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Bright Raven
July 13th, 2015, 01:35 PM
Is Jesus divine or not. Support your position with scripture.

keypurr
July 13th, 2015, 02:45 PM
Kind of another Jesus is God thread friend.

Bright Raven
July 13th, 2015, 02:46 PM
Kind of another Jesus is God thread friend.

Kind of. Can you disprove it?

jamie
July 13th, 2015, 03:09 PM
Is Jesus divine or not. Support your position with scripture.



So the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend. (Exodus 33:11 NKJV)

And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
(John 5:37 NKJV)

Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 03:55 PM
Is Jesus divine or not. Support your position with scripture.


Jesus is both divine and human.

He had to be both to save us.

"For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily" Colossians 2:9.

keypurr
July 13th, 2015, 08:21 PM
Kind of. Can you disprove it?


Define divinity

Bright Raven
July 13th, 2015, 08:24 PM
Define divinity

You sound like Squeaky. No. You ought to know without someone having to tell you.

keypurr
July 13th, 2015, 08:28 PM
How many Gods are there?

I believe in only one, the Father.

So does Christ.

Christ has a God, the God he prays to, the God he went to, the God that sent him. The God that made him Lord. The God that raised him from the dead. God can not die.

Since there is only one God it proves that Jesus Christ is not God. He is the son of God, made Lord of all by his God.

That should answer your question my friend. I understand why you think differently.

keypurr
July 13th, 2015, 08:29 PM
Was Christ divine, he was godlike, he was a created form of God, he was holy.

But there is only one true God, the Father..

keypurr
July 13th, 2015, 08:31 PM
You sound like Squeaky. No. You ought to know without someone having to tell you.


Thank you, I respect Squeaky very much. That was a compliment.

keypurr
August 2nd, 2015, 01:48 PM
Yes, I see Christ as a divine being, but not the most high God.
I see Jesus as the flesh son that Christ was sent to dwell in.

patrick jane
August 2nd, 2015, 01:52 PM
Yes, I see Christ as a divine being, but not the most high God.
I see Jesus as the flesh son that Christ was sent to dwell in.

Amen. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is NOT God. Jesus has no power except FROM The Father who sent Him -

Cruciform
August 2nd, 2015, 01:58 PM
Is Jesus divine or not.
Jesus Christ is fully divine and fully human. The biblical teaching on this is listed here (http://scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html).

jamie
August 2nd, 2015, 03:51 PM
Jesus has no power except FROM The Father who sent Him


But the Father has given Jesus all authority.


And Jesus came and spoke to them saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (Matthew 28:18 NKJV)

Totton Linnet
August 2nd, 2015, 04:34 PM
Yes, I see Christ as a divine being, but not the most high God.
I see Jesus as the flesh son that Christ was sent to dwell in.

You used to deny He had a pre-existence, now here you admit He existed before He took upon Him the form of flesh and blood.

Lazy afternoon
August 2nd, 2015, 04:51 PM
Amen. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is NOT God. Jesus has no power except FROM The Father who sent Him -

True in regard to His ministry of 3 years, however He now is---

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

The same will occur for all true believers of the resurrection as He was.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.


1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

LA

Grosnick Marowbe
August 2nd, 2015, 05:14 PM
Kind of another Jesus is God thread friend.

Perhaps, you ought to move along then? Nothing for you to see here, move on.

Grosnick Marowbe
August 2nd, 2015, 05:16 PM
John 14:9 states: "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"

Grosnick Marowbe
August 2nd, 2015, 05:19 PM
How many Gods are there?

I believe in only one, the Father.

So does Christ.

Christ has a God, the God he prays to, the God he went to, the God that sent him. The God that made him Lord. The God that raised him from the dead. God can not die.

Since there is only one God it proves that Jesus Christ is not God. He is the son of God, made Lord of all by his God.

That should answer your question my friend. I understand why you think differently.

We sure don't understand why you think differently? Oh, yes we do,
you're trusting in your own imagination/theories.

keypurr
August 2nd, 2015, 08:00 PM
Amen. Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is NOT God. Jesus has no power except FROM The Father who sent Him -


Amen, I agree. Christ is a created form of God that was given the fullness of the Father.

