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Psalmist
July 22nd, 2015, 05:46 PM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazurus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

keypurr
July 22nd, 2015, 06:42 PM
I firmly believe in soul sleep friend. Christ will come to awake us when the time is right. In death there is no awareness of anything. A million years can pass and we will not know it. Our thoughts perish. But you and I know that the Son of the most high will return to bring us home.

This world is not our home, we are just passing through friend.

glorydaz
July 22nd, 2015, 06:58 PM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazurus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

Not me...to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord. The OT saints had to wait until Christ rose from the dead.

Puppet
July 22nd, 2015, 07:04 PM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazurus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

They awaken when they enter Gods past, present and future all happening at once. They never miss a beat. They're more awake after death of the body. The devil wants the JW and the SDA to annihilate themselves and not look for anything.

jamie
July 22nd, 2015, 07:46 PM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?


Jesus did.


These things He said and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up."

Then His disciples said, "Lord, if he sleeps he will get well."

However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead." (John 11:11-14 NKJV)

steko
July 22nd, 2015, 09:13 PM
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

glorydaz
July 22nd, 2015, 09:21 PM
Jesus did.


These things He said and after that He said to them, "Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up."

Then His disciples said, "Lord, if he sleeps he will get well."

However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead." (John 11:11-14 NKJV)

That's not soul sleep. That is physical death....a person looks like he's sleeping when he's dead.

tetelestai
July 22nd, 2015, 09:24 PM
[INDENT][COLOR="Navy"]Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

"Soul Sleep" was invented by E.W. Bullinger. No one taught it before him.

There are some followers of Bullinger here on TOL, and they believe in soul sleep:

1) SaulToPaul

2) heir

3) John W

Bradley D
July 22nd, 2015, 09:34 PM
If the soul sleeps where is Enoch (Gen. 5:24), where is Elijah 2 Kings 2:11, where is Moses (Mt. 17:3), where is the crucified criminal (Luke 23:40-43).

Puppet
July 22nd, 2015, 09:36 PM
"Soul Sleep" was invented by E.W. Bullinger. No one taught it before him.

There are some followers of Bullinger here on TOL, and they believe in soul sleep:

1) SaulToPaul

2) heir

3) John W

Who is bullinger?

SaulToPaul
July 23rd, 2015, 10:10 AM
"Soul Sleep" was invented by E.W. Bullinger. No one taught it before him.

There are some followers of Bullinger here on TOL, and they believe in soul sleep:

1) SaulToPaul

2) heir

3) John W

Heir and I do not believe the "soul" sleeps. Souls are for people who dwell on the earth. But we do believe that the moment we die, it's as if we immediately awake at the Rapture. But it's fine with me if you want to say we believe in soul sleep.

But, you will never find a post to prove that saint john w the great believes any such thing as soul sleep.

You shouldn't make claims that he does.

john w
July 23rd, 2015, 02:38 PM
"Soul Sleep" was invented by E.W. Bullinger. No one taught it before him.

There are some followers of Bullinger here on TOL, and they believe in soul sleep:

1) SaulToPaul

2) heir

3) John W

"Heir and I do not believe the "soul" sleeps. Souls are for people who dwell on the earth. But we do believe that the moment we die, it's as if we immediately awake at the Rapture. But it's fine with me if you want to say we believe in soul sleep.

But, you will never find a post to prove that saint john w the great believes any such thing as soul sleep.

You shouldn't make claims that he does."-STP



Yes, Craigie. Show me where I ever asserted that I believe in "soul sleep."


Show me-the post. Show TOL.


I will make it easier, on you. Show me any post, where I took any position on it.

Let's go, habitual liar.

john w
July 23rd, 2015, 02:42 PM
"Soul Sleep" was invented by E.W. Bullinger. No one taught it before him.

There are some followers of Bullinger here on TOL, and they believe in soul sleep:

1) SaulToPaul

2) heir

3) John W

"No one taught it before him."-Preterist punk


And? So what?

Now is the time, punk, for you to explain the relevance of the above, which you spam, on every thread. I've asked you for years, punk, to tell us the relevance.


I will ask you again:

Why is "No one taught it before him" relevant.?

Unpack it for us-all of TOL.



You won't.

Con artist, engager in sophistry.

Psalmist
July 23rd, 2015, 02:57 PM
Solomon says...


Ecclesiastes 12:6-7
6 Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed,
Or the golden bowl is broken,
Or the pitcher shattered at the fountain,
Or the wheel broken at the well.
7 Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

glorydaz
July 23rd, 2015, 03:02 PM
Heir and I do not believe the "soul" sleeps. Souls are for people who dwell on the earth. But we do believe that the moment we die, it's as if we immediately awake at the Rapture. But it's fine with me if you want to say we believe in soul sleep.

