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Robert Pate
July 21st, 2015, 11:34 AM
Ephesians 1:4, 5. "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

Calvinst frequently quote this scripture to try and prove predestination, but what does it really mean according to the Gospel?

"According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world".

Calvinist teach that God chooses "Some certain persons" to be saved from the foundation of the world. Is that what this scripture is saying" No, far from it.

The only one that was chosen before the foundation of the world was Jesus Christ. "Who verily was fordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20. Peter was talking about Jesus. God knew that Adam and his descendants would sin. He also knew that they would need a savior. God looked into the future because he knew that Jesus would be... "The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" Revelation 13:8.

Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity. God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17, this is why the scripture says, "That we should be holy and without blame before him in love" The only way that you can be holy and without blame is to be "In Christ". God saw us "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. NO ONE HAS BEEN PREDESTINATED, that is false doctrine.

We (the whole world) was predestinated to be "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. Jesus reconciled the whole world to God by his doing and his dying, 2 Corinthians 5:19, not "Some certain persons". God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This is why Paul said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with God in Christ" Colossians 3:3. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Colossians 2:15. God is at peace with the world because of Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

This does not mean that everyone is saved. What it means is that salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that now, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Robert Pate
July 28th, 2015, 09:26 AM
Jesus Christ is God's new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The scripture says..."He has chosen us IN HIM before the foundation of the world" Ephesians 1:4.

God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and humanities new representative.

"And has raised us up together and has made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" Ephesians 2:6.

Many do not understand Ephesians 1:3-6, because they do not understand the Gospel. The Gospel is about how God has reconciled the whole world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

God does NOT predestinate individuals. God deals with all of humanity in by and through his Son Jesus Christ.

Danoh
July 28th, 2015, 10:18 AM
My own understanding of this Mystery is that God predestinated to do some things for Himself IN His Son IN a new creature.

Those IN Adam who choose to believe ON His Son are THEN placed IN His Son through the faith of the operation of God...

Being THEN made, by this placing INTO His Son, in the moment they believe; partakers WITH Him of what God has predestinated to do IN His Son.

First believe; choose to trust Christ, and God THEN chooses you IN His Son - in the moment you believe ON His Son, God THEN makes you a partaker of what He has chosen to do for Himself IN His Son WITH Him.

Neither Calvinist, not Arminian - in that the choosing is not unilateral, rather; bilateral.

Robert Pate
July 28th, 2015, 10:56 AM
My own understanding of this Mystery is that God predestinated to do some things for Himself IN His Son IN a new creature.

Those IN Adam who choose to believe ON His Son are THEN placed IN His Son through the faith of the operation of God...

Being THEN made, by this placing INTO His Son, in the moment they believe; partakers WITH Him of what God has predestinated to do IN His Son.

First believe; choose to trust Christ, and God THEN chooses you IN His Son - in the moment you believe ON His Son, God THEN makes you a partaker of what He has chosen to do for Himself IN His Son WITH Him.

Neither Calvinist, not Arminian - in that the choosing is not unilateral, rather; bilateral.


God does NOTHING outside of Jesus Christ.

"He (Jesus) is before ALL THINGS, and by him ALL THINGS consist" Colossians 1:17.

There is no individual predestination of individuals because God is no respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. God does everything in by and through Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the savior and reconciler of the whole world, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. We have been reconciled unto to God, Not predestinated unto God.

God now sees ALL THINGS in Jesus Christ. God is now at peace with the world because of the doing and the dying of Jesus, Colossians 1:20.

However, when Jesus returns there will be a judgment to see who is in Christ and who is in their sins, 2 Peter 3:7.

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 11:55 AM
Ephesians 1:4, 5. "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

Calvinst frequently quote this scripture to try and prove predestination, but what does it really mean according to the Gospel?

"According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world".

Calvinist teach that God chooses "Some certain persons" to be saved from the foundation of the world. Is that what this scripture is saying" No, far from it.

The only one that was chosen before the foundation of the world was Jesus Christ. "Who verily was fordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20. Peter was talking about Jesus. God knew that Adam and his descendants would sin. He also knew that they would need a savior. God looked into the future because he knew that Jesus would be... "The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" Revelation 13:8.

Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity. God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17, this is why the scripture says, "That we should be holy and without blame before him in love" The only way that you can be holy and without blame is to be "In Christ". God saw us "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. NO ONE HAS BEEN PREDESTINATED, that is false doctrine.

We (the whole world) was predestinated to be "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. Jesus reconciled the whole world to God by his doing and his dying, 2 Corinthians 5:19, not "Some certain persons". God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This is why Paul said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with God in Christ" Colossians 3:3. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Colossians 2:15. God is at peace with the world because of Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

This does not mean that everyone is saved. What it means is that salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that now, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

You speak evil and against predestination all the time here on this forum !

Robert Pate
July 28th, 2015, 01:57 PM
You speak evil and against predestination all the time here on this forum !


Its a false doctrine.

You need to repent from it.

If it were true the Bible would be full of it. There is NOTHING.

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 02:10 PM
There is no individual predestination of individuals because God is no respecter of persons, Acts 10:34. God does everything in by and through Jesus Christ.

These verses are speaking about 'individual" believers being predestined to


"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).

The key to the teaching of this passage depends on an understanding of the meaning of the Greek word translated "for" found at the beginning of verse twenty-nine. The word is a conjunction which ties the two verses together, and the word means "the reason why anything is said to be or be done...it is added to a speaker's words to show what ground he gives for his opinion" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Romans 8:29 Paul tells us why he says that "all things work together for good" for the saved, those he describes as the called:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).

The reason why "all things work together for good" in regard to the saved is because the LORD predetermined that the believers will be conformed to the image of the Son. That will happen when the Lord descends from heaven and the saved will put on bodies just like his glorious body:


"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body" (Phil.3:20-21).

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 03:05 PM
Its a false doctrine.

You need to repent from it.

If it were true the Bible would be full of it. There is NOTHING.

You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 03:10 PM
These verses are speaking about 'individual" believers being predestined to

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).
The key to the teaching of this passage depends on an understanding of the meaning of the Greek word translated "for" found at the beginning of verse twenty-nine. The word is a conjunction which ties the two verses together, and the word means "the reason why anything is said to be or be done...it is added to a speaker's words to show what ground he gives for his opinion" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

At Romans 8:29 Paul tells us why he says that "all things work together for good" for the saved, those he describes as the called:

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren" (Ro.8:28-29).

The reason why "all things work together for good" in regard to the saved is because the LORD predetermined that the believers will be conformed to the image of the Son. That will happen when the Lord descends from heaven and the saved will put on bodies just like his glorious body:

"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body" (Phil.3:20-21).


They were predetermined to become believers ! They werent believers prior to being called by the Gospel !

They were called because they had been predestinated Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate1, them he also called 2: and whom he called, them he also justified: and who m he justified, them he also glorified.

Danoh
July 28th, 2015, 03:11 PM
You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !

More of your mess, B57.

He predestinated that He would choose you IN Him, and seal you IN Him "after that ye believed" Eph. 1:13.

Danoh
July 28th, 2015, 03:14 PM
They were predetermined to become believers ! They werent believers prior to being called by the Gospel !

They were called because they had been predestinated Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate1, them he also called 2: and whom he called, them he also justified: and who m he justified, them he also glorified.

Wrong again!

He predestinated He would conform those who believe... INTO the image of His Son.

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 03:17 PM
Wrong again!

He predestinated He would conform those who believe... INTO the image of His Son.
That's not what scriptures state! They were predestinated then called Rom 8:30 !

Jerry Shugart
July 28th, 2015, 03:24 PM
They were predetermined to become believers ! They werent believers prior to being called by the Gospel !

Of course you just IGNORED the actual meaning of what Paul wrote at Romans 8:28-29.

Now let look at this verse:


"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" (Ro.8:30).

As I proved, the ones who He did predestinate are the saved. And the saved were called and justified and glorified.

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 04:00 PM
Of course you just IGNORED the actual meaning of what Paul wrote at Romans 8:28-29.

Now let look at this verse:


"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified" (Ro.8:30).

