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Elia
July 14th, 2015, 12:03 AM
Bs'd

Shalom dear readers,

Hereby I want to tell you about the one true God, and give you shocking facts and data that has been suppressed by the Christian church for 2000 years. This was done by, amongst other things, burning Bible translators on the stake, mass burnings of Bible translations and corrupting Bible translations.
But now the truth is out. Look here:

http://mountzion.notlong.com

whitestone
July 14th, 2015, 12:19 AM
have you ever been to the Kidron Vally?

WizardofOz
December 11th, 2015, 04:38 AM
Let us hope and pray that the real Messiah may come speedily, in our days, and that the third everlasting Temple shall be build rapidly.

:juggle:

heir
December 11th, 2015, 05:04 AM
The messiah didn't come yetMatthew 3:1-17 KJV

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 05:15 AM
Matthew 3:1-17 KJV

Bs"d

From this page: http://MountZion.notlong.com

Let us take a look at the prophetic qualities of Jesus.

In Matthew 4:17 he claims that the kingdom of heaven is at hand..

Now, almost 2000 years later, the kingdom is still not here.

This claim of Jesus to return soon in order to judge the whole world is all over the New Testament. Look for instance in Revelations 1:1-3, idem 3:11, idem 22:6, 10-12, 20. Everywhere here is spoken about a soon return and the early Christian communities were expecting the return of Christ in their lifetimes, as we can read in I Corinthians 7:29, Romans 13:11-12, and I Peter 4:7. Their belief in a return of Christ in their lifetimes was based upon very clear, not to be misunderstood statements of Jesus. Look for an impressive prophesy in Mark 13:24-30: "The sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light. And the stars of heaven will fall and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then he shall send his angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven ….. Verily I say to you, that this generation shall not pass till all these things be done." -----See also Matthew 24:29-35 and Luke 21;25-33. .

This generation passed away almost 2000 years ago, and no one has seen him coming back on the clouds to establish his kingdom of peace and gather in his elected Christians.



In Matthew 16:27-28 Jesus says: "For the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here which shall not taste of death till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom." See also Mark 9:1

Did anybody see him coming in his kingdom? Is every man already rewarded according to his works?... But some of them would not die until they would have seen him coming in his kingdom!...Are they still around today?....Even Methuselah didn't live that long!

From this we must conclude that Jesus has a very poor resume as a prophet. What does the Holy Torah that the only eternal G.d gave to the Jewish people say about this?

Deuteronomy 18:20-22: "But the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart; how shall we know the word that the LORD has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing follows not, nor come to pass, this is the thing that the LORD has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you shall not be afraid of him."

Here G.d commands the Jewish people to execute false prophets, who are prophets whose prophecies do not come true. Jesus is a perfect example of a prophet whose prophecy did not come true.



"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 05:17 AM
have you ever been to the Kidron Vally?

Bs"d

Yes.




"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

WizardofOz
December 11th, 2015, 05:20 AM
Yup, that's more of your recycled cut and paste material that's all over the web word for word. :yawn:

Truster
December 11th, 2015, 05:36 AM
Bs'd

Shalom dear readers,

Hereby I want to tell you about the one true God, and give you shocking facts and data that has been suppressed by the Christian church for 2000 years. This was done by, amongst other things, burning Bible translators on the stake, mass burnings of Bible translations and corrupting Bible translations.
But now the truth is out. Look here:

http://mountzion.notlong.com

For you that is true, but for me, He came in power and saved that which was lost.

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 06:16 AM
For you that is true, but for me, He came in power and saved that which was lost.

Bs"d

The truth is the truth. For everybody.

The truth is that your messiah didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

The truth is that your messiah was not in male line a descendant of king David, and therefore disqualified from being the messiah.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

heir
December 11th, 2015, 06:59 AM
Bs"d

The truth is the truth. For everybody.

The truth is that your messiah didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

The truth is that your messiah was not in male line a descendant of king David, and therefore disqualified from being the messiah.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15
The truth is, you are a liar.

Ktoyou
December 11th, 2015, 07:09 AM
The truth is, you are a liar.

:up:

Ktoyou
December 11th, 2015, 07:13 AM
Bs'd

Shalom dear readers,

Hereby I want to tell you about the one true God, and give you shocking facts and data that has been suppressed by the Christian church for 2000 years. This was done by, amongst other things, burning Bible translators on the stake, mass burnings of Bible translations and corrupting Bible translations.
But now the truth is out. Look here:



:blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla::blabla:

The truth is you have not the sense to find a forum, which supports your views, or?:troll: with nothing better to do.

SaulToPaul
December 11th, 2015, 07:20 AM
The truth is, you are a liar.

Another shall come in his own name, and Elia will accept him.

Truster
December 11th, 2015, 07:25 AM
Bs"d

The truth is the truth. For everybody.

The truth is that your messiah didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies.

The truth is that your messiah was not in male line a descendant of king David, and therefore disqualified from being the messiah.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

The truth is the Messiah, ''I AM the Truth'' and you have not received Him. He came unto to me in power and that moment is eternal in its consequences.

''Yah Shua saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me''.

Caino
December 11th, 2015, 07:34 AM
The Messiah as conceived of by the Jews never will come. Collectively Israel is a false prophet nation, discredited and artificial, resurrected and supported by the pity of Western nations. They live in the delusion of their exaggerated history, a creation of the Hebrew priest of Babylon, perpetuated by the prophesier's of the religious establishment.

Your Messiah is MIA.

Truster
December 11th, 2015, 07:38 AM
Bs'd

Shalom dear readers,

Hereby I want to tell you about the one true God, and give you shocking facts and data that has been suppressed by the Christian church for 2000 years. This was done by, amongst other things, burning Bible translators on the stake, mass burnings of Bible translations and corrupting Bible translations.
But now the truth is out. Look here:

http://mountzion.notlong.com

You remind me of a person belonging to a tribe that has been cut off from society for hundreds of years. Some one then appears and begins to explain about modern society, but the person is unable and therefore unwilling to believe or trust in anything he's been told. They also refuse to look at anything given as proof and refuse to leave the shelter they have built.

In your ignorance you will glorify Yah Veh Elohim in manifesting His word, ''That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them'' and His judicial wrath.

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 07:44 AM
You remind me of a person belonging to a tribe that has been cut off from society for hundreds of years. Some one then appears and begins to explain about modern society,

Bs"d

God doesn't change: "God, who is enthroned from of old, who does not change"
Psalm 55:19

His laws are the same, then and now.

“So you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this same day I will have brought your armies out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as an everlasting ordinance."
Ex 12:17

"In the tabernacle of meeting, outside the veil which is before the Testimony, Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening until morning before the Lord. It shall be a statute forever to their generations on behalf of the children of Israel."
Ex 27:21]

"This shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings: you shall eat neither fat nor blood.’”
Leviticus 3:17

"You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings."
Leviticus 23:14

“‘Now if you as a community unintentionally fail to keep any of these commands the Lord gave Moses— 23 any of the Lord’s commands to you through him, from the day the Lord gave them and continuing through the generations to come" Numbers 15:23

There is much, much more like this, saying the law stands forever, for all generations.

There is no such a thing as: "The messiah will come and abolish the law". It just doesn't exist.

And, of course, JC himself also said the exact opposite of what the Christians say:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matt 5

So also JC agrees: The law stands forever.

It is only Paul who comes up with the idea that the law is abolished, but who is Paul that he thinks he can abolish the law??


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 07:45 AM
The truth is, you are a liar.

Bs"d

Prove it.

If you can't prove it, you are the liar.




"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 07:48 AM
The truth is the Messiah, ''I AM the Truth'' and you have not received Him. He came unto to me in power and that moment is eternal in its consequences.

''Yah Shua saith unto him, I am the way, the truth.

Bs"d

So he claimed to have the truth.

Well, so did Mohammed, David Koresh, Joseph Smith, and many, many others.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 07:59 AM
The Messiah as conceived of by the Jews never will come. Collectively Israel is a false prophet nation, discredited and artificial, resurrected and supported by the pity of Western nations.

Bs"d

The Western nations were just the pawns used by God.

God brought back and is bringing back the Jews to the promised land.

"Do not be afraid, for I am with you;
I will bring your children from the east
and gather you from the west.
6
I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’
and to the south, ‘Do not hold them back.’
Bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the ends of the earth—
7
everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made.”
Isaiah 43

Ezekiel 20:34 - "I will bring you from the nations and gather you from the countries where you have been scattered -- with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm and with outpoured wrath."

Isaiah 11:11-12 NIV - "In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria, from Lower Egypt, from Upper Egypt, from Cush, from Elam, from Babylonia, from Hamath and from the islands of the sea. He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth."


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

HisServant
December 11th, 2015, 08:11 AM
There really is no reason to listen to a wanna be Jew on this matter.... true Jews are extinct and God made sure of that in AD70.

Truster
December 11th, 2015, 08:16 AM
Bs"d

So he claimed to have the truth.

Well, so did Mohammed, David Koresh, Joseph Smith, and many, many others.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

Adonay Messiah Yah Shua didn't just claim to have the truth. He stated He is the Truth. The Eternal Word. The Creator and Sustainer of all.

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 08:21 AM
There really is no reason to listen to a wanna be Jew on this matter.... true Jews are extinct and God made sure of that in AD70.

Bs"d

The Christian churches believe in the theory that G.d rejected His chosen people, and that instead the Christians are the new spiritual Israel. However, G.d says clearly in the Holy Torah that He will never break his covenant with the Jewish people, even not when they stray away from Him. When the Jews go astray G.d will punish them. (Leviticus 26:14-17)
And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them seven times harder. (Lev:18-22)
And if they then still don't listen, G.d will punish them another seven times harder. (Lev:23-24)
And if they then still refuse to turn back to G.d, He will punish them another seven times harder. (Lev:27-28)
But despite all this, G.d will not break His covenant with the Jewish people: Leviticus 26:44-45; "And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."

"Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying: The two families that Y-H-W-H hath chosen, He has even cast them of? Thus they have despised My people, that they should no more be a nation before them. Thus saith Y-H-W-H: If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: for I will cause their captivety to return and have mercy on them." Jeremiah 33:24-26

If G.d rejected the Jews, why then is He now fulfilling the prophecies that He will gather in the Jews and bring them back to their land? "Fear not, for I am with thee, I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west. I will say to the north; give up, and to the south; keep not back: Bring my sons from far, and My daughters from the ends of the earth." Isaiah 43:5+6 The whole world witnesses this miracle, how after almost 2000 years of dispersion over the whole earth the Jews are returning to Israel. In just 50 years a state has been built from scratch, the Hebrew language has been revived. Is there any precedent in history for this? Is there any other people that was dispersed throughout the whole world for almost 2000 years that held on to their identity and their religion?
Surely we see here the hand of G.d.


