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tetelestai
May 26th, 2015, 09:30 AM
In a previous thread started by heir, heir closed the thread because she knows that 2 Peter 3 completely destroys her "two gospel" theory.

Here is the post that upset heir so much, that she closed the thread:


Paul said the following to the Galatians:

(Gal 1:8 KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Peter also wrote an epistle to the Galatians:

(1 Peter 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

But, Paul tells the Galatians if anyone preaches a different gospel he preached to them, that they are to be accursed.

So, pretend your a Galatian in Galatia circa 55AD. A letter comes to your city from the Apostle Paul, and the letter says that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed. Then a letter comes to your city from Peter (that heir claims is a different gospel).

If what heir claims is true, then Peter, and anyone who preached what Peter sent to the Galatians would be accursed if it was really a different gospel (heir's claim)

So, it's impossible that Peter and Paul preached different gospels to the Galatians. Yet, that is what heir claims.

heir likes to quote 1 Cor 15:1-4, but she apparently doesn't read past verse 4

(1 Cor 15:11 KJV) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

tetelestai
May 26th, 2015, 09:31 AM
(2 Peter 3:15 KJV) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Peter is telling the Galatians that Paul had previously written to them.

Yet, heir claims that the Galatians Peter is writing to are being preached a different gospel than Paul preached, despite Peter clearly telling the Galatians that Paul has previously written to them.

jamie
May 26th, 2015, 09:36 AM
The Galatian congregation was Christian and Paul was speaking to them not to be influenced by Judaizers who claimed they must be circumcised and keep the law.

SaulToPaul
May 26th, 2015, 09:53 AM
Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

Romans 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

Danoh
May 26th, 2015, 09:54 AM
(2 Peter 3:15 KJV) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Peter is telling the Galatians that Paul had previously written to them.

Yet, heir claims that the Galatians Peter is writing to are being preached a different gospel than Paul preached, despite Peter clearly telling the Galatians that Paul has previously written to them.

The absence of all you have left out that your two and two equal four is about as fully informed as one of those shameful smear campaigns most politicians engage in around election time.

In this, you are either being knowingly dishonest, or your recurrently made obvious doctrine as one learned from the traditions of men not only betrays your ignorance of the Scriptural narrative once more, but reveals just how incapable of studying these issues out in Scripture the reasoning of men your books are based on, has left you.

Then again, what can one expect of one such as you; who asserts that "Jesus returned in 70AD" because your books assert that same error.

In this, your every word is impossible to respect with anything other than amazement at the arrogant ignorance that is yours.

Put your books away. Get in, and stay in...The Book.

SaulToPaul
May 26th, 2015, 09:54 AM
(1 Cor 15:11 KJV) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

john w
May 26th, 2015, 10:11 AM
...

Yet, heir claims that .

Yet, you claim that your saint Judas preached the gospel/good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.


Why is that, Preterist Perverter Craigie?

Mocking You
May 26th, 2015, 10:33 AM
According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

But, Paul tells the Galatians if anyone preaches a different gospel he preached to them, that they are to be accursed.

So, pretend your a Galatian in Galatia circa 55AD. A letter comes to your city from the Apostle Paul, and the letter says that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed. Then a letter comes to your city from Peter (that heir claims is a different gospel).

If what heir claims is true, then Peter, and anyone who preached what Peter sent to the Galatians would be accursed if it was really a different gospel (heir's claim)

So, it's impossible that Peter and Paul preached different gospels to the Galatians. Yet, that is what heir claims.


I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me you need to show that Peter's gospel/instructions/epistle to the Galatians differed from Paul's gospel/instructions/epistle to the Galatians.

Maybe the subject matter they each covered was different.

Or do you suppose Peter wrote to them and said, "Paul's gospel is accursed"?

Ben Masada
May 26th, 2015, 11:18 AM
The Galatian congregation was Christian and Paul was speaking to them not to be influenced by Judaizers who claimed they must be circumcised and keep the law.

Do you mean Paul was teaching the Galatians how to be outlaws? You must know that above the Law only God is, law-abiding citizens are those under the Law and, those who don't keep the Law are obviously the outlaws.

tetelestai
May 26th, 2015, 12:09 PM
Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

Romans 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

The verses you quote do not address the OP.

The OP makes it clear that both Paul and Peter wrote epistles to the Galatians.

Paul told the Galatians that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed.

Peter tells the Galatians that Paul had previously wrote letters to them.

Yet, you want us to believe that after Paul wrote letters to the Galatians, Peter came and preached a different gospel to them.

If what you claim is true (it's not), then the Galatians would have had to accurst Peter based on what Paul told them.

tetelestai
May 26th, 2015, 12:11 PM
Put your books away.

That's pretty funny coming from a Darby follower.


Get in, and stay in...The Book.

So far, including you, not one Dispensationalist has actually addressed 2 Peter 3

tetelestai
May 26th, 2015, 12:13 PM
1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Desperation on your part.

We're discussing Paul's and Peter's epistles to the Galatians.

The church at Corinth was on a different continent than the church in Galatia.

You claim Peter preached a different gospel to the Galatians than the gospel Paul preached to the Galatians.

Why don't you actually address what Peter said in 2 Peter 3?

tetelestai
May 26th, 2015, 12:17 PM
I don't have a dog in this fight, but it seems to me you need to show that Peter's gospel/instructions/epistle to the Galatians differed from Paul's gospel/instructions/epistle to the Galatians.

I'm saying both Paul and Peter preached the same gospel to the Galatians.

MADists such as STP & heir claim Paul preached a different gospel to the Galatians than Peter preached to the Galatians.


Maybe the subject matter they each covered was different.

It was different.

That doesn't mean it was a different gospel.


Or do you suppose Peter wrote to them and said, "Paul's gospel is accursed"?

I wouldn't be surprised if that's what STP and heir think.

As I said, if Peter preached a different gospel to the Galatians, then according to Paul's epistle to the Galatians, Peter would have been accursed.

jamie
May 26th, 2015, 12:21 PM
Do you mean Paul was teaching the Galatians how to be outlaws?


Outlaws? No, Paul was teaching that the law given through Moses was not for Gentiles. If by outlaws you mean those without the Mosaic law then that is simply your way of looking at Paul's teachings.

Paul explains that God is not the God of the Jews only.


Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. (Romans 3:28-30 NKJV)

john w
May 26th, 2015, 12:22 PM
That's pretty funny coming from a Darby follower.



So far, including you, not one Dispensationalist has actually addressed 2 Peter 3

The loser had to get that "Darby" spam/puzzler in, as the punk can't defend his "one piece of good news" in the bible "invention," so he inevitiably, being the good closet Catholic that he is, throws up his "Hail Mary."

That's your best shot, Craigie? So impressive.

john w
May 26th, 2015, 12:24 PM
Desperation on your part.

We're discussing Paul's and Peter's epistles to the Galatians.

The church at Corinth was on a different continent than the church in Galatia.

You claim Peter preached a different gospel to the Galatians than the gospel Paul preached to the Galatians.

Why don't you actually address what Peter said in 2 Peter 3?

You claim that your saint Judas preached the gospel/good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.


Why is that, Preterist Perverter Craigie?

Not a peep, as he won't go "one on one" with the great saint John W., knowing that I'll pick him apart.

Ben Masada
May 26th, 2015, 12:35 PM
Outlaws? No, Paul was teaching that the law given through Moses was not for Gentiles. If by outlaws you mean those without the Mosaic law then that is simply your way of looking at Paul's teachings.

Paul explains that God is not the God of the Jews only.

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. (Romans 3:28-30)

Have you ever read the Law aka the Decalogue? The major part of the Decalogue is about the Law for both Jews and Gentiles. If you obey it, you are free of charge. That's the Mosaic Law.

Most definitely, God is the God of the whole Earth but, because the children of Israel were the first to choose Him for their God, we have become known as God's children.

Man is justified by his obedience to God's Law. Hence, James said that faith without the works of the Law is akin to a body without the breath of life. Really dead, Jamie.(James 2:26) Therefore, neither by faith nor by circumcision are we justified but by the Law. Just happened that circumcision was included for the Jews, and faith only was commanded by Paul. (II Cor. 5:7)

john w
May 26th, 2015, 12:38 PM
"I am not here to teach, instruct, evangelize, or advise anyone."-Preterist Perverter Craigee Tet.

"Thread"/spam of Craigie shut down. The end. Closed.RIP. DOA.

tetelestai
May 26th, 2015, 12:54 PM
As we see, every time a Dispensationalist makes a post, the Dispensationalists completely ignores 2 Peter 3.

It's very telling how the Dispensationalists keep ignoring what is actually written in 2 Peter 3.

Mocking You
May 26th, 2015, 12:57 PM
I'm saying both Paul and Peter preached the same gospel to the Galatians.

MADists such as STP & heir claim Paul preached a different gospel to the Galatians than Peter preached to the Galatians.

OK. But how do you know what Peter wrote to the Galatians regarding the gospel?

In 2 Peter 3:15 Peter says, "just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him."

There's no indication that what Paul wrote is the same as what Peter wrote. The phrase "just as" could be taken both ways: Paul wrote the same thing, or Paul wrote something different.

Furthermore, Peter says that Paul wrote with the wisdom God gave to him. This could mean that God revealed something different to Paul than he did to Peter. Or not. Hard to tell.

Danoh
May 26th, 2015, 01:01 PM
The verses you quote do not address the OP.

The OP makes it clear that both Paul and Peter wrote epistles to the Galatians.

Paul told the Galatians that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed.

Peter tells the Galatians that Paul had previously wrote letters to them.

Yet, you want us to believe that after Paul wrote letters to the Galatians, Peter came and preached a different gospel to them.

If what you claim is true (it's not), then the Galatians would have had to accurst Peter based on what Paul told them.

Actually, all the passages we quote address these issues - because the passages are all interrelated.

The problem is that you have been so conditioned by the reasoning your books supposedly about the Bible have turned into a truth, add to this, that you have no actual Bible in you as a result, that yours is reading into the passages, such notions as "Christ returned in 70 AD via the Romans Army," that you are simply unable to see the answers you supposedly want, in the passages we post.

To this you then add the projection that we get this from books.

Yours is the autobiography of your failure projected onto others.

You well know you get your reasoning from books. You and yours all do this.

Your books based reasoning has left you that blind - you cannot see that you are projecting your notion of "learn about the Word from books" as the practice of all who do not agree with you.

Bad enough your notion of "Christ returned in 70AD via the Roman Army" is heresy.

Fact of the matter is that Galatians 1's "another gospel, which is not another" of the same kind, is the issue of a gospel that was neither Peter's nor Paul's.

Rather, it was a fusion of Law with Grace into another gospel, which was not another at all, and this was only part of the issue.

Not sure what your problem is, but it sure does not come across as any kind of an appeal fro the truth of these issues.

It comes across as more just one more example of someone else out there as bad off in his approach towards others where they differ with one's own, no matter what it is they are asserting is the truth.

You and yours in this biting and devouring spirit - regardless of what field and or truth you each assert is the truth of a matter - are all over the net.

Darby is not your issue. We are not your issue. Truth is not your issue.

Issue is your issue, you fool.

Jerry Shugart
May 26th, 2015, 01:11 PM
As we see, every time a Dispensationalist makes a post, the Dispensationalists completely ignores 2 Peter 3.

It's very telling how the Dispensationalists keep ignoring what is actually written in 2 Peter 3.

I am a dispensationalist of the Mid Acts variety, and I say that all of those Peter addressed in his epistles were members of the Body of Christ. Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Therefore, this matches with what Peter said at 2 Peter 3.

However, that does not change the fact that during the Acts period Paul preached two different gospels. When Paul went to the Jews this is the central message he preached:


"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).

The Jews who believed that message received life the moment they believed that message (Jn.20:31) and they were also "born of God" the moment they believed it (1 Jn.5:1-5).

The message Paul preached to the Gentiles was the "gospel of grace," that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

Belief in that gospel saved those who believed the moment when they believed.

john w
May 26th, 2015, 01:34 PM
As we see, every time a Dispensationalist makes a post, the Dispensationalists completely ignores 2 Peter 3.

It's very telling how the Dispensationalists keep ignoring what is actually written in 2 Peter 3.

One of the punk's spams-"MAD ignores.."


Shut up, Corkie the Clown. Your satanic clown act bores us.

Ben Masada
May 26th, 2015, 02:18 PM
As we see, every time a Dispensationalist makes a post, the Dispensationalists completely ignores 2 Peter 3.

It's very telling how the Dispensationalists keep ignoring what is actually written in 2 Peter 3.