As I proved, the ones who He did predestinate are the saved. And the saved were called and justified and glorified.
They were predestinated then called by the Gospel, so they were predestinated before becoming believers! They were not believers before they were called by the Gospel!

Robert Pate
July 28th, 2015, 04:34 PM
You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !


Predestination is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ.

God chose all of humanity in His Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

How else are you going to be holy and without blame before him in love? You are a sinner.

"If any man be in Christ he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God sees ALL THINGS in His Son Jesus Christ. Colossians 1:20.

Jesus Christ as God's new humanity has reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

beloved57
July 28th, 2015, 05:13 PM
Predestination is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ.

God chose all of humanity in His Son Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:4.

How else are you going to be holy and without blame before him in love? You are a sinner.

"If any man be in Christ he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

God sees ALL THINGS in His Son Jesus Christ. Colossians 1:20.

Jesus Christ as God's new humanity has reconciled the whole world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Predestination is a Gospel of Gods Grace Doctrine Ephesians 1:3-6 !

Robert Pate
July 30th, 2015, 06:51 AM
Predestination is a Gospel of Gods Grace Doctrine Ephesians 1:3-6 !


There is no grace in a God that sends people to hell for no reason.

Your God is unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous and is a tyrant.

You have the wrong God.

beloved57
July 30th, 2015, 09:02 AM
There is no grace in a God that sends people to hell for no reason.

Your God is unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous and is a tyrant.

You have the wrong God.

More evil speaking against God!

Robert Pate
July 30th, 2015, 09:05 AM
More evil speaking against God!

No, because the God of Calvinism is not the God in the Bible.

You have the wrong God and the wrong doctrine.

beloved57
July 30th, 2015, 09:06 AM
No, because the God of Calvinism is not the God in the Bible.

You have the wrong God and the wrong doctrine.

You speak evil of Gods Grace and Salvation!

Robert Pate
July 30th, 2015, 09:16 AM
You speak evil of Gods Grace and Salvation!

There is no grace or salvation in your phony religion.

beloved57
July 30th, 2015, 11:27 AM
There is no grace or salvation in your phony religion.

You continue to speak evil of the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ!

Robert Pate
July 30th, 2015, 11:54 AM
You continue to speak evil of the Gospel of Gods Grace in Christ!


What is grace?

Here is Grace, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

beloved57
July 30th, 2015, 11:59 AM
What is grace?

Here is Grace, "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

Christ has believed for them He lived and died for, He obeyed the Law for them so He believed for them! Could He have obeyed the Law for them without Faith in God?

Robert Pate
July 30th, 2015, 12:17 PM
Christ has believed for them He lived and died for, He obeyed the Law for them so He believed for them! Could He have obeyed the Law for them without Faith in God?


You have 0 scripture that says that Jesus believes for anyone.

You fabricate these phony doctrines to try and prove that you are right.

beloved57
July 30th, 2015, 12:49 PM
You have 0 scripture that says that Jesus believes for anyone.

You fabricate these phony doctrines to try and prove that you are right.

You don't believe that Christ obeyed the Law of God for them He lived and died for? He did, that is why it reads by the obedience of one many shall be made righteous Rom 5:19 ! Adam disobeyed the law for them, Christ obeyed the Law for them! That's Gospel Truth!

Robert Pate
July 30th, 2015, 02:18 PM
You don't believe that Christ obeyed the Law of God for them He lived and died for? He did, that is why it reads by the obedience of one many shall be made righteous Rom 5:19 ! Adam disobeyed the law for them, Christ obeyed the Law for them! That's Gospel Truth!

Christ is NOT going to believe for you.

The Gospel calls for a responce. No responce is a responce.

beloved57
July 30th, 2015, 03:09 PM
Christ is NOT going to believe for you.

The Gospel calls for a responce. No responce is a responce.

You saying that Christ did not obey the Law for them He lived and died for?

Robert Pate
July 31st, 2015, 08:21 AM
You saying that Christ did not obey the Law for them He lived and died for?

You are switching subjects like the good heretic that you are.

Jesus believes for no one.

If you want to be saved this is what you need to do...

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

beloved57
July 31st, 2015, 08:59 AM
You are switching subjects like the good heretic that you are.

Jesus believes for no one.

If you want to be saved this is what you need to do...

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Did Christ obey the Law for them He lived and died for? Yes or No? If Yes did He do it in Faith or unbelief to God?

Robert Pate
July 31st, 2015, 12:37 PM
Did Christ obey the Law for them He lived and died for? Yes or No? If Yes did He do it in Faith or unbelief to God?

You need to do one of two things.

1. Show us the scripture that says Christ believes for us.

2. If you can't come up with scripture, then shut up.

beloved57
July 31st, 2015, 12:46 PM
You need to do one of two things.

1. Show us the scripture that says Christ believes for us.

2. If you can't come up with scripture, then shut up.

Did Christ obeyed the Law faithless?

Robert Pate
July 31st, 2015, 12:56 PM
Did Christ obeyed the Law faithless?

You are going to get yourself banned by asking the same stupid question over and over.

beloved57
July 31st, 2015, 01:29 PM
You are going to get yourself banned by asking the same stupid question over and over.

You have not answered my stupid question! God is in control when I get banned, that doesn't scare me! Now did Christ obey the Law for them He lived and died for as a faithless Man?

Robert Pate
July 31st, 2015, 04:48 PM
You have not answered my stupid question! God is in control when I get banned, that doesn't scare me! Now did Christ obey the Law for them He lived and died for as a faithless Man?


God does NOTHING outside of Jesus Christ.

If you do not come to Christ as a repentant sinner and call on him to save you, you will never see heaven, Romans 10:13.

beloved57
July 31st, 2015, 05:16 PM
God does NOTHING outside of Jesus Christ.

If you do not come to Christ as a repentant sinner and call on him to save you, you will never see heaven, Romans 10:13.

Those Christ died for went to heaven when He did, Ephesians 2:6 !

Totton Linnet
July 31st, 2015, 06:41 PM
Ephesians 1:4, 5. "According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

Calvinst frequently quote this scripture to try and prove predestination, but what does it really mean according to the Gospel?

"According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world".

Calvinist teach that God chooses "Some certain persons" to be saved from the foundation of the world. Is that what this scripture is saying" No, far from it.

The only one that was chosen before the foundation of the world was Jesus Christ. "Who verily was fordained before the foundation of the world" 1 Peter 1:20. Peter was talking about Jesus. God knew that Adam and his descendants would sin. He also knew that they would need a savior. God looked into the future because he knew that Jesus would be... "The Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world" Revelation 13:8.

Jesus Christ is God's new Adam and our new humanity. God saw all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17, this is why the scripture says, "That we should be holy and without blame before him in love" The only way that you can be holy and without blame is to be "In Christ". God saw us "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. NO ONE HAS BEEN PREDESTINATED, that is false doctrine.

We (the whole world) was predestinated to be "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. Jesus reconciled the whole world to God by his doing and his dying, 2 Corinthians 5:19, not "Some certain persons". God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. This is why Paul said, "For you are dead and your life is hid with God in Christ" Colossians 3:3. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been destroyed, Colossians 2:15. God is at peace with the world because of Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20.

This does not mean that everyone is saved. What it means is that salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus so that now, "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

What foolish contradictions people get into when they reject plain scripture.

Robert Pate
August 1st, 2015, 08:05 AM
What foolish contradictions people get into when they reject plain scripture.


The scripture is not plain when it comes to Calvinism.

There is no scripture that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

The Bible plainly teaches the Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:14, John 12:47.

If Jesus has provided salvation for ALL MEN, Hebrews 2:9 and that "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Why would anyone want to believe any different?

beloved57
August 2nd, 2015, 01:13 AM
The scripture is not plain when it comes to Calvinism.

There is no scripture that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell.

The Bible plainly teaches the Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2, 1 John 4:14, John 12:47.

If Jesus has provided salvation for ALL MEN, Hebrews 2:9 and that "Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Why would anyone want to believe any different?

You flat out deny Ephesians 1:3-6 and Rom 8:29 predestination to heaven is right there, it is Gospel of Gods Grace Truth which you don't believe!

Robert Pate
August 2nd, 2015, 08:21 AM
You flat out deny Ephesians 1:3-6 and Rom 8:29 predestination to heaven is right there, it is Gospel of Gods Grace Truth which you don't believe!


