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Bright Raven
July 27th, 2015, 01:36 PM
Slice it dice it, what do you think?

bybee
July 27th, 2015, 01:52 PM
Slice it dice it, what do you think?

I watched my husband draw his last breath. He seemed exactly the same but there was silence and stillness. Something was gone and where it went I have my faith to sustain me.

Grosnick Marowbe
July 27th, 2015, 01:56 PM
They go to be with the Lord.

Angel4Truth
July 27th, 2015, 02:20 PM
Slice it dice it, what do you think?

With the Lord.

RevTestament
July 27th, 2015, 02:20 PM
1 Peter 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I should add there is also a paradise where the just spirits go to await resurrection:

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

PureX
July 27th, 2015, 02:22 PM
It is a mystery.

Jerry Shugart
July 27th, 2015, 02:54 PM
Slice it dice it, what do you think?


"For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 1According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" (1 Thess.4:14-16).

When the Lord Jesus will meet the living saints in the air those who have passed away in Christ will be brought with Him.

That means that they are in heaven.

journey
July 27th, 2015, 03:08 PM
At the time of a Christian's death, he or she is absent from the body and present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 KJV 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight ) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Grosnick Marowbe
July 27th, 2015, 03:19 PM
At the time of a Christian's death, he or she is absent from the body and present with the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:6-8 KJV 6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight ) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Yep

Robert Pate
July 27th, 2015, 03:59 PM
They are not dead, they are sleeping.

"And then, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed. For this corruptable must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory? 1 Corinthians 15:52, 53, 54, 55.

Angel4Truth
July 27th, 2015, 04:04 PM
They are not dead, they are sleeping.

"And then, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed. For this corruptable must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory? 1 Corinthians 15:52, 53, 54, 55.

I dont see anything about sleep in that verse.

Robert Pate
July 27th, 2015, 04:10 PM
I dont see anything about sleep in that verse.

Don't be such a nit picker.

"Behold I show you a mystery : WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP, but we shall all be changed" 1 Corinthians 15:51.

Angel4Truth
July 27th, 2015, 04:21 PM
Don't be such a nit picker.

"Behold I show you a mystery : WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP, but we shall all be changed" 1 Corinthians 15:51.

We shall not all die, is a more appropriate translation - context begins with those who are alive.

journey
July 27th, 2015, 04:22 PM
Everyone needs to keep in mind that there's a difference between body, soul, and spirit. A Christian's body at death goes to the grave where it will remain until Jesus Christ raises and glorifies it at the Rapture.

Robert Pate
July 27th, 2015, 04:28 PM
We shall not all die, is a more appropriate translation - context begins with those who are alive.

We are all going to die, but for the Christian death is sleep.

Angel4Truth
July 27th, 2015, 04:28 PM
We are all going to die, but for the Christian death is sleep.

Their body, not their spirit.

serpentdove
July 27th, 2015, 04:32 PM
I watched my husband draw his last breath. He seemed exactly the same but there was silence and stillness. Something was gone and where it went I have my faith to sustain me.

Kept by the power of God (1 Pe 1:5). :cloud9:

tetelestai
July 27th, 2015, 04:33 PM
I dont see anything about sleep in that verse.

Lot's of Hyper-Dispensationalists believe in soul sleep.

Example:


But we do believe that the moment we die, it's as if we immediately awake at the Rapture.

tetelestai
July 27th, 2015, 04:36 PM
When the Lord Jesus will meet the living saints in the air those who have passed away in Christ will be brought with Him.

What kind of bodies are these saints in that allegedly come with Christ at the alleged rapture?

For example, the Apostle Paul physically died over 1,900 years ago. Where has he been since his death?

serpentdove
July 27th, 2015, 04:54 PM
[Sleep/death] Don't be such a nit picker.

"Behold I show you a mystery : WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP, but we shall all be changed" 1 Corinthians 15:51.

"1 Co 15:18 fallen asleep. A common euphemism for death (cf. vv. 6, 20; 11:30; Matt. 27:52; Acts 7:60; 2 Pet. 3:4). This is not soul sleep, in which the body dies and the soul, or spirit, supposedly rests in unconsciousness." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., p. 1755). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

serpentdove
July 27th, 2015, 04:56 PM
What kind of bodies are these saints in that allegedly come with Christ at the alleged rapture?

For example, the Apostle Paul physically died over 1,900 years ago. Where has he been since his death?

With the Lord--where he is (Lk 23:43, 2 Co 5:8).

serpentdove
July 27th, 2015, 05:01 PM
It is a mystery.

Our bodies will rise.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed [1 Cor. 15:51].

"What is a mystery? We have already discussed it several times. A mystery is something which had not been revealed in the Old Testament but is now revealed in the New Testament. It is something which you cannot learn by the eye–gate or the ear–gate. Nor has it entered into the heart of man—that is, it is not something many would have thought of. It is a fact which must be revealed by God.

“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep”—we are not all going down through the doorway of death. “But we shall all be changed.” Whether you die or don’t die, you must still be changed, friend. Sometimes we hear people say, “I hope I am alive at the coming of Christ; so I will just go into His presence.” Well, before any of us can go into His presence, we’ll have to be changed." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Epistles (1 Corinthians) (electronic ed., Vol. 44, pp. 189–190). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

Jacob
July 27th, 2015, 05:03 PM
We are all going to die, but for the Christian death is sleep.John 5:29 NASB - 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Acts 24:15 NASB - 15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

keypurr
July 28th, 2015, 07:26 PM
I will get my well deserved rest and he will come to wake me up.

Nick M
July 28th, 2015, 07:46 PM
I should add there is also a paradise where the just spirits go to await resurrection:


Why comment about the circumcision when we are not bound to it and its rules?

When a saint leaves his dead body, he is longer needed to "reckon himself". With the Lord, as the others have stated.

tetelestai
July 28th, 2015, 09:29 PM
With the Lord--where he is (Lk 23:43, 2 Co 5:8).

Where was Paradise in 30AD?

Where was/is Paradise today?

Aimiel
July 29th, 2015, 03:28 PM
If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

Jesus wasn't kidding. Those of us who believe in Him and keep His Saying shall never even SEE death.

oatmeal
July 29th, 2015, 04:40 PM
Slice it dice it, what do you think?

What does scripture say?

I Thessalonians 4:13-18


13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent [precede] them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

When will the dead be with the Lord? verse 16, when Jesus Christ returns to gather up the saints, the dead in Christ shall rise first.... so shall we ever be with the Lord

keypurr
May 7th, 2017, 05:22 PM
What is the state of the Dead?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.


All will be raised

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurre2ction of damnation.

Truster
May 8th, 2017, 01:03 AM
Slice it dice it, what do you think?

When the heart* takes the last beat and the last breath is exhaled. The spirit lives and so the faculties of the mind continue. The journey through time ends and the glorified saint experiences pure and unadulterated bliss. The bliss of exceeding blessing is a foretaste of this experience. That is why it is written,"O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"

heart* the blood pump

In the saints there are moments of exceeding and abundant blessings. Moments when one thinks that gravity is about to lose its grip and that glory can be the only destination. In contrast the wicked and the hypocrite have moments of dread and that dread is a stench of what lies in store for them.

Eternal bliss or eternal dread and terror.

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
May 8th, 2017, 01:53 AM
What kind of bodies are these saints in that allegedly come with Christ at the alleged rapture?

For example, the Apostle Paul physically died over 1,900 years ago. Where has he been since his death?

Php. 1:23 But I am pressed between the two, having the desire to depart and to be with Christ, indeed very much better

The stoning of Steven tells you as well.

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
May 8th, 2017, 01:58 AM
We are all going to die, but for the Christian death is sleep.

Php. 1:24 "But I am pressed between the two, having the desire to depart and to be with Christ, indeed very much better"

You'll be going home that day Robert.

oatmeal
May 8th, 2017, 04:29 AM
Slice it dice it, what do you think?

Scripture clearly teaches there is no consciousness in death.

Until a dead person is raised or resurrected, they remain dead, they are not alive in any way, shape or form.

patrick jane
May 8th, 2017, 05:00 AM
I dont see anything about sleep in that verse.
and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

Tambora
May 8th, 2017, 06:07 AM
Why comment about the circumcision when we are not bound to it and its rules?