Peter never wrote those two Letters attributed to him. If you read I Peter 5:12, you will see the evidence that Paul wrote those letters and not Peter. How is it? We have in that quote that Peter dictated his letters to Silvanus, the scribe of Paul if you read II Cor. 1:19; I Thess. 1:1; and II Thess. 2:1. Paul would never permit his scribe to take dictations from an apostle of the circumcision.

jamie
May 26th, 2015, 02:33 PM
Have you ever read the Law aka the Decalogue? The major part of the Decalogue is about the Law for both Jews and Gentiles.


Have you ever read Leviticus 23?

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 02:42 PM
In a previous thread started by heir, heir closed the thread because she knows that 2 Peter 3 completely destroys her "two gospel" theory.

Here is the post that upset heir so much, that she closed the thread:


Paul said the following to the Galatians:

(Gal 1:8 KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Peter also wrote an epistle to the Galatians:

(1 Peter 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

But, Paul tells the Galatians if anyone preaches a different gospel he preached to them, that they are to be accursed.

So, pretend your a Galatian in Galatia circa 55AD. A letter comes to your city from the Apostle Paul, and the letter says that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed. Then a letter comes to your city from Peter (that heir claims is a different gospel).

If what heir claims is true, then Peter, and anyone who preached what Peter sent to the Galatians would be accursed if it was really a different gospel (heir's claim)

So, it's impossible that Peter and Paul preached different gospels to the Galatians. Yet, that is what heir claims.

heir likes to quote 1 Cor 15:1-4, but she apparently doesn't read past verse 4

(1 Cor 15:11 KJV) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

What you say here is excellent. It is much enjoyed reading of the Truth.

Ben Masada
May 26th, 2015, 02:47 PM
Have you ever read Leviticus 23?

I am talking about the commandments in the Decalogue and not festivals. I know that the festivals are for the Jews only and not for Gentiles but the whole second part of the Decalogue applies to all, Jews and Gentiles.

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 02:47 PM
I am a dispensationalist of the Mid Acts variety, and I say that all of those Peter addressed in his epistles were members of the Body of Christ. Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:


"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).

In this passage Paul uses the pronoun "we" twice and from his introduction in that same epistle we can know that that pronoun is not only referring to those in the church at Corinth but also "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":


"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ. Therefore, this matches with what Peter said at 2 Peter 3.

However, that does not change the fact that during the Acts period Paul preached two different gospels. When Paul went to the Jews this is the central message he preached:


"And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God...proving that this is the very Christ" (Acts 9:20,22).

The Jews who believed that message received life the moment they believed that message (Jn.20:31) and they were also "born of God" the moment they believed it (1 Jn.5:1-5).

The message Paul preached to the Gentiles was the "gospel of grace," that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

Belief in that gospel saved those who believed the moment when they believed.

Paul only preached one gospel.

Paul would have cursed himself if he preached another.

There is only one gospel, and that is the Sacrificial Lamb died for the sins of the WORLD.

Ben Masada
May 26th, 2015, 02:53 PM
1 - Paul only preached one gospel.

2 - Paul would have cursed himself if he preached another.

3 - There is only one gospel, and that is the Sacrificial Lamb died for the sins of the WORLD.

1 - Yes, his gospel.

2 - No, he would curse another who preached a different gospel from his. (Gal. 1:6 -9)

3 - That's the gospel of Paul. There is another one; the gospel of Jesus which was Judaism. You have forgotten that Jesus was a Jew.

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 03:03 PM
1 - Yes, his gospel.

2 - No, he would curse another who preached a different gospel from his. (Gal. 1:6 -9)

3 - That's the gospel of Paul. There is another one; the gospel of Jesus which was Judaism. You have forgotten that Jesus was a Jew.

If Paul preached a different gospel than the one Jesus preached, then Paul either cursed himself, or Jesus and the other Apostles.

Paul preached the same thing that Jesus preached.

Believe and obey Jesus.

john w
May 26th, 2015, 03:09 PM
There is only one gospel, and that is the Sacrificial Lamb died for the sins of the WORLD]



Cousin It once again praises her saint Judas, asserting that Judas preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

Ssssssssssssssssss........................

jamie
May 26th, 2015, 03:13 PM
I am talking about the commandments in the Decalogue and not festivals. I know that the festivals are for the Jews only and not for Gentiles but the whole second part of the Decalogue applies to all, Jews and Gentiles.


What? So you're saying part of the Torah only applies to Israel and part of it applies to Israel and all the other nations? Is that because you believe Moses went to all the nations and explained to them the Law of Moses so that God could hold them accountable?

Actually, there is nothing in the Torah that says God has a double standard. Gentiles could become part of Israel and be regarded as native born, but it doesn't go the other way with Israelites becoming uncircumcised, which is not easily accomplished.

aikido7
May 26th, 2015, 03:14 PM
Paul met Jesus' original followers and disciples in Jerusalem (Peter, Jesus' brother James and others).

He scornfully called them "super apostles" and his letters reveal a theological conflict he had with the Jerusalem church. It was ostensibly about sharing meals but it also revolved around circumcision for Gentiles.

Paul appears to me very sensitive about his place in the hierarchy.

Ben Masada
May 26th, 2015, 03:15 PM
If Paul preached a different gospel than the one Jesus preached, then Paul either cursed himself, or Jesus and the other Apostles.

Paul preached the same thing that Jesus preached.

Believe and obey Jesus.

Jesus, as a Jew, never preached bodily resurrection or that he was the son of God without a biological father. These thing were fabricated by Paul. (Acts 9:20)

aikido7
May 26th, 2015, 03:18 PM
Paul only preached one gospel.

Paul would have cursed himself if he preached another.

There is only one gospel, and that is the Sacrificial Lamb died for the sins of the WORLD.There are four gospels--five if you count the letters of Paul.

Paul and John are the only writers who contend that Jesus became appointed by God because of his death from crucifixion.

John was so determined to show Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb of God that he even changed the day Jesus died. John's gospel says Jesus was killed one day earlier so it would be on the Day of Preparation when the lambs were killed for the Paschal meal.

Mark, Luke and Matthew have Jesus dying on Passover.

These are separate traditions and theologies. Each gospel writer was inspired to write about the Jesus they knew, and every community of believers was different.

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 03:19 PM
Jesus, as a Jew, never preached bodily resurrection or that he was the son of God without a biological father. These thing were fabricated by Paul. (Acts 9:20)

Do you really not know the scriptures of the virgin Mary?

Ben Masada
May 26th, 2015, 03:21 PM
Paul met Jesus' original followers and disciples in Jerusalem (Peter, Jesus' brother James and others).

He scornfully called them "super apostles" and his letters reveal a theological conflict he had with the Jerusalem church. It was ostensibly about sharing meals but it also revolved around circumcision for Gentiles.

Paul appears to me very sensitive about his place in the hierarchy.

After listening to the gospel preached by the Apostles of Jesus, the impression Paul was left with was that the Apostles were preaching about a different Jesus and, for that matter, he considered them as false apostles. (II Cor. 11:4 -6, 13)

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 03:22 PM
There are four gospels--five if you count the letters of Paul.

There are not five gospels. There is one gospel and many peoples who preached it.




Paul and John are the only writers who contend that Jesus became appointed by God because of his death from crucifixion.

John was so determine to show Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb of God that he even changed the day Jesus died so it would be on the Day of Preparation when the lambs were killed for the Paschal meal.
Mark, Luke and Matthew have Jesus dying on Passover.

You would rather put yourself above a writer of the scriptures than admit you are wrong.

Ben Masada
May 26th, 2015, 03:27 PM
What? So you're saying part of the Torah only applies to Israel and part of it applies to Israel and all the other nations? Is that because you believe Moses went to all the nations and explained to them the Law of Moses so that God could hold them accountable?

Actually, there is nothing in the Torah that says God has a double standard. Gentiles could become part of Israel and be regarded as native born, but it doesn't go the other way with Israelites becoming uncircumcised, which is not easily accomplished.

If you mean to imply that every thing either in the Decalogue but also the festivals, you are in big trouble lady. Haven't you ever heard about the Noahide laws? These are the laws for the Gentiles while the Jews have all the laws. It just happened that the Noahide laws include the greater part of the Decalogue. Yes, if you want to call that "double standard", so be it. You can take it with whoever wrote the Torah.

Ben Masada
May 26th, 2015, 03:34 PM
Do you really not know the scriptures of the virgin Mary?

I do. Mary was a virgin in terms of a young woman ready to carry a babe. That's called in Hebrew "Almah". An "Almah" can be married and have babies. She ceases being an "Almah" when she can conceive no more. The Physical virgin is called "Betulah". That was not the case with Mary.

The virgin according to Isa. 7:14 is a reference to Israel which is confirmed by Amos 5:2 and the child called Immanuel was Judah if you read Isa. 7:14, 15, 22 and 8:8.

aikido7
May 26th, 2015, 03:44 PM
After listening to the gospel preached by the Apostles of Jesus, the impression Paul was left with was that the Apostles were preaching about a different Jesus and, for that matter, he considered them as false apostles. (II Cor. 11:4 -6, 13)Paul found a theology that helped him understand Jesus' mission.

The illiterate fishermen who followed Jesus around were not theologians. They did not use concepts like "died for our sins" or saw Jesus as divine. That interpretation came later.

User Name
May 26th, 2015, 03:46 PM
heir likes to quote 1 Cor 15:1-4, but she apparently doesn't read past verse 4

(1 Cor 15:11 KJV) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

I'd like to know which part of 1 Cor 15:1-4 Peter didn't preach.

aikido7
May 26th, 2015, 03:47 PM
There are not five gospels. There is one gospel and many peoples who preached it.



You would rather put yourself above a writer of the scriptures than admit you are wrong.Wait a minute. You are offering a subjective interpretation.

I try not to put myself above anyone. I am honest and admit that I do not know if I am right or not. I just study the Bible and then try to learn what a particular verse meant to its original author.

Only then can I apply it to the world today.

Some call Paul's letters a "gospel." I was trying to be fair and understandable to the fellow believes who call his preaching a "gospel."

They deserve respect and positive regard the same as anyone else.

Danoh
May 26th, 2015, 04:51 PM
Been there, done that many times - regrettably, trying to clear these things up to supposed "Messianics" will get one about as far as the art of Aikido as a supposed self-defense art will in actual street fights.

Was it B.Lee that had referred to such arts as organized despair?

1Mind1Spirit
May 26th, 2015, 05:24 PM
Been there, done that many times - regrettably, trying to clear these things up to supposed "Messianics" will get one about as far as the art of Aikido as a supposed self-defense art will in actual street fights.

Was it B.Lee that had referred to such arts as organized despair?

Are you admitting that unlike Paul, Dispies are beating the air?:eek:

Jerry Shugart
May 26th, 2015, 06:08 PM
There is only one gospel, and that is the Sacrificial Lamb died for the sins of the WORLD.

Only by believing a gospel is a person saved. And believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, saves:

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

We can also see that those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God are born of God.

Are you willing to argue that this "good news" which saves is not a gospel?

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 06:44 PM
I do. Mary was a virgin in terms of a young woman ready to carry a babe. That's called in Hebrew "Almah". An "Almah" can be married and have babies. She ceases being an "Almah" when she can conceive no more. The Physical virgin is called "Betulah". That was not the case with Mary.

The virgin according to Isa. 7:14 is a reference to Israel which is confirmed by Amos 5:2 and the child called Immanuel was Judah if you read Isa. 7:14, 15, 22 and 8:8.

...But you said Paul fabricated Jesus not having a biological father.

Read Matthew and Luke. You will be able to read there too how Jesus does not have an earthly biological father.

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 06:49 PM
Paul found a theology that helped him understand Jesus' mission.

The illiterate fishermen who followed Jesus around were not theologians. They did not use concepts like "died for our sins" or saw Jesus as divine. That interpretation came later.

The Jews knew what a sacrificial lamb was for.

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 06:54 PM
Wait a minute. You are offering a subjective interpretation.

I try not to put myself above anyone. I am honest and admit that I do not know if I am right or not. I just study the Bible and then try to learn what a particular verse meant to its original author.

Only then can I apply it to the world today.

Some call Paul's letters a "gospel." I was trying to be fair and understandable to the fellow believes who call his preaching a "gospel."

They deserve respect and positive regard the same as anyone else.

There are not five gospels, as you said.

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 06:59 PM
Only by believing a gospel is a person saved. And believing that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, saves:

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

We can also see that those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God are born of God.

Are you willing to argue that this "good news" which saves is not a gospel?

There is only one gospel, and the gospel is believe on Jesus Christ to be saved.

Jerry Shugart
May 26th, 2015, 08:32 PM
There is only one gospel, and the gospel is believe on Jesus Christ to be saved.

