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daqq
July 11th, 2015, 05:51 AM
Yeshua Says: Think not that I am come to cast peace upon the earth; I came not to cast peace but a machaira-sword, (of spiritual warfare, Rev 6:4). For I am come to sever a man from his father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter in law from her mother in law, (Deut 13:6-10). And the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household! (Micah 7:5-6). He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that does not take up his stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul shall apollumi-destroy her: but he that apollumi-detroys his soul for my sake shall find her, (Matthew 10:34-39).

Yeshua Says: The enemies of a man shall be those of his own household!

Yeshua has four brethren: are they not Yakob, and Yosef, and Shimon, and Yhudas? Yet while Yeshua speaks to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stand without, desiring to speak with him. And someone says to him, Behold, your mother and your brethren stand without, desiring to speak with you. But he answers and says: Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And Yeshua stretches forth his hand toward his talmidim, and says, Behold, my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in the heavens, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother, (Matthew 12:46-50).


Yeshua stretches forth his hand toward his talmidim:
https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/yeshua-says/rt-hand.png
Yeshua Says: Behold, my mother and my brethren!


Yeshua Says: Do you suppose that I am come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, Nay, but rather division! For from henceforth there shall be five in one house diamerizo-cloven-divided: three against two and two against three. The father shall be divided over the son, and the son over the father; the mother over the daughter, and the daughter over the mother; the mother in law over her daughter in law, and the daughter in law over her mother in law, (Luke 12:51-53).


Yeshua Says: Five in one house cloven! parted! divided!
https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/yeshua-says/three-against-two.png
Yeshua Says: Three against two and two against three!


And five divided are like the ten virgin lamps of the House:
Five on the right hand side and five on the left, (1 Kings 7:49).
Three against two, and two against three, and every man is a house!

So simple even the little ones and children can understand. :)

:sheep:

meshak
July 11th, 2015, 06:19 AM
Good post:)

It started since Jesus' times and never stopped. Christianity supposed to be doing better because we have examples what to follow, yet we never learn.

We have no excuse for our perversion.

We claim to know Him yet we are in humongous mess.

daqq
July 11th, 2015, 06:53 AM
Good post:)

It started since Jesus' times and never stopped. Christianity supposed to be doing better because we have examples what to follow, yet we never learn.

We have no excuse for our perversion.

We claim to know Him yet we are in humongous mess.

Yes, unfortunately most all of us including myself must be nearly ground to powder before we will begin listen and learn, (the powerful pride of the holy people must be completely shattered). :)

Yeshua Says: Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the messengers which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take heed to yourself, watch and pray: for you know not when the time is. For the Son of man is like a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch you therefore: for you know not when the Master of the house comes, at evening, or at midnight, or at the rooster crowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you, I say unto all, WATCH! (Mark 13:30-37).

And the talmid is not only the house but he is likewise designated the porter, (with keys to the doors of the house) and is left in charge of the house while the House Master is likened as if away in a far journey. And the porter of the house is commanded to watch.

Yeshua Says: Watch therefore; for you know not what hour your Master will come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be you also ready: for in such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Master hath made ruler over his household, to give them their meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Master when he comes shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if the evil servant says in his heart, My Master delays his arrival; and shall begin to smite his fellow house-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards; then the Master of that servant shall come in a day when he looks not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, (Matthew 24:42-51).

Who then are the "fellow-servants" of the household of every man?
Soul for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot!

Yeshua Says: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences do come; but woe to the anthropon-man-faced by whom that offence comes! Wherefore if your hand or your foot offend you, cut them off, and cast them from you: it is better for you to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into the aionion fire! And if your eye offend you, pluck him out, and cast him from you: it is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the fire of Gehenna. Take heed that you despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their messengers do always behold the face of my Father which is in the heavens: for the Son of man is come to save that which was lost, (Matthew 18:7-10).

Are any of the little ones lost before the times appointed? Perhaps these little ones are the fellow-servants of the household of every man: the eyes, the ears, the mouth, (with its little member the tongue which sets ablaze the fire of Gehenna) the hands, the feet; all of which belong to the Father in heaven. Five to the right and five to the left; three against two and two against three at war in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank my heavenly Father, for it is by the Testimony given through Messiah Yeshua the Master-Teacher. So then with the mind I myself serve Torah of Elohim; but with the flesh the Torah of an eye for an eye against my unseen enemies. Three evil shepherds I cut off in one year; a foot master, a right hand master, and the ever wandering evil right eye master always looking toward the profane; and my soul despised them, and their souls abhorred me. Then I said to them, I will not feed you: that which is dying let die; and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off! and that which remains let her eat the flesh of her companion. So I disannulled the covenant I had with them in my members and cut them off as the Master says to do. As it is written in the Prophet: Take to yourself yet the vessel of a foolish shepherd: for behold, I raise up a shepherd in the land who shall not visit that which is perishing, or seek that which is scattered, neither heal that which is bruised, nor guide that which is whole: but he shall devour the flesh of the fat ones and will shatter their hoofs to pieces. Woe to the idol shepherd who leaves the flock! A sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened! The lamp which lights the inside of the body of the man is the eye: if therefore your eye be singular-focused, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!

He that has two ears, let him buy a sword:
He that has an ear to hear, let him hear. Chop! Chop! :)

:sheep:

heir
July 11th, 2015, 07:07 AM
Yeshua Says:We live in the "but now" where the righteousness of God without the law is manifested. Do you have the righteousness of God upon you?

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

daqq
July 11th, 2015, 07:11 AM
We live in the "but now" where the righteousness of God without the law is manifested. Do you have the righteousness of God upon you?

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Once upon a Bar Mitzvah there was a young boy whose name was Balal, (behold, is he not mixed?). And Balal just so happened to have a close friend of the genos having been called Baal which was his best friend-associate and closest confidant. And this Balal loved his heavenly Father with all of his heart, and with all of his soul, and the young boy offered up alms of good deeds and prayers every day; even three times daily, with his bedchamber window open and his countenance toward Yerushalaim of above. There was a day when Balal came to present himself before the Father, and the boy was in his bedchamber, on his knees, and as he began to praise and give thanks to the heavenly Father it came to pass that his best friend Baal crept in through his window and tapped him on the shoulder in the midst of his supplications. And the Baal said to Balal; "The circus is coming! the circus is coming! The caravan approaches the gates of the city! There be lions, and bears, and leopards, and wild beasts: come now, let us go out and see the affair, and you can finish your petitions at the evening oblation!"

And at that moment the Most High sent a Malak to the young boy; and Balal heard a still small voice in his heart, saying, "If indeed you love the Father with all of your heart, and with all of your soul, and with all of your mind, and with all of your strength, then guard his commandments: lay them up in your heart and in your soul; remember them and honor them by keeping them within you." And as Balal heard the voice of the word within his heart the young boy was reminded of a passage he recently overheard some of the friends of his Father discussing outside the synagogue: "If your brother the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your closest associate friend who is like unto your own soul, if any of these entice you secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other elohim, which you have not known, neither you, nor your fathers; namely, of the elohim of the people which are round about you, nigh unto you, or far off from you, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him or hide him: But thou shalt surely harag-slay him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones so that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Most High thy Elohim, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. And all Yisrael shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this that is in your midst."

Then received Balal some understanding of this word: so he took up stones, and he stoned his counterpart associate Baal; he stoned him sharp stony words of refusal and rebuke until that Baal died the death under a heaping pile of heaping stony words. And no more did the young man allow the voice of that one to enter into his heart or into his mind. Yet none of the people of the town were the wiser; for in that little village none other had seen or heard of any kid goat named Baal. And as for Balal, (behold, was he not mixed?) the Father sent the Malak of the Covenant once again to deliver him a white stone with the new name Balaq'el having been written therein; for the young man was willing to annihilate a portion of his own soul and cleave away unto his heavenly Father. :)

:sheep:

chrysostom
July 11th, 2015, 07:13 AM
don't reply to any post
if
they can't use the name Jesus

heir
July 11th, 2015, 07:16 AM
Then received Balal some understanding of this word:

Paul writes:

2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

daqq
July 11th, 2015, 07:18 AM
don't reply to any post
if
they can't use the name Jesus

I will never forget the day John Elias introduced me to Jesus. :)

------------------------------ ~ ------------------------------

Sitting on a bench was I, and opposite me was an elder Tzaddik Rabbi, (sitting on the bench was he). We were at an old train station, watching for the train we were, and as we sat there in the depot this early twenties femme strolls up with her little brother in hand, going on about whether the Father in heaven is really real or not. The older sister was engaged in a clearly futile attempt to explain to her little brother how the idea of a heavenly Father was just a religious myth propagated by men from time immemorial to enslave the masses with guilt and the unhealthy fear of torment in hell if the people did not heed the authority of the Pharisees, Scribes, and Elders, (both the modern and the ancient). However the young man was simply having no part of it, and was insistent upon the fact that his heavenly Father is really real because the Bible tells him so and he knew it from the first time mom and pop had said it to be true. Finally the young man looks over at the Tzaddik sitting next to me and asks him what he thinks about whether he truly has a heavenly Father or not. The older sister then interrupts her little brother, attempting to stop him from going any further, saying, Don't bother the old man, and you know you are not supposed to talk to strangers! Then the Tzaddik takes a glance at the older sister, looks at the young man who could not have been more than eight years old, and with a smile he says to the young man, Child, guard your spirit, and never put away the wife of your youth: for your heavenly Father despises putting away and hates divorce. And the young man replies to the Tzaddik, A wife? Haha, how can I be married Sir? Can't you see I'm just a boy? I'm only eight years old! And the Tzaddik answers the lad, saying, Surely you have a wife young man, even the wife of your own bosom who is like unto your own soul; and she has that spirit of belief about her, whose voice I hear as I listen to you speak: the same is that spirit of the child like faith of all the children of the Great King. But beware, and guard your spirit; for if you put away the wife of the covenant of your youth then you will surely grow up just as your older sister, being wedded to a cruel master. And the old sea hag says to the Tzaddik: "Hey wait a minute Mister, neither am I married, I have no husband!" And the Rabbi says to the sea hag, You have well said, "I have no husband", for you have had five husbands; and he that you now have is not your husband, in that you spoke truly! Five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come; but beware the seventh, for his name is Legion. So I spoke up, and I said to the Tzaddik sitting next to me, Rabbi, send her to the back of the train when we board, for because of her my skin crawls. And the Rabbi says to me, The name of the lad is Sumeon, the name of his sister is Maria, and one day her name shall be changed to Mariam; but whence do I know you? And with that my soul is crushed. And with this the Tzemach Tzedek traverses the last train home; and we three follow in his train, his Nazarite hair is white like wool, as white as snow! :)

:sheep:

heir
July 11th, 2015, 07:22 AM
I will never forget the day John Elias introduced me to Jesus. :)

:sheep:When were you stablished according to Paul's gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,...(Romans 16:25-26 KJV). IOW, when did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)?

CherubRam
July 11th, 2015, 08:02 AM
don't reply to any post
if
they can't use the name Jesus


The name Jesus was invented about 1525 AD, by Sir William Tyndale, a protestant reformer from Oxford, England.
Before then the name Jesus did not exist. The Catholics are experts at deceit and misleading people away from God.

Pope Gregory and Paganism.

The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? Maybe the answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.

daqq
July 11th, 2015, 08:10 AM
When were you stablished according to Paul's gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest,...(Romans 16:25-26 KJV). IOW, when did you trust the Lord after hearing and believing the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV)?

Summer of 1979 -- Testimony My Patmo (https://sites.google.com/site/elaiasindex/testimony-my-patmo)

Yeshua Says: It is easier for heaven and earth to pass than for one little horn of the Torah to fail. Whosoever puts away his wife, and marries another, commits adultery: and whosoever marries her that is put away from her husband commits adultery. There was a certain wealthy anthropon, which was vested in purple and fine linen, and made merry, waxing fat in luxury every day. And there was a certain beggar named Eleazar, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the table of the wealthy anthropon: moreover, the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the messengers into the Bay of Abraham: the wealthy anthropon also died, and was buried; and in hades he lifts up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his Bay. And he cries out and says, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame! But Abraham says, Child, remember that thou in thy lifetime did receive thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is fixed a great chasm: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he says, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou would send him to the house of my father, for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torments. But Abraham says unto him, They have Moshe and the Prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they would repent. And he says unto him, If they hear not Moshe and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead! Then says Yeshua unto his talmidim: It is impossible for offences not to come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones! (Luke 16:17-17:2).

Yeshua Says Eleazar-Lazarus is like one of the mistreated "little ones" of the household of the man. The wealthy anthropon man faced has a wicked father back home and five counterpart close associate brethren like unto himself, (behold, seven is the number of them; a wicked father, a son that went into perdition, and five counterpart brethren). Such are the wicked man-faced spirit counterparts of the household of the man, and Yeshua says of them: If they hear not Moshe and the Prophets then neither will they believe though one rose from the dead. Therefore we test the spirits and cut off those wicked counterparts from among our own selves; for they are likened unto tares rising up amidst the wheat, (tares only grow in the outer-bounds flesh which are the fields of the man; for every man is a house with all its lands).

Yeshua Says: The enemies of a man shall be those of his own household. He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and he that does not take up his stake and follow after me is not worthy of me: He that finds his own soul shall apollumi-destroy her; and he that apollumi-destroys his own soul for my sake shall find her!

Yeshua Says: Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod, (Mark 8:15).

Yeshua Says: Take heed, beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees, (Matthew 16:6).

Yeshua Says: Beware of the anthropon man-faced, for he knew what is in the anthropon `Az-paniym fierce countenance, (Deut 28:50, Daniel 8:23, John 2:24-25) for they will deliver you up to their sanhedrins, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; and you shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the heathen, (Matthew 10:17-18). But when they deliver you up to rulers and authorities take no thought how or what you shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what you shall speak. For it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaks in you, (Matthew 10:19-20, Luke 12:11) and because the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the same hour what you ought to say, (Luke 12:12). And one of the company says unto him: Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me. And Yeshua says unto him, Anthrope! who made me a judge or divider over you? And he says unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for the life of a man does not consist in the abundance of things in hand which he possesses. And he speaks a parable unto them:

Yeshua Says: The ground of a certain wealthy anthropou brought forth plentifully; and he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do? for I have not space where to gather up my fruits? And he says, This will I do: I will raze my granaries, and greater shall I build, and there will I gather all my produce and my goodness. And I will say to my own soul, O Soul, thou hast much goodness laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry! But Elohim says to him: Aphron! this night thy soul they shall demand of thee; and what you have prepared, to whom shall it fall?

So the soul is not the anthropos and the anthropos is not the soul. Some anthropon are foolish and others outright evil. Beware what anthropon you let be married to your soul; for it is the last hour, and the whole habitable world lies in wickedness and Torahlessness. Bind up the Testimony and seal the Torah among my talmidim says the Most High, (Isaiah 8:16). And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their Elohim? on behalf of the living should they seek the dead? To the Torah and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them, (Isaiah 8:19-20). Whosoever transgresses, and abides not in the doctrine of Messiah, has not Elohim. He that abides in the doctrine of Messiah, the same has both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, (and again the man is the house) neither bid him "fare thee well" or a prosperous journey in his way: for he that bids him goodspeed is partaker of his evil deeds, (2 John 1:9-11). :)

:sheep:

heir
July 11th, 2015, 08:27 AM
Summer of 1979 -- Paul writes that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. What is it?

daqq
July 11th, 2015, 05:50 PM
Paul writes that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. What is it?

The Good News and Gospel of Messiah is the Testimony of Yeshua, some of which has now been posted here in this thread, but one must hear it, believe it, and seek the kingdom of Elohim first, before he or she will begin to understand. The Testimony of Yeshua is the Power because it teaches us how to root out the evil from our house and household members. This is called washing in the water of the word. Paul likewise calls it immersion for the dead because he heard and believed the Testimony of Yeshua, and he also teaches it:

Paulos Says: What? came the word of Elohim out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Master, (1 Cor 14:36-37).

Paulos Says: Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh: for if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of Elohim, they are the sons of Elohim, (Romans 8:12-14).

Paulos Says: Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for the sake of which things the wrath of Elohim comes upon the children of disobedience: in the which you also walked some time, when you lived in them. But now you also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that you have put off the old man with his deeds: and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him, (Col 3:5-10).

Why does he say MORTIFY or PUT TO DEATH your members which are upon the earth? It is because he understands the Testimony of Yeshua which teaches that the man is the Land. Every man has his own earth-land-soil and the fields thereof because every man is likened to a house with all its household "members". You then are placed in charge over the house while the House Master is reckoned to be away in a far journey. You are the porter of the door of the house while the Master is away and when you entered into the Yeshua faithfulness you gave up your rights to own your own home; for you are no more your own:

Paulos Says: What? know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of Elohim, and you are not your own? For you are bought with a price: therefore glorify Elohim in your body, (1 Cor 6:19-20).

So your body-house-temple is not your own but you are called the porter of the door while the Master of the house is away in a far journey, and therefore Yeshua Says: WATCH!

The Testimony of Yeshua is the salvation of your body because the Master tells us what we must do to fulfill the will of Elohim. If Yeshua had not come and expounded all these things to us the body would truly be lost, (whether speaking of the physical or the spiritual bodies: if there is a natural body then there is a spiritual or heavenly body).

Paulos Says: For the husband is head of the wife, as also the Messiah is head of the congregation: being himself Savior of the body, (Ephesians 5:23).

Paulos Says: The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he says, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject all things unto him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him that put all things under him, that Elohim may be all in all. Otherwise what shall they do which are immersing for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? why even immerse for them? And why stand we in jeopardy every hour? I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Messiah Yeshua our Master, I die daily.

Paul is teaching the commandments of the Master:

Yeshua Says: If your right eye offend you, pluck him out, and cast him from you: for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not that your whole body should be cast into Gehenna. And if your right hand offend you, chop her off, and cast her from you: for it is profitable for you that one of your members should perish, and not that your whole body should be cast into Gehenna, (Matthew 5:29-30).

These are supernal things which have to do with Torah. The Master is expounding Torah for his talmidim-disciples. It is clearly not literally physically chopping off our members, but what is it then? If you allow evil to rule in the members of your household then it is likened to one who has invited devils into his or her house and allowed evil shepherds to take dominion over his household members. Take heed therefore because since you entered into Yeshua faitfulness you and your house are no more your own; for you are bought with a price. Take heed that you despise not one of the little ones and fellow household members of your house; for I say unto you, That in heaven their Angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in the heavens: and He is the Avenger of all such, as we also have now forewarned you and testified:

Paulos Says: Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Master Yeshua, that as you have received of us how you ought to walk and to please Elohim, so you would abound more and more. For you know what commandments we gave you through the Master Yeshua. For this is the will of Elohim, even your sanctification, that you should abstain from fornication: that every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor; not in the passions of lust, even as the Gentiles which know not Elohim: that no man go beyond and defraud his brother, (fellow household member and fellow-servant of the house) in any matter: because that YHWH is the Avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For Elohim has not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. Him despising therefore despises not man, but Elohim, who has also given unto us his Holy Spirit, (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8). :)

Have you carried out the Good News of Yeshua and Paulos?
It concerns your own sanctification you know . . . :crackup:

:sheep:

daqq
July 11th, 2015, 07:06 PM
Yeshua Says: Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: for every one that asks receives, and he that seeks finds, and to him that knocks it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask for bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If you then, being ponerous, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets, (Matthew 7:7-12).

Nethanel the son of a scribe reads in a scroll one Shabbat:

And Yhudah and Yisrael dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan to Beer Sheba, all the days of Sholomo, (1 Kings 4:25).

And again, in a second Shabbat, Nethanel reads in a scroll:

He that guards the fig tree shall eat of the fruit thereof: and he that waits upon his Master shall be honored, (Proverbs 27:18).

In the third Shabbat Nethanel reads 2 Kings 18:31-32 quoted in HaNavi Yeshayah:

Thus says the king of Assyria, Make a blessing with me, and come out to me: and eat you every one of his vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink you every one the waters of his own cistern; until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards, (Isaiah 36:16-17).

In the fourth turning Nethanel reads in HaNavi Miykah and HaNavi Zekaryah:

In the last days it shall come to pass that the mount of the House of YHWH shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of YHWH, and to the House of Elohey Yakob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the Torah shall go forth out of Zion, and the Word of YHWH from Yerushalaim. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of YHWH Tsabaoth has spoken it. (Micah 4:1-4). For behold the stone that I have laid before Yehoshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the inscription thereof, says YHWH Tsabaoth, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, says YHWH Tsabaoth, shall you call every man his neighbor under the vine and under the fig tree, (Zechariah 3:9-10).

So Nethanel enters into his chamber, to chamber in his inner chamber, and bows his head in prayer with his window open towards Yerushalaim of above, and says: O heavenly Father, how can these things be? For I have neither a fig tree nor a vine; please give your servant understanding of your holy Word to know what is the meaning of the fig tree and the vine. In the same day comes Filippos to Nethanel, and says to him, He whom Moshe in Torah and the Prophets did write we have found: Yeshua son of Yosef, of Nazaret, come and see! Yeshua sees Nethanel coming to him, and says of him, Behold, a Yisraelite indeed, in whom there is no guile! Nethanel says to Yeshua, from where do you know me? Yeshua says: Previous to the Filippos calling of you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you. Nethanel says to Yeshua; Rabbi! Son of Elohim! The king you are of Yisrael!

Yeshua says: I am the true vine, and my Father is the Vinedresser. Every shoot in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every shoot that bears fruit, he prunes it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now you are cleansed through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you; as the shoot cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine: likewise neither can you, except you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the shoots: he that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit, for without me you can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a shoot, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done unto you, (Yochanan 15:1-7).

The talmid is one of the fruit bearing branches of Yeshua who is the true Vine.

Yeshua says: Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things, (Matthew 12:33-35).

Yeshua says: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheepskins, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits: Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from tribolos three pronged crowfoot thistles? Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is chopped down and cast into the fire, (Matthew 7:15-19).

The man is likened to a grape and a fig; whether for the good, or whether for the evil.
Every man has a fig and a vine; whether of the good or of the evil genos Assyrian kind.

Yeshua Says: Now learn the Parable of the Fig Tree, (Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28).
And again Yeshua Says: Even all the trees, (Luke 21:29). :)

:sheep:

daqq
July 11th, 2015, 07:14 PM
Having spoken in the holy Mountain with Mosheh and Eliyahu, (being confirmed to his talmidim by the voice of the Father from the effervescent cloud of Light) Yeshua and three of his talmidim came down from the holy Mount to the multitude: and there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, saying, Master, have mercy on my son; for he is lunatic moonstruck, and sore vexed: for often times he falls into the fire, and often times into the water. And I brought him to your talmidim but they could not cure him. Then Yeshua answers and says, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him here to me. And censured him Yeshua; and the daemon departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. Then came the talmidim unto Yeshua themselves apart, saying, Why could not we cast him out? And Yeshua says unto them, Because of your unbelief, and he answers thus:

Yeshua says: Verily I say unto you, If you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you shall say unto this mountain, Depart from here to there! and it shall depart, and nothing shall be impossible unto you! Howbeit this genos-kind does not go out except with prayer and fasting. (Matthew 17:14-21).

Yeshua says the daemonion-devils are like mountains of the evil genos-kind.

Again not long thereafter Yeshua sees a fig tree in the way, and goes up to it, and finds nothing thereon, but leaves only, and says unto it, Let no fruit grow on you henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withers away. And when the talmidim see it, they wonder, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away! And he answers them:

Yeshua says: Verily I say unto you, If you have faith, and do not waiver, you shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if you shall say unto this mountain, Be you taken away and cast into the sea! it shall be done. (Matthew 21:19-21).

Yeshua says the daemonion-devils are like evil mountains and evil fig trees.

So I looked into the mirror of Torah at myself; only to find an Amorite warrior king from the shadowy shades of my past staring back at me, and I said to the mountain in the name of Yeshua: Be you taken away, and cast into the sea! And it came to pass in a latter appointed time that there was a day when the sons of Elohim presented themselves before the Most High: and the adversary came also there among them, and there was war in the heavens, and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and tremors in my earth, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea.

Yeshua rejoicing in the Spirit Holy says: I thank you, O Father, Master of the heavens and the earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and have revealed them unto children: even so, Father, for so it seemed good in your sight. (Luke 10:21).

As the four seasons in a full year there are likewise four generations to the man; autumn, winter, spring, and the summer of your harvest; for the Most High is merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but will by no means clear the guilty: visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children of the children, unto the third and to the fourth generation of the man:

Proverbs 30:11-17 KJV
11. There is a generation [1] that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12. There is a generation [2] that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13. There is a generation, [3] O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14. There is a generation, [4] whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
15. The horseleach [5] hath two daughters, [6-7] crying, Give, give. There are three things that are never satisfied, yea, four things say not, It is enough:
16. The grave; and the barren womb; the earth that is not filled with water; and the fire that saith not, It is enough.
17. The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it.

Daniel 7:7 KJV
7. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

The fourth generation has teeth as swords and jaw teeth as knives which are made of iron.
The fourth generation has a leach with two daughters making a sum of seven:

Matthew 12:38-45 KJV
38. Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation [1] seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41. The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, [2] and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42. The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, [3] and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation [4].

Perhaps the queen of the south is the queen of Sheba-Seven heads? A lioness, a she-bear robbed of her cubs, and a leopardess with four heads and four wings of an unclean fowl in its curve? Sounds like an illegal marriage-covenant, as in the days of Noach, (and Deut 7:1-4). :crackup:

:sheep:

meshak
July 11th, 2015, 09:09 PM
don't reply to any post
if
they can't use the name Jesus

So you don't talk to ImJerusha?

daqq
July 12th, 2015, 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by chrysostom http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/images/bluesaint/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4380609#post4380609)
don't reply to any post
if
they can't use the name Jesus

So you don't talk to ImJerusha?

Yeshua Says: You hypocrites, well did Yeshayahu prophesy of you, saying, This people draw nigh unto Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, (says YHWH). But in vain do they worship Me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: not that which goes into the mouth defiles a man; but that which comes out of the mouth, that defiles a man. Then came his talmidim, and said unto him, Know you not that the Pharisees were offended after they heard this saying? But Yeshua answered, and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father has not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone, they be blind leaders of the blind: and if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch, (Matthew 15:7-14). Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheepskins, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns? or figs from tribolos-three-pronged crowfoot thistles? Thus every good tree brings forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit: a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree not bringing forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. Not every one that says unto me, "Master Kyrie!" shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens; but contrariwise him doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens. Therefore all things whatsoever you would that men should do unto you, do you even so to them: for this is the Torah and the Prophets. Enter yourselves in at the narrow gate, (which is the sixty cubit high gate of the Ezekiel Temple Body of Messiah) for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: for narrow is the gate and straight is the way which leads unto life, and few there be that find it, (Matthew 7:12-21). :)

:sheep:

daqq
July 12th, 2015, 09:42 PM
Nethanel the son of a scribe reads in a scroll one Shabbat:

And Yhudah and Yisrael dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan to Beer Sheba, all the days of Sholomo, (1 Kings 4:25).

And again, in a second Shabbat, Nethanel reads in a scroll:

He that guards the fig tree shall eat of the fruit thereof: and he that waits upon his Master shall be honored, (Proverbs 27:18).

In the third Shabbat Nethanel reads 2 Kings 18:31-32 quoted in HaNavi Yeshayah:

Thus says the king of Assyria, Make a blessing with me, and come out to me: and eat you every one of his vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink you every one the waters of his own cistern; until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards, (Isaiah 36:16-17).

In the fourth turning Nethanel reads in HaNavi Miykah and HaNavi Zekaryah:

In the last days it shall come to pass that the mount of the House of YHWH shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills, and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of YHWH, and to the House of Elohey Yakob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the Torah shall go forth out of Zion, and the Word of YHWH from Yerushalaim. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of YHWH Tsabaoth has spoken it. (Micah 4:1-4). For behold the stone that I have laid before Yehoshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the inscription thereof, says YHWH Tsabaoth, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, says YHWH Tsabaoth, shall you call every man his neighbor under the vine and under the fig tree, (Zechariah 3:9-10).

So Nethanel enters into his chamber, to chamber in his inner chamber, and bows his head in prayer with his window open towards Yerushalaim of above, and says: O heavenly Father, how can these things be? For I have neither a fig tree nor a vine; please give your servant understanding of your holy Word to know what is the meaning of the fig tree and the vine. In the same day comes Filippos to Nethanel, and says to him, He whom Moshe in Torah and the Prophets did write we have found: Yeshua son of Yosef, of Nazaret, come and see! Yeshua sees Nethanel coming to him, and says of him, Behold, a Yisraelite indeed, in whom there is no guile! Nethanel says to Yeshua, from where do you know me? Yeshua says: Previous to the Filippos calling of you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you. Nethanel says to Yeshua; Rabbi! Son of Elohim! The king you are of Yisrael!

Yeshua says: I am the true vine, and my Father is the Vinedresser. Every shoot in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every shoot that bears fruit, he prunes it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now you are cleansed through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you; as the shoot cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine: likewise neither can you, except you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the shoots: he that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit, for without me you can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a shoot, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done unto you, (Yochanan 15:1-7).

The talmid is one of the fruit bearing branches of Yeshua who is the true Vine.

Yeshua says: Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. O generation of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things, (Matthew 12:33-35).

Yeshua says: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheepskins, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits: Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from tribolos three pronged crowfoot thistles? Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is chopped down and cast into the fire, (Matthew 7:15-19).

The man is likened to a grape and a fig; whether for the good, or whether for the evil.
Every man has a fig and a vine; whether of the good or of the evil genos Assyrian kind.

Yeshua Says: Now learn the Parable of the Fig Tree, (Matthew 24:32, Mark 13:28).
And again Yeshua Says: Even all the trees, (Luke 21:29). :)

:sheep:


You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns? or figs from tribolos-three-pronged crowfoot thistles?

Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not YHWH. And the custom of the priests with the people was that whenever any man offered sacrifice, the servant of the priests would come, while the flesh was in seething, with a three pronged mazleg flesh hook of three teeth in his hand. And the servant of the priests would thrust it into the pan, or kettle, or caldron, or pot, and all that the three pronged mazleg flesh hook brought up the priest took for himself. So they did in Shiloh unto all the Yisraelites that came there (to offer). Likewise, before they burned the fat, the servant of the priests came and said to the man that offered, Give flesh to roast for the priest; for he will not have sodden flesh of thee, but raw. And if any man said unto him, Let them not fail to burn the fat presently, and then take as much as thy soul desires; then he would answer him, Nay, but you shall give it me now: and if not, I will take it by force! Wherefore the sin of the young men was very great before YHWH: for men abhorred the offering of YHWH, (1 Samuel 2:12-17). Watching I was, and behold, another beast; a second like a bear, which raised herself up on one side, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth: and they said thus unto it: Arise, devour much flesh!

And the three pronged mazleg flesh hook is likewise allegorized in the parable saying of the tribolos three pronged crowfoot thistle because it is a doctrine of the Assyrian. Note the grapes which come from the vine and the figs in the following statement from the Master:

Matthew 7:16 KJV
16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of [GSN#5146 tribolos] thistles?

Original Strong's Ref. #5146
Romanized tribolos
Pronounced trib'-ol-os
from GSN5140 and GSN0956; properly, a crow-foot (three-pronged obstruction in war), i.e. (by analogy) a thorny plant (caltrop):
KJV--brier, thistle.

III Corps Insignia:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/3_Corps_Shoulder_Sleeve_Insignia.svg/178px-3_Corps_Shoulder_Sleeve_Insignia.svg.png
https://en.wiki2.org/wiki/Caltrop

Roman Crowfoot Caltrop:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d0/Roman_Caltorp.jpg/240px-Roman_Caltorp.jpg
https://en.wiki2.org/wiki/Caltrop

Assyro-Babylonian-Roman Tribulus:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg/267px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:JohnChrysostom

(Give credit where credit is due! :)) :crackup:

Thus we see a link by mention of the grapes and figs in the passage above: and it is the Assyrian that offers a false Way and Life to the people of Yisrael if they do homage to him and honor him with a blessing:

1 Kings 4:25
25. And Yhudah and Yisrael dwelt safely, every man under his vine and under his fig tree, from Dan even to Beersheba, all the days of Sholomoh.

2 Kings 18:31-33 (cf. Isaiah 36:16-18)
31. Hearken not to Hezekiah: for thus says the king of Assyria, Make a blessing with me, and come out to me, and then eat you every man of his own vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink you every one the waters of his own cistern:
32. Until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of oil olive and of honey, that you may live, and not die: and hearken not unto Hezekiah, when he persuades you, saying, "YHWH will deliver us."
33. Have any of the elohim of the nations delivered at all his land out of the hand of the king of Assyria?

Zechariah 3:8-10
8. Hear now, Yehoshua the High Priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men of an omen-sign: for, behold, I will bring forth My servant; Tsemach-Branch.
9. For behold, the stone that I have laid before Yehoshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, says YHWH Tsabaoth, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10. In that day, says YHWH Tsabaoth, you shall invite each one his neighbor under the vine and under the fig tree!

Micah 4:1-5
1. But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the House of YHWH shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of YHWH, and to the House of the Elohim of Yakob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths: for the Torah shall go forth from Zion, and the Word of YHWH from Yerushalaim.
3. And He shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of YHWH Tsabaoth has spoken it:
5. For all people will walk every one in the name of his elohim, but we will walk in the name of YHWH our Elohim for ever and ever.

What therefore is the name of the false elohim-god spoken of in Micah 4:5? By the context and with the other similar passages quoted herein his name is clearly the Assyrian, who offers up similar but false promises and a false covenant of false peace to the people of Yisrael as recorded in 2 Kings 18:31-33 and Isaiah 36:16-18. The Assyrian offers up a false Vine because he is the teacher of a false doctrine of false peace and safety under his shadow while the only True Vine is Yeshua, (John 15:1). And according to Matthew 7:16, with the typology laid out above herein from the Scripture, the fruit of the Assyrian grape vine and fig tree is the false teaching of a tripartite tribolos crowfoot thistle and three pronged mazleg flesh hook theology of the heathen nations. :)

:sheep:

daqq
July 13th, 2015, 02:38 AM
Yeshua Says: Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Herod, (Mark 8:15).

Yeshua Says: Take heed, beware the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees, (Matthew 16:6).

Yeshua Says: Beware of the anthropon man-faced, (for he knew what is in the anthropon with their fierce `Az-paniym-countenances, Deut 28:50, Daniel 8:23) for they will deliver you up to the sanhedrins, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; and you shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the heathen, (Matthew 10:17).

Yeshua Says: Whoso eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day, (for the Testimony of Yeshua is the blood of the pure grape of our Covenant which drink offering cleanses the inside of the man, and the flesh of Messiah Yeshua is Torah the Manna-Word quail-dove parted to the twelve, and the bones are Torah the structure: none broken). For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him. As the Living Father has sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eats [of] me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from the heavens; not as your fathers did eat manna and are dead: he that eats of this bread shall live for ever! Many therefore of his talmidim, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? Yeshua says to them: Does this offend you? What then if you shall see the Son of man ascend up to where he was before? It is the Spirit that quickens: the flesh profits nothing, the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life, (John 6:54-63).

Yeshua issues forth and departs from the temple; and his talmidim come to him for to show him the magnificent stones and workmanship of the temple. Yeshua Says: Take no heed of all these things! verily I say unto you, there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down! But having been seated upon the mount of Olives, then Petros, and Yakobos, and Yohannes, and Andreas, come to him each of his own self, saying, Foretell to us when these things shall come to pass, and what is the sign of your parousia and the consummation of the age? And Yeshua answers them:

Yeshua Says: Take heed that no one deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, "I am the Messiah!", and also, "I am of the Messiah!" and they shall deceive many, (beware the anthropon man-faced countenances which are false testimony spirits gone out into the world and which creep in unawares while you feast in the Word!). And you shall hear of spiritual wars and reports of spiritual warfare: see that you be not troubled, for all these things must come to pass; but the end is not yet, (for it is yet for the mo`ed appointment, Daniel 11:27). For there shall rise up ethnos upon ethnos, and dominion upon dominion, (for every man has his dominion-empire-earth-lands and soil of the adamah of the heart) and there shall be famine and seismos land tremors according to those places. All these are the beginning of odin-birth-pang-throes. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and you shall be hated of all the heathen for the sake of my name. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise and shall deceive many. And because lawlessness shall be increased the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end; the same shall be delivered. And this Good News Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all of the habitable land for a witness to all the heathen: and then shall the end come, (Matthew 24, Mark 13).

And this is the perfect order given through the Testimony of the Master:

1) Many false Messiah spirits claiming to be "of Messiah" shall deceive many.
2) Spiritual warfare and rumors-reports of spiritual warfare but the end is not yet.
3) Babylon, Maday-Medes, Paras-Persia: Sar Yavan over Sar Paras.
4) Famines and fastings, tremors of the land of the man, birth pangs, woes, and throes.
5) THEN SHALL THEY DELIVER YOU UP TO THEIR SANHEDRINS AND SHALL KILL YOU.
6) Many shall be offended, many more false prophets, Torahlessness abounding, no love.
7) BUT HE THAT ENDURES UNTO THE END SHALL BE DELIVERED.

Each in his or her own appointed times, (and none shall be alone in his appointed times). :)

:sheep:

daqq
July 13th, 2015, 03:44 AM
Ye Olde Fishermans Tale ~ Once there was a Sea Captain who called up two of his mariner fishermen before him to put forth the orders for the day. He said to them both: Go down to the Sea and cast in a crooked hook. Take up the first fish that bites upon the crooked hook and snatch him up out from the Sea; then suspend him in mid-air, squeezing the fish in your hand. And, behold, the gold will come forth out of his mouth. Then bring back to me so that I may settle with each of you his wages.

So the one wise mariner heeded the commandment of his Captain, and went down to the Sea with a crooked hook, and cast it into the Sea. And, behold, a great hogfish, full of pride, darted up with a flashy splash to the surface and bit down hard upon the crooked hook. And the wise mariner plucked him up from the Sea, suspending the hogfish in mid-air, and squeezed him in his hand so as to remove the crooked hook from his jaw. And as the mariner held the fish and squeezed; the intense thlipsis-pressure was too great for the old hogfish and he gave up the golden twin horned `aza'zel which came forth out of his mouth. So the wise mariner went on his way and returned to the Sea Captain with the golden twin horned `aza'zel locked up in his purse.

But the unwise mariner had said to himself: I will go down to the lake, and cast in my net thence; and thus shall I have a multitude of fish by and by; and once I return with the gold then all that is the excess flesh will be mine for the keeping. So he went his merry way to the lake and cast in his net, and the catch was great, and he drew forth a great multitude of fish of all kinds. Yet from all of that which he had drawn up in his net he found no such fish with any golden coin in its mouth. So he went on his merry way back to the Sea Captain, rich in flesh, yet not having discovered the gold.

