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Jerry Shugart
July 25th, 2015, 08:16 AM
There are some people on this forum who deny that the doctrine found in the Hebrew Epistles are for those in the Body of Christ.

But were not all the believers who received those epistles in the Body? Let us determine to whom 1 Corinthians was addressed. Paul wrote:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so Paul's words in this epistle applies to them. And here is what he told every Israelite believer in every place:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

There can be no doubt whatsoever that all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place must include all of the believers among the Israelites so they were told that they were baptized into the Body of Christ.

Perhaps there is at least one person among those who deny that the Hebrew epistles contain doctrine for the Body of Christ will address these two verses from 1 Corinthians?

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 08:26 AM
Which are they Jerry--the Hebrew letters (plural)?

Jerry Shugart
July 25th, 2015, 08:30 AM
Which are they Jerry--the Hebrew letters (plural)?

The book of Hebrews through Jude.

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 08:34 AM
Never heard the expression or category before in 40 years of study. Not even that the namesake letter was only for them. I did notice of course that D'ist people had an extremely hard time handling it. Why would anyone think the Johns were just for them?

Once again, it shows how much steam is headed up on the most baseless of ideas and scotch-taped onto the Bible.

Jerry Shugart
July 25th, 2015, 08:44 AM
Never heard the expression or category before in 40 years of study.

Some call those epistles the "General Epistles."

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 08:57 AM
OK, that I've heard, but thought it as due to lack of 'responding to a situation' which made no sense about any of them (the appeal in Hebrews to believe during that generation; the antichrist spirits in Johns; the perverts in Jude). So I forgot about the designation as someone's amateur attempt.

nonanomanon
July 25th, 2015, 09:39 AM
There are some people on this forum who deny that the doctrine found in the Hebrew Epistles are for those in the Body of Christ.

But were not all the believers who received those epistles in the Body? Let us determine to whom 1 Corinthians was addressed. Paul wrote:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).


When the Tribe of Ephraim had the "Head of the Priesthood" title, the Hebrews were of one body with Christ, since Christ has a covenant with them for them to record the gospel, and they were still recording the gospel then. To further signify this, the name of the "Lord" was removed from the Book of Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. (Because the Antichrist's reign has already began, the Tribe of Joseph holds this title, not that Joseph is a priesthood tribe, God does not want to give the tribe of benjamin this title since its already used for heavenly salvation .......... God has not directly acted on Joseph holding this title, so that Aaron could finish its conviction as the technical "Head of the Priesthood", until the "Two Witnesses are slain.)

EPHESIANS 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
EPHESIANS 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

The name of the lord is removed from 1John and from 3John, to signify the uniting of the "Body of Benjamin", when the Heavenly Salvation program is completed, when the "3 Days of Darkness" begins, and the Tribe of Benjamin is separated from the Tribe of Joseph. (So this does indicate the Tribe of Joseph holding the "Head of the Priesthood Title", for the "3 Days of Darkness" .......... before Star Wormwood takes the Tribes, and invalidates this previous argument in the gospel ............. Judah doesn't receive the title of Head of the Priesthood)



All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so Paul's words in this epistle applies to them. And here is what he told every Israelite believer in every place:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).


The Tribe of Judah would be baptized by having the Jewish People gathered there. This fulfills the Jewish people's population as a marker for the "Heart of Judah" or Zion, to satisfy the Separatist Inheritance* of Judah. (The Jewish People were untied with the Body of Christ in the Old Testament since David, and this lasted until Peter was Baptized .............. in the New Testament, the Jewish people are united with the body of Judah ............. a few statement made about this in this discussion, Article Link (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111706&page=4)).

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 09:46 AM
Nona,
sorry, but your post is not how the NT sounds

Jerry Shugart
July 25th, 2015, 09:50 AM
When the Tribe of Ephraim had the "Head of the Priesthood" title, the Hebrews were of one body with Christ, since Christ has a covenant with them for them to record the gospel, and they were still recording the gospel then.

The Body of Christ did not even exist back then.

RevTestament
July 25th, 2015, 10:16 AM
There are some people on this forum who deny that the doctrine found in the Hebrew Epistles are for those in the Body of Christ.

But were not all the believers who received those epistles in the Body? Let us determine to whom 1 Corinthians was addressed. Paul wrote:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so Paul's words in this epistle applies to them. And here is what he told every Israelite believer in every place:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

There can be no doubt whatsoever that all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place must include all of the believers among the Israelites so they were told that they were baptized into the Body of Christ.

Perhaps there is at least one person among those who deny that the Hebrew epistles contain doctrine for the Body of Christ will address these two verses from 1 Corinthians?
I'm not sure what you are trying to say, or who you allege discounts Hebrews. This I know - Hebrews is quite important and is inspired. It teaches some of the most important principles of the oracles of God. People who understand it may truly be blessed. It contains "secrets" the general church ie Gentiles, have lost.

Jerry Shugart
July 25th, 2015, 10:34 AM
I'm not sure what you are trying to say, or who you allege discounts Hebrews. This I know - Hebrews is quite important and is inspired. It teaches some of the most important principles of the oracles of God. People who understand it may truly be blessed. It contains "secrets" the general church ie Gentiles, have lost.

Just like I said, there are some on this forum who say that the doctrine contained in the Hebrew epistles (or the General Epistles) are not for those in the Body of Christ.

They say that the doctrine found in these epistles are for "kingdom saints," the Israelites who will be living at the time when the earthly kingdom will be ushered in.

Notice that none of those who teach that have attempted to defend their ideas on this thread. Their silence speaks volumes.

Danoh
July 25th, 2015, 10:54 AM
Jerry not only well knows that he has posted this - "Mid-Acts issue" - on the wrong forum for its exploration, together with the four or five other issues he has been vomiting up for several decades now, but also; that he has no real interest in actually exploring them afresh.

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 10:58 AM
Just like I said, there are some on this forum who say that the doctrine contained in the Hebrew epistles (or the General Epistles) are not for those in the Body of Christ.

They say that the doctrine found in these epistles are for "kingdom saints," the Israelites who will be living at the time when the earthly kingdom will be ushered in.

Notice that none of those who teach that have attempted to defend their ideas on this thread. Their silence speaks volumes.



That's 2P2P. It is not in the NT. It is a cancer attacking it from outside.

CherubRam
July 25th, 2015, 11:11 AM
God is not a multiple, He is a single living being, and Holy Spirit is one of His many name titles.

John 17:11
I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be ONE as we are one.

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 11:18 AM
Thanks CherubRam, that's the whole point.

RevTestament
July 25th, 2015, 11:18 AM
Just like I said, there are some on this forum who say that the doctrine contained in the Hebrew epistles (or the General Epistles) are not for those in the Body of Christ.

They say that the doctrine found in these epistles are for "kingdom saints," the Israelites who will be living at the time when the earthly kingdom will be ushered in.

Notice that none of those who teach that have attempted to defend their ideas on this thread. Their silence speaks volumes.

Then let me be a "kingdom saint" by all means!!! And let me be found doing the work of Christ when He comes and His kingdom is built!


Matthew 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

Jerry Shugart
July 25th, 2015, 11:34 AM
Jerry not only well knows that he has posted this - "Mid-Acts issue" - on the wrong forum for its exploration, together with the four or five other issues he has been vomiting up for several decades now, but also; that he has no real interest in actually exploring them afresh.

I am trying my best to give you and your fellow Neo-MADists a chance to address the verses which I quoted from 1 Corinthians.

Of course one of the giants of MAD, J.C. O'Hair, had the following to say about your teaching as well as the teaching within the Neo-MAD camp:


"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).

Why would you object to me starting a thread on this subject here? Are you ashamed of your beliefs? Why have you not even attempted to answer what I said about the two verses which I quoted from 1 Corinthians?

Jerry Shugart
July 25th, 2015, 11:39 AM
Then let me be a "kingdom saint" by all means!!! And let me be found doing the work of Christ when He comes and His kingdom is built!

They teach that you can be only one or the other.

But they fail to understand that when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth that those in the Body will be with Him:


"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).

According to their ideas those in the Body of Christ will remain in heaven when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth!

Danoh
July 25th, 2015, 12:17 PM
I am trying my best to give you and your fellow Neo-MADists a chance to address the verses which I quoted from 1 Corinthians.

Of course one of the giants of MAD, J.C. O'Hair, had the following to say about your teaching as well as the teaching within the Neo-MAD camp:


"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphasis mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).

Why would you object to me starting a thread on this subject here? Are you ashamed of your beliefs? Why have you not even attempted to answer what I said about the two verses which I quoted from 1 Corinthians?

Why?

What decades have proven as to your actual agenda...

Matthew 11's:

16. But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
17. And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
18. For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
19. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

john w
July 25th, 2015, 01:45 PM
There can be no doubt whatsoever that all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place must include all of the believers among the Israelites so they were told that they were baptized into the Body of Christ....Notice that none of those who teach that have attempted to defend their ideas on this thread. Their silence speaks volumes.

Never trust a drone, such as Jerry S., who is always right, that finds it necessary to include in their argument:

"There can be no doubt whatsoever....none...have attempted to defend ....silence speaks volume..."

Translated: Their is doubt, and he is just blowing hot air, with these kindergarten cliches.

Kindly provide us chapter, verse, that requires us to answer all questions posed, especially those, that have an unteacheable "spirit," such as yourself.

Jerry Shugart
July 25th, 2015, 02:02 PM
Why?

What decades have proven as to your actual agenda...

Unlike you, I place my faith in what the Scriptures actually say.

That is why you run and hide from the verses which I quoted from 1 Corinthians.

Jerry Shugart
July 25th, 2015, 02:05 PM
Kindly provide us chapter, verse, that requires us to answer all questions posed, especially those, that have an unteacheable "spirit," such as yourself.

No one forced you to come on this thread.

All you show is that you have no answer to the verses from 1 Corinthians which I quoted.

nonanomanon
July 26th, 2015, 12:32 PM
The Body of Christ did not even exist back then.


"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28).



But they fail to understand that when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth that those in the Body will be with Him:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).


We can shift the context from a lesser accounting of the Tribal Transitions, to the "Uniting of the Tribes to the Tribes of Isreal/Children of Isreal". When the Tribes are Accounted in the Gospel, the phrase, "Remnant of Isreal/Children of Isreal", is usually tagged on ..... in the Book of Revelations, it is revealed that Star Wormwood is the "Remnant of Isreal". ............................. When the "Body of Christ is United", the "Tribes and the Remnant of Isreal are United", although they are often accounted together, the Gospel only makes this statement in three specific instances:


1. When the "Tribe of Ephraim/Hebrews Genetic Line" had the title "Head of the Priesthood" ........ and the name of the Lord was removed from the Books of Esther, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon. (That is because the Hebrews specifically are married to Christ in order to write the Gospel's Law, even though they are not doing that now, the gospel has no language to remove the scribal position from Ephraim (Jesus was given the Crown "King of the Jews" ..... having the title of Head of the Priesthood was a picture of unifying the Body of Christ).
2. When the "12 Apostles a picture of the 12 Tribes, were reconciled to Christ through the Last Supper" .......... and the name of the Lord was removed from the Book of 1John and 3John in the New Testament .......... The Body of Christ was Unified in order to remove the revelation of the Gospel from the Church ............ God would no longer use congregations to produce spiritual truth, God would largely use individuals. The Apostle John which wrote the Book of Revelation in isolation officially began this pattern, with the conclusion of the written gospel. (the Hebrews were the only ones qualified to scribe the New Testament, regardless of some of the apostles and Paul, fulfilling this position temporarily).
3. When God unites the "Tribes to the Remnant of Isreal (Star Wormwood)", so that Star Wormwood can represent the "Unifying of the Body of Christ on Earth". This happens when the "Three and a Half Days", described in the book of Revelation begins.

The Gospel does not remove the name of the lord in Revelation, like it had done in the Old Testament and in the New Testament, instead. What the gospel does is reveal that fact that "Star Wormwood, is the Revelation that is Revealed about the Body of Christ, which can only happen when the Body of Christ is unified" (that is like removing the name of the Lord in the Revelation).

The "Body of Christ" always existed. The existence of the Tribes have existed from the very beginning of Creation, through the parables of the Heavenly Generations of Adam and his sons, concluding with Abraham the modern day Homosapien. The Gospel has accounted the "Body of Christ" from time to time, but the Gospel only in three instances, can we say with infallibility. That the "Body of Christ was Unified", in order to further usher in the fulness of the gospel's program.

(All Human Life is Terminated outside the "Heart of Judah", as well as all human life attributed to any specific Tribe that references Genetic Lines, as they are divided into the language of Separatist Inheritors* ............ We are not seeing a declaration that the Hebrews should be living in the Epistles of the Hebrews ............. We are instead seeing the fact that the Hebrews will become one with Star Wormwood, after the order of Melchisedec their Separatist Inheritance* ................... only the "Heart of Judah" will remain living on the Planet Earth when the "3 Days of Darkness" begins, stated in Rev. 5:5 ........... the Antichrist is leading only a very small portion of people into the New Universe .............. the level of force has not made a humane solution necessary in society as of yet, but we do have less then 33 days remaining now to the elimination of more then 95% of earth's population, we simply need to keep watch as to the next level of cleansing certain people and groups in society that choose to end their lives relatively immediately. If that is infact true their attention needs to be directed towards an individual.)

nonanomanon
July 26th, 2015, 01:04 PM
Kindly provide us chapter, verse, that requires us to answer all questions posed, especially those, that have an unteacheable "spirit," such as yourself.

(The Differential between the 3 Days of Matt. 12:40 and the, 3 and a Half Days of Rev. 11:9 ............. in which "every eye will see the Body of Benjamin" for 12 Hours according to Rev. 1:7 ............... is not a description as the Antichrist being a picture of the "Tribes plus Remnant of Isreal" unity of the Body of Christ. This is a description of the "Tribe of Benjamin" that is revealed as the "Temple Stones" or UFOs. ................. The Gospel does not remove Benjamin until the 3 Days of Darkness, because all the Separatist Inheritors* judgments are not completed until that time .................. we will reach the "Marriage by Fire" level, in less then 33 days .................... whatever else we've said is true, a portion of the people are deceased continually because they are incapable of killing the Antichrist, that is the extent of mankind's sin against the Antichrist at this level. I decided to enclose this response in parenthesis, for public safety because, I'm sure the Antichrist is not finished euthanizing the problem ........... plus he probably has some things planned in putting this problem down a tiny bit more before all things are revealed, and every eye shall see, even that great eye satellite above the earth, shall also begin to see, soon)

Nick M
July 26th, 2015, 01:20 PM
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).


As a side note, I changed the bold to the more important part that people insist doesn't exist. :kookoo:

Nick M
July 26th, 2015, 01:22 PM
And the letter to the Hebrews is exactly where it belongs. In the Holy Bible, useful for instruction and correction, but after Paul's gospel.

Jerry Shugart
July 27th, 2015, 07:37 AM
As a side note, I changed the bold to the more important part that people insist doesn't exist.

Here is what Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote about that:


"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

What didn't you deal with the other part of what is found in 1 Corinthians 1:2?

Danoh
July 27th, 2015, 08:36 AM
Here is what Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote about that:


"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

What didn't you deal with the other part of what is found in 1 Corinthians 1:2?

Not that those three men [O'Hair; Baker; Stam] were ever off; right?

Since when is any Mid-Acts conclusion based on passages that may or may not be referring to a same issue?

Said practice has always been the hole in any argument against Mid-Acts - even within Mid-Acts writers and teachers, when they are off.

Awareness of this not only being its very safeguard, but the means by which Mid-Acts has been able to continue to refine its understandings soundly.

Where Baker, O'Hair, and Stam followed that, there was further, sound refinement.

Where they failed to - and for all those host of both legitimate and illegitimate reasons such things are subject to - they too remained held back from what the eyes of the understanding of some today have been made privy to - thanks to the giant achievements of those three men in those, so many areas where they so brightly shined in like few in recorded church history to this very day.

More O'Hair, and then Stam, even less Baker. Though Stam had been very, very strong in his reliance on Scripture, O'Hair had been even more Scripture oriented than Stam. And Baker had been too heavily "Academia" in his approach.

Thus, the error that is Jerry's cherry picking through theirs and other's writings.

What we learn from O'Hair, Stam, and Baker - if we are astute - is that these issues have always been solved for via distinctions between the two agencies respective characteristics - not - through a few passages someone might assert a thing through, and therefore, case supposedly closed.

How does one prove the issue of the place of Water Baptism, for example?

Through way more than a few passages - through a whole slew of distinctions between things.

Every hole in your every argument, Jerry; regardless of what might be the argument you would make yourself a nuisance by once more - every hole in your every argument, fails that principle miserably - consistently so.

Fact is, yours - and any Mid-Actsers - failure in these kinds of inconsistencies is the plain old Acts 2 Dispensationalist's inconsistency; his failure to distinguish between things as to their many, distinct characteristics.

Fact is, you are an incompetent in these kinds of things - in that, for you; if its not your assertion; if it is not in an external book somewhere, if it is not in some supposed best translation somewhere; if it is not in some Greek multiple choice of definitions, pick the one that best makes your case; then it is by default; neither sound, nor the assertion of Scripture.

Danoh
July 27th, 2015, 08:43 AM
"We gratefully acknowledge the help of others in the preparation of this volume. Of these, three have submitted doctrinal criticisms: Pastor Charles F. Baker of Milwaukee and Pastor Donald Elifson of Chicago; both well qualified to deal with dispensational matters, and Pastor J. C. O'Hair of Chicago, who has probably contributed more to the recovery of dispensational truth than any man
living today. We do not, of course, imply that these brethren, necessarily endorse every detail of this volume as it now appears, but their criticisms have been prayerfully considered and many of their suggestions have been adopted.

Though we have sought to make this book as comprehensive as possible, it is not presumed to be exhaustive for, as we say, the field of dispensational study is as great as the Bible itself. Should there still be some time remaining before the Lord returns to catch His own away, the Spirit will enlighten the hearts and minds of others to see what we have missed and other writers will doubtless
improve upon what has here been written."

C.R. Stam, Preface, page 10, Things That Differ, 1951, 1959, 1982, 1985.

Interplanner
July 27th, 2015, 09:27 AM
Stam stammerred:
for, as we say, the field of dispensational study is as great as the Bible itself.

Nonsense.

Jerry Shugart
July 27th, 2015, 10:02 AM
Not that those three men [O'Hair; Baker; Stam] were ever off; right?

At least they had the courage to defend their views.

All you do is to run and hide from the verses from 1 Corinthians which I quoted which prove that your ideas are in error. In fact, not even one person from the Neo-MAD camp has even attempted to answer what I said about those verses.

You and your group have a yellow stripe running down the middle of your back.

john w
July 27th, 2015, 10:09 AM
No one forced you to come on this thread.

All you show is that you have no answer to the verses from 1 Corinthians which I quoted.

What a mess...The drone asserts, previously:


"Notice that none of those who teach that have attempted to defend their ideas on this thread. Their silence speaks volumes.."-Jerry S

So, I challenge his argument, where he asserts that we must answer him, asking him to provide chapter, and verse, that requires that we answer drones, such as himself, and what do we get. from our hero, who is always right? More spin, punt, grunts, asserts, ...

"All you show is that you have no answer to the verses from 1 Corinthians which I quoted."-JS

I'll give you another shot, drone. Chapter, verse, that requires an "answer."


I thought so. he can't produce it. And the drone is going to "argue," from the bible?