You have yet to explain what "Chosen in him" means.

beloved57
August 2nd, 2015, 08:30 AM
You have yet to explain what "Chosen in him" means.

Explained it already in my threads, you refuse to read them, that is your neglect!

Robert Pate
August 2nd, 2015, 08:39 AM
Explained it already in my threads, you refuse to read them, that is your neglect!


You can't explain it because it refutes your phony religion.

God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4.

Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Jesus is the first born of every creature, Colossians 1:15.

beloved57
August 2nd, 2015, 08:41 AM
You can't explain it because it refutes your phony religion.

God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, Ephesians 1:4.

Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Jesus is the first born of every creature, Colossians 1:15.

You have had plenty of opportunity to read my explanation, you neglect it!

Robert Pate
August 2nd, 2015, 06:53 PM
You have had plenty of opportunity to read my explanation, you neglect it!

Wht don't you admit that you can't explain it?

fishrovmen
October 25th, 2015, 11:14 AM
We (the whole world) was predestinated to be "In Christ" before the foundation of the world. [/B]

Uh oh...

heir
October 25th, 2015, 10:24 PM
You have the audacity to challenge God's Predestination of individuals to Salvation when the Doctrine is right in the scripture Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

The Adoption of Childen is Salvation !The context of the "us" is an all inclusive of those in the Body of Christ: the "we", "who first trusted in Christ" and the "ye" who "also trusted".

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


It is a "but now" truth that "those who were afar off", and "them that were nigh" are "both" reconciled "unto God in one body by the cross"!


Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.



It has everything to do with the twain made one new man and not Calvinism.

beloved57
October 25th, 2015, 11:12 PM
The context of the "us" is an all inclusive of those in the Body of Christ: the "we", "who first trusted in Christ" and the "ye" who "also trusted".

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


It is a "but now" truth that "those who were afar off", and "them that were nigh" are "both" reconciled "unto God in one body by the cross"!


Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.



It has everything to do with the twain made one new man and not Calvinism.

You don't even believe the Gospel!

heir
October 26th, 2015, 05:45 AM
You don't even believe the Gospel!
:yawn:

Robert Pate
December 3rd, 2015, 09:20 AM
The context of the "us" is an all inclusive of those in the Body of Christ: the "we", "who first trusted in Christ" and the "ye" who "also trusted".

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


It is a "but now" truth that "those who were afar off", and "them that were nigh" are "both" reconciled "unto God in one body by the cross"!


Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.



It has everything to do with the twain made one new man and not Calvinism.

Right heir.

God does nothing out side of his Son Jesus Christ.

"And he is before ALL THINGS, and by him ALL THINGS consist" Colossians 1:17.

jamie
December 3rd, 2015, 09:50 AM
Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;


However, some have attempted to restore that wall of separation by claiming that some of the NT is just for Hebrews (as if we are not Hebrews).

beloved57
December 3rd, 2015, 10:35 AM
Right heir.

God does nothing out side of his Son Jesus Christ.

"And he is before ALL THINGS, and by him ALL THINGS consist" Colossians 1:17.

You don't believe in Jesus Christ of the scripture ! You teach that millions upon millions for whom He died shall wind up in Hell for their sins in unbelief !

Robert Pate
December 3rd, 2015, 10:39 AM
However, some have attempted to restore that wall of separation by claiming that some of the NT is just for Hebrews (as if we are not Hebrews).


Jesus is neither Jew or Gentile.

He is the international savior. As the new Adam he gave himself for the sins of whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Robert Pate
December 3rd, 2015, 10:42 AM
You don't believe in Jesus Christ of the scripture ! You teach that millions upon millions for whom He died shall wind up in Hell for their sins in unbelief !

You have allowed yourself to be deceived by the devil.

lifeisgood
December 3rd, 2015, 10:50 AM
What is predestined/elected is the Plan of Salvation — Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

When a person accepts God's predestined/elected Plan of Salvation (Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary), then he/she is baptized by the Holy Spirit into the predestined/elected Plan of Salvation and he/she becomes predestined/elected IN HIM.

The Plan of Salvation is predestined/elected — NOT the person.

The person has to accept the predestined/elected Plan of Salvation of God so that God can place him/her IN HIM.

beloved57
December 3rd, 2015, 11:15 AM
You have allowed yourself to be deceived by the devil.

Your teaching is a disgrace to Christ !

Robert Pate
December 3rd, 2015, 11:22 AM
What is predestined/elected is the Plan of Salvation — Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary.

When a person accepts God's predestined/elected Plan of Salvation (Jesus Christ and what He did at the Cross of Calvary), then he/she is baptized by the Holy Spirit into the predestined/elected Plan of Salvation and he/she becomes predestined/elected IN HIM.

The Plan of Salvation is predestined/elected — NOT the person.

The person has to accept the predestined/elected Plan of Salvation of God so that God can place him/her IN HIM.

Yes and what a wonderful plan of salvation that it is.

"God was "In Christ" reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

So that now... "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

God's plan of salvation is so simple that many miss it.

beloved57
December 3rd, 2015, 11:25 AM
Yes and what a wonderful plan of salvation that it is.

"God was "In Christ" reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19.

So that now... "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

God's plan of salvation is so simple that many miss it.

You don't believe or understand them scriptures!

Robert Pate
December 3rd, 2015, 11:28 AM
You don't believe or understand them scriptures!


I understand them completely and stake my eternal soul on them.

You are lost and without understanding.

beloved57
December 3rd, 2015, 12:03 PM
I understand them completely and stake my eternal soul on them.

You are lost and without understanding.

No you don't believe them or understand them !

jamie
December 3rd, 2015, 01:04 PM
Jesus is neither Jew or Gentile.

He is the international savior. As the new Adam he gave himself for the sins of whole world, 1 John 2:2.


Are those from the tribe of Judah referred to in scripture as Jews or are they referred to as Gentiles.


For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. (Hebrews 7:14 NKJV)

And Jesus was not the new Adam. We are children of our Father, not the Son.

The first Adam imparted human nature to his descendants and Jesus' father imparts his Spirit to his descendants just like he did to Jesus who is our brother.

However, Jesus is the last Adam, the last one to impart eternal life to others for us to nurture and train.

I'm glad you are better, Robert. I missed you.

Robert Pate
December 3rd, 2015, 02:19 PM
Are those from the tribe of Judah referred to in scripture as Jews or are they referred to as Gentiles.


For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood. (Hebrews 7:14 NKJV)

And Jesus was not the new Adam. We are children of our Father, not the Son.

The first Adam imparted human nature to his descendants and Jesus' father imparts his Spirit to his descendants just like he did to Jesus who is our brother.

However, Jesus is the last Adam, the last one to impart eternal life to others for us to nurture and train.

I'm glad you are better, Robert. I missed you.


"For as by one Spirit (the Holy Spirit) we are all baptized into one body" 1 Corinthians 12:13.

Jesus is the new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

No one will be saved that is not found to be "In Christ".

We are heirs and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. Romans 8:17.

jamie
December 3rd, 2015, 05:10 PM
Jesus is the new Adam and our new humanity, 2 Corinthians 5:17.


The first Adam was the father of humanity. Jesus is not a father at this time, he is our brother.

beloved57
December 4th, 2015, 12:32 PM
The first Adam was the father of humanity. Jesus is not a father at this time, he is our brother.

Only of the Elect of humanity !

lifeisgood
December 4th, 2015, 12:46 PM
Only of the Elect of humanity !

I will ask you as Tambora asked you a while ago:
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?

or

do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?

Robert Pate
December 4th, 2015, 01:30 PM
The first Adam was the father of humanity. Jesus is not a father at this time, he is our brother.

You have missed it again.

Jesus is far more than our brother. He is our substitute and representative savior. All that Jesus did, he did for us, in our name and on our behalf. He is our justifier, Romans 3:26.

When he returns he will not be returning as our brother.

He is returning as the..."The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

He will return to claim that which is his.

beloved57
December 4th, 2015, 01:43 PM
You have missed it again.

Jesus is far more than our brother. He is our substitute and representative savior. All that Jesus did, he did for us, in our name and on our behalf. He is our justifier, Romans 3:26.