"And yet for all that, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them: For I am Y-H-W-H their G.d. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their G.d: I am Y-H-W-H."
Leviticus 26:44-45


Gods covenant with the Jews will NEVER be broken!



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 08:23 AM
Adonay Messiah Yah Shua didn't just claim to have the truth. He stated He is the Truth. The Eternal Word. The Creator and Sustainer of all.

Bs"d

Everybody can make that claim, so the value of that hovers around zero.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

Truster
December 11th, 2015, 08:25 AM
Bs"d

Everybody can make that claim, so the value of that hovers around zero.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

Name one other person who claimed to be "The Truth".

jamie
December 11th, 2015, 08:56 AM
Your rabbis in the video said, "There G.d gave to the Jewish people the Holy Torah, which is the first five books of the Bible; Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. This does not only contain the Ten Commandments, but it contains a total of 613 commandments that G.d commanded the Jewish people to fulfill."

Why do you not believe them?

Elia
December 16th, 2015, 11:53 PM
Your rabbis in the video said, "There G.d gave to the Jewish people the Holy Torah, which is the first five books of the Bible; Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. This does not only contain the Ten Commandments, but it contains a total of 613 commandments that G.d commanded the Jewish people to fulfill."

Why do you not believe them?

Bs"d

Why would you think I don't believe them??



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

daqq
December 17th, 2015, 12:14 AM
"In the tabernacle of meeting, outside the veil which is before the Testimony, Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening until morning before the Lord. It shall be a statute forever to their generations on behalf of the children of Israel."
Ex 27:21]

Because the evening and the morning are the day, (first light and full light). :)
Oops, wrong thread . . . :chuckle:

Caino
December 17th, 2015, 06:25 AM
Bs"d

God doesn't change: "God, who is enthroned from of old, who does not change"
Psalm 55:19

His laws are the same, then and now.

“So you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this same day I will have brought your armies out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as an everlasting ordinance."
Ex 12:17

"In the tabernacle of meeting, outside the veil which is before the Testimony, Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening until morning before the Lord. It shall be a statute forever to their generations on behalf of the children of Israel."
Ex 27:21]

"This shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings: you shall eat neither fat nor blood.’”
Leviticus 3:17

"You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings."
Leviticus 23:14

“‘Now if you as a community unintentionally fail to keep any of these commands the Lord gave Moses— 23 any of the Lord’s commands to you through him, from the day the Lord gave them and continuing through the generations to come" Numbers 15:23

There is much, much more like this, saying the law stands forever, for all generations.

There is no such a thing as: "The messiah will come and abolish the law". It just doesn't exist.

And, of course, JC himself also said the exact opposite of what the Christians say:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
Matt 5

So also JC agrees: The law stands forever.

It is only Paul who comes up with the idea that the law is abolished, but who is Paul that he thinks he can abolish the law??


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

The Laws of Judaism are man made. Moses, the reformer of previous beliefs and practices, establish new man made laws for the largely ignorant slaves and other nomads who joined them after fleeing Egypt.

When the Hebrews redacted Israelite history in Babylon they produced an exaggerated Hollywood fiction leaving the average Jews with a false hope of nationalist glory.

Elia
December 17th, 2015, 06:56 AM
The Laws of Judaism are man made. Moses, the reformer of previous beliefs and practices, establish new man made laws for the largely ignorant slaves and other nomads who joined them after fleeing Egypt.

Bs"d

As the Torah clearly says; the laws are given by God.


When the Hebrews redacted Israelite history in Babylon they produced an exaggerated Hollywood fiction leaving the average Jews with a false hope of nationalist glory.

What do you mean with "false hope of nationalist glory"?

You mean the Jews never had "nationalistic glory"?

You mean they don't have it right now?

The history of the Jews is imbued with the supernatural. You have to blind not to see it:

Over the past two hundred years thinkers have pondered the metaphysics of Jewish survival. They appear to marvel at this phenomenon. For example, Leo Tolstoy in his “What is the Jew?” wrote: (9)

“What is the Jew? This is not as strange a question as it would first appear to be. Come let us contemplate what kind of unique creature is this whom all the rulers and all the nations of the world have disgraced and crushed and expelled and destroyed; persecuted, burned and drowned, and who, despite their anger and their fury, continues to live and flourish. What is this Jew, whom they have never succeeded in enticing with all the enticements in the world, whose oppressors and persecutors only suggested that he deny [and disown] his religion and cast aside the faithfulness of his ancestors?!
The Jew is the symbol of eternity. He is the one they were never able to destroy, neither bloodbath nor afflictions, neither fire nor the sword succeeded in annihilating him. He is the one who for so long has guarded the prophetic message and transmitted it to all mankind. A people such as this can never disappear. The Jew is eternal. He is the embodiment of eternity.”


In his book “The Ancient World” Professor T.R. Glover similarly wrote: (10)

“No ancient people had a history stranger than the Jews..... The history of no ancient people should be so valuable, if we could only recover it and understand it.... Stranger still, the ancient religion of the Jews survives, when all the religions of every ancient race of the pre-Christian world have disappeared. Again, it is strange that the living religions of the world all build on the religious ideas derived from the Jews..... This then is the problem offered by the Jews to the historian. The great matter is not “What happened?” but “Why did it happen?” Why does this race continue? Why does Judaism live? How did it really begin? Why did it come out so?”


Professor Nicholas Berdkilaev, of the Moscow Academy of Spiritual Culture, in his book “The Meaning of History” commented thus: (11)

“The Jews have played an all-important role in history. They are pre-eminently a historical people and their destiny reflects indestructibility..... their destiny is to imbued with the metaphysical to be explained either in material or positive-historical terms. I remember how the materialist interpretation of history, when I attempted in my youth to verify it by applying to it the destinies of people, broke down in the case of the Jews, where destiny seemed absolutely inexplicable from the materialistic standpoint. And, indeed, according to the materialistic and positivist criterion, this people ought to have perished long ago. Its survival is a mysterious and wonderful phenomenon demonstrating that the life of this people is governed by a special predetermination, transcending the process of adaptation expounded by the materialistic interpretation of history. The survival of the Jews, their resistance to destruction, their endurance under absolute peculiar conditions and the fatefull role played by them in history, all these points point to the particular and mysterious foundations of their destiny.”


The eighteenth-century Talmudic scholar, Rabbi Jonathan Eibeschutz, commented: (12)

“Will the atheist not be embarrassed when he reflects on Jewish history? We, an exiled people, scattered sheep from antiquity, have endured brutal persecution over thousands of years. There is no nation or people as persued as we. Many and powerfull are those who aspired to totally destroy us, but they never prevailed. How will the wise philosopher respond? Is this extraordinary phenomenon truly by chance?”


Dr Isaac Breuer wrote: (13)

“The “People of the Book” among the nations is the most fantastic miracle of all, and the history of this people is literally one of miracles. And one who sees this ancient people today, after thousands of years among the nations of the world, when he reads the Scriptures and finds that they prophetically relate clearly and simply the ever-transpiring Jewish phenomenon, and does not fall on his face and exclaim: “God, the Lord of Israel, He is God”, then no other miracle will help him. For, in truth, this individual has no heart to understand, no eye to discern, and no ear to hear.”



The French author Jon DeBileda, during the latter part of the ninetheenth century, (i.e. before the Russian Revolution, nazi Germany, and the modern Jewish state) described the situation thusly: (14)

“In essence, the Jewish People chuckle at all forms of anti-Semitism. Think all you want, and you will not be able to find one form of brutality or strategy that has not been used in warfare against the Jewish People. 'I cannot be defeated', says Judaism. All that you attempt to do to me today has been attempted 3,200 years ago in Egypt. Then tried the Babylonians and Persians. Afterward tried the Romans, and then others and others..... There is no question that the Jews will outlive us all. This is an eternal people..... They cannot be defeated, understand this! Every war with them is a vain waste of time and manpower. Conversely, it is wise to sign a mutual covenant with them. How trustworthy and profitable they are as allies. Look at their patriotism, their commercial benefit, and their ambition and their success in science, the arts, and politics. Be their friend and they will pay you back in friendship one-hundred-fold. This is an exalted and chosen people.”




A more modern-day example of the Jewish people survival mechanism was interestingly described in the secular Israeli newspaper “Maariv” (April 17, 1983) concerning the Jewish State's War of Independence in 1948: (15)

“Is this how things really happened? Just as they are told in the history books? And 650,000 Jews who escaped from the horrors of the Second World War and from the cruel struggle with the oppressive British – did they really build up this whole infantry on their own efforts? Six hundred and fifty thousand who created a nation-state from emptiness and desolation? And they stood in bitter warfare against the organized armies of five Arab countries? Five percent of the Jewish people, and not only did they strike a blow against every enemy that stood up against them, but absorbed hundreds of thousands of refugees from the remnants of European and Middle East Jewry. By all logic, and by all human reason, everything that happened in 1948 is in the category of the impossible. It was impossible with the limited arms that the Jews possessed, with the rudimentary international support they managed to gather, with the limited resources that were available to them, to do all that they did. To bring a system of public services in operation from nothing. To establish a military industry from its beginning. To sustain supplies and minimal services, and to run a war that had no clear delineated front or rear lines, no organized lines of defense, no organized reserves of ammunition, and no expert commanders to lead its battalions!”



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

WeberHome
December 20th, 2015, 11:45 AM
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The Rich Man, Lazarus, And Abraham

Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though
untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only
untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story
about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a
boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the
other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly
be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable-- farmers sowing
seed, women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares
among the wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the
blind, et al.

Now; if he had told one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese;
we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy;
but none of them are like that. No; there's nothing out of the ordinary in his
parables. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never
fantasy because none of them are so far removed from the normal round of
human experience that they have no basis in reality whatsoever.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable
theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life
man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent
religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God
(Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among
normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something
untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about one of his Father's
buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the
story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said
things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the
commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No,
it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro
managed.

†. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.

†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things
as the Father taught me.

†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates
that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the
truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous
seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

His impeccable character is what makes that narrative all the more
terrifying. Unless somebody can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that
Christ's Father is a tale-spinner; I pretty much have to assume the narrative
was drawn from real-life; and if not drawn from real life, then at least based
upon real life.

In other words: there really is an afterlife place of conscious suffering where
people endure unbearable anxiety worrying that loved ones are on a road to
where they are and there is no way to warn them.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

jamie
December 20th, 2015, 02:05 PM
In the parable the rich man is a portrayal of the Jews and the beggar portrays the Gentiles.

The beggar died and, although a Gentile, was carried into a close relationship with Abraham (Galatians 3:29)

The rich man died and requested a warning be sent to his brothers.

He was told they have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

The rich man claimed that if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.

The point of the parable is if they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.

And so it is today.

Elia
December 22nd, 2015, 06:30 AM
In the parable the rich man is a portrayal of the Jews and the beggar portrays the Gentiles.

The beggar died and, although a Gentile, was carried into a close relationship with Abraham (Galatians 3:29)

The rich man died and requested a warning be sent to his brothers.

