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dialm
July 18th, 2015, 04:17 PM
There are many good reasons. Can you think of any?

Bright Raven
July 18th, 2015, 04:34 PM
Not a one. Work through your problems.

serpentdove
July 18th, 2015, 04:56 PM
There are many good reasons. Can you think of any?

Dennis Prager says marriage is a job :scripto: and that you should be able to be fired from your job :scripto: (17 Jul 15 radio program). Does this help, humanist? Is. 24:5, Ezek. 44:7

Rusha
July 18th, 2015, 05:01 PM
There are many good reasons. Can you think of any?

Adultery and abuse.

serpentdove
July 18th, 2015, 05:05 PM
Adultery and abuse.

...Burning biscuits http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fighting/frying-pan-smash.gif

serpentdove
July 18th, 2015, 05:17 PM
Because your heart is made of stone? :idunno: Mt 3:9, Jn 13:34

http://www.smileys-gratuits.com/smiley-ete/ete-9.gif

Come To The River (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLj2tZCs6Ms) ~ Rhett Walker Band

glassjester
July 18th, 2015, 05:29 PM
There are many good reasons. Can you think of any?

Divorce is a good option to have because the lovey-dovey mood I was in when I got married might not last for more than a few years.

I can't possibly be expected to keep my commitments when I don't feel like it anymore!

serpentdove
July 18th, 2015, 05:42 PM
Divorce is a good option to have because the lovey-dovey mood I was in when I got married might not last for more than a few years.

I can't possibly be expected to keep my commitments when I don't feel like it anymore!
Feelings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUcxCEEuwd0&list=PLjeJHedOFrUg1EhhGDbiC144VyBZwXKbH&index=10) ~ Barbara Streisand & Julio Iglesias 2 Ti 4:10

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/sad/crying-and-sniffling.gif

Bradley D
July 18th, 2015, 05:50 PM
"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery" (Matthew 5:32).

serpentdove
July 18th, 2015, 06:05 PM
"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery" (Matthew 5:32).

Ex. 19:5, Heb 13:4

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSlX3SxcJy6xtZfQ4FWZyHSwlL4Kv-ITbxgN6sVa1BfFNw_Wd0JDT3J1Q

HisServant
July 18th, 2015, 07:54 PM
Not a one. Work through your problems.

Sometimes one partner just walks away with no intention to ever reconcile.

Bright Raven
July 18th, 2015, 08:12 PM
Sometimes one partner just walks away with no intention to ever reconcile.

Yes, sometimes it can't be helped.

keypurr
July 18th, 2015, 08:22 PM
Our honeymoon lasted fifty two years, then she passed.

Buzzword
July 18th, 2015, 09:35 PM
Abuse, malice, manipulation, growing apart instead of growing together, the marriage having been the result of an impulsive, socially pressured, and/or drunken mistake, etc etc.

'Tis a necessary institution.

God's Truth
July 18th, 2015, 10:43 PM
Sometimes one partner just walks away with no intention to ever reconcile.

If you understand though, that even then, you are not to remarry, then maybe you will wait for her to come back, or live as a single person.

Interplanner
July 19th, 2015, 12:23 AM
If you understand though, that even then, you are not to remarry, then maybe you will wait for her to come back, or live as a single person.

There seems to be 1.5 reasons to divorce: adultery and unbelief. The unbelief reason is given as though common sense, but not as something you are entitled to take advantage of. It is I Cor 7: how do you know, spouse, that they will believe?

It certainly doesn't sound like remarriage to divorcees is approved even if there was adultery; but to a never-married or widowed person was allowed, Lk 16.

Divorce with a certificate that entitled the abandoned woman to some property was better than sheer abandonement; that is the only good thing out of that which Jesus mentions in Mt 19, Lev 23. No other law in the ancient near east comes close to that provision.

While Rabbi Shammai (of Jesus era) was usually conservative, he allowed divorce for some trivial reasons. Wives could leave taxidermists/tanners because of the lingering odor of their work. (That is what Jesus seems to be targeting). R. Hillel (the teacher of Gamaliel Acts 5:34) was usually innovative but strict about divorce.

Abuse and injury is its own reason for evasive action.

God's Truth
July 19th, 2015, 06:13 AM
There seems to be 1.5 reasons to divorce: adultery and unbelief.
You are right, we can divorce if our spouse commits adultery. However, I do not see where you get that we can divorce if our spouse is an unbeliever.



The unbelief reason is given as though common sense, but not as something you are entitled to take advantage of. It is I Cor 7: how do you know, spouse, that they will believe?


It certainly doesn't sound like remarriage to divorcees is approved even if there was adultery; but to a never-married or widowed person was allowed, Lk 16.
It is as Jesus' disciples said, it is a hard teaching.


Divorce with a certificate that entitled the abandoned woman to some property was better than sheer abandonement; that is the only good thing out of that which Jesus mentions in Mt 19, Lev 23. No other law in the ancient near east comes close to that provision.

While Rabbi Shammai (of Jesus era) was usually conservative, he allowed divorce for some trivial reasons.
Why do you call him 'Rabbi'? We should be careful about calling someone rabbi, or father.



Wives could leave taxidermists/tanners because of the lingering odor of their work. (That is what Jesus seems to be targeting).
What do you think Jesus was targeting?


R. Hillel (the teacher of Gamaliel Acts 5:34) was usually innovative but strict about divorce.
I am wondering why you give thought to people who rejected Jesus?



Abuse and injury is its own reason for evasive action.

Definitely.

serpentdove
July 19th, 2015, 06:44 AM
Abuse, malice, manipulation, growing apart instead of growing together, the marriage having been the result of an impulsive, socially pressured, and/or drunken mistake, etc etc.

'Tis a necessary institution.

'Tis a covenant. :rolleyes: Ro 1:31 NET

http://vananne.com/serpentdove/drunk_walk-2125.gif Understand the exceeding sinfulness of sin. http://vananne.com/serpentdove/mousy.gif

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

Interplanner
July 19th, 2015, 07:02 AM
You are right, we can divorce if our spouse commits adultery. However, I do not see where you get that we can divorce if our spouse is an unbeliever.

It is as Jesus' disciples said, it is a hard teaching.

Why do you call him 'Rabbi'? We should be careful about calling someone rabbi, or father.

What do you think Jesus was targeting?

I am wondering why you give thought to people who rejected Jesus?


Definitely.



I don't know how to do several parts of a quote, but here goes with titles:

re the unbelieving spouse:
"If the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances... How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband?..." I Cor 7:15

re the rabbi title
I don't call him my rabbi. I was using it in the historical sense, just as if we were talking about a priest in the 3rd century of church history who was known as Father Democraticus, etc.

re targeting:
I said what I though he was targeting. Shammai allowed divorce for trivial reasons. He also taught that remarriage to divorcees was not adultery. Jesus was speaking back about both.

re people who rejected Jesus:
They rejected his claim to be Messiah; they may not have rejected every single teaching bit and piece. Hillel was strict about divorce. Hillel also used a 'golden rule' saying that was in negative form. "Do not do anything to a neighbor that you would not want done to yourself."

Bradley D
July 19th, 2015, 10:02 PM
Ex. 19:5, Heb 13:4

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSlX3SxcJy6xtZfQ4FWZyHSwlL4Kv-ITbxgN6sVa1BfFNw_Wd0JDT3J1Q

True!

Bradley D
July 19th, 2015, 10:21 PM
You are right, we can divorce if our spouse commits adultery. However, I do not see where you get that we can divorce if our spouse is an unbeliever.

Only if the unbelieving spouse wants to leave. The believer is no longer under commitment to the unbelieving spouse. "…For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?" (1 Cor. 7:14-16). That can be seen as a divorce. I would say that the believer may marry again. But only to a believer. "A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.…" (1 Cor. 7:39)

God's Truth
July 19th, 2015, 10:39 PM
I don't know how to do several parts of a quote, but here goes with titles:

When you want to separate the quotes there has to be brackets '[ ]' before the sentence with the word QUOTE in capital letters inside the brackets, and after the sentence there has to be brackets '[ ]' with a slash '/' before the word QUOTE.
I hope that helps.



re the unbelieving spouse:
"If the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances... How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband?..." I Cor 7:15

That scripture says if the unbeliever leaves. It is clear the decision to leave is the decision of the unbeliever, not the believer's decision. However, in the case of adultery, divorce can be the decision of the believer.



re the rabbi title
I don't call him my rabbi. I was using it in the historical sense, just as if we were talking about a priest in the 3rd century of church history who was known as Father Democraticus, etc.

I think we should still be careful not to call anyone rabbi or father.



re targeting:
I said what I though he was targeting. Shammai allowed divorce for trivial reasons. He also taught that remarriage to divorcees was not adultery. Jesus was speaking back about both.

re people who rejected Jesus:
They rejected his claim to be Messiah; they may not have rejected every single teaching bit and piece. Hillel was strict about divorce. Hillel also used a 'golden rule' saying that was in negative form. "Do not do anything to a neighbor that you would not want done to yourself."

If they reject Jesus they reject God.

Luke 10:16 "Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."

God's Truth
July 19th, 2015, 10:44 PM
Only if the unbelieving spouse wants to leave. The believer is no longer under commitment to the unbelieving spouse. "…For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave; the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases, but God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?" (1 Cor. 7:14-16). That can be seen as a divorce. I would say that the believer may marry again. But only to a believer. "A wife is bound as long as her husband lives; but if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.…" (1 Cor. 7:39)

I used to believe that a believer could remarry if a spouse is the one who did the divorcing, or the adultery; however, I used to just believe what I was told and did not study about it for myself. After studying this for myself I see that we are to marry only once.

serpentdove
July 19th, 2015, 10:49 PM
True!


When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee and it would be sin in thee.

But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee [Deut. 23:21–22].

"A vow to the Lord was a voluntary act. No one was required to take a vow. However, once a person had made a vow to the Lord, that vow was absolutely binding, as we have mentioned before." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Law (Deuteronomy) (electronic ed., Vol. 9, p. 149). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

wzqbqDW9z6E

dialm
July 20th, 2015, 06:08 AM
Not a one. Work through your problems.

Thanks but I don't have any problems. You may have some but I'm not for sure yet. Have you not read where the Earth was void and without form? Don't you think that a good marriage could be stricken and laid waste? God creates out of nothing. God creates out of chaos.

The divorce rate is going up. If this pattern continues there will be utter chaos. What do you suppose will be Gods answer to utter marriage chaos if it takes place Bright Raven?

Interplanner
July 20th, 2015, 06:17 AM
When you want to separate the quotes there has to be brackets '[ ]' before the sentence with the word QUOTE in capital letters inside the brackets, and after the sentence there has to be brackets '[ ]' with a slash '/' before the word QUOTE.
I hope that helps.


That scripture says if the unbeliever leaves. It is clear the decision to leave is the decision of the unbeliever, not the believer's decision. However, in the case of adultery, divorce can be the decision of the believer.



I think we should still be careful not to call anyone rabbi or father.



If they reject Jesus they reject God.

Luke 10:16 "Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."



When he said that in Lk 10, he was on a certain topic. Other people/teachers of the day commented on divorce and some were closer or farther to Jesus on this topic.

re the unbeliever's departure. That's why I call it a half-reason. There can be a divorce if they decide to leave.

Interplanner
July 20th, 2015, 06:23 AM
re the OP,
it is not healthy to take an exception to what God has ordained, and that is for miserable reasons, and make it an ideal. Almost all divorcing Christians I have met have had a fundamental misunderstanding of forgiveness or unwillingness about it, or
have been willfully ignorant of good help, or
have engaged in time-warp tricks ("If I thought they were going to be like this 10 years ago, I never would have married them"--which is the height of dishonesty and irresponsibility).

And then there is the conditional love people. I agree that both parties need to put in, need to give and not just expect to get, but I know just as many where the person claiming that the other is not giving has changed the standards on their spouse. Ie, they are actually hidden conditional love people. They hide or hold on to a condition, and then bring it out to justify leaving or otherwise demeaning their spouse.

dialm
July 20th, 2015, 07:04 AM
We are not to have hate in our hearts. Better to love everyone and everything. I'm going to love my neighbor. My neighbor is everyone because everyone is in need. Everything that happens is a test.