But, you will never find a post to prove that saint john w the great believes any such thing as soul sleep.

You shouldn't make claims that he does.

I think that about covers it. If something is "as if" then it's what is whether it is one thing or another. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord....could very well be "as if" it were so. I'll just be glad to wake up with the Lord...unless I'm still here when the rapture occurs and that will be cool, too. ;)

oatmeal
July 23rd, 2015, 04:34 PM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazurus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

Dead means dead.

Psalmist
July 23rd, 2015, 05:04 PM
Dead means dead.
I was a funeral director, I know what is, what it looks, etc.

oatmeal
July 23rd, 2015, 06:01 PM
I was a funeral director, I know what is, what it looks, etc.

Yes, I am sure you do.

I am sure you made doubly sure of that.

God's Truth
July 23rd, 2015, 08:14 PM
You knooow I am a believer in soul sleep, but im not 100% convinced. Mainly over things like what glorydaz said with them sleeping until christ came. So that makes sense. Either way, i dont think it effects the outcome of someones faith for believing on either case. this is one of those things that it would be nice if and if bleh haha

It does matter what someone believes about it.

The soul sleep believers have a doctrine of death and they go against many scriptures.

Angel4Truth
July 23rd, 2015, 10:45 PM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazurus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

Luke 23:42And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

They are conscious.

glorydaz
July 23rd, 2015, 10:54 PM
If the soul sleeps where is Enoch (Gen. 5:24), where is Elijah 2 Kings 2:11, where is Moses (Mt. 17:3), where is the crucified criminal (Luke 23:40-43).


Luke 23:42And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

They are conscious.

All good points.

keypurr
July 23rd, 2015, 10:59 PM
What is the state of the Dead?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.

All will be raised

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

keypurr
July 23rd, 2015, 11:09 PM
Luke 23:42And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

They are conscious.

Consider that Jesus was not in Paradise that day. Three days later he said that he had not gone to his father YET.

The comma is misplaced.
I think it should read........ today, you will be with me in paradise.



43 Y'shua said to him, "Truly I say to you today: You will be with me in paradise" AENT

This is how the ARAMAIC ENGLISH New Testament translates it.
This is the language that Jesus used. Not the Greek.

Puppet
July 24th, 2015, 06:13 AM
Consider that Jesus was not in Paradise that day. Three days later he said that he had not gone to his father YET.

The comma is misplaced.
I think it should read........ today, you will be with me in paradise.



43 Y'shua said to him, "Truly I say to you today: You will be with me in paradise" AENT

This is how the ARAMAIC ENGLISH New Testament translates it.
This is the language that Jesus used. Not the Greek.

Today, I shall reply: Oh no ! Not the comma again. Who speaks like that? Lame excuse

SaulToPaul
July 24th, 2015, 11:19 AM
I think that about covers it. If something is "as if" then it's what is whether it is one thing or another. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord....could very well be "as if" it were so. I'll just be glad to wake up with the Lord...unless I'm still here when the rapture occurs and that will be cool, too. ;)

Yes, indeed. To me, it's a debate over nothing.

Whether or not we sleep for hundreds or thousands of years in death, we are "immediately" present with the LORD.

SaulToPaul
July 24th, 2015, 11:20 AM
Let's go, habitual liar.

I'm glad that you agree with me, and Big Barn, on the topic of falsifying.

fzappa13
July 24th, 2015, 11:31 AM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazurus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

1 Sam 28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.

8And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee. 9And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die? 10And Saul sware to her by the LORD, saying, As the LORD liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing. 11Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?

fzappa13
July 24th, 2015, 11:32 AM
Not me...to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord. The OT saints had to wait until Christ rose from the dead.

If I hear this verse misquoted one more time I may commit a crime ...

WonderfulLordJesus
July 24th, 2015, 11:47 AM
Question: "What does the Bible say about soul sleep?"

Answer: “Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).

Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.

Present-day defenders of soul sleep include the Seventh Day Adventist church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, and others. (That is, cults.)

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/soul-sleep.html#ixzz3gpeRfgH8

WonderfulLordJesus
July 24th, 2015, 11:50 AM
Not me...to be absent with the body is to be present with the Lord.

You always have to wonder what part of that people don't understand.

Angel4Truth
July 24th, 2015, 12:27 PM
Luke 23:42And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

They are conscious.


Consider that Jesus was not in Paradise that day. Three days later he said that he had not gone to his father YET.

The comma is misplaced.
I think it should read........ today, you will be with me in paradise.



43 Y'shua said to him, "Truly I say to you today: You will be with me in paradise" AENT

This is how the ARAMAIC ENGLISH New Testament translates it.
This is the language that Jesus used. Not the Greek.

Completely false, Jesus was in paradise that day and the comma is in the right place . I also think you dont know what paradise was.

This explains the "comma" issue quite well:


Answer: It is common knowledge that punctuation, including commas, was introduced into the biblical manuscripts centuries after the books were completed. Therefore, commas are not authoritative.

However, the placement of commas can affect our understanding of a text. For example, in Luke 23, one of the thieves crucified next to Jesus says, “‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.’ Jesus answered him, ‘I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise’” (verses 42-43). Commas help us keep the original phrasing intact. Was Jesus saying, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me . . .” (meaning that “today” is when the thief would be in paradise)? Or was He saying, “I tell you the truth today, you will be with me . . .” (meaning that “today” is when Jesus was speaking”)?

First, we note that every major Bible translation inserts the comma before the word today. Thus, the KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV, ESV, and RSV all agree that Jesus was speaking of the time that the thief would enter paradise. The thief would be in paradise with Jesus on that very same day.

Also, Jesus prefaced His response with the phrase, “I tell you the truth” (“Verily I say unto thee” in the KJV). Many scholars have noticed that Jesus uses this as a prefix phrase when He is about to say something that should be listened to with care. Seventy-six times in the New Testament, Jesus uses the phrase. Interestingly, no one but Jesus ever says it. When the Lord says “I tell you the truth,” He is affirming that what He is about to say is worthy of special attention. It was Jesus’ way of saying, “Listen up! What I’m about to say is very important and should be listened to carefully.” We’re too used to hearing the phrase to appreciate the astonishing authority it expresses and the often solemn nature of the announcement that follows. In every one of the 76 times Christ uses this introductory phrase, He simply says it and then makes a startling statement.

It would be strange indeed if, in this one instance, Jesus departed from His normal way of making His signature statement by adding the word today to it. In every case where this sort of introductory phrase is used, Greek scholars add a punctuation break after the phrase in question and before the rest of the statement. So, the translators have it right. The comma in Luke 23:43 belongs where they put it.

This brings us to another question. If Jesus was buried and rose after three days and then many days later ascended to heaven, how could He have been in paradise with the thief?

After Christ died, it was His body that was buried in the tomb. However, Jesus’ spirit/soul was not in the tomb. Jesus’ spirit was in the Father’s presence (Luke 23:46; Ephesians 4:8). See more information in our article here.

As Jesus was hanging on the cross, paying our penalty for sin, He made a promise to a dying, repentant thief. By the grace of God and the power of Christ, that promise was kept. The thief’s sins were washed away, and his death that day was his entrance to paradise.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/today-paradise.html#ixzz3gpopXskh

Hawkins
July 24th, 2015, 01:02 PM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazurus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

Concepts:

1. Tasting death
Death is a process for a human soul descending to Hades/sheol. Everyone dies this way with only a few exception (such as Enoch and Elijah). Jesus died this way too.

2. Hades and Paradise
If you are with God, you will be put to a sleep till the resurrection and the Final Judgment come. You can be said to be in paradise this way.

If you are not with God (i.e., the unbelievers generally speaking), you will remain awaken in Hades waiting in the darkness for the Judgment Day to come. You can be said to be in hell this way.

3. Third Heaven and Paradise
Where did Enoch and Elijah go then? They are in yet another place called Abraham's Bosom. It is the paradise where God's chosen saints will remain awaken to continue to bare witnessing for God. Paul somehow was brought here.


Lazarus didn't descend naturally to Hades, he was CARRIED by the angels to Abraham's Bosom. Normal humans on the other hand don't need any angels to carry them to Hades. When they die they descend there naturally.


Moses died a natural death, however he's brought to Abraham's Bosom later on. Samuel also died a natural death, he was put to sleep first, then being brought up. Most likely Samuel was also brought to the Third Heaven after meeting with Saul.

Nick M
July 24th, 2015, 02:39 PM
You shouldn't make claims that he does.

Deception is needed to get others to follow him.

keypurr
July 24th, 2015, 03:09 PM
Completely false, Jesus was in paradise that day and the comma is in the right place . I also think you dont know what paradise was.

This explains the "comma" issue quite well:



Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/today-paradise.html#ixzz3gpopXskh


Where do you believe Paradise is?

steko
July 24th, 2015, 03:36 PM
well considering we arent ressurected at the first ressurection until mid tribulation...

The tribulation(seventieth week of Dan 9) concerns Israel, not the BOC.
BOC believers are resurrected pre-trib, since they are not Israel.

BOC believers are awaiting the resurrection of the body which is not presently saved.

The 'I' is presently saved and goes to be in the Lord's presence at the physical death of the body.
Man is a mind/body dichotomous being. 'I' am not my body.My physical body is a dwelling/tent/tabernacle for the 'I' which is me.