When a saint leaves his dead body, he is longer needed to "reckon himself". With the Lord, as the others have stated.Yeppers.

Hawkins
May 8th, 2017, 07:08 AM
They are not dead, they are sleeping.


I believe so. The wicked will remain awaken though.

I can even tell what to be expected, you may consider this a prophecy;

I (my soul) was pulled up to an almost sit-up position. Then I saw two orange squares, a larger one and a smaller one. The larger one is on top of the smaller one. I looked at that two squares with curiosity, while seeing beams of orange lights emitting from me and going upward. I was then dropped back to the bed and I believed that I had been put to a deep sleep till the very end comes, while I perceived no time in between.

Truster
May 8th, 2017, 07:11 AM
I believe so. The wicked will remain awaken though.

I can even tell what to be expected, you may consider this a prophecy;

I (my soul) was pulled up to an almost sit-up position. Then I saw two orange squares, a larger one and a smaller one. The larger one is on top of the smaller one. I looked at that two squares with curiosity, while seeing beams of orange lights emitting from me and going upward. I was then dropped back to the bed and I believed that I had been put to a deep sleep till the very end comes, while I perceived no time in between.

Nutter.

tetelestai
May 9th, 2017, 03:50 PM
and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

In the above passage, Jesus does NOT bring "those who have fallen asleep" back to planet earth like you Darby Followers claim. Jesus takes them to the kingdom.

Angel4Truth
May 9th, 2017, 05:48 PM
They are not dead, they are sleeping.

"And then, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed. For this corruptable must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory? 1 Corinthians 15:52, 53, 54, 55.


I dont see anything about sleep in that verse.


and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

You are quoting 1 Thessalonians 4:14 - a totally different verse than i responded to. Lets look at yours though and see what it really says:


There are two significant words in the Greek New Testament for the English term “sleep.” Each of these is used both literally and figuratively, that is, for natural sleep, and also as a symbol for death.

The term katheudo occurs 22 times in the New Testament. In a literal sense it is used of “natural sleep” (Mt. 13:25; 25:5).

The term is employed with reference to death in only one passage. The daughter of a Jewish synagogue ruler, whose name was Jairus, had died (Mk. 5:35). Christ was bidden to the place where the girl was. When he arrived at the home, the Lord confidently said: “the child is not dead, but is sleeping” (v. 39).

That the maiden actually was dead admits of no doubt. The Savior used the term “sleep” figuratively, in view of the fact that this death was to be a temporary heartache. He then raised the twelve-year-old girl from her state of death. Luke says that her “spirit returned” and she rose up immediately (Lk. 8:55).

Another term in the New Testament for “sleep” is koimaomai (a form of koimao). The word is found 18 times. While koimaomai may refer on occasion to normal sleep (Mt. 28:13; Lk. 22:45), predominately (15 of the 18 times) this word is used figuratively for the “sleep” of death (see Mt. 27:52; 1 Cor. 15:20; 1 Thes. 4:13-15).

This metaphorical use of “sleep,” to describe the death of a body, is ancient. It is found in classical Greek (e.g., Homer, Illiad 11.241; Sophocles, El.509; et al.) and in the Septuagint (e.g., 36 times in 2 Kgs. & Chron, as in “he slept with his fathers” — cf. 2 Kg. 14:16). https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/663-are-the-dead-asleep

The word used in your verse simply means dead/having died, not sleep as in sleep as you understand in english, a different greek word would be used if that were the actual meaning.

So, sorry, no such thing as soul sleep. Our Spirit stays alive and we are with Christ seated in heavenly places. Not snoring in the grave, unconscious.

patrick jane
May 9th, 2017, 07:40 PM
In the above passage, Jesus does NOT bring "those who have fallen asleep" back to planet earth like you Darby Followers claim. Jesus takes them to the kingdom.That's what I believe, I do not believe we come back to planet earth

jamie
May 9th, 2017, 08:36 PM
So, sorry, no such thing as soul sleep. Our Spirit stays alive and we are with Christ seated in heavenly places. Not snoring in the grave, unconscious.


If the Spirit stays alive what about the body? As you know the brain is in the body.

If there is no body there is no brain to process inputs. This is a no-brainer.