He was told they have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

The rich man claimed that if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.

The point of the parable is if they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.

And so it is today.

Bs"d

And this is what Moses says:



שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

jamie
December 22nd, 2015, 09:44 AM
And this is what Moses says:


And this is what Jesus says, "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel." (Mark 1:15 NKJV)

What gospel?


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed." (Galatians 3:8 NKJV)

How so?


...that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. (Galatians 3:14 NKJV)

The promise of the Spirit is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

Because the law is weak through the flesh it holds no promise of eternal life. On the contrary, the soul that sins shall die.

Your law is a law of death. No thanks.

Elia
December 22nd, 2015, 12:10 PM
And this is what Jesus says, "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand.

Bs"d

And with that statement he made a horrible mistake:

In Matthew 4:17 he claims that the kingdom of heaven is at hand..

Now, almost 2000 years later, the kingdom is still not here.

This claim of Jesus to return soon in order to judge the whole world is all over the New Testament. Look for instance in Revelations 1:1-3, idem 3:11, idem 22:6, 10-12, 20. Everywhere here is spoken about a soon return and the early Christian communities were expecting the return of Christ in their lifetimes, as we can read in I Corinthians 7:29, Romans 13:11-12, and I Peter 4:7. Their belief in a return of Christ in their lifetimes was based upon very clear, not to be misunderstood statements of Jesus. Look for an impressive prophesy in Mark 13:24-30: "The sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light. And the stars of heaven will fall and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then he shall send his angels and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven ….. Verily I say to you, that this generation shall not pass till all these things be done." -----See also Matthew 24:29-35 and Luke 21;25-33. .

This generation passed away almost 2000 years ago, and no one has seen him coming back on the clouds to establish his kingdom of peace and gather in his elected Christians.



In Matthew 16:27-28 Jesus says: "For the son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here which shall not taste of death till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom." See also Mark 9:1

Did anybody see him coming in his kingdom? Is every man already rewarded according to his works?... But some of them would not die until they would have seen him coming in his kingdom!...Are they still around today?....Even Methuselah didn't live that long!

From this we must conclude that Jesus has a very poor resume as a prophet. What does the Holy Torah that the only eternal G.d gave to the Jewish people say about this?

Deuteronomy 18:20-22: "But the prophet which shall presume to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart; how shall we know the word that the LORD has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing follows not, nor come to pass, this is the thing that the LORD has not spoken, but the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you shall not be afraid of him."

Here G.d commands the Jewish people to execute false prophets, who are prophets whose prophecies do not come true. Jesus is a perfect example of a prophet whose prophecy did not come true.



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

False Prophet
December 22nd, 2015, 12:19 PM
Jesus did not come the way religion said he was going to come the first time, and Jesus is not coming back the way religion said he is coming back the second time. While they are preaching "Peace and safety"; destruction comes upon them like a woman in travail. Do we see the possibility of mass destruction today? Scoffers come in the last days saying, "Where is the day of his coming?" They ignore the fact that in Noah's day that the world was deluged and destroyed by water, but in our day the world will be purged with fire!
3 It is most important for you to understand what will happen in the last days. People will laugh at you. They will live doing the evil things they want to do. 4 They will say, “Jesus promised to come again. Where is he? Our fathers have died, but the world continues the way it has been since it was made.” 5 But they do not want to remember what happened long ago. By the word of God heaven was made, and the earth was made from water and with water. 6 Then the world was flooded and destroyed with water. 7 And that same word of God is keeping heaven and earth that we now have in order to be destroyed by fire. They are being kept for the Judgment Day and the destruction of all who are against God. 2 Pet 3

jamie
December 22nd, 2015, 12:58 PM
In Matthew 4:17 he claims that the kingdom of heaven is at hand..


The kingdom is still at hand, it's as close as a person's last breath.

jamie
December 22nd, 2015, 01:10 PM
This claim of Jesus to return soon in order to judge the whole world is all over the New Testament.


Jesus said He did not come to judge the world but to save the world.

False Prophet
December 22nd, 2015, 08:49 PM
Well of course Jesus is coming back tomorrow!

Elia
December 23rd, 2015, 07:42 AM
The kingdom is still at hand, it's as close as a person's last breath.

Bs"d

That's what he said 2000 years ago.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

jamie
December 23rd, 2015, 09:28 AM
That's what he said 2000 years ago.


And it's still available today.


Oh come, let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before YHVH our Maker. For He is our God and we are the people of His pasture and the sheep of His hand.

Today, if you will hear His voice do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion, as in the day of trial in the wilderness...
(Psalm 95:6-8 NKJV)

Elia
December 24th, 2015, 06:22 AM
Well of course Jesus is coming back tomorrow!

Bs"d

Well, since he didn't, you totally live up to you name.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, My refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.”"
Jer 16:19

SonOfCaleb
December 25th, 2015, 02:03 PM
The Taldmud, the Torah, the Targums and the Midrash, including the entirety of the Hebrew scriptures are replete with indications as to when the promised Messiah would come.

Matter of fact the knowledge of when the Messiah would come was so well known circa 2BC - 1AD that even Herod who wasnt a Jew was fearful of this coming 'King' as Herod erroneously assumed that this King was going to usurp his throne. Little did Herod know that this Kings throne although in the line of David was not an earthly one.
Even the stiff necked Pharisees didnt doubt the timing of the prophecy and when they expected the Messiah to appear.

Considering there are no records that exist on the lineage of this Messiah today, who was prophesied to come through the line of David -the twig of Jesse- as they were destroyed in 70AD when the Romans sacked Jerusalem, and those same records were used to prove Jesus lineage prior to the destruction of Jerusalem hence why Luke recorded them in the gospel of Luke, how exactly does Judaism expect to confirm the lineage of this Messiah they're still waiting on?

Elia
December 28th, 2015, 12:39 PM
Bs"d

Why would anybody think that somebody who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies was the messiah??



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

dialm
December 28th, 2015, 12:57 PM
Bs"d

Why would anybody think that somebody who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies was the messiah??



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

Don't you know what faith is? Besides, why are you making such a big deal over an Earthly kingdom? Christians don't have the same goals that you have. We don't want what you want.


Let's say that Israel becomes the leading nation of the world. Then what?

Elia
December 28th, 2015, 02:27 PM
Don't you know what faith is? Besides, why are you making such a big deal over an Earthly kingdom? Christians don't have the same goals that you have. We don't want what you want.


Let's say that Israel becomes the leading nation of the world. Then what?

Bs"d

It is not about what you want, it is not about what I want, it is about what the messianic prophecies say the messiah is going to do.
THAT he has to do.

Does somebody claim to be the messiah, and he doesn't fulfil the messianic prophecies, than he is not the messiah.

It is that simple.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

SonOfCaleb
December 28th, 2015, 02:35 PM
Bs"d

Why would anybody think that somebody who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies was the messiah??



Quite easily...Because Jesus DID fulfill ALL of the Messianic prophecy's. There's no one else past, present or in the future outside of Jesus that could rightfully claim to be the Messiah.

Elia
December 28th, 2015, 02:41 PM
Quite easily...Because Jesus DID fulfill ALL of the Messianic prophecy's.

Bs"d

Except for the following ones:

Who and what is the messiah? Let us check according to the Holy Hebrew scriptures what the messiah is supposed to do. .......

Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."

Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.

Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.

In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus' failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least 2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption. Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and coming back thousands of years later.

Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."

When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'. However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way that the above prophecy was fulfilled.

.

Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.


There's no one else past, present or in the future outside of Jesus that could rightfully claim to be the Messiah.

The one who is going to fulfil the messianic prophecies, he will be the messiah.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

SonOfCaleb
December 28th, 2015, 02:57 PM
And here's a list of scriptures that prove Jesus was the Messiah:-

Prophecy Event Fulfillment
Ge 49:10 Born of the tribe Mt 1:2-16; Lu 3:23-33; Heb 7:14
of Judah
Ps 132:11; From the family of Mt 1:1, 6-16; 9:27; Ac 13:22, 23;
Isa 9:7; David the son of Ro 1:3; 15:8,*12
11:1, Jesse
11:10
Mic 5:2 Born in Bethlehem Lu 2:4-11; Joh 7:42
Isa 7:14 Born of a virgin Mt 1:18-23; Lu 1:30-35
Jer 31:15 Babes killed after Mt 2:16-18
his birth
Ho 11:1 Called out of Mt 2:15
Egypt
Mal 3:1; Way prepared Mt 3:1-3; 11:10-14;
4:5; before 17:10-13; Lu 1:17, 76;
Isa 40:3 3:3-6; 7:27; Joh 1:20-23;
3:25-28; Ac 13:24; 19:4
Isa 61:1, 2 Commissioned Lu 4:18-21
Isa 9:1, 2 Ministry caused Mt 4:13-16
people in Naphtali
and Zebulun to see
great light
Ps 78:2 Spoke with Mt 13:11-13, 31-35
illustrations
Isa 53:4 Carried our Mt 8:16,*17
sicknesses
Ps 69:9 Zealous for Mt 21:12, 13; Joh 2:13-17
Jehovah’s house
Isa 42:1-4 As Jehovah’s Mt 12:14-21
servant, would not
wrangle in streets
Isa 53:1 Not believed in Joh 12:37, 38; Ro 10:11,*16
Zec 9:9; Entry into Mt 21:1-9; Mr 11:7-11;
Ps 118:26 Jerusalem on colt Lu 19:28-38;
of an ***; hailed Joh 12:12-15
as king and one
coming in Jehovah’s
name
Isa 28:16; Rejected but Mt 21:42, 45, 46; Ac 3:14;
53:3; becomes chief 4:11; 1Pe 2:7
Ps 69:8; cornerstone
118:22, 23
Isa 8:14, 15 Becomes stone of Lu 20:17, 18; Ro 9:31-33
stumbling
Ps 41:9; One apostle Mt 26:47-50; Joh 13:18, 26-30;
109:8 unfaithful, betrays Ac 1:16-20
him
Zec 11:12 Betrayed for 30 Mt 26:15; 27:3-10; Mr 14:10,*11
pieces of silver
Zec 13:7 Disciples scatter Mt 26:31, 56; Joh 16:32
Ps 2:1, 2 Roman powers and Mt 27:1,*2; Mr 15:1, 15;
leaders of Israel Lu 23:10-12; Ac 4:25-28
act together against
anointed of Jehovah
Isa 53:8 Tried and condemned Mt 26:57-68; 27:1, 2, 11-26;
Joh 18:12-14, 19-24, 28-40;
19:1-16
Ps 27:12 Use of false Mt 26:59-61; Mr 14:56-59
witnesses
Isa 53:7 Silent before Mt 27:12-14; Mr 14:61;
accusers 15:4,*5; Lu 23:9
Ps 69:4 Hated without cause Lu 23:13-25; Joh 15:24,*25
Isa 50:6; Struck, spit on Mt 26:67; 27:26, 30; Joh 19:3
Mic 5:1
Ps 22:16, ftn
Impaled Mt 27:35; Mr 15:24, 25;
Lu 23:33; Joh 19:18, 23;
20:25, 27
Ps 22:18 Lots cast for Mt 27:35; Joh 19:23,*24
garments
Isa 53:12 Numbered with Mt 26:55, 56; 27:38;
sinners Lu 22:37
Ps 22:7, 8 Reviled while on Mt 27:39-43; Mr 15:29-32
stake
Ps 69:21 Given vinegar and Mt 27:34, 48; Mr 15:23,*36
gall
Ps 22:1 Forsaken by God to Mt 27:46; Mr 15:34
enemies
Ps 34:20; No bones broken Joh 19:33,*36
Ex 12:46
Isa 53:5; Pierced Mt 27:49; Joh 19:34, 37;
Zec 12:10 Re 1:7
Isa 53:5, Dies sacrificial Mt 20:28; Joh 1:29;
8, death to carry away Ro 3:24; 4:25; 1Co 15:3;
11, sins and open way Heb 9:12-15; 1Pe 2:24;
12 to righteous 1Jo 2:2
standing with God
Isa 53:9 Buried with the Mt 27:57-60; Joh 19:38-42
rich
Jon 1:17; In grave parts of Mt 12:39, 40; 16:21; 17:23;
2:10 three days, then 27:64; 28:1-7; Ac 10:40;
resurrected 1Co 15:3-8
Ps 16:8-11, ftn
Raised before Ac 2:25-31; 13:34-37
corruption
Ps 2:7 Jehovah declares Mt 3:16, 17; Mr 1:9-11;
him His Son by Lu 3:21, 22; Ac 13:33;
spirit begetting Ro 1:4; Heb 1:5; 5:5
and by resurrection