And when the two fishermen had arrived back at camp the one wise mariner was called upon to give an account before the Sea Captain; and coming up he says to his Captain, Yea, Master, it was exactly as you said, for lo and behold this wily hogfish, full of pride, darted straight to the surface and bit down hard upon that crooked hook as soon as ever I had cast it into the Sea! And, behold, a golden frog came forth from his mouth; even as it was suspended in mid-air, and in great tribulation, and here now is that golden two horned `aza'zel. And the Sea Captain says unto him: Well done, wise and faithful servant; the golden toad of an `aza'zel is the soul of a soul worth one shekel. Half is for me and the other half is in the place of you! Enter into the great feast prepared for all of the faithful mariners of my Father.

Then the unwise mariner was called up to give an account, and going up he answered, and said; Not was it so as you had bidden, O Master, for though I dragged my net, and a great multitude of fish of all kinds were drawn up from the lake: yet was there not to be found any kind of fish with a golden coin in his mouth. And the Sea Captain says unto the unwise mariner: Unwise and wicked servant! Had you gone to where I had commanded you, and had you done as I had commanded you to do, then would you have returned with the price that is upon your own head! But in your greed you went to my private lake and drew forth abundantly out of my own private stock! And the Sea Captain called his armored Centaurs, and commanded them, saying, Take this wily hogfish from before me and cast him into my Sea!

:sheep:

daqq
July 13th, 2015, 08:25 AM
The Eunuch Dream ~ Near the end of a night of sweet sleep upon my floor roll a dream arrived at sunrise. Having no bed to lay my head can sometimes make the pillow like a stone in the clouds of my heavens. As I began to awaken, (so I thought in the dream but none the less it was the dream) I found an arm, having been severed at the elbow, and laying lifeless and dead above my head, upon the pillow of stone wherein my mind had found its rest this night. In shock and horror I grabbed the severed arm to inspect it and there was no blood to be found, neither any mess of fluids; for it had long been severed, and was completely dried out and dead. And I began to wonder who might do such a horrendous and terrible thing? And who might be lurking in the night? And who or what might be watching me? And what was the warning they were sending to me? And then I truly began to fear and tremble in the midst of this dream as I suddenly realized that some one must have been in my room this night. So I cried out to the Most High, saying, Father, help me to understand what this means! Why has this severed arm that is long time dead and completely withered and dried up been left resting on my stony pillow above my head? And who would do such a thing? And then I began to awaken from the dream, and I began to realize that one of my arms had been put to sleep for lack of circulation and was completely dead an numb. And there was I left laying, holding with my other hand my own arm, when it shook itself back to life. It had been wrapped around above my head on the pillow of stone as I slept, and the circulation to it was clean dried up, and there was no feeling in it as if it was cut off, and it had become a separate "member" of the dream. And I heard a voice, saying, Did I not say I would bring with me those that sleep when I come? Behold, you have your arm which you truncated-circumcised-cut off long ago because of offenses according to My Word. The arm was dead, yet now it lives: let no man defraud his brother in this matter, for these little ones are members of My Household and you are not your own. Neither let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree!"

And I remembered some of the passages from where these words derive:

Isaiah 56:1-7 KJV
1. Thus saith the Lord, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.
2. Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
3. Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
4. For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5. Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
6. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7. Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Matthew 18:8-11 KJV
8. Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
10. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11. For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Matthew 19:12 KJV
12. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Matthew 24:45-50 KJV
45. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46. Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49. And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50. The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

Mark 13:31-37 KJV
31. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
32. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36. Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

Revelation 20:4
4. And I saw thrones, and they were seated, and judgment was given unto them: even the souls of them having been truncated through the Testimony of Yeshua, and through the Word of God, and which not had bowed to the beast, neither to the image of him, neither had received the mark upon their foreheads and upon the hands of them. And they lived and reigned with the Messiah a thousand years.

If the man is a house then the house is divided into different compartments and everything is personified especially for the purposes of sin and evil. The lesser "members" of our households are likened to "brothers" and "little ones" whom we are given charge to watch over and protect. However, something sinister dwells in the flesh-commons-profane or "outer bounds" and "unwalled" areas of the house-temple of the man, and the evil which dwells in the flesh outer bounds of the house-temple desires to take control over these little ones so as to use them for various iniquities. Let every man understand therefore that we are set in charge of the house in which we dwell while the House Master is away: "Sin lies at the door; and unto you is his desire, and you must rule over him!"

Matthew 18:10 KJV
10. Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Therefore Paul says to the Thessalonians that "the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified" because these things concern the body, which is the house, which is the temple of the Creator, and is not our own. Every part of the body belongs to the Father even down to the five little virgin toes on the right foot and the five on the left, ("Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path") and every separate "member" of the body has a "messenger" that in heaven does always behold the face of the Father which is in the heavens. We are as keepers put in charge over these "lesser members of the household" while the Master is away in a far journey. We are likened to "the porter of the house" which has the keys and watches the door until the Master of the house returns, (Mark 13:34). This is why Paul states to the Thessalonians that these things concern our own sanctification, and knowing how to possess our own vessels, and are given by the commandments of Yeshua himself:

1 Thessalonians 4:1-14 KJV
1. Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.
2. For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4. That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5. Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6. That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8. He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
9. But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
10. And indeed ye do it toward all the brethren which are in all Macedonia: but we beseech you, brethren, that ye increase more and more;
11. And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;
12. That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Let not sin have dominion in your mortal body: PUT HIM TO DEATH.

Romans 6:12-13 KJV
12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Romans 8:11-14 KJV
11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Colossians 3:2-6 KJV
2. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6. For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

The "unruly members" of the household which the faithful and patient have been forced to put to sleep, (mortify, slay, put to death) will be restored anew from the Father, in the times of refreshing and regeneration, when all things shall be made new and wherein dwells righteousness. This is the same "will of God" of which the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews also writes:

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

:sheep:

daqq
July 14th, 2015, 12:18 AM
Once upon the twinkling of a twilight there is an oasis by the desert having been called Amphodon. One day the Great King who owns all of the Land passes by to inspect his garden oasis in the desert. As he approaches the oasis he finds two poor beggars having wandered in from the wilderness; neither of which have yet the strength left in him so as to make it so far as the fountain of the Water of Life which flows in the midst of the oasis paradise. And having collapsed they two lay there by the wayside, at the gate of Amphodon, parched from the scorching desert sun and slowly withering away. And when King Egoeimiho On sees them by the wayside laying there dying; he comes near, and says to them, I am LIFE! and all of Me LIVES, I will tell you what I will do: I will cut from My own Right Arm and give it you for food; eat all of it this night, leave nothing til the morning come! But know this; that in My Right Arm is LIFE, though I cut from him for you: My Arm will repose until about this time tomorrow, at twilight, and then will he awaken to LIFE ETERNAL. If indeed therefore you do eat all of him then you too shall LIVE because he LIVES. Do as I say and LIVE! For why should you die? So the Great King Egoeimiho On cuts to them from His own Right Arm and gives to them for to completely consume; commanding them to eat all, leaving nothing til the morning come, and the Great King goes up from the two. However, of the two dying beggars, one was foolish and the other was wise: and they two began to eat, and the first taste thereof is like wafers made with honey, as sweet as honey to the mouth; and they two immediately begin to revive upon the very first morsel. But on the second taste a bitterness begins to enter into the belly of the two. So the one foolish beggar says to his fellow: My belly is full enough already and I feel revitalized and full of life; need I to eat any more for now? I will for now go drink from the fountain of water. But I will tell you what I am going to do with my portion of this mighty Arm: of that which remains I will stand upon a stake and this will be my God, for truly has it saved me! And if it comes to life tomorrow then I will surely know it is my God; and so shall I worship the mighty Arm for the rest of my days. But the one wise beggar likewise himself drinks from the fountain of the Water of Life, but in secret, through doing all that the Great King had commanded him to do; eating all of his portion of the Arm that night, leaving nothing til his morning come: and he falls on asleep and rests through the next day. And when the next evening comes to pass, in the double light of twilight, the Great King HO-ON calls up His mighty Right Arm to return back to His Throne, (and His Right Arm never returns to Him void). But the foolish beggar is in the midst of worshiping his portion of the mighty Arm when it bursts into a fiery flame, completely consumes, and the smoke thereof rises up into heaven like the sweet smelling savor of a holy sacrifice unto the Most High God. So the foolish beggar runs quickly to awaken his fellow, so as to tell him what has happened with his portion of the holy Arm, but his friend is likewise nowhere to be found. None of the permanent dwellers upon the earth are really ever quite sure what happens to the wise beggar who becomes a son: but the double blind beggar Bar-Timaios son of Timaios starts his own new Elymas Bar-Yeshua son of Yeshua false religion, making Yeshua into his father; and the podiums, pedestals, and steeples of his sheeples are strewn across the land in every brothel of every city.

Exodus 3:14 LXX-Septuagint
14 καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν λέγων· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν. καὶ εἶπεν· οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς ᾿Ισραήλ· ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς.
http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=2&page=3

Exodus 3:14
14. And Elohim said to Mosheh: Ego eimi HO ON, (I am HE WHO IS). And He said, Thus shall you say unto the sons of Yisrael: "HO ON has sent me to you."

:sheep:

daqq
July 14th, 2015, 12:19 AM
Yeshua Says: Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad! Then say the Yhudim unto him, You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham? Yeshua says unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am before Abraham comes to pass! (for father Abraham represents the Covenant and his wife Sarah represents the allegory of the holy city Yerushalaim of Above, our covenant mother, Galatians 4:22-27). Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Yeshua concealed himself, and issued forth from the temple, passing through the midst of them, and passed on by, (John 8:56-59).

With these things the Word of YHWH comes unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am your magen-shield, and your reward shall be exceeding greatly increased! And Abram says, Adonay YHWH, what will you give me, seeing I walk barren and the son of the mesheq-inheritor of my house is dam-meseq Eliezer? And Abram says, Behold, to me you have given no seed: and, lo, the son of my house is disinheriting me. And, behold, the Word of YHWH says to him: This shall not be your inheritor, but that which shall come forth out of your own me`ah-heart-belly-bowels: he shall be your inheritor. And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward the heavens, and tell the stars if you can number them: and he said unto him, So shall your seed be. And he faithfully trusted in YHWH; and He counted it unto him for uprightness. And He said unto him, I am YHWH that brought you out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give you this land to inherit it. And he said, Adonay YHWH, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it? And He said unto him, Take for Me from the treble of an `eglah-heifer, and from the treble of an `ez-she goat, and from the treble of a ram, and a tor-turtledove or a gozal-nestling. And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against his neighbor: but the tsippor-clean bird divided he not. And the vultures descended upon the carcasses, upon the divided portions thereof, and Abram sat thereby, (Septuagint). And when the sun was going down, a trance of deep sleep fell over Abram; and behold, an horrible terror of great darkness fell upon him. And He said unto Abram, Know of a surety that your seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not their own, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years, and also that nation whom they shall serve will I judge, and afterward shall they come out with great substance. And you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried in a good old age: but in the fourth generation they shall come to this place again, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. And it came to pass when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold, a tannur-fire pot, (with a lake of fire therein) and vapor of smoke, and fire of lightning that passed between the pieces. In the same day YHWH cut a covenant unto Abram, (Genesis 15:1-18).

And the great city of Abram was divided into third parts . . .
And the cities of the nations fell . . .

:sheep:

daqq
July 14th, 2015, 12:20 AM
Yeshua Says: to the Elders, Chief Priest Sadducees, and to the Pharisees, Did you never read in the Scripture that the Stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the Rosh-Head of the Pinnah-Corner: this is of YHWH, and it is marvelous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of Elohim shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And when the Chief Priests and the Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spoke of them. And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them, and they left him, and went their way, and began plotting against him to have him put to death. And they crucified Messiah Yeshua, and when they did they sealed their own fate exactly as he had foretold they would; for in the very place where they crucified Messiah was the Stone of the Rosh-Head, in the corner-side to the north: the same is ha-Eben ha-Ezel, the Stone of Departure, which Stone also the builders rejected because king David had attempted to number the people and sinned, (though king David repented the consequence was the alternate threshing floor of Araunah location). The place where father Abraham offered up his only son is called Golgotha, the Place of the Skull, Moriah Olivet, the highest point on Mount Moriah, that Great High Mountain. And when they crucified the Master Yeshua there was a great earthquake, and the rocks rent, and the earth opened up at the foot of the cross to receive the blood of the innocent Lamb of Elohim, and the massive amount of blood from the spear thrust into the House of the Side ran down through the fissure of Azal, the fissure in the rock, and the blood poured onto the Mercy Seat cover of the Ark of the Covenant which was resting below, where HaNavi Yirmeyahu had placed it so long before, in the Bay of Abraham. And when the blood sprinkled onto the Mercy Seat the great TaNaK Body of Moshe were awakened, and came forth from the tomb upon the Resurrection of Messiah. And in the great earthquake the door posts of the threshold of the house were violently shaken as in the great earthquake which occurred in the days of Uzziah king of Yhudah, (Isaiah 6:4). And the massive partition veil to the Holy Holiest was torn in two at the midst from the violent shaking of the cubit door posts from which it was hung. And the Great Sanhedrin Chamber of Stone was nearly demolished; so badly was it damaged that the Sanhedrin was forced to meet elsewhere. Had the princes of this world known these things they would not have crucified the Master of Glory: but the Most High saves the tabernacle-tents of Yhudah first, as He said He would and continues to do.

http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/moriah-olivet3.gif

And there was another great earthquake at the Resurrection of Messiah . . .
And the Great City was divided into three parts . . .
And the cities of the heathen fell . . .

:sheep: (http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/olivet-zeytiym.html)

daqq
July 27th, 2015, 01:14 AM
It came to pass, as Yeshua went to Yerushalaim, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and the Galilees. And as he entered into a certain village there met him ten leprous men, which stood afar off: and they lifted up their voices, and said, Yeshua, Epistata-Commander, have mercy on us! And seeing them Yeshua responds:

Yeshua Says: Go show yourselves unto the priests.

And it came to pass, as they went, that they were cleansed. And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified Elohim, and fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks, (for hereof is the true Priest and Epistata-Commander) and he was a Samaritan. And Yeshua answers him:

Yeshua Says: Were there not ten cleansed? But where are the nine? There are not found those that returned to give glory to Elohim except the foreigner hereof? And he said unto him, Anastas! Go forth, your faith-believing-trust has delivered you, (Luke 17:11-19). For the Son of man has power over the earth to send away sins, (Matthew 9:6) and every man has his own erets-earth-land and adamah-soil of the heart. :)

:sheep:

daqq
July 27th, 2015, 01:16 AM
Yeshua entered into a ship, and crossed over, and came into his own city. And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on a stretcher: and Yeshua seeing their faith said unto the paralytic, Have courage, teknon, (offspring) your sins are sent away. And behold, certain of the Scribes said within themselves, That is blasphemy! And having known their thoughts Yeshua responds to them:

Yeshua Says: Why do you think evil in your hearts? For what is easier to say, Your sins are sent away? or to say, Rise up and walk? But so that you may know that the Son of man has authority over the earth to send away sins, (then he says to the paralytic) Rise up, take up your bed, and go to your house!

And he arose and departed to his house. Moreover the multitudes, having seen it, fearfully reverenced and glorified Elohim for having given such authority unto men, (Matthew 9:1-8). But in another place, (John 5:8-14) the man that was made whole took up his bed in the day of Shabbat. The Yhudim therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the day of Shabbat: it is not lawful for you to carry your bed! He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up your bed and walk! Then they questioned him, What man is it that said unto you, Take up your bed and walk? And he that was healed knew not who it was; for Yeshua had quietly withdrawn, a multitude being in that place. But afterward Yeshua finds him in the temple:

Yeshua Says: Behold, you are become whole; sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto you!

:sheep:

Ben Masada
July 27th, 2015, 01:53 AM
Yeshua Says: Think not that I am come to cast peace upon the earth; I came not to cast peace but a machaira-sword, (of spiritual warfare, Rev 6:4). For I am come to sever a man from his father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter in law from her mother in law, (Deut 13:6-10). And the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household! (Micah 7:5-6). He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that does not take up his stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul shall apollumi-destroy her: but he that apollumi-detroys his soul for my sake shall find her, (Matthew 10:34-39).

Yeshua Says: The enemies of a man shall be those of his own household!

Yeshua has four brethren: are they not Yakob, and Yosef, and Shimon, and Yhudas? Yet while Yeshua speaks to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stand without, desiring to speak with him. And someone says to him, Behold, your mother and your brethren stand without, desiring to speak with you. But he answers and says: Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And Yeshua stretches forth his hand toward his talmidim, and says, Behold, my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in the heavens, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother, (Matthew 12:46-50).

Yeshua stretches forth his hand toward his talmidim:
http://sheshbazzardaq.com/right-hand-of-power.gif
Yeshua Says: Behold, my mother and my brethren!

Yeshua Says: Do you suppose that I am come to give peace in the earth? I tell you, Nay, but rather division! For from henceforth there shall be five in one house diamerizo-cloven-divided: three against two and two against three. The father shall be divided over the son, and the son over the father; the mother over the daughter, and the daughter over the mother; the mother in law over her daughter in law, and the daughter in law over her mother in law, (Luke 12:51-53).

Yeshua Says: Five in one house cloven! parted! divided!
http://sheshbazzardaq.com/three-against-two.gif
Yeshua Says: Three against two and two against three!

And five divided are like the ten virgin lamps of the House:
Five on the right hand side and five on the left, (1 Kings 7:49).
Three against two, and two against three, and every man is a house!

So simple even the little ones and children can understand. :)

:sheep:

Yeshua says, used to say or said? I do not understand why he is still referred to in the present tense when he can no longer say any thing. I am aware that he died and that, by faith, Christians claim that he resurrected. However, two evidences contradict that Christian assertion: First, is the fact that he was a Jew and, according to his Faith which was Judaism, once dead no one can ever return. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21) And for the second evidence, there was no eyewitness for the Christian claim of resurrection. Mind you, I said "eyewitness" and not the simple claim of witnesses.

daqq
July 27th, 2015, 02:02 AM
Once upon a kippurim there was a priest of Elohim; a man which had not yet been revealed to his own, but was indeed being used of Elohim to work good works, healings, cures, good will, and peace toward all his brethren to the glory of Elohim. One day the priest of Elohim came into his own beloved city, and they brought to him a paralytic man lying on a stretcher: and the priest of Elohim, seeing their faith, said unto the paralytic; Have courage, teknon, (young child, for he was not yet a son of the kingdom) Your sins are aphiemi-sent away. But hearing this saying there were certain of the Scribes present which said within themselves, That is blasphemy! (for only the current High Priest of the great city was vested with the power and authority from on High to send away the sins of the people, and that was only once in the year at the Great Day of Yom Kippurim Atonements). So the priest of Elohim, knowing their thoughts, said to them, Why do you think evil in your hearts? For what is easier to say, Your sins are aphiemi-sent away? or to say, Rise up and walk? But so that you may know that the Son of man has authority over the earth to aphiemi-send away sins, (then he says to the paralytic) Rise up, take up your bed, and go to your house! And the paralytic man arose, cured, and departed to the house of Elohim to give thanks. But the day wherein this occurred was Shabbat, yet he took up his bed as the Commander of the Covenant had ordered. And as he approached nigh unto the temple the elders therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the day of Shabbat: it is not lawful for you to carry your bed! But the healed man answered them, saying, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up your bed and walk. Then they began to interrogate him, and said to him, What man is it that said unto you, Take up your bed and walk? And he that was healed knew not who it was, for the priest of Elohim had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. But afterward the priest of Elohim found the cured man in the temple, and said to him, Behold, you are become whole; sin no more, lest a more evil thing come unto you!

And after two great days it came to pass that there was certain sect of talmidim that heard these words of the High Priest of Elohim, saying, "Sin no more, lest a more evil thing come unto you!" And they besought an answer from the Most High, in His Word, as to what this more evil thing might be insomuch that they might also know the signs. And the Most High sent a messenger to show unto them things to come; and the messenger brought into remembrance the words of the High Priest, which said unto the them, If I with the Finger of Elohim do cast out daemonion, no doubt the kingdom of Elohim is come upon you! When a strong armed man guards his palace, his goods are in peace: but when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he takes from him all his armor wherein he trusted and divides his spoils. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathers not with me scatters. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walks through dry-arid places seeking rest. And finding none, he says, I will return unto my house from whence I came out. And when he comes, he finds the house swept and put in order. Then goes he, and associates unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and having entered in, they dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

However, there were some of the talmidim which believed not this word, for they said unto themselves, All of my sins are aphiemi-pardoned-forgiven! But those talmidim who believed this word said unto themselves, All of my sins are aphiemi-sent away upon the mortally wounded head of my old man twin goat to-for Azazel, but if they are sent away into the dry places of the desert then they can return if I willfully continue in the sins of my old man nature! And so there came to be a division in the sect. :crackup:

:sheep:

daqq
July 27th, 2015, 02:12 AM
Yeshua says, used to say or said? I do not understand why he is still referred to in the present tense when he can no longer say any thing. I am aware that he died and that, by faith, Christians claim that he resurrected. However, two evidences contradict that Christian assertion: First, is the fact that he was a Jew and, according to his Faith which was Judaism, once dead no one can ever return. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21) And for the second evidence, there was no eyewitness for the Christian claim of resurrection. Mind you, I said "eyewitness" and not the simple claim of witnesses.

Yeshua Says: I will not leave you as orphans, I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world sees me no more; but you see me: because I live, you shall live also. At that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Yhudas says unto him, (not Sikariy) Master, how is it that you will manifest yourself unto us, and not unto the world? Yeshua answers and says to him, If a man loves me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loves me not keeps not my sayings: and the Memra-Logos which you hear is not of me, but contrariwise [it is] of the Sender of me, the Father, (John 14:18-24). :)

:sheep:

Ben Masada
July 27th, 2015, 03:02 AM
Once upon a kippurim there was a priest of Elohim; a man which had not yet been revealed to his own, but was indeed being used of Elohim to work good works, healings, cures, good will, and peace toward all his brethren to the glory of Elohim. One day the priest of Elohim came into his own beloved city, and they brought to him a paralytic man lying on a stretcher: and the priest of Elohim, seeing their faith, said unto the paralytic; Have courage, teknon, (young child, for he was not yet a son of the kingdom) Your sins are aphiemi-sent away. But hearing this saying there were certain of the Scribes present which said within themselves, That is blasphemy! (for only the current High Priest of the great city was vested with the power and authority from on High to send away the sins of the people, and that was only once in the year at the Great Day of Yom Kippurim Atonements). So the priest of Elohim, knowing their thoughts, said to them, Why do you think evil in your hearts? For what is easier to say, Your sins are aphiemi-sent away? or to say, Rise up and walk? But so that you may know that the Son of man has authority over the earth to aphiemi-send away sins, (then he says to the paralytic) Rise up, take up your bed, and go to your house! And the paralytic man arose, cured, and departed to the house of Elohim to give thanks. But the day wherein this occurred was Shabbat, yet he took up his bed as the Commander of the Covenant had ordered. And as he approached nigh unto the temple the elders therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the day of Shabbat: it is not lawful for you to carry your bed! But the healed man answered them, saying, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up your bed and walk. Then they began to interrogate him, and said to him, What man is it that said unto you, Take up your bed and walk? And he that was healed knew not who it was, for the priest of Elohim had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. But afterward the priest of Elohim found the cured man in the temple, and said to him, Behold, you are become whole; sin no more, lest a more evil thing come unto you!

And after two great days it came to pass that there was certain sect of talmidim that heard these words of the High Priest of Elohim, saying, "Sin no more, lest a more evil thing come unto you!" And they besought an answer from the Most High, in His Word, as to what this more evil thing might be insomuch that they might also know the signs. And the Most High sent a messenger to show unto them things to come; and the messenger brought into remembrance the words of the High Priest, which said unto the them, If I with the Finger of Elohim do cast out daemonion, no doubt the kingdom of Elohim is come upon you! When a strong armed man guards his palace, his goods are in peace: but when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he takes from him all his armor wherein he trusted and divides his spoils. He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathers not with me scatters. When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walks through dry-arid places seeking rest. And finding none, he says, I will return unto my house from whence I came out. And when he comes, he finds the house swept and put in order. Then goes he, and associates unto himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and having entered in, they dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first.

However, there were some of the talmidim which believed not this word, for they said unto themselves, All of my sins are aphiemi-pardoned-forgiven! But those talmidim who believed this word said unto themselves, All of my sins are aphiemi-sent away upon the mortally wounded head of my old man twin goat to-for Azazel, but if they are sent away into the dry places of the desert then they can return if I willfully continue in the sins of my old man nature! And so there came to be a division in the sect. :crackup:

:sheep:

Daqq, I have just read your post above and, as I can see, you have posted it as an allegory or parable which means the same. If I don't make a mistake, the point in the parable is a division in the sect. I know that in a parable, the symbols used don't mean any thing but are used only to come to the bottom line which is the division in the sect, whatever you mean by that. That's the meaning of a parable but, I am sure, you are calling our attention to much more that just that.

You start with Jesus as a priest of Elohim who in the course of the parable got somehow promoted to the position of High Priest. I hope that you are not implying that Jesus was from the Tribe of Levi because only Levites could be priests or High Priests. In fact, if we are to believe Mat. 1:18 Jesus was a Jew without a Tribe in Israel because by being him denied that Joseph was his biological father, he also missed to be from the Tribe of Judah.

Paul seemed to have found a solution for Jesus by claiming that he was son of God without a biological Jewish father. (Acts 9:20) You know, according to the Greek myth of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. There are many more points as hot as that about your "priest of Elohim" but, I'll stop here in the hope that you will take from there and we could start a dialogue with the potential to learn a lot from each other.

Ben Masada
July 27th, 2015, 03:22 AM
Yeshua Says: I will not leave you as orphans, I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world sees me no more; but you see me: because I live, you shall live also. At that day you shall know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. He that has my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me: and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Yhudas says unto him, (not Sikariy) Master, how is it that you will manifest yourself unto us, and not unto the world? Yeshua answers and says to him, If a man loves me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loves me not keeps not my sayings: and the Memra-Logos which you hear is not of me, but contrariwise [it is] of the Sender of me, the Father, (John 14:18-24). :)

:sheep:

Again, Yeshua "says" and not said!. Why, didn't he die on the cross? And Yeshua said to his disciples that he would come to them in a "little while." Is that what you call more than 2,000 years ago and going? "Because he lives!" Does it mean he did not die? That's what Moslems say, that Yeshua was replaced at the nick of time just before his crucifixion? Is that what happened? It couldn't be bodily resurrection because the Prophets would not lie. "And we will come unto him!" We who if God is absolutely One? I didn't expect this to become hotter than the present tense about Jesus.

daqq
July 27th, 2015, 04:16 AM
Daqq, I have just read your post above and, as I can see, you have posted it as an allegory or parable which means the same. If I don't make a mistake, the point in the parable is a division in the sect. I know that in a parable, the symbols used don't mean any thing but are used only to come to the bottom line which is the division in the sect, whatever you mean by that. That's the meaning of a parable but, I am sure, you are calling our attention to much more that just that.

You start with Jesus as a priest of Elohim who in the course of the parable got somehow promoted to the position of High Priest. I hope that you are not implying that Jesus was from the Tribe of Levi because only Levites could be priests or High Priests. In fact, if we are to believe Mat. 1:18 Jesus was a Jew without a Tribe in Israel because by being him denied that Joseph was his biological father, he also missed to be from the Tribe of Judah.

Paul seemed to have found a solution for Jesus by claiming that he was son of God without a biological Jewish father. (Acts 9:20) You know, according to the Greek myth of the demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. There are many more points as hot as that about your "priest of Elohim" but, I'll stop here in the hope that you will take from there and we could start a dialogue with the potential to learn a lot from each other.

Moshe married into the Elohim MelkiTzedek priesthood by way of Tsipporah who is one of the seven little birdies and daughters of his Excellence, (Yithrow) Raguel the priest of Midian. This line is the MelkiTzedek priesthood through MelkiTzedek-Shem and the Elohim-MelkiTzedek priesthood is NOT BY BLOOD LINE. Moshe married into this priesthood and was therefore higher than Ahron his brother. If you desire to know the truth then start by finding any place where Ahron is called Kohen Gadol, (High Priest). You will find it NOWHERE in Torah or the remainder of the writings. Yet we see that in Psalm 99 Moshe says he is a priest. Do you know what the tradition says as to who wrote Psalm 99? Moshe wrote ten Psalms, which begin with Psalm 90, and all ten are currently placed back to back in modern Bibles. :)

Moshe says this concerning himself:

Psalm 99:6
6. Mosheh and Ahron among His priests, and shmu'el (heard of 'El) among those proclaiming His Name: they call unto YHWH, And He answers them.

And if Moshe was a priest then who is the greater between he and Ahron? Likewise the Priest stands between YHWH and the sons of Yisrael; and this is exactly what we read of Moshe in Devarim 5:5.

Deuteronomy 5:4-5
4. YHWH spoke with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire:
5. I stood between YHWH and you at that time, to show you the word of YHWH: for you were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount, saying:

It is the Kohen Gadol who stands in the gap between YHWH and the sons of Yisrael and this Moshe states that he did in the above passage. Likewise who anointed Ahron and his sons with all their garments? Who anointed the Mishkan with all of its furniture, vessels, and utensils? Was it Moshe or was it Ahron? Ahron and his sons could not be anointed until the altar of sacrifice was anointed which took seven days of cleansing before it could be anointed. Moshe already had the anointing upon him from above. Thus there are two priesthood lines from the beginning and the MelkTzedek priesthood precedes the Levitical even though later on the Kohen Gadol was chosen only from among the sons of Ahron. Yhoshua bin Nun is the next Kohen Gadol after Moshe because Moshe is commanded to set him BEFORE Eleazar and the people, put his hands upon him, and give him the charge, (Numbers 27:18-19). Also we read that YHWH Himself gives Yhoshua the charge, (Deuteronomy 31:14). And in Deuteronomy 34:9 we therefore read that Yhoshua the son of Perpetuity was full of the Spirit of WISDOM.

Once you begin to see this, if you will give it some time to sink in and do your own studies into it yourself, you may see that this is the very reason Yeshua became such a threat to the ruling class of the Tzaddukim under the house of Ananus, (Ananias-Annas 1). For they knew when Yeshua laid claim to the MelkiTzedek priesthood that he indeed had the right if so be that God ordain such a thing because that priesthood is not by blood line as Shem MelkiTzedek, Yithrow-Raguel, and Yhoshua bin Nun the son of Perpetuity clearly each reveal. Yeshua makes this direct claim but most today do not recognize this fact just as in those days the common people may not have understood all that was being said when what was said was said before an audience. However, rest assured that the Perushim, Tzaddikim, and Scribes new exactly what Yeshua was claiming in the following passage:

Matthew 22:41-46
41. While the Perushim were gathered together, Yeshua asked them,
42. Saying, What think you of Messiah? Whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43. He says to them, How then dos David in Spirit call him Adon, saying,
44. YHWH said unto Adoniy, [my Master] Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45. If David then call him Adon, how is he his son?
46. And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

They feared to ask any more questions from this point because they understood what the claim was even if the crowd did not: for every learned Rabbi quoting from the Scripture always points to the entire passage in its context by quoting whatever he quotes. So what is the context of this passage which they surely knew from memory?

Psalms 110
1. A Psalm of David: YHWH said unto Adoniy, [my Master] Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. YHWH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4. YHWH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melkitzedek.

Yeshua became a direct threat to the authority and power of the house of Annas but this struggle played out behind the scenes sort of speak. And I will add that after this happened the inner city rulers tried to hide the fact that there are two priesthoods in the Torah. This is also why carnal minds take the Epistle to the Hebrews and misinterpret the transformation of the Priesthood. The Levitical priesthood was never done away and continues to this day under the New Mediator of the Covenant who lives evermore to make intercession for the faithful. :)

CherubRam
July 27th, 2015, 06:19 AM
don't reply to any post
if
they can't use the name Jesus

Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until AFTER the year 1525...
when Sir William Tyndale - Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England - INVENTED IT!

The name Jesus was invented about 1525 AD, by Sir William Tyndale, a protestant reformer from Oxford, England.

Yahshua is the Messiah's actual birth name. Really.

CherubRam
July 27th, 2015, 06:25 AM
The name Jesus was invented about 1525 AD, by Sir William Tyndale, a protestant reformer from Oxford, England.
Before then the name Jesus did not exist. The Catholics are experts at deceit and misleading people away from God.

Pope Gregory and Paganism.

The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.
Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 12 March 604.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? Maybe the answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.

How do you feel about being called by a derogatory name? Jesus is a derogatory name. I would not lie or joke about such a thing.

CherubRam
July 27th, 2015, 06:36 AM
Yeshua says, used to say or said? I do not understand why he is still referred to in the present tense when he can no longer say any thing. I am aware that he died and that, by faith, Christians claim that he resurrected. However, two evidences contradict that Christian assertion: First, is the fact that he was a Jew and, according to his Faith which was Judaism, once dead no one can ever return. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21) And for the second evidence, there was no eyewitness for the Christian claim of resurrection. Mind you, I said "eyewitness" and not the simple claim of witnesses.

A "Centurion" is the Roman commander of a hundred men, and whom guarded the tomb of Christ. The disciple and other people were also witnesses to the event.

Psalm 16:8-11New International Version (NIV)

8 I keep my eyes always on the Lord.
With him at my right hand, I will not be shaken.

9 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest secure,

10 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
nor will you let your faithful[a] one see decay.

11 You make known to me the path of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence,
with eternal pleasures at your right hand.


Footnotes:
a.Psalm 16:10 Or holy

Ben Masada
July 27th, 2015, 07:40 AM
Moshe married into the Elohim MelkiTzedek priesthood by way of Tsipporah who is one of the seven little birdies and daughters of his Excellence, (Yithrow) Raguel the priest of Midian. This line is the MelkiTzedek priesthood through MelkiTzedek-Shem and the Elohim-MelkiTzedek priesthood is NOT BY BLOOD LINE. Moshe married into this priesthood and was therefore higher than Ahron his brother. If you desire to know the truth then start by finding any place where Ahron is called Kohen Gadol, (High Priest). You will find it NOWHERE in Torah or the remainder of the writings. Yet we see that in Psalm 99 Moshe says he is a priest. Do you know what the tradition says as to who wrote Psalm 99? Moshe wrote ten Psalms, which begin with Psalm 90, and all ten are currently placed back to back in modern Bibles. :)

Moshe says this concerning himself:

Psalm 99:6
6. Mosheh and Ahron among His priests, and shmu'el (heard of 'El) among those proclaiming His Name: they call unto YHWH, And He answers them.

And if Moshe was a priest then who is the greater between he and Ahron? Likewise the Priest stands between YHWH and the sons of Yisrael; and this is exactly what we read of Moshe in Devarim 5:5.

Deuteronomy 5:4-5
4. YHWH spoke with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire:
5. I stood between YHWH and you at that time, to show you the word of YHWH: for you were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount, saying:

It is the Kohen Gadol who stands in the gap between YHWH and the sons of Yisrael and this Moshe states that he did in the above passage. Likewise who anointed Ahron and his sons with all their garments? Who anointed the Mishkan with all of its furniture, vessels, and utensils? Was it Moshe or was it Ahron? Ahron and his sons could not be anointed until the altar of sacrifice was anointed which took seven days of cleansing before it could be anointed. Moshe already had the anointing upon him from above. Thus there are two priesthood lines from the beginning and the MelkTzedek priesthood precedes the Levitical even though later on the Kohen Gadol was chosen only from among the sons of Ahron. Yhoshua bin Nun is the next Kohen Gadol after Moshe because Moshe is commanded to set him BEFORE Eleazar and the people, put his hands upon him, and give him the charge, (Numbers 27:18-19). Also we read that YHWH Himself gives Yhoshua the charge, (Deuteronomy 31:14). And in Deuteronomy 34:9 we therefore read that Yhoshua the son of Perpetuity was full of the Spirit of WISDOM.

Once you begin to see this, if you will give it some time to sink in and do your own studies into it yourself, you may see that this is the very reason Yeshua became such a threat to the ruling class of the Tzaddukim under the house of Ananus, (Ananias-Annas 1). For they knew when Yeshua laid claim to the MelkiTzedek priesthood that he indeed had the right if so be that God ordain such a thing because that priesthood is not by blood line as Shem MelkiTzedek, Yithrow-Raguel, and Yhoshua bin Nun the son of Perpetuity clearly each reveal. Yeshua makes this direct claim but most today do not recognize this fact just as in those days the common people may not have understood all that was being said when what was said was said before an audience. However, rest assured that the Perushim, Tzaddikim, and Scribes new exactly what Yeshua was claiming in the following passage:

Matthew 22:41-46
41. While the Perushim were gathered together, Yeshua asked them,
42. Saying, What think you of Messiah? Whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
43. He says to them, How then dos David in Spirit call him Adon, saying,
44. YHWH said unto Adoniy, [my Master] Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45. If David then call him Adon, how is he his son?
46. And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

They feared to ask any more questions from this point because they understood what the claim was even if the crowd did not: for every learned Rabbi quoting from the Scripture always points to the entire passage in its context by quoting whatever he quotes. So what is the context of this passage which they surely knew from memory?

[COLOR=Navy]Psalms 110
1. A Psalm of David: YHWH said unto Adoniy, [my Master] Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. YHWH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
3. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4. YHWH hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melkitzedek.

Yeshua became a direct threat to the authority and power of the house of Annas but this struggle played out behind the scenes sort of speak. And I will add that after this happened the inner city rulers tried to hide the fact that there are two priesthoods in the Torah. This is also why carnal minds take the Epistle to the Hebrews and misinterpret the transformation of the Priesthood. The Levitical priesthood was never done away and continues to this day under the New Mediator of the Covenant who lives evermore to make intercession for the faithful.

A priest according to the order of Melchizedek was only an expression to distinguish from being a priest according to the order of Aaron which no one could but the Levites. It just happened that the Canaanite king/priest of Salem was called Melchizedek, a common personal name but it had nothing to do with the Hebrew term Melchizedek which means a prince of justice and peace.

Ben Masada
July 27th, 2015, 07:44 AM
Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until AFTER the year 1525...
when Sir William Tyndale - Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England - INVENTED IT!

The name Jesus was invented about 1525 AD, by Sir William Tyndale, a protestant reformer from Oxford, England.

Yahshua is the Messiah's actual birth name. Really.

Yes, Yeshua ben Yoseph to be precise. "Christ" which in Greek means the anointed one of the Lord was fabricated by Paul as he confessed it himself to his disciple Timothy. (II Tim. 2:8)

Ben Masada
July 27th, 2015, 07:56 AM
A "Centurion" is the Roman commander of a hundred men, and whom guarded the tomb of Christ. The disciple and other people were also witnesses to the event.

Psalm 16:8-11New International Version (NIV)

8 I keep my eyes always on the Lord.
With him at my right hand, I will not be shaken.

9 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest secure,

10 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
nor will you let your faithful[a] one see decay.

11 You make known to me the path of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence,
with eternal pleasures at your right hand.

