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CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:27 PM
Allah Islam Muslim
Allah is not Yahwah
Allah is a phase of the sun, translation "The Dawn", interpretation: Morning Star or Rising Sun. Allah is the contracted form from Alilah, {Al il ah} and the transliteral is this: The/god/ascends. The reason for the confusion is because the word "Allah" is borrowed from the Chaldean language. It is not an Aramaic word. More than two thousand years ago the Aramaic word for God was El, and "Elah," and “Il” and “Ilah,” which means “God” and “The God."

Note: Aramaic and ancient Hebrew did not use the letter e for a vowel.

As tradition has it, it was Abraham and Ishmael that built the Kaaba as a house for Elohiym, but as time went on other gods were introduced and placed in the Kaaba. Now when Elohiym was in the Kaaba pantheon, there came the King of Moab called Balak; and it was Balak who wanted the prophet Balaam to ask Elohiym to curse the Jews, but Elohiym refused to curse the Jews.

(For more info see Numbers 22 through 24:25 in the bible)

At some point in time afterward, Elohiym, the God of Abraham was cast out of the Kaaba by the Arabic people, and His name was cursed and not to be ever spoken. During that time Chemosh was made the head of the Pantheon in the Kaaba. Chemosh means Highest Power, and is also a phase of the sun at midday; it is Allah who becomes Chemosh at midday.

And so Mohammed did not know the name of the God of Abraham. What Arabs have forgotten, is that because the Hebrews and Arabs are descendants of Abraham, they both had spoken the same language at one time.

The New Testament scripture of Matthew 22:37 repeat’s Deut. 6:5. If this verse were represented in Hebrew, it would, show YHWH, not Allah as the one you should love as the God of you. The translations clearly show that LORD is a substitute for the word Yahwah.

Jesus is reported to have cried out in Aramaic: ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? If Allah was valid, how come Jesus called out in Aramaic "Eloi;" Although those who have translated the Bible into Arabic used Allah as a term for God.

According to The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the definition of Eloi is as follows: Eloi is of Aramaic origin, and is the Aramaic phrase "my God". God has many name titles, but Yahwah is the only "true" personal name of God.

Note: Babylonia, Babylonian: ( Bavili / Babili ) in the Akkadian language of the time, meant "Gate of the gods." Babili, a contracted word for "gate of the gods"; ending in "li", forming a double "LL" sound for the word "gods".

Using Ahmed Deedat's booklet, "What is His Name." On page 25 of Deedat's book, he gives a list of the names of deities in Hebrew, English, and Arabic.

He claims that Elah, a Hebrew Bible name, is the same as ILAH in Arabic. There is just one problem. Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is Elah the name of God. It is the name of a man and the name of an oak tree.
(Pictorial Ency. of the Bible, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI, USA, Vol. 5.)

"Elah" means "gods above" in the old Aramaic. We are grateful to Ahmed Deedat who has helped us identify Allah by admitting that "ILAH" is the root name for Allah.

The complete name of Allah before it is contracted is "AL-ILAH."
(Hitti, Philip, History of The Arabs, London, 1950 , 8 ,) "ILAH" is the masculine root word for Allah, or "god", in Arabic. "AL ILAT" is the feminine resulting in Allat.

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:29 PM
The "AL" on the front of Al-ILAH is simply the definite article "the." (Tisdall, W StClair, The Sources of Islam, Amarko Book Agency, New Delhi, 1901 , 5-6 , , Islamic Propagation Center Int. Durban, S. Africa)

AL-ILAH and AL-ILLAT are the root forms of the two names, Allah and Allat, from ancient Sumer were the names of a god and goddess. Allat is the goddess referred to in the "Satanic Verses" in Al-Koran, Sura 53:19-23.

There is no contracted form of God's name, as Deedat claims, in the Old Testament of the Hebrew Bible.

Also, this Allah of Islam is not Elah of the Bible, unless Allah was the son of Esau named Elah (Genesis 36:41) nor was Allah one of the kings of Israel? (I King 16:6-8,13-14).

Deedat and the Mullahs claim that "Alah" is used by Dr. C.I. Scofield to clarify the origin and meaning of Elohiym.
The note cited is in the footnote of the Scofield Reference Bible, King James Version, under Genesis 1:1.

Deedat claims Alah and Elah are variations of the same Hebrew word. But "Alah" is the word for an oath or vow, while Elah is the name of a man, a valley, or an oak.
Dr. Scofield says that "EL" is combined with "ALAH" to give the name of God, which is in error, because the two words do not contract into Elohiym, as any primary student can see!

ALAH" is a plain Hebrew word, not a contraction as with "Allah" of Islam which comes from AL ILah," and thus the double "LL". The Hebrew language has no relationship linguistically to the Allah in Arabic and the Koran. Also, there is no record in the history of the Hebrew language that "ALAH" is part of the concept of "EL" or "Elohiym." This is why the revised edition of the Scofield Reference Bible omitted the note on "ALAH."

Ahmed Deedat has been very helpful to use Schofield's erroneous note. He has shown that Muhammad was not the only one to blunder by listening to Satan in the Koran, Sura 53.

Allah is not in the Bible, and Yahwah or Elohiym is not in the Koran or Mecca.

So what is the origin of Allah? Allah was not an invention or revelation brought to Muhammad during his visits to the caves outside of Mecca, because Allah existed long before Muhammad showed up on the scene.

According to W. Montgomery Watt, Muhammad's original message was not a criticism of paganism. It was directed at the people who already believed in a god named Allah, or Al-ILAH "the god ascends."

Muhammad encouraged the people of Mecca to retain this generic god in the Kaaba as he directed their attention to Allah, then he threw all of the other gods out. The evolving monotheism of Mecca was vague as to Allah's role, so Muhammad had very little trouble tailoring his new religion to their tastes.
(Watt, W Montgomery, Muhammad, Prophet and Statesman, Oxford Press, 25-26. )

The Satanic Verses allowed the Meccan’s to keep Allat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. This helped to wean the Meccan’s off of their pantheon slowly, leaving them their three favorite goddesses until Allah's monotheism could be enforced later by the sword.

(Noss, John B, Man's Religions, 6th Edition, Macmillan, NY, 1980, 499, )

At that point Muhammad revised Sura 53 to exclude the three goddesses, and Allah was left standing alone, the monotheistic heir to the estate.

James Hastings, in his Encyclopedia of Religion, says that Muhammed at one point wanted to abandon the rather generic name of Allah for a more colorful one, but he later realized that Allah was holding the people’s attention just fine.

(Hastings, James, Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Scribners, NY ,248 ,)

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:30 PM
When Muhammad came to Mecca to clean up the Kaaba, and was throwing all of the gods out, except for Allah, the paintings of Jesus and Mary on the inside walls of the Kaaba persuaded him to include Mary and Jesus in the new cult. So that's why Surah 5:116 mentioned Mary.

How Muhammad decided to keep Allah is simply a matter of which god he thought would be universally least offensive to any particular tribe of Arabs around Mecca.

(Muller, Herbert J, The Loom of History, Harper and Brothers, NY, 264-265,)

After all, it was the Kaaba, the building, which was most sacred, rather than the contents. Even today the mosque (which originally was the pre-Islamic name in Arabic and Aramaic for a building holding an idol) is now void of images and symbols.
It is the building itself which is sacred.

The least offensive name of the gods in Mecca was Allah according to Muhammad's biographer, Ibn Hisham. He admits that the pagan Kinanah and Kouraish tribes called the supervising god of the Kaaba, IHLAL. And they called the Kaaba, "Beit Allah," "house of Allah."

This is henotheism where a chief executive god presides over many junior gods on behalf of the ruling tribe living around the god house.

The Greek historian Herodotus from about 450 BC, tells us that the Northern Arabians had a god and goddess named Orotal and Alilat.

(Herodotus, Translated by J Enoch Powell, 1949 , 200 ,)

Orotal is simply a corruption of Allah, or Allah Ta'al, God Most High.

(Zwemmer, Samuel, The Moslem Doctrine of God, Am. Tract Society, NY , 24 , )

Islamic Sheikh, Ibrahim Al-Qattan, in a lecture given to the International Progress Association in Vienna, said that the religion of Arabia can be traced by the epigraphic and inscription evidence back to 500 BC, or 1000 years before Muhammad.

He said that they had gods named Baal Shamin, Dhu-Samawi, Rahman and Allah, which they got from Syria and Persia.

According to Sheikh Ibrahim, Allah was the highest deity, and his name was inscribed in stone by Jewish traders along the Arabian trade routes. These paganized Jews also called him Rahman, while the Arabs called him Allah.
(Al-Qattan, Sheikh Ibrahim, Lecture on Monotheism, I P O Journal, Vienna ,26-29 ,)

It is very clear that these sacred concepts, such as Allah, the Kaaba with its black stone, running around the Kaaba seven times, climbing mount Arafat, as well as the god-name Rahman, and stoning Satan, (which Muhammad got "by revelation") were salvaged from the ancient paganism in Arabia.
(Gabrieli, Francesco, Muhammad and The Conguests of Islam, World Univ. Press, NY, Toronto , 41 ).

The clear dominance of the Meccan thought of Muhammad's day was that Allah was the high god, nothing else. His celestial, or solar, role had even fallen on hard times by 600 AD in the Kaaba, while Allat was much more dominant up the road at Taif. Some have claimed that Allat was Wallat wasn't in Islam, but Surah 53 and historical inscriptions say otherwise. The star and crescent of Islam are clearly based upon the moon goddess, Allat, and the astral goddess, Al-Uzza.
Allat and Al-Uzza figure in Sura 53 in what is called "the Satanic verses," which Muhammad initially gave, but it was later deleted.

The moon and Venus connection to Allat and Al-Uzza are one of the most embarrassing matters for the Mullahs of Islam.

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:31 PM
In the linage of IL, alias, Enlil, ILAH, Be`IL, Bel, Ba`al, and so on, the god always has a goddess consort, who is usually a grammatical gender alternative.
Such is the case with Allat, the goddess of Arabia. She was the consort of Allah, so the ancient rule of deities follows very well.

Allah was a sun deity, and Allat was the moon goddess. If we leave Allah who he was from the past, he is then easy to trace back to Babel. The inscriptions of the Arabs, in which they refer to Allah and Allat, in the same passage, would have found that these references lead systematically back from Mecca to North Arabia, Jawf, Petra, Phoenicia, Palmyra, Assyria, and finally to Babylon, IN ARABIC language forms, and as early as about 1500 BC.

By tracking the route of Allah from Sumer to Mecca's Northern route, Allah's route through Assyria is one of the first places he began, away from Sumer, the LIL base root mentioned before was found in Assyria.

A typical record of the passage of LIL, or Allah, through Assyria is found in a royal inscription which may have been a bilingual effort, but only the Assyrian tablets survived.
The translator is Sayce in The Hibbert Lectures, p. 511-12, and it is, of course, in cuneiform.
The source is the Royal Asiatic Society, London, 1932. In line 14 there is praise of the ruler, undoubtedly Assyrian, for his love for "the writings of the age before the flood." This dates the Assyrian text solidly to about 2500 BC or earlier.

In praising the ruler in line 17, the author says he set up worship to Shamash and Rammam. This is the god Rimmon mentioned in the Bible, II King 5:18: Naaman, the Assyrian General, says, "In this thing the LORD pardon thy servant, that when my master goeth into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leaneth on my hand... I bow down myself in the house of Rimmon, the LORD pardon thy servant in this thing."

Naaman had worshipped this god, until he was converted to the worship of Elohiym through a healing experience in Israel. He was told by God's prophet to go in peace since his heart was right.

Rammam became Rimmon of later days, and then he moved in two other directions. In Persia and India he became Brahman, and survives in Vedantic theology to this day.

In Mecca, Muhammad used Rahman as a name for Allah, and this is also Ramman.

Translation experts have proven that Rahman, Rimmon and other forms of LIL represent Allah, even though the names evolved, they still represent Allah. This historical evidence is verified by experts.

Going back to the cuneiform clay tablets, on line 17, the whole name on Ramman is "Ramman ilani." Here you see the IL root in the "god" word. On line 18 of an opposite "page" we find the Assyrian ruler praised the name of Enlil ilani. Enlil was the primal earth god of Sumer. Here then we see that "ilani" is a basic god word attached to the more specific god, Rammam.

Rahman was the Assyrian favorite and was the counterpart to Enlil, who, by this point in time, was quite ancient.
Here then is clear proof that LIL , IL , and Enlil moved to Assyria from Babylon to become contemporary with Ramman.

Ninlil, the goddess and wife of Enlil, came along also, being addressed in prayer as the "wife of sovereignty." She had to share the goddess role with Beltis, wife of Baal, showing how the old is added to the new.

(Smith, Sidney, Babylonian Historical Texts, Methuen and Co, London , 86-87,)

They were around Shinar, and later around much of the Tigris and Euphrates Valley, mounds where Semiramis was said to have buried her lovers.
They accompanied the belief that Tammuz, the later name of Nimrod, was the victim there.

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:33 PM
In allegory, a poem was written centered on Gilgamesh, another Nimrod re-name.

The goddess is addressed and scolded for trying to kill Gilgamesh as follows:
Tammuz, the lover of your youth,
You caused to weep every year.
The bright colored Allallu bird you did love.
You did crush him, and break his pinions.

(Frazer, J G, The Golden Bough, Vol. IX, Unabr. Edition, The Scapegoat, Lond , 371,)

Note Allallu in the above poem. This is clearly an Allah god form from 2300 BC! Alasandair Livingstone did exhaustive work on the Babylonian and Assyrians, and their notions and lists of gods.

These works seem to be instructions in whom to pray to, and are similar to the long list of Saints in the Roman Catholic Church, each having his own particular interest in nationalities and life problems.

All of the Sumerian pantheon is carefully exalted, and new gods are added.

In one list, two gods come up, Alla and Alala. These are at least dated from 2300 BC, and it shows that the name Allah had roots in the most literal sense from the Assyrian era.

(Livingston, Alasdair, Mystical and Mythological Explanatory Works of Assyrian and Babylonian Scholars, Oxford, 1986 , 198-201,)




In another liturgical prayer book of Assyria, the order of prayers was in descending order with most of the pantheon included so that none would be offended. Way down the list there was a request made to the "bird of heaven" to carry the prayers up for the worshipper.

( Sayce, A H, Assyria, Religious Tract Society, London , 86-87. )

So we see that the heritage of Allah, or LIL, was at work in the Semitic language forms of Assyria. Later Arab forms simply added the classic aspirated "h" on the end (ILAH).
The only thing the Arabs added was "H", and Allah wasn't a new concept of God. And Muhammad's personal biographer proved it.

To confirm the bridge between Sumer and Assyria, we go to "The Annals of Sennacherib." Luckenbill deciphered the chapter describing the improvements on the royal palace, from which we take excerpts. This is a very small part of the cuneiform material from the era, and in it we find the following:

Line 66- Assyrians are called "the subjects of Enlil" (note IL-god). Line 77-79- Both Enlil and Ninlil are appealed to, which shows the clear migration, from Sumer to Assyria, of the god and goddess concept in the IL model.

Line 24- Enlil is called "Father," which shows the nonsense of Muhammed's claim that Allah is not a father.

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:36 PM
List of variant names for Chemosh: Chemosh, Chemesh, Shemesh, Shemosh, Kemosh, Kemesh, Kemowsh, Shamash, SHMH.

ARCHAEOLOGY. MOABITE STONE OF MESHA 930 BC.

Here is the proof that was written in stone, that the Arabs knew the name of God as Yahwah.

Moabite Stone
I am Mesha, son of Kemoshmelek, the king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father was king over Moab for thirty years, and I became king after my father.
And I made this high place for Kemosh in Qarhar . . . because of the deliverance of Mesha, and because he has saved me from all the kings and because he caused me to see [my desire] upon all who hated me. Omri, king of Israel -- he oppressed Moab many days, because Kemosh was angry with his land.
And his son succeeded him, and he also said I will oppress Moab. In my day he spoke according to this word, but I saw my desire upon him and upon his house, and Israel utterly perished forever.
Now Omri had possessed all the land of Medeba and dwelt in it his days and half the days of his son, forty years, but Kemosh restored it in my day. And I built Baal-meon and I made in it the reservoir and I built Kiryathaim. And the men of Gad had dwelt in the land of Ataroth from of old and the king of Israel had built for himself Ataroth. And I foutht against the city and took it, and I slew all the people of the city, a sight pleasing to Kemosh and to Moab.
And I brought back from there the altar-hearth of Duda and I dragged it before Kemosh in Kiryoth. And I caused to dwell in it the men of Sharon and the men of Meharoth (?).
And Kemosh said to me: "Go take Nebo against Israel"; and I went by night and fought against it from break of dawn till noon, and I took it and slew all, seven thousand men, boys (?), and women, and girls, for I had devoted it to the Ashtar of Kemosh.
And I took from there the altar-hearths of Yahwah, and I dragged them before Kemosh. And the king of Israel built Jabaz and dwelt in it while he fought with me, and Kemosh drove him out from before me. And I took from Moab two hundred men, all its chiefs, and I led them against Jahaz and took it to add unto Dibon.
And I built Qarhar (?), the wall of the forests and the wall of the hill; and I built its gates and I built its towers, and I built the kings house, and I made the sluices (?) for the reservoir of water in the midst of the city.
And there was no cistern in the midst of the city, in Qarhar (?); and I said to all the people: "Make you each a cistern in his house;" and I cut the cuttings for Qarhar (?) with the help of the prisoners of Israel. I built Aroer and I made the highway by the Arnon. And I built Beth-bamoth, for it had been destroyed. And I built Bezer, for it was in ruins....(Chi) of Dibon were fifty, for all Dibon was obedient. And I ruled. And I ruled a hundred....in the cities which I had added to the land. And I built [Mede] and Beth-Diblathan. And [as for] Beth-baal-meon, there I placed sheep-raisers....sheep of the land... And [as for] Horonaim there dwelt in it....and.....Kemosh said unto me: "Go down, fight against Horonaim," and I went down and....Kemosh in my day, and from there.....and I.......

