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Robert Pate
July 25th, 2015, 05:03 AM
Paul wrote, "But I certify you brethern that the Gospel that was preached of me is NOT after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ" Galatians 1:11, 12.

The Gospel that Paul received from Jesus is the same Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Paul also refered to this Gospel as the Gospel that is... "The power of God unto salvation to every one that believes" Romans 1:16. Believes what? To everyone that believes the Gospel. Faith and belief in the Gospel is the entrance into heaven and eternal life.

It is Satans objective to hide this Gospel or to pevert the Gospel so that people cannot hear and believe it, 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4. He does this through religions, such as Calvinism and Catholicism and other religions.

WHAT IS THE GOSPEL?

The Gospel is the work that Jesus Christ has done in our name and on our behalf that defeated sin, death and the devil, Colossians 2:15 and reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19. Can you believe that, or have you been blinded by the devil? If you cannot believe that Jesus is the savior of the world then you have probably been blinded by the devil, 2 Corinthians 4:3.

The key to understanding the Gospel is to believe that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14. Calvinist are not able to believe this and Catholics have a problem with it. If Jesus did not defeat sin, death and the devil, there is no way that we can be saved.

God does not see things the way that we see them. God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and God's new humanity, Romans 5:16, 17, 18, 19. also 2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creation". God sees us in his Son Jesus Christ.

"And having made PEACE through the blood of his cross, by him (Jesus) to reconcile ALL THINGS unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things on the earth or things in heaven" Colossians 1:20.

God is at peace with the world because he sees the world in his Son Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed and his Son Jesus Christ is the "King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Can't believe that? The reason that you can't believe that is because you have been blinded by the devil.

Because Jesus is victorious over ALL THINGS it is now possible for all, anyone, everyone, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13.

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 06:07 AM
To be truly like Paul, it needs to have much more emphasis on justification from sins, Rom 3:21-26. That is the manner or realm in which sin, death and the devil have been defeated; they are still prowling around in other senses.

In the NT, the Gospel is also the exciting news that things promised in the ancient past are finally fulfilled. In a way, this sets up the sermon of Acts 13, because you have a synagogue leader, removed geographically from Israel, where the news is pretty bleak, and he asks Paul, who has been there more recently than himself, if there is any encouragement! What answers this? The Gospel that all that was promised to the fathers is fulfilled in the resurrection of Christ, because that resurrection proves that we can be justified from our sins in God's sight.

To be authentic, the message Paul preached was not and can't be seen against a background of issues that would come 1500 years later...

rainee
July 25th, 2015, 06:22 AM
Dear Robert Pate,
I came here to refute something about Judas being, ever being, an Apostle... But I see if I post that I should first ask you two questions...
If The Lord saved the world - is the world now saved? They that act wickedly are saved?
If The Lord saved the world - how is the evil one still spoken of as a prince of the power of the air here?

Ok third question if salvation is all there is to what The Lord and Paul wanted done why is there still conflict between good and evil? Why is there even still evil on existence if I understand your OP?

rainee
July 25th, 2015, 06:25 AM
Hi Interplanner, I guess some of those questions apply to your post as well? I can't really tell...
But I have one more question for you if you are MAD or not, why does Paul fail to speak so much on Grace as he does on actions when writing Timothy?

In almost every time he uses the word "grace" to Timothy it is either in the opening of a letter which encourages actions or the closing of a letter that encourages actions, yes?

Robert Pate
July 25th, 2015, 07:18 AM
To be truly like Paul, it needs to have much more emphasis on justification from sins, Rom 3:21-26. That is the manner or realm in which sin, death and the devil have been defeated; they are still prowling around in other senses.

In the NT, the Gospel is also the exciting news that things promised in the ancient past are finally fulfilled. In a way, this sets up the sermon of Acts 13, because you have a synagogue leader, removed geographically from Israel, where the news is pretty bleak, and he asks Paul, who has been there more recently than himself, if there is any encouragement! What answers this? The Gospel that all that was promised to the fathers is fulfilled in the resurrection of Christ, because that resurrection proves that we can be justified from our sins in God's sight.

To be authentic, the message Paul preached was not and can't be seen against a background of issues that would come 1500 years later...


Good post and good point.

All that God promised to Israel was fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed, 1 Corinthians 1:30. We now stand complete in him, Colossians 2:10.