Footnotes:
a.Psalm 16:10 Or holy

You do not focus when you read. I did not say witnesses but eyewitness. There were no eyewitnesses to the so-called resurrection of Jesus. Now, regarding to be abandoned to the realm of the dead and see decay is a reference to be abandoned in the battle field, be killed without protection and decay in the eyes of others without a king's proper burial. Nothing to do with not dying because king David himself said that once dead no one will ever return. (II Sam. 12:23)

CherubRam
July 27th, 2015, 11:01 AM
Yes, Yeshua ben Yoseph to be precise. "Christ" which in Greek means the anointed one of the Lord was fabricated by Paul as he confessed it himself to his disciple Timothy. (II Tim. 2:8)


You do not focus when you read. I did not say witnesses but eyewitness. There were no eyewitnesses to the so-called resurrection of Jesus. Now, regarding to be abandoned to the realm of the dead and see decay is a reference to be abandoned in the battle field, be killed without protection and decay in the eyes of others without a king's proper burial. Nothing to do with not dying because king David himself said that once dead no one will ever return. (II Sam. 12:23)

Ben, you are not reading things correctly. The word "gospel" means message, or good news. So Paul is saying according to his testimony; which also agrees with the other disciples. As for what David said, that is true, the dead do not come back to life on their own accord; however, it is possible for God to bring the dead back to life. You need to give more thought to what you believe. Does it align with scriptures?

CherubRam
July 27th, 2015, 11:04 AM
A priest according to the order of Melchizedek was only an expression to distinguish from being a priest according to the order of Aaron which no one could but the Levites. It just happened that the Canaanite king/priest of Salem was called Melchizedek, a common personal name but it had nothing to do with the Hebrew term Melchizedek which means a prince of justice and peace.

Ben! Where are you getting all these wrong Ideas? :doh:

daqq
July 27th, 2015, 08:47 PM
A priest according to the order of Melchizedek was only an expression to distinguish from being a priest according to the order of Aaron which no one could but the Levites. It just happened that the Canaanite king/priest of Salem was called Melchizedek, a common personal name but it had nothing to do with the Hebrew term Melchizedek which means a prince of justice and peace.


You do not focus when you read. I did not say witnesses but eyewitness. There were no eyewitnesses to the so-called resurrection of Jesus. Now, regarding to be abandoned to the realm of the dead and see decay is a reference to be abandoned in the battle field, be killed without protection and decay in the eyes of others without a king's proper burial. Nothing to do with not dying because king David himself said that once dead no one will ever return. (II Sam. 12:23)

I see you are reproved in your own thread concerning Melki-Tzedek, here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4398373&postcount=8), and that poster explains to you the same thing I already said to you, here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111766&page=4), so I see no need to continue on with you in the matter of Melki-Tzedek since you now have your own thread on the topic. However I will say that you appear to be under the assumption that all Judaism in the first century believed what you believe concerning resurrection. The truth is that only the Sadduks believed what you believe. Your opinion was not the majority and in fact was the least accepted among the three or four main sects. The Essenes and both houses of the Pharisees hotly disputed your understanding. In addition the Essene community was ruled by sons of Zadok, though considered renegades, and therefore were also Tzaddukim and blood line brothers of the "inner city" carnal minded priesthood. Your paradigm is thus reduced to about one eighth of the first century consensus. In short your opinion represents a mere eighth of the mindset of first century Judaism as a whole, (and more likely even less than that). And if there is no resurrection then you are essentially believing and teaching the faulty statement, "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die."

daqq
July 29th, 2015, 04:14 AM
Daqq, I have just read your post above and, as I can see, you have posted it as an allegory or parable which means the same. If I don't make a mistake, the point in the parable is a division in the sect. I know that in a parable, the symbols used don't mean any thing but are used only to come to the bottom line which is the division in the sect, whatever you mean by that. That's the meaning of a parable but, I am sure, you are calling our attention to much more that just that.

If you would like an example of the meaning of this parable there is now unfortunately a perfect example to be found in the following three consecutive posts, #3966 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4399920&postcount=3966), #3968 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4399945&postcount=3968), and #3971 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4399957&postcount=3971), from another thread today. The "division in the sect" is the essential argument over atonement theory or doctrine and whether "aphiemi" should be primarily understood as "to forgive" or whether it should be understood as "to send away in various forms" as it always did before the advent of westernized, Hellenistic minded, "English translation" post modern mainstream Christianity. The primary meaning of "aphiemi" was never "to forgive" which, in modern times, now immediately implies "a pardon" in the western mind whether anyone wishes to admit it or not, (making the problem even worse). The way aphiemi is now rendered in all modern English translations, (many times, although not always, where it is rendered "to forgive", "forgiven", and "forgiveness", and especially in the Gospel accounts) it is nothing more than an intellectually dishonest and theologically biased reinterpretation of the word designed to grant a perceived "pardon" for sins to anyone who joins "the church", (insert your favorite denomination here) while continuing to sin thinking that grace abounds all the more because of the continual habitual sinning that has all been already "pardoned". The modern rendering essentially removes the need for any "works" from the good news Gospel record and Testimony of Yeshua. The Kohen Gadol indeed "bears up the sins of the people", (HSN#5375 nasa', for example as employed in Isaiah 53:12) but this is only a temporary lifting up-off and bearing of sins in that the Kohen Gadol lifts up the sins of the people, from off of them, but only so as to place the sins of the people upon the head of the live goat which is then to be sent away, (aphiemi) into the desert-wilderness to/for Azazel. According to the Torah the Kohen Gadol most definitely "sends away" the sins of the people but, that is to say, he sends them away upon the head of the twin goat which is to be provided by the congregation. :)

:sheep:

daqq
December 18th, 2015, 03:36 AM
Yeshua Says: An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Yonah: for as Yonah was three days and three nights in the koilia of the great fish, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the Land, (Mattityahu 12:39-40).

Three Days:

Yonah 1:1-5 ~ It came to pass, the Word of YHWH unto Yonah the son of Amittai, saying, Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me. But Yonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of YHWH, and went down to the Beautiful, (the Sea of Kinneret-Yapho) and he found a vessel going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of YHWH. But YHWH sent out a great wind into the sea, and there was a mighty tempest in the sea, so that the vessel was like to be broken. Then the mariners were afraid, and cried every man unto his god, and cast forth the wares that were in the vessel into the sea, to lighten it of them. But Yonah was gone down into the quarters of the vessel; and was lain down, and was radam, (deep sleep or stupefied).

First Day - Gergesenos (near Antioch Hippos)

Mattityahu 8:23-28 ~ And he entered into a vessel, his talmidim following with him, and behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the vessel was flooded with the waves: but he was lain down. And his talmidim came to him, and roused him, saying, Master, save us: we perish! And he says to them, Why are you fearful, O you of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm. But the men wondered, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him! And having come to the Peran, into the country of the Gergesenos, there met him two daemoniacs coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that none might have the strength to pass through that way.

Second Day - Gadarenos (near Hamat Gader and Gadara)

Markos 4:36-5:1 ~ And leaving the multitude, they take him with them, even as he was, in the vessel. And other vessels were with him. And there arose a great storm of wind, and the waves beat into the vessel, so that it was now filling. And he was in the stern-quarters of the vessel, lain down upon a headrest: and they rouse him, and say unto him, Teacher, do you not care that we perish!? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. And he said unto them, Why are you so fearful? how is it that you have no faith? And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him? And they came to the Peran of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenos.

Third Day - Gerasenos (near the lake of the abyss at Gerasa)

Lukas 8:22-26 ~ Moreover it came to be in one of the days: and he entered into a vessel with his talmidim, and he said unto them, Let us pass through the Peran, to the lake. And they set sail. But sailing he was away-hypnos: and there came down a storm of wind on the lake; and they were filled with water, and were in jeopardy. And they came to him, and roused him, saying, Epistata, Commander, we perish! Then he arose, and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water: and they ceased, and there was a calm. And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And fearing they wondered, saying one to another, What manner of man is this? for he commands even the winds and water, and they obey him. And they sailed down to the country of the Gerasenos, (which is Anti-Peran of the Galil).

Three Days in the heart of the Land . . . :)

daqq
December 18th, 2015, 05:23 AM
First Night - To Capernaum

Yohannes 6:16-25 ~ And when even was now come, his talmidim went down unto the sea, and entered into a ship, and went over the sea toward Capernaum. And it was now dark, and Yeshua was not come to them. And the sea arose by reason of a great wind that blew. So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty stadia, they see Yeshua walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid. But he says unto them, It is I, be not afraid. Then they willingly received him into the vessel: and immediately the vessel was at the Land to where they went. The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other vessel there, save that one whereinto his talmidim were entered, and that Yeshua went not with his talmidim into the boat, but that his talmidim were gone away alone, (howbeit there came other boats from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they did eat bread, after the Master had given thanks) when the people therefore saw that Yeshua was not there, neither his talmidim, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Yeshua. And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, how did you come here?

Second Night - To Gennesaret (Mattityahu and Markos)

Mattityahu 14:22-34 ~ And straightway Yeshua constrained his talmidim to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone. But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. And in the fourth watch of the night Yeshua went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the talmidim saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit!, and they cried out for fear. But straightway Yeshua spoke unto them, saying, Be of good cheer, it is I, be not afraid. And Petros answered him, and said, Master, if it be you, bid me come unto you on the water. And he said, Come! And when Petros was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Yeshua. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was fearful: and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Master, save me! And immediately Yeshua stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, You of little faith, why did you stand duplicate? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. Then they that were in the ship came and bowed to him, saying, Of a truth a Son of God you are! And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret.

Markos 6:45-53 ~ And straightway he constrained his talmidim to get into the ship, and to go to the other side before unto Bethsaida, while he sent away the people. And when he had sent them away, he departed into a mountain to pray. And when even was come, the ship was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land. And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he came unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them. But when they saw him walking upon the sea, they supposed it had been a spirit, and cried out: for they all saw him, and were troubled. And immediately he talked with them, and said unto them, Be of good cheer, it is I, be not afraid. And he went up unto them into the ship, and the wind ceased, and they were sore amazed in themselves beyond measure, and wondered. For they considered not the miracle of the loaves: for their heart was hardened. And crossing over upon the Land, they came to Gennesaret, and moored.

Third Night - To Paran (the other side)

Cast not away your confidence, which has great recompence of reward, for you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of Elohim, you might receive the Promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: "But if any man draw back: My soul shall have no pleasure in him." However we are not of them who draw back, unto perdition, but of them that believe unto the saving of the soul. For, behold, a sign in the heavens, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last strokes: for in them is filled up the thumos-passion-fury of Elohim. And as it were a sea of transparency, like glass, having been mingled with fire: and those victorious over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, standing on the sea of transparency having harps of Elohim. And they sing the song of Moshe the servant of Elohim, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are your works, YHWH Elohim Almighty: just and true are your ways, the King of nations! Who shall not fear you, O YHWH, and glorify your name? For you only are holy: for all nations shall come and bow before you, for your judgments are made manifest. And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened: and the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven strokes, arrayed with precious stone, pure and bright, and girt about their breasts with golden belts. And one of the four living creatures gave unto the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the thumos-passion-fury of Elohim, who lives for ever and ever. And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of Elohim, and from his power: and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven strokes of the seven angels were fulfilled. In the fourth watch of the night, at the Anatole sunrising, as a light that shines in a darkened place: the day will dawn, and the Daystar arise in the heart of the Land of the man; each in his or her own appointed times. :)

:sheep:

RBBI
December 18th, 2015, 02:35 PM
Astounding posts daqq...a sign that the famine of the Word is here for sure now, that few will be able to hear any of it. Sigh....

May you be forever blessed and increased.....Peace

daqq
December 18th, 2015, 10:38 PM
Astounding posts daqq...a sign that the famine of the Word is here for sure now, that few will be able to hear any of it. Sigh....

May you be forever blessed and increased.....Peace

Hello RBBI, thank you, and please feel free to contribute. :)

Yeshua Says: The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual evidence of observation: neither shall they say, Behold, here it is! or, Look, there it is! For, behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within yourselves! (And he said to the talmidim) The days will come when you shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and you shall not see it, and they shall say to you, See here!, or, See there! Go not after them, neither follow them: for exactly as the ray of light that shines forth from under one end of the heavens, lighting up the other end under the heavens, (Anatole rising light, first beam of light from the rising sun) so shall also the Son of man be in his day. No doubt, for the patient and the faithful in Messiah, the famine will be over in that day.

Shabbat Shalom :)

daqq
December 19th, 2015, 02:15 AM
Yeshua Says: I beheld the Satan as lightning fall from the heavens. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in the heavens. In that hour Yeshua rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank you, O Father, Master of the heavens and of the earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and prudent, and have revealed them unto babes: even so, Father, for so it seemed good in your sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no one knows who the Son is, if not the Father; and who the Father is, if not the Son, and to whomever the Son wills to reveal him, (Luke 10:18-22). And from the companion passage Yeshua then says: Come unto me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find shabbat-rest unto your souls (anapausis-intermission). For my yoke is chrestos, and my burden is light, (Matthew 11:28-30). At that same appointed time, (Matthew 12:1-5) Yeshua went in the sabbasin through the grainfields; and his talmidim were hungering, and began to pluck heads of grain, and to eat. But when the Perushim saw it, they said unto him, Behold, your talmidim do that which is not lawful to do in shabbat! But he said unto them, Have you not read what David did, when he was hungering, and they that were with him: how he entered into the house of Elohim, and did eat the Bread of the Presence, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have you not read in the Torah, how that in the sabbasin the priests in the temple profane the Shabbat, and are blameless? (Lev 24:1-8, Num 28:1-10).

So the supernal understanding of the three days and three nights at Golgotha begins herein:

Leviticus 24:5-8
5. And you shall take fine flour, and bake twelve cakes thereof: two tenth parts shall be in one cake.
6. And you shall set them in two rows, six on a row, upon the pure table before YHWH.
7. And you shall put pure frankincense with each row, that it may go with the lechem-bread as a memorial, an offering made by fire unto YHWH.
8. (Byowm hashabat byowm hashabat) In a yom-day of the Shabbat, the Shabbat in a yom-day, he shall set it in order before YHWH tamiyd-continually, being taken from the sons of Yisrael, an everlasting covenant.


Numbers 28:1-10
1. And YHWH spoke unto Moshe, saying:
2. Command the sons of Yisrael, and say unto them, My korban, My lechem-bread offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto Me, you shall take heed to offer unto Me in its appointed time.
3. And you shall say unto them, This is the offering made by fire which you shall offer unto YHWH: he-lambs, sons of a year, tamiymim-perfect-complete, two for a yom-day, a tamiyd-continual ascending offering.
4. The one lamb shall you offer in the morning, and the other lamb shall you offer between the evenings:
5. And the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a minchah-oblation, mingled with the fourth part of a hin of beaten oil-olive.
6. It is a continual ascending offering, which was ordained in mount Sinai for a sweet savor, an offering made by fire unto YHWH.
7. And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of a hin for the one lamb: in the holy place you shall cause to be poured out a drink offering of strong drink unto YHWH.
8. And the other lamb shall you offer between the evenings, as the minchah-oblation of the morning and its drink offering shall you offer it, an offering made by fire, of a sweet savor unto YHWH.
9. And in the yom-day of the Shabbat: two he-lambs, sons of a year, tamiymim-perfect-complete, and two tenth parts of an ephah of fine flour, a minchah-oblation, mingled with oil-olive, and the drink offering thereof:
10. This is the ascending offering of a Shabbat in its Shabbat over-above the tamiyd-continual and its drink offering.

Is it possible that we read "the Shabbat in a yom-day" in Leviticus 24:8?
And, more importantly, what therefore is "a Shabbat in its Shabbat", (Num 28:10)? :)

:sheep:

Ben Masada
December 19th, 2015, 02:22 PM
Ben, you are not reading things correctly. The word "gospel" means message, or good news. So Paul is saying according to his testimony; which also agrees with the other disciples. As for what David said, that is true, the dead do not come back to life on their own accord; however, it is possible for God to bring the dead back to life. You need to give more thought to what you believe. Does it align with scriptures?

"On their own accord" is an addition from your own mind even knowing that we are not to add to the Word which the Lord commanded us neither diminish any thing from it. (Deut. 4:2) So, let the Word of God stand the way King David understood in II Sam. 12:23.

Every thing is possible to God but one, to do what you wish He did or should have done. That's not how the Lord works.

Ben Masada
December 19th, 2015, 02:28 PM
Ben! Where are you getting all these wrong Ideas? :doh:

From a University course on Judaica in the University of Judaism and my logical understanding of the Truth. It does not make sense at all to use a pagan priest of the Canaanites to symbolize anything among the People of the Most High.

Ben Masada
December 19th, 2015, 02:40 PM
I see you are reproved in your own thread concerning Melki-Tzedek, here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4398373&postcount=8), and that poster explains to you the same thing I already said to you, here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111766&page=4), so I see no need to continue on with you in the matter of Melki-Tzedek since you now have your own thread on the topic. However I will say that you appear to be under the assumption that all Judaism in the first century believed what you believe concerning resurrection. The truth is that only the Sadduks believed what you believe. Your opinion was not the majority and in fact was the least accepted among the three or four main sects. The Essenes and both houses of the Pharisees hotly disputed your understanding. In addition the Essene community was ruled by sons of Zadok, though considered renegades, and therefore were also Tzaddukim and blood line brothers of the "inner city" carnal minded priesthood. Your paradigm is thus reduced to about one eighth of the first century consensus. In short your opinion represents a mere eighth of the mindset of first century Judaism as a whole, (and more likely even less than that). And if there is no resurrection then you are essentially believing and teaching the faulty statement, "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die."

The Essene branch of Judaism was much more fundamentalist than what you think I am. They considered the relation between Jews and Gentiles as the endless struggle between the children of light aka the Jews versus the children of darkness aka the Gentiles. How could they ever adopt the idea that Abraham, King David and all the righteous among us be something after the order of a pagan priest of the Canaanites? It is only obvious to adopt the Jewish expression, "After the Order of Melchizedek.

Ben Masada
December 19th, 2015, 02:50 PM
If you would like an example of the meaning of this parable there is now unfortunately a perfect example to be found in the following three consecutive posts, #3966 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4399920&postcount=3966), #3968 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4399945&postcount=3968), and #3971 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4399957&postcount=3971), from another thread today. The "division in the sect" is the essential argument over atonement theory or doctrine and whether "aphiemi" should be primarily understood as "to forgive" or whether it should be understood as "to send away in various forms" as it always did before the advent of westernized, Hellenistic minded, "English translation" post modern mainstream Christianity. The primary meaning of "aphiemi" was never "to forgive" which, in modern times, now immediately implies "a pardon" in the western mind whether anyone wishes to admit it or not, (making the problem even worse). The way aphiemi is now rendered in all modern English translations, (many times, although not always, where it is rendered "to forgive", "forgiven", and "forgiveness", and especially in the Gospel accounts) it is nothing more than an intellectually dishonest and theologically biased reinterpretation of the word designed to grant a perceived "pardon" for sins to anyone who joins "the church", (insert your favorite denomination here) while continuing to sin thinking that grace abounds all the more because of the continual habitual sinning that has all been already "pardoned". The modern rendering essentially removes the need for any "works" from the good news Gospel record and Testimony of Yeshua. The Kohen Gadol indeed "bears up the sins of the people", (HSN#5375 nasa', for example as employed in Isaiah 53:12) but this is only a temporary lifting up-off and bearing of sins in that the Kohen Gadol lifts up the sins of the people, from off of them, but only so as to place the sins of the people upon the head of the live goat which is then to be sent away, (aphiemi) into the desert-wilderness to/for Azazel. According to the Torah the Kohen Gadol most definitely "sends away" the sins of the people but, that is to say, he sends them away upon the head of the twin goat which is to be provided by the congregation. :)

:sheep:

Atonement is not forgiveness or to forgive, but to be sacrificed for the redemption of another. That's exactly what happened when Israel as a People was sacrificed for Judah as a People. The evidence is documented in Psalm 78:67-70 when the Lord rejected Israel the Ten Tribes and allowed it to be taken away by the Assyrians so that Judah be confirmed as a People before the Lord forever in Jerusalem. (Jer. 31:35-37)

daqq
December 19th, 2015, 03:08 PM
Atonement is not forgiveness or to forgive, but to be sacrificed for the redemption of another. That's exactly what happened when Israel as a People was sacrificed for Judah as a People. The evidence is documented in Psalm 78:67-70 when the Lord rejected Israel the Ten Tribes and allowed it to be taken away by the Assyrians so that Judah be confirmed as a People before the Lord forever in Jerusalem. (Jer. 31:35-37)


Already having moved on:


http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/pic/greek27.gif


If you do not sabbatize the week you will not see the Father.
Shabbat Shalom, (a Shabbat in its Shabbat this hour). :)

daqq
December 19th, 2015, 11:48 PM
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/pic/greek27.gif


If you do not sabbatize the week you will not see the Father.
Shabbat Shalom, (a Shabbat in its Shabbat this hour). :)


Yeshua Says: If you do not fast from the world, absolutely not will you find the kingdom of Elohim: and if you do not shabbatize [every day of] the week, you will not see the Father.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/gospelthomas27.html (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/thomas/gospelthomas27.html)

daqq
December 20th, 2015, 01:30 AM
Yeshua Says: If you do not fast from the world, absolutely not will you find the kingdom of Elohim: and if you do not shabbatize [every day of] the week, you will not see the Father.

Seventh Hour Shabbat

Yeshua left Yhudah, and again departed into the Galil, and it was necessary that he pass through Samaria. He came therefore to a city of Samaria being called, (Hebraisti) Shachar-Dawn, near to the parcel of ground that Yakob gave to his son Yoseph: and the well of Yakob was there. Yeshua therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus by the well. The hour was roundabout the [close of the] sixth. There came a woman of Samaria to draw water: Yeshua says to her, Give me to drink, for his talmidim were gone away into the city to buy rations. The Samaritan woman therefore says to him, How is it that you, being of the Yhudim, ask drink of me who am a Samaritan woman? (for the Yhudim have no dealings with Samaritans). Yeshua answers, and says to her, If you knew the offering of Elohim, and who he is that says to you, Give me to drink, you would have asked of him, and he would have given you Living Water. The woman says unto him, Adon, you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep: from where then have you that living water? Are you greater than our father Yakob, who gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his sons, and his cattle? Yeshua answers, and says to her, Every one that drinks of this water shall thirst again: but whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto life eternal. The woman says to him, Adoni, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come all the way hither to draw. He says to her, Go, call your man, and come back here. The woman answers, and says to him, I have no husband. Yeshua says to her, You have well said, I have no husband, for you have had five husbands: and he whom you now have is not your husband: this you have said truly. The woman says to him, Adoni, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain, and you say, that in Yerushalaim is the place where men ought to worship. Yeshua says to her, Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Yerushalaim shall you worship the Father. You worship that which you know not: we worship that which we know, for salvation-deliverance is from the Yhudim. But the hour comes, and now it is, (for the seventh hour had come) when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such to worship Him: Elohim is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth, (John 4:3-24).

:sheep:

1Mind1Spirit
December 20th, 2015, 11:15 AM
Seventh Hour Shabbat

Yeshua left Yhudah, and again departed into the Galil, and it was necessary that he pass through Samaria. He came therefore to a city of Samaria being called, (Hebraisti) Shachar-Dawn, near to the parcel of ground that Yakob gave to his son Yoseph: and the well of Yakob was there. Yeshua therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus by the well. The hour was roundabout the [close of the] sixth. There came a woman of Samaria to draw water: Yeshua says to her, Give me to drink, for his talmidim were gone away into the city to buy rations. The Samaritan woman therefore says to him, How is it that you, being of the Yhudim, ask drink of me who am a Samaritan woman? (for the Yhudim have no dealings with Samaritans). Yeshua answers, and says to her, If you knew the offering of Elohim, and who he is that says to you, Give me to drink, you would have asked of him, and he would have given you Living Water. The woman says unto him, Adon, you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep: from where then have you that living water? Are you greater than our father Yakob, who gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his sons, and his cattle? Yeshua answers, and says to her, Every one that drinks of this water shall thirst again: but whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto life eternal. The woman says to him, Adoni, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come all the way hither to draw. He says to her, Go, call your man, and come back here. The woman answers, and says to him, I have no husband. Yeshua says to her, You have well said, I have no husband, for you have had five husbands: and he whom you now have is not your husband: this you have said truly. The woman says to him, Adoni, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain, and you say, that in Yerushalaim is the place where men ought to worship. Yeshua says to her, Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Yerushalaim shall you worship the Father. You worship that which you know not: we worship that which we know, for salvation-deliverance is from the Yhudim. But the hour comes, and now it is, (for the seventh hour had come) when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such to worship Him: Elohim is Spirit, and they that worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth, (John 4:3-24).

:sheep:

Yes, and the beauty of what came after.

Now we have heard from Him ourselves and do believe.:)

daqq
December 20th, 2015, 02:26 PM
Yes, and the beauty of what came after.

Now we have heard from Him ourselves and do believe.:)

Yes, there are so many things in a single passage it would nearly be impossible to discuss them all at once. No doubt one could have seven or more threads going at one time discussing seven different topics all derived from the Parable of the Sower. :)

The latter portion of the John 4:3-24 passage solidifies the idea that the author speaks of the seventh hour Shabbat. It seems as if it is because the seventh hour was not actually mentioned, (only the sixth hour, John 4:6) that the author inserts the short story of the nobleman's son who was healed in the seventh hour, at the close of the passage, and this is the only place the short account is recorded:

John 4:43-54 KJV
43. Now after two days he departed thence, and went into Galilee.
44. For Jesus himself testified, that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.
45. Then when he was come into Galilee, the Galilaeans received him, having seen all the things that he did at Jerusalem at the feast: for they also went unto the feast.
46. So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum.
47. When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death.
48. Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
49. The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die.
50. Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
51. And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.
52. Then inquired he of them the hour when he began to amend. And they said unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.
53. So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
54. This is again the second miracle that Jesus did, when he was come out of Judaea into Galilee.

If one realizes from the Genesis 1 creation account and Numbers 7:10-84, (the twelve yamim-hours in the yom-day wherein the altar was anointed) that a yom-day may also be accounted as a yom-hour then this section becomes absolutely critical to the chronology that is laid out in the Gospel of John; for one then must come to understand whether Yeshua spent two full literal days or rather merely two hours at the city of Samaria. It was therefore two full days because two hours later from the sixth hour at the opening of the passage could not have been the seventh hour of the same day when the nobleman's son was healed, (and again, this is critical if one is following the chronology from the first Passover recorded in John 2:13-25). In addition the above shows Yeshua once again healing in Shabbat but this time it is one of the seventh hour sabbasin, (the same is the "sabbato deuteroprotos" of Luke 6:1 which likely refers to Lev 24:8 and Num 28:10). :)

The Gospel Matrix
December 20th, 2015, 03:17 PM
Yes, unfortunately most all of us including myself must be nearly ground to powder before we will begin listen and learn, (the powerful pride of the holy people must be completely shattered). :)

Yeshua Says: Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knows no man, no, not the messengers which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take heed to yourself, watch and pray: for you know not when the time is. For the Son of man is like a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch you therefore: for you know not when the Master of the house comes, at evening, or at midnight, or at the rooster crowing, or in the morning: lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you, I say unto all, WATCH! (Mark 13:30-37).

And the talmid is not only the house but he is likewise designated the porter, (with keys to the doors of the house) and is left in charge of the house while the House Master is likened as if away in a far journey. And the porter of the house is commanded to watch.

Yeshua Says: Watch therefore; for you know not what hour your Master will come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be you also ready: for in such an hour as you think not the Son of man comes. Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his Master hath made ruler over his household, to give them their meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his Master when he comes shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if the evil servant says in his heart, My Master delays his arrival; and shall begin to smite his fellow house-servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards; then the Master of that servant shall come in a day when he looks not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, (Matthew 24:42-51).

Who then are the "fellow-servants" of the household of every man?
Soul for soul, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot!

Yeshua Says: Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences do come; but woe to the anthropon-man-faced by whom that offence comes! Wherefore if your hand or your foot offend you, cut them off, and cast them from you: it is better for you to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into the aionion fire! And if your eye offend you, pluck him out, and cast him from you: it is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into the fire of Gehenna. Take heed that you despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, that in heaven their messengers do always behold the face of my Father which is in the heavens: for the Son of man is come to save that which was lost, (Matthew 18:7-10).

Are any of the little ones lost before the times appointed? Perhaps these little ones are the fellow-servants of the household of every man: the eyes, the ears, the mouth, (with its little member the tongue which sets ablaze the fire of Gehenna) the hands, the feet; all of which belong to the Father in heaven. Five to the right and five to the left; three against two and two against three at war in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank my heavenly Father, for it is by the Testimony given through Messiah Yeshua the Master-Teacher. So then with the mind I myself serve Torah of Elohim; but with the flesh the Torah of an eye for an eye against my unseen enemies. Three evil shepherds I cut off in one year; a foot master, a right hand master, and the ever wandering evil right eye master always looking toward the profane; and my soul despised them, and their souls abhorred me. Then I said to them, I will not feed you: that which is dying let die; and that which is to be cut off, let it be cut off! and that which remains let her eat the flesh of her companion. So I disannulled the covenant I had with them in my members and cut them off as the Master says to do. As it is written in the Prophet: Take to yourself yet the vessel of a foolish shepherd: for behold, I raise up a shepherd in the land who shall not visit that which is perishing, or seek that which is scattered, neither heal that which is bruised, nor guide that which is whole: but he shall devour the flesh of the fat ones and will shatter their hoofs to pieces. Woe to the idol shepherd who leaves the flock! A sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened! The lamp which lights the inside of the body of the man is the eye: if therefore your eye be singular-focused, your whole body shall be full of light. But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!

He that has two ears, let him buy a sword:
He that has an ear to hear, let him hear. Chop! Chop! :)

:sheep:

I appreciate this post; at least what I think I understand of it.

What many have not yet come to face is that Christianity, with its 20,000 (or more) worldwide denominations, has utterly failed to fulfill the prayer of Yeshua as recorded in John 17:

11 I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are.

22 The glory which you have given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, even as we are one; 23 I in them, and you in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that you sent me

After 2,000 years, why has the world still not come to belief? It is because the cognitive dissonance and ego-pride of those within the Body of Christ have caused them to fail to see that the massive division and in-fighting that has taken place in the Christian Church has butchered the true image of the Son of God, and made Him unrecognizable and appalling to the world.

Isaiah 52
14 Just as many were astonished at you (his appearance was marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men)

After 2,000 years, as we enter the 3rd day, there must be a mass-awakening (resurrection) to this undeniable Truth in order to avoid a dreadful consequence for the unbelieving world, whose blood will be upon the heads of those (Christianity) who have failed to unite unto Truth in order to bring the world to belief.

This is not trolling, nor is it "crazy talk." This is Truth that must be accepted by the masses of Christianity at this time. Christianity is the house divided that will soon fall, and the call is now being given to completely separate from the corporate mindset of the Christian institution which has mutilated the image of the Son of God before the world, causing Him to be rejected.

"Babylon" of course means "confusion." Or in other words, division and disassociation; unproductive disagreement.

Revelation 18
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her [Babylon Christianity], my people [those who claim to follow Christ], that you have no participation in her sins, and that you dont receive of her plagues, 5 for her sins have reached to the sky [2,000 years of scandals, atrocity, and division that butchers Christ's true image], and God has remembered her iniquities."

Shall we fall on the stone and awaken now, or shall we be crushed by the stone by remaining self-complacent and stiff-necked to the true condition of the Body of Christ? :confused:

We await to see what lies ahead in the waning days before us.

daqq
December 20th, 2015, 05:23 PM
After 2,000 years, why has the world still not come to belief? It is because the cognitive dissonance and ego-pride of those within the Body of Christ have caused them to fail to see that the massive division and in-fighting that has taken place in the Christian Church has butchered the true image of the Son of God, and made Him unrecognizable and appalling to the world.

Isaiah 52
14 Just as many were astonished at you (his appearance was marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men)

Hi TGM, well, I certainly cannot disagree with most of what you have presented. I only quote the small portion because my post is long. However those things which you quoted from my post I understand as supernal and internal. Every person is a treasure in an earthen vessel and the earthen vessel is clearly the body-temple in typology and allegory. It is not only about cutting off sin from our own hearts, minds, and bodies, but just as much about cutting off error and false doctrines from our own understanding. Incorrect doctrines are nearly impossible to discover within ourselves if one is not constantly in the word and the Testimony of Yeshua, and in prayer as we read and study, which is why false doctrines are likened to tares which the enemy has sown in our fields, (every devil has its doctrine).

But aside from those things you have also struck a chord in quoting Isaiah 52:14. Are you aware of what the image concerns in my avatar? It is the foundation Stone of the Temple which is now the centerpiece around which the Dome of the Rock was built. This Corner Stone is the Lion of Yhudah and as you can see the foundation for the southwest corner of the Temple, (the area upon which the Holy Holies was built) was carved into the face of the Corner Stone for the southwestern corner of the wall of the Temple at Yerushalaim, (I know there is eternal debate on the location so no need to debate it here; it is simply what I have come to understand in that area of study).

https://ed18c523-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/elaiasindex/1-ariyel-yhudah.gif

Likewise note that the eye of the Lion of Yhudah and Corner Stone in my avatar is singular: the eye was very likely the original location of the fountain of the Giychon spring, (an eye is also a fountain) which was probably rerouted in the days of king Hezekiah. In 2 Chr 32:30 we read that king Hezekiah stopped the upper watercourse of Giychon and brought it straight down to the west side of the city of David, (which is on the southern lowermost hill of Moriah to extreme the south of the Old City). If this be true then when Hezekiah changed the uppermost watercourse the well below the foundation Stone of the Temple dried up. This well is now called the well of souls and to this day the Muslims still hang a lamp down into the well of souls from the eye which you see in my avatar. I hope you see the symbolism in all of this because, no doubt, these things have bearing on some of the statements made by Yeshua in the Gospel accounts. The lamp-light of the inside of the body of the man is the eye, if therefore your eye be single, your whole body shall be full of light, (Matthew 6:22). It is a body-temple allegory in the first degree concerning the eye or fountain of Giychon, even though it had long been dried up and its watercourse changed, for the location of the eye would still have been seen just outside the southern wall of the Temple itself, (probably surrounded with a small foot wall for observation and protection).

http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/247/cache/temples-tombs-dome-rock_24737_600x450.jpg
http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/well-of-souls/ (http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/well-of-souls/)

The reason I mention all of this in connection with Isaiah 52:14 is because it was king Hezekiah who smashed the image of the brazen Seraph which Moshe lifted up in the wilderness, which came to be known as Nchushtan, because the people were burning incense, (prayer) to it:

2 Kings 18:3-6 KJV (Concerning Hezekiah - 2 Kings 18:1)
3. And he did that which was right in the sight of the Lord, according to all that David his father did.
4. He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces [smashed] the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.
5. He trusted in the Lord God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him.
6. For he clave to the Lord, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the Lord commanded Moses.

Who do you suppose it was that advised king Hezekiah to smash the face of the brazen Seraph beyond recognition? And how do you suppose the Prophet Isaiah knew that the visage of Messiah would be marred to the point of being unrecognizable? Was it not Isaiah who prophesied in the days of Hezekiah? Yes, and even the events surrounding the sundial of Ahaz in the days of Hezekiah are written in Isaiah. Why then does Yeshua compare the Son of man to the brazen Seraph in the wilderness?

John 3:14 KJV
14. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

John 12:34-41 KJV
34. The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
35. Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
36. While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
37. But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
38. That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39. Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40. He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
41. These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

And what is the passage quoted so often where Isaiah saw his glory? (Isaiah 6:9-10).

Isaiah 6:1-2
1. In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also Adonay sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2. Seraphim stood from above for him: six wings to the one; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

The same word for Seraphim, (Saraph-Seraph) is used twice in the brazen serpent passage:

Numbers 21:6-9 KJV
6. And the Lord sent fiery serpents [ha-nchashiym ha-Sraphiym] among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
7. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee; pray unto the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
8. And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, [Seraph] and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9. And Moses made a serpent of brass, [nchash nchoshet] and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent [nchash] had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, [nchash nchoshet] he lived.

We thus have not just one but two ways in which HaNavi Yeshayahu could have known that Messiah would be beaten and his face marred beyond recognition. They are the Corner Stone of the Temple, with the face of the Lion of Yhudah, whose eye is single and lights the well of souls inside what was originally the fountain-eye of Giychon, which cavity in the natural rock formation below is directly beneath the Temple Mount in the area where the Holy Holies would have stood. And the other way in which HaNavi Yeshayahu knew was by the face of the image of the brazen Seraph which Yeshayahu himself told king Hezekiah to smash beyond recognition, knowing that this was the symbol of the healing of the sons of Yisrael in the desert, in the Numbers passage quoted above. :)

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 12:24 AM
There is a serious problem with these postings. But the part about the train is interesting. You guys have a thing about trains. Do you hear the whistle blowing? It is right around the bend. The tracks are shaking. Box cars. Lots and lots of box cars. They don't have any windows. No sunshine in the box cars.

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 12:47 AM
It is the music. Very soothing. They become sleepy. Can't focus on the surroundings. It gets softer. The lights go dim. And the door closes.

It's the music. They don't seem to care as long as they have their music. It had to be just right. Then the eye lids get heavy.

The conductor doesn't hear the music. He looks at the sign. The big green $ sign. It sings a different tune. But the train only goes one way.

What happens when the tracks run out and the music stops and the money fails?

Everyone gets a new name. And they restart the game.

1Mind1Spirit
December 21st, 2015, 12:58 AM
There is a serious problem with these postings. But the part about the train is interesting. You guys have a thing about trains. Do you hear the whistle blowing? It is right around the bend. The tracks are shaking. Box cars. Lots and lots of box cars. They don't have any windows. No sunshine in the box cars.



Matthew 10:28 KJV


28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

:)

1Mind1Spirit
December 21st, 2015, 01:15 AM
It is the music. Very soothing. They become sleepy. Can't focus on the surroundings. It gets softer. The lights go dim. And the door closes.

It's the music. They don't seem to care as long as they have their music. It had to be just right. Then the eye lids get heavy.

The conductor doesn't hear the music. He looks at the sign. The big green $ sign. It sings a different tune. But the train only goes one way.

What happens when the tracks run out and the music stops and the money fails?

Everyone gets a new name. And they restart the game.

Ahhh but, Rock and Roll never dies.:think:

daqq
December 21st, 2015, 03:08 AM
There is a serious problem with these postings. But the part about the train is interesting. You guys have a thing about trains. Do you hear the whistle blowing? It is right around the bend. The tracks are shaking. Box cars. Lots and lots of box cars. They don't have any windows. No sunshine in the box cars.


It is the music. Very soothing. They become sleepy. Can't focus on the surroundings. It gets softer. The lights go dim. And the door closes.

It's the music. They don't seem to care as long as they have their music. It had to be just right. Then the eye lids get heavy.

The conductor doesn't hear the music. He looks at the sign. The big green $ sign. It sings a different tune. But the train only goes one way.

What happens when the tracks run out and the music stops and the money fails?

Everyone gets a new name. And they restart the game.

