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View Full Version : How the Gospel and Justification by Faith Refutes Calvinism



Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 04:13 AM
It is poor theology to nit pick the Bible. One should either accept all of the Bible or accept none of it. Paul was not a Calvinist in Ephesians and then justified by faith in Romans. Predestination and justification by faith are conflicting doctrines. We are justified by faith because we are justified by Christ, Romans 3:26.

I reject none of the Bible and believe, "That all scripture is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" 2 Timothy 3:16. Because the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ and the "Christ Event" are the heart and the center of the Bible, all scripture should be interpreted in the light of these two marvelous events.

The Bible clearly presents Jesus as the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 and 1 John 4:14, plus many, many, other scriptures. He is the savior of the world because he is the one that has reconciled the world unto God, "God was "IN CHRIST" reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:19. This is probably one of the most powerful scriptures in the New Testament and may be one of the hardest one for many to believe.

If Jesus has reconciled the world unto God then it should be obvious that Jesus is the savior of the whole world. Because Jesus is the savior of the whole world God now sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20. "He is before ALL THINGS and by him ALL THINGS consist" Colossians 1:17. Nothing comes ahead of Jesus Christ. God did not predestinate "some certain persons" to be saved by running them around his Son Jesus Christ. If one is to be saved they must be saved by Christ and not by a declaration from God.

If Jesus is the savior of the whole world then this means that salvation has been provided for the whole world. The word "WHOSOEVER" appears in the Bible 163 times. The word "whosoever" means all, anyone, everyone. If you try to make this word mean some particular group then it no longer means "whosoever". The word "whosoever" means that salvation has been provided for ALL MEN or EVERYONE. "That he (Jesus) by the grace of God should taste death for EVERYONE
" Hebrews 2:9. Now, after reading this scripture it is not good theology to say that Jesus only tasted death for "some certain persons". If you do that, you have just blown the whole Gospel.

Jesus by his own words claims to be the savior of the whole world, "I came not to judge the world, but to SAVE THE WORLD" John 12:47. God sees all things in Jesus Christ. Jesus is God's new humanity and his new creation, "If any man be "In Christ" he is a new creation" 2 Corinthians 5:17. We are "In Christ" and Christ is in heaven, Colossians 3:3. God no longer sees this lost sinful world. All that he can see is his Son Jesus Christ. However, there will be a judgment of individuals to see who is a believer and who isn't.

beloved57
July 13th, 2015, 05:43 AM
You teach that Millions upon Millions for whom Christ died and made Righteous, Made Complete, shall yet die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24 ! What kind of Gospel is that ?

Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 06:58 AM
You teach that Millions upon Millions for whom Christ died and made Righteous, Made Complete, shall yet die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24 ! What kind of Gospel is that ?

'WHOSOEVER that comes to me and hears my sayings, I will show you who he is like" Luke 6:47.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish" John 3:16.

"And WHOSOEVER that lives and believes in me shall never die, believe this" John 11:26.

"I am come a light unto the world, that WHOSOEVER believes on me should not abide in darkness" John 12:46.

"And WHOSOEVER that believes on him shall not be ashamed" Romans 9:33.

"WHOSOEVER that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

beloved57
July 13th, 2015, 07:14 AM
'WHOSOEVER that comes to me and hears my sayings, I will show you who he is like" Luke 6:47.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish" John 3:16.

"And WHOSOEVER that lives and believes in me shall never die, believe this" John 11:26.

"I am come a light unto the world, that WHOSOEVER believes on me should not abide in darkness" John 12:46.

"And WHOSOEVER that believes on him shall not be ashamed" Romans 9:33.

"WHOSOEVER that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

The Christ I serve has already believed for them He lived and died for, He kept the whole Law of God for them in Faith to God, so they receive as their reward Eternal Life !

Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 07:20 AM
The Christ I serve has already believed for them He lived and died for, He kept the whole Law of God for them in Faith to God, so they receive as their reward Eternal Life !

The Bible teaches NO SUCH THING. Christ believes for no one.

If you are going to be saved you and you alone, will have to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

"WHOSOEVER that believes in him shall not perish" John 3:16.

beloved57
July 13th, 2015, 07:26 AM
The Bible teaches NO SUCH THING. Christ believes for no one.

If you are going to be saved you and you alone, will have to call on Christ to save you, Romans 10:13.