Sit, unteacheable one.

john w
July 27th, 2015, 10:12 AM
(The Differential between the 3 Days of Matt. 12:40 and the, 3 and a Half Days of Rev. 11:9 ............. in which "every eye will see the Body of Benjamin" for 12 Hours according to Rev. 1:7 ............... is not a description as the Antichrist being a picture of the "Tribes plus Remnant of Isreal" unity of the Body of Christ. This is a description of the "Tribe of Benjamin" that is revealed as the "Temple Stones" or UFOs. ................. The Gospel does not remove Benjamin until the 3 Days of Darkness, because all the Separatist Inheritors* judgments are not completed until that time .................. we will reach the "Marriage by Fire" level, in less then 33 days .................... whatever else we've said is true, a portion of the people are deceased continually because they are incapable of killing the Antichrist, that is the extent of mankind's sin against the Antichrist at this level. I decided to enclose this response in parenthesis, for public safety because, I'm sure the Antichrist is not finished euthanizing the problem ........... plus he probably has some things planned in putting this problem down a tiny bit more before all things are revealed, and every eye shall see, even that great eye satellite above the earth, shall also begin to see, soon)

The above, in response to my challenge below, to Jerry S's "argument:"


"Kindly provide us chapter, verse, that requires us to answer all questions posed, especially those, that have an unteacheable "spirit," such as yourself."-saint John W

Got it. Thanks for checkin' in.

Danoh
July 27th, 2015, 10:17 AM
At least they had the courage to defend their views.

All you do is to run and hide from the verses from 1 Corinthians which I quoted which prove that your ideas are in error. In fact, not even one person from the Neo-MAD camp has even attempted to answer what I said about those verses.

You and your group have a yellow stripe running down the middle of your back.

Yep, that must be it; a yellow stripe - with matching Tigers.

Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact proven over several decades now that no matter who you deal with on these issues you are not only set in your two verse distortions, but that your actual agenda is your glorying in it over others.

You recently tried this exact same nonsense on Interplanner. I warned him you would; called your exact ploy, including the fact that even when called on it you would still attempt it anyway.

True to your neurotic form; you could not help but be, true to your neurotic form once more.

In the end, he too had to ask you if you have nothing better to do.

Another notch on this delusional belt of yours; I'm sure.

nonanomanon
July 27th, 2015, 10:28 AM
Here is what Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote about that:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

http://rlv.zcache.com/star_of_david_usa_flag_shopping_tote_bag-r0c97af55bec04c31a418ab525a633131_v9w6h_8byvr_324. jpg

1. Isiah 4:3-4 says all human life is destroyed except for the "Heart of Judah", which is Zion.
2. Lamentations 2:17-18 + 1Kings 11:13 says the Tribe of Ephraim (Hebrews) will mark the "Heart of Judah", because the Hebrews are driven out from all the nations, and gathered as the "Apple of the Eye for Judah", like Ephraim was gathered as the "Chosen Tribe of David to Jerusalem" .... thus marking the "Heart of Judah".
3. Revelations 5:5 says "Judah is the only one Living", during the 153 Days.

Judah is clearly excluded from the "Body of Christ", that is presented through the "Body of Benjamin"(Temple Stones/UFOs) and through Star Wormwood (New Sun that encapsulates the Earth), that is why they remain as those left behind for 153 days. ............................... When does the Gospel declare this in 1 Corinthians?

I CORINTHIANS 1:1 Paul, called [to be] an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes [our] brother,
I CORINTHIANS 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1. Jesus that is "theirs", because they are of the Lord = "Body of Benjamin"
2. Jesus that is "ours", because they are of the "Remnant of Isreal" = "Star Wormwood"
3. "Sosthenes our Brother" = "Heart of Judah" excluded from the "Body of Christ", so it can be judged for 153 Days.

Judah Excluded from the "Body of Christ" for 153 Days at the End of Time
ZEPHANIAH 3:14 Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.
ZEPHANIAH 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, [even] the LORD, [is] in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.
ZEPHANIAH 3:16 In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: [and to] Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.

153 Days, the "Body of Christ" is revealed, first as the "Body of Benjamin" for approximately 12 Hours .... which marks the "Marriage by Fire" ........... then ............. "Star Wormwood" is revealed for 153 days and Judah, MUST NOT BE SLACK (zeph 3:16) ................ God uses Judah as the brother of his heavenly salvation program, "Sosthenes our Brother", the name of Judah's Separatist Inheritance* called "Zion", actually means "another kingdom". Beyond this, "Judah" is ascribed to the largest geographic area of all the peoples in all the nations that apply, the gospel for this reason excludes the Separatist Inheritance* of Judah to one country, because the world falls into considerable "Spiritual Wickedness" at the end of time. The Gospel simply does not allocate or give rewards for the considerable "Spiritual Wickedness" that has befallen the world at the end of time. The language of the gospel divides the "Spiritual Wickedness" accordingly.

Jerry Shugart
July 27th, 2015, 10:54 AM
True to your neurotic form; you could not help but be, true to your neurotic form once more.

All you do is to try to assassinate my character in the hope that no one will notice that once again you refused to even attempt to address the points which I made in regard to the two verses which I quoted from 1 Corinthians.

Frankly, you acts is getting old and all you are doing is proving my contention that you just run and hide from verses which contradict your silly ideas!

Jerry Shugart
July 27th, 2015, 11:01 AM
Sit, unteacheable one.

How would you possibly expect anyone to be taught by those in the Neo-MAD camp about the meanings I put on the two verses which I quoted from 1 Corinthians since all you people do is to run and hide from those verses?

Since you obviously have great confidence that I am in error about the meaning of those two verses then you must have a reason for believing that.

Now is a great opportunity to teach me what you think is the truth. Why would you pass up such a great opportunity to share your wisdom?

SaulToPaul
July 27th, 2015, 12:39 PM
Genesis-Malachi: earthly inheritance
Matthew-John: kingdom of heaven introduced, city inheritance
Acts: transition to the dispensation of the grace of God
Romans-Philemon: 13 letters for the dispensation of the gospel, heavenly inheritance
Hebrews-Revelation: 9 letters, trib context, looking forward to kingdom and beyond

Our Bibles are already rightly divided, if we will just accept it.

We are not told to rightly divide our Bibles, but to rightly divide the word of truth which is the gospel of our salvation. It is not found in the Hebrew epistles.

The above fits the millions of timelines and MAD charts we have all seen.

Danoh
July 27th, 2015, 12:57 PM
Genesis-Malachi: earthly inheritance
Matthew-John: kingdom of heaven introduced, city inheritance
Acts: transition to the dispensation of the grace of God
Romans-Philemon: 13 letters for the dispensation of the gospel, heavenly inheritance
Hebrews-Revelation: 9 letters, trib context, looking forward to kingdom and beyond

Our Bibles are already rightly divided, if we will just accept it.

We are not told to rightly divide our Bibles, but to rightly divide the word of truth which is the gospel of our salvation. It is not found in the Hebrew epistles.

The above fits the millions of timelines and MAD charts we have all seen.

STP, what do you mean by rightly divide the gospel of our salvation and not our Bibles?

SaulToPaul
July 27th, 2015, 01:03 PM
STP, what do you mean by rightly divide the gospel of our salvation and not our Bibles?

First, to cut it out from among the other gospels found in the Bible, such as the one in the four gospels and Hebrews-Revelation.

Secondly, even though our gospel is found in all 13 letters of Paul, we should consider which ones were written before the mystery of the gospel was revealed.

Jerry Shugart
July 27th, 2015, 01:22 PM
Hebrews-Revelation: 9 letters, trib context, looking forward to kingdom and beyond.

But were not all the believers who received those epistles in the Body? Let us determine to whom 1 Corinthians was addressed. Paul wrote:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so Paul's words in this epistle applies to them. And here is what he told every Israelite believer in every place:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

There can be no doubt whatsoever that all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place must include all of the believers among the Israelites so they were told that they were baptized into the Body of Christ.

Perhaps you, STP, will address what I said about these two verses from 1 Corinthians?


We are not told to rightly divide our Bibles, but to rightly divide the word of truth which is the gospel of our salvation. It is not found in the Hebrew epistles.

Are not Peter's words here speaking of the gospel according to the revelation of the mystery?:


"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot" (1 Pet.1:18-19).

And what about what is written here:


"Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed" (1 Pet.2:24).

And here?:


"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit" (1 Pet.3:18).


Matthew-John: kingdom of heaven introduced, city inheritance.

Is this not the gospel of our salvation?:


"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).

SaulToPaul
July 27th, 2015, 01:24 PM
But were not all the believers who received those epistles in the Body? Let us determine to whom 1 Corinthians was addressed. Paul wrote:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so Paul's words in this epistle applies to them. And here is what he told every Israelite believer in every place:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

There can be no doubt whatsoever that all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place must include all of the believers among the Israelites so they were told that they were baptized into the Body of Christ.

Perhaps you, STP, will address what I said about these two verses from 1 Corinthians?

I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

Jerry Shugart
July 27th, 2015, 01:43 PM
I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

So you think that the words "church of God" in this verse refers to the "kingdom church"?:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

If you are right then we must believe that not only were those in the church at Corinth were "kingdom saints" but also all those in every place which call on the name of the Lord Jesus.

However, this is what these so-called members of the kingdom church were told:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Do you think that this verse is speaking of those who are baptized into the Body of Christ?

nonanomanon
July 27th, 2015, 02:36 PM
Genesis-Malachi: earthly inheritance
Matthew-John: kingdom of heaven introduced, city inheritance
Acts: transition to the dispensation of the grace of God
Romans-Philemon: 13 letters for the dispensation of the gospel, heavenly inheritance
Hebrews-Revelation: 9 letters, trib context, looking forward to kingdom and beyond

Our Bibles are already rightly divided, if we will just accept it.

We are not told to rightly divide our Bibles, but to rightly divide the word of truth which is the gospel of our salvation. It is not found in the Hebrew epistles.

The above fits the millions of timelines and MAD charts we have all seen.

Genesis to Deuteronomy (5) = Creation Books (God Handed them to Moses, they were not written by the Hebrews, therefore they are an account of Creation)
Joshua to Zechariah (33) = Old Testament Books revealing the Coming of the Messiah
Malachi to Philemon (19) = New Testament Books revealing the Messiah as the fulfillment of the Old Testament
Hebrews to Revelation (9) = Revelation Books revealing "New Jerusalem/Star Wormwood", as the fulfillment of the New Testament

1. Luke 3:23 says "Jesus and Joseph about 30 Years", Isiah 34:8 says that the days of Jesus and the Antichrist are equal ............. Rev. 7:8 says Joseph is 12,000 (days). 12,000 is about 32.8 or 33 years. This is the duration of the Old Testament. 33 Books to the Old Testament.
2. Luke 17:17-18 says the Revelation is 9 Books, and the New Testament is 19 Books (total of 9+10), they are the Revealing of the Glory of the Lord, which is the Messiah.

The 112 Pope Prophecy of Saint Malachy, begins in the Book of Malachi and it ends in the book of Hebrews, which is when, Christ is revealed as the Lamb Slain to the Nations, which is Melchisedec. A portion of Aaron will be sacrificed when the 12 Hour Period (difference between Matt 12:40 and Rev. 11:9), the Italian Genetic Line (as Italy is described as Aaron in Acts), and the Catholic Clergy (as the Catholic Clergy is described in Acts 13 as Aaron) ............... then the portion of Aaron next to the Heart of Judah qualifies for the "Marriage by Fire", during this 12 Hour period. We should have less then 30 full days now, until this is satisfied.

The Antichrist only, would know or remember, God handing a series of books to the Hebrews, since both Moses and the Hebrews were unlearned, but they had to begin to carry the Gospel among many.

heir
July 27th, 2015, 10:27 PM
Genesis-Malachi: earthly inheritance
Matthew-John: kingdom of heaven introduced, city inheritance
Acts: transition to the dispensation of the grace of God
Romans-Philemon: 13 letters for the dispensation of the gospel, heavenly inheritance
Hebrews-Revelation: 9 letters, trib context, looking forward to kingdom and beyond

Our Bibles are already rightly divided, if we will just accept it.

We are not told to rightly divide our Bibles, but to rightly divide the word of truth which is the gospel of our salvation. It is not found in the Hebrew epistles.

The above fits the millions of timelines and MAD charts we have all seen.Amen!

heir
July 28th, 2015, 12:36 AM
I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.Yup!

heir
July 28th, 2015, 12:45 AM
And the letter to the Hebrews is exactly where it belongs. In the Holy Bible, useful for instruction and correction, but after Paul's gospel.Yup! It's right where God wants it/right where it belongs!

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 07:59 AM
Yup!

So you think that the words "church of God" in this verse refers to the "kingdom church"?:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

If you are right then we must believe that not only were those in the church at Corinth were "kingdom saints" but also all those in every place which call on the name of the Lord Jesus.

However, this is what these so-called members of the kingdom church were told:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Do you think that this verse is speaking of those who are baptized into the Body of Christ?

heir
July 28th, 2015, 12:26 PM
So you think that the words "church of God" in this verse refers to the "kingdom church"?This is who I believe the "church of God" is and who it isn't! We'll start off by posing this question:

Question: Who did Saul of Tarsus persecute beyond measure?



1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

Galatians 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

Answer:

This one!

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The one that was "added" to in early Acts!

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Here are some more that were added to that already existing church:

Acts 4:4 Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand.

Also, take note from the above, "And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. "should be saved"?

These people are waiting for the times of refreshing that shall come from the presence of the Lord when their sins may be blotted out (Acts 3:19-21 KJV). That is God's covenant with them when He shall take away their sins (Romans 11:25-27 KJV). This is not so with the church the Body of Christ! Through our Lord Jesus Christ we have NOW received the atonement! (Romans 5:11 KJV)

And do you recall that in Matthew when the young man asked, "Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

What was Jesus Christ's answer unto him?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

And the young man's answer and another question:

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

"If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and..."

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

He was told to sell all that he had! This is exactly what we see the church at Jerusalem doing!

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Acts 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

They had all things common. They sold all that they had. When the Lord did not restore the kingdome to Israel as expected, these people must have been in great need! And just what do we find Paul instructing some to do after he departs? "Take heed unto yourselves AND TO ALL THE FLOCK...(notice the "yourselves AND TO ALL THE FLOCK"). The Body of Christ is not a "flock" (nor sheep, for that matter). The verses tell us who that flock is "over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, TO FEED THE CHURCH OF GOD,..."

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Notice again, Paul says that when he departs grievous wolves shall enter in among them NOT SPARING THE FLOCK. And then in verse 30, he again shows a distinction! ALSO OF YOUR OWN SELVES shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

"The church of God" IS NOT the Body of Christ! There are two groups in the one Body, but it is NOT the church of God and the Body of Christ that are the twain made one new man!


Go 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, Jerry

aikido7
July 28th, 2015, 12:50 PM
...Just a bit of context to get outraged about....

Historians believe the profoundly beautiful Book of Hebrew was written for Jewish Christians who lived in Jerusalem.

This means its authorship is found to be long after Jesus' death. Its purpose was to exhort Christians to persevere in the face of persecution.

The theme of the epistle is the doctrine of the person of Christ and his role as a mediator between humankind and God.

As I remember from my own studies, the epistle shows a very different theology than the theology of the gospel accounts, for it labels Jesus with terms like "pioneer" or "forerunner," "priest" and "high priest.".

Jesus as the exalted Son of God and the high priest shows an early and unique dual Christian theology.

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 01:24 PM
This is who I believe the "church of God" is and who it isn't!

You have already agreed with STP that 1 Corinthians was written to a kingdom church. That is why I said this to you:


So you think that the words "church of God" in this verse refers to the "kingdom church"?:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

If you are right then we must believe that not only were those in the church at Corinth "kingdom saints" but also all those in every place which call on the name of the Lord Jesus.

However, this is what these so-called members of the kingdom church were told:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Do you think that this verse is speaking of those who are baptized into the Body of Christ?

If your answer is "yes" then you must believe that members of the Body of Christ are members of the kingdom church. And if your answer is "no" then you must believe that there are two Bodies of Christ.

So what is your answer?

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 01:36 PM
...Just a bit of context to get outraged about....

Historians believe the profoundly beautiful Book of Hebrew was written for Jewish Christians who lived in Jerusalem.

Yes, and those who received Hebrews had access into the heavenly sphere, a blessing that just applies only to those in the Body of Christ:


"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh" (Heb.10:19-20).


"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb.4:16).

It is only those who are in the Body of Christ who dwell in the very presence of God because only those in the Body have been raised up and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).


"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col.3:1).

From this we can know that it is impossible that the book of Hebrews, which tells all "to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus," is for the future tribulation when only the high priest will have access to God. Instead, these words are speaking of the access into the heavenlies which members of the Body of Christ enjoy now. Cornelius Stam, the founder of The Berean Bible Society, wrote:


"The Holiest place of the tabernacle, still closed to Jewish believers at that time, except representatively through the High Priest once each year, reminds us of our free entrance into 'the holiest of all' in heaven itself. By grace we enter the presence of God, '. . . by the blood of Jesus . . . a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh' (Heb. 10:19,20). Think of it! The old dead way replaced by 'a new and living way,' specially consecrated to our use through the blood of Christ! This is the great Pauline doctrine of our access to God (Rom. 5:2)" [emphasis mine] (Stam, The Berean Searchlight, Volume L, Number 2).

Danoh
July 28th, 2015, 01:59 PM
...Just a bit of context to get outraged about....

Historians believe the profoundly beautiful Book of Hebrew was written for Jewish Christians who lived in Jerusalem.

This means its authorship is found to be long after Jesus' death. Its purpose was to exhort Christians to persevere in the face of persecution.

The theme of the epistle is the doctrine of the person of Christ and his role as a mediator between humankind and God.

As I remember from my own studies, the epistle shows a very different theology than the theology of the gospel accounts, for it labels Jesus with terms like "pioneer" or "forerunner," "priest" and "high priest.".

Jesus as the exalted Son of God and the high priest shows an early and unique dual Christian theology.

Compare John, chapters 1 and 8 to Hebrews 4 thru 7.

A sample of what you will find...

John 8:
56. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58. Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Hebrews 7:
1. For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2. To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3. Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Thus, the Lord's words in Luke 19:

41. And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42. Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.

This King and their Grace was their prophesied Grace - John 1:17's "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

In other words, He confirmed this Prophesied Grace - Romans 15:

8. Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

As a result, the Hebrew writer was able to relate to the Hebrews concerning this King of Salem's Prophesied Grace:

Hebrews 2:
17. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins
of the people.
18. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Hebrews 4:
14. Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

heir
July 28th, 2015, 02:26 PM
You have already agreed with STP that 1 Corinthians was written to a kingdom church.Yes, I agree with SaulToPaul on who the church of God is. We agree on much! I gave you a thorough answer on who I believe the church of God is and who it isn't. I've no need to answer you further.

Go study, Jerry.

Danoh
July 28th, 2015, 02:31 PM
Yes, I agree with SaulToPaul on who the church of God is. We agree on much! I gave you a thorough answer on who I believe the church of God is and who it isn't. I've no need to answer you further.

Go study, Jerry.

Lol, more like go study out how to study a thing out... soundly.

john w
July 28th, 2015, 03:13 PM
How would you possibly expect anyone to be taught by those in the Neo-MAD camp about the meanings I put on the two verses which I quoted from 1 Corinthians since all you people do is to run and hide from those verses?

Since you obviously have great confidence that I am in error about the meaning of those two verses then you must have a reason for believing that.

Now is a great opportunity to teach me what you think is the truth. Why would you pass up such a great opportunity to share your wisdom?

Chapter, verse, that requires an "answer."

I thought so. You can't produce it. And the drone is going to "argue," from the bible?


"to run and hide from those verses?"-Jerry's spam, which is on every third post

That's your best cliche?




Sit, unteacheable one.

Danoh
July 28th, 2015, 03:23 PM
Chapter, verse, that requires an "answer."

I thought so. You can't produce it. And the drone is going to "argue," from the bible?


"to run and hide from those verses?"-Jerry's spam, which is on every third post

That's your best cliche?




Sit, unteacheable one.

Leave it to someone who's supposed Mid-Acts is more Acts 2 than much Mid, to refer to those who are much more consistent in their Mid-Acts as, Neo-Mid-Acts.

