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daqq
June 23rd, 2015, 04:47 AM
Hello everyone. Is there anyone here that can show a count that comes up with forty two generations in the Matthew genealogy since that is the number which the author gives for his own writing? Or is there another logical and acceptable explanation for why the numbers do not add up according to modern theology experts? For the purposes of this thread topic I simply post the KJV. However the translation is really not all that important for this simple opening point, (which, yes, I know it is a well known problem) so please feel free to quote your own favorite translation if you so desire. I will start my own count at the logical place in the beginning with Abraham but first I quote verse seventeen which clearly states that the author gives fourteen plus fourteen plus fourteen generations for a total of forty two beginning with Abraham:

Matthew 1:17 KJV
17. So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

14 + 14 + 14 = 42 Generations:

Matthew 1:1-17 KJV
1. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2. Abraham [1] begat Isaac; and Isaac [2] begat Jacob; and Jacob [3] begat Judas and his brethren;
3. And Judas [4] begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares [5] begat Esrom; and Esrom [6] begat Aram;
4. And Aram [7] begat Aminadab; and Aminadab [8] begat Naasson; and Naasson [9] begat Salmon;
5. And Salmon [10] begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz [11] begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed [12] begat Jesse;
6. And Jesse [13] begat David the king; and David [14] the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7. And Solomon [15] begat Roboam; and Roboam [16] begat Abia; and Abia [17] begat Asa;
8. And Asa [18] begat Josaphat; and Josaphat [19] begat Joram; and Joram [20] begat Ozias;
9. And Ozias [21] begat Joatham; and Joatham [22] begat Achaz; and Achaz [23] begat Ezekias;
10. And Ezekias [24] begat Manasses; and Manasses [25] begat Amon; and Amon [26] begat Josias;
11. And Josias [27] begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12. And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias [28] begat Salathiel; and Salathiel [29] begat Zorobabel;
13. And Zorobabel [30] begat Abiud; and Abiud [31] begat Eliakim; and Eliakim [32] begat Azor;
14. And Azor [33] begat Sadoc; and Sadoc [34] begat Achim; and Achim [35] begat Eliud;
15. And Eliud [36] begat Eleazar; and Eleazar [37] begat Matthan; and Matthan [38] begat Jacob;
16. And Jacob [39] begat Joseph [40] the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, [41] who is called Christ.

:sheep:

chair
June 23rd, 2015, 05:00 AM
Douglas Adams?

daqq
June 23rd, 2015, 05:44 AM
Douglas Adams?

HUH??? :confused:

Here is what may be some highly pertinent background material: :)

http://biblehub.com/greek/legomenos_3004.htm
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/1-16.htm
http://biblehub.com/greek/3004.htm

:sheep:

chair
June 23rd, 2015, 06:49 AM
Douglas Adams?

You've never read the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"? 42 is a critical number there.

daqq
June 23rd, 2015, 07:04 AM
You've never read the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"? 42 is a critical number there.

No, although I have heard of it I have never read it, but I did Google the name and found out as well that he was a British humorist, (deceased 2001) and I think Jewish from some of what I found. However the number 42 does play a more critical role in the scripture than most of us probably realize or understand including my self. :)

So I went to the books, and I looked, and behold: Six cities of refuge until the death of haKohen haGadol and forty two cities with their suburbs and their fields. Abiding unwalled suburbs for the cities of the priests: each abiding town two thousand cubits to a quarter and squared round about the four quadrants of their circuits. Forty two cities of the priests with all their suburbs and the forty two continued from a new month to another: month to month in all their sojourns and their goings, even month to month in all the foliage of their trees: month to month with all their fruits and all their goods, even month to month with all their beasts in all their suburbs!

:sheep:

Jonahdog
June 23rd, 2015, 07:42 AM
Chair: Good call on the #. "The mice will see you now." "So long, and thanks for all the fish"
Makes about as much sense as expecting the compilation of Middle Eastern oral myth/history to be accurate.

daqq
June 23rd, 2015, 08:00 AM
By the way there is an acceptable answer for the forty-two generations. :)

:sheep: (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4314108&postcount=833)

RevTestament
June 23rd, 2015, 09:35 AM
See Luke 3

Jonahdog
June 23rd, 2015, 10:15 AM
See Luke 3

Am I wrong in that the #s do not match, nor the names???

Should not a genealogy be accurate?

RevTestament
June 23rd, 2015, 10:42 AM
Am I wrong in that the #s do not match, nor the names???

Should not a genealogy be accurate?

Luke gives the names according to Greek custom - another reason to believe that Matthew was not originally written in Greek. But it does make it more difficult to see where they differ.

daqq
June 23rd, 2015, 06:38 PM
See Luke 3

The Lukan genealogy does not help anyone to count forty two generations in Matthew. Matthew either stands alone as a witness or does not stand at all. The author of Matthew clearly states that he writes of fourteen plus fourteen plus fourteen generations in three divided sections, (which clearly total forty two generations). Either one counts them in the way they are intended and arrives at forty two generations, or the author made a mistake in his own introduction of what may be assumed to be his greatest work of his lifetime, (which is preposterous) or one simply does not understand what he or she is reading. I have no problem counting a total of forty two generations in the Matthew genealogy. Those who do have a problem counting forty two generations in the Matthew genealogy have an even greater problem in that they cannot even make it past the opening passage of the first Gospel account and first book of the New Testament-Covenant without ignoring a blatant error in their own theology.

Matthew 1:16-17
16. and Yaakob begat Yoseph the andraMariam, [40] of whom was born Yeshua, [41] who is legomenos-laying-forth-describing-speaking (http://biblehub.com/greek/legomenos_3004.htm) Christos-Meshiach [42].
17. So all the generations from Abraham unto David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the deportation to Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the deportation to Babylon unto the Christou-HaMeshiach are fourteen generations.