When he returns he will not be returning as our brother.

He is returning as the..."The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

He will return to claim that which is his.

You teach that millions for whom Christ died for are lost in their sins in unbelief !

jamie
December 4th, 2015, 01:56 PM
When he returns he will not be returning as our brother.


Yes, you seem to think Jesus changes from day to day. One day he and we have the same Father the next day not.

Robert Pate
December 4th, 2015, 02:18 PM
You teach that millions for whom Christ died for are lost in their sins in unbelief !


You have been deceived by the doctrine of men.

Robert Pate
December 4th, 2015, 02:19 PM
Yes, you seem to think Jesus changes from day to day. One day he and we have the same Father the next day not.

Jesus does not change.

The same yesterday and today.

Bright Raven
December 4th, 2015, 02:25 PM
You have been deceived by the doctrine of men.Yes he has.

beloved57
December 4th, 2015, 02:46 PM
You have been deceived by the doctrine of men.

You make Christ a defeated failure as a Savior !

jamie
December 4th, 2015, 04:01 PM
Jesus does not change.

The same yesterday and today.


So why did you say he would no longer be our brother since we are joint heirs?

Robert Pate
December 4th, 2015, 04:19 PM
You make Christ a defeated failure as a Savior !

You are not able to confess that "Jesus is Lord".

Jesus has victoriously defeated, sin, death and the devil and has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Robert Pate
December 4th, 2015, 04:26 PM
So why did you say he would no longer be our brother since we are joint heirs?


What I am saying is that Jesus is far more than our brother.

You seem to appear to delude the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

The Bible exhalts the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:9, 10, 11.

beloved57
December 4th, 2015, 04:33 PM
You are not able to confess that "Jesus is Lord".

Jesus has victoriously defeated, sin, death and the devil and has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

You make Christ a defeated Savior, folk He came to specifically save by dying for their sins, you have them going to hell anyway !

beloved57
December 4th, 2015, 04:35 PM
What I am saying is that Jesus is far more than our brother.

You seem to appear to delude the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

The Bible exhalts the work and the person of Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:9, 10, 11.

The bible does but you don't ! You teach that millions for whom He loved and died for wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief John 8:24 !

Bright Raven
December 4th, 2015, 04:48 PM
The bible does but you don't ! You teach that millions for whom He loved and died for wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief John 8:24 !

You are wrong, he's right.

beloved57
December 4th, 2015, 04:58 PM
You are not able to confess that "Jesus is Lord".

Jesus has victoriously defeated, sin, death and the devil and has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

All men are not reconciled to God, many are under God's condemnation and wrath John 3:18,36 so you don't believe or understand that passage you quoted !

Nanja
December 4th, 2015, 06:24 PM
All men are not reconciled to God, many are under God's condemnation and wrath John 3:18,36 so you don't believe or understand that passage you quoted !


Exactly!

Pate has no true understanding of the scriptures, which are God Breathed 2 Tim. 3:16,
because he has not been Born of the Spirit.

2 Cr 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: v.4 In whom the god of this world
hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ,
who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 Cor. 2:12-14
v.12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. v.13 Which things also we speak,
not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual. v.14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 4th, 2015, 06:34 PM
Exactly!

Pate has no true understanding of the scriptures, which are God Breathed 2 Tim. 3:16,
because he has not been Born of the Spirit.

2 Cr 4:3-4
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: v.4 In whom the god of this world
hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ,
who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 Cor. 2:12-14
v.12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. v.13 Which things also we speak,
not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;
comparing spiritual things with spiritual. v.14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

~~~~~

Amen ! For sure .

Robert Pate
December 5th, 2015, 07:47 AM
What a person believes God to be is what they will teach and believe.

Calvinist believe God to be unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous and is a tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

This is the basis for their doctrine. They cannot conceive that, "God so loves the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

beloved57
December 5th, 2015, 08:04 AM
What a person believes God to be is what they will teach and believe.

Calvinist believe God to be unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous and is a tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

This is the basis for their doctrine. They cannot conceive that, "God so loves the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

Those who teach against the Truths of Tulip, also known as Calvinism, are teaching against the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ!

Robert Pate
December 5th, 2015, 08:34 AM
Those who teach against the Truths of Tulip, also known as Calvinism, are teaching against the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ!


Just like what I said.

Whatever a person believes God to be, his nature and his character is what they will teach and believe.

You and Nanja believe God to be and ujust, unmerciful, unrighteous, tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

The Bible knows nothing of your kind of God.

beloved57
December 5th, 2015, 08:52 AM
Just like what I said.

Whatever a person believes God to be, his nature and his character is what they will teach and believe.

You and Nanja believe God to be and ujust, unmerciful, unrighteous, tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

The Bible knows nothing of your kind of God.

You can't believe the Gospel when you teach against it ! Tulip is the Gospel !

Nanja
December 5th, 2015, 08:58 AM
What a person believes God to be is what they will teach and believe.

Calvinist believe God to be unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous and is a tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

This is the basis for their doctrine. They cannot conceive that, "God so loves the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.


What you teach and believe from your blinded mind 2 Cor. 4:3-4 is warped doctrine,
in that Christ died for the sins of all humanity, but yet many will end up in hell for their sins.

That's blasphemy against the Efficacious Blood of Christ for all those His Death was for:
His Sheep John 10:11,15; His Church Eph. 5:25; His People Mat. 1:21!



The World that God Loves and gave His Son for is Limited to His Elect, whom God had chosen in Christ
to be His Adopted Sons, before the foundation of the world, to have forgiveness / remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7.
Christ Jesus was their Covenant Head and Surety from Everlasting Heb. 7:22.

God Promised The Elect Eternal Life before the world began.

Titus 1:1-2
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect,
and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; v.2 In hope of eternal life,
which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

2 Tim. 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

2 Thes. 2:13-14
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.



But God never loved the cursed goats the devil sowed in the world Mat. 13:38-39; Mat. 25:33, 41;
those whom He appointed to be condemned Jude 1:4.

~~~~~

jamie
December 5th, 2015, 08:59 AM
You seem to appear to delude the Lordship of Jesus Christ.


How does Jesus being our elder brother and joint heir delude his lordship?

Did Jesus say we have the same father as he?

Nanja
December 5th, 2015, 09:07 AM
Those who teach against the Truths of Tulip, also known as Calvinism, are teaching against the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ!

Absolutely, Brother!:up:

~~~~~

beloved57
December 5th, 2015, 09:13 AM
What you teach and believe from your blinded mind 2 Cor. 4:3-4 is warped doctrine,
in that Christ died for the sins of all humanity, but yet many will end up in hell for their sins.

That's blasphemy against the Efficacious Blood of Christ for all those His Death was for:
His Sheep John 10:11,15; His Church Eph. 5:25; His People Mat. 1:21!



The World that God Loves and gave His Son for is Limited to His Elect, whom God had chosen in Christ
to be His Adopted Sons, before the foundation of the world, to have forgiveness / remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7.
Christ Jesus was their Covenant Head and Surety from Everlasting Heb. 7:22.

God Promised The Elect Eternal Life before the world began.

Titus 1:1-2
Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect,
and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; v.2 In hope of eternal life,
which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

2 Tim. 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

2 Tim. 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

2 Thes. 2:13-14
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.



But God never loved the cursed goats the devil sowed in the world Mat. 13:38-39; Mat. 25:33, 41;
those whom He appointed to be condemned Jude 1:4.

~~~~~

Thanks, that is God Glorifying Doctrine you testify to !

Nanja
December 5th, 2015, 09:37 AM
Thanks, that is God Glorifying Doctrine you testify to !