The Messiah was clearly not what the Pharisees expected hence why they rejected Jesus and Israel/Jerusalem suffered their terrible fate at the hands of the Romans in 70AD.
That being said even the Pharisees knew the Messiah would be a "Son of David" coming from the line of Judah. Matter of fact even the Demons that Jesus cast out via various miracles were able to identify Jesus as the Messiah or the 'Chosen one of God'.
All the records containing the lineages of each tribe were destroyed by the Romans when Jerusalem was sacked. So how do you expect to identify your Messiah and what salvation can this Messiah you're expecting offer to mankind?

Elia
December 28th, 2015, 11:10 PM
And here's a list of scriptures that prove Jesus was the Messiah:

Bs"d

And here you can read why that is all lies and deceit:

https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/324x0


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

Elia
December 28th, 2015, 11:15 PM
Bs"d

And here are the texts from the Hebrew Bible, brought to us by the NT while claiming they are "messianic prophecies".

This really is an eye opener: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/nt-prophecies



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

SonOfCaleb
December 29th, 2015, 04:38 AM
Bs"d

And here you can read why that is all lies and deceit:

https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/324x0


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

I get it you don't believe he was the Messiah....But to my original point which you haven't answered, HOW exactly are you expecting to identify yours when ALL the lineages were destroyed? Not only that you've been waiting as a 'nation' for the best part of 4000 years for your purported Messiah and deliverance. So again to my original question what about the salvation for the rest of mankind? Or does your Messiah only come to save the Jews and from what exactly?

Elia
December 29th, 2015, 05:39 AM
I get it you don't believe he was the Messiah....But to my original point which you haven't answered, HOW exactly are you expecting to identify yours when ALL the lineages were destroyed?

Bs"d

The whole point is: I don't HAVE to identify him. The messiah is going to do his thing, whether I or anybody else identifies him or not.

Identification is totally irrelevant.

And during the first destruction of the Temple, already the records were destroyed.
But nowadays we have DNA testing, but also that is superfluous, because when somebody fulfils the messianic prophecies, then we know he is the messiah.


Not only that you've been waiting as a 'nation' for the best part of 4000 years for your purported Messiah and deliverance. So again to my original question what about the salvation for the rest of mankind? Or does your Messiah only come to save the Jews and from what exactly?

God saves the Jews and the rest of mankind.

The messiah is simply going to be a king who will rule Israel, destroy the enemies of Israel, and in the end he will rule the whole world, and bring peace and prosperity to the whole world.

The messiah is not going to die for our sins, he is not going to deliver us from our sins, those are all Christian concepts which are nowhere to be found in the Tanach.

And therefore the whole messiah issue is a side point, which has no relevance for today.
He will come in the end of days, and that's it.

Christianity made a whole cultus around him, and made him God, which he is not going to be, he is going to be 100% human, not born from a virgin, they think he is going to deliver the whole world from their sins, points all non-existing in the Tanach.
He is just gonna be a king.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

SonOfCaleb
December 29th, 2015, 06:09 AM
Bs"d

The whole point is: I don't HAVE to identify him. The messiah is going to do his thing, whether I or anybody else identifies him or not.

Identification is totally irrelevant.

And during the first destruction of the Temple, already the records were destroyed.
But nowadays we have DNA testing, but also that is superfluous, because when somebody fulfils the messianic prophecies, then we know he is the messiah.

The lineages were not destroyed when Babylon took the Jews captive in 607BCE. We know this because Cyrus the Great allowed the Jews to return to their homeland where they rebuilt Jerusalem and the Temple and each family/tribe was reestablished as per the Mosaic Law.

Inheritances couldn't be identified without the lineages. Not only that the identity of the Messiah couldn't be verified either without the lineages. The family lineages of each tribe was zealously guarded hence why it was kept in the temple as these were integral to the Mosaic Law.

Your stance seems quite illogical to me, as the Jews have been waiting circa 4000 years for their Messiah as A) Your messiah is still yet to come after all these millennia and B) Even though you have no legitimate way of identifying him via his tribe -as the prophecy in Isaiah says he would come from the line of Judah being a descendant of David- according to you have no need to identify his lineage which even the Pharisees who were well versed with the written and oral law did.



God saves the Jews and the rest of mankind.

The messiah is simply going to be a king who will rule Israel, destroy the enemies of Israel, and in the end he will rule the whole world, and bring peace and prosperity to the whole world.

The messiah is not going to die for our sins, he is not going to deliver us from our sins, those are all Christian concepts which are nowhere to be found in the Tanach.

And therefore the whole messiah issue is a side point, which has no relevance for today.
He will come in the end of days, and that's it.

Christianity made a whole cultus around him, and made him God, which he is not going to be, he is going to be 100% human, not born from a virgin, they think he is going to deliver the whole world from their sins, points all non-existing in the Tanach.
He is just gonna be a king.



So presumably you think the salvation of mankind rests with the political entity that was created after WWII that is now the Nation State of Israel?

Elia
December 29th, 2015, 06:25 AM
The lineages were not destroyed when Babylon took the Jews captive in 607BCE. We know this because Cyrus the Great allowed the Jews to return to their homeland where they rebuilt Jerusalem and the Temple and each family/tribe was reestablished as per the Mosaic Law.

Bs"d

You don't need records for that, you can do that on testimony of the people involved.


Inheritances couldn't be identified without the lineages. Not only that the identity of the Messiah couldn't be verified either without the lineages. The family lineages of each tribe was zealously guarded hence why it was kept in the temple as these were integral to the Mosaic Law.

And the Temple was totally destroyed, about 500 years before your messiah came around.

But those supposed lineage records are totally irrelevant because your own books invalidate your messiah, because he was born to a married woman, but not from her husband, which makes him an illegitimate child, who can never be the messiah.

Also, because supposedly he had no human father, he was not in male line a descendant of king David, so also that rules him out.

Nothing to talk about.


Your stance seems quite illogical to me, as the Jews have been waiting circa 4000 years for their Messiah as A) Your messiah is still yet to come after all these millennia and B) Even though you have no legitimate way of identifying him via his tribe -as the prophecy in Isaiah says he would come from the line of Judah being a descendant of David- according to you have no need to identify his lineage which even the Pharisees who were well versed with the written and oral law did.

Where did they say that we really have to identify the messiah?


So presumably you think the salvation of mankind rests with the political entity that was created after WWII that is now the Nation State of Israel?

No, like I said, I think the salvation of mankind rests with God.

But yes, first the land of Israel will be restored, all the Jews will be gathered in from the exile, which we see now happening because of the increasing Jew hatred, Israel will grow to be the richest country, then Gog from Magog will attack Israel, he will be totally defeated, and Israel will rule the world.

Check it out in Ezechiel 38 and 39.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

patrick jane
December 29th, 2015, 09:14 AM
Bs"d

And here are the texts from the Hebrew Bible, brought to us by the NT while claiming they are "messianic prophecies".

This really is an eye opener: https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/nt-prophecies



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

If the Messiah hasn't come yet for Jews, like you claim, why can't the the Jews produce one from David's line ?

Letsargue
December 29th, 2015, 09:47 AM
Matthew 3:1-17 KJV


"CHRIST" came in AD70 Like He said He Would. - NOT "JESUS", OR "JESUS CHTIST" - the Trinity of the Son of His Father!!

((( How Can Christ be IN You, and You IN Him ))), IF He Has NOT Come yet?????????

IF Christ is Not in You, Then He has NOT Come TO YOU!!!!!!!!!

( 1 Corinthians 15:24 KJV ) -- 24- "Then cometh the end, when (( He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God )), even the Father; when (( He shall have put down all rule )) and all authority and power". --//-----------

Put "DOWN" All Power, Rule ,and Authority TO WHO??? - Not to Nations; BUT To the Individuals who Accept HIM IN THEM When He Came to them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
**
You in Him and He in You??? - How can that Be If He has not Come??
Where are You; in Heaven OR still on Earth???? -->>>
((((( Ephesians 2:5-6 KJV )))))!!!!!!!! -- READ IT, And Have "FAITH / CHRIST" In IT, OR Stay in HELL!!!!!!!

(( Read the BOOK ))!!!

((( Watch Your News )))!!

((((( PAUL, DAVID ))))) -- 122915

Ben Masada
December 29th, 2015, 09:55 AM
Well of course Jesus is coming back tomorrow!

Yah, tomorrow is always tomorrow; a tomorrow that never becomes today. It's not fair to the agnostic. If he doubts that Jesus is taking too long to come, those who believe can always excuse themselves by saying, "We did not say today but tomorrow. Be patience and wait."

Letsargue
December 29th, 2015, 11:06 AM
Yah, tomorrow is always tomorrow; a tomorrow that never becomes today. It's not fair to the agnostic. If he doubts that Jesus is taking too long to come, those who believe can always excuse themselves by saying, "We did not say today but tomorrow. Be patience and wait."


((( "C-H-R-I-S-T"!! ))) Said What "HE" SAID In the "(( SPIRITUAL ))", never in the Carnal; not a bunch of junk you all want to use for your own stupid "belief"!!!

Christ came and DID Exactly what He said He would, and When He said. - It's just that NONE Of You Blind Know-It-Alls Care a thing about the "TRUTH" / "CHRIST" / The "Word of GOD"!!!!!!!!!

To you all; there was a "Person" called Christ, or Jesus; - NO There Was NOT!!! - The "Truth", and the "Word of God" WAS Just Given a Personality for stupid peoples understanding!!!! - There WAS NOT Anyone, or Person Called Christ or Jesus, BUT THE - "TRUTH / THE WORD OF GOD", "and has KILLED YOU"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read it. -- What's written Is Just PARABLES Of G-O-D!!!!!!!!!!!!

((( Watch Your NEWS )))!!!!

PAUL, DAVID - 122915

SonOfCaleb
December 29th, 2015, 12:05 PM
If the Messiah hasn't come yet for Jews, like you claim, why can't the the Jews produce one from David's line ?

Because they don't and cant know what Davids line is.... and have no way of ever finding out any of the lineages of any of the tribes. The Torah says as per Genesis 49:10 "The scepter will not depart from Judah.."
Thus it was known from one of the earliest prophecy's by Moses who wrote most of the Torah that the Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah.

Its a confusing stance as according to Elia the Messiah "has no relevance today" and yet this same Messiah of "no relevance" is responsible for the salvation of the Jews first and Mankind/World in that order. In essence he believes the destiny of the human race is tied up directly in the salvation of the current Nation State of Israel.

SonOfCaleb
December 29th, 2015, 12:07 PM
Yah, tomorrow is always tomorrow; a tomorrow that never becomes today. It's not fair to the agnostic. If he doubts that Jesus is taking too long to come, those who believe can always excuse themselves by saying, "We did not say today but tomorrow. Be patience and wait."

Its been over 4000 years of waiting for the 'Jews'..... Neither 'Israel' when they came out of Egypt, nor the Jewish remnant that returned to their homeland after captivity in Babylon had to wait that long for the Messiah that was promised to each of them, Moses and Jesus respectively.

jamie
December 29th, 2015, 12:56 PM
Thus it was known from one of the earliest prophecy's by Moses who wrote most of the Torah that the Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah.


And Moses got that from Jacob's prophecy.


The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shiloh comes, and to Him shall be the obedience of the people. (Genesis 49:10 NKJV)


Shiloh is a reference to the Messiah.

SonOfCaleb
December 29th, 2015, 12:58 PM
And Moses got that from Jacob's prophecy.


The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shiloh comes, and to Him shall be the obedience of the people. (Genesis 49:10 NKJV)


Shiloh is a reference to the Messiah.

Exactly.

Elia
December 29th, 2015, 11:57 PM
Because they don't and cant know what Davids line is.... and have no way of ever finding out any of the lineages of any of the tribes. The Torah says as per Genesis 49:10 "The scepter will not depart from Judah.."
Thus it was known from one of the earliest prophecy's by Moses who wrote most of the Torah that the Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah.

Bs"d

What tribe somebody is from, goes through the father.

Since your messiah didn't have a human father, he not only is not in male line a descendant of king David, but you also have no idea what tribe he is from.

How more obvious can it be that your messiah is totally disqualified from being the messiah??

Combine this with the fact that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies, and for everybody with two working brain cells it is clear that he wasn't and couldn't have been the messiah.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction. The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.”"
Jer 16:19

Elia
December 30th, 2015, 12:17 AM
And Moses got that from Jacob's prophecy.


The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shiloh comes, and to Him shall be the obedience of the people. (Genesis 49:10 NKJV)


Shiloh is a reference to the Messiah.


Its been over 4000 years of waiting for the 'Jews'..... Neither 'Israel' when they came out of Egypt, nor the Jewish remnant that returned to their homeland after captivity in Babylon had to wait that long for the Messiah that was promised to each of them, Moses and Jesus respectively.

Bs"d

What you guys overlook is that the messiah is planned for the END OF DAYS.

Also in the above prophecy: "The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet until Shiloh comes" that is clearly written. See what Jacob says before he gives this prophecy about the messiah: "And Jacob called his sons and said, “Gather together, that I may tell you what shall befall you in the last days:"
Gen 49:1

Also in the following messianic prophecy, the messiah is to come IN THE END OF DAYS: "And now, indeed, I am going to my people. Come, I will advise you what this people will do to your people in the latter days.”
15 So he took up his oracle and said:
“The utterance of Balaam the son of Beor,
And the utterance of the man whose eyes are opened;
16
The utterance of him who hears the words of God,
And has the knowledge of the Most High,
Who sees the vision of the Almighty,
Who falls down, with eyes wide open:
17
“I see Him, but not now;
I behold Him, but not near;
A Star shall come out of Jacob;
A Scepter shall rise out of Israel,
And batter the brow of Moab,
And destroy all the sons of tumult."
Numbers 24

So you see the messiah is supposed to come in the end of days, and not before.



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of [B]Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

Elia
December 30th, 2015, 12:19 AM
If the Messiah hasn't come yet for Jews, like you claim, why can't the the Jews produce one from David's line ?

Bs"d

There are plenty of people who have a tradition that they are a descendant of David.



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

SonOfCaleb
December 30th, 2015, 03:27 AM
Bs"d

What tribe somebody is from, goes through the father.

Since your messiah didn't have a human father, he not only is not in male line a descendant of king David, but you also have no idea what tribe he is from.

How more obvious can it be that your messiah is totally disqualified from being the messiah??

Combine this with the fact that he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies, and for everybody with two working brain cells it is clear that he wasn't and couldn't have been the messiah.



No disrespect intended but this post doesn't make an iota of any sense. Ive already explained to you and provided you with scriptures on the lineage of Jesus. Its in the OT the NT as well as in your own holy books the Talmud, Torah etc. Ive also provided you with a slew of scriptures that prove CONCLUSIVELY Jesus WAS the prophesied Messiah which even the Pharisees didn't dispute.

I find it quite ironic that you doggedly insist Jesus wasn't the Messiah and yet you have no way via lineage of ever positively identifying yours as being a LEGITIMATE son of David and thus an heir to King David. The identification of the Messiah by his lineage being absolutely integral and paramount to the prophecy (Because of the MANY false Messiahs who emerged before and after Jesus), which you seem to be happy enough to conveniently dismiss as Jesus Messiah-ship doesn't fit your narrative.

So not only are you willing to dispense and ignore Jewish tradition, Jewish academic history and the Mosaic Law that was built entirely on the family's, each tribe and their lineages which was of vital importance for identifying legal inheritances hence why it was kept in the temple, you have no way of ever identifying yours using your OWN criteria. Thats deeply ironic. No wonder your wait for your Messiah and Jewish liberation has been so long..........

Elia
December 30th, 2015, 06:06 AM
No disrespect intended but this post doesn't make an iota of any sense. Ive already explained to you and provided you with scriptures on the lineage of Jesus. Its in the OT

Bs"d

Your man-god is NOWHERE to be found in the Tanach.

Saying otherwise is nonsense.


the NT

Your NT only provide two different genealogies of Joseph who wasn't his father, so that is totally useless.


as well as in your own holy books the Talmud, Torah etc.

From where do you get these crazy ideas???


Ive also provided you with a slew of scriptures that prove CONCLUSIVELY Jesus WAS the prophesied Messiah which even the Pharisees didn't dispute.

You only provided me with a slew of Tanach texts which have no bearing on the messiah whatsoever, and of those you claimed that they were "messianic prophecies fulfilled by your messiah".

This is not only dishonest, it is pure lying and deceit.

And that is what your religion is based on.

I told you, and I'll tell you again:

Here you can read why that is all lies and deceit:

https://sites.google.com/site/777mountzion/324x0

It is very simple: He didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies, therefore he was not the messiah.


I find it quite ironic that you doggedly insist Jesus wasn't the Messiah and yet you have no way via lineage of ever positively identifying yours as being a LEGITIMATE son of David and thus an heir to King David. The identification of the Messiah by his lineage being absolutely integral and paramount to the prophecy (Because of the MANY false Messiahs who emerged before and after Jesus), which you seem to be happy enough to conveniently dismiss as Jesus Messiah-ship doesn't fit your narrative.

It is again very simple: The one who will fulfil the messianic prophecies, that will be the messiah, and he will be from the house of David.

That's all we need to know."


O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction. The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.”"
Jer 16:19

Ben Masada
December 30th, 2015, 08:37 AM
Its been over 4000 years of waiting for the 'Jews'..... Neither 'Israel' when they came out of Egypt, nor the Jewish remnant that returned to their homeland after captivity in Babylon had to wait that long for the Messiah that was promised to each of them, Moses and Jesus respectively.

IMHO, the concept of a coming Messiah is not of the individual concept but of the collective one. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is. The Anointed One of the Lord. (Habakkuk 3:13)

Ben Masada
December 30th, 2015, 08:49 AM
((( "C-H-R-I-S-T"!! ))) Said What "HE" SAID In the "(( SPIRITUAL ))", never in the Carnal; not a bunch of junk you all want to use for your own stupid "belief"!!!

Christ came and DID Exactly what He said He would, and When He said. - It's just that NONE Of You Blind Know-It-Alls Care a thing about the "TRUTH" / "CHRIST" / The "Word of GOD"!!!!!!!!!

To you all; there was a "Person" called Christ, or Jesus; - NO There Was NOT!!! - The "Truth", and the "Word of God" WAS Just Given a Personality for stupid peoples understanding!!!! - There WAS NOT Anyone, or Person Called Christ or Jesus, BUT THE - "TRUTH / THE WORD OF GOD", "and has KILLED YOU"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read it. -- What's written Is Just PARABLES Of G-O-D!!!!!!!!!!!!

((( Watch Your NEWS )))!!!!

PAUL, DAVID - 122915

When a poster decides to start offending others, it is because he or she has realized that he or she does not have what it takes to discuss the Scriptures, especially with a Jew.

Ben Masada
December 30th, 2015, 08:56 AM
In the parable the rich man is a portrayal of the Jews and the beggar portrays the Gentiles.

The beggar died and, although a Gentile, was carried into a close relationship with Abraham (Galatians 3:29)

The rich man died and requested a warning be sent to his brothers.

He was told they have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them.

The rich man claimed that if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.

The point of the parable is if they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.

And so it is today.

And Jamie a portrayal of Paul at the climax of his struggle at Replacement Theology.

Ben Masada
December 30th, 2015, 09:03 AM
And here's a list of scriptures that prove Jesus was the Messiah:-

Prophecy Event Fulfillment
Ge 49:10 Born of the tribe Mt 1:2-16; Lu 3:23-33; Heb 7:14
of Judah
Ps 132:11; From the family of Mt 1:1, 6-16; 9:27; Ac 13:22, 23;
Isa 9:7; David the son of Ro 1:3; 15:8,*12
11:1, Jesse
11:10
Mic 5:2 Born in Bethlehem Lu 2:4-11; Joh 7:42
Isa 7:14 Born of a virgin Mt 1:18-23; Lu 1:30-35
Jer 31:15 Babes killed after Mt 2:16-18
his birth
Ho 11:1 Called out of Mt 2:15
Egypt
Mal 3:1; Way prepared Mt 3:1-3; 11:10-14;
4:5; before 17:10-13; Lu 1:17, 76;
Isa 40:3 3:3-6; 7:27; Joh 1:20-23;
3:25-28; Ac 13:24; 19:4
Isa 61:1, 2 Commissioned Lu 4:18-21
Isa 9:1, 2 Ministry caused Mt 4:13-16
people in Naphtali
and Zebulun to see
great light
Ps 78:2 Spoke with Mt 13:11-13, 31-35
illustrations
Isa 53:4 Carried our Mt 8:16,*17
sicknesses
Ps 69:9 Zealous for Mt 21:12, 13; Joh 2:13-17
Jehovah’s house
Isa 42:1-4 As Jehovah’s Mt 12:14-21
servant, would not
wrangle in streets
Isa 53:1 Not believed in Joh 12:37, 38; Ro 10:11,*16
Zec 9:9; Entry into Mt 21:1-9; Mr 11:7-11;
Ps 118:26 Jerusalem on colt Lu 19:28-38;
of an ***; hailed Joh 12:12-15
as king and one
coming in Jehovah’s
name
Isa 28:16; Rejected but Mt 21:42, 45, 46; Ac 3:14;
53:3; becomes chief 4:11; 1Pe 2:7
Ps 69:8; cornerstone
118:22, 23
Isa 8:14, 15 Becomes stone of Lu 20:17, 18; Ro 9:31-33
stumbling
Ps 41:9; One apostle Mt 26:47-50; Joh 13:18, 26-30;
109:8 unfaithful, betrays Ac 1:16-20
him
Zec 11:12 Betrayed for 30 Mt 26:15; 27:3-10; Mr 14:10,*11
pieces of silver
Zec 13:7 Disciples scatter Mt 26:31, 56; Joh 16:32
Ps 2:1, 2 Roman powers and Mt 27:1,*2; Mr 15:1, 15;
leaders of Israel Lu 23:10-12; Ac 4:25-28
act together against
anointed of Jehovah
Isa 53:8 Tried and condemned Mt 26:57-68; 27:1, 2, 11-26;
Joh 18:12-14, 19-24, 28-40;
19:1-16
Ps 27:12 Use of false Mt 26:59-61; Mr 14:56-59
witnesses
Isa 53:7 Silent before Mt 27:12-14; Mr 14:61;
accusers 15:4,*5; Lu 23:9
Ps 69:4 Hated without cause Lu 23:13-25; Joh 15:24,*25
Isa 50:6; Struck, spit on Mt 26:67; 27:26, 30; Joh 19:3
Mic 5:1
Ps 22:16, ftn
Impaled Mt 27:35; Mr 15:24, 25;
Lu 23:33; Joh 19:18, 23;
20:25, 27
Ps 22:18 Lots cast for Mt 27:35; Joh 19:23,*24
garments
Isa 53:12 Numbered with Mt 26:55, 56; 27:38;
sinners Lu 22:37
Ps 22:7, 8 Reviled while on Mt 27:39-43; Mr 15:29-32
stake
Ps 69:21 Given vinegar and Mt 27:34, 48; Mr 15:23,*36
gall
Ps 22:1 Forsaken by God to Mt 27:46; Mr 15:34
enemies
Ps 34:20; No bones broken Joh 19:33,*36
Ex 12:46
Isa 53:5; Pierced Mt 27:49; Joh 19:34, 37;
Zec 12:10 Re 1:7
Isa 53:5, Dies sacrificial Mt 20:28; Joh 1:29;
8, death to carry away Ro 3:24; 4:25; 1Co 15:3;
11, sins and open way Heb 9:12-15; 1Pe 2:24;
12 to righteous 1Jo 2:2
standing with God
Isa 53:9 Buried with the Mt 27:57-60; Joh 19:38-42
rich
Jon 1:17; In grave parts of Mt 12:39, 40; 16:21; 17:23;
2:10 three days, then 27:64; 28:1-7; Ac 10:40;
resurrected 1Co 15:3-8
Ps 16:8-11, ftn
Raised before Ac 2:25-31; 13:34-37
corruption
Ps 2:7 Jehovah declares Mt 3:16, 17; Mr 1:9-11;
him His Son by Lu 3:21, 22; Ac 13:33;
spirit begetting Ro 1:4; Heb 1:5; 5:5
and by resurrection


The Messiah was clearly not what the Pharisees expected hence why they rejected Jesus and Israel/Jerusalem suffered their terrible fate at the hands of the Romans in 70AD.
That being said even the Pharisees knew the Messiah would be a "Son of David" coming from the line of Judah. Matter of fact even the Demons that Jesus cast out via various miracles were able to identify Jesus as the Messiah or the 'Chosen one of God'.
All the records containing the lineages of each tribe were destroyed by the Romans when Jerusalem was sacked. So how do you expect to identify your Messiah and what salvation can this Messiah you're expecting offer to mankind?

I read them all and I did not perceive any reference at all to Jesus as the Messiah. Why? The Messiah son of David is a reference to the king Messiah, not to the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 which is a personal identification with Israel, the Jewish People. (Isa. 41:8,9; 44:1,2,21; Habakkuk 3:13)

Caino
December 31st, 2015, 07:08 AM
There were other suitable people and cultures on earth that could have been blessed with the incarnation of the Son of God but Abrahams descendants having the propensity for leadership were chosen in no small part because of their geographical location in the world as the intersection of the cultural centers and trade routes. It was the best location for the spread of the gospel message of Christ.

But like the lottery often goes to the heads of the winners, being selected went to the heads of the Jews. A religion evolved around it blinding them to the simple concept of Abrams faith in the Father.

Ben Masada
December 31st, 2015, 09:16 AM
No, he hasn't and he will never come as long as we think of him as an individual. But if we try to understand the collective concept of the Messiah, he has come three times already. The first time was from Egypt when the Messianic leader aka Moses made the Exodus possible.

The second time was from Babylon when the Messianic leaders in Ezra & Nehemiah, in the spirit of Elijah, came ahead of the Messiah to prepare the Temple for the return of the Messiah.

The third time was from the four corners of the world when Theodor Herzl inspired the Messiah with love for Zion and died trying to make possible his Messianic mission.

The Messiah cannot be an individual because, the Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's what the Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord. (Habakkuk 3:13)

The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37)

Ben Masada
December 31st, 2015, 09:23 AM
There were other suitable people and cultures on earth that could have been blessed with the incarnation of the Son of God but Abrahams descendants having the propensity for leadership were chosen in no small part because of their geographical location in the world as the intersection of the cultural centers and trade routes. It was the best location for the spread of the gospel message of Christ.

But like the lottery often goes to the heads of the winners, being selected went to the heads of the Jews. A religion evolved around it blinding them to the simple concept of Abrams faith in the Father.

The message of "Christ" was Judaism if we all are aware that Jesus was a Jew, whose Faith was Judaism. Jesus had never even dreamed that Christianity would ever rise.

Caino
December 31st, 2015, 09:56 AM
The message of "Christ" was Judaism if we all are aware that Jesus was a Jew, whose Faith was Judaism. Jesus had never even dreamed that Christianity would ever rise.

Jesus established "the kingdom of heaven" God is king of that kingdom. as opposed to the Jewish idea of The Kingdom of Israel.

Jesus was born/incarnate into Judaism, a monotheistic religion geographically located in the best place for his Original Gospel to go out into the world. Judaism was Theologically suited for the gospel Jesus taught; that all men and women of earth are in fact Sons and daughters of God, that by faith we may realize this ennobling truth.

God delegates powers and authority in his creators Sons with whom he is indivisibly unified in divine oneness.

Jesus, in unison with his heavenly Father is your maker Ben. I'm sympathetic with your stubbornness but the facts are what they are.

It's difficult however to understand why you deny so much and pretend like Jesus was just an average practicing Jew who has been exaggerated and venerated by other common Jews of his day.

Elia
January 1st, 2016, 12:41 AM
Jesus established "the kingdom of heaven" God is king of that kingdom.

Bs"d

That of course is a claim that nobody can check out. Like the saying goes: "If you are going to lie, speak of far off places".

But anyway, like Gods prophets proclaim in the Hebrew Bible, the messiah is supposed to set up an EARTHLY kingdom, and not an invisible kingdom in the sky.

And in that, your messiah totally failed. He didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies. And therefore he was not the messiah.


as opposed to the Jewish idea of The Kingdom of Israel. That is not only a Jewish idea, that is what is written in the Tanach, that the messiah will do that.

[quote]

Jesus was born/incarnate into Judaism, a monotheistic religion

As opposed to Christianity, where a whole divine family is worshipped.



Jesus, in unison with his heavenly Father is your maker Ben.

No he is not. Our Maker is the one and only God Y-H-W-H who is one.



It's difficult however to understand why you deny so much and pretend like Jesus was just an average practicing Jew who has been exaggerated and venerated by other common Jews of his day.

Because that's what he was.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction. The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things. Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know My hand and My might; and they shall know that My name is Y-H-W-H.”
Jer 16:19-21

turbosixx
January 2nd, 2016, 08:36 AM
Bs'd

Shalom dear readers,

Hereby I want to tell you about the one true God, and give you shocking facts and data that has been suppressed by the Christian church for 2000 years. This was done by, amongst other things, burning Bible translators on the stake, mass burnings of Bible translations and corrupting Bible translations.
But now the truth is out. Look here:

http://mountzion.notlong.com

I have a question. What do you make of Daniel 2?
40 Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces……44 In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

I believe everyone agrees that the 4th kingdom is the Roman Empire. Did God set up his kingdom during that time as the prophecy states?

Elia
January 3rd, 2016, 05:48 AM
I have a question. What do you make of Daniel 2?
40 Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces……44 In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

I believe everyone agrees that the 4th kingdom is the Roman Empire. Did God set up his kingdom during that time as the prophecy states?

Bs"d

According to my humble opinion, the fourth kingdom were the romans, the fifth, the feet of iron mixed with clay, will be "united" europe, and Gods everlasting kingdom, will the rule of the Jews over the whole earth.

So the kingdom of God is not yet established, just like the last one of iron and clay.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

OCTOBER23
January 3rd, 2016, 06:36 AM
ELIA ,

It says , NO GOD FORMED - IN FRONT OF MY FACE .

The lord is chastising the Hebrews for making IDOLS and that is all He is doing.

-----------------------------------

06440 פנים paniym paw-neem’ pl. (but always as sing.) of an unused noun פנה paneh paw-neh’

from 06437; n m; [BDB-815b] {See TWOT on 1782 @@ "1782a" }

AV-before 1137, face 390, presence 76, because 67, sight 40, countenance 30, from 27, person 21, upon 20, of 20, *…*me 18, against 17, *…*him 16, open 13, for 13, toward 9, misc 195; 2109

1) face
1a) face, faces
1b) presence, person
1c) face (of seraphim or cherubim)
1d) face (of animals)
1e) face, surface (of ground)
1f) as adv of loc/temp
1f1) before and behind, toward, in front of, forward, formerly, from beforetime, before
1g) with prep
1g1) in front of, before, to the front of, in the presence of, in the face of, at the face or front of, from the presence of, from before, from before the face of
=======================

03335 יצר yatsar yaw-tsar’

probably identical with 03334 (through the squeezing into shape), ([compare 03331]); v; [BDB-427b] {See TWOT on 898 }

AV-form 26, potter 17, fashion 5, maker 4, frame 3, make 3, former 2, earthen 1, purposed 1; 62

1) to form, fashion, frame
1a) (Qal) to form, fashion
1a1) of human activity
1a2) of divine activity
1a2a) of creation
1a2a1) of original creation
1a2a2) of individuals at conception
1a2a3) of Israel as a people
1a2b) to frame, pre-ordain, plan (fig. of divine) purpose of a situation)
1b) (Niphal) to be formed, be created
1c) (Pual) to be predetermined, be pre-ordained
1d) (Hophal) to be formed

turbosixx
January 3rd, 2016, 07:29 AM
Bs"d

According to my humble opinion, the fourth kingdom were the romans, the fifth, the feet of iron mixed with clay, will be "united" europe, and Gods everlasting kingdom, will the rule of the Jews over the whole earth.

So the kingdom of God is not yet established, just like the last one of iron and clay.


"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

Just so you know, I’m on this forum to challenge my thinking as well as others, and I mean no disrespect.

Obviously I’m looking at this from the perspective of a Gentile. From my perspective, you’re looking at this with too much bias. Daniel only mentions four kingdoms and in the parallel dream in chapter 7 there are only four kingdoms. It’s obvious that Jesus lived during the Roman Empire and made a huge impact that lasts today and will to the end of time.

From my understanding, when God’s people in the OT were acting up he would send persecutions of differing types to wake them up so they would turn back to him. I see the same thing today. The temple was destroyed by the Romans coming up on 2,000 years ago. Without the temple and the priesthood, God cannot be worshiped as he instructed. For over 1,300 years, a false religious sanctuary has occupied the temple mount. Since the fall of man God has never gone even close to this long without interaction with his people.

I’m curious what you think. If Jesus isn’t the Messiah, why do you think God has not answered the cries of his people for over 2,000 years?

Ben Masada
January 3rd, 2016, 10:02 AM
Jesus established "the kingdom of heaven" God is king of that kingdom. as opposed to the Jewish idea of The Kingdom of Israel.

Jesus was born/incarnate into Judaism, a monotheistic religion geographically located in the best place for his Original Gospel to go out into the world. Judaism was Theologically suited for the gospel Jesus taught; that all men and women of earth are in fact Sons and daughters of God, that by faith we may realize this ennobling truth.

God delegates powers and authority in his creators Sons with whom he is indivisibly unified in divine oneness.

Jesus, in unison with his heavenly Father is your maker Ben. I'm sympathetic with your stubbornness but the facts are what they are.

It's difficult however to understand why you deny so much and pretend like Jesus was just an average practicing Jew who has been exaggerated and venerated by other common Jews of his day.

If you believe that Jesus was a Jew, you have no choice but to believe that he is dead. According to the Word of God aka the Tanach, every one once dead will never return from the grave. (II Sam. 12:23; 14:14; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9).

Elia
January 4th, 2016, 12:45 AM
I’m curious what you think. If Jesus isn’t the Messiah, why do you think God has not answered the cries of his people for over 2,000 years?

Bs"d

If he was the messiah, then why is he not answering the cries of the Christians who are slaughtered by the millions by the muslims?

And what makes you think that God doesn't answer the cries of His people?

Why do you think the state of Israel is back again, and why is God gathering in the Jewish people in Israel?

The endgame is beginning.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

Caino
January 4th, 2016, 05:26 AM
If you believe that Jesus was a Jew, you have no choice but to believe that he is dead. According to the Word of God aka the Tanach, every one once dead will never return from the grave. (II Sam. 12:23; 14:14; Isaiah 26:14; Job 7:9).

I have plenty of "choice" as I am not confined to the fetish of the Jews religion or their failed prophecies and priestly writings. And according to >you< there is no life beyond death, so your faith is for nothing!

As for Jesus he resurrected a likeness of himself from the dead (just as he told his enemies in Jerusalem that he would do) and appeared to a number of believers before returning to his rightful place on high a soveregne Lord and God of this world.

Judaism served its purpose but developed a closed minded, nationalist ego leaving you with false expectations of your place in the world.

Then, tragically, you lost your calling.

Caino
January 4th, 2016, 05:36 AM
Bs"d

If he was the messiah, then why is he not answering the cries of the Christians who are slaughtered by the millions by the muslims?

And what makes you think that God doesn't answer the cries of His people?

Why do you think the state of Israel is back again, and why is God gathering in the Jewish people in Israel?

The endgame is beginning.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H!.”
Joshua 24:14-15

God isn't Santa Claus, mankind has a responsibility to govern itself and protect the innocent.

During the Holocaust there was a female prisoner of a concentration camp who survived to recant a popular saying. She bemoaned how fellow prisoners lemented "where is God?" Her question was "where is humanity?"

God hasn't gathered the Jews back to Israel any more than he saved millions from the Holocaust or any other Genocide on earth carried out by ignorant humans in power. The Jews simply started going back to their sentimental homeland assisted by Western nations after the horror of WWII.

SonOfCaleb
January 4th, 2016, 10:50 AM
God isn't Santa Claus, mankind has a responsibility to govern itself and protect the innocent.

During the Holocaust there was a female prisoner of a concentration camp who survived to recant a popular saying. She bemoaned how fellow prisoners lemented "where is God?" Her question was "where is humanity?"

God hasn't gathered the Jews back to Israel any more than he saved millions from the Holocaust or any other Genocide on earth carried out by ignorant humans in power. The Jews simply started going back to their sentimental homeland assisted by Western nations after the horror of WWII.

The basis for the recreation of the Nation State of Israel actually started as far back as the middle 1800s. Assisted by the British & Americans, and an extremely wealthy and powerful Zionist lobby, the creation of Israel was ENTIRELY political. The building blocs for its creation stretching back as far as WWI. Thus its very apparent its creation has absolutely nothing to do with Biblical prophecy.

It boggles the mind to think that large sections of Jewish society, as well as the Christian right in the USA actually believe mankinds salvation is tied up in Jewish nationalism. The irony is the majority of the those living in Israel by blood alone aren't even Jewish anyway. Either way the Christian Rights and Zionist interpretation of end time prophecy and eschatology is a particular skewed if not a sordid one. When Armageddon does come and Jesus comes to judge mankind as Jehovahs appointed judge that's definitely going to be one group who will be in for a big big surprise. Jesus words at Luke 13:27-28 come to mind

"But he will speak and say to YOU, ‘I do not know where YOU are from. Get away from me, all YOU workers of unrighteousness!’ 28 There is where [YOUR] weeping and the gnashing of [YOUR] teeth will be, when YOU see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves thrown outside."

Caino
January 4th, 2016, 11:13 AM
The basis for the recreation of the Nation State of Israel actually started as far back as the middle 1800s. Assisted by the British & Americans and an extremely wealthy and powerful Zionist lobby the creation of the Israel was ENTIRELY political. The building blocs for its creation stretching back as far as WWI. Thus its very apparent its creation has absolutely nothing to do with Biblical prophecy.

It boggles the mind to think that large sections of Jewish society, as well as the Christian right in the USA actually believe mankinds salvation is tied up in Jewish nationalism. The irony is the majority of the those living in Israel by blood alone aren't even Jewish anyway. Either way the Christian Rights and Zionist interpretation of end time prophecy and eschatology is a particular skewed if not sordid one. When Armageddon does come and Jesus comes to judge mankind as Jehovahs appointed judge that's definitely going to be one group who will be in for a big big surprise. Jesus words at Luke 13:27-28 come to mind

"But he will speak and say to YOU, ‘I do not know where YOU are from. Get away from me, all YOU workers of unrighteousness!’ 28 There is where [YOUR] weeping and the gnashing of [YOUR] teeth will be, when YOU see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves thrown outside."


Thanks SonofCaleb.

iamaberean
January 5th, 2016, 04:09 AM
Bs"d

From this page: http://MountZion.notlong.com

Let us take a look at the prophetic qualities of Jesus.

In Matthew 4:17 he claims that the kingdom of heaven is at hand..

Now, almost 2000 years later, the kingdom is still not here.

Here G.d commands the Jewish people to execute false prophets, who are prophets whose prophecies do not come true. Jesus is a perfect example of a prophet whose prophecy did not come true.



Elia,

I find your posts to be very interesting, but wrong
Heaven is my throne, earth is my footstool..
Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

The kingdom of God is within you. That is not an earthly kingdom, it is spiritual, and we are the temple of God.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The reason we preach that we must be born again is because since Adam we have been dead, spiritually. Jesus is life and he must be allowed into his temple.

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

iamaberean
January 5th, 2016, 04:51 AM
Elia,

I find your posts to be very interesting, but wrong
Heaven is my throne, earth is my footstool..
Isa 66:1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

The kingdom of God is within you. That is not an earthly kingdom, it is spiritual, and we are the temple of God.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The reason we preach that we must be born again is because since Adam we have been dead, spiritually. Jesus is life and he must be allowed into his temple.

Joh 11:23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Joh 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

After thought:

Did you know the last day, judgment day, has come and gone?

It happened the day Jesus was crucified.
Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

turbosixx
January 5th, 2016, 07:25 PM
Again this is from the view of a Gentile Christian.


Bs"d

If he was the messiah, then why is he not answering the cries of the Christians who are slaughtered by the millions by the muslims?

Christians see the battle has having been won through Jesus. Jesus suffered for us and we are told we might suffer for his name. I can't think of a better way of dying than in the name of Jesus.


And what makes you think that God doesn't answer the cries of His people?
When I read the OT, I see God answering the people's cries through a prophet and would eventually give them relief. In the last 2,000 years has there been any prophet or any relief?


Why do you think the state of Israel is back again, and why is God gathering in the Jewish people in Israel?
If Israel is back by the hand of God, what has the people done differently that they haven't done for the past 2,000 years?



The endgame is beginning.


Is God only the God of the Jews?