I want to pass the test Teacher. I want You to tell me

'Well done'

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 08:09 AM
"Only if the unbelieving spouse wants to leave. The believer is no longer under commitment to the unbelieving spouse."
Marriage is dissolved by death (Rom. 7:2, 3).

"…I would say that the believer may marry again."
That would make them an adulterer (Lk 16:18).

"...if her husband is dead, she is free to be married to whom she wishes, only in the Lord.…" (1 Cor. 7:39) The rest of the verse reads: But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my judgment (1 Co 7:40). If she is found in the Lord marriage has already served its purpose (Is. 54:5, Eph. 5:23–32).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 08:16 AM
...The divorce rate is going up. If this pattern continues there will be utter chaos...

That's what one Satanist prays for (Heb 13:4). :idunno:

See:

Your Most Strategic Investment (http://www.harvestdenver.org/sermons/your-most-strategic-investment-071915)by Daniel Henderson

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 08:55 AM
If you understand though, that even then, you are not to remarry, then maybe you will wait for her to come back, or live as a single person.

I let her go as scriptures require and gave her a bill of divorce... scripture say that I am no longer bound to her and may do as I please.

I stayed single for 9 years after she left.. never divorce and never looked to remarry.

Then God brought someone into my life... I've had the happiest 7 years of my life being married to her. To think God did not have his hand in us meeting and has not blessed us is to be ignorant.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 08:57 AM
When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee and it would be sin in thee.

But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in thee [Deut. 23:21–22].

"A vow to the Lord was a voluntary act. No one was required to take a vow. However, once a person had made a vow to the Lord, that vow was absolutely binding, as we have mentioned before." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Law (Deuteronomy) (electronic ed., Vol. 9, p. 149). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

wzqbqDW9z6E

Christians are NOT to make Vows... which renders wedding vows to be an act of sin. Hence, I did not make any vows, all we did was sign the paperwork in front of witnesses... to satisfy the legal requirements for a marriage license.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:00 AM
Marriage is dissolved by death (Rom. 7:2, 3).

That would make them an adulterer (Lk 16:18).
The rest of the verse reads: But she is happier if she remains as she is, according to my judgment (1 Co 7:40). If she is found in the Lord marriage has already served its purpose (Is. 54:5, Eph. 5:23–32).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper


I just hope that someday you are bound by the same chains that you are so intent on putting others in.

People make mistakes... Jesus knew that.

The other problem is you are taking snippets of scripture out of the context and culture of what marriage meant to the intended audience and trying to apply them to today's marriage.

Its a huge error in teaching and you will all be held accountable for it someday... and it wont be pretty.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 09:01 AM
I let her go as scriptures require and gave her a bill of divorce... scripture say that I am no longer bound to her and may do as I please.

Is that the law of His Servant? :Shimei: Cite the scripture that tells you to put your wife away.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:04 AM
Is that the law of His Servant? :Shemie: Cite the scripture that tells you to put your wife away.

I did not put away my wife... she left of her own accord. It was only after 5 years of her being unrepentant and unwilling to reconcile that i granted her the divorce she wanted.



15But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?


I am no longer bound to her... I should have actually granted her the divorce the first time she asked for one.

God has called us to peace... how can you reconcile your views of scripture that would permanently bind someone to a marriage of strife and loneliness?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 09:04 AM
I let her go as scriptures require and gave her a bill of divorce... scripture say that I am no longer bound to her and may do as I please.
Scripture does not say you can do as you please.



I stayed single for 9 years after she left.. never divorce and never looked to remarry.

Then God brought someone into my life... I've had the happiest 7 years of my life being married to her. To think God did not have his hand in us meeting and has not blessed us is to be ignorant.

It is a hard teaching, but it is the truth. Why else do you think Jesus' disciples said it is a hard teaching?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 09:06 AM
Christians are NOT to make Vows... which renders wedding vows to be an act of sin. Hence, I did not make any vows, all we did was sign the paperwork in front of witnesses... to satisfy the legal requirements for a marriage license.

The act of getting married is a vow, even without the written words.

Water baptism is a vow too.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:08 AM
Scripture does not say you can do as you please.



It is a hard teaching, but it is the truth. Why else do you think Jesus' disciples said it is a hard teaching?

Because they were used to taking a new wife whenever they wanted without properly ending the previous marriage. There were women all over the place back then that were technically married, but not supported by their husbands and with no dowry to remarry.... because men were using marriage as a way to accumulate vast illgotten fortunes.

Basically, Jesus was using hyperbole to say to them that the exact opposite of what they were doing was just as lawful.

Anyhow... you really should keep your mouth shut unless you have actually spent time studying the context and culture of who Jesus was talking to and why.

Anyhow, I don't need anyones approval from this site... as the vast majority of the people here can be demonstrated to be idiots.... like you. You seem to be just about as smart as a box of rocks.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:09 AM
The act of getting married is a vow, even without the written words.

Water baptism is a vow too.

Water baptism isn't for today either....

It seems you are stuck in an alternate reality... a cult.

Nick M
July 20th, 2015, 09:09 AM
Not a one. Work through your problems.

Adultery is one good reason.

Nick M
July 20th, 2015, 09:10 AM
Adultery and abuse.

Sodomy, consenting or not, is abuse.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 09:12 AM
Because they were used to taking a new wife whenever they wanted without properly ending the previous marriage. There were women all over the place back then that were technically married, but not supported by their husbands and with no dowry to remarry.... because men were using marriage as a way to accumulate vast illgotten fortunes.

Basically, Jesus was using hyperbole to say to them that the exact opposite of what they were doing was just as lawful.
Jesus did not speak in hyperbole. Jesus spoke Truth.




Anyhow... you really should keep your mouth shut unless you have actually spent time studying the context and culture of who Jesus was talking to and why.

You are resorting to violence to support your false beliefs. Funny how that goes together.




Anyhow, I don't need anyones approval from this site... as the vast majority of the people here can be demonstrated to be idiots.

I am not telling you to divorce the person you are with now. You can ask for forgiveness from God, and then preach the truth, and the truth is that we are not to remarry.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 09:14 AM
Water baptism isn't for today either....

It seems you are stuck in an alternate reality... a cult.

Water baptism is for today. Jesus' words are for ever.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:18 AM
Water baptism is for today. Jesus' words are for ever.

John the Baptist told you when it was no longer needed... when Christ rose from the dead and people started getting baptized by fire and the holy spirit, water baptism became no longer required.

So no... water baptism is nothing more than a cultist ritual that is no longer required.... I would recommending avoiding getting initiated into a local cult at all costs.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:19 AM
Jesus did not speak in hyperbole. Jesus spoke Truth.



You are resorting to violence to support your false beliefs. Funny how that goes together.



I am not telling you to divorce the person you are with now. You can ask for forgiveness from God, and then preach the truth, and the truth is that we are not to remarry.

Those are they teachings of a cult.... not the true teachings of scripture.

Anyhow, if you really did do your research, you would understand that Jesus' teachings were directed entirely about protecting the women of his day and correcting men's attitudes to treating them with respect instead of property... he was also preaching to unsaved Jews there who were still bound by the Old Testament Covenant.. which Christians of today are not.

So you really need to look into what Jesus said post resurrection along with what the apostles said to understand what applies to Christians.

Anyhow... you need to pray for wisdom.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 09:26 AM
John the Baptist told you when it was no longer needed...
John the Baptizer did no such thing.

You think you know better than the Apostles, including Paul, for they all water baptized.




when Christ rose from the dead and people started getting baptized by fire and the holy spirit, water baptism became no longer required.

John is speaking about the fire those NOT saved will experience.

Immediately after John tells us about Jesus baptizing with fire---he speaks of those not saved being put in the lake of fire.


Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."




So no... water baptism is nothing more than a cultist ritual that is no longer required.... I would recommending avoiding getting initiated into a local cult at all costs.

You can baptize yourself in your own home.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 09:30 AM
Those are they teachings of a cult.... not the true teachings of scripture.

Anyhow, if you really did do your research, you would understand that Jesus' teachings were directed entirely about protecting the women of his day and correcting men's attitudes to treating them with respect instead of property... he was also preaching to unsaved Jews there who were still bound by the Old Testament Covenant.. which Christians of today are not.

So you really need to look into what Jesus said post resurrection along with what the apostles said to understand what applies to Christians.

Anyhow... you need to pray for wisdom.

You do a lousy job trying to do away with God's Word.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:33 AM
John the Baptizer did no such thing.


Yes he did.



You think you know better than the Apostles, including Paul, for they all water baptized.


Paul stopped baptizing because it was being divisive. There is no evidence that he was having someone else baptize for him.




John is speaking about the fire those NOT saved will experience.


That's a far stretch and does not follow the line of thought in that section of scripture.



Immediately after John tells us about Jesus baptizing with fire---he speaks of those not saved being put in the lake of fire.


I disagree.



Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire."


The Holy Spirit baptism is all that is needed today.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 09:37 AM
...I...gave her a bill of divorce...




I did not put away my wife...

Which is it? :smokie:

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 09:37 AM
Yes he did.



Paul stopped baptizing because it was being divisive. There is no evidence that he was having someone else baptize for him.




That's a far stretch and does not follow the line of thought in that section of scripture.



I disagree.



The Holy Spirit baptism is all that is needed today.

You cannot discredit God's Word.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:43 AM
Which is it? :smokie:

If you did your research, you would know that the two things are entirely different.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:46 AM
You cannot discredit God's Word.

I know I cannot... but you are doing a pretty good job of twisting his words and discrediting him.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 09:47 AM
You do a lousy job trying to do away with God's Word.

And you do a horrible job at your feeble attempts to interpret them... devoid of the context and culture of the purpose and time they were written.

Basically, you are a false teacher and we all know it.

Anyhow, its now time for me to take God's word to heart and stop trying to argue with a fool.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 09:55 AM
And you do a horrible job at your feeble attempts to interpret them... devoid of the context and culture of the purpose and time they were written.

Basically, you are a false teacher and we all know it.

Anyhow, its now time for me to take God's word to heart and stop trying to argue with a fool.

...but isn't that what God said in the Old Testament? According to your argument against what Jesus says, you claim it was to different people and a different time. lol

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 10:11 AM
"I just hope that someday you are bound by the same chains that you are so intent on putting others in..." :yawn: Rom. 7:2, 3


"People make mistakes..." One brown sock matched to one blue sock :idunno: putting your wife away Mal 2:14


"...Jesus knew that." It has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery (Mt 5:31–32).


"...The other problem is..." :Popcorn:


"...[Y]ou are taking snippets of scripture out of the context and culture..." :yawn: Mal 2:16


"...[O]f what marriage meant to the intended audience..." Matt. 19:6


"...[A]nd trying to apply them to today's marriage." "Today we have the new morality. It's not new and it's not moral." ~ Adrian Rogers Mt 5:18


"It[']s a huge error in teaching..." Heb 13:4


"...[A]nd you will all be held accountable for it someday..." God's blessing is on covenant-keepers (Ex 19:5). :straight: Covenant-breakers are under God's judgment (Is 24:5, Eze 44:7). :devil:


"...[A]nd it wont be pretty." It won't (Isa 5:20). :burnlib:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 10:12 AM
:yawn: Rom. 7:2, 3

One brown sock matched to one blue sock :idunno: putting your wife away Mal 2:14

It has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery (Mt 5:31–32).

:Popcorn:

:yawn: Mal 2:16

Matt. 19:6

"Today we have the new morality. It's not new and it's not moral." ~ Adrian Rogers Mt 5:18

Heb 13:4

God's blessing is on covenant-keepers (Ex 19:5). :straight: Covenant-breakers are under God's judgment (Is 24:5, Eze 44:7). :banana:

It won't (Isa 5:20). :burnlib:

There is only one word to describe you... EVIL.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 10:58 AM
There is only one word to describe you... EVIL.:yawn:

"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth." ~ Bob Enyart Heb 13:4

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

Nick M
July 20th, 2015, 11:00 AM
:yawn:

"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth." ~ Bob Enyart Heb 13:4

So is being "meanest of the year" many times over. :first:

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 11:21 AM
:yawn:

"Truth is hate to those who hate the truth." ~ Bob Enyart Heb 13:4

And none of that applies to me... so why are you trying to use it like a club?

