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Jacob
June 23rd, 2015, 11:19 PM
Can you say you obey God?

Obedience to God is a good thing. What does it mean to obey God?

Is obedience something you have to work at? Does it require effort?

Can a person obey God without being born again meaning born of God by the Spirit of God according to the word of God?

Is obedience to God only possible if you have the Spirit of God dwelling in you? Does a person obey God only by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and no other way?

What are good works if not that obedience which comes about in our lives by the power of God and the working of His Spirit in our lives?

I speak about Christians who began by the Spirit in faith, who live by the Spirit and know they are to walk by the Spirit, and are led by the Spirit.

Is it true you can only obey by the Spirit and all other efforts to obedience fail or are regarded as nothing? Salvation is not by works, including sanctification not being by works.

But it sounds wrong to discourage people from obedience, so we should not. Rather we should encourage people to salvation and preach about what is necessary for salvation.

First, Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation. Second, your own works are not necessary for salvation. Third, we are saved by faith and do good works because we are saved and in the power of the Spirit of God that they would bring glory to God and not to ourselves.

But may God be pleased in you when you do what is right in His name at the leading of His Spirit.

Acts 5:32 NASB - 32 "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

Galatians 5:22-23 NASB - 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

1 Peter 1:2 NASB - 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.

Jacob
June 23rd, 2015, 11:29 PM
Galatians 3:2 NASB, Romans 8:9 NASB.

Jacob
June 24th, 2015, 01:22 PM
Do you make any effort to obey God? Do you simply obey and feel it is no effort at all?

Ben Masada
June 24th, 2015, 02:58 PM
Do you make any effort to obey God? Do you simply obey and feel it is no effort at all?

No effort at all. Just make it your second nature. It doesn't mean at all though that you won't commit a sin; but, all we need to do immediately is to set things right with God through repentance and return to the obedience of God's Law, so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow.(Isa. 1:18,19)

Jacob
June 24th, 2015, 03:08 PM
Romans 8:3-4 NASB - 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
No effort at all. Just make it your second nature. It doesn't mean at all though that you won't commit a sin; but, all we need to do immediately is to set things right with God through repentance and return to the obedience of God's Law, so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow.(Isa. 1:18,19)Can a person obey God's commands by the Spirit of God who dwells in him, without necessarily being perfectly obedient to the Law?

Romans 2:14-16 NASB - 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

Ben Masada
June 24th, 2015, 03:16 PM
Romans 8:3-4 NASB - 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.Can a person obey God's commands by the Spirit of God who dwells in him, without necessarily being perfectly obedient to the Law?

Romans 2:14-16 NASB - 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

You are no longer making any sense Untellectual. What's the difference between obeying the Law for the sake of the Law and obeying the Law for the sake of faith? As long as the Law is being obeyed, that's what counts. It does not matter the reason you choose to obey.

Jacob
June 24th, 2015, 03:21 PM
You are no longer making any sense Untellectual. What's the difference between obeying the Law for the sake of the Law and obeying the Law for the sake of faith? As long as the Law is being obeyed, that's what counts. It does not matter the reason you choose to obey.
What I mean is that I don't know what commands are involved in the change of law spoken of in the new testament writings, while at the same time I recognize the Law of Moses including the Ten Commandments as pertaining to the nation of Israel while Gentiles who did not have the Law still know a difference between right and wrong.

If I obey commands found in the New Testament writings but don't obey all 613 commands found in the Torah, where am I at then?

I am a circumcised Gentile who obeys the Ten Commandments and kosher but does not wear tzit-tzit.

I believe it is possible to obey the Law. I know the words Law as pertaining to the whole of the Law of Moses or Torah is different than simply obey God's commands found in the Bible (which people might look at differently).

So if a person knows a command of God they should obey it.

Some people tell those who are not under the Law by birth to not obey the commands found in the Law but only in the New Testament writings. But I personally don't believe obeying God's commands found in the Law is forbidden.

Ben Masada
June 24th, 2015, 03:42 PM
What I mean is that I don't know what commands are involved in the change of law spoken of in the new testament writings, while at the same time I recognize the Law of Moses including the Ten Commandments as pertaining to the nation of Israel while Gentiles who did not have the Law still know a difference between right and wrong.

If I obey commands found in the New Testament writings but don't obey all 613 commands found in the Torah, where am I at then?

I am a circumcised Gentile who obeys the Ten Commandments and kosher but does not wear tzit-tzit.

I believe it is possible to obey the Law. I know the words Law as pertaining to the whole of the Law of Moses or Torah is different than simply obey God's commands found in the Bible (which people might look at differently).

So if a person knows a command of God they should obey it.

Some people tell those who are not under the Law by birth to not obey the commands found in the Law but only in the New Testament writings. But I personally don't believe obeying God's commands found in the Law is forbidden.