6days
August 2nd, 2015, 08:01 PM
John 8:58*Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!"
Ex. 3:14*God said to Moses,*"I AM*WHO*I AM.*

Genesis 1:1 in the beginning, *God created the heaven and the earth.
Col.1:16*For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Isaiah 9:6*For a child is born to us, a son is given to us. The government will rest on his shoulders. And he will be called: Wonderful Counselor,*Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Hebrews 1:8*But to the Son he says, "Your throne,*O God, endures forever and ever.*
John 10:25*Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28*I give them eternal life*and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30*I and the Father are one.

keypurr
August 2nd, 2015, 08:02 PM
Jesus Christ is fully divine and fully human. The biblical teaching on this is listed here (http://scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html).


Define what divine means to you.

patrick jane
August 2nd, 2015, 08:14 PM
True in regard to His ministry of 3 years, however He now is---

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

The same will occur for all true believers of the resurrection as He was.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.


Jesus Christ is SENT FROM the Father - Jesus Himself plainly states He is from the the Father and does nothing but from God who sent Him - should i type it ? or can you read

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

LA

Jesus is sent from His Father - He is not God but does God's Will on earth and is One with the God, but the Son and the Holy Ghost PROCEED FROM GOD and there is no two or three ways about it. Father - Son - Holy Ghost -- In that order

keypurr
August 2nd, 2015, 08:15 PM
You used to deny He had a pre-existence, now here you admit He existed before He took upon Him the form of flesh and blood.


Don't misunderstand me Totton. Jesus, the man, did not pre-exist. But the spirit Christ in him did. The son that God sent was not Jesus, it was Christ. Jesus became the Christ at his anointing.

The express image in Hebrews 1 is a spiritual being, not a man. That spirit became a man by dwelling in Jesus. Phil 2 tells you that he lowered himself to take the form of man, so he was not a man until Jesus was anointed with him. This is very important to understand friend. Jesus is the flesh son of God, he is the body God prepared for his spirit son Christ. God created everything through Christ. Jesus was born as a man to be the Saviour of mankind, but he became Christ when he was about thirty.

God is God and Christ is Lord. Only the Father is greater than Christ.

Bright Raven
August 2nd, 2015, 08:16 PM
Define what divine means to you.

Divinity.
noun, plural divinities.
1.
the quality of being divine; divine nature.
2.
deity; godhood.
3.
a divine being; God.
4.
the Divinity, (sometimes lowercase) the Deity.
5.
a being having divine attributes, ranking below God but above humans:
minor divinities.
6.
the study or science of divine things; theology.
7.
godlike character; supreme excellence. From Dictionary.com

Bright Raven
August 2nd, 2015, 08:22 PM
Don't misunderstand me Totton. Jesus, the man, did not pre-exist. But the spirit Christ in him did. The son that God sent was not Jesus, it was Christ. Jesus became the Christ at his anointing.

The express image in Hebrews 1 is a spiritual being, not a man. That spirit became a man by dwelling in Jesus. Phil 2 tells you that he lowered himself to take the form of man, so he was not a man until Jesus was anointed with him. This is very important to understand friend. Jesus is the flesh son of God, he is the body God prepared for his spirit son Christ. God created everything through Christ. Jesus was born as a man to be the Saviour of mankind, but he became Christ when he was about thirty.

God is God and Christ is Lord. Only the Father is greater than Christ.

Luke 2:11

achduke
August 2nd, 2015, 08:22 PM
John 14:9 states: "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?"



Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father,

and the Father in Me?

The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority

but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.

keypurr
August 2nd, 2015, 08:23 PM
Divinity.

noun, plural divinities.

1.

the quality of being divine; divine nature.

2.

deity; godhood.

3.

a divine being; God.

4.

the Divinity, (sometimes lowercase) the Deity.

5.

a being having divine attributes, ranking below God but above humans:

minor divinities.

6.

the study or science of divine things; theology.

7.

godlike character; supreme excellence. From Dictionary.com


Note that it does not always mean being God, it can be godlike.
Christ is the express image of God, he was given the powers of God, but he is not God, he is godlike, or "a" God.

Jesus Christ is a god, a created FORM of God. He is our Lord. God was alone before he created Christ.

keypurr
August 2nd, 2015, 08:25 PM
Luke 2:11


Again my friend, did I ever tell you about President Kennedy?

