PDA

View Full Version : The Throne of God and of the Lamb



Jerry Shugart
July 27th, 2015, 03:54 PM
The following verse is speaking of only "one" throne:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).

Here is what John saw and heard while he was at that throne, the throne of God and of the Lamb:


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).

Here we read the one on the throne saying, "I will be his God." This is God speaking and since there can only be ONE who is the beginning and the end and the Alpha and the Omega, then it cannot be denied that the one speaking is Jesus Christ:


"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).

These are the words of the Lord Jesus because He is the one who says, "I come quickly" (Rev.22:20).

There is only "One" on the Throne of God and the Lamb, and that proves that the Lord Jesus is God--the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the End.

Robert Pate
July 27th, 2015, 04:19 PM
The following verse is speaking of only "one" throne:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).

Here is what John saw and heard while he was at that throne, the throne of God and of the Lamb:


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).

Here we read the one on the throne saying, "I will be his God." This is God speaking and since there can only be ONE who is the beginning and the end and the Alpha and the Omega, then it cannot be denied that the one speaking is Jesus Christ:


"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).

These are the words of the Lord Jesus because He is the one who says, "I come quickly" (Rev.22:20).

There is only "One" on the Throne of God and the Lamb, and that proves that the Lord Jesus is God--the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the End.

Amen to that!

Jerry Shugart
August 4th, 2015, 02:19 PM
Amen to that!

Thanks, Robert!

HisServant
August 4th, 2015, 02:35 PM
The following verse is speaking of only "one" throne:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).

Here is what John saw and heard while he was at that throne, the throne of God and of the Lamb:


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).

Here we read the one on the throne saying, "I will be his God." This is God speaking and since there can only be ONE who is the beginning and the end and the Alpha and the Omega, then it cannot be denied that the one speaking is Jesus Christ:


"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).

These are the words of the Lord Jesus because He is the one who says, "I come quickly" (Rev.22:20).

There is only "One" on the Throne of God and the Lamb, and that proves that the Lord Jesus is God--the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the End.

Since your post is devoid of context and is only a cherry picking of discrete verses (they are also out of chronological order)... your message cannot be from God on this.

Jerry Shugart
August 4th, 2015, 02:47 PM
Since your post is devoid of context and is only a cherry picking of discrete verses (they are also out of chronological order)... your message cannot be from God on this.

Spoken by someone who is allergic to the truth of God and has no answer to the verses which I quoted.

HisServant
August 4th, 2015, 02:51 PM
Since your verses as they are mean absolutely nothing, there is really nothing for me to respond to.

Other than you have bastardized God's word and abbreviated what he was trying to say to make his words say what you want them to say.

Your tactics are exactly what Satan used on Eve in the garden.

If I try and take what you are saying at face value... it really doesn't provide enough support to actually 'prove' anything. One could say that since you are taking the verses in opposite order to 'prove' your point that they are actually disproving them.

As far as Jesus being God... all the proof that is needed from our perspective is that Jesus said that "whomever has seen him had seen the Father" Why go to such lengths to use a piece of scripture that was not meant to prove that Jesus is God to do so?

I'm really quite tired of people using scripture to teach things that the scripture was not meant to teach. Have you no respect for the Holy Spirits purpose in inspiration?

Jerry Shugart
August 4th, 2015, 05:08 PM
Since your verses as they are mean absolutely nothing, there is really nothing for me to respond to.

Just another of your excuses to explain why you are unable to prove anything I said is in error.

Since you have been unable to provide anything of substance you will not be missed.

Lazy afternoon
August 4th, 2015, 06:20 PM
Since your verses as they are mean absolutely nothing, there is really nothing for me to respond to.

Other than you have bastardized God's word and abbreviated what he was trying to say to make his words say what you want them to say.

Your tactics are exactly what Satan used on Eve in the garden.

If I try and take what you are saying at face value... it really doesn't provide enough support to actually 'prove' anything. One could say that since you are taking the verses in opposite order to 'prove' your point that they are actually disproving them.

As far as Jesus being God... all the proof that is needed from our perspective is that Jesus said that "whomever has seen him had seen the Father" Why go to such lengths to use a piece of scripture that was not meant to prove that Jesus is God to do so?

I'm really quite tired of people using scripture to teach things that the scripture was not meant to teach. Have you no respect for the Holy Spirits purpose in inspiration?