Just goes to show what all that Greeking this, that, the other, add in a pinch of this or that supposed better translation, and a whole lotta books supposedly "about" ...results in...

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 03:43 PM
Yes, I agree with SaulToPaul on who the church of God is. We agree on much! I gave you a thorough answer on who I believe the church of God is and who it isn't. I've no need to answer you further.

Of course you will not answer. You want us to believe that 1 Corinthians was written to the so-called kingdom church where there are no members of the Body of Christ.

But you refuse to address this verse where Paul makes it plain that those to whom the epistle were addressed are said the have been baptized into the Body of Christ:


"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit"(1 Cor.12:13).

You are so confused that you are unable to answer the most simple questions. But I never expected that you would!

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 03:46 PM
Chapter, verse, that requires an "answer."

You miss the point. I never expect anyone from the Neo-MAD crowd to answer anything.

But it is a lot fun to ask them questions and see what excuses they come up with in order to avoid answering simple questions!

john w
July 28th, 2015, 03:59 PM
Of course you will not answer.
Weighty. Standard fare spam. Jerry's "Trifecta:"

1.Of course, you've not answered 67 of my last 87 questions. You cannot answer.

2. You "personally" attack me.

3. You run and hide.


Fun! You taught us all that, Jerry. Please...teach us more, unteacheable one.

john w
July 28th, 2015, 04:07 PM
You miss the point. I never expect anyone from the Neo-MAD crowd to answer anything.

But it is a lot fun to ask them questions and see what excuses they come up with in order to avoid answering simple questions!

No, I missed nothing. My point, and others, is that you are a condescending, ignorant blowhard, with an unteacheable "spirit," who is not here to learn, or teach others, but is here to "prove" that he is always right, and resorts to "arguments" of sophistry, deceit, when challenged, such as "Cannot answer...No one from the Neo MAD crowd answers me....They attack me...They run and hide.....," and yet, you demand an answer, and yet cannot produce one biblical reason, as to why we should, given the "intent" of your demands for an answer.


Chapter, verse, Jerry. You allegedly "woo" us with your biblical acumen-chapter,verse. Should be quite easy, since you are always right.

You:

aikido7
July 28th, 2015, 04:17 PM
Yes, and those who received Hebrews had access into the heavenly sphere, a blessing that just applies only to those in the Body of Christ...It's perfectly okay to describe the activity of the inspired authors and followers of oral tradition and textual preservation in theological phrases such as "excess to the heavenly sphere..."

But because that phrase is not in the Bible, you must be honest and admit that you are clearly adding to "the Word."

I don't understand how the rest of the theology you offer is pertinent to an evaluation and history of the Book of Hebrews.

john w
July 28th, 2015, 04:33 PM
It's perfectly okay to describe the activity of the inspired authors ...

No scripture testifies that the "authors" were "inspired."

And the LORD God is the author.

All scripture is(not was) given by inspiration...

aikido7
July 28th, 2015, 04:43 PM
No scripture testifies that the "authors" were "inspired."

And the LORD God is the author.

All scripture is(not was) given by inspiration...I disagree. I am inspired by the gospels and I believe that the original authors were just as inspired.

You and I might have a difference of opinion as to what "inspired" actually means. I believe the gospel authors were people, not parrots. They were inspired (my opinion) to set down the life of Jesus as they knew it on paper.

I do not see them as some sort of "psychic channelers" who were walking Ouija Boards.

To me the idea that God actually wrote the Bible is true only in a metaphoric sense. The mere fact of the wide divergence in translations and between and among the gospels themselves tells me that there was no ONE author, but perhaps ONE inspirer.

Just as we do, they were mediating the Spirit of God and trying to communicate that to others.

john w
July 28th, 2015, 05:43 PM
I disagree. I am inspired by the gospels and I believe that the original authors were just as inspired.

You and I might have a difference of opinion as to what "inspired" actually means. I believe the gospel authors were people, not parrots. They were inspired (my opinion) to set down the life of Jesus as they knew it on paper.

I do not see them as some sort of "psychic channelers" who were walking Ouija Boards.

To me the idea that God actually wrote the Bible is true only in a metaphoric sense. The mere fact of the wide divergence in translations and between and among the gospels themselves tells me that there was no ONE author, but perhaps ONE inspirer.

Just as we do, they were mediating the Spirit of God and trying to communicate that to others.

Made up. The biblical definition of "inspired," not the secular definition(i.e., your " I am inspired by the gospels," "He was so inspiring...!"...............), means "to breath life into." Survey Jobe-the law of "first reference:"



Job 32:8 KJV But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.


No scriptures says that Moses, Paul....................(people)were "inspired," and you cannot produce one verse that says that they are.

All scripture is given by inspiration.

aikido7
July 28th, 2015, 05:53 PM
Made up. The biblical definition of "inspired," not the secular definition(i.e., your " I am inspired by the gospels," "He was so inspiring...!"...............), means "to breath life into." Survey Jobe-the law of "first reference:"



Job 32:8 KJV But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.


No scriptures says that Moses, Paul....................(people)were "inspired," and you cannot produce one verse that says that they are.

All scripture is given by inspiration.I would only respond that the use of secular definitions is part of the scientific methodology of historical research.

History looks upon theological/spiritual/supernatural explanations as statements of faith, not of factually correct history.

Of course, it is "factually correct" that, say, Anselm of Canterbury first developed the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality. In other words, the theology was placed over the historical event of the crucifixion long after Jesus died.

aikido7
July 28th, 2015, 05:56 PM
...Job 32:8 KJV But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.


No scriptures says that Moses, Paul....................(people)were "inspired," and you cannot produce one verse that says that they are.
All scripture is given by inspiration.[/QUOTE]I am confused. You say there are "no scriptures" that are inspired, yet you quote a verse from Job that says something different.

john w
July 28th, 2015, 06:14 PM
I would only respond that the use of secular definitions is part of the scientific methodology of historical research.

History looks upon theological/spiritual/supernatural explanations as statements of faith, not of factually correct history.

Of course, it is "factually correct" that, say, Anselm of Canterbury first developed the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality. In other words, the theology was placed over the historical event of the crucifixion long after Jesus died.

My final authority: The scriptures, which are "true from the beginning"


Vs.

Your final authority:In my opinion..........



Contrasts.


You've been dismissed.....Judges 21:25 KJV



"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you


Vs.

"Religious Affiliation
Christian"-your page




Translated: another wolf, child of the devil, raud, has been marked/exposed/identified


Wolfie.

john w
July 28th, 2015, 06:15 PM
All scripture is given by inspiration.I am confused. You say there are "no scriptures" that are inspired, yet you quote a verse from Job that says something different.[/QUOTE]


__________________________________________________ ___
Knock it off-I never said " there are "no scriptures" that are inspired


Learn how to quote properly. I did.

aikido7
July 28th, 2015, 06:27 PM
My final authority: The scriptures, which are "true from the beginning"


Vs.

Your final authority:In my opinion..........



Contrasts.


You've been dismissed.....Judges 21:25 KJV



"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you


Vs.

"Religious Affiliation
Christian"-your page




Translated: another wolf, child of the devil, raud, has been marked/exposed/identified


Wolfie.Jesus dying as a blood sacrifice for sin was a later overlay put onto his life after he died.

The entire theology of the "blood sacrifice" was worked out 900 years after he died by the theologian Anselm of Canterbury.

Jesus--as did John the Baptizer--believed in coming before a God of mercy with repentance and a contrite heart. Even in the Lord's Prayer Jesus specifically says we are forgiven as we forgive.

Of course, the gospel of John and Paul's theology are different. They both describe a theology of spilled blood on the altar.


In fact, to assert that Jesus was the Lamb of God that was slain for humankind's sins, the author of John had to move the day of his death a day earlier to the Day of Preparation. The other gospels report Jesus died on Passover proper.

I see lots of contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible, but because they are there I am bound to study them honestly and take them seriously.

Because of my faith in God, I just do not feel threatened by the diversity.

We Christians have a rich and diverse history of different traditions and theologies in the text. My own faith has been sanctified and deepened by learning what the original verses meant to those who first wrote them down.

john w
July 28th, 2015, 06:29 PM
Jesus dying as a blood sacrifice for sin was a later overlay put onto his life after he died.

The entire theology of the "blood sacrifice" was worked out 900 years after he died by the theologian Anselm of Canterbury.

Jesus--as did John the Baptizer--believed in coming before a God of mercy with repentance and a contrite heart. Even in the Lord's Prayer Jesus specifically says we are forgiven as we forgive.

Of course, the gospel of John and Paul's theology are different. They both describe a theology of spilled blood on the altar.


In fact, to assert that Jesus was the Lamb of God that was slain for humankind's sins, the author of John had to move the day of his death a day earlier to the Day of Preparation. The other gospels report Jesus died on Passover proper.

I see lots of contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible, but because they are there I am bound to study them honestly and take them seriously.

Because of my faith in God, I just do not feel threatened by the diversity.

We Christians have a rich and diverse history of different traditions and theologies in the text. My own faith has been sanctified and deepened by learning what the original verses meant to those who first wrote them down.

"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you

The above is all we need to know about you, wolfie. Fraud, posing as a member of the boc.

You've been marked/exposed/idenified.

aikido7
July 28th, 2015, 06:31 PM
My final authority: The scriptures, which are "true from the beginning"


Vs.

Your final authority:In my opinion..........



Contrasts.


You've been dismissed.....Judges 21:25 KJV



"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you


Vs.

"Religious Affiliation
Christian"-your page




Translated: another wolf, child of the devil, raud, has been marked/exposed/identified


Wolfie.There is no reason to name-call on this board. If you cannot dialogue like an adult and respect others no matter what their beliefs, then you are always going to be at a serious disadvantage.

Going through life--especially a Christian life--continually judging and evaluating others and paying scant attention to the logs in your own eye first is merely taking you off the path of carrying your own cross in His footsteps.

Too many Christians and Muslims today are bigoted, hypocritical, authoritarian, patriarchal and other-worldly as it is.

It gives us a bad name in a time when we need the most converts.

aikido7
July 28th, 2015, 06:33 PM
"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you

The above is all we need to know about you, wolfie. Fraud, posing as a member of the boc.

You've been marked/exposed/idenified.

First of all, I am a Christian.

The norm of the Bible is simple: Jesus of Nazareth. All Christian faith flows through Jesus.

The only way one can answer you is for both of us to recognize what exactly is IN the Bible as far as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament.

I demand that you take Jesus seriously before dipping into any personal theology or later theological categorizations of Jesus.

And finally, the quotations from the gospels offered have to be acknowledged and at least read by you.

Bible Study is actually "Studying the Bible."

1Mind1Spirit
July 28th, 2015, 06:38 PM
I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

There is only one congregation.

1Mind1Spirit
July 28th, 2015, 06:42 PM
Yup!

Nope.

heir
July 28th, 2015, 06:44 PM
Lol, more like go study out how to study a thing out... soundly.I'm not going to hold my breath that he will, but I hope he does.

heir
July 28th, 2015, 06:45 PM
Of course you will not answer. You want us to believe that 1 Corinthians was written to the so-called kingdom church where there are no members of the Body of Christ.
I believe the scriptures show that there was a mixed bag (as some say) at Corinth and all not necessarily became members of the one Body of Christ. Some did and some didn't.

john w
July 28th, 2015, 06:50 PM
The only way one can answer you is for both of us to recognize what exactly is IN the Bible as far as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament.





You are not in my league. Watch, as I expose you for the biblical illiterate that you are, a fraud, poser, humnist, just spamming, "In my opinion....I think..."


Acts 20:35 KJV I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Show us the chapter, verse, where the Lord Jesus ever said:

It is more blessed to give than to receive



Per your "as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament" "argument."


Fraud. Poser. Oprah-"In my opinion...."

glorydaz
July 28th, 2015, 06:56 PM
I believe there was a mixed bag (as they say) at Corinth and all not necessarily became members of the one Body of Christ. Some did and some didn't.

Exactly. One of Jerry's problems is his idea that everyone in a particular assembly is cut from the same cloth. It's actually very naive of him and down right ignorant, IMO. It's why Paul says to examine yourself whether you be in the faith.


2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

john w
July 28th, 2015, 07:10 PM
I see lots of contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible, but because they are there I am bound to study them honestly and take them seriously.



There are no contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible; do not confuse your lack of understanding, due to 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV/1 Cor. 2:124 KJV, and your lack of reading comprehension skills, for any alleged contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible. Millions before you, have tried to "prove" these "contradictions and discrepancies," and the bible, the hamer,has grounded them down/pounded them. Get saved/grow a brain, or get grounded down-your choice.




Because of my faith in God, I just do not feel threatened by the diversity.

False dichotomy.

You'd have no objective revelation of "God," and thus no faith in God, w/o the book by which he is objectively revealed. You reject that book. What the bible says, God says. The bible knows no such distinction.


Muslims can say "Because of my faith in God.."

And?






We Christians...


Strike "We"-you're a wolf, poser, fraud.

1Mind1Spirit
July 28th, 2015, 07:39 PM
You are not in my league. Watch, as I expose you for the biblical illiterate that you are, a fraud, poser, humnist, just spamming, "In my opinion....I think..."


Acts 20:35 KJV I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Show us the chapter, verse, where the Lord Jesus ever said:

It is more blessed to give than to receive



Per your "as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament" "argument."


Fraud. Poser. Oprah-"In my opinion...."



Let's take a good hard look at this John.

For it is you who are imposing Dispensation opinion on scripture.


Who wrote Acts?

Can we agree it was Luke?

Now we see in Acts 20 that at the time Paul spoke that Luke was with him.

13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed , minding himself to go afoot .

14 And when he met with us at Assos, we took him in , and came to Mitylene.


With me so far?

Now who was Luke?

Can you say one of those who was with Jesus and the twelve from the beginning?

From Gospel of Luke:

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,


Now granted Luke did not write in his Gospel that Jesus said those exact words.

That does not mean that he did not hear Jesus say it.

Or that when he was preaching in person that he didn't relate that Jesus said it.

Chances are Paul heard it from Luke or another disciple that had been with Jesus.

Paul hung out with more than one who had been with Jesus, take Barnabas for instance.

This is another reason why Nick's idea that Paul didn't write Hebrews is just another Dispy opinion.


Hebrews 2
3 How shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


So for Paul to be quoting them fellas would mean he believed em, dontcha think?


Acts 20:35 KJV I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 07:44 PM
I believe the scriptures show that there was a mixed bag (as some say) at Corinth and all not necessarily became members of the one Body of Christ. Some did and some didn't.

Then why did Paul tell those whom he addressed the following?:


"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Jn.12:13).

If only some of those at the church at Corinth became members of the Body and some didn't then why would Paul say "for by one Spirit are we ALL baptized into one Body"?

tetelestai
July 28th, 2015, 08:07 PM
I believe the scriptures show that there was a mixed bag (as some say) at Corinth and all not necessarily became members of the one Body of Christ. Some did and some didn't.

Don't you ever get tired of making things up over and over again?

Do you even keep track of the things you make up?

Nick M
July 28th, 2015, 08:34 PM
Here is what Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote about that:



Here is what godrulz said.

You underestimate the caliber of scholars that God has raised up to keep the sheep from falling for false teaching and ignorance on important subjects. Why should I trust you as an expert on things, and reject those with proven track records and godly character/insights? Eph. 4:11-13 vs internet wannabees with no training or accountability…Any credible biblical theology of John and Paul or any credible commentary or NT scholar or average believer has no problem with I Jn. vs Paul

Nick M
July 28th, 2015, 08:37 PM
We are not told to rightly divide our Bibles, but to rightly divide the word of truth which is the gospel of our salvation. It is not found in the Hebrew epistles.

The above fits the millions of timelines and MAD charts we have all seen.

I am not incorrect to point out the emphasis on studying Scripture, etc. for truth. The Spirit of Truth does lead us into truth, but you have to explain why so many sincere, godly believers have such a myriad of divisive, doctrinal views despite the same indwelling Holy Spirit, same sincerity, same prayerful study of Word, etc. (hint: noetic effects of sin; bad teaching; subjective, fleshly impressions mistaken for the Spirit, etc.

You are undermining His finished work (Hebrews shows the superiority of New/reality in Christ over Old/shadows and types) by suggesting there is a temporary 'Jewish/circ' gospel before Paul. Keeping the Law after the Lamb of God sheds His blood is nonsense and futile, even for Jewish Christians. The dividing wall is down because of the cross and there is nothing needed for Jew/Gentile to be one in Christ based on the one true NT gospel.

:Plain:

heir
July 28th, 2015, 09:09 PM
Then why did Paul tell those whom he addressed the following?:


"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Jn.12:13).

If only some of those at the church at Corinth became members of the Body and some didn't then why would Paul say "for by one Spirit are we ALL baptized into one Body"?Just as Paul wrote that we are all baptized into one body in 1 Corinthians 12 does not mean that he did not address some that weren't as we can see there were some at Corinth who believed in vain (1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV) as they did not believe in the resurrection of the dead (1 Corinthians 15:12-17 KJV). So to say that all in Corinth were in the one Body is ignorant. We cannot apply 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV to them, now can we?

Go study, Jerry.

tetelestai
July 28th, 2015, 09:15 PM
Just as Paul wrote that we are all baptized into one body in 1 Corinthians 12 does not mean that he did not address some that weren't as we can see there were some at Corinth who believed in vain (1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV) as they did not believe in the resurrection of the dead (1 Corinthians 15:12-17 KJV). So to say that all in Corinth were in the one Body is ignorant. We cannot apply 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV to them, now can we?

Go study, Jerry.

More foolishness.

Your "kingdom" and "body" churches theory is once again proved wrong.

tetelestai
July 28th, 2015, 09:20 PM
So to say that all in Corinth were in the one Body is ignorant.

(1 Cor 1:13 KJV) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Please stop dividing Christ!

Was Paul crucified for you?

Were you baptized in the name of Paul?

aikido7
July 28th, 2015, 09:21 PM
Let's take a good hard look at this John.

For it is you who are imposing Dispensation opinion on scripture.


Who wrote Acts?

Can we agree it was Luke?

Now we see in Acts 20 that at the time Paul spoke that Luke was with him.

13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed , minding himself to go afoot .

14 And when he met with us at Assos, we took him in , and came to Mitylene.


With me so far?

Now who was Luke?

Can you say one of those who was with Jesus and the twelve from the beginning?

From Gospel of Luke:

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,


Now granted Luke did not write in his Gospel that Jesus said those exact words.

That does not mean that he did not hear Jesus say it.

Or that when he was preaching in person that he didn't relate that Jesus said it.

Chances are Paul heard it from Luke or another disciple that had been with Jesus.

Paul hung out with more than one who had been with Jesus, take Barnabas for instance.

This is another reason why Nick's idea that Paul didn't write Hebrews is just another Dispy opinion.


Hebrews 2
3 How shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


So for Paul to be quoting them fellas would mean he believed em, dontcha think?


Acts 20:35 KJV I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.I understand your defensiveness and alarm. Many of my posts draw from our long tradition of historical scholarship and contextual research--most of which we have not heard from the pulpit.

I tend to be more focused on raw data, evidence and facts uncovered by normal historical methodology. This does not mean that I discount or ignore theological, faith-based verses in the Bible. It means that I try to draw a difference between faith and facts.

Jesus was a preacher in first-century Palestine: that is a statement of FACT.

Jesus was the Messiah, Son of God, etc. Those are statements of FAITH.

For myself, I identify as a Christian because I see in the man Jesus the definitive disclosure of God on earth.

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 09:28 PM
Just as Paul wrote that we are all baptized into one body in 1 Corinthians 12 does not mean that he did not address some that weren't as we can see there were some at Corinth who believed in vain (1 Corinthians 15:2 KJV) as they did not believe in the resurrection of the dead (1 Corinthians 15:12-17 KJV).