Was it not you who was just auctioning off Jews and Atheists for $4.50 in one of your siamese twins threads? Truth be known if they understood your racist and perverted parables they would probably delete you for a while because they would understand that you have ultimately cut off half of the scripture and it is that half which is the only real portion of the scripture that has ever been called scripture by the scripture itself. What sort of person interprets "Esau have I hated" to mean that God hates the "Old Testament", (and apparently the "Jews" too)? I have a great clue and I'm pretty sure it is you. And concerning money did you never hear what Peter says to Simon the magician? You have only cursed yourself with your false accusations, insinuations, attempts at character assassination, and for thinking and trying to suggest that this is about money. Anyone can see that there is absoluetly no plea for money here, not here, and not in any site links that might go to my testimony because there is no plea for money in any of my testimony.

I have a real problem with you auctioning off Jews and Atheists for $4.50 in one of your recent threads. Please go away, or find another thread, or make another thread, or go concoct another parable, knock your socks off somewhere else, O king Dialm, head-sum of the gold. :)

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 04:04 AM
Was it not you who was just auctioning off Jews and Atheists for $4.50 in one of your siamese twins threads? Truth be known if they understood your racist and perverted parables they would probably delete you for a while because they would understand that you have ultimately cut off half of the scripture and it is that half which is the only real portion of the scripture that has ever been called scripture by the scripture itself. What sort of person interprets "Esau have I hated" to mean that God hates the "Old Testament", (and apparently the "Jews" too)? I have a great clue and I'm pretty sure it is you. And concerning money did you never hear what Peter says to Simon the magician? You have only cursed yourself with your false accusations, insinuations, attempts at character assassination, and for thinking and trying to suggest that this is about money. Anyone can see that there is absoluetly no plea for money here, not here, and not in any site links that might go to my testimony because there is no plea for money in any of my testimony.

I have a real problem with you auctioning off Jews and Atheists for $4.50 in one of your recent threads. Please go away, or find another thread, or make another thread, or go concoct another parable, knock your socks off somewhere else, O king Dialm, head-sum of the gold. :)

Oh you don't like my auction?

What does the term 'back sliding heifer' mean to you? (The Calvinists received this cattle prod and we would like to understand which end is which.)

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 05:48 AM
The name Jesus was invented about 1525 AD, by Sir William Tyndale, a protestant reformer from Oxford, England.
Before then the name Jesus did not exist. The Catholics are experts at deceit and misleading people away from God.

Pope Gregory and Paganism.

The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.
Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 12 March 604.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? Maybe the answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.

Pope Gregory did what he was told. He had more power than Moses, changing times and seasons.

William, Boxcar Willy, Tyndale had more power than Pope Gregory, changing names and places.

We are not going back. The Church is the bride of Christ. We changed our names. We like Greek way more. Do you have any Greek?

daqq
December 21st, 2015, 06:07 AM
Oh you don't like my auction?

What does the term 'back sliding heifer' mean to you? (The Calvinists received this cattle prod and we would like to understand which end is which.)

Go learn what this means: Yeshua Says, Shaul, Shaul, why do you haggle me? It is to the drying of the shank for you to kick against the cattle proder.


http://images.zaazu.com/img/giggle-animated-animation-giggle-smiley-emoticon-000389-large.gif


And after that, O fatling of Bashan, perhaps you might understand this:

1 Corinthians 9:8-10
8. Say I these things as a man? or does not the Torah say the same also?
9. For it is written in the Torah of Moshe, You shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treads out the corn [Deut 25:4]. Does Elohim take care for oxen?
10. Or does he say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that plows should plow in hope; and that he that threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope.

And after that, O cornfed corn treader, perhaps you might understand that Ephraim has been cast off into the outer bounds, (Romans 7:14-25) which is a body-temple allegory. The ten tribes are become an allegorical enemy in your own borders of the flesh: as concerning the good-news gospel they are become enemies for your sake, but as touching the election, they are beloved for sakes of the fathers. Ephraim-Yisrael therefore suffers from partial blindness until the fullness of the heathen have entered in, (Romans 11:16-29). But Elohim in His wisdom, through the Testimony of Messiah Yeshua and the cross at Golgotha, has made both into one new man, (Ephesians 2:11-22). Therefore, if one is a true Jew according to the scripture, then the same is to shepherd all the tribes which are now scattered in the outer bounds, (with a rod of iron which is Torah) rather than slay and kill them. It is an allegory of your body temple which has both the adamah-soil of the heart, which is inner, and the erets-outer-bounds common-profane area of the temple precinct, which is "the flesh" with all its attributes, (every man has his land, O man). And when you enter into Yeshua faithfulness then Paul clearly teaches you that you are no more your own, neither is your house-temple with its lands and fields your own, but by the Testimony of Yeshua you are left in charge while the House Master is as if "away in a far journey". Therefore it is you who are to shepherd over the house and the lands: for the Prophets have said concerning Ephraim, "Thus says YHWH, A voice heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping: Rachel weeping for her sons, refused to be comforted for her sons, because they are not. Thus says YHWH, Refrain your voice from weeping, and your eyes from tears; for your work shall be rewarded, says YHWH, and they shall come again from the land of the enemy. And there is hope in your latter end, says YHWH, your sons shall return again to their own border. I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus: You have chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art YHWH my Elohim. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth. Is Ephraim My dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spoke against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore My bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, says YHWH, (Jeremiah 31:15-20). Perhaps you have need of patience, that, after you have done the will of Elohim, you might receive the Promise, (Hebrews 10:36). :idunno: :)

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 08:39 AM
Jesus told some Jewish people,

"Don't touch me."

daqq
December 21st, 2015, 09:44 AM
Jesus told some Jewish people,

"Don't touch me."

And you are commissioned by your furious leader to help round up the infidels up into box cars? But how will the infidel be ensnared in his words if the Mufti performing the inquisition does not first know what is actually written? This happened with Yeshua quite often in the Gospel accounts. The Pharisees and Sadducees assumed he was a sinner born in fornication because he was not ashamed to be seen conversing with publicans and sinners. Yet whenever the rulers and scribes tried to tempt him with obtuse and strange concoctions, from the machinations of their own vain imaginations, they were soundly refuted from what is written. So then, I say, outside the possibility of John 20:17, (which may or may not be a correct rendering of hapto-haptomai) where does Yeshua say to "some Jewish people" what you have said that he "told some Jewish people"?

I see you even have it in quotes that Yeshua told some Jewish people, "Don't touch me."

Where is that written Mr. Boxcar Conductor? :chuckle:

:sheep:

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 01:59 PM
And you are commissioned by your furious leader to help round up the infidels up into box cars? But how will the infidel be ensnared in his words if the Mufti performing the inquisition does not first know what is actually written? This happened with Yeshua quite often in the Gospel accounts. The Pharisees and Sadducees assumed he was a sinner born in fornication because he was not ashamed to be seen conversing with publicans and sinners. Yet whenever the rulers and scribes tried to tempt him with obtuse and strange concoctions, from the machinations of their own vain imaginations, they were soundly refuted from what is written. So then, I say, outside the possibility of John 20:17, (which may or may not be a correct rendering of hapto-haptomai) where does Yeshua say to "some Jewish people" what you have said that he "told some Jewish people"?

I see you even have it in quotes that Yeshua told some Jewish people, "Don't touch me."

Where is that written Mr. Boxcar Conductor? :chuckle:

:sheep:

Very long time since the Jewish people have written scripture. That is because they have lost the touch. The touch was their gift. Their gift is gone. Fire sale. Rock bottom pricing. Everything must go.

Pack everything up in your kit bag. Your going on a trip. You won't be coming back. The music has begun.

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 02:26 PM
If the Jewish people want to go back to their roots they got to give up the quackery. There is only one way to do it.

Write some scripture. Until then all we get is train wrecks.

daqq
December 21st, 2015, 02:32 PM
Very long time since the Jewish people have written scripture. That is because they have lost the touch. The touch was their gift. Their gift is gone. Fire sale. Rock bottom pricing. Everything must go.

Pack everything up in your kit bag. Your going on a trip. You won't be coming back. The music has begun.

Perhaps it was your favorite translator team who lost touch and caused all those who put their trust in them to likewise lose touch? As for trips I've already been on mine and never went back. Perhaps that is why you fail to understand most what has been said herein? Do you have anything to offer to this thread? There are many things Yeshua said: why have you quoted none? :)

Continuing on then -- Re: Post#47 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4557157&postcount=47), #52 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4557866&postcount=52), #53 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4558424&postcount=53), #54 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4558453&postcount=54), #56 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4558978&postcount=56)

Yeshua Says: Are there not twelve hours of the day? If anyone walks in the day, he stumbles not, because he sees the light of this world. But if anyone walks in the night, he stumbles, because there is no light in him, (John 11:9-10).

Numbers 7:10-12
10. And the princes brought near the dedication of the altar, in a Yom-Day it was anointed, and the princes offered their oblation before the altar.
11. And YHWH said unto Moshe, One prince a yom-hour, one prince a yom-hour, they shall bring near their offering for the dedication of the altar.
12. And he that offered his oblation in the first yom-hour was Nahshon, son of Amminadab, for tribe Yhudah:

Numbers 7:18, 24, 30, 36, 42, 48, 54, 60, 66, 72, 78
7:18. In the second yom-hour Nethaneel son of Zuar, prince of Yissachar, brought near.
7:24. In the third yom-hour, prince of the sons of Zebulun, Eliab son of Helon:
7:30. In the fourth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Reuben, Elizur son of Shedeur:
7:36. In the fifth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Shimon, Shelumiel son of Zurishaddai:
7:42. In the sixth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Gad, Eliasaph son of Deuel:
7:48. In the seventh yom-hour, prince of the sons of Ephraim, Elishama son of Ammihud:
7:54. In the eighth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Manasheh, Gamaliel son of Pedahzur:
7:60. In the ninth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Benyamin, Abidan son of Gideoni:
7:66. In the tenth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Dan, Ahiezer son of Ammishaddai:
7:72. In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Asher, Pagiel son of Okran:
7:78. In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan:

Numbers 7:84
84. This is the dedication of the altar; in a Yom-Day it was anointed by the princes of Yisrael: twelve charger-bowls of silver, twelve basin-bowls of silver, twelve palm-spoons of gold:

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 02:41 PM
Here is what is going to happen

The Jewish people are going to produce more scripture. Then we are going to take it away from them. Because we know what to do with it and they don't.

So get busy. We have been kept waiting long enough.

Do we have to turn up the heat?

Write something we can actually use.

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 03:22 PM
Every believer has a gift. We are to exercise our gift to the glory of God Almighty.

The Calvinists are the brains
The Roman Catholics are the muscle
The Methodists are the party throwers

And the Jews are the writers. Now write.

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 03:35 PM
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

So how about it. Do what the book says. Record these and turn them over to us. You will be amply rewarded.

daqq
December 21st, 2015, 03:45 PM
Here is what is going to happen

The Jewish people are going to produce more scripture. Then we are going to take it away from them. Because we know what to do with it and they don't.

So get busy. We have been kept waiting long enough.

Do we have to turn up the heat?

Write something we can actually use.


Every believer has a gift. We are to exercise our gift to the glory of God Almighty.

The Calvinists are the brains
The Roman Catholics are the muscle
The Methodists are the party throwers

And the Jews are the writers. Now write.

That is indeed actually what is therein Dialm.
If you are the brains then why can you not see it?
Here it is transliterated so that you need not read Hebrew:

Numbers 7:72 TUA
72. Byowm `ashtey `asar yowm nasiy' libney 'Asher Pag`iy'el ben- `Akran.

Numbers 7:78 TUA
78. Byowm shneym `asar yowm nasiy' libney Naptaliy 'Achiyra` ben- `Eynan.

You see how YOWM is written twice in both verses? That means that they cannot both be rendered as "day" because there is no way the statements would make any sense that way. They can only logically be rendered the way they have been rendered in my previous post:

Numbers 7:72
72. In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Asher, Pagiel son of Okran:

Numbers 7:78
78. In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan:

See what I mean? You cannot say "In the eleventh day of the day" so the translators of your favorite translation simply OMITTED the second "yom" from each of the two above verses and ignored them so as to provide you with the "good ole boy" translation. :crackup:

Here are some of your favorite English translations of Numbers 7:72
http://biblehub.com/numbers/7-72.htm (http://biblehub.com/numbers/7-72.htm)

Here is the Hebrew Text of Numbers 7:72
http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm (http://biblehub.com/text/numbers/7-72.htm)

It is plain as "day", (pardon the pun, silly me).
Now, silly you, would you please go find someone else to heckle? :)

dialm
December 21st, 2015, 07:10 PM
No one is heckling you. Give something original. Numbers is past tense. You guys argue over nothing. We don't accept your brand of perfection.

Now it is time to use the touch. Do you want me to prime the pump?

daqq
December 22nd, 2015, 03:21 AM
No one is heckling you. Give something original. Numbers is past tense. You guys argue over nothing. We don't accept your brand of perfection.

Now it is time to use the touch. Do you want me to prime the pump?

Poor, blind, naked Dialm, apparently it is the sovereign will of Calvingod that Dialm remains in the darkness. Why can Dialm not see that the things herein the past few pages pertain to the six hours of creation and again the six hours of the new creation, from the third hour to the ninth hour, at Golgotha which new creation was accomplished through Messiah? The Gospel and good news is Messiah, and Yeshua having been crucified, and raised again in the third day. Apparently Calvingod tells his followers that all of this is past tense, "nothing", (forgive him Father) old news, repetitive, and unnecessary. The reason it is all "past tense" to Dialm is because he has not been crucified with Messiah. That is why Dialm and those with him prefer to hear, "Jesus said", rather than, "Yeshua Says", because they secretly in their hearts assume Messiah as dead and gone while they steal his words and use them to promote their establishments and dominion over their flocks.

Yeshua Says: The heavens and the earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

:sheep:

dialm
December 22nd, 2015, 04:02 AM
sleep

you are trying to put your friends to sleep. every time judgement falls they are asleep. have often wondered how that could be. and now I know. messengers such as you give them the sleeping draught.

It is their weakness. They take the pill. They pass out. Then Satan has his way with them. They walk in their sleep. They can't stop. They can't fight. They can't protest. They don't even complain.

dialm
December 22nd, 2015, 04:20 AM
Wake up! The philistines are upon you.

Wake up! The writing is on the wall.

Wake up! The Assyrians are shooting arrows into you city.

Wake up! The legions are tearing down your temple.

Wake up! The Spanish inquisitions.

Wake up! The blitzkrieg.

WAKE UP!!!

daqq
December 22nd, 2015, 04:43 AM
sleep

you are trying to put your friends to sleep. every time judgement falls they are asleep. have often wondered how that could be. and now I know. messengers such as you give them the sleeping draught.

It is their weakness. They take the pill. They pass out. Then Satan has his way with them. They walk in their sleep. They can't stop. They can't fight. They can't protest. They don't even complain.


Wake up! The philistines are upon you.

Wake up! The writing is on the wall.

Wake up! The Assyrians are shooting arrows into you city.

Wake up! The legions are tearing down your temple.

Wake up! The Spanish inquisitions.

Wake up! The blitzkrieg.

WAKE UP!!!

Why am I not surprised? But I will continue to use your diatribe so as to continue the current theme of yamim-hours and yom-days just in case anyone else might be interested in what is written in the scriptures that some of us hold dear. The following is one of the few time oriented statements spoken through Yeshua because the passage says, "heos arti", which is to say, "until right now", or "until presently", (the present time). Yeshua makes this statement in the explicit context of Shabbat:

John 5:16-17
16. And for this cause the Yhudim pursued Yeshua, because he did these things in Shabbat.
17. But Yeshua answered them, My Father is working even until now, [heos arti] and I work.

Yeshua answered: My Father is working even until right now, and I work.

And the understanding of this, as it applies to the six yamim-hours of creation in the opening passage of the Genesis account, is correctly understood by the command and the Testimony of the Master Teacher Yeshua, for he says in another time oriented statement: All the Prophets and THE TORAH PROPHESIED UNTIL Yochanan, (Matthew 11:13) and the first chapter of Genesis is most certainly Torah of Moshe. In addition, because of the Testimony of Yeshua, we therefore have great compulsion to go back and search these things out, and research them again, like the Bereans, to see if there might be some things we have missed or misunderstood; and lo and behold, because of the Testimony of Yeshua, when I went to the books, and looked, I saw it there having been written, and I have only the Testimony of Yeshua and the Spirit of Elohim to thank for this thing being shown to me:

Genesis 2:1-4
1. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the hosts of them.
2. And through the seventh yom Elohim ceased his work which he had done; and he rested in the seventh yom from all his work which he had done.
3. And Elohim blessed the seventh yom, and sanctified it: because in it he had rested from all his work which Elohim cut-down-created for to do.
4. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were cut-down-created: in a Yom-Day YHWH Elohim made earth and heavens.

Yeshua Says: If you do not shabbatize every day of the week you will not see the Father. Neither will you see Him in His creation, neither will you see Him in His Prophets, (such as even the shabu`iym-weeks of Daniel) neither will you see Him in the New Creation yamim-hours through Messiah on the cross at Olivet Golgotha Moriah. You are utterly blind and fallen into the ditch Mr. Blitzkrieg! And you prove it by your lack of love and penchant for hate. :chuckle:

:sheep:

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----

Poor Double Blind Dialm, after a quick search I see you are not alone, Calvinism and Nazism (http://calvinismandnazism.blogspot.com/), no wonder none of your fellow Calvinites are here to refute your despicable racist perversion: it appears to be part and parcel of a mindset which believes that your Calvingod cursed certain people from before the foundation of the world. Now therefore, (in the warped machinations of your vain imagination) it is perfectly within the will of your Calvingod for you to do whatsoever you will. And no doubt that is also why you perverted what I said about a train from a vision and twisted my words into Calvinite Nazi propaganda. You are worse off than blind Bar-Timaeus son of Timaeus who was at least willing to bow to the Master Teacher Yeshua, and beg to receive his sight, knowing that he himself was blind. But that is exactly what you said you do, is it not? You come to steal the words and writings of others and use them for your own nefarious machinations and no doubt you do the same with the Word of Elohim, the words of Messiah, and the writings of Paul, to your own destruction. The train has left the station and Dialm is apparently "Left Behind" in the ditch. :crackup:

Recap: Three Days and Three Nights - Matthew 12:40 - #43 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4555551&postcount=43), #44 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4555593&postcount=44)
Yom-Day and Yom-Hour - #47 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4557157&postcount=47), #52 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4557866&postcount=52), #53 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4558424&postcount=53), #54 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4558453&postcount=54), #56 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4558978&postcount=56), #71 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4560098&postcount=71), #75 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4560164&postcount=75), #80 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4560854&postcount=80)

http://images.zaazu.com/img/Hear-No-Evil-Hear-No-Evil-Kikazaru-ears-smiley-emoticon-001202-facebook.gif

dialm
December 23rd, 2015, 02:13 PM
Why am I not surprised? But I will continue to use your diatribe so as to continue the current theme of yamim-hours and yom-days just in case anyone else might be interested in what is written in the scriptures that some of us hold dear. The following is one of the few time oriented statements spoken through Yeshua because the passage says, "heos arti", which is to say, "until right now", or "until presently", (the present time). Yeshua makes this statement in the explicit context of Shabbat:

John 5:16-17
16. And for this cause the Yhudim pursued Yeshua, because he did these things in Shabbat.
17. But Yeshua answered them, My Father is working even until now, [heos arti] and I work.

Yeshua answered: My Father is working even until right now, and I work.

And the understanding of this, as it applies to the six yamim-hours of creation in the opening passage of the Genesis account, is correctly understood by the command and the Testimony of the Master Teacher Yeshua, for he says in another time oriented statement: All the Prophets and THE TORAH PROPHESIED UNTIL Yochanan, (Matthew 11:13) and the first chapter of Genesis is most certainly Torah of Moshe. In addition, because of the Testimony of Yeshua, we therefore have great compulsion to go back and search these things out, and research them again, like the Bereans, to see if there might be some things we have missed or misunderstood; and lo and behold, because of the Testimony of Yeshua, when I went to the books, and looked, I saw it there having been written, and I have only the Testimony of Yeshua and the Spirit of Elohim to thank for this thing being shown to me:

Genesis 2:1-4
1. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the hosts of them.
2. And through the seventh yom Elohim ceased his work which he had done; and he rested in the seventh yom from all his work which he had done.
3. And Elohim blessed the seventh yom, and sanctified it: because in it he had rested from all his work which Elohim cut-down-created for to do.
4. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were cut-down-created: in a Yom-Day YHWH Elohim made earth and heavens.

Yeshua Says: If you do not shabbatize every day of the week you will not see the Father. Neither will you see Him in His creation, neither will you see Him in His Prophets, (such as even the shabu`iym-weeks of Daniel) neither will you see Him in the New Creation yamim-hours through Messiah on the cross at Olivet Golgotha Moriah. You are utterly blind and fallen into the ditch Mr. Blitzkrieg! And you prove it by your lack of love and penchant for hate. :chuckle:

:sheep:

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----

Poor Double Blind Dialm, after a quick search I see you are not alone, Calvinism and Nazism (http://calvinismandnazism.blogspot.com/), no wonder none of your fellow Calvinites are here to refute your despicable racist perversion: it appears to be part and parcel of a mindset which believes that your Calvingod cursed certain people from before the foundation of the world. Now therefore, (in the warped machinations of your vain imagination) it is perfectly within the will of your Calvingod for you to do whatsoever you will. And no doubt that is also why you perverted what I said about a train from a vision and twisted my words into Calvinite Nazi propaganda. You are worse off than blind Bar-Timaeus son of Timaeus who was at least willing to bow to the Master Teacher Yeshua, and beg to receive his sight, knowing that he himself was blind. But that is exactly what you said you do, is it not? You come to steal the words and writings of others and use them for your own nefarious machinations and no doubt you do the same with the Word of Elohim, the words of Messiah, and the writings of Paul, to your own destruction. The train has left the station and Dialm is apparently "Left Behind" in the ditch. :crackup:

Recap: Three Days and Three Nights - Matthew 12:40 - #43 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4555551&postcount=43), #44 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4555593&postcount=44)
Yom-Day and Yom-Hour - #47 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4557157&postcount=47), #52 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4557866&postcount=52), #53 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4558424&postcount=53), #54 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4558453&postcount=54), #56 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4558978&postcount=56), #71 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4560098&postcount=71), #75 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4560164&postcount=75), #80 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4560854&postcount=80)

http://images.zaazu.com/img/Hear-No-Evil-Hear-No-Evil-Kikazaru-ears-smiley-emoticon-001202-facebook.gif

Now that was not nice was it?

It was Rabbis in Germany who said 'peace peace' not the Calvinists.

The Calvinist proclaim

WAR WAR

Can you hear those Sabres rattling? They've just been polished and readied for action.

RBBI
December 24th, 2015, 02:41 PM
There is a serious problem with these postings. But the part about the train is interesting. You guys have a thing about trains. Do you hear the whistle blowing? It is right around the bend. The tracks are shaking. Box cars. Lots and lots of box cars. They don't have any windows. No sunshine in the box cars.

I HOPE I'm misunderstanding this and this comment is not as racist and beyond insulting as it appears to be. :confused:

daqq
December 24th, 2015, 03:08 PM
I HOPE I'm misunderstanding this and this comment is not as racist and beyond insulting as it appears to be. :confused:

Unfortunately if you read the rest of the posts from Dialm in this thread you will see that you are not misunderstanding. Dialm has taught much in this thread about Calvinism that I was unaware of until now, (even though I politely asked not to be informed of such in this thread). It appears Dialm does not like the fact that certain people have the same opportunity to post threads in this venue.

----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----

Glory in the highest to Elohim and on earth peace among men of [a] good will, (Luk 2:14). :)

:sheep: (http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/equinoctial-torah-calendar.html)

RBBI
December 29th, 2015, 04:12 PM
Sigh....never ceases to amaze me what the children birthed of religion have in their hearts.

Nevertheless, amazing thread. I've read it several times. Would you clarify for me what you mean about a yom hour? I know I'm missing something I'm supposed to see. Thanks....peace.

daqq
December 29th, 2015, 05:01 PM
Sigh....never ceases to amaze me what the children birthed of religion have in their hearts.

Nevertheless, amazing thread. I've read it several times. Would you clarify for me what you mean about a yom hour? I know I'm missing something I'm supposed to see. Thanks....peace.

Shabbatize every day of the week. The seventh hour of the day is Shabbat. The seventh hour of the seventh day is a Shabbat in its Shabbat, (which are called "sabbasin" in the Gospel accounts). This thinking likewise concerns the prophetic shabu`iym-weeks of Daniel and are derived from the six yamim-hours-days of creation, and the twelve yamim-hours of the single Yom-Day quoted previously herein, from Numbers 7, in the single Yom-Day wherein the altar was anointed. In the beginning Elohim divides the Light from the Darkness; and the Light He calls Yom-Day. Remember also that an evening and a morning are a Yom-Day. In the new creation Genesis there is no night because the six yamim-days of creation are the six yamim-hours of Golgotha. The new order of creation was accomplished through Messiah Yeshua at Golgotha. All one needs to do is to see that a Yom-Day can likewise mean a yom-hour. :)

RBBI
December 29th, 2015, 05:13 PM
Shabbatize every day of the week. The seventh hour of the day is Shabbat. The seventh hour of the seventh day is a Shabbat in its Shabbat, (which are called "sabbasin" in the Gospel accounts). This thinking likewise concerns the prophetic shabu`iym-weeks of Daniel and are derived from the six yamim-hours-days of creation, and the twelve yamim-hours of the single Yom-Day quoted previously herein, from Numbers 7, in the single Yom-Day wherein the altar was anointed. In the beginning Elohim divides the Light from the Darkness; and the Light He calls Yom-Day. Remember also that an evening and a morning are a Yom-Day. In the new creation Genesis there is no night because the six yamim-days of creation are the six yamim-hours of Golgotha. The new order of creation was accomplished through Messiah Yeshua at Golgotha. All one needs to do is to see that a Yom-Day can likewise mean a yom-hour. :)

Ok, well that makes sense. It caught my attention because He's been dealing with me about double Shabbats, and I felt I just wasn't getting it. Sometimes He has to hit me with a brick, lol. :duh:

He gave me a teaching about the 24 hour Yom-Day several years ago. But the rest of what you said wasn't hitting me. Thanks, love things to ponder....peace.

daqq
February 4th, 2016, 04:53 PM
Ok, well that makes sense. It caught my attention because He's been dealing with me about double Shabbats, and I felt I just wasn't getting it. Sometimes He has to hit me with a brick, lol. :duh:

He gave me a teaching about the 24 hour Yom-Day several years ago. But the rest of what you said wasn't hitting me. Thanks, love things to ponder....peace.

Here is what I mean from the previous page quoting the Numbers passage:


Numbers 7:10-12
10. And the princes brought near the dedication of the altar, in a Yom-Day it was anointed, and the princes offered their oblation before the altar.
11. And YHWH said unto Moshe, One prince a yom-hour, one prince a yom-hour, they shall bring near their offering for the dedication of the altar.
12. And he that offered his oblation in the first yom-hour was Nahshon, son of Amminadab, for tribe Yhudah:

Numbers 7:18, 24, 30, 36, 42, 48, 54, 60, 66, 72, 78
7:18. In the second yom-hour Nethaneel son of Zuar, prince of Yissachar, brought near.
7:24. In the third yom-hour, prince of the sons of Zebulun, Eliab son of Helon:
7:30. In the fourth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Reuben, Elizur son of Shedeur:
7:36. In the fifth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Shimon, Shelumiel son of Zurishaddai:
7:42. In the sixth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Gad, Eliasaph son of Deuel:
7:48. In the seventh yom-hour, prince of the sons of Ephraim, Elishama son of Ammihud:
7:54. In the eighth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Manasheh, Gamaliel son of Pedahzur:
7:60. In the ninth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Benyamin, Abidan son of Gideoni:
7:66. In the tenth yom-hour, prince of the sons of Dan, Ahiezer son of Ammishaddai:
7:72. In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Asher, Pagiel son of Okran:
7:78. In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan:

Numbers 7:84
84. This is the dedication of the altar; in a Yom-Day it was anointed by the princes of Yisrael: twelve charger-bowls of silver, twelve basin-bowls of silver, twelve palm-spoons of gold:


Here it is transliterated so that you need not read Hebrew:

Numbers 7:72 TUA
72. Byowm `ashtey `asar yowm nasiy' libney 'Asher Pag`iy'el ben- `Akran.

Numbers 7:78 TUA
78. Byowm shneym `asar yowm nasiy' libney Naptaliy 'Achiyra` ben- `Eynan.

You see how YOWM is written twice in both verses? That means that they cannot both be rendered as "day" because there is no way the statements would make any sense that way. They can only logically be rendered the way they have been rendered in my previous post:

Numbers 7:72
72. In the eleventh yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Asher, Pagiel son of Okran:

Numbers 7:78
78. In the twelfth yom-hour of the yom-day, prince of the sons of Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan:

See what I mean? You cannot say "In the eleventh day of the day" so the translators of your favorite translation simply OMITTED the second "yom" from each of the two above verses and ignored them so as to provide you with the "good ole boy" translation. :crackup:

Note the comments highlighted in yellow. :)

RBBI
February 5th, 2016, 11:05 AM
Yes, I see it and "good ole boy" translation sums it up nicely....Peace

keypurr
February 5th, 2016, 12:27 PM
Daqq I want you to know how much I enjoy your thread. I wish I could hear your stories all day long. They show the depth of the understanding you have been given. You have been blessed friend and I want to thank you for sharing what you have. I pray that I be given the wisdom to see all that you post. Thanks for sharing. Blessings to you.

daqq
February 5th, 2016, 06:13 PM
Daqq I want you to know how much I enjoy your thread. I wish I could hear your stories all day long. They show the depth of the understanding you have been given. You have been blessed friend and I want to thank you for sharing what you have. I pray that I be given the wisdom to see all that you post. Thanks for sharing. Blessings to you.

Thank you for the kind words Keypurr, and anything you would like to discuss at this point, feel free to bring it up, (whether here or anywhere else). And blessings you too, friend. :)

Yeshua Says: It is written, (Deut 8:3 LXX) Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Elohim, (Matthew 4:4).

RBBI
February 5th, 2016, 09:01 PM
Amen, to Keypurr.......and you just quoted my favorites of all....Peace

keypurr
February 5th, 2016, 11:24 PM
Thank you for the kind words Keypurr, and anything you would like to discuss at this point, feel free to bring it up, (whether here or anywhere else). And blessings you too, friend. :)

Yeshua Says: It is written, (Deut 8:3 LXX) Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of Elohim, (Matthew 4:4).

Thanks friend, I have a lot of questions but limited ability to retain the answers. I find your post of great interest. You and RBBI keep my mind active.

daqq
February 6th, 2016, 03:06 PM
Here is what is going to happen

The Jewish people are going to produce more scripture. Then we are going to take it away from them. Because we know what to do with it and they don't.

So get busy. We have been kept waiting long enough.

Do we have to turn up the heat?

Write something we can actually use.

Once upon a harvest in the fields of the King a ten foot tare said unto the wheat: I care not what the King has said, I shall overrun you all and take what is yours and make it mine!

Yeshua Says: Truly, truly, I say unto you, That you shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and you shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail has sorrows because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembers no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And you now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man shall take from you.

Yeshua Says: Truly, truly, I say unto you, Except a kokkos of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it dies, it brings forth much fruit.

A ten-foot stalk of Egyptian wheat once said that if he ever saw a miracle he would claim it as his own: but how can such a one do what he would if when he sees a true miracle he will not believe his own eyes? One of the greatest miracles of all creation is the grain of seed. I know One who keeps the seedlings of many different and beautiful species for his garden. Each year before planting time the various specimens of dried seedlings are brought forth from the storehouse: and when the proper time is come they are sown in their given places in the garden and plentifully watered according to the pleasure of the Planter.

Once upon the apple of an eye there was a Rabbi and his talmid. One day the talmid came to the Sukkah for a study with his Teacher, and the talmid noticed that there was a brown paper packet full of old dried seeds having been placed upon the table where the two had reclined to immerse in discourse and Word. And as they immersed in discourse and Word it came to pass that in his carelessness the talmid knocked over the cup of water which the Teacher had placed beside him at the table. And so the water splashed out and flowed across the table, and from the chaos the packet of old dried seeds became sprinkled with a splattering of small droplets of water, like a little rain upon the outside of the packet. Unfazed, as if knowing this would eventually occur, the Teacher snatched up the packet in his hand and quickly took the seeds outside to sow them in the garden. As the talmid watched, somewhat stunned by the preeminence given to this matter over and above their study time, he realized that the seeds must have been precious, having been kept for a very long time: yet the moment at hand was now become a critical time for the precious seedlings. And so, not understanding exactly how seeds work, the talmid says to the Master, What is the reason for such immediacy? And the Gardener replied, Because the seeds are not dead but merely sleeping; and as soon as they receive any moisture whatsoever they are awakened, no matter how long they have been sleeping: for their worm never dies. Then the talmid began to understand the true miracle of the seed: and the Word spoke to me and brought to my remembrance, Whoso of all the families of the earth that will not come up to the holy city of above, to worship YHWH Elohim the Almighty King, upon the same shall be no rain! And I understood that all the grains with hardened shells repelling the water of the Word shall not open up or sprout forth in their due seasons; like autumn trees having past the appointed time yet bearing no discernible fruit, neither for the good nor for the evil, they shall bear no fruit: for their worm receives no rain. And yet shall they not forget the words of the Master; for the Word of the Father through the Son shall never pass away. All we are like seeds, according as it is written, and the Father gives each one its own heavenly body accordingly as it pleases Him.

And the Master says to the talmid, The seed is likewise the Word having been planted in the finely tilled garden of the adamah-soil. Yet outside in the badlands of the erets-countryside the tares abound in the fields: and so the fields must needs be burned. And I understood that the adamah-soil is the soil of the heart while the erets-land is the outer bounds common-profane, which is an allegory of the flesh, like the outer perimeter commons-profane area of the temple. And I remembered back to a time when I once fancied myself to have been some ten foot mighty one, already having been saved: yea, chosen and elect in my utter blindness, and then I realized why it was that my fields had a need to be burned in the first place: and how it is, and why it is, and to whom be the glory that even now I do sit here, having been clothed from above, and in my right mind. And no man can steal my joy in the Master. :)

Zeke
February 6th, 2016, 03:36 PM
Thanks friend, I have a lot of questions but limited ability to retain the answers. I find your post of great interest. You and RBBI keep my mind active.

Maybe a coarse in Yiddish would help.

daqq
February 6th, 2016, 04:01 PM
Maybe a coarse in Yiddish would help.

Would you like some real Yiddish? :)

Hebrews 6:1-8 OJB
1. Therefore, let us leave behind the stam (elementary) ikarim (essentials) of the dvarim hahora'ah (words of teaching) about Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, and let us move ahead to hitbagrut (maturity), not laying again a foundation of teshuva from ma'asim metim (dead works) and Emunah toward Hashem,
2. Of divrei torah on tevilot and tohorah and s'michat yadayim and of the Techiyas HaMesim and of the Mishpat Olam.
3. And this we shall do, im yirtzeh Hashem (if the L-rd wills).
4. For it is impossible for those who once received the Ohr Hashem, having tasted of the matanah of Shomayim and having become chavrusa partners of the Ruach Hakodesh,
5. And having tasted the goodness of the Dvar Hashem and the nifla'ot of the Olam Habah,
6. and then, having fallen away, and become shmad-- it is impossible to renew them again to teshuva, because they have pierced to themselves the Ben HaElohim on HaEtz HaKelalat Hashem and have again held him up to contempt and open bushah (shame).
7. For the Adamah (Mud), which drinks the geshem (rain) that often falls upon it, and brings forth ESEV (plants, BERESHIS 1:11) suitable for those for whom it is cultivated, receives a bracha from Hashem;
8. But if Adamah (Mud) is producing KOTZ V'DARDAR (thorns and thistles, BERESHIS 3:18), it is worthless and near to being arurah (cursed, BERESHIS 3:17), whose Ketz (End) is for burning in Eish [T.N. the allusion is to Eish Gehinnom].
http://biblehub.com/ojb/hebrews/6.htm (http://biblehub.com/ojb/hebrews/6.htm)

:sheep:

RBBI
February 6th, 2016, 05:46 PM
AMEN, I LOVED both your posts. To him that hath an ear, let him hear. Peace

keypurr
February 6th, 2016, 09:30 PM
Maybe a coarse in Yiddish would help.

Already considered.

keypurr
February 6th, 2016, 10:32 PM
Once upon a harvest in the fields of the King a ten foot tare said unto the wheat: I care not what the King has said, I shall overrun you all and take what is yours and make it mine!

Yeshua Says: Truly, truly, I say unto you, That you shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and you shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail has sorrows because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembers no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And you now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man shall take from you.

Yeshua Says: Truly, truly, I say unto you, Except a kokkos of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it dies, it brings forth much fruit.

A ten-foot stalk of Egyptian wheat once said that if he ever saw a miracle he would claim it as his own: but how can such a one do what he would if when he sees a true miracle he will not believe his own eyes? One of the greatest miracles of all creation is the grain of seed. I know One who keeps the seedlings of many different and beautiful species for his garden. Each year before planting time the various specimens of dried seedlings are brought forth from the storehouse: and when the proper time is come they are sown in their given places in the garden and plentifully watered according to the pleasure of the Planter.

Once upon the apple of an eye there was a Rabbi and his talmid. One day the talmid came to the Sukkah for a study with his Teacher, and the talmid noticed that there was a brown paper packet full of old dried seeds having been placed upon the table where the two had reclined to immerse in discourse and Word. And as they immersed in discourse and Word it came to pass that in his carelessness the talmid knocked over the cup of water which the Teacher had placed beside him at the table. And so the water splashed out and flowed across the table, and from the chaos the packet of old dried seeds became sprinkled with a splattering of small droplets of water, like a little rain upon the outside of the packet. Unfazed, as if knowing this would eventually occur, the Teacher snatched up the packet in his hand and quickly took the seeds outside to sow them in the garden. As the talmid watched, somewhat stunned by the preeminence given to this matter over and above their study time, he realized that the seeds must have been precious, having been kept for a very long time: yet the moment at hand was now become a critical time for the precious seedlings. And so, not understanding exactly how seeds work, the talmid says to the Master, What is the reason for such immediacy? And the Gardener replied, Because the seeds are not dead but merely sleeping; and as soon as they receive any moisture whatsoever they are awakened, no matter how long they have been sleeping: for their worm never dies. Then the talmid began to understand the true miracle of the seed: and the Word spoke to me and brought to my remembrance, Whoso of all the families of the earth that will not come up to the holy city of above, to worship YHWH Elohim the Almighty King, upon the same shall be no rain! And I understood that all the grains with hardened shells repelling the water of the Word shall not open up or sprout forth in their due seasons; like autumn trees having past the appointed time yet bearing no discernible fruit, neither for the good nor for the evil, they shall bear no fruit: for their worm receives no rain. And yet shall they not forget the words of the Master; for the Word of the Father through the Son shall never pass away. All we are like seeds, according as it is written, and the Father gives each one its own heavenly body accordingly as it pleases Him.