Fourteen generations from Abraham to David:

1) Abraham
2) Yitschak
3) Yaakob
4) Yhudah
5) Pherez
6) Hezron
7) Ram
8) Amminadab
9) Nahshon
10) Salmon
11) Boaz
12) Obed
13) Yishay
14) David

Fourteen generations from Solomon to Jechoniah:

15) Sholomoh
16) Rehoboam
17) Abiyah
18) Asa
19) Yehoshaphat
20) Yhoram
21) Uzziah
22) Yotham
23) Ahaz
24) Hezekiah
25) Manassheh
26) Amon
27) Yosiah
28) Yechoniah

Fourteen generations from Shealtiel to Yeshua the Messiah:

29) Shealtiel
30) Zerubbabel
31) Abiud
32) Eliakim
33) Azor
34) Tzadok
35) Achim
36) Eliud
37) Eleazar
38) Matthan
39) Yaakob
40) Yoseph the andraMariam
41) Yeshua son of Yoseph - Netser of Yishay - Isaiah 11:1
42) Yeshua HaMeshiach - Tsemach Branch - Zechariah 3:8 - Zechariah 6:12

:sheep:

daqq
June 23rd, 2015, 09:14 PM
Matthew 1:16-17
16. and Yaakob begat Yoseph the andraMariam, [40] of whom was born Yeshua, [41] who is legomenos-laying-forth-describing-speaking (http://biblehub.com/greek/legomenos_3004.htm) Christos-Meshiach [42].

*SNIP*

41) Yeshua son of Yoseph - Netser of Yishay - Isaiah 11:1
42) Yeshua HaMeshiach - Tsemach Branch - Zechariah 3:8 - Zechariah 6:12

The Son of man cannot be born of a woman otherwise it is the most oxymoronic statement ever contrived: for who would say that a man born of a woman is the Son of man? In addition this is according to the Testimony of Yeshua himself who clearly and emphatically states that of those having been born of women there had arisen none greater than Yochanan:

Matthew 11:7-11
7. And as they departed, Yeshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning Yochanan, What went you out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8. But what went you out for to behold? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in houses of kings.
9. But what went you out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. [Exodus 23:20 Septuagint]
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than Yochanan the Immerser: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

This statement necessarily includes the man Yeshua himself and therefore the Son of man is not born of a woman; otherwise Yochanan would have been the greater. The Son of man is the Testimony Word of the man Yeshua which he himself says is Spirit and Life:

John 6:62-63
62. And what if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.

:sheep:

RevTestament
June 23rd, 2015, 09:31 PM
The Son of man cannot be born of a woman otherwise it is the most oxymoronic statement ever contrived: for who would say that a man born of a woman is the Son of man? In addition this is according to the Testimony of Yeshua himself who clearly and emphatically states that of those having been born of women there had arisen none greater than Yochanan:

Matthew 11:7-11
7. And as they departed, Yeshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning Yochanan, What went you out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8. But what went you out for to behold? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in houses of kings.
9. But what went you out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. [Exodus 23:20 Septuagint]
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than Yochanan the Immerser: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

This statement necessarily includes the man Yeshua himself and therefore the Son of man is not born of a woman; otherwise Yochanan would have been the greater. The Son of man is the Testimony Word of the man Yeshua which he himself says is Spirit and Life:

John 6:62-63
62. And what if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.

:sheep:
Um....all the prophets were born of women, and many were referred to as son of man....
Maybe that refers to Jesus being "born" of man up on the cross to be our Father as prophesied?

tetelestai
June 23rd, 2015, 09:34 PM
Hello everyone. Is there anyone here that can show a count that comes up with forty two generations in the Matthew genealogy since that is the number which the author gives for his own writing?

It's Sabbatical symbolism.

3 X 14 = 6 X 7

The generation of Christ Jesus represents the seventh seven, the Ultimate Sabbath rest, the Ultimate Jubilee Year.

Daniels seventy sevens

daqq
June 23rd, 2015, 10:11 PM
Um....all the prophets were born of women, and many were referred to as son of man....
Maybe that refers to Jesus being "born" of man up on the cross to be our Father as prophesied?

Your "son of man" is your testimony which is Spirit whether for the upright or whether for the firstborn "son of perdition" Esau man. Otherwise how shall you produce fruit in the kingdom of the heavens? For so is the kingdom of Elohim, as if a man should cast seed into the adamah: and resting and and rising night and day, and how the seed should sprout up and begin to grow he knows not. For the earth brings forth fruit of herself; first the garden, (feminine) then the stalk, (masculine) after that the full head of grain. But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately the sickle is put in, for the harvest is come. The seed of the Word is planted in the adamah-soil of the heart. Make yourself therefore an altar of adamah as commanded in Exodus 20:24. :)

The genealogies are likewise mano-y-mano for the same reason.
And if you break the rule at Yeshua you destroy the understanding . . .

John 12:47-48
47. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: The Logos which I have spoken, that one shall judge him in the last day.

Not the man Yeshua but the Son of man is the Logos and the Judge!
And the Son of man is the Testimony of the man Yeshua . . .

:sheep:

daqq
June 24th, 2015, 06:49 AM
It's Sabbatical symbolism.

3 X 14 = 6 X 7

The generation of Christ Jesus represents the seventh seven, the Ultimate Sabbath rest, the Ultimate Jubilee Year.

Daniels seventy sevens

Hmmm . . . :)


Watching I was; and a Watcher and Holy One descended from the heavens . . .

http://sheshbazzardaq.com/tsemach-chloros2.gif

6 x 7 = 42 --- ~ --- Six wings! Six wings to the one!
And Seven Eyes like the Seven Lamps of Fire of the Menorah!

http://www.sheshbazzardaq.com/hammered-gold-menorah3.gif

Behold, a sower went forth to sow, and in his hand was a toxon-bow. And as he sowed, some seed of the Word fell on the trodden down compacted soil of the hardened heart by the side of the Way; and the fowls of the air, which are the Evil one, the Devil, and the Satan, came and devoured the seed. For when anyone hears the Word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then comes the Satan, and catches away that which was sown in the soil of his heart. This is he which receives the seed of the Word in the compacted soil of the hardened heart by the side of the Way.