If there were some people in the church at Corinth who were not baptized into the Body of Christ then it would make no sense for Paul to write:


"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Do you not know what the word "all" means? Evidently you must think that it means only "some." You are incapable of carrying on an intelligent discussion about the meaning of this verse.


So to say that all in Corinth were in the one Body is ignorant. We cannot apply 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV to them, now can we?

You are the ignorant one because you either do not know the meaning of the word "all" or you refuse to believe what Paul said at 1 Corinthians 12:13. Again, he said that "all" those who he was addressing were in the Body. That verse is right in front of you but you are so blinded by the false teaching of those in the Neo-MAD community that you cannot even see that Paul said that "all" of them are baptized into one Body!

Not only that, but you think that 1 Corinthians contains doctrine for the kingdom church even though Paul tells them that "all" of them are baptized into the Body of Christ.

Are you now teaching that the kingdom church was made up of those belonging to the Body of Christ?

Nick M
July 28th, 2015, 09:39 PM
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

tetelestai
July 28th, 2015, 09:48 PM
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

Since you're so confused, maybe a modern translation will help you:

(1 Cor 1:2 NIV) To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 10:07 PM
It's perfectly okay to describe the activity of the inspired authors and followers of oral tradition and textual preservation in theological phrases such as "excess to the heavenly sphere..."

I spoke of those who received the book of Hebrews as having "access" to the heavenly sphere, and not "excess to the heavenly sphere."


I don't understand how the rest of the theology you offer is pertinent to an evaluation and history of the Book of Hebrews.

The subject of this thread is a discussion as to whether or not the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles (or General epistles) is doctrine for those in the Body of Christ.

And the evidence which I present proves that it is for those in the Body:

Those who received Hebrews had access into the heavenly sphere, a blessing that just applies only to those in the Body of Christ:


"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh" (Heb.10:19-20).


"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb.4:16).

It is only those who are in the Body of Christ who dwell in the very presence of God because only those in the Body have been raised up and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).


"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col.3:1).

From this we can know that it is impossible that the book of Hebrews, which tells all "to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus," is for the future tribulation when only the high priest will have access to God. Instead, these words are speaking of the access into the heavenlies which members of the Body of Christ enjoy now. Cornelius Stam, the founder of The Berean Bible Society, wrote:


"The Holiest place of the tabernacle, still closed to Jewish believers at that time, except representatively through the High Priest once each year, reminds us of our free entrance into 'the holiest of all' in heaven itself. By grace we enter the presence of God, '. . . by the blood of Jesus . . . a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh' (Heb. 10:19,20). Think of it! The old dead way replaced by 'a new and living way,' specially consecrated to our use through the blood of Christ! This is the great Pauline doctrine of our access to God (Rom. 5:2)" [emphasis mine] (Stam, The Berean Searchlight, Volume L, Number 2).

Of course this destroys the teaching within the Neo-MAD community that the doctrine found inn the book of Hebrews is not for those in the Body of Christ.

And not even one of those who deny that the doctrine found in the book of Hebrews is for those in the body has even attempted to address these facts.

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 10:15 PM
"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

Are you under the impression that the words you 'bolded" somehow nullifies Paul's words that the epistle was also addressed to those in every place who call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:


"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 04:53 AM
"kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

More like, lack of scripture.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 04:57 AM
Not that those three men [O'Hair; Baker; Stam] were ever off; right?

Ever off?

Those three men were Darby followers, what would you expect?

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 06:47 AM
If there were some people in the church at Corinth who were not baptized into the Body of Christ then it would make no sense for Paul to write:



1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 06:55 AM
There is only one congregation.

As sure as there will be a new heaven, a new earth, and the New Jerusalem, there will be a congregation to fill each.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 07:34 AM
First, to cut it out from among the other gospels found in the Bible, such as the one in the four gospels and Hebrews-Revelation.

Secondly, even though our gospel is found in all 13 letters of Paul, we should consider which ones were written before the mystery of the gospel was revealed.

Then why the exact same sense in 1 Corinthians 12 thru 14 as Romans 12 thru 15 and Ephesians 2 thru 4?

A simple example.

Romans 12:

1. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5. So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Romans 15:

7. Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.


13. Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
14. And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
15. Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
16. That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 12:

1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3. Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4. Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

Ephesians 2:

11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 3:

1. For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7. Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Ephesians 4:

1. I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2. With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3. Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4. There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6. One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

In short, this here:

1 Corinthians 12: 2. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

Is this here:

Ephesians 2: 11. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Both passages speak of where God had left the Gentiles off in Genesis 11, until the Mystery [singular, not plural].

In both passages, Paul is talking about prior, overall, Gentile status, in general, before the revelation of the Mystery of the one New Man.

2 Kings 17:

9. And the children of Israel did secretly those things that were not right against the LORD their God, and they built them high places in all their cities, from the tower of the watchmen to the fenced city.
10. And they set them up images and groves in every high hill, and under every green tree:
11. And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as did the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger:
12. For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing.

Psalm 115:

4. Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
5. They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
6. They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
7. They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
8. They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.
9. O Israel, trust thou in the LORD: he is their help and their shield.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 07:49 AM
As sure as there will be a new heaven, a new earth, and the New Jerusalem, there will be a congregation to fill each.

Nope!

Is Christ divided?

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 07:50 AM
There is only one congregation.

:up:

Christ is not divided.

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 07:55 AM
1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

First, are you now saying that even though Paul told those in the church at Cornith that they were saved by believing the gospel that they really were not?:


"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

There were some unsaved people "among" those who believed the gospel who were teaching that there is no resurrection of the dead:


"Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?" (1 Cor.15:12).

Those unbelievers who were "among" those who believed the gospel were not included in the church because those unbelievers denied the resurrection of the dead. They were not included in this group:


"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

Now back to my original question to you. You say that 1 Corinthians was written to those in the kingdom church. So are you now saying that members of the Body of Christ make up that kingdom church?:


"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 07:56 AM
1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

Did Paul call unbelievers "brothers and sisters"?

(1 Cor 15:1) Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 08:18 AM
1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

I take those passages to mean; not that they were unbelievers, but that some of them were now confused - "if" then "your faith is in vain."

1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

"Unless ye..." fits Paul's recurrent pattern of speaking that way to believers, as in Romans 8's "but if ye be led of the Spirit," for example.

Again, thanks for sharing how you see some of these things...

False Prophet
July 29th, 2015, 08:33 AM
You keep posting scriptures that have nothing to do with what you are preaching.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 08:38 AM
You keep posting scriptures that have nothing to do with what you are preaching.

Lol - and you posted that absent of who specifically it had to do with. Cool avatar, though.

"This is a job - for Superman!"

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 09:09 AM
"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain" (1 Cor.15:1-2).

These words were addressed to members of the Body of Christ (see 1 Cor.12:13). There can be no doubt about that.

There are those in the Neo-MAD community who say that 1 Corinthians is addressed to kingdom churches so what do these people say about the words in "bold" above?

Do they teach those words are saying that the kingdom saints will remain saved as long as they keep in memory what Paul preached to them? Do they teach that those who received 1 Corinthians do not enjoy eternal security?

If 1 Corinthians is written to the kingdom church then do they argue that the following is the "gospel of the circumcision"?:


"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

If those who argue that 1 Corinthians is written to the kingdom church are correct then they need to answer a lot of questions. However, answers are in short supply among these people.

They still have not answered if they believe that members of the Body of Christ make up the kingdom church.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 09:15 AM
First, are you now saying that even though Paul told those in the church at Cornith that they were saved by believing the gospel that they really were not?:


"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

There were some unsaved people "among" those who believed the gospel who were teaching that there is no resurrection of the dead:


"Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?" (1 Cor.15:12).

Those unbelievers who were "among" those who believed the gospel were not included in the church because those unbelievers denied the resurrection of the dead. They were not included in this group:


"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

Now back to my original question to you. You say that 1 Corinthians was written to those in the kingdom church. So are you now saying that members of the Body of Christ make up that kingdom church?:


"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Apparently some at Corinth, to whom Paul wrote, had believed in vain. Some said there was no such thing as resurrection.

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 09:27 AM
Apparently some at Corinth, to whom Paul wrote, had believed in vain. Some said there was no such thing as resurrection.

No, there were some unbelievers "among" the believers who denied the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. Those to whom Paul addressed in 1 Corinthians believed in the Lord's resurrection:


"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

When are you going to finally answer my question? You say that 1 Corinthians is written to the kingdom church and it is obvious that those who received 1 Corinthians were members of the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13). So do you teach that there are members of the Body of Christ in the kingdom church?

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 09:30 AM
No, there were some unbelievers "among" the believers who denied the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. Those to whom Paul addressed in 1 Corinthians believed in the Lord's resurrection:


"Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures" (1 Cor.15:1-4).

When are you going to finally answer my question? You say that 1 Corinthians is written to the kingdom church and it is obvious that those who received 1 Corinthians were members of the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13). So do you teach that there are members of the Body of Christ in the kingdom church?

To those he said "Unless you have believed in vain", he called brethren.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 09:32 AM
When are you going to finally answer my question? You say that 1 Corinthians is written to the kingdom church and it is obvious that those who received 1 Corinthians were members of the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13). So do you teach that there are members of the Body of Christ in the kingdom church?

He can't, and therefore won't answer the question, because he knows if he does, then his: "the church of God is a kingdom church" argument falls apart.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 09:37 AM
]You say that 1 Corinthians is written to the kingdom church and it is obvious that those who received 1 Corinthians were members of the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13).

It was written to the Corinthians. The church of God was there, the Body of Christ was there, and people who had believed in vain were there.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 09:39 AM
He can't, and therefore won't answer the question, because he knows if he does, then his: "the church of God is a kingdom church" argument falls apart.

As Tet continues to attempt to divide and conquer all dispensationalists, by pitting them one against the other, he fails to remember that Jerry believes the church of God was the kingdom church when Saul persecuted it.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 09:44 AM
Let's take a good hard look at this John.

For it is you who are imposing Dispensation opinion on scripture.


Who wrote Acts?

Can we agree it was Luke?

Now we see in Acts 20 that at the time Paul spoke that Luke was with him.

13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed , minding himself to go afoot .

14 And when he met with us at Assos, we took him in , and came to Mitylene.


With me so far?

Now who was Luke?

Can you say one of those who was with Jesus and the twelve from the beginning?

From Gospel of Luke:

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,


Now granted Luke did not write in his Gospel that Jesus said those exact words.

That does not mean that he did not hear Jesus say it.

Or that when he was preaching in person that he didn't relate that Jesus said it.

Chances are Paul heard it from Luke or another disciple that had been with Jesus.

Paul hung out with more than one who had been with Jesus, take Barnabas for instance.

This is another reason why Nick's idea that Paul didn't write Hebrews is just another Dispy opinion.


Hebrews 2
3 How shall we escape , if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


So for Paul to be quoting them fellas would mean he believed em, dontcha think?


Acts 20:35 KJV I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

You missed his "argument," Jeff-pay attention, or put down your bong:


"The only way one can answer you is for both of us to recognize what exactly is IN the Bible as far as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament. "-him


Sit.

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 09:44 AM
To those he said "Unless you have believed in vain", he called brethren.

You obviously do not know what a first class conditional statement is.

According to your ideas those in the Body of Christ can lose their salvation. That is why you continue to refuse to answer this simple question:


You say that 1 Corinthians is written to the kingdom church and it is obvious that those who received 1 Corinthians were members of the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13). So do you teach that there are members of the Body of Christ in the kingdom church?


It was written to the Corinthians. The church of God was there, the Body of Christ was there, and people who had believed in vain were there.

first, you said that 1 Corinthians was written to the kingdom church. Now you say that it was written to the kingdom church as well as to the Body of Christ and people who had believed in vain.

You just make up your theology as you go along.

And I am not aware of any recognized MAD teacher who agrees with your convoluted teaching. In the Neo-MAD movement we hear over and over that the only epistles which apply to the Body of Christ are Romans through Philemon but now you say that 1 Corinthians is for the kingdom church!

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 09:47 AM
he fails to remember that Jerry believes the church of God was the kingdom church when Saul persecuted it.

Then you're both wrong.

The church of God has always been believers in Christ Jesus, who are members of the Body of Christ

Why did Paul tell Timothy the following:

(1 Tim 3:5 KJV) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

According to you "the church of God" is another name for your "kingdom church". If so, why is Paul giving instructions about the church of God to Timothy?

john w
July 29th, 2015, 09:48 AM
Ever off?

Those three men were Darby followers, what would you expect?

Stumped as again, wimp.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 09:48 AM
Then you're both wrong.



Oh.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 09:49 AM
You obviously do not know what a first class conditional statement is.

According to your ideas those in the Body of Christ can lose their salvation. That is why you continue to refuse to answer this simple question:


You say that 1 Corinthians is written to the kingdom church and it is obvious that those who received 1 Corinthians were members of the Body of Christ (1 Cor.12:13). So do you teach that there are members of the Body of Christ in the kingdom church?

Jerry, would you rather have fellowship with those whom you agree with on probably 90%, or be right about everything and try to force everyone else to agree with you?

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 09:50 AM
I understand your defensiveness and alarm. Many of my posts draw from our long tradition of historical scholarship and contextual research--most of which we have not heard from the pulpit.

I tend to be more focused on raw data, evidence and facts uncovered by normal historical methodology. This does not mean that I discount or ignore theological, faith-based verses in the Bible. It means that I try to draw a difference between faith and facts.

Jesus was a preacher in first-century Palestine: that is a statement of FACT.

Jesus was the Messiah, Son of God, etc. Those are statements of FAITH.

For myself, I identify as a Christian because I see in the man Jesus the definitive disclosure of God on earth.

Everything I wrote musta zinged right over yer head.

Try believing what is written, then apply some common sense.

:)

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 09:50 AM
Oh.

(1 Tim 3:5 KJV) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Is "the church of God" in the above verse a "kingdom church"?

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 09:53 AM
(1 Tim 3:5 KJV) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Is "the church of God" in the above verse a "kingdom church"?

Of course.

Who are "them that have not" in the Corinthian letters?

Ben Masada
July 29th, 2015, 09:55 AM
In the gospel of Paul. I have no doubt at all that the Epistle to the Hebrews was written by Paul. Perhaps he wrote anonymously in order not to harm his few disciples in Israel who were forbidden to raise a Christian church in the land of Israel, especially Jerusalem, wherefrom Paul was banished from ever return. But the style and the message could not be of any one else but Paul.

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 09:56 AM
You missed his "argument," Jeff-pay attention, or put down your bong:


"The only way one can answer you is for both of us to recognize what exactly is IN the Bible as far as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament. "-him


Sit.

So this verse isn't in the bible?

Put yer thinkin' cap on big boy and explain it away.



Acts 20:35 KJV I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Then you're both wrong.

The church of God has always been believers in Christ Jesus, who are members of the Body of Christ

Why did Paul tell Timothy the following:

(1 Tim 3:5 KJV) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

According to you "the church of God" is another name for your "kingdom church". If so, why is Paul giving instructions about the church of God to Timothy?

Fool, you don't even know what our differences within Mid-Acts are, just as you don't know your Partial differences between you and your fellow Partialist: Interplanner.

And you have no answer as none us are Partailists.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 09:59 AM
Don't you ever get tired of making things up over and over again?

Do you even keep track of the things you make up?

Good one, Gomer-like your made up "invention," punk, that the Roman army was the second coming, eh, Gome?


Don't you ever get tired of making things up over and over again, and then lying about what you said?

Do you even keep track of the things you lie about, habitual liar of TOL? Like this one, sweetie?:

"Tet: "The LORD Jesus Christ returned in the form of a Roman Army." "-STP

"Never said that."-Tet.



That is your MO/"ministry" on TOL-habitual lying.


"Tet is a preterist that believes Christ already returned in 70 AD via the Roman Army."-Tambora, on another TOL thread

"Correct, and thanks for making it clear that it was the Roman army that was His return."-stupid Craigie

You are so obsessed with us meanie MAD-ists, you can't keep track of all your lies, spin.


Made up:

"The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. That is what Jesus meant when He said He will return."-Gomer Tet.


Who taught you that, Gome? No scripture says that. Go ahead, Craigie, and assert that you learned that all on your own, from reading your fake "modern" bibles. Go ahead.

Fraud-you learned that "AD 70" "invention," from J. Stuart Stewart Russell's books, from which you plagiarize/copy'npaste.


You're a Russellite, and Hank Hanegraaf groupie. You're in denial. Why do you follow the teachings/"inventions" of "fallable" "men," Craigie.

He taught all of TOL that spam-we learned it from him.

Once again, he won't touch this post, nor dual the great saint John W, as he knows I'll pick him apart, along with his satanic AD 70/Preterist "invention."


Come on, Craigie-gives us another "Darby" spam/debate ender. Please?

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 10:00 AM
Of course.

Unbelievable.

You are claiming that Paul is instructing Timothy about the "kingdom church"?


Who are "them that have not" in the Corinthian letters?

They were people who didn't have houses to eat or drink in.

(1 Cor 11:22 KJV) 2 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:05 AM
They were people who didn't have houses to eat or drink in.

(1 Cor 11:22 KJV) 2 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

Why?

Sell all thou hast.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 10:05 AM
Fool, you don't even know what our differences within Mid-Acts are,

Says the person who says he isn't Mid-Acts:


I am not even Mid-Acts, really, though I favor it over all other approaches.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:06 AM
"Tet: "The LORD Jesus Christ returned in the form of a Roman Army." "-STP

"Never said that."-Tet.





Let me know if you ever buy that one, saint john. Cause George Strait has some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:07 AM
Everything I wrote musta zinged right over yer head.

Try believing what is written, then apply some common sense.

:)

"Try believing what is written,.."-Jeff

Wow! Neither I, nor any other member of TOL, nor anyone, in the history of the world, had ever thought of that.


Thanks for unpacking that for us, Jeff. I've filed that one, in an envelope, that has been hermetically sealed, and kept it, in a #2 mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls' back porch. I'll zing everyone with that stumper, when I'm bamboozled-it's a real groovy "sales close."

Hi Yo!!!

Thanks for checkin' in.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:09 AM
"Try believing what is written,.."-Jeff

Wow! Neither I, nor any other member of TOL, nor anyone, in the history of the world, had ever thought of that.


Thanks for unpacking that for us, Jeff. I've filed that one, in an envelope, that has been hermetically sealed, and kept it, in a #2 mayonnaise jar on Funk and Wagnalls' back porch. I'll zing everyone with that stumper, when I'm bamboozled-it's a real groovy "sales close."

Hi Yo!!!

Thanks for checkin' in.

It's throwing me off how you're calling this fella Jeff.
You're not talking to a jerk, you know.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:11 AM
So this verse isn't in the bible?

Put yer thinkin' cap on big boy and explain it away.



Acts 20:35 KJV I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

I will slow it down for you, Jeff

You missed his "argument," Jeff-pay attention, or put down your bong:



"The only way one can answer you is for both of us to recognize what exactly is IN the Bible as far as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament. "-him

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:11 AM
Come on, Craigie-gives us another "Darby" spam/debate ender. Please?

Last count there were 83 death knells to MAD. How many does it take?

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 10:12 AM
Why?

Because they were poor.


Sell all thou hast.

Nice try.

You do know the church of God at Corinth didn't exist in Acts 2?

Why would Paul give Timothy instructions about a "kingdom church"?

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 10:14 AM
Last count there were 83 death knells to MAD. How many does it take?

Apparently not enough for you.

You're determined to defend Darby's false teachings to your grave.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:15 AM
It's throwing me off how you're calling this fella Jeff.
You're not talking to a jerk, you know.

JTSk5cbaZso

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:16 AM
You do know the church of God at Corinth didn't exist in Acts 2?



I don't know that.

Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:17 AM
Apparently not enough for you.

You're determined to defend Darby's false teachings to your grave.

I will have to answer to God for it.

Be prepared to answer for how that Roman army was the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ.

I hope I get to watch.

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 10:18 AM
Jerry, would you rather have fellowship with those whom you agree with on probably 90%, or be right about everything and try to force everyone else to agree with you?

I have fellowship with the truth found in the Bible. And on the subject of what epistles are for those in the Body of Christ your teaching couldn't be further from the truth.

Besides that, it is impossible to "force" anyone to believe anything. But I post on this subject in the hope that those who might consider following the misguided teaching of the Neo-MADS will see that your teaching is in error.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:18 AM
Apparently not enough for you.

You're determined to defend Darby's false teachings to your grave.

As I predicted.


What a clown-even you know it, Gomer. That's all you have in your holster-your "Darby" spam bullets. Weighty, Craigie the Clown.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:18 AM
JTSk5cbaZso

Far out...

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 10:23 AM
I will slow it down for you, Jeff

You missed his "argument," Jeff-pay attention, or put down your bong:



"The only way one can answer you is for both of us to recognize what exactly is IN the Bible as far as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament. "-him



Here, let me slow it down for you son.

Yer original post to the guy was about his opinions.

Mine to you was about yers.

Now let's hear yer Dispensational opinion on where Paul got the idea Jesus said it is more blessed to give than to receive.

Sitting by patiently waiting.........

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 10:27 AM
I don't understand how the rest of the theology you offer is pertinent to an evaluation and history of the Book of Hebrews.

The subject of this thread is a discussion as to whether or not the doctrine found in the Hebrew epistles (or General epistles) is doctrine for those in the Body of Christ.

And the evidence which I present proves that it is for those in the Body:

Those who received Hebrews had access into the heavenly sphere, a blessing that just applies only to those in the Body of Christ:


"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh" (Heb.10:19-20).


"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb.4:16).

It is only those who are in the Body of Christ who dwell in the very presence of God because only those in the Body have been raised up and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).


"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col.3:1).

From this we can know that it is impossible that the book of Hebrews, which tells all "to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus," is for the future tribulation when only the high priest will have access to God. Instead, these words are speaking of the access into the heavenlies which members of the Body of Christ enjoy now. Cornelius Stam, the founder of The Berean Bible Society, wrote:


"The Holiest place of the tabernacle, still closed to Jewish believers at that time, except representatively through the High Priest once each year, reminds us of our free entrance into 'the holiest of all' in heaven itself. By grace we enter the presence of God, '. . . by the blood of Jesus . . . a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh' (Heb. 10:19,20). Think of it! The old dead way replaced by 'a new and living way,' specially consecrated to our use through the blood of Christ! This is the great Pauline doctrine of our access to God (Rom. 5:2)" [emphasis mine] (Stam, The Berean Searchlight, Volume L, Number 2).

Of course this destroys the teaching within the Neo-MAD community that the doctrine found inn the book of Hebrews is not for those in the Body of Christ.

And not even one of those who deny that the doctrine found in the book of Hebrews is for those in the body has even attempted to address these facts.

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 10:30 AM
Why?

Sell all thou hast.

When you gonna learn to read what is written.

Those at Jerusalem sold their extra possessions and land.

They continued to break bread from house to house.

:noway:

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:30 AM
Because they were poor.



Nice try.

You do know the church of God at Corinth didn't exist in Acts 2?

Why would Paul give Timothy instructions about a "kingdom church"?

There are many poor people that need $'s, Craigie.


Since you assert that all scripture is written to everybody, for their obedience, do it.

Tell us the AD 70/Preterist "thinking process," "interpretive method,"for determining what is written to members of the boc, for their obedience, and what is not. Lay it out for us, Craigie. You know the "dispie" interpretive method, for understanding the book. Spell out yours.


Let me guess:


1. Darby....Darby....


2. Fulfilled in AD 70-from:


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AzkRtO6dL._SX321_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hYQo8QjkrmU/TyN6LCsDZnI/AAAAAAAAAns/9kAC7bj4OY8/s1600/$(KGrHqR,!hgE6Z+zQ0RGBOyt2wfJPg~~60_12.JPG


3. You're in denial...Figurative...I was a dispensationalist for 25 years....No one taught dispensationalism until Wyatt Earp did, at "The OK Corral"...........Allegory....Why don't you believe the bible/"Jesus"/Paul?............


"The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. That is what Jesus meant when He said He will return."-Gomer Tet.


And tell us who taught you the above, Gome? No scripture says that. Go ahead, Craigie, and assert that you learned that all on your own, from reading your fake "modern" bibles. Go ahead.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 10:30 AM
Jerry ought to change his name to Desperate But Determined, lol

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:34 AM
Let me know if you ever buy that one, saint john. Cause George Strait has some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

You're in denial, Mayor.

"We now live in a new heaven and a new earth. .... we now live in the new heavens and new earth...Yes, we are living in the millennial reign right now."- Craigie

"....we now live in the greatest time period since the creation of planet earth"-Big Top Tettie the Clown

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:39 AM
Last count there were 83 death knells to MAD. How many does it take?

Well, Mayor, I'm waiting for Gomer Tet. to "resurrect" his "MAD can't even agree on..............(fill in the blank)" "argument," to baffle us, so much so, that we are "speechless." Of course, this satanic ploy of his, automatically means that Christianity is false, as is Preterism(Full Preterism, Partial Preterism................)


"Darby" is due...."Wait for it.."

saint "Radar" John W

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:39 AM
When you gonna learn to read what is written.



I will try that. Thanks fella.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 10:39 AM
You're in denial, Mayor.

"We now live in a new heaven and a new earth. .... we now live in the new heavens and new earth...Yes, we are living in the millennial reign right now."- Craigie

"....we now live in the greatest time period since the creation of planet earth"-Big Top Tettie the Clown

And the likes of Tet, is all that we have left to look forward to...

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:43 AM
Here, let me slow it down for you son.

Yer original post to the guy was about his opinions.

Mine to you was about yers.

Now let's hear yer Dispensational opinion on where Paul got the idea Jesus said it is more blessed to give than to receive.

Sitting by patiently waiting.........

Deception. You did not argue "Yer original post to the guy was about his opinions" in your initial "post,"you puffed up like a bullfrog in heat blowhard, so stuff your rabbit trail/misdirection, as I stayed on topic-his, and not your emotional blubberings, and "tough guy" routine.


"Sitting by patiently waiting........"-Jeff

Another "original" stunner/cliche. Please teach us....Please?



Now, I told you to have a seat. Be a dear, and I might just recognize you in the future.

Dig, Jeff? Cool.


"Yer ...yers"-Jeff

This is a theology site, not a "dating/relationship" site, Jeff.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:45 AM
Well, Mayor, I'm waiting for Gomer Tet. to "resurrect" his "MAD can't even agree on..............(fill in the blank)" "argument," to baffle us, so much so, that we are "speechless." Of course, this satanic ploy of his, automatically means that Christianity is false, as is Preterism(Full Preterism, Partial Preterism................)


"Darby" is due...."Wait for it.."

saint "Radar" John W

My favorite was skittles and cockroaches.
I hope he resurrects that line.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:49 AM
When you gonna learn to read what is written.

Those at Jerusalem sold their extra possessions and land.

They continued to break bread from house to house.

:noway:

"When you gonna learn to read what is written."-Jeff


One more time, Jeff? Please? Give us "The Trifecta!" Are you "gonna?" You taught us such eloquence.


"gonna learn"

Is that like "dry water?"

Imafixinta file that one, also.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 10:51 AM
"When you gonna learn to read what is written."-Jeff


One more time, Jeff? Please? Give us "The Trifecta!" Are you "gonna?" You taught us such eloquence.


"gonna learn"

Is that like "dry water?"

Imafixinta file that one, also.

Next he will be telling us, "This isn't your class. This is our class, Mr Hand."

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:56 AM
I will try that. Thanks fella.

I'm surprised that you did not know that, Mayor; you know "The Emancipation Proclamation," and "Acapella. . . Acapella..." Curious.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 10:59 AM
My favorite was skittles and cockroaches.
I hope he resurrects that line.

How about, "Err...no....dispensationalism is a mess..."?


He stole the "mess" reference from me. No one taught "What a mess" until me.....

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 11:00 AM
There are many poor people that need $'s, Craigie.


Since you assert that all scripture is written to everybody, for their obedience, do it.

Tell us the AD 70/Preterist "thinking process," "interpretive method,"for determining what is written to members of the boc, for their obedience, and what is not. Lay it out for us, Craigie. You know the "dispie" interpretive method, for understanding the book. Spell out yours.


Let me guess:


1. Darby....Darby....


2. Fulfilled in AD 70-from:


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AzkRtO6dL._SX321_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hYQo8QjkrmU/TyN6LCsDZnI/AAAAAAAAAns/9kAC7bj4OY8/s1600/$(KGrHqR,!hgE6Z+zQ0RGBOyt2wfJPg~~60_12.JPG


3. You're in denial...Figurative...I was a dispensationalist for 25 years....No one taught dispensationalism until Wyatt Earp did, at "The OK Corral"...........Allegory....Why don't you believe the bible/"Jesus"/Paul?............


"The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. That is what Jesus meant when He said He will return."-Gomer Tet.


And tell us who taught you the above, Gome? No scripture says that. Go ahead, Craigie, and assert that you learned that all on your own, from reading your fake "modern" bibles. Go ahead.

So then yer admitting that Dispensationism has no footing in the letters to Corinth?

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 11:02 AM
Danoh ought to change his title to "Not Interested in the Truth."

That explains why he just ignores what I wrote here:

This evidence proves that the doctrine contained in the book of Hebrews is for those in the Body of Christ:

Those who received Hebrews had access into the heavenly sphere, a blessing that just applies only to those in the Body of Christ:


"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh" (Heb.10:19-20).


"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb.4:16).

It is only those who are in the Body of Christ who dwell in the very presence of God because only those in the Body have been raised up and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).


"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col.3:1).

From this we can know that it is impossible that the book of Hebrews, which tells all "to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus," is for the future tribulation when only the high priest will have access to God. Instead, these words are speaking of the access into the heavenlies which members of the Body of Christ enjoy now. Cornelius Stam, the founder of The Berean Bible Society, wrote:


"The Holiest place of the tabernacle, still closed to Jewish believers at that time, except representatively through the High Priest once each year, reminds us of our free entrance into 'the holiest of all' in heaven itself. By grace we enter the presence of God, '. . . by the blood of Jesus . . . a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh' (Heb. 10:19,20). Think of it! The old dead way replaced by 'a new and living way,' specially consecrated to our use through the blood of Christ! This is the great Pauline doctrine of our access to God (Rom. 5:2)" [emphasis mine] (Stam, The Berean Searchlight, Volume L, Number 2).

Of course this destroys the teaching within the Neo-MAD community that the doctrine found inn the book of Hebrews is not for those in the Body of Christ.

And not even one of those who deny that the doctrine found in the book of Hebrews is for those in the body has even attempted to address these facts.

Since Danoh has no interest in the truth found in the Bible he just closes his eyes to this truth.

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 11:16 AM
Deception. You did not argue "Yer original post to the guy was about his opinions" in your initial "post,"you puffed up like a bullfrog in heat blowhard, so stuff your rabbit trail/misdirection, as I stayed on topic-his, and not your emotional blubberings, and "tough guy" routine.


"Sitting by patiently waiting........"-Jeff

Another "original" stunner/cliche. Please teach us....Please?



Now, I told you to have a seat. Be a dear, and I might just recognize you in the future.

Dig, Jeff? Cool.


"Yer ...yers"-Jeff

This is a theology site, not a "dating/relationship" site, Jeff.

Still patiently waiting.......... :rotfl:

john w
July 29th, 2015, 11:35 AM
So then yer admitting that Dispensationism has no footing in the letters to Corinth?

I told you to have a seat, Jeff, until I decide to recognize you/engage you-"Yer outa order."

How did I do? You gonna hep me?

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 11:36 AM
Danoh ought to change his title to "Not Interested in the Truth."

That explains why he just ignores what I wrote here:

This evidence proves that the doctrine contained in the book of Hebrews is for those in the Body of Christ:

Those who received Hebrews had access into the heavenly sphere, a blessing that just applies only to those in the Body of Christ:


"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh" (Heb.10:19-20).


"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb.4:16).

It is only those who are in the Body of Christ who dwell in the very presence of God because only those in the Body have been raised up and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).


"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col.3:1).

From this we can know that it is impossible that the book of Hebrews, which tells all "to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus," is for the future tribulation when only the high priest will have access to God. Instead, these words are speaking of the access into the heavenlies which members of the Body of Christ enjoy now. Cornelius Stam, the founder of The Berean Bible Society, wrote:


"The Holiest place of the tabernacle, still closed to Jewish believers at that time, except representatively through the High Priest once each year, reminds us of our free entrance into 'the holiest of all' in heaven itself. By grace we enter the presence of God, '. . . by the blood of Jesus . . . a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh' (Heb. 10:19,20). Think of it! The old dead way replaced by 'a new and living way,' specially consecrated to our use through the blood of Christ! This is the great Pauline doctrine of our access to God (Rom. 5:2)" [emphasis mine] (Stam, The Berean Searchlight, Volume L, Number 2).

Of course this destroys the teaching within the Neo-MAD community that the doctrine found inn the book of Hebrews is not for those in the Body of Christ.

And not even one of those who deny that the doctrine found in the book of Hebrews is for those in the body has even attempted to address these facts.

Since Danoh has no interest in the truth found in the Bible he just closes his eyes to this truth.

Hah; you broke your word - you said you were going to ignore my posts.

:devil:

john w
July 29th, 2015, 11:37 AM
Still patiently waiting.......... :rotfl:

"Still patiently waiting.......... "-second time for that stumper/cliche....

TOL is mesmerized... Please? "The Trifecta!!!" More!!!

"rotfl"-Jeff


Next up: Roflmao...TTYL....wink....

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 12:00 PM
I told you to have a seat, Jeff, until I decide to recognize you/engage you-"Yer outa order."

How did I do? You gonna hep me?

I'll take that as a concession to Tet's point.

Which was that it was to poor folks not yer buddy STP's false idea that they were Jerusalem saints who had sold everything.

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 12:02 PM
"Still patiently waiting.......... "-second time for that stumper/cliche....

TOL is mesmerized... Please? "The Trifecta!!!" More!!!

"rotfl"-Jeff


Next up: Roflmao...TTYL....wink....

So you wont offer us yer great and learned opinion on where Paul got the idea that Jesus said it is more righteous to give than to receive?

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 12:11 PM
I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

You are so confused because earlier you said this which refers to 1 Corinthians:


Romans-Philemon: 13 letters for the dispensation of the gospel, heavenly inheritance

Do you think that the 'kingdom church" has a heavenly inheritance?

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 12:22 PM
I did not respond to anything which Danoh said. Notice that I quoted nothing about what she said. Instead, I just explained why she should change her title.

And true to form she showed no interest in the truth which I pointed out from the book of Hebrews and how that truth can only be doctrine which is for those in the Body of Christ.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 12:42 PM
I did not respond to anything which Danoh said. Notice that I quoted nothing about what she said. Instead, I just explained why she should change her title.

And true to form she showed no interest in the truth which I pointed out from the book of Hebrews and how that truth can only be doctrine which is for those in the Body of Christ.

What "she" are you talking about? Or are you assuming again?

nonanomanon
July 29th, 2015, 01:22 PM
Here, let me slow it down for you son.

Yer original post to the guy was about his opinions.

Mine to you was about yers.

Now let's hear yer Dispensational opinion on where Paul got the idea Jesus said it is more blessed to give than to receive.

Sitting by patiently waiting.........

ACTS 9:11 And the Lord [said] unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for [one] called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

Paul's journey with Jesus originally began when he threw his dirty undies at Jesus. Notice the Apostle Paul does this after witnessing Jesus restore the soldier's ear that Peter had cut off. Because the earth was given no glory in the way Jesus choose to end his testimony leading to the crucifixion.

Paul continues his campaign by spearheading the prosecution of the church, under the guise that they are heathen dogs. Holding to the teaching of the "John the Baptist", which he portrayed as uncleanness convicting them of the Church, as being sorely uncomely. (Continuing in the pattern established by Herod).

Paul along with others, obviously wanted to reform the church as a branch of socialist reform and reinforcement. Driving people out of the church, stealing their money, and establishing these places as reformists under the authority of the Church under roman law, simply became an established pattern.

Paul is eventually baptized by Jesus, as he is allowed to see the "conclusion of the process of faith", that is Star Wormwood. Now Acts 9:11 begins to come into play where the Apostle Paul begins to Act out how Judah will fulfill the final branch of the Gospel's Program (where ultimately the "Heart of Judah", is the only one left living, after having stolen all the Jews, and using them as vessels of reform for the nations previously).

Paul is baptized as a gentile scribe, he records what he can from the apostles and the elect, and steals their testimony as his own. Instead of stealing money and positions of authority from the churches, God appoints him to record or steal away the testimony of his elect for a short duration. .................... one of the notable things Paul had done was give out Napkins or Cloths that were blessed to heal the sick, clearly indicating that he was advancing his program of reforming the Church, which had been giving out Idols for payment for some time. Paul in his own way was still attempting to steal the hearts of the Church, much like the "Heart of Judah" has stolen all the Jewish People to identify the USA, and the arrival of Joseph the Antichrist, according to Ezekiel 37:16-19 and Lamentation 2:18-19.

(Jesus had multiplied bread and fish to feed many, and Paul had observed that Giving was better then Receiving, as a mechanism of reform, much like he attempted to give out his miracle healing Napkins, to win their hearts. Paul began to see Christianity as a mechanism of socialist reform ............ bordering into the realm of gentility, which could be considered a rejection of the Body of Christ ............... much like how Judah is left behind for 153 Days (Rev. 5:5), and they are left to climb by migration to join the Body of Christ, which is a picture of Star Wormwood, by putting off their self righteous gentilities)

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 01:23 PM
Here John is telling those to whom he was addressing that when the Lord Jesus appears that they will be like Him:


"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

There was never a teaching in regard to kingdom saints which spoke of living saints being made like the Lord Jesus at His appearing so this has to refer to the rapture.

And it will only be those in the Body of Christ who will be raptured. Therefore, the saints who were being addressed by John were members of the Body of Christ.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 01:23 PM
I'll take that as a concession to Tet's point.

Which was that it was to poor folks not yer buddy STP's false idea that they were Jerusalem saints who had sold everything.

"I'll take that as a concession..."-Jeff

Well, Jeff, you are starting to bore us, with these cliches...


"Which was that it was to poor folks not yer buddy STP's false idea that they were Jerusalem saints who had sold everything."-Jeff

For the babes, sheep, not for Jeff, as he refuses to rightly divide the word of truth, refuses to recognize the divisions in the book, the most important being between the prophetic program, primarily dealing with the installment of the Lord Jesus Christ, by God the Father, as King of Kings, on earth, because of what He did 2000+ years ago, ruling with an iron hand, from Jerusalem, and the nation Israel, as His ministers, kingdom of priests, witnesses, "the head...not the tail...," who has an earthly inheritance, and unbelieving nations, on earth, and the fulfillment of the plan of "as the days of heaven upon the earth"(Deut. 11:21 KJV), the "gospel of the kingdom," vs. the mystery program, which focuses on the Lord Jesus Christ as "head of the body," and members of the body of Christ, as His ambassadors, stewards.......whose inheritance is in "heavenly places," and the gospel of the grace of God....

The command to sell all, leave all,... was given in the context of the impending time of "The Great Trib," the antichrist pursuing them, "Give us this day our daily bread..."(Mt. 6:11 KJV, Luke 11:3 KJV)....