Source: George A Barton, Archaeology and the Bible, Seventh Edition, p. 460-461CHEMOSH

Chemosh was the god of war and the national god of the Moabites. He is the same as the Babylonian god Shamash. Chemosh was the national deity of the Moabites (Numbers 21:29; Jeremiah 47:7,13-46). In Judges 11:24 he also appears as the god of the Ammonites. Solomon introduced, and Josiah abolished, the worship of Chemosh at Jerusalem.

Chemosh was an ancient West Semitic deity, revered by the Moabites as their supreme god. Little is known about Chemosh; although King Solomon of Israel built a sanctuary to him east of Jerusalem (1 Kings 11:7), the shrine was later abolished by King Josiah (2 Kings 23:13).

The goddess Astarte was probably the cult partner of Chemosh. On the famous Moabite Stone, written by Mesha, a 9th century BC king of Moab, Chemosh received prominent mention as the deity who brought victory to the Moabites in their battle against the Israelites.

When Chemosh was the chief god of the Moabites, Mesha the king of Moab dedicated a "high place" to him at Dibon. Mesha also proscribed for him the Israelite city of Nebo, and part of the spoils of war.

Chemosh: An Akkadian god-list which identifies him with the god Nergal and Alilah that formed a trinity. Alilah was the morning sun, Chemosh the afternoon sun, and Nergal after sunset. Support for this identification may be found in Ugaritic texts.

Mohammad invented his religion to gain power and wealth. That is a historical fact.

Truster
February 21st, 2015, 04:38 PM
This is the first verse of the Indonesian Bible.

1:1 Pada mulanya Allah menciptakan langit dan bumi.

And this Genisis 2:4 Demikianlah riwayat langit dan bumi pada waktu diciptakan. Ketika TUHAN Allah menjadikan bumi dan langit, --

OCTOBER23
February 21st, 2015, 04:39 PM
MOHAMMED REPORTED THAT HE HAD BEEN IN A CAVE AND

TALKED WITH A RESPLENDENT ANGEL [SATAN]

WHO GAVE HIM INFORMATION FOR HIS KORAN.

Muhammad's experience in the cave - his call to "prophethood".

Quoting from the Hadith of Bukhari, 9.111:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good righteous (true) dreams in his sleep. He never had a dream but that it came true like bright day light. He used to go in seclusion (the cave of) Hira where he used to worship(Allah Alone) continuously for many (days) nights. He used to take with him the journey food for that (stay) and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again for another period to stay, till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." (The Prophet added), "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, "I do not know how to read," whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, "I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?)." Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, "Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous...up to..... ..that which he knew not." (96.15)

Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his neck muscles twitching with terror till he entered upon Khadija and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and then he said, "O Khadija, what is wrong with me?" Then he told her everything that had happened and said, 'I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija said, 'Never! But have the glad tidings, for by Allah, Allah will never disgrace you as you keep good relations with your Kith and kin, speak the truth, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guest generously and assist the deserving, calamity-afflicted ones."

... But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).

Truster
February 21st, 2015, 04:39 PM
PS John 1:1

Pada mulanya adalah Firman; Firman itu bersama-sama dengan Allah dan Firman itu adalah Allah.

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:45 PM
This is the first verse of the Indonesian Bible.

1:1 Pada mulanya Allah menciptakan langit dan bumi.

And this Genisis 2:4 Demikianlah riwayat langit dan bumi pada waktu diciptakan. Ketika TUHAN Allah menjadikan bumi dan langit, --

Allah is a corruption of God's personal name. God was cursed by the Arabs for not cursing the Jews for them, they knew His name as Yahwah. Yahwah's name was not to ever be spoken again by the Arabs. That is why Mohammad did not know the name of God, and that is why he used the pagan god name Allah.

Truster
February 21st, 2015, 04:47 PM
Allah is a corruption of God's personal name. Before God was cursed by the Arabs for not cursing the Jews for them, they knew His name as Yahwah. Yahwah's name was not to ever be spoken again by the Arabs. That is why Mohammad did not know the name of God, and that is why he used the pagan god name Allah.

For your information God is a corruption of Elohim and its a title not a Name. God is a transliteration of the Germanic tribal name for idol Gott.

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:48 PM
MOHAMMED REPORTED THAT HE HAD BEEN IN A CAVE AND

TALKED WITH A RESPLENDENT ANGEL [SATAN]

WHO GAVE HIM INFORMATION FOR HIS KORAN.

Muhammad's experience in the cave - his call to "prophethood".

Quoting from the Hadith of Bukhari, 9.111:
Narrated 'Aisha:
The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good righteous (true) dreams in his sleep. He never had a dream but that it came true like bright day light. He used to go in seclusion (the cave of) Hira where he used to worship(Allah Alone) continuously for many (days) nights. He used to take with him the journey food for that (stay) and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again for another period to stay, till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." (The Prophet added), "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, "I do not know how to read," whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, "I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?)." Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, "Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous...up to..... ..that which he knew not." (96.15)

Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his neck muscles twitching with terror till he entered upon Khadija and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and then he said, "O Khadija, what is wrong with me?" Then he told her everything that had happened and said, 'I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija said, 'Never! But have the glad tidings, for by Allah, Allah will never disgrace you as you keep good relations with your Kith and kin, speak the truth, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guest generously and assist the deserving, calamity-afflicted ones."

... But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).

The Koran was not written until many years after Mohammad died. The Koran has been changed a number of times by the Mullahs.

Nick M
February 21st, 2015, 04:49 PM
God is a transliteration of the Germanic tribal name for idol Gott.

So what. You know full well what it means now.

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:50 PM
For your information God is a corruption of Elohim and its a title not a Name. God is a transliteration of the Germanic tribal name for idol Gott.

I am aware of that, but that is not the subject here. Please stay on thread topic.

Truster
February 21st, 2015, 04:53 PM
I am aware of that, but that is not the subject here. Please stay on thread topic.

I was on topic with Allah until you changed the direction by stating Allah is a corruption of the name God and if, as you say, you are aware of what I said why post such ignorant remarks?

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 04:58 PM
I had this topic sent to Iran in Farsi years ago. Iran thought that America was using negative propaganda against them. They also made it a death penalty to have this writing in possession.

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 05:01 PM
I was on topic with Allah until you changed the direction by stating Allah is a corruption of the name God and if, as you say, you are aware of what I said why post such ignorant remarks?
Allah is the contracted form of Alilah. Allah is as a matter of fact a pagan god.

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 05:21 PM
The meaning of the word Islam

Islam is an Arabic word that means "submission or submit (to Allah)". It has a relationship to another Arabic word, such as Salaam, meaning "peace". The Arabic word "Muslim" is related to the word Islam and means a "vassal" of Allah, and whom has surrendered and submitted (to Allah). Muslims see homage to Allah as a sign of distinction; paying homage means serving the will of Allah above and beyond one's own goals. The Arabic word "Islam" simply means "submission", and is derived from the word meaning "peace." In a religious context it simply means submit to the will of Allah. And so Islam means “submission” not “peace." It is frequently said that the word Islam means “peace.” It does not. Islam is the Arabic word for “submission.” The Arabic word for “peace” is transliterated as salam or salaam. In Arabic, as in English, these are distinctly different words.

Apple7
February 21st, 2015, 07:38 PM
Allah is the contracted form of Alilah. Allah is as a matter of fact a pagan god.

Agreed.

The best Arabic lexicons prove this out...as the term 'allah' is shown to be derived from the same exact root word as the pagan Arab idols, up to, and including, the great serpent - of which, we know to be Satan, himself.

There are actually Koranic ayat which also paint 'allah' as the devil....along with suras narrated by, and named after, demons!

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 09:43 PM
Beyond logic, beyond reason.


Recently the Spokesman for the Taliban said, “Those youths who did what they did destroyed America with their airplanes they’ve done a good deed.” He went on to say “THERE ARE THOUSANDS OF YOUTH WHO LOOK FORWARD TO DEATH LIKE THE AMERICANS LOOK FORWARD TO LIVING.”


Surah 2:256 “Let there be no compulsion in Religion.” This would be a rational position if practiced as a standard, however Muslims disallow the Bible (as well as other books of religion) in their countries and do not give people a choice. They do not want to engage in dialogue or allow freedom of choice when they are in control. To present the Bibles Gospel is tantamount to aggression, so one is labeled an infidel, and the use of force can be used to restrain him. The rest of this verse says “Truth stands out Clear from Error: whoever Rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped, the most trustworthy Hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth And knoweth all things.” This verse seems to imply that those who embrace Islam willingly are accepted.

Why is it so hard for Muslim to become a Christian or join with another religion? Mohammed said, “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57) This command is practiced in almost all Islamic Fundamentalist countries today.

While the Qur’an says not to begin with hostilities, and Allah does not love the aggressor, it is not acceptable when Islam is refused. For it teaches not to turn away and bless but “the one who attacks you, you attack him in like manner...whoso defendeth himself after he hath suffered wrong, there is no way (blame) against them.”

Sura 26:227 “Except those who believe, work righteousness, engage much in the remembrance of Allah, and defend themselves only after they are unjustly attacked. And soon will the unjust assailants know what vicissitudes their affairs will take!”

They present certain verses and ignore others verses that have quite a different tone such as 3:85 “Whoever seeks other than Islam as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be with the losers” “Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day…. Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! (Sura 9:5,29,41).

Muslim’s make every effort to suppress any who claim to follow the Bible. They say they believe the Bible but will not allow the Bible to be taught to Muslims. They cannot allow anyone who believes the Bible the right to declare their belief as they do. Their persecution of Bible believers shows their lack of trust in their own religion to show any truth. If they trust the power of the Qur'an, why would they rely on physical force and intimidation. However they will say, “Therefore grant a delay to the Unbelievers: Give respite to them gently (for awhile).” Sura 86:17

“And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, illtreated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help.” [Soorah an-Nisaa'4:75]

What I have seen on the news is that we cannot understand the Quran, it's in Arabic and we (those who do not believe) are considered illiterate, we are feeble in spiritual understanding. So words that we read in English do not mean the same in Arabic. Lets examine this argument: The translation is by Muslim scholars who speak Arabic and know the meaning, yet for some reason they don’t translate it accurately in the English! One only needs to read the Hadiths to know what is meant by the verses.

Another translation of the preceding verse is “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.”

Mohammed said, “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah” (Al Bukhari vol. 4:196).

They ask you concerning fighting in the Sacred Months (i.e. 1st, 7th, 11th and 12th months of the Islamic calendar). Say, “fighting therein is a great (transgression) but a greater (transgression) with Allah is to prevent mankind from following the Way of Allah, to disbelieve in Him, to prevent access to Al-Masjid-al-Haram (at Makkah), and to drive out its inhabitants, and Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And they will never cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion (Islamic Monotheism) if they can. And whosoever of you turns back from his religion and dies as a disbeliever, then his deeds will be lost in this life and in the Hereafter, and they will be the dwellers of the Fire. They will abide therein forever.” (Soorah an-Nisaa 4:75)

Jews and Christians are to be eliminated

Sura 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.” This friendship makes any Muslim a enemy of their own and deserving of the same fate as the unbeliever. This is because Allah does not guide an unjust people.


Sura3 3:64: “Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers (whom he defined as Christians in the 5th surah “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.) and has prepared for them a Blazing Fire to dwell in forever. No protector will they find, nor savior. That Day their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire. They will say: ‘Woe to us! We should have obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!’ ‘Our Lord! Give them double torment and curse them with a very great Curse!’”


Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

“What, do you desire to guide him whom Allah has led astray? Whom God leads astray, thou wilt not find for him a way [of salvation]. They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as a friend or helper. (Arberry, Interpreted p.113)

Hadith, the body of traditions relating to Mohammed and now supplemental to the Koran: He (Abu Hurayah) reported the messenger of Allah as saying: The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them, so that Jews will hide behind stones and trees and the Stone and the tree will say, O Muslim, O servant of Allah! There is a Jew behind me; come and kill him. The only exception will be the box-thorn for it is one of the trees of the Jews. (Sahih of Muslim, quoted by Israel and the Prophecies of Al Quran by Ali Akbar, Bismi Publishers 1992, p.44)

Of the Unbelievers: Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Sura 9:5)

4:101 “When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.” 4:102 “For the Unbelievers, Allah has prepared a humiliating punishment.”

8:19 “(O Unbelievers!) if ye prayed for victory and judgment, now hath the judgment come to you: if ye desist (from wrong), it will be best for you: if ye return (to the attack), so shall We. Not the least good will your forces be to you even if they (were multiplied: for verily Allah is with those who believe!”
8:59-60 “Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them). Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.”
Another translation makes this plain - “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”

CherubRam
February 21st, 2015, 09:44 PM
9.123 “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you”

9.73 “O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.”

Surah 2, Contains the subject of war numerous times (Jihad). It is approved to be the solution to aggression when necessary. The following paragraphs are out of the Qur’an. (The Qur’an was written in Arabic, but translated in English by those who are Muslim and speak Arabic.)

“War is prescribed to you: but from this ye are averse.” (Sura 2:212).

“To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause” (Al Bukhari vol. 1:25)

Sura 2:187-189 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels...Fight therefore against them until there be no more civil discord, and the only worship be that of God: but if they desist, then let there be no hostility, save against the wicked.”

2:190-292 “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits, for Allah does not love transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”

2:193 “And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and let there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.”

2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not. 217 They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: “Fighting therein is a grave (offense); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein.”

2:244 “Then fight in the cause of Allah, and know that Allah heareth and knoweth all things. 245 Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times? It is Allah that giveth (you) want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return.”

Many of these quotes should be self-evident what the meaning is. Of course they will be some that say that what they mean is not what they read like. Muslim clerics and their apologists are saying “the command to kill non-Muslims is not for today” it was only for a certain time. Where in the Qur’an does it say this? It does not say or teach the commands to kill the “infidels”, “unbelievers” “Jews” and “Christians” was only for a previous time. ” Nowhere. why should we accept this rhetoric? There is proof in the Qur'an that it is actually to continue and increase.

No doubt I heard Allah's messenger saying, “During the last days there will appear some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will leave the faith) and will go out from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.” (Bukhari volume 9, no.64)

One of their Hadiths states about their own: Narrated Ikrima: The statement of Allah’s Apostle (Muhammad), “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” (Hadith 9:45; 84.2.57.)

Sura 9:29-33 “Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in Allah, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which Allah and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled.”

Sura 8:15 “O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers preparing for battle do not turn your backs to them. [Anyone who does] shall incur the wrath of Allah, and Hell shall be his home,- an evil dwelling (indeed)!”

Sura 8:57 “So if you gain the mastery over them in war, punish them severely in order to disperse those who are behind them, so that they may learn a lesson.”

Sura 8:65 “O Messenger! Rouse the Believers among you to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish two thousand of the Unbelievers: for these are people without understanding.”

Sura 8:67 “It is not fitting for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he has made a great slaughter in the land.”

Sura 6:157 “Or lest ye should say: "If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they." Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord,- and a guide and a mercy: then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth Allah's signs, and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.”

Sura 8:12 “Remember your Lord inspired the angels with the message: “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.”

“Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah. Whatever you spend in the cause of Allah shall be repaid to you and you shall not be treated unjustly.”

“Take not the Jews and Christians for friends ... slay the idolaters [infidels] wherever ye find them. ...Fight against those who ... believe not in Allah nor the Last Day” (Sura 5:51; 9:5,29,41).

Sura 9:39 “If you do not fight, He will punish you severely, and put others in your place”

9:52 “…Allah will send His punishment from Himself or by our hands.”

The Qur’an teaches: Allah has given those that fight with their goods and their persons a higher rank than those who stay at home . . . The unbelievers are your sworn enemies . . . Seek out your enemies relentlessly . . . . You shall not plead for traitors . . . Allah does not love the treacherous or the sinful. (Dawood, Koran, pp. 367-68.)

“. . . kill the pagans wherever you may find them . . .”

Sura 4:74: “Let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of Allah, - whether he is slain or gets victory - soon shall We give him a reward of great value.”

Sura 4:95 “Allah has granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit at home.”