Bright Raven
August 2nd, 2015, 08:26 PM
Note that it does not always mean being God, it can be godlike.
Christ is the express image of God, he was given the powers of God, but he is not God, he is godlike, or "a" God.

Jesus Christ is a god, a created FORM of God. He is our Lord. God was alone before he created Christ.

Your thoughts are heretical/polytheistic. Jesus is not a god. He is God, John 1:1, 14. Get over it.

kayaker
August 2nd, 2015, 09:02 PM
Is Jesus divine or not. Support your position with scripture.

Jesus said He is the light of the world in John 8:12 KJV.

Jesus' paternity was challenged by those seeking His crucifixion (John 8:28 KJV, John 8:37 KJV) in John 8:13, 19, 25, even inherently in John 8:41 KJV.

Jesus said He and His Father are TWO witnesses to Jesus' divine origin in John 8:18 KJV. Witnesses testify, so where are those to testimonies in said dialogue between John 8:12 KJV, and John 8:47 KJV?

Jesus' testimony to His divine origin is found in John 8:38 KJV. What specifically and succinctly did Jesus see WITH His Father?

God's testimony to Jesus' divine origin is found in John 8:40 KJV. What specifically and succinctly did Jesus hear from God that even Abraham didn't hear, even though Abraham "rejoiced to see (Jesus') day: and he saw it, and was glad" (John 8:56 KJV)?

So, I can get that close, Bright Raven. But, I have no difficulty understanding the concept of two witnesses. Unveiling the explicit and succinct details these two testimonies, Jesus' in John 8:38 KJV, and God's in John 8:40 KJV, sounds like a job for the Holy Spirit (John 14:16 KJV, John 14:17 KJV, John 14:26 KJV).

I've yet to find a theologian or layperson who can render up the explicit details. Nonetheless, I'm confident such is found in the Bible.

kayaker

keypurr
August 2nd, 2015, 09:44 PM
Your thoughts are heretical/polytheistic. Jesus is not a god. He is God, John 1:1, 14. Get over it.

Your verses only proves MY point BR.

God sent his son, not himself.

The WORD became flesh, Jesus was BORN FLESH.

It is not me that must get over it BR.

patrick jane
August 2nd, 2015, 10:02 PM
Your verses only proves MY point BR.

God sent his son, not himself.

The WORD became flesh, Jesus was BORN FLESH.

It is not me that must get over it BR.

i retract my previous posts to you about Christ and that He IS God. He plainly states many many times that He is SENT from the Father God to fulfill God's Word and scriptures. Jesus is NOT God He is the Son of God

Ben Masada
August 3rd, 2015, 02:43 AM
Is Jesus divine or not. Support your position with scripture.

Yes, but according to the gospel of Paul in II Cor. 13:19. That's how Jesus became part of the Trinity; therefore, one with God. But which one of the two was and remained a Jew to the last day of his life, Jesus or Paul? Jesus of course! So, every thing about Jesus in the gospel of Paul was not true.

iamaberean
August 3rd, 2015, 04:22 AM
Jesus is man in flesh and was sinless.

1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

He was God in spirit and in the old testament he is spoken of as the redeemer.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Jesus, as a man, prayed to God, walked on the earth, was tempted by the devil, but as God he healed the sick and raised the dead and this is what he told his disciples to tell John when he asked.

Mat 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?

Mat 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

Ben Masada
August 3rd, 2015, 04:58 AM
1 - Jesus is man in flesh, God in spirit. In the old testament he is spoken of as the redeemer.

2 - Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

3 - 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

4 - Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

5 - Jesus, as a man, prayed to God, walked on the earth, was tempted by the devil, but as God he healed the sick and raised the dead and this is what he told his disciples to tell John when he asked.

6 - Mat 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? Mat 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

1 - God Himself is the Redeemer of Israel. (Isa. 41:14)

2 - As you see, the Lord Himself, the King of Israel is Israel's own Redeemer.

3 - Here, Paul was speaking about Jesus and he did not know that Jesus did not preach to the Gentiles. He even forbade his disciples to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles. (Mat. 10:5,6)

4 - Here, Paul preached about Jesus as part of the Trinity although in body in contradiction to Deut. 4:15,16.