I agree.

Jerry makes things up to fit his fallen mind.

LA

Daniel1611
August 4th, 2015, 06:27 PM
I can't believe the divinity if Christ is even a debate. If you don't believe the clear biblical teaching that Jesus is God, you are far outside of orthodox Christianity. There are a million threads about this.

Lazy afternoon
August 4th, 2015, 06:35 PM
I can't believe the divinity if Christ is even a debate. If you don't believe the clear biblical teaching that Jesus is God, you are far outside of orthodox Christianity. There are a million threads about this.

Jesus is not God the Father as Jerry is trying to say.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

LA

achduke
August 4th, 2015, 07:02 PM
There is only "One" on the Throne of God and the Lamb, and that proves that the Lord Jesus is God--the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the End.



Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him.


Am I the only one that sees that Christ and God occupy the same physical location? That Christ being the temple had the Father there with him and in him? Does anyone not see that Rev 22:3 had both God the Father and Jesus Christ, two beings on one thrown? Does anyone else agree with this?

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 07:02 PM
The following verse is speaking of only "one" throne:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).

Here is what John saw and heard while he was at that throne, the throne of God and of the Lamb:


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).

Here we read the one on the throne saying, "I will be his God." This is God speaking and since there can only be ONE who is the beginning and the end and the Alpha and the Omega, then it cannot be denied that the one speaking is Jesus Christ:


"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).

These are the words of the Lord Jesus because He is the one who says, "I come quickly" (Rev.22:20).

There is only "One" on the Throne of God and the Lamb, and that proves that the Lord Jesus is God--the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the End.

I said
I see what your saying. But cant there be one throne and two seats?

Acts 2:32-33
32 "This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
(NKJ)

Heb 1:3
3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
(NKJ)

achduke
August 4th, 2015, 07:20 PM
I said
I see what your saying. But cant there be one throne and two seats?


I suppose a thrown can have more then one seat but how many people does Philip and Thomas see? Does he not see God and Christ together?



John 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"


Is Christ's body not a temple?



John 2:21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.


Does the Spirit not dwell in the temple?



1 Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 07:58 PM
I suppose a thrown can have more then one seat but how many people does Philip and Thomas see? Does he not see God and Christ together?



Is Christ's body not a temple?



Does the Spirit not dwell in the temple?

I said
Thomas knew that God was in Jesus. And Thomas was addressing both of them to keep from insulting one or the other.

achduke
August 4th, 2015, 08:14 PM
I said
Thomas knew that God was in Jesus. And Thomas was addressing both of them to keep from insulting one or the other.

I know some see it but most do not. We have been blinded for so long by the trinity and oneness doctrines that we do not see the kingdom of God.

Luke 17:21 "nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."

Jerry Shugart
August 4th, 2015, 11:12 PM
I see what your saying. But cant there be one throne and two seats?


John only saw One on the throne:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new" (Rev.21:5).

Lazy afternoon
August 5th, 2015, 09:44 PM
John only saw One on the throne:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new" (Rev.21:5).

No.

Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Jerry Shugart
August 6th, 2015, 11:04 AM
No.

Act 7:56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

There it is obvious that it is the Lord Jesus' role as "Man" which is in view (Son of Man) and not His role as "Son of God."

You still have not explained why John saw only ONE sitting on the Throne of God and of the Lamb:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new" (Rev.21:5).

Do you think that there can be two who can describe themselves as the Alpha and the Omega and the beginning and the end?

Lazy afternoon
August 7th, 2015, 02:56 AM
There it is obvious that it is the Lord Jesus' role as "Man" which is in view (Son of Man) and not His role as "Son of God."

You still have not explained why John saw only ONE sitting on the Throne of God and of the Lamb:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new" (Rev.21:5).

Do you think that there can be two who can describe themselves as the Alpha and the Omega and the beginning and the end?

Your view denies Gods son.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jerry Shugart
August 8th, 2015, 04:54 PM
Your view denies Gods son.

I proved my point and you were unable to show that anything which I said is in error.

