, get a flock of geese?

That's talking about the Jewish Church not he body of Christ.

Corinthians isn't written to the Jewish Church, and that's the verse under discussion.

God's Truth
November 14th, 2017, 09:21 PM
That's talking about the Jewish Church not he body of Christ.

Corinthians isn't written to the Jewish Church, and that's the verse under discussion.

What? That is some confused stuff you are saying.

In Acts 20, Paul is speaking to Ephesians.

beloved57
November 14th, 2017, 10:24 PM
Only Gospel rejecting, Christ denying sinners like yourself will go to hell. You more than qualify.

Don't you teach that sinners Christ died for are lost?

glorydaz
November 14th, 2017, 11:03 PM
What? That is some confused stuff you are saying.

In Acts 20, Paul is speaking to Ephesians.

The early church was primarily Jewish. Notice, though that Jesus was not the Shepherd, but the elders were to shepherd or lead the flock or assembly.

God's Truth
November 14th, 2017, 11:39 PM
The early church was primarily Jewish. Notice, though that Jesus was not the Shepherd, but the elders were to shepherd or lead the flock or assembly.

You digging a hole? You are proven wrong. Period.

Danoh
November 14th, 2017, 11:56 PM
The early church was primarily Jewish. Notice, though that Jesus was not the Shepherd, but the elders were to shepherd or lead the flock or assembly.

No, the early church was not Jewish - the early Jewish church (under the Twelve) was "Jews and prosylites."

As was the early Body church (under Paul).

And GT is actually right on her one point there - at that point in Acts, Paul was addressing the following people...

Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. 20:18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,

20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

That last passage is very similar in sense to these..

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

And especially similar to these...

Romans 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

His mention of the inheritance there being the issue of what the building up of the Believer in a sound understanding of the doctrines of grace is meant to result in - in being able to do this here...

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

The word of His grace enabling that result through this here...

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

In Acts 20, Paul was speaking to elders of that assembly of Body members from Ephesus, and so on.

Which is why what he to them about wolves, etc., there, he repeated the basic thought of in writing here...

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The trail of interconnections between all those things as one doctrine (Establishment Truth), ever being a long, winding, and fascinating one.

Rom.5:8; 14:5.

glorydaz
November 15th, 2017, 12:26 AM
No, the early church was not Jewish - the early Jewish church (under the Twelve) was "Jews and prosylites."

As was the early Body church (under Paul).



So, when I said "primarily Jewish" I was wrong. Gotcha. :rolleyes:

glorydaz
November 15th, 2017, 12:28 AM
You digging a whole? You are proven wrong. Period.

Hole.

Nope, I'm not digging a hole. You just don't get it.

Danoh
November 15th, 2017, 01:22 AM
So, when I said "primarily Jewish" I was wrong. Gotcha. :rolleyes:

Actually, as to THAT church (Early church of Acts 2), you'd be right - Acts 2:5.

And to think that was one of the very first passages I ever memorized from Acts.

But you were not talking about them - you were still off :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.

Danoh
November 15th, 2017, 01:23 AM
You digging a whole? You are proven wrong. Period.

So, would that be a whole hole? :chuckle:

glorydaz
November 15th, 2017, 01:31 AM
Actually, as to THAT church (Early church of Acts 2), you'd be right - Acts 2:5.

And to think that was one of the very first passages I ever memorized from Acts.

But you were not talking about them - you were still off :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.

So you say.

God's Truth
November 15th, 2017, 01:56 AM
Actually, as to THAT church (Early church of Acts 2), you'd be right - Acts 2:5.

And to think that was one of the very first passages I ever memorized from Acts.

But you were not talking about them - you were still off :chuckle:

Rom. 5:8; 14:5.

She sure is off. She just can't admit it.

God's Truth
November 15th, 2017, 01:57 AM
No, the early church was not Jewish - the early Jewish church (under the Twelve) was "Jews and prosylites."

As was the early Body church (under Paul).

And GT is actually right on her one point there - at that point in Acts, Paul was addressing the following people...

Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church. 20:18 And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,

20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. 20:32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

That last passage is very similar in sense to these..

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

And especially similar to these...

Romans 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

His mention of the inheritance there being the issue of what the building up of the Believer in a sound understanding of the doctrines of grace is meant to result in - in being able to do this here...

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

The word of His grace enabling that result through this here...

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

In Acts 20, Paul was speaking to elders of that assembly of Body members from Ephesus, and so on.

Which is why what he to them about wolves, etc., there, he repeated the basic thought of in writing here...

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The trail of interconnections between all those things as one doctrine (Establishment Truth), ever being a long, winding, and fascinating one.

Rom.5:8; 14:5.

Good job on that and no insults.

God's Truth
November 15th, 2017, 01:58 AM
So you say.

That is pretty mild of you.

ttruscott
November 15th, 2017, 01:00 PM
GOD does not predestine anyone's fate which is self chosen by their free will. But HE does predestine their lives to fulfill their self chosen fate and HIS promise of salvation by election.

Robert Pate
November 15th, 2017, 01:39 PM
GOD does not predestine anyone's fate which is self chosen by their free will. But HE does predestine their lives to fulfill their self chosen fate and HIS promise of salvation by election.

God has chosen all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. All that believe in Jesus are predestinated to be conformed to his Son.

glorydaz
November 15th, 2017, 01:54 PM
That is pretty mild of you.

I figure it does no good to discuss anything with either you or Danoh. Why waste my time?

God's Truth
November 15th, 2017, 03:43 PM
GOD does not predestine anyone's fate which is self chosen by their free will. But HE does predestine their lives to fulfill their self chosen fate and HIS promise of salvation by election.

God chooses and elects those who fear Him and do right.

Do you believe that?

Robert Pate
November 16th, 2017, 07:57 AM
God chooses and elects those who fear Him and do right.

Do you believe that?

I don't. That's 100% Calvinism. Jesus came into the world to save sinners, not the righteous.

God's Truth
November 16th, 2017, 09:45 AM
I don't. That's 100% Calvinism. Jesus came into the world to save sinners, not the righteous.

That is Calvinism? You are a pathetic joke.

iouae
November 16th, 2017, 11:24 AM
Predestination is a real Bible word, unlike words like "rapture".

But the Calvinists have changed "predestination" to mean that God knows every detail of the future, and that this future is thus predetermined.

The real concept of predestination is that God has certain goals, such as ending up with a crowd of saints. Enoch for instance was told ...
Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Enoch knew he would be among that number.
God knew He was aiming to have saints, and that He would end up with thousands of saints, but who the specific saints would end up being, even God had no clue. He would call, and those who believed and came would be saved, and the rest condemned. It was up to them. And we realise that it is God who motivates us from within, who calls, and who perfects us, so He gets the credit. We are saved by grace.

Only a few specific folks like Jesus, John the Baptist, Jeremiah, David, Moses were known and called by God from the womb for specific purposes. The rest of us are like the seed which falls randomly on the ground. God is the sower, but even the Sower knows its up to some chance, some circumstances, some Devil mischief whether we finally make it. Even Paul acknowledged that he could become shipwrecked if he did not diligently attend to his own salvation with fear and trembling (1 Cor 9:27, Phi 2:12, 1 Ti 1:19). God offers us a crown, He goes to prepare a place for us - but whether someone else gets our crown and mansion - that is up to us not to blow it.

ttruscott
November 16th, 2017, 01:30 PM
God chooses and elects those who fear Him and do right. Do you believe that?

I believe GOD made the offer of election to everyone who would accept HIS unproven claims by faith to be our creator GOD because they wanted to come under HIS promise of salvation from any and all sin as found in HIS Son the Christ by faith. Motive for accepting HIM was immaterial, only that a free will decision was made to be one of HIS elect to whom HE promised salvation.

Election was over by the time of the foundation of the earth, not just beginning.

ttruscott
November 16th, 2017, 02:02 PM
He would call, and those who believed and came would be saved, and the rest condemned. It was up to them. And we realise that it is God who motivates us from within, who calls, and who perfects us, so He gets the credit. We are saved by grace.