And the Master says to the talmid, The seed is likewise the Word having been planted in the finely tilled garden of the adamah-soil. Yet outside in the badlands of the erets-countryside the tares abound in the fields: and so the fields must needs be burned. And I understood that the adamah-soil is the soil of the heart while the erets-land is the outer bounds common-profane, which is an allegory of the flesh, like the outer perimeter commons-profane area of the temple. And I remembered back to a time when I once fancied myself to have been some ten foot mighty one, already having been saved: yea, chosen and elect in my utter blindness, and then I realized why it was that my fields had a need to be burned in the first place: and how it is, and why it is, and to whom be the glory that even now I do sit here, having been clothed from above, and in my right mind. And no man can steal my joy in the Master. :)

Such wisdom, I pray for it.

Zeke
February 7th, 2016, 09:23 AM
Would you like some real Yiddish? :)

Hebrews 6:1-8 OJB
1. Therefore, let us leave behind the stam (elementary) ikarim (essentials) of the dvarim hahora'ah (words of teaching) about Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, and let us move ahead to hitbagrut (maturity), not laying again a foundation of teshuva from ma'asim metim (dead works) and Emunah toward Hashem,
2. Of divrei torah on tevilot and tohorah and s'michat yadayim and of the Techiyas HaMesim and of the Mishpat Olam.
3. And this we shall do, im yirtzeh Hashem (if the L-rd wills).
4. For it is impossible for those who once received the Ohr Hashem, having tasted of the matanah of Shomayim and having become chavrusa partners of the Ruach Hakodesh,
5. And having tasted the goodness of the Dvar Hashem and the nifla'ot of the Olam Habah,
6. and then, having fallen away, and become shmad-- it is impossible to renew them again to teshuva, because they have pierced to themselves the Ben HaElohim on HaEtz HaKelalat Hashem and have again held him up to contempt and open bushah (shame).
7. For the Adamah (Mud), which drinks the geshem (rain) that often falls upon it, and brings forth ESEV (plants, BERESHIS 1:11) suitable for those for whom it is cultivated, receives a bracha from Hashem;
8. But if Adamah (Mud) is producing KOTZ V'DARDAR (thorns and thistles, BERESHIS 3:18), it is worthless and near to being arurah (cursed, BERESHIS 3:17), whose Ketz (End) is for burning in Eish [T.N. the allusion is to Eish Gehinnom].
http://biblehub.com/ojb/hebrews/6.htm (http://biblehub.com/ojb/hebrews/6.htm)

:sheep:

The old man can't buy a break, drowned, nuked, killed with jaw bone, one out of five stones between the eyes, slaughtered by angels, blinded, deceived by He-brews made from Ancient potions of fear etc.......................Time for a raise.

daqq
February 7th, 2016, 02:16 PM
The old man can't buy a break, drowned, nuked, killed with jaw bone, one out of five stones between the eyes, slaughtered by angels, blinded, deceived by He-brews made from Ancient potions of fear etc.......................Time for a raise.

The old man cannot be rehabilitated and thus we are to show him no mercy. In the End he goes into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels; but it really is not until that time that we really understand who he/she/it is, (or was). What is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of Elohim. If you are Hebrew minded your old man is Hebrew minded; if you are Greek minded your old man is Greek minded, if you are English speaking your old man is English speaking; soul for soul, eye for eye, hand for hand, foot for foot: he/she knows you like yourself, and his/her desire is unto you, for he/she/it wants to spend forever with you, yes, forever and forever. :crackup:

daqq
February 7th, 2016, 03:55 PM
The old man cannot be rehabilitated and thus we are to show him no mercy. In the End he goes into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels; but it really is not until that time that we really understand who he/she/it is, (or was). What is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of Elohim. If you are Hebrew minded your old man is Hebrew minded; if you are Greek minded your old man is Greek minded, if you are English speaking your old man is English speaking; soul for soul, eye for eye, hand for hand, foot for foot: he/she knows you like yourself, and his/her desire is unto you, for he/she/it wants to spend forever with you, yes, forever and forever. :crackup:

Come to think of it that is the same issue Dialm and the Calvinites are all hung up and strung up on: for the carnal man refuses to see that the Creator and Potter has the right to make two vessels out of the selfsame lump of clay. Every man has his own body-vessel, (which is no more our own when we come to Messiah) which is likened to an earthen vessel, and which holds inside the treasure which is the man, (the man is not his body). As it is written, Yakob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with Elohim? Say no such thing! Therefore Elohim does not condemn one person of a man "just because", or justify another "just because", for that would neither be upright nor righteous. It is a hideous proposal of the Calvinites who know not Elohim and refuse to cut off the old man Esau nature from themselves, for these things are spirit and of a spiritual nature. For Elohim says to Moshe, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of Elohim that shows mercy. For the scripture says toward Pharaoh: Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show My power through you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth. And who is Pharaoh but the old man of Moshe? And who is Esau but the old man twin goat of Yakob? And who is Yishmael to Yitschak? And who is Shaul to David? And so on and so on. For every man is one individual selfsame lump of clay from which two vessels of spirit are formed by the Potter. Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He wills He hardens, and the hardened one is always the firstborn vessel of the spirit of pride which goes into destruction at the time appointed of the Father, (each in his or her own appointed times and no one knows the day or the hour). And if one should say, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will? (as the Calvinites likewise say). Nay but, O man, who are you to reply against Elohim? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why have you made me twain? Has not the Potter the power over the clay, out of the selfsame lump, to make one vessel of spirit unto honor, and another unto dishonor? What if Elohim, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction even so that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had before prepared unto glory, even us, the new man in Messiah Yeshua, whom Elohim has called out of Babylon of the flesh minded carnal old man kingdom? And this not only of the Yhudim but also of the nations! :)

RBBI
February 7th, 2016, 04:53 PM
The old man cannot be rehabilitated and thus we are to show him no mercy. In the End he goes into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels; but it really is not until that time that we really understand who he/she/it is, (or was). What is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of Elohim. If you are Hebrew minded your old man is Hebrew minded; if you are Greek minded your old man is Greek minded, if you are English speaking your old man is English speaking; soul for soul, eye for eye, hand for hand, foot for foot: e/she knows you like yourself, and his/her desire is unto you, for he/she/it wants to spend forever with you, yes, forever and forever. :crackup:

Lovely thought, isn't it? NOT

Zeke
February 7th, 2016, 05:26 PM
Come to think of it that is the same issue Dialm and the Calvinites are all hung up and strung up on: for the carnal man refuses to see that the Creator and Potter has the right to make two vessels out of the selfsame lump of clay. Every man has his own body-vessel, (which is no more our own when we come to Messiah) which is likened to an earthen vessel, and which holds inside the treasure which is the man, (the man is not his body). As it is written, Yakob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with Elohim? Say no such thing! Therefore Elohim does not condemn one person of a man "just because", or justify another "just because", for that would neither be upright nor righteous. It is a hideous proposal of the Calvinites who know not Elohim and refuse to cut off the old man Esau nature from themselves, for these things are spirit and of a spiritual nature. For Elohim says to Moshe, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of Elohim that shows mercy. For the scripture says toward Pharaoh: Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show My power through you, and that My name might be declared throughout all the earth. And who is Pharaoh but the old man of Moshe? And who is Esau but the old man twin goat of Yakob? And who is Yishmael to Yitschak? And who is Shaul to David? And so on and so on. For every man is one individual selfsame lump of clay from which two vessels of spirit are formed by the Potter. Therefore He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He wills He hardens, and the hardened one is always the firstborn vessel of the spirit of pride which goes into destruction at the time appointed of the Father, (each in his or her own appointed times and no one knows the day or the hour). And if one should say, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will? (as the Calvinites likewise say). Nay but, O man, who are you to reply against Elohim? Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, Why have you made me twain? Has not the Potter the power over the clay, out of the selfsame lump, to make one vessel of spirit unto honor, and another unto dishonor? What if Elohim, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction even so that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had before prepared unto glory, even us, the new man in Messiah Yeshua, whom Elohim has called out of Babylon of the flesh minded carnal old man kingdom? And this not only of the Yhudim but also of the nations! :)

Galatians 4:23-28, Luke 17:20-21 the short version:).

daqq
February 7th, 2016, 05:40 PM
Lovely thought, isn't it? NOT

Like a shaggy-goat satyr with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head returning from the dry-arid places and the shadows of the west, not touching the ground, prince of the power of the air, fierce countenance of `Az, returning to the house from which he came in league with seven other spirits more wicked than himself: And who shall live when El does this? None shall be alone in his appointed times.

OCTOBER23
February 7th, 2016, 05:51 PM
DAGGNAMIT, WHAT KIND OF BALONEY IS THIS ?????

YOU ARE DEFINITELY NOT A SCHOLAR OF THE BIBLE BUT POSSIBLY A JEW.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A student who finished the Midrash at age 15 was chosen by a Rabbi

and personally groomed over the next 15 years by the Rabbi until he was 30 years old.

Samuel may have been a Talmidim Jew but JESUS was schooled by GOD THE FATHER.

That is why it was said about JESUS :

Joh 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.

15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine,

whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--Mr 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
-- Mt 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
--Mt 22:33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
Mr 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

======================

daqq
February 7th, 2016, 06:17 PM
DAGGNAMIT, WHAT KIND OF BALONEY IS THIS ?????

YOU ARE DEFINITELY NOT A SCHOLAR OF THE BIBLE BUT POSSIBLY A JEW.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A student who finished the Midrash at age 15 was chosen by a Rabbi

and personally groomed over the next 15 years by the Rabbi until he was 30 years old.

Samuel may have been a Talmidim Jew but JESUS was schooled by GOD THE FATHER.

That is why it was said about JESUS :

Joh 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.

15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine,

whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--Mr 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
-- Mt 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
--Mt 22:33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
Mr 1:22 And they were astonished at his doctrine: for he taught them as one that had authority, and not as the scribes.

======================

How can anyone know what you are harping on about if you do not say what it is you think is baloney? As for John 7:14 it is the midst of Sukkot so why do you not consider this in your errant futurist timeline concoctions? You deny the work of Messiah when you ignore what he has fulfilled in your futurist doctrine. 17-18 Ethanim-Tishri is exactly five months, (150 days) from the midst of Pesach Sheni which Yeshua spent in the Galilees feeding the five thousand. John 2:13 is the primary Pesach while John 6:4 is Pesach Sheni one month later. Yeshua did not need to be in Yerushalaim in John 6:4 because he had already observed the primary Passover the month before according to the Torah. This has implications deep into the Noachic Flood dates which were ALL fulfilled in the ministry of Messiah Yeshua. The five months between the midst of Pesach Sheni, (2/17, Gen 7:11) and the midst of Sukkot, (7/17, Gen 8:4, Jhn 7:14) also fulfill the five months of Rev 9:1-10.

http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/revolution180.gif

John 6:1-10 ~ With these things Yeshua departed Peran to the sea of the Tiberiados of the Galil. And a great multitude followed him because they saw the signs which were done upon the sick. Yeshua therefore ascended to the mountain; and there he sat with his talmidim, and the Pesach was at hand, the feast-festival of the Yhudim, (Pesach Sheni). Yeshua then lifting up his eyes, and seeing that has come to him a great multitude, he says to Filippos, (the horseman) "From where shall we buy bread that these may eat?" But this he said to prove him; for he knew himself what was about to be done. The horseman Filippos answers him: "Two hundred denarion of bread would not suffice for them that each might take a little." Says to him one from his talmidim, Andreas, ("the Man") brother of Shimon Petros: "There is a young lad here which has five loaves of barley and two opsarion, (roasted fish) but what are these among so many?" Yeshua then gives command: "Poiesate tous anthropous anapesein!" which is to say, "Make the anthropon-men fall down!" (Rev 9:1) There was moreover a large area of grass in that place. Thus reclined the andres-men, (for the anthropon-man-faced among them were fallen) the number, as it were, five thousand.

RBBI
February 7th, 2016, 07:47 PM
Is it any wonder that the 144,000 are JEWS (because only they can take off the Hellenistic veil covering the Word), and isn't a wonder the RCC and their indoctrinated minions didn't translate them to be "Christians" as well? Peace

daqq
February 7th, 2016, 08:02 PM
Is it any wonder that the 144,000 are JEWS (because only they can take off the Hellenistic veil covering the Word)

Yeshayahu-Isaiah 66:7-8 ~ Before she was in labor she gave birth. Before her pain came she delivered a man-child. Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things? Can the Land be made to bring forth in one day? Can the nation be brought forth at one time? For as soon as Zion was in labor she gave birth to her children, (144000 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4573529&postcount=18)). :)

OCTOBER23
February 7th, 2016, 08:33 PM
Don't Try to Side Track me with the Timing of the Passover

because I am an Ashkenazi JEW .

You are trying to DECEIVE these Christian Posters by SAYING

that JESUS was TALMIDICALLY TRAINED BY A HUMAN RABBI AND YOU KNOW

VERY WELL THAT GOD THE FATHER TRAINED HIM AS THE SCRIPTURES SAY.

--GOD WILL JUDGE YOU IF YOU CONTINUE TRYING TO DECEIVE CHRISTIANS.--

daqq
February 7th, 2016, 09:28 PM
Don't Try to Side Track me with the Timing of the Passover

because I am an Ashkenazi JEW .

You are trying to DECEIVE these Christian Posters by SAYING

that JESUS was TALMIDICALLY TRAINED BY A HUMAN RABBI AND YOU KNOW

VERY WELL THAT GOD THE FATHER TRAINED HIM AS THE SCRIPTURES SAY.

--GOD WILL JUDGE YOU IF YOU CONTINUE TRYING TO DECEIVE CHRISTIANS.--

Where did I say any such thing? Let the false accuser be judged accordingly. And do you mean talmidically or Talmudically trained? Talmid simply means disciple and is not a reference to the Talmud; and for your information Talmud, (both) came several hundred of years AFTER the advent of Messiah. :duh: You really have no clue when and where Yeshua was "trained" because of your false futurist paradigm:

Mark 1:13
13. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of the Satan, and was with the therion-wild beasts, [Hos 13:7-8, Dan 7:2-7, Rev 13:1-2] and the angels ministered unto him.

OCTOBER23
February 8th, 2016, 04:10 AM
dagg

TALMIDIM REQUIRES A HUMAN RABBI TO TRAIN YOU

Why would YESHUA Stretch forth his hand to his TALMIDIN ?????????

NO RABBI TRAINED HIM.

GOD TRAINED HIM AND NOT A MAN

YOU ARE GIVING THE HONOUR TO MAN AND NOT GOD.....:mad:

-----------------------------
Yeshua has four brethren: are they not Yakob, and Yosef, and Shimon, and Yhudas? Yet while Yeshua speaks to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stand without, desiring to speak with him. And someone says to him, Behold, your mother and your brethren stand without, desiring to speak with you. But he answers and says: Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And Yeshua stretches forth his hand toward his talmidim, and says, Behold, my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in the heavens, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother, (Matthew 12:46-50).

Yeshua stretches forth his hand toward his talmidim:

daqq
February 8th, 2016, 04:30 AM
dagg

TALMIDIM REQUIRES A HUMAN RABBI TO TRAIN YOU

Why would YESHUA Stretch forth his hand to his TALMIDIN ?????????

NO RABBI TRAINED HIM.

GOD TRAINED HIM AND NOT A MAN

YOU ARE GIVING THE HONOUR TO MAN AND NOT GOD.....:mad:

-----------------------------
Yeshua has four brethren: are they not Yakob, and Yosef, and Shimon, and Yhudas? Yet while Yeshua speaks to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stand without, desiring to speak with him. And someone says to him, Behold, your mother and your brethren stand without, desiring to speak with you. But he answers and says: Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And Yeshua stretches forth his hand toward his talmidim, and says, Behold, my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in the heavens, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother, (Matthew 12:46-50).

Yeshua stretches forth his hand toward his talmidim:

Yes, that is correct, Yeshua stretches forth his hand toward his talmidim-disciples:

Matthew 12:49 OJB
49 And stretching out his hand upon his talmidim, Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach said, Hinei, my Em and my achim.
http://biblehub.com/ojb/matthew/12.htm (http://biblehub.com/ojb/matthew/12.htm)

Matthew 12:49 ISR
49 And having stretched out His hand toward His taught ones, He said, “See My mother and My brothers!
http://biblehub.com/isr/matthew/12.htm (http://biblehub.com/isr/matthew/12.htm)

Am I now evil just because you say so? Let the false accuser be judged according to the judgment he himself has meted out or judge not lest you be judged accordingly.

:sheep:

OCTOBER23
February 8th, 2016, 04:41 AM
Daqq said,

his talmidim-disciples
==================
hahahaha

- WRONG -

There is NO Talmidim Training here .

JESUS spoke in Parables and the UNLEARNED Disciples did NOT Understand.

ONLY THE COMFORTER / HOLY SPIRIT Gave them UNDERSTANDING.

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
------------------------------------------

Ac 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

daqq
February 8th, 2016, 05:22 AM
Daqq said,

his talmidim-disciples
==================
hahahaha

- WRONG -

There is NO Talmidim Training here .

JESUS spoke in Parables and the UNLEARNED Disciples did NOT Understand.

ONLY THE COMFORTER / HOLY SPIRIT Gave them UNDERSTANDING.

Joh 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
------------------------------------------

Ac 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

I see, so now to save your own skin you are willing to go so far as to deny that Yeshua was ever even a Rabbi-Teacher with twelve talmidim-disciples whom he taught during his ministry. You see how this goes in the kingdom of Elohim? Your judgment has already arrived and so soon you begin to blaspheme and curse yourself. Tisk, tisk. :)

Matthew 13:51-52
51. [Yeshua says] Have you understood all these things? They say to him, Yea, Master.
52. And he says to them, Therefore every scribe who is discipled into the kingdom of the heavens is like unto a master of a house, who brings forth out of his treasure things new and old.

:sheep:

OCTOBER23
February 8th, 2016, 04:41 PM
DAGGSUNT,

GIMMEE A BREAK.

JESUS WAS NEVER A RABBI , IN FACT HE SAID CALL NO MAN RABBI

JESUS WAS THE LORD AND MASTER WHICH IS HIGHER THAN ANY MAN

Joh 13:14 I your Lord and Master,

Mt 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Mt 23:8 Be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master,

Christ; and all ye are brethren.
=========================

This is a Theology Forum. If you want to discuss and PROVE your Theory

then PROVE IT and let us discuss it

Sure, there are many Webpages saying that JESUS had a Talmidic following

but they are all WRONG.

And I have PROVEN THEM WRONG.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE.

daqq
February 8th, 2016, 05:33 PM
DAGGSUNT,

GIMMEE A BREAK.

JESUS WAS NEVER A RABBI , IN FACT HE SAID CALL NO MAN RABBI

JESUS WAS THE LORD AND MASTER WHICH IS HIGHER THAN ANY MAN

Joh 13:14 I your Lord and Master,

Mt 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Mt 23:8 Be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master,

Christ; and all ye are brethren.
=========================

This is a Theology Forum. If you want to discuss and PROVE your Theory

then let us discuss it and NOT GO AROUND CONDEMNING PEOPLE FOR THEIR OPINIONS.

Sure, there are many Webpages saying that JESUS had a Talmidic following

but they are all WRONG.

And I have PROVEN THEM WRONG.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

I did not condemn you but rather you are condemning yourself for condemning me without a cause; and no doubt the Father will continue to harden your heart, O Pharaoh, until the time when He decides you are ready to be broken, for only then will your new man come forth being truly in Messiah.

As for your other comments you have not proven anything.
Didaskalos-Teacher is the interpretation of Rabbi-Teacher:

John 1:38
38 στραφεὶς δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ θεασάμενος αὐτοὺς ἀκολουθοῦντας λέγει αὐτοῖς Τί ζητεῖτε; οἱ δὲ εἶπαν αὐτῷ Ῥαββεί, ὃ λέγεται μεθερμηνευόμενον Διδάσκαλε, ποῦ μένεις;
http://biblehub.com/text/john/1-38.htm (http://biblehub.com/text/john/1-38.htm)

John 1:38
38 And Yeshua having turned, and having beheld them following, says to them, What seek you? And they say to him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Didaskale-Teacher) where do you abide?

According to the scripture Didaskalos = Rabbi

John 13:13
13 ὑμεῖς φωνεῖτέ με Ὁ διδάσκαλος καί Ὁ κύριος, καὶ καλῶς λέγετε, εἰμὶ γάρ.
http://biblehub.com/text/john/13-13.htm (http://biblehub.com/text/john/13-13.htm)

John 13:13
13 You call me the Didaskalos-Teacher and the Master, and rightly you say, because I am.

John 20:16
16 λέγει αὐτῇ Ἰησοῦς Μαριάμ. στραφεῖσα ἐκείνη λέγει αὐτῷ Ἐβραϊστί Ῥαββουνεί ὃ λέγεται Διδάσκαλε.
http://biblehub.com/text/john/20-16.htm (http://biblehub.com/text/john/20-16.htm)

John 20:16
16 Yeshua says to her, Mariam! That one, having converted, says to him in Hebraisti-Aramaic, Rabboni! which is to say, Didaskale-Teacher!

As for the Matthew passages which you have quoted perhaps now you might understand them, but I trow not, O Esau man. :crackup:

OCTOBER23
February 8th, 2016, 05:39 PM
I QUOTE THE BIBLE AND YOU QUOTE SOME PEOPLE WHO CALL JESUS RABBI

WHICH HE TOLD THEM NOT TO DO.

TALK ABOUT A LACK OF BIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING.

Time to do more Hermeneutical and Exegetical studying on your part.

daqq
February 8th, 2016, 06:28 PM
I QUOTE THE BIBLE AND YOU QUOTE SOME PEOPLE WHO CALL JESUS RABBI

WHICH HE TOLD THEM NOT TO DO.

TALK ABOUT A LACK OF BIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING.

Time to do more Hermeneutical and Exegetical studying on your part.

See, the heart continually grows hardened upon hardness. Now you have essentially denied that the Gospel record we know as the Gospel of John is "the Bible" according to your own set standards, (because that is all that I quoted from in my previous post). Skin for skin, the carnal man will deny the truth to save his own skin, and you do exactly that now that you count the Gospel of John as merely "some people". Also you pit one scripture passage against another so as to nullify what you do not want to admit and even at that you employ your own false understanding of those passages to nullify the truth found in the passages you do not like. The tree is known by his fruits, O man, and you are the one revealing your own catastrophic error. To this point you have implied that Yeshua was not a Rabbi-Teacher, did not have talmidim-disciples, that none of his followers even understood a word he said to them, and now you have implied that the Gospel of John is not "the Bible".

As I said: so soon you begin to curse yourself, O Pharaoh. :crackup:

OCTOBER23
February 8th, 2016, 06:30 PM
I WILL LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE.

daqq
February 8th, 2016, 06:40 PM
I WILL LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE.


Don't Try to Side Track me with the Timing of the Passover

because I am an Ashkenazi JEW .

Yeshua Says: Every plant which my heavenly Father has not planted shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch, (Mattityahu 15:13-14).

:sheep:

OCTOBER23
February 8th, 2016, 06:59 PM
Whatever.
JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED

I have studied the bible diligently for 45 years
so your self-righteous indignation means nothing to me.

Either put up your proofs or admit that you are WRONG.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 11:19

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say,

'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'

But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

- How can JESUS be a Talmidic Jewish Rabbi when the Pharisees Rejected him outwardly.

:think:

daqq
February 8th, 2016, 07:23 PM
Whatever.
JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED

I have studied the bible diligently for 45 years
so your self-righteous indignation means nothing to me.

Either put up your proofs or admit that you are WRONG.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 11:19

The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say,

'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'

But wisdom is proved right by her deeds."

- How can JESUS be a Talmidic Jewish Rabbi when the Pharisees Rejected him outwardly.

:think:

Funny how you came to me in this thread with judgment and now you cry, "JUDGE NOT LEST YE BE JUDGED", when you are shown to have brought down your own false judgment upon your own head. :crackup:

Yeshua Says: Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which has ten talents: for unto every one that has shall be given, and he shall have abundance, but from him that has not shall be taken away even that which he has, (Mattityahu 25:28-29).

:sheep:

Wick Stick
February 8th, 2016, 07:24 PM
Did you mistake Talmidim (students) for Talmud (teaching)?

All Jewish sects made disciples. Not just Pharisees.

Jarrod

daqq
February 8th, 2016, 07:30 PM
Did you mistake Talmidim (students) for Talmud (teaching)?

All Jewish sects made disciples. Not just Pharisees.

Jarrod

Seems he did, (which I hinted at but he did not answer) which is also why I said that apparently now he seeks only to save his own skin, (reputation) and unfortunately he shows that his reputation is even more important than what is written in the scripture.

daqq
December 12th, 2016, 11:47 PM
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the world: the one following me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the Light of the Life, (John 8:12). Yeshua Says, Yet a little while is the Light with you: walk while you have the Light, lest the darkness come upon you; for the one walking in the darkness knows not where he goes. While you have the Light, faithfully-trust into the Light so that you may become Sons of Light: these things Yeshua spoke, and departed, and concealed himself from them, (John 12:35-36). Yeshua Says, I am Light having come into the world, so that all who are faithfully-trusting into me shall not abide in the darkness, (John 12:46).

Watching I was in the visions of the night, and behold, one like unto a son of man, and he said to his talmidim, Let us pass|over to the other side of Kinnerot, (that is the little lake in the sides of the north). And they brought him even as if he was with them in the vessel; and there were also other small vessels with him in them. And there arose a mighty storm of wind upon the sea, with thunders, and lightnings, and the waves were crashing into the vessel; so much so that the vessel was filling up from the billows of the raging sea. And one stood by me, Andreo, (that is, Andreo the Man), and he said to me, What do you see? And I answered, I see talmidim of the Master in a vessel on the stormy sea, and the vessel is in great peril, about to be overcome with the billows of the stormy sea; but the Meshiah is nowhere to be seen. And Andreo the Manfaced said to me, The Meshiah is at rest in the stern of the vessel, upon the headrest pillow of the Stone: then he said to me, Come and see! So we went, and I looked, and I saw that the talmidim were crying out, saying, Master, where are you? Do you not care that we perish? And, behold, at the two points of the mast, the magnificent blue flame of Uriel suddenly began to shine brilliantly in the night. And Andreo the Manfaced said to me again, What do you see? And I said, I see the mast for the sail now aglow in bright blue lamps, like brilliant auras in the night, which the sailors and mariners of the Greeks call Castor and Pollux (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elmo%27s_fire): two lamps of the blue flame of Uriel on the heads of the Waω: a lamp and a lamp at each of the two extremities making the sign of the Waω. And Andreo the Manfaced said to me, The Light of the Kosmos is fully awakened, and has risen to the top of the mast in the sign of the Waω to censure the winds and the raging of the waters: even as Moshe with the rod of Elohim lifted up in the sign of the Waω when bnei Yisrael passed through the Sea of Reeds: and the sign of the Stake enlightens the way through the night. And then I heard the sound of a voice like many waters, saying, Shalom, be still. And the wind died, and the raging waves ceased, and there was great calm: and Lake Gen-Netsaret was placid and tranquil, as pure as liquid crystal, a sea of tranquility having been mingled with fire.

Yeshua Says, Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the Land. Blessed are they which hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see Elohim. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of Elohim. Blessed are they which are persecuted for the sake of righteousness: for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in the heavens, for likewise they persecuted the prophets which were before you. You are the salt of the Land: but if the salt has lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. You are the light of the world: a city that is set on a mountain cannot be hidden, (Matthew 5:3-14).

And by and by Yeshua compelled his talmidim to embark up into a vessel, and to go before him to the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone. But the vessel was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with stormy waves; for the wind was contrary. And I watched in the visions of the night, and behold, in the fourth watch of the night, Yeshua was coming toward the vessel, walking upon the sea. And when the talmidim saw him traversing upon the face of the sea, they were greatly troubled, saying, It is a phantasma! and they cried out for fear. And I said to one who stood by, that is, Philippos, (he is fond of hippos-horses), Adoni, what is a phantasma? And he said to me, Know you not what this is? And I said, no Adoni, and he said, A phantasma is an orb of light which the sailors and the mariners call Ghost Lights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning), and they can destroy both the vessel and the carcass of a man, but this is not quite that: then he said to me, Come and see! So we went, and I looked, and behold, a magnificent orb of brilliant white Light, in the form of a Dove, brooding upon the face of the waters: and the brilliant orb of Light was approaching the vessel. And all the talmidim saw, and knew not that it was the Master, and they were terrified, crying out, It is a phantasma! But straightway Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am! take heart, fear not. And Peter answered him, saying, Master, if it is you, summon me to come out unto you upon the water. And he said, Come forth! Watching I was, and Philippos the horse-lover says to me, What do you see? And I said, I see Peter like a brilliant white orb of light disembarking his vessel to go out upon the water to the Master. And Philippos the face of an eagle says to me, Watch! And I beheld, and I saw when Peter disembarked the vessel, and he walked upon the water to go unto Yeshua. But when Kephas looked to the howling wind he became fearful; and beginning to sink, Peter cried out, saying, Adoni, save me! And immediately Yeshua stretched forth his power and snatched him up, and said to him, O you of little faith, why did you stand duplicate? (that is to say, wavering, like Thomas Didymos, a doubting twofold twin). And when they were come into the vessel, the wind ceased, and the sea became placid and clear, as clear as liquid crystal, like a sea of transparent glass having been mingled with fire.

daqq
December 13th, 2016, 12:50 AM
Then I understood this:

Acts 28:11 KJV
11 And after three months we departed in a ship of Alexandria, which had wintered in the isle, whose sign was Castor and Pollux.

:Nineveh:

freelight
December 13th, 2016, 12:53 AM
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the world: the one following me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the Light of the Life, (John 8:12). Yeshua Says, Yet a little while is the Light with you: walk while you have the Light, lest the darkness come upon you; for the one walking in the darkness knows not where he goes. While you have the Light, faithfully-trust into the Light so that you may become Sons of Light: these things Yeshua spoke, and departed, and concealed himself from them, (John 12:35-36). Yeshua Says, I am Light having come into the world, so that all who are faithfully-trusting into me shall not abide in the darkness, (John 12:46).

Watching I was in the visions of the night, and behold, one like unto a son of man, and he said to his talmidim, Let us pass|over to the other side of the sea. And they brought him even as if he was with them in the vessel, (and there were also other small vessels with him in them). And there arose a mighty storm of wind upon the sea, with thunders, and lightnings, and the waves were crashing into the vessel; so much so that the vessel was filling up from the billows of the raging sea. And one stood by me, Andreas, (that is, Andreas the Man), and he said to me, What do you see? And I answered, I see talmidim of the Master in a vessel on the stormy sea, and the vessel is in great peril, about to be overcome with the billows of the sea; but the Master is nowhere to be seen. And Andreas the Manfaced said to me, The Master is at rest in the stern of the vessel, upon the headrest: then he said to me, Come and see! So we went, and I looked, and I saw that the talmidim were crying out, saying, O Master, where are you? Do you not care that we perish? And, behold, at the three points of the mast: the magnificent blue flame of Uriel suddenly began to shine brilliantly in the night. And Andreas the Manfaced said to me again, What do you see? And I said, I see the mast of the vessel now aglow in bright blue aura lights, which the sailors and mariners of the Greeks call Castor and Pollux (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Elmo%27s_fire), and yet I see not two lamps of fire but three: one lamp at the head of the mast, and another lamp and a lamp at each of the two extremities of the crossbeam of the sail (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b2/a4/b8/b2a4b89d640a694c1b67a8106869d7ca.jpg), making the sign of Tav, even as Moshe did with the rod of Elohim lifted up when bney Yisrael crossed through the Sea of Reeds; and the sign of the Tav enlightens the way through the night. And Andreas the Manfaced said to me, The Light of the world has fully awakened and is risen to the top of the mast, in the sign of the Tav, to rebuke the wind and the sea with its billowing waves. And then I heard the sound of a voice like many waters, saying, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was great calm, and the sea became placid and tranquil, as clear as liquid crystal having been mingled with fire.

Yeshua Says, Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the Land. Blessed are they which hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see Elohim. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of Elohim. Blessed are they which are persecuted for the sake of righteousness: for theirs is the kingdom of the heavens. Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in the heavens, for likewise they persecuted the prophets which were before you. You are the salt of the Land: but if the salt has lost its savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. You are the light of the world: a city that is set on a mountain cannot be hidden, (Matthew 5:3-14).

And by and by Yeshua compelled his talmidim to embark up into a vessel, and to go before him to the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone. But the vessel was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with stormy waves; for the wind was contrary. And I watched in the visions of the night, and behold, in the fourth watch of the night, Yeshua was coming toward the vessel, walking upon the sea. And when the talmidim saw him traversing upon the face of the sea, they were greatly troubled, saying, It is a phantasma! and they cried out for fear. And I said to one who stood by, that is, Philippos, (he is fond of hippos-horses), Adoni, what is a phantasma? And he said to me, Know you not what this is? And I said, no Adoni, and he said, A phantasma is an orb of light which the sailors and the mariners call Ghost Lights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning), and they can destroy both the vessel and the carcass of a man, but this is not quite that: then he said to me, Come and see! So we went, and I looked, and behold, a magnificent orb of brilliant white Light, in the form of a Dove, brooding upon the face of the waters: and the brilliant orb of Light was approaching the vessel. And all the talmidim saw, and knew not that it was the Master, and they were terrified, crying out, It is a phantasma! But straightway Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am! take heart, fear not. And Peter answered him, saying, Master, if it is you, summon me to come out unto you upon the water. And he said, Come forth! Watching I was, and Philippos the horse-lover says to me, What do you see? And I said, I see Peter like a brilliant white orb of light disembarking his vessel to go out upon the water to the Master. And Philippos the face of an eagle says to me, Watch! And I beheld, and I saw when Peter disembarked the vessel, and he walked upon the water to go unto Yeshua. But when Kephas looked to the howling wind he became fearful; and beginning to sink, Peter cried out, saying, Adoni, save me! And immediately Yeshua stretched forth his power and snatched him up, and said to him, O you of little faith, why did you stand duplicate? (that is to say, wavering, like Thomas Didymos, a doubting twofold twin). And when they were come into the vessel, the wind ceased, and the Sea of Gennesaret became placid and clear, as clear as liquid crystal, like a sea of transparent glass having been mingled with fire.

Hi Daqq,

Can you quote the reference for the non-canonical texts in your arrangement above. Thanks :)

daqq
December 13th, 2016, 02:14 AM
Hi Daqq,

Can you quote the reference for the non-canonical texts in your arrangement above. Thanks :)

That's just little ole me in my journeys through the Word. :)

However the quote from Yeshua is, imo, exactly what is in the text:

Matthew 14:26-27 W/H
26 οι δε μαθηται ιδοντες αυτον επι της θαλασσης περιπατουντα εταραχθησαν λεγοντες οτι φαντασμα [phantasma] εστιν και απο του φοβου εκραξαν
27 ευθυς δε ελαλησεν ο ιησους αυτοις λεγων θαρσειτε εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε

In Matthew 9:2, where Yeshua again uses tharseo, but with "child", (teknon), we see that many translations find no reason to necessarily render it in the order in which the statement is made, (unlike what they do with the passage above where they also render εγω ειμι as, "It is I", instead of, "I am").

Matthew 9:2 KJV
2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

See how "Son", (which should be child, because it is teknon), comes first in the above KJV rendering? It is not that way in the Greek text but rather the order is the same as Matthew 14:27 where tharseo, ("be of good cheer" or "take heart"), is also used:

Matthew 9:2 W/H
2 και ιδου προσεφερον αυτω παραλυτικον επι κλινης βεβλημενον και ιδων ο ιησους την πιστιν αυτων ειπεν τω παραλυτικω θαρσει τεκνον αφιενται σου αι αμαρτιαι

Word order is not so critical in Greek as it is in English but is rather pretty often at the discretion of the translator(s). However what they do with ego eimi really seems to be uncalled for in Matthew 14:27.

θαρσει τεκνον αφιενται σου αι αμαρτιαι
"Child, (τεκνον), take heart, (θαρσει), your sins are sent away"

θαρσειτε εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε
"I am! (εγω ειμι), take heart, (θαρσειτε), fear not"

Do you see what I mean? If you read it this way then in Matthew 14:26, where the disciples are in fear, crying out, (no doubt saying), "A phantasma!" or "It is a phantasma!", Yeshua immediately answers them with an emphatic statement, saying, "I am!, (but) take heart, fear not." It really is all about your mindset. These things are placed in the setting of a stormy night on the sea for just such reasons; for every sailor and mariner in those times would have immediately known that these things clearly do not speak of a literal physical human being literally walking across the surface of the sea. Ball lightning is a very true and real phenomenon which was well known in ancient times, and especially among sailors and mariners, (and it is indeed fearful because it can explode, sink a small ship, and can kill a human being who comes into contact with it). I recently read a story about the first ever film footage of ball lightning actually being formed, and was astounded to find in the article that ball lightning can even be formed when lightning strikes soil. The article stated that the ball lightning was formed out of VAPORIZED SOIL. The first thing that came to my mind was that the first man Adam was formed of DUST, (vaporized soil?), from the adamah-soil. "The research also provides the first evidence that the elusive glowing orbs form due to vapourised dirt", (Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2542615/Scientists-capture-footage-ball-lightning.html)). I'm not saying all ball lightning forms the same way but in this case it was astonishing to me that vaporized soil and the intense energy of lightning is capable of creating ball lightning. IMO it seems that the authors of the writings used such imagery because such things are part of the natural creation of Elohim and all things of His creation are given to us for examples of spiritual and supernal truths. This is precisely how they thought, as shown so often throughout the writings, and Paul himself likewise gives a short discourse on such thinking in Romans 1:20-25, (the invisible things of Elohim are seen through His visible creation). And when you think about it, contemplate it for a while, no doubt, Yeshua is the Light having come into the world; the Light of every man, the Light of Life, ehem, the Light. But as I said elsewhere; if even this little bit above herein be true, then the typical modern churchgoing mind truly has no idea what is being said in the apostolic writings. :)

daqq
December 13th, 2016, 03:14 AM
And I hope no one takes it wrong; the above was not suggesting that Messiah is "ball lightning" but rather that this is the imagery from the natural creation which is used in the above occasion, (Matthew 14:26-27). However he does appear to confirm that he is indeed something like a "phantasma", and such is not the same as a spirit; for a spirit cannot be seen, and a spirit has neither flesh nor bone nor material matter, (a reference to Luke 24:39 where they render εγω ειμι as "It is I" once again, lol). This therefore would also mean that the disciples are certainly not perceiving Messiah as being on-par or equal to the Almighty, (who is non-corporeal Spirit and cannot be contained). ;)

marhig
December 13th, 2016, 03:48 AM
That's just little ole me in my journeys through the Word. :)

However the quote from Yeshua is, imo, exactly what is in the text:

Matthew 14:26-27 W/H
26 οι δε μαθηται ιδοντες αυτον επι της θαλασσης περιπατουντα εταραχθησαν λεγοντες οτι φαντασμα [phantasma] εστιν και απο του φοβου εκραξαν
27 ευθυς δε ελαλησεν ο ιησους αυτοις λεγων θαρσειτε εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε

In Matthew 9:2, where Yeshua again uses tharseo, but with "child", (teknon), we see that many translations find no reason to necessarily render it in the order in which the statement is made, (unlike what they do with the passage above where they also render εγω ειμι as, "It is I", instead of, "I am").

Matthew 9:2 KJV
2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

See how "Son", (which should be child, because it is teknon), comes first in the above KJV rendering? It is not that way in the Greek text but rather the order is the same as Matthew 27:14 where tharseo, ("be of good cheer" or "take heart"), is also used:

Matthew 9:2 W/H
2 και ιδου προσεφερον αυτω παραλυτικον επι κλινης βεβλημενον και ιδων ο ιησους την πιστιν αυτων ειπεν τω παραλυτικω θαρσει τεκνον αφιενται σου αι αμαρτιαι

Word order is not so critical in Greek as it is in English but is rather pretty often at the discretion of the translator(s). However what they do with ego eimi really seems to be uncalled for in Matthew 14:27.

θαρσει τεκνον αφιενται σου αι αμαρτιαι
"Child, (τεκνον), take heart, (θαρσει), your sins are sent away"

θαρσειτε εγω ειμι μη φοβεισθε
"I am! (εγω ειμι), take heart, (θαρσειτε), fear not"

Do you see what I mean? If you read it this way then in Matthew 14:26, where the disciples are in fear, crying out, (no doubt saying), "A phantasma!" or "It is a phantasma!", Yeshua immediately answers them with an emphatic statement, saying, "I am!, (but) take heart, fear not." It really is all about your mindset. These things are placed in the setting of a stormy night on the sea for just such reasons; for every sailor and mariner in those times would have immediately known that these things clearly do not speak of a literal physical human being literally walking across the surface of the sea. Ball lightning is a very true and real phenomenon which was well known in ancient times, and especially among sailors and mariners, (and it is indeed fearful because it can explode, sink a small ship, and can kill a human being who comes into contact with it). I recently read a story about the first ever film footage of ball lightning actually being formed, and was astounded to find in the article that ball lightning can even be formed when lightning strikes soil. The article stated that the ball lightning was formed out of VAPORIZED SOIL. The first thing that came to my mind was that the first man Adam was formed of DUST, (vaporized soil?), from the adamah-soil. "The research also provides the first evidence that the elusive glowing orbs form due to vapourised dirt", (Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2542615/Scientists-capture-footage-ball-lightning.html)). I'm not saying all ball lightning forms the same way but in this case it was astonishing to me that vaporized soil and the intense energy of lightning is capable of creating ball lightning. IMO it seems that the authors of the writings used such imagery because such things are part of the natural creation of Elohim and all things of His creation are given to us for examples of spiritual and supernal truths. This is precisely how they thought, as shown so often throughout the writings, and Paul himself likewise gives a short discourse on such thinking in Romans 1:20-25, (the invisible things of Elohim are seen through His visible creation). And when you think about it, contemplate it for a while, no doubt, Yeshua is the Light having come into the world; the Light of every man, the Light of Life, ehem, the Light. But as I said elsewhere; if even this little bit above herein be true, then the typical modern churchgoing mind truly has no idea what is being said in the apostolic writings. :)

Matthew 24:27

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I see this verse and others very differently to the way many others see it, what do you see in it? If you don't mind saying? Do you see this naturally it spiritually?

Without going into depth here, i see Jesus is the light, and the light shall come and shine from the east to the west the east is where the sun rises. when we see the light, the son rises in our hearts. And the light comes suddenly like lightening. But I believe Jesus is talking in a metaphor, as I believe he did regarding coming in a cloud. I would go on but here isn't the right place.

daqq
December 13th, 2016, 01:46 PM
Matthew 24:27

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

I see this verse and others very differently to the way many others see it, what do you see in it? If you don't mind saying? Do you see this naturally it spiritually?

Without going into depth here, i see Jesus is the light, and the light shall come and shine from the east to the west the east is where the sun rises. when we see the light, the son rises in our hearts. And the light comes suddenly like lightening. But I believe Jesus is talking in a metaphor, as I believe he did regarding coming in a cloud. I would go on but here isn't the right place.

Hi Marhig, :)

I don't see why we cannot bring that conversation here because it does pertain to things Yeshua Says, just as you quoted, and I do remember having some of this conversation already in another thread which I will post again below. Words have nuances that most often may only be understood from the context in which they are found. In the passage you quote, according to the KJV, Yeshua says that his coming shall be as the lightning shines from the east even unto the west. But lightning never travels that far across the sky, that is, from the east all the way to the west; no, but rather, lightning generally stays within the cloud cover when it travels horizontally across the sky. Likewise Satan is said to fall like lightning, which is from the heavens to the earth, (in appearance), which is sudden, immediate, and most importantly crooked and bent. Yeshua does not speak of lightning in the passage which you quoted and its companion passages. Both the rays of the morning rising sun and the lightning are beams of light: one is straight but the other is crooked and bent. The brilliant ray of light from the rising sun does indeed traverse across the sky from the east, (rising sun), to as far as the west. The sun however rises steadily and progressively as the day wears on, through the hours of the daylight, until the sun reaches its apex or zenith in the sky and begins its downward trek into the shades of the west. This is what I believe the Master is saying in the passage you quoted; for the "Daystar" is the sun, and that is what is used in symbolism for the "Daystar rising up in your hearts". It is not immediate but constant and increasingly more powerful through time, (like the sun rising up to the top of the day at noon). It is a slower but steady coming forth of the Light of Messiah, which again, is using the symbolism of the creation to expound supernal things, (in this case the celestial creation). Here below is the conversation from another thread, (only the first reply was to you and the rest to others therein).


And it starts with the first light, daybreak, and thats the revelation that Jesus is the Christ. Then as the light dawns and the day progresses and as the son rises within our hearts and as we start to receive progressive revelation we start to see clearer, we start to rise up as walk in the noonday with the brightest light of God Christ Jesus, and we see the picture clearly and we're not looking through a glass darkly anymore. And we are brought from darkness into the light through Christ by the holy spirit of God.


Amen, and that is why this, Luke 17:22-24, actually says this:

Luke 17:22-24
22 Moreover he said unto the disciples, The days will come when you shall desire to see [ιδειν] one of the days of the Son of man, and you shall not see it [οψεσθε].
23 And they shall say to you, "Look, here!" or "See, over there!", go not after them, nor follow them:
24 for just as the ray of light shines out of the one part under the heavens unto the other part under the heavens, radiating brightly; so also shall the Son of man be in his day.

It is not a reference to "lightning" but to he whose name is Anatole Tsemach-Branch:

Zechariah 6:12 KJV
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; [Tsemach] and he shall grow up [tsamach] out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:

Zechariah 6:12 LXX-Septuagint
12 και ερεις προς αυτον ταδε λεγει κυριος παντοκρατωρ ιδου ανηρ ανατολη [Anatole : Luke 1:78 : Day Spring : Rising Light (Day Star Rising : φωσφορος ανατειλη : 2 Peter 1:19)] ονομα αυτω και υποκατωθεν αυτου ανατελει και οικοδομησει τον οικον κυριου


Yes, it is quite comical, (lol), how people imagine that lighting comes forth out of the east, and travels as far as unto the west, despite the very nature of the facts that occur right around them in the natural creation all of the time and are plain for all to see, ehem, for those with eyes to see.

Matthew 24:27 KJV
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, [anatole rising light] and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Luke 10:18 KJV
18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

It would not be surprising to see the strictly physical literalist futurists such as yourself even go so far as to conjure up misunderstood science articles to prove that lightning travels across the sky from the east to the west more often that it travels up and down between the earth and heavens. Such is the buffoonery of enforcing dogma and paradigm onto the text and the old mantra that "ye olde king Jimmy and his court absolutely must have been inspired because God would not have allowed there not to be a perfect text in ENGLISH", (so that you of course need not actually study because, let's face it, you have your own life to live and bills to pay, [lol]). :)


A crooked and perverse generation, whose father is the devil, and the lusts of their father they do; for he was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him: when he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own; for he is a liar and the father of it.

http://www.livescience.com/images/i/000/055/035/original/survive-lightning.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&fit=inside%7C660:
http://www.livescience.com/38313-how-to-survive-a-lightning-strike.html

In this manner shall the Son of Man be in his day:

http://cdn.paper4pc.com/images/desert-sunrise-wallpaper-1.jpg


Here is another form of ball lightning caught on film where it is generated from within the clouds of a strong thunder storm. It is a very short clip, (one minute), but notice how the typical lightning strikes are within the cloud cover, (except for the ball lighting discharge), the lightning travels horizontally in the sky just as any typical thunder storm: it stays within the cloud cover and does not travel "from as far as the east unto the west", (and the ball lighting being discharged, from a lightning strike out of the clouds down to the earth, is quite amazing, however, this kind of ball lighting does not always travel at such a high rate of speed and could just as easily descend onto the surface of water and travel across the water for some distance, [i.e. the sea of Galilee]).


https://youtu.be/hF-kuB9pBT0
http://nautil.us/blog/a-new-explanation-for-one-of-the-strangest-occurrences-in-nature-ball-lightning

daqq
December 13th, 2016, 04:43 PM
Hi Daqq,

Can you quote the reference for the non-canonical texts in your arrangement above. Thanks :)

Philippos, he is fond of horses, (for that is the meaning of his name), like those of Revelation 6:1-8. And he is from the north, that is Bethsaida, and further north is the city of Caesarea Philippi which is adjacent to the ancient city of Dan, (face of an eagle). Uriel is the captain over the stars, (and thus his light is white and blue, and he is of the four faces of Phanuel-Pnuel-Pniel, Gen 32:28-31). Phanuel is one of the four Angels of the Presence, (and Phanuel has four faces: Sariel-Yistrael, Raguel, Ramiel, and Uriel, [Asaryalalyur of Enoch 10:1-2 is a compound containing Saryal and Uryal, which are Sariel-YiSrael and Uriel]). Phanuel-Uriel is one like unto an eagle, (Uriel | Virtual Jewish Library (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0020_0_20233.html)).

Revelation 4:6-7
6 And before the throne is a sea of glass like to crystal, and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes before and behind:
7 And the first living creature is like a lion, and the second living creature is like a calf, and the third living creature has the countenance-face like a man, and the fourth living creature is like an eagle flying.

Revelation 6:1-7
1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one from the four living creatures saying as with a voice of thunder, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, Come and see.
4 And another horse came forth, a red horse: and to him that sat thereon it was given to take peace from the earth, and that they should slay one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5 And when he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying, Come and see: and I watched, and behold, a black horse; and he that sat thereon had a balance-beam in his hand.
6 And I heard as it were a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A measure of wheat for a denarius, and three measures of barley for a denarius; and hurt not the oil and the wine.
7 And when he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, Come and see.

John 1:45-46
45 Philippos finds Nathanael, and says to him, We have found him, of whom Moshe in the Torah, and the Prophets did write, Yeshua son of Yoseph that is from Nazaret.
46 And Nathanael said to him, Can there be any good out of Nazaret? Philippos says to him, Come and see.

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel

daqq
December 19th, 2016, 02:20 AM
Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel

Yeshua Says, He that is mikroteros (the less(er)) among you all; the same shall be megas-great, (Luke 9:48). The talmidim say to Yeshua, We know that you shall go from us: who is it that shall be made great over us? Yeshua says to them, The place from where you did come, to there shall you go: to Yaakob the Tzaddik, for because of him this heavens and earth came into being, (Thomas #12 (http://freelyreceive.net/metalogos/files/th_interlin/th012.html)). Watching I was, and behold, a certain one clothed in the fine linen robe of the Kohen to the foot, having the inkhorn of a writer by his side. :Nineveh:

Notaclue
December 22nd, 2016, 02:16 AM
Quote Originally Posted by daqq
View Post

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel


Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim)



Rev.5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts(lives), and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Do you think Phanuel is one of the four beasts(lives)?


Peace.

Wick Stick
December 22nd, 2016, 02:37 AM
Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)
That's clever, identifying them like that, but isn't it more likely the 7 angelic "names" are rather titles that were passed down? What I mean is... multiple people might be linked to each... and they all might be correct. It isn't a 1-1 correspondence.

daqq
December 22nd, 2016, 03:25 AM
Quote Originally Posted by daqq
View Post

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel


Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim)



Rev.5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts(lives), and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Do you think Phanuel is one of the four beasts(lives)?


Peace.

The book of 1-Enoch says that Phanuel is one of the four Angels of the Presence, (1Enoch 40:1-9 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe074.htm)), and Phanuel is said to be the captain of the Ophanim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phanuel_(angel)), (eyes all around).


Etymology:
The word Ophan means "wheel" in Hebrew. It is a variant of the "aphan", meaning "to revolve, turn" which comes from the Semitic root "phanah", meaning "to look in all directions," or "to look out."

The Semitic root "phanah" is possibly derived from the Aiden "pha'na" meaning: "never in darkness" (coming from pha: "darkness" & na: "without, incapable")which is used to describe all seeing entities such as the Watchers who "never sleep". Likewise, "phanah" was used to describe Semitic deities who were covered in eyes, or who had several faces... When one eye would close, another would open; when one face would sleep, the other was awake. Thus, they were "incapable" of being in the "dark."

The Semitic value of the word has translated even into the Greek language, where "phan" means "to appear, to see" and "aphan" means "to disappear, invisible." In Arabic, "aphan" means to "look here and there", "to seek out counsel" or to "search everywhere." The Akkadian "aphunah" means "to turn this way and that", as a person in distress, not knowing where to place himself, looks about nervously.
http://z8.invisionfree.com/Megadriel/index.php?showtopic=241&st=0&#entry10381349


Phanuel-Penuel being the fourth also has four faces which contain the remaining names given in Enoch 20:1-8 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe023.htm). However the existing Greek fragments do not contain Sarakael, (which is what is found in the Ethiopic Ge'ez), but rather Sariel, (Liber Enoch Graece (http://www.patrologia-lib.ru/apocryph/vetus/enoch.htm)).

Revelation 4:6-8 ASV
6 and before the throne, as it were a sea of glass like unto crystal; and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, four living creatures full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face as of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle.
8 And the four living creatures, having each one of them six wings, are full of eyes round about and within: and they have no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.

The phrases "full of eyes before and behind", (front and back), and "full of eyes round about and within", seem to imply Phanuel-Penuel if not only the Ophanim. Thus we see Seraphim, (six wings), Cherubim, (four faces), and Ophanim, (eyes front and back and all around), all in the same statement concerning the four living beings which are the four Angels of the Presence.

Peace. :)

daqq
December 22nd, 2016, 03:33 AM
That's clever, identifying them like that, but isn't it more likely the 7 angelic "names" are rather titles that were passed down? What I mean is... multiple people might be linked to each... and they all might be correct. It isn't a 1-1 correspondence.

Well, if you simply say Ezra the Kohen and Scribe have you not included the whole Torah?
(Which he rewrote in the new Ashuri script).

And how much else did Ezra write? (I think no one knows for sure).
And I also think he was probably a Naziyr, (which would explain much concerning Isaiah). :)

daqq
December 22nd, 2016, 04:38 AM
Quote Originally Posted by daqq
View Post

Seven holy Elohim-Angels who Watch: (Seven Eyes of YHWH)
1 Sariel-Phanuel : Yisrael (Yaakob)
2 Raguel : Yithro ("His excellency" (father in law of Moshe))
3 Raphael : Tobiyah (Book of Tobit)
4 Remiel : HaNavi Yiremiyahu
5 Uriel : Ezra the Kohen and Scribe (4 Ezra)
6 Gabriel : HaNavi Daniel
7 Miykael : "the Tzaddik" (for whose sake the heavens and the earth came into being)

Four Angels of the Presence : Miykael : Raphael : Gabriel : Phanuel
Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim) : Sariel : Raguel : Remiel : Uriel


Phanuel : ("eyes all around" - leader of the Ophanim)



Rev.5:6. And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts(lives), and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Do you think Phanuel is one of the four beasts(lives)?


Peace.

The reason why I say Sariel-Phanuel (Yaakob-YiSra'el) is because sariy is actually found in that text:

Genesis 32:24-31 KJV
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.

"Your name shall no more be called Yaakob, but YiS(a)ra'el: ["He is S(a)ra'el"] for as a prince [sariy] have you been with Elohim, and with men, and have prevailed."

28 וַיֹּ֗אמֶר vaiyomer [And he said] לֹ֤א lo [not] יַעֲקֹב֙ ya'akov [Yaakob] יֵאָמֵ֥ר ye'amer [shall be called] עוֹד֙ 'od [any longer] שִׁמְךָ֔ shimcha [your name] כִּ֖י ki for אִם־ 'im- [but] יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל Yisra'el [Yis-ra'el] כִּֽי־ ki- [because] שָׂרִ֧יתָ sariyta [as a prince have you been (ta)] עִם־ 'im- [with] אֱלֹהִ֛ים EloHim [Elohim] וְעִם־ ve'im- [and with] אֲנָשִׁ֖ים 'anashim [men] וַתּוּכָֽל׃ vattuchal [and have prevailed].

The Malak is thus very likely Sariy'el-YiSra'el-Phanu'el
And he gives Yaakob his name . . . :)

Notaclue
December 22nd, 2016, 04:39 AM
The book of 1-Enoch says that Phanuel is one of the four Angels of the Presence, (1Enoch 40:1-9 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe074.htm)), and Phanuel is said to be the captain of the Ophanim (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phanuel_(angel)), (eyes all around).



Phanuel-Penuel being the fourth also has four faces which contain the remaining names given in Enoch 20:1-8 (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe023.htm). However the existing Greek fragments do not contain Sarakael, (which is what is found in the Ethiopic Ge'ez), but rather Sariel, (Liber Enoch Graece (http://www.patrologia-lib.ru/apocryph/vetus/enoch.htm)).

Revelation 4:6-8 ASV
6 and before the throne, as it were a sea of glass like unto crystal; and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, four living creatures full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first creature was like a lion, and the second creature like a calf, and the third creature had a face as of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle.
8 And the four living creatures, having each one of them six wings, are full of eyes round about and within: and they have no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.

The phrases "full of eyes before and behind", (front and back), and "full of eyes round about and within", seem to imply Phanuel-Penuel if not only the Ophanim. Thus we see Seraphim, (six wings), Cherubim, (four faces), and Ophanim, (eyes front and back and all around), all in the same statement concerning the four living beings which are the four Angels of the Presence.

Peace. :)


Jn.1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Beginning:

Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arch
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Short Definition: ruler, beginning
Definition: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.
HELPS Word-studies
746 arxḗ properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").


Archangels............Beginning Angels.....


PS.104:24. O LORD, how manifold are thy works! In wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy possessions.


1Cor.1:24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


Rev.3:14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;



Is.11:1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


Peace.

daqq
December 22nd, 2016, 05:48 AM
Jn.1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Beginning:

Original Word: ἀρχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: arch
Phonetic Spelling: (ar-khay')
Short Definition: ruler, beginning
Definition: (a) rule (kingly or magisterial), (b) plur: in a quasi-personal sense, almost: rulers, magistrates, (c) beginning.
HELPS Word-studies
746 arxḗ – properly, from the beginning (temporal sense), i.e. "the initial (starting) point"; (figuratively) what comes first and therefore is chief (foremost), i.e. has the priority because ahead of the rest ("preeminent").


Archangels............Beginning Angels.....


PS.104:24. O LORD, how manifold are thy works! In wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy possessions.


1Cor.1:24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


Rev.3:14. And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

:thumb: So then, the following statement has multiple layered meanings:

Exodus 4:22
22 And you shall say unto Pharaoh, Thus says YHWH, Yisrael is My son, My firstborn:

And everyone who is "in Messiah" is therefore "in Yisrael" and co-firstborn with Messiah:

Hebrews 12:22-23
22 But you are come unto mount Zion, and to the city of the Living Elohim, the heavenly Yerushalem, and to an innumerable company of Angels:
23 To the national assembly and congregation of the firstborn which are written-enrolled in the heavens, and to the Elohim Judge of all, and to the spirits of tzaddikim having been perfected:


Is.11:1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


Peace.

Isaiah 11:1
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Yishai, and a Netzer-Branch shall grow out of his roots:

Isaiah 49:6
6 And he said, It is a light thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Yaakob and to restore the Netziyrei of Yisrael: I will also give you for a light to the Nations, that you may be My Salvation [Yeshuah] unto the end of the earth.

Isaiah 60:21-22
21 All your people shall be tzaddikim: they shall inherit the land for olam, a Netzer-Branch of My planting, (My garden), the work of My hands that I may be glorified.
22 The little one shall be for an eleph, and the small one for a strong nation: I YHWH will hasten it in his time.

Yeshua Says, He that is mikroteros (the less(er)) among you all; the same shall be megas-great, (Luke 9:48). The talmidim say to Yeshua, We know that you shall go from us: who is it that shall be made great over us? Yeshua says to them, The place from where you did come, to there shall you go: to Yaakob the Tzaddik, for because of him this heavens and earth came into being, (Thomas #12). Watching I was, and behold, a certain one clothed in the fine linen robe of the Kohen to the foot, having the inkhorn of a writer by his side. :Nineveh:

meshak
December 22nd, 2016, 06:49 AM
Archangels............Beginning Angels.....

Is there more than Archangel Mickael?

daqq
December 22nd, 2016, 08:30 AM
Is there more than Archangel Mickael?

Hi Meshak, since you addressed Notaclue I will let that person answer, just wanted to say hello. :)


That's clever, identifying them like that, but isn't it more likely the 7 angelic "names" are rather titles that were passed down? What I mean is... multiple people might be linked to each... and they all might be correct. It isn't a 1-1 correspondence.


Well, if you simply say Ezra the Kohen and Scribe have you not included the whole Torah?
(Which he rewrote in the new Ashuri script).

And how much else did Ezra write? (I think no one knows for sure).
And I also think he was probably a Naziyr, (which would explain much concerning Isaiah). :)

Also I will add, (in agreement), that although I have not found a direct connection it appears that the Tobiad dynasty was essentially claimed to have been founded by none other than Raphael, (book of Tobit). And we find in Tobit also, just as in the Torah, that Raguel is a man: but who is his wife? Her name is Edna, (cf. Tobit 7:2, Edna, a variation on the word Eden, that is, Edenah), which is the same name as the wife of Enoch. Who then does it imply that Raguel represents? His wife is Edna, (Eden), and his daughter is Sarah. Would it not be a reference to Enoch himself? None of this can be mere coincidence because the young female star prize of the book is "Sarah" who finally gets married, ("covenant" reference to the wife of Abraham). Going back to the Torah we find that Yithro, ("His Excellence"), Raguel has seven daughters, one of which Moshe marries, and her name is Tsipporah, (a little birdie, and this is prophecy, for Moshe marries into the Melki-Tzedek Elohim Priesthood by way of Tsipporah the daughter(doctrine) of Yithro Raguel). Who else has daughters that prophesy? That would be Philippos "the evangelist" who is one of the seven and has four daughters that prophesy, (Acts 21:8-9). Philippos has four faces just as does Phanuel, (so then, yes, it appears to be handed down through supernal or spiritual lines and symbolism that goes all the way back to the very beginning).

Wick Stick
December 22nd, 2016, 02:25 PM
It's always fun when we arrive at the same place using different methods. I got here by understanding that this:

http://sojobi.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/2a.jpg

was modeled on this:

http://blog.bodycandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Spring-Constellations.jpg

...with a little help from this:

Revelation 5:6

daqq
December 22nd, 2016, 03:31 PM
It's always fun when we arrive at the same place using different methods. I got here by understanding that this:

http://sojobi.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/2a.jpg

was modeled on this:

http://blog.bodycandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Spring-Constellations.jpg

...with a little help from this:

Revelation 5:6

Wow, seriously, that sounds like something you most definitely should be posting about, (but I can also understand why you would not have a thread such as that in a place like this). If you would like to share your understanding here please do, or if not, perhaps you might send me a PM with a link, that is, if you have the info somewhere online? :)

Notaclue
December 22nd, 2016, 04:34 PM
Is there more than Archangel Mickael?

Is.11:1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


LORD, wisdom, understanding and counsel, might, knowledge and fear of the Lord. All have a Spirit.

Michael is one of Seven. I'm sorry but I don't know for sure which one is Michael? I am too wrapped up in wisdom.

God has made them all One through the death of his Son.

Col.1:15. who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
16for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
17and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Rev.1:5. and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.


Maybe daqq knows which one is Michael?


Peace.

freelight
December 22nd, 2016, 04:51 PM
Is there more than Archangel Mickael?

Just one traditionally speaking, but the name 'Michael' which means 'he who is like elohim' may apply to other angels (messengers who are like God/gods) :) - also, the correlation or affiliation with Michael and Jesus may be more curiously appropriate than some fundamentalists suspect. The name-meaning does apply to both, as far as that goes, and 'Michael' being a heavenly name for 'Christ' also may bear some consideration. How these two figures got confused or later divided in doctrinal developments down thru the ages, is also interesting.

meshak
December 22nd, 2016, 05:29 PM
Is.11:1. And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


LORD, wisdom, understanding and counsel, might, knowledge and fear of the Lord. All have a Spirit.

Michael is one of Seven. I'm sorry but I don't know for sure which one is Michael? I am too wrapped up in wisdom.

God has made them all One through the death of his Son.

Col.1:15. who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
16for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;
17and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.


Rev.1:5. and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth.


Maybe daqq knows which one is Michael?


Peace.

I don't get that how these explain about archangels.

Daqq, you can help me out too.

daqq
December 22nd, 2016, 05:48 PM
Hmmm, the question was, "Is there more than Archangel Mickael?", and I can only assume that means more than one archangel, (which is a good question). The answer to that would be that Miykael is the only one actually called an archangel or chief-messenger in what is now considered the "canonical" scripture. Some versions of Enoch have the seven called archangels but I think that likely comes from a misunderstanding somewhere along the way somewhere back in time, (three or four different language translations including Latin). Arche though does mean "head" in that sense and is also what Miykael is called in Daniel, ("ha-Sar ha-Gadol" or the Great Prince-Head, Daniel 12:1). However angelos, like malak in Hebrew, can just as easily, (and more likely), mean a messenger. Miykael would therefore be the "head-messenger" or captain of the the host of the messengers. That is also what we read of the one with his sword drawn in Joshua 5:13-15, where he is called "Sar tsaba YHWH", which is to say, Prince, Captain, or Head of the host, (or army), of YHWH, (and the same title is used in Daniel 8:11). But as for who I have already offered my understanding of that: a certain one clothed in the white linen kittel of the Priest having a writer's inkhorn by his side. :shut: :)

meshak
December 22nd, 2016, 06:12 PM
thank you daqq,

I understood that arch means head, meaning it should be only one head messenger.

that's why I asked this question.

Wick Stick
December 22nd, 2016, 06:44 PM
Wow, seriously, that sounds like something you most definitely should be posting about, (but I can also understand why you would not have a thread such as that in a place like this). If you would like to share your understanding here please do, or if not, perhaps you might send me a PM with a link, that is, if you have the info somewhere online? :)
That's a deep-ish rabbit hole... God took Moses up on a mountain to show him the pattern to make the tabernacle and all the associated stuff. That's because the congregation was modeled on the night sky.

Here's some astronomical/astrological facts, and you connect the dots (pun intended).

There are many constellations but only 12 are part of the zodiac.

If you could see the stars during the day, rotating the same direction as the sun, it would appear that the sun was riding on top of certain constellations. 12 constellations to be exact, and now you know what makes a zodiac sign part of the zodiac.

Draw a line through all the signs of the zodiac, and you have a circle/ellipse.

Put a pin in the middle of that circle. You now have the center or apex of your map of the night sky. That pin would be in the constellation Cepheus.

The constellation Cepheus depicts a king seated on a throne.

Just in front of that throne are the constellations Draco and Ursa Minor. Draco is a dragon or "that old serpent" if you like. Ursa Minor means 'little bear,' but since Moses didn't have any bears in his neighborhood, the Israelites saw it as a little sheep instead.

Revelation 5:6

Ursa minor is composed of 7 major stars. You probably know this constellation better as the Little Dipper. 4 stars form the ladle, and three more form the handle.

Stars and angels are the same thing in Revelation. And Ezekiel. And Enoch. Ok, in most Jewish books. Eyes are part of the same metaphor too.

So, a king on His throne, with a lamb in front of him, surrounded by 12 symbols... yeah this is the assembly gathered around the tabernacle.

That should be enough. But if not, look up the standards/banners that the each tribe gathered under. If you guessed that they were mostly identical to the zodiac signs, you would be right.

daqq
December 24th, 2016, 11:21 AM
thank you daqq,

I understood that arch means head, meaning it should be only one head messenger.

that's why I asked this question.

:thumb: :)

daqq
December 24th, 2016, 12:35 PM
It's always fun when we arrive at the same place using different methods. I got here by understanding that this:

http://sojobi.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/2a.jpg

was modeled on this:

http://blog.bodycandy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Spring-Constellations.jpg

...with a little help from this:

Revelation 5:6


That's a deep-ish rabbit hole... God took Moses up on a mountain to show him the pattern to make the tabernacle and all the associated stuff. That's because the congregation was modeled on the night sky.

Here's some astronomical/astrological facts, and you connect the dots (pun intended).

There are many constellations but only 12 are part of the zodiac.

If you could see the stars during the day, rotating the same direction as the sun, it would appear that the sun was riding on top of certain constellations. 12 constellations to be exact, and now you know what makes a zodiac sign part of the zodiac.

Draw a line through all the signs of the zodiac, and you have a circle/ellipse.

Put a pin in the middle of that circle. You now have the center or apex of your map of the night sky. That pin would be in the constellation Cepheus.

The constellation Cepheus depicts a king seated on a throne.

Just in front of that throne are the constellations Draco and Ursa Minor. Draco is a dragon or "that old serpent" if you like. Ursa Minor means 'little bear,' but since Moses didn't have any bears in his neighborhood, the Israelites saw it as a little sheep instead.

Revelation 5:6

Ursa minor is composed of 7 major stars. You probably know this constellation better as the Little Dipper. 4 stars form the ladle, and three more form the handle.

Stars and angels are the same thing in Revelation. And Ezekiel. And Enoch. Ok, in most Jewish books. Eyes are part of the same metaphor too.

So, a king on His throne, with a lamb in front of him, surrounded by 12 symbols... yeah this is the assembly gathered around the tabernacle.

That should be enough. But if not, look up the standards/banners that the each tribe gathered under. If you guessed that they were mostly identical to the zodiac signs, you would be right.


Very ancient things . . .


http://www.andrewcollins.com/pics/fig.%2010%20-%20vulture%20sone%20Pillar%2043%20Cygnus%20marked. jpg
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/magicians.htm

"Journey of the Soul"
"It is more likely that Pillar 43 depicts the death journey of the soul of the deceased, or indeed that of the shaman (see below). This would be the removal of a soul from its physical environment, represented by the headless figure with an erection at the base of the stone - via Scorpius, signified by the scorpion, to its final destination among the stars. This destination, arguably the entrance to the "upper world" or sky-world of Eurasian shamanic tradition, appears to have been located in the vicinity of Cygnus, represented on the pillar by the main vulture, where the soul of the individual is shown as the ball above its left wing."

"Ercan goes on to link the vulture imagery on Gbekli Tepe's Pillar 43 with the act of disposing of the dead through the practice of excarnation, along with its allied association with the transmigration of the soul: "There were no graves 12,000 years ago. The dead bodies were left outdoors and raptors [that is, vultures] ate them. In this way, people believed the soul goes to the sky." This, he said, was called "burial in the sky," i.e. sky burial, and is depicted in the carved art at Gbekli Tepe, and also at the 9,000-year-old Neolithic city of atalhyk in southern-central Anatolia. Here, shown in one particular painted fresco, are two vultures at the top of a wooden excarnation tower in the act of feasting on a human corpse, which as at Gbekli Tepe is shown as a headless figure (see fig. 13). Yet next to this scene are two more vultures on another excarnation tower that appear to be taking under their wings a ball-like head, this time with a mouth and two eyes. What we are almost certainly seeing here are the birds accepting into their care the soul of the deceased person in preparation for its journey to the next world."
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/magicians.htm

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/signs-of-worlds-first-pictograph-found-in-gobeklitepe (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/signs-of-worlds-first-pictograph-found-in-gobeklitepe-.aspx?PageID=238&NID=85438&NewsCatID=375)
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/worlds-oldest-pictograph-discovered-gobekli-tepe (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/worlds-oldest-pictograph-discovered-gobekli-tepe-shows-decapitated-head-vulture-wing-1511137)

Galgal Rephaim is also thought to have been a location for "Sky Burials"
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.393573.1320347232!/image/3637497818.jpg_gen/derivatives/headline_857x482/3637497818.jpg
(http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/morbid-theory-in-mystery-of-israel-s-answer-to-stonehenge-1.393568)http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/morbid-theory-in-mystery-of-israel-s-answer-to-stonehenge (http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/morbid-theory-in-mystery-of-israel-s-answer-to-stonehenge-1.393568)

Although most here would likely find this appalling I think you might find it quite interesting that this ancient symbolism of the journey of the soul to the heavens upon death is actually found in the very earliest portions of Genesis. In fact it concerns the covenant with Abraham which appears to have been misread or pointed incorrectly in the Masorete Hebrew Text, (nashab-disperse for yashab-dwell-sit while nashab still does not even appear to be in the text despite the modern English renderings to the contrary), which is unfortunate because without this symbolism there are many prophetic statements and curious things said by both Moses and the Prophets which cannot be understood apart from this ancient symbolism. Even the idea that the descendants of Abraham would be as the stars of the heavens comes from this symbolism. In the LXX version of Genesis 15:11 we do not read that Abram chased away the fowls which came down upon the pieces but rather that he sat down among them revealing that the symbolism is of Abram himself, being slain, and giving himself willingly in sacrifice, (but of course it is only symbolism because, as Paul says, Elohim desires us to offer ourselves as living sacrifices unto Him). It is again the same old time symbolism of the flesh being put to death, or mortified as Paul likes to say, even given to the fowls of the heavens and the beasts of the field, (which is found in much prophetic typology, allegory, and symbolism).

Genesis 15:11 LXX Brenton English Translation
11 And birds came down upon the bodies, even upon the divided parts of them, and Abram sat down by them.

Yet even Brenton does not go far enough in his rendering, imo, because the word used for sat down by is rather sat down together with them, (the pieces, which represent his own self in sacrifice, while the fowls devoured the flesh from off the pieces).

Genesis 15:11 OG LXX
15:11 κατεβη δε ορνεα επι τα σωματα τα διχοτομηματα αυτων και συνεκαθισεν αυτοις αβραμ
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/01_015.htm

G4776 συγκαθίζω sugkathizo (sng-ka-thiy'-zō) v.
to give (or take) a seat in company with.
[from G4862 and G2523]
KJV: (make) sit (down) together

Other key symbols are also in the Hebrew such as tannur "fire pot", (little "lake of fire"?).

Genesis 15:9-18
9 And He said to him, Take for Me the treble of an heifer, and the treble of a she-goat, and the treble of a ram, and a turtledove; even a young nestling.
10 And he took unto Him all these, and parted them in the midst, and laid each piece one against his fellow: but the tsippor divided he not.
11 Moreover the fowls descended upon their divided carcasses and Abram sat together with them.
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13 And He said to Abram, Know of a surety that your seed shall be a stranger in a land which is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years:
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be interred in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come here again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17 And it came to pass that when the sun went down, and it was twilight, behold a smoking tannur-fire-pot, and burning lamps of fire, which passed amidst those pieces.
18 In this day cut YHWH with Abram a covenant, saying, Unto your seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Ezekiel 39:17-20 The Scriptures (TS2009)
17 “And you, son of man, thus said the Master יהוה, ‘Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field, “Assemble yourselves and come, gather from all around to My slaughtering which I am slaughtering for you, a great slaughtering on the mountains of Yisra’ĕl, and you shall eat flesh and drink blood.
18 “Eat the flesh of the mighty, drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams and lambs, of goats and bulls, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 “And you shall eat fat till you are filled, and drink blood till you are drunk, at My slaughtering which I am slaughtering for you.
20 “And you shall be satisfied at My table with horses and riders, with mighty men and with all the men of battle,” declares the Master יהוה.

Revelation 19:17-20 The Scriptures (TS2009)
17 And I saw one messenger standing in the sun, and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great Elohim,
18 to eat the flesh of sovereigns, and the flesh of commanders, and the flesh of strong ones, and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
19 And I saw the beast, and the sovereigns of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to fight Him who sat on the horse and His army.
20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he led astray those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped his image. The two were thrown alive into the lake of fire burning with sulphur.

Deut 28:26, 1Sam 17:46, Isa 18:5-7, Jer 7:32-34, Jer 15:1-3, Jer 16:1-4, Jer 19:3-7, Jer 34:19-20.

Ah, but who is willing to make such a self-sacrificing covenant with the Most High? Your eyes of the flesh seeing all things according to the eyes and mind of the flesh will dissolve while you stand upon your feet; your tongue of the flesh speaking carnal things of the carnal flesh man will dissolve in your mouth, (Zechariah 14:12-16), and no doubt the like symbolism is found in many other prophetic passages which not only the Testimony of Yeshua in the Gospel accounts but even the writings of Paul likewise explain in the doctrine of "cutting off the flesh", the deeds of the flesh, and the old man carnal nature.

. . . So Moshe like a Cherub took up the bones of Yoseph out of Egypt, when bnei Yisrael went forth out of Egypt, (O Egypt, great of flesh!), for Yoseph had straightly sworn bnei Yisrael, saying, Elohim will surely visit you; and you shall carry up my bones out of here with you, (for when they had spiced-embalmed the body of Yoseph, they placed his carcass in an Ark in Egypt, (and the stone coffer was of the same cubic internal volume as the Ark-box of the Covenant with the Krubim on the atonement cover)). . . :)

daqq
December 26th, 2016, 07:55 AM
Tobit 6:1-7
1 And as they went on their journey, they came in the evening to the river Hidakkel, and they lodged there.
2 And when the παιδαριον, (that is, a youth in training), went down to wash himself; a fish leaped out of the river, and tried to devour him.
3 And the Angel said to him, Grab the fish! and the παιδαριον seized the fish and brought it to the land.
4 Then the Angel said, Open the fish and take the heart, and the liver, and the gall, and put them up safely.
5 So the παιδαριον did as the Angel commanded him; and when they had roasted the fish, they did eat, and salted the rest for provisions: and they went together on their way until the approach to Ekbatana.
6 Then the παιδαριον said to the Angel, Brother Azarias, for what purpose be the heart, and the liver, and the gall of the fish?
7 And he said unto him, Concerning the heart and the liver; if a devil or an evil spirit trouble any, we make a smoke thereof to ascend before the man or the woman: and the party shall no more be vexed.