5 - As God, Jesus raised the dead in contradiction to God Himself for having inspired His prophets with the Word that once dead no one will ever return from the grave. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23)

6 - Neither is he who should come nor should you wait for another. The Messiah is according to Prophet Habakkuk 3:13.

achduke
August 3rd, 2015, 05:30 AM
i retract my previous posts to you about Christ and that He IS God. He plainly states many many times that He is SENT from the Father God to fulfill God's Word and scriptures. Jesus is NOT God He is the Son of God
Hi patrick jane,

When did you come to this understanding?

daqq
August 3rd, 2015, 05:30 AM
Is Jesus divine or not. Support your position with scripture.

Your thread title says the divinity of Jesus CHRIST not just "Jesus".

In the beginning was the Memra-Logos, and the Memra-Logos was with the Elohim-Angels, and the Memra-Logos was Elohim. In the beginning Elohim cuts down the Shamayim and the Erets: and the Erets is without form, and a vacuous void, and Darkness is upon the face of the abyss, and Ruach Elohim broods like a Yonah Dove upon the face of the waters. :)

:sheep:

iamaberean
August 3rd, 2015, 05:54 AM
1 - God Himself is the Redeemer of Israel. (Isa. 41:14)

2 - As you see, the Lord Himself, the King of Israel is Israel's own Redeemer.
Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
He shall stand upon the earth, means the redeemer is a man.

3 - Here, Paul was speaking about Jesus and he did not know that Jesus did not preach to the Gentiles. He even forbade his disciples to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles. (Mat. 10:5,6)
Jesus was and is the Jews messiah, and as their messiah, he dealt with the Jews. But in the end they rejected him.
Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

4 - Here, Paul preached about Jesus as part of the Trinity although in body in contradiction to Deut. 4:15,16.
Huh?

5 - As God, Jesus raised the dead in contradiction to God Himself for having inspired His prophets with the Word that once dead no one will ever return from the grave. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23)
God was speaking of the unjust not returning from the grave. In II Sam, David said that he would go to him, spiritually, when he died.

6 - Neither is he who should come nor should you wait for another. The Messiah is according to Prophet Habakkuk 3:13.
Huh!

Ben Masada
August 3rd, 2015, 06:32 AM
[QUOTE=iamaberean;4404647]

1 - Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: He shall stand upon the earth, means the redeemer is a man.

2 - Jesus was and is the Jews messiah, and as their messiah, he dealt with the Jews. But in the end they rejected him.

3 - Mar 16:14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

4 - Here, Paul preached about Jesus as part of the Trinity although in body in contradiction to Deut. 4:15,16. Huh?

5 - God was speaking of the unjust not returning from the grave. In II Sam, David said that he would go to him, spiritually, when he died.

6 - Neither is he who should come nor should you wait for another. The Messiah is according to Prophet Habakkuk 3:13. Huh!
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

1 - As I see, you do not understand metaphorical language.

2 - Are you implying that Jesus lost the deal with the Jews?

3 - Luke says that Jesus' disciples saw him after his passion or sufferings. To see someone after his passion or sufferings is no evidence that he even died, let alone that he resurrected. (Acts 1:3)

4 - Does "huh!" mean that you did not know about Deut. 4:15,16. You need to study the Bible a little bore.

5 - Again "huh!" Are you implying that the newborn baby of king David with Bathsheba will be of the unjust who will not return from the grave? Not too kosher.

6 - Finally, another "huh". Does it mean you have never read Prophet Habakkuk? I agree with him that the Messiah is according to the collective concept of the People of Israel and not an individual
because an individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? I don't think so. Besides, the Messiah is not supposed to physically die but to remain as a people before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-35)

Caino
August 3rd, 2015, 06:50 AM
1 - God Himself is the Redeemer of Israel. (Isa. 41:14)

2 - As you see, the Lord Himself, the King of Israel is Israel's own Redeemer.

3 - Here, Paul was speaking about Jesus and he did not know that Jesus did not preach to the Gentiles. He even forbade his disciples to take the gospel of salvation to the Gentiles. (Mat. 10:5,6)

4 - Here, Paul preached about Jesus as part of the Trinity although in body in contradiction to Deut. 4:15,16.

5 - As God, Jesus raised the dead in contradiction to God Himself for having inspired His prophets with the Word that once dead no one will ever return from the grave. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23)

6 - Neither is he who should come nor should you wait for another. The Messiah is according to Prophet Habakkuk 3:13.