If HE gets the credit for those saved, why does HE not get the discredit for the condemned ones? Why did HE not work harder with them or wait longer?

Do you not see how this disparages HIS nature as the GOD who is love which is never ending, patient and kind? Could you not start with HIS love and then develop a theology without this cognitive dissonance rather than live with a so called mystery?

Epoisses
November 16th, 2017, 02:02 PM
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 1Cor. 1:27,28

If you're a stupid, banana stealing monkey of a man you have a good shot.

iouae
November 16th, 2017, 02:21 PM
If HE gets the credit for those saved, why does HE not get the discredit for the condemned ones? Why did HE not work harder with them or wait longer?

Do you not see how this disparages HIS nature as the GOD who is love which is never ending, patient and kind? Could you not start with HIS love and then develop a theology without this cognitive dissonance rather than live with a so called mystery?

I will start with His love. God gave man 70 years to do everything possible to have a pleasant life, whether they like Him or not. That's a gift.

If they want more, then they just have to join His team, and He will give them eternal life.

I don't believe in an eternity in hell. Hell burns up the wicked, utterly destroys them. That is what a loving God does.

Because God always leaves the final choice to us to accept the calling, it is always our fault, never His.
He would have all to be saved, but all would not have themselves to be saved.

In the long run, good and evil have been blessed. The good get to enjoy an eternity of blessing, while the evil get 70 years of blessing. There is no down side to God.

ttruscott
November 16th, 2017, 04:31 PM
I will start with His love. God gave man 70 years to do everything possible to have a pleasant life, whether they like Him or not. That's a gift.

If they want more, then they just have to join His team, and He will give them eternal life.

I don't believe in an eternity in hell. Hell burns up the wicked, utterly destroys them. That is what a loving God does.

Because God always leaves the final choice to us to accept the calling, it is always our fault, never His.
He would have all to be saved, but all would not have themselves to be saved.

In the long run, good and evil have been blessed. The good get to enjoy an eternity of blessing, while the evil get 70 years of blessing. There is no down side to God.

A lot of theo-babble but no where do you say how HIS loving patience and kindness can ever end let alone last only a paltry 70 years? Your theology is man made and affronts the GOD who is love. Do you not know love or do you not know GOD?

iouae
November 16th, 2017, 04:36 PM
A lot of theo-babble but no where do you say how HIS loving patience and kindness can ever end let alone last only a paltry 70 years? Your theology is man made and affronts the GOD who is love. Do you not know love or do you not know GOD?

If God is love, why are you so angry?

ttruscott
November 16th, 2017, 05:17 PM
If God is love, why are you so angry?

NOPE - this is not about me and neither will I let you lead me into a woozle hunt. Answer my question in post 353 and tell us why you think the way you do.

Romans 1:18 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.”

Ephesians 5:6 “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”

glorydaz
November 16th, 2017, 05:54 PM
GOD does not predestine anyone's fate which is self chosen by their free will. But HE does predestine their lives to fulfill their self chosen fate and HIS promise of salvation by election.

What do YOU mean by election?

God's Truth
November 16th, 2017, 08:06 PM
I believe GOD made the offer of election to everyone who would accept HIS unproven claims by faith to be our creator GOD because they wanted to come under HIS promise of salvation from any and all sin as found in HIS Son the Christ by faith. Motive for accepting HIM was immaterial, only that a free will decision was made to be one of HIS elect to whom HE promised salvation.
We must only go by the scriptures, the words of God, and thew Word of God says faith alone is dead.




Election was over by the time of the foundation of the earth, not just beginning.

God doesn't even know you unless you obey Him. That scripture. You have to go by scripture.

iouae
November 17th, 2017, 12:49 AM
A lot of theo-babble but no where do you say how HIS loving patience and kindness can ever end let alone last only a paltry 70 years? Your theology is man made and affronts the GOD who is love. Do you not know love or do you not know GOD?

I do not see why you have a problem with God's love. The problem exists only in your mind.
God gives man 70 years of wonderful life as a gift.
God's love offers all more life.
Some reject His offer.
If they were to live forever in conflict with God, they would be as miserable as the demons, or fallen angels.
So God wipes out incorrigible humans, at the end of their long lives. He does not burn them forever in hell. That would be mean.

Go through the Bible and look at God's love. It may surprise you.
God's love has His favourite Son brutally murdered.
God's love has Job suffer for a while.
God's love for Elisha is demonstrated in this true account, when children mocked Elisha's baldness.

2Ki 2:24
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

God's love is not how YOU define it, but how He IS.

ttruscott
November 17th, 2017, 12:47 PM
I do not see why you have a problem with God's love. The problem exists only in your mind.
God gives man 70 years of wonderful life as a gift.

That you cannot admit your theology limits GOD's eternal love, HIS eternal patience and HIS never ending kindness to 70 years is my problem.

ttruscott
November 17th, 2017, 02:08 PM
We must only go by the scriptures, the words of God, and thew Word of God says faith alone is dead.

Although this is a strange direction to come at my beliefs, I believe in our Existence in Sheol prior to the creation of the physical universe. This is the time of my quote, not during our time on earth:
I believe GOD made the offer of election to everyone who would accept HIS unproven claims by faith to be our creator GOD because they wanted to come under HIS promise of salvation from any and all sin as found in HIS Son the Christ by faith. It was by our free will decision at this time that some became demonic, rejecting HIM totally and some became elect, accepting HIS deity but then chose to be sinners by rejecting HIS plans for the judgment and it is both types of sinners (and only sinners) who are born / sown into the world as human as per His explanation without metaphor, symbolism or analogy of our coming to earth: Matt 13:36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.


God doesn't even know you unless you obey Him. That scripture. You have to go by scripture. I agree but what is in scripture about our relationship with HIM is about our being sinners and how HE fulfills HIS promise to us of salvation which HE first preached to us in Sheol: Colossians 1:23...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven [which has never happened on earth yet the verb proclaimed is a finished past action], and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

NOT about how our faith in YHWH as our GOD and our faith in HIS promise of salvation to be found in HIS Son brought us under HIS promise and so brought us into salvation BEFORE we sinned in Sheol (before the existence of the physical universe). It is this faith, a faith without works that ultimately saved us from all sin. On earth the fulfillment of our salvation as promised does indeed have works appended to it, causing the confusion because all churches reject that faith prior to human existence can be real.

God's Truth
November 17th, 2017, 03:04 PM
Although this is a strange direction to come at my beliefs, I believe in our Existence in Sheol prior to the creation of the physical universe. This is the time of my quote, not during our time on earth: It was by our free will decision at this time that some became demonic, rejecting HIM totally and some became elect, accepting HIS deity but then chose to be sinners by rejecting HIS plans for the judgment and it is both types of sinners (and only sinners) who are born / sown into the world as human as per His explanation without metaphor, symbolism or analogy of our coming to earth: Matt 13:36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”

37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

I agree but what is in scripture about our relationship with HIM is about our being sinners and how HE fulfills HIS promise to us of salvation which HE first preached to us in Sheol: Colossians 1:23...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven [which has never happened on earth yet the verb proclaimed is a finished past action], and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

NOT about how our faith in YHWH as our GOD and our faith in HIS promise of salvation to be found in HIS Son brought us under HIS promise and so brought us into salvation BEFORE we sinned in Sheol (before the existence of the physical universe). It is this faith, a faith without works that ultimately saved us from all sin. On earth the fulfillment of our salvation as promised does indeed have works appended to it, causing the confusion because all churches reject that faith prior to human existence can be real.

I don't go by what denominations teach. I only go by what the scriptures say in the Holy Bible. There is nothing in the scriptures that say what you claim. We were not all from Sheol.

One has to make up their mind if they want some religion's truth, some denomination's truth, your own made up truth, or God's Truth.