Also some of the seed of the Word fell upon rocky and stony places, where there was not much soil: and forthwith the seed of the Word sprung up because it had no deepness of soil: and when the sun was up the shoots were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And he that receives the seed of the Word into stony places, the same is he that hears the Word and immediately receives it with joy, but has no root in himself, and endures for but a while: for when tribulation or persecution arises, because of the Word, by and by he is offended.

Also some of the seed of the Word fell among the thorns; and the thorns sprung up and choked them out. And he that receives the seed of the Word among the thorns is he that hears the Word; but the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the Word from the soil of his heart, and he becomes unfruitful.

But some of the seed of the Word fell into the good and fertile adamah soil of the heart, and produced fruit; some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. And he that receives the seed of the Word into the good and fertile adamah soil of the heart is he that hears the Word, and understands it, and therefore also bears fruit and produces; some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. For so is the kingdom of Elohim; like a man casting seed on the ground, and sleeping and rising, night and day, and how the seed sprouts and grows not he knows. For the earth produces fruit of herself; first the garden, (which is feminine) then the stalk, (which is masculine) then the full head of grain in the stalk. But when the fruit is brought forth he immediately sends out the sickle of the reapers because the harvest stands ready. He that has ears to hear, let him hear.

:sheep:

daqq
June 24th, 2015, 08:35 PM
Matthew 1:1-17
1. Genesis book of Messiah Yeshua, son of David, son of Abraham.
2. Abraham [1] begat Yitschak; [2] and Yitschak begat Yaakob; [3] and Yaakob begat Yhudah [4] and his brethren:
3. and Yhudah begat Pherez [5] and Zerah of Tamar; and Pherez begat Hezron; [6] and Hezron begat Ram: [7]
4. and Ram begat Amminadab; [8] and Amminidab begat Nahshon; [9] and Nahshon begat Salmon: [10]
5. and Salmon begat Boaz [11] of Rahab; and Boaz begat Obed [12] of Ruth; and Obed begat Yishay: [13]
6. and Yishay begat David [14] the king. And David begat Sholomoh [15] of her that had been the wife of Uriyah:
7. and Sholomoh begat Rehoboam; [16] and Rehoboam begat Abiyah; [17] and Abiyah begat Asaph: [18]
8. and Asaph begat Yehoshaphat; [19] and Yehoshaphat begat Yhoram; [20] and Yhoram begat Uzziah: [21]
9. and Uzziah begat Yotham; [22] and Yotham begat Ahaz; [23] and Ahaz begat Hezekiah: [24]
10. and Hezekiah begat Manassheh; [25] and Manassheh begat Amon; [26] and Amon begat Yosiah: [27]
11. and Yosiah begat Yechoniah [28] and his brethren, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.
12. And after the deportation to Babylon, Yechoniah begat Shealtiel; [29] and Shealtiel begat Zerubbabel: [30]
13. and Zerubbabel begat Abiud; [31] and Abiud begat Eliakim; [32] and Eliakim begat Azor: [33]
14. and Azor begat Tzadok; [34] and Tzadok begat Achim; [35] and Achim begat Eliud: [36]
15. and Eliud begat Eleazar; [37] and Eleazar begat Matthan; [38] and Matthan begat Yaakob: [39]
16. and Yaakob begat Yosef the andraMariam, [40] of whom was begat Yeshua, [41] who is legomenos-laying-forth-describing-speaking Messiah [42].
17. So all the generations from Abraham unto David are fourteen generations; and from David unto the deportation to Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the deportation to Babylon unto Messiah are fourteen generations.

daqq
January 2nd, 2016, 04:18 AM
Micah 4:14 LXX-Septuagint
14. νυν εμφραχθησεται θυγατηρ εφραιμ εν φραγμω συνοχην εταξεν εφ ημας εν ραβδω παταξουσιν επι σιαγονα τας φυλας του ισραηλ
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/33_004.htm

Micah 5:1-2 LXX-Septuagint
1. και συ βηθλεεμ οικος του εφραθα ολιγοστος ει του ειναι εν χιλιασιν ιουδα εκ σου μοι εξελευσεται του ειναι εις αρχοντα εν τω ισραηλ και αι εξοδοι αυτου απ αρχης εξ ημερων αιωνος
2. δια τουτο δωσει αυτους εως καιρου τικτουσης τεξεται και οι επιλοιποι των αδελφων αυτων επιστρεψουσιν επι τους υιους ισραηλ
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/33_005.htm

Micah 4:14-5:2 LXX-Septuagint
14. Now shall the daughter of Ephraim be encompassed, in a hedge of distress, determined against us: with a rod they shall smite on the cheek the tribes of Yisrael.
1. And you, Bethlehem, house of Ephratha, though little you are among the rulers-of-thousands of Yhudah: out of you to Me shall issue forth he that is to be for Ruler in [the] Yisrael, and whose goings forth are from the beginning, from days aionos.
2. Because of this he gives them [up] until the time-appointed: the one producing shall produce, [tikto - as in the production of plant life] and the remnant of their brethren shall return to the sons of Yisrael, [Jos. Ant. Bk.17 Ch.6:5-6, Ch.8:2, Wars Bk.1 Ch.33:6-8, all the principal men of the entire Jewish nation, one from every house, which were "hedged in" and quarantined at the Hippodrome, and marked for death by Herod in his madness at the end of his life, (but then released upon his death)].

Josephus Ant. Bk. 17 Ch. 6:5
5. But now Herod's distemper greatly increased upon him after a severe manner, and this by God's judgment upon him for his sins; for a fire glowed in him slowly, which did not so much appear to the touch outwardly, as it augmented his pains inwardly; for it brought upon him a vehement appetite to eating, which he could not avoid to supply with one sort of food or other. His entrails were also ex-ulcerated, and the chief violence of his pain lay on his colon; an aqueous and transparent liquor also had settled itself about his feet, and a like matter afflicted him at the bottom of his belly. Nay, further, his privy-member was putrefied, and produced worms; and when he sat upright, he had a difficulty of breathing, which was very loathsome, on account of the stench of his breath, and the quickness of its returns; he had also convulsions in all parts of his body, which increased his strength to an insufferable degree. It was said by those who pretended to divine, and who were endued with wisdom to foretell such things, that God inflicted this punishment on the king on account of his great impiety; yet was he still in hopes of recovering, though his afflictions seemed greater than any one could bear. He also sent for physicians, and did not refuse to follow what they prescribed for his assistance, and went beyond the river Jordan, and bathed himself in the warm baths that were at Callirrhoe, which, besides their other general virtues, were also fit to drink; which water runs into the lake called Asphaltiris. And when the physicians once thought fit to have him bathed in a vessel full of oil, it was supposed that he was just dying; but upon the lamentable cries of his domestics, he revived; and having no longer the least hopes of recovering, he gave order that every soldier should be paid fifty drachmae; and he also gave a great deal to their commanders, and to his friends, and came again to Jericho, where he grew so choleric, that it brought him to do all things like a madman; and though he were near his death, he contrived the following wicked designs. He commanded that all the principal men of the entire Jewish nation, wheresoever they lived, should be called to him. Accordingly, they were a great number that came, because the whole nation was called, and all men heard of this call, and death was the penalty of such as should despise the epistles that were sent to call them. And now the king was in a wild rage against them all, the innocent as well as those that had afforded ground for accusations; and when they were come, he ordered them to be all shut up in the hyppodrome, (9) and sent for his sister Salome, and her husband Alexas, and spake thus to them: "I shall die in a little time, so great are my pains; which death ought to be cheerfully borne, and to be welcomed by all men; but what principally troubles me is this, that I shall die without being lamented, and without such mourning as men usually expect at a king's death. For that he was not unacquainted with the temper of the Jews, that his death would be a thing very desirable, and exceedingly acceptable to them, because during his lifetime they were ready to revolt from him, and to abuse the donations he had dedicated to God that it therefore was their business to resolve to afford him some alleviation of his great sorrows on this occasion; for that if they do not refuse him their consent in what he desires, he shall have a great mourning at his funeral, and such as never had any king before him; for then the whole nation would mourn from their very soul, which otherwise would be done in sport and mockery only. He desired therefore, that as soon as they see he hath given up the ghost, they shall place soldiers round the hippodrome, while they do not know that he is dead; and that they shall not declare his death to the multitude till this is done, but that they shall give orders to have those that are in custody shot with their darts; and that this slaughter of them all will cause that he shall not miss to rejoice on a double account; that as he is dying, they will make him secure that his will shall be executed in what he charges them to do; and that he shall have the honor of a memorable mourning at his funeral. So he deplored his condition, with tears in his eyes, and obtested them by the kindness due from them, as of his kindred, and by the faith they owed to God, and begged of them that they would not hinder him of this honorable mourning at his funeral. So they promised him not to transgress his commands.

Josephus Ant. Bk. 17 Ch. 8:2
2. But then Salome and Alexas, before the king's death was made known, dismissed those that were shut up in the hippodrome, and told them that the king ordered them to go away to their own lands, and take care of their own affairs, which was esteemed by the nation a great benefit. And now the king's death was made public, when Salome and Alexas gathered the soldiery together in the amphitheater at Jericho; and the first thing they did was, they read Herod's letter, written to the soldiery, thanking them for their fidelity and good-will to him, and exhorting them to afford his son Archelaus, whom he had appointed for their king, like fidelity and good-will. After which Ptolemy, who had the king's seal intrusted to him, read the king's testament, which was to be of force no otherwise than as it should stand when Caesar had inspected it; so there was presently an acclamation made to Archelaus, as king; and the soldiers came by bands, and their commanders with them, and promised the same good-will to him, and readiness to serve him, which they had exhibited to Herod; and they prayed God to be assistant to him.

daqq
January 2nd, 2016, 04:22 AM
Yirmeyahu 23:5
5. Behold, the days are coming, says YHWH, and I will raise unto David a Tsemach-Anatolen Tzaddik: and a king shall reign, and he shall understand, and he shall perform judgment and righteousness upon the land.

Yirmeyahu 23:5 Hebrew Transliteration
5. Hineh, yamiym ba'iym, n'um- YHWH, wahaqimotiy l-Dawid Tsemach Tsadiyq uwmalak Melek whiskiyl w`asah mishpaTuw tsdaqah ba'arets.

Jeremiah 23:5 LXX-Septuagint
5. ιδου ημεραι ερχονται λεγει κυριος και αναστησω τω δαυιδ ανατολην δικαιαν και βασιλευσει βασιλευς και συνησει και ποιησει κριμα και δικαιοσυνην επι της γης
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/24_023.htm

Zkaryah 3:8
8. Hear now Yeshua, haKohen haGadol, you and your associates that sit before you, for they are men of a token: for behold, I bring forth My servant, Tsemach-Anatolen.

Zkaryah 3:8 Hebrew Transliteration
8. Shma`- na', Yhowshua`, hakohen hagadowl, 'atah wre`eyka hayoshbiym lpaneyka! Kiy- 'anshey mowpet hemah. Kiy- hiniy, mebiy' 'et- `abdiy, Tsemach.

Zechariah 3:8 LXX-Septuagint
8. ακουε δη ιησου ο ιερευς ο μεγας συ και οι πλησιον σου οι καθημενοι προ προσωπου σου διοτι ανδρες τερατοσκοποι εισι διοτι ιδου εγω αγω τον δουλον μου ανατολην
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/38_003.htm

Zkaryah 6:12
12. And say to him, Thus says YHWH Tsabaoth, behold, a man, Tsemach-Anatole is his name: and he shall tsamach-anatelei sprout forth-spring up from his place, and he shall build the House of YHWH.

Zkaryah 6:12 Hebrew Transliteration
12. W'amarta 'elayw le'mor: Koh 'amar YHWH tsba'owt le'mor: Hineh- 'iysh Tsemach shmow. Uwmitachtayw yitsmachuwbanah 'et- heykal YHWH.

Zechariah 6:12 LXX-Septuagint
12. και ερεις προς αυτον ταδε λεγει κυριος παντοκρατωρ ιδου ανηρ ανατολη ονομα αυτω και υποκατωθεν αυτου ανατελει και οικοδομησει τον οικον κυριου
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/38_006.htm

ανατολη : anatole : tsemach

daqq
January 2nd, 2016, 04:28 AM
Matthew 1:18-3:13
18. But of Yeshua having been born in Bethlehem of Yhudah, in the days of Herod the king, behold, Magi from the Anatolon-Tsemach eastern rising light came near to Yerushalem, saying:
19. Where is the one techtheis-producing [tikto - plant life production] a king of the Yhudim? For we have seen his Star in the Anatole-Tsemach, [Jer 23:5, Jer 33:15, Zec 3:8, Zec 6:12] and we have come to bow to him [Deut 32:43 LXX, Heb 1:6].
20. But having heard, Herod the king was troubled, and all Yerushalem with him.
21. And gathering all of the chief priests and scribes of the people he inquired by them where the Messiah should be born.
22. And they said to him, In Bethlehem of Yhudah, for thus it is written by way of the prophet:
23. And you Bethlehem, land of Yhudah, not the least you are among the rulers of Yhudah: for out of you shall issue forth a Ruler, the Yisrael, who will shepherd My people [Mic 5:2].
24. Then Herod privately called the Magi and diligently inquired from them the time of the appearing of the Star:
25. And dispatching them to Bethlehem, he said, Going forth search out diligently concerning the child: but as soon as you have made discovery, report it unto me, so that I also may come and bow to him.
26. They therefore, having heard of a king, went forth: and behold, the Star which they had seen in the Anatole-Tsemach led on before them, until having come, [the Malak-Star] stood above where the child was.
27. Moreover, having known the Star, they rejoiced with exceedingly great joyfulness:
28. And entering into the house they saw the child with his mother, Maria, and alighting down they bowed to him, and opening their treasures they presented gifts to him: gold, libanon, and smyrnan.
29. And being supernaturally warned by a dream not to turn back toward Herod they departed through another way to their land.
30. Moreover, when they had departed, behold, Malak of YHWH appeared by a dream to Yosef, saying, Rise up, take along side the child and his mother and flee into Egypt, and be you there until whenever I speak to you: for Herod is about to seek the child to cut him off!
31. And rising up he took along side the child and his mother by night and departed into Egypt.
32. And he was there until the expiration of Herod, so that what is spoken from YHWH by way of the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, Out of Egypt have I called My son [Exo 4:22-23, Hos 11:1].
33. At that time Herod, knowing that he was despised by the Magi, was furiously enraged: and having sent forth took up all the paidas-male-servants, [Mic 4:14-5:2 LXX - Ephraim-Ephrata] of those in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof from two years and below, [Immersion under the Teacher of Righteousness plus two years, (see Community Rule 1QS 6:13-23), Jos. Ant. Bk.17 Ch.6:5-6, Ch.8:2, Wars Bk.1 Ch.33:6-8, all "the principal men" of the entire Jewish nation, one from every house, quarantined by Herod at the Hippodrome and slated for death but then released upon his own death, (Mic 4:14-5:2 LXX, Jer 31:16-17)] according to the time which he had diligently inquired from the Magi.
34. Then was fulfilled what is spoken by way of Yirmeyahu the prophet, saying:
35. A voice in Ramah was heard, weeping and much lamentation: Rachel weeping for her teknon-offspring, [tikto - plant life] and she would not be comforted, for they are not [Jer 31:15-17].
36. But Herod having expired, behold, Malak of YHWH appeared by a dream to Yosef in Egypt, saying:
37. Rise up, take along side the child and his mother and go forth into the land of Yisrael: for those seeking the soul of the child have died off!
38. He then rising up took along side the child and his mother and entered into the land of Yisrael.
39. But hearing that Archelaus ruled Yhudah, in the place of his father Herod, he feared to enter therein: moreover, having been supernaturally warned by a dream, he departed to the portions of the Galilees:
40. And having come he dwelt in a city being labeled Nazaret, whereby it is fulfilled what is spoken by way of the prophets, that is, a Nazoraios [he] shall be called.
41. Moreover, in those same days, [the days of Archelaus] came Yochanan the Immerser [whose ministry was many years wherein he immersed all of the true Yisrael] preaching in the desert of Yhudah, and saying:
42. Repent yourselves, [change your hearts] for the kingdom of the heavens is at hand!
43. For this is he of whom it is spoken by way of Yeshayahu the prophet, saying, Voice of a Cryer in the desert, Prepare yourselves the way of YHWH, make yourselves straight His paths.
44. And Yochanan is he that had his raiment of camel hair, and a belt of skin roundabout his waist, and his nourishment was locust and wild honey.
45. At that time went forth out to him Yerushalem, and all of Yhudah, and all the region roundabout the Yarden:
46. And they were immersed in the Yarden River under him [under the authority of his doctrine-name] confessing their sins.
47. But seeing many of the Prushim and Tzaddukim, having come to his immersion, he said unto them: Generation of vipers! Who warned you to flee the wrath about to come?
48. Produce of yourselves therefore fruits worthy of repentance-change of heart!
49. And do not think to say within yourselves, "We have a father, Abraham!" For I say unto you that Elohim is able from these stones to raise up tekna-offspring [tikto - plant life] unto Abraham!
50. Moreover the axe is now laid to the root of the trees: every tree therefore not producing good fruit is chopped down and cast into the fire!
51. I indeed immerse you in water toward repentance-change of heart: but the one coming behind me is mightier than me, whose sandals I am not sufficient to bear, he shall immerse you in Spirit Holy and Fire:
52. Whose winnowing fork is his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his threshing-floor and gather his wheat into the granary: but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire!
53. But of Yeshua Messiah the genesis was in this manner: his mother Maria having been gifted unto Yosef, prior to either of them cohabiting, she was found possessing-retaining "en-gastri", [which is to say, "in belly"] from Spirit Holy.
54. And Yosef her man, being upright, and not wanting a public show of her, was of a private mind to put her away.
55. But as he pondered these things, behold, Malak of YHWH appeared to him by a dream, saying, Yosef, son of David, fear not to receive your wife Mariam, [wife of youth - wife of covenant: Mal 2:14-15] for that being generated in her is from Spirit, [Mal 2:15, and elohim seed] it is Holy:
56. And shall texetai-produce a son, [tikto - plant life] and you shall call his name Yeshua, for the same shall deliver his people from their sins.
57. But this whole thing was done so that what is spoken from YHWH by way of the prophet might be fulfilled, saying:
58. Behold, the parthenos shall possess-retain "en-gastri", ["in belly"] and shall texetai-produce a son, [tikto - plant life] and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which is with hermeneutics, "With-us-El".
59. And Yosef arose from the hypnos-deep-sleep, and did as the Malak of YHWH commanded him, and received his woman.
60. And he knew her not until of whom a son was eteken-produced, [tikto - plant life] and he called his name Yeshua.
61. At that time he, Yeshua, approached from the Galilees upon the Yarden, toward Yochanan, to be immersed under him, [under the authority of his name, the forerunner, the Spirit of Eliyahu, Luke 1:17].

daqq
January 2nd, 2016, 07:42 AM
So then, no doubt, the man Yeshua is born of a woman and is the Netser Yishay:

Fourteen generations from Abraham to David:

1) Abraham
2) Yitschak
3) Yaakob
4) Yhudah
5) Pherez
6) Hezron
7) Ram
8) Amminadab
9) Nahshon
10) Salmon
11) Boaz
12) Obed
13) Yishay
14) David

Fourteen generations from Solomon to Jechoniah:

15) Sholomoh
16) Rehoboam
17) Abiyah
18) Asa
19) Yehoshaphat
20) Yhoram
21) Uzziah
22) Yotham
23) Ahaz
24) Hezekiah
25) Manassheh
26) Amon
27) Yosiah
28) Yechoniah

Fourteen generations from Shealtiel to Yeshua the Messiah:

29) Shealtiel
30) Zerubbabel
31) Abiud
32) Eliakim
33) Azor
34) Tzadok
35) Achim
36) Eliud
37) Eleazar
38) Matthan
39) Yaakob
40) Yoseph the andraMariam
41) Yeshua son of Yoseph - Netser Yishay (Jesse) - Isaiah 11:1
42) Yeshua HaMeshiach - Tsemach Branch - Zec 3:8 - Zec 6:12

However Messiah Yeshua is not born of a woman and that one is he whose name is Tsemach-Branch and Anatole-Rising Light, (also rendered "Dayspring" in the Luke 1:78 KJV). That is the Testimony of the man Yeshua, for testimony is spirit, and the words that Yeshua speaks are Spirit and they are Life. That Word is the Seeker and the Judge, the Memra-Logos-Word, the Son of Elohim, and the Son of man who descended from the heavens in bodily form as a dove and abode-remained with the man Yeshua from the time when he was immersed. And because he is called the Son of man he is clearly not born of a woman: for of men having been born of women, in the days of both Yeshua and Yochanan Eliyahu the Immerser, there had arisen none greater than Yochanan; but he that was at that time the least in the kingdom of the heavens was greater than Yochanan, (that is, the Son of man, who was made to be a little lower than the messengers because he is the Word that the messengers speak). :)

RBBI
January 2nd, 2016, 08:36 AM
Great posts. As to your opening question, I can. WE are one with that 42 generation, the offspring of the Lamb standing on the mount, a generation (who shall declare/show openly HIS generation?) that spans all generations because it is SPIRIT, because the Seed is Spirit. When He comes He comes with myriads of His saints. Peace

oatmeal
January 2nd, 2016, 08:56 AM
Hello everyone. Is there anyone here that can show a count that comes up with forty two generations in the Matthew genealogy since that is the number which the author gives for his own writing? Or is there another logical and acceptable explanation for why the numbers do not add up according to modern theology experts? For the purposes of this thread topic I simply post the KJV. However the translation is really not all that important for this simple opening point, (which, yes, I know it is a well known problem) so please feel free to quote your own favorite translation if you so desire. I will start my own count at the logical place in the beginning with Abraham but first I quote verse seventeen which clearly states that the author gives fourteen plus fourteen plus fourteen generations for a total of forty two beginning with Abraham:

Matthew 1:17 KJV
17. So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

14 + 14 + 14 = 42 Generations:

Matthew 1:1-17 KJV
1. The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
2. Abraham [1] begat Isaac; and Isaac [2] begat Jacob; and Jacob [3] begat Judas and his brethren;
3. And Judas [4] begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares [5] begat Esrom; and Esrom [6] begat Aram;
4. And Aram [7] begat Aminadab; and Aminadab [8] begat Naasson; and Naasson [9] begat Salmon;
5. And Salmon [10] begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz [11] begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed [12] begat Jesse;
6. And Jesse [13] begat David the king; and David [14] the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
7. And Solomon [15] begat Roboam; and Roboam [16] begat Abia; and Abia [17] begat Asa;
8. And Asa [18] begat Josaphat; and Josaphat [19] begat Joram; and Joram [20] begat Ozias;
9. And Ozias [21] begat Joatham; and Joatham [22] begat Achaz; and Achaz [23] begat Ezekias;
10. And Ezekias [24] begat Manasses; and Manasses [25] begat Amon; and Amon [26] begat Josias;
11. And Josias [27] begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
12. And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias [28] begat Salathiel; and Salathiel [29] begat Zorobabel;
13. And Zorobabel [30] begat Abiud; and Abiud [31] begat Eliakim; and Eliakim [32] begat Azor;
14. And Azor [33] begat Sadoc; and Sadoc [34] begat Achim; and Achim [35] begat Eliud;
15. And Eliud [36] begat Eleazar; and Eleazar [37] begat Matthan; and Matthan [38] begat Jacob;
16. And Jacob [39] begat Joseph [40] the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, [41] who is called Christ.

:sheep:

Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille shows clearly that the word translated "husband" in husband of Mary should have been translated "father", not "husband". That the father of Mary would have the same name as her husband is not unusual. Joseph is not an uncommon name. Joseph of Genesis was an incredibly great believer and disciple with a wonderful legacy.

For a full explanation of the research, see "The Word's Way" or "Jesus Christ Our Passover" by Wierwille.

Either of those books can be purchased new from The Way International or used copies can be found at Amazon and probably other websites.

Both books were decades in the making and well worth the time and money to learn from.

If providing purchasing info on this website is not kosher, my apologies, but since the subject is handled in depth in both publications and long posts are not welcome here, it seems if anyone wants to learn more they should do it from a solid source, from the horse's mouth, so to speak, not from my retyping of pages from copyrighted sources.

Having the privilege of so many ready answers to these kind of questions is a true God send.

The genealogy in Matthew is Jesus Christ's royal lineage, his legal right to the throne of David, which culminates in Mary being in the royal bloodline. Since Joseph, Mary's husband, is not the biological father of Jesus, this royal genealogy is meaningless if it culminates in Joseph, Mary's husband, instead of Joseph, Mary's father.

daqq
January 2nd, 2016, 09:41 PM
Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille shows clearly that the word translated "husband" in husband of Mary should have been translated "father", not "husband". That the father of Mary would have the same name as her husband is not unusual. Joseph is not an uncommon name. Joseph of Genesis was an incredibly great believer and disciple with a wonderful legacy.

For a full explanation of the research, see "The Word's Way" or "Jesus Christ Our Passover" by Wierwille.

Either of those books can be purchased new from The Way International or used copies can be found at Amazon and probably other websites.

Both books were decades in the making and well worth the time and money to learn from.

If providing purchasing info on this website is not kosher, my apologies, but since the subject is handled in depth in both publications and long posts are not welcome here, it seems if anyone wants to learn more they should do it from a solid source, from the horse's mouth, so to speak, not from my retyping of pages from copyrighted sources.

Having the privilege of so many ready answers to these kind of questions is a true God send.

The genealogy in Matthew is Jesus Christ's royal lineage, his legal right to the throne of David, which culminates in Mary being in the royal bloodline. Since Joseph, Mary's husband, is not the biological father of Jesus, this royal genealogy is meaningless if it culminates in Joseph, Mary's husband, instead of Joseph, Mary's father.

Not to worry, I am not the kind that will report you for replying with "too long" of a post. However the argument you present I have read several times in several places, (and debated it more than once) although I have not read it straight from the author you mention. The argument presented is more of an argument for a literal physical virgin birth but still does not address the problem of the forty-two generation count addressed in this thread. Even if you replace "Yosef the man (or husband) of Mariam" with "Yosef the father of Mariam" you still come up short counting forty-two generations within the text, (unless you see that Messiah is the Word which the man Yeshua is legomenos-laying-forth-speaking; for his Testimony is Spirit). But as for the argument itself it is nothing more than a desperate attempt to salvage a flesh minded paradigm that puts its faith in the literal understanding of a physical virgin birth, (which Paul hints at being "old wives tales"). The main problem raised in this thread is that the forty-two generation count, as explicitly stated to be the case by the author of Matthew himself, cannot be reconciled from a physical mindset. But as for "aner", (andra) being rendered as "father", (as according to the author you referred to says it should be rendered) there is nowhere that I know of where this is done in the Greek text. We have a word for "father" and it is "pater" in all places including Matthew:

Matthew 2:22 KJV
22. But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father [GSN#3962 pater] Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee:

Strong's Ref. #3962
Romanized pater
Pronounced pat-ayr'
a primary word; a "father" (literally or figuratively, near or more remote):
KJV--father, parent.

The man Yeshua is the son of Yosef: to ignore this natural fact completely dissolves the entire purpose of the Matthew genealogy because the entire point is that the man Yeshua is of the lineage of the royal line of David, through Yosef, and the genealogy is man-to-man, that is, father-to-son. The holy seed is Spirit and that is why all through the holy seed line "men beget men" just as it is in the Matthew genealogy. While everyone knows that the wife of Adam was Eve still yet that is not how it reads in the first genealogy of the holy seed line from Genesis 5:3. If you forsake this precept at the very end of the genealogy, which precept builds precept upon precept, and you make Yosef to instead be "the father" of Mariam, then you have effectually subverted the entire process by pulling a fast one at the literal end of an age-old tradition going all the way back to Genesis 5:3. The author you mention has merely pulled the old switcheroo at the very end to suit his own means and ends. It is the tactic of the unstable and unlearned who are not willing to follow precept upon precept and actually adhere to and believe what is written. It is blatant error to have "fathers begetting sons" throughout the holy seed line, all the way back from Adam, and then at the very end of the genealogy have a woman suddenly inserted into the final position breaking the most critical rule laid out from the beginning of the genealogy and flowing through all other portions of it. Abraham begat Yitschak, Yitschak begat Yakob, Yakob begat Yhudah, and what the author you mention is suggesting is that at the very end of the same genealogy, out of nowhere, wham-bam-kapow: the father of Mariam gets inserted at the very end, breaking the entire rule of example which came before going all the way back to Adam. And this he apparently believes despite the fact that the word for father, (pater) is not found anywhere in the text, and despite the fact that the word for man or husband, (aner) is nowhere else rendered as "father" by anyone, anyplace, anytime. The failure in understanding is that the virgin birth concerns supernal and allegorical things. Who and what does Eve represent in the beginning? Who does Sarah the wife of Abraham represent according to Paul? Who does Rachel the wife of Yakob and mother of Yosef and Benyamin represent? Mariam is the final allegorical typology of Yerushalem of Above, who is the mother-covenant of us all, (Galatians 4:22-31).