Sura 9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, heal the breasts of the Believers.” Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and Allah will punish, (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame. (Surah 9:14 at-Taubah 9:14)

Sura 9:78-83 “Know they not that Allah doth know their secret (thoughts) and their secret counsels, and that Allah knoweth well all things unseen? Those who slander such of the believers as give themselves freely to (deeds of) charity, as well as such as can find nothing to give except the fruits of their labor, and throw ridicule on them, Allah will throw back their ridicule on them: and they shall have a grievous penalty. 80 Whether thou ask for their forgiveness or not, (their sin is unforgivable): if thou ask seventy times for their forgiveness, Allah will not forgive them: because they have rejected Allah and His apostle; and Allah guideth not those who are perversely rebellious. Those who were left behind (in the Tabuk expedition) rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the apostle of Allah: they hated to strive and fight, with their goods and their persons, in the cause of Allah: they said, “Go not forth in the heat. Say, “The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat.” If only they could understand! Let them laugh a little: much will they weep: a recompense for the (evil) that they do. If, then, Allah bring thee back to any of them, and they ask thy permission to come out (with thee), say: “Never shall ye come out with me, nor fight an enemy with me: for ye preferred to sit inactive on the first occasion: then sit ye (now) with those who lag behind.”

Sura 4:168: “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.”

Sura 9:123: “Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbours, and let them find you rigorous: and know that Allah is with those who fear him.” Hey neighbor how do you feel about this?

Infidels are those who worship any other but Allah. Yet I have heard Muslims claim Allah is the same God of the Old Testament. If so why are not the Jews and Christians accepted? The answer is clear, because they reject their apostle.

Sura 9:29-33: “Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in Allah, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which Allah and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled. The Jews say, 'Ezra (Ozair) is a son of God'; and the Christians say, 'The Messiah is a son of God'. Such the sayings in their mouths! They resemble the sayings of the Infidels of old! Allah do battle with them! How are they misguided!..He it is who hath sent His Apostle with the Guidance and a religion of the truth, that He may make it victorious over every other religion, albeit they who assign partners to Allah be averse from it.”

Mohammed said: “No Muslim should be killed for killing a infidel.”(Hadith vol. 9:50) This means a non- Muslim.

chair
February 21st, 2015, 11:37 PM
The Koran was not written until many years after Mohammad died. The Koran has been changed a number of times by the Mullahs.

Unlike the New Testament, which was written in the time of Jesus, and was never changed or altered in any way.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 02:09 AM
Unlike the New Testament, which was written in the time of Jesus, and was never changed or altered in any way.
Christians are constantly complaining of Catholic tampering. Where have you been? The Hellenistic Jews are also guilty of tampering with scriptures. The disciples began writing the New Testament after Christ's ascension. The difference is that the Koran is a complete fabrication.

chair
February 22nd, 2015, 03:38 AM
Christians are constantly complaining of Catholic tampering. Where have you been? The Hellenistic Jews are also guilty of tampering with scriptures. The disciples began writing the New Testament after Christ's ascension.

Tampering with what? When was the earliest recognized New Testament Canon? Who decided what was in the NT?


The difference is that the Koran is a complete fabrication.
uh-huh

Dennyg1
February 22nd, 2015, 05:18 AM
[B]Allah Islam Mu

And so Mohammed did not know the name of the God of Abraham. What Arabs have forgotten, is that because the Hebrews and Arabs are descendants of Abraham, they both had spoken the same language at one time.
Yes. But that was hundreds, maybe even thousands of years before the story of Abraham was written down


The New Testament scripture of Matthew 22:37 repeat’s Deut. 6:5. If this verse were represented in Hebrew, it would, show YHWH, not Allah as the one you should love as the God of you. The translations clearly show that LORD is a substitute for the word Yahwah.
"Before Islam existed, the name Allah was used by Arab Christians and Jews to refer to the one true god. “As Hebrew and Arabic are closely related Semitic languages, it is commonly accepted that Allah (root, ilāh) and the Biblical Elohim are cognate derivations of same origin, as is Eloah, a Hebrew word which is used (e.g., in the Book of Job) to mean ‘(the) God’ and also ‘god or gods’ as is the case of Elohim. Elohim and Eloah ultimately derive from the root El, ‘strong’, possibly genericized from El (deity), as in the Ugaritic ’lhm (consonants only), meaning ‘children of El’ (the ancient Near Eastern creator god in pre-Abrahamic tradition). In Jewish scripture Elohim is used as a descriptive title for the God of the scriptures whose name is YHWH, as well as for pagan gods."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah


Jesus is reported to have cried out in Aramaic: ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? If Allah was valid, how come Jesus called out in Aramaic "Eloi;" Although those who have translated the Bible into Arabic used Allah as a term for God
I don't understand your confusion. You just explained it. Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Arabic.
"And what about the 10 to 12 million Arab Christians today? They have been calling God ‘Allah’ in their Bibles, hymns, poems, writings, and worship for over nineteen centuries. What an insult to them when we tell them not to use this word ‘Allah’! Instead of bridging the distance between Muslims and Christians, we widen the gulf of separation between them and us when we promote such a doctrine. Those who still insist that it is blasphemy to refer to God as Allah should also consider that Muhammad’s father was named Abd Allah, ‘God’s servant,’ many years before his son was born or Islam was founded!”
—excerpted from Building Bridges by Fouad Accad (Colorado Springs, CO: Navpress), p. 22.


He claims that Elah, a Hebrew Bible name, is the same as ILAH in Arabic. There is just one problem. Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is Elah the name of God. It is the name of a man and the name of an oak tree.
"In the Hebrew Bible there are four words translated "God": El, Elah, Elo'ah, Elohim."
http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/monotheism/context-elohim.html

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 08:10 AM
Unlike the New Testament, which was written in the time of Jesus, and was never changed or altered in any way.

The Jews are well known for altering their own Hebrew scriptures, in the MT recension.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 10:18 AM
Tampering with what? When was the earliest recognized New Testament Canon? Who decided what was in the NT?


uh-huh
The Catholic Church had the last say.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Latin Fathers

The first council that accepted the present Catholic canon (the Canon of Trent) may have been the Synod of Hippo Regius in North Africa (393); the acts of this council, however, are lost. A brief summary of the acts was read at and accepted by the Councils of Carthage in 397 and 419.[28] These councils were under the authority of St. Augustine, who regarded the canon as already closed.[29] Pope Damasus I's Council of Rome in 382, if the Decretum Gelasianum is correctly associated with it, issued a biblical canon identical to that mentioned above,[25] or if not, the list is at least a 6th-century compilation.[30] Likewise, Damasus' commissioning of the Latin Vulgate edition of the Bible, c. 383, was instrumental in the fixation of the canon in the West.[31]

In 405, Pope Innocent I sent a list of the sacred books to a Gallic bishop, Exsuperius of Toulouse. When these bishops and councils spoke on the matter, however, they were not defining something new, but instead "were ratifying what had already become the mind of the Church."[32] Thus, from the 4th century, there existed unanimity in the West concerning the New Testament canon (as it is today),[33] and by the 5th century the East, with a few exceptions, had come to accept the Book of Revelation and thus had come into harmony on the matter of the New Testament canon.[34]

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 10:20 AM
Yes. But that was hundreds, maybe even thousands of years before the story of Abraham was written down


"Before Islam existed, the name Allah was used by Arab Christians and Jews to refer to the one true god. “As Hebrew and Arabic are closely related Semitic languages, it is commonly accepted that Allah (root, ilāh) and the Biblical Elohim are cognate derivations of same origin, as is Eloah, a Hebrew word which is used (e.g., in the Book of Job) to mean ‘(the) God’ and also ‘god or gods’ as is the case of Elohim. Elohim and Eloah ultimately derive from the root El, ‘strong’, possibly genericized from El (deity), as in the Ugaritic ’lhm (consonants only), meaning ‘children of El’ (the ancient Near Eastern creator god in pre-Abrahamic tradition). In Jewish scripture Elohim is used as a descriptive title for the God of the scriptures whose name is YHWH, as well as for pagan gods."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah


I don't understand your confusion. You just explained it. Jesus spoke Aramaic, not Arabic.
"And what about the 10 to 12 million Arab Christians today? They have been calling God ‘Allah’ in their Bibles, hymns, poems, writings, and worship for over nineteen centuries. What an insult to them when we tell them not to use this word ‘Allah’! Instead of bridging the distance between Muslims and Christians, we widen the gulf of separation between them and us when we promote such a doctrine. Those who still insist that it is blasphemy to refer to God as Allah should also consider that Muhammad’s father was named Abd Allah, ‘God’s servant,’ many years before his son was born or Islam was founded!”
—excerpted from Building Bridges by Fouad Accad (Colorado Springs, CO: Navpress), p. 22.


"In the Hebrew Bible there are four words translated "God": El, Elah, Elo'ah, Elohim."
http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/monotheism/context-elohim.html

Allah is not a name or concept of God in the bible, and Yahwah is not in the Koran. It is simple as that.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 10:26 AM
Unlike the New Testament, which was written in the time of Jesus, and was never changed or altered in any way.

Christians who are well studied in scriptures are aware of Pagan corruptions. For example; the worship of Jesus is a basic violation of what is written, and does not agree scripturally. The New Testament scriptures that do not agree with Orthodox Judaism are Pagan corruptions added by the Pagans.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 10:48 AM
Christians who are well studied in scriptures are aware of Pagan corruptions. For example; the worship of Jesus is a basic violation of what is written, and does not agree scripturally. The New Testament scriptures that do not agree with Orthodox Judaism are Pagan corruptions added by the Pagans.

Say what...?

Yahweh came in human form in the OT, and was worshiped as such.

Repentance
February 22nd, 2015, 11:05 AM
Because Yahweh refused to curse the Jews? DO you even understand the status of Jews in the Qur'an?





uh-huh


Were you the one who lamented the level of stupidity and nonsense in these forums?

I sympathize with you.

WonderfulLordJesus
February 22nd, 2015, 11:23 AM
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time... 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Galatians 1

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 14

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:28 AM
Say what...?

Yahweh came in human form in the OT, and was worshiped as such.

The Trinitarian concept was added to scriptures by the Pagans. (The Catholics)

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:33 AM
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time... 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Galatians 1

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 14

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

There are no Christians that deny Christ came in the flesh, only Orthodox Jews do that.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:38 AM
Because Yahweh refused to curse the Jews? DO you even understand the status of Jews in the Qur'an?

Were you the one who lamented the level of stupidity and nonsense in these forums?

I sympathize with you.

Now when Elohiym was in the Kaaba pantheon, there came the King of Moab called Balak; and it was Balak who wanted the prophet Balaam to ask Elohiym to curse the Jews, but Elohiym refused to curse the Jews.

(For more info see Numbers 22 through 24:25 in the bible)

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:48 AM
The Trinitarian concept was added to scriptures by the Pagans. (The Catholics)

No.

Yahweh has always revealed Himself as Triune.

Even the authors of the Koran copied this into their opus.

Where have you been...?

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 11:53 AM
Allah Islam Muslim
Allah is not Yahwah
Allah is a phase of the sun, translation "The Dawn", interpretation: Morning Star or Rising Sun. Allah is the contracted form from Alilah, {Al il ah} and the transliteral is this: The/god/ascends. The reason for the confusion is because the word "Allah" is borrowed from the Chaldean language. It is not an Aramaic word. More than two thousand years ago the Aramaic word for God was El, and "Elah," and “Il” and “Ilah,” which means “God” and “The God."

Note: Aramaic and ancient Hebrew did not use the letter e for a vowel.

As tradition has it, it was Abraham and Ishmael that built the Kaaba as a house for Elohiym, but as time went on other gods were introduced and placed in the Kaaba. Now when Elohiym was in the Kaaba pantheon, there came the King of Moab called Balak; and it was Balak who wanted the prophet Balaam to ask Elohiym to curse the Jews, but Elohiym refused to curse the Jews.

(For more info see Numbers 22 through 24:25 in the bible)

At some point in time afterward, Elohiym, the God of Abraham was cast out of the Kaaba by the Arabic people, and His name was cursed and not to be ever spoken. During that time Chemosh was made the head of the Pantheon in the Kaaba. Chemosh means Highest Power, and is also a phase of the sun at midday; it is Allah who becomes Chemosh at midday.

And so Mohammed did not know the name of the God of Abraham. What Arabs have forgotten, is that because the Hebrews and Arabs are descendants of Abraham, they both had spoken the same language at one time.

The New Testament scripture of Matthew 22:37 repeat’s Deut. 6:5. If this verse were represented in Hebrew, it would, show YHWH, not Allah as the one you should love as the God of you. The translations clearly show that LORD is a substitute for the word Yahwah.

Jesus is reported to have cried out in Aramaic: ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? If Allah was valid, how come Jesus called out in Aramaic "Eloi;" Although those who have translated the Bible into Arabic used Allah as a term for God.

According to The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the definition of Eloi is as follows: Eloi is of Aramaic origin, and is the Aramaic phrase "my God". God has many name titles, but Yahwah is the only "true" personal name of God.

Note: Babylonia, Babylonian: ( Bavili / Babili ) in the Akkadian language of the time, meant "Gate of the gods." Babili, a contracted word for "gate of the gods"; ending in "li", forming a double "LL" sound for the word "gods".

Using Ahmed Deedat's booklet, "What is His Name." On page 25 of Deedat's book, he gives a list of the names of deities in Hebrew, English, and Arabic.

He claims that Elah, a Hebrew Bible name, is the same as ILAH in Arabic. There is just one problem. Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is Elah the name of God. It is the name of a man and the name of an oak tree.
(Pictorial Ency. of the Bible, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI, USA, Vol. 5.)

"Elah" means "gods above" in the old Aramaic. We are grateful to Ahmed Deedat who has helped us identify Allah by admitting that "ILAH" is the root name for Allah.

The complete name of Allah before it is contracted is "AL-ILAH."
(Hitti, Philip, History of The Arabs, London, 1950 , 8 ,) "ILAH" is the masculine root word for Allah, or "god", in Arabic. "AL ILAT" is the feminine resulting in Allat.

Who is God?

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 12:00 PM
Who is God?

Yahwah is the only true God (IL / EL) He is the creator of all that is. Those who are given life immortal are also called gods by Yahwah.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 12:03 PM
No.

Yahweh has always revealed Himself as Triune.

Even the authors of the Koran copied this into their opus.

Where have you been...?

Our scriptures that show a trinity have been corrupted by Gnostics and Pagans. Those notions are not in the original text.

Dennyg1
February 22nd, 2015, 12:59 PM
Agreed.

The best Arabic lexicons prove this out...as the term 'allah' is shown to be derived from the same exact root word as the pagan Arab idols, up to, and including, the great serpent - of which, we know to be Satan, himself.

There are actually Koranic ayat which also paint 'allah' as the devil....along with suras narrated by, and named after, demons!
Elohim has the same pagan roots. In fact El was THE chief Canaanite deity.
"The word Elohim occurs more than 2500 times in the Hebrew Bible, with meanings ranging from "god" in a general sense (as in Exodus 12:12, where it describes "the gods of Egypt"), to a specific god (e.g., 1 Kings 11:33, where it describes Chemosh "the god of Moab", or the frequent references to Yahweh as the "elohim" of Israel), to demons, seraphim, and other supernatural beings, to the spirits of the dead brought up at the behest of King Saul in 1 Samuel 28:13, and even to kings and prophets (e.g., Exodus 4:16).[3] The phrase bene elohim, usually translated "sons of God", has an exact parallel in Ugaritic and Phoenician texts, referring to the council of the gods.[3]"

Elohim translated:

Aramaic: ʼĔlāhā
Syriac: Alaha
Arabic: ʾIlāh

Aramaic was the spoken language of Jesus' region around this time. Syriac, or Middle Aramaic, was the specific dialect used by many Christian churches starting in 100 AD. From 100-300 AD almost all Christians east of modern Lebanon wrote and used this language.

Your confusion is coming from the fact that both Elohim and Allah have different meanings in the Hebrew Bible when subtle changes are made

Elohim capitalized and ʾIlāh [Allah in English] refer to 'the one' God.
elohim and alīha are plural and refer to any other gods, demons, etc.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

Dennyg1
February 22nd, 2015, 01:14 PM
Allah is not a name or concept of God in the bible, and Yahwah is not in the Koran. It is simple as that.

The Arabic Bible has always had 'Allah' in place of 'God'

[Qu'ran 1:1 - English translation]
"In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful."

[Qur'ân 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
"Bismi-Allahi ar-Rahmani, ar-Raheem"


[Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]
"In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth . . . "

[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
"Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . . "

Aramaic was the spoken language of Jesus. It is a near certainty that Jesus used the word Alaha in reference to God, as well as Elohim.
"Jesus, an Aramaic speaker, would naturally use Alaha just as Aramaic speakers do today. It is simply the Aramaic version of the identical Arabic word Allah. “The cognate Aramaic term appears in the Aramaic version of the New Testament, called the Peshitta, as one of the words Jesus used to refer to God, e.g., in the sixth Beatitude, ‘Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see Alaha.’ The Arabic Bible uses the same word in Matt. 5:8, for instance, translated Allah.” [19]"
[19] “Allah,” Wikipedia, 2005, http://www.answers.com/topic/allah, Dec. 9, 2005.

http://www.adeadlymisunderstanding.com/2010/05/is-allah-the-god-of-the-bible-pt-2/

patrick jane
February 22nd, 2015, 01:22 PM
The Trinitarian concept was added to scriptures by the Pagans. (The Catholics)

good job - :Patrol:

Dennyg1
February 22nd, 2015, 01:30 PM
No.