Robert Pate
July 25th, 2015, 07:27 AM
Dear Robert Pate,
I came here to refute something about Judas being, ever being, an Apostle... But I see if I post that I should first ask you two questions...
If The Lord saved the world - is the world now saved? They that act wickedly are saved?
If The Lord saved the world - how is the evil one still spoken of as a prince of the power of the air here?

Ok third question if salvation is all there is to what The Lord and Paul wanted done why is there still conflict between good and evil? Why is there even still evil on existence if I understand your OP?


God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ.

When Jesus returns he will return as the "King of Kings and the Lord of Lords". All things continue as they are because this is the age of faith and grace. Only those that have faith in Christ and his Gospel will be saved. In spite of all of the sin in the world people are still being saved. Christ church is still growing. In the last days things are going to be really bad because Satan knows that his days are numbered.

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 07:30 AM
Dear Robert Pate,
I came here to refute something about Judas being, ever being, an Apostle... But I see if I post that I should first ask you two questions...
If The Lord saved the world - is the world now saved? They that act wickedly are saved?
If The Lord saved the world - how is the evil one still spoken of as a prince of the power of the air here?

Ok third question if salvation is all there is to what The Lord and Paul wanted done why is there still conflict between good and evil? Why is there even still evil on existence if I understand your OP?


re the world saved?
The sense of "saved" in the NT is what matters. Sin is both debt and a force. Jesus work on the cross deals with the debt, but only changes the force of sin to the degree that the believer grasps. The cross did not end evil in the world in general.

re the prince of the power of the air
Again, the NT means that his power to accuse for past sin is vanquished because we are justified from our past sins in Christ. However, he still affects people, deludes them, binds them in strongholds, about many other things.

When Rom 1 calls the Gospel the power of God to salvation (it means salvation in the widest, whole-person sense) it means that it first solves the debt problem (justification), and then out of gratitude about that the believer makes progress on the power or impact of day-to-day sins (personal growth). The believer is strengthened each day because the debt of sin from that day is covered, even if he fails again. This builds love for God, because the love of God is seen as greater each day. "The older you are, the bigger I seem"--Aslan to Lucy in PRINCE CASPIAN.

Satan despises the Cross because there is no undoing it, but also because it has this marvelous effect on the believer, the effect of increasing love and grace. Instead Satan wishes for ignorance about the Cross and justification, and for believers to be consequently harsh on themselves and on each other and miserable and dispirited.

re general evil in the world
There is evil in the sense of natural disasters. I don't see that changing in this life. But there is also general societal evil, and we can impact that. We as believers are actually making quite an impact on the abortion industry right now. In history, the church has benefited and led society in several ways--the end of slavery, progress for women, progress in medicine and science. Look at any fatalist society and all of these things are in fairly bad shape by comparison.

Look at the amazing US Constitution. And yet the signators said "there must be at least some reverence and godliness among the population for this to work; otherwise, it might actually damage the country without them." So we can and must have an impact on society. Every generation must learn why freedom matters and how it is fought for. I'm afraid that with the agreement with Iran as Obama wants it, that fight for this generation is just around the corner.

Robert Pate
July 25th, 2015, 07:32 AM
Hi Interplanner, I guess some of those questions apply to your post as well? I can't really tell...
But I have one more question for you if you are MAD or not, why does Paul fail to speak so much on Grace as he does on actions when writing Timothy?

In almost every time he uses the word "grace" to Timothy it is either in the opening of a letter which encourages actions or the closing of a letter that encourages actions, yes?


The Gospel calls for a responce. If one hears and really believes the Gospel it can turn ones life upside down. At least it did mine.

If there is no responce after hearing the Gospel, that is a responce, Hebrews 4:2, 3.

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 07:45 AM
Hi Interplanner, I guess some of those questions apply to your post as well? I can't really tell...
But I have one more question for you if you are MAD or not, why does Paul fail to speak so much on Grace as he does on actions when writing Timothy?

In almost every time he uses the word "grace" to Timothy it is either in the opening of a letter which encourages actions or the closing of a letter that encourages actions, yes?


I guess he believed he had covered that topic. You might however, notice the similarity of the letter to Titus. Many of the same administrative instructions are copied, but then ch 3 breaks into a complete treatment of the coming of the grace of God in Christ. So in a sense, it doesn't matter if Paul puts it first, last or in the middle. It is always the thing that generates a Christian's improvement and devotion. The Christian life is not to be done by someone being harsh on themselves or others, forcing their will out of nothing to do certain acts that appear Christian.

There is a pastor in CA, his last name is Milton, and he was 5 years in the ministry (after 4 years of training) when he was on the freeway and heard a message on Rom 5 about God loving us at our worst, not best. He suddenly realized that all his Christian work was him thinking of himself as the best and deserving the best and making others around him earn their way to his favor by them being the best. He stopped and confessed it all and made huge changes and began living by grace. I forget the name of the book.

Robert Pate
July 25th, 2015, 09:28 AM
re the world saved?
The sense of "saved" in the NT is what matters. Sin is both debt and a force. Jesus work on the cross deals with the debt, but only changes the force of sin to the degree that the believer grasps. The cross did not end evil in the world in general.

re the prince of the power of the air
Again, the NT means that his power to accuse for past sin is vanquished because we are justified from our past sins in Christ. However, he still affects people, deludes them, binds them in strongholds, about many other things.

When Rom 1 calls the Gospel the power of God to salvation (it means salvation in the widest, whole-person sense) it means that it first solves the debt problem (justification), and then out of gratitude about that the believer makes progress on the power or impact of day-to-day sins (personal growth). The believer is strengthened each day because the debt of sin from that day is covered, even if he fails again. This builds love for God, because the love of God is seen as greater each day. "The older you are, the bigger I seem"--Aslan to Lucy in PRINCE CASPIAN.

Satan despises the Cross because there is no undoing it, but also because it has this marvelous effect on the believer, the effect of increasing love and grace. Instead Satan wishes for ignorance about the Cross and justification, and for believers to be consequently harsh on themselves and on each other and miserable and dispirited.

re general evil in the world
There is evil in the sense of natural disasters. I don't see that changing in this life. But there is also general societal evil, and we can impact that. We as believers are actually making quite an impact on the abortion industry right now. In history, the church has benefited and led society in several ways--the end of slavery, progress for women, progress in medicine and science. Look at any fatalist society and all of these things are in fairly bad shape by comparison.

Look at the amazing US Constitution. And yet the signators said "there must be at least some reverence and godliness among the population for this to work; otherwise, it might actually damage the country without them." So we can and must have an impact on society. Every generation must learn why freedom matters and how it is fought for. I'm afraid that with the agreement with Iran as Obama wants it, that fight for this generation is just around the corner.

Excellent post!

You have a lot of understanding.

The reason that this country is what it is, is because many of our fore fathers were Christians.

rainee
July 25th, 2015, 09:40 AM
Hmmm, Robert before you praise this noob too freely you best look to his eschatology.

He may be more like some of my friends than yours, yes?

Bb in a minute

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 09:44 AM
Let's fellowship if a brother holds the Gospel well, and clear, even if we don't get their eschatology.

Danoh
July 25th, 2015, 10:28 AM
Let's fellowship if a brother holds the Gospel well, and clear, even if we don't get their eschatology.

You're one of the very few of the Partial Preterists I have read on forums who remotely - let alone; repeatedly - relates that Christ died for our sins and was raised again for our justification - not of our works.

It is why I refer to you as brother from time to time, though I most strongly disagree with your eschatology - especially with your sense of Acts 13 and its impact on it.

As a result, when I found you had joined TOL, I rejoiced to have you over here, though I knew we would still have our issues.

And I rejoiced for you in the Lord even more so when you related you had been booted off that other forum due to your strong "Fundamental" stance on that one issue.

Anyway, back to fighting over eschatology; I love you in the Lord, brother.

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 11:10 AM
Invite some of the others from there!

Interplanner
July 25th, 2015, 11:16 AM
It was a difficult realization how that ended--that a liberal wing could have that much control, but then something happened close to home/family that was similar. And the person was saying homosexuality is 'perfectly compatible with Christian thinking.' !!! There's always a bit of shock and then there is the guilting that goes on at you for not being tolerant, for 'ruining a relationship' etc.; they are very clever emotionally.

rainee
July 25th, 2015, 11:35 AM
God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ.

When Jesus returns he will return as the "King of Kings and the Lord of Lords". All things continue as they are because this is the age of faith and grace. Only those that have faith in Christ and his Gospel will be saved. In spite of all of the sin in the world people are still being saved. Christ church is still growing. In the last days things are going to be really bad because Satan knows that his days are numbered.

Dear Robert,
I think I agree totally with you!
Thank you for your patience

Robert Pate
July 25th, 2015, 01:50 PM
Let's fellowship if a brother holds the Gospel well, and clear, even if we don't get their eschatology.

I have heard of churches splitting over where to place the pulpit. I think that we need to bury some of our petty differences. The Gospel and justification by faith are the main things.