False Prophet
January 5th, 2016, 08:11 PM
isaiah53
Who would have believed what we heard?
Who saw the Lord’s power in this?
2 He grew up like a small plant before the Lord,
like a root growing in a dry land.
He had no special beauty or form to make us notice him;
there was nothing in his appearance to make us desire him.
3 He was hated and rejected by people.
He had much pain and suffering.
People would not even look at him.
He was hated, and we didn’t even notice him.
4 But he took our suffering on him
and felt our pain for us.
We saw his suffering
and thought God was punishing him.
5 But he was wounded for the wrong we did;
he was crushed for the evil we did.
The punishment, which made us well, was given to him,
and we are healed because of his wounds.
6 We all have wandered away like sheep;
each of us has gone his own way.
But the Lord has put on him the punishment
for all the evil we have done.
7 He was beaten down and punished,
but he didn’t say a word.
He was like a lamb being led to be killed.
He was quiet, as a sheep is quiet while its wool is being cut;
he never opened his mouth.
8 Men took him away roughly and unfairly.
He died without children to continue his family.
He was put to death;
he was punished for the sins of my people.
9 He was buried with wicked men,
and he died with the rich.
He had done nothing wrong,
and he had never lied.
10 But it was the Lord who decided
to crush him and make him suffer.
The Lord made his life a penalty offering,
but he will still see his descendants and live a long life.
He will complete the things the Lord wants him to do.
11 “After his soul suffers many things,
he will see life and be satisfied.
My good servant will make many people right with God;
he will carry away their sins.
12 For this reason I will make him a great man among people,
and he will share in all things with those who are strong.
He willingly gave his life
and was treated like a criminal.
But he carried away the sins of many people
and asked forgiveness for those who sinned.”

Elia
January 8th, 2016, 01:19 AM
isaiah53

Bs"d

For Isaiah 53 look HERE (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114526)



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

Ben Masada
January 8th, 2016, 02:13 AM
I have plenty of "choice" as I am not confined to the fetish of the Jews religion or their failed prophecies and priestly writings. And according to >you< there is no life beyond death, so your faith is for nothing!

As for Jesus he resurrected a likeness of himself from the dead (just as he told his enemies in Jerusalem that he would do) and appeared to a number of believers before returning to his rightful place on high a soveregne Lord and God of this world.

Judaism served its purpose but developed a closed minded, nationalist ego leaving you with false expectations of your place in the world. Then, tragically, you lost your calling.

"False expectations" left to us by Judaism! Isn't that what you have said above? Now, consider this: The Scriptures Jesus always referred to as the Word of God says many times that once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. Just to mention a few of them, read II Sam. 12:23; 14:14; Isaiah 26:14; and Job 7:9 which you label as false expectations of Judaism.

When Jesus asked Peter if he loved him; Peter said yes, and Jesus said follow me. Then Peter, pointing to John, asked Jesus about him and Jesus said, "If I want him to tarry until I return, what's that to you?" The impression left is that John would remain until Jesus returned. (John 21:19-22)

From the day of that conversation between Jesus and Peter and until present day, it has been over 2000 years and you don't see any false expectation in the false teaching that Jesus is on his way back to earth. John, likewise is no longer in Israel waiting for Jesus on his way to return. He too, like Jesus, has been since then down in Sheol aka the grave.
And of course, you find no false expectations in such anti-Jewish doctrine. How convenient is to operate under Christian preconceived notions!

Ben Masada
January 8th, 2016, 02:30 AM
There were other suitable people and cultures on earth that could have been blessed with the incarnation of the Son of God but Abrahams descendants having the propensity for leadership were chosen in no small part because of their geographical location in the world as the intersection of the cultural centers and trade routes. It was the best location for the spread of the gospel message of Christ.

But like the lottery often goes to the heads of the winners, being selected went to the heads of the Jews. A religion evolved around it blinding them to the simple concept of Abrams faith in the Father.

You guys teach such an idolatrous message about Jesus that if the dead could hear what is said about them up here on earth, Jesus would turn in the grave. To attribute to God a son born without a biological human father is akin to the Greek myth of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman which is the case with Mat. 1:18.

Ben Masada
January 8th, 2016, 02:35 AM
The Messiah as conceived of by the Jews never will come. Collectively Israel is a false prophet nation, discredited and artificial, resurrected and supported by the pity of Western nations. They live in the delusion of their exaggerated history, a creation of the Hebrew priest of Babylon, perpetuated by the prophesier's of the religious establishment.

Your Messiah is MIA.

You become so blind when speaking about this subject that you forget the fact that Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism. Wake up because you are slandering Jesus himself in the process. For heaven's sake, do I have to defend Jesus against yourselves.

Ben Masada
January 8th, 2016, 02:41 AM
Yup, that's more of your recycled cut and paste material that's all over the web word for word. :yawn:

Jews don't cut and paste. Haven't you ever read the Mark Twain's Essay about the Jews? If you would like to read it, tell me so and I'll post it here for your eyes only. It is not so long.

Elia
April 25th, 2016, 01:42 AM
Jews don't cut and paste.

Bs"d

Where exactly is that written??


Haven't you ever read the Mark Twain's Essay about the Jews? If you would like to read it, tell me so and I'll post it here for your eyes only. It is not so long.

Let me give you a hand:

To conclude. -- If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. (in reality only 0,2%) It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of; but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also away out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers. He has made a marvellous fight in this world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it. The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed, and made a vast noise, and they are gone; other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

Here is the whole text of Mark Twains "Concerning the Jews":
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1898twain-jews.html

Elia
December 15th, 2017, 03:11 AM
Bs"d

Why believe in a messiah who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies?

http://MountZion.notlong.com

marhig
December 15th, 2017, 04:03 AM
Bs"d

Why believe in a messiah who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies?

http://MountZion.notlong.comFor starters, Jesus isn't God. He never said he was God but he did say that he was the son of God. The Jewish leaders claimed that he said he was God. He never did. Men have made him God. Jesus even says himself that the father is the only true God, and that the father is his God also.

And Jesus fulfilled everything, your just looking at the natural but not the spiritual. If you know God then you should know that Jesus comes from God. He's full of wisdom and understanding and he's filled with the Holy Spirit. Those who belong to him hear his voice, I know that Jesus is the Christ, and God has revealed that to me, and I've got no doubt whatsoever.

beameup
December 15th, 2017, 04:06 AM
Bs"d

Why believe in a messiah who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies?

He fulfilled the "first phase" of Messiah's duties. Then, as Daniel says, He was "cut-off" karath-karath
Abraham certainly understood that blood sacrifices for sin was mandatory.
Abraham also understood, through acting-out the sacrifice of Isaac,
that God would perform this sacrifice for sin in like manner.
Clearly Abraham recognized that he was an unholy sinner and needed redemption.

SabathMoon
December 15th, 2017, 06:05 AM
Bs"d

Why believe in a messiah who didn't fulfill the messianic prophecies?

http://MountZion.notlong.com

Given the errancy of works attributed to the old testament prophets; you can't even say what the last messiah really was. Certainly, god made a fully human being, otherwise the human's suffering would be meaningless; And certainly, he didn't resurrect god himself from the dead, because it would be ridiculous for god to himself from to prove that he can raise the dead. It absolutely was necessary for God to sacrifice a man and raise him from the dead.

The other concepts of last messiah are shams, including the trinitarian concept.

CherubRam
December 17th, 2017, 07:05 PM
Bs'd

Shalom dear readers,

Hereby I want to tell you about the one true God, and give you shocking facts and data that has been suppressed by the Christian church for 2000 years. This was done by, amongst other things, burning Bible translators on the stake, mass burnings of Bible translations and corrupting Bible translations.
But now the truth is out. Look here:

http://mountzion.notlong.com

There are errors in both the Old and New Testaments. Yahshua is the Messiah, but Pagan Christians have made God and Yahshua out to be liars. Do not listen to any falsehoods, but focus on the truths.

Elia
December 20th, 2017, 04:24 PM
He fulfilled the "first phase" of Messiah's duties. Then, as Daniel says, He was "cut-off" karath-karath

Bs"d

Daniel 9 does NOT speak about JC.

Here is what Daniel 9 is all about: http://bit.do/Daniel9

beameup
December 23rd, 2017, 04:28 AM
Bs"d

Why believe in a messiah who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies?

He took care of your sin problem, which was a monumental step toward reconciliation with a HOLY GOD.
"Without the shedding of blood, there can be no remission of sin".

freelight
December 23rd, 2017, 06:00 PM
He took care of your sin problem, which was a monumental step toward reconciliation with a HOLY GOD.
"Without the shedding of blood, there can be no remission of sin".

Thats only for those who actually believe the reprehensible doctrine that God demands or NEEDS blood by slaying an animal or human being to appease his anger/wrath, to satisfy or atone for so called 'sins'. This concept can be challenged on many levels.

We would direct you to challenging this concept here (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?123355-Atonement-without-blood-according-to-Freelight).

In traditional orthodox Judaism, their Messiah doesnt cleanse them with his magical blood, but leads, and covers (atones) for his people spiritually, by his loyalty to God's law and by his SPIRIT. Hence, all of Israel are God's SON, one nation, one people, one community.

WatchmanOnTheWall
December 24th, 2017, 10:02 AM
Elia get out of the desert sun it's frying you brain. Jesus is Lord. http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127217-Don-t-be-Jewish-be-Christian&highlight=

Elia
December 30th, 2017, 02:10 PM
Elia get out of the desert sun it's frying you brain. Jesus is Lord. http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?127217-Don-t-be-Jewish-be-Christian&highlight=

Bs"d

He might be your lord, but not mine. I have a different Lord:

"J-e-h-o-v-a-h the Lord [is] my strength"
Habakkuk 3:19 Young's Literal Translation

"But you, O Y-H-W-H my Lord"
Psalm 109:21

"O J-e-h-o-v-a-h my Lord, strength of my salvation"
Psalm 140:7, Young's Literal Translation

"But to Thee, O J-e-h-o-v-a-h, my Lord, [are] mine eyes, In Thee I have trusted, Make not bare my soul."
Psalm 141:7, Young's Literal Translation

"And Abram saith, `Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h what dost Thou give to me"
Gen 15:2 Young's Literal Translation

"and he saith, `Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h, whereby do I know that I possess it?'"
Gen 15:8 Young's Literal Translation

"Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h, Thou -- Thou hast begun to shew Thy servant Thy greatness, and Thy strong hand;"
Deut 3:28 Young's Literal Translation

"And Samson calleth unto J-e-h-o-v-a-h, and saith, `Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h, remember me, I pray Thee, and strengthen me,"
Judges 16:28 Young's Literal Translation

"I come in the might of the Lord J-e-h-o-v-a-h, I mention Thy righteousness -- Thine only."
Psalm 71:16 Young's Literal Translation

CherubRam
December 30th, 2017, 06:24 PM
Lord is a common phrase. There are many lords.

Yahshua came in the name of Yahwah, and he preached that Yahwah is the only true God.

freelight
December 31st, 2017, 12:01 PM
~·~·~

All that really matters is the Messiah being revealed in man (in human experience and community), and that reality of 'God' tabernacling within man and anointing man for his life purpose and divine service. The Messiah comes when the soul has contact and communion with the Spirit.

All else is alphabet soup and salad dressing.