Lord Jesus Christ commanded his disciples to sell all:

Command given: Mt. 19:21 KJV, Mk. 10:21 KJV, ;Luke 12:33 KJV, 18:22 KJV
Command obeyed: Mt. 19:27 KJV;Mk. 10:28 KJV;Luke 5:11KJV, 18:28 KJV, Acts 2:44-45 KJV,4:32-34 KJV
Penalty for disobedience-death-Acts 5:1-11 KJV

Do you have "...all things common...": Acts 2:44 KJV, 4:32-34 KJV , 3:6 KJV?

Well?


"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46 KJV


Have you sold all your possessions? This is one of the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ, in simple, 6th grade English, Jethro- in the context of the impendingf "Great Trib:"

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matthew 19:21 KJV

"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth." Luke 12:32-33 KJV

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22 KJV

Read it-"sell all that thou hast,"

Watch the spin..."He really did not mean that literally- He was merely ONLY attempting to teach/convey a spiritual truth", or, "that was before the cross and the resurrection"............No, he disciples did exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ said, both before and after the death, burial, and resurrection:

"before"

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?" Matthew 19:27 KJV

Read it-"we have forsaken all,"

"Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee." Mark 10:28 KJV

"Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee." Luke 18:28 KJV

Read it-"we have left all"

"after"

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2:44 KJV , Acts 2:45 KJV

Read it-"all things in common"

"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." Acts 3:6 KJV


That is why Peter said "Silver and gold have I none;"-he sold it all, per direct orders, from the Commander In Chief, the Lord Jesus Christ, the reason being in the context of the impending(at that time) "Great Trib." And thus, the directive to pray to God the Father, for His provisions, "Give us this day our daily bread," makes sense in the context of the "Great Trib," i.e., fleeing from the antichrist, and the remnant asking for deliverance, from the man of sin...


"but deliver us from evil:



Matthew 6 KJV
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.



"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35 KJV

Read it-"all things in common"/They sold their homes, land.
Communism, folks. Anyone doing that today? I thought so. Watch the upcoming spin.....Watch.



Go, ahead, spinners.....Provide your analysis as to the merits of communism, i.e., "...all things common..." vs. "free enterprise"/"capitalism", per Acts 11:29 KJV ,"every man according to his ability...", " today. And we must "leave out "

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." 1 Timothy 5:8 KJV

....since, obviously Paul had not read the previous cited scriptures. Why Paul?!)

Penalty for disobedience:death-Acts 5:1-11 KJV, per Numbers 15:29-31 KJV :

"Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them. But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him."

I expect each and every believer to "Produce your cause......bring forth your strong reasons...", as to why you do obey these commands, or, conversely, why you "....do not do the things which I say..."(Luke 6:46 KJV). If you do obey these commands, I would at least respect your intellectual honesty, and your consistency.

As Elijah of old demanded, and I likewise demand: "...How long halt ye between two opinions?..." (1 Kings 18:21 KJV)

And I do not expect "....And the people answered him not a word...." (1 Kings 18:21 KJV)




"Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:..." Romans 14:8 KJV

That is, the Messiah, the Christ came to confirm the promises made to the Jews-not the body of Christ(which was not in existence at that time). The 12 were given the honor of being the vessels by which Israel would get back on track, to fulfill their calling as a "nation of priests"(Ex. 19:5-6 KJV; 1 Peter 2:5-9 KJV; Rev. 1:6 KJV, Rev. 5:10 KJV-the body of Christ is never referred to as a "priesthood", despite the RCO claims to the contrary; the only "priesthood" ever recognized by the LORD God on earth pertained/will pertain to the nation of Israel), ministering to them so as to show them how to make known the Messiah to the world-this particular mission had no reference/application to any so designated "Christian" "the" Church.

And thus, this is the "back drop" to what was happening in the "early Acts" period, as the apostles were given the privileged task, the "Great Commission",in the absence of their Messiah, to persuade, convict, convince Israel first, and then all nations(Gentiles). They were not only given the spiritual gifts, the "power from on high" of the Holy Spirit to accomplish this task, they were given the authority to "forgive"/"judge" "sins"/"offenses" in the absence of the Lord, and this authority was given and promised to them by this same Lord. And this authority as "judges" would continue right on into the promised,prophetic program's millennial kingdom. The apostles, as the "little flock"(Luke 12:32 KJV), had the kingdom given to them; and just as the Lord Jesus Christ forgave sins, as he had been given by the Father the power to execute judgment(John 5:22 KJV-judgment is delegated),they were given this authority as well. .

This prophetic program has been put on hold temporarily, with the raising up of the apostle Paul(who was not, nor ever will be, one of the12), and the introduction of the mystery program (a discussion of this here, in one thread, is not appropriate), and thus the spiritual gifts, including word of knowledge, raising the dead, tongues, prophecy........(all of which they also did) have ceased, and the "judging/remitting" of sins. However, when the prophetic program resumes, with its corresponding privileged status of Israel, and the Lord Jesus Christ returns to set up his 1000 year millennial reign on earth, from His throne, His "throne of glory", the apostles, the "little flock", will be in that kingdom, on earth, in their resurrected bodies, fulfilling their honored/privileged role as kingdom officials, with full designated power and authority for judgment.



And this explains why the command to "sell everything" in early Acts, if understood in the context of the prophetic program. The impending "Great Tribulation" grew near, and the advent of "...the days of heaven upon the earth..."(Deut. 11:21 KJV). Had the Jews accepted the apostles's testimony of the coming millennial kingdom, the Lord Jesus Christ would have returned after the Great Tribulation, established His millennial reign, and established universally the "socialism/communism" as depicted in early Acts. The 12 and "the little flock" of the Messiah's followers did begin to carry out their "Great Commission"-they did "the things" which their Master told them to do(Luke 6:46 KJV). They did sell all their belongings and distribute to the needy(Acts 2:44- 45 KJV; Acts 4:34-35 KJV). They did go forth without material provision/posessions, so that Peter could say, infallibly, "...Silver and gold have I none..."(Acts 3:6 KJV)-they sold it all. They spent hours in the temple and ceremonially observed law.(Acts 2:46 KJV, Acts 3:1 KJV, Acts 5:42 KJV, Acts 21:20 KJV). They required water baptism for the remission of sins, and miraculous signs, per Mark 16:17, did follow those that did believe(Acts 2:4 KJV, Acts 3:6-11 KJV, Acts 5:12-16 KJV; Hebrews 2:3-4 KJV...........). By reading Acts carefully, you can observe how carefully and meticulously they obeyed every command of their "Great Commission"-they fulfilled Luke 6:46 KJV. And this included selling all-it was not an "option", or a "suggestion", nor was it based on their "intent." Ananias and Sapphira sold a possession, and yet "kept back" a "part" of the land they sold. Their "intent" was judged with death.


Rightly divide the word of truth, or you will end up being a "Catholic," "Church of Christ-er," "7th Day Advent-ist,"................................=lost.



POTD=Post Of The Decade.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 01:27 PM
So you wont offer us yer great and learned opinion on where Paul got the idea that Jesus said it is more righteous to give than to receive?

I don't offer "opinions" like you do, Jeff. I give you, and others, chapter , and verse, inluding 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, in which to soak your "all scripture is about me, written to me, for my obedience" heads.

Sit.

"yer"

Slower: This is not a dating site, Jeff.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 01:38 PM
You are so confused because earlier you said this which refers to 1 Corinthians:





Certainly, Romans-Philemon is written to the body of Christ, and contains the doctrine for us to live by. Everyone mentioned in those letters, however, is not in the Body.


Is this written to the Body, Jerry?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 01:40 PM
Slower: This is not a dating site, Jeff.

I guess he won't be getting a myspace request from you, saint john.

SaulToPaul
July 29th, 2015, 01:41 PM
POTD=Post Of The Decade.

Tet: "More like Post of The Darby."

Tambora
July 29th, 2015, 01:46 PM
Certainly, Romans-Philemon is written to the body of Christ, and contains the doctrine for us to live by. Everyone mentioned in those letters, however, is not in the Body.


Is this written to the Body, Jerry?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v710/sissypoo/SMILES/92635659c36dc8fc07406bfa87b179f9d38.gif


No.

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 02:41 PM
Certainly, Romans-Philemon is written to the body of Christ, and contains the doctrine for us to live by. Everyone mentioned in those letters, however, is not in the Body.

But you said that the Church of God at 1 Corinthians 1:2 is the "kingdom church":


I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

If Paul was addressing the kingdom church then why do you say that 1 Corinthians was in regard to a heavenly inheritance?


Romans-Philemon: 13 letters for the dispensation of the gospel, heavenly inheritance

Do you believe that those in the kingdom church had a heavenly inheritance?


Is this written to the Body, Jerry?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Of course! After all, James told these same believers the following:


"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).

Do you think that a person who is begotten by God and then become unborn?

Besides that, Paul speaks of the possibility of those in the Body becoming conformed to this word:


"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God" (Ro.12:2).

So this truth can be applied to those in the Body of Christ:


"You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God" (Jas.4:4).

john w
July 29th, 2015, 02:50 PM
I guess he won't be getting a myspace request from you, saint john.

Correctamundo, "Chuck."

john w
July 29th, 2015, 02:51 PM
Tet: "More like Post of The Darby."

You forgot "John Nelson."


You are in denial.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 03:35 PM
I hope I get to watch.

Typical comment from a Dispensationalist.

Dispies claim this is the Dispensation of grace (time period), yet they want to see God's wrath poured out on people who differ from them, while they get all the grace for themselves.

Pam Baldwin was right, you're only interested in winning and being right, not learning the truth.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 03:44 PM
I'll take that as a concession to Tet's point.

I doubt it, Johnny and STP will defend Darby and MAD no matter what.

Let's look at the passage:

(Acts 2:45-46) They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

As we see, the believers sold property and possessions, and then we are told they broke bread in their homes.

However, that won't stop STP and Johnny from twisting the passage and claiming those believers sold their homes.

Claiming the Acts 2 believers sold their homes is just another myth invented by MADists.

Dispensationalism is a mess.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 03:48 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v710/sissypoo/SMILES/92635659c36dc8fc07406bfa87b179f9d38.gif


No.

You're wrong.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:21 PM
I doubt it, Johnny and STP will defend Darby and MAD no matter what.

Let's look at the passage:

(Acts 2:45-46) They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

As we see, the believers sold property and possessions, and then we are told they broke bread in their homes.

However, that won't stop STP and Johnny from twisting the passage and claiming those believers sold their homes.

Claiming the Acts 2 believers sold their homes is just another myth invented by MADists.

Dispensationalism is a mess.

As I predicted, that he would spam:

"will defend Darby and MAD no matter what....twisting the passage... myth invented by MADists.Dispensationalism is a mess."-Craigie the Clown


That's your best shot, punk, spammed for the 897th time, in 4 years?


Impressive, you laughing stock of TOL. Honk that big horn, and flap those Bozo shoes, Craigie.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:22 PM
Typical comment from a Dispensationalist.

Dispies claim this is the Dispensation of grace (time period), yet they want to see God's wrath poured out on people who differ from them, while they get all the grace for themselves.

Pam Baldwin was right, you're only interested in winning and being right, not learning the truth.

You claim that the Lord Jesus Christ is not a man, and that your pope Frankie, is infallible. You also assert that all are saved,and believe in "soul sleep."


Sell all you have, Craigie.


Don't you believe the bible/"Jesus", Craigie? You taught us that.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:23 PM
You're wrong.

Wow, Craigie!

And change that stupid name of yours, Craigie.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 04:27 PM
I doubt it, Johnny and STP will defend Darby and MAD no matter what.

Let's look at the passage:

(Acts 2:45-46) They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

As we see, the believers sold property and possessions, and then we are told they broke bread in their homes.

However, that won't stop STP and Johnny from twisting the passage and claiming those believers sold their homes.

Claiming the Acts 2 believers sold their homes is just another myth invented by MADists.

Dispensationalism is a mess.

Either that, or you are a blasphemous fool has no issue with twisting the Lord's Words once more that your Preterist garbage overthrow the Word of God.


Matthew 10:

7. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10. Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11. And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12. And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13. And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Matthew 19:

27. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28. And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Acts 2:

43. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44. And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45. And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47. Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 3:

2. And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3. Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4. And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5. And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6. Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

Acts 4:

32. And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things
common.
33. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35. And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
36. And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
37. Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.

Acts 5:

1. But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
2. And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
3. But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Let us know if you want more, you child of the Adversary - just spout more of your distortions, and anyone one of us will be more than glad to expose you for the fraud you are.

Tambora
July 29th, 2015, 04:27 PM
"I'll take that as a concession..."-Jeff

Well, Jeff, you are starting to bore us, with these cliches...


"Which was that it was to poor folks not yer buddy STP's false idea that they were Jerusalem saints who had sold everything."-Jeff

For the babes, sheep, not for Jeff, as he refuses to rightly divide the word of truth, refuses to recognize the divisions in the book, the most important being between the prophetic program, primarily dealing with the installment of the Lord Jesus Christ, by God the Father, as King of Kings, on earth, because of what He did 2000+ years ago, ruling with an iron hand, from Jerusalem, and the nation Israel, as His ministers, kingdom of priests, witnesses, "the head...not the tail...," who has an earthly inheritance, and unbelieving nations, on earth, and the fulfillment of the plan of "as the days of heaven upon the earth"(Deut. 11:21 KJV), the "gospel of the kingdom," vs. the mystery program, which focuses on the Lord Jesus Christ as "head of the body," and members of the body of Christ, as His ambassadors, stewards.......whose inheritance is in "heavenly places," and the gospel of the grace of God....

The command to sell all, leave all,... was given in the context of the impending time of "The Great Trib," the antichrist pursuing them, "Give us this day our daily bread..."(Mt. 6:11 KJV, Luke 11:3 KJV)....




Lord Jesus Christ commanded his disciples to sell all:

Command given: Mt. 19:21 KJV, Mk. 10:21 KJV, ;Luke 12:33 KJV, 18:22 KJV
Command obeyed: Mt. 19:27 KJV;Mk. 10:28 KJV;Luke 5:11KJV, 18:28 KJV, Acts 2:44-45 KJV,4:32-34 KJV
Penalty for disobedience-death-Acts 5:1-11 KJV

Do you have "...all things common...": Acts 2:44 KJV, 4:32-34 KJV , 3:6 KJV?

Well?


"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46 KJV


Have you sold all your possessions? This is one of the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ, in simple, 6th grade English, Jethro- in the context of the impendingf "Great Trib:"

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matthew 19:21 KJV

"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth." Luke 12:32-33 KJV

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22 KJV

Read it-"sell all that thou hast,"

Watch the spin..."He really did not mean that literally- He was merely ONLY attempting to teach/convey a spiritual truth", or, "that was before the cross and the resurrection"............No, he disciples did exactly what the Lord Jesus Christ said, both before and after the death, burial, and resurrection:

"before"

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?" Matthew 19:27 KJV

Read it-"we have forsaken all,"

"Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee." Mark 10:28 KJV

"Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee." Luke 18:28 KJV

Read it-"we have left all"

"after"

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2:44 KJV , Acts 2:45 KJV

Read it-"all things in common"

"Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk." Acts 3:6 KJV


That is why Peter said "Silver and gold have I none;"-he sold it all, per direct orders, from the Commander In Chief, the Lord Jesus Christ, the reason being in the context of the impending(at that time) "Great Trib." And thus, the directive to pray to God the Father, for His provisions, "Give us this day our daily bread," makes sense in the context of the "Great Trib," i.e., fleeing from the antichrist, and the remnant asking for deliverance, from the man of sin...


"but deliver us from evil:



Matthew 6 KJV
9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.



"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35 KJV

Read it-"all things in common"/They sold their homes, land.
Communism, folks. Anyone doing that today? I thought so. Watch the upcoming spin.....Watch.



Go, ahead, spinners.....Provide your analysis as to the merits of communism, i.e., "...all things common..." vs. "free enterprise"/"capitalism", per Acts 11:29 KJV ,"every man according to his ability...", " today. And we must "leave out "

"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel." 1 Timothy 5:8 KJV

....since, obviously Paul had not read the previous cited scriptures. Why Paul?!)

Penalty for disobedience:death-Acts 5:1-11 KJV, per Numbers 15:29-31 KJV :

"Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them. But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him."

I expect each and every believer to "Produce your cause......bring forth your strong reasons...", as to why you do obey these commands, or, conversely, why you "....do not do the things which I say..."(Luke 6:46 KJV). If you do obey these commands, I would at least respect your intellectual honesty, and your consistency.

As Elijah of old demanded, and I likewise demand: "...How long halt ye between two opinions?..." (1 Kings 18:21 KJV)

And I do not expect "....And the people answered him not a word...." (1 Kings 18:21 KJV)




"Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:..." Romans 14:8 KJV

That is, the Messiah, the Christ came to confirm the promises made to the Jews-not the body of Christ(which was not in existence at that time). The 12 were given the honor of being the vessels by which Israel would get back on track, to fulfill their calling as a "nation of priests"(Ex. 19:5-6 KJV; 1 Peter 2:5-9 KJV; Rev. 1:6 KJV, Rev. 5:10 KJV-the body of Christ is never referred to as a "priesthood", despite the RCO claims to the contrary; the only "priesthood" ever recognized by the LORD God on earth pertained/will pertain to the nation of Israel), ministering to them so as to show them how to make known the Messiah to the world-this particular mission had no reference/application to any so designated "Christian" "the" Church.

And thus, this is the "back drop" to what was happening in the "early Acts" period, as the apostles were given the privileged task, the "Great Commission",in the absence of their Messiah, to persuade, convict, convince Israel first, and then all nations(Gentiles). They were not only given the spiritual gifts, the "power from on high" of the Holy Spirit to accomplish this task, they were given the authority to "forgive"/"judge" "sins"/"offenses" in the absence of the Lord, and this authority was given and promised to them by this same Lord. And this authority as "judges" would continue right on into the promised,prophetic program's millennial kingdom. The apostles, as the "little flock"(Luke 12:32 KJV), had the kingdom given to them; and just as the Lord Jesus Christ forgave sins, as he had been given by the Father the power to execute judgment(John 5:22 KJV-judgment is delegated),they were given this authority as well. .

This prophetic program has been put on hold temporarily, with the raising up of the apostle Paul(who was not, nor ever will be, one of the12), and the introduction of the mystery program (a discussion of this here, in one thread, is not appropriate), and thus the spiritual gifts, including word of knowledge, raising the dead, tongues, prophecy........(all of which they also did) have ceased, and the "judging/remitting" of sins. However, when the prophetic program resumes, with its corresponding privileged status of Israel, and the Lord Jesus Christ returns to set up his 1000 year millennial reign on earth, from His throne, His "throne of glory", the apostles, the "little flock", will be in that kingdom, on earth, in their resurrected bodies, fulfilling their honored/privileged role as kingdom officials, with full designated power and authority for judgment.



And this explains why the command to "sell everything" in early Acts, if understood in the context of the prophetic program. The impending "Great Tribulation" grew near, and the advent of "...the days of heaven upon the earth..."(Deut. 11:21 KJV). Had the Jews accepted the apostles's testimony of the coming millennial kingdom, the Lord Jesus Christ would have returned after the Great Tribulation, established His millennial reign, and established universally the "socialism/communism" as depicted in early Acts. The 12 and "the little flock" of the Messiah's followers did begin to carry out their "Great Commission"-they did "the things" which their Master told them to do(Luke 6:46 KJV). They did sell all their belongings and distribute to the needy(Acts 2:44- 45 KJV; Acts 4:34-35 KJV). They did go forth without material provision/posessions, so that Peter could say, infallibly, "...Silver and gold have I none..."(Acts 3:6 KJV)-they sold it all. They spent hours in the temple and ceremonially observed law.(Acts 2:46 KJV, Acts 3:1 KJV, Acts 5:42 KJV, Acts 21:20 KJV). They required water baptism for the remission of sins, and miraculous signs, per Mark 16:17, did follow those that did believe(Acts 2:4 KJV, Acts 3:6-11 KJV, Acts 5:12-16 KJV; Hebrews 2:3-4 KJV...........). By reading Acts carefully, you can observe how carefully and meticulously they obeyed every command of their "Great Commission"-they fulfilled Luke 6:46 KJV. And this included selling all-it was not an "option", or a "suggestion", nor was it based on their "intent." Ananias and Sapphira sold a possession, and yet "kept back" a "part" of the land they sold. Their "intent" was judged with death.