Moreover a παιδαριον is a young man entering into the forces of Yisrael, that is, two years and under in the forces, a youth in training: a young lad in the way of the Way. It is written in our Law, Take the sum of all the community by their kindreds, by the houses of their fathers, with the number of their names: every male by their heads from twenty years age and upwards; every one that is able to enter into the forces. Therefore our sages have said: Every man who freely volunteers to join the Council of the Community, he shall be examined on his intelligence and his deeds by the man who is the overseer at the head of the Many: and if he is suited to the discipline, (he is a proselyte), he will bring him into the Covenant that he may be converted to the truth and turn away from all perversity. And he shall instruct him in all of the ordinances of the Community, and after, when he presents himself to the Many, they shall consider his case; and according to what fate decrees following the decision of the Many, he shall either approach or depart. And when he approaches the Council, he shall not touch the pure food of the Many until he has been examined concerning his spirit and deeds, and until he has completed one full year, (he is a babe), and let him not mingle his property with that of the Many. And when he has completed one full year in the midst of the Community, the Many shall consider his case concerning his intelligence and deeds with regard to the Law: and if fate decrees that he approach the Company of the Community, following the decision of the Kohanim and the majority of the members of their Covenant, his property and his wages shall be handed over to the overseer of the revenues of the Many: but it shall be inscribed to his credit and shall not be spent to the benefit of the Many; he shall not touch the drink of the Many until he has completed a second full year in the midst of the members of the Community, (he is a child-servant). And when he has completed the second full year they shall examine him; and according to the decision of the Many, and if fate decrees that he approach the Community, he shall be enrolled and inscribed in his rank in the midst of his brethren.

And it came to pass that Yeshua ascended up into the mountain, and there he was seated with his talmidim: and Pesach Sheni the Yhudim feast was near. Yeshua therefore lifted up his eyes, (as when father Abraham lifted up his eyes in the meaning of the Way), and seeing that a great multitude was come unto him, he says to Philippos, face of an eagle, From where shall we market bread so that these may eat? But this he said to examine him: for he himself knew what was about to be done. Philippos the horse-lover answers him, Two hundred denarion of bread is not sufficient for them that each one might take even a little. One of his talmidim, Andreas the manfaced, brother of Shimon Petros, says to him, There is a παιδαριον here which has five barley loaves and two opsaria-roasted-salted reserves: but what are these among so many?

Yeshua Says, "ποιησατε τους ανθρωπους αναπεσειν!", which is to say, Make the anthropon-manfaced fall! Moreover there was much grass in that place; thus the ανδρες-men reclined, (for the ανθρωπους-manfaced were fallen), the number as it were five thousand. And Yeshua took the loaves; and when he had offered up the blessing at the Door, he distributed to the talmidim, and the talmidim distributed to them that were reclining; and likewise of the opsaria roasted-salted fish reserves, as much as they would. And when they were filled, he said to his talmidim, Gather up the fragments that remain so that nothing be lost. They therefore gathered them together; and twelve small baskets were filled with the fragments of the five barley loaves which remained over and above unto them that had eaten.

The anthropon manfaced, having seen the sign which was done, therefore said, This is of a truth that Prophet that should come into the world. Yeshua therefore, perceiving that they were about to come and take him by force to make him a king, withdrew again into the mountain himself alone. And when evening came, his talmidim went down unto the sea; and they entered into a vessel, and were going over the sea unto KapherNaum: and it was now dark, and Yeshua had not yet come to them. And the sea was rising up by reason of a great storm of wind that blew. When therefore they had rowed about twenty-five or thirty stadia, they behold Yeshua traversing over the sea and drawing near unto the vessel, and they were in a fearful panic: but he said to them, Fear not, I am ― ― ― ―!

They were therefore willing to receive him into the vessel; and by and by the vessel was at the land whither they were going. On the morrow the multitude that stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was no other vessel there, save one, and that Yeshua entered not with his talmidim into the vessel, but that his talmidim went away alone, (howbeit there came vessels from Tiberias nigh unto the place where they ate the bread that the Master had graced), and when the multitude therefore saw that Yeshua was not there, neither his talmidim, they themselves got into the little vessels and came to KapherNaum seeking Yeshua. And when they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, Rabbi, how did you get here? Yeshua answered them, and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, You seek me not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. Work not for the food which perishes, but for the food which abides unto aionion life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him the Elohim Father has sealed. They said therefore to him, What must we do that we may work the works of Elohim? Yeshua answered and said to them, This is the work of Elohim, that you faithfully-trust into that one He has sent. They said therefore to him, What then do you do for a sign? that we may see and believe you? What sign do you work? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, as it is written, He gave them bread out of the heavens to eat. Yeshua therefore said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, It was not Moshe that gave you the bread out of the heavens; but my Father gives you the true bread out of the heavens. For the bread of Elohim is that which comes down out of the heavens and gives life unto the world. They said therefore unto him, Adoni, evermore give us this bread! Yeshua said to them, I am the bread of life: the one coming unto me shall not hunger, and the one faithfully-trusting into me shall never thirst.

Raguel-Reuel-Immanuel, one of the holy Malakim, manna bread of life from the heavens.
Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Immanuel-Reuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51

Mark 6:45-53
45 And straightway he constrained his talmidim to enter into the vessel, and to go before him unto the other side toward Bethsaida, while he himself sent the multitude away.
46 And after he had taken leave of them he departed into the mountain to pray.
47 And when even was come, the vessel was in the midst of the sea, and he alone on the land.
48 And seeing them distressed in rowing, for the wind was contrary unto them, about the fourth watch of the night he comes unto them, traversing over the sea; and he would have passed them by:
49 But they, when they saw him traversing over the sea, supposed that it was a phantasma (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?111595-Yeshua-Says&p=4881664&viewfull=1#post4881664), and they cried out:
50 For they all saw him and were terrified: but straightway he spoke with them, and said to them, Have courage, I am ― ― ― ―! Fear not.
51 And he ascended up to them into the vessel, and the wind ceased, and they were sorely amazed within themselves:
52 For they understood not concerning the bread-loaves, but their heart was hardened.
53 And when they had entirely crossed over, they went over the land unto Gan-Netsaret, and they stationed there.

Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Immanuel-Reuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51, Mark 6:50

daqq
December 26th, 2016, 10:00 AM
John 8:12-15
12 Again therefore Yeshua spoke to them, saying, I am the light of the kosmos: the one following me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.
13 The Pharisees therefore said to him, You bear witness of yourself; your witness is not true! [for they remembered what he said in John 5:31 and tried to turn it against him]
14 Yeshua answered and said to them, Even if I bear witness of myself, my witness is true; for I know from where I came, and to where I go: but you know not from where I come, or to where I go.
15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.
16 But even if I do judge, my judgment is true; for not alone am I, but I and the Father that sent me.
17 Moreover, even in your own law, it is written that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am he that testifies concerning my own, and the Father that sent me testifies concerning me [by the works which are done].
19 They said therefore to him, Where is your Father? Yeshua answered, You know neither me, nor my Father: if you had known me, you would have known my Father also.
20 These words he spoke in the treasury as he taught in the temple: and no one seized him, for his hour was not yet come.
21 He said therefore again to them, I go away, and you shall seek me, and shall die in your sin: to where I go, you are not able to come.
22 The Yhudim therefore said, Will he kill himself? because he says, "To where I go, you are not able come"?
23 And he said to them, You are from below; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore to you that you shall die in your sins: for if you believe not that I am [― ― ― ― ―], you will die in your sins.
25 They said therefore to him, You are who? [because they understood that he did not complete the "I am" statement] Yeshua said to them, That which I also spoke to you at the beginning! [John 8:12 - I am the light of the kosmos]

Uriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the kosmos and tartaros.
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the Kosmos (Uriel) - John 8:12, 24, 28, 58, 9:5

Matthew 14:22-34
22 And straightway he constrained the talmidim to enter into the vessel, and to go on before him unto the other side, until he should send the multitudes away.
23 And after he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into the mountain apart to pray: and when even was come, he was there alone.
24 But the vessel was now in the midst of the sea, distressed by the waves; for the wind was contrary.
25 And in the fourth watch of the night he came to them traversing over the sea.
26 And when the talmidim saw him traversing over the sea, they were troubled, saying, "It is a phantasma (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?111595-Yeshua-Says&p=4881664&viewfull=1#post4881664)!" and they cried out for fear.
27 But straightway Yeshua spoke unto them, saying, Have courage, I am ― ― ― ― ―! Fear not.
28 And Petros answered him and said, Adoni, if it be you, summon me to come unto you over the waters.
29 And he said, Come! And Petros disembarked the vessel, and traversed over the waters, to come to Yeshua.
30 But when he saw the wind, he feared; and beginning to sink he cried out, saying, Adoni, rescue me!
31 And immediately Yeshua stretched forth his hand, [power] and snatched him up, and said to him, O you of small faith, why did you stand duplicate? [that is to say, between two ways, doubting]
32 And when they were ascended into the vessel the wind ceased.
33 And they that were in the vessel did obeisance unto him, saying, Of a truth you are a Son of Elohim!
34 And when they had entirely crossed over they went over the land unto Gan-Netsaret.

Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Immanuel-Reuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51, Mark 6:50
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the Kosmos (Uriel) - John 8:12, 24, 28, 58, 9:5, Matthew 14:27

daqq
December 26th, 2016, 01:39 PM
Yeshua Says, You are the light of the kosmos: a city set on a hill cannot be hidden, (Matthew 5:14).

John 9:1-41
1 And as he passed by, [going forth from the temple, John 8:59] he saw a man blind from his birth.
2 And his talmidim asked him, saying, Rabbi, who sinned? this man, or his parents, that he should be born blind?
3 Yeshua answered, Neither did this man sin, nor his parents: but that the works of Elohim should be made manifest in him.
4 We must work the works of Him that sent me while it is day; the night comes, when no one is able to work:
5 Inasmuch as I am in the kosmos, I am the light of the kosmos.
6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the adamah, and made clay of the spittle, and anointed his eyes with the clay:
7 And said to him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent), he went away therefore, and washed, and returned seeing.
8 The neighbors therefore, and they that saw him previously, that he was a beggar, said, Is not this the one that sat and begged?
9 Some said, It is he, others said, No but he is similar to him, he himself said, I am [― ― ― ― ―].
10 They therefore said to him, How were your eyes opened?
11 He answered, The man that is λεγομενος-laying-forth-speaking Salvation [Yeshua] made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said to me, Go to Siloam and wash: so I went away, and washed, and I received sight.
12 And they said to him, Where is he? He said, I know not.
13 They bring to the Pharisees him that previously was blind.
14 Moreover it was a Shabbat in the day when Yeshua made the clay and opened his eyes.
15 Again therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he received his sight; and he said to them, He applied clay to my eyes, and I washed, and I see.
16 Some therefore of the Pharisees said, This is not a man of Elohim because he does not observe Shabbat, but others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such signs? And there was a division among them.
17 They say therefore to the [formerly] blind man again, What do you say of him? in that he opened your eyes? Moreover, he said, He is a prophet.
18 The Yhudim therefore did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind and had received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight:
19 And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who you say was born blind? how then does he now see?
20 His parents answered and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:
21 But how he now sees, we know not, or who opened his eyes, we know not; ask him, he is of age: he shall speak for himself.
22 These things said his parents because they feared the Yhudim: for the Yhudim had jointly consented already that if any should confess him to be anointed they should be put out of the synagogue.
23 Therefore said his parents, He is of age: ask him!
24 So they called a second time the man that was [formerly] blind, and said to him, Give glory to Elohim: we know that this man is a sinner!
25 He therefore answered, Whether he is a sinner, I know not: one thing I know, that whereas I was blind, I now see!
26 They said therefore to him, What did he do to you? How did he open your eyes?
27 He answered them, I told you already and you did not hear; wherefore would you hear it again? Do you also wish to become his talmidim?
28 And they reviled him, and said, You are his talmid! But we are talmidim of Moshe!
29 We know that Elohim has spoken by Moshe: but as for this one, we know not from where he is.
30 The man answered and said to them, Why herein is a marvelous thing: you know not from where he is and yet he opened my eyes!
31 We know that Elohim does not hear sinners: but if any be a θεοσεβης worshiper-servant of Elohim Almighty, and do His will, this one He hears!
32 From the aionos it was never heard that any one opened the eyes of one born blind:
33 If this one were not from Elohim, he could do nothing.
34 They answered and said to him, You were altogether born in sins, and do you teach us? And they cast him out.
35 Yeshua heard that they had cast him out, and having found him, he said, You, faithfully trust into the Son of man!
36 He answered and said, And who is he, Adoni? that I may faithfully trust into him?
37 Yeshua said to him, You have also seen him: and the one speaking with you, he is that one.
38 And he said, I do believe, Adoni, and he bowed to him.
39 And Yeshua said, For judgment I came into this world, so that they that see not may see; and that they that see may become blind.
40 Those of the Pharisees who were with him heard these things, and said to him, Are we also blind?
41 Yeshua said to them, If you were blind you would not have sin: but now that you say, We see, your sin remains.

daqq
December 26th, 2016, 09:01 PM
John 10:1-10
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that enters not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, that one is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep:
3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice: and he calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out.
4 When he has put forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable Yeshua spoke to them: but they understood not what things they were which he spoke to them.
7 Yeshua therefore said to them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 As many as all having come are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: if anyone through me enters in, he shall be delivered, and shall go in and go out, and shall find pasture.
10 The thief comes not but to steal, and to slaughter, and to destroy: I came that they may have life and may have it abundantly.

Let not your spirit be that of a hireling, thief, robber, or wolf, but a sheep:

Raphael, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits of mankind.
Yeshua Says, I am the Door of the sheep (Raphael) - John 10:7-9

John 10:11-15
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd lays down his soul for the sheep.
12 He that is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholds the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them:
13 He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and I know mine own, and mine own know me:
15 Even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my soul for the sheep.

Miykael, one of the holy Malakim, who is appointed over the noble good of the people.
Yeshua Says, I am the Good Shepherd (Miykael) - John 10:11-14

John 11:25-26
25 Yeshua said to her, I am the resurrection and the life: the one that is faithfully-trusting into me, though dying off, yet shall live:
26 And whosoever lives and is faithfully-trusting into me shall absolutely not die off into the aiona. Do you believe this?

Remiel, one of the holy Malakim, whom Eloah set over those that rise.
Yeshua Says, I am the Resurrection and the Life (Remiel) - John 11:25

John 14:6
6 Yeshua said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one comes unto the Father if not through me.

Genesis 3:23-24
23 Therefore YHWH Elohim sent him forth from Gan Eden to till the adamah-soil from which he was taken.
24 And He drove out the adam; and He caused to dwell at the forefront of Gan Eden the Kerubim, and a blazing sword which turned every way, to keep the Way of the tree of Life.

Daniel 10:21 (Gabriel)
21 But I announce to you that which is noted in the Writing of Truth, and there is none strengthening himself with me, concerning these, except Miykael, your head-prince.

Gabriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the Paradise, the Seraphim, and Kerubim.
Yeshua Says, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life (Gabriel) - John 14:6

John 15:1-5
1 I am the true vine: and my Father is the Husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit, He takes it away: and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it, that it may bear more fruit.
3 Already you are clean because of the Logos-Word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you, just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine: in this manner neither can you, if you do not abide in me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches: the one abiding in me, and I in him, the same bears much fruit: for apart from me you can do nothing.

Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.
Yeshua Says, I am the True Vine (Sariel) - John 15:1-5

Enoch 20:1-8
1 These are the names of the holy Malakim ha-Notzerim:
2 Uriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the kosmos and tartaros.
3 Raphael, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits of mankind.
4 Raguel, one of the holy Malakim, the one avenging the kosmos of the luminaries.
5 Miykael, one of the holy Malakim, who is appointed over the noble good of the people.
6 Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.
7 Gabriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the Paradise, the Seraphim, and Kerubim.
8 Remiel, one of the holy Malakim, whom Eloah set over those that rise.

John 18:4-9
4 Yeshua therefore, knowing all those things that were coming upon him, issued forth and said to them, Whom do you seek?
5 They answered him, Yeshua ha-Natsorai, he said to them, I am [Yeshua ha-Natsorai ― ― ― ― ― ― ―]! Moreover Yhudas who delivered him up was also standing with them:
6 In the manner therefore that he said to them, I am [Yeshua ha-Natsorai-Raguel-Uriel-Raphael-Miykael-Remiel-Gabriel-Sariel]! they went backward and fell to the earth.
7 He then asked them again, Whom do you seek? And they said, Yeshua ha-Natsorai.
8 Yeshua answered, I have told you that I am; [Yeshua ha-Natsorai] if therefore you seek me, let these go their way:
9 So that the word which he spoke might be fulfilled, Of them which You gave to me, none have I lost.

Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Emmanuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51, Mark 6:50
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the Kosmos (Uriel) - John 8:12, 24, 28, 58, 9:5, Matthew 14:27
Yeshua Says, I am the Door of the sheep (Raphael) - John 10:7-9
Yeshua Says, I am the Good Shepherd (Miykael) - John 10:11-14
Yeshua Says, I am the Resurrection and the Life (Remiel) - John 11:25
Yeshua Says, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life (Gabriel) - John 14:6
Yeshua Says, I am the True Vine (Sariel) - John 15:1-5

Notaclue
December 27th, 2016, 02:00 AM
John 10:1-10
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that enters not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, that one is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that enters in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep:
3 To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice: and he calls his own sheep by name, and leads them out.
4 When he has put forth all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable Yeshua spoke to them: but they understood not what things they were which he spoke to them.
7 Yeshua therefore said to them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 As many as all having come are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: if anyone through me enters in, he shall be delivered, and shall go in and go out, and shall find pasture.
10 The thief comes not but to steal, and to slaughter, and to destroy: I came that they may have life and may have it abundantly.

Let not your spirit be that of a hireling, thief, robber, or wolf, but a sheep:

Raphael, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits of mankind.
Yeshua Says, I am the Door of the sheep (Raphael) - John 10:7-9

John 10:11-15
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd lays down his soul for the sheep.
12 He that is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, beholds the wolf coming, and leaves the sheep, and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them:
13 He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and I know mine own, and mine own know me:
15 Even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father; and I lay down my soul for the sheep.

Miykael, one of the holy Malakim, who is appointed over the noble good of the people.
Yeshua Says, I am the Good Shepherd (Miykael) - John 10:11-14

John 11:25-26
25 Yeshua said to her, I am the resurrection and the life: the one that is faithfully-trusting into me, though dying off, yet shall live:
26 And whosoever lives and is faithfully-trusting into me shall absolutely not die off into the aiona. Do you believe this?

Remiel, one of the holy Malakim, whom Eloah set over those that rise.
Yeshua Says, I am the Resurrection and the Life (Remiel) - John 11:25

John 14:6
6 Yeshua said to him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one comes unto the Father if not through me.

Genesis 3:23-24
23 Therefore YHWH Elohim sent him forth from Gan Eden to till the adamah-soil from which he was taken.
24 And He drove out the adam; and He caused to dwell at the forefront of Gan Eden the Kerubim, and a blazing sword which turned every way, to keep the Way of the tree of Life.

Daniel 10:21 (Gabriel)
21 But I announce to you that which is noted in the Writing of Truth, and there is none strengthening himself with me, concerning these, except Miykael, your head-prince.

Gabriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the Paradise, the Seraphim, and Kerubim.
Yeshua Says, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life (Gabriel) - John 14:6

John 15:1-5
1 I am the true vine: and my Father is the Husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that does not bear fruit, He takes it away: and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it, that it may bear more fruit.
3 Already you are clean because of the Logos-Word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you, just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine: in this manner neither can you, if you do not abide in me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches: the one abiding in me, and I in him, the same bears much fruit: for apart from me you can do nothing.

Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.
Yeshua Says, I am the True Vine (Sariel) - John 15:1-5

Enoch 20:1-8
1 These are the names of the holy Malakim ha-Notzerim:
2 Uriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the kosmos and tartaros.
3 Raphael, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits of mankind.
4 Raguel, one of the holy Malakim, the one avenging the kosmos of the luminaries.
5 Miykael, one of the holy Malakim, who is appointed over the noble good of the people.
6 Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.
7 Gabriel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the Paradise, the Seraphim, and Kerubim.
8 Remiel, one of the holy Malakim, whom Eloah set over those that rise.

John 18:4-9
4 Yeshua therefore, knowing all those things that were coming upon him, issued forth and said to them, Whom do you seek?
5 They answered him, Yeshua ha-Natsorai, he said to them, I am [Yeshua ha-Natsorai ― ― ― ― ― ― ―]! Moreover Yhudas who delivered him up was also standing with them:
6 In the manner therefore that he said to them, I am [Yeshua ha-Natsorai-Raguel-Uriel-Raphael-Miykael-Remiel-Gabriel-Sariel]! they went backward and fell to the earth.
7 He then asked them again, Whom do you seek? And they said, Yeshua ha-Natsorai.
8 Yeshua answered, I have told you that I am; [Yeshua ha-Natsorai] if therefore you seek me, let these go their way:
9 So that the word which he spoke might be fulfilled, Of them which You gave to me, none have I lost.

Yeshua Says, I am the Bread of Life (Emmanuel-Raguel) - John 6:20, 35, 48, 51, Mark 6:50
Yeshua Says, I am the Light of the Kosmos (Uriel) - John 8:12, 24, 28, 58, 9:5, Matthew 14:27
Yeshua Says, I am the Door of the sheep (Raphael) - John 10:7-9
Yeshua Says, I am the Good Shepherd (Miykael) - John 10:11-14
Yeshua Says, I am the Resurrection and the Life (Remiel) - John 11:25
Yeshua Says, I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life (Gabriel) - John 14:6
Yeshua Says, I am the True Vine (Sariel) - John 15:1-5


Thank you daqq, I tried to get these out of the Zohar.


Peace to you.

daqq
December 27th, 2016, 10:48 AM
Thank you daqq, I tried to get these out of the Zohar.


Peace to you.

Having just learned these things myself in this last year it was my pleasure to share them. But they are indeed found throughout the scripture, (and there is so much more), and I have no doubt that the apostolic writers considered 1Enoch also as scripture. Paul himself is another excellent example as shown by way of his conversion testimony and the Testimony of Yeshua in those accounts, (also, of note, wherein Paul says that Yeshua spoke to him in Hebrew). What Enoch says of Sariel is borne out in the Testimony of Paul, and how it relates to where Sariel is found in the Torah, but first it is necessary to perhaps try to explain the Greek passage concerning Sariel in Enoch because I have not seen a translation where it is rendered in the way I have shown it above herein. In the statement the word epi is used twice, (G1909 επι), which means upon, over, at, by, and sometimes may be used for "against" depending on context. In the statement concerning Sariel the first usage is simply "over", that is, Sariel is "over" those who sin, etc., etc., while the second usage should imo be understood as "against" because it is used with τῷ (πνεύματι - Spirit). So the statement does indeed say just what I rendered it to say:

Enoch 20:6 (Liber Enoch Graece (http://www.patrologia-lib.ru/apocryph/vetus/enoch.htm))
6 Σαριήλ, ὁ εἷς τῶν ἁγίων ἀγγέλων ὁ ἐπὶ τῶν πνευμάτων οἵτινες ἐπὶ τῷ πνεύματι ἁμαρτάνουσιν.
6 Sariel, one of the holy Malakim, the one over the spirits which transgress against the Spirit.

This speaks of blasphemy of the Spirit, not to say that Yaakob was committing such an offense, (for it is a learning curve and Yaakob is the beginning of the teaching), but certainly this is what Shaul was doing even by his own admission. Not only was he blaspheming himself, and those of the congregation of Elohim which he was hunting down and forcing to blaspheme, (Acts 26:11), but he was blaspheming Elohim while thinking himself to be doing Elohim a service. Albeit Paul did these things in the ignorance of unbelief, but obtained mercy, and was forgiven, (1 Timothy 1:12-13). In his testimony before Agrippa he quotes the words of Messiah Yeshua spoken to him and therein we find a cryptic idiom which takes us back to Sariel and the encounter with Yaakob:

Acts 26:10-14
10 And this I also did in Yerushalem: and I both shut up many of the holy ones in prisons, having received authority from the chief kohanim, and when they were taken away I cast my vote against them.
11 And punishing them oftentimes in all the synagogues, I strove to make them blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto outlying cities.
12 Whereupon as I journeyed to Damascus with the authority and commission of the chief kohanim:
13 At midday, O king, I saw on the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them that journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice saying unto me in Hebrew, Shaul, Shaul, why do you persecute-pursue me? It is to the drying [of the thigh] for you to kick against the cattle-prod.

σκληρος, (skleros), is "hard" or "tough", (like leather), but its root is σκελος, (skelos), "the leg", which in turn comes from skello, which means "to parch" or "dry up". This is exactly what is said of Yaakob when he met the Malak Sariel, that is, the shank of his thigh was dried up or shrunken when the Angel he wrestled with touched his thigh. That Malak is Sariel as previously explained:


The reason why I say Sariel-Phanuel (Yaakob-YiSra'el) is because sariy is actually found in that text:

Genesis 32:24-31 KJV
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.

"Your name shall no more be called Yaakob, but YiS(a)ra'el: ["He is S(a)ra'el"] for as a prince [sariy] have you been with Elohim, and with men, and have prevailed."

28 וַיֹּ֗אמֶר vaiyomer [And he said] לֹ֤א lo [not] יַעֲקֹב֙ ya'akov [Yaakob] יֵאָמֵ֥ר ye'amer [shall be called] עוֹד֙ 'od [any longer] שִׁמְךָ֔ shimcha [your name] כִּ֖י ki for אִם־ 'im- [but] יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל Yisra'el [Yis-ra'el] כִּֽי־ ki- [because] שָׂרִ֧יתָ sariyta [as a prince have you been (ta)] עִם־ 'im- [with] אֱלֹהִ֛ים EloHim [Elohim] וְעִם־ ve'im- [and with] אֲנָשִׁ֖ים 'anashim [men] וַתּוּכָֽל׃ vattuchal [and have prevailed].

The Malak is thus very likely Sariy'el-YiSra'el-Phanu'el
And he gives Yaakob his name . . . :)

Genesis 32:31-32 KJV
31 And as he passed over Penuel the sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh.
32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the sinew that shrank.

Messiah appears as Sariel to Shaul because he was blaspheming the Spirit, (Enoch 20:6).

Wick Stick
December 27th, 2016, 11:39 AM
Although most here would likely find this appalling I think you might find it quite interesting that this ancient symbolism of the journey of the soul to the heavens upon death is actually found in the very earliest portions of Genesis. In fact it concerns the covenant with Abraham which appears to have been misread or pointed incorrectly in the Masorete Hebrew Text, (nashab-disperse for yashab-dwell-sit while nashab still does not even appear to be in the text despite the modern English renderings to the contrary), which is unfortunate because without this symbolism there are many prophetic statements and curious things said by both Moses and the Prophets which cannot be understood apart from this ancient symbolism.I do find it interesting. I knew I was missing something in Genesis 15. Thanks much; I can tell this is going to be one of those things that opens many doors.

Matthew 24:28 springs to mind, as I read this. Wonder if this figures into the communion meal symbology? Or the caduceus.

Also, the first rank of initiates of Mithraism (which has many parallels to early Christianity) was the Corax (raven). Have you looked at Mithraism at all?


Even the idea that the descendants of Abraham would be as the stars of the heavens comes from this symbolism.It may be connected, but 'stars' are one of the extended metaphors and symbols used consistently throughout all Bible books. Also one of the more important topics in virtually all ancient religion. One more branch for a big tree, IMO.


Other key symbols are also in the Hebrew such as tannur "fire pot", (little "lake of fire"?).Abraham had quite a history with furnaces, didn't he? In the Midrash, Nimrod threw him into one (http://thetorah.com/why-the-midrash-has-abraham-thrown-into-nimrods-furnace/). And there's this story in Jubilees. (http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/jubilees/12.htm)

Also, speaking of alternate vowel pointings, UR (the proper name of Abram's birthplace) with a different vowel pointing means... furnace.


. . . So Moshe like a Cherub took up the bones of Yoseph out of Egypt, when bnei Yisrael went forth out of Egypt, (O Egypt, great of flesh!), for Yoseph had straightly sworn bnei Yisrael, saying, Elohim will surely visit you; and you shall carry up my bones out of here with you, (for when they had spiced-embalmed the body of Yoseph, they placed his carcass in an Ark in Egypt, (and the stone coffer was of the same cubic internal volume as the Ark-box of the Covenant with the Krubim on the atonement cover)). . . :)
This I was aware of - the Ark bears the dimensions of an ossuary. It almost seems relevant that the Hebrews only ever buried the bones of their dead after they were excoriated by natural processes.

daqq
December 27th, 2016, 12:25 PM
I do find it interesting. I knew I was missing something in Genesis 15. Thanks much; I can tell this is going to be one of those things that opens many doors.

Matthew 24:28 springs to mind, as I read this. Wonder if this figures into the communion meal symbology? Or the caduceus.

Also, the first rank of initiates of Mithraism (which has many parallels to early Christianity) was the Corax (raven).

Yeshua therefore said, When you have lifted up the Son of man, then shall you know that I am ― ― ― ― ―, and that I do nothing of myself: but as the Father has taught me, these things I speak, (John 8:28).

John 12:28-41
28 Father, glorify thy name. There came therefore a voice out of the heavens, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29 The multitude therefore, that stood by and heard it, said that it had thundered: others said, An Angel has spoken to him.
30 Yeshua answered and said, This voice has not come for my sake, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the nasiy-prince of this world be cast out.
32 And if I be lifted up from the earth I will drag all men unto myself.
33 But this he said, signifying by what manner of death he should die.
34 The multitude therefore answered him, We have heard out of the law, [Psalms are "the law of kings" (and priests)], that the Meshiah abides for ever: and how say you, The Son of man must be lifted up? Who is this Son of man?
35 Yeshua therefore said to them, Yet a little while is the Light with you: walk while you have the Light, that darkness overtake you not: for he that walks in the darkness knows not where he goes.
36 While you have the Light, faithfully-trust into the Light, that you may become Sons of Light. These things Yeshua spoke, and he departed, and concealed himself from them.
37 But though he had done so many signs before them yet they believed not on him:
38 That the word of Yeshayahu the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke, Adoni, who has believed our report? And to whom has the Arm of YHWH been revealed?
39 For this cause they could not believe because of how Yeshayahu said again:
40 He has blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart, and should turn, and I should heal them, .
41 These things Yeshayahu said because he saw his glory; and he spoke of him, [Isaiah 6:1-3].

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the talmidim came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, [I]when shall these things be? (Matthew 24:3) So the Master expounded many things to them; and when he had finished all those sayings, he said to his talmidim, You know that after two days is the feast of the Passover, and the Son of man is delivered up to be crucified, (Matthew 26:1-2, John 3:14-15, Numbers 21:6-9, Isaiah 6:4, Psalm 22:1-31, Revelation 19:1-31).

daqq
December 27th, 2016, 01:22 PM
Numbers 21:5-9
5 And the people spoke against Elohim, and against Moshe, Wherefore have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, and there is no water: and our soul loathes this light bread.
6 And YHWH sent among the people ha-Nchashim ha-Seraphim, and they struck the people; and much people of Yisrael died.
7 And the people came to Moshe, and said, We have sinned, because we have spoken against YHWH, and against you; intercede unto YHWH, that He take away ha-nachash [the serpent] from us: and Moshe interceded for the people.
8 And YHWH said to Moshe, Make you a Saraph and set it up on a sail-pole: [mast (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?111595-Yeshua-Says&p=4881664&viewfull=1#post4881664)] and it shall come to pass that every one that is struck, when he sees it, shall live.
9 And Moshe made a nachash-serpent of brass and set it up on the sail-pole: and so it was that if a nachash-serpent had struck anyone, when he looked unto the nachash-serpent of brass, he lived.

For all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanan, (Matthew 11:13). :)

daqq
December 27th, 2016, 10:38 PM
Also, the first rank of initiates of Mithraism (which has many parallels to early Christianity) was the Corax (raven). Have you looked at Mithraism at all?

I had not looked much into Mithraism until now that you mentioned it; but now, having taken a cursory look, I do not see much by way of the more recent Roman version, (Wiki). If there is any initial connecting factor, from what I have seen so far, it would be through the meaning of the name Mithra, (Persian), which apparently means "friend" or "associate", (by way of a contract or covenant). That is the meaning also of Reuel, (ru`w, rea`, brother, companion, fellow, friend, neighbor, etc.), and thus Raguel, as you probably already know. However the symbolism is not the same because this kind of associate-friend is one like unto your own soul; more like a spirit twin brother, that is, an "El with us", (and why I find a link between Raguel and Emmanuel). Imo it is not about a "God", (to be worshiped), but rather more like food of angels, that is, spiritual food to be eaten: for the Elohim seed, (cf. Malachi 2:15), comes by way of consumption of the Seed of the Word, (Parable of the Sower and several other idiomatic statements and allegories). So you consume the Seed of the Word, like Maryah, and it comes to pass that a man-child is born, (ZKRY), and a son is given, (NPHG-Sprout), two sons ha-Yitzhar, (the fresh oil for the Light), that is, Emmanu'El, El with us. The one is your inner man and the other his brother does not seek his own glory but rather seeks to lead us like an Elder brother into true worship of the Father in the supernal and spiritual way that the Father desires. :)

Wick Stick
December 29th, 2016, 04:34 PM
I had not looked much into Mithraism until now that you mentioned it; but now, having taken a cursory look, I do not see much by way of the more recent Roman version
I was primarily referring to the "burial in the sky" and its connection to the communal meal.

Mithraism, like Christianity, celebrated a communal meal which at first blush appears to be faux-cannibalism. (At second blush, both act out something different.)

But other parallels include a central place for a metaphorical marriage ceremony, baptismal rites using the four elements, and the use of anointing oil. Justin Martyr and Tertullian both wrote some on the parallels between the two (and of course to denounce the Mithraic cult.)

daqq
December 29th, 2016, 05:56 PM
I was primarily referring to the "burial in the sky" and its connection to the communal meal.

Mithraism, like Christianity, celebrated a communal meal which at first blush appears to be faux-cannibalism. (At second blush, both act out something different.)

But other parallels include a central place for a metaphorical marriage ceremony, baptismal rites using the four elements, and the use of anointing oil. Justin Martyr and Tertullian both wrote some on the parallels between the two (and of course to denounce the Mithraic cult.)

Ah, I see, and yes that theme is likewise found in Psalm 22 which Yeshua points to at Golgotha:

Psalm 22:22-26
22 I will declare Thy Name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.
23 You that reverence YHWH, praise Him; all you of the seed of Yaakob, glorify Him; and reverence Him all you of the seed of Yisrael:
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither has He hidden His face from him: but when he cried unto Him, He heard!
25 My praise shall be unto Thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that reverence Him.
26 The humble-meek shall eat and be satisfied: they that seek YHWH shall praise Him; your heart shall live for ever.

Testimony of Yeshua = the Word = the Bread of Life

daqq
December 30th, 2016, 07:40 PM
I was primarily referring to the "burial in the sky" and its connection to the communal meal.

Mithraism, like Christianity, celebrated a communal meal which at first blush appears to be faux-cannibalism. (At second blush, both act out something different.)

But other parallels include a central place for a metaphorical marriage ceremony, baptismal rites using the four elements, and the use of anointing oil. Justin Martyr and Tertullian both wrote some on the parallels between the two (and of course to denounce the Mithraic cult.)


Ah, I see, and yes that theme is likewise found in Psalm 22 which Yeshua points to at Golgotha:

Psalm 22:22-26
22 I will declare Thy Name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise Thee.
23 You that reverence YHWH, praise Him; all you of the seed of Yaakob, glorify Him; and reverence Him all you of the seed of Yisrael:
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither has He hidden His face from him: but when he cried unto Him, He heard!
25 My praise shall be unto Thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that reverence Him.
26 The humble-meek shall eat and be satisfied: they that seek YHWH shall praise Him; your heart shall live for ever.

Testimony of Yeshua = the Word = the Bread of Life

So then, having seen the statement from Psalm 22:26 and understanding it in the context of Golgotha and other things previously related herein; what does it imply concerning the following passage from Yeshayahu?

Isaiah 49:1-10
1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, O Gentiles from far; after a long time it shall come to pass, says YHWH, from the womb of my mother He has made mention of my name [cf. LXX].
2 And He has made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of His hand He has concealed me, and made me a polished shaft; in His quiver He has hidden me:
3 And said unto me, You are My servant, O Yisrael, [the firstborn] in whom I will be glorified.
4 Then I said, I have labored in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with YHWH, and my work with my Elohei.
5 And now, says YHWH, who formed me from the womb to be His servant, to bring Yaakob again to Him, Though Yisrael be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in-among the eyes of YHWH, [those seven are the eyes of YHWH, the seven holy Notzerim-Watchers sent forth into all the Land, Zec 3:9, Zec 4:10, Rev 5:6, Enoch 20:1] and my Elohei shall be my strength.
6 And He said, It is a light thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Yaakob, and to restore the Natzωrai (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?122042-John-10-30-%96-Jesus-is-The-Son-of-God&p=4892065&viewfull=1#post4892065) of Yisrael: I will also give you for a light to the Gentiles, that you may be My Salvation [Yeshua-ti] unto the end of the earth.
7 Thus says YHWH, Redeemer of Yisrael His Holy One, to him whom man despises, to him whom the nation abhors, to a servant of rulers; Kings shall see, and arise, princes also shall bow down for the sake of YHWH; for the Holy One Yisrael is faithful, and I have choose you [cf. LXX].
8 Thus says YHWH, In an acceptable time have I heard you, and in [I]the day of salvation have I helped you: and I will preserve you, [(n)etzare-ka, (ref. Isaiah 49:6, the preserved, LXX "diaspora", James 1:1, 1Peter 1:1)] and give you for a covenant of the people, [testimony-doctrine-food] to establish the earth, to cause to be inherited the desolate heritages:
9 That you may say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Show yourselves! They shall feed in the ways, [Psalm 22:26] and their pastures shall be in all high places.
10 They shall neither hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor the sun smite them: for he that has mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them [Rev 7:16-17].

daqq
January 1st, 2017, 07:43 PM
Abraham had quite a history with furnaces, didn't he? In the Midrash, Nimrod threw him into one (http://thetorah.com/why-the-midrash-has-abraham-thrown-into-nimrods-furnace/). And there's this story in Jubilees. (http://www.pseudepigrapha.com/jubilees/12.htm)

Also, speaking of alternate vowel pointings, UR (the proper name of Abram's birthplace) with a different vowel pointing means... furnace.

I was just looking at this again, and checked in the LXX, and noticed that in the LXX they rendered χωρα-χωρας in the place of Ur, which as you probably already know is typically understood in modern times as country, region, space, territory, land, and so on:

Genesis 11:28-31 LXX Brenton Translation
28 And Arrhan died in the presence of Tharrha his father, in the land in which he was born, in the country [χωρα] of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nachor took to themselves wives, the name of the wife of Abram was Sara, and the name of the wife of Nachor, Malcha, daughter of Arrhan, and he was the father of Malcha, the father of Jescha.
30 And Sara was barren, and did not bear children.
31 And Tharrha took Abram his son, and Lot the son Arrhan, the son of his son, and Sara his daughter-in-law, the wife of Abram his son, and led them forth out of the land [χωρας] of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Chanaan, and they came as far as Charrhan, and he dwelt there.