Yahweh has always revealed Himself as Triune.

Even the authors of the Koran copied this into their opus.

Where have you been...?

Muslims think the trinity is blasphemous

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 02:58 PM
Muslims think the trinity is blasphemous

:up:

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 03:06 PM
Yahwah is the only true God (IL / EL) He is the creator of all that is. Those who are given life immortal are also called gods by Yahwah.

I don't ask the name, again who is God? is Yahwah a universal name through out the history of all world?

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 03:09 PM
Our scriptures that show a trinity have been corrupted by Gnostics and Pagans. Those notions are not in the original text.

Isa 54.5

For your Makers (plural) are your husbands (plural); Yahweh of Hosts is His name; and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of all the earth.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 03:13 PM
Elohim has the same pagan roots. In fact El was THE chief Canaanite deity.
"The word Elohim occurs more than 2500 times in the Hebrew Bible, with meanings ranging from "god" in a general sense (as in Exodus 12:12, where it describes "the gods of Egypt"), to a specific god (e.g., 1 Kings 11:33, where it describes Chemosh "the god of Moab", or the frequent references to Yahweh as the "elohim" of Israel), to demons, seraphim, and other supernatural beings, to the spirits of the dead brought up at the behest of King Saul in 1 Samuel 28:13, and even to kings and prophets (e.g., Exodus 4:16).[3] The phrase bene elohim, usually translated "sons of God", has an exact parallel in Ugaritic and Phoenician texts, referring to the council of the gods.[3]"

Elohim translated:

Aramaic: ʼĔlāhā
Syriac: Alaha
Arabic: ʾIlāh

Aramaic was the spoken language of Jesus' region around this time. Syriac, or Middle Aramaic, was the specific dialect used by many Christian churches starting in 100 AD. From 100-300 AD almost all Christians east of modern Lebanon wrote and used this language.

Your confusion is coming from the fact that both Elohim and Allah have different meanings in the Hebrew Bible when subtle changes are made

Elohim capitalized and ʾIlāh [Allah in English] refer to 'the one' God.
elohim and alīha are plural and refer to any other gods, demons, etc.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim



Nope.


אֱלֹהֵינוּ = “Elohim”

“Elohim” definition:

H430 A masculine plural noun. God, gods, judges, angels. This is not a “Plural of Majesty”. A better reason can be seen in scripture itself where, in the very first chapter of Genesis, the necessity of a term conveying both the unity of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found (Gen 1.2, 26). This is further borne out by the fact that the form “Elohim” occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language, not even in Biblical Aramaic. Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

H433 “eloah” Masculine singular noun. God or god. From H410; a deity or the deity: - God, god. See H430.


References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #93c, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 41 - 45
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 54
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 17

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 03:20 PM
The Arabic Bible has always had 'Allah' in place of 'God'
[Qu'ran 1:1 - English translation]
"In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful."

[Qur'ân 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
"Bismi-Allahi ar-Rahmani, ar-Raheem"


[Genesis 1:1 - English Bible - King James Version]
"In the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth . . . "

[Genesis 1:1 - Arabic transliteration]
"Fee al-badi' khalaqa Allahu as-Samaawaat wa al-Ard . . . "

Aramaic was the spoken language of Jesus. It is a near certainty that Jesus used the word Alaha in reference to God, as well as Elohim.
"Jesus, an Aramaic speaker, would naturally use Alaha just as Aramaic speakers do today. It is simply the Aramaic version of the identical Arabic word Allah. “The cognate Aramaic term appears in the Aramaic version of the New Testament, called the Peshitta, as one of the words Jesus used to refer to God, e.g., in the sixth Beatitude, ‘Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see Alaha.’ The Arabic Bible uses the same word in Matt. 5:8, for instance, translated Allah.” [19]"
[19] “Allah,” Wikipedia, 2005, http://www.answers.com/topic/allah, Dec. 9, 2005.

http://www.adeadlymisunderstanding.com/2010/05/is-allah-the-god-of-the-bible-pt-2/


For followers of Islam who think that the “allah” of the Koran is the God of the Holy Bible…



John 3.16

لأَنَّهُ هكَذَا أَحَبَّ اللهُ الْعَالَمَ حَتَّى بَذَلَ ابْنَهُ الْوَحِيدَ، لِكَيْ لاَ يَهْلِكَ كُلُّ مَنْ يُؤْمِنُ بِهِ، بَلْ تَكُونُ لَهُ الْحَيَاةُ الأَبَدِيَّةُ.


John 3.16 For Allah so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 03:21 PM
Muslims think the trinity is blasphemous

The authors of the Koran taught otherwise...

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 03:22 PM
I don't ask the name, again who is God? is Yahwah a universal name through out the history of all world?

If you worship the 'allah', as portrayed in the Koran, then you worship Satan.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 04:40 PM
I don't ask the name, again who is God? is Yahwah a universal name through out the history of all world?

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses

Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”

Yahwah is God's only personal name. Yahwah is the only true God. People who have or will have life immortal in heaven, are called gods also. Life immortal can only be given by Yahwah, the only true God.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 04:46 PM
Isa 54.5

For your Makers (plural) are your husbands (plural); Yahweh of Hosts is His name; and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of all the earth.

Isaiah 54:5. (KJV)
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; (the Lord / Yahwah) of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Yahshua is Yahwah's redemption, making Yahshua our redeemer.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 04:50 PM
(Elohiym / Elohim) is not a name, it is a title. Yahwah has many name titles, and Holy Spirit is one of His name titles. Yahwah is God's only personal name.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 04:55 PM
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time... 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Galatians 1

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

John 14

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

John 14
6 Yahshua said to him, I am the way to the truth and life...

Yahwah is the God of truth, and He is the God of life. Yahshua is the way to Yahwah.

Dennyg1
February 22nd, 2015, 05:07 PM
For followers of Islam who think that the “allah” of the Koran is the God of the Holy Bible…



John 3.16

لأَنَّهُ هكَذَا أَحَبَّ اللهُ الْعَالَمَ حَتَّى بَذَلَ ابْنَهُ الْوَحِيدَ، لِكَيْ لاَ يَهْلِكَ كُلُّ مَنْ يُؤْمِنُ بِهِ، بَلْ تَكُونُ لَهُ الْحَيَاةُ الأَبَدِيَّةُ.


John 3.16 For Allah so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Yes according to the Bible that is correct. It isn't in any other religion though

Dennyg1
February 22nd, 2015, 05:16 PM
(Elohiym / Elohim) is not a name, it is a title. Yahwah has many name titles, and Holy Spirit is one of His name titles. Yahwah is God's only personal name.

II. PERSONAL NAMES OF GOD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

1. 'Elohim

2. 'El

3. 'Eloah

4. 'Adhon, 'Adhonay

5. Yahweh (Yahweh)

6. Tsur (Rock)

7. Ka`dhosh

8. Shadday

http://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/god-names-of.html

Unless you give a source your claims are only your opinions

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 05:21 PM
Isaiah 54:5. (KJV)
5 For thy Maker is thine husband; (the Lord / Yahwah) of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Yahshua is Yahwah's redemption, making Yahshua our redeemer.

Its plural in the Hebrew...

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 05:27 PM
Its plural in the Hebrew...

Yes: The word "YOUR" is plural.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 05:30 PM
II. PERSONAL NAMES OF GOD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

1. 'Elohim

2. 'El

3. 'Eloah

4. 'Adhon, 'Adhonay

5. Yahweh (Yahweh)

6. Tsur (Rock)

7. Ka`dhosh

8. Shadday

http://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/god-names-of.html

Unless you give a source your claims are only your opinions

A name title is not a personal name. Saying that those are His name is not correct. God has only one personal name. "YAHWAH"

Dennyg1
February 22nd, 2015, 05:31 PM
Nope.


אֱלֹהֵינוּ = “Elohim”

“Elohim” definition:

H430 A masculine plural noun. God, gods, judges, angels. This is not a “Plural of Majesty”. A better reason can be seen in scripture itself where, in the very first chapter of Genesis, the necessity of a term conveying both the unity of the one God and yet allowing for a plurality of persons is found (Gen 1.2, 26). This is further borne out by the fact that the form “Elohim” occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language, not even in Biblical Aramaic. Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

H433 “eloah” Masculine singular noun. God or god. From H410; a deity or the deity: - God, god. See H430.


References:
Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament (TWOT) #93c, Harris, Archer, Waltke, volume 1, pp. 41 - 45
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the Old Testament, Warren Baker, Eugene Carpenter, p. 54
The New Strong’s Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible Red-letter Edition, James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., Hebrew and Aramaic dictionary, p. 17

That doesn't contradict anything I said. But since you don't think El has pagan roots I'll detail them more.

"ʾĒl (written aleph-lamed, e.g. Ugaritic: 𐎛𐎍, Phoenician: 𐤋𐤀,[3] Classical Syriac: ܐܠ, Hebrew: אל‎, Arabic: إل‎ or إله, cognate to Akkadian: ilu) is a Northwest Semitic word meaning "god" or "deity" and it is used as the name of major Ancient Near East deities, including the God of the Hebrew Bible.

In the Canaanite religion, or Levantine religion as a whole, El or Il was a god also known as the Father of humanity and all creatures, and the husband of the goddess Asherah as recorded in the clay tablets of Ugarit(modern Ra′s Shamrā—Arabic: رأس شمرا‎, Syria).[4]

The bull was symbolic to El and his son Baʻal Hadad, and they both wore bull horns on their headdress.[5][6][7][8] He may have been a desert god at some point, as the myths say that he had two wives and built a sanctuary with them and his new children in the desert. El had fathered many gods, but most important were Hadad, Yam, and Mot."

"According to The Oxford Companion to World Mythology,

It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the 'God of Abraham'... If El was the high God of Abraham—Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh—Asherah was his wife, and there are archaeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect 'divorced' in the context of emerging Judaism of the 7th century BCE. (See 2 Kings 23:15)".[28]"

This shows where Genesis and Canaanite mythology overlap, proving that both are referring to the same supposed deity:
"The word el (singular) is a standard term for "god" in other related Semitic languages including Ugaritic. The Canaanite pantheon of gods was known as the elohim (the gods [plural]). For instance, in the Ugaritic Baal cycle we read of "seventy sons of Asherah". Each "son of god" was held to be the originating deity for a particular people. (KTU2 1.4.VI.46).[6] A memory of this myth is contained in Genesis, describing the "sons of God" who lay with the "daughters of men". In post-exilic apocrypha these were identified as Nephelim, or fallen angels."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28deity%29

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 06:33 PM
Yes: The word "YOUR" is plural.

‘ō·śa·yiḵ’ (makers) is plural in the Hebrew.

‘ḇō·‘ă·la·yiḵ’ (husbands) is plural in the Hebrew.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 06:35 PM
That doesn't contradict anything I said. But since you don't think El has pagan roots I'll detail them more.

"ʾĒl (written aleph-lamed, e.g. Ugaritic: ����, Phoenician: ����,[3] Classical Syriac: ܐܠ, Hebrew: אל‎, Arabic: إل‎ or إله, cognate to Akkadian: ilu) is a Northwest Semitic word meaning "god" or "deity" and it is used as the name of major Ancient Near East deities, including the God of the Hebrew Bible.

In the Canaanite religion, or Levantine religion as a whole, El or Il was a god also known as the Father of humanity and all creatures, and the husband of the goddess Asherah as recorded in the clay tablets of Ugarit(modern Ra′s Shamrā—Arabic: رأس شمرا‎, Syria).[4]

The bull was symbolic to El and his son Baʻal Hadad, and they both wore bull horns on their headdress.[5][6][7][8] He may have been a desert god at some point, as the myths say that he had two wives and built a sanctuary with them and his new children in the desert. El had fathered many gods, but most important were Hadad, Yam, and Mot."

"According to The Oxford Companion to World Mythology,

It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the 'God of Abraham'... If El was the high God of Abraham—Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh—Asherah was his wife, and there are archaeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect 'divorced' in the context of emerging Judaism of the 7th century BCE. (See 2 Kings 23:15)".[28]"

This shows where Genesis and Canaanite mythology overlap, proving that both are referring to the same supposed deity:
"The word el (singular) is a standard term for "god" in other related Semitic languages including Ugaritic. The Canaanite pantheon of gods was known as the elohim (the gods [plural]). For instance, in the Ugaritic Baal cycle we read of "seventy sons of Asherah". Each "son of god" was held to be the originating deity for a particular people. (KTU2 1.4.VI.46).[6] A memory of this myth is contained in Genesis, describing the "sons of God" who lay with the "daughters of men". In post-exilic apocrypha these were identified as Nephelim, or fallen angels."

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_%28deity%29


And?

Anyone with an internet link and a pulse can edit a wiki page.

Slavishly googling a wiki page for a cut-n-paste reply is not researching the matter.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 06:37 PM
Yahwah reveals His name to Moses

Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”

Yahwah is God's only personal name. Yahwah is the only true God. People who have or will have life immortal in heaven, are called gods also. Life immortal can only be given by Yahwah, the only true God.


Exo 3.14

And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM; and He said, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

Why is 'I AM' repeated three times in that verse...?

OCTOBER23
February 22nd, 2015, 07:14 PM
THE ISLAMIC MOSLEMS DENY JESUS SAYING THAT GOD HAS NO SON .

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 07:27 PM
‘ō·śa·yiḵ’ (makers) is plural in the Hebrew.

‘ḇō·‘ă·la·yiḵ’ (husbands) is plural in the Hebrew.

If those words being used were plural in Hebrew, they would end in "im."

The KJV does not show that those words are plural.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 07:31 PM
THE ISLAMIC MOSLEMS DENY JESUS SAYING THAT GOD HAS NO SON .

They do not read the bible or know what it says. We are sons of God by adoption. The ELECT are heirs to life immortal in Heaven. An immortal being is a god. The word "god" is the name of no one, it is a title and a description.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 07:33 PM
Exo 3.14

And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM; and He said, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.

Why is 'I AM' repeated three times in that verse...?

There is no such word (I AM) in Hebrew. It is a false teaching.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 09:04 PM
If those words being used were plural in Hebrew, they would end in "im."

Not.






The KJV does not show that those words are plural.

That is what Lexicons and grammars are for.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 09:04 PM
There is no such word (I AM) in Hebrew. It is a false teaching.

Then you don't know Hebrew.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 10:27 PM
Not.

That is what Lexicons and grammars are for.


Then you don't know Hebrew.

In Hebrew there is the word "I," but there is no such words as "I am."
"I am" is an interpretation for "I Lived" also here in John 8. I Lived" is the trans-literal.

John 8:58
New International Version (NIV)
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

In Matthew 26 and Mark 14 we have the same story with two different acknowledgements.

Matthew 26
62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"

63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."

64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Mark 14:60
Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"

61. But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"

62. "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Yahshua was asked if he was the messiah, for which he answered, yes.

(HA-YAH / the living) (ASHER / That) (HA-YAH lives)

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=409&pictureid=4782

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 10:30 PM
Yahwah reveals His name to Moses

Exodus 3:13-15.
13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”

Yahwah is God's only personal name. Yahwah is the only true God. People who have or will have life immortal in heaven, are called gods also. Life immortal can only be given by Yahwah, the only true God.

What about people other than Moses and his folk like Joseph, Jacob,Isaac, Abraham, Noah , Adam and all their folks did they know the name of God or how they did call Him??

Suppose a folk who worship Yahwah as the name of the creator, and they believe that Yahwah has five children, What do you call them ?
If i have American name, does this mean that i`m American?

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 10:40 PM
What about people other than Moses and his folk like Joseph, Jacob,Isaac, Abraham, Noah , Adam and all their folks did they know the name of God or how they did call Him??

Exodus 6:3
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name Yahwah I did not make myself fully known to them.

God = IL / EL

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 10:42 PM
THE ISLAMIC MOSLEMS DENY JESUS SAYING THAT GOD HAS NO SON .

:up:

Do you deny that God is Unique?

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 10:45 PM
Exodus 6:3
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name Yahwah I did not make myself fully known to them.

God = IL / EL

If i accept Yahwah as the name of God what is the problem??

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 10:49 PM
What about people other than Moses and his folk like Joseph, Jacob,Isaac, Abraham, Noah , Adam and all their folks did they know the name of God or how they did call Him??

Suppose a folk who worship Yahwah as the name of the creator, and they believe that Yahwah has five children, What do you call them ?
If i have American name, does this mean that i`m American?