Jesus can reveal himself to you in a powerful way, if you obey him, and if His written words are carefully followed. He is the Way and gives directions. You cannot get to the Father unless you obey the Way exactly. If you do not obey exactly, you might end up in false religions, false doctrines and saying we are from Sheol and other things that are not about the true God.

God's Truth
November 17th, 2017, 03:16 PM
When Jesus went to prison/hell, he went to those who were born on this earth and then did wrong and then died, and went to prison/hell. Not all are from prison/hell.

As for sowing good seed, good people, and sowing bad seed and evil people...that is about after we are born in this world and how we choose to live. Have we heard of Jesus' gospel and accepted it and obeyed it? Or, have we heard about the way of this world and chose to accept it and obey it?

ttruscott
November 17th, 2017, 05:01 PM
I don't go by what denominations teach. I only go by what the scriptures say in the Holy Bible. There is nothing in the scriptures that say what you claim. We were not all from Sheol. Maybe you should do a little more reading with a soupcon of critical thinking...Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall RETURN to Sheol ... Kiel - Delitzsch(#16): Yea, back to Hades must the wicked RETURN. Just how can anyone return to where they never were?

Job 1:21 - And Job said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb and naked shall I return thither. Do we really think Job is planning on returning to where he was born from, his mother's womb or to before the womb into annihilation (if he did not exist before the womb) or is this a poetic way of saying he is going back to where he came from, sheol. Where else could he be going?

1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray: but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Well, to return, one must have been there before, at least, according to the normal use of the word. Therefore, in this verse, it would be normal to infer that the sheep that had gone astray, were, at one time part of the Shepherd's flock but had strayed away from HIS care. Since I am sure that the Shepherd was not negligent, the straying away from HIS care must involve some rebellion.

Therefore, it is normally obvious that Peter is writing to some apostatized (gone astray) Christians (people of the flock). It is also normally apparent that what he was writing is intended for every new convert in every age since.

Therefore, it seems normal that the Holy Spirit would have us believe that all of the Church has personally apostatized from Christ prior to their conversion in this life. Since we are conceived as sinners, it is easy to see that we apostatized from Christ before our conception and that is why we are sinners at our birth.

I think that Peter bore added witness to this fact in 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ...which ...hath begotten us again unto a lively hope... Just when was the first time you were begotten by GOD? And when did you get unbegotten? Well, unless you are one of those earthly backslidden types, the only time such an un-begetting or rebellion could have taken place is prior to your conception. And since Peter is writing to the whole Church rather than to just the backslidden types, he must be referring to a preconception rebellion and the straying of HIS elect since that time, which straying or rebellion ends only upon conversion to obedience unto holiness to that Shepherd, that is, upon being born in Christ (begotten) again.


One has to make up their mind if they want some religion's truth, some denomination's truth, your own made up truth, or God's Truth. Done! Now, what do you teach that RETURN means in these verses...esp Psalm 9:17 just for my edification, of course.

ttruscott
November 17th, 2017, 05:02 PM
When Jesus went to prison/hell, he went to those who were born on this earth and then did wrong and then died, and went to prison/hell. Not all are from prison/hell.

As for sowing good seed, good people, and sowing bad seed and evil people...that is about after we are born in this world and how we choose to live. Have we heard of Jesus' gospel and accepted it and obeyed it? Or, have we heard about the way of this world and chose to accept it and obey it?

Sure, but in context what does "to sow" mean?

God's Truth
November 17th, 2017, 08:44 PM
Sure, but in context what does "to sow" mean?

To sow is when one speaks the gospel, it is as throwing seed around; and whoever is interested in what they hear is someone in whom the seed landed and can either grow to eternal life or not.

God's Truth
November 17th, 2017, 09:30 PM
Maybe you should do a little more reading with a soupcon of critical thinking...Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall RETURN to Sheol ... Kiel - Delitzsch(#16): Yea, back to Hades must the wicked RETURN. Just how can anyone return to where they never were?
In scriptures that are harder to understand, one should study other translations and decide reasonably.

King James Bible
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

King James 2000 Bible
The wicked shall be turned into sheol, and all the nations that forget God.


Job 1:21 - And Job said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb and naked shall I return thither. Do we really think Job is planning on returning to where he was born from, his mother's womb or to before the womb into annihilation (if he did not exist before the womb) or is this a poetic way of saying he is going back to where he came from, sheol. Where else could he be going?
I take Job as saying he came with nothing not even clothes, and will leave with nothing.

Read this scripture, it confirms it:

1 Timothy 6:7
For we brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out of it.



1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray: but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Well, to return, one must have been there before, at least, according to the normal use of the word. Therefore, in this verse, it would be normal to infer that the sheep that had gone astray, were, at one time part of the Shepherd's flock but had strayed away from HIS care. Since I am sure that the Shepherd was not negligent, the straying away from HIS care must involve some rebellion.
Well, the shepherds were the one at fault in that case.
The lost sheep were actually the sheep that did not rebel.

Ezekiel 34

Prophecy against the Shepherds of Israel

1 Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flock? 3 You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat sheep without feeding the flock. 4 Those who are sickly you have not strengthened, the diseased you have not healed, the broken you have not bound up, the scattered you have not brought back, nor have you sought for the lost; but with force and with severity you have dominated them. 5 They were scattered for lack of a shepherd, and they became food for every beast of the field and were scattered. 6 My flock wandered through all the mountains and on every high hill; My flock was scattered over all the surface of the earth, and there was no one to search or seek for them.”’”

7 Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 8 “As I live,” declares the Lord God, “surely because My flock has become a prey, My flock has even become food for all the beasts of the field for lack of a shepherd, and My shepherds did not search for My flock, but rather the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock; 9 therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: 10 ‘Thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will demand My sheep from them and make them cease from feeding sheep. So the shepherds will not feed themselves anymore, but I will deliver My flock from their mouth, so that they will not be food for them.”’”
The Restoration of Israel

11 For thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd cares for his herd in the day when he is among his scattered sheep, so I will care for My sheep and will deliver them from all the places to which they were scattered on a cloudy and gloomy day. 13 I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and bring them to their own land; and I will feed them on the mountains of Israel, by the streams, and in all the inhabited places of the land. 14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and their grazing ground will be on the mountain heights of Israel. There they will lie down on good grazing ground and feed in rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I will feed My flock and I will lead them to rest,” declares the Lord God. 16 “I will seek the lost, bring back the scattered, bind up the broken and strengthen the sick; but the fat and the strong I will destroy. I will feed them with judgment.

17 “As for you, My flock, thus says the Lord God, ‘Behold, I will judge between one sheep and another, between the rams and the male goats. 18 Is it too slight a thing for you that you should feed in the good pasture, that you must tread down with your feet the rest of your pastures? Or that you should drink of the clear waters, that you must foul the rest with your feet? 19 As for My flock, they must eat what you tread down with your feet and drink what you foul with your feet!’”

20 Therefore, thus says the Lord God to them, “Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. 21 Because you push with side and with shoulder, and thrust at all the weak with your horns until you have scattered them abroad, 22 therefore, I will deliver My flock, and they will no longer be a prey; and I will judge between one sheep and another.

23 “Then I will set over them one shepherd, My servant David, and he will feed them; he will feed them himself and be their shepherd. 24 And I, the Lord, will be their God, and My servant David will be prince among them; I the Lord have spoken.

25 “I will make a covenant of peace with them and eliminate harmful beasts from the land so that they may live securely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places around My hill a blessing. And I will cause showers to come down in their season; they will be showers of blessing. 27 Also the tree of the field will yield its fruit and the earth will yield its increase, and they will be secure on their land. Then they will know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bars of their yoke and have delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 They will no longer be a prey to the nations, and the beasts of the earth will not devour them; but they will live securely, and no one will make them afraid. 29 I will establish for them a renowned planting place, and they will not again be victims of famine in the land, and they will not endure the insults of the nations anymore. 30 Then they will know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and that they, the house of Israel, are My people,” declares the Lord God. 31 “As for you, My sheep, the sheep of My pasture, you are men, and I am your God,” declares the Lord God.


Continued ...

iouae
November 17th, 2017, 10:18 PM
That you cannot admit your theology limits GOD's eternal love, HIS eternal patience and HIS never ending kindness to 70 years is my problem.

You are right that it is your problem.


Psa 148:4
Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Psa 148:5
Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
Psa 148:6
He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass.
Psa 148:7
Praise the LORD from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:
Psa 148:8
Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word:
Psa 148:9
Mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars:
Psa 148:10
Beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl:

Psa 148:11
Kings of the earth, and all people; princes, and all judges of the earth:
Psa 148:12
Both young men, and maidens; old men, and children:

Psa 148:13
Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven.

God tells us that everything which has life should thank Him, because it is a great blessing.
It is a demonstration of God's love, and they all live for greater and shorter lengths of time. And animals have no further expectation of life after death, yet they too should be grateful.

But only ttruscott has a problem with man living 70 years. In your head, and there alone, you find fault with God's love. God is not obliged to give all men eternal life. You are inventing the rules for yourself as to God's love.

God's Truth
November 17th, 2017, 10:21 PM
Therefore, it is normally obvious that Peter is writing to some apostatized (gone astray) Christians (people of the flock).

Now when Jesus came, he came for the lost sheep of Israel.
He came for the sheep who repented of their sins. John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus and the lost sheep had to repent of their sins before the Savior would come for them. See Luke 1:76-80.

The Jews had the covenant with God, the old law, and it did not require faith to obey.
God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not have faith before Jesus came, and the Jews who did have faith, they believed in Jesus.

Those who were cut off when Jesus came, they are the ones who have to be grafted back in.


Ask for any scriptures if you need to see them.





It is also normally apparent that what he was writing is intended for every new convert in every age since.

The Jews who were cut off from the sheep, they were bound over to where the Gentiles were. God bound everyone to the same condemnation; hell bound. The only way any can be saved now would be through Jesus.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.





Therefore, it seems normal that the Holy Spirit would have us believe that all of the Church has personally apostatized from Christ prior to their conversion in this life. Since we are conceived as sinners, it is easy to see that we apostatized from Christ before our conception and that is why we are sinners at our birth.
Well, it happened in the garden of Eden because of Adam. We all inherited the human propensity to sin. Not all sin the same, but all must learn about God and be taught; no one just knows God.





I think that Peter bore added witness to this fact in 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ ...which ...hath begotten us again unto a lively hope... Just when was the first time you were begotten by GOD? And when did you get unbegotten? Well, unless you are one of those earthly backslidden types, the only time such an un-begetting or rebellion could have taken place is prior to your conception.
No. You are confusing discussion about the nature of humans and those who came and lived before us with our personally living before we were born on earth.





And since Peter is writing to the whole Church rather than to just the backslidden types, he must be referring to a preconception rebellion and the straying of HIS elect since that time, which straying or rebellion ends only upon conversion to obedience unto holiness to that Shepherd, that is, upon being born in Christ (begotten) again.
See this is what I explained to you before about the Jews, the sheep who were CUT OFF and hardened when Jesus came. They were bound to the place the disobedient Gentiles were. Now though, since Jesus was crucified, even they could be grafted back in.
God will let those cut off people come back. And, Jesus will let all people come to him.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.





Done! Now, what do you teach that RETURN means in these verses...esp Psalm 9:17 just for my edification, of course.

I hope you have better understanding now. I really am just trying to help. All I want is God’s Truth and want to help others to know God better. If you would like to discuss more about it I would be glad to do so.

Robert Pate
November 18th, 2017, 12:59 PM
Now when Jesus came, he came for the lost sheep of Israel.
He came for the sheep who repented of their sins. John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus and the lost sheep had to repent of their sins before the Savior would come for them. See Luke 1:76-80.

The Jews had the covenant with God, the old law, and it did not require faith to obey.
God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not have faith before Jesus came, and the Jews who did have faith, they believed in Jesus.

Those who were cut off when Jesus came, they are the ones who have to be grafted back in.


Ask for any scriptures if you need to see them.




The Jews who were cut off from the sheep, they were bound over to where the Gentiles were. God bound everyone to the same condemnation; hell bound. The only way any can be saved now would be through Jesus.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.



Well, it happened in the garden of Eden because of Adam. We all inherited the human propensity to sin. Not all sin the same, but all must learn about God and be taught; no one just knows God.



No. You are confusing discussion about the nature of humans and those who came and lived before us with our personally living before we were born on earth.



See this is what I explained to you before about the Jews, the sheep who were CUT OFF and hardened when Jesus came. They were bound to the place the disobedient Gentiles were. Now though, since Jesus was crucified, even they could be grafted back in.
God will let those cut off people come back. And, Jesus will let all people come to him.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.




I hope you have better understanding now. I really am just trying to help. All I want is God’s Truth and want to help others to know God better. If you would like to discuss more about it I would be glad to do so.

You sound more like a Calvinist than a Christian. People are cut off because the don't believe. God cuts no one off, they cut themselves off because they don't believe.

God's Truth
November 18th, 2017, 01:07 PM
You sound more like a Calvinist than a Christian. People are cut off because the don't believe. God cuts no one off, they cut themselves off because they don't believe.

Reply to what I said and stop doing what unsaved beloved57 does.

Stop giving your mote false statements to everything anyone says.

Robert Pate
November 18th, 2017, 01:13 PM
Reply to what I said and stop doing what unsaved beloved57 does.

Stop giving your mote false statements to everything anyone says.


You implied that God cuts some off. The only reason that anyone is cut off is because they don't believe the Gospel.

God's Truth
November 18th, 2017, 04:03 PM
You implied that God cuts some off. The only reason that anyone is cut off is because they don't believe the Gospel.

No it is because they do not keep believing and obeying.

ttruscott
November 18th, 2017, 04:13 PM
To sow is when one speaks the gospel, it is as throwing seed around; and whoever is interested in what they hear is someone in whom the seed landed and can either grow to eternal life or not.

The parable Matt 13:36 in His EXPLANATION ie, no hyperbole, no metaphor, no analogy, says that the good seed are THE PEOPLE OF THE KINGDOM SOWN INTO THE WORLD BY THE SON OF MAN and it says that the tares are the people of the evil one sown into the world by the devil. ...just like a farmer scatters seeds of grain.It is the parable of the sower that speaks of seed, the parable of the good seed and the weeds has the seeds being people... and they are sown as sinners from the git go, not after they have lived and done evil. Since none are good, the good seed cannot be morally good since they are sinners liable to be pulled up in the judgement against the tares, so good must be a status word denoting their relationship with GOD, ie, as one of HIS elect.

ttruscott
November 18th, 2017, 04:18 PM
In scriptures that are harder to understand, one should study other translations and decide reasonably.

King James Bible
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

King James 2000 Bible
The wicked shall be turned into sheol, and all the nations that forget God.

You should know better than judge a verse on the use of the English...the KJV tried to morph this phrase to hide the fact they return but no one was fooled... Go to Strongs...

God's Truth
November 18th, 2017, 04:26 PM
You should know better than judge a verse on the use of the English...the KJV tried to morph this phrase to hide the fact they return but no one was fooled... Go to Strongs...

Are you kidding? Mr. Strong is just a man. He is not in the Bible.

God brings His gospel to people in their language.

ttruscott
November 18th, 2017, 04:44 PM
http://theologyonline.com/images/metro/blue/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by ttruscott http://theologyonline.com/images/metro/blue/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?p=5132661#post5132661)
1 Peter 2:25 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/1%20Pet%202.25) For ye were as sheep going astray: but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. Well, to return, one must have been there before, at least, according to the normal use of the word. Therefore, in this verse, it would be normal to infer that the sheep that had gone astray, were, at one time part of the Shepherd's flock but had strayed away from HIS care. Since I am sure that the Shepherd was not negligent, the straying away from HIS care must involve some rebellion.




