PDA

View Full Version : How the Gospel Makes Calvinism, Catholicism, All Religions as Worthless



Robert Pate
July 11th, 2015, 05:48 AM
Paul said, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION TO EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES" Romans 1:16.

Paul didn't say that Calvinism or Catholicism was the power of God unto salvation. No, He said that it is the GOSPEL that is the power of God unto salvation. Why is it that you can't believe Paul?

Paul also said, "By the deeds or works of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight" Romans 3:20.

Deeds or works of the law are any religious thing that we do. The words "Law" and "Religion" basically mean the same thing. Paul could have said... "By the works of your RELIGION no flesh will be justified". Instead of using the word "religion" Paul used the word "law". They both mean the same thing. When you are doing the law, you are doing religion.

The reason that the law or religion does not justify is because we are sinners. God does not accept the works or the religion of sinners. The only thing that God honors in the Bible is faith, mainly faith in his Son Jesus Christ.

The Gospel is the "good news" that we have ALREADY been reconciled to God by his Son Jesus Christ. We don't have to become a member of the Catholic church to be saved, nor do we have to believe that we have been predestinated. Not only did God reconcile us to himself by Jesus Christ, he reconciled the Whole world to himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

He did this while we were still sinners, "And you that were sometimes alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet NOW has he reconciled" Colossians 1:21.

It is a done deal. All that God asks you to do to be part of this act of reconciliation is to believe on his Son Jesus Christ. Nothing else is required. Jesus said, "Whosoever that believes in me (Jesus) shall not perish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16.

When you believe on Jesus God will give you his Holy Spirit that will change your life and will make you the kind of person that you really want to be.

Cruciform
July 11th, 2015, 01:32 PM
Deeds or works of the law are ANY religious thing that we do.
This assumption is the Fatal Flaw of Pate's false "gospel," as has already been demonstrated here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4352960&postcount=58).

End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Robert Pate
July 11th, 2015, 02:04 PM
This assumption is the Fatal Flaw of Pate's false "gospel," as has already been demonstrated here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4352960&postcount=58).

End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+



You did not define what a WORK OF THE LAW is.

The Bible defines it as any religious thing that you do to try and merit salvation.

"Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the WORKS OF THE LAW. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone" Romans 9:32.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the WORKS OF THE LAW, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ and not by the WORKS OF THE LAW: for by the WORKS OF THE LAW no flesh shall be justified" Galatians 2:16.

"This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith" (the Gospel) Galatians 3:2.

"He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit and works miracles among you, does he do it by the WORKS OF THE LAW, or by the hearing of faith" (The Gospel) Galatians 3:5.

"For as many as are under the WORKS OF THE LAW are under the curse: for it is written, cursed is every one that does not continue in all things that are written in the book of the law to do them" Galatians 3:10.

I will hold my position that any religious thing that you do is a WORK OF THE LAW.

Cruciform
July 11th, 2015, 02:19 PM
You did not define what a WORK OF THE LAW is.
The cited source in Post #2 leads to detailed definitions of Paul's "works of the law." You've already been thoroughly and decisively answered there.

Again: End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Robert Pate
July 11th, 2015, 03:30 PM
The cited source in Post #2 leads to detailed definitions of Paul's "works of the law." You've already been thoroughly and decisively answered there.

Again: End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


The law is the very nature and the character of God.

The "Works of the Law" is doing things or trying to be like God.

Your religion teaches that one should do the "Works of the Law", Which does not justify.

Cruciform
July 11th, 2015, 03:59 PM
The law is the very nature and the character of God.The "Works of the Law" is doing things or trying to be like God.Your religion teaches that one should do the "Works of the Law", Which does not justify.
Already decisively answered (Post #2).

Robert Pate
July 11th, 2015, 04:23 PM
Already decisively answered (Post #2).

Catholics believe that the "Works of the Law" justify.

"If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema. Canon #9.

The "Works of the Law" is what is required.

Cruciform
July 11th, 2015, 05:55 PM
Catholics believe that the "Works of the Law" justify."If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema. Canon #9.The "Works of the Law" is what is required.
Post #2

Robert Pate
July 12th, 2015, 04:45 AM
Post #2

The big question is... Do good works and obedience to the law justify?

Catholics believe that they are justified by works and obedience to the law. But it is not that simple. They believe that it is because of the infused righteousness of Christ that they are able to do good works and keep the commandments of Jesus and become pleasing to God.

Paul never taught such a thing.

Paul taught that faith and the Holy Spirit come to us by hearing and believing the Gospel, Romans 10:17 also Galatians 3:2. The Holy Spirit does not justify. Christ is the justifier, Romans 3:26.

Paul wrote, "But to him that does no works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) are counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The difference between Christianity and the Catholic church is that the Catholic church believes that we are justified by works and obedience to the law. The Bible teaches that we are justified by faith and not works or obedience to the law, Romans 4:1, 2, 3. 4.