Rightly divide the word of truth, or you will end up being a "Catholic," "Church of Christ-er," "7th Day Advent-ist,"................................=lost.



POTD=Post Of The Decade.SMACK!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why us real chicks dig John W.

Grosnick Marowbe
July 29th, 2015, 04:29 PM
I doubt it, Johnny and STP will defend Darby and MAD no matter what.

Let's look at the passage:

(Acts 2:45-46) They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts,

As we see, the believers sold property and possessions, and then we are told they broke bread in their homes.

However, that won't stop STP and Johnny from twisting the passage and claiming those believers sold their homes.

Claiming the Acts 2 believers sold their homes is just another myth invented by MADists.

Dispensationalism is a mess.

Your 'belief system" is one of the silliest I've ever heard. You believe that,
Christ returned in 70AD in the form of the Roman army. Does it get more
idiotic? I don't think so!

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 04:30 PM
Let us know if you want more, you child of the Adversary - just spout more of your distortions, and anyone one of us will be more than glad to expose you for the fraud you are.

Did Ananias and Sapphira sell the house they lived in, or did they sell a piece of land they owned?

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 04:31 PM
SMACK!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why us real chicks dig John W.

The only chicks who dig Johnny W, are chicks who follow John Nelson Darby.

Chicks who don't follow John Nelson Darby have zero interest in Johnny W.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 04:33 PM
You believe that,
Christ returned in 70AD in the form of the Roman army.

This is what you guys do.

STP tells the lie, and you guys perpetuate the lie.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:33 PM
SMACK!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why us real chicks dig John W.

If I wasn't so humble, bora of Tam, I'd join the communists/liberals, in supporting the "right" to marry yourself, as I'd marry me in a minute!

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 04:33 PM
SMACK!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why us real chicks dig John W.

I'd not seen his post - its way better the one I posted!

Lol, Johnny come lately, I am not - good job, as always; brother!!!

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:34 PM
This is what you guys do.

STP tells the lie, and you guys perpetuate the lie.

No, sweetie, you'ved admitted, on TOL, that you are the habitual liar of TOL.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 04:35 PM
Did Ananias and Sapphira sell the house they lived in, or did they sell a piece of land they owned?

You hopeless, gainsaying moron!

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 04:36 PM
(Acts 4:34) ... For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

Darby followers want people to believe that these early believers sold the homes they lived in, and that the whole "little flock" were a bunch of homeless people.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:37 PM
The only chicks who dig Johnny W, are chicks who follow John Nelson Darby.

Chicks who don't follow John Nelson Darby have zero interest in Johnny W.

Wow, Craigie! Spammed that Darby stumper, eh punk? That's it? like your wifer has no interest in you, due to your obsession? See how that works, you punk?

Tambora
July 29th, 2015, 04:38 PM
The only chicks who dig Johnny W, are chicks who follow John Nelson Darby.


I'm a chick.
I dig John W.
I don't follow Darby.

Another one bites the dust.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:38 PM
... Darby followers

Spam.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 04:38 PM
You hopeless, gainsaying moron!

After you make up your mind if you're really a Mid-Acts Dispy or not, try answering the question.

You won't, because it doesn't support the lie/myth you have to perpetuate to make MAD work.

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 04:39 PM
I don't follow Darby.

Once again, another Darby follower in denial.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:40 PM
This is what you guys do.

STP tells the lie, and you guys perpetuate the lie.

"Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
You believe that,
Christ returned in 70AD in the form of the Roman army."


Tettie's response:"STP tells the lie, and you guys perpetuate the lie"




Habitual liar...

"Tet: "The LORD Jesus Christ returned in the form of a Roman Army." "-STP

"Never said that."-Tet.



That is your MO/"ministry" on TOL-habitual lying.


"Tet is a preterist that believes Christ already returned in 70 AD via the Roman Army."-Tambora, on another TOL thread

"Correct, and thanks for making it clear that it was the Roman army that was His return."-stupid Craigie

"The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. That is what Jesus meant when He said He will return."-Gomer Tet.

Tambora
July 29th, 2015, 04:43 PM
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
I can look like a duck, swim like a duck, and quack like a duck; but I ain't a duck.


Another one bites the dust.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:43 PM
Once again, another Darby follower in denial.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Darby spam, and his oh so cute little "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck" cliche.


That's cute, sweetie.


TOL members laugh at you, clown.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 04:50 PM
(Acts 4:34) ... For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

Darby followers want people to believe that these early believers sold the homes they lived in, and that the whole "little flock" were a bunch of homeless people.

Moron - not only were they commanded and expected to do so, but they were expecting the Lord to return.

But with the Lord's unexpected interruption of His next stage in that as Israel headed towards His wrath - as Israel continued to persecute them in Israel's rebellion and subsequent fall - with God's interruption of said wrath, that He might reveal a Mystery He had planned to unfold, all that blessing proven merely a foretaste "of the world to come" after said wrath- Hebrews 2, you spiritually bankrupt moron - the result was that they ended up having to rely on the financial support of Paul's Mystery converts, Romans 15.

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 04:52 PM
I'm a chick.
I dig John W.
I don't follow Darby.

Another one bites the dust.

What's wrong with following John D?

:)

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:53 PM
(Acts 4:34) ... For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

Darby followers want people to believe that these early believers sold the homes they lived in, and that the whole "little flock" were a bunch of homeless people.

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22 KJV


Do it, Craigie.

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 04:55 PM
'Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22 KJV


Do it, Craigie.

Exactly, you Darbyist, lol

nonanomanon
July 29th, 2015, 04:59 PM
http://www.dzopa.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/10000-Year-Old-Statue-Contains-Coded-Message-About-Human-Origins.jpg
Mysterious 10,000 Year Old Statue. Article Link (http://www.dzopa.com/?p=11705).

I SAMUEL 18:7 And the women answered [one another] as they played, and said, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands.
REVELATION 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
REVELATION 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true [are] thy ways, thou King of saints.

10,000 years ago at the very end of the Age of Dinosaurs ........ God created a perfect being, a being that was created without the knowledge of corruption ........ God revealed the perfection of turning Blood into Water, in order to deliver the Hebrews out of Egypt, and in doing so he had sent his only son, Moses - the Perfection. Later on in order to deliver the Hebrews out of the hands of the Canaanites. God once again resurrected Moses, as a perfect being, knowing no corruption from its creation. God had concealed his identity to reveal the wickedness of the Hebrews, and called David to slay Moses. .............. God called Moses once to suffer corruption, but from his creation he has not know corruption, and once to demonstrate perfection in the Old Testament, a process of turning "Blood into Water", God would only illustrate at the end of time.

Thousands of people are euthanized routinely, for even a limited or implied level of force used again Moses, because it exceeds the Gospel's design to subject the body of a perfect being to corruption. ................... Moses reigns over the corruption for 12,000 Days being subject to corruption, but from the beginning this was not so ........... then Moses reigns over corruption as a perfect begin, and from the beginning of his creation, this was so.

(Clarence Larkin's Chart study was cut short, to conceal this conclusion of the gospel ... because we are dealing with a public threat, one that is deceased more frequently then you can imagine as a result of the level of force, and 95% of human life on earth will be terminated in about 30 days, in part because of the corruption the Gospel does not afford to perfect begins, you have caused a perfect being. ............. we'll have a 10 hour walk tomorrow to break their spirit to kill themselves, since it was not my original intention to reveal this level of truth) (As a perfect being the Antichrist can make the viable claim that once is he deceased before the 3 Days of Darkness, all human life is terminated and the gospel's program is completed .............. even if you fall short, millions dead will simply be your rewards, there was talk of a tsunami recently)

john w
July 29th, 2015, 04:59 PM
(Acts 4:34) ... For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

Darby followers want people to believe that these early believers sold the homes they lived in, and that the whole "little flock" were a bunch of homeless people.

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2:44 KJV , Acts 2:45 KJV

Do it, Craigie. Send us your 401(k) $'s. Oh yes, you don't work.

Don't you believe the bible, Craigie? We learned that from you, clown.

john w
July 29th, 2015, 05:14 PM
(Acts 4:34) ... For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales

Darby followers want people to believe that these early believers sold the homes they lived in, and that the whole "little flock" were a bunch of homeless people.

Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee." Mark 10:28 KJV

"Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee." Luke 18:28 KJV

Do it.


Don't you believe the bible, Craigie?

john w
July 29th, 2015, 05:21 PM
Exactly, you Darbyist, lol

You Jack Lord-ist!

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 05:23 PM
Here John is telling those to whom he was addressing that when the Lord Jesus appears that they will be like Him:


"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 Jn.3:2).

There was never a teaching in regard to kingdom saints which spoke of living saints being made like the Lord Jesus at His appearing so this has to refer to the rapture.

And it will only be those in the Body of Christ who will be raptured. Therefore, the saints who were being addressed by John were members of the Body of Christ.

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 05:46 PM
There is only one appearing of the Lord Jesus which can be described as "imminent" and that is the time when the living saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

The president of the Berean Bible Society is Paul Sadler and he is also a Neo-MADist. Here is what he says about the rapture:


"According to Paul's gospel the Rapture is 'imminent,' that is, it could take place at any moment. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, "The Present Obsession With the Anti-Christ," The Berean Searchlight, June, 1999, 7).

The teaching that the rapture is "imminent" is supported by the following passage:


"For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body...The Lord is at hand (eggus)" (Phil.3:20-21;4:5).

The Greek word eggus means "of times imminent" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Those to whom the epistle of James were addressed were also expecting an "imminent" appearance of the Lord Jesus:


"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near. Don't grumble against one another, brothers and sisters, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door! " (Jas 5:8-9).

The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

It is obvious that there can only be one appearing of the Lord which can be described as being "imminent" then it cannot be denied that those to whom the epistle of James were addressed were waiting for the rapture.

One of the chief spokesmen within the Neo-MAD moment is Paul Sadler and he says the following:


"The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).

Therefore, there can be no doubt whatsoever that those who originally received the book of Hebrews were in the Body of Christ.

Nick M
July 29th, 2015, 06:04 PM
Go study, Jerry.

Right. Paul explicitly states that they needed to be reconciled to Christ. He begged them.

Grosnick Marowbe
July 29th, 2015, 06:25 PM
This is what you guys do.

STP tells the lie, and you guys perpetuate the lie.

Prove it's not the truth then? Darby awaits you.

Grosnick Marowbe
July 29th, 2015, 06:26 PM
By the way TeT, GM thinks you're a "LOON!"

Danoh
July 29th, 2015, 06:30 PM
You Jack Lord-ist!

So long as the Kano is the one from the new series, lol

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 09:20 PM
Moron - not only were they commanded and expected to do so, but they were expecting the Lord to return.

They didn't sell the houses they lived in.

(Acts 8:3) But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

If they sold the houses they lived in, then why later did Saul go "house to house" to find these people?

Later, Saul stayed in the house of Judas, who was a believer.

(Acts 9:11) The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.

Why didn't Judas sell his house on Straight Street?

Still later, Peter stayed at the house of Simon of Joppa, who was a believer. Simon's house was by the sea:

(Acts 10:6) He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Why didn't Simon of Joppa sell his house by the sea?

Still later, after Peter escaped from jail, Peter stayed at Mary the mother of John's house:

(Acts 12:12) When this had dawned on him, he went to the house of Mary the mother of John, also called Mark, where many people had gathered and were praying.

Why didn't Mary the mother of John sell her house?

I could go on and on. Lydia's house is found in Acts 16:15, Jason's house is in 17:15, Aquila and Priscilla's house is in 18:1-3, Titus has a house in 18:11, Philip has a house in 21:8, and Mnason has a house in 21:16.

Also, MAD claims Paul was the first member in the BOC. Even though Paul tells us Aquilla and Priscilla were in Christ before him, MAD claims Aquilla and Priscilla were not in the BOC.

However, Aquilla and Priscilla have a house:

(Rom 16:5) Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Why didn't Aquilla and Priscilla sell their house?

Your Dispensationalism is a mess!

tetelestai
July 29th, 2015, 09:35 PM
"The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ."

More Dispensational looniness.

Now you guys have to have a "secret resurrection" before the "first resurrection" in order for Darby's rapture to work out.

A secret parenthetical dispensation with a secret resurrection.......Dispensationalism is really a mess !!!!

Lon
July 29th, 2015, 09:58 PM
There are some people on this forum who deny that the doctrine found in the Hebrew Epistles are for those in the Body of Christ.

But were not all the believers who received those epistles in the Body? Let us determine to whom 1 Corinthians was addressed. Paul wrote:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).
All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so Paul's words in this epistle applies to them. And here is what he told every Israelite believer in every place:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).
There can be no doubt whatsoever that all those who called on the name of the Lord Jesus in every place must include all of the believers among the Israelites so they were told that they were baptized into the Body of Christ.

Perhaps there is at least one person among those who deny that the Hebrew epistles contain doctrine for the Body of Christ will address these two verses from 1 Corinthians?
First Corinthians says it is addressed to all Christians. Just because mail comes to 'my' house doesn't mean it is 'all' to me. Most of it is. "Occupant" means me. "Lon" means me. My daughter 'can' open 'occupant' but really shouldn't open "Lon" (by example, not a fast rule in this house).

I know this makes sense, and I think it applies to Hebrews:
First, the name: "Hebrews" - clear enough. Corinthians were likely all gentile converts.

Second, Hebrews 1: 1 (http://biblehub.com/hebrews/1-1.htm)In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways - "ancestors" that God spoke through were definitely Hebrews as were nearly all "prophets."

Imho, we are further away from 'occupant' and a bit more specific. So much so, I'd probably put the letter back in the mail with the flag up. This letter is addressed to "Hebrews." I'm not one of those.

Because the letter is in my Bible, some Hebrews definitely shared with the church. We have this book to look upon but we have to discern "if/when" anything specifically addressed to Hebrews isn't mistakenly taken by us gentiles. I think too, it is yet an important book for Jews who become Christians today, and so needs to be in our Bibles for their sake too.

I hope/pray this is of some encouragement/blessing. I 'think' this post of mine is observable and applicable and appreciable by all across board from most denominations but double-check me (with all sincerity). I have no problem being corrected concerning my observations.

-Lon

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 10:03 PM
A secret parenthetical dispensation with a secret resurrection.......Dispensationalism is really a mess !!!!

Of course you have been shown this verse many times and all you do is to pretend that there is no such thing as a "dispensation of the mystery":


"and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things" (Eph.3:9).

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 10:21 PM
They didn't sell the houses they lived in.

(Acts 8:3) But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

If they sold the houses they lived in, then why later did Saul go "house to house" to find these people?

Later, Saul stayed in the house of Judas, who was a believer.

(Acts 9:11) The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.

Why didn't Judas sell his house on Straight Street?

Still later, Peter stayed at the house of Simon of Joppa, who was a believer. Simon's house was by the sea:

(Acts 10:6) He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Why didn't Simon of Joppa sell his house by the sea?

Still later, after Peter escaped from jail, Peter stayed at Mary the mother of John's house:

(Acts 12:12) When this had dawned on him, he went to the house of Mary the mother of John, also called Mark, where many people had gathered and were praying.

Why didn't Mary the mother of John sell her house?

I could go on and on. Lydia's house is found in Acts 16:15, Jason's house is in 17:15, Aquila and Priscilla's house is in 18:1-3, Titus has a house in 18:11, Philip has a house in 21:8, and Mnason has a house in 21:16.

Also, MAD claims Paul was the first member in the BOC. Even though Paul tells us Aquilla and Priscilla were in Christ before him, MAD claims Aquilla and Priscilla were not in the BOC.

However, Aquilla and Priscilla have a house:

(Rom 16:5) Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Why didn't Aquilla and Priscilla sell their house?

Your Dispensationalism is a mess!

That's right.

And John W. forgets whose boat Jesus and the boys were sailin' around in.

Then he spins a lie about Ananias and his wife keepin' back part of the land.

It was the cash from the sale they held back, not the land.

He still refuses to answer where Paul got the notion Jesus said it is more blessed to give than receive.

What's really sad is, he instead posted a bunch of verses with no understanding behind them.

And unsurprisingly, one of the ole deceived hens started cooing.

Reminds me of one a them seminars that scam folks outta their money. :noway:

Jerry Shugart
July 29th, 2015, 10:22 PM
Imho, we are further away from 'occupant' and a bit more specific. So much so, I'd probably put the letter back in the mail with the flag up. This letter is addressed to "Hebrews." I'm not one of those.

You are not Timothy either so you must believe that the doctrine found in 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy is not for you.


We have this book to look upon but we have to discern "if/when" anything specifically addressed to Hebrews isn't mistakenly taken by us gentiles. I think too, it is yet an important book for Jews who become Christians today, and so needs to be in our Bibles for their sake too.

It is only those who are in the Body of Christ who dwell in the very presence of God because only those in the Body have been raised up and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).


"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col.3:1).

Those to whom the book of Hebrews were addressed also had access to the heavenly sphere:


"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh" (Heb.10:19-20).


"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb.4:16).


Corinthians were likely all gentile converts.

1 Corinthians was not just addressed to the church at Corinth but also to everyone in every place who call on the name of the Lord Jesus:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

So this letter is addressed to all who believe in the Lord Jesus in every place. And here is what Paul tells all of those believers:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Therefore, all of the epistles from Romans to Jude contain doctrine which is for those in the Body of Christ.

1Mind1Spirit
July 29th, 2015, 10:41 PM
Of course you have been shown this verse many times and all you do is to pretend that there is no such thing as a "dispensation of the mystery":


"and to make all men see what is the dispensation of the mystery which for ages hath been hid in God who created all things" (Eph.3:9).

Scripture twister.



Ephesians 3:9 KJV


9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Lon
July 29th, 2015, 10:42 PM
You are not Timothy either so you must believe that the doctrine found in 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy is not for you.
It is written to a pastor, so yes, I believe some of it gets very specific. Wouldn't I be presumptuous to drink a little wine for my stomach? Don't you read that too, understanding it was for Timothy? If so, don't you read it exactly the same? You 'can' argue with me, Jerry. I'm just not sure that you need to think you 'have' to do so.



It is only those who are in the Body of Christ who dwell in the very presence of God because only those in the Body have been raised up and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God" (Col.3:1).
Those to whom the book of Hebrews were addressed also had access to the heavenly sphere:

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh" (Heb.10:19-20).

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb.4:16).
You and I are 'both' American but that doesn't mean you are French. That means anytime "American" is mentioned you can pay attention, but when "French" is mentioned, you probably shouldn't (in this case "Hebrew"). I already said I understand your disagreement. I don't want to go too far down this particular road other than just explaining what I already said. I'm fine with leaving it there.


1 Corinthians was not just addressed to the church at Corinth but also to everyone in every place who call on the name of the Lord Jesus:

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).
So this letter is addressed to all who believe in the Lord Jesus in every place. And here is what Paul tells all of those believers:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are w
e all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).
Therefore, all of the epistles from Romans to Jude contain doctrine which is for those in the Body of Christ. I think you 'can' say this concerning the uni-direction, like saying we are all Americans, but it doesn't necessarily follow that we all are "French" because of that or that what concerns the French concerns you too, at least after that same manner. However, I do agree with your statement just not exactly the same way. Again, I don't drink wine for my stomach, that was directly given to Timothy. And, I don't 'believe' I have Hebrew forefathers.