All you did was evade my question.

Here it is again:


Are you willing to argue that this "good news" which saves is not a gospel?


"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 08:48 PM
All you did was evade my question.

Here it is again:


Are you willing to argue that this "good news" which saves is not a gospel?


"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

There is only one gospel.

How do you get that that scripture is another gospel?

Danoh
May 26th, 2015, 09:53 PM
Are you admitting that unlike Paul, Dispies are beating the air?:eek:

Lol

heir
May 26th, 2015, 09:59 PM
In a previous thread started by heir, heir closed the thread because she knows that 2 Peter 3 completely destroys her "two gospel" theory.I closed the thread to stop snakes like you from derailing/hijacking a good thread.

Anyone who can count and who does not have an agenda can see two gospels in this one verse which supports more than one gospel in the Bible.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

heir
May 26th, 2015, 10:01 PM
Romans 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

Romans 15:21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

yep

heir
May 26th, 2015, 10:02 PM
1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.yep again!

God's Truth
May 26th, 2015, 10:06 PM
yep again!

Those scripture confirm each other.

heir
May 26th, 2015, 10:08 PM
Those scripture confirm each other.They all preached resurrection, is the point!

1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

Jerry Shugart
May 26th, 2015, 11:00 PM
There is only one gospel.

How do you get that that scripture is another gospel?

All you did was evade my question.

Here it is again:


Are you willing to argue that this "good news" which saves is not a gospel?

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

Jerry Shugart
May 26th, 2015, 11:06 PM
The Jews knew what a sacrificial lamb was for.

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Why would John use the present tense (takes away sin) if he was referring to what was going to happen at the Cross.

And if the Jews knew that the Lord Jesus was going to die to take away sins then why did those closest to Him not even know that He was going to die (Lk.18:33-34)?

jamie
May 27th, 2015, 06:04 AM
All you did was evade my question.

Here it is again:


Are you willing to argue that this "good news" which saves is not a gospel?

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).



And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?” (Matthew 8:29 NKJV)

Even demons believe Jesus is the Son of God, but that doesn't save them.

jamie
May 27th, 2015, 06:08 AM
Are you willing to argue that this "good news" which saves is not a gospel?


Prophecy confirms that salvation is an integral aspect of Jesus' gospel of the kingdom of God.

chrysostom
May 27th, 2015, 06:12 AM
[INDENT]Are you willing to argue that this "good news" which saves is not a gospel?

huh?

the gospel is literally
good news
and
the good news is that you can be saved

can be saved
if
you play your cards right

before Jesus suffered and died

you could not be saved

period

SaulToPaul
May 27th, 2015, 06:38 AM
can be saved
if
you play your cards right



That's why I've just ordered my brown scapular.

chrysostom
May 27th, 2015, 06:41 AM
That's why I've just ordered my brown scapular.

so you are not sure
that
you are saved?

SaulToPaul
May 27th, 2015, 06:44 AM
so you are not sure
that
you are saved?

I am, but the scapular seems like a nice insurance policy.

Jerry Shugart
May 27th, 2015, 07:25 AM
And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?” (Matthew 8:29 NKJV)

Even demons believe Jesus is the Son of God, but that doesn't save them.

Yes, but the gospel is for people. Do you believe that a person receives life and therefore saved when he believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?:


"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

Zeke
May 27th, 2015, 07:40 AM
1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

The term being raised from the dead being the new birth from above Galatians 4:26, Plus the literal take on the graves being opened in Matthew 27:51-53 is suspect seeing the timing is before Christ is said to have resurrected on the third day (yet most versions try and make it happen then, in Verse 53) so this would have to be spiritual and related to the conversation with Nick John 3:6, John 3:3, goes with Luke 17:20-21 and the way it is done in through the third eye or peniel gland Gen 32:30.

Galatians 4:24, = 2Cor 3:6, etc....................

jamie
May 27th, 2015, 07:53 AM
Yes, but the gospel is for people. Do you believe that a person receives life and therefore saved when he believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?:

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31)


Belief opens the door to God's kingdom.


Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1:14-15 NKJV)

Jesus' gospel of the kingdom is the gospel of grace by which a person enters God's family.

heir
May 27th, 2015, 08:08 AM
Yes, but the gospel is for people. Do you believe that a person receives life and therefore saved when he believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?It wasn't enough to save the Romans who already had a faith (Romans 1:1-4 KJV, Romans 1:8 KJV).

heir
May 27th, 2015, 08:12 AM
I am, but the scapular seems like a nice insurance policy.
I'll stick with being sealed as my guarantee! :D

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

heir
May 27th, 2015, 08:16 AM
Jesus' gospel of the kingdom is the gospel of grace by which a person enters God's family.I hope that you will search this out, but the gospel of the kingdom did NOT include that "Christ died for our sins" which is paramount to your salvation as the gospel of Christ/ the why of the cross is the power of God to save you!

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.


1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 08:17 AM
They all preached resurrection, is the point!

1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

1 Corinthians 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

Jesus preached resurrection too while he was on earth.


It is all the one and only gospel, and that is believe and obey God.

Even the thief on the cross new JESUS WAS GOING TO LIVE ON AFTER JESUS' DEATH ON THE CROSS!

Luke 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 08:20 AM
All you did was evade my question.

Here it is again:


Are you willing to argue that this "good news" which saves is not a gospel?

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

I did no such thing.

That is the good news, as it is about believing on Jesus to be saved!

How many times do you have to have it said to you?

jamie
May 27th, 2015, 08:22 AM
I hope that you will search this out, but the gospel of the kingdom did NOT include that "Christ died for our sins" which is paramount to your salvation as the gospel of Christ/ the why of the cross is the power of God to save you!


Of course Jesus' gospel is based on salvation which is why Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom.

Jesus said those who are born of the flesh are sarx (flesh) and those who are born of the Spirit are pneuma (spirit)

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 08:25 AM
Why would John use the present tense (takes away sin) if he was referring to what was going to happen at the Cross.

Jesus forgave sins even when he walked the earth as a Man.

Luke 7:49 The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"


And if the Jews knew that the Lord Jesus was going to die to take away sins then why did those closest to Him not even know that He was going to die (Lk.18:33-34)?

Just because people had to be taught does not mean there is a different gospel.

The woman at the well and the people of her town knew Jesus is the Savior of the world.

John the baptizer proclaimed that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

The Jews knew what a sacrificial lamb was for.

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 08:27 AM
huh?

the gospel is literally
good news
and
the good news is that you can be saved

can be saved
if
you play your cards right

before Jesus suffered and died

you could not be saved

period

People could be saved before Jesus suffered and died.

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 08:28 AM
so you are not sure
that
you are saved?

If you do not know if you are saved, then you probably are not saved.

Sad thing about the Catholics never really knowing God.

I wish I could have known what I do now and at least would have tried to help my parents while they were still alive.

john w
May 27th, 2015, 10:36 AM
If you do not know if you are saved, then you probably are not saved.

Sad thing about the Catholics never really knowing God.

I wish I could have known what I do now and at least would have tried to help my parents while they were still alive.

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108741&page=103


Post #1539

“I stopped sinning. I have no sins”-“god”’suntruth

heir
May 27th, 2015, 11:06 AM
Of course Jesus' gospel is based on salvation which is why Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom.

Jesus said those who are born of the flesh are sarx (flesh) and those who are born of the Spirit are pneuma (spirit)

Paul NEVER preached the gospel of the kingdom! He could not have even been forgiven under it!

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


It's one of the reasons we know that the Lord was going to do something different and showed it by the saving of Paul (then Saul).


1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Jerry Shugart
May 27th, 2015, 12:23 PM
Paul NEVER preached the gospel of the kingdom!

What did Paul mean when he said the following?:


"And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more" (Acts 20:25).

To whom did he preach that message?

Jerry Shugart
May 27th, 2015, 12:32 PM
That is the good news, as it is about believing on Jesus to be saved!

Believing what about the Lord Jesus to be saved?

Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?:


"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 12:34 PM
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108741&page=103


Post #1539

“I stopped sinning. I have no sins”-“god”’suntruth


Jesus---

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.


Paul---

Romans 2:6
God "will repay each person according to what they have done."

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 12:36 PM
Believing what about the Lord Jesus to be saved?

Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?:


"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

Believe that you can come to Jesus to have forgiveness of sins.

Danoh
May 27th, 2015, 01:15 PM
Belief opens the door to God's kingdom.


Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God and saying, “The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.” (Mark 1:14-15 NKJV)

Jesus' gospel of the kingdom is the gospel of grace by which a person enters God's family.

That passage is in Mark 1 - some three and a half years or so before He was crucified.

Say you're a 1st Century Jew. All your life you've heard the Law and the Prophets assert that one day the God of your fathers will send a Messiah to deliver your people from their enemies and restore your kingdom under David back to you.

He shows up in your lifetime - three and a half years from His death and resurrection - something you know nothing about as you left your time machine at home.

Anyway, He shows up announcing "The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.”

Do you react with, "oh cool, Jesus died for my sins, oh, okay, I believe the gospel that Jesus died for my sins; halleluiah, praise the Lord, oh how I love Jesus and the Bible!"

Or, do you "repent" - change your mind about the God of your fathers they long ago turned their backs on - turn back to Him and "believe the gospel" - being announced by this Jesus - the good news - that "the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Problem is, you're not a 1st Century Jew - you're a Modern Day Believer whose head has been filled with the ideas of men.

You read - Luke 16:

16. The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

But this time you scratch your head and actually ask - 'Bible - what do you mean by "were until John?'

"Glad ya asked, son - actually another passages tells ya.'

Matthew 11:

12. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
13. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Here, see if this helps - no need to read into things...

John 1:

43. The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
44. Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.
45. Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46. And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47. Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48. Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Fact is, there is more than one gospel, or good news "in the Bible."

Luke 24:

21. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
22. Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
23. And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
24. And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
25. Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27. And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Acts 1:

6. When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7. And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost
part of the earth.

Obviously, something took place between Mark 1:15 and Acts 1:7, and again, at Acts 7:51 in light of Matthew 12:30-32.

And you can ask what the heck I am talking about, or you can read those passages and end up at Romans 11:25-29 on your own - just you and the Book.

That your questions then be much more informed ones.

heir
May 27th, 2015, 02:25 PM
What did Paul mean when he said the following?:


"And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more" (Acts 20:25).It's not the "gospel of the kingdom". People around here, sure have problems with the meaning of terms.

SaulToPaul
May 27th, 2015, 02:28 PM
It's not the "gospel of the kingdom". People around here, sure have problems with the meaning of terms.

Yes, some tend to forget (or ignore) that the Body of Christ is 1/3 of the Kingdom of God.

heir
May 27th, 2015, 02:31 PM
fun facts for ya




Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, It is referred to as the faith which Saul once destroyed.

Galatians 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

As in:

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Matthew 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Matthew 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

That truth is part of the gospel of God:

Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

Romans 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

heir
May 27th, 2015, 02:32 PM
Yes, some tend to forget (or ignore) that the Body of Christ is 1/3 of the Kingdom of God.:up:

Jerry Shugart
May 27th, 2015, 02:33 PM
God's Truth,

Earlier I asked you the following question:


Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?:

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

And here is your answer:


Believe that you can come to Jesus to have forgiveness of sins.

As usual you evaded my question.

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 02:39 PM
God's Truth,

Earlier I asked you the following question:


Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?:

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

And here is your answer:



As usual you evaded my question.

I have not evaded anything but evil.

Jerry Shugart
May 27th, 2015, 03:05 PM
It's not the "gospel of the kingdom". People around here, sure have problems with the meaning of terms.

What was Saul preaching in Jerusalem when he was with the other Apostles?:


"And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him" (Acts 9:26-29).

Remember, the other Apostles were not aware of the gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles at that time. They did not learn about that gospel until later at the First Jerusalem Council (Acts 15).

So what gospel was being preached at Acts 9:29?

Jerry Shugart
May 27th, 2015, 03:07 PM
I have not evaded anything but evil.

You did not answer my question so it is obvious to anyone who will use their brain that you did evade it:

Earlier I asked you the following question:


Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?:

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

And here is your answer:


Believe that you can come to Jesus to have forgiveness of sins.

You are delusional if you think that you answered my question.

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 03:51 PM
You did not answer my question so it is obvious to anyone who will use their brain that you did evade it:

Earlier I asked you the following question:


Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?:

"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn.20:31).

And here is your answer:



You are delusional if you think that you answered my question.

I answered your question. Some people just cannot see.

jamie
May 27th, 2015, 03:52 PM
Paul NEVER preached the gospel of the kingdom!