Yahwah creates, He does not procreate. We are called His children because we serve Him. Those who do not serve Him are not His children. The name Yahwah is Aramaic as well as Hebrew, it is also the same in English. That is why the Arabs did know that name of God, before they cursed Him for not cursing the Jews. And that is why Mohammad did not know the name of God. If Mohammad was a man of God, he would have known God's name.

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 10:55 PM
Yahwah creates, He does not procreate. We are called His children because we serve Him. Those who do not serve Him are not His children. The name Yahwah is Aramaic as well as Hebrew, it is also the same in English. That is why the Arabs did know that name of God, before they cursed Him for not cursing the Jews. And that is why Mohammad did not know the name of God. If Mohammad was a man of God, he would have known God's name.
The Arabic Jews, Christians and Pagans during the life of Muhammed did call Him as Allah.

what is the meaninig of Yahwah?

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 10:57 PM
Quran17|110|Say (unto mankind): Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficent, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same). His are the most beautiful names. And thou (Muhammad), be not loud voiced in thy worship nor yet silent therein, but follow a way between.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:03 PM
If i accept Yahwah as the name of God what is the problem??

It is not enough to know the personal name of God. Do you keep His moral commands? And what about His seventh day Sabbath? Do you show your love for Him by keeping His Sabbath? And now we are under a New Covenant. Do you believe that Yahshua is Yahwah's messiah? Are you aware that the Koran conflicts with the bible. You can not serve two masters. You can only be one or the other.

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 11:04 PM
Exodus 6:3
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name Yahwah I did not make myself fully known to them.

God = IL / EL
Giving name to God does`nt add anything to the belief/faith.
Q 17|110|Say (unto mankind): Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficent, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same). His are the most beautiful names. And thou (Muhammad), be not loud voiced in thy worship nor yet silent therein, but follow a way between.

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 11:09 PM
It is not enough to know the personal name of God. Do you keep His moral commands? And what about His seventh day Sabbath? Do you show your love for Him by keeping His Sabbath? And now we are under a New Covenant. Do you believe that Yahshua is Yahwah's messiah? Are you aware that the Koran conflicts with the bible. You can not serve two masters. You can only be one or the other.

This is the rituals of Jews that you conflict with them, does Judaism a way to God?

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:10 PM
The Arabic Jews, Christians and Pagans during the life of Muhammed did call Him as Allah.

what is the meaninig of Yahwah?
They were forced to convert at the point of a sword. The Jews and Catholics believe in concealing Gods personal name. I do not hold to that belief.

The name Yahwah means (Life Began) or (Life's Beginning)

drbrumley
February 22nd, 2015, 11:10 PM
Christians can and indeed should use Allah when speaking in Arabic to refer to the God of Bible. However, if we’re speaking in Arabic, we must work hard to make our audience understand that the Allah we’re referring to is revealed to us preeminently in Jesus Christ and is known through the testimony of Scripture.

Is “Allah” God? (http://www.sbts.edu/blogs/2014/12/03/is-allah-god/)

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:13 PM
This is the rituals of Jews that you conflict with them, does Judaism a way to God?

Judaism under the New Covenant is the way the messiah Yahshua preached.

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 11:14 PM
It is not enough to know the personal name of God. Do you keep His moral commands? And what about His seventh day Sabbath? Do you show your love for Him by keeping His Sabbath? And now we are under a New Covenant. Do you believe that Yahshua is Yahwah's messiah? Are you aware that the Koran conflicts with the bible. You can not serve two masters. You can only be one or the other.

You can open a new thread to compare between Both Quran and bible?

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:16 PM
Christians can and indeed should use Allah when speaking in Arabic to refer to the God of Bible. However, if we’re speaking in Arabic, we must work hard to make our audience understand that the Allah we’re referring to is revealed to us preeminently in Jesus Christ and is known through the testimony of Scripture.

Is “Allah” God? (http://www.sbts.edu/blogs/2014/12/03/is-allah-god/)
Allah is the contracted form of Alilah.
Allah is the name of a Pagan god. How far do you think you will get calling on a Pagan god.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:16 PM
In Hebrew there is the word "I," but there is no such words as "I am."

’Eh·yeh' is often rendered as 'I Am' in the Hebrew.






"I am" is an interpretation for "I Lived" also here in John 8. I Lived" is the trans-literal.

John 8:58
New International Version (NIV)
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

In Matthew 26 and Mark 14 we have the same story with two different acknowledgements.

Matthew 26
62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"

63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."

64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Mark 14:60
Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"

61. But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"

62. "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Yahshua was asked if he was the messiah, for which he answered, yes.

(HA-YAH / the living) (ASHER / That) (HA-YAH lives)

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=409&pictureid=4782


Abraham saw Jesus in the OT…


Your father Abraham leaped for joy that he should see My day, and he saw, and rejoiced. Then the Jews said to Him, You do not yet have fifty years, and have You seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came to be, I AM!

(John 8.56 – 58)



Compare…



Gen 15.1 - 7

After these things The Word of Yahweh came to Abram in a vision, saying, Do not fear, Abram; I am your shield, your reward will increase greatly. And Abram said, Lord Yahweh, what will You give to me since I am going childless and the son of the inheritance of my house is Eleazar of Damascus? And Abram said, Behold! You have given no seed to me; and lo, the son of my house is inheriting of me! And behold! The Word of Yahweh came to him saying, This one shall not be inheriting. But he that shall come forth out of your own bowels shall be your heir. And He brought him outside and said, Look now at the heavens and count the stars, if you are able to count them. And He said to him, So shall your seed be. And he believed in Yahweh. And He counted it to him for righteousness. And He said to him, I am Yahweh who caused you to come out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.


Immediately, we can see what it was that made Abraham’s belief in God so special…he believed in The Word of Yahweh (i.e. The Word of God)….i.e. The Second Person of The Trinity, Jesus Christ!

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:19 PM
Quran17|110|Say (unto mankind): Cry unto Allah, or cry unto the Beneficent, unto whichsoever ye cry (it is the same). His are the most beautiful names. And thou (Muhammad), be not loud voiced in thy worship nor yet silent therein, but follow a way between.

Why do you insist on adding words in parenthesis which simply do not appear in the original language...?

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 11:20 PM
Judaism under the New Covenant is the way the messiah Yahshua preached.
I agree with You , but Yahshua died as one of Jews he did not tell any new covenant.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:20 PM
You can open a new thread to compare between Both Quran and bible?

I am not interested in correcting the Koran or the Mullah's. For me, talking about the Koran is like talking about the book of Mormon. It is a lot of work correcting Christians.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:21 PM
This is the rituals of Jews that you conflict with them, does Judaism a way to God?

True worshipers worship The Creator as He has revealed Himself, Triune...

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:22 PM
You can open a new thread to compare between Both Quran and bible?

That's a great idea....then you can see that 99% of the Koran was copied from the Holy Bible...

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 11:23 PM
Why do you insist on adding words in parenthesis which simply do not appear in the original language...?

it is the meaning of Quran, Quran is only one version"Arabic"

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 11:24 PM
That's a great idea....then you can see that 99% of the Koran was copied from the Holy Bible...

Because the Speaker is One.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:25 PM
it is the meaning of Quran, Quran is only one version"Arabic"

'Muhammad' never appears in the Arabic of that ayah....so why put it in parenthesis...?

Etc, etc, etc...

You are abrogating your scriptures when you do this...

chair
February 22nd, 2015, 11:27 PM
The Jews are well known for altering their own Hebrew scriptures, in the MT recension.

It is convenient, when making a baseless statement, to say "it is well-known". It sounds so authoritative.

egyptianmuslim
February 22nd, 2015, 11:28 PM
Sorry, i`m going to my private. See you in a Good health.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:28 PM
Because the Speaker is One.

No.

Its because the authors that penned your Koran were early Arab Christians.

The Koran never claims to be divinely inspired, thus, we should not expect that it is.

It is, however, a paraphrased rendition of the Holy Bible, set to rhyme, and out of order.

Thus...the Holy Bible is required to correct and clarify the Koran in ALL manner of things.

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:28 PM
I agree with You , but Yahshua died as one of Jews he did not tell any new covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. ( Israel the nation, and Judah the faithful.)

Jeremiah 31:32
It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

Zechariah 2:11
“Many nations will be joined with the Lord in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you.


Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 14:24
“This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them.

Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:30 PM
It is convenient, when making a baseless statement, to say "it is well-known". It sounds so authoritative.

Ok...I should say that its well known amongst Biblical scholars.

I would expect Jews to be ignorant to this fact...just like Muslims are ignorant to the fact that their Koran was copied from the Holy Bible, etc, etc...

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:31 PM
Sorry, i`m going to my private. See you in a Good health.

Cheers, bro...

CherubRam
February 22nd, 2015, 11:33 PM
True worshipers worship The Creator as He has revealed Himself, Triune...

Why don't you start your own thread about the Trinity.

Apple7
February 22nd, 2015, 11:38 PM
Why don't you start your own thread about the Trinity.

There are so many Trinity threads already.

It fits-in more on an 'as needed' basis....like in your thread.

It actually fits very well...as we have a whole corral of Trinity-deniers here...like yourself....the muslims....the jews...

About the only thing that we have in common is that it revolves around Jesus.

You all have horribly mis-interpreted scripture.

Only Orthodox Trinitarian Christians have properly interpreted the scriptures...and Yahweh only saves the ones who worship Him as He has revealed Himself, triune.

Repentance
February 23rd, 2015, 01:29 AM
So sad...you'll can even agree who is God. Is he triune or is he One?

Pathetic.

And then you come criticise "Allah".

What's in a name, anyway? Allah is the Arabic word for the supreme God.

But hey, you should also start a thread about the etymology of the word "God"...lol, who knows - it may have once being used for a pagan supreme God.

Oh no, the Hindus used the word "God" for their Godhead!

CherubRam
February 23rd, 2015, 01:49 AM
So sad...you'll can even agree who is God. Is he triune or is he One?

Pathetic.

And then you come criticise "Allah".

What's in a name, anyway? Allah is the Arabic word for the supreme God.

But hey, you should also start a thread about the etymology of the word "God"...lol, who knows - it may have once being used for a pagan supreme God.

Oh no, the Hindus used the word "God" for their Godhead!

Do not pay any attention to him, he does not know what he is talking about. Trinitarianism is not in the original bible text.

egyptianmuslim
February 23rd, 2015, 05:14 AM
They were forced to convert at the point of a sword. The Jews and Catholics believe in concealing Gods personal name. I do not hold to that belief.

Before Prophecy of Mohammed, Pagans knew the difference between Allah and and their idols

39|3|Surely Pure religion is for Allah only. And those who choose protecting friends beside Him (say): We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. Lo! Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Lo! Allah guideth not him who is a liar, an ingrate.


The name Yahwah means (Life Began) or (Life's Beginning)
Elah means "the thing that we love and follow it", i can say "money is his elah"

25|43|Hast thou seen him who chooseth for his god his own lust? Wouldst thou then be guardian over him?

-------------


Allah is the contracted form of Alilah.
Allah is the name of a Pagan god. How far do you think you will get calling on a Pagan god.
No, Allah"the Creator of the heavens and earth" is the Arabic name of God and was known to all Arabs"Jews, Christians, and Pagans"
29|61|And if thou(Mohammed) wert to ask them( Pagans ): Who created the heavens and the earth, and constrained the sun and the moon (to their appointed work)? they would say: Allah. How then are they turned away?

--------------


True worshipers worship The Creator as He has revealed Himself, Triune...
As you like

---------------


'Muhammad' never appears in the Arabic of that ayah....so why put it in parenthesis...?

Etc, etc, etc...

You are abrogating your scriptures when you do this...


English version is not Quran it is meanings of Quran.

If Quran says "tell them" it translated as "(Oh Mohammed) tell them(believers/ pagans/...or...)
--------------------

chair
February 23rd, 2015, 05:31 AM
Ok...I should say that its well known amongst Biblical scholars.

I would expect Jews to be ignorant to this fact...just like Muslims are ignorant to the fact that their Koran was copied from the Holy Bible, etc, etc...

Sources, then.

chrysostom
February 23rd, 2015, 05:54 AM
Sources, then.

this book

In the Shadow of the Sword (http://www.amazon.com/In-Shadow-Sword-Global-Empire/dp/0307473651)

questions the origins of the koran

Dennyg1
February 23rd, 2015, 08:41 AM
Allah is the contracted form of Alilah.
Allah is the name of a Pagan god. How far do you think you will get calling on a Pagan god.

Elohim and Allah have the EXACT same Canaanite ties. They're the same.

Jesus spoke Aramaic. Alaha is God in Aramaic. Did Jesus not know God?

Dennyg1
February 23rd, 2015, 08:42 AM
Ok...I should say that its well known amongst Biblical scholars.

I would expect Jews to be ignorant to this fact...just like Muslims are ignorant to the fact that their Koran was copied from the Holy Bible, etc, etc...

Do you think that the Bible is unaltered?

Dennyg1
February 23rd, 2015, 08:48 AM
So sad...you'll can even agree who is God. Is he triune or is he One?

Pathetic.

And then you come criticise "Allah".

What's in a name, anyway? Allah is the Arabic word for the supreme God.

But hey, you should also start a thread about the etymology of the word "God"...lol, who knows - it may have once being used for a pagan supreme God.

Oh no, the Hindus used the word "God" for their Godhead!

It's very hypocritical for English Christians to say God is more reliable than Allah as a name.

God comes from:
Hebrew (YHWH) to Greek (Theos) to Hindu (khooda) to Persian (khoda) to Germanic (Gott) and Scandinavian (Gud).......
Then finally to God

CherubRam
February 23rd, 2015, 09:10 AM
Va-roooommm! :bang:

chair
February 23rd, 2015, 10:50 AM
this book

In the Shadow of the Sword (http://www.amazon.com/In-Shadow-Sword-Global-Empire/dp/0307473651)

questions the origins of the koran

I was referring to something that Apple said:

The Jews are well known for altering their own Hebrew scriptures, in the MT recension.

I asked for sources on this. "Well-known" and a remark about "Biblical Scholars"- implying that I am ignorant- is not the same as real evidence (which is what I would expect from a Biblical Scholar).

There is little doubt that there are textual difficulties in the Hebrew Bible, and that there are errors that have crept in. I am also aware that MT is not identical to the Septuagint. However, Apple seems to be implying that the Jews have deliberately changed the Bible in order to hide or downplay something. I am rather curious as to how one could even know this to be true.

I suppose that we will find out soon.

CherubRam
February 23rd, 2015, 07:56 PM
Genesis 16:12. New International Version


He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers."

Apple7
February 23rd, 2015, 09:47 PM
So sad...you'll can even agree who is God. Is he triune or is he One?

The Biblical God is One Triune God.

The Koranic 'allah' is the devil, himself....dressed-up to look like the true Biblical God, Jesus Christ.

Apple7
February 23rd, 2015, 09:48 PM
Do not pay any attention to him, he does not know what he is talking about. Trinitarianism is not in the original bible text.

Moses was Trinitarian.

Apple7
February 23rd, 2015, 09:51 PM
Before Prophecy of Mohammed, Pagans knew the difference between Allah and and their idols

39|3|Surely Pure religion is for Allah only. And those who choose protecting friends beside Him (say): We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. Lo! Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Lo! Allah guideth not him who is a liar, an ingrate.




لو أراد الله أن يتخذ ولدا لاصطفى مما يخلق ما
يشاء سبحنه هو الله الوحد القهار خلق السموت والأرض بالحق يكور اليل على النهار ويكور النهار على اليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري لأجل مسمى ألا هو العزيز الغفر

Law arada Allahu an yattakhitha waladan laistafa mimma yakhluqu ma yashao subhanahu huwa Allahu alwahidu alqahharu khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda bialhaqqi yukawwiru allayla AAala alnnahari wayukawwiru alnnahara AAala allayli wasakhkhara alshshamsa waalqamara kullun yajree li-ajalin musamman ala huwa alAAazeezu alghaffaru

Although “allah” he intended that he takes a son; he has not chosen from that which he creates, (but) what he wills, glory be to him, he, allah”, the one, the supreme. He created the heavens and the earth through The Truth. He causes to revolve the night onto the day, and He causes to revolve the day onto the night, and He made subservient the sun and the moon, each pursues its course to a fixed and appointed term, is He not the all-mighty, the most protecting one? (39.4 – 5)

Apple7
February 23rd, 2015, 09:56 PM
English version is not Quran it is meanings of Quran.

If Quran says "tell them" it translated as "(Oh Mohammed) tell them(believers/ pagans/...or...)
--------------------


Modern-day scholars actually prefer to render Koranic Arabic into English because of the detail in the English language.

The Islamic polemic that the Koran can only be understood in Arabic is a pathetic excuse for denying critical analysis...as 80% of muslims don't even know the first thing about Arabic in the first place!

Apple7
February 23rd, 2015, 10:11 PM
Sources, then.

The MT is a recension to begin with.

A recension, as you know, is an alteration of the original text into a new standard.

It was at this time that diacritical markings were added to the text and obvious manipulation of the text took place as compared to its much, much older reference, the LXX.