Yeah, what else can we do but give Him all Glory!
In Him We Live and move and have our being,
and His Praise is forever on our hearts. :)

~~~~~

beloved57
December 5th, 2015, 10:09 AM
Yeah, what else can we do but give Him all Glory!
In Him We Live and move and have our being,
and His Praise is forever on our hearts. :)

~~~~~

Amen ! :-)

Robert Pate
December 5th, 2015, 10:11 AM
Yeah, what else can we do but give Him all Glory!
In Him We Live and move and have our being,
and His Praise is forever on our hearts. :)

~~~~~


The fact remains. You believe that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending multitudes to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam.

You avoid scripture that teaches God is just, merciful and righteous.

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

It is beyond your twisted comprehension that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has made a way for... "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13.

Robert Pate
December 5th, 2015, 10:14 AM
How does Jesus being our elder brother and joint heir delude his lordship?

Did Jesus say we have the same father as he?

Sorry, I am not feeling well. I have to go lay down for a while.

jamie
December 5th, 2015, 11:27 AM
Sorry, I am not feeling well. I have to go lay down for a while.


I hope you get to feeling better soon.

Robert Pate
December 5th, 2015, 11:56 AM
I hope you get to feeling better soon.


Thanks, my physical recovery will be slow.

Nanja
December 5th, 2015, 12:01 PM
The fact remains. You believe that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending multitudes to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam.

You avoid scripture that teaches God is just, merciful and righteous.

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

It is beyond your twisted comprehension that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has made a way for... "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13.


Belief of the Truth is a Fruit of the Holy Spirit Given to only God's Elect,
chosen In Union with Christ before the world began 2 Thes. 2:13-14; Eph. 1:3-5; 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
December 5th, 2015, 01:18 PM
Belief of the Truth is a Fruit of the Holy Spirit Given to only God's Elect,
chosen In Union with Christ before the world began 2 Thes. 2:13-14; Eph. 1:3-5; 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~


If God only provides salvation for some and not all, 1 John 2:2.

Then you have an unjust God that cannot be trusted.

You have not been chosen in Christ, nor do you have the Holy Spirit.

Those that have the Holy Spirit magnify Christ and his Gospel.

Nanja
December 5th, 2015, 04:08 PM
If God only provides salvation for some and not all, 1 John 2:2.
Then you have an unjust God that cannot be trusted.


Who are you to judge the God?

Rom. 9:20-23
v.20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
v.21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel
unto honour, and another unto dishonour? v.22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath,
and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
v.23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.


These verses prove that man does not have a free will;
but that it is God's Will which is the determining factor
to perform whatever He so Desires.


Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will
in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand,
or say unto him, What doest thou?

Job 23:13-14
v.13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
v.14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Is. 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done,
saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure



Also, it is obvious from these scriptures that God does not desire all men without exception to be saved
and yet they are not, but only the Portion that He has Chosen!

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began



You have not been chosen in Christ, nor do you have the Holy Spirit.


How God has fulfilled His Will and Purpose in my life should be of no concern to you whatever.

Be concerned for yourself!




Those that have the Holy Spirit magnify Christ and his Gospel.


They certainly do, but because of your spiritual blindness 2 Cor. 4:3-4, and rebellion against the true Gospel of God's Grace,
you lack the ability to recognize what magnifying Christ and His Gospel actually entails.


The Truths of TULIP is the Gospel:

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Preservation of the Saints

~~~~~

Bright Raven
December 5th, 2015, 04:17 PM
Who are you to judge the God?

Rom. 9:20-23
v.20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
v.21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel
unto honour, and another unto dishonour? v.22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath,
and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
v.23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.


These verses prove that man does not have a free will;
but that it is God's Will which is the determining factor
to perform whatever He so Desires.


Dan. 4:35
And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will
in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand,
or say unto him, What doest thou?

Job 23:13-14
v.13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
v.14 For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.

Is. 46:10
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done,
saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure



Also, it is obvious from these scriptures that God does not desire all men without exception to be saved
and yet they are not, but only the Portion that He has Chosen!

2 Tim. 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works,
but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began





How God has fulfilled His Will and Purpose in my life should be of no concern to you whatever.

Be concerned for yourself!





They certainly do, but because of your spiritual blindness 2 Cor. 4:3-4, and rebellion against the true Gospel of God's Grace,
you lack the ability to recognize what magnifying Christ and His Gospel actually entails.


The Truths of TULIP is the Gospel:

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Preservation of the Saints

~~~~~


Luke 6:42-44 New King James Version (NKJV)

42 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother’s eye.
43 “For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit.
44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.

Robert Pate
December 5th, 2015, 06:56 PM
Nanja.

I have the same question for you that I asked of MR.

If God has ALREADY reconciled us (humanity) and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ as it is taught in 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19 and also in Colossians 1:20-22, then what good is your Calvinist religion?

If you refuse to answer this simple question, my next thread will be... "Questions That Calvinist Cannot Answer".

Nanja
December 5th, 2015, 07:17 PM
Nanja.

I have the same question for you that I asked of MR.

If God has ALREADY reconciled us (humanity) and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ as it is taught in 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19 and also in Clossians 1:20-22, then what good is your Calvinist religion?

If you refuse to answer this simple question, my next thread will be... "Questions That Calvinist Cannot Answer".


All for whom Christ died, His Sheep, they are without sin.
For God does not charge / impute their sins to them
but to their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22, Christ Jesus.
They are the only portion of humanity which was reconciled to God.

Is. 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Heb. 13:20-21
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
v.21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is
wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 6th, 2015, 08:22 AM
The fact remains. You believe that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending multitudes to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam.

You avoid scripture that teaches God is just, merciful and righteous.

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

It is beyond your twisted comprehension that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has made a way for... "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13.








Belief of the Truth is a Fruit of the Holy Spirit Given to only God's Elect,
chosen In Union with Christ before the world began 2 Thes. 2:13-14; Eph. 1:3-5; 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 6th, 2015, 08:23 AM
Belief of the Truth is a Fruit of the Holy Spirit Given to only God's Elect,
chosen In Union with Christ before the world began 2 Thes. 2:13-14; Eph. 1:3-5; 2 Tim. 1:9.

~~~~~

That is Right !

beloved57
December 6th, 2015, 08:26 AM
Thanks, my physical recovery will be slow.








I hope you get to feeling better soon.








If God only provides salvation for some and not all, 1 John 2:2.

Then you have an unjust God that cannot be trusted.

You have not been chosen in Christ, nor do you have the Holy Spirit.

Those that have the Holy Spirit magnify Christ and his Gospel.
Calling God Unjust ! Blasphemy !

beloved57
December 6th, 2015, 08:28 AM
The fact remains. You believe that God is an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending multitudes to hell for no reason other than they were born after Adam.

You avoid scripture that teaches God is just, merciful and righteous.

The Gospel is the good news that Jesus has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

It is beyond your twisted comprehension that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has made a way for... "Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord to be saved" Romans 10:13.

Blasphemy of God calling Him Unjust !

Robert Pate
December 6th, 2015, 08:50 AM
All for whom Christ died, His Sheep, they are without sin.
For God does not charge / impute their sins to them
but to their Covenant Head and Surety Heb. 7:22, Christ Jesus.
They are the only portion of humanity which was reconciled to God.

Is. 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Heb. 13:20-21
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus,
that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
v.21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is
wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

~~~~~


Just as I suspected.

You cannot answer the question. You continue to attack God's word by teaching that Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world.

if Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world then Jesus is NOT Lord. 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14.

Your teaching is anti-Gospel, anti-Bible, anti-Christ. You are not a Christian, nor do you have the Holy Spirit

Robert Pate
December 6th, 2015, 08:53 AM
Calling God Unjust ! Blasphemy !

Your Calvinist God is not only unjust, he is also an unmerciful tyrant.

It is not possible for you to be saved by faith in this kind of a God.

beloved57
December 6th, 2015, 09:19 AM
Your Calvinist God is not only unjust, he is also an unmerciful tyrant.

It is not possible for you to be saved by faith in this kind of a God.

More blasphemy and calling God Unjust !

Robert Pate
December 6th, 2015, 11:41 AM
More blasphemy and calling God Unjust !

No, calling your Calvinist God that is not the God of the bible unjust.

beloved57
December 6th, 2015, 02:40 PM
No, calling your Calvinist God that is not the God of the bible unjust.

You are Calling the True God Unjust !

lifeisgood
December 6th, 2015, 02:50 PM
You are Calling the True God Unjust !

Have you ever answered Tambora:
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?

or

do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?

Robert Pate
December 7th, 2015, 09:02 AM
Have you ever answered Tambora:
Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?

or

do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?

Calvinist tell their children... "I hope that you are one of the lucky ones my little darling, otherwise, it will be hell for you".

Nanja
December 7th, 2015, 03:49 PM
Calvinist tell their children... "I hope that you are one of the lucky ones my little darling, otherwise, it will be hell for you".


Actually, you are blaspheming God and His Sovereignty, to do according to His Will
and Purpose Eph. 1:4-5, that which He so Desires Job 23:13 over all His Creation Dan. 4:35; Is. 46:10.
How? By disrespectfully referring to His Unconditional Election of Grace Rom. 11:5: Rom. 8:33, 9:11 as being mere luck!

Woe unto you!