Are you sure?

It is written, "And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith and saying, 'We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.'"

Isn't it obvious that Paul preached the kingdom of God to the congregations in Gentile communities?

But what about Jews?


So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening.
(Acts 28:23 NKJV)

Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house and received all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him. (Acts 28:30-31 NKJV)

If you are forbidding Paul to preach the kingdom of God to Jews and Gentiles you're too late. It's already done.

Jerry Shugart
May 27th, 2015, 05:30 PM
I answered your question. Some people just cannot see.

You are delusional. Here is my question again:


Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?

Here is the only thing which you said and that does not answer my question:


Believe that you can come to Jesus to have forgiveness of sins.

That does not answer my question.

God's Truth
May 27th, 2015, 08:33 PM
You are delusional. Here is my question again:
You should be more careful how you judge.




Is the "good news" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, not a gospel, especially since it brings life to those who believe?

Here is the only thing which you said and that does not answer my question:



That does not answer my question.

I did answer you. You just did not like the answer.

Jesus is the good news. Believe in Jesus.

Danoh
May 27th, 2015, 09:07 PM
What was Saul preaching in Jerusalem when he was with the other Apostles?:


"And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him" (Acts 9:26-29).

Remember, the other Apostles were not aware of the gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles at that time. They did not learn about that gospel until later at the First Jerusalem Council (Acts 15).

So what gospel was being preached at Acts 9:29?

Being that Paul just returned from Arabia together with the witness of his writings to these various people; often as a reminder to them of what he had shared with them; I'd say he preached the Jesus Christ of Romans 1-16 and Ephesians 1-6.

Zeke
May 27th, 2015, 10:26 PM
Paul NEVER preached the gospel of the kingdom! He could not have even been forgiven under it!

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.


It's one of the reasons we know that the Lord was going to do something different and showed it by the saving of Paul (then Saul).


1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

You don't even grasped what and where the Kingdom is! Luke 17:20-21 matches the Human body being the temple of the Spirit (Jesus Motif) which Paul certainly stated was the case, the exoteric veil of the literal interpretation kills the spiritual allegory that Paul also remarked about 2Cor 3:6 and Galatians 4:24-26.

Grosnick Marowbe
May 28th, 2015, 01:36 AM
You don't even grasped what and where the Kingdom is! Luke 17:20-21 matches the Human body being the temple of the Spirit (Jesus Motif) which Paul certainly stated was the case, the exoteric veil of the literal interpretation kills the spiritual allegory that Paul also remarked about 2Cor 3:6 and Galatians 4:24-26.

Your head isn't twisted on tight enough! I believe you're
continually losing "Grey Matter."

Puppet
May 28th, 2015, 07:22 AM
According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.



Really? Heir would scoop that low to say that, being suckered by false arminians with thier lying theologies? The writings of Peter and Paul that is included in the 66 book Bible was inspired by God. Writings not included in that bible isn't inspired by God like the roman catholic denomination claims. How does the two inspired writings by the same God become two different gospels? Then Heir denied the inspired Word of God. Not surprised at all coming from false arminianism. It is thier nature to naturally insult the elect's Lord and take over the universe with thier misunderstood free wills.

Jerry Shugart
May 28th, 2015, 08:08 AM
Being that Paul just returned from Arabia together with the witness of his writings to these various people; often as a reminder to them of what he had shared with them; I'd say he preached the Jesus Christ of Romans 1-16 and Ephesians 1-6.

No, Paul had not yet gone to Arabia at that time.


"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17; NIV).

After Paul's encounter with the Lord on the Damascus road he went immediately to Damascus and not Arabia. And the verses which I quoted are a narrative of the events since he arrived in Damascus and do not show any trip to Arabia. That trip had to come later.

Danoh
May 28th, 2015, 10:23 AM
You don't even grasped what and where the Kingdom is! Luke 17:20-21 matches the Human body being the temple of the Spirit (Jesus Motif) which Paul certainly stated was the case, the exoteric veil of the literal interpretation kills the spiritual allegory that Paul also remarked about 2Cor 3:6 and Galatians 4:24-26.

You are dead wrong.

Early Acts relates that those Acts 2 Believers; empowered, and guided by the Holy Spirit as they as to their every thought and action, continued to worship and teach in the Temple at Jerusalem - "temples" in "the Temple."

Acts 2:

45. And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47. Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 3:

1. Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2. And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3. Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.

That's "two witnesses" of others just like it.

Danoh
May 28th, 2015, 11:25 AM
No, Paul had not yet gone to Arabia at that time.


"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17; NIV).

After Paul's encounter with the Lord on the Damascus road he went immediately to Damascus and not Arabia. And the verses which I quoted are a narrative of the events since he arrived in Damascus and do not show any trip to Arabia. That trip had to come later.

It appears to read as follows...

Acts 9:

8. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

19. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Then you have the Galatians account - Galatians 1:

15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Verse 16 relates what Ananias was told by the Lord to relate to Paul, as Ananias was being used of the Lord as a witness before Israel and the Believing remnant not only of Paul's conversion, but of his having been sent to the Gentiles before Israel's due time conversion.

Acts 22:

10. And I said, What shall I do, LORD? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11. And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12. And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13. Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14. And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15. For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

The details of verse 15, as to what Ananias related to Paul from the Lord?

Acts 9:

13. Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
14. And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
15. But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16. For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Why Ananias?

Because he, being "a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there," 22:12, was a perfect witness as a bridge of the change now afoot.

A change that would be suspect, as Acts records it was for a time. The means around this being a witness well known for being devout according to the law - Isaiah 8:

18. Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
19. And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Later, Barnabas would also be a witness of good report among all the Jews, whom the Lord would use as a witness of Paul's validity, Acts 4:36, 37; 9:26, 27.

In fact, whenever I deal with Messianics who assert Isaiah 8:20against Paul, the above are some of the examples I make use of.

But anyway, we have this, that appears to read as follows...

Acts 9:

8. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

19. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Then you have the Galatians account - Galatians 1:

15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Together, in light of the above, they read as follows:

Acts 9:19

A. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Paul has just found out the following from Ananias - Galatians 1:

15. ...pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

It is then - after his return from Arabia - that Acts 9:19 B comes in - "Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

In short, he goes into Damascus in a state of shock for he has met face to face with the God of his fathers, in the person of God the Son: Jesus of Nazareth.

Remember the shock of 911 on the world?

Well, here was Paul's - Acts 9:11

And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

Shock being that sate where a total re-orientation often begins.

In Damascus, now all ears - literally! - he is informed by Ananias ...The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. Acts 22:14.

The details of which are... Acts 9:15's..."he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
16. For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Which Paul summarizes in Galatians 1 as:

15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

And Acts relates - Acts 9: 19B...Then was Saul certain days with the
disciples which were at Damascus.
20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

In short, in Arabia, he learns directly from the God of his fathers, just as Moses had centuries before him.

What does he learn?

Galatians 4:

25. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

2 Corinthians 3:

14. ...their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15. ...even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Thus, he is preaching to the Jew first that Jesus is the Son of Christ, knowing full well that Jerusalem has been concluded in bondage with her children.

The intent of this "to the Jew first" being two-fold - that he "might save some" even as Israel is "diminishing away" to its status before God now as just another heathen nation, but also, as a continuing witness against their own, witness against themselves in their continuing resistance of the Holy Spirit speaking to them now, through Paul, Acts 13; Romans 9-11.

As he later reminded the Thessalonians of Acts 17 - to whom he had also preached that "Jesus is very Christ..."

1 Thessalonians 2:

13. For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of
God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
14. For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15. Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16. Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

That's what; the first or second epistle he wrote not to long after his having first met them Mid-Acts.

Read both 1 and 2 Thessalonians - see all that Paul is merely reminding them of as to what he had preached and taught unto them - Romans / Ephesians truth through and through.

patrick jane
May 28th, 2015, 12:18 PM
In a previous thread started by heir, heir closed the thread because she knows that 2 Peter 3 completely destroys her "two gospel" theory.

Here is the post that upset heir so much, that she closed the thread:


Paul said the following to the Galatians:

(Gal 1:8 KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Peter also wrote an epistle to the Galatians:

(1 Peter 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

But, Paul tells the Galatians if anyone preaches a different gospel he preached to them, that they are to be accursed.

So, pretend your a Galatian in Galatia circa 55AD. A letter comes to your city from the Apostle Paul, and the letter says that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed. Then a letter comes to your city from Peter (that heir claims is a different gospel).

If what heir claims is true, then Peter, and anyone who preached what Peter sent to the Galatians would be accursed if it was really a different gospel (heir's claim)

So, it's impossible that Peter and Paul preached different gospels to the Galatians. Yet, that is what heir claims.

heir likes to quote 1 Cor 15:1-4, but she apparently doesn't read past verse 4

(1 Cor 15:11 KJV) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.


Galatians was written in AD 49. - 1 Peter was written in AD 62-64, possibly from Rome. see, 14 years later Paul saw Peter again -

let's go back first - Galatians 1:6 KJV - Galatians 1:12 KJV -

Galatians 1:15 KJV - But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by His Grace,

Galatians 1:16 KJV -

Galatians 1:17 KJV -

Galatians 1:18 KJV - Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

not a very long stay with Peter AFTER Paul's revelations. perhaps Peter didn't quite understand, - 2Peter 3:16 KJV - because 14 years later,, maybe just AFTER Peter sent his letter; perhaps before -

Paul rebuked Peter because Peter was wrong. End of thread

and this is what Paul had to say to Peter 14 years after staying with him


Galatians 2:1 KJV -

Galatians 2:2 KJV - Galatians 2:4 KJV -

Galatians 2:7 KJV -

Galatians 2:8 KJV - Galatians 2:9 KJV

Acts 22:18 KJV - Acts 22:21 KJV - Acts 26:17 KJV -

Jerry Shugart
May 28th, 2015, 01:25 PM
Then you have the Galatians account - Galatians 1:

15. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Verse 16 relates what Ananias was told by the Lord to relate to Paul, as Ananias was being used of the Lord as a witness before Israel and the Believing remnant not only of Paul's conversion, but of his having been sent to the Gentiles before Israel's due time conversion.

You overlook the fact that the Lord told Paul directly that He would be going to the Gentiles (Acts 26:17).


Paul has just found out the following from Ananias - Galatians 1:

15. ...pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16. To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Again, Paul had learned directly from the Lord that he would be sent to the Gentiles.


It is then - after his return from Arabia - that Acts 9:19 B comes in - "Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Look at the narrative beginning at Acts 9:6 through 9:29 and there is no place for a trip to Arabia.

The event which Paul describes at Galatians 1:15-17 had to happen later, perhaps after Acts 12:25.

Grosnick Marowbe
May 28th, 2015, 03:12 PM
Really? Heir would scoop that low to say that, being suckered by false arminians with thier lying theologies? The writings of Peter and Paul that is included in the 66 book Bible was inspired by God. Writings not included in that bible isn't inspired by God like the roman catholic denomination claims. How does the two inspired writings by the same God become two different gospels? Then Heir denied the inspired Word of God. Not surprised at all coming from false arminianism. It is thier nature to naturally insult the elect's Lord and take over the universe with thier misunderstood free wills.

You're ONE of those; "Nutty Calvinists!" There's a big difference
between you and the SANE Calvinists on TOL. You're more of a
"B57" type!!

Grosnick Marowbe
May 28th, 2015, 03:14 PM
Are you sure?

It is written, "And when they had preached the gospel to that city and made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith and saying, 'We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.'"

Isn't it obvious that Paul preached the kingdom of God to the congregations in Gentile communities?

But what about Jews?


So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening.
(Acts 28:23 NKJV)

Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house and received all who came to him, preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him. (Acts 28:30-31 NKJV)

If you are forbidding Paul to preach the kingdom of God to Jews and Gentiles you're too late. It's already done.

Another "OTHER" speaks!!

Grosnick Marowbe
May 28th, 2015, 03:17 PM
AMR and Lon are, SANE Calvinists. They have my respect. They're "good guys!"
Calvinists like Puppet, B57 and Nang are the "bad guys!"

rainee
May 28th, 2015, 03:18 PM
Oh please quit picking on Nang, dang

jamie
May 28th, 2015, 04:06 PM
Another "OTHER" speaks!!


Good point. Jesus was neither Catholic or Protestant and I like him am other than those two.

1Mind1Spirit
May 28th, 2015, 04:09 PM
Look at the narrative beginning at Acts 9:6 through 9:29 and there is no place for a trip to Arabia.

The event which Paul describes at Galatians 1:15-17 had to happen later, perhaps after Acts 12:25.

I reckon Paul knew when he went.

He said it was before his first trip to Jerusalem.