Well, the shepherds were the one at fault in that case.
The lost sheep were actually the sheep that did not rebel.

Ezekiel 34

Prophecy against the Shepherds of Israel

1 Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel.

Sure there were bad human shepherds who were cursed but Peter is NOT talking about them. These sheep in 1 Peter 2:25 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/1%20Pet%202.25) whoever they were returned to the Shepherd and so no mistake can be made about who this is, He is named as the Bishop of their souls. Peter is NOT talking about Jewish leaders failing in their duties but Christians as the context of the phrase shows clearly: 23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

If you can make this Shepherd the Bishop of our soul to be a false shepherd who betrayed the flock just to avoid dealing with the fact that going astray into our sins means we were in His flock then left and that our conversion is a true return to Him, our Saviour, then I am beat.

ttruscott
November 18th, 2017, 04:56 PM
...I hope you have better understanding now. I really am just trying to help. All I want is God’s Truth and want to help others to know God better. If you would like to discuss more about it I would be glad to do so.

You haven't read 1 Peter 2 in full context recently, have you. It is no more about Jews being cut off than my left ear. It is about people being astray in sin and being encouraged to return to Christ to be holy.

ttruscott
November 18th, 2017, 05:19 PM
Are you kidding? Mr. Strong is just a man. He is not in the Bible.

God brings His gospel to people in their language.
A short perusal of common interpretations:




Psalm 9:17 ► (http://biblehub.com/psalms/9-18.htm)








Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version (http://biblehub.com/niv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked go down to the realm of the dead, all the nations that forget God.


New Living Translation (http://biblehub.com/nlt/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked willgo down to the grave. This is the fate of all the nations who ignore God.


English Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/esv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall return to Sheol, all the nations that forget God.


New American Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/nasb/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.


King James Bible (http://biblehub.com/kjv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/hcsb/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked will return to Sheol-- all the nations that forget God.


International Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/isv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked will turn back to where the dead are — all the nations that have forgotten God.


NET Bible (http://biblehub.com/net/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked are turned back and sent to Sheol; this is the destiny of all the nations that ignore God,


New Heart English Bible (http://biblehub.com/nheb/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned back to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.


Aramaic Bible in Plain English (http://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall turn back to Sheol, and all the peoples that forget God


GOD'S WORD® Translation (http://biblehub.com/gwt/psalms/9.htm)
Wicked people, all the nations who forget God, will return to the grave.


JPS Tanakh 1917 (http://biblehub.com/jps/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall return to the nether-world, Even all the nations that forget God.


New American Standard 1977 (http://biblehub.com/nasb77/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked will return to Sheol,
Even all the nations who forget God.


Jubilee Bible 2000 (http://biblehub.com/jub/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be put into Sheol, all the Gentiles that forget God.


King James 2000 Bible (http://biblehub.com/kj2000/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into sheol, and all the nations that forget God.


American King James Version (http://biblehub.com/akjv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


American Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/asv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned back unto Sheol, Even all the nations that forget God.


Douay-Rheims Bible (http://biblehub.com/drb/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into hell, all the nations that forget God.


Darby Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/dbt/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into Sheol, all the nations that forget God.


English Revised Version (http://biblehub.com/erv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall return to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.


Webster's Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/wbt/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


World English Bible (http://biblehub.com/web/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned back to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.


Young's Literal Translation (http://biblehub.com/ylt/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked do turn back to Sheol, All nations forgetting God.




So you scorn Strong's because he disagrees with your theology? Here is the Hebrew concordance for your edification:
Psalm 9:17
HEB: יָשׁ֣וּבוּ רְשָׁעִ֣ים לִשְׁא֑וֹלָה
The wicked will return to Sheol,
will return the wicked to Sheol

and the same word is also to be turned back (not away from) as in to return, in Psalm 59:6 (http://biblehub.com/text/psalms/59-6.htm) and Psalm 70:3 (http://biblehub.com/text/psalms/70-3.htm) so those quotes with 'turn back' are in essential agreement with return, not to be turned into...

iouae
November 18th, 2017, 05:26 PM
God spent an awful lot of time in the OT opening and closing wombs, keeping folks like Ab from having babies, enabling Sarai to conceive at age 90, not allowing Rachel to conceive while blessing Leah because she was so disliked by Jacob.

Other womb activities include Rebeckah with Esau and Jacob, even Joseph with Ephraim and Manasseh where the younger was to exceed the elder from the beginning.

Then David was born to replace Saul.
Jeremiah was chosen before he was born.

Then of course John the baptist and Christ's miraculous birth.

To me it is obvious that God is choosing breeding pairs as any farmer chooses breeding stock for a particular purpose. Even the flood was intended to remove the breed of Nephilim where the "Sons of God" interbred with "the daughters of men", polluting the Homo sapiens bloodline.

The fact that God worked so hard at this selective breeding, especially with the 12 tribes of Israel, making sure the Ab, Isaac and Jacob all had wives from the same stock, show that God is prepared to invest an inordinate amount of effort in His selective human breeding program.

This in fact demonstrates the process of predestination.
Suppose a horse breeder wants a fast horse. He chooses two likely horses to breed racing horses.
Likewise, God had a certain bloodline in mind for ancient Israel. And Revelation tells us that God is going to surround New Jerusalem with Israelites, and that the gates to New Jerusalem all are named after the tribes of Israel, but Dan loses out - again another God choice.

This is exactly what predestination means. God works hard to achieve an effect. In this way He can prophesy "this is what will be" and then He can work to make it come to pass.

Just as there is no spookiness here in the form of knowing the future, there is exactly the same lack of spookiness in horse breeding. Yet a horse breeder achieves his goal inevitably, with enough resources. And nobody has resources like God.

And just as horse breeding has some hit-and-miss randomness about it, so the Bible is FULL of the hit-and-miss successes and failures of God in achieving His purposes. At one point, but for Moses, God might have thrown the petri dish of Israel into the garbage, and made Moses a great nation. Only Moses prevented that disaster.

God does not have to know the future to predestinate. He just has the power to work at something for as long as it takes to achieve His goal. And God has the time.

Pate is right that Calvinistic predestination is a non-starter.

Robert Pate
November 18th, 2017, 06:20 PM
God spent an awful lot of time in the OT opening and closing wombs, keeping folks like Ab from having babies, enabling Sarai to conceive at age 90, not allowing Rachel to conceive while blessing Leah because she was so disliked by Jacob.

Other womb activities include Rebeckah with Esau and Jacob, even Joseph with Ephraim and Manasseh where the younger was to exceed the elder from the beginning.

Then David was born to replace Saul.
Jeremiah was chosen before he was born.

Then of course John the baptist and Christ's miraculous birth.

To me it is obvious that God is choosing breeding pairs as any farmer chooses breeding stock for a particular purpose. Even the flood was intended to remove the breed of Nephilim where the "Sons of God" interbred with "the daughters of men", polluting the Homo sapiens bloodline.

The fact that God worked so hard at this selective breeding, especially with the 12 tribes of Israel, making sure the Ab, Isaac and Jacob all had wives from the same stock, show that God is prepared to invest an inordinate amount of effort in His selective human breeding program.

This in fact demonstrates the process of predestination.
Suppose a horse breeder wants a fast horse. He chooses two likely horses to breed racing horses.
Likewise, God had a certain bloodline in mind for ancient Israel. And Revelation tells us that God is going to surround New Jerusalem with Israelites, and that the gates to New Jerusalem all are named after the tribes of Israel, but Dan loses out - again another God choice.

This is exactly what predestination means. God works hard to achieve an effect. In this way He can prophesy "this is what will be" and then He can work to make it come to pass.

Just as there is no spookiness here in the form of knowing the future, there is exactly the same lack of spookiness in horse breeding. Yet a horse breeder achieves his goal inevitably, with enough resources. And nobody has resources like God.