The vast amount of Hebrew plurals which existed could not all be covered-up by the Unitarian Jews of the time....and so then invented the term 'plural of majesty' to somehow explain how a single God could repeatedly be described in the plural....and, during the Gen 1 creation, they perform scriptural gymnastics, and invoke the angels as being part of the discussion to cover the obvious plurality.

One elementary example in Gen 2.18, reads as thus in the MT recension:

...I will make'...

The LXX, in the same verse, has:

'Let Us make (plural verb) him a helper suitable for him'.


On and on and on it goes....Jews attempting to make a Trinitarian text into a Unitarian one.

Apple7
February 23rd, 2015, 10:14 PM
Elohim and Allah have the EXACT same Canaanite ties. They're the same.

Jesus spoke Aramaic. Alaha is God in Aramaic. Did Jesus not know God?

The NT is recorded in Greek.

Apple7
February 23rd, 2015, 10:15 PM
Do you think that the Bible is unaltered?

The original doctrine is intact.

chair
February 23rd, 2015, 10:58 PM
Modern-day scholars actually prefer to render Koranic Arabic into English because of the detail in the English language.



This is absurd. Any scholar worth his salt tries to read texts in their original language. And, even assuming that English has more detail ( I do not know Arabic, but I doubt that this is true), then the added detail available in the translation would be interpretation- not what the detail-poor text actually said.

chair
February 24th, 2015, 01:12 AM
The MT is a recension to begin with.

A recension, as you know, is an alteration of the original text into a new standard.

It was at this time that diacritical markings were added to the text and obvious manipulation of the text took place as compared to its much, much older reference, the LXX.

The vast amount of Hebrew plurals which existed could not all be covered-up by the Unitarian Jews of the time....and so then invented the term 'plural of majesty' to somehow explain how a single God could repeatedly be described in the plural....and, during the Gen 1 creation, they perform scriptural gymnastics, and invoke the angels as being part of the discussion to cover the obvious plurality.

One elementary example in Gen 2.18, reads as thus in the MT recension:

...I will make'...

The LXX, in the same verse, has:

'Let Us make (plural verb) him a helper suitable for him'.


On and on and on it goes....Jews attempting to make a Trinitarian text into a Unitarian one.

1. You forgot to say "as is well-known" when making this series of baseless assertions.
2. You know many big words. You may want to check what the word "sources" means in a dictionary.
3. Though some later interpretation does explain the text of Genesis 1:26 in terms of angels, this is not done by changing the text.
4. If they were so keen to hide the true trinitarian nature of the text- why did they neglect to change Genesis 1:26?

CherubRam
February 24th, 2015, 04:33 AM
The MT is a recension to begin with.

A recension, as you know, is an alteration of the original text into a new standard.

It was at this time that diacritical markings were added to the text and obvious manipulation of the text took place as compared to its much, much older reference, the LXX.

The vast amount of Hebrew plurals which existed could not all be covered-up by the Unitarian Jews of the time....and so then invented the term 'plural of majesty' to somehow explain how a single God could repeatedly be described in the plural....and, during the Gen 1 creation, they perform scriptural gymnastics, and invoke the angels as being part of the discussion to cover the obvious plurality.

One elementary example in Gen 2.18, reads as thus in the MT recension:

...I will make'...

The LXX, in the same verse, has:

'Let Us make (plural verb) him a helper suitable for him'.


On and on and on it goes....Jews attempting to make a Trinitarian text into a Unitarian one.

Royal or Majestic "we" in Hebrew

The "Let us" in Genesis1:26, can be easily explained by the following example:

I see a group of children sitting and I tell them, "Let us play soccer!"

It is I who did the talking to an audience.

And Genesis 1:27 clarifies immediately by saying, "And God created man in His image"

Thus, it is still Yahwah who is Elohiym, who created man.

CherubRam
February 24th, 2015, 04:41 AM
(Elohiym / Elohim) (Hebrew: אֱלֹהִים) A plural name title does not make a plural being. If a woman is named Trinity, does that make her three times a lady? All of the Trinity proofs are based upon falsehoods.

Dennyg1
February 24th, 2015, 04:56 AM
The NT is recorded in Greek.

No duh. Jesus spoke Aramaic. He didn't say 'God.' He said 'Alaha'

Dennyg1
February 24th, 2015, 04:59 AM
Modern-day scholars actually prefer to render Koranic Arabic into English because of the detail in the English language.

The Islamic polemic that the Koran can only be understood in Arabic is a pathetic excuse for denying critical analysis...as 80% of muslims don't even know the first thing about Arabic in the first place!

Wow......everything here is wrong. You've graduated to Stripe level

CherubRam
February 24th, 2015, 08:05 AM
No duh. Jesus spoke Aramaic. He didn't say 'God.' He said 'Alaha'

Are you mentally ill?

Apple7
February 24th, 2015, 08:33 AM
This is absurd. Any scholar worth his salt tries to read texts in their original language. And, even assuming that English has more detail ( I do not know Arabic, but I doubt that this is true), then the added detail available in the translation would be interpretation- not what the detail-poor text actually said.

Key word...'tries'...

Fact is, Koranic Arabic, like Biblical Hebrew, are extinct languages....and the only way to bring out the true original meanings is to render the original languages into a language that has far more detail than the original.

I have studied Koranic Arabic for the better part of 20 years, and this is most definitely the case...

Apple7
February 24th, 2015, 08:36 AM
1. You forgot to say "as is well-known" when making this series of baseless assertions.
2. You know many big words. You may want to check what the word "sources" means in a dictionary.
3. Though some later interpretation does explain the text of Genesis 1:26 in terms of angels, this is not done by changing the text.
4. If they were so keen to hide the true trinitarian nature of the text- why did they neglect to change Genesis 1:26?


The sources are the LXX & the MT, side by side.

Most Trinitarian Hebrew scriptures remain intact, but many have not...and then the unitarian Jews are left to invent an excuse...

Apple7
February 24th, 2015, 08:39 AM
Royal or Majestic "we" in Hebrew

The "Let us" in Genesis1:26, can be easily explained by the following example:

I see a group of children sitting and I tell them, "Let us play soccer!"

It is I who did the talking to an audience.


Plural of Majesty NEVER existed in the Ancient Near East (ANE).





And Genesis 1:27 clarifies immediately by saying, "And God created man in His image"

Thus, it is still Yahwah who is Elohiym, who created man.

Gen 1.27 confirms the Trinity via 'bara', 'bara', 'bara'......study up!

Apple7
February 24th, 2015, 08:40 AM
No duh. Jesus spoke Aramaic. He didn't say 'God.' He said 'Alaha'

Jesus spoke many languages.

Dennyg1
February 24th, 2015, 09:44 AM
Jesus spoke many languages.

This is true.


Are you mentally ill?

How is my statement incorrect?

Repentance
February 24th, 2015, 10:38 AM
The Biblical God is One Triune God.

The Koranic 'allah' is the devil, himself....dressed-up to look like the true Biblical God, Jesus Christ.

Allah = God of the Torah

Give me at least one way in which he differs from the God of the Jews of old. Plural could be used when referring to angels along with Him, so that's out.


Moses was Trinitarian.

Lol. Nope he was more - you forgot about the fire in the bush. That's another incarnation of God.

Moses was a pure monotheist just like Abraham was. He is far above what you speak of him. God is 1 and 1 is 1.

egyptianmuslim
February 24th, 2015, 11:15 AM
Ok...I should say that its well known amongst Biblical scholars.

I would expect Jews to be ignorant to this fact...just like Muslims are ignorant to the fact that their Koran was copied from the Holy Bible, etc, etc...

There is a great agreement between Quran and Torah but Quran is`nt a copy of Torah.

egyptianmuslim
February 24th, 2015, 11:16 AM
this book

In the Shadow of the Sword (http://www.amazon.com/In-Shadow-Sword-Global-Empire/dp/0307473651)

questions the origins of the koran

The same origin of Torah

Dennyg1
February 24th, 2015, 11:17 AM
There is a great agreement between Quran and Torah but Quran is`nt a copy of Torah.

Isn't it amazing how the ones who yell the loudest are the most uninformed on the subject?

chair
February 24th, 2015, 12:38 PM
....and the only way to bring out the true original meanings is to render the original languages into a language that has far more detail than the original.

How does one do this rendering into a more detailed language? Who brings out the "true original meanings"?

egyptianmuslim
February 24th, 2015, 01:49 PM
The Biblical God is One Triune God.

The Koranic 'allah' is the devil, himself....dressed-up to look like the true Biblical God, Jesus Christ.

How?
....................
How can you assert that a man follows devil?

Dennyg1
February 24th, 2015, 01:51 PM
How?
....................
How can you assert that a man follows devil?

I think Apple jumped in with both feet on this thread without fact checking

Repentance
February 24th, 2015, 02:09 PM
I think Apple jumped in with both feet on this thread without fact checking



Claims to have studied Qur'anic Arabic for 20 years...lmao

CherubRam
February 24th, 2015, 02:15 PM
Using Ahmed Deedat's booklet, "What is His Name." On page 25 of Deedat's book, he gives a list of the names of deities in Hebrew, English, and Arabic.

He claims that Elah, a Hebrew Bible name, is the same as ILAH in Arabic. There is just one problem. Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is Elah the name of God. It is the name of a man and the name of an oak tree.
(Pictorial Ency. of the Bible, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI, USA, Vol. 5.)
There is no contracted form of God's name, as Deedat claims, in the Old Testament of the Hebrew Bible.

Also, this Allah of Islam is not Elah of the Bible, unless Allah was the son of Esau named Elah (Genesis 36:41) nor was Allah one of the kings of Israel? (I King 16:6-8,13-14).

Deedat and the Mullahs claim that "Alah" is used by Dr. C.I. Scofield to clarify the origin and meaning of Elohiym.
The note cited is in the footnote of the Scofield Reference Bible, King James Version, under Genesis 1:1.

Deedat claims Alah and Elah are variations of the same Hebrew word. But "Alah" is the word for an oath or vow, while Elah is the name of a man, a valley, or an oak.
Dr. Scofield says that "EL" is combined with "ALAH" to give the name of God, which is in error, because the two words do not contract into Elohiym, as any primary student can see!

ALAH" is a plain Hebrew word, not a contraction as with "Allah" of Islam which comes from AL ILah," and thus the double "LL". The Hebrew language has no relationship linguistically to the Allah in Arabic and the Koran. Also, there is no record in the history of the Hebrew language that "ALAH" is part of the concept of "EL" or "Elohiym." This is why the revised edition of the Scofield Reference Bible omitted the note on "ALAH."

CherubRam
February 24th, 2015, 02:18 PM
I noticed that I have to keep repeating myself because people are not reading what I write. If that is not true, then they are not able to remember one minute after what they read.

egyptianmuslim
February 24th, 2015, 02:26 PM
Moses was Trinitarian.


Modern-day scholars actually prefer to render Koranic Arabic into English because of the detail in the English language.

The Islamic polemic that the Koran can only be understood in Arabic is a pathetic excuse for denying critical analysis...as 80% of muslims don't even know the first thing about Arabic in the first place!


Key word...'tries'...

Fact is, Koranic Arabic, like Biblical Hebrew, are extinct languages....and the only way to bring out the true original meanings is to render the original languages into a language that has far more detail than the original.

I have studied Koranic Arabic for the better part of 20 years, and this is most definitely the case...

Ah, have you sleep well?

..............


لو أراد الله أن يتخذ ولدا لاصطفى مما يخلق ما
يشاء سبحنه هو الله الوحد القهار خلق السموت والأرض بالحق يكور اليل على النهار ويكور النهار على اليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري لأجل مسمى ألا هو العزيز الغفر

Law arada Allahu an yattakhitha waladan laistafa mimma yakhluqu ma yashao subhanahu huwa Allahu alwahidu alqahharu khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda bialhaqqi yukawwiru allayla AAala alnnahari wayukawwiru alnnahara AAala allayli wasakhkhara alshshamsa waalqamara kullun yajree li-ajalin musamman ala huwa alAAazeezu alghaffaru

Although “allah” he intended that he takes a son; he has not chosen from that which he creates, (but) what he wills, glory be to him, he, allah”, the one, the supreme. He created the heavens and the earth through The Truth. He causes to revolve the night onto the day, and He causes to revolve the day onto the night, and He made subservient the sun and the moon, each pursues its course to a fixed and appointed term, is He not the all-mighty, the most protecting one? (39.4 – 5)

Do`nt modify the meaning of the verse 39|4|

39|4|If Allah had willed to choose a son, he could have chosen what he would of that which He hath created. Be He glorified! He is Allah, the One, the Absolute.



Isn't it amazing how the ones who yell the loudest are the most uninformed on the subject?

It is a phobia



I think Apple jumped in with both feet on this thread without fact checking
His mode of life needs checking

Dennyg1
February 24th, 2015, 02:43 PM
Using Ahmed Deedat's booklet, "What is His Name." On page 25 of Deedat's book, he gives a list of the names of deities in Hebrew, English, and Arabic.

He claims that Elah, a Hebrew Bible name, is the same as ILAH in Arabic. There is just one problem. Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is Elah the name of God. It is the name of a man and the name of an oak tree.
(Pictorial Ency. of the Bible, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI, USA, Vol. 5.)
There is no contracted form of God's name, as Deedat claims, in the Old Testament of the Hebrew Bible.

Also, this Allah of Islam is not Elah of the Bible, unless Allah was the son of Esau named Elah (Genesis 36:41) nor was Allah one of the kings of Israel? (I King 16:6-8,13-14).

Deedat and the Mullahs claim that "Alah" is used by Dr. C.I. Scofield to clarify the origin and meaning of Elohiym.
The note cited is in the footnote of the Scofield Reference Bible, King James Version, under Genesis 1:1.

Not so fast my friend. Elah is Aramaic, and it DOES appear in the Tanakh books of Ezra, Daniel, and Jeremiah.

(i) אלה ישׂראל (Elah Yisrael), God of Israel (Ezra 5:1)
(ii) אלה ירושׁלם (Elah Yerushelem), God of Jerusalem (Ezra 7:19)
(iii) אלה שׁמיא (Elah Shemaya), God of Heaven (Ezra 7:23)
(iv) אלה אבהתי (Elah-avahati), God of my fathers, (Daniel 2:23)
(v) אלה אלהין (Elah Elahin), God of gods (Daniel 2:47)

http://biblicalhebrew.org/hebrew-names-of-god-in-the-bible.aspx

The Allah-El relationship has been answered repeatedly already. The KJV that you are using for translation was published in 1611 AD, just 400 years ago. The OT was directly translated from Hebrew and Aramaic, but these two languages are very dissimilar to English. It is for this reason that the Germanic 'Gott' is where the English 'God' comes from.


Elohim translated:

Aramaic: ʼĔlāhā
Syriac: Alaha
Arabic: ʾIlāh

Aramaic was the spoken language of Jesus' region around this time. Syriac, or Middle Aramaic, was the specific dialect used by many Christian churches starting in 100 AD. From 100-300 AD almost all Christians east of modern Lebanon wrote and used this language.

chair
February 24th, 2015, 03:06 PM
Claims to have studied Qur'anic Arabic for 20 years...lmao

and then insists that it is better to study it in English...

egyptianmuslim
February 24th, 2015, 03:47 PM
I noticed that I have to keep repeating myself because people are not reading what I write. If that is not true, then they are not able to remember one minute after what they read.
Pharaoh in the following verse believe in God what is his religion?was he one of Pagans?
Genesis 41:38
And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?

Apple7
February 24th, 2015, 10:14 PM
Allah = God of the Torah

Give me at least one way in which he differs from the God of the Jews of old. Plural could be used when referring to angels along with Him, so that's out.





Knowing that your god ‘allah’ is ‘rabbi alAAalameena’ (i.e. lord of the jinn – which are demons) as declared in the opening chapter of the Koran, as thus…


الحمد لله رب العلمين

Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

1.2 The praise (be) to ‘allah’, the lord of the jinn, and of mankind.



And….knowing that the lord of the demons is Satan….Please explain how it is that your god ‘allah’ is also proclaimed to be an idol, as thus…



قل أئنكم لتكفرون بالذي خلق الأرض في يومين وتجعلون له أندادا ذلك رب العلمين

Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena

41.9 Say: "Truly you denied with whom he created the earth in two days, and you truly set up his idols, this, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind?

Seems your very own book of faith is declaring that if you worship the ‘allah’ of the Koran then you are actually worshipping an idol of the devil.


We can easily see that chapter 41 was copied from previous Biblical material and converted into Arabic, as the Koran was supposedly oral during this time and did not contain verses nor was it in book form, as described below in the chapter introduction…

The Revelation from the most gracious, the merciful. A Book, its verses detailed, an Arabic collection to a nation they know. Bearer of good tidings and warner, so most of them He turned away, so they do not hear. (41.2 – 4)


Again, at the end of the same chapter we read that the Book of Revelation is an excellent book which separates truth from falsehood….