Cruciform
July 12th, 2015, 04:15 PM
The big question is... Do good works and obedience to the law justify?
Post #2

Robert Pate
July 12th, 2015, 05:35 PM
Post #2

It is very obvious that you do not want to debate justification.

I can't say that I blame you. You don't have a case.

Paul said, "For if Abraham were justified by works, he would have something to glory about: but not before God. For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness" Romans 4:2, 3.

Faith counts for righteousness. NOT WORKS.

Cruciform
July 12th, 2015, 06:31 PM
It is very obvious that you do not want to debate justification.
No need, since your notion of Paul's "works of the law" has already been shown to be utterly false in Post #2 above and, thus, your "gospel" is likewise false.

There's really no more to say on the matter.

End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Robert Pate
July 12th, 2015, 08:00 PM
No need, since your notion of Paul's "works of the law" has already been shown to be utterly false in Post #2 above and, thus, your "gospel" is likewise false.

There's really no more to say on the matter.

End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


The Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19, is false?

You are without hope.

Cruciform
July 12th, 2015, 09:44 PM
The Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:19, is false?
Already answered (Post #2).

Back to Post #12 above.

Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 04:30 AM
Already answered (Post #2).

Back to Post #12 above.


You refuse to debate justification because you have nothing to debate with.

You place Catholicism over the Bible and even over the Gospel.

beloved57
July 13th, 2015, 05:40 AM
pate


Faith counts for righteousness. NOT WORKS.

Faith is a Work of the Law, its something required of man to do Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So Faith is not a saved mans righteousness, Christ is, the object of his Faith is his Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

So you are trusting in your faith as your righteousness, and unfortunatley not Christ as your righteousness, the object of Faith !

Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 07:08 AM
pate



Faith is a Work of the Law, its something required of man to do Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So Faith is not a saved mans righteousness, Christ is, the object of his Faith is his Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

So you are trusting in your faith as your righteousness, and unfortunatley not Christ as your righteousness, the object of Faith !

I have never taught that we are saved by our faith.

What I have taught is that we are saved by the doing and the dying of Jesus.

Faith is what makes the Gospel ours.

beloved57
July 13th, 2015, 07:10 AM
pate


I have never taught that we are saved by our faith.

You said your faith is your righteousness !

pate:


Faith counts for righteousness. NOT WORKS.

Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 10:35 AM
pate



You said your faith is your righteousness !

pate:


You are dull of hearing because you don't want the truth.

The Bible says that faith is counted for righteousness, Romans 4:5.

beloved57
July 13th, 2015, 10:39 AM
You are dull of hearing because you don't want the truth.

The Bible says that faith is counted for righteousness, Romans 4:5.

Ok you believe that your faith is counted as righteousness, and not Christ! That's the difference between you and I, Christ is my Righteousness, the object of my Faith !

Robert Pate
July 13th, 2015, 10:53 AM
Ok you believe that your faith is counted as righteousness, and not Christ! That's the difference between you and I, Christ is my Righteousness, the object of my Faith !


Take a deep breath and try to open your closed mind.

Romans 4:5 says, "But to him that does NO WORKS, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (here it comes) HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS"

Did you get that? Faith is counted for righteousness.

The reason that faith is counted for righteousness is because it is our faith that brings us into union with Christ who is our righteousness.

Cruciform
July 13th, 2015, 10:21 PM
You refuse to debate justification because you have nothing to debate with.
Already answered (Post #2).

Back to Post #12 above.


You place Catholicism over the Bible and even over the Gospel.

You place Pate-ism over the Bible and even over the Gospel.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 05:14 AM
Already answered (Post #2).

Back to Post #12 above.



You place Pate-ism over the Bible and even over the Gospel.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


You are an unfortunate person.

You have gone down to the city dump to find pearls and precious gems, when all of the time they were in your pocket.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 05:57 AM
Take a deep breath and try to open your closed mind.

Romans 4:5 says, "But to him that does NO WORKS, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (here it comes) HIS FAITH IS COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS"

Did you get that? Faith is counted for righteousness.

The reason that faith is counted for righteousness is because it is our faith that brings us into union with Christ who is our righteousness.

So you see the difference ? You say God counts mans faith as righteousness, True Believers know that God counts Christ as Our Righteousness, who is the Object of Our Spirit given Faith ! He was revealed to Our Spirit given Faith as Our Righteousness !

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 and not in the natural man ! The natural man cannot please God Rom 8:8 which Faith does Heb 11:6 !

All for whom Christ Lived and died for, He Himself Believed for them first of all !

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 06:54 AM
So you see the difference ? You say God counts mans faith as righteousness, True Believers know that God counts Christ as Our Righteousness, who is the Object of Our Spirit given Faith ! He was revealed to Our Spirit given Faith as Our Righteousness !

Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 and not in the natural man ! The natural man cannot please God Rom 8:8 which Faith does Heb 11:6 !

All for whom Christ Lived and died for, He Himself Believed for them first of all !


You are insulting Christianity by saying that Jesus believes for us.

All of those that were burned at the stake because of their witness for Christ and his Gospel, will condemn you in the judgment.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 06:57 AM
You are insulting Christianity by saying that Jesus believes for us.