The Bible has lots of contradictions in both the Old and New Testaments. Jesus had warned not to sew the new cloth onto the old or put the new wine into the old wineskins. The religion of Jesus was a clear departure from the evolved religion of Judaism. The new gospel writings should never have been attached to the old false prophets of Israel.

jamie
August 3rd, 2015, 06:54 AM
Jesus is NOT God He is the Son of God


And the Son has all authority over heaven and earth. He imparts eternal life to those the Father gives to him.

The Creator is referred to in scripture as God and Jesus Christ made everything that was made. Jesus Christ in conjunction with the Most High is Creator.

achduke
August 3rd, 2015, 06:54 AM
The Bible has lots of contradictions in both the Old and New Testaments. Jesus had warned not to sew the new cloth onto the old or put the new wine into the old wineskins. The religion of Jesus was a clear departure from the evolved religion of Judaism. The new gospel writings should never have been attached to the old false prophets of Israel.

What contradictions? Can you give a few examples? Judaism has leaven but what is wrong with the OT.

keypurr
August 3rd, 2015, 09:49 AM
i retract my previous posts to you about Christ and that He IS God. He plainly states many many times that He is SENT from the Father God to fulfill God's Word and scriptures. Jesus is NOT God He is the Son of God


Amen, you see truth.

j4jesus09
August 3rd, 2015, 10:09 AM
Yes, 2nd Peter 1:3-4 3

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.

keypurr
August 3rd, 2015, 10:42 AM
The Bible has lots of contradictions in both the Old and New Testaments. Jesus had warned not to sew the new cloth onto the old or put the new wine into the old wineskins. The religion of Jesus was a clear departure from the evolved religion of Judaism. The new gospel writings should never have been attached to the old false prophets of Israel.


I agree that there are contradictions in scripture but when that happens it is most often that we are not seeing fully what is being said. It is very easy to assume something that is not there.

keypurr
August 3rd, 2015, 10:43 AM
Delete post

Caino
August 3rd, 2015, 11:04 AM
What contradictions? Can you give a few examples? Judaism has leaven but what is wrong with the OT.

Well the flood and young earth are obviously not true, but details in narratives were not accurate.








Saul kills himself:

1 Samuel 31:4King James Version (KJV)

4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

Saul kills himself:

1 Chronicles 10:4King James Version (KJV)

4 Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

No, it was the Philistines who killed Saul:

2 Samuel 21:12King James Version (KJV)

12 And David went and took the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from the men of Jabeshgilead, which had stolen them from the street of Bethshan, where the Philistines had hanged them, when the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa...

Or was it God?

1 Chronicles 10:13King James Version (KJV)

13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

achduke
August 3rd, 2015, 11:13 AM
Well the flood and young earth are obviously not true, but details in narratives were not accurate.








Saul kills himself:

1 Samuel 31:4King James Version (KJV)

4 Then said Saul unto his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

Saul kills himself:

1 Chronicles 10:4King James Version (KJV)

4 Then said Saul to his armourbearer, Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and abuse me. But his armourbearer would not; for he was sore afraid. So Saul took a sword, and fell upon it.

No, it was the Philistines who killed Saul:

2 Samuel 21:12King James Version (KJV)

12 And David went and took the bones of Saul and the bones of Jonathan his son from the men of Jabeshgilead, which had stolen them from the street of Bethshan, where the Philistines had hanged them, when the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa...

Or was it God?

1 Chronicles 10:13King James Version (KJV)

13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the Lord, even against the word of the Lord, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it;

I do not see anything wrong with the death of Saul. He died for his transgression committed against the Lord. The Philistines struck the mortal blow but Saul took it upon himself to finish the job as to try and not give the Philistines credit.

Ben Masada
August 3rd, 2015, 11:26 AM
And the Son has all authority over heaven and earth. He imparts eternal life to those the Father gives to him.

The Creator is referred to in scripture as God and Jesus Christ made everything that was made. Jesus Christ in conjunction with the Most High is Creator.

No wonder the NT is called the Greek text. Greek Mythology runs rampant throughout the pages of the NT. Jesus did not impart eternal life even upon himself. Jesus had a beginning. Whoever has had a beginning, has lost its right to eternal life. Eternal life is something without a beginning and without an end. Only God is eternal.