Truly who disbelieved with the account when it came to them, and truly it is an excellent Book. He does not come to him with the falsehood from between his two hands, and nor from after him; The Revelation is from one who possesses quality which discriminates between truth and falsehood and is free from doubt, praiseworthy. (41.41 – 42)



Simply more evidence that you need to study your book of faith and listen to it when it declares that it copied itself from the Holy Bible and that the god ‘allah’ that you worship is nothing more than an idol of Satan!

egyptianmuslim
February 25th, 2015, 11:25 AM
Go to bed....is more better for you.

Dennyg1
February 25th, 2015, 07:14 PM
Knowing that your god ‘allah’ is ‘rabbi alAAalameena’ (i.e. lord of the jinn – which are demons) as declared in the opening chapter of the Koran, as thus…


الحمد لله رب العلمين

Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

ARABIC

A Translate.com Guest asked:

الحمد لله رب العالمين

ENGLISHTranslate.com Guest was given:

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds


قل أئنكم لتكفرون بالذي خلق الأرض في يومين وتجعلون له أندادا ذلك رب العلمين

Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena

41.9 Say: "Truly you denied with whom he created the earth in two days, and you truly set up his idols, this, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind?

Seems your very own book of faith is declaring that if you worship the ‘allah’ of the Koran then you are actually worshipping an idol of the devil.

قل أئنكم لتكفرون بالذي خلق الأرض في يومين وتجعلون له أندادا ذلك رب العالمين
Translation: Say Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.

You didn't even get the full verse in Arabic here



Simply more evidence that you need to study your book of faith and listen to it when it declares that it copied itself from the Holy Bible and that the god ‘allah’ that you worship is nothing more than an idol of Satan!

No. But it is more examples of you lying to try and promote your stupid opinions

Apple7
February 25th, 2015, 09:22 PM
Lol. Nope he was more - you forgot about the fire in the bush. That's another incarnation of God.





Is Jesus quoting God the Father in Mark 12:26?

Mark 12:26...

But concerning the dead, that they are raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, as God spoke to him at the Bush, saying, "I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob"?


No.

He is quoting Himself, God the Son, as thus…



Exodus 3.1 - 6

And Moses was feeding the flock of his father-in-law Jethro, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock behind the wilderness and came to the mountain of The Gods, to Horeb. And Malek Yahweh appeared to him in a flame of fire from the middle of a thorn bush. And he looked, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, and the thorn bush was not burned up! And Moses said, I will turn aside now and see this great sight, why the thorn bush is not burned up. And Yahweh saw that he turned aside to see, and Elohim called to him from the midst of the thorn bush, and said, Moses! Moses! And he said, Behold me. And He said, Do not come near here. Pull off your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground. And He said, I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he feared to look upon The Gods.


These verses tell us plainly that Moses both saw and spoke with Malek Yahweh (i.e. God the Son) in the midst of the fire.

Observe that the Triune God occupies the Mount (Moses came to the mountain of all The Gods ‘Ha- Elohim’), as the terms Yahweh, Elohim, Malek Yahweh & Ha- Elohim (literally all The Gods!) are used interchangeably.

Who occupied the burning bush?

• Malek Yahweh
• Yahweh
• Elohim
• The Gods (Ha Elohim)




That Malek Yahweh is actually Yahweh, and that Moses spoke to Malek Yahweh, is proven in these verses, as thus…



Deut 4.15 - 19

Therefore you shall carefully watch over your souls, for you have not seen any likeness in the day Yahweh spoke to you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire, that you not deal corruptly, and make for yourselves a graven image, a likeness of any figure, the form of a male or female, the form of any animal in the earth; the form of any winged bird that flies in the heavens; the form of any creeping thing on the ground; the form of any fish in the waters under the earth; and that you not lift up your eyes towards the heavens and shall see the sun, and the heavens, and you be drawn away and worship them, and serve them; which Yahweh Elohim has allotted to all the peoples under all the heavens.




It really should not come as any surprise that Moses saw and spoke to The Son, as the NT also records that Abraham did likewise…


John 8.56 – 58

Your father Abraham leaped for joy that he should see My day, and he saw, and rejoiced.Then the Jews said to Him, You do not yet have fifty years, and have You seen Abraham?Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came to be, I AM!

Apple7
February 25th, 2015, 09:24 PM
Moses was a pure monotheist just like Abraham was. He is far above what you speak of him. God is 1 and 1 is 1.


You don't know the first thing about scripture.

Best you stay clear before you hurt yourself...

Apple7
February 25th, 2015, 09:26 PM
There is a great agreement between Quran and Torah but Quran is`nt a copy of Torah.


The Koran is >75% Biblical Book of Revelation material, all by itself...

Apple7
February 25th, 2015, 09:27 PM
How does one do this rendering into a more detailed language? Who brings out the "true original meanings"?

Through exegesis...

Apple7
February 25th, 2015, 09:28 PM
How?
....................
How can you assert that a man follows devil?


The authors of the Koran are rather explicit that the god 'allah' is an imposter dressed-up to mimic the true Biblical God, Jesus Christ.

Apple7
February 25th, 2015, 09:33 PM
[
Do`nt modify the meaning of the verse 39|4|

39|4|If Allah had willed to choose a son, he could have chosen what he would of that which He hath created. Be He glorified! He is Allah, the One, the Absolute.





Even your googled English rendering does NOT deny The Son!


Clinic time...


Glory be to Him the uncreated Son




39.4


لو أراد الله أن يتخذ ولدا لاصطفى مما يخلق ما
يشاء سبحنه هو الله الوحد القهار

Law arada Allahu an yattakhitha waladan laistafa mimma yakhluqu ma yashao subhanahu huwa Allahu alwahidu alqahharu

39.4 Although “allah” he intended that he takes a Son; he has not chosen from that which he creates, (but) what he wills, glory be to Him; he, allah”, the one, the supreme.



39.4 is yet another clear Arabic ayah that boldly proclaims that Jesus is the Son.

In fact, it is stated that “he intended” (“arada” – completed action) that he takes (“yattakhitha”) a Son.

The stipulation being that the Son does not come from anything that is created (“yakhluqu”).

This should sound extremely familiar, as it proclaims that the Son (i.e. Jesus Christ) is uncreated!

A Son that has always existed.


Further, the very next ayah, 39.5, point-blank tells us that the Son is Jesus Christ as thus…


خلق السموت والأرض بالحق يكور اليل على النهار ويكور النهار على اليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري لأجل مسمى ألا هو العزيز الغفر

Khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda bialhaqqi yukawwiru allayla AAala alnnahari wayukawwiru alnnahara AAala allayli wasakhkhara alshshamsa waalqamara kullun yajree li-ajalin musamman ala huwa alAAazeezu alghaffaru

39.5 He created the heavens and the earth through 'The Truth'. He causes to revolve the night onto the day, and He causes to revolve the day onto the night, and He made subservient the sun and the moon, each pursues its course to a fixed and appointed term, is He not the all-mighty, the most protecting one?


This ayah tells us that “allah” created the known Universe with the help of ‘The Truth’.

It is already a very well established fact that ‘The Truth’ is repeatedly mentioned as a deity attribute of Jesus Christ in both the Holy Bible as well as the Koran.

Now…once again… “allah” is shown to be in need of assistance in creating the Universe.


The assistance of the Son.

Apple7
February 25th, 2015, 09:36 PM
and then insists that it is better to study it in English...


You would be the only one making that assertion.

You cannot make a proper rendering if the original language is not studied.

Come on...

intojoy
February 25th, 2015, 09:37 PM
So what. You know full well what it means now.

White devil

intojoy
February 25th, 2015, 09:38 PM
Go to bed....is more better for you.

Yeshua saves my friend. Allah kills

Apple7
February 25th, 2015, 09:39 PM
ARABIC

A Translate.com Guest asked:

الحمد لله رب العالمين

ENGLISHTranslate.com Guest was given:

Praise be to Allah, Lord of the worlds



قل أئنكم لتكفرون بالذي خلق الأرض في يومين وتجعلون له أندادا ذلك رب العالمين
Translation: Say Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.

You didn't even get the full verse in Arabic here




No. But it is more examples of you lying to try and promote your stupid opinions


Another nascent newb!

How many times do I have to tell you wannabe muslims that you CANNOT translate the extinct Koranic Arabic of your book of faith through an online modern Arabic translator!

Show some respect for both yourself and your Koran.

Dennyg1
February 25th, 2015, 11:25 PM
and then insists that it is better to study it in English...

You would be the only one making that assertion.


Modern-day scholars actually prefer to render Koranic Arabic into English because of the detail in the English language.

chair
February 25th, 2015, 11:33 PM
Through exegesis...

I was going to answer in detail, but you are not worth the bother

JosephR
February 25th, 2015, 11:35 PM
I was going to answer in detail, but you are not worth the bother

I would love to hear it chair.. I hold your knowledge and opinion in high regard.

Dennyg1
February 26th, 2015, 12:05 AM
Since my correct translations of your lies didnt meet your lofty standards, here is the direct Quranic text:




Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

1.2 The praise (be) to ‘allah’, the lord of the jinn, and of mankind.
Nope. You're a dingus

Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

1:2 (Asad) All praise is due to God alone, the Sustainer of all the worlds,


And….knowing that the lord of the demons is Satan….Please explain how it is that your god ‘allah’ is also proclaimed to be an idol, as thus…

Qul a-innakum latakfuroona biallathee khalaqa al-arda fee yawmayni watajAAaloona lahu andadan thalika rabbu alAAalameena

41.9 Say: "Truly you denied with whom he created the earth in two days, and you truly set up his idols, this, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind?
Again, no. You're just an even bigger dingus

Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. 41:9

Why do some Christians lie to try and spread bigotry?

Post a link to EVEN JUST ONE source that says the Quran says what you claim it does.

CherubRam
February 26th, 2015, 05:15 AM
Did you guys even read page one?

Dennyg1
February 26th, 2015, 06:16 AM
Did you guys even read page one?

I read it. What hasn't been addressed?

Apple7
February 26th, 2015, 08:22 PM
Since my correct translations of your lies didnt meet your lofty standards, here is the direct Quranic text:


Nope. You're a dingus

Alhamdu lillahi rabbi alAAalameena

1:2 (Asad) All praise is due to God alone, the Sustainer of all the worlds,


Again, no. You're just an even bigger dingus

Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. 41:9

Why do some Christians lie to try and spread bigotry?

Post a link to EVEN JUST ONE source that says the Quran says what you claim it does.


Your god has the 'mark' on him...

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Bismi Allahi alrrahmani alrraheemi

1.1 With the mark of “allah”, the merciful, the ever merciful.

egyptianmuslim
February 26th, 2015, 10:47 PM
The Koran is >75% Biblical Book of Revelation material, all by itself...
Not Revelation
Quran repeats many events of Torah but not identical, also something about the life of Jesus and Mary also not identical to that of Gospel of Jesus.

egyptianmuslim
February 26th, 2015, 10:49 PM
The authors of the Koran are rather explicit that the god 'allah' is an imposter dressed-up to mimic the true Biblical God, Jesus Christ.
Not true

egyptianmuslim
February 26th, 2015, 10:53 PM
Even your googled English rendering does NOT deny The Son!


Clinic time...


Glory be to Him the uncreated Son




39.4


لو أراد الله أن يتخذ ولدا لاصطفى مما يخلق ما
يشاء سبحنه هو الله الوحد القهار

Law arada Allahu an yattakhitha waladan laistafa mimma yakhluqu ma yashao subhanahu huwa Allahu alwahidu alqahharu

39.4 Although “allah” he intended that he takes a Son; he has not chosen from that which he creates, (but) what he wills, glory be to Him; he, allah”, the one, the supreme.



39.4 is yet another clear Arabic ayah that boldly proclaims that Jesus is the Son.

In fact, it is stated that “he intended” (“arada” – completed action) that he takes (“yattakhitha”) a Son.

The stipulation being that the Son does not come from anything that is created (“yakhluqu”).

This should sound extremely familiar, as it proclaims that the Son (i.e. Jesus Christ) is uncreated!

A Son that has always existed.


Further, the very next ayah, 39.5, point-blank tells us that the Son is Jesus Christ as thus…


خلق السموت والأرض بالحق يكور اليل على النهار ويكور النهار على اليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري لأجل مسمى ألا هو العزيز الغفر

Khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda bialhaqqi yukawwiru allayla AAala alnnahari wayukawwiru alnnahara AAala allayli wasakhkhara alshshamsa waalqamara kullun yajree li-ajalin musamman ala huwa alAAazeezu alghaffaru

39.5 He created the heavens and the earth through 'The Truth'. He causes to revolve the night onto the day, and He causes to revolve the day onto the night, and He made subservient the sun and the moon, each pursues its course to a fixed and appointed term, is He not the all-mighty, the most protecting one?


This ayah tells us that “allah” created the known Universe with the help of ‘The Truth’.

It is already a very well established fact that ‘The Truth’ is repeatedly mentioned as a deity attribute of Jesus Christ in both the Holy Bible as well as the Koran.

Now…once again… “allah” is shown to be in need of assistance in creating the Universe.


The assistance of the Son.

Usually modify the meanings of Quran .....,remember that the members of the TOL are not sheeps

patrick jane
February 26th, 2015, 11:05 PM
Usually modify the meanings of Quran .....,remember that the members of the TOL are not sheeps

:Patrol:

MichaelCadry
February 26th, 2015, 11:19 PM
Dear egyptianmuslim,

I think the problem is that God LOVES Israel and it is written over and over in the scriptures that Israel shall have her same borders in the latter years. Now the God/Allah you worship does not love Israel. You have tons of land for the Arabs, but one small strip of land, you begrudge the Israeli people. It's not that I'm trying to be prejudice or anything. I have a cousin in Egypt. My grandparents on my father's side were from Beirut, Lebanon. So, I got named Michael, instead of Mohammed, by my mother's insistence. She also told my dad that we would be raised as Christians and he agreed. Anything to please the woman he loves. Don't even ask me about my mom's ancestry!! Anyway, this is why we don't think that our God/Christian and Israel, is the same god as your Allah!!

Assalaamu Aleikum,

Michael

egyptianmuslim
February 26th, 2015, 11:39 PM
:Patrol:



:o

Repentance
February 27th, 2015, 12:17 AM
Dear egyptianmuslim,

I think the problem is that God LOVES Israel and it is written over and over in the scriptures that Israel shall have her same borders in the latter years. Now the God/Allah you worship does not love Israel. You have tons of land for the Arabs, but one small strip of land, you begrudge the Israeli people. It's not that I'm trying to be prejudice or anything. I have a cousin in Egypt. My grandparents on my father's side were from Beirut, Lebanon. So, I got named Michael, instead of Mohammed, by my mother's insistence. She also told my dad that we would be raised as Christians and he agreed. Anything to please the woman he loves. Don't even ask me about my mom's ancestry!! Anyway, this is why we don't think that our God/Christian and Israel, is the same god as your Allah!!

Assalaamu Aleikum,

Michael




Allah promises the "blessed land" to the Jews in the End Times, according to the Qur'an. Allah has now fulfilled that promise - both the one in the Qur'an and in the Tanach. That's doesn't mean that Israel is holy and pious and that they are in the right side - this is a common misunderstanding of the Christian Zionists. Anti-Christs have been promised but we shouldn't bow down to the them, should we? Why should we submit to the will of a rogue state, a state that continues to break international law?

egyptianmuslim
February 27th, 2015, 03:51 PM
Dear egyptianmuslim,

I think the problem is that God LOVES Israel and it is written over and over in the scriptures that Israel shall have her same borders in the latter years. Now the God/Allah you worship does not love Israel. You have tons of land for the Arabs, but one small strip of land, you begrudge the Israeli people. It's not that I'm trying to be prejudice or anything. I have a cousin in Egypt. My grandparents on my father's side were from Beirut, Lebanon. So, I got named Michael, instead of Mohammed, by my mother's insistence. She also told my dad that we would be raised as Christians and he agreed. Anything to please the woman he loves. Don't even ask me about my mom's ancestry!! Anyway, this is why we don't think that our God/Christian and Israel, is the same god as your Allah!!

Assalaamu Aleikum,

Michael

Assalaamu Aleikum,
There is only one God who is Unique and Above description. Pure monotheism is the religion of God

3|64|Say: O People of the Scripture. Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partners unto Him and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).

bybee
February 27th, 2015, 03:55 PM
Assalaamu Aleikum,
There is only one God who is Unique and Above description. Pure monotheism is the religion of God

3|64|Say: O People of the Scripture. Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partners unto Him and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).

"Praise Him! Praise Him all ye little children.
God is Love. God is Love.
That is the difference between thee and me. I worship the Almighty God of creation who Loves me and thee.

intojoy
February 27th, 2015, 10:57 PM
Hebrew Scriptures written by 40 different authors over 1600 years.
Koran written by one man

No comparison

Koran
Book of Mormon
Etc etc

The Hebrew Scriptures stand alone.

CherubRam
February 28th, 2015, 01:24 AM
Assalaamu Aleikum,
There is only one God who is Unique and Above description. Pure monotheism is the religion of God

3|64|Say: O People of the Scripture. Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partners unto Him and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).

Allah was a Pagan god before Mohammad lived. There is nothing to change that. Yahwah is not in the Koran, and Allah is not a concept of God in the bible. Do you not see the problem?