Tambora
July 24th, 2015, 04:04 PM
The tribulation(seventieth week of Dan 9) concerns Israel, not the BOC.
BOC believers are resurrected pre-trib, since they are not Israel.

BOC believers are awaiting the resurrection of the body which is not presently saved.

The 'I' is presently saved and goes to be in the Lord's presence at the physical death of the body.
Man is a mind/body dichotomous being. 'I' am not my body.My physical body is a dwelling/tent/tabernacle for the 'I' which is me.You're so smart.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v710/sissypoo/SMILES/1sm390teach.gif

steko
July 24th, 2015, 04:11 PM
You're so smart.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v710/sissypoo/SMILES/1sm390teach.gif

No....you are!

Tambora
July 24th, 2015, 04:14 PM
No....you are!No .... YOU!!!

I've learned a lot from you Steko. You are a real gem when it comes to study buddies!

steko
July 24th, 2015, 04:17 PM
No .... YOU!!!

I've learned a lot from you Steko. You are a real gem when it comes to study buddies!

I've learned more from you than you have from me! :IA:

Puppet
July 24th, 2015, 06:36 PM
As soon as you die, you're always watching yourself transform. As you transform into timeless formless event, you're more awake as if you never fell alseep and you see everything past,present, future yesterday, and tommorrow all at once in a instant fsdter than lighting flash. Soul sleep is terrible invention of men and will rob you of your hope. Flee from such denominations that will make your soul sick.

Lazy afternoon
July 24th, 2015, 06:55 PM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

The dead are unconscious and brain dead.




What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazurus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

The parable does not speak of the raising of the dead of the general population for the last judgment, but of those who withheld the goodness of the covenant greedily from those who were outside of it.

A particularly wicked thing to do.

Punishment after judgment, before annihilation of the wicked, is scriptural.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

LA

tetelestai
July 24th, 2015, 07:53 PM
But we do believe that the moment we die, it's as if we immediately awake at the Rapture.

Um.....that's what soul sleep is.

tetelestai
July 24th, 2015, 07:55 PM
Whether or not we sleep for hundreds or thousands of years in death, we are "immediately" present with the LORD.

When the Apostle Paul died over 1,900 years ago, was he "immediately" present with the Lord, or is that still a future event?

tetelestai
July 24th, 2015, 07:58 PM
Bullinger invented "soul sleep" because Hyper-Dispensationalism doesn't work without it.

Hyper-Dispensationalism can't have "body believers" going to the same place as "kingdom believers" after physical death.

"Soul Sleep" is yet another reason why the two gospel/two people theory that Hyper-Dispensationalism perpetuates, is a load of rubbish.

Zeke
July 24th, 2015, 08:49 PM
The tribulation(seventieth week of Dan 9) concerns Israel, not the BOC.
BOC believers are resurrected pre-trib, since they are not Israel.

BOC believers are awaiting the resurrection of the body which is not presently saved.

The 'I' is presently saved and goes to be in the Lord's presence at the physical death of the body.
Man is a mind/body dichotomous being. 'I' am not my body.My physical body is a dwelling/tent/tabernacle for the 'I' which is me.

Yet the fact that the kingdom in conflict in Dan/Rev being referred to is a spiritual one within us, via Jesus's remarks in Luke 17:20-21 and like Jacob, a type of inward wrestling that we all go through, and the same story as Romans seven, along with Serpent and Eve Cain and Able, etc.....and it is all about the two natures being born of flesh, a temple, and temporal host of the Divine seed/treasure hidden in the field, that lies dormant in flesh until it is kissed within by the Divine love from above.

The only divide in scripture is the same yesterday,today, and future tense as stated in 2Cor 3:6, The theatrics brought to life by exoteric focused religions perverting and presenting dramatized, allegory and symbology (Galatians 4:24-26) has literal history is a path well traveled by most generations taking the same jaunt around in circles produced by the same morphing dogmas retooled for the next generation.

Ask Mr. Religion
July 24th, 2015, 11:31 PM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazurus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

I do not find warrant in Scripture for psychopannychia (soul sleep).

Concerning all who die prior to Christ's return, the Bible teaches that at the moment of death the human spirit (soul) departs its body to one of two possible destinations: Heaven or Hades (Luke 16:19-31; Phil. 1:19-26; James 2:26; Rev. 6:9, 20:4). Those who reach Heaven do so based not upon their own good works, but upon the work of Christ in their behalf—His righteous life and atoning death—and upon their God-given faith in Him (Mark 10: 45; John 1:12, 3:16; Rom. 3:21; Eph. 2:8-10).

