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CherubRam
June 14th, 2015, 08:55 AM
Son of God

The word nephilim is not a name title, and it should have been translated as the "fallen ones." It is referring to those who have fallen spiritually and are in moral decline.

Luke 3:38. ...the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Genesis 6:2
the sons of God saw that the daughters of [humans / men] were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim [fallen ones] were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of [humans / men] and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown

Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’

John 10:34
Yahshua answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’ ? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside — 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

Matthew 4:3
The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

Matthew 4:6
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’ ”

Matthew 8:29
“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to punish us before the appointed time?”

Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat said to him, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 26:63
But Yahshua remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

Matthew 27:40
and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!”

Matthew 27:43
He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”


Matthew 27:54
When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Yahshua saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”

Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Yahshua the Messiah, the Son of God,

Mark 3:11
Whenever the impure spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.”

Mark 15:39
And when the centurion who stood there in front of Yahshua saw how he died, he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”

Luke 1:35
The messenger answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Luke 3:38
the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Luke 4:3
The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”

Luke 4:9
The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here.

Luke 4:41
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Messiah.


Luke 22:70
They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You say that I am.”

CherubRam
June 14th, 2015, 08:57 AM
John 1:49
Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.”

John 5:25
Very truly I tell you, a time is coming when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.

John 11:27
“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

John 19:7
The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”

John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Yahshua is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Acts 9:20
At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Yahshua is the Son of God.

Romans 1:4
and who through the Spirit of holiness was appointed the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Yahshua the Messiah our lord.

2 Corinthians 1:19
For the Son of God, Yahshua the Messiah, who was preached among you by us—by me and Silas and Timothy—was not “Yes” and “No,” but in him it has always been “Yes.”

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with the Messiah and I no longer live, but the Messiah lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 4:13
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Hebrews 4:14
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Yahshua, the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.

Hebrews 6:6
and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 7:3
Without father or mother, without genealogy, beginning of days without end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

Hebrews 10:29
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

1 John 3:8
The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

1 John 4:15
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.

1 John 5:5
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Yahshua is the Son of God.

1 John 5:10
Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.

1 John 5:12
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son, Yahshua the Messiah.

Revelation 2:18
[ To the Church in Thyatira ] “To the messenger of the church in Thyatira write: These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze.

daqq
June 15th, 2015, 11:24 AM
Son of God

The word nephilim is not a name title, and it should have been translated as the "fallen ones." It is referring to those who have fallen spiritually and are in moral decline.

Luke 3:38. ...the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Genesis 6:2
the sons of God saw that the daughters of [humans / men] were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.

Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim [fallen ones] were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of [humans / men] and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown

Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’

John 10:34
Yahshua answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’ ? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside — 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

Matthew 4:3
The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

Matthew 4:6
“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’ ”

Matthew 8:29
“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to punish us before the appointed time?”

Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat said to him, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 26:63
But Yahshua remained silent. The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”

Matthew 27:40
and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!”

Matthew 27:43
He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’”

Matthew 27:54
When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Yahshua saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, “Surely he was the Son of God!”

Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Yahshua the Messiah, the Son of God,

Mark 3:11
Whenever the impure spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, “You are the Son of God.”

Mark 15:39
And when the centurion who stood there in front of Yahshua saw how he died, he said, “Surely this man was the Son of God!”

Luke 1:35
The messenger answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Luke 3:38
the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Luke 4:3
The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”

Luke 4:9
The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here.

Luke 4:41
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Messiah.

Luke 22:70
They all asked, “Are you then the Son of God?” He replied, “You say that I am.”


Genesis 6:2
2. Wayir'uw bney-ha-'Elohiym 'et- bnowt ha'adam kiy Tobot henah wayiqchuwlahem nashiym mikol 'sher bacharuw.

"bney-ha-'Elohiym" : "sons of the Elohim" ("sons of the Angels", re: 1-Enoch).

Genesis 6:4
4. Ha-Npiliym hayuw ba'arets bayamiym hahem wgam 'achrey- ken 'sher yabo'uw bney ha-'Elohiym 'el- bnowt ha'adam wyalduw lahem hemah hagiboriym 'sher me`owlam 'anshey hashem.

"bney ha-'Elohiym" : "sons of the Elohim" ("sons of the Angels", re: 1-Enoch).

Matthew 4:3
3. Kai proselthon ho peirazon eipenauto, "Ei huios ei tou Theou, eipe hina hoi lithoi houtoi artoi genontai!"

"Ei huios ei tou Theou" : "If you are a son of Elohim"

Matthew 4:6
6. kai legei auto, "Ei huios ei tou Theou, baleseauton kato! Gegraptai gar hoti "Tois angelois autou enteleitai peri sou" kai "epi cheiron arousin se, mepote proskopses pros lithon ton poda sou"."

"Ei huios ei tou Theou" : "If you are a son of Elohim"

Matthew 8:29
29. Kai idou, ekraxan legontes, "Ti hemin kai soi, huie tou Theou? Elthes hode pro kairou basanisai hemas?"

"Ti hemin kai soi, huie tou Theou?" : "What to us and you, son of Elohim?"

Matthew 14:33
33. Hoi de en to ploio prosekunesan auto legontes, "Alethos Theou huios ei!"

"Alethos Theou huios ei!" : "Truly an Elohim son you are!"
"Truly you are a son of Elohim!"

Matthew 26:63
63. Ho de Iesous esiopa. Kai ho archiereus eipen auto, "Exorkizo se kata tou Theou tou zontos hina hemin eipes ei su ei ho Christos, ho Huios tou Theou!"

"hina hemin eipes ei su ei ho Christos ho Huios tou Theou!"
"that you tell us if you are the Anointed One the Son of Elohim!"

Matthew 27:40
40. kai legontes, "Ho kataluon ton naon kai entrisin hemerais oikodomon, soson seauton! Ei huios ei tou Theou, kai katabethi apo tou staurou!"

"Ei huios ei tou Theou" : "If you are a son of Elohim"

Matthew 27:43
43. Pepoithen epi ton Theon ; rusastho nun, eithelei auton! Eipen gar hoti Theou eimi huios"!"

Eipen gar hoti Theou eimi huios"!" : "For he said that of Elohim I am a son!"
"For he said that "I am a son of Elohim!""

Matthew 27:54
54. Ho de hekatontarchos kai hoi met autou terounteston Iesoun idontes ton seismon kai ta genomenaefobethesan sfodra, legontes, "Alethos Theou huios en houtos!"

"Alethos Theou huios en houtos!" : "Truly of Elohim a son this was!"
"Truly this was a son of Elohim!"

Mark 1:1
1. Arche tou euangeliou Iesou Christou, Huiou Theou.

"Iesou Christou, Huiou Theou" : "Yeshua Christou, Son of Elohim"

Mark 3:11
11. Kai ta pneumata ta akatharta, hotan auton etheoroun, prosepipton auto kai ekrazon legontes hoti "Su ei ho Huios tou Theou!"

"Su ei ho Huios tou Theou!" : "You are the Son of Elohim!"

[Seems only the angels and devils could "see" the REAL Son of Elohim]

Mark 15:39
39. Idon de ho kenturion ho parestekos ex enantiasautou hoti houtos {*} exepneusen eipen, "Alethos houtos ho anthropos huios Theou en!"

"Alethos houtos ho anthropos huios Theou en!"
"Truly this/that man was a son of Elohim!"

Luke 1:35
35. Kai apokritheis ho angelos eipen aute, "Pneuma Hagion epeleusetai epi se, kai dunamis Hupsistou episkiasei soi. Dio kai to gennomenon {*} hagion klethesetai huios Theou.

"huios Theou" : "[a] son of Elohim"

Luke 3:38
38. tou Enos tou Seth tou Adam tou Theou.
38. of Enos, of Seth, of Adam, of Elohim.

Luke 4:3
3. Eipen de auto ho diabolos, "Ei huios ei tou Theou, eipe to litho touto hina genetai artos!"

"Ei huios ei tou Theou" : "If you are a son of Elohim"

Luke 4:9
9. Egagen de auton eis Ierousalem kai estesen {*}epi to pterugion tou hierou kai eipen auto, "Ei huios ei tou Theou, bale seauton enteuthen kato!

"Ei huios ei tou Theou" : "If you are a son of Elohim"

Luke 4:41
41. Exercheto de kai daimonia apopollon kraugazonta kai legonta hoti "Su ei {*} ho Huios tou Theou!" Kai epitimon ouk eia auta lalein, hotiedeisan ton Christon auton einai.

"Su ei ho Huios tou Theou!" : "You are the Son of Elohim"

Again, who are the daemonia speaking to here in the above passage where the definite article is used in the prase "the Son of Elohim"? It is not the man Yeshua they speak to but the Christos Spirit which abode-remained in-with-upon him.

Luke 22:70
70. Eipan de pantes, "Su oun ei ho Huios tou Theou?" Ho de pros autous efe, "Humeis legete hoti ego eimi."^
70. Moreover they all said, "Are you therefore the Son of Elohim?" But to them he said, "You yourselves say that I am."

Of course anyone could also have just posted the Greek but at least for those who want to look anything up the transliteration can be recognized in the romanized transliterated definitions, (it is simply an attempt not to leave anyone out of the discussion). :)

False Prophet
June 15th, 2015, 11:34 AM
[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude
The Nephilim were the angels that left their heavenly abode to be with the daughters of men, and they were locked out of heaven during the flood of Noah's day.
[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[5] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Pet

CherubRam
June 15th, 2015, 01:35 PM
[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude
The Nephilim were the angels that left their heavenly abode to be with the daughters of men, and they were locked out of heaven during the flood of Noah's day.
[4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
[5] And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Pet

2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, {a}

Footnotes:
{a} 2 Peter 2:4 Greek Tartarus

Tar-ta-rus (tartarus) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1. An infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Do you really think Pagan mythology belongs in the bible? It is the Catholics who changed scriptures by adding Pagan mythology.

CherubRam
November 7th, 2015, 06:13 AM
Bump

ttruscott
November 7th, 2015, 01:29 PM
...

"bney-ha-'Elohiym" : "sons of the Elohim" ("sons of the Angels", re: 1-Enoch).

...

a Google search of your phrase "sons of the Elohim" ("sons of the Angels", re: 1-Enoch) brings up this conversation here and one other site of dubious contentions: http://www.academia.edu/5878259/102_complete

I need more than your suggestion this phrase has some support in reality or Scripture and not just 1-enoch (whatever that means).

daqq
November 7th, 2015, 05:02 PM
a Google search of your phrase "sons of the Elohim" ("sons of the Angels", re: 1-Enoch) brings up this conversation here and one other site of dubious contentions: http://www.academia.edu/5878259/102_complete

I need more than your suggestion this phrase has some support in reality or Scripture and not just 1-enoch (whatever that means).

While I may not be a "Hebrew scholar" I do know enough to know that the Hebrew language does not tolerate the definite article with personal nouns, (names). You can make "bney ha-Elohim" to say "the sons of God" but you are forcing it by moving the definite article from Elohim and putting it with bney-sons. What it says is "sons of the Elohim", or "sons of the Angels", or "sons of the Judges", etc., depending on the context. By the same way Enoch walked with "ha-Elohim" and this cannot be "Enoch walked with the God" but rather "Enoch walked with the gods", yet we know that Enoch walked not with "the gods" but with the seven holy Watchers who are Angels, (and the "eyes" of YHWH). The same thing is likewise stated of Noah: "Noach walked with ha-Elohim", that is, "the Angels", (of YHWH). When you see ha-Elohim in the text it does not mean "the God" because God is a personal noun without the definite article in the creation account throughout the first chapter of Genesis. Elohim is God but ha-Elohim is "the gods" or "the Angels". Bney ha-Elohim is a little more difficult but the weight of the evidence leans against the more common (mis)conception. :)

CherubRam
November 7th, 2015, 05:54 PM
While I may not be a "Hebrew scholar" I do know enough to know that the Hebrew language does not tolerate the definite article with personal nouns, (names). You can make "bney ha-Elohim" to say "the sons of God" but you are forcing it by moving the definite article from Elohim and putting it with bney-sons. What it says is "sons of the Elohim", or "sons of the Angels", or "sons of the Judges", etc., depending on the context. By the same way Enoch walked with "ha-Elohim" and this cannot be "Enoch walked with the God" but rather "Enoch walked with the gods", yet we know that Enoch walked not with "the gods" but with the seven holy Watchers who are Angels, (and the "eyes" of YHWH). The same thing is likewise stated of Noah: "Noach walked with ha-Elohim", that is, "the Angels", (of YHWH). When you see ha-Elohim in the text it does not mean "the God" because God is a personal noun without the definite article in the creation account throughout the first chapter of Genesis. Elohim is God but ha-Elohim is "the gods" or "the Angels". Bney ha-Elohim is a little more difficult but the weight of the evidence leans against the more common (mis)conception. :)