Confusion. You are confused and confusing. Never mind the Jewish rituals you mention above and concentrate in the Decalogue. Never mind the 613 commandments pertained to the Jews and concentrate on the Noahide laws. Never mind the circumcision. You are not Jewish. Now, if you ever decide to become a Jew, then yes, you must mind all the above. You don't have to anyway as there is no need. Just be a righteous Gentile and every thing will be okay. But there is something you must not forget: Never try to use the Tanach to claim fulfillment in the gospel of Paul.

Jacob
June 24th, 2015, 03:46 PM
Confusion. You are confused and confusing. Never mind the Jewish rituals you mention above and concentrate in the Decalogue. Never mind the 613 commandments pertained to the Jews and concentrate on the Noahide laws. Never mind the circumcision. You are not Jewish. Now, if you ever decide to become a Jew, then yes, you must mind all the above. You don't have to anyway as there is no need. Just be a righteous Gentile and every thing will be okay. But there is something you must not forget: Never try to use the Tanach to claim fulfillment in the gospel of Paul.The New Testament writings follow the Old Testament writings.

The new covenant came after the old covenant.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets. He did not come to abolish them but to fulfill.

I did observe Passover this year Ben Masada.

Jacob
June 24th, 2015, 05:22 PM
I know the words Law as pertaining to the whole of the Law of Moses or Torah is different than simply obey God's commands found in the Bible (which people might look at differently).Having read the New Testament, I could know what a command of God is.

There is the Law of God or laws of God, and the law of God. There is commands of God and any command of God. The words in their most basic form are law and command.

There is a command of God, commands of God, a commandment of God, and commandments of God. These are all the word of God being that God's commands come from God. It is His word that we obey. The Bible is the word of God. The word of God involves more than just the commands of God, but the commands of God are a part of the word of God.

Is obeying God's commands effortless or second nature? Do people observe God's commands even when they seem contrary to nature? It can be said of all of God's commands that they are possible to obey. That is, they are not impossible. A person may need to work at it for awhile. But if the Spirit of God dwells in you and directs what you do, all God's love to the glory of God, you may say God's commands are not too difficult and that His commands are not burdensome. After all, Jesus said, "My yoke is easy and My burden is light".

Nick M
June 24th, 2015, 06:30 PM
What does it mean to obey God?



It depends on the person. For most, it is because they have not placed their trust in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, who prepared my works beforehand.

Jacob
October 15th, 2015, 01:28 PM
Never mind the 613 commandments pertained to the Jews and concentrate on the Noahide laws.
The seven Noahide laws are as follows (the following are addressed).

1. Idolatry.
2. "Blessing" the divine name.
3. Murder.
4. Sexual transgressions.
5. Theft (and civil law).
6. Courts system.
7. Eating a limb torn from a live animal.

These are mentioned in the Chumash for this week's portion.

jamie
October 15th, 2015, 02:45 PM
If I obey commands found in the New Testament writings but don't obey all 613 commands found in the Torah, where am I at then?


No one can obey all of the instructions in the Torah. Part of the instructions are for men, part of them are for women and part of them are for priests.

Israel was to obey those that were applicable to the person.

Jacob
October 15th, 2015, 09:36 PM
No one can obey all of the instructions in the Torah. Part of the instructions are for men, part of them are for women and part of them are for priests.

Israel was to obey those that were applicable to the person.I discovered through a study of the New Testament that though works are not required for salvation, faith is, and that those who have faith are to be obedient to God's commands, even if a person were only to read the New Testament.

Bradley D
October 15th, 2015, 11:35 PM
The law makes me aware of my sins, but the law is good.

"We know that the law is good if one uses it properly" (1 Tim. 1:8)


There will always be a battle within because of the "inclination of evil"

"...every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done" (Gen. 8:21).


I believe I will always have to turn to God and pray for strength to fight the temptation. I am weak. but He is strong. Am I perfect no. I may say something I regret, but I believe one can remain free of many physical sins.

"So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me...Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!" (Roman 7:21, 25)

iouae
October 16th, 2015, 01:48 AM
The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want...

I don't believe that the Shepherd calls Lamb-chop the sheep over at the end of the day, demanding what Lamb-chop has done that day to justify his existence. On the contrary, I believe that if Lamb-chop and the Shepherd are together in the same place at the end of the day, Lamb-chop is "good" with his Master.

Neither do I call my teen to me for his evening "justification talk" demanding of him what he has done to justify his supper. If his room is a mess (still) and his homework undone (again), it's not "off to the orphanage". Instead, I may take it upon myself to help him do his chores. In that way, any good habits he ends up with are (technically speaking) my righteousness.

We are God's children, bound together forever by love. Only if we run away and stay away forever, can that change. Parents don't "un-like" their children.