And just as horse breeding has some hit-and-miss randomness about it, so the Bible is FULL of the hit-and-miss successes and failures of God in achieving His purposes. At one point, but for Moses, God might have thrown the petri dish of Israel into the garbage, and made Moses a great nation. Only Moses prevented that disaster.

God does not have to know the future to predestinate. He just has the power to work at something for as long as it takes to achieve His goal. And God has the time.

Pate is right that Calvinistic predestination is a non-starter.


In the old Testament era God was bringing forth a nation and a people from whom the savior of the world would come. Now that the savior has arrived God is no longer a respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. It is God's will now that we all become conformed to the image of his Son, Romans 8:29.

True or False
November 18th, 2017, 08:33 PM
Calvinism is in direct conflict with the Bible the Gospel and justification by faith.

There are just to many scriptures that I would have to reject to become a Calvinist. Here are some of them.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

I believe that John was closer to Jesus than some of the other apostles and that John would not twist the words of Jesus in order to deceive us. And then Paul confirms what John says when he wrote,

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

When it comes to the Gospel and justification by faith there is no conflict in the scriptures. It is only when we start to deny that Jesus is the savior of the world that the trouble starts. You cannot be a Calvinist and believe that Jesus has atoned for the sins of the whole world.

Are we going to believe John or are we going to believe Calvinism? John wrote, "And he is a propitiation for our sins: and not ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2.

And then John wrote again, "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the savior of the world" 1 John 4:14.

If Jesus did not atone for the sins of the whole world, then there is no hope for anyone. If Jesus did not defeat sin, death and the devil, then all is lost. The reason that Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of God is because Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil.

The scripture confirms this, "And having spoiles principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it" Colossians 2:15.

If Jesus did not defeat sin, death and the devil, then Jesus is not Lord. If Jesus is not Lord then he should be removed from his position at the right hand of God in heaven. If Jesus did not defeat sin, death and the devil and is not the savior of the whole world then we are all still in our sins.

There are some things in the Bible that are very important. One of them is that Jesus is the savior of the whole world and has defeated sin, death and the devil. If you don't believe that, then you have a savior that is a failure. You can't be saved by a Jesus that is a failure.

Calvinist want us to deny that Jesus is the savior of the world. To deny that Jesus is the savior of the world is to deny the Gospel and justification by faith. This is exactly what the devil wants you to do.
Everything is already determined before it takes place.

True or false?

Robert Pate
November 18th, 2017, 08:59 PM
Everything is already determined before it takes place.

True or false?


False. God is not a robot, nor are we robots. When it comes to salvation that has ALREADY been resolved by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that... "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved, Romans 10:13.

True or False
November 18th, 2017, 09:09 PM
False. God is not a robot, nor are we robots. When it comes to salvation that has ALREADY been resolved by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that... "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved, Romans 10:13.

Can you name one thing that is not predetermined by anything else?

True or false?

Robert Pate
November 18th, 2017, 09:21 PM
Can you name one thing that is not predetermined by anything else?

True or false?

Like I said, the Gospel of Jesus Christ has ALREADY been predetermined. Everything else is subject to change. We live in an uncertain world.

True or False
November 18th, 2017, 09:22 PM
Like I said, the Gospel of Jesus Christ has ALREADY been predetermined. Everything else is subject to change. We live in an uncertain world.

If God is all knowing then nothing is uncertain.

True or false?

Robert Pate
November 18th, 2017, 09:31 PM
If God is all knowing then nothing is uncertain.

True or false?

You are assuming that God is in control of this world. Where did you get that idea? 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.

True or False
November 18th, 2017, 09:37 PM
You are assuming that God is in control of this world. Where did you get that idea? 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.
Even If God gave control of this world to some other
He already knew what would take place henceforth.

True or false?

God's Truth
November 18th, 2017, 11:39 PM
A short perusal of common interpretations:




Psalm 9:17 ► (http://biblehub.com/psalms/9-18.htm)








Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version (http://biblehub.com/niv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked go down to the realm of the dead, all the nations that forget God.


New Living Translation (http://biblehub.com/nlt/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked willgo down to the grave. This is the fate of all the nations who ignore God.


English Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/esv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall return to Sheol, all the nations that forget God.


New American Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/nasb/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked will return to Sheol, Even all the nations who forget God.


King James Bible (http://biblehub.com/kjv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (http://biblehub.com/hcsb/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked will return to Sheol-- all the nations that forget God.


International Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/isv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked will turn back to where the dead are — all the nations that have forgotten God.


NET Bible (http://biblehub.com/net/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked are turned back and sent to Sheol; this is the destiny of all the nations that ignore God,


New Heart English Bible (http://biblehub.com/nheb/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned back to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.


Aramaic Bible in Plain English (http://biblehub.com/aramaic-plain-english/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall turn back to Sheol, and all the peoples that forget God


GOD'S WORD® Translation (http://biblehub.com/gwt/psalms/9.htm)
Wicked people, all the nations who forget God, will return to the grave.


JPS Tanakh 1917 (http://biblehub.com/jps/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall return to the nether-world, Even all the nations that forget God.


New American Standard 1977 (http://biblehub.com/nasb77/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked will return to Sheol,
Even all the nations who forget God.


Jubilee Bible 2000 (http://biblehub.com/jub/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be put into Sheol, all the Gentiles that forget God.


King James 2000 Bible (http://biblehub.com/kj2000/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into sheol, and all the nations that forget God.


American King James Version (http://biblehub.com/akjv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


American Standard Version (http://biblehub.com/asv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned back unto Sheol, Even all the nations that forget God.


Douay-Rheims Bible (http://biblehub.com/drb/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into hell, all the nations that forget God.


Darby Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/dbt/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into Sheol, all the nations that forget God.


English Revised Version (http://biblehub.com/erv/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall return to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.


Webster's Bible Translation (http://biblehub.com/wbt/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.


World English Bible (http://biblehub.com/web/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked shall be turned back to Sheol, even all the nations that forget God.


Young's Literal Translation (http://biblehub.com/ylt/psalms/9.htm)
The wicked do turn back to Sheol, All nations forgetting God.




So you scorn Strong's because he disagrees with your theology? Here is the Hebrew concordance for your edification:
Psalm 9:17
HEB: יָשׁ֣וּבוּ רְשָׁעִ֣ים לִשְׁא֑וֹלָה
The wicked will return to Sheol,
will return the wicked to Sheol

and the same word is also to be turned back (not away from) as in to return, in Psalm 59:6 (http://biblehub.com/text/psalms/59-6.htm) and Psalm 70:3 (http://biblehub.com/text/psalms/70-3.htm) so those quotes with 'turn back' are in essential agreement with return, not to be turned into...

Again, Mr. Strong is not a prophet, not an apostle, not even a disciple in the Bible.
I debate the written scriptures that are preserved by God and Mr. Strong is not the deciding factor.

Strong even committed to a denomination. False denominations have demonic influence.

God's Truth
November 18th, 2017, 11:44 PM
You haven't read 1 Peter 2 in full context recently, have you. It is no more about Jews being cut off than my left ear. It is about people being astray in sin and being encouraged to return to Christ to be holy.

Take it slower. Jesus had already came by the time Peter writes what he does, and Jesus has already been crucified. Peter is speaking to people who are being evangelized. Peter is not speaking to the lost sheep of Israel WHO ALREADY KNEW they had to repent and repented with John's baptism of repentance.

You really think I haven't read 1 Peter 2 lately? Think again and be more careful.

God's Truth
November 18th, 2017, 11:48 PM
Sure there were bad human shepherds who were cursed but Peter is NOT talking about them. These sheep in 1 Peter 2:25 (https://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/1%20Pet%202.25) whoever they were returned to the Shepherd and so no mistake can be made about who this is, He is named as the Bishop of their souls. Peter is NOT talking about Jewish leaders failing in their duties but Christians as the context of the phrase shows clearly: 23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 “He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” 25 For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

If you can make this Shepherd the Bishop of our soul to be a false shepherd who betrayed the flock just to avoid dealing with the fact that going astray into our sins means we were in His flock then left and that our conversion is a true return to Him, our Saviour, then I am beat.

You are getting upset because the truth is making you see that your beliefs are false.

God's Truth
November 18th, 2017, 11:55 PM
You implied that God cuts some off. The only reason that anyone is cut off is because they don't believe the Gospel.

You don't even know that God cut off and hardened Jews before Jesus started his earthly ministry?

iouae
November 19th, 2017, 12:13 AM
In the old Testament era God was bringing forth a nation and a people from whom the savior of the world would come. Now that the savior has arrived God is no longer a respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. It is God's will now that we all become conformed to the image of his Son, Romans 8:29.

Exactly.

1Ti 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

This passage in Timothy goes completely against Calvinistic predestination which would have only those predestined to be saved.

And it shows that God does not get ALL that He wants. Some are not saved.
And the parable of the sower explains why not all are saved, time and chance being one of these factors.

God's Truth
November 19th, 2017, 12:15 AM
The parable Matt 13:36 in His EXPLANATION ie, no hyperbole, no metaphor, no analogy, says that the good seed are THE PEOPLE OF THE KINGDOM SOWN INTO THE WORLD BY THE SON OF MAN and it says that the tares are the people of the evil one sown into the world by the devil. ...just like a farmer scatters seeds of grain.It is the parable of the sower that speaks of seed, the parable of the good seed and the weeds has the seeds being people... and they are sown as sinners from the git go, not after they have lived and done evil. Since none are good,

You are wrong there because the Bible says that some are good.




the good seed cannot be morally good since they are sinners liable to be pulled up in the judgement against the tares, so good must be a status word denoting their relationship with GOD, ie, as one of HIS elect.
You are really off. If you were more careful that would not have happened.

So let's discuss this further.

This is the parable of the sower explained:

Matthew 13:18-23

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:


19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

Can you see by now how you are mistaking the seed to be people? The seed is the words of God, and where the seeds fall represent people.



21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

You could be all those places (people) at one time or another in your life, but Jesus tells you how to be the one with a good heart and so be saved.

I want to help those who do not understand and the devil takes what they had. I am the enemy of the devil because I understand what Jesus teaches and I want to help others.

God's Truth
November 19th, 2017, 12:23 AM
You should know better than judge a verse on the use of the English...the KJV tried to morph this phrase to hide the fact they return but no one was fooled... Go to Strongs...

Your conspiracy theory only hurts people seeking His Truth.

God's Truth
November 19th, 2017, 12:26 AM
You are assuming that God is in control of this world. Where did you get that idea? 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.

You need to check your beliefs. How do you get that God is not the one over everything?

Robert Pate
November 19th, 2017, 04:35 PM
You need to check your beliefs. How do you get that God is not the one over everything?

You apparently believe that God is the minister of sin.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished by his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:15. But you don't believe that.

True or False
November 19th, 2017, 04:41 PM
Your conspiracy theory only hurts people seeking His Truth.

He is the blind leading the blind as recorded in the bile.

Matthew 15:14
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind.
And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

True or false?

Evil.Eye.*{@}*
November 19th, 2017, 04:49 PM
He is the blind leading the blind as recorded in the bile.

Matthew 15:14
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind.
And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

True or false?

False

John 5:39


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Evil.Eye.*{@}*
November 19th, 2017, 04:54 PM
You are wrong there because the Bible says that some are good.


You are really off. If you were more careful that would not have happened.

So let's discuss this further.

This is the parable of the sower explained:

Matthew 13:18-23

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:


19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.

Can you see by now how you are mistaking the seed to be people? The seed is the words of God, and where the seeds fall represent people.



You could be all those places (people) at one time or another in your life, but Jesus tells you how to be the one with a good heart and so be saved.

I want to help those who do not understand and the devil takes what they had. I am the enemy of the devil because I understand what Jesus teaches and I want to help others.

Luke 18:19 Only God

Matthew 7:11 From the very “Mouth” of God...


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

God's Truth
November 19th, 2017, 06:05 PM
Luke 18:19 Only God

Matthew 7:11 From the very “Mouth” of God...


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

You don't know what those scriptures mean.

Would you like me to explain them for you?

God's Truth
November 19th, 2017, 06:07 PM
Luke 18:19 Only God

Matthew 7:11 From the very “Mouth” of God...


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

Let me first rebuke you with a scripture you say does not exist:

Matthew 12:35 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.


One scripture is not enough to rebuke you?

Here is another one:

Luke 8:15 “… these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”

God's Truth
November 19th, 2017, 06:10 PM
You apparently believe that God is the minister of sin.

God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been abolished by his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:15. But you don't believe that.

What in the world are you talking about? What in Hell are you saying those scriptures mean? According to you there is no more evil and no one goes to Hell?

The evil that happens God allowed it.

Do you really think that God can't stop something from happening?

True or False
November 19th, 2017, 06:11 PM
What in the world are you talking about?

The evil that happens God allowed it.

God created evil.

True or false?

God's Truth
November 19th, 2017, 06:16 PM
God created evil.

True or false?

You don't answer my questions so I will not discuss with you anymore.

True or False
November 19th, 2017, 06:18 PM
You don't answer my questions so I will not discuss with you anymore.

I am not responsible for what you do or do not do.

True or false?

Robert Pate
November 19th, 2017, 07:15 PM
What in the world are you talking about? What in Hell are you saying those scriptures mean? According to you there is no more evil and no one goes to Hell?

The evil that happens God allowed it.

Do you really think that God can't stop something from happening?

You are about as Gospel illiterate as they come. You have no idea what Christ has accomplished on behalf of humanity. God is through with humanity as far as salvation is concerned. Jesus has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man. The ball is now in humanities court. salvation always has been and always will be by faith alone.

True or False
November 19th, 2017, 07:18 PM
You are about as Gospel illiterate as they come. You have no idea what Christ has accomplished on behalf of humanity. God is through with humanity as far as salvation is concerned. Jesus has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man. The ball is now in humanities court. salvation always has been and always will be by faith alone.

The amount of faith you have acquired is determined
by the amount God has measured out unto you.

True or false?

meshak
November 19th, 2017, 07:42 PM
When I read your comments it seems make sense.

I have been detract by your "True or false" phrase; not paying attention to what's been said.

God's Truth
November 19th, 2017, 08:27 PM
You are about as Gospel illiterate as they come. You have no idea what Christ has accomplished on behalf of humanity. God is through with humanity as far as salvation is concerned. Jesus has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man. The ball is now in humanities court. salvation always has been and always will be by faith alone.

You correctly judged what you are, Gospel illiterate as they come.

Robert Pate
November 20th, 2017, 07:24 AM
You correctly judged what you are, Gospel illiterate as they come.

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus in your name and on your behalf has defeated sin, death and the devil and has met all of the requirements of God's Holy Law. You don't believe that, if you did you would not be the Pharisee that you are.

beloved57
November 20th, 2017, 10:17 AM
You are about as Gospel illiterate as they come. You have no idea what Christ has accomplished on behalf of humanity. God is through with humanity as far as salvation is concerned. Jesus has done all that he can do for the salvation of fallen man. The ball is now in humanities court. salvation always has been and always will be by faith alone.

False comments. You dont even believe sinners Christ died for are saved, and justified, and reconciled to God !

God's Truth
November 20th, 2017, 12:13 PM
The Gospel is the good news that Jesus in your name and on your behalf has defeated sin, death and the devil and has met all of the requirements of God's Holy Law. You don't believe that, if you did you would not be the Pharisee that you are.

The Pharisees did not repent of their sins---JUST LIKE YOU.

Just like you.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and the experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)


Did you read that?

They did not get baptized by John who was doing baptisms for REPENTANCE OF SINS.