~~~~~

beloved57
December 7th, 2015, 11:21 PM
Actually, you are blaspheming God and His Sovereignty, to do according to His Will
and Purpose Eph. 1:4-5, that which He so Desires Job 23:13 over all His Creation Dan. 4:35; Is. 46:10.
How? By disrespectfully referring to His Unconditional Election of Grace Rom. 11:5: Rom. 8:33, 9:11 as being mere luck!

Woe unto you!

~~~~~

Amen , he shows nothing but contempt for God !

Nanja
December 8th, 2015, 05:53 AM
Amen , he shows nothing but contempt for God !


That's right!

We shall see him at the Judgment 1 Cor. 6:2; Ps. 149:5-9!

~~~~~

beloved57
December 8th, 2015, 06:10 AM
That's right!

We shall see him at the Judgment 1 Cor. 6:2; Ps. 149:5-9!

~~~~~

:-) Sure you right !

Robert Pate
December 8th, 2015, 08:26 AM
That's right!

We shall see him at the Judgment 1 Cor. 6:2; Ps. 149:5-9!

~~~~~


You are living under the false pretense that you are saved.

No one will be saved that is not found to be "In Christ".

You are not there. You are in John Calvin the heretic.

Nanja
December 8th, 2015, 09:16 AM
You are living under the false pretense that you are saved.

No one will be saved that is not found to be "In Christ".

You are not there. You are in John Calvin the heretic.


Thus speaketh a lost man 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV who turns the Gospel of God's Grace into lasciviousness Jude 1:4 KJV!

~~~~~

Robert Pate
December 8th, 2015, 09:56 AM
Thus speaketh a lost man 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV who turns the Gospel of God's Grace into lasciviousness Jude 1:4 KJV!

~~~~~

Renounce your Calvinist religion and trust in Christ alone or you will perish.

jamie
December 8th, 2015, 10:37 AM
Robert, why the senseless diatribe against the faith of others?

Is it a manifestation of arrogance?

Robert Pate
December 8th, 2015, 01:30 PM
Robert, why the senseless diatribe against the faith of others?

Is it a manifestation of arrogance?

Do you believe that faith in the writings of a heretic will save.

There is no saving faith in Calvinism.

To believe in Calvinism is to believe that God is unjust. If you believe that God is unjust how can you trust in him?

jamie
December 8th, 2015, 01:39 PM
Do you believe that faith in the writings of a heretic will save.


I believe God will call whom he chooses and give those he calls to Christ who will then work with them.

What can we do to help others? Peter said, "always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear..." (1 Peter 3:15 NKJV

God has proven to be quite capable of doing the salvation thing long before we were born.

Robert Pate
December 8th, 2015, 03:18 PM
I believe God will call whom he chooses and give those he calls to Christ who will then work with them.

What can we do to help others? Peter said, "always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear..." (1 Peter 3:15 NKJV

God has proven to be quite capable of doing the salvation thing long before we were born.


You sound like a Calvinist.

God has chosen all of humanity in Jesus Christ. So that now..."Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus. 1 John 2:2.

beloved57
December 8th, 2015, 06:05 PM
You sound like a Calvinist.

God has chosen all of humanity in Jesus Christ. So that now..."Whosoever that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

Salvation has been provided for all by the doing and the dying of Jesus. 1 John 2:2.

Invalid comments ! Lies not supported by scriptures !

beloved57
December 8th, 2015, 06:06 PM
Do you believe that faith in the writings of a heretic will save.

There is no saving faith in Calvinism.

To believe in Calvinism is to believe that God is unjust. If you believe that God is unjust how can you trust in him?

Calvinism is the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ !

Nanja
December 8th, 2015, 06:09 PM
Calvinism is the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ !


Absolutely!

~~~~~

Bright Raven
December 8th, 2015, 06:20 PM
Absolutely!

~~~~~

Tulip is not the Gospel. This is the Gospel;

1 Corinthians 15:1-4New King James Version (NKJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Nanja
December 8th, 2015, 06:32 PM
Tulip is not the Gospel. This is the Gospel;

1 Corinthians 15:1-4New King James Version (NKJV)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,


A person cannot receive, believe or do anything else that pleases God
unless he/she is first Given Spiritual Life Rom. 8:7-8; John 3:27!

~~~~~

Bright Raven
December 8th, 2015, 06:46 PM
A person cannot receive, believe or do anything else that pleases God
unless he/she is first Given Spiritual Life Rom. 8:7-8; John 3:27!

~~~~~

Paul's Gospel is given by biblical revelation tulip is not.

Galatians 1:11-12New King James Version (NKJV)

11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Robert Pate
December 8th, 2015, 08:03 PM
A person cannot receive, believe or do anything else that pleases God
unless he/she is first Given Spiritual Life Rom. 8:7-8; John 3:27!

~~~~~

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Not Calvinism.

beloved57
December 8th, 2015, 08:03 PM
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. Not Calvinism.

Calvinism is the Gospel, and you dont believe it !

beloved57
December 8th, 2015, 08:04 PM
A person cannot receive, believe or do anything else that pleases God
unless he/she is first Given Spiritual Life Rom. 8:7-8; John 3:27!

~~~~~

He doesnt believe that passage anyway, all he can do is quote it in ignorance !

Bright Raven
December 8th, 2015, 08:05 PM
Calvinism is the Gospel, and you dont believe it !

No, I do not believe tulip. It is not the Gospel.

Robert Pate
December 9th, 2015, 11:26 AM
No, I do not believe tulip. It is not the Gospel.


Calvinism is a perversion of the nature and character of God.

No one will be saved that does not have faith in God and in his Son Jesus Christ.

To embrace Calvinism is to committ spiritual suicide.

Nick M
December 9th, 2015, 11:29 AM
Calvinism is a perversion of the nature and character of God.

From what I have read on TOL, this is correct. They claim they do not believe. They claim they were converted and made to believe. The do not preach the cross. According to Paul, they are going to hell. They are perishing. They think they were chosen first, therefore the cross is of no effect.

I don't see Calvinism and Open Theism as debate points. Calvinism and the good news of the cross are debate points.

Nick M
December 9th, 2015, 11:30 AM
A person cannot receive, believe or do anything else that pleases God
unless he/she is first Given Spiritual Life Rom. 8:7-8; John 3:27!

~~~~~

See. I told you so.

beloved57
December 9th, 2015, 11:38 AM
See. I told you so.

She is correct !

Robert Pate
December 9th, 2015, 02:30 PM
See. I told you so.


Some how, some where, you get zapped with the Holy Spirit.

Robert Pate
December 10th, 2015, 10:58 AM
What is the condition for getting zapped with the Holy Spirit.

Calvinist don't seem to be very clear on this.

Paul says that we receive the Holy Spirit by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

And then again he says that faith comes by hearing the word of God (the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

beloved57
December 14th, 2015, 03:28 AM
What is the condition for getting zapped with the Holy Spirit.

Calvinist don't seem to be very clear on this.

Paul says that we receive the Holy Spirit by hearing and believing the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.

And then again he says that faith comes by hearing the word of God (the Gospel) Romans 10:17.

Everyone Christ died for are made alive spiritually by the Spirit, because the Spirit is life, and it proves that Christ abolished their death !

Robert Pate
December 14th, 2015, 11:41 AM
Everyone Christ died for are made alive spiritually by the Spirit, because the Spirit is life, and it proves that Christ abolished their death !

Then everyone is saved because Jesus died for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Or maybe you think that John is a liar.

beloved57
December 14th, 2015, 11:46 AM
Then everyone is saved because Jesus died for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Or maybe you think that John is a liar.

The world is the Elect World Israel ! Who is it promised that Jesus shall Save Matt 1:21 ?

Robert Pate
December 15th, 2015, 01:01 PM
The world is the Elect World Israel ! Who is it promised that Jesus shall Save Matt 1:21 ?

The phrase "Elect world" is not in the Bible.

beloved57
December 15th, 2015, 01:26 PM
The phrase "Elect world" is not in the Bible.

Does not have to be, God promised to Save only one World Israel Isa 45:17, that is God's Elect and it is a World !

lifeisgood
December 15th, 2015, 01:30 PM
Does not have to be, God promised to Save only one World Israel Isa 45:17, that is God's Elect and it is a World !

I would assume you are excluding yourself from Isa. 45:17 as you are not, if I am not mistaken, from the Jewish lineage.

beloved57
December 15th, 2015, 02:07 PM
I would assume you are excluding yourself from Isa. 45:17 as you are not, if I am not mistaken, from the Jewish lineage.

That Israel has nothing to do with ethnic jewish lineage , no more than it does any other ethnicity !

Sounds like you believe in a god that promised to save people based upon their ethnicity the flesh, that makes your god a respector of persons !

Robert Pate
December 15th, 2015, 03:12 PM
That Israel has nothing to do with ethnic jewish lineage , no more than it does any other ethnicity !

Sounds like you believe in a god that promised to save people based upon their ethnicity the flesh, that makes your god a respector of persons !

No one believes more in a God that is a respector of persons than you do.

beloved57
December 15th, 2015, 03:13 PM
No one believes more in a God that is a respector of persons than you do.

That is you !

Robert Pate
December 15th, 2015, 05:47 PM
That is you !


Answer this. Where does it say that Adam lost his free will in the fall?

OCTOBER23
December 15th, 2015, 06:09 PM
ROBERT PATE'

If God does NOT Predestinate a Group of People for a specific cause

Then please explain these verses :

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation,

a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him

who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias,

to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just;

to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,

I also will keep thee from the time of Testing,

that shall come upon all the world, to test the faith of them that dwell upon the earth.

lifeisgood
December 15th, 2015, 08:09 PM
ROBERT PATE'

If God does NOT Predestinate a Group of People for a specific cause

Then please explain these verses :

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation,

a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him

who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias,

to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just;

to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,

I also will keep thee from the time of Testing,

that shall come upon all the world, to test the faith of them that dwell upon the earth.

What is PREDESTINED is not the people.
What is PREDESTINED is God's plan.

God's PREDESTINED plan has come into the world.

Those who agree with God, He will graft into His PREDESTINED plan.

lifeisgood
December 15th, 2015, 08:12 PM
That Israel has nothing to do with ethnic jewish lineage , no more than it does any other ethnicity !

Sounds like you believe in a god that promised to save people based upon their ethnicity the flesh, that makes your god a respector of persons !

Have you ever answered Tambora's question:

Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?

Or

do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?

beloved57
December 15th, 2015, 09:34 PM
Answer this. Where does it say that Adam lost his free will in the fall?

What scripture says Adam had a freewill ? I have been asking for years here for anyone to show me one scripture that says man has a freewill , and no one has done it ! It is a myth !

Robert Pate
December 16th, 2015, 02:46 PM
What scripture says Adam had a freewill ? I have been asking for years here for anyone to show me one scripture that says man has a freewill , and no one has done it ! It is a myth !

If you can sin against God then you have a free will. Plain and simple.

God did not create a robot when he created Adam.

Bright Raven
December 16th, 2015, 02:47 PM
B57 is a TULIP robot.

beloved57
December 16th, 2015, 02:49 PM
If you can sin against God then you have a free will. Plain and simple.

God did not create a robot when he created Adam.

What scripture says that Adam had a freewill, or anyone for that matter !

Robert Pate
December 16th, 2015, 02:52 PM
What scripture says that Adam had a freewill, or anyone for that matter !

It is so obvious and so much a matter of fact that God didn't think that anyone would ever need a scripture.

iouae
December 16th, 2015, 02:52 PM
What scripture says Adam had a freewill ? I have been asking for years here for anyone to show me one scripture that says man has a freewill , and no one has done it ! It is a myth !

Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

Robert Pate
December 16th, 2015, 02:54 PM
Deuteronomy 30:19 [Full Chapter]
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

Good scripture, but he won't believe it.

beloved57
December 16th, 2015, 03:01 PM
It is so obvious and so much a matter of fact that God didn't think that anyone would ever need a scripture.

So you don't have a scripture, that makes your comments invalid !

beloved57
December 16th, 2015, 03:02 PM
Deuteronomy 30:19
This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live

That scripture says nothing about man having a freewill !

Robert Pate
December 16th, 2015, 03:06 PM
That scripture says nothing about man having a freewill !


Just like I said, "He won't believe it".

Instead he wants to believe in the writings of a heretick.

jgarden
December 16th, 2015, 03:10 PM
An omnipotent God would know as to how different individuals will exercise their freewill which could be interpreted as predestination.

This does not, however, negate an individual's ability to exercise his/her freewill to make a decision concerning salvation.

Robert Pate
December 16th, 2015, 03:13 PM
An omnipotent God would know as to how different individuals will exercise their freewill which could be interpreted as predestination.

This does not, however, negate an individual's ability to exercise his/her freewill to make a decision concerning salvation.


This is why the scripture says...

"Chose this day whom you will serve"

beloved57
December 16th, 2015, 03:27 PM
Just like I said, "He won't believe it".

Instead he wants to believe in the writings of a heretick.

Show me a scripture I will believe it !

beloved57
December 16th, 2015, 03:28 PM
This is why the scripture says...

"Chose this day whom you will serve"

That scripture doesn't say man has a freewill !

jamie
December 16th, 2015, 03:29 PM
When Jesus was human he had a will but yielded his will to the Father's will.


Father, if it is Your will take this cup away from Me, nevertheless not My will, but Yours be done. (Luke 22:42 NKJV)

Dialogos
December 16th, 2015, 03:33 PM
Robert Pate said:


We (the whole world) was predestinated to be "In Christ" before the foundation of the world.


:nono:

This is what a theological train wreck looks like folks....

Robert Pate
December 16th, 2015, 04:54 PM
Robert Pate said:


:nono:

This is what a theological train wreck looks like folks....

You are a rejector of the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Jesus has provided salvation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2, but you don't want it.

beloved57
December 16th, 2015, 05:00 PM
You are a rejector of the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Jesus has provided salvation for the whole world, 1 John 2:2, but you don't want it.

You don't believe not one of those scriptures !

Robert Pate
December 16th, 2015, 05:05 PM
You don't believe not one of those scriptures !

You say some pretty stupid things.

You are always telling people what they believe or don't believe.

Like you are some kind of a mind reader.

beloved57
December 16th, 2015, 05:06 PM
You say some pretty stupid things.

You are always telling people what they believe or don't believe.

Like you are some kind of a mind reader.

You don't believe them, you just quote them lol !

Robert Pate
December 16th, 2015, 05:11 PM
You don't believe them, you just quote them lol !

More stupid replies.

Nanja
December 16th, 2015, 06:15 PM
More stupid replies.


You have zero understanding of the scriptures because you are a lost man 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV!

~~~~~

lifeisgood
December 17th, 2015, 09:31 AM
You say some pretty stupid things.

You are always telling people what they believe or don't believe.

Like you are some kind of a mind reader.

Maybe God is no longer sitting in His throne and other has taken His place. :nono:

Robert Pate
December 17th, 2015, 10:06 AM
Maybe God is no longer sitting in His throne and other has taken His place. :nono:

He thinks that he is God, telling people what they believe or don't believe.

beloved57
December 17th, 2015, 10:47 AM
You have zero understanding of the scriptures because you are a lost man 2 Cor. 4:3-4 KJV!

~~~~~

That is True !

Robert Pate
December 17th, 2015, 11:02 AM
That is True !


Why don't you work at saying something worth while.

False Prophet
December 17th, 2015, 11:13 AM
We should be holy and without blame before him in love. The goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart. Like the holy one we should holy in all, all, all of our conduct. Who shall stand in the presence of the Lord accept he who has clean hands and a pure heart. Jesus is coming back for a church without spot, blemish, or wrinkle. Behold I am coming quickly my reward is with me to render to everybody according to what he has done.
3 But there must be no sexual sin among you, or any kind of evil or greed. Those things are not right for God’s holy people. 4 Also, there must be no evil talk among you, and you must not speak foolishly or tell evil jokes. These things are not right for you. Instead, you should be giving thanks to God. 5 You can be sure of this: No one will have a place in the kingdom of Christ and of God who sins sexually, or does evil things, or is greedy. Anyone who is greedy is serving a false god. Eph 5
Such doctrines that give a false security to the harlot christian are devil inspired teachings that do not conform us to godliness.

beloved57
December 17th, 2015, 11:25 AM
We should be holy and without blame before him in love. The goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart. Like the holy one we should holy in all, all, all of our conduct. Who shall stand in the presence of the Lord accept he who has clean hands and a pure heart. Jesus is coming back for a church without spot, blemish, or wrinkle. Behold I am coming quickly my reward is with me to render to everybody according to what he has done.
3 But there must be no sexual sin among you, or any kind of evil or greed. Those things are not right for God’s holy people. 4 Also, there must be no evil talk among you, and you must not speak foolishly or tell evil jokes. These things are not right for you. Instead, you should be giving thanks to God. 5 You can be sure of this: No one will have a place in the kingdom of Christ and of God who sins sexually, or does evil things, or is greedy. Anyone who is greedy is serving a false god. Eph 5
Such doctrines that give a false security to the harlot christian are devil inspired teachings that do not conform us to godliness.

Those Christ died for are Holy and Without blame before God, His One Offering Perfected them forever Heb 10:14 !

beloved57
December 17th, 2015, 11:26 AM
Why don't you work at saying something worth while.

Like you don't believe the Gospel ?

Robert Pate
December 17th, 2015, 01:35 PM
We should be holy and without blame before him in love. The goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart. Like the holy one we should holy in all, all, all of our conduct. Who shall stand in the presence of the Lord accept he who has clean hands and a pure heart. Jesus is coming back for a church without spot, blemish, or wrinkle. Behold I am coming quickly my reward is with me to render to everybody according to what he has done.
3 But there must be no sexual sin among you, or any kind of evil or greed. Those things are not right for God’s holy people. 4 Also, there must be no evil talk among you, and you must not speak foolishly or tell evil jokes. These things are not right for you. Instead, you should be giving thanks to God. 5 You can be sure of this: No one will have a place in the kingdom of Christ and of God who sins sexually, or does evil things, or is greedy. Anyone who is greedy is serving a false god. Eph 5
Such doctrines that give a false security to the harlot christian are devil inspired teachings that do not conform us to godliness.


To be "Holy and without blame before him in love" means that you are "In Christ". It is Christ that makes us "Holy and without blame before him in love".

Nanja
December 17th, 2015, 04:02 PM
To be "Holy and without blame before him in love" means that you are "In Christ". It is Christ that makes us "Holy and without blame before him in love".


Only the portion of humanity, The Sheep, which were Chosen in Union with Christ
and predestinated to the Adoption of Sons, before the foundation of world,
are holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:3-5.

However, the rest of mankind are tares which the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38-39;
the cursed goats, which are destined to be cast into the lake of fire Mat. 25:33, 41; Rev. 21:8.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
December 17th, 2015, 04:08 PM
Only the portion of humanity, The Sheep, which were Chosen in Union with Christ
and predestinated to the Adoption of Sons, before the foundation of world,
are holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:3-5.

However, the rest of mankind are tares which the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38-39;
the cursed goats, which are destined to be cast into the lake of fire Mat. 25:33, 41; Rev. 21:8.

~~~~~

How are you holy and without blame before him in love?

Nanja
December 17th, 2015, 04:38 PM
How are you holy and without blame before him in love?

Nanja


Only the portion of humanity, The Sheep, which were Chosen in Union with Christ
and predestinated to the Adoption of Sons, before the foundation of world,
are holy and without blame before Him in Love Eph. 1:3-5.

However, the rest of mankind are tares which the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38-39;
the cursed goats, which are destined to be cast into the lake of fire Mat. 25:33, 41; Rev. 21:8.

~~~~~

beloved57
December 17th, 2015, 04:42 PM
How are you holy and without blame before him in love?

See my threads, that has been explained already in detail !

Robert Pate
December 18th, 2015, 09:23 AM
Nanja


~~~~~

We are holy and without blame before him in love because of the meritorious work of Christ that was done in our name and on our behalf.

jamie
December 18th, 2015, 09:36 AM
We are holy and without blame before him in love because of the meritorious work of Christ that was done in our name and on our behalf.


Since Jesus said he could do nothing on his own, who really deserves credit for the meritorious work of Christ? Would it be his God?

His God said through him that we should have no God ahead of or over him.

It seems like you do. Give credit where credit is due (to God).

beloved57
December 18th, 2015, 10:54 AM
We are holy and without blame before him in love because of the meritorious work of Christ that was done in our name and on our behalf.

You dont believe in Jesus Christ, you teach that millions upon millions for whom He lived and died shall wind up in the Lake of fire for their sins in unbelief !

beloved57
December 18th, 2015, 10:56 AM
Nanja


~~~~~


However, the rest of mankind are tares which the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38-39;
the cursed goats, which are destined to be cast into the lake of fire Mat. 25:33, 41; Rev. 21:8.

Absolutely, the Vessels of Wrath made for and prepared for destruction Rom 9 !

Nanja
December 18th, 2015, 11:28 AM
Absolutely, the Vessels of Wrath made for and prepared for destruction Rom 9 !


Yep, and they are also the ungodly remnant
now alive being reserved for Judgment Day!

2 Pet. 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished

~~~~~

beloved57
December 18th, 2015, 11:29 AM
Yep, and they are also the ungodly remnant
now alive being reserved for Judgment Day!

2 Pet. 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations,
and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished

~~~~~

Correct !

Robert Pate
December 18th, 2015, 03:34 PM
Since Jesus said he could do nothing on his own, who really deserves credit for the meritorious work of Christ? Would it be his God?

His God said through him that we should have no God ahead of or over him.

It seems like you do. Give credit where credit is due (to God).

Keep in mind that Jesus was both God and man in one person.

He had to be all human to save us. He also had to be all God to save us.

beloved57
December 18th, 2015, 04:07 PM
Keep in mind that Jesus was both God and man in one person.

He had to be all human to save us. He also had to be all God to save us.

You teach that millions for whom He loved and died for to Save, wind up in hell for their sins anyway !

jamie
December 18th, 2015, 04:08 PM
Keep in mind that Jesus was both God and man in one person.

He had to be all human to save us. He also had to be all God to save us.


Jesus asked to be excused, a perfectly human request. Who wants to be beaten and crucified, certainly not Jesus.

Robert Pate
December 18th, 2015, 05:19 PM
Jesus asked to be excused, a perfectly human request. Who wants to be beaten and crucified, certainly not Jesus.


Be thankful that God's judgment fell on Jesus and not you.

beloved57
December 18th, 2015, 05:59 PM
Be thankful that God's judgment fell on Jesus and not you.

You teach that millions for whom Christ died and abolished death for, shall yet wind up in the second death, that is a contradiction!

Bright Raven
December 18th, 2015, 06:03 PM
You teach that millions for whom Christ died and abolished death for, shall yet wind up in the second death, that is a contradiction!

Do I believe Jesus is Lord?

Robert Pate
December 18th, 2015, 08:32 PM
You teach that millions for whom Christ died and abolished death for, shall yet wind up in the second death, that is a contradiction!

You are really confused, but everything will be made clear to you in the judgment.

beloved57
December 18th, 2015, 08:42 PM
You are really confused, but everything will be made clear to you in the judgment.

To say that Christ abolished death for them He died for, and then turn around and teach as you do, that they shall go into the second death, is a contradiction ! :-)

Bright Raven
December 18th, 2015, 08:44 PM
To say that Christ abolished death for them He died for, and then turn around and teach as you do, that they shall go into the second death, is a contradiction ! :-)

the second death is for those who don't accept Jesus sacrifice.