The two places where we see "country", (χωρα), and "land", (χωρας), in the above passage are the same two places where Ur appears in the Hebrew text. What is going on here? It appears they are rendering Ur/Or with a word that may actually mean both country and furnace at the same time, and thus, if this is so, then the rendering would be ingenious in that it might be read either way. If you look at the etymology of the name of the city Chorazin you will find that some lexicons state that the name of the city means "furnace of smoke", (G5523 (http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=5523)), which they get from one of the Hebrew words for furnace and the word for smoke, (Gen 15:17 - עשן).

כור - Deuteronomy 4:20 - 1 Kings 8:51 - Isaiah 48:10
כור - Kor - Kwr - Chor (χορ) - Chwra? (χωρα)?

χοραζιν = "furnace of smoke"
χορα (כור) + `ζιν (עשן) = עשן + כור
χοραζιν = כורעשן (silent `ayin = χορα-`ζιν)

So the following may also be an acceptable reading:

Genesis 11:28-31 LXX
28 And Arrhan died in the presence of Tharrha his father, in the land [γη] in which he was born, in the furnace [χωρα] of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nachor took to themselves wives, the name of the wife of Abram was Sara, and the name of the wife of Nachor, Malcha, daughter of Arrhan, and he was the father of Malcha, the father of Jescha.
30 And Sara was barren, and did not bear children.
31 And Tharrha took Abram his son, and Lot the son Arrhan, the son of his son, and Sara his daughter-in-law, the wife of Abram his son, and led them forth out of the land-furnace [χωρας] of the Chaldees, to go into the land [γη] of Chanaan, and they came as far as Charrhan, and he dwelt there.

Interesting eh? :)

Wick Stick
January 2nd, 2017, 12:36 PM
I was just looking at this again, and checked in the LXX, and noticed that in the LXX they rendered χωρα-χωρας in the place of Ur, which as you probably already know is typically understood in modern times as country, region, space, territory, land, and so on:

Genesis 11:28-31 LXX Brenton Translation
28 And Arrhan died in the presence of Tharrha his father, in the land in which he was born, in the country [χωρα] of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nachor took to themselves wives, the name of the wife of Abram was Sara, and the name of the wife of Nachor, Malcha, daughter of Arrhan, and he was the father of Malcha, the father of Jescha.
30 And Sara was barren, and did not bear children.
31 And Tharrha took Abram his son, and Lot the son Arrhan, the son of his son, and Sara his daughter-in-law, the wife of Abram his son, and led them forth out of the land [χωρας] of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Chanaan, and they came as far as Charrhan, and he dwelt there.

The two places where we see "country", (χωρα), and "land", (χωρας), in the above passage are the same two places where Ur appears in the Hebrew text. What is going on here? It appears they are rendering Ur/Or with a word that may actually mean both country and furnace at the same time, and thus, if this is so, then the rendering would be ingenious in that it might be read either way. If you look at the etymology of the name of the city Chorazin you will find that some lexicons state that the name of the city means "furnace of smoke", (G5523 (http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/strongs/ref/?stgh=greek&stnm=5523)), which they get from one of the Hebrew words for furnace and the word for smoke, (Gen 15:17 - עשן).

כור - Deuteronomy 4:20 - 1 Kings 8:51 - Isaiah 48:10
כור - Kor - Kwr - Chor (χορ) - Chwra? (χωρα)?

χοραζιν = "furnace of smoke"
χορα (כור) + `ζιν (עשן) = עשן + כור
χοραζιν = כורעשן (silent `ayin = χορα-`ζιν)

So the following may also be an acceptable reading:

Genesis 11:28-31 LXX
28 And Arrhan died in the presence of Tharrha his father, in the land [γη] in which he was born, in the furnace [χωρα] of the Chaldees.
29 And Abram and Nachor took to themselves wives, the name of the wife of Abram was Sara, and the name of the wife of Nachor, Malcha, daughter of Arrhan, and he was the father of Malcha, the father of Jescha.
30 And Sara was barren, and did not bear children.
31 And Tharrha took Abram his son, and Lot the son Arrhan, the son of his son, and Sara his daughter-in-law, the wife of Abram his son, and led them forth out of the land-furnace [χωρας] of the Chaldees, to go into the land [γη] of Chanaan, and they came as far as Charrhan, and he dwelt there.

Interesting eh? :)
Scholarship traces the origins of the story to Jubilees, which expands on Genesis. IN this case, it explains why Abram's brother Haran died before his father, a fact recorded in the Torah without explanation.

I only ever read half of Jubilees, concluding early on that it was a book of fairy tales penned to stoke nationalism by the Hasmoneans.

Perhaps you found more there than I did?

daqq
January 3rd, 2017, 07:43 AM
Scholarship traces the origins of the story to Jubilees, which expands on Genesis. IN this case, it explains why Abram's brother Haran died before his father, a fact recorded in the Torah without explanation.

I only ever read half of Jubilees, concluding early on that it was a book of fairy tales penned to stoke nationalism by the Hasmoneans.

Perhaps you found more there than I did?

You probably got further through the book of Jubilees than I did, (lol, but I probably skimmed more than half), imo the work has either been badly tinkered with, (maybe by some scribe or even an early Christian scholar with a hankering to prove a certain chronology), or the original author neither understood Enoch nor the Jubile-Yoblim cycles, (or both, which is probably more likely). The Enoch calendar in the section called the book of the luminaries is observed from somewhere further south, for example Egypt, and maybe even southern Egypt, (or maybe even what used to be considered northern Ethiopia), but not from the latitudes at Yerushalem or Qumran. I do not believe the Enoch calendar is a calendar of 364 days but rather 365 because the Day of Judgment is one day taken from the calendar which simply means that day is concealed, (Enoch 81:4-6 (https://sites.google.com/site/elaiasindex/equinoctial-calendar)). The book of 1Enoch is written from the perspective of the pre-flood age and the Day of Judgement is the missing day; the day of the coming of the deluge, (2/17, the Autumnal Equinox in that age).

Wick Stick
January 3rd, 2017, 12:55 PM
The Enoch calendar in the section called the book of the luminaries is observed from somewhere further south, for example Egypt, and maybe even southern Egypt, (or maybe even what used to be considered northern Ethiopia), but not from the latitudes at Yerushalem or Qumran.
Prior to the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery, the Book of Enoch was preserved only by the Ethiopian church. The only English translation I've seen is the one Charles did in 1917, and it was translated from Ethiopic. It would make sense that whatever was written there might have been... adjusted, shall we say?.. to fit the geography of those who were using it.

Do the copies among the DSS differ in these details and instead reflect the latitudes of the Essene community, or of Jerusalem? The question may not be answerable with current resources.


I do not believe the Enoch calendar is a calendar of 364 days but rather 365 because the Day of Judgment is one day taken from the calendar which simply means that day is concealed, (Enoch 81:4-6 (https://sites.google.com/site/elaiasindex/equinoctial-calendar)). The book of 1Enoch is written from the perspective of the pre-flood age and the Day of Judgement is the missing day; the day of the coming of the deluge, (2/17, the Autumnal Equinox in that age).
I read the whole link. I understood the theory of what you (you? can I assume this is your original work?) propose there, though I hardly can match it against reality to fact-check it. You seem to have spent much effort aligning your theory against Biblical dates, though. Or perhaps the other way round - inducing the theory from the dates?

A little disclosure here - I am absolutely terrible with dates and times. I can make plans and map things out with a calendar just fine, but for whatever reason, I can't seem to track exactly [i]when[i] I am very well. The calendar/clock in my mind seems to be permanently detached from reality. :dunce: I am fortunate that my work affords me an assistant whose job description is largely to hold me to my own schedule. :chuckle:

Ok then, takeaways, questions, and thoughts...

If you're right, there's a lot of poor translation in our Bibles. Also, the pattern built up in the OT is that of a much much shorter chronology than one would think at first.

How does Enoch's prophecy of weeks fit into your theory? I have been of the opinion that it described weeks of generations. Others have tried to make it into an affirmation of day-age theories, with which I disagree.

Comparing Genesis 8:22 to Isaiah 24:5 - is this a case of God fulfilling the promise in spite of man, or does man's transgression of the covenant undermine the promise? What about if we read 'the people of yisrael' for 'eretz?' Does the verse now predict the end of Yisrael as being related to their calendrical deficiencies?

How did you spend that much time in Daniel, on chronology, and never cite Daniel 7:25? You comments on the verse invited. Specifically, who is "he?"

daqq
January 3rd, 2017, 08:29 PM
Prior to the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery, the Book of Enoch was preserved only by the Ethiopian church. The only English translation I've seen is the one Charles did in 1917, and it was translated from Ethiopic. It would make sense that whatever was written there might have been... adjusted, shall we say?.. to fit the geography of those who were using it.

Do the copies among the DSS differ in these details and instead reflect the latitudes of the Essene community, or of Jerusalem? The question may not be answerable with current resources.


I read the whole link. I understood the theory of what you (you? can I assume this is your original work?) propose there, though I hardly can match it against reality to fact-check it. You seem to have spent much effort aligning your theory against Biblical dates, though. Or perhaps the other way round - inducing the theory from the dates?

A little disclosure here - I am absolutely terrible with dates and times. I can make plans and map things out with a calendar just fine, but for whatever reason, I can't seem to track exactly [i]when[i] I am very well. The calendar/clock in my mind seems to be permanently detached from reality. :dunce: I am fortunate that my work affords me an assistant whose job description is largely to hold me to my own schedule. :chuckle:

Ok then, takeaways, questions, and thoughts...

If you're right, there's a lot of poor translation in our Bibles. Also, the pattern built up in the OT is that of a much much shorter chronology than one would think at first.

How does Enoch's prophecy of weeks fit into your theory? I have been of the opinion that it described weeks of generations. Others have tried to make it into an affirmation of day-age theories, with which I disagree.

Comparing Genesis 8:22 to Isaiah 24:5 - is this a case of God fulfilling the promise in spite of man, or does man's transgression of the covenant undermine the promise? What about if we read 'the people of yisrael' for 'eretz?' Does the verse now predict the end of Yisrael as being related to their calendrical deficiencies?

How did you spend that much time in Daniel, on chronology, and never cite Daniel 7:25? You comments on the verse invited. Specifically, who is "he?"

If you wish to pick my brain I'm all for it but I work best with one main point at a time, (we all have our deficiencies, :)). The Land, (eretz), is every man, ("all Yisrael", whether male or female on the outside), and represents the flesh, (the outer bounds "profane area" of the body temple). The adamah-soil is the soil of the heart as in the parable of the sower; all things are expounded in the sevenfold parables of the Master, (sevenfold in meaning and teaching). All the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanan; and this no doubt includes the flood narrative which is taking ancient mythos, (Genesis tablet theory), and prophesying the fulfillment of the new man created as a new creation in Messiah at Golgotha, (which occurs in the "sixth [great] day" at the "end of the age"). The flood dates correspond to the ministry of Messiah because they are ultimately fulfilled in that acceptable year of the Father, (the commencement is announced in Luke 4:17-21 and Mark 1:15, and this acceptable year is "the day of YHWH", even the same τη κυριακη ημερα, [Rev 1:10]). The Testimony of Messiah now governs all interpretation of the Torah and Prophets, (because the Father sealed his Testimony and approved it for holy spiritual food to be consumed by His people), and all is therefore supernal and internal; for the words that he spoke are Spirit, and everything shall be fulfilled to each in his or her own appointed times, and thus it is ongoing, and none of it shall pass away, (except that it will be transformed in you as you are transformed in your walk). As for Daniel 7:25, is that correct or is it a type-o? Did you mean Daniel 9:25? It seems more like you probably meant Daniel 9:25. The Septuagint reading of the famous Daniel 9:24-27 passage differs greatly, that is, the Old Greek (http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/27_009.htm) differs greatly, (the church has replaced the Old Greek text with the Theodotion version which, although it came well before the Hebrew Masorete text, seems to agree quite well with the later Hebrew, [hint, hint]). :)

Wick Stick
January 3rd, 2017, 10:16 PM
Danny 7:25 - "change times and law" seems relevant to a discussion of changing the feasts and the chronology of the Jewish calendar. No?

daqq
January 3rd, 2017, 11:26 PM
Danny 7:25 - "change times and law" seems relevant to a discussion of changing the feasts and the chronology of the Jewish calendar. No?

Ah, so you did mean that, my apologies as I simply thought you meant Daniel 9 because of the discussion in that page which was referenced. A discussion of the four dominions, (literal historic understanding), would be necessary in order to see my understanding of those things: for that is precisely what happened, (they changed the times, not me, lol). The lion's wings of a golden eagle were plucked out by Matthias and his talmidim, (with axes), a true and final historical literal fulfillment concerning the lion or lioness. And that did not bode well for the twofold Tzaddukim raised up on the one side of the Kohanim, (the other side, the Qumranite-Zadokites, are similarly Tzaddokim), nor did it bode well for the four-headed party of the P'rushim with their long blue striped tzitziyot for show in the four corners of the wings of their curves, (beware the leaven of Herod, and of the leaven of the Sadducees, and of the leaven of the Pharisees; for the kingdom of the heavens is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, until the whole was leavened). Once upon a trial there rose up a minyan, a minyan, a scribe, and the Ab Bet Din with the Nasiy Prince; the Sanhedrin criminal court of twenty three: ten toes, ten horns, a scribe, (from the sea of the people), and a two-horned beast out of the Land with two little horns like a lamb but speaking like a drakon, (Ananus ben Seth, Ab Bet Din, and Yoseph Kaiaphas, Nasiy Prince). A fourth generation beast, dreadful and terrible, having great teeth of iron: teeth like swords, and jaw teeth like knives, to devour the needy from off the Land and the ebionim from among men. Why do you suppose the heart of the man Nebuchadnezzar was changed from the heart of a man to the heart of a beast in Daniel 4:16? And why then is the lion or lioness, (Septuagint), given the heart of a man in Daniel 7:4? And why then does the composite beast of Revelation 13:1-6 speak with the mouth of a lion? It is because, as usual, Messiah expounds all things; and therefore what comes forth from the mouth proceeds from the heart: if one speaks like a lion it is because the heart has been given over to the first beast of a lion or lioness; and the next beast of man is like unto a she-bear robbed of her cubs, (there are four generations to the first "age" of the man like the four seasons in the full circuit of a year: autumn, winter, spring, and the summer of your harvest, lol). This matter is by decree of the seven holy Watchers, and by the command of the Memra-Word of the holy ones, to the intent that the living may know that the Most High rules in the dominion(s) of men, and will give it over to whomsoever He will, and sets up over it the humblest of men. But as for a historical fulfillment perspective having come first:

1) Herod (Lion)
1a) Herodians (Matthew 22:16 - Mark 3:6 - Mark 12:13)

2) Kohanim - Leviim (Bear)
2a) Tzaddukim - Sadducees (Chief Kohanim - Tzadoki - Leviim (Yerushalem))
2b) Tzaddokim - Essenes (Tzadoki - Leviim - Ebionim (Dam-meshek Qumran - "blood inheritor"))

3) Perushim (Pharisees (Leopard))
3a) Beit Hillel (Perushim)
3b) Hasidim (http://www.hope-of-israel.org/hasidim.htm) (Perushim - Ebionim (Galil))
3c) Beit Shammai (Perushim)
3d) Kanaim (Zealots (Shammai Perushim))

4) Sanhedrin Criminal Court of 23 (only rises from the pit when an execution is at hand, lol).

freelight
January 4th, 2017, 12:23 AM
The Septuagint reading of the famous Daniel 9:24-27 passage differs greatly, that is, the Old Greek (http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/27_009.htm) differs greatly, (the church has replaced the Old Greek text with the Theodotion version which, although it came well before the Hebrew Masorete text, seems to agree quite well with the later Hebrew, [hint, hint]). :)


What I would give for a exact duplicate of Origen's original Hexapla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexapla)! :) - hopefully its discovered intact one day, but would it see the light of day? Its tragic that some amazing volumes of ancient literature once preserved in the Library of Caesarea are lost forever, unless copies exist yet to be discovered. - Origen and Clement of Alexandria are among my favorite church fathers, - I have an affinity with the Alexandrian school ;)

daqq
January 4th, 2017, 12:54 AM
What I would give for a exact duplicate of Origen's original Hexapla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexapla)! :) - hopefully its discovered intact one day, but would it see the light of day? Its tragic that some amazing volumes of ancient literature once preserved in the Library of Caesarea are lost forever, unless copies exist yet to be discovered. - Origen and Clement of Alexandria are among my favorite church fathers, - I have an affinity with the Alexandrian school ;)

Origen was considered the father of exegesis, (not sure if he still is now that the church anathematized him in the second council of Constantinople), he is considered the first to critically exegete the koine Greek writings and come up with "a theologic understanding" based in his exegesis of various texts and contextual statements, (and he certainly knew the language of koine because it was still somewhat current in his day, or at least he was not far removed from it). He asserted that "the Christ", as the Word, was "a god", (from the lack of an article in John 1:1), which is likewise still found in the extant Coptic texts of John 1:1 to this day, (Coptic has an indefinite article, such as "a" or "an", and the indefinite article is used in the Coptic text, though the Coptic church has apparently been admonished by the momma church not to read that text aloud in their services). He likewise mentions what most agree is probably the Protoevangelium of James, (Apokalypse Yaakob, the Tzaddik, [with a writer's ink horn by his side]). The reason why the Byzantine text family is so much more prevalent is only because it was allowable in the eastern empire for the common people to have in their possession the scripture writings. This means that the Byzantine text family has been copied and recopied thousands and thousands of times more than the Alexandrian family of texts. As for myself this means also that the Byzantine family is by default much more susceptible to scribal error, alterations to the text, and church dogma having crept in over time simply because of the fact that the Byzantine family was recopied so much more abundantly over such a long stretch of time. For the same reason I trust the Westcott Hort for the NT because it is based in the Alexandrian family of texts; a fair standard text in English translation would of course be the ASV, (the KJV NT follows the Textus Receptus which was openly stated to have been haphazardly compiled by Erasmus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus) [merely so as to showcase his fabulous new Latin translation he was trying to sell; however no one wanted the Latin but fell in love with his Textus Receptus junk text, lol]).

freelight
January 4th, 2017, 12:38 PM
Origen was considered the father of exegesis, (not sure if he still is now that the church anathematized him in the second council of Constantinople), he is considered the first to critically exegete the koine Greek writings and come up with "a theologic understanding" based in his exegesis of various texts and contextual statements, (and he certainly knew the language of koine because it was still somewhat current in his day, or at least he was not far removed from it). He asserted that "the Christ", as the Word, was "a god", (from the lack of an article in John 1:1), which is likewise still found in the extant Coptic texts of John 1:1 to this day, (Coptic has an indefinite article, such as "a" or "an", and the indefinite article is used in the Coptic text, though the Coptic church has apparently been admonished by the momma church not to read that text aloud in their services). He likewise mentions what most agree is probably the Protoevangelium of James, (Apokalypse Yaakob, the Tzaddik, [with a writer's ink horn by his side]). The reason why the Byzantine text family is so much more prevalent is only because it was allowable in the eastern empire for the common people to have in their possession the scripture writings. This means that the Byzantine text family has been copied and recopied thousands and thousands of times more than the Alexandrian family of texts. As for myself this means also that the Byzantine family is by default much more susceptible to scribal error, alterations to the text, and church dogma having crept in over time simply because of the fact that the Byzantine family was recopied so much more abundantly over such a long stretch of time. For the same reason I trust the Westcott Hort for the NT because it is based in the Alexandrian family of texts; a fair standard text in English translation would of course be the ASV, (the KJV NT follows the Textus Receptus which was openly stated to have been haphazardly compiled by Erasmus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus) [merely so as to showcase his fabulous new Latin translation he was trying to sell; however no one wanted the Latin but fell in love with his Textus Receptus junk text, lol]).

Bingo.

Origen also was learned in Hebrew, hence his expertise in knowing both Hebrew and Greek was invaluable in his transmission of the scriptures. I like Westcott and Hort translation too....even if the KJV Only folks demonize it. Those folks are nuts. Lol

Zeke
January 4th, 2017, 09:32 PM
The Spirit speaks the same "NOW" regardless of what is historically recorded by different sects who claim ownership.

freelight
January 7th, 2017, 12:23 AM
The Spirit speaks the same "NOW" regardless of what is historically recorded by different sects who claim ownership.

Yes, Absolute Reality is being what it IS (in the absolute sense), always evertlastingly so, everpresently NOW ;) - yet all relative truths arise within the greater matrix of this Infinite One, and is 'relative' because such points of reference are conditioned/modified by space and time, further being filtered thru our finite minds. Only as we tap into the Infinite Mind and Spirit, do we come to reflect, mirror and intuit infinity. Only the infinite can know the infinite.

We do enjoy dissecting, joining, correlating, intersecting various points within the cosmic membrane.

What 'Yeshua' says is a wonderful subject however, provided we have some authentic recordings of his actual words, although it might be likely that some 'nuances' or 'inflections' have been changed, corrupted or transfigured over the centuries, hence the wonderful non-canonical books and apocryphal gospels to wet our palate, that might be fragments of his 'lost' teaching. Its a wonderful journey, don't you think? :surf:

balut55
January 7th, 2017, 07:31 PM
He has definitely brought the sword to the Philippines. 9 out of ten philipinos agree with summary executions. Is Isis a sword? Isis is married to Osiris the God of death. Their child is Horus ,the all seeing eye of the NWO. TPTB even use Egyptian God names right in you face. Jesus comes to divide and the Pope comes to make peace. Lol. One of them is wrong. Guess who.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

balut55
January 7th, 2017, 07:35 PM
Red against blue. Democrats against republicans. Crips against bloods. Red and blue become purple in the forced peace of the NWO.


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daqq
January 8th, 2017, 01:25 AM
Red against blue. Democrats against republicans. Crips against bloods. Red and blue become purple in the forced peace of the NWO.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

I already have a new world order. In a [strong] head Elohim cuts down the shamayim and the eretz: and the eretz is desert-wasteland, and empty, and the darkness upon its face is deep: and Ruach Elohim broods over its countenance, the waters. And Elohim says, "Let there be light", and there is light. So Elohim approves the light, because it is good, and Elohim separates between the light and the darkness: and Elohim calls the light, "Yom", and the darkness He calls "Laylah", and there is evening, and there is morning, the waning and the waxing of an hour, Yom Echad. I am the light of the world: a seven congregation city laying outstretched upon the mountain of Elohim cannot be hidden. :)

daqq
January 8th, 2017, 03:10 AM
I already have a new world order. In a [strong] head Elohim cuts down the shamayim and the eretz: and the eretz is desert-wasteland, and empty, and the darkness upon its face is deep: and Ruach Elohim broods over its countenance, the waters. And Elohim says, "Let there be light", and there is light. So Elohim approves the light, because it is good, and Elohim separates between the light and the darkness: and Elohim calls the light, "Yom", and the darkness He calls "Laylah", and there is evening, and there is morning, the waning and the waxing of an hour, Yom Echad. I am the light of the world: a seven congregation city laying outstretched upon the mountain of Elohim cannot be hidden. :)

I beheld the eretz, and behold, it was a desert-wasteland, and empty, and there was no light to the shamayim. I beheld the mountains, and behold, they trembled, and all the hillocks lightly swayed. I looked, and behold, there was not an adam, and all the birds of the shamayim were fled. I beheld, and behold, the fruitful garden was a desolate wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down from the Presence of YHWH, and by His burning passion. For thus did YHWH say, The whole eretz shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end thereof. Because of this the eretz shall mourn, and the shamayim from above shall be blacked out: for I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not turn repent, neither will I turn back from it. The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every outpost shall be forsaken, and not a one shall dwell therein. So there was darkness over all the eretz from the sixth hour to the ninth hour.

balut55
January 8th, 2017, 09:00 AM
God bless.


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balut55
January 8th, 2017, 09:01 AM
The non-believers need to know what is coming and we should warn them that there will gnashing of teeth. Yeshua is king. Read the Bible.


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daqq
January 8th, 2017, 12:11 PM
The non-believers need to know what is coming and we should warn them that there will gnashing of teeth. Yeshua is king. Read the Bible.


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Every man has his own "world" to deal with. Prepare yourself, and let Elohim judge those on the outside, for Yeshua Says, "The kingdom of Elohim does not come with ocular-visual-observation: neither shall they say, 'Look, over here!', or 'See, over there!', for behold, the kingdom of Elohim is within you!" (Luke 17:20-21). :)

balut55
January 8th, 2017, 06:58 PM
Yes sir. Salvation is individual.


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daqq
February 1st, 2017, 05:37 AM
I read the whole link. I understood the theory of what you (you? can I assume this is your original work?) propose there, though I hardly can match it against reality to fact-check it. You seem to have spent much effort aligning your theory against Biblical dates, though. Or perhaps the other way round - inducing the theory from the dates?

A little disclosure here - I am absolutely terrible with dates and times. I can make plans and map things out with a calendar just fine, but for whatever reason, I can't seem to track exactly [i]when[i] I am very well. The calendar/clock in my mind seems to be permanently detached from reality.

So then, if you count by the daily prayer times, the first hour of prayer is the third hour of the day on the sundial. That means that from the fifth hour to the sixth hour of the day is the third hour when counting by the prayer times because the first hour of prayer is the third hour of the day. The time at about the beginning of the sixth hour of the day on the sundial, (John 19:14), is the same time that is about the close of the third hour going by the daily prayer times, (Mark 15:25).


By the way, in case you did not know, that was a reference to the Pesakh Seder from Exodus 12:8, (also, you shall leave nothing till your morning come), and Ezekiel 3:1-2, 3, 14, and Zechariah 5:1-4, and Revelation 10:9-10, and Replies #212 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?122839-The-quot-Church-quot-at-Acts-2-is-NOT-the-Body-of-Christ&p=4919384&viewfull=1#post4919384) , #213 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?122839-The-quot-Church-quot-at-Acts-2-is-NOT-the-Body-of-Christ&p=4919385&viewfull=1#post4919385), #227 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?122839-The-quot-Church-quot-at-Acts-2-is-NOT-the-Body-of-Christ&p=4919687&viewfull=1#post4919687), #258 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?122839-The-quot-Church-quot-at-Acts-2-is-NOT-the-Body-of-Christ&p=4920161&viewfull=1#post4920161), and #277 (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?122839-The-quot-Church-quot-at-Acts-2-is-NOT-the-Body-of-Christ&p=4920285&viewfull=1#post4920285). :)

Shimon Kurenaio thus carried the lower stave, (σταυρος), but Messiah bore his own stave, (σταυρος), having been tied to it, that is, the upper stave or "tree of life" in the right hand side of the Sefer, ("In the kephalidi-header of the Sefer it is written concerning me"). The two staves with the Lamb of Elohim affixed to them were then hanged upon the tree, (ξυλον), as it is mentioned in Acts 5:30, 10:39, and Gal 3:13.

RBBI
February 1st, 2017, 09:16 AM
Very ancient things . . .


http://www.andrewcollins.com/pics/fig.%2010%20-%20vulture%20sone%20Pillar%2043%20Cygnus%20marked. jpg
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/magicians.htm

"Journey of the Soul"
"It is more likely that Pillar 43 depicts the death journey of the soul of the deceased, or indeed that of the shaman (see below). This would be the removal of a soul from its physical environment, represented by the headless figure with an erection at the base of the stone - via Scorpius, signified by the scorpion, to its final destination among the stars. This destination, arguably the entrance to the "upper world" or sky-world of Eurasian shamanic tradition, appears to have been located in the vicinity of Cygnus, represented on the pillar by the main vulture, where the soul of the individual is shown as the ball above its left wing."

"Ercan goes on to link the vulture imagery on Gbekli Tepe's Pillar 43 with the act of disposing of the dead through the practice of excarnation, along with its allied association with the transmigration of the soul: "There were no graves 12,000 years ago. The dead bodies were left outdoors and raptors [that is, vultures] ate them. In this way, people believed the soul goes to the sky." This, he said, was called "burial in the sky," i.e. sky burial, and is depicted in the carved art at Gbekli Tepe, and also at the 9,000-year-old Neolithic city of atalhyk in southern-central Anatolia. Here, shown in one particular painted fresco, are two vultures at the top of a wooden excarnation tower in the act of feasting on a human corpse, which as at Gbekli Tepe is shown as a headless figure (see fig. 13). Yet next to this scene are two more vultures on another excarnation tower that appear to be taking under their wings a ball-like head, this time with a mouth and two eyes. What we are almost certainly seeing here are the birds accepting into their care the soul of the deceased person in preparation for its journey to the next world."
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/magicians.htm

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/signs-of-worlds-first-pictograph-found-in-gobeklitepe (http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/signs-of-worlds-first-pictograph-found-in-gobeklitepe-.aspx?PageID=238&NID=85438&NewsCatID=375)
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/worlds-oldest-pictograph-discovered-gobekli-tepe (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/worlds-oldest-pictograph-discovered-gobekli-tepe-shows-decapitated-head-vulture-wing-1511137)

Galgal Rephaim is also thought to have been a location for "Sky Burials"
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.393573.1320347232!/image/3637497818.jpg_gen/derivatives/headline_857x482/3637497818.jpg
(http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/morbid-theory-in-mystery-of-israel-s-answer-to-stonehenge-1.393568)http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/morbid-theory-in-mystery-of-israel-s-answer-to-stonehenge (http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/morbid-theory-in-mystery-of-israel-s-answer-to-stonehenge-1.393568)

Although most here would likely find this appalling I think you might find it quite interesting that this ancient symbolism of the journey of the soul to the heavens upon death is actually found in the very earliest portions of Genesis. In fact it concerns the covenant with Abraham which appears to have been misread or pointed incorrectly in the Masorete Hebrew Text, (nashab-disperse for yashab-dwell-sit while nashab still does not even appear to be in the text despite the modern English renderings to the contrary), which is unfortunate because without this symbolism there are many prophetic statements and curious things said by both Moses and the Prophets which cannot be understood apart from this ancient symbolism. Even the idea that the descendants of Abraham would be as the stars of the heavens comes from this symbolism. In the LXX version of Genesis 15:11 we do not read that Abram chased away the fowls which came down upon the pieces but rather that he sat down among them revealing that the symbolism is of Abram himself, being slain, and giving himself willingly in sacrifice, (but of course it is only symbolism because, as Paul says, Elohim desires us to offer ourselves as living sacrifices unto Him). It is again the same old time symbolism of the flesh being put to death, or mortified as Paul likes to say, even given to the fowls of the heavens and the beasts of the field, (which is found in much prophetic typology, allegory, and symbolism).

Genesis 15:11 LXX Brenton English Translation
11 And birds came down upon the bodies, even upon the divided parts of them, and Abram sat down by them.

Yet even Brenton does not go far enough in his rendering, imo, because the word used for sat down by is rather sat down together with them, (the pieces, which represent his own self in sacrifice, while the fowls devoured the flesh from off the pieces).

Genesis 15:11 OG LXX
15:11 κατεβη δε ορνεα επι τα σωματα τα διχοτομηματα αυτων και συνεκαθισεν αυτοις αβραμ
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/01_015.htm

G4776 συγκαθίζω sugkathizo (sng-ka-thiy'-zō) v.
to give (or take) a seat in company with.
[from G4862 and G2523]
KJV: (make) sit (down) together

Other key symbols are also in the Hebrew such as tannur "fire pot", (little "lake of fire"?).

Genesis 15:9-18
9 And He said to him, Take for Me the treble of an heifer, and the treble of a she-goat, and the treble of a ram, and a turtledove; even a young nestling.
10 And he took unto Him all these, and parted them in the midst, and laid each piece one against his fellow: but the tsippor divided he not.
11 Moreover the fowls descended upon their divided carcasses and Abram sat together with them.
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.
13 And He said to Abram, Know of a surety that your seed shall be a stranger in a land which is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years:
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be interred in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come here again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
17 And it came to pass that when the sun went down, and it was twilight, behold a smoking tannur-fire-pot, and burning lamps of fire, which passed amidst those pieces.
18 In this day cut YHWH with Abram a covenant, saying, Unto your seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

Ezekiel 39:17-20 The Scriptures (TS2009)
17 And you, son of man, thus said the Master יהוה, Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves and come, gather from all around to My slaughtering which I am slaughtering for you, a great slaughtering on the mountains of Yisraĕl, and you shall eat flesh and drink blood.
18 Eat the flesh of the mighty, drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams and lambs, of goats and bulls, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And you shall eat fat till you are filled, and drink blood till you are drunk, at My slaughtering which I am slaughtering for you.
20 And you shall be satisfied at My table with horses and riders, with mighty men and with all the men of battle, declares the Master יהוה.

Revelation 19:17-20 The Scriptures (TS2009)
17 And I saw one messenger standing in the sun, and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, Come and gather together for the supper of the great Elohim,
18 to eat the flesh of sovereigns, and the flesh of commanders, and the flesh of strong ones, and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the sovereigns of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to fight Him who sat on the horse and His army.
20 And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he led astray those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped his image. The two were thrown alive into the lake of fire burning with sulphur.

Deut 28:26, 1Sam 17:46, Isa 18:5-7, Jer 7:32-34, Jer 15:1-3, Jer 16:1-4, Jer 19:3-7, Jer 34:19-20.

Ah, but who is willing to make such a self-sacrificing covenant with the Most High? Your eyes of the flesh seeing all things according to the eyes and mind of the flesh will dissolve while you stand upon your feet; your tongue of the flesh speaking carnal things of the carnal flesh man will dissolve in your mouth, (Zechariah 14:12-16), and no doubt the like symbolism is found in many other prophetic passages which not only the Testimony of Yeshua in the Gospel accounts but even the writings of Paul likewise explain in the doctrine of "cutting off the flesh", the deeds of the flesh, and the old man carnal nature.

. . . So Moshe like a Cherub took up the bones of Yoseph out of Egypt, when bnei Yisrael went forth out of Egypt, (O Egypt, great of flesh!), for Yoseph had straightly sworn bnei Yisrael, saying, Elohim will surely visit you; and you shall carry up my bones out of here with you, (for when they had spiced-embalmed the body of Yoseph, they placed his carcass in an Ark in Egypt, (and the stone coffer was of the same cubic internal volume as the Ark-box of the Covenant with the Krubim on the atonement cover)). . . :)

Excellent! Blessings...

1Mind1Spirit
February 1st, 2017, 02:13 PM
In the LXX version of Genesis 15:11 we do not read that Abram chased away the fowls which came down upon the pieces but rather that he sat down among them revealing that the symbolism is of Abram himself, being slain, and giving himself willingly in sacrifice, (but of course it is only symbolism because, as Paul says, Elohim desires us to offer ourselves as living sacrifices unto Him). It is again the same old time symbolism of the flesh being put to death, or mortified as Paul likes to say, even given to the fowls of the heavens and the beasts of the field, (which is found in much prophetic typology, allegory, and symbolism).

Interesting....

A couple weeks ago I woke up hearing the words don't mess with that bird.

My son-in-law's dad and I went out to check our traps and low and behold we had the biggest red tailed hawk I've ever seen in one of our traps.

We turned it loose, but I've been wonderin' ever since why I was told not to mess with it, interesting.....:think:

RBBI
February 1st, 2017, 05:10 PM
@ Daqq...I want to make sure I understand what you are talking about. What is the right hand stave? The side of the scroll? Peace

daqq
February 1st, 2017, 05:28 PM
Interesting....

A couple weeks ago I woke up hearing the words don't mess with that bird.

My son-in-law's dad and I went out to check our traps and low and behold we had the biggest red tailed hawk I've ever seen in one of our traps.

We turned it loose, but I've been wonderin' ever since why I was told not to mess with it, interesting.....:think:

In that sense eagles, hawks, every raven after his kind, liyliyt screetchowls and the like, are unclean fowls of the air: they will nest in the exalted heights of your rock crevices and cavities and begin hatching eggs. Before you know it your branches are full of rapacious watchers eyeing the weak, defenseless, and poor on the desert floor below. There is one decree for such a tree: but all things work together for the good to them that love Elohim. :)

daqq
February 1st, 2017, 05:29 PM
@ Daqq...I want to make sure I understand what you are talking about. What is the right hand stave? The side of the scroll? Peace

Amen, yes, from the link to the other thread where you also were.

Edit @RBBI (http://theologyonline.com/member.php?u=17494) — Particularly this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhSdSZ71A6Y

In the mgillat-kephalidi of the Sefer it is written concerning me . . .
That is, the crown-header of the Sefer, in the right hand side, Breshiyt-Genesis 1:1-5.

Notice he pierces or punctures "earlets" into the ends of the scroll with an awl, (or aul). However the entire roll is comprised of many souls having been "knit together" as one. Thus both the Hebrew, (Psalm 40:6), and the Greek, (Psalm 40:6 OG LXX (39:7 (http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/19_039.htm)) has ωτια, "earlets", while Hebrews 10:5 has σωμα-body), are correct because the "body", (σωμα), of Heb 10:5 is a metonymy (http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/9289/how-is-the-septuagint-interpretation-of-psalms-406-reconciled-with-the-hebrew-t) for the entire "volume" of the "body" of the scroll, (κεφαλιδι-κεφαλις is rendered "volume" in the KJV but is also used in the LXX for chapiters, crowns, headers, and may even refer to a "head chapter" or header in a writing). That is precisely what this is; the header or head-section of the scroll, like a crown or the chapiter of the Sefer, (Genesis 1:1-5). Thus the lower σταυρος-stave borne by Shimon is of the erets-land-earth, (Genesis 1:1), while the top σταυρος-stave borne by Messiah reaches to the shamayim-heavens, (Genesis 1:1).

RBBI
February 1st, 2017, 07:00 PM
Amen, yes, from the link to the other thread where you also were.

Edit @RBBI (http://theologyonline.com/member.php?u=17494) — Particularly this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhSdSZ71A6Y

In the mgillat-kephalidi of the Sefer it is written concerning me . . .
That is, the crown-header of the Sefer, in the right hand side, Breshiyt-Genesis 1:1-5.

Notice he pierces or punctures "earlets" into the ends of the scroll with an awl, (or aul). However the entire roll is comprised of many souls having been "knit together" as one: thus both the Hebrew, (Psalm 40:6), and the Greek, (Psalm 40:6 OG LXX and Hebrews 10:5), are correct because the "body", (σωμα), of Heb 10:5 is a metonymy (http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/9289/how-is-the-septuagint-interpretation-of-psalms-406-reconciled-with-the-hebrew-t) for the entire "volume" of the "body" of the scroll, (κεφαλιδι-κεφαλις is rendered "volume" in the KJV but is also used in the LXX for chapiters, crowns, headers, and may even refer to a "head chapter" or header in a writing). That is precisely what this is; the header or head-section of the scroll, like a crown or the chapiter of the Sefer, Genesis 1:1-5. Thus the lower σταυρος-stave borne by Shimon is of the erets-land-earth, (Gen 1:1), while the top σταυρος-stave borne by Messiah reaches to the shamayim-heavens, (Gen 1:1).

Ok, thanks, I see it. Peace