Swing and a miss.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 11:31 AM
If you did your research, you would know that the two things are entirely different.

:yawn: Did you file for divorce? 1 Co 7:27 NET

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 11:38 AM
And none of that applies to me... so why are you trying to use it like a club?...

Confine your offense to the gospel (Ro 1:16). :peach:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 11:46 AM
So is being "meanest of the year" many times over. :first:
Meanest of the year (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4385927&posted=1#post4385927)Lk 6:22 ISV

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 12:02 PM
Confine your offense to the gospel (Ro 1:16). :peach:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

Not a fan of Piper.. his theology is out in the bushes most of the time.

I think this book is closer to the mark when it comes to marriage... and its written by someone that has spent a lifetime doing christian counseling.

http://www.amazon.com/Marriage-Divorce-Remarriage-Bible-Adams/dp/0310511119

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 12:14 PM
"Not a fan of Piper..."

:yawn: Who cares what Piper says? What has God said? Lk 16:18

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 12:15 PM
:yawn: Who cares what Piper says? What has God said? Lk 16:18

What about a wife divorcing her husband? That verse says nothing about that.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 12:19 PM
[Lk 16:18] "He didn't say what you think he said there." :yawn: Lk 16:18 isn't going anywhere.


"As Jay Adams says, people like you do not have a good grasp of scripture..." :yawn: Eph 4:14

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 12:23 PM
:yawn: Lk 16:18 isn't going anywhere.

:yawn: Eph 4:14


He was talking to Jewish Pharisees there... of which I am not.

Find me a passage directed specifically at Christians, then we can talk.

You really should be ashamed of yourself for such lazy exegesis.

http://www.amazon.com/Marriage-Divorce-Remarriage-Bible-Adams/dp/0310511119

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 12:37 PM
[Lk 16:18 isn't going anywhere] "He was talking to Jewish Pharisees there... of which I am not. Find me a passage directed specifically at Christians, then we can talk." Be like Thomas Jefferson--cut out of your bible any biblical principle that :sozo2: offends you. :idunno: Lk 16:17, Ro 1:16, Re 22:11


"You really should be ashamed of yourself for such lazy exegesis."

:yawn: Eph 4:14 :noway:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 12:40 PM
Be like Thomas Jefferson--cut out of your bible any biblical principle that :sozo2: offends you. :idunno: Lk 16:17, Ro 1:16, Re 22:11



:yawn: Eph 4:14 :noway:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

I'm not cutting anything out.... who Jesus was speaking to is very important. Because he is doing so for a purpose.

Yet you feel comfortable blaspheming him for a different purpose?

You need to repent!

Daniel1611
July 20th, 2015, 12:44 PM
I'm not cutting anything out.... who Jesus was speaking to is very important. Because he is doing so for a purpose.

Yet you feel comfortable blaspheming him for a different purpose?

You need to repent!

Your righteousness better exceed that of the Pharisees.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 12:47 PM
Your righteousness better exceed that of the Pharisees.

Christ alone is my righteousness.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 12:50 PM
[Lk 16:18 isn't going anywhere] "I'm not cutting anything out.... who Jesus was speaking to is very important. Because he is doing so for a purpose." Biblical principles aren't for you, humanist. :idunno: You are free to bed hop now (Heb 13:4). :devil: You're still not happy? :sigh: Ps 50:21, Pr 16:25, Re 22:11 What can we do to make you happy? :freak: 1 Pe 1:16


"Yet you feel comfortable blaspheming him for a different purpose?" :yawn: Eph 4:14


"You need to repent!" :yawn: Mt 7:5 :noway:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 12:58 PM
Biblical principles aren't for you, humanist. :idunno: You are free to bed hop now (Heb 13:4). :devil: You're still not happy? :sigh: Ps 50:21, Pr 16:25, Re 22:11 What can we do to make you happy? :freak: 1 Pe 1:16

:yawn: Eph 4:14

:yawn: Mt 7:5 :noway:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

Me not happy?.... you don't know me. I'm the happiest I have ever been in my entire life now... God brought the right women into my life that did not deceive me, lie to me and take advantage of me and then leave like the first.

He has rewarded me handsomely, and provided me with 4 awesome grandchildren and an awesome son in law and daughter in law. I feel like I have been so blessed it's amazing.... and on top of that all my financial problems have gone away, because I don't have a wife opening credit cards up behind my back and maxing them out (oh, and she had the card bills sent to her parents house)... and then leave and lie to everyone that I was abusing them... then when everyone found out she was lying, she left and moved 1000 miles away so no one would remember how badly she lied. At that point my church and Lawyer urged me to give her her divorce and let her go on her way. (I ended up eating all the debt though... 47k worth of credit card debt... and agreed not to go after her for draining my 401k)

Everyday, I thank God for turning my life around.. in so many ways, all because of my wife. She is a blessing.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 12:59 PM
Christ alone is my righteousness.

Where are your fruits, humanist? :devil: Mk 4:20 You are going to approach a holy God with that rotten fruit?

Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Lk 3:7–9

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life (Ga 6:7–8).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 01:12 PM
Where are your fruits, humanist? :devil: Mk 4:20 You are going to approach a holy God with that rotten fruit?

Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones. And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees. Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Lk 3:7–9

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life (Ga 6:7–8).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

You keep linking to Pipers paper like he is Christ himself...

Why would you keep directing someone to a 'pastor' that has been proven wrong so many times?

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 01:13 PM
[Lk 16:18 isn't going anywhere] "Me not happy?.... you don't know me." Why would I need to know you? Is 57:21


"I'm the happiest I have ever been in my entire life now...[M]y church and Lawyer [sic] urged me to give her her divorce and let her go on her way. (I ended up eating all the debt though... 47k worth of credit card debt... and agreed not to go after her for draining my 401k)..."
http://www.senocular.com/smilies/violin.gif You capitalized lawyer. Isa 1:17

"Everyday, I thank God for turning my life around..."

"If you can sin, you're not God's child. You can fool everybody else but you can't fool him." ~ J. Vernon McGee

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 01:17 PM
[Lk 16:18 isn't going anywhere. Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper] "Why would you keep directing someone to a 'pastor' that has been proven wrong so many times?" :yawn: Eph 4:14 :noway:

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 01:17 PM
"If you can sin, you're not God's child.* You can fool everybody else but you can't fool him." ~ J. Vernon McGee


You just made me laugh and made my day. That is a nut job that I had forgotten about so many years ago.

We used to have contests when I was in College to see who could do the best imitation of the crack pot J. Vernon McGee... I used to come in second.

J. Vernon McGee was another proven liar.. why would you post something he had to say?

Is it true that his son still prostitutes himself by trying to copyright/sell the tapes of his father across the country?

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 01:38 PM
[Lk 16:18 isn't going anywhere, J. Vernon McGee] "...J. Vernon McGee was another proven liar...[W]hy would you post something he had to say?"

:yawn:

And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.

And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them [Ezek. 33:32–33].

"Now that Jerusalem has fallen, as Ezekiel had prophesied, the people know he is a true prophet of God. Although they know he is giving them God’s Word, they still will not obey it. My friend, unbelief is willful; it is not because mankind has a great mentality that cannot accept what God says. The real problem is that people do not want to give up their sin. That was the problem with the people to whom Ezekiel ministered. They were willing to come and listen to what Ezekiel had to say, but it had no effect upon them whatsoever. You would think that the people would now turn to God, but that was not the case. God said to Ezekiel, “Don’t let the crowds deceive you. It is true that they are coming and listening, but they are not heeding what you say. They are not doers of the Word at all. They like it when they hear you talk about love, and the future, and prophecy, but it has not affected their lives one whit. They are still living the same way—far from Me.”

Ezekiel was the only man who said that Jerusalem would be destroyed. All of the false prophets said that it would not be destroyed. The word of confirmation has come. Jerusalem is destroyed. Ezekiel is declared a true prophet." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Prophets (Ezekiel) (electronic ed., Vol. 25, pp. 167–168). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.



"Is it true that his son still prostitutes himself by trying to copyright/sell the tapes of his father across the country?"


...I don't have a wife opening credit cards up behind my back and maxing them out (oh, and she had the card bills sent to her parents house)... and then leave and lie to everyone that I was abusing them... then when everyone found out she was lying, she left and moved 1000 miles away so no one would remember how badly she lied. At that point my church and Lawyer urged me to give her her divorce and let her go on her way. (I ended up eating all the debt though... 47k worth of credit card debt... and agreed not to go after her for draining my 401k)...:yawn: Lev. 19:16 :sibbie:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 01:42 PM
So J Vernon McGee is your Christ?

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 01:46 PM
You keep linking to [John] Piper[']s paper like he is Christ himself...


So J Vernon McGee is your Christ?

:yawn: Eph 4:14

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 01:48 PM
:yawn: Eph 4:14

Yup... you are allowed yourself to be tricked by Piper and McGee... both proven false teachers.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 01:51 PM
Yup... you are allowed yourself to be tricked by Piper and McGee... both proven false teachers.

:yawn: Don't blame them that you are a serial adulterer (Lk 16:18). :dizzy:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 01:54 PM
:yawn: Don't blame them that you are a serial adulterer (Lk 16:18). :dizzy:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

Apparently you do not know what the word serial means... not surprising.

And how do you define adultery?... sex? If that's the case, then I need an apology!!!... lots of apologies!

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 02:03 PM
[Lk 16:18] ...[H]ow do you define adultery?... sex? If that's the case, then I need an apology!!!... lots of apologies! :idunno: Depends on what the meaning of is is (Heb 13:4). :devil:


God brought the right women into my life that did not deceive me, lie to me and take advantage of me and then leave like the first...

http://www.abrsm.org/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/happyviolin.gif

The carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. (Ro 8:7–8).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

Angel4Truth
July 20th, 2015, 02:07 PM
There are many good reasons. Can you think of any?

Abuse, adultery, abandonment

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 02:08 PM
Abuse, adultery, abandonment

Unfaithfulness(this is not just confined to sex.. there are many ways to be unfaithful) and treachery.

Angel4Truth
July 20th, 2015, 02:11 PM
Unfaithfulness(this is not just confined to sex.. there are many ways to be unfaithful) and treachery.

Wouldnt that fall under abuse?

Rusha
July 20th, 2015, 02:15 PM
Wouldnt that fall under abuse?

It's definitely *emotionally* abusive ... and could carry over to physical abuse should the guilty party catch a disease and give it to their spouse.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 02:16 PM
Wouldnt that fall under abuse?

No... I could be something like playing video games obsessively and ignoring your spouse. Having a virtual 'friend' on the internet of the other sex. Looking a pornography, etc.

The most valuable thing you can provide to your spouse is your time.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 03:15 PM
:yawn: Did you file for divorce? 1 Co 7:27 NET

You are misusing the scriptures.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 03:20 PM
Confine your offense to the gospel (Ro 1:16). :peach:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

John Piper is a Calvinist. Are you are Calvinist? Don't you know how to study and find God's Truth for yourself?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 03:21 PM
Not a fan of Piper.. his theology is out in the bushes most of the time.

I think this book is closer to the mark when it comes to marriage... and its written by someone that has spent a lifetime doing christian counseling.

http://www.amazon.com/Marriage-Divorce-Remarriage-Bible-Adams/dp/0310511119

You do not agree with Jesus Christ, so who care about your referrals?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 03:28 PM
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 03:31 PM
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


This scripture explains Matthew 19:9 more.

Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

She left and wanted a divorce... I did not initiate a divorce.

How does that fit into that scripture?

As a man, during the time that verse was spoken, I was eligible to have multiple wives... and here it talks about the wife being the adulteror.. not the husband.

You are trying to put a square peg in a round hole.. it just doesn't fit.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 03:33 PM
John Piper is a Calvinist. Are you are Calvinist? Don't you know how to study and find God's Truth for yourself?