YOU preach we do not have to repent of our sins to be saved and that we don't have to get water baptized. You are exactly like the Pharisees you falsely accuse me of being like. How ignorant.

beloved57
November 20th, 2017, 12:28 PM
The Gospel is the good news that Jesus in your name and on your behalf has defeated sin, death and the devil and has met all of the requirements of God's Holy Law. You don't believe that, if you did you would not be the Pharisee that you are.

You teach that sinners Christ tasted death for defeated sin for, the devil for, and met all Gods Law and Justice for, are still lost and condemned !

Nanja
November 20th, 2017, 06:02 PM
You teach that sinners Christ tasted death for defeated sin for, the devil for, and met all Gods Law and Justice for, are still lost and condemned !


Pate denies the efficacy of the Blood of Christ to save all whom it was shed for.

That's blasphemy, period Gal. 1:8!

ttruscott
November 21st, 2017, 01:26 AM
Matthew 13:18-23


Riiight, I refer to the parable of the good seed and the tares [Matt 13: 24-30 AND v36-43] and you give me a sermon on the parable of the sower ...very nice but a waste of my time. Anything to get a woozle hunt going though, eh?

Robert Pate
November 21st, 2017, 09:06 AM
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, Romans 1:16 not Calvinism or any religion.

There is no power in religion because there is no Holy Spirit in religion.

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 10:56 AM
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, Romans 1:16 not Calvinism or any religion.

There is no power in religion because there is no Holy Spirit in religion.

The power is in his words.

How do you get the power of his words if you don't obey the words?

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 11:01 AM
Riiight, I refer to the parable of the good seed and the tares [Matt 13: 24-30 AND v36-43] and you give me a sermon on the parable of the sower ...very nice but a waste of my time. Anything to get a woozle hunt going though, eh?

What don't you get about seeds make either wheat or weeds and according to where it falls? Why don't you get it that Jesus tells us how to be the right place to have the word grow good and not bad?

You are rude and I don't believe you are speaking knowledge by the Spirit.

You would rather think that the devil sired his own children in this world in a physical way. I am proving with scripture that your beliefs are false, but you want to dismiss the truth with insult.

Robert Pate
November 21st, 2017, 11:58 AM
The power is in his words.

How do you get the power of his words if you don't obey the words?

There is no power in law keeping. You have the same mind set as the Pharisees. They thought that they could please God by keeping the law. This is why Jesus referred to them as hypocrites. Much like you they say, but they don't do, Matthew 23:3.

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 12:39 PM
There is no power in law keeping.
The law is Spiritual and Christians uphold the law.

See Romans 3:31.



You have the same mind set as the Pharisees. They thought that they could please God by keeping the law. This is why Jesus referred to them as hypocrites. Much like you they say, but they don't do, Matthew 23:3.

You are laughable because according to you, the Pharisees kept the law but did not obey Jesus whom YOU SAY TAUGHT THE LAW.

Are you mentally okay?

You say the pharisee obeyed the law but did not obey Jesus who taught the law.

That is ridiculous nonsense.

ttruscott
November 21st, 2017, 01:14 PM
What don't you get about seeds make either wheat or weeds and according to where it falls? Why don't you get it that Jesus tells us how to be the right place to have the word grow good and not bad?. Your refusal to acknowledge the clear words of our Lord that in the parable of the good seed, THE SEEDS ARE PEOPLE, is amazing.


You are rude and I don't believe you are speaking knowledge by the Spirit. Don't sweat it...people often get emotional when a favourite concept is challenged. Your feel attacked personally so take my words as rude but others give me the Amen so...


You would rather think that the devil sired his own children in this world in a physical way. I am proving with scripture that your beliefs are false... Sire? SIRE?? No one said anything about siring as in having children in a genetic or family line of descendent!! Is that what you are on about?? You knee jerk an interpretation of my words, which are a phrase from the Bible, and attack me for 3 days?? And I am to trust that you are in the Spirit?

I claim only that the devil SOWS, speiras, the people of the evil one into the world the same or similar way that the Son of Man SOWS, speiró, the people of the kingdom into the world. That is what is written and if your theology cannot handle it, will it be crushed under it? We know that Adam (the first sinful elect) was 'sown' into the world on GOD's breath but we are not told by what method GOD has allowed the devil to use. Your assumption it is NOT through genetics is probably correct.

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 01:21 PM
Your refusal to acknowledge the clear words of our Lord that in the parable of the good seed, THE SEEDS ARE PEOPLE, is amazing.
hahaha So Paul is sowing seeds, ie, demon children and children of God? And Apollos is watering the demon children? And God is making them grow?!

1 Corinthians 3:6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow.


lol You better give that some more thought.


Read this scripture:

Matthew 13:20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.


Can't you see that the seed is the words of God and where the seed falls is what determines if it grows into something good?

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 01:32 PM
Don't sweat it...people often get emotional when a favourite concept is challenged. Your feel attacked personally so take my words as rude but others give me the Amen so...



Only in your imagination.

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 01:33 PM
Sire? SIRE?? No one said anything about siring as in having children in a genetic or family line of descendent!! Is that what you are on about?? You knee jerk an interpretation of my words, which are a phrase from the Bible, and attack me for 3 days?? And I am to trust that you are in the Spirit?

hahahaha Getting a little emotional? lol

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 01:36 PM
I claim only that the devil SOWS, speiras, the people of the evil one into the world the same or similar way that the Son of Man SOWS, speiró, the people of the kingdom into the world. That is what is written and if your theology cannot handle it, will it be crushed under it? We know that Adam (the first sinful elect) was 'sown' into the world on GOD's breath but we are not told by what method GOD has allowed the devil to use. Your assumption it is NOT through genetics is probably correct.

Probably correct? You just went against me for thinking that is what you were talking about. Looks like you were talking like that.

You don't remember saying we ALL LIVED IN HELL before coming to earth?

No one existed before they existed.

You are the one who says the seeds are people! What else am I supposed to think you said? I even questioned you about it and you persisted in saying the devil seeds the earth with evil people.

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 01:42 PM
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one,


The good seed stands for the people of the kingdom because they had good hearts and produced good fruit from the word of God.


Jesus tells us how to get saved.

He tells us how to have the kind of heart in which he will live.

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 01:56 PM
Your refusal to acknowledge the clear words of our Lord that in the parable of the good seed, THE SEEDS ARE PEOPLE, is amazing.

Luke 8:11
“This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.

Did you see and hear that?

THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD.





Don't sweat it...people often get emotional when a favourite concept is challenged. Your feel attacked personally so take my words as rude but others give me the Amen so...

Sire? SIRE?? No one said anything about siring as in having children in a genetic or family line of descendent!! Is that what you are on about?? You knee jerk an interpretation of my words, which are a phrase from the Bible, and attack me for 3 days?? And I am to trust that you are in the Spirit?

I claim only that the devil SOWS, speiras, the people of the evil one into the world the same or similar way that the Son of Man SOWS, speiró, the people of the kingdom into the world. That is what is written and if your theology cannot handle it, will it be crushed under it? We know that Adam (the first sinful elect) was 'sown' into the world on GOD's breath but we are not told by what method GOD has allowed the devil to use. Your assumption it is NOT through genetics is probably correct.

The devil does not bring people INTO THE WORLD as if people came from another world before coming here.

As for Adam, he was made with free will, and God knew he would sin. God made the plan for salvation to be through Jesus, He made that plan before He made anything.
God wanted us to choose to love Him. He could have made us all without the capability to sin, but then we would be like robots. God wanted us to choose to love Him.

The Bible says all became sinners because of Adam's sin. We all sin.

We are not brought here from another realm, or world, or whatever it is you are thinking.

ttruscott
November 21st, 2017, 02:56 PM
You don't remember saying we ALL LIVED IN HELL before coming to earth?


I said Sheol, ie Hades, not hell. Read your bible, Ps 9:17.

God's Truth
November 21st, 2017, 03:09 PM
I said Sheol, ie Hades, not hell. Read your bible, Ps 9:17.

Hell, Hades, Sheol---it is all the same Hell.

You need to study more.