"WHOSOEVER that believes in him shall not perish" John 3:16.

Did Jesus believe in God while He Lived here on Earth while keeping the Law ? Hebrews said Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Nanja
July 13th, 2015, 07:31 AM
'WHOSOEVER that comes to me and hears my sayings, I will show you who he is like" Luke 6:47.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish" John 3:16.

"And WHOSOEVER that lives and believes in me shall never die, believe this" John 11:26.

"I am come a light unto the world, that WHOSOEVER believes on me should not abide in darkness" John 12:46.

"And WHOSOEVER that believes on him shall not be ashamed" Romans 9:33.

"WHOSOEVER that shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.



The Whosoever that does come to Him are only the ones He draws.

The Whosoever that calls upon Him are only those the Spirit quickens.

The Whosoever that believes in Him, are only those who have been quickened,
made Spiriutally Alive by the Holy Spirit in the New Birth, as belief /faith
are the evidence, Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22.


John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.

Psalm 80:18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.


Eternal Life / Salvation is not predicated on any action / work of man Eph. 2:8-9,
but is given to Christ's Sheep John 10:28!

~~~~~

beloved57
July 13th, 2015, 07:44 AM
The Whosoever that does come to Him are only the ones He draws.

The Whosoever that calls upon Him are only those the Spirit quickens.

The Whosoever that believes in Him, are only those who have been quickened,
made Spiriutally Alive by the Holy Spirit in the New Birth, as belief /faith
are the evidence, Fruit of the Spirit Gal. 5:22.


John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day.

Psalm 80:18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.


Eternal Life / Salvation is not predicated on any action / work of man Eph. 2:8-9,
but is given to Christ's Sheep John 10:28!

~~~~~

The Whosoever are those Christ has already saved ! He did everything required for them to be saved, that was #1 He Lived in total and perfect Obedience to Gods Commandments for men, and #2 He died for all their sins they had transgressed against law, So they are given Life, quickened, then they Call Upon His Name Ps 80:18

18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

So those in Rom 10:13 are the quickened !

Nanja
July 13th, 2015, 07:51 AM
The Whosoever are those Christ has already saved ! He did everything required for them to be saved, that was #1 He Lived in total and perfect Obedience to Gods Commandments for men, and #2 He died for all their sins they had transgressed against law, So they are given Life, quickened, then they Call Upon His Name Ps 80:18

18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

So those in Rom 10:13 are the quickened !


Absolutely!

Those still in the flesh /carnal cannot please God by anything they do Rom. 8:8!

Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

~~~~~

beloved57
July 13th, 2015, 08:36 AM
Absolutely!

Those still in the flesh /carnal cannot please God by anything they do Rom. 8:8!

Rom. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

~~~~~

Amen!

WonderfulLordJesus
July 13th, 2015, 09:58 AM
John 3

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 6

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

1 John 2

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 04:01 PM
John 3

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 6

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

1 John 2

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.


Excellent post. The opposition doesn't want to respond to it.

Nanja
July 13th, 2015, 05:28 PM
Excellent post. The opposition doesn't want to respond to it.

Not at all.

This poster quotes scriptures, but is void of Spiritual understanding just as you are, Pate.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 08:40 PM
Not at all.

This poster quotes scriptures, but is void of Spiritual understanding just as you are, Pate.

~~~~~

WonderfulLordJesus magnifies Christ and His Gospel. You magnify John Calvin the heretic.

Nanja
July 14th, 2015, 04:42 AM
WonderfulLordJesus magnifies Christ and His Gospel.


No, it's a false gospel: Performing works of the flesh to attain Salvation, same as yours:
a gospel which magnifies flesh of man!


1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The all men that Christ draws to Himself John 12:32 are from all nations of the world, jew and Gentile;
only a remnant of mankind Rom. 11:5 chosen in Christ to the Adoption of Children Eph. 1:4-5,
in the Purpose and Grace of God before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

But all the rest God reprobated: Vessels of His Wrath Rom. 9:22, ordained to be condemned Jude 1:4;
children of the wicked one, the tares, those whom the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38-39.

~~~~~

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 05:10 AM
No, it's a false gospel: Performing works of the flesh to attain Salvation, same as yours:
a gospel which magnifies flesh of man!


1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


The all men that Christ draws to Himself John 12:32 are from all nations of the world, jew and Gentile;
only a remnant of mankind Rom. 11:5 chosen in Christ to the Adoption of Children Eph. 1:4-5,
in the Purpose and Grace of God before the world began 2 Tim. 1:9.

But all the rest God reprobated: Vessels of His Wrath Rom. 9:22, ordained to be condemned Jude 1:4;
children of the wicked one, the tares, those whom the devil sowed into the world Mat. 13:38-39.

~~~~~


You add to Gods word.

You take away from Gods word.

You twist and pervert Gods word.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 06:01 AM
You add to Gods word.

You take away from Gods word.

You twist and pervert Gods word.

The same can be said of you !

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 06:05 AM
WonderfulLordJesus magnifies Christ and His Gospel. You magnify John Calvin the heretic.

TULIP is the Gospel of God's Grace in Christ ! Besides that, how do you magnify Christ, when you teach millions upon millions for whom He Lived and died, and made complete, die in their sins in unbelief to a Christless eternity ? What happen ?

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 06:27 AM
The same can be said of you !

Calvinism is the doctrine of devils.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 06:29 AM
Calvinism is the doctrine of devils.

If that is what you want to call God's Gospel, fine with me, but i would hate to be you at the Judgment !

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 06:43 AM
If that is what you want to call God's Gospel, fine with me, but i would hate to be you at the Judgment !


In the judgment I will be found to be "In Christ" and you will be found in John Calvin.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 06:44 AM
In the judgment I will be found to be "In Christ" and you will be found in John Calvin.

We will see!

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 06:50 AM
We will see!

Its a fact, John Calvin and your doctrine is your Jesus.

Instead of trusting in Christ , you are trusting in a heretic.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 06:58 AM
Its a fact, John Calvin and your doctrine is your Jesus.

Instead of trusting in Christ , you are trusting in a heretic.

When did you trust Christ ? You teach that millions He Lived and died for wind up in Hell for their sins !

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 07:21 AM
When did you trust Christ ? You teach that millions He Lived and died for wind up in Hell for their sins !

I trusted Christ 46 years ago.

I will never see hell because Jesus as my savior and representative has secured heaven for me.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 08:51 AM
I trusted Christ 46 years ago.

I will never see hell because Jesus as my savior and representative has secured heaven for me.

You teach that Jesus Christ failed as a Saviour, you say that millions upon millions for whom He died to save, shall wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief ?

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 11:56 AM
You teach that Jesus Christ failed as a Saviour, you say that millions upon millions for whom He died to save, shall wind up in hell for their sins in unbelief ?


You are a false accuser.

If anyone goes to hell it will be because they don't believe in Jesus and not because they have been predestinated.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 12:01 PM
You are a false accuser.

If anyone goes to hell it will be because they don't believe in Jesus and not because they have been predestinated.

Those Christ died for have already believed in God by Him, and they have through Christ obeyed the Law perfectly, and are now due Eternal Life. Once one has obeyed the Law perfectly as God commands, God must give them Eternal Life like Jesus said here to the Young Man Matt 19:16-17

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Everyone Christ Lived and died for has Kept the Commandments as required !

Now are you calling Christ a Liar ?

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 12:08 PM
Those Christ died for have already believed in God by Him, and they have through Christ obeyed the Law perfectly, and are now due Eternal Life. Once one has obeyed the Law perfectly as God commands, God must give them Eternal Life like Jesus said here to the Young Man Matt 19:16-17

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Everyone Christ Lived and died for has Kept the Commandments as required !

Now are you calling Christ a Liar ?

No, you are.

Jesus said, "For if YOU don't believe that I am he, YOU will die in your sins" John 8:24.

Jesus is not going to believe for you.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 12:11 PM
No, you are.

Jesus said, "For if YOU don't believe that I am he, YOU will die in your sins" John 8:24.

Jesus is not going to believe for you.

Jesus did believe for True Believers, He Kept the Law for them !

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 12:15 PM
Jesus did believe for True Believers, He Kept the Law for them !

As our substitute and representative he fulfilled the law for us.

But there is nothing, absolutly nothing in the Bible about Christ believing for you.

It is another one of your Calvinist fairy tales.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 10:24 PM
As our substitute and representative he fulfilled the law for us.

But there is nothing, absolutly nothing in the Bible about Christ believing for you.

It is another one of your Calvinist fairy tales.

If He kept the Law for one , He believed for one, the Law can't be obeyed without Faith!

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 06:40 AM
If He kept the Law for one , He believed for one, the Law can't be obeyed without Faith!

YOU must believe, Jesus is not going to believe for you.

beloved57
July 15th, 2015, 08:21 AM
YOU must believe, Jesus is not going to believe for you.

Jesus believed for them when He obeyed the Law for them !

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 10:07 AM
Jesus believed for them when He obeyed the Law for them !


The law has nothing to do with believing.

If you could just believe the scriptures you would not be so screwed up. You don't believe what the Bible says, instead you want to believe the words of a heretic.

"He that believes in him is not condemned: but he that does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" John 3:18.

beloved57
July 15th, 2015, 10:10 AM
The law has nothing to do with believing.

If you could just believe the scriptures you would not be so screwed up. You don't believe what the Bible says, instead you want to believe the words of a heretic.

"He that believes in him is not condemned: but he that does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" John 3:18.
Faith is part of doing the law! Matt 23:23 !

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 11:17 AM
Faith is part of doing the law! Matt 23:23 !

And you are nuttier than a fruit cake.

beloved57
July 15th, 2015, 11:50 AM
And you are nuttier than a fruit cake.

That shows you dont believe the Scripture, BTW, this puts you in a bad situation doesnt it ? The only way out of this mess pate is to start denying that Christ Kept the Law for them He Lived and died for !

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 01:53 PM
That shows you dont believe the Scripture, BTW, this puts you in a bad situation doesnt it ? The only way out of this mess pate is to start denying that Christ Kept the Law for them He Lived and died for !

No, you are just confirming the fact that you are one french fry short of a happy meal.

beloved57
July 15th, 2015, 02:04 PM
No, you are just confirming the fact that you are one french fry short of a happy meal.

Jesus kept the Law for them He lived and died for, He rendered unto God for them all required obedience to save them!

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 05:23 PM
Jesus kept the Law for them He lived and died for, He rendered unto God for them all required obedience to save them!

He didn't believe for anyone.

beloved57
July 15th, 2015, 05:27 PM
He didn't believe for anyone.

That's like saying that He didn't obey the Law for anyone!

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 07:26 AM
That's like saying that He didn't obey the Law for anyone!

Nope!

The law is not of faith, Galatians 3:12.

Law and faith are not the same thing.

beloved57
July 16th, 2015, 07:46 AM
Nope!

The law is not of faith, Galatians 3:12.

Law and faith are not the same thing.

You saying that Christ did not have Faith in God when He obeyed the Law for those He Lived and died for ?

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 11:29 AM
You saying that Christ did not have Faith in God when He obeyed the Law for those He Lived and died for ?

The Bible says, "The law is not of faith".

beloved57
July 16th, 2015, 11:39 AM
The Bible says, "The law is not of faith".

That's not saying that Christ did not have Faith, how could He be said to have Trusted in God? Hebrew 2:13 ? Are you denying that Christ Trusted in God?

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 02:39 PM
That's not saying that Christ did not have Faith, how could He be said to have Trusted in God? Hebrew 2:13 ? Are you denying that Christ Trusted in God?


Christ was God.

But he is not going to believe for you.

beloved57
July 16th, 2015, 02:40 PM
Christ was God.

But he is not going to believe for you.

Christ was God and Man ! You don't believe that? He believed for the Church His Body When He fulfilled the Law for them!

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 04:26 PM
Christ was God and Man ! You don't believe that? He believed for the Church His Body When He fulfilled the Law for them!

You are the only one on this Forum that believes Jesus believes for the believer.

You can't come up with scripture that says that.

You need to believe the Bible instead of your Calvinist fairy tales.

beloved57
July 16th, 2015, 04:32 PM
You are the only one on this Forum that believes Jesus believes for the believer.

You can't come up with scripture that says that.

You need to believe the Bible instead of your Calvinist fairy tales.

Christ obeyed the Law for them He lived and died for! He was faithful for them! Christ was faithful to God like Moses was Heb3:5-6 ! That faithfulness to God in theirs !

It doesn't matter who believes it, it is true and you deny it!

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 05:16 PM
Christ obeyed the Law for them He lived and died for! He was faithful for them! Christ was faithful to God like Moses was Heb3:5-6 ! That faithfulness to God in theirs !

It doesn't matter who believes it, it is true and you deny it!

Yea, but he is not going to believe for them.

The judgment is to see who is a believer and who isn't.

You make a sham out of Gods judgment.

beloved57
July 16th, 2015, 05:20 PM
Yea, but he is not going to believe for them.

The judgment is to see who is a believer and who isn't.

You make a sham out of Gods judgment.
Then He could not have kept the Law for them if He didn't believe for them! Faith is part of doing the law Matt 23:23 !

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 05:24 PM
Then He could not have kept the Law for them if He didn't believe for them! Faith is part of doing the law Matt 23:23 !


Only in your twisted mind.

beloved57
July 16th, 2015, 05:43 PM
Only in your twisted mind.

No it's in the scriptures, that Christ obeyed the Law for them He lived and died for, and Faith is part of it Matt 23:23! You think He left that undone ?

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 07:03 AM
No it's in the scriptures, that Christ obeyed the Law for them He lived and died for, and Faith is part of it Matt 23:23! You think He left that undone ?


Then if some one goes to hell its Gods fault because he did not believe for them?

No matter how you slice it, Calvinism is stupid.

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 07:23 AM
Then if some one goes to hell its Gods fault because he did not believe for them?

No matter how you slice it, Calvinism is stupid.

Aint nobody going to hell for whom Christ obeyed God's Law for ! He has done everything required for them, even believed !

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 08:08 AM
Aint nobody going to hell for whom Christ obeyed God's Law for ! He has done everything required for them, even believed !

If that was true everyone would be saved.

You will probably enter into the judgment and say, "But Lord, Lord, didn't you believe for me?

And then you will hear those dreadful words, "Depart from me, I never knew you" Matthew 7:23.

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 09:53 AM
If that was true everyone would be saved.

You will probably enter into the judgment and say, "But Lord, Lord, didn't you believe for me?

And then you will hear those dreadful words, "Depart from me, I never knew you" Matthew 7:23.
Christ didn't live and die for everyone, only for them that believe! They believe because He obeyed the Law for them, and in doing so He believed for them!

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 10:09 AM
Christ didn't live and die for everyone, only for them that believe! They believe because He obeyed the Law for them, and in doing so He believed for them!


Your doctrine does not make sense. nor is it biblical.

Jesus died for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Now, it is your responsibility to believe on him, John 3:18.

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 10:12 AM
Your doctrine does not make sense. nor is it biblical.

Jesus died for the sins of the world, 1 John 2:2.

Now, it is your responsibility to believe on him, John 3:18.
The Gospel of Christ doesn't make sense to them that are perishing!

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 10:19 AM
The Gospel of Christ doesn't make sense to them that are perishing!


They are perishing because they do not believe on the one whom God has sent, John 5:30.

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 11:01 AM
They are perishing because they do not believe on the one whom God has sent, John 5:30.

Then Christ didn't live and die for them! !

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 12:48 PM
Then Christ didn't live and die for them! !

Christ died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Because you refuse to believe that, there is a good chance that you are not a Christian.

Believing that Christ died for the sins of the whole world is the key to understanding the Gospel.

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 12:54 PM
Christ died for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

Because you refuse to believe that, there is a good chance that you are not a Christian.

Believing that Christ died for the sins of the whole world is the key to understanding the Gospel.

Those Christ lived and died for He obeyed the Law for them, that means He had Faith for them, Faith is part of doing the law of God Matt 23:23 !

You saying that Christ left that weightier matter undone?

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 01:07 PM
Those Christ lived and died for He obeyed the Law for them, that means He had Faith for them, Faith is part of doing the law of God Matt 23:23 !

You saying that Christ left that weightier matter undone?


If he saved them by having faith for them, then why doesn't everyone have faith?

And where is your scripture that says Jesus has faith for us?

Without scripture you are just blowing hot air, which is your own idea.

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 01:52 PM
If he saved them by having faith for them, then why doesn't everyone have faith?

And where is your scripture that says Jesus has faith for us?

Without scripture you are just blowing hot air, which is your own idea.
Christ didn't live and die for everyone! He lived and died only for believers!

Bright Raven
July 17th, 2015, 01:58 PM
Christ didn't live and die for everyone! He lived and died only for believers!John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Yes, He died for everyone but not all will accept his free gift of eternal life.

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 02:15 PM
John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Yes, He died for everyone but not all will accept his free gift of eternal life.

All for whom Christ lived and died ,Christ believed for them, they have Eternal life !

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 03:44 PM
All for whom Christ lived and died ,Christ believed for them, they have Eternal life !


You keep saying that, but you have no scripture.

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 03:45 PM
You keep saying that, but you have no scripture.
You ignore scriptures! You deny that Christ kept the Law for them He lived and died for!

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 03:47 PM
Christ didn't live and die for everyone! He lived and died only for believers!

As usual you are in error.

"That he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERYONE" Hebrews 2:9.

When are you going to start reading and believing the Bible?

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 03:54 PM
As usual you are in error.

"That he by the grace of God should taste death for EVERYONE" Hebrews 2:9.

When are you going to start reading and believing the Bible?
Those Christ tasted death for, He lived and obeyed the Law for, and He had Faith for, Faith is part of doing the law Matt 23:23 !

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 04:04 PM
Those Christ tasted death for, He lived and obeyed the Law for, and He had Faith for, Faith is part of doing the law Matt 23:23 !

You are screwing with the scripture again.

It does not say that Christ tasted death for any certain persons.

It says that he tasted death for EVERYONE.

Why is it you can't believe the Bible?

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 04:08 PM
You are screwing with the scripture again.

It does not say that Christ tasted death for any certain persons.

It says that he tasted death for EVERYONE.

Why is it you can't believe the Bible?

Those Christ tasted death for He lived and obeyed the Law for, had Faith for them, so they are believers, He didn't taste death for them who don't believe!

Grosnick Marowbe
July 17th, 2015, 04:14 PM
You are screwing with the scripture again.

It does not say that Christ tasted death for any certain persons.

It says that he tasted death for EVERYONE.

Why is it you can't believe the Bible?

Because he's a "Hyper-Calvinist Fanatic." HCF for short!

Grosnick Marowbe
July 17th, 2015, 04:17 PM
HCFs trust in their false belief system and not the Bible. They've created
false doctrine and they cling to it aggressively!

Grosnick Marowbe
July 17th, 2015, 04:19 PM
B57 rejects "Paul's Gospel" and will stand before God and be judged
by his works, if he doesn't cling to Paul's Gospel? (The Grace Message)

Nanja
July 17th, 2015, 06:03 PM
Yea, but he is not going to believe for them.

The judgment is to see who is a believer and who isn't.

You make a sham out of Gods judgment.


Actually, the Judgment is a declaration of who is a believer and who isn't: The Sheep vs. the Goats.
For God has already Chosen and Predestinated His Children Eph. 1:4-5 before the foundation of the world 2 Tim. 1:9.

Christ Jesus Lived and Died for every one of them, His Sheep; they are the "many", a remnant Rom. 11:5
whom Christ made Righteous Rom. 5:19. That means, as their Covenant and Surety, they are made Complete in Him Col. 2:10:
He has been obedient to all the Law for them, including Believing for them; for to Believe on Him is a commandment,
an imperative for those He made righteous Acts 16:31. Christ Jesus tasted death for every one of them John 10:11,15.
And then He rose as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20: They are Believers indeed!



But that does not include all of mankind.

For the majority are the tares, goats whom the devil sowed in the world Mat. 13:38-39; 25:32-33, 41:
The Vessels of Wrath fitted for destruction:

Rom. 9:22-24 - What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,
which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

~~~~~

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 07:45 PM
Actually, the Judgment is a declaration of who is a believer and who isn't: The Sheep vs. the Goats.
For God has already Chosen and Predestinated His Children Eph. 1:4-5 before the foundation of the world 2 Tim. 1:9.

Christ Jesus Lived and Died for every one of them, His Sheep; they are the "many", a remnant Rom. 11:5
whom Christ made Righteous Rom. 5:19. That means, as their Covenant and Surety, they are made Complete in Him Col. 2:10:
He has been obedient to all the Law for them, including Believing for them; for to Believe on Him is a commandment,
an imperative for those He made righteous Acts 16:31. Christ Jesus tasted death for every one of them John 10:11,15.
And then He rose as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20: They are Believers indeed!



But that does not include all of mankind.

For the majority are the tares, goats whom the devil sowed in the world Mat. 13:38-39; 25:32-33, 41:
The Vessels of Wrath fitted for destruction:

Rom. 9:22-24 - What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,
which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

~~~~~


How can you call yourself a Christian when you deny scriptures that glorify Christ and his Gospel.

Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

He has tasted death for eveyone, Hebrews 2:9.

Ephesians 1:4, 5. Is not about you being predestinated. It is about how God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ.

Salvation has been provided for all as a free gift from God, Romans 5:15, 16, 17, 18, also Ephesians 2:8.

You make God out to be an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

You have the wrong God, your God is not the God of the Bible, he is the God of a heretic.

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 07:51 PM
How can you call yourself a Christian when you deny scriptures that glorify Christ and his Gospel.

Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2.

He has tasted death for eveyone, Hebrews 2:9.

Ephesians 1:4, 5. Is not about you being predestinated. It is about how God chose all of humanity in his Son Jesus Christ.

Salvation has been provided for all as a free gift from God, Romans 5:15, 16, 17, 18, also Ephesians 2:8.

You make God out to be an unjust, unmerciful, unrighteous tyrant that delights in sending people to hell.

You have the wrong God, your God is not the God of the Bible, he is the God of a heretic.

Those Christ is the Savior of are saved!

beloved57
July 17th, 2015, 07:52 PM
Actually, the Judgment is a declaration of who is a believer and who isn't: The Sheep vs. the Goats.
For God has already Chosen and Predestinated His Children Eph. 1:4-5 before the foundation of the world 2 Tim. 1:9.

Christ Jesus Lived and Died for every one of them, His Sheep; they are the "many", a remnant Rom. 11:5
whom Christ made Righteous Rom. 5:19. That means, as their Covenant and Surety, they are made Complete in Him Col. 2:10:
He has been obedient to all the Law for them, including Believing for them; for to Believe on Him is a commandment,
an imperative for those He made righteous Acts 16:31. Christ Jesus tasted death for every one of them John 10:11,15.
And then He rose as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20: They are Believers indeed!



But that does not include all of mankind.

For the majority are the tares, goats whom the devil sowed in the world Mat. 13:38-39; 25:32-33, 41:
The Vessels of Wrath fitted for destruction:

Rom. 9:22-24 - What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,
which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

~~~~~

Good Witness for the Lord!

Robert Pate
July 18th, 2015, 08:00 AM
Those Christ is the Savior of are saved!

You don't believe the Bible.

Because you don't believe the Bible it means nothing to you.

This is why it does not bother you to screw with it and change the words and meaning of it.

Jesus is the savior of the whole world, whether you believe that or don't believe it the Bible supports it, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14, plus many, many other scriptures.

beloved57
July 18th, 2015, 08:16 AM
You don't believe the Bible.

Because you don't believe the Bible it means nothing to you.

This is why it does not bother you to screw with it and change the words and meaning of it.

Jesus is the savior of the whole world, whether you believe that or don't believe it the Bible supports it, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14, plus many, many other scriptures.

The Jesus I believe in is the Savior of the whole world of the Saved !

Robert Pate
July 18th, 2015, 08:51 AM
The Jesus I believe in is the Savior of the whole world of the Saved !

You are not able to learn truth because you cannot believe the Bible.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14. plus many other scriptures.

beloved57
July 18th, 2015, 08:58 AM
You are not able to learn truth because you cannot believe the Bible.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus is the savior of the whole world, 1 John 2:2 also 1 John 4:14. plus many other scriptures.

You have a savior of people who are lost!

All for whom my Savior is a Savior to are Saved!

Robert Pate
July 18th, 2015, 03:38 PM
You have a savior of people who are lost!

All for whom my Savior is a Savior to are Saved!

There is nothing in the Bible about Jesus being the savior of the saved.

He said, "I have come to seek and to save those who are lost".

Before you can be saved you must be lost.

What good is a savior to those who are already saved?

beloved57
July 18th, 2015, 04:05 PM
pate


There is nothing in the Bible about Jesus being the savior of the saved.


There is nothing in the bible about Jesus not being the Saviour of the Saved !

Robert Pate
July 19th, 2015, 06:36 AM
pate



There is nothing in the bible about Jesus not being the Saviour of the Saved !


Show us one scripture where Jesus says that he is the savior of those who are already saved.

If they are already saved then why is Jesus their savior?

Your doctrine is like going down a long hallway of darkness and unbelief and at the end is hell.

beloved57
July 19th, 2015, 06:48 AM
Show us one scripture where Jesus says that he is the savior of those who are already saved.

If they are already saved then why is Jesus their savior?

Your doctrine is like going down a long hallway of darkness and unbelief and at the end is hell.

Silly question!

Robert Pate
July 19th, 2015, 07:03 AM
Silly question!

You are not able to come up with a scripture that says Jesus saves those who are already saved, so you say..."Silly question".

You are always deviating from the truth.

beloved57
July 19th, 2015, 07:18 AM
You are not able to come up with a scripture that says Jesus saves those who are already saved, so you say..."Silly question".

You are always deviating from the truth.

Invalid comments!

Robert Pate
July 19th, 2015, 08:58 AM
Invalid comments!


Where is your scripture?

beloved57
July 19th, 2015, 09:00 AM
Where is your scripture?

Scripture for what? Since when did you believe scripture? You are here daily rejecting scriptures and the Gospel!

Robert Pate
July 19th, 2015, 09:02 AM
Scripture for what? Since when did you believe scripture? You are here daily rejecting scriptures and the Gospel!

All that you can do is make false accusation and stupid comments.

They are going to ban you again.

Nanja
July 19th, 2015, 02:15 PM
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nanja
Actually, the Judgment is a declaration of who is a believer and who isn't: The Sheep vs. the Goats.
For God has already Chosen and Predestinated His Children Eph. 1:4-5 before the foundation of the world 2 Tim. 1:9.

Christ Jesus Lived and Died for every one of them, His Sheep; they are the "many", a remnant Rom. 11:5
whom Christ made Righteous Rom. 5:19. That means, as their Covenant and Surety, they are made Complete in Him Col. 2:10:
He has been obedient to all the Law for them, including Believing for them; for to Believe on Him is a commandment,
an imperative for those He made righteous Acts 16:31. Christ Jesus tasted death for every one of them John 10:11,15.
And then He rose as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb. 13:20: They are Believers indeed!

But that does not include all of mankind.

For the majority are the tares, goats whom the devil sowed in the world Mat. 13:38-39; 25:32-33, 41:
The Vessels of Wrath fitted for destruction:

Rom. 9:22-24 - What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known,
endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,
which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

~~~~~





Good Witness for the Lord!


2 Cor. 2:15-16 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

Praying the Lord continue to Bless your Ministry in the Word of Truth!

~~~~~

beloved57
July 19th, 2015, 02:52 PM
Quote:







2 Cor. 2:15-16 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

Praying the Lord continue to Bless your Ministry in the Word of Truth!

~~~~~

Amen and I am Thankful to God He raised up yourself to Pray for me !

Nanja
July 19th, 2015, 03:18 PM
Amen and I am Thankful to God He raised up yourself to Pray for me !


Phil. 1:3-6 I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,
Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,
For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun
a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

~~~~~

1Mind1Spirit
July 19th, 2015, 03:57 PM
Show us one scripture where Jesus says that he is the savior of those who are already saved.




John 6:37 KJV


37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Robert Pate
July 19th, 2015, 04:25 PM
John 6:37 KJV


37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.



And who does the Father give to Jesus?

The Father gives to Jesus all of the "Whosoevers".

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.

1Mind1Spirit
July 19th, 2015, 09:45 PM
And who does the Father give to Jesus?


Try this.

Those he decides to have mercy on.


Romans 9:15 KJV


15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion .





The Father gives to Jesus all of the "Whosoevers".

"Whosoever that shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" Romans 10:13.


The whosoevers are defined in Romans 9 before you get to 10.

Yer tryin' to put the cart ahead of the horse.

Robert Pate
July 20th, 2015, 05:08 AM
Try this.

Those he decides to have mercy on.


Romans 9:15 KJV


15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy , and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion .







The whosoevers are defined in Romans 9 before you get to 10.

Yer tryin' to put the cart ahead of the horse.


Jesus is the savior and reconciler of the whole world, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Salvation is a free gift from God that has been provided for all by Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:8.

God is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

1Mind1Spirit
July 20th, 2015, 01:05 PM
Jesus is the savior and reconciler of the whole world, 2 Corinthians 5:19.

Salvation is a free gift from God that has been provided for all by Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:8.

God is not willing that any should perish, 2 Peter 3:9.

Not withstanding Romans 9.

Robert Pate
July 21st, 2015, 05:26 AM
Not withstanding Romans 9.

Now what is in Romans 9 that you have a problem with?