So? what does John Piper's religious persuasion have to do with this conversation? Nothing.. you are just clouding the issue.

And I have found God's truth... you obviously haven't and are buying someone elses naive interpretation hook line and sinker.

Everyone has a choice... you cannot make someone sin... which makes that verse interesting. Maybe you should look into it deeper?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 03:43 PM
She left and wanted a divorce... I did not initiate a divorce.

How does that fit into that scripture?

The scripture says if a man divorces a woman. So your wife divorced you. Now what does the scripture say? The scripture says that if anyone marries such a person then they commit adultery.



As a man, during the time that verse was spoken, I was eligible to have multiple wives... and here it talks about the wife being the adulteror.. not the husband.

You keep saying things to try and discredit Jesus' words.



You are trying to put a square peg in a round hole.. it just doesn't fit.
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


This scripture explains Matthew 19:9 more.

Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

HisServant
July 20th, 2015, 03:45 PM
The scripture says if a man divorces a woman. So your wife divorced you. Now what does the scripture say? The scripture says that if anyone marries such a person then they commit adultery.


You keep saying things to try and discredit Jesus' words.


Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


This scripture explains Matthew 19:9 more.

Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

You are still applying Jesus words unevenly.

Jesus doesn't have double standards... why do you?

The only reason I can think of you continuing to twist Gods word is that you are a secret Mormon and believe we are still married in heaven.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 03:49 PM
So? what does John Piper's religious persuasion have to do with this conversation? Nothing.. you are just clouding the issue.

If a Calvinist cannot make a right decision about who can be saved, what would make me want to trust their decision about who can remarry?



And I have found God's truth... you obviously haven't and are buying someone elses naive interpretation hook line and sinker.
I bought Jesus' teachings.




Everyone has a choice... you cannot make someone sin... which makes that verse interesting. Maybe you should look into it deeper?

We are supposed to get married once. It is a hard teaching, but the scriptures are clear about that.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 03:51 PM
You are still applying Jesus words unevenly.

Jesus doesn't have double standards... why do you?

The only reason I can think of you continuing to twist Gods word is that you are a secret Mormon and believe we are still married in heaven.

lol

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 03:57 PM
HisServant,

I understand you feel blessed by your second wife; however, you still were not supposed to get remarried.

Do you believe abortion is wrong?

Let's say someone sins by getting an abortion, yet two months after the abortion the woman gets pregnant again and carries to term. This child is a blessing, yet this child would not have been born if the woman did not get an abortion. Do you see now how what you are saying about remarriage does not make what you have done right?

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 04:05 PM
HisServant,

I understand you feel blessed by your second wife; however, you still were not supposed to get remarried.

Do you believe abortion is wrong?

Let's say someone sins by getting an abortion, yet two months after the abortion the woman gets pregnant again and carries to term. This child is a blessing, yet this child would not have been born if the woman did not get an abortion. Do you see now how what you are saying about remarriage does not make what you have done right?

Do you believe that God forgives?

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 04:07 PM
...I...gave her a bill of divorce...



I did not put away my wife...


...I did not initiate a divorce.

Which is it? :smokie:

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 04:11 PM
[Ro 8:7–8] You keep saying things to try and discredit Jesus' words.

He does not know the love of God. Therefore, he cannot love his spouse. Jn 17:21

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:13 PM
Do you believe that God forgives?

Of course, I do. You have to ask for forgiveness to be forgiven.

Where do you get that I do not think God forgives? Did you read how I told HisServant that he should ask God to forgive him for remarrying? Did you read how I said that he should start preaching the truth and that is that we are not supposed to remarry?

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 04:14 PM
Of course, I do. You have to ask for forgiveness to be forgiven.

Where do you get that I do not think God forgives? Did you read how I told HisServant that he should ask God to forgive him for remarrying? Did you read how I said that he should start preaching the truth and that is that we are not supposed to remarry?

Can we be forgiven if we remarry?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:15 PM
He does not know the love of God. Therefore, he cannot love his spouse. Jn 17:21

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

I could not care any less about your accusations.

Jesus is God.

I do not believe you know the love of God.

You are judged in the same way you judge others.

Matthew 7:2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:17 PM
Can we be forgiven if we remarry?

We can be forgiven. However, tell me, are you getting remarried knowing it is wrong? There are people who got remarried and did not know it was wrong until it was too late.

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 04:20 PM
We can be forgiven. However, tell me, are you getting remarried knowing it is wrong? There are people who got remarried and did not know it was wrong until it was too late.

The question is: Does God forgive sin? Why is it so difficult to answer?

Matthew 12:31 Modern English Version (MEV)

31 Therefore I say to you, all kinds of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven men.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 04:22 PM
HisServant,

I understand you feel blessed by your second wife; however, you still were not supposed to get remarried.

...While his wife is alive (Rom. 7:2, 3). We can't unscrambled eggs (Matt. 19:6, 1 Co 6:16).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:25 PM
The question is: Does God forgive sin? Why is it so difficult to answer?

Matthew 12:31 Modern English Version (MEV)

31 Therefore I say to you, all kinds of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven men.

It is only difficult in your own mind.

Tell me, did I not tell you God forgives?

Why don't you want to answer the question about willful sin?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:28 PM
...While his wife is alive (Rom. 7:2, 3). We can't unscrambled eggs (Matt. 19:6, 1 Co 6:16).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

Of course, a person can remarry someone after their spouse dies, but not remarry a divorced person.

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 04:29 PM
It is only difficult in your own mind.

Tell me, did I not tell you God forgives?

Why don't you want to answer the question about willful sin?

God even forgives willful sin for the flesh is weak.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:34 PM
God even forgives willful sin for the flesh is weak.

Jesus saves overcomers.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 04:34 PM
[Adultery Ex 20:14] We can be forgiven. However, tell me, are you getting remarried knowing it is wrong? There are people who got remarried and did not know it was wrong until it was too late.


The question is: Does God forgive sin? Why is it so difficult to answer?

It's a good question and it matters. There is a difference between unknown sin (Lev 5:17-19, NET) and presumptuous sin (Ps. 19:13, Jas 4:17). Lk 12:47

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:35 PM
Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.


And there is only one way a person can overcome this world, and that is through Jesus Christ our Savior.


1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:37 PM
It's a good question and it matters. There is a difference between unknown sin (Lev 5:17-19, NET) and presumptuous sin (Ps. 19:13, Jas 4:17). Lk 12:47

You need to do something about exalting a Calvinist before you try to teach others.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 04:40 PM
You need to do something about exalting a Calvinist before you try to teach others.

:yawn: I reject Calvinism (2 Pe 2:1, Eph 4:14).

See:

Does God Elect Everyone? (http://www.vananne.com/armorofthelord/Does%20God%20Elect%20Everyone.pdf)

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 04:42 PM
It's a good question and it matters. There is a difference between unknown sin (Lev 5:17-19, NET) and presumptuous sin (Ps. 19:13, Jas 4:17).

Is the alcoholic forgiven if he takes a drink? Is the drug addict forgiven if they indulge in a hit?

Is Romans 7 so far from you that you would not forgive?

Romans 7:15-25 New King James Version (NKJV)

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:48 PM
:yawn: I reject Calvinism (2 Pe 2:1, Eph 4:14).

See:

Does God Elect Everyone? (http://www.vananne.com/armorofthelord/Does%20God%20Elect%20Everyone.pdf)

As a reminder God's Truth is number 39 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://vananne.com/serpentdove/TOL%20Heretics%20List.htm) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

I don't care about your Satan list.

They called Jesus Beelzebul. You are like those who went against Jesus.

Matthew 10:25 It is enough for students to be like their teachers, and servants like their masters. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:50 PM
Is the alcoholic forgiven if he takes a drink? Is the drug addict forgiven if they indulge in a hit?

Is Romans 7 so far from you that you would not forgive?

Romans 7:15-25 New King James Version (NKJV)

15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

God can forgive someone who willfully sins.

Now stop going against those who preach obedience to Christ and teach the truth that we are not to remarry.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:52 PM
John 6:60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 04:53 PM
John 6:61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you?

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 04:54 PM
Of course, a person can remarry someone after their spouse dies, but not remarry a divorced person.

"Well, let's get specific, Bob!" ~ George Malley, Phenomenon

She must wait until he is good and dead :dead:--not mostly dead http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/e5e4a3e033520efa01a668bc878b3668/http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/Kalystal_Chaos/emoticons/6ep76a.gif--mostly. 1 Co 7:39

http://msn.mess.be/data/thumbnails/378/Day-Dreaming.gif

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 04:58 PM
God can forgive someone who willfully sins.

Now stop going against those who preach obedience to Christ and teach the truth that we are not to remarry.

Your point is moot. Yes in a perfect world marriage would be once for life, but that is not so. I have been happily married to my second wife for thirty four years today. And you know what? My first wife has forgiven. What a concept, forgiveness.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:02 PM
"Well, let's get specific, Bob!" ~ George Malley, Phenomenon

She must wait until he is good and dead :dead:--not mostly dead http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/e5e4a3e033520efa01a668bc878b3668/http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e367/Kalystal_Chaos/emoticons/6ep76a.gif--mostly. http://msnsmileys.net/S/South-Park-Cartman/cartman22.gif 1 Co 7:39

http://msn.mess.be/data/thumbnails/378/Day-Dreaming.gif

If a person is widowed they can remarry another widow or a person who has not ever been married.

Do you understand now?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:05 PM
Your point is moot. Yes in a perfect world marriage would be once for life, but that is not so. I have been happily married to my second wife for thirty four years today. And you know what? My first wife has forgiven. What a concept, forgiveness.

Why don't you see that you are not doing right when you do not preach what Jesus says?

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 05:08 PM
Why don't you see that you are not doing right when you do not preach what Jesus says?

Do you harbor unforgiveness in you heart?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:10 PM
Do you harbor unforgiveness in you heart?

Is that what you say to Jesus when you know what he teaches?

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 05:22 PM
Is that what you say to Jesus when you know what he teaches?

Jesus is a God of forgiveness, remember?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:31 PM
Jesus is a God of forgiveness, remember?

Do you think that Jesus forgiving means you should not preach the truth and that is to do what Jesus says and not remarry?

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 05:35 PM
Do you think that Jesus forgiving means you should not preach the truth and that is to do what Jesus says and not remarry?

I never said that. Are you saying that Jesus does not forgive?

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:39 PM
I never said that. Are you saying that Jesus does not forgive?

You keep going against me whenever I tell you what Jesus says and that you should obey him.

Why do you keep doing that? You need to ask yourself why you do that. Jesus forgiving does not give you permission to sin.

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 05:42 PM
You keep going against me whenever I tell you what Jesus says and that you should obey him.

Why do you keep doing that? You need to ask yourself why you do that. Jesus forgiving does not give you permission to sin.

No you are wrong. You need to learn to be non-judgmental and forgive.

Matthew 7:1 Modern English Version (MEV)

Judging Others
7 “Judge not, that you be not judged.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:44 PM
No you are wrong. You need to learn to be non-judgmental and forgive.

Matthew 7:1 Modern English Version (MEV)

Judging Others
7 “Judge not, that you be not judged.

You are a false witness.

Show where I say I do not forgive.

You feel convicted by Jesus' words so you falsely accuse me.

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 05:45 PM
You are a false witness.

Show where I say I do not forgive.

You feel convicted by Jesus' words so you falsely accuse me.

How dare you. :ha: Read your responses. You have been criticizing the divorced all through this thread.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:49 PM
How dare you. :ha: Read your responses. You have been criticizing the divorced all through this thread.

I have been telling you what Jesus says. You feel convicted for a reason.

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 05:54 PM
I have been telling you what Jesus says. You feel convicted for a reason.

I'm forgiven not convicted. Something that you do not do, extend forgiveness.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:55 PM
I'm forgiven not convicted. Something that you do not do, extend forgiveness.

You are a false accuser.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:56 PM
There are people here who need to ask for forgiveness for remarrying and then for attacking others for telling them that Jesus says not to remarry unless your spouse dies.

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 05:57 PM
You are a false accuser.