The saints in Heaven (Abraham’s bosom)—fully aware of their surroundings and delighted by its manifold blessings per their walk of faith (Heb. 12:22-24)—eagerly await their Lord's return at the end of the age, when Our Lord will consummate their redemption by raising them from the dead with new, glorified, resurrection bodies just as He now possesses, and by creating for them a glorious new world in which they will forever live together with Him (Luke 20:27-40, John 5:28, 1 Cor. 15, Phil. 3:20-21; 2 Pet. 3:13).

Those who enter Hades (Sheol in Hebrew) do so based upon their own evil works, especially upon the evil work of suppressing the truth that God made known to them through nature, the Law, and the Gospel, the Gospel being God's only provision for the forgiveness of sin and the acquisition of eternal life (John 3:19,36: John 5:29; Acts 13:46, Rom. 2:8; 2 Thess. 1:8; Rev. 20:12).

In Hades the lost are in the torments of eternal punishment, deprived of God's every life-giving blessing, conscious of God's abiding wrath, and subject to the positive pains of divine retribution all according to their particular sins. Also, to the extent that they may be aware of it, the lost are tormented in this intermediate state of prison by anticipation of the Resurrection and the Day of Judgment, when Christ will send them—body and soul—into Gehenna (Hell), the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt. 8:29, Mt. 10:28, 25: 41; Mark 9:48, Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thess. 1:9; Rev. 20:14) where they will remain forever afterwards suffering unending punishment.

AMR

Psalmist
July 26th, 2015, 05:12 AM
Anybody here believe in "Soul sleep" when a person dies?

Are they conscience or brain dead.

What about the great gulf that separates the paradise of the redeemed from hell of the lost. The rich man and Lazarus do not seem to be soul sleeping.

No, I do not believe in soul sleep.

Zeke
July 26th, 2015, 07:11 AM
Yet the term when one dies is concerning the soul/divine seed when it is imprisoned in flesh, a divine metaphor about the state/ignorance of the conscience not physical. The inner kingdom Luke 17:20-21 Galatians 4:24 deals with two aspect of conscience development, not two historic individuals. The reason Jesus said let the dead bury the dead was in regards to this state of ones conscience while living in this temporal kingdom/matrix until Galatians 4:26 is experienced within and the prodigal who was dead/sleep is now reborn within Luke 15:35.

Psalmist
July 30th, 2015, 10:14 AM
I do not find warrant in Scripture for psychopannychia (soul sleep).

Concerning all who die prior to Christ's return, the Bible teaches that at the moment of death the human spirit (soul) departs its body to one of two possible destinations: Heaven or Hades (Luke 16:19-31; Phil. 1:19-26; James 2:26; Rev. 6:9, 20:4). Those who reach Heaven do so based not upon their own good works, but upon the work of Christ in their behalf—His righteous life and atoning death—and upon their God-given faith in Him (Mark 10: 45; John 1:12, 3:16; Rom. 3:21; Eph. 2:8-10).

The saints in Heaven (Abraham’s bosom)—fully aware of their surroundings and delighted by its manifold blessings per their walk of faith (Heb. 12:22-24)—eagerly await their Lord's return at the end of the age, when Our Lord will consummate their redemption by raising them from the dead with new, glorified, resurrection bodies just as He now possesses, and by creating for them a glorious new world in which they will forever live together with Him (Luke 20:27-40, John 5:28, 1 Cor. 15, Phil. 3:20-21; 2 Pet. 3:13).

Those who enter Hades (Sheol in Hebrew) do so based upon their own evil works, especially upon the evil work of suppressing the truth that God made known to them through nature, the Law, and the Gospel, the Gospel being God's only provision for the forgiveness of sin and the acquisition of eternal life (John 3:19,36: John 5:29; Acts 13:46, Rom. 2:8; 2 Thess. 1:8; Rev. 20:12).

In Hades the lost are in the torments of eternal punishment, deprived of God's every life-giving blessing, conscious of God's abiding wrath, and subject to the positive pains of divine retribution all according to their particular sins. Also, to the extent that they may be aware of it, the lost are tormented in this intermediate state of prison by anticipation of the Resurrection and the Day of Judgment, when Christ will send them—body and soul—into Gehenna (Hell), the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt. 8:29, Mt. 10:28, 25: 41; Mark 9:48, Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thess. 1:9; Rev. 20:14) where they will remain forever afterwards suffering unending punishment.

AMR

I didn't either.

God's Truth
July 30th, 2015, 03:17 PM
Anyone who believes in soul sleep should explain how Jesus filled the whole universe if people who died no longer live in their spirit. How did Jesus die for those who lived and died before Jesus came to earth?

Zeke
August 1st, 2015, 03:10 PM
I do not find warrant in Scripture for psychopannychia (soul sleep).