Desert Reign
August 8th, 2015, 05:12 PM
The following verse is speaking of only "one" throne:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).
I am curious as to what you make of Rev 3:21?

glorydaz
August 8th, 2015, 05:30 PM
It's good to see you are still reading my posts, Jerry. Great idea for a thread. :chuckle:


You mean this one "throne" of God and the Lamb? "His" servants shall serve HIM....not them? Who is confused? :chuckle:


Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Jerry Shugart
August 8th, 2015, 05:58 PM
I am curious as to what you make of Rev 3:21?

The throne spoken of there there is the throne of David, and it speaks of an earthly reign:


"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory" (Mt.25:31).

aikido7
August 8th, 2015, 06:05 PM
The following verse is speaking of only "one" throne:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).

Here is what John saw and heard while he was at that throne, the throne of God and of the Lamb:


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).

Here we read the one on the throne saying, "I will be his God." This is God speaking and since there can only be ONE who is the beginning and the end and the Alpha and the Omega, then it cannot be denied that the one speaking is Jesus Christ:


"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).

These are the words of the Lord Jesus because He is the one who says, "I come quickly" (Rev.22:20).

There is only "One" on the Throne of God and the Lamb, and that proves that the Lord Jesus is God--the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the End.

What does this throne look like? Where is it located? Is it made of gold or what? How big do you think it is?

This is theology you are talking about. It has nothing to do with anything that is factually true.

Jerry Shugart
August 8th, 2015, 06:16 PM
What does this throne look like? Where is it located? Is it made of gold or what? How big do you think it is?

This is theology you are talking about. It has nothing to do with anything that is factually true.

The reference is to an earthly reign where the King will be ruling from the earth. The lack of a physical throne does not hinder a King from reigning in His kingdom.

God's Truth
August 8th, 2015, 11:41 PM
The following verse is speaking of only "one" throne:


"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (Rev.22:3).

Here is what John saw and heard while he was at that throne, the throne of God and of the Lamb:


"And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:5-7).

Here we read the one on the throne saying, "I will be his God." This is God speaking and since there can only be ONE who is the beginning and the end and the Alpha and the Omega, then it cannot be denied that the one speaking is Jesus Christ:


"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).

These are the words of the Lord Jesus because He is the one who says, "I come quickly" (Rev.22:20).

There is only "One" on the Throne of God and the Lamb, and that proves that the Lord Jesus is God--the Alpha and Omega and the Beginning and the End.

That is right, and it also proves Jesus is God the Father.

God's Truth
August 8th, 2015, 11:42 PM
I agree.

Jerry makes things up to fit his fallen mind.

LA

You are speaking another tongue, and it is called a false tongue.

God's Truth
August 8th, 2015, 11:44 PM
Am I the only one that sees that Christ and God occupy the same physical location? That Christ being the temple had the Father there with him and in him? Does anyone not see that Rev 22:3 had both God the Father and Jesus Christ, two beings on one thrown? Does anyone else agree with this?

I have been saying that for years. If you believe it what you just said, then you are NOT a trinitarian.

achduke
August 9th, 2015, 08:48 AM
I have been saying that for years. If you believe it what you just said, then you are NOT a trinitarian.

I am not a trin. You and I see differently. I see the Father IN Christ. You see Christ as the Father from what I can tell. Christ is the temple of God who is the Father. Christ is the cornerstone, the head of the church. The first of many living stones.

God's Truth
August 9th, 2015, 10:36 AM
I am not a trin. You and I see differently. I see the Father IN Christ. You see Christ as the Father from what I can tell. Christ is the temple of God who is the Father. Christ is the cornerstone, the head of the church. The first of many living stones.

Then think about this:

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

achduke
August 9th, 2015, 01:55 PM
Then think about this:

John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life.

The Father sends the Spirit of Truth who like Christ does not speak on his own but does what the Father tells him.

John 16:13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

John 15:26 "But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

John 14:17 "even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

aikido7
August 9th, 2015, 02:06 PM
Instead of talking about a throne in the sky with a lamb involved, why not just say that God is all-powerful and that the metaphor of the lamb according to the Gospel of John presents the idea that Jesus died on the cross innocently to redeem human sin?

This propensity of most believers to take their religious metaphors in some literal sense and couching them in dogmatic frameworks is no longer compelling or persuading to people today. If the faith in Jesus is to spread it must be communicated in such a way as to be understood by the modern mindset.

You are using ancient formulations in the 21st century and expect them to be swallowed whole.

It won't work.