All of those that were burned at the stake because of their witness for Christ and his Gospel, will condemn you in the judgment.

You the one teaching that God counts mans faith as his righteousness ! I teach that God counts Christ as mans righteousness, if He died for them !

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 07:27 AM
You the one teaching that God counts mans faith as his righteousness ! I teach that God counts Christ as mans righteousness, if He died for them !


"Faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

This righteousness is to our account. We don't have it yet.

There is only one righteousness that is imputed to us because of our faith, it is the righteousness of Christ.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 08:48 AM
"Faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

This righteousness is to our account. We don't have it yet.

There is only one righteousness that is imputed to us because of our faith, it is the righteousness of Christ.

Again, you believe that mans faith is his righteousness, True Believers believe Christ is Our Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 12:53 PM
Again, you believe that mans faith is his righteousness, True Believers believe Christ is Our Righteousness 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption


The righteousness of Christ is not yours if you don't by your own free will believe in Jesus.

We receive the righteousness of Christ by faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 01:49 PM
The righteousness of Christ is not yours if you don't by your own free will believe in Jesus.

We receive the righteousness of Christ by faith in the doing and the dying of Jesus.

Those Christ Lived for, kept the Law for are Righteous. Are you saying that someone who has obeyed God's Law perfectly is not Righteous ?

By the Obedience of One, Many are made Righteous Rom 5:19, now are you calling God a Liar ?

Robert Pate
July 14th, 2015, 03:29 PM
Those Christ Lived for, kept the Law for are Righteous. Are you saying that someone who has obeyed God's Law perfectly is not Righteous ?

By the Obedience of One, Many are made Righteous Rom 5:19, now are you calling God a Liar ?

True, but Jesus is not going to believe for you.

beloved57
July 14th, 2015, 03:36 PM
True, but Jesus is not going to believe for you.

He kept the Law for them He Lived and died for. Didnt He believe while doing that ? Scripture says He believed/Trusted Heb 2:13

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

In order to keep the Law, you must first believe in God !

Cruciform
July 14th, 2015, 03:48 PM
You are an unfortunate person. You have gone down to the city dump to find pearls and precious gems, when all of the time they were in your pocket.
You can go ahead and just apply all that to yourself.

Posts #2 and #12.

fishrovmen
July 14th, 2015, 05:57 PM
You can go ahead and just apply all that to yourself.

Posts #2 and #12.

I don't think that Pate has any room for gems in his pocket. They are already filled with slander and false witness.

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 06:42 AM
I don't think that Pate has any room for gems in his pocket. They are already filled with slander and false witness.

Your as blind as a bat.

beloved57
July 15th, 2015, 07:27 AM
True, but Jesus is not going to believe for you.

This foolish statement is like saying Christ did not obey the Law for them !:cigar:

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 10:13 AM
This foolish statement is like saying Christ did not obey the Law for them !:cigar:

The law has nothing to do with faith and believing. Instead of twisting and perverting the scriptures, why don't you just try believing them.

"He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that does not believe is condemned already, because he does not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God" John 3:18.

beloved57
July 15th, 2015, 10:17 AM
The law has nothing to do with faith and believing. Instead of twisting and perverting the scriptures, why don't you just try believing them.

"He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that does not believe is condemned already, because he does not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God" John 3:18.

If Jesus kept the Law for them He had Faith for them, for Faith is that which ought to have been done!Matt 23:23 ! You calling Jesus Christ a liar, a deceiver?

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 11:15 AM
If Jesus kept the Law for them He had Faith for them, for Faith is that which ought to have been done!Matt 23:23 ! You calling Jesus Christ a liar, a deceiver?


You have 0 scripture that says Jesus has faith for us.

You keep coming up with these Calvinist fairy tales.

beloved57
July 15th, 2015, 11:18 AM
You have 0 scripture that says Jesus has faith for us.

You keep coming up with these Calvinist fairy tales.

Jesus Kept the Law, He had Faith, for Faith is required in Keeping God's Law Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Are you denying that Jesus says Faith ought to be done in keeping the Law ?

aikido7
July 15th, 2015, 11:23 AM
The tearing of the temple curtain the moment Jesus died on the cross is a powerful metaphor that points to the truth that with Jesus there is no longer a mediator between humans and God.

No more middleman--church, priest, clergy, or even a religious hero.

Open access to the divine and the sacred for all.

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 02:00 PM
The tearing of the temple curtain the moment Jesus died on the cross is a powerful metaphor that points to the truth that with Jesus there is no longer a mediator between humans and God.

No more middleman--church, priest, clergy, or even a religious hero.

Open access to the divine and the sacred for all.


Excellent observation.

The tearing of the curtain that covered the Holy of Holies, was the destruction of the temple.

It was the end of the law and the end of religion.

This why Paul said, "The just shall live by faith".

Cruciform
July 15th, 2015, 04:11 PM
Your as blind as a bat.
Pot, meet Kettle.

Robert Pate
July 15th, 2015, 05:18 PM
Pot, meet Kettle.