Concerning all who die prior to Christ's return, the Bible teaches that at the moment of death the human spirit (soul) departs its body to one of two possible destinations: Heaven or Hades (Luke 16:19-31; Phil. 1:19-26; James 2:26; Rev. 6:9, 20:4). Those who reach Heaven do so based not upon their own good works, but upon the work of Christ in their behalf—His righteous life and atoning death—and upon their God-given faith in Him (Mark 10: 45; John 1:12, 3:16; Rom. 3:21; Eph. 2:8-10).

The saints in Heaven (Abraham’s bosom)—fully aware of their surroundings and delighted by its manifold blessings per their walk of faith (Heb. 12:22-24)—eagerly await their Lord's return at the end of the age, when Our Lord will consummate their redemption by raising them from the dead with new, glorified, resurrection bodies just as He now possesses, and by creating for them a glorious new world in which they will forever live together with Him (Luke 20:27-40, John 5:28, 1 Cor. 15, Phil. 3:20-21; 2 Pet. 3:13).

Those who enter Hades (Sheol in Hebrew) do so based upon their own evil works, especially upon the evil work of suppressing the truth that God made known to them through nature, the Law, and the Gospel, the Gospel being God's only provision for the forgiveness of sin and the acquisition of eternal life (John 3:19,36: John 5:29; Acts 13:46, Rom. 2:8; 2 Thess. 1:8; Rev. 20:12).

In Hades the lost are in the torments of eternal punishment, deprived of God's every life-giving blessing, conscious of God's abiding wrath, and subject to the positive pains of divine retribution all according to their particular sins. Also, to the extent that they may be aware of it, the lost are tormented in this intermediate state of prison by anticipation of the Resurrection and the Day of Judgment, when Christ will send them—body and soul—into Gehenna (Hell), the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt. 8:29, Mt. 10:28, 25: 41; Mark 9:48, Luke 16:19-31; 2 Thess. 1:9; Rev. 20:14) where they will remain forever afterwards suffering unending punishment.

AMR

Yet the letter killeth 2Cor 3:6, the spirit gives life which Jesus represented in man that is asleep in ignorance until awakened, born again within, and not observational by the natural mans sight Luke 17:20-21 yet religion and theology tries to make two individuals of history that was observable and among man in flesh instead of the inward intent of the scripture that was never meant to be taken literal or historical.

Bright Raven
August 1st, 2015, 03:23 PM
Nope! Not even.

Zeke
August 1st, 2015, 03:53 PM
Yep it was, Galatians 4:24.

Cons&Spires
August 1st, 2015, 04:02 PM
If something as simple as 'soul sleep' were ever theologically applicable, there wouldn't have been so much having to deduce and work around the issues surrounding what happens with the soul immediately after death in the first place.

"Soul sleep' is not only heretical, it is a rank lazy notion.

Zeke
August 1st, 2015, 04:21 PM
Soul sleep, symbolic/allegorical, pertaining to the Divine seed that falls to the ground and dies, a dramatized story through scripture that was corrupted by Rome and their blood pagan sacrifice that was a inward story not a literal historic event concerning God kingdom within man Luke 17:20-21 Genesis 32:30, the third eye/peniel gland is the light receptor of the Divine light..

The skull/ Galgotha is where the events takes place in man, not on some literal hill in IS-RA-EL .

Lazy afternoon
August 1st, 2015, 08:38 PM
If something as simple as 'soul sleep' were ever theologically applicable, there wouldn't have been so much having to deduce and work around the issues surrounding what happens with the soul immediately after death in the first place.

"Soul sleep' is not only heretical, it is a rank lazy notion.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

LA

God's Truth
August 1st, 2015, 09:20 PM
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

LA

Those scriptures are about those who died physically. How do you ever get it means we do not have spirits that live on in consciousness?

Lazy afternoon
August 1st, 2015, 11:41 PM
Those scriptures are about those who died physically. How do you ever get it means we do not have spirits that live on in consciousness?

You claim Jesus Spirit was only that of God the Father,

yet you claim all other men have a spirit which lives on after death with full consciousness which only a living soul can have.

Thus you say Jesus is not a man like all men, which negates His sacrifice, in fulfilling Gods law.

You also claim immortality for the human spirit which it does not possess until Christ raises men from the dead to meet Him in the air.

If they are alive before the resurrection then they would have met Christ before He returns to give them immortality.

LA

OCTOBER23
August 2nd, 2015, 12:00 AM
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Huh , what did I miss ????

God's Truth
August 2nd, 2015, 12:52 AM
You claim Jesus Spirit was only that of God the Father,
How is it you can say "only" ?




yet you claim all other men have a spirit which lives on after death with full consciousness which only a living soul can have.

Our spirits make our bodies living souls.