Truth hurts doesn't it? Where in this thread have you shown any sign of forgiveness? Show it to me and I will retract my statement.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 05:59 PM
Truth hurts doesn't it? Where in this thread have you shown any sign of forgiveness? Show it to me and I will retract my statement.

I am not interested in your game.

Lazy afternoon
July 20th, 2015, 06:01 PM
There are people here who need to ask for forgiveness for remarrying and then for attacking others for telling them that Jesus says not to remarry unless your spouse dies.

Jesus did not say that.

He told them they ought not put away their wives illegally, and not as prescribed by Moses who God authorized by the paper of divorce for legal and moral reasons.

LA

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 06:01 PM
I am not interested in your game.

Like I said. Unforgiveness is not in your bag.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:01 PM
Jesus did not say that.

He told them they ought not put away their wives illegally, and not as prescribed by Moses who God authorized by the paper of divorce for legal and moral reasons.

LA

Lol...Jesus does not say that.

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 06:02 PM
Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

There is forgiveness for you. Hypocrite!

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:04 PM
There is forgiveness for you. Hypocrite!

You have to ask God forgiveness for falsely accusing others.

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 06:05 PM
You have to ask God forgiveness for falsely accusing others.

I'm finished with you HYPOCRITE!

Lazy afternoon
July 20th, 2015, 06:06 PM
Lol...Jesus does not say that.

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Try better translations.

You have been duped.

Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.


LA

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:06 PM
I'm finished with you HYPOCRITE!

Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Bright Raven
July 20th, 2015, 06:07 PM
Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

UNFORGIVING HYPOCRITE!

Interplanner
July 20th, 2015, 06:07 PM
Jesus did not say that.

He told them they ought not put away their wives illegally, and not as prescribed by Moses who God authorized by the paper of divorce for legal and moral reasons.

LA


LA, you're line is right, but Lk 16 does say not to marry divorcees. Only those who were never married or are widows. The practice, advocated by Rabbi Shammai at the time, was that the divorced people were entitled to remarry because everything was tidily finished from the previous. So that is one of the things Jesus attacks, calling it adultery. "Any and every reason" is the other, which Shammai also allowed.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:08 PM
Try better translations.

You have been duped.

Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.


LA

How do you think that translation says something different?

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 06:12 PM
[To another member: Lk 16:18 isn't going anywhere] How do you think that translation says something different?

Matt. 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11 http://vananne.com/serpentdove/frantics.gif

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:15 PM
Matt. 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11 http://vananne.com/serpentdove/frantics.gif

That is right, there are more than one scripture that says we are not to remarry as long as our spouse lives, and we are not to marry a divorced person.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 06:19 PM
That is right, there are more than one scripture that says we are not to remarry as long as our spouse lives, and we are not to marry a divorced person.

No loopholes. :idunno: Jesus never endorsed divorced (Mt 19:8).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper) by John Piper

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:20 PM
No loopholes. :idunno: Jesus never endorsed divorced (Mt 19:8).

That is right.

Lazy afternoon
July 20th, 2015, 06:21 PM
Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Mat 5:32 ButG1161 IG1473 sayG3004 unto you,G5213 ThatG3754 whosoeverG3739 G302 shall put awayG630 hisG848 wife,G1135 saving forG3924 the causeG3056 of fornication,G4202 causethG4160 herG846 to commit adultery:G3429 andG2532 whosoeverG3739 G1437 shall marryG1060 her that is divorcedG630 committeth adultery.G3429

The word divorce does not come into it.

Divorce was granted by God though Moses.

Jesus did not want to give people the easy way out and He was not a minister of the law.

However the law still exists.

To remarry after a legitimate divorce is not a sin.

I say this not to teach you but that others do not condemn themselves needlessly, but of course one only has to pray about it, and read the Bible correctly.

Gurucam teaches believers leave their spouses if they are not their spiritual partners. Paul forbad that.

You should talk to him.

LA

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 06:24 PM
That is right.

Yes, so when one learns that he's done wrong--repent. :idunno: This isn't rocket science (Lk 17:3).

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:25 PM
Mat 5:32 ButG1161 IG1473 sayG3004 unto you,G5213 ThatG3754 whosoeverG3739 G302 shall put awayG630 hisG848 wife,G1135 saving forG3924 the causeG3056 of fornication,G4202 causethG4160 herG846 to commit adultery:G3429 andG2532 whosoeverG3739 G1437 shall marryG1060 her that is divorcedG630 committeth adultery.G3429

The word divorce does not come into it.

Divorce was granted by God though Moses.

Jesus did not want to give people the easy way out and He was not a minister of the law.

However the law still exists.

Jesus said we have to surpass the righteousness of the Pharisees.

Jesus taught the New Covenant.

You have to obey the Covenant rules to be in the Covenant.




To remarry after a legitimate divorce is not a sin.

I say this not to teach you but that others do not condemn themselves needlessly, but of course one only has to pray about it, and read the Bible correctly.

You are doing people harm. As I have already told HisServant, no one is telling him to divorce his second wife since it is adultery. However, he should ask for forgiveness and start preaching the truth and that is do not remarry when your spouse is still alive.




Gurucam teaches believers leave their spouses if they are not their spiritual partners. Paul forbad that.

You should talk to him.

LA

Your insults are just proof that you do not speak the truth.

Lazy afternoon
July 20th, 2015, 06:26 PM
Matt. 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11 http://vananne.com/serpentdove/frantics.gif

You would condemn a wife to a life of bashings by a drunk, for your own false religious reasons.

and deny her the care and love of a real man.

The real Jesus does not do that.

Your jesus does.

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

LA

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:27 PM
Yes, so when one learns that he's done wrong--repent. :idunno: This isn't rocket science (Lk 17:3).

They are fighting the repenting part. They would rather say Jesus did not really say do not remarry than to ask for forgiveness.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:43 PM
You would condemn a wife to a life of bashings by a drunk, for your own false religious reasons.

and deny her the care and love of a real man.

The real Jesus does not do that.

Your jesus does.

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

LA

Matthew 19:10 The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry." 11 But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given. 12"For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother's womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it."


The man or the woman can live the rest of her life as an eunuch.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 06:46 PM
They are fighting the repenting part. They would rather say Jesus did not really say do not remarry than to ask for forgiveness.

Yes, if I'm a thief, I'm told--steal no more (Eph 4:28). I'm not told stealing is just fine and dandy (1 Jn 1:9).

turbosixx
July 20th, 2015, 06:52 PM
There are many good reasons. Can you think of any?

No one wins in divorce, and the ones that pay the most are innocent children. In most cases, divorce is a selfish act.

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 06:53 PM
Yes, if I'm a thief, I'm told--steal no more (Eph 4:28). I'm not told stealing is just fine and dandy (1 Jn 1:9).

That is right. Stealing is a sin. We can make all kinds of excuses why we might need to steal...hungry and poor, etc.; however, it is still a sin.

Proverbs 30:9 Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the LORD?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God.

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 07:13 PM
"That is right. Stealing is a sin. We can make all kinds of excuses why we might need to steal...hungry and poor, etc.; however, it is still a sin." Exactly. Sin is sin (Ex 20:14) which is why we need a savior (2 Cor. 5:18, 19). He bought our righteousness by shedding his blood (2 Cor. 5:20, 21).

"He cannot lower his standards and slip you into heaven by the cover of night." ~ J. Vernon McGee Mt 19:6



"Proverbs 30:9 Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you and say, 'Who is the LORD?' Or I may become poor and steal, and so dishonor the name of my God." "Man's Prayer to God (30:7–9)

30:7–9. The words two things introduce a series of six numerical sayings in this chapter (vv. 7–9, 15b–16, 18–19, 21–23, 24–28, 29–31). This prayer for “two things” affirms the humility introduced in verses 2–3. Realizing his frailty, the writer asked the LORD for specific help in two areas of weakness before he died: protection from lying, and provision of daily sustenance (bread; cf. Matt. 6:11) without the temptations of wealth or poverty. Wealth might cause him to disown and forget the LORD (cf. Deut. 8:12–17) thinking he could care for himself; and poverty might cause him to steal and thus dishonor God’s character." Walvoord, J. F., & Zuck, R. B., Dallas Theological Seminary. (1985). The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (Vol. 1, p. 970). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.

2 Sa 12:14 David repented (Ps. 32:1–11; Ps. 51:1–19).

God's Truth
July 20th, 2015, 07:20 PM
Exactly. Sin is sin (Ex 20:14) which is why we need a savior (2 Cor. 5:18, 19). He bought our righteousness by shedding his blood (2 Cor. 5:20, 21).

"He cannot lower his standards and slip you into heaven by the cover of night." ~ J. Vernon McGee Mt 19:6

"Man's Prayer to God (30:7–9)

30:7–9. The words two things introduce a series of six numerical sayings in this chapter (vv. 7–9, 15b–16, 18–19, 21–23, 24–28, 29–31). This prayer for “two things” affirms the humility introduced in verses 2–3. Realizing his frailty, the writer asked the LORD for specific help in two areas of weakness before he died: protection from lying, and provision of daily sustenance (bread; cf. Matt. 6:11) without the temptations of wealth or poverty. Wealth might cause him to disown and forget the LORD (cf. Deut. 8:12–17) thinking he could care for himself; and poverty might cause him to steal and thus dishonor God’s character." Walvoord, J. F., & Zuck, R. B., Dallas Theological Seminary. (1985). The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (Vol. 1, p. 970). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.

2 Sa 12:14 David repented (Ps. 32:1–11; Ps. 51:1–19).


Just wondering why you need to mention all those men?

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 07:30 PM
"You would condemn a wife to a life of bashings by a drunk..." Dr. Laura Schlessinger would agree with you. I do not. She can learn how to fight back. She can ask her church for help (Mt 18). I'm sure they have a few Italians who could lend a fist. :idunno: Mt 5:32


"...for your own false religious reasons." :yawn: Provide scripture to support your truth claim. :peach:


"...and deny her the care and love of a real man." You call adulterers real men. :idunno: I do not (Ex 20:14, Lk 16:18). :rolleyes: You are not improving her situation by recommending she commit adultery (Lk 16:18). :dizzy: Ro 14:12

As a reminder Lazy Afternoon is number 11 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86620) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

serpentdove
July 20th, 2015, 07:35 PM
Just wondering why you need to mention all those men?

For the high-handed sinner who might think: Well David did it. I'm good. :banana: Grace is not a license to sin (Ps. 73:8–12).

1 Co 6:18

aoxF29RI2Bs

Ben Masada
July 20th, 2015, 11:30 PM
There are many good reasons. Can you think of any?

Yea! There are many good reasons and the main one must be because God hates divorce. Have you ever read Malachi 2:13? The Lord divorced Israel and hated to have done that. The time had arrived for the Lord to divorce one of the two women married to Him and He didn't like to have to do that as He loved both: Israel and Judah. But He had no other choice but to divorce one of them; Israel there is, and keep Judah forever to Himself. (Psa. 78:67-69) Therefore the best reason for you to love divorce must be the fact that the Lord had to divorce Israel, and you can't help but let us know today the reason why you love divorce.

Angel4Truth
July 21st, 2015, 09:38 AM
So, all of you who think remarriage is a sin, do you think believers that are remarried should divorce?

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 09:59 AM
So, all of you who think remarriage is a sin, do you think believers that are remarried should divorce?

As I have said a few times before that I am not saying anyone is supposed to divorce their second wife. However, they should ask for forgiveness and start preaching the truth, and that is that we are not to remarry while our spouse is alive, and we are not to marry a divorced person.

serpentdove
July 21st, 2015, 10:17 AM
[Serial adulterers] "...[T]hey should ask for forgiveness and start preaching the truth, and that is that we are not to remarry while our spouse is alive, and we are not to marry a divorced person."

Yes. If I've murdered someone (Ex 20:13) I don't run around after conversion (Ac 26:9; 1 Tim 1:13) telling everyone how great murder is. :dizzy: The apostle Paul called himself chief among sinners (1 Ti 1:15). It wasn't a pious platitude :o (Ac 9:1, 2, 22:3–5, 26:10, 11; Gal. 1:13). He really was :CRASH: the Osama bin Laden of his day.