Catholicism like Calvinism is the religion of man.

Cruciform
July 15th, 2015, 09:15 PM
Catholicism like Calvinism is the religion of man.
Posts #2 and #12.

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 07:18 AM
Posts #2 and #12.

Why do people worship the pope, who is a sinner? Romans 3:10.

Cruciform
July 16th, 2015, 02:42 PM
Why do people worship the pope, who is a sinner? Romans 3:10.
Catholics do not "worship" the pope. We worship God and God alone. Sorry for your confusion. (I thought you said you used to be a Catholic... :think: )

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 04:19 PM
Catholics do not "worship" the pope. We worship God and God alone. Sorry for your confusion. (I thought you said you used to be a Catholic... :think: )

I have seen people worshiping the pope on TV.

Why does the pope sit on a throne?

Grosnick Marowbe
July 16th, 2015, 04:25 PM
I have seen people worshiping the pope on TV.

Why does the pope sit on a throne?

I had a long deceased Father-in-Law (a devout Catholic) say that: "The
Pope is INFALLIBLE while sitting on the throne!"

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 04:34 PM
I had a long deceased Father-in-Law (a devout Catholic) say that: "The
Pope is INFALLIBLE while sitting on the throne!"


He thinks that he is God.

Cruciform
July 16th, 2015, 04:34 PM
I have seen people worshiping the pope on TV.
No you haven't. Again: I thought you used to be a Catholic. Why, then, the ignorant statement?


Why does the pope sit on a throne?
In the church of every bishop is a ceremonial chair---Greek: kathedras)---which is why their churches are called "cathedrals." The chair of the Bishop of Rome (Pope) is symbolic of the authority of his ecclesial office and function.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
July 16th, 2015, 04:37 PM
He thinks that he is God.
Why are you lying (Prov. 19:5)? If you had really been a Catholic, you would know better than to make such a manifestly ignorant claim.

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 04:38 PM
No you haven't. Again: I thought you used to be a Catholic. Why, then, the ignorant statement?


In the church of every bishop is a ceremonial chair---Greek: kathedras)---which is why their churches are called "cathedrals." The chair of the Bishop of Rome (Pope) is symbolic of the authority of his ecclesial office and function.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Your pope thinks that he is God, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4.

Cruciform
July 16th, 2015, 04:54 PM
Your pope thinks that he is God, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, 4.
Already answered (Post #52).

Robert Pate
July 16th, 2015, 05:12 PM
Already answered (Post #52).


Why do all of the Catholic Bishops dress like Pharisees?

Cruciform
July 16th, 2015, 05:35 PM
Why do all of the Catholic Bishops dress like Pharisees?
They don't. Rather, they dress in ceremonial garments patterned after those ordained by God for the priests of Israel (Ex. 28 and 29).

Also, see this (http://taylormarshall.com/2014/05/theology-catholic-vestments.html).



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Dona Bate
July 16th, 2015, 06:12 PM
I have seen people worshiping the pope on TV.

Why does the pope sit on a throne?
You are mistaken Robert. But didn't you once worship a gospel choir whilst watching your tv.... REMEMBER?...

That was the night that you had a mental breakdown in front of the tv whilst sitting on your throne... You should have gone to see a doc instead of wasting a life for over 40 years!

:sigh:

God Bless!

Dona Bate
July 16th, 2015, 06:27 PM
Paul said, ....Romans 1:16.


Paul also said, ...Romans 3:20.


....2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

Colossians 1:21.

John 3:16.

....

These are ALL Catholic teachings Robert. So no need to tell the Church who authored the Bible what she wrote. The Bible is in fact based on Catholic teachings rather than the other way around.

Which is why Protestants claim to have Bible based churches, but we have a Church based Bible.

God Bless!

everready
July 16th, 2015, 06:44 PM
Catholics do not "worship" the pope. We worship God and God alone. Sorry for your confusion. (I thought you said you used to be a Catholic... :think: )

Jack Chick had this to say, he's the guy some people love to hate.

Dear ones in Christ,

This September, for the first time, a pope will speak to a joint session of Congress.

Greatly loved and admired, Pope Francis is possibly the most powerful and richest man on earth today. To over a billion followers, he is Jesus Christ on earth.

When he arrives on our shores, he'll be received as a king, loved and lifted up by the media. Congressmen and politicians will fall all over themselves to greet him. Roman Catholics will feel like God Himself has come to America. Just like President George W. Bush, when asked what he saw in the eyes of Pope Benedict XVI. He replied, "God." But Pope Francis outdoes all as a religious star. The coming of this Jesuit-trained pope will be televised worldwide.

In the past, mighty men of God like Martin Luther, John Calvin, Roger Williams, John Knox, John Wesley, Spurgeon, Moody and Billy Sunday wouldn't be caught dead shaking hands with the pope. All of them in one voice would call Pope Francis "antichrist" (against, and in the place of, Christ).


everready

Cruciform
July 16th, 2015, 10:31 PM
Jack Chick had this to say...
:darwinsm:... Well, that's really all we need to know...