Like it or lump it.:eek:

Understanding this makes all the dating you mainstreamers gulp down totally bogus.

Puppet
May 28th, 2015, 04:10 PM
You're ONE of those; "Nutty Calvinists!" There's a big difference
between you and the SANE Calvinists on TOL. You're more of a
"B57" type!!






:carryon:

Grosnick Marowbe
May 28th, 2015, 04:14 PM
:carryon:

Just so you got the message!

Grosnick Marowbe
May 28th, 2015, 04:15 PM
Good point. Jesus was neither Catholic or Protestant and I like him am other than those two.

And, "other" than the truth, as well!!

Grosnick Marowbe
May 28th, 2015, 04:24 PM
TeT, I have you on 'permanent ignore' however, I know that you couldn't
possibly have gotten anything right so, "Where's your proof?"

Puppet
May 28th, 2015, 04:49 PM
Just so you got the message!


:carryon:

Jerry Shugart
May 28th, 2015, 05:43 PM
I reckon Paul knew when he went.

He said it was before his first trip to Jerusalem.

Like it or lump it.

Paul said the following:


"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17; NIV).

After his encounter with the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road Paul went immediately to Damascus, not to Arabia.

Therefore, at Galatians 1:15-17 Paul must have been speaking of another encounter with the Lord Jesus that happened later.

1Mind1Spirit
May 29th, 2015, 11:30 AM
Paul said the following:


"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17; NIV).

After his encounter with the Lord Jesus on the Damascus road Paul went immediately to Damascus, not to Arabia.

Therefore, at Galatians 1:15-17 Paul must have been speaking of another encounter with the Lord Jesus that happened later.

When he says he later returned to Damascus, that means he had IMMEDIATELY departed from Damascus into Arabia.

No side trip to Jerusalem.

Jerry Shugart
May 29th, 2015, 11:43 AM
When he says he later returned to Damascus, that means he had IMMEDIATELY departed from Damascus into Arabia.

No side trip to Jerusalem.

When do you say that Paul immediately went to Arabia:


"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17; NIV).

Ben Masada
May 29th, 2015, 12:23 PM
When he says he later returned to Damascus, that means he had IMMEDIATELY departed from Damascus into Arabia.

No side trip to Jerusalem.

Yes but, after 3 years Paul went up to Jerusalem. (Gal. 1:18)

Jerry Shugart
May 29th, 2015, 12:36 PM
Yes but, after 3 years Paul went up to Jerusalem. (Gal. 1:18)

Why do you claim to be an expert on the NT and then deny the teaching found there?

You are the most mixed-up person I have seen on this forum.

1Mind1Spirit
May 29th, 2015, 02:09 PM
When do you say that Paul immediately went to Arabia:


"But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus" (Gal.1:15-17; NIV).

Right after he regained his sight.

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.


Luke does not mention the trip into Arabia by Paul.

He may not have even known about it.

1Mind1Spirit
May 29th, 2015, 02:25 PM
Yes but, after 3 years Paul went up to Jerusalem. (Gal. 1:18)

Sure did.

For the first time after seeing Jesus.

The only thing unclear is, did Paul mean he was in Damascus preaching for 3 years before being lowered over the wall, or does that 3 years include his trip into Arabia.

We know he went to Arabia then RETURNED to Damascus.

patrick jane
May 29th, 2015, 02:39 PM
When he says he later returned to Damascus, that means he had IMMEDIATELY departed from Damascus into Arabia.

No side trip to Jerusalem.

yes -

Ben Masada
May 29th, 2015, 02:48 PM
Why do you claim to be an expert on the NT and then deny the teaching found there?

You are the most mixed-up person I have seen on this forum.

That's the reason why I cannot adopt the NT; because I have read it more than several times and I find no truth in the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Jews who go for it lack the knowledge of both, the Tanach and the NT.

Ben Masada
May 29th, 2015, 02:58 PM
Sure did.

For the first time after seeing Jesus.

The only thing unclear is, did Paul mean he was in Damascus preaching for 3 years before being lowered over the wall, or does that 3 years include his trip into Arabia.

We know he went to Arabia then RETURNED to Damascus.

Paul never saw Jesus. He was still a teenager watching the robes of those executing Stephen which was about 10 years after Jesus had been gone. (Acts 7:58)

Yes, Paul meant he was in Damascus. Damascus and Arabia, but especially in Damascus because of the larger number of Jewish synagogues. That's why he had gone to Damascus for. (Acts 9:1,2; Gal. 1:17)

Jerry Shugart
May 29th, 2015, 03:10 PM
That's the reason why I cannot adopt the NT; because I have read it more than several times and I find no truth in the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Jews who go for it lack the knowledge of both, the Tanach and the NT.

How can you expect to find truth since you cannot even understand what you are reading? And I have proven to you more than once that Paul did not teach replacement theology.

You cannot understand the most simple things because your spiritual IQ is ZERO.

Ben Masada
May 29th, 2015, 03:12 PM
How can you expect to find truth since you cannot even understand what you are reading? And I have proven to you more than once that Paul did not teach replacement theology.

You cannot understand the most simple things because your spiritual IQ is ZERO.

That's exactly what I thought about you. Either that or you have never read the whole of the NT.

Jerry Shugart
May 29th, 2015, 03:14 PM
Right after he regained his sight.

No, right after he received his sight he was with the disciples which were in Damascus. Then he preached Christ in the synagogues.

Jerry Shugart
May 29th, 2015, 03:18 PM
That's exactly what I thought about you. Either that or you have never read the whole of the NT.

You might have read the NT but it is obvious that you could not understand it.


The term "Christian" comes from the gospel of Paul who used to teach that Jesus was Christ. (Acts 11:26)

The term Christian is found only in the book of Acts and in Peter's first epistle.

Sooner or later you are bound to get something right about the NT.

patrick jane
May 29th, 2015, 03:25 PM
That's the reason why I cannot adopt the NT; because I have read it more than several times and I find no truth in the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology. Jews who go for it llack the knowledge of both, the Tanach and the NT.

i see - you might be right about the knowledge or lack thereof -

Romans 10:1 KJV -

Romans 10:2 KJV - For I bear them record that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

Romans 10:3 KJV -

Romans 10:4 KJV -

Romans 10:5 KJV - Romans 10:6-7 KJV - Romans 10:8-9 KJV -

Romans 10:10 KJV - Romans 10:11 KJV

Romans 10:12 KJV - For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him.

john w
May 29th, 2015, 03:29 PM
Why do you claim to be an expert on the NT and then deny the teaching found there?

You are the most mixed-up person I have seen on this forum.

Second most mixed-up person-you forgot about me.

Zeke
May 29th, 2015, 03:40 PM
When he says he later returned to Damascus, that means he had IMMEDIATELY departed from Damascus into Arabia.

No side trip to Jerusalem.

Wayne Lamar Harrington exposed the Acts letter for the fraud that it is, Its a sucker punch to the dispensation folks who base their dogma on that letter, when the only divide in the scripture is 2Cor 3:6, literal vs symbols/allegory Galatians 4:24.

Jerry Shugart
May 29th, 2015, 06:01 PM
Second most mixed-up person-you forgot about me.

No, but I do try to forget about you. Great potential but because of your laziness you let others do the thinking for you.

Such a shame!

1Mind1Spirit
May 29th, 2015, 06:28 PM
No, right after he received his sight he was with the disciples which were in Damascus. Then he preached Christ in the synagogues.

Did Luke say immediately or did you just assume that?

Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

Jerry Shugart
May 29th, 2015, 07:42 PM
Did Luke say immediately or did you just assume that?

Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

The use of the word "then" indicates that after receiving his sight Paul then was with the disciples in Damascus:


"And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus" (Acts 9:19).

If there was a trip to Arabia between the events of the first sentence and the events of the second sentence then I cannot imagine why the word "then" would be used.

patrick jane
May 29th, 2015, 07:50 PM
the Bibles says Paul did not confer with anyone -

Galatians 1:11-13 KJV -

Galatians 1:14-15 KJV -

Galatians 1:16 KJV - Galatians 1:17-18 KJV - Galatians 1:19-20

Galatians 1:21-22 KJV -

Galatians 1:23-24 KJV -

Galatians 2:1 KJV -

Galatians 2:2 KJV - Galatians 2:11 KJV -

Galatians 2:21 KJV -

1Mind1Spirit
May 29th, 2015, 09:13 PM
The use of the word "then" indicates that after receiving his sight Paul then was with the disciples in Damascus:


"And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus" (Acts 9:19).

If there was a trip to Arabia between the events of the first sentence and the events of the second sentence then I cannot imagine why the word "then" would be used.

You callin' Paul a liar?

Galatians 1:19-20

Danoh
May 30th, 2015, 12:25 AM
The use of the word "then" indicates that after receiving his sight Paul then was with the disciples in Damascus:


"And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus" (Acts 9:19).

If there was a trip to Arabia between the events of the first sentence and the events of the second sentence then I cannot imagine why the word "then" would be used.

Because "then" is being used in the same sense as to order in time as you have just used it - "if there was a trip to Arabia between the events of the first sentence and the events of the second sentence then I cannot imagine why the word 'then' would be used."

Acts 9:
19. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Reading that, as is, some could understand it to mean that Luke is continuing the sense of 19a's thought - "And when he received meat and was strengthened" as being the same in time as 19b's "Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus."

If such were the case, he would have said "Then he was certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus," not “Then was Saul certain days…"

But he is not talking about the same period of time, rather, about a time that began at some point after… in fact, such is the case as to different periods of time in several places within both Luke’s and Paul’s narrative as to this.

The following is a combining of Acts 9 and Galatians 1 into one commentary. Its words are their own…

"…when he received meat, he was strengthened...went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus... Then was Saul certain days at Damascus... And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God....Then... after many days were fulfilled... after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days… And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.... But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother… But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus….

...Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia; And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. And they glorified God in me.... Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied..."

patrick jane
May 30th, 2015, 01:19 AM
You callin' Paul a liar?

Galatians 1:19-20


whom ?! ?? - they better not ! -

19815


Peter was confused for a bit ? he admits it. written in about AD 67, 3 years after 1 Peter, perhaps by then, he was understanding Paul ? - 2 Peter 3:15 KJV -

2 Peter 3:16 KJV -

2 Peter 3:16 -

2 Peter 3:16 NiV -

but back to the point of the thread - 2 different gospels -

Galatians 2:7 KJV -

Galatians 2:8 KJV -

Galatians 2:9 KJV -

Galatians 2:10 KJV -

Galatians 2:11 KJV -

Galatians 2:12 KJV - Galatians 2:20 KJV -

Ephesians 3:2 KJV -

Colossians 1:25 KJV - Colossians 1:26 KJV -

2 Corinthians 4:2 KJV -


2 Corinthians 4:3 KJV -

2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV -

2 Corinthians 6:21 KJV -

Ephesians 1:13 KJV -

Danoh
May 30th, 2015, 02:37 AM
What's up "homeless," hope all's good with you too, PJ :)

Jerry Shugart
May 30th, 2015, 08:32 AM
Because "then" is being used in the same sense as to order in time as you have just used it - "if there was a trip to Arabia between the events of the first sentence and the events of the second sentence then I cannot imagine why the word 'then' would be used."

Acts 9:
19. And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20. And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Reading that, as is, some could understand it to mean that Luke is continuing the sense of 19a's thought - "And when he received meat and was strengthened" as being the same in time as 19b's "Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus."

If such were the case, he would have said "Then he was certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus," not “Then was Saul certain days…"

But he is not talking about the same period of time, rather, about a time that began at some point after… in fact, such is the case as to different periods of time in several places within both Luke’s and Paul’s narrative as to this.

The following is a combining of Acts 9 and Galatians 1 into one commentary. Its words are their own…

"…when he received meat, he was strengthened...went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus... Then was Saul certain days at Damascus... And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God....Then... after many days were fulfilled... after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days… And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.... But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother… But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem. And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus….

...Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia; And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. And they glorified God in me.... Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied..."

Then why didn't Paul preach to the Gentiles until later at Acts 13?

Jerry Shugart
May 30th, 2015, 08:33 AM
You callin' Paul a liar?

Galatians 1:19-20

No!

DAN P
May 30th, 2015, 11:24 AM
(2 Peter 3:15 KJV) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Peter is telling the Galatians that Paul had previously written to them.

Yet, heir claims that the Galatians Peter is writing to are being preached a different gospel than Paul preached, despite Peter clearly telling the Galatians that Paul has previously written to them.


Hi . and Paul did write to the Galatians as we see the letter .

But where is that so-called letter that Peter wrote to the Body of Christ ?:dizzy::dizzy:

2 Peter 3 is all Jewish and what Peter is fererring to is the Book of Hebrews .

There is NO such letter !!

dan p

tetelestai
June 2nd, 2015, 08:25 AM
Galatians was written in AD 49. - [U][B]1 Peter was written in AD 62-64,

You're making my point.

Paul told the Galatians that if anyone preaches another gospel to them, that person is to be accursed.

According to your dates given, Peter wrote his epistle to the Galatians 13 years after Paul wrote his epistle to the Galatians.

According to MAD, Peter preached a different gospel than Paul.

If MAD is correct, then Peter should have been accursed by the Galatians for preaching a different gospel.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 08:51 AM
Most all of the misunderstanding comes from people not understanding Paul...so much so is this problem that Peter makes scripture speaking about that...2 Peter 3:16.

Paul never ever speaks against obeying Jesus, in any way, or at anytime. Paul speaks about no having to do the ceremonial works anymore---not that we do not have to obey God anymore!

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 08:56 AM
Paul even speaks of HIMSELF...if WE should preach a gospel other than...a different Jesus...


Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!


Jesus preached obedience to him. Paul preached obedience to Jesus. Jesus did not die and then come back to tell Paul we no longer have to obey but only believe.

Obeying God has not become the curse.

Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial works of the law. We no longer have to be circumcised and give animals to sacrifice...but we as always have to obey God.

1Mind1Spirit
June 2nd, 2015, 10:54 AM
Hi . and Paul did write to the Galatians as we see the letter .

But where is that so-called letter that Peter wrote to the Body of Christ ?:dizzy::dizzy:

2 Peter 3 is all Jewish and what Peter is fererring to is the Book of Hebrews .

There is NO such letter !!

dan p

What made you think Peter was talking of only one letter?

Y'all could really use sum readin' lessons.:doh:

2 Peter 3:16 KJV


16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest , as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Jerry Shugart
June 2nd, 2015, 11:13 AM
Paul even speaks of HIMSELF...if WE should preach a gospel other than...a different Jesus...

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

Paul does not say that there is only one gospel. He knew that there were two gospels and he also knew that those preaching the other gospel would not be preaching that gospel to the Gentiles:


"...they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter...when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision" (Gal.2:7,9).

So there is nothing written at Galatians 1:6-8 that proves that only one gospel was preached during the Acts period.

In fact, the good news (gospel) which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And those believing that gospel were saved the moment they believed it (Jn.5:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

The good news or gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles he called "the preaching of the Cross," a gospel which is centered on the fact that He died for our sins. And those believing that gospel were saved the moment when they believed it (1 Cor.15:1-3).

This is so simple and no one has an excuse for not understanding it or believing it.

jamie
June 2nd, 2015, 11:59 AM
Paul does not say that there is only one gospel. He knew that there were two gospels...


We know Paul preached Jesus' gospel of the kingdom of God so what other gospel do you believe Paul preached?

patrick jane
June 2nd, 2015, 12:17 PM
We know Paul preached Jesus' gospel of the kingdom of God so what other gospel do you believe Paul preached?

Galatians 2:7 KJV -

:idea:

Galatians 2:9 KJV -

Galatians 2:11 KJV - Galatians 2:14 KJV -

Jerry Shugart
June 2nd, 2015, 12:57 PM
We know Paul preached Jesus' gospel of the kingdom of God so what other gospel do you believe Paul preached?

The gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24), the truth that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 01:34 PM
The gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24), the truth that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).

It is the same gospel Jesus taught.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 01:40 PM
Paul does not say that there is only one gospel. He knew that there were two gospels and he also knew that those preaching the other gospel would not be preaching that gospel to the Gentiles:


"...they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter...when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision" (Gal.2:7,9).

So there is nothing written at Galatians 1:6-8 that proves that only one gospel was preached during the Acts period.

In fact, the good news (gospel) which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And those believing that gospel were saved the moment they believed it (Jn.5:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

The good news or gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles he called "the preaching of the Cross," a gospel which is centered on the fact that He died for our sins. And those believing that gospel were saved the moment when they believed it (1 Cor.15:1-3).

This is so simple and no one has an excuse for not understanding it or believing it.

It is simple. What don't you get about no other gospel?

You are preaching falseness.

John the baptizer preached the good news; and Jesus Christ himself preached the good news.

The good news is Jesus Christ the promise is here.

The good news is forgiveness through Jesus.

The good news is that Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb of God.

jamie
June 2nd, 2015, 02:33 PM
The gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24), the truth that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).


Paul said, "We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God." (Acts 14:22 NKJV)

Entrance to the kingdom of God has always been by grace. No one has ever bought their way into the kingdom. It's by invitation only.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 02:37 PM
It is the same gospel Jesus taught.

Show us where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, ever preached/taught:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.


1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news

Death
Burial
Resurrection

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 02:43 PM
Show us where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, ever preached/taught:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.


1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news

Death
Burial
Resurrection

Jesus says it was written in the Old Testament about him.

Jesus SAYS THIS IS WHAT I TOLD YOU WHILE I WAS STILL WITHOUT YOU.

Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”


Jesus said THAT IT WAS WRITTEN that the MESSIAH will suffer and rise from the dead and repentance for the forgiveness of sins.


46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 02:45 PM
Jesus says it was written in the Old Testament about him.

Jesus SAYS THIS IS WHAT I TOLD YOU WHILE I WAS STILL WITHOUT YOU.

Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”


Jesus said THAT IT WAS WRITTEN that the MESSIAH will suffer and rise from the dead and repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Show us where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, ever preached/taught:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news



You:

"Luke 24:44"-you


Which word did you not get?:


"prior to the death, burial, resurrection"-saint John W


Luke 24:44 KJV is not prior.

The death, burial, resurrection was hid from the 12, prior to its ocurrence.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 02:48 PM
Show us where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, ever preached/taught:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news



You:

Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 02:55 PM
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Luke 6:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

The sap can't even figger out he is quoting the wrong passage:

"Luke 6:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. "-you

Luke 6:46 KJV does not say what you quoted.

Sober up.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 02:56 PM
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

Luke 6:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Show us where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, ever preached/taught:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news


You cannot-it was hid from the 12.

"It is the same gospel Jesus taught."-you

Neither Christ, or the 12, ever taught prior to its ocurrence:


"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

You made it up.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 02:57 PM
The sap can't even figger out he is quoting the wrong passage:

"Luke 6:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. "-you

Luke 6:46 KJV does not say what you quoted.

Sober up.

It means the same.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 02:58 PM
Show us where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, ever preached/taught:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news


You cannot-it was hid from the 12.

Jesus was teaching the twelve and the lost sheep of Israel.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 03:01 PM
Even the Samaritan woman by the well knew that Jesus is the Savior of the world.

Even the people in the village of the woman at the well knew that Jesus is the Savior of the world.

42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 03:01 PM
Savior of the world.

Did you hear that John W.?

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 03:03 PM
Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


That is what Jesus and his Apostle preached. Read how Paul preached the same thing.


Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds

Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 03:10 PM
It means the same.

Nope. You argued:

"It is the same gospel Jesus taught."-you

If it is, show us where he/the 12 taught, prior to its occurence:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news


You cannot-it was hid from the 12.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 03:10 PM
Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.


That is what Jesus and his Apostle preached. Read how Paul preached the same thing.


Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds

Acts 20:21
I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

If it is, show us where he/the 12 taught, prior to its occurence.............

Sober up. The verses you quoted are after.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 03:13 PM
Jesus is the promise.

Did you hear that?

Jesus is the promise that was to come.

Jesus came.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 03:16 PM
If it is, show us where he/the 12 taught, prior to its occurence.............

Sober up. The verses you quoted are after.

This scripture is where Jesus tells us that while he was still with his disciples, he taught how he was going to die and be raised again.

Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:

Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 03:28 PM
John the baptizer taught the good news, and Jesus taught the good news.

Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,

Mark 1:14
[ Jesus Announces the Good News ] After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God.

Mark 1:15
“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 03:42 PM
The good news of the kingdom of God that is near and will be in them, when the Holy Spirit comes.

Jesus preached the good news:

Luke 16:16
“The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it.

Luke 20:1
[ The Authority of Jesus Questioned ] One day as Jesus was teaching the people in the temple courts and proclaiming the good news, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, together with the elders, came up to him.


Jesus' Twelve Apostles to the Lamb preached the good news:


Acts 5:42
Day after day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they never stopped teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Messiah.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ,they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:35
Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

Acts 11:20
Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.

Acts 13:32
“We tell you the good news: What God promised our ancestors

Paul preached the good news:

Acts 14:15
“Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them.

Acts 17:18
A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.

Acts 20:24
However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the good news of God’s grace.

Romans 10:15
And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Romans 10:16
But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”

Hebrews 4:2
For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed.


There is one gospel, and one good news.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 04:29 PM
This scripture is where Jesus tells us that while he was still with his disciples, he taught how he was going to die and be raised again.

Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you:

Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Nope. Luke 18-they had no idea.

You lied.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 04:31 PM
John the baptizer taught the good news, and Jesus taught the good news.

Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,

Mark 1:14
[ Jesus Announces the Good News ] After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God.

Mark 1:15
“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”


You just lied-again.

Nope. You argued:

"It is the same gospel Jesus taught."-you

If it is, show us where he/the 12 taught, prior to its occurence:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."
Chapter, verse.1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news


You cannot-it was hid from the 12.

Luke 18 KJV
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 04:35 PM
John the baptizer taught the good news, and Jesus taught the good news.

Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,

Mark 1:14
[ Jesus Announces the Good News ] After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God.

Mark 1:15
“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

No mention of the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV-death/burial/resurrection.


You just lied-again.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 04:36 PM
Savior of the world.

Did you hear that John W.?

Nope. You argued:

"It is the same gospel Jesus taught."-you

If it is, show us where he/the 12 taught, prior to its occurence:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news


You cannot-it was hid from the 12.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 04:37 PM
Jesus was teaching the twelve and the lost sheep of Israel.

Show us where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, ever preached/taught:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."Chapter, verse.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news


You cannot-it was hid from the 12.

Jerry Shugart
June 2nd, 2015, 04:38 PM
Paul even speaks of HIMSELF...if WE should preach a gospel other than...a different Jesus...

Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

Paul does not say that there is only one gospel. He knew that there were two gospels and he also knew that those preaching the other gospel would not be preaching that gospel to the Gentiles:


"...they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter...when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision" (Gal.2:7,9).

So there is nothing written at Galatians 1:6-8 that proves that only one gospel was preached during the Acts period.

In fact, the good news (gospel) which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And those believing that gospel were saved the moment they believed it (Jn.5:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

The good news or gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles he called "the preaching of the Cross," a gospel which is centered on the fact that He died for our sins. And those believing that gospel were saved the moment when they believed it (1 Cor.15:1-3).

This is so simple and no one has an excuse for not understanding it or believing it.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 04:40 PM
Nope. Luke 18-they had no idea.

You lied.

The woman at the well and the people in her village knew Jesus was the SAVIOR OF THE WORLD.

John the baptizer proclaimed that Jesus was the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.

Jesus forgave sins and everyone knew that only God could do that.

Jesus is the promise that came.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 04:48 PM
Paul does not say that there is only one gospel. He knew that there were two gospels and he also knew that those preaching the other gospel would not be preaching that gospel to the Gentiles:
Paul preached against another gospel.



"...they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter...when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision" (Gal.2:7,9).

That is about one gospel to two different kinds of people.

They had the same gospel and FELLOWSHIP.


So there is nothing written at Galatians 1:6-8 that proves that only one gospel was preached during the Acts period.

In fact, the good news (gospel) which was preached to the Jews during the Acts period is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And those believing that gospel were saved the moment they believed it (Jn.5:31; 1 Jn.5:1-5).

The good news or gospel which Paul preached to the Gentiles he called "the preaching of the Cross," a gospel which is centered on the fact that He died for our sins. And those believing that gospel were saved the moment when they believed it (1 Cor.15:1-3).

John the baptizer preached that!

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 04:50 PM
Jerry Shugart,

No one is saved just for believing.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 04:52 PM
Jesus forgave sins even before he died.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 04:56 PM
Show us where the Lord Jesus Christ, the 12, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, ever preached/taught:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."Chapter, verse.

1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV gospel/good news


You cannot-it was hid from the 12.

Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”


Jesus said he told them while he was still with them. He said he told them THAT IT WAS WRITTEN that the MESSIAH will suffer and rise from the dead and repentance for the forgiveness of sins.



Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 04:58 PM
Even the Samaritan woman by the well knew that Jesus is the Savior of the world.

Even the people in the village of the woman at the well knew that Jesus is the Savior of the world.

42 They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

Peter attempted to prevent the Masters death-twice. The 12 had no idea the He would die, much less be raised. After the resurrection, they initially did not believe it. And yet you claim that the 12 preached:

"Good news!!!!Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved!!"


You claim Judas preached this.


You lied.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 05:00 PM
Peter attempted to prevent the Masters death-twice. The 12 had no idea the He would die, much less be raised. After the resurrection, they initially did not believe it. And yet you claim that the 12 preached:

"Good news!!!!Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved!!"


You claim Judas preached this.


You lied.


Do you know what a sacrificial lamb is?

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:00 PM
Luke 24:44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”


Jesus said he told them while he was still with them. He said he told them THAT IT WAS WRITTEN that the MESSIAH will suffer and rise from the dead and repentance for the forgiveness of sins.



Luke 24:46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Nope. You argued:

"It is the same gospel Jesus taught."-you

If it is, show us where he/the 12 taught, prior to its occurence:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.

You cannot. It was hid from them.


You lied, when you argued that this should not be part of the bible:


Luke 18 KJV
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:01 PM
Do you know what a sacrificial lamb is?

Peter attempted to prevent the Masters death-twice. The 12 had no idea the He would die, much less be raised. After the resurrection, they initially did not believe it. And yet you claim that the 12 preached:

"Good news!!!!Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved!!"


You claim Judas preached this.


You lied.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 05:02 PM
John W., I have given you the scripture many times now that says JESUS told his Apostles while he was still alive that he would suffer and rise from the dead and repentance for the forgiveness of sins.


Why don't you believe Jesus?

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:04 PM
John W., I have given you the scripture many times now that says JESUS told his Apostles while he was still alive that he would suffer and rise from the dead and repentance for the forgiveness of sins.


Why don't you believe Jesus?

It was hid from them.

You lied, when you argued that this should not be part of the bible:


Luke 18 KJV
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:06 PM
John W., I have given you the scripture many times now that says JESUS told his Apostles while he was still alive that he would suffer and rise from the dead and repentance for the forgiveness of sins.


Why don't you believe Jesus?

No, you gave scripture where the Lord says that his dbr fulfilled scripture-it says NADA that the 12, or anyone else, knew about it. They did not. It was hid from them.

You lied.

You argued:

"It is the same gospel Jesus taught."-you

If it is, show us where he/the 12 taught, prior to its occurence:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.

Gospel/good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV=

Death
Burial
Resurrection

You cannot. It was hid from them.

You would have produced it by now, as I've been asking you for over 6 months.



You lied, when you argued that this should not be part of the bible:


Luke 18 KJV
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 05:07 PM
John W.,

What don't you get that Jesus forgave sin EVEN BEFORE he died?

What don't you get about that?

Jesus is the promised good news.

We have forgiveness through Jesus.

You are badly mistaken.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 05:09 PM
No, you gave scripture where the Lord says that his dbr fulfilled scripture-it says NADA that the 12, or anyone else, knew about it. They did not. It was hid from them.

You lied.

Jesus said he told them while he was still with them.

Cruciform
June 2nd, 2015, 05:10 PM
According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians. But, Paul tells the Galatians if anyone preaches a different gospel HE preached to them, that they are to be accursed.
Actually, Paul uses the word "we"---that is, "we" apostles. Thus, "the Gospel" is exactly the same for all of the apostles---including Peter.

Case closed.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:12 PM
John W.,

What don't you get that Jesus forgave sin EVEN BEFORE he died?

What don't you get about that?

Jesus is the promised good news.

We have forgiveness through Jesus.

You are badly mistaken.

I've reduced the silly goose to rabbit trails, as she won't give the chapter, verse. I stay on topic, which is your "argument:"

"It is the same gospel Jesus taught."-you

If it is, show us where he/the 12 taught, prior to its occurence:

"I/Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved."

Chapter, verse.

Gospel/good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV=

Death
Burial
Resurrection

You cannot. It was hid from them.

You would have produced it by now, as I've been asking you for over 6 months.



You lied, when you argued that this should not be part of the bible:


Luke 18 KJV
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:13 PM
Jesus said he told them while he was still with them.

Nope. You just lied, when you say that this verse should not be in the bible:


Luke 18 KJV
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

patrick jane
June 2nd, 2015, 05:15 PM
John W., I have given you the scripture many times now that says JESUS told his Apostles while he was still alive that he would suffer and rise from the dead and repentance for the forgiveness of sins.


Why don't you believe Jesus?

why don't you GT ?

Luke 18:31 KJV - Luke 18:32 KJV - Luke 18:33 KJV -



Luke 18:34 KJV -

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:22 PM
One more time, PJ, to prevent the Silly Goose from conning the babes/sheep, and then devouring them, like the wolf/witch pulled, in "Hansel & Gretel:"


1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV "gospel"

Death
Burial
Resurrection

Survey the book...

1.The 12 did not know of the impending dbr-it was hid from them, until later in the Lord's ministry-and yet, prior to them knowing, they were preaching "the gospel of the kingdom:"


"For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him." Mark 9:31-32 KJV

"Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken." Luke 18:31-34 KJV

"For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead." John 20:9 KJV


2. Peter tried to prevent the Lord Jesus Christ's death, and His death was a key component of 1 Cor. 15:1-4, by which we are reconciled:

"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee" Mt. 16:21-22 KJV

"And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him." Mark 8:31-32 KJV


3. Even after the Lord's death, burial, and resurrection, the 12 initially did not believe it:

"And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted." Mt. 28:17 KJV

"And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen." Mark 16:11 KJV

"And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest. It was Mary Magdalene and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles. And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not." Luke 24:9-11 KJV

" And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?" Luke 24:41 KJV

Therefore, they were not preaching the dbr, "the gospel" of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, as a basis of justification, at least prior to its occurrence, but they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore, they are not the same "the" gospels, "good news." This "argument" that there is just one "the gospel," just one piece of good news, self-destructs, "commits suicide". There is plenty of "good news"(and bad news) in the book-the context tells us what "good news"/gospel is in view.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 05:27 PM
Nope. You just lied, when you say that this verse should not be in the bible:


Stop lying about what I say.




Luke 18 KJV
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Just because they did not understand yet and it was hid from them does not mean they were taught a different gospel.

The good news and gospel was that Jesus is the Messiah and salvation through the forgiveness of sin.


Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,

Luke 1:77 to give his people the knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,

aikido7
June 2nd, 2015, 05:30 PM
I don't understand. Paul's letters make it absolutely clear that he and the members of the Jerusalem church (Peter, Jesus' brother James and many other original followers) had some serious conflicts over table fellowship practice and admittance of Gentiles into the new faith.

We have to realize Paul's testimony is self-serving. He realizes he is not one of the actual apostles but has to make sure he is included in that number nevertheless. There is a lot of defensiveness in his letters about the dispute with Peter and the other apostles.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 05:32 PM
The gospel John the baptizer proclaimed is that Jesus is the Messiah and gives forgiveness of sins.

When Jesus preached he preached believe and repent, and that there is forgiveness through him.

The Apostles taught that, even the Apostle Paul.

lifeisgood
June 2nd, 2015, 05:36 PM
There is only One True Gospel and there is only One True God.

The ONE gospel is being preached to both Jew (by Peter) and Gentile (by Paul).

The Scripture clearly declares:
ONE holy Lawgiver,
ONE Law,
ONE penalty for its violation,
ONE universal condition of man,
ONE perfect Lawkeeper,
ONE perfect Sacrifice,
and
ONE Mediator, WHO is the ONE Way — Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:39 PM
Stop lying about what I say


Nope. You say that it should not be in the bible-you assert that the 12 knew about the dbr-lie:

Luke 18 KJV
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.






Just because they did not understand yet and it was hid from them does not mean they were taught a different gospel


You're on drugs/wine. You assert that they were preaching the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, which includes the

Death
Burial
Resurrection

...and yet the death, burial, resurrection was hid from them. They were preaching something they knew nothing about, according to your "silly goose-ism."


You just lied-again.

Luke 18 KJV
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.The good news and gospel was that Jesus is the Messiah and salvation through the forgiveness of sin.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 05:42 PM
John W., you prove you cannot defend your doctrines. You do not have truth so your resort to lies about me and insults.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:42 PM
The good news and gospel was that Jesus is the Messiah and salvation through the forgiveness of sin.


Mark 1:1
[ John the Baptist Prepares the Way ] The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God,

Luke 1:77 to give his people the knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,

The good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV is the preaching of the death, burial, resurrection, as it's foundation, a dbr the 12 knew NADA about, while preaching "the gospel of the kingdom"-so much for your "just one piece of good news in the book" lie.

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 05:56 PM
John W., you prove you cannot defend your doctrines. You do not have truth so your resort to lies about me and insults.

The Silly Goose's concession whimper, not producing that chapter/verse, as she spams her "lies....insults" "Hail Mary" on every thread.

Sit down.

glorydaz
June 2nd, 2015, 06:20 PM
I don't understand. Paul's letters make it absolutely clear that he and the members of the Jerusalem church (Peter, Jesus' brother James and many other original followers) had some serious conflicts over table fellowship practice and admittance of Gentiles into the new faith.

We have to realize Paul's testimony is self-serving. He realizes he is not one of the actual apostles but has to make sure he is included in that number nevertheless. There is a lot of defensiveness in his letters about the dispute with Peter and the other apostles.

Great example of sour grapes.

tetelestai
June 2nd, 2015, 06:58 PM
I closed the thread to stop snakes like you from derailing/hijacking a good thread.

No, you closed the thread because you know that 2 Peter 3 destroys your false "two gospel" theory.

(2 Peter 3:15 KJV) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

In your thread, and this thread, you have yet to actually address 2 Peter 3 because you know you can't.

tetelestai
June 2nd, 2015, 07:09 PM
I am a dispensationalist of the Mid Acts variety, and I say that all of those Peter addressed in his epistles were members of the Body of Christ.

That's correct.


However, that does not change the fact that during the Acts period Paul preached two different gospels.

For arguments sake, were both recipients of Paul's alleged two different gospels members of the Body of Christ?

Also, can you address 2 Peter 3?

Before Peter wrote his epistle to the Galatians, Paul told the Galatians that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed.

If Peter preached a different gospel to the Galatians after Paul wrote his epistle to the Galatians, then should Peter have been accursed?

patrick jane
June 2nd, 2015, 07:20 PM
No, you closed the thread because you know that 2 Peter 3 destroys your false "two gospel" theory.

(2 Peter 3:15 KJV) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

In your thread, and this thread, you have yet to actually address 2 Peter 3 because you know you can't.

Tet, it is answered in the very next verse - despite the OTHER irrefutable proofs already shown to you from Scripture. 2Peter 3:16 shows clearly that at the time Peter wrote that he was finally beginning to barely understand Paul's epistles and gospel of salvation -

2 Peter 3:16 KJV - - 2 Peter 3:16 NIV -

Galatians 2:7 KJV -

Galatians 2:11 KJV -

Galatians 2:14 KJV -

and many more -

end of all 1 gospel only threads - :idea:

john w
June 2nd, 2015, 11:36 PM
No, you closed the thread because you know that 2 Peter 3 destroys your false "two gospel" theory.

(2 Peter 3:15 KJV) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

In your thread, and this thread, you have yet to actually address 2 Peter 3 because you know you can't.

So, once again, Craigie asserts that Judas preached the gospel/good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

That's stupid Craigie's satanic Preterism.

God's Truth
June 2nd, 2015, 11:43 PM
So, once again, Craigie asserts that Judas preached the gospel/good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.

That's stupid Craigie's satanic Preterism.

All of Jesus' Apostles taught the good news.

tetelestai
June 3rd, 2015, 06:47 AM
2Peter 3:16 shows clearly that at the time Peter wrote that he was finally beginning to barely understand Paul's epistles and gospel of salvation -

MAD claims the epistle of 2 Peter is a different gospel than the epistle of Galatians.

As you pointed out, 2 Peter was written by Peter after Paul wrote Galatians.

Both epistles were written to Galatians.

Since Paul told the Galatians that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed, how could Peter subsequently preach a different gospel to the Galatians without being accursed?

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 08:20 AM
Tet, it is answered in the very next verse - despite the OTHER irrefutable proofs already shown to you from Scripture. 2Peter 3:16 shows clearly that at the time Peter wrote that he was finally beginning to barely understand Paul's epistles and gospel of salvation -


How can you say something as false as that?

Peter did not write that he was finally beginning to barely understand Paul's epistles and gospel of salvation!

How dare you just make up things that are not there.