Adultery (Ex 20:14) is a forgivable sin (Mt 12:31). Repent (Ac 8:22, 9:35, 15:3, 1 Sa 7:3). Beg the Lord to forgive you (1 Jn 1:9).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper)by John Piper

serpentdove
July 21st, 2015, 10:27 AM
No one wins in divorce, and the ones that pay the most are innocent children. In most cases, divorce is a selfish act.2 Ti 3:2

Marry a believer (2 Co 6:14). :straight: The last thing you want to do is watch your kids follow your unbelieving spouse to hell (Mt 10:36).

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me [Exod. 20:4–5].

"Some people may feel that this passage does not apply to us today. Colossians 3:5 tells us that “… covetousness … is idolatry.” Anything that you give yourself to, especially in abandonment, becomes your “god.” Many people do not worship Bacchus, the cloven–footed Greek and Roman god of wine and revelry of long ago, but they worship the bottle just the same. There are millions of alcoholics in our country right now. The liquor interests like to tell us about how much of the tax burden they carry, when actually they do not pay a fraction of the bill for the casualties they cause by their product. A lot of propaganda is being fed to this generation and large groups of people are being brainwashed. Whether or not folk recognize it, they worship the god Bacchus.

Other people worship Aphrodite, that is, the goddess of sex. Some people worship money. Anything to which you give your time, heart, and soul, becomes your god. God says that we are not to have any gods before Him." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Law (Exodus 19–40) (electronic ed., Vol. 5, pp. 26–27). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 10:29 AM
Yes. If I've murdered someone (Ex 20:13) I don't run around after conversion (Ac 26:9; 1 Tim 1:13) telling everyone how great murder is. :dizzy: The apostle Paul called himself chief among sinners (1 Ti 1:15). It wasn't a pious platitude :o (Ac 9:1, 2, 22:3–5, 26:10, 11; Gal. 1:13). He really was :CRASH: the Osama bin Laden of his day.

Adultery (Ex 20:14) is a forgivable sin (Mt 12:31). Repent (Ac 8:22, 9:35, 15:3, 1 Sa 7:3). Beg the Lord to forgive you (1 Jn 1:9).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper)by John Piper

I would agree with you. However, if you have studied God's Word in the Holy Bible with the Holy Spirit for yourself, then stop with the John Piper exalting.

Is it your beliefs now or is it still John Piper's beliefs? Have you studied God's Truth as written in the Holy Bible, or are you just agreeing with John Piper?

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 10:37 AM
Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

You embody everything that is wrong with Christianity today. God is going to crush your type over the next couple of decades.

serpentdove
July 21st, 2015, 10:42 AM
"...[S]top with the John Piper exalting...Have you studied God's Truth as written in the Holy Bible, or are you just agreeing with John Piper?" :yawn: His paper addresses what we are discussing here (Heb 13:4).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper)by John Piper

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 10:44 AM
You embody everything that is wrong with Christianity today. God is going to crush your type over the next couple of decades.

Satan is trying to do away with God's Truth; and, you are right, for when Jesus comes will he find faith? You just do not know who is doing the crushing of the Truth.

serpentdove
July 21st, 2015, 10:45 AM
"...Marriage is a contract of mutual decency :Popcorn: ....There are people who live lives of misery :Popcorn: ...I don't think they are morally bound to life a life of misery." :reals: ~ Dennis Prager, radio program 21 Jul 15 Ge 12:1, 2, Job 1:6–22, 2 Cor. 11:21–33

http://smileys.emoticonsonly.com/emoticons/d/dumped-2567.gif

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper)by John Piper

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 10:46 AM
:yawn: His paper addresses what we are discussing here (Heb 13:4).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper)by John Piper

Lead people to God's written Word as in the Holy Bible. You know the truth so stop exalting John Piper the troubled Calvinist. John Calvin will have to repent before Jesus comes again.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 10:46 AM
Satan is trying to do away with God's Truth; and, you are right, for when Jesus comes will he find faith?

No, God's truth existed long before you and your ilk came on the scene with your juvenile interpretation of scripture... in the coming decades he is going to crush all the denominations, theology and eschatology that men created in the the 1700's and 1800's and the satanic theology and approach to biblical study that came along with it.

You are a new ager... filled with your own pride and self deception and blind to the Holy Spirit.

Be prepared to be exposed as hateful idiots, full of Satan and devoid of Christ.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 10:48 AM
You embody everything that is wrong with Christianity today. God is going to crush your type over the next couple of decades.

Oh how I wish I knew God's Truth my whole life. Oh how I wish I knew. So much pain and sadness could have been avoided, except for people such as yourself preaching falseness.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 10:49 AM
Oh how I wish I knew God's Truth my whole life. Oh how I wish I knew. So much pain and sadness could have been avoided, except for people such as yourself preaching falseness.

I have preached NOTHING... I've only pointed out the huge holes in your unchristlike teachings.

Scripture is perfectly able to speak for itself through the Holy Spirit... God doesn't need the likes of idiots like you.

It's going to be a sad day when you are judged and your pride and false teachings are exposed before everyone and Christ tells you to depart because he never knew you.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 10:49 AM
No, God's truth existed long before you and your ilk came on the scene with your juvenile interpretation of scripture... in the coming decades he is going to crush all the denominations, theology and eschatology that men created in the the 1700's and 1800's and the satanic theology and approach to biblical study that came along with it.

You are a new ager... filled with your own pride and self deception and blind to the Holy Spirit.

Be prepared to be exposed as hateful idiots, full of Satan and devoid of Christ.

You are exactly what you falsely accuse me of being, a new ager.

Is Bruce Jenner beautiful to you too?

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 10:50 AM
I have preached NOTHING... I've only pointed out the huge holes in your unchristlike teachings.

Scripture is perfectly able to speak for itself through the holy spirit... God doesn't need the likes of idiots like you.

Your manner of speech while you profess to be speaking God's Powerful Word shows you are evil and in falseness.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 10:51 AM
You are a preacher, HisServant.

You are promoting adultery and disobedience to Christ.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 11:03 AM
You are a preacher, HisServant.

You are promoting adultery and disobedience to Christ.

I'm not 'promoting' anything.

And disobedience is none of your business... because you have that rail road tie sticking out of your eye.. you should try and deal with that first.

Christ has called us to peace...

I see no peace in any of your posts.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 11:05 AM
I'm not 'promoting' anything.

And disobedience is none of your business... because you have that rail road tie sticking out of your eye.. you should try and deal with that first.

Christ has called us to peace...

I have gotten rid of any and all planks that is how I can help you.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 11:07 AM
I have gotten rid of any and all planks that is how I can help you.

Sorry, I don't believe you.. and the tone of your posts suggest otherwise.

You have a plank the size of a 747 in your eye and it has pride, ignorance and blasphemy written all over it.....

Until God crushes you and removes your arrogance you are useless to anyone.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 11:08 AM
Sorry, I don't believe you.. and the tone of your posts suggest otherwise.

You have a plank the size of a 747 in your eye and its name is pride....

Until God crushes you and removes your pride you are useless as a teacher.

God is not going to crush what He says.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 11:09 AM
God is not going to crush what He says.

And there is the rub... your pride is blinding you to what he is saying.

Especially in this format... you are not an elder, preacher or authority that anyone on this site has to submit to.

In fact, you are quite useless and insignificant.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 11:15 AM
And there is the rub... your pride is blinding you to what he is saying.

Especially in this format... you are not an elder, preacher or authority that anyone on this site has to submit to.

In fact, you are quite useless and insignificant.

I am just telling you what Jesus says, and you are going against Jesus' words.

Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

This scripture explains Matthew 19:9 more.

Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


Matt. 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 11:17 AM
I am just telling you what Jesus says, and you are going against Jesus' words.

Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

This scripture explains Matthew 19:9 more.

Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.


Matt. 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11

Why are you editing God's words? (bearing false witness against him)

God doesn't need someone to censor what he says.

How can you call yourself a Christian and be so lazy and use God's words so carelessly.

Christianity is so full of lazy scholars and people who disrespect the integrity of scripture (like you) these days that its really astonishing that God hasn't called down judgement on people like you yet.

Angel4Truth
July 21st, 2015, 11:23 AM
Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Seems if ones spouse committed adultery, one is free to remarry. Also if a non believer leaves, the believer is free to remarry. (not bound)

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

Then we have this:

1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Exceptions are given, and those who deny that, cant read.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 11:23 AM
Why are you editing God's words?

God doesn't need someone to censor what he says.

How can you call yourself a Christian and be so lazy and use God's words so carelessly.

Christianity is so full of lazy scholars and people who disrespect the integrity of scripture (like you) these days that its really astonishing that God hasn't called down judgement on people like you yet.

I have found in the Bible that there is just one scripture, if all would believe and obey, could stop false religions and false doctrine from even beginning. Thank You God, Father in heaven, for Your Powerful Word, Jesus Christ. Amen.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 11:24 AM
Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Seems if ones spouse committed adultery, one is free to remarry. Also if a non believer leaves, the believer is free to remarry. (not bound)

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

Then we have this:

1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Exceptions are given, and those who deny that, cant read.

Or have an agenda or are being willfully ignorant.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 11:25 AM
I have found in the Bible that there is just one scripture, if all would believe and obey, could stop false religions and false doctrine from even beginning. Thank You God, Father in heaven, for Your Powerful Word, Jesus Christ. Amen.

And your religion revolves around taking God's scripture out of context!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No thanks, God doesn't call us to be idiots.

If you want to be a teacher, you need a LOT more wisdom and need to do a LOT more studying and develop the heart and mind of a teacher....

What you are is just someone that refuses to study and resorts to just cobbling bits and pieces of scripture together like photos in a scrap book to try and get your point across. (its not just you, to be honest, refusing to teach exegetically is a huge problem with most 'teachers' these days). Why Jesus said something is just as important as what he said...

You are quite laughable to be honest... but its tragic at the same time because you embody all that is wrong with Christianity at this point in history.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 11:34 AM
And your religion revolves around taking God's scripture out of context!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No thanks, God doesn't call us to be idiots.

If you want to be a teacher, you need a LOT more wisdom and need to do a LOT more studying and develop the heart and mind of a teacher....

What you are is just someone that refuses to study and resorts to just cobbling bits and pieces of scripture together like photos in a scrap book to try and get your point across. (its not just you, to be honest, refusing to teach exegetically is a huge problem with most 'teachers' these days). Why Jesus said something is just as important as what he said...

You are quite laughable to be honest... but its tragic at the same time because you embody all that is wrong with Christianity at this point in history.

I see God's written Word causes you great pain. How about repent and preach the truth?

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 11:39 AM
I see God's written Word causes you great pain. How about repent and preach the truth?

The only thing that causes me great pains are idiots like you thinking they are some sort of authority on anything.

You are an unlearned fool and should keep your mouth shut as scripture requires.

Not to mention you are quite the blasphemer.

It pains me to see someone bear false witness against my Lord.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 11:42 AM
The only thing that causes me great pains are idiots like you thinking they are some sort of authority on anything.

You are an unlearned fool and should keep your mouth shut as scripture requires.

Not to mention you are quite the blasphemer.

It pains me to see someone bear false witness against my Lord.

Just believe and obey.

Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matt. 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 11:43 AM
Just believe and obey.

Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Luke 16:18 "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matt. 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11; 1 Cor. 7:10, 11

Sorry, not obeying a blasphemer! Anyone can cobble verses together to make them say anything they want like you do.

And an idiot that bares false witness against the Lord.

You really need to repent and ask for forgiveness.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 11:45 AM
Its time to treat you as scripture requires of me.



Dealing With False Teachers

14Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. 19Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

20In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use. 21Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

22Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

Good bye.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 11:48 AM
Sorry, not obeying a blasphemer! Anyone can cobble verses together to make them say anything they want like you do.

And an idiot that bares false witness against the Lord.

You really need to repent and ask for forgiveness.

Too bad that you feel that way.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 12:33 PM
Matthew 5:32 NASB
but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
That scripture says that if a husband divorces his wife and she marries another---she commits ADULTERY.

Now how is it that if a man divorces his wife she is an adulterer if she remarries? Because that is what Jesus says!

If the husband divorced her because she committed adultery---then the husband did NOT MAKE HER AN ADULTERER BECAUSE SHE WAS ALREADY ONE.



Seems if ones spouse committed adultery, one is free to remarry. Also if a non believer leaves, the believer is free to remarry. (not bound)

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.

If an unbeliever leaves, we are not bound---but we are STILL NOT TO REMARRY.

If the unbeliever comes back we can still take them back.

1 Corinthians 7:10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.


Then we have this:

1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Exceptions are given, and those who deny that, cant read.

There is no changing God's Truth...we are not to remarry for any reason except for death of a spouse; and, we are not to marry a divorced person.

serpentdove
July 21st, 2015, 12:57 PM
Seems if ones spouse committed adultery, one is free to remarry. Also if a non believer leaves, the believer is free to remarry. (not bound)

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace.




If an unbeliever leaves, we are not bound---but we are STILL NOT TO REMARRY.

If the unbeliever comes back we can still take them back.

1 Corinthians 7:10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.


If the unbeliever leaves, the abandoned believer need not fight to get them back. God has not called us to bondage (1 Co 7:15). In our time Christians are in an improved situation--they used the just murder the new convert in a home.

Adulterers break the oneness relationship (1 Co 6:16). The believer is not required to take on all of the venereal diseases :granite: that aforementioned adulterer may bring http://vananne.com/serpentdove/emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif home. http://www.animated-smileys.com/emoticons/animated-smileys-housekeeping-167.gif

All that God promotes leads to live and good, healthy living. All that the devil and his children promote (Jn 8:44) leads to: theft, murder and destruction (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper)by John Piper

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 12:59 PM
If the unbeliever leaves, the abandoned believer need not fight to get them back. God has not called us to bondage (1 Co 7:15). In our time Christians are in an improved situation--they used the just murder the new convert in a home.

Adulterers break the oneness relationship (1 Co 6:16). The believer is not required to take on all of the venereal diseases :granite: that aforementioned adulterer may bring http://vananne.com/serpentdove/emoticones_gestos_cruzando-los-dedos2_en.PlanetaEmoticon.com.gif home. http://www.animated-smileys.com/emoticons/animated-smileys-housekeeping-167.gif

All that God promotes leads to live and good, healthy living. All that the devil and his children promote (Jn 8:44) leads to: theft, murder and destruction (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10).

See:

Divorce & Remarriage: A Position Paper (http://www.desiringgod.org/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper)by John Piper

Are you agreeing with me or do you think you have disproved something that I said?

serpentdove
July 21st, 2015, 01:12 PM
Are you agreeing with me or do you think you have disproved something that I said?

I think we agree. Reconciliation is encouraged (1 Cor. 7:10–17) but who would want that and all of those creatures with that :granite: back in the marital bed? Deut 24:4, Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10 :shocked:

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/sea-animals/crabby-crab-smiley-emoticon.gif

aikido7
July 21st, 2015, 01:45 PM
There are many good reasons. Can you think of any?*sigh*

Jesus' teachings on divorce could not be more clearer.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 01:54 PM
*sigh*

Jesus' teachings on divorce could not be more clearer.

Agreed... then there is the issue that the culture and practice of marriage and divorce was very different back then.

aikido7
July 21st, 2015, 02:00 PM
Agreed... then there is the issue that the culture and practice of marriage and divorce was very different back then.Exactly.

As serious students of the Bible we must endeavor to find out what a particular verse meant during the time it was written and not assume its meaning perfectly coheres with our modern times.

"The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there." --J.P. Hartley

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 02:01 PM
I think we agree. Reconciliation is encouraged (1 Cor. 7:10–17) but who would want that and all of those creatures with that :granite: back in the marital bed? Deut 24:4, Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10 :shocked:

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/sea-animals/crabby-crab-smiley-emoticon.gif

...because of forgiveness.

If a person repents.

Interplanner
July 21st, 2015, 02:13 PM
Any person reading I Cor 7 several times will really only notice one thing different: the role of fathers in granting marriage. Otherwise there is another difference but it doesn't have to do with marriage per se. It is that the end of the world was expected so soon, that Paul didn't think there was much point (and maybe a lot of grief--not conflict with each other, but grief of loss) because the end of the world was so soon.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 02:13 PM
Exactly.

As serious students of the Bible we must endeavor to find out what a particular verse meant during the time it was written and not assume its meaning perfectly coheres with our modern times.

"The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there." --J.P. Hartley

Things that were different that I currently know of.

1.) Jesus was primarily speaking to Jews and was responding to questions from Jews when it came to marriage.. Jews who were still bound to the Old Covenant at the time. Are Christians bound to the same covenant?

2.) Paul and the Apostles were speaking to Christians and taught very differently about marriage.. who takes precedence if we say all scripture is equally inspired?

3.) Women could not initiate divorce at all back then.

4.) Men did not always divorce their wives.. there was the custom of putting away a wife which was pretty fraudulent.

5.) Men had multiple wives back then. It was common among first century Christians too.. hence we have the restriction on elders only having one wife.

Its a tangled mess.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 02:22 PM
Its a tangled mess.

Only what you say is.

aikido7
July 21st, 2015, 02:29 PM
Things that were different that I currently know if.


1.) Jesus was primarily speaking to Jews and was responding to question from Jews when it came to marriage.. Jews who were still bound to the Old Covenant at the time. Are Christians bound to the same covenant?The Jesus I see is one who would have clearly rejected the Gentiles. He clearly indicated his mission was only to "the House of Israel." He mocked the Gentiles and called them "dogs." I see it as up to the individual believer as to whether to decide their relationship with the "Old Covenant."

Most of Jesus' unique teachings are found in the Hebrew Bible and were a necessary part of Judean tradition and history.


2.) Paul and the Apostles were speaking to Christians and taught very differently about marriage.. who takes precedence if we say all scripture is equally inspired?This depends on how one reads Paul, since his cultural pronouncements are contradictory. I think this has to do with ignoring his actual letters where the radical Paul holds forth and by preferencing those letters which are forgeries.


3.) Women could not initiate divorce at all back then.I am not sure this is true. It seems to me that I remembered a different history as Elaine Pagels has documented, but I could be wrong. One thing that sticks in my mind would be that it was always the man who could initiate a divorce, simply because the Christian notion is that patriarchy is mandated from God.


4.) Men did not always divorce their wives.. there was the custom of putting away a wife which was pretty fraudulent.That's interesting; I have never heard that before.

5.) Men had multiple wives back then. It was common among first century Christians too.. hence we have the restriction on elders only having one wife.David, Solomon and other famous Jewish/Christian patriarchs are granted the right to have more than one wife.


Its a tangled mess.I agree--I have found the whole matter much more complicated than most Christians will admit.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 02:50 PM
I agree--I have found the whole matter much more complicated than most Christians will admit.

Hence there are quite a few long books written on the subject and they rarely agree.

I think God asks us to be long suffering and always try and do the right thing. Sometimes that does involve granting a spouse a divorce if they want one or decide to leave and not reconcile. He want's us to go above and beyond to reconcile the issues and even pay more than is required. He also asks us to live in peace with one another and sometimes that is impossible.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 02:51 PM
Hence there are quite a few long books written on the subject and they rarely agree.

I think God asks us to be long suffering and always try and do the right thing. Sometimes that does involve granting a spouse a divorce if they want one or decide to leave and not reconcile. He want's us to go above and beyond to reconcile the issues and even pay more than is required. He also asks us to live in peace with one another and sometimes that is impossible.

Jesus says do not remarry and do not marry someone who has been divorced.

HisServant
July 21st, 2015, 02:55 PM
But these people blaspheme all that they do not understand, and they are destroyed by all that they, like unreasoning animals, understand instinctively. 11 Woe to them! For they walked in the way of Cain and abandoned themselves for the sake of gain to Balaam’s error and perished in Korah’s rebellion. 12 These are hidden reefs at your love feasts, as they feast with you without fear, shepherds feeding themselves; waterless clouds, swept along by winds; fruitless trees in late autumn, twice dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.

aikido7
July 21st, 2015, 03:30 PM
Hence there are quite a few long books written on the subject and they rarely agree.

I think God asks us to be long suffering and always try and do the right thing. Sometimes that does involve granting a spouse a divorce if they want one or decide to leave and not reconcile. He want's us to go above and beyond to reconcile the issues and even pay more than is required. He also asks us to live in peace with one another and sometimes that is impossible.The history of how Christians have interpreted, changed and believed about divorce and marriage is full of diverse opinions.

Bright Raven
July 21st, 2015, 03:33 PM
Jesus says do not remarry and do not marry someone who has been divorced.

Does he forgive those who do?

Interplanner
July 21st, 2015, 04:15 PM
The first part of "God's Truth" is not quite correct: he says don't marry or remarry divorced people who were not cheated. He also says don't remarry unless you were cheated. The other candidates to be married are never-marrieds and widowed. The field is therefore that narrow.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 04:41 PM
Does he forgive those who do?

Do they know it is wrong and are sorry for it and ask for forgiveness?

Bright Raven
July 21st, 2015, 04:42 PM
Do they know it is wrong and are sorry for it and ask for forgiveness?

Yes, should they be forgiven?

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 04:51 PM
The first part of "God's Truth" is not quite correct: he says don't marry or remarry divorced people who were not cheated.
Nowhere anywhere in the Bible does it say that.




He also says don't remarry unless you were cheated. The other candidates to be married are never-marrieds and widowed. The field is therefore that narrow.

Jesus says do not remarry and if you divorce someone who has not cheated---you make them an adulterer.

You need to think about it more.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 04:52 PM
Yes, should they be forgiven?

You are going to have to answer questions.

God who knows the heart forgives those He accepts.

Bright Raven
July 21st, 2015, 05:00 PM
You are going to have to answer questions.

God who knows the heart forgives those He accepts.

And you don't?

Matthew 6:14-15 Modern English Version (MEV)

14 For if you forgive men for their sins, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men for their sins, neither will your Father forgive your sins.

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 05:06 PM
And you don't?

Matthew 6:14-15 Modern English Version (MEV)

14 For if you forgive men for their sins, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men for their sins, neither will your Father forgive your sins.

You need to stop falsely judging people.

Repent to God and prove your repentance by stop falsely judging me.

Bright Raven
July 21st, 2015, 05:10 PM
You need to stop falsely judging people.

Repent to God and prove your repentance by stop falsely judging me.

I see no judgement. It is God's requirement. You just don't get it, do you?

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 06:09 PM
I see no judgement. It is God's requirement. You just don't get it, do you?

Maybe you don't get it?

Bright Raven
July 21st, 2015, 07:22 PM
Maybe you don't get it?

Guess not. You don't get it about forgiveness either do you?

serpentdove
July 21st, 2015, 07:43 PM
...because of forgiveness.

If a person repents.If they're breathing :chew: there's hope (Ac 17:27). :thumb:

God's Truth
July 21st, 2015, 09:19 PM
If they're breathing :chew: there's hope (Ac 17:27). :thumb:

I believe that even after they die they have hope...as long as they can repent, and before the Lord comes again, because when he comes again, it will not be to bear sin.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.


When Jesus comes again, it will be too late.

HisServant
July 22nd, 2015, 07:26 AM
I believe that even after they die they have hope...as long as they can repent, and before the Lord comes again, because when he comes again, it will not be to bear sin.

Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.


When Jesus comes again, it will be too late.

Such an unbiblical belief... but since everything you post is unbiblical, it was expected.

It seems you believe in some sort of pergatory or second chance... but scripture is explicit, you die and then face judgement.

God's Truth
July 22nd, 2015, 07:35 AM
Such an unbiblical belief... but since everything you post is unbiblical, it was expected.

It seems you believe in some sort of pergatory or second chance... but scripture is explicit, you die and then face judgement.

Some people never hear the truth and then they die.

Jesus went to Hell to preach the gospel to those there so that they can live according to God in regard to the spirit (1 Peter 4:5-6).

Jesus is the judge and if someone repents while Jesus still bears our sins, then what is it to you?

HisServant
July 22nd, 2015, 07:49 AM
Some people never hear the truth and then they die.