Thus you say Jesus is not a man like all men, which negates His sacrifice, in fulfilling Gods law.
Jesus is not a man like all men. Jesus does not have a biological earthly father. She came from heaven. Jesus is sinless. Jesus is God come in the flesh as a Son of Man.



You also claim immortality for the human spirit which it does not possess until Christ raises men from the dead to meet Him in the air.

When Jesus comes and raises us up from the dead that is when he gives us new immortal bodies. Our spirits are with him now in heaven, and will go to heaven to be with him when our physical bodies die.



If they are alive before the resurrection then they would have met Christ before He returns to give them immortality.

LA

Jesus brings the spirits of those who have died with him when he comes, and then he gives them new bodies.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

Nick M
August 2nd, 2015, 10:22 AM
The dead are unconscious and brain dead.


So you are dead? I was wondering about that.

Lazy afternoon
August 2nd, 2015, 05:39 PM
How is it you can say "only" ?

Because if Jesus was only the Spirit of the Father in human flesh then He was never a man, knowing the things of mans spirit.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.





Our spirits make our bodies living souls.

True, but without the body one can not have the consciousness of the soul.



Jesus is not a man like all men. Jesus does not have a biological earthly father. She came from heaven. Jesus is sinless. Jesus is God come in the flesh as a Son of Man.

God's word says Jesus was made like all men, but the Spirit which fathered Him was pure and unrelated to Adam.

It was then necessary that the Father keep Jesus from sin by teaching the Word to Him, and other things.

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.







When Jesus comes and raises us up from the dead that is when he gives us new immortal bodies. Our spirits are with him now in heaven, and will go to heaven to be with him when our physical bodies die.

No.

Our spirits are with God on earth in the grave (2 Kings 13:21) if we are reconciled to Him until the resurrection when He comes for us---

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.




Jesus brings the spirits of those who have died with him when he comes, and then he gives them new bodies.

No scripture says that.

The scripture says Jesus will bring with Him those He has risen up to be with Him in the clouds after He returns from Heaven.


1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

It should be obvious that those who are fallen asleep in Him have been awakened in the resurrection before they come down with Him--

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

LA

God's Truth
August 2nd, 2015, 06:46 PM
Because if Jesus was only the Spirit of the Father in human flesh then He was never a man, knowing the things of mans spirit.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

How do you ever get that that scripture means God did not come as a Man if Jesus had the Spirit of God as his Spirit? His Spirit was as an infant’s, and grew with him as a man’s spirit would grow.

The Bible speaks of God the Father’s Spirit, Jesus’ Spirit, and the Holy Spirit.
Jesus’ Spirit must be God the Father’s Spirit, because there is only one Spirit. You cannot ever get around that.



True, but without the body one can not have the consciousness of the soul.

That is not true, for Paul speaks about a man possibly being out of his body and experiencing consciousness.




God's word says Jesus was made like all men, but the Spirit which fathered Him was pure and unrelated to Adam.
Jesus came from heaven that is what the Bible says.


Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh. He was found in appearance as a man. Jesus was made like a man. That tells us that Jesus was God in heaven before coming to earth, for what then does it mean to be made “like a man”?


Philippians 2:7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-- even death on a cross!

2 Corinthians 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people

Romans 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David,

Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,




It was then necessary that the Father keep Jesus from sin by teaching the Word to Him, and other things.

Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;


Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


Again, being made like someone proves he was not by nature like them.





No.

You said no to what the scripture plainly said.





Our spirits are with God on earth in the grave (2 Kings 13:21) if we are reconciled to Him until the resurrection when He comes for us---

God is not in the grave.






Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

That scripture is not about at the resurrection, for we will not live in heaven at the resurrection.

Jesus comes for us when we die.

Jesus says that he is going to prepare a place for them and that he will come back and takes them to be with him. We see in Acts that Jesus came for Stephen. See Acts 7:55 But Stephen full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.

We see that Jesus came back for Stephen. In addition, we see in 2 Timothy 4:18 that Paul is confident that Jesus will come back to get him and bring him safely to his heavenly kingdom. See the following...

2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.




No scripture says that.

The scripture says Jesus will bring with Him those He has risen up to be with Him in the clouds after He returns from Heaven.

You twisted what it says. Just believe what it plainly says.

Lazy afternoon
August 3rd, 2015, 08:23 PM
How do you ever get that that scripture means God did not come as a Man if Jesus had the Spirit of God as his Spirit? His Spirit was as an infant’s, and grew with him as a man’s spirit would grow.

The Fathers Spirit never needed to grow.


The Bible speaks of God the Father’s Spirit, Jesus’ Spirit, and the Holy Spirit.
Jesus’ Spirit must be God the Father’s Spirit, because there is only one Spirit. You cannot ever get around that.