Ben Masada
August 3rd, 2015, 11:37 AM
1 - The Bible has lots of contradictions in both the Old and New Testaments.

2 - Jesus had warned not to sew the new cloth onto the old or put the new wine into the old wineskins.

3 - The religion of Jesus was a clear departure from the evolved religion of Judaism. The new gospel writings should never have been ateltached to the old false prophets of Israel.

1 - Well, share with me the contradictions of the Tanach. Perhaps I'll
be able to help.

2 - That's absolutely not true. Jesus warned nothing about those ritual rules. He rather declared to have come to confirm all the laws down to the letter; even the dot of the letter.

3 - This sounds anti-semitic language.

eddie17
August 3rd, 2015, 11:56 AM
Well ive just read a book called "did the first christians worship jesus"? by james dunn,very good and a real eye opener.Please read before making assumptions about jesus and God.

Caino
August 3rd, 2015, 12:41 PM
I do not see anything wrong with the death of Saul. He died for his transgression committed against the Lord. The Philistines struck the mortal blow but Saul took it upon himself to finish the job as to try and not give the Philistines credit.

We disagree.

Cruciform
August 3rd, 2015, 03:14 PM
Well ive just read a book called "did the first christians worship jesus"? by james dunn,very good and a real eye opener.Please read before making assumptions about jesus and God.
Also highly recommended:



http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51-wQRmzyDL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Bowman & Komoszewski, PUTTING JESUS IN HIS PLACE: The Case for the Deity of Christ (Kregel, 2007) (http://www.amazon.com/Putting-Jesus-His-Place-Christ/dp/0825429838/ref=sr_1_1_twi_1_pap?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1438636159&sr=1-1&keywords=putting+jesus+in+his+place+the+case+for+t he+deity+of+christ)



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
August 3rd, 2015, 03:19 PM
Define what divine means to you.
That is, God by Nature or Essence. Therefore, to say that Jesus Christ is "fully divine" is to state that He is "entirely God by Nature or Essence."



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Bright Raven
August 3rd, 2015, 03:20 PM
That is, God by Nature or Essence. Therefore, to say that Jesus Christ is "fully divine" is to state that He is "entirely God by Nature or Essence."



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

:thumb:

keypurr
August 3rd, 2015, 06:19 PM
That is, God by Nature or Essence. Therefore, to say that Jesus Christ is "fully divine" is to state that He is "entirely God by Nature or Essence."



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I think Websters Dictionary disagrees with you friend.

I know I do. I see it as God like.

jamie
August 3rd, 2015, 06:23 PM
I think Websters Dictionary disagrees with you friend.

I know I do. I see it as God like.


And human fathers have children that are human like, right? Not human, just human like.

Caino
August 3rd, 2015, 06:29 PM
Jesus of Nazareth was a miraculous person, always both human and divine in one personality reality.

Cruciform
August 3rd, 2015, 09:52 PM
I think Websters Dictionary disagrees with you friend.
Webster's isn't a theological dictionary, and so is simply unreliable regarding technical theological terminology. Back to Post #55.


I know I do. I see it as God like.
That's what makes your personal belief on this point decidedly heterodox.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

keypurr
August 3rd, 2015, 10:17 PM
Webster's isn't a theological dictionary, and so is simply unreliable regarding technical theological terminology. Back to Post #55.


That's what makes your personal belief on this point decidedly heterodox.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


Don't need a theological dictionary to describe an English word.

IMJerusha
August 3rd, 2015, 10:45 PM
Is Jesus divine or not. Support your position with scripture.

First and foremost, I would think about what it means to be divine. That which is given by or derived from God is divine. That is the most perfect definition, tmpov, of the word "divine" as it pertains to Yeshua. Some dictionaries state that "divine" is that which is extraordinarily perfect. This also pertains to Yeshua. Isaiah 7:14 is one of the most clear prophecies regarding Yeshua HaMashiach. Being called Immanuel, God with us, is the most compelling evidence of Yeshua's divinity, given by and derived from God, the Father. Not THE Father but of the Father and there can be nothing more divine than that which is part of the Father as Yeshua is.

People say there is only One God and they are right but God is not His Name, it is what He is and He is Yeshua's Father. As such, Yeshua is part of Him just as the Ruach is part of Him. Together, they are One.

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 04:36 AM
deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

daqq
August 4th, 2015, 05:23 AM
deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Which Enosh, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, king David, the Prophets, and many others, all prayed to the Father with-among, and worshiped the Father together with-among, ("pros ton theon", 'el-ha-'Elohim, with-among the Elohim-Angels, John 1:1, as of course pertaining to my previous post). :)

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 05:28 AM
Which Enosh, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, king David, the Prophets, and many others, all prayed to the Father with-among, and worshiped the Father together with-among, ("pros ton theon", 'el-ha-'Elohim, with-among the Elohim-Angels, John 1:1, as of course pertaining to my previous post). :)

I said
Well seeing as how divinity, isn't in the bible. The next highest authority for definitions would be websters. And that is the definition from websters dictionary.

daqq
August 4th, 2015, 06:32 AM
I said
Well seeing as how divinity, isn't in the bible. The next highest authority for definitions would be websters. And that is the definition from websters dictionary.

What is wrong with Thayer's, Strong's, BDB and others?

Original Strong's Ref. #2316
Romanized theos
Pronounced theh'-os
of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with GSN3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:
KJV--X exceeding, God, god[-ly, -ward].

BDB - Strong's Greek Definition for #2316
2316 // yeov // theos // theh'-os //
of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588 ) the
supreme Divinity; TDNT - 3:65,322; n m
AV - God 1320, god 13, godly 3, God-ward + 4214 2, misc 5; 1343
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3) spoken of the only and true God
3a) refers to the things of God
3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in
any way
4a) God's representative or viceregent
4a1) of magistrates and judges
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2316

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2316: Θεός
Θεός, Θεοῦ, ὁ and ἡ, vocative θῇ, once in the N. T., Matthew 27:46 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/27-46.htm); besides in Deuteronomy 3:24 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/deuteronomy/3-24.htm); Judges 16:28 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/judges/16-28.htm); Judges 21:3 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/judges/21-3.htm); (2 Samuel 7:25 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_samuel/7-25.htm); Isaiah 38:20 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/38-20.htm)); Sir. 23:4; Wis. 9:1; 3Macc. 6:3; 4 Macc. 6:27; Act. Thom. 44f, 57; Eus. h. e. 2, 23, 16; (5, 20, 7; vit. Const. 2, 55, 1. 59); cf. Winers Grammar, § 8, 2 c.; (Buttmann, 12 (11)); ((on the eight or more proposed derivations see Vanicek, p. 386, who follows Curtius, (after Döderlein), p. 513ff in connecting it with a root meaning to supplicate, implore; hence, the implored; per contra cf. Max Müller, Chips etc. 4:227f; Liddell and Scott, under the word, at the end)); (from Homer down); the Sept. for אֵל, אֶלֹהִים and יְהוָה; a god, a goddess;
1. a general appellation of deities or divinities:
Continues here: http://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm

It is much more the like the Hebrew "Elohim" which has a variety of meanings such as God, gods, angels, judges, holy, (an "elohim seed", "godly seed", or even "holy seed", Malachi 2:15). The way that "God" is used in modern mainstream Christianity is way too strict but it must be so if one desires to make Yeshua equal with the Father who is God Almighty.

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 06:53 AM
What is wrong with Thayer's, Strong's, BDB and others?

Original Strong's Ref. #2316
Romanized theos
Pronounced theh'-os
of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with GSN3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:
KJV--X exceeding, God, god[-ly, -ward].

BDB - Strong's Greek Definition for #2316
2316 // yeov // theos // theh'-os //
of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588 ) the
supreme Divinity; TDNT - 3:65,322; n m
AV - God 1320, god 13, godly 3, God-ward + 4214 2, misc 5; 1343
1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2) the Godhead, trinity
2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3) spoken of the only and true God
3a) refers to the things of God
3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in
any way
4a) God's representative or viceregent
4a1) of magistrates and judges
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=2316

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 2316: Θεός
Θεός, Θεοῦ, ὁ and ἡ, vocative θῇ, once in the N. T., Matthew 27:46 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/27-46.htm); besides in Deuteronomy 3:24 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/deuteronomy/3-24.htm); Judges 16:28 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/judges/16-28.htm); Judges 21:3 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/judges/21-3.htm); (2 Samuel 7:25 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_samuel/7-25.htm); Isaiah 38:20 (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/38-20.htm)); Sir. 23:4; Wis. 9:1; 3Macc. 6:3; 4 Macc. 6:27; Act. Thom. 44f, 57; Eus. h. e. 2, 23, 16; (5, 20, 7; vit. Const. 2, 55, 1. 59); cf. Winers Grammar, § 8, 2 c.; (Buttmann, 12 (11)); ((on the eight or more proposed derivations see Vanicek, p. 386, who follows Curtius, (after Döderlein), p. 513ff in connecting it with a root meaning to supplicate, implore; hence, the implored; per contra cf. Max Müller, Chips etc. 4:227f; Liddell and Scott, under the word, at the end)); (from Homer down); the Sept. for אֵל, אֶלֹהִים and יְהוָה; a god, a goddess;
1. a general appellation of deities or divinities:
Continues here: http://biblehub.com/greek/2316.htm

It is much more the like the Hebrew "Elohim" which has a variety of meanings such as God, gods, angels, judges, holy, (an "elohim seed", "godly seed", or even "holy seed", Malachi 2:15). The way that "God" is used in modern mainstream Christianity is way too strict but it must be so if one desires to make Yeshua equal with the Father who is God Almighty.

I said
I think this part is close. A variety of meanings.

It is much more the like the Hebrew "Elohim" which has a variety of meanings such as God, gods, angels, judges,

daqq
August 4th, 2015, 07:32 AM
I said
I think this part is close. A variety of meanings.

It is much more the like the Hebrew "Elohim" which has a variety of meanings such as God, gods, angels, judges,

Yes, and these things can be shown from what still remains in what we have written. For instance the author of Hebrews quotes from a Psalm in the following passage:

Hebrews 2:6-9 KJV
6. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? [Psalm 8:4]
7. Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; [GSN#0032 aggelos-angelous] thou crownedst him with glory and honour, [Psalm 8:5] and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8. Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. [Psalm 8:6] For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels [GSN#0032 aggelos-angelous] for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

However when we look into the Psalm which has been quoted we see that the word there in the Hebrew text is Elohim, showing not only that the author has likely taken this quote from the Septuagint, but also, that those who rendered the Septuagint from the Hebrew surely must have believed that sometimes the word Elohim meant specifically "angels" or they would never have rendered Elohim as Angelous in the Greek. This means that we need to be keenly aware that sometimes, and especially when we see Elohim with the definite article, (ha-Elohim) it can and probably does imply "the Angels", (of YHWH Elohim). Stephen also hints at this in his testimony from Acts 7:53. Even modern translators cannot agree on how to properly render the passage from the Psalm because of the dilemma it creates for lack of understanding these things:

Psalm 8:5 KJV
5. For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, [HSN#430 'Elohiym] and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Psalm 8:5 YLT (Young's Literal Bible)
5. And causest him to lack a little of Godhead, [HSN#430 'Elohiym] And with honour and majesty compassest him.

Psalm 8:5 ASV
5. For thou hast made him but little lower than God, [HSN#430 'Elohiym] And crownest him with glory and honor.

Look at the squirming going on here above! :crackup:
The author of Hebrews clearly tells us that here Elohim means ANGELS. :)

Cruciform
August 4th, 2015, 02:17 PM
Don't need a theological dictionary to describe an English word.
You do for a proper definition of a technical theological term.

Back to Post #60.

keypurr
August 4th, 2015, 07:15 PM
You do for a proper definition of a technical theological term.

Back to Post #60.


Cruciform after reading Daqq post above, you may be right.

But most of us trust the basic words for face value.

Squeaky
August 4th, 2015, 08:08 PM
That is, God by Nature or Essence. Therefore, to say that Jesus Christ is "fully divine" is to state that He is "entirely God by Nature or Essence."



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

I said
I need alittle help understanding when people get outside the scriptures to explain about scripture. What does Essence mean?
There are rules to believing scripture. Don't think beyond what is written. And don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses. Now when you use words like trinity, deity, essence I need you to define them for me. So I can follow the conversation.

1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)

Cruciform
August 4th, 2015, 10:01 PM
But most of us trust the basic words for face value.
As I posted earlier:

"That's what makes your personal belief on this point decidedly heterodox."