Jesus went to Hell to preach the gospel to those there so that they can live according to God in regard to the spirit (1 Peter 4:5-6).

Jesus is the judge and if someone repents while Jesus still bears our sins, then what is it to you?

So you think Jesus is still in hell preaching? If not, then he is leaving some who believe in hell till the last judgement. The preaching in hell was a one time deal.. its over.

You just aren't consistent... your theology is all over the map.

God's Truth
July 22nd, 2015, 07:52 AM
So you think Jesus is still in hell preaching?

How would you ever think that?




If not, then he is leaving some who believe in hell till the last judgement. The preaching in hell was a one time deal.. its over.

You just aren't consistent... your theology is all over the map.

When a person dies they face judgment. Are you saying they are put in Hell without judgment?

HisServant
July 22nd, 2015, 08:33 AM
How would you ever think that?



When a person dies they face judgment. Are you saying they are put in Hell without judgment?

Obviously, you really havent put much thought into the post I was comenting on.

Use that gray matter the lord put between your ears and go back and read it.

PneumaPsucheSoma
July 22nd, 2015, 08:50 AM
I let her go as scriptures require and gave her a bill of divorce... scripture say that I am no longer bound to her and may do as I please.

I stayed single for 9 years after she left.. never divorce and never looked to remarry.

Then God brought someone into my life... I've had the happiest 7 years of my life being married to her. To think God did not have his hand in us meeting and has not blessed us is to be ignorant.


Christians are NOT to make Vows... which renders wedding vows to be an act of sin. Hence, I did not make any vows, all we did was sign the paperwork in front of witnesses... to satisfy the legal requirements for a marriage license.


I just hope that someday you are bound by the same chains that you are so intent on putting others in.

People make mistakes... Jesus knew that.

The other problem is you are taking snippets of scripture out of the context and culture of what marriage meant to the intended audience and trying to apply them to today's marriage.

Its a huge error in teaching and you will all be held accountable for it someday... and it wont be pretty.


I did not put away my wife... she left of her own accord. It was only after 5 years of her being unrepentant and unwilling to reconcile that i granted her the divorce she wanted.

I am no longer bound to her... I should have actually granted her the divorce the first time she asked for one.

God has called us to peace... how can you reconcile your views of scripture that would permanently bind someone to a marriage of strife and loneliness?


Because they were used to taking a new wife whenever they wanted without properly ending the previous marriage. There were women all over the place back then that were technically married, but not supported by their husbands and with no dowry to remarry.... because men were using marriage as a way to accumulate vast illgotten fortunes.

Basically, Jesus was using hyperbole to say to them that the exact opposite of what they were doing was just as lawful.

Anyhow... you really should keep your mouth shut unless you have actually spent time studying the context and culture of who Jesus was talking to and why.

Anyhow, I don't need anyones approval from this site... as the vast majority of the people here can be demonstrated to be idiots.... like you. You seem to be just about as smart as a box of rocks.

Exactly. Don't let indoctrinated pseudo-law-mongers put you under condemnation.

The NT standard by Christ is to give a writ when putting away a spouse, just as it was in Deuteronomy 24:1-4. The penalty for adultery was death by stoning, not divorce.

A wife may not be put away for "any cause" or without a writ. We have no modern comparison for the issue being addressed in Matt. 19 and the parallels.

Men were putting away their innocent wives without a writ, branding them as adulteresses for life and leaving them to return in shame to their father's home or resort to prostitution to survive.

And anyone remarrying such a woman was then also considered an adulterer, simply because she had no writ.

It was Jesus addressing an exploited inequity of Theocratic law for a specific people group. He gave the example of what a heart should be in marriage, which was being violated by men who were greedy and lustful, and were shaming their innocent wives for life.

Jesus was addressing Jewish verbal divorce for a writ-based marriage. Paul was later addressing Roman verbal divorce for a writ-based marriage.

The issue is the verbal divorcement of putting away a spouse without a writ. The typology is Christ fulfilling written prophecy as our husband, and fulfilling all that was written as being the very Logos of God.

Our word does not and cannot disannul Him and His covenant of marriage, despite human weakness in not being able to exemplify that standard.

HisServant
July 22nd, 2015, 09:11 AM
If you understand though, that even then, you are not to remarry, then maybe you will wait for her to come back, or live as a single person.

I understand that Paul says that I am no longer bound to her (free to marry someone else).

HisServant
July 22nd, 2015, 09:20 AM
Exactly. Don't let indoctrinated pseudo-law-mongers put you under condemnation.


Thanks... it just amazes me how many people are quick to condemn people for things they think they understand in scripture and refuse to do their homework because they are afraid it might not be as cut and dry as they think.

I stay away from such people these days... you cannot argue with them because they wont give an inch because they are afraid their little world will come crashing down.

aikido7
July 22nd, 2015, 10:46 AM
Most of the early Christians--taking after Jesus himself--believed divorce was never to be permitted.

HisServant
July 22nd, 2015, 10:49 AM
Most of the early Christians--taking after Jesus himself--believed divorce was never to be permitted.

Proof please for such a wild assertion. (and its a lie... you will find out).

Here would be a good place to start... and you will find that your theology on this is more based on Catholicism than the early church.

https://bible.org/seriespage/18-divorce-teachings-early-church

aikido7
July 22nd, 2015, 11:14 AM
Proof please for such a wild assertion. (and its a lie... you will find out).

First, let's both look at what Jesus himself said in Matthew 9:6:

"...what God has joined together, let man not separate." (Matthew 19:6).

The context of this pronouncement is equally important, for most Jews of Jesus' day thought divorce was allowable in certain cases.

In the Book of Malachi, God says that he hated divorce.

Athenagoras, a Christian father who lived about 150 years after Jesus, contrasts Christian marriage and behavior with the "incestuous licentiousness of the pagans and their gods." For him, the only Christian options are the single life or a single marriage. Remarriage is out of the question. In other words, Athenagoras followed most other Christians back then that God designed for a man to have no more than one wife in his lifetime.

Christian polemicist Justin Martyr quoted Jesus and declared that any divorced woman should never be allowed to re-marry.

The great Jewish teacher Shammi said only infidelity (only on the part of the wife, of course) was grounds for divorce, while the liberal rabbi Hillel said divorce was permissible for just about any reason--"even if," he declared "she burn his soup."

R.M. Grant in Early Christianity and Society devotes an entire chapter to the conflict between early Christians and pagans in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries over the topic of divorce. The people who thought it was important to follow Jesus believed that divorce was forbidden. The early church father Tertullian in his Apology also advocated this same position for his Christian adherents.

P. Gorday in Principles of Patristic Excess and Romans 8-11 in Origen, John Chrysostom and Augustine clearly show the bulk of Christians not only believed in staying married but also advocated celebicy for some--even in marriage itself.

And Paul--who remained single as his life--said his bottom line was that no one should be married ("...I wish that all men were even as I myself."

Even as late as the Council of Trent in 1563 Pope Pius IV spoke about those who chose remain in virginity or celibacy than to be united in matrimony let him be anathema."

To claim the writings and behavior of early Christians to be "wild" and "a lie" when it comes to divorce clearly contradicts the efforts and research of scholars and historians who have studied the matter all their lives.

I hope you do your own research on this and don't just take my--or anyone else's--word for it.

HisServant
July 22nd, 2015, 11:35 AM
First, let's both look at what Jesus himself said in Matthew 9:6:

"...what God has joined together, let man not separate." (Matthew 19:6).

The context of this pronouncement is equally important, for most Jews of Jesus' day thought divorce was allowable in certain cases.

In the Book of Malachi, God says that he hated divorce.

Athenagoras, a Christian father who lived about 150 years after Jesus, contrasts Christian marriage and behavior with the "incestuous licentiousness of the pagans and their gods." For him, the only Christian options are the single life or a single marriage. Remarriage is out of the question. In other words, Athenagoras followed most other Christians back then that God designed for a man to have no more than one wife in his lifetime.

Christian polemicist Justin Martyr quoted Jesus and declared that any divorced woman should never be allowed to re-marry.

The great Jewish teacher Shammi said only infidelity (only on the part of the wife, of course) was grounds for divorce, while the liberal rabbi Hillel said divorce was permissible for just about any reason--"even if," he declared "she burn his soup."

R.M. Grant in Early Christianity and Society devotes an entire chapter to the conflict between early Christians and pagans in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries over the topic of divorce. The people who thought it was important to follow Jesus believed that divorce was forbidden. The early church father Tertullian in his Apology also advocated this same position for his Christian adherents.

P. Gorday in Principles of Patristic Excess and Romans 8-11 in Origen, John Chrysostom and Augustine clearly show the bulk of Christians not only believed in staying married but also advocated celebicy for some--even in marriage itself.

And Paul--who remained single as his life--said his bottom line was that no one should be married ("...I wish that all men were even as I myself."

Even as late as the Council of Trent in 1563 Pope Pius IV spoke about those who chose remain in virginity or celibacy than to be united in matrimony let him be anathema."

To claim the writings and behavior of early Christians to be "wild" and "a lie" when it comes to divorce clearly contradicts the efforts and research of scholars and historians who have studied the matter all their lives.

I hope you do your own research on this and don't just take my--or anyone else's--word for it.

Sigh... you went the hearsay route and threw the evidence right out of the window.

There is no talking to people who believe evidence is irrevalent like you.

For instance, you never even acknowledged the idea of a disciplining divorce.

Also, most of your paraphrases of early church writings are wildly out of context.

Sigh.

meshak
July 22nd, 2015, 11:43 AM
First, let's both look at what Jesus himself said in Matthew 9:6:

"...what God has joined together, let man not separate." (Matthew 19:6).

The context of this pronouncement is equally important, for most Jews of Jesus' day thought divorce was allowable in certain cases.

In the Book of Malachi, God says that he hated divorce.

Jesus also said divorce was never God's will. Moses permitted divorce because they were just sinful, it was too high standard for OT people.

When Jesus says He came down to fulfill the law, meaning He was sent to fulfill the way it was supposed to in the first place.

Jesus upgraded OT laws to rightful way.

so we better not go back to OT's law standards.

God's Truth
July 22nd, 2015, 01:34 PM
I understand that Paul says that I am no longer bound to her (free to marry someone else).

No longer bound but cannot marry anyone else.

You didn't know when you divorced and remarried, and now you know.

God's Truth
July 22nd, 2015, 01:37 PM
Exactly. Don't let indoctrinated pseudo-law-mongers put you under condemnation.

The NT standard by Christ is to give a writ when putting away a spouse, just as it was in Deuteronomy 24:1-4. The penalty for adultery was death by stoning, not divorce.

A wife may not be put away for "any cause" or without a writ. We have no modern comparison for the issue being addressed in Matt. 19 and the parallels.

Men were putting away their innocent wives without a writ, branding them as adulteresses for life and leaving them to return in shame to their father's home or resort to prostitution to survive.

And anyone remarrying such a woman was then also considered an adulterer, simply because she had no writ.

It was Jesus addressing an exploited inequity of Theocratic law for a specific people group. He gave the example of what a heart should be in marriage, which was being violated by men who were greedy and lustful, and were shaming their innocent wives for life.

Jesus was addressing Jewish verbal divorce for a writ-based marriage. Paul was later addressing Roman verbal divorce for a writ-based marriage.

The issue is the verbal divorcement of putting away a spouse without a writ. The typology is Christ fulfilling written prophecy as our husband, and fulfilling all that was written as being the very Logos of God.

Our word does not and cannot disannul Him and His covenant of marriage, despite human weakness in not being able to exemplify that standard.

Psalm 40:8 I desire to do your will, my God; your law is within my heart."

HisServant
July 22nd, 2015, 01:38 PM
No longer bound but cannot marry anyone else.

You didn't know when you divorced and remarried, and now you know.

What i do know is you are a persistant liar that refuses to learn the truth....and everyone this site should be aware of it.

God's Truth
July 22nd, 2015, 01:38 PM
Obviously, you really havent put much thought into the post I was comenting on.

Use that gray matter the lord put between your ears and go back and read it.

You are married now and will you ever divorce and remarry? Why or why not?