And in all the Master-servant parables, you have to be an exceptionally rotten servant before the Master casts that servant into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matt 25).

Ben Masada
October 17th, 2015, 01:24 PM
The New Testament writings follow the Old Testament writings.

The new covenant came after the old covenant.

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets. He did not come to abolish them but to fulfill.

I did observe Passover this year Ben Masada.

Cal hakavod Untellectual for observing Passover when you are not Jewish. But with regards to the other items, none reflects the truth. The New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Sorry but no Gentile participation. (Jer. 31:31) The invitation is in though, but according to Isa. 56:1-8.

Ben Masada
October 17th, 2015, 01:28 PM
The seven Noahide laws are as follows (the following are addressed).

1. Idolatry.
2. "Blessing" the divine name.
3. Murder.
4. Sexual transgressions.
5. Theft (and civil law).
6. Courts system.
7. Eating a limb torn from a live animal.

These are mentioned in the Chumash for this week's portion.

Now, go and forget them no more. That's all you need to live in peace with the Lord.

Jacob
October 17th, 2015, 08:35 PM
God commanded Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden.

The Noahide laws then preceded the giving of God's Law to the people of Israel.

The New Covenant followed this.

The history of the world and of God's people begins with His Torah.

Bradley D
October 19th, 2015, 02:58 AM
The Law is in the two Great Commandments. If one Truly loves God and Neighbor they will be obeying the 10 Commandments and other moral commandments. If one has the Holy Spirit within them the Spirit will let them know if they have done wrong and give a feeling of support. One can be convicted by the Spirit for doing what is wrong or not doing anything when one should have done something.

jamie
October 19th, 2015, 09:17 AM
The history of the world and of God's people begins with His Torah.

Was Abraham one of God's people?

Jacob
October 19th, 2015, 09:53 AM
Was Abraham one of God's people?

Yes.

My statement goes back to Genesis 1:1.

Jamie Gigliotti
October 19th, 2015, 12:16 PM
Can you say you obey God?

Obedience to God is a good thing. What does it mean to obey God?

Is obedience something you have to work at? Does it require effort?

Can a person obey God without being born again meaning born of God by the Spirit of God according to the word of God?

Is obedience to God only possible if you have the Spirit of God dwelling in you? Does a person obey God only by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and no other way?

What are good works if not that obedience which comes about in our lives by the power of God and the working of His Spirit in our lives?

I speak about Christians who began by the Spirit in faith, who live by the Spirit and know they are to walk by the Spirit, and are led by the Spirit.

Is it true you can only obey by the Spirit and all other efforts to obedience fail or are regarded as nothing? Salvation is not by works, including sanctification not being by works.

But it sounds wrong to discourage people from obedience, so we should not. Rather we should encourage people to salvation and preach about what is necessary for salvation.

First, Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation. Second, your own works are not necessary for salvation. Third, we are saved by faith and do good works because we are saved and in the power of the Spirit of God that they would bring glory to God and not to ourselves.

But may God be pleased in you when you do what is right in His name at the leading of His Spirit.

Acts 5:32 NASB - 32 "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."

Galatians 5:22-23 NASB - 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

1 Peter 1:2 NASB - 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
If the the love of God is in you by the reconcilling/cleansing work Jesus did on the cross, by grace, and our faith/trust in Him, thus turning to Him as Lord and Savior; we then love.

Jacob
October 19th, 2015, 12:40 PM
If the the love of God is in you by the reconcilling/cleansing work Jesus did on the cross, by grace, and our faith/trust in Him, thus turning to Him as Lord and Savior; we then love.
1 John 4:19 NASB - 19 We love, because He first loved us.

Ben Masada
October 19th, 2015, 12:45 PM
1 - God commanded Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden.
2 - The Noahide laws then preceded the giving of God's Law to the people of Israel.
3 - The New Covenant followed this.
4 - The history of the world and of God's people begins with His Torah.

1 - True.

2 - Logically. The Gentiles preceded Israel for many years. That's when the light was settled to shine in the dark. (Isa. 42:6)

3 - Yes, the New Covenant followed God's Law to the People of Israel.

4 - Not true. The History of God's People began with the rise of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Torah was given through Moses.

Jacob
October 19th, 2015, 12:54 PM
1 - True.

2 - Logically. The Gentiles preceded Israel for many years.
The Gentiles did not precede God's people though, from Adam and Eve to Noah to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the people of Israel.

Noah was not an Israelite, but he is counted among the people of God.

That's when the light was settled to shine in the dark. (Isa. 42:6)

3 - Yes, the New Covenant followed God's Law to the People of Israel.

4 - Not true. The History of God's People began with the rise of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Torah was given through Moses.Creation and Adam and Eve are a part of the Torah.