Wrong.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

"to God the judge of all"

"The spirits of just men"

"AND to Jesus the mediator"

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God,

and one mediator between God and men,

the man Christ Jesus;






That is not true, for Paul speaks about a man possibly being out of his body and experiencing consciousness.

Paul did not know.



Jesus came from heaven that is what the Bible says.

John was sent from Heaven.

Paul was sent from Heaven.

All the saints are sent from Heaven.


Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh. He was found in appearance as a man. Jesus was made like a man. That tells us that Jesus was God in heaven before coming to earth, for what then does it mean to be made “like a man”?

The word came from Heaven and formed Jesus from birth to His baptism.

Jesus was made like all men are made in order that He become their High Priest.



Philippians 2:7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death-- even death on a cross!

2 Corinthians 8:9 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.

Hebrews 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people

Romans 1:3 regarding his Son, who as to his earthly life was a descendant of David,

Romans 8:3
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,



Again, being made like someone proves he was not by nature like them.

Jesus spirit was of man but not impure, in that the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons which is the law of God, but the Father of Jesus is God, not Adam.

Jesus birth also required that His mother was Holy, unblamable.

Jesus nature was in every way a human nature, or His sacrifice is illegal, and satan would be laughing.



God is not in the grave.

God never died or ever could be tempted.

This is why the Father thrust Jesus into the wilderness alone to be tempted, and why Jesus felt so forsaken at the cross, though knowing He was not.




"Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

That scripture is not about at the resurrection, for we will not live in heaven at the resurrection.

The verses states that Jesus will return to earths clouds and receive the saints to Himself. There is no indication that Jesus will return to Heaven with the saints, for much of Heaven comes with Him.(The Glory of the Father and the Holy Angels)


Jesus comes for us when we die.

No such scripture exists. Even the last witnesses await three and a half days before being raised from the dead and being taken up to be with Christ in the clouds of the earth. Rev.ch 14.




Jesus says that he is going to prepare a place for them and that he will come back and takes them to be with him. We see in Acts that Jesus came for Stephen. See Acts 7:55 But Stephen full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.

Steven fell asleep which means he was dead , not alive.


We see that Jesus came back for Stephen. In addition, we see in 2 Timothy 4:18 that Paul is confident that Jesus will come back to get him and bring him safely to his heavenly kingdom. See the following...

2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

You read into scripture what is not said.

What is said is---

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


LA

God's Truth
August 3rd, 2015, 08:43 PM
The Fathers Spirit never needed to grow.
He came as a Man, so his Spirit did grow with him.




Wrong.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

You said, “Wrong”, and gave those scriptures to my saying, “The Bible speaks of God the Father’s Spirit, Jesus’ Spirit, and the Holy Spirit.
Jesus’ Spirit must be God the Father’s Spirit, because there is only one Spirit. You cannot ever get around that.”

How do you ever get that those scriptures disprove what I said? In fact, those scriptures prove our spirits live on after the death of our bodies…another truth you do not believe in.




"to God the judge of all"

"The spirits of just men"

"AND to Jesus the mediator"

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God,

and one mediator between God and men,

the man Christ Jesus;

There are three, and God came as a Son of Man named Jesus.





Paul did not know.
If our spirits being out of the body is impossible, then Paul would not say it was a possibility.




John was sent from Heaven.

Paul was sent from Heaven.

All the saints are sent from Heaven.

Jesus CAME from heaven.

You are disappointing, for I thought you were better at studying than what you are showing here.


The word came from Heaven and formed Jesus from birth to His baptism.

Jesus was made like all men are made in order that He become their High Priest.
If Jesus was just a man, as you say, then he would not need to be “made like a man”.




Jesus spirit was of man but not impure, in that the sins of the fathers are visited upon the sons which is the law of God, but the Father of Jesus is God, not Adam.

Jesus birth also required that His mother was Holy, unblamable.

Jesus nature was in every way a human nature, or His sacrifice is illegal, and satan would be laughing.

You are making Satan laugh.





God never died or ever could be tempted.

This is why the Father thrust Jesus into the wilderness alone to be tempted, and why Jesus felt so forsaken at the cross, though knowing He was not.

God came as a Son of Man.




The verses states that Jesus will return to earths clouds and receive the saints to Himself. There is no indication that Jesus will return to Heaven with the saints, for much of Heaven comes with Him.(The Glory of the Father and the Holy Angels)

You are the one who said Jesus will bring people back to heaven after the resurrection. Lol Have you forgotten what you said?



No such scripture exists. Even the last witnesses await three and a half days before being raised from the dead and being taken up to be with Christ in the clouds of the earth. Rev.ch 14.

Steven fell asleep which means he was dead , not alive.

Jesus came for Stephen.



You read into scripture what is not said.
You deny the scriptures.