"The Nightmare World of Jack T. Chick" (http://www.catholic.com/documents/the-nightmare-world-of-jack-t-chick)





Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

everready
July 16th, 2015, 11:10 PM
:darwinsm:... Well, that's really all we need to know...



"The Nightmare World of Jack T. Chick" (http://www.catholic.com/documents/the-nightmare-world-of-jack-t-chick)





Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

How did the world treat Jesus Christ when he walked the earth?


everready

Cruciform
July 16th, 2015, 11:31 PM
How did the world treat Jesus Christ when he walked the earth?
Jesus Christ was the divine Son of God. Jack Chick is no more than a thoroughly-discredited ignoramus (Post #60). Big difference there.

everready
July 16th, 2015, 11:51 PM
Jesus Christ was the divine Son of God. Jack Chick is no more than a thoroughly-discredited ignoramus (Post #60). Big difference there.

i know Jesus, how was he treated?

everready

1Mind1Spirit
July 17th, 2015, 12:30 AM
Jesus Christ was the divine Son of God. Jack Chick is no more than a thoroughly-discredited ignoramus (Post #60). Big difference there.

C'mon .

Reconcile this or shut up.

Who speaks?

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron ;


3 Forbidding to marry , and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:


5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained .



LAY DOWN LAME OR PREPARE TO BE SLAMMED.

Robert Pate
July 17th, 2015, 10:13 AM
C'mon punk.

Reconcile this or shut up.

Who speaks?

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron ;


3 Forbidding to marry , and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:


5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained .



LAY DOWN LAME OR PREPARE TO BE SLAMMED.


I think that he got slammed. There is no responce.

Cruciform
July 17th, 2015, 01:38 PM
C'mon punk.
Lose the name-calling. Just a heads up.


1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Sounds an awful lot like the 50,000+ competing and contradictory recently-invented, man-made non-Catholic sects in existence today---including yours---with more being concocted every week.


2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron ;
See above.


3 Forbidding to marry , and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Decisively answered here (http://jimmyakin.com/doctrines-of-demons), here (http://catholicpoint.blogspot.com/2012/07/1timothy-43-and-gnostic-docetism-heresy.html), and here (http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/doesnt-1-timothy-43-disprove-the-priesthood). Try again.


4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Amen. See just above.


6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained .
Amen.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Cruciform
July 17th, 2015, 01:40 PM
I think that he got slammed. There is no responce.
:darwinsm:... See Post #66 above.

1Mind1Spirit
July 17th, 2015, 02:52 PM
Decisively answered here (http://jimmyakin.com/doctrines-of-demons), here (http://catholicpoint.blogspot.com/2012/07/1timothy-43-and-gnostic-docetism-heresy.html), and here (http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/doesnt-1-timothy-43-disprove-the-priesthood). Try again.






Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


Priests were forbidden to marry until recently.

Catholicism still demands abstinence from meats.

So decisively an epic fail.


http://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2012/03/why-do-catholics-abstain-from-meat.html

From what foods have Christians traditionally abstained?

It may be somewhat surprising for modern-day Christians and Catholics of the West to learn that the traditional practice of the Church has included abstinence not only from flesh-meat, but also from all dairy products (e.g. milk and cheese), eggs, and even shell-fish.
During the season of Lent, Christians abstained from these foods not only on Fridays but every day! It was the forty-plus days without eggs which gave rise to the joyful egg-hunts on Easter Morning (also, read how St. Mary Magdalene gave us the Easter Egg, see [here]). And, since without milk one cannot make pancakes, the English often celebrated Shrove Tuesday with a pancake supper.
These details of our history will be a great help to understanding why it is that Christians abstain from meat, rather than wine or fish.

Cruciform
July 17th, 2015, 09:59 PM
Priests were forbidden to marry until recently. Catholicism still demands abstinence from meats.
Already answered (Post #66).

Robert Pate
July 18th, 2015, 07:52 AM
Priests were forbidden to marry until recently.

Catholicism still demands abstinence from meats.

So decisively an epic fail.


http://newtheologicalmovement.blogspot.com/2012/03/why-do-catholics-abstain-from-meat.html

From what foods have Christians traditionally abstained?

It may be somewhat surprising for modern-day Christians and Catholics of the West to learn that the traditional practice of the Church has included abstinence not only from flesh-meat, but also from all dairy products (e.g. milk and cheese), eggs, and even shell-fish.
During the season of Lent, Christians abstained from these foods not only on Fridays but every day! It was the forty-plus days without eggs which gave rise to the joyful egg-hunts on Easter Morning (also, read how St. Mary Magdalene gave us the Easter Egg, see [here]). And, since without milk one cannot make pancakes, the English often celebrated Shrove Tuesday with a pancake supper.
These details of our history will be a great help to understanding why it is that Christians abstain from meat, rather than wine or fish.


In the Gospel we have the freedom to eat anything that we want and at anytime that we want.

1Mind1Spirit
July 18th, 2015, 02:57 PM
Already answered (Post #66).