Grosnick Marowbe
June 3rd, 2015, 08:26 AM
All of Jesus' Apostles taught the good news.

There were "two" separate" messages being preached at that time;

A) The Kingdom Message.
B) The Grace Message.

If you knew how to "rightly divide" the word, you'd be privy to that truth!

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 08:29 AM
There were "two" separate" messages being preached at that time;

A) The Kingdom Message.
B) The Grace Message.

If you knew how to "rightly divide" the word, you'd be privy to that truth!

Those messages are the same.

Jesus is the promised good news that came.

Jesus says he had good news. You say he did not have 'the' better news but that Paul did.

Think about the consequences if you are wrong.

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 08:31 AM
There were "two" separate" messages being preached at that time;

A) The Kingdom Message.
B) The Grace Message.

If you knew how to "rightly divide" the word, you'd be privy to that truth!

How would you ever get that the kingdom of God being near and then within a person is not the message of grace?

Grosnick Marowbe
June 3rd, 2015, 08:32 AM
How would you ever get that the kingdom of God being near and then within a person is not the message of grace?

Huh?

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 08:47 AM
Huh?

You said, "There were "two" separate" messages being preached at that time;"

A) The Kingdom Message.
B) The Grace Message.


How can you get that the message of the kingdom of God being near, and then being inside us is not the grace message?

When we receive the Holy Spirit that is when we have the kingdom of God within us.

john w
June 3rd, 2015, 10:06 AM
All of Jesus' Apostles taught the good news.

Peter attempted to prevent the Masters death-twice. The 12 had no idea the He would die, much less be raised=it was hid from them. After the resurrection, they initially did not believe it. And yet you claim that the 12 preached:

"Good news!!!!Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved!!"


You claim Judas preached this.


"All of Jesus' Apostles taught the good news."-Silly Goose

You've yet to show where any of the 12 ever preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, after being asked over 50 times. Again, Show us, prior to the dbr, where the 12 ever preached:


"Good news!!!!Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved!!"

Chapter, verse.

You won't, as it was hid from the 12. You deny that, and that Luke 18 KJV should be in the bible.


Fraud.

john w
June 3rd, 2015, 10:08 AM
Those messages are the same

That is the Silly Goose's answer to everything.

Fraud.

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 10:27 AM
Peter attempted to prevent the Masters death-twice. The 12 had no idea the He would die, much less be raised=it was hid from them. After the resurrection, they initially did not believe it. And yet you claim that the 12 preached:

"Good news!!!!Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved!!"


You claim Judas preached this.


"All of Jesus' Apostles taught the good news."-Silly Goose

You've yet to show where any of the 12 ever preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, after being asked over 50 times. Again, Show us, prior to the dbr, where the 12 ever preached:


"Good news!!!!Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved!!"

Chapter, verse.

You won't, as it was hid from the 12. You deny that, and that Luke 18 KJV should be in the bible.


Fraud.

Jesus is the promise and good news.

john w
June 3rd, 2015, 10:35 AM
Jesus is the promise and good news.

She can't produce any verse that shows the 12, prior to the death, burial, resurrection, preaching the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, which is the preaching of the death, burial, resurrection, and yet, the 12 did preach "the gospel of the kingdom," which means, if you are sane, that the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, is not equivalent to "the gospel/good news of the kingdom," picking apart her "just one piece of good news in the book...it all says the same thing..." satanic spam.

But not one person on TOL, that is saved, has ever claimed that this Silly goose fraud is sane, and that this verse, should not be in the book, as she does:


Luke 18 KJV

31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. 32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: 33 and they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again. 34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

john w
June 3rd, 2015, 10:37 AM
Jesus is the promise and good news.

Show where any of the 12 ever preached the good news of 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV, after being asked over 51 times. Again, show us, prior to the dbr, where the 12 ever preached:


"Good news!!!!Christ is going to die for your/our sins...be buried....raised again....Believe this good news to be saved!!"

Chapter, verse.

You won't, as it was hid from the 12. You deny that, and that Luke 18 KJV should be in the bible.


Fraud.

Grosnick Marowbe
June 3rd, 2015, 10:41 AM
You said, "There were "two" separate" messages being preached at that time;"

A) The Kingdom Message.
B) The Grace Message.


How can you get that the message of the kingdom of God being near, and then being inside us is not the grace message?

When we receive the Holy Spirit that is when we have the kingdom of God within us.

You're 'truly' limited!

Danoh
June 3rd, 2015, 11:45 AM
There were "two" separate" messages being preached at that time;

A) The Kingdom Message.
B) The Grace Message.

If you knew how to "rightly divide" the word, you'd be privy to that truth!

Prophesied Grace, in contrast to..

Mystery Grace.

Jerry Shugart
June 3rd, 2015, 12:23 PM
Prophesied Grace, in contrast to..

Mystery Grace.

The "mystery" was in regard to this prophesied "grace" which was promised to the Israelites, and it concerned what the suffering of the Lord did signify:


"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven" (1 Pet.1:10-1).

Here Peter is saying that the prophets searched diligently in an effort to determine what the prophecies concerning Christ's suffering did signify but it was not revealed unto them. Even the Twelve Apostles, those closest to the Lord Jesus, did not realize that He was going to die (Lk.18:31-34) or be resurrected (Jn.20:9) until shortly before the Cross. They certainly did not know the "purpose" of the Cross, that believers are "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Jn.3:24).

Roger M. Raymer writes:


"Concerning this salvation (cf. 'salvation' in vv. 5, 9) the prophets...searched intently and with the greatest care their own Spirit-guided writings. They longed to participate in this salvation and coming period of grace and tried to discover the appointed time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing. The pondered how the glorious Messiah could be involved in suffering" (Walvoord & Zuck, The Bible Knowledge Commentary; New Testament [ChariotVictor Publishing, 1983], p.842).

Right Divider
June 3rd, 2015, 12:27 PM
You said, "There were "two" separate" messages being preached at that time;"

A) The Kingdom Message.
B) The Grace Message.

How can you get that the message of the kingdom of God being near, and then being inside us is not the grace message?

When we receive the Holy Spirit that is when we have the kingdom of God within us.
"the kingdom of God is within you" refers to a GROUP and NOT an INDIVIDUAL.

This is actually one of the great strengths of the KJB (though I know some dislike it). The KJB always distinguishes the difference between SINGULAR and PLURAL. In modern English, this distinction is mostly lost.

When the KJB says "YOU" it is ALWAYS PLURAL and NOT SINGULAR. If it was singular it would say "THEE" or "THOU".

tetelestai
June 3rd, 2015, 01:32 PM
This is actually one of the great strengths of the KJB (though I know some dislike it). The KJB always distinguishes the difference between SINGULAR and PLURAL. In modern English, this distinction is mostly lost.

When the KJB says "YOU" it is ALWAYS PLURAL and NOT SINGULAR. If it was singular it would says "THEE" or "THOU".

Correct.

(Matt 26:64 KJV) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Now if only you would apply your own rules to Matt 26:64 KJV, you would see that Jesus was telling the people He was talking to that they would see Him coming in the clouds of heaven.

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 01:49 PM
"the kingdom of God is within you" refers to a GROUP and NOT an INDIVIDUAL.
No. The kingdom of heaven is within those saved. We have the kingdom of heaven within us when we receive the Holy Spirit.

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

SaulToPaul
June 3rd, 2015, 01:51 PM
No. The kingdom of heaven is within those saved. We have the kingdom of heaven within us when we receive the Holy Spirit.



Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Who is inside of you, talking?

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 01:57 PM
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven

Who is inside of you, talking?

I have no idea what you are asking or why.

SaulToPaul
June 3rd, 2015, 01:58 PM
I have no idea what you are asking or why.

You said the kingdom of heaven is inside you.
"Jesus" said some people will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Who is inside of you, talking, calling people great?

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 02:07 PM
You said the kingdom of heaven is inside you.
"Jesus" said some people will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Who is inside of you, talking, calling people great?

I still have no idea what you are talking about.

SaulToPaul
June 3rd, 2015, 02:09 PM
I still have no idea what you are talking about.

Just read the two statements again, and follow the logic.

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 02:10 PM
Just read the two statements again, and follow the logic.

No thanks.

SaulToPaul
June 3rd, 2015, 02:10 PM
Matthew 11:12 (KJV)

How did it suffer violence? It's inside you remember.

tetelestai
June 3rd, 2015, 02:14 PM
You said the kingdom of heaven is inside you.

Do you believe the physical body of each believer is a temple for the Holy Spirit?

SaulToPaul
June 3rd, 2015, 02:19 PM
Do you believe the physical body of each believer is a temple for the Holy Spirit?

Is the Temple the kingdom of heaven?

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 02:19 PM
Matthew 11:12 (KJV)

How did it suffer violence? It's inside you remember.

When a person comes to God through Jesus, they HAVE COME TO MOUNT ZION, to the heavenly Jerusalem. We actually come to heaven where God is.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,

SaulToPaul
June 3rd, 2015, 02:21 PM
When a person comes to God through Jesus, they HAVE COME TO MOUNT ZION, to the heavenly Jerusalem. We actually come to heaven where God is.

Hebrews 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,

:doh:

Why do I bother...

tetelestai
June 3rd, 2015, 02:24 PM
Is the Temple the kingdom of heaven?

No.

(Rev 21:22) I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Now, do you want to try answering the question?

Here it is again:

Do you believe the physical body of each believer is a temple for the Holy Spirit?

SaulToPaul
June 3rd, 2015, 02:25 PM
Now, do you want to try answering the question?



Doesn't work that way. I was talking to GT about the kingdom of heaven, and you want to slide in a side topic to distract from the fact she said something completely stupid.

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 02:26 PM
:doh:

Why do I bother...

When a person is saved, they have the kingdom of heaven within them.

1 Corinthians 6:17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

John 6:56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.

Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Colossians 3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.

Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

God's Truth
June 3rd, 2015, 02:28 PM
Doesn't work that way. I was talking to GT about the kingdom of heaven, and you want to slide in a side topic to distract from the fact she said something completely stupid.

Please answer tetelestai.

Do you believe the saved are the temple of the Holy Spirit?

Shasta
June 3rd, 2015, 02:29 PM
In a previous thread started by heir, heir closed the thread because she knows that 2 Peter 3 completely destroys her "two gospel" theory.

Here is the post that upset heir so much, that she closed the thread:


Paul said the following to the Galatians:

(Gal 1:8 KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Peter also wrote an epistle to the Galatians:

(1 Peter 1:1 KJV) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

According to heir, Peter's epistle to the Galatians is a different gospel than Paul's epistle to the Galatians.

But, Paul tells the Galatians if anyone preaches a different gospel he preached to them, that they are to be accursed.

So, pretend your a Galatian in Galatia circa 55AD. A letter comes to your city from the Apostle Paul, and the letter says that if anyone preaches a different gospel, they are to be accursed. Then a letter comes to your city from Peter (that heir claims is a different gospel).

If what heir claims is true, then Peter, and anyone who preached what Peter sent to the Galatians would be accursed if it was really a different gospel (heir's claim)

So, it's impossible that Peter and Paul preached different gospels to the Galatians. Yet, that is what heir claims.

heir likes to quote 1 Cor 15:1-4, but she apparently doesn't read past verse 4

(1 Cor 15:11 KJV) Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

I read through this lengthy thread though I saw many proclamations, many elaborate expositions of MAD and rather too much acrimony, I have yet to see anyone who believes in dual gospels reconcile Gal. 1:8 and 1 Peter 1:1 which you brought up. Why haveso many apparently creative people not applied their collective exegetical abilities to solve this problem?

tetelestai
June 3rd, 2015, 02:32 PM
Doesn't work that way. I was talking to GT about the kingdom of heaven, and you want to slide in a side topic to distract from the fact she said something completely stupid.

The question pertains to what the two of you are discussing.

Why are you always so afraid of questions?

john w
June 3rd, 2015, 02:32 PM
:doh:

Why do I bother...

1.You have a compelsion complex, or,
2. You're a fine son.

?

john w
June 3rd, 2015, 02:34 PM
Why are you always so afraid of questions?




Wow, Craigie! How long did it take you to come up with that "show stopper?"

Clown. Sit down. You're an embarrassment to this site

tetelestai
June 3rd, 2015, 02:34 PM
I have yet to see anyone who believes in dual gospels reconcile Gal. 1:8 and 1 Peter 1:1 which you brought up. Why have so many apparently creative people not applied their collective exegetical abilities to solve this problem?

They keep ignoring it because they know it completely destroys their "two gospel" theory.

It's why they keep ignoring it over and over again.

I brought it up in heir's "two gospel" thread, and it upset her so much, she closed the thread.