Jeremiah 31:15-22
15. Thus says YHWH; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rachel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.
16. Thus says YHWH; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, says YHWH; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.
17. And there is hope in thine end, says YHWH, that thy children shall come again to their own border.
18. I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art YHWH my Elohim.
19. Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.
20. Is Ephraim My dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore My bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, says YHWH.
21. Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Yisrael, turn again to these thy cities.
22. How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for YHWH cuts-down-creates a chadashah-renewed-new thing in the erets: nqebah-female shall encompass gaber-man!

The final line of the above passage is foundational to the renewed covenant understanding: nqabah-female shall encompass gaber-andri-man, (Greek aner-andra is essentially the equivalent of Hebrew geber-gaber). The woman-wife-bride in this understanding is therefore likened to a bride having been prepared for the adornment of her geber-andri-man, (Rev 21:2). It is the New Covenant which is New Yerushalem that descends out of the heavens from the Father, (Mat 3:16-17, Luke 3:22, John 3:27-29, 2 Cor 5:1-4, Rev 3:12, Rev 21:2). :)

OCTOBER23
January 2nd, 2016, 10:09 PM
Forty-two is the third primary pseudoperfect number and the pronic number

and an abundant number of its prime factorization 2 3 7

which makes it the second sphenic number and also the second of the form (2 3 r).

As with all sphenic numbers of this form, the aliquot sum is abundant by 12.

42 is also the second sphenic number

to be bracketed by twin primes; 30 is also a pronic number

and also rests between two primes. 42 has a 14-member

aliquot sequence 42, 54, 66, 78, 90, 144, 259, 45, 33, 15, 9, 4, 3, 1, 0

and is itself part of the aliquot sequence commencing with the first sphenic number 30.

Further, 42 is the 10th member of the 3-aliquot tree.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, see the Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy for the Answer to the Ultimate question

which is 42 turned upon itself which is 24 which is the year of the return of JESUS to the Earth.

Sept.24, 2024.

patrick jane
January 2nd, 2016, 10:19 PM
Well great, you have about 8 years before your prediction is wrong. Brilliant !!

patrick jane
January 2nd, 2016, 10:20 PM
I say the end of the world happens when I die.

OCTOBER23
January 2nd, 2016, 10:22 PM
patrickjane,


Its something for you to look forty to.

:rotfl:

patrick jane
January 2nd, 2016, 10:25 PM
By the way there is an acceptable answer for the forty-two generations. :)

:sheep: (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4314108&postcount=833)

Yes because within 41 generations, one extra can pop up anytime

daqq
January 2nd, 2016, 10:55 PM
Great posts. As to your opening question, I can. WE are one with that 42 generation, the offspring of the Lamb standing on the mount, a generation (who shall declare/show openly HIS generation?) that spans all generations because it is SPIRIT, because the Seed is Spirit. When He comes He comes with myriads of His saints. Peace

Truly said, for the 144000 which Yochanan immersed are the firstfruits of the All Yisrael of YHWH, that is, the birth of the "man-child" nation in a day, (Isaiah 66:7-8). We read a secret concerning this in the Luke account of the immersion of Yeshua:

Luke 3:21-22 Transliterated Unaccented
21. Egeneto de en to baptisthenai hapanta ton laon kai Iesou baptisthentos kai proseuchomenou aneochthenai ton ouranon:
22. kai katabenai to Pneuma to Hagion somatiko eidei hos peristeran ep auton: kai fonen exouranou genesthai, "Su ei ho Huios mou ho agapetos, en soi eudokesa!"

Luke 3:21-22
21. Moreover it came to pass in the whole of the people [hapas-hapanta: absolutely all, every single one] being immersed that Yeshua also immersed; and praying, the heavens were opened:
22. And the Spirit the Hagion [Holy One? as in Acts 3:14 KJV?] in somatiko-bodily form like a dove descended upon him: and a voice out of heaven came to be, "You are My son, the loved-beloved, ["David" = loved-loving, Re: Eze 34:23-24, Eze 37:24-25] in you I am well pleased!"

RBBI
January 3rd, 2016, 01:11 PM
Amen....If we die with Him (water baptism/type of being comfortable to His death), then we shall also be raised with Him (baptism of Spirit/type of being baptized into the life of the Spirit). No greater love has any man than this, that he lay down His life for his friend. The Head with His many membered body pattern was shown that day, along with the qualification for being a part of it. Peace

patrick jane
January 3rd, 2016, 01:14 PM
42 = 7 touchdowns

keypurr
January 3rd, 2016, 11:09 PM
The Son of man cannot be born of a woman otherwise it is the most oxymoronic statement ever contrived: for who would say that a man born of a woman is the Son of man? In addition this is according to the Testimony of Yeshua himself who clearly and emphatically states that of those having been born of women there had arisen none greater than Yochanan:

Matthew 11:7-11
7. And as they departed, Yeshua began to say unto the multitudes concerning Yochanan, What went you out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8. But what went you out for to behold? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in houses of kings.
9. But what went you out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10. For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. [Exodus 23:20 Septuagint]
11. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than Yochanan the Immerser: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

This statement necessarily includes the man Yeshua himself and therefore the Son of man is not born of a woman; otherwise Yochanan would have been the greater. The Son of man is the Testimony Word of the man Yeshua which he himself says is Spirit and Life:

John 6:62-63
62. And what if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63. It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.

:sheep:

AMEN

keypurr
January 3rd, 2016, 11:29 PM
Amen....If we die with Him (water baptism/type of being comfortable to His death), then we shall also be raised with Him (baptism of Spirit/type of being baptized into the life of the Spirit). No greater love has any man than this, that he lay down His life for his friend. The Head with His many membered body pattern was shown that day, along with the qualification for being a part of it. Peace

Good post friend