No.

That was a lame attempt to confuse fasting with abstinence.

It fooled nobody except you.

1Mind1Spirit
July 18th, 2015, 02:59 PM
In the Gospel we have the freedom to eat anything that we want and at anytime that we want.

Yep.

Including during the deceived ones' unbiblical Lent.:chuckle:

Robert Pate
July 18th, 2015, 03:24 PM
Yep.

Including during the deceived ones' unbiblical Lent.:chuckle:


The Catholic religion is a religion of bondage to the law.

And if you don't do the religion, you are anathema.

Cruciform
July 18th, 2015, 05:15 PM
No.
I'm content to let readers consider the material I provided (Post #66) and make up their own minds. Note, however, that 1M1S has failed to offer any substantive refutation whatsoever of the content I posted. (Sorry, bare denial doesn't count.)

Dona Bate
July 18th, 2015, 06:34 PM
The Catholic religion is a religion of bondage to the law.

And if you don't do the religion, you are anathema.
Who better than St. Paul himself to answer Pate leaving him and anybody who truly believes scripture in absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the lawless Pate and his error filled man made doctrines are to be denounced by all Christians....

"Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14

God Bless!

Robert Pate
July 19th, 2015, 06:26 AM
Who better than St. Paul himself to answer Pate leaving him and anybody who truly believes scripture in absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the lawless Pate and his error filled man made doctrines are to be denounced by all Christians....

"Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:14

God Bless!

2 Corinthians 6:14 is good advice. Don't be married or partners with unbelievers.

I know of some Christians that married Catholics. It didn't work.

Dona Bate
July 19th, 2015, 07:16 PM
2 Corinthians 6:14 is good advice. Don't be married or partners with unbelievers.

I know of some Christians that married Catholics. It didn't work.
You know some Pateism followers, who got married in a Catholic Church, promising to raise their children as Catholics?

Or

Perhaps you know some 'Christians' who don't follow Pateism yet are still considered to be Christian? (Which also oh so obviously contradicts Pateism's erroneous 'Nothing...' doctrine).

Which is it?

Either way, the intended insult has just backfired!

:think:


God Bless!

Robert Pate
July 20th, 2015, 09:22 AM
You know some Pateism followers, who got married in a Catholic Church, promising to raise their children as Catholics?

Or

Perhaps you know some 'Christians' who don't follow Pateism yet are still considered to be Christian? (Which also oh so obviously contradicts Pateism's erroneous 'Nothing...' doctrine).

Which is it?

Either way, the intended insult has just backfired!

:think:


God Bless!


Does this mean that I have been anathema?

BoyStan
November 16th, 2016, 04:31 AM
What is the point of arguing theology with someone who has no intention of listening. The only thing they do is contradict whatever is stated. Their thinking shows no understanding of the truth of God;s word. This sort of 'debate' is a waste of time, futile and darkness

Robert Pate
November 17th, 2016, 09:20 AM
You know some Pateism followers, who got married in a Catholic Church, promising to raise their children as Catholics?

Or

Perhaps you know some 'Christians' who don't follow Pateism yet are still considered to be Christian? (Which also oh so obviously contradicts Pateism's erroneous 'Nothing...' doctrine).

Which is it?

Either way, the intended insult has just backfired!

:think:


God Bless!

What is Pateism? I have no special doctrine or religion, all that I have is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the word of God.

I do not consider any religion that is not based upon the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ to be Christian.

Catholics think that the Gospel is, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. When in reality it is God's way of justifying the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciling us and the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. No Catholic religion needed.

fishrovmen
November 17th, 2016, 10:33 AM
What is Pateism? I have no special doctrine or religion


Sure you do. Your beliefs such as God doesn't see people, God is not active in the world, God sees all people as "in Christ", God imputes sins back to people after they were already forgiven etc.

beloved57
November 17th, 2016, 10:44 AM
What is Pateism? I have no special doctrine or religion, all that I have is the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the word of God.

I do not consider any religion that is not based upon the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ to be Christian.

Catholics think that the Gospel is, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. When in reality it is God's way of justifying the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciling us and the world unto himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. No Catholic religion needed.

Pateism is like all false religions of man, which denies salvation by Grace, and promoting salvation by the will and works of man.

Robert Pate
November 17th, 2016, 10:47 AM
Sure you do. Your beliefs such as God doesn't see people, God is not active in the world, God sees all people as "in Christ", God imputes sins back to people after they were already forgiven etc.

You have a real problem believing that God can impute sin back to people.

The scripture is in the Bible. "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" Romans 4:8.

So it is very apparent that God can and will impute sin. "Jesus is Lord" this means that he has conquered sin. You might even say that he is the Lord over sin, he can now do with it what he wants, it is at his disposal. If he wants to he can impute it back to unbelievers.

beloved57
November 17th, 2016, 10:54 AM
You have a real problem believing that God can impute sin back to people.

The scripture is in the Bible. "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" Romans 4:8.