Elohiym or elohiym is speaking of the God of living (many / beings,) or it is speaking of the gods of the living (many / beings.)
Elohiym is a name title for Yahwah and other beings who have or will have life immortal.

Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are (“gods / elohiyms”); you are all sons of the Most High.’

John 10:34-35-36
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

aikido7
November 7th, 2015, 06:05 PM
When God walked among us in Jesus, it was not the final stage of humanity.

Jesus spoke of humans becoming the “sons and the daughters of God.”
I interpret this as the Kingdom of God spreading out into the world and being carried on by us.

After the incarnation, it is the obvious next step in our spiritual evolution.

daqq
November 7th, 2015, 06:05 PM
Elohiym or elohiym is speaking of the God of living (many / beings,) or it is speaking of the gods of the living (many / beings.)
Elohiym is a name title for Yahwah and other beings who have or will have life immortal.

Psalm 82:6
“I said, ‘You are (“gods / elohiyms”); you are all sons of the Most High.’

John 10:34-35-36
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

True but Elohim is also rendered "Angels" in some places such as Hebrews 2:7, quoting Psalm 8:5, and a few other places from the Psalms as rendered aggelos-angelon in the Septuagint. The Torah was given through the instrumentality of Angels, as stated by Stephen in Acts 7:53, and was ordained through Angels by the hand of a mediator, that is, the mediator Moses, as stated by Paul in Galatians 3:19. Therefore your rendering of Psalm 82:6 may or may not be correct. :)

CherubRam
November 7th, 2015, 06:35 PM
True but Elohim is also rendered "Angels" in some places such as Hebrews 2:7, quoting Psalm 8:5, and a few other places from the Psalms as rendered aggelos-angelon in the Septuagint. The Torah was given through the instrumentality of Angels, as stated by Stephen in Acts 7:53, and was ordained through Angels by the hand of a mediator, that is, the mediator Moses, as stated by Paul in Galatians 3:19. Therefore your rendering of Psalm 82:6 may or may not be correct. :)
Angels are part of the Pagan religions. However, there are messengers. The word "angel" for "elohiym" is an error on the part of the translator.

daqq
November 7th, 2015, 09:13 PM
Angels are part of the Pagan religions. However, there are messengers. The word "angel" for "elohiym" is an error on the part of the translator.

No it is not a mistake because the Septuagint renders Elohim in Psalm 8:5 as angelous/aggelous and the author of Hebrews quotes from the Septuagint just as most of the Apostolic writings likewise do. You therefore now insinuate that Yeshua was a pagan for stating that he could pray the Father and He would send him more than twelve legions of Angels, (Matthew 26:53). Are you now going to claim that every instance of angels in the Gospel accounts was either added or mistranslated by pagans? The fact of the matter is that at one time the word elohim was indeed understood to mean angels in some cases, (clearly not all) but it is that understanding of the ancients which has now been stamped out by modern translations for the most part. And yet thus far in this conversation is only the proverbial tip of the iceberg.

CherubRam
November 8th, 2015, 12:20 AM
No it is not a mistake because the Septuagint renders Elohim in Psalm 8:5 as angelous/aggelous and the author of Hebrews quotes from the Septuagint just as most of the Apostolic writings likewise do. You therefore now insinuate that Yeshua was a pagan for stating that he could pray the Father and He would send him more than twelve legions of Angels, (Matthew 26:53). Are you now going to claim that every instance of angels in the Gospel accounts was either added or mistranslated by pagans? The fact of the matter is that at one time the word elohim was indeed understood to mean angels in some cases, (clearly not all) but it is that understanding of the ancients which has now been stamped out by modern translations for the most part. And yet thus far in this conversation is only the proverbial tip of the iceberg.

:doh: Gnostic's and Pagan's corrupted the scriptures. If you had a study bible you would see that.