Simon Baker
February 28th, 2015, 01:49 AM
Assalaamu Aleikum,
There is only one God who is Unique and Above description. Pure monotheism is the religion of God

3|64|Say: O People of the Scripture. Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partners unto Him and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him).

Our Lord And Savior Jesus Christ Almighty God, Forgive Them

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 04:33 AM
Allah was a Pagan god before Mohammad lived. There is nothing to change that. Yahwah is not in the Koran, and Allah is not a concept of God in the bible. Do you not see the problem?

This has been pointed out many times by others already, but the pagan roots are the Canaan god El, which is where the El of Judaism comes from and also Allah. Elohim and Allah have the same origin

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 01:31 PM
This has been pointed out many times by others already, but the pagan roots are the Canaan god El, which is where the El of Judaism comes from and also Allah. Elohim and Allah have the same origin

You were already banned.

Changing your nic does not fool anyone.

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 01:34 PM
You were already banned.

Changing your nic does not fool anyone.

I've made no attempt to hide. And you mistake my getting banned as affirmation of your edited verses. No matter what my name is, what you're doing is wrong. And worse still, I can't see what positive result can come from comvincing anyone of your fallacies

CherubRam
February 28th, 2015, 01:38 PM
This has been pointed out many times by others already, but the pagan roots are the Canaan god El, which is where the El of Judaism comes from and also Allah. Elohim and Allah have the same origin

IL and EL is the NAME of no one. They are titles. Allah is the contraction of Alilah. Al / il / ah Alilah was the morning sun. The Hebrew word Allah is not related to Allah of the Koran.

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 03:19 PM
IL and EL is the NAME of no one. They are titles. Allah is the contraction of Alilah. Al / il / ah Alilah was the morning sun. The Hebrew word Allah is not related to Allah of the Koran.

Last time I'm posting this. Read it and quit spreading purposeless bigotry.

Elohim has the same pagan roots. In fact El was THE chief Canaanite deity.
"The word Elohim occurs more than 2500 times in the Hebrew Bible, with meanings ranging from "god" in a general sense (as in Exodus 12:12, where it describes "the gods of Egypt"), to a specific god (e.g., 1 Kings 11:33, where it describes Chemosh "the god of Moab", or the frequent references to Yahweh as the "elohim" of Israel), to demons, seraphim, and other supernatural beings, to the spirits of the dead brought up at the behest of King Saul in 1 Samuel 28:13, and even to kings and prophets (e.g., Exodus 4:16).[3] The phrase bene elohim, usually translated "sons of God", has an exact parallel in Ugaritic and Phoenician texts, referring to the council of the gods.[3]"

Elohim translated:

Aramaic: ʼĔlāhā
Syriac: Alaha
Arabic: ʾIlāh

Aramaic was the spoken language of Jesus' region around this time. Syriac, or Middle Aramaic, was the specific dialect used by many Christian churches starting in 100 AD. From 100-300 AD almost all Christians east of modern Lebanon wrote and used this language.

Your confusion is coming from the fact that both Elohim and Allah have different meanings in the Hebrew Bible when subtle changes are made

Elohim capitalized and ʾIlāh [Allah in English] refer to 'the one' God.
elohim and alīha are plural and refer to any other gods, demons, etc.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

CherubRam
February 28th, 2015, 04:11 PM
Last time I'm posting this. Read it and quit spreading purposeless bigotry.

Ilah is Aramaic for "The god." Il is Aramaic for "god." Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic did not use e for a vowel. Allah in Hebrew is not a related word to the Allah in the Koran. The reason for the confusion is because the word "Allah" is borrowed from the (Chaldean / Babylonian) language. Again, the Hebrew Allah is not related to the Babylonian Allah, which is contracted from Alilah.

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 07:51 PM
I've made no attempt to hide. And you mistake my getting banned as affirmation of your edited verses. No matter what my name is, what you're doing is wrong. And worse still, I can't see what positive result can come from comvincing anyone of your fallacies

Most bans are temporary to begin with....couldn't you wait...?

Further, the exegesis behind my correct renderings is completely verifiable by anyone willing to do so.

But...as we can plainly see, most followers of islam, such as yourself, are completely inept at defending their own book of faith...as all of your training goes into pathetic polemics launched against Christianity and the Holy Bible, and not into exegetically defending the Arabic.

Just face it.....you don't have what it takes to exegetically refute my assertions regarding your Koran.

No follower of islam does.

Period.

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 08:07 PM
Most bans are temporary to begin with....couldn't you wait...?

Further, the exegesis behind my correct renderings is completely verifiable by anyone willing to do so.

But...as we can plainly see, most followers of islam, such as yourself, are completely inept at defending their own book of faith...as all of your training goes into pathetic polemics launched against Christianity and the Holy Bible, and not into exegetically defending the Arabic.

Just face it.....you don't have what it takes to exegetically refute my assertions regarding your Koran.

No follower of islam does.

Period.

What Apple7 claimed the Quran says:
1.2 The praise (be) to ‘allah’, the lord of the jinn, and of mankind.

What the Quran actually says:
1:2 (Asad) All praise is due to God alone, the Sustainer of all the worlds,

What Apple7 claimed the Quran says:
41.9 Say: Truly you denied with whom he created the earth in two days, and you truly set up his idols, this, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind?

What the Quran actually says:
Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. 41:9

Post a link to EVEN JUST ONE source that says the Quran says what you claim it does.

Until you do that you are a proven liar and Hell is waiting for you

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 08:19 PM
What Apple7 claimed the Quran says:
1.2 The praise (be) to ‘allah’, the lord of the jinn, and of mankind.

What the Quran actually says:
1:2 (Asad) All praise is due to God alone, the Sustainer of all the worlds,

What Apple7 claimed the Quran says:
41.9 Say: Truly you denied with whom he created the earth in two days, and you truly set up his idols, this, the Lord of the jinn, and of mankind?

What the Quran actually says:
Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds. 41:9

Post a link to EVEN JUST ONE source that says the Quran says what you claim it does.

Until you do that you are a proven liar and Hell is waiting for you


Rather than hiding behind someone else's rendering.....show us the Arabic word rendered as....'the sustainer of all the worlds'....

OCTOBER23
February 28th, 2015, 08:28 PM
GOD WILL DESTROY ALL THE BAD MOON WORSHIPING MOSLEMS !!!
=========================================

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 09:38 PM
Ilah is Aramaic for "The god." Il is Aramaic for "god." Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic did not use e for a vowel. Allah in Hebrew is not a related word to the Allah in the Koran. The reason for the confusion is because the word "Allah" is borrowed from the (Chaldean / Babylonian) language. Again, the Hebrew Allah is not related to the Babylonian Allah, which is contracted from Alilah.

No. Elaha is Aramaic. Ilah is old Arabic. If Ilah was okay when you falsely believed it to be Aramaic, then it should be okay now

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 09:51 PM
Rather than hiding behind someone else's rendering.....show us the Arabic word rendered as....'the sustainer of all the worlds'....

The literal translation is "lord of worlds."

You claimed it said, "lord of the jinn."

Which is closest?


Run as fast as you like. Your lies will catch you

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 10:00 PM
The literal translation is "lord of worlds."

You claimed it said, "lord of the jinn."

Which is closest?


Run as fast as you like. Your lies will catch you




Here's the revealing classic lexical definition that sets the pace for the rest of your book of faith...

رب العلمين = “rabbi alAAalameena”

“rabbi alAAalameena” definition:

The Lord of the jinn, or genii, and of mankind: the Lord of all created beings.

It comes from the root “alama”, which means to mark, sign, and distinguish. He knew it; or he was, or became, acquainted with it; or he knew it truly, or certainly. He knew a thing intuitively and inferentially. He marked it. He, a man, had a fissure in his upper lip; or in one of its two sides. Knowledge.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume five, pp. 2138 - 2142
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 383 - 385

Occurrences of “rabbi alAAalameena” in the Koran: 34

Locations: 1.2, 5.28, 6.45, 6.162, 7.54, 7.61, 7.67, 7.104, 10.10, 10.37, 26.16, 26.23, 26.77, 26.98, 26.109, 26.127, 26.145, 26.164, 26.180, 26.192, 27.8, 27.44, 28.30, 32.2, 37.182, 39.75, 40.64, 40.65, 41.9, 43.46, 45.36, 56.80, 59.16, 69.43, 81.29


Thus, the ancient (and apparently forgotten!) primary meaning pertains to your god "allah" as emanating from the god satan - as we already acknowledge that satan (iblis), is the leader of the demonic jinns - so is he also referenced quite plainly as your god "allah", as well.

This really comes as no great surprise to Christians, as all throughout the Koran, the "allah" of the Koran is frantically attempting to cloak himself with the Biblical deity previously ascribed unto the Biblical Lord Jesus Christ.

It must, however, cut Muslims to the heart...

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 10:20 PM
Here's the revealing classic lexical definition that sets the pace for the rest of your book of faith...

رب العلمين = “rabbi alAAalameena”

“rabbi alAAalameena” definition:

The Lord of the jinn, or genii, and of mankind: the Lord of all created beings.

It comes from the root “alama”, which means to mark, sign, and distinguish. He knew it; or he was, or became, acquainted with it; or he knew it truly, or certainly. He knew a thing intuitively and inferentially. He marked it. He, a man, had a fissure in his upper lip; or in one of its two sides. Knowledge.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume five, pp. 2138 - 2142
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 383 - 385

Occurrences of “rabbi alAAalameena” in the Koran: 34

Locations: 1.2, 5.28, 6.45, 6.162, 7.54, 7.61, 7.67, 7.104, 10.10, 10.37, 26.16, 26.23, 26.77, 26.98, 26.109, 26.127, 26.145, 26.164, 26.180, 26.192, 27.8, 27.44, 28.30, 32.2, 37.182, 39.75, 40.64, 40.65, 41.9, 43.46, 45.36, 56.80, 59.16, 69.43, 81.29


Thus, the ancient (and apparently forgotten!) primary meaning pertains to your god "allah" as emanating from the god satan - as we already acknowledge that satan (iblis), is the leader of the demonic jinns - so is he also referenced quite plainly as your god "allah", as well.

This really comes as no great surprise to Christians, as all throughout the Koran, the "allah" of the Koran is frantically attempting to cloak himself with the Biblical deity previously ascribed unto the Biblical Lord Jesus Christ.

It must, however, cut Muslims to the heart...

First off, I am not Muslim. But more importantly, you corrected your earlier translation

Earlier you claimed it to say, "lord of the jinn" incorrectly.

Now you have it as, "the lord of the jinn and of mankind: the lord of all created beings."

It's good that you FINALLY posted a credible translation. And it is clearly stated that Allah is the "lord of all created beings." That includes jinn.

Does God not have dominion over Satan? As I have said this whole time, everything points to God and Allah as the same.


Here are several more translations by Quranic Theologians:

Translation - English - Dr. M. Muhsin Khan / Dr. M. Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali
He is the Ever Living, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), so invoke Him making your worship pure for Him Alone (by worshipping Him Alone, and none else, and by doing righteous deeds sincerely for Allah's sake only, and not to show off, and not to set up rivals with Him in worship). All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).(65)

Translation - English - Pickthall
He is the Living One. There is no Allah save Him. So pray unto Him, making religion pure for Him (only). Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!(65)

Translation - English - Sahih International
He is the Ever-Living; there is no deity except Him, so call upon Him, sincere to Him in religion. [All] praise is [due] to Allah, Lord of the worlds.(65)

Translation - English - Yusuf Ali
He is the Living (One): There is no god but He: Call upon Him, giving Him sincere devotion. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!(65)

http://muflihun.com/40/65?tid=8123&tid2=60&tid3=8100&tid4=59&tafid=8165&wrd=1&triid=63

[B]The first translation is nearly identical to your own. It's clear that Allah and God both are lord over all created beings.

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 10:26 PM
First off, I am not Muslim.

And the Pope is not Catholic...





But more importantly, you corrected your earlier translation

Earlier you claimed it to say, "lord of the jinn" incorrectly.

Now you have it as, "the lord of the jinn and of mankind: the lord of all created beings."

It's good that you FINALLY posted a credible translation. And it is clearly stated that Allah is the "lord of all created beings." That includes jinn.

The classic definition has not changed.

The primary definition has always been lord of the jinn....of which, are demons.

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 10:29 PM
Does God not have dominion over Satan? As I have said this whole time, everything points to God and Allah as the same.



What are we to think of a book of faith that opens with the statement to worship the Devil – and then ends with a chapter entitled “Hell”…in which the writer literally screams out in a plea for help?


Observe the formula set forth in the second to last chapter of the Koran, aptly named “Hell”…


قل أعوذ برب الفلق

Qul aAAoothu birabbi alfalaqi

113.1 Say: "I seek refuge from Hell's Lord."



This same exact formula is carried over into the final chapter of the Koran…


قل أعوذ برب الناس

Qul aAAoothu birabbi alnnasi

114.1 Say: "I seek refuge from the people's lord."


In context…

114.1-6 Say: "I seek refuge from the people's lord, the people’s king, the people’s god, from the evil whisperer, the devil, whom he whispers in the people's heart, from the jinn and the people.


Sura 114 lists-out the things that the writer seeks refuge from:

• From the people’s lord
• From the people’s king
• From the people’s god (lower case…“allah”)
• From the evil whisperer, the devil
• From the jinn (demons)
• And from the people, themselves




All of these things listed in these ayat are the evil things, from which, refuge is sought.

Now…

What kind of a book of faith is this?

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 10:34 PM
Here are several more translations by Quranic Theologians:

Translation - English - Dr. M. Muhsin Khan / Dr. M. Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali
He is the Ever Living, La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), so invoke Him making your worship pure for Him Alone (by worshipping Him Alone, and none else, and by doing righteous deeds sincerely for Allah's sake only, and not to show off, and not to set up rivals with Him in worship). All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).(65)

Translation - English - Pickthall
He is the Living One. There is no Allah save Him. So pray unto Him, making religion pure for Him (only). Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!(65)

Translation - English - Sahih International
He is the Ever-Living; there is no deity except Him, so call upon Him, sincere to Him in religion. [All] praise is [due] to Allah, Lord of the worlds.(65)

Translation - English - Yusuf Ali
He is the Living (One): There is no god but He: Call upon Him, giving Him sincere devotion. Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds!(65)

http://muflihun.com/40/65?tid=8123&tid2=60&tid3=8100&tid4=59&tafid=8165&wrd=1&triid=63

[B]The first translation is nearly identical to your own. It's clear that Allah and God both are lord over all created beings.


Do they supply a tafsir....?

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 10:36 PM
And the Pope is not Catholic...

More than a few here have told me that he's the anti-christ, so take it up with them.

Unless there's a Protestant Methodist sect of Islam, I don't count



The classic definition has not changed.

The primary definition has always been lord of the jinn....of which, are demons.

No it hasn't. The primary definition is, as YOU put in your last post:

The Lord of the jinn, or genii, and of mankind: the Lord of all created beings.

You don't get to pick the one part of the three and stand it alone by itself. That removes necessary context.

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 10:45 PM
More than a few here have told me that he's the anti-christ, so take it up with them.

Unless there's a Protestant Methodist sect of Islam, I don't count

Methodists are inherently protestant...if you were one, then you not have to mention 'protestant' in the first place....again showing that you are a follower of islam.




No it hasn't. The primary definition is, as YOU put in your last post:

Nope.

The definition has not changed.

Perhaps, in your rage, you are just now taking the time to actually read it...for the first time...






You don't get to pick the one part of the three and stand it alone by itself. That removes necessary context.

Then you agree with my definition.

Not that you could produce one on your own, that is...

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 10:57 PM
What are we to think of a book of faith that opens with the statement to worship the Devil – and then ends with a chapter entitled “Hell”…in which the writer literally screams out in a plea for help?


Observe the formula set forth in the second to last chapter of the Koran, aptly named “Hell”…


قل أعوذ برب الفلق

Qul aAAoothu birabbi alfalaqi

113.1 Say: "I seek refuge from Hell's Lord."



This same exact formula is carried over into the final chapter of the Koran…


قل أعوذ برب الناس

Qul aAAoothu birabbi alnnasi

114.1 Say: "I seek refuge from the people's lord."


In context…

114.1-6 Say: "I seek refuge from the people's lord, the people’s king, the people’s god, from the evil whisperer, the devil, whom he whispers in the people's heart, from the jinn and the people.


Sura 114 lists-out the things that the writer seeks refuge from:

• From the people’s lord
• From the people’s king
• From the people’s god (lower case…“allah”)
• From the evil whisperer, the devil
• From the jinn (demons)
• And from the people, themselves




All of these things listed in these ayat are the evil things, from which, refuge is sought.

Now…

What kind of a book of faith is this?

As I've never heard this before I'll have to research it before answering either way. I'll do this now.

However, I must know what good you think is being achieved by purposefully manipulating words to paint a false picture of God in the Quran. As I'm sure you know, people who agree with your anti-Islam worldview don't check facts for themselves. You are purposefully spