PDA

View Full Version : Sabbatarianism



Christian Liberty
July 22nd, 2015, 08:04 PM
OK, so I agree with almost everything in the Westminster Confession, but I don't really see sabbatarianism. I see in Hebrews 4 that we follow the sabbath today by resting in Christ from striving to salvation. I see in Romans 14:5 that we don't have to acknowledge specific days anymore. And even if that were only talking about ceremonial sabbaths and feasts (not the weekly sabbath), the stone tablet does say "seventh day" (saturday.) I understand that Christians worshipped together on Sunday, but would someone who was brought up in Judaism take that to mean that was the sabbath? I have no doubt that some Jews continued to observe Saturday as was their tradition. Paul seems utterly unconcerned about this. And while we see nine of the ten commandments relisted in the NT as sins in various ways (the Bible is clear that murderers, thieves, the sexually immoral, idolaters, etc. will not see heaven) we don't see any mention of sabbath-breaking. In the light of the fact that we don't see it but we DO see two different references to particular days not mattering as much anymore, I wonder if we're only supposed to observe the 4th commandment spiritually now even while we observe the other nine commandments as unchangable moral rules for all eternity.

As of now I don't accept strict sunday sabbatarianism for the same reason that I do accept paedobaptism. Just as there is no scripture explaining that children should be refused admission into the covenant community, so there is no scripture changing the date of the sabbath or explaining to Jewish converts that the sabbath must be changed. There is, however, an admonintion not to judge based on sabbaths.

BTW: I am MOSTLY posting this thread to discuss with Reformed or at least generally Calvinistic people. Dispies can post if they want, but I am not really seriously considering their position. As far as I am concerned the moral commands of the OT continue to apply unless the NT changes them. It seems to me like the observance of the sabbath was actually changed in the NT. I'm not really considering looking at this from an NCT or dispensational angle.

I'm especially curious what Nang and AMR think of this thread.

Jacob
July 22nd, 2015, 10:32 PM
OK, so I agree with almost everything in the Westminster Confession, but I don't really see sabbatarianism. I see in Hebrews 4 that we follow the sabbath today by resting in Christ from striving to salvation. I see in Romans 14:5 that we don't have to acknowledge specific days anymore. And even if that were only talking about ceremonial sabbaths and feasts (not the weekly sabbath), the stone tablet does say "seventh day" (saturday.) I understand that Christians worshipped together on Sunday, but would someone who was brought up in Judaism take that to mean that was the sabbath? I have no doubt that some Jews continued to observe Saturday as was their tradition. Paul seems utterly unconcerned about this. And while we see nine of the ten commandments relisted in the NT as sins in various ways (the Bible is clear that murderers, thieves, the sexually immoral, idolaters, etc. will not see heaven) we don't see any mention of sabbath-breaking. In the light of the fact that we don't see it but we DO see two different references to particular days not mattering as much anymore, I wonder if we're only supposed to observe the 4th commandment spiritually now even while we observe the other nine commandments as unchangable moral rules for all eternity.

As of now I don't accept strict sunday sabbatarianism for the same reason that I do accept paedobaptism. Just as there is no scripture explaining that children should be refused admission into the covenant community, so there is no scripture changing the date of the sabbath or explaining to Jewish converts that the sabbath must be changed. There is, however, an admonintion not to judge based on sabbaths.

BTW: I am MOSTLY posting this thread to discuss with Reformed or at least generally Calvinistic people. Dispies can post if they want, but I am not really seriously considering their position. As far as I am concerned the moral commands of the OT continue to apply unless the NT changes them. It seems to me like the observance of the sabbath was actually changed in the NT. I'm not really considering looking at this from an NCT or dispensational angle.

I'm especially curious what Nang and AMR think of this thread.Do we know what God's Law is for the nation of Israel? Perhaps we do not determine it but was it already determined and is that what we are reading even after the coming of the new covenant 2000 years ago? That is, what is the change of law associated with the change of priesthood spoken of in the book of Hebrews? Do we know what the implications of the gospel are upon the Law of God if any? We are not to judge the Law. Is it true that those who obey the gospel are not bound to the Law? What is the gospel and what is the Law? The Law is. Or the Law was. But the Law is always the Law. The gospel does not change the Law. Is there Law/law in the new covenant? If so, what is it? What indications are there for it? If not, why not? And Christians do obey God's commands so do they or should they obey all of them even those that are found before the coming of the new covenant? Are laws from the Old Testament / old covenant applicable in the new covenant or are they not?

For those who observe the Sabbath it is no problem that they do. I personally observe the Sabbath. Though I am circumcised I live outside of the land of Israel. Am I of the commonwealth of Israel as a Christian believer and if so what does that mean in the new covenant (what is the commonwealth... what does it mean and when and where is it?)?

Are Christians not to observe the Law or are Christians to observe the Law? Are unbelievers to observe the Law or are unbelievers not to observe the Law? Can an unbeliever observe the Law? Christians are not under the Law but under grace.