I don't believe the warning in Hebrews 6:4 applies to gentiles and see the application as indirect. As gentiles however, we can fall into a similar trap of rejecting Christ's sacrifice by 'trying to work/earn' salvation.

-Lon

nonanomanon
July 29th, 2015, 11:27 PM
It is only those who are in the Body of Christ who dwell in the very presence of God because only those in the Body have been raised up and made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved); And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).

Satan as a whole body does not rise until the Gospel is completed. In the mean time, there are people being saved and they are counted with "Star Wormwood" sure. In some respects the Holy Spirit is simply an arm of the Holy Ghost, but they are not the same, and their conclusions are not the same, that is heaven or the new universe.

NEHEMIAH 8:3 And he read therein before the street that [was] before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people [were attentive] unto the book of the law.
NEHEMIAH 8:4 And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, [and] Meshullam.
NEHEMIAH 8:5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people;) and when he opened it, all the people stood up:

Having your blood turned into water is a description of salvation. "Shem" specifically is a name that can mean "passover". So when the "Book of the Law" is opened, "the people will be resurrected". .................. The book of revelation talks about a book of the lamb being opened that is heavenly salvation, but it also talks about a "little book being opened", or a lesser book, that would have to be a description of having your "Blood turned into Water".

HEBREWS 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
HEBREWS 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
HEBREWS 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Which of the Angels did God tell sit at my right hand until I defeat your enemies? The Answer is Satan. God tells Satan in the Book of Revelation, that the devil is driven from the women, that has warred with the saints in attempting to keep the commandments of Jesus. ................ We have a second reference to Satan ............. remember "Jesus is the Ministering Spirit in his Gospel, he is the voice of the Saints", Jesus is an individual .............. Satan on the other hand is a multitude, and Hebrews 1:14 says, all of these many people are "ministering spirits", that are going to obtain the salvation (the "vesture" or new clothing).

The book of Hebrews really begins to make declarations about Satan being caught up with God and the Saints. For this reason, "Benjamin and Joseph" are often paired together, "Joseph being the Blessing". God puts them together until the inheritances of Satan are articulated in the New Universe. By all means, the Jewish people claim in the book of Hebrews that they are the first portions of Satan that are caught up with God as the Bride of Jesus, and then God pulls the rest of Satan into heaven, to complete the judgment, at the end of time.

(There are descriptions in the New Testament ... "no man", "son of perdition", as well as the Old Testament, "sodom", and "amalek" ........ these are simply other names for the devil, the portion of souls/people that have no satisfaction as inheritors in the covenant. Revelation simply calls these the "devil". .............. in this instance the tone is singular because "having no value is singular" ......... the gospel sees them all the same. ........ Similarly the "Body of Benjamin" or heavenly salvation is singular ............... where as satan is plural because the Holy Spirit deals with a multitude, the "Body of Benjamin" is not seen, but diversities in the judgment ............... the statement "Body of Christ" as the Gospel's Program, includes Satan and the Saints, at least momentarily. Because the judgment is completed when the Tribes are all unified and given to Star Wormwood, as a parable)

john w
July 30th, 2015, 12:18 AM
More Dispensational looniness.

Now you guys have to have a "secret resurrection" before the "first resurrection" in order for Darby's rapture to work out.

A secret parenthetical dispensation with a secret resurrection.......Dispensationalism is really a mess !!!!

Like this satanic, Preterist "looniness," punk, which you lied about? The Roman army, sweetie, is "the second time," the second coming?:

"Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe
You believe that,
Christ returned in 70AD in the form of the Roman army."


Tettie's response:"STP tells the lie, and you guys perpetuate the lie"




Habitual liar...

Vs.

"Tet: "The LORD Jesus Christ returned in the form of a Roman Army." "-STP

"Never said that."-Tet.



That is your MO/"ministry" on TOL-habitual lying.


"Tet is a preterist that believes Christ already returned in 70 AD via the Roman Army."-Tambora, on another TOL thread

"Correct, and thanks for making it clear that it was the Roman army that was His return."-stupid Craigie

"The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. That is what Jesus meant when He said He will return."-Gomer Tet.


Clown. Satanic punk.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 12:20 AM
That's right.

And John W. forgets whose boat Jesus and the boys were sailin' around in.

Then he spins a lie about Ananias and his wife keepin' back part of the land.

It was the cash from the sale they held back, not the land.

He still refuses to answer where Paul got the notion Jesus said it is more blessed to give than receive.

What's really sad is, he instead posted a bunch of verses with no understanding behind them.

And unsurprisingly, one of the ole deceived hens started cooing.

Reminds me of one a them seminars that scam folks outta their money. :noway:

My post, with scripture, after scripture, vs. the above spam, "opinion, Jeff? That's your best shot?

Have a seat, junkie. You're not in my class.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 12:22 AM
They didn't sell the houses they lived in.

(Acts 8:3) But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

If they sold the houses they lived in, then why later did Saul go "house to house" to find these people?

Later, Saul stayed in the house of Judas, who was a believer.

(Acts 9:11) The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.

Why didn't Judas sell his house on Straight Street?

Still later, Peter stayed at the house of Simon of Joppa, who was a believer. Simon's house was by the sea:

(Acts 10:6) He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Why didn't Simon of Joppa sell his house by the sea?

Still later, after Peter escaped from jail, Peter stayed at Mary the mother of John's house:

(Acts 12:12) When this had dawned on him, he went to the house of Mary the mother of John, also called Mark, where many people had gathered and were praying.

Why didn't Mary the mother of John sell her house?

I could go on and on. Lydia's house is found in Acts 16:15, Jason's house is in 17:15, Aquila and Priscilla's house is in 18:1-3, Titus has a house in 18:11, Philip has a house in 21:8, and Mnason has a house in 21:16.

Also, MAD claims Paul was the first member in the BOC. Even though Paul tells us Aquilla and Priscilla were in Christ before him, MAD claims Aquilla and Priscilla were not in the BOC.

However, Aquilla and Priscilla have a house:

(Rom 16:5) Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Why didn't Aquilla and Priscilla sell their house?

Your Dispensationalism is a mess!

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22 KJV


Do it, Craigie.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 12:23 AM
That's right.

And John W. forgets whose boat Jesus and the boys were sailin' around in.

Then he spins a lie about Ananias and his wife keepin' back part of the land.

It was the cash from the sale they held back, not the land.

He still refuses to answer where Paul got the notion Jesus said it is more blessed to give than receive.

What's really sad is, he instead posted a bunch of verses with no understanding behind them.

And unsurprisingly, one of the ole deceived hens started cooing.

Reminds me of one a them seminars that scam folks outta their money. :noway:

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22 KJV


Do it, Jeff.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 12:24 AM
That's right.

And John W. forgets whose boat Jesus and the boys were sailin' around in.

Then he spins a lie about Ananias and his wife keepin' back part of the land.

It was the cash from the sale they held back, not the land.

He still refuses to answer where Paul got the notion Jesus said it is more blessed to give than receive.

What's really sad is, he instead posted a bunch of verses with no understanding behind them.

And unsurprisingly, one of the ole deceived hens started cooing.

Reminds me of one a them seminars that scam folks outta their money. :noway:

"Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee." Mark 10:28 KJV

"Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee." Luke 18:28 KJV

Do it, Jeff.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 12:27 AM
They didn't sell the houses they lived in.

(Acts 8:3) But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

If they sold the houses they lived in, then why later did Saul go "house to house" to find these people?

Later, Saul stayed in the house of Judas, who was a believer.

(Acts 9:11) The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.

Why didn't Judas sell his house on Straight Street?

Still later, Peter stayed at the house of Simon of Joppa, who was a believer. Simon's house was by the sea:

(Acts 10:6) He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Why didn't Simon of Joppa sell his house by the sea?

Still later, after Peter escaped from jail, Peter stayed at Mary the mother of John's house:

(Acts 12:12) When this had dawned on him, he went to the house of Mary the mother of John, also called Mark, where many people had gathered and were praying.

Why didn't Mary the mother of John sell her house?

I could go on and on. Lydia's house is found in Acts 16:15, Jason's house is in 17:15, Aquila and Priscilla's house is in 18:1-3, Titus has a house in 18:11, Philip has a house in 21:8, and Mnason has a house in 21:16.

Also, MAD claims Paul was the first member in the BOC. Even though Paul tells us Aquilla and Priscilla were in Christ before him, MAD claims Aquilla and Priscilla were not in the BOC.

However, Aquilla and Priscilla have a house:

(Rom 16:5) Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Why didn't Aquilla and Priscilla sell their house?

Your Dispensationalism is a mess!

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2:44 KJV , Acts 2:45 KJV

Do it, Craigie. Send us your 401(k) $'s. Oh yes, you don't work.

Don't you believe the bible, Craigie? We learned that from you, clown.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 12:28 AM
That's right.

And John W. forgets whose boat Jesus and the boys were sailin' around in.

Then he spins a lie about Ananias and his wife keepin' back part of the land.

It was the cash from the sale they held back, not the land.

He still refuses to answer where Paul got the notion Jesus said it is more blessed to give than receive.

What's really sad is, he instead posted a bunch of verses with no understanding behind them.

And unsurprisingly, one of the ole deceived hens started cooing.

Reminds me of one a them seminars that scam folks outta their money. :noway:

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2:44 KJV , Acts 2:45 KJV

Do it, Jeff. And sell all your pot, and give it to others, as needed.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 12:30 AM
They didn't sell the houses they lived in.

(Acts 8:3) But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

If they sold the houses they lived in, then why later did Saul go "house to house" to find these people?

Later, Saul stayed in the house of Judas, who was a believer.

(Acts 9:11) The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying.

Why didn't Judas sell his house on Straight Street?

Still later, Peter stayed at the house of Simon of Joppa, who was a believer. Simon's house was by the sea:

(Acts 10:6) He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Why didn't Simon of Joppa sell his house by the sea?

Still later, after Peter escaped from jail, Peter stayed at Mary the mother of John's house:

(Acts 12:12) When this had dawned on him, he went to the house of Mary the mother of John, also called Mark, where many people had gathered and were praying.

Why didn't Mary the mother of John sell her house?

I could go on and on. Lydia's house is found in Acts 16:15, Jason's house is in 17:15, Aquila and Priscilla's house is in 18:1-3, Titus has a house in 18:11, Philip has a house in 21:8, and Mnason has a house in 21:16.

Also, MAD claims Paul was the first member in the BOC. Even though Paul tells us Aquilla and Priscilla were in Christ before him, MAD claims Aquilla and Priscilla were not in the BOC.

However, Aquilla and Priscilla have a house:

(Rom 16:5) Greet also the church that meets at their house.

Why didn't Aquilla and Priscilla sell their house?

Your Dispensationalism is a mess!

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35 KJV


Do it, Craigie.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 12:31 AM
That's right.

And John W. forgets whose boat Jesus and the boys were sailin' around in.

Then he spins a lie about Ananias and his wife keepin' back part of the land.

It was the cash from the sale they held back, not the land.

He still refuses to answer where Paul got the notion Jesus said it is more blessed to give than receive.

What's really sad is, he instead posted a bunch of verses with no understanding behind them.

And unsurprisingly, one of the ole deceived hens started cooing.

Reminds me of one a them seminars that scam folks outta their money. :noway:

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35 KJV

Do it, Jeff. Communism, Spicoli.


I thought so, fraud.

1Mind1Spirit
July 30th, 2015, 01:00 AM
"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35 KJV

Do it, Jeff. Communism, Spicoli.


I thought so, fraud.

Yer the fraud, bud.

Answer the question.

All yer doin' is runnin' scared when I backed you into a corner.

Runnin' through all yer baseless rhetoric saying nothing and lookin' for support from yer cronies.

Got a little to close for comfort there, hunh big boy?;)

SaulToPaul
July 30th, 2015, 06:55 AM
That is your MO/"ministry" on TOL-habitual lying.




He has a mean ole dispie death knell "compelsion", to be accomplished by any means necessary.

SaulToPaul
July 30th, 2015, 06:58 AM
Tettie's response:"STP tells the lie, and you guys perpetuate the lie"






Yes, we all know Tet believes the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ was a Roman army destroying Jerusalem.

Why is he playing games about it?

Jerry Shugart
July 30th, 2015, 08:12 AM
I don't believe the warning in Hebrews 6:4 applies to gentiles and see the application as indirect. As gentiles however, we can fall into a similar trap of rejecting Christ's sacrifice by 'trying to work/earn' salvation.

I think that you are missing the point of this thread. So let me start by asking you a couple of questions. Can you see that 1 Corinthians is addressed to all believers in every place?:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

Matthew Henry wrote:


"In conjunction with the church at Corinth, he directs the epistle 'to all that in every place call on the name of Christ Jesus our Lord, both theirs and ours' " (Matthew Henry, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).

Do you agree that the doctrine found in 1 Corinthians applies to every believer on the earth?

If your answer is "no" then explain why you do not believe that Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 1:2 do not include every true believer in the world. If your answer is "yes" then do you agree that every believer on the earth are members of the Body of Christ, especially since these words from the same epistle are directed to all the believers on the earth?:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Again, if your answer is "yes" then can you understand that all the epistles, beginning at Romans and continuing through Jude, are all addressed to members of the Body of Christ?

Danoh
July 30th, 2015, 08:55 AM
I think that you are missing the point of this thread. So let me start by asking you a couple of questions. Can you see that 1 Corinthians is addressed to all believers in every place?:


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

Matthew Henry wrote:


"In conjunction with the church at Corinth, he directs the epistle 'to all that in every place call on the name of Christ Jesus our Lord, both theirs and ours' " (Matthew Henry, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).

Do you agree that the doctrine found in 1 Corinthians applies to every believer on the earth?

If your answer is "no" then explain why you do not believe that Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 1:2 do not include every true believer in the world. If your answer is "yes" then do you agree that every believer on the earth are members of the Body of Christ, especially since these words from the same epistle are directed to all the believers on the earth?:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

Again, if your answer is "yes" then can you understand that all the epistles, beginning at Romans and continuing through Jude, are all addressed to members of the Body of Christ?

Lon, not that doing so will appease his incessant need to have others assert that he is right - after all, that is the way of an inner issue; of neurosis - it is never appeased by outer circumstances; it ever needs to seek out "just one more" to bait into endless battle with itself.

Not that doing so will appease him, but perhaps you could simply agree with him; shut him up...

Well... at least until his next post... asking you to lay out exactly why you agree that he alone is right.

Clearly, the man has an issue the Cross failed to solve for.

Ya screwed up God - one issue got away - Jerry Shugart!

Perhaps Jerry is the ghost of that thorn in Paul's side, lol

A theme song for your malady, Jerry - just for you...


"Sympathy For The Devil"

Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for a long, long year
Stole many a man's soul and faith
And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me
Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
Cause I'm in need of some restraint
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
Tell me baby, what's my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what's my name
I tell you one time, you're to blame
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
What's me name
Tell me, baby, what's my name
Tell me, sweetie, what's my name
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah

Daniel1611
July 30th, 2015, 09:54 AM
This idea that the things you like are for you and the things you don't are for the past is the worst exegesis possible. It's cherry picking that uses some pretentious theological jargon to try to make it credible, and is not Biblical Christianity.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 10:07 AM
Yer the fraud, bud.

Answer the question.

All yer doin' is runnin' scared when I backed you into a corner.

Runnin' through all yer baseless rhetoric saying nothing and lookin' for support from yer cronies.

Got a little to close for comfort there, hunh big boy?;)

"All yer doin' is runnin' scared when I backed you into a corner."-Jeff

Wow, Jeff! You stunned me with another cliche! It took you just how long to "Google" that? The TOL audience is mesmerized!


"yer...yer..."-Jeff

You think that's so cute, don't you "partneer?"


"hunh big boy"-Jeff

Excellent "modern" "English there, junkie. "Hagin'out/chillaxin'" at that dating site, eh junkie?

No, you're a fraud, Jeff, as I explained in the chapters, the relevant passages, citing them, and picked you apart, leaving you bloodied, on the mat, left resorting to sound bytes, blubberings, ....Even you know it. Do the below:



"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." Luke 18:22 KJV





"Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee." Mark 10:28 KJV

"Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee." Luke 18:28 KJV

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need." Acts 2:44 KJV , Acts 2:45 KJV

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:32-35 KJV

I thought so, Jeff, as you're not in my league, scripturally, and would not know the difference, between the book of Joel, and Billy Joel, as your "posts"/scribble are void of scripture, just opinions, about opinions, about opinions of opinions of opinions, and emotional rants, mutterings, grunts, snorts...

Weighty, Jeff. "Oprah" taught you well.


"Answer the question."-Jeff

I'll give you a shot at the champ, Jeff. Show your biblical acumen, "prowness," and provide to me, and the TOL audience, the chapter, and verse, that requires that I answer any question, especially from a lost drone, such as yourself. Chapter, verse, Jeff. Put down your old reliable "TV Guide," and "Papa John's Pizza" menu, survey the book, and provide me the chapter(s), verse(s). Unpack it for me.

Watta ya say, Jeff? Ya wanna shot at the title?(You taught us how to talk like that-we learned that from you).


You won't.

Have a seat, Jeff. You're way over your head.

SaulToPaul
July 30th, 2015, 10:13 AM
Watta ya say, Jeff? Ya wanna shot at the title?(You taught us how to talk like that-we learned that from you).




Reminds me of when Big Barn offered Jeff Pruitt a shot at the title.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 10:19 AM
This idea that the things you like are for you and the things you don't are for the past is the worst exegesis possible. It's cherry picking that uses some pretentious theological jargon to try to make it credible, and is not Biblical Christianity.

That's slick....real slick.....Deception. The old reliable "cherry picking" baffler, that leaves thousands of TOL dispensationalist proponents "speechless."

Next up?:Bible chopper...Bible splitter....Don't you believe the bible?

And the beat goes On , ladi dadi dee ...


Listen, Daniel 's not my brother, an honest man/woman, admits that not all of the biblical addresses, commands, are directed toward each individual, w/o exception, and that everyone, w/o exception, "cherry picks," w/o exception.

However, you've not claimed that you are an honest man, on this subject, so we dismiss you, along with all the other droids, who deceitfully, dishonestly, claim that all of the bible is about them, specifically, written to them, for their obedience, is their "marching orders," filed under the "Deuteronomy/Leviticus" groupie file.

Dismissed, Colonel Klink.

john w
July 30th, 2015, 10:26 AM
Yes, we all know Tet believes the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ was a Roman army destroying Jerusalem.

Why is he playing games about it?

We hurt his fragile feelings a spell ago, Mayor, and now he has a "Dispie Compelsion Obsession"-DCO. He's in denial.

SaulToPaul
July 30th, 2015, 10:31 AM
We hurt his fragile feelings a spell ago, Mayor, and now he has a "Dispie Compelsion Obsession"-DCO. He's in denial.

Maybe we should offer poor Tet an olive branch, perhaps we can lead him out of Hammering Hank's cult?

john w
July 30th, 2015, 10:31 AM
Reminds me of when Big Barn offered Jeff Pruitt a shot at the title.

And Jeff "1Mind1Spicolli" will probably clear his voice, and give us his "tuff" guy grunts/snorts, along the lines of, "Well, yer gonna get a whippin', boy....Saddle up..."

john w
July 30th, 2015, 10:34 AM
Maybe we should offer poor Tet an olive branch, perhaps we can lead him out of Hammering Hank's cult?

Well, Mayor, I was an olive branch salesman for 25 years....

What was the subject, again?

You're in denial, that real estate is more profitable, than the vacuum cleaner market.

SaulToPaul
July 30th, 2015, 10:38 AM
Well, Mayor, I was an olive branch salesman for 25 years....

What was the subject, again?

You're in denial, that real estate is more profitable, than the vacuum cleaner market.

Reckon you could get Tet a job working for you in the stock market game? His part-time job as a Darby blogger isn't really helping pay the bills.