So it is very apparent that God can and will impute sin. "Jesus is Lord" this means that he has conquered sin. You might even say that he is the Lord over sin, he can now do with it what he wants, it is at his disposal. If he wants to he can impute it back to unbelievers.

Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies and unbelievers. Rom 5:10

fishrovmen
November 17th, 2016, 12:05 PM
You have a real problem believing that God can impute sin back to people.

The scripture is in the Bible. "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" Romans 4:8.

So it is very apparent that God can and will impute sin. "Jesus is Lord" this means that he has conquered sin. You might even say that he is the Lord over sin, he can now do with it what he wants, it is at his disposal. If he wants to he can impute it back to unbelievers.

Verse snatchers such as yourself fail to see the context in which the verse you tore from it's rightful place amongst many verses that unfold to us the gracious blessings of faith in Christ.
I have never seen anyone use a single verse to try a prove a man made doctrine, (pateism) not understanding that the verse they use says the exact opposite. Paul is talking about receiving blessings and being spared condemnation. You are using the verse to try and prove cursing and condemnation.

Robert Pate
November 17th, 2016, 02:52 PM
Verse snatchers such as yourself fail to see the context in which the verse you tore from it's rightful place amongst many verses that unfold to us the gracious blessings of faith in Christ.
I have never seen anyone use a single verse to try a prove a man made doctrine, (pateism) not understanding that the verse they use says the exact opposite. Paul is talking about receiving blessings and being spared condemnation. You are using the verse to try and prove cursing and condemnation.

Its important that every scripture fits the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ so that you have correct doctrine.

Romans 4:8 fits the Gospel just fine.

Jesus reconciles the world to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19 and because of that God is at peace with the world, Colossians 1:20. But that does not mean that their will not be a judgment of believers and unbelievers when Christ returns.

Romans 4:8 is in the Bible, deal with it.

fishrovmen
November 17th, 2016, 06:24 PM
Its important that every scripture fits the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ so that you have correct doctrine.

Romans 4:8 fits the Gospel just fine.

Jesus reconciles the world to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19 and because of that God is at peace with the world, Colossians 1:20. But that does not mean that their will not be a judgment of believers and unbelievers when Christ returns.

Romans 4:8 is in the Bible, deal with it.

I love Romans 4:8! and it fits perfectly right where Paul wrote it (which is a quote from Psalm 32).
It fits perfectly with all the verses that surround it.
Hopefully, one day you will come to understand that once sins are forgiven, God doesn't change His mind.
That is the hope of the believer in Christ; in His faithfulness to not charge our sins against us.
Romans 4:8 is not about what God might or might not do, it is about what is ALREADY DONE!! if you truly believed that Jesus atoned for ALL the sins of the whole world, then they are all GONE...no where to be found...forgiven fully and completely and finally!
Abraham is a real person who exhibited real faith and received a real righteousness that was credited to his account. Through him, countless peoples have also received a real blessing of righteousness by faith; not Jews only, but also Gentiles. It was not by works, but by promise. The same promise that I, myself, through faith, am believing that my sins are fully, completely and finally forgiven for EVER.
If you want to believe in some kind of temporary forgiveness of sins, or the forgiveness of only some sins, or a god who changes it's mind or whatever you actually believe, then that's on you.
But we who understand what Paul is writing in Romans 4, will continue to glory in the promises of the unchanging God of Abraham, that we, through faith such as Abraham's, will continue to trust that our sins are removed from us forever.

beloved57
November 17th, 2016, 06:30 PM
Its important that every scripture fits the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ so that you have correct doctrine.

Romans 4:8 fits the Gospel just fine.

Jesus reconciles the world to God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19 and because of that God is at peace with the world, Colossians 1:20. But that does not mean that their will not be a judgment of believers and unbelievers when Christ returns.

Romans 4:8 is in the Bible, deal with it.

You teach that sinners Christ came to save still wind up lost in their sins, so denying that He is a Saviour !

Nanja
November 17th, 2016, 06:36 PM
You teach that sinners Christ came to save still wind up lost in their sins, so denying that He is a Saviour !

Yep! That's an abomination to the Truth of what Christ accomplished for all them He died for!

~~~

fishrovmen
November 17th, 2016, 06:46 PM
Its important that every scripture fits the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ so that you have correct doctrine.


If your supposed "Historical Gospel" that includes all your unique Pateisms is the standard by which you fit the Holy scriptures, then it is no wonder that your beliefs are unorthodox.
Instead of starting with Brinsmead and trying to fit the Scriptures to his nonsense, start and finish with the unchanging,eternal, God breathed word that the Almighty wrote!

Robert Pate
November 17th, 2016, 06:47 PM
I love Romans 4:8! and it fits perfectly right where Paul wrote it (which is a quote from Psalm 32).
It fits perfectly with all the verses that surround it.
Hopefully, one day you will come to understand that once sins are forgiven, God doesn't change His mind.
That is the hope of the believer in Christ; in His faithfulness to not charge our sins against us.
Romans 4:8 is not about what God might or might not do, it is about what is ALREADY DONE!! if you truly believed that Jesus atoned for ALL the sins of the whole world, then they are all GONE...no where to be found...forgiven fully and completely and finally!
Abraham is a real person who exhibited real faith and received a real righteousness that was credited to his account. Through him, countless peoples have also received a real blessing of righteousness by faith; not Jews only, but also Gentiles. It was not by works, but by promise. The same promise that I, myself, through faith, am believing that my sins are fully, completely and finally forgiven for EVER.
If you want to believe in some kind of temporary forgiveness of sins, or the forgiveness of only some sins, or a god who changes it's mind or whatever you actually believe, then that's on you.
But we who understand what Paul is writing in Romans 4, will continue to glory in the promises of the unchanging God of Abraham, that we, through faith such as Abraham's, will continue to trust that our sins are removed from us forever.


You would like to do away with the judgment. That is typical of a Calvinist. There will be a judgment when Christ returns. If you are not found to be "In Christ" your sins will be imputed back to you and you will be condemned, Romans 4:8.

fishrovmen
November 17th, 2016, 07:01 PM
You would like to do away with the judgment. That is typical of a Calvinist. There will be a judgment when Christ returns. If you are not found to be "In Christ" your sins will be imputed back to you and you will be condemned, Romans 4:8.

I never once said that there will be no judgment. Typical of you to bear false witness and try to deflect the attention due your unbiblical doctrines.

fishrovmen
November 17th, 2016, 07:49 PM
You would like to do away with the judgment. That is typical of a Calvinist. There will be a judgment when Christ returns. If you are not found to be "In Christ" your sins will be imputed back to you and you will be condemned, Romans 4:8.

You make a mockery of the suffering of Christ and all that He went through to secure our salvation. It is unfathomable that you would think that the Father allowed His only begotten Son, who had no sin of His own, yet was made sin for us; to suffer rejection, betrayal, mockings, scourgings, plucking the beard, a crown of thorns, severe grief and the burden of bearing the Father's wrath and so much more. Only to temporarily forgive sins and make all of that suffering null and void when He charges those sins back to peoples accounts? Seriously? B57 is right on this one, that you teach that many for whom Christ suffered death shall yet perish due to those very sins that He supposedly offered propitiation.

Robert Pate
November 17th, 2016, 09:23 PM
You make a mockery of the suffering of Christ and all that He went through to secure our salvation. It is unfathomable that you would think that the Father allowed His only begotten Son, who had no sin of His own, yet was made sin for us; to suffer rejection, betrayal, mockings, scourgings, plucking the beard, a crown of thorns, severe grief and the burden of bearing the Father's wrath and so much more. Only to temporarily forgive sins and make all of that suffering null and void when He charges those sins back to peoples accounts? Seriously? B57 is right on this one, that you teach that many for whom Christ suffered death shall yet perish due to those very sins that He supposedly offered propitiation.

Christ suffering was not in vain. He victoriously defeated sin. death and the devil and in doing so secured heaven for all that believe in him. The message of the New Testament is that Jesus is Lord. He is Lord over ALL THINGS, Colossians 1:20. He now has the right to impute sins back to those who are not believers.

Nothing that Christ has done or is will be yours if it is not received by faith, John 1:12.

In the judgment you will be judged to see if you have faith in Christ or if you just have faith in a religion. It appears that like B57 you have faith in a doctrine or a religion.

Robert Pate
November 17th, 2016, 09:27 PM
I never once said that there will be no judgment. Typical of you to bear false witness and try to deflect the attention due your unbiblical doctrines.

Then what do you believe that the purpose of the judgment is? It will be the judgment of believers and unbelievers. If you are not found to be "In Christ" your sins will be imputed back to you and you will perish.

fishrovmen
November 18th, 2016, 06:31 AM
Then what do you believe that the purpose of the judgment is? It will be the judgment of believers and unbelievers. If you are not found to be "In Christ" your sins will be imputed back to you and you will perish.

To render to each man according to his deeds, just like Paul wrote.

fishrovmen
November 18th, 2016, 06:48 AM
Christ suffering was not in vain. He victoriously defeated sin. death and the devil and in doing so secured heaven for all that believe in him. The message of the New Testament is that Jesus is Lord. He is Lord over ALL THINGS, Colossians 1:20. He now has the right to impute sins back to those who are not believers.

Nothing that Christ has done or is will be yours if it is not received by faith, John 1:12.

In the judgment you will be judged to see if you have faith in Christ or if you just have faith in a religion. It appears that like B57 you have faith in a doctrine or a religion.

Just stick with what has been revealed by the Holy Spirit in the Holy Scriptures and don't make stuff up and you will do well.

Robert Pate
November 18th, 2016, 08:09 AM
Just stick with what has been revealed by the Holy Spirit in the Holy Scriptures and don't make stuff up and you will do well.

If its not in the Bible I don't embrace it and neither should you. All of this religious stuff like Calvinism and Catholicism is nothing but garbage.

Jesus has victoriously met all of the requirements for our salvation and justification. We are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. All that we need to do is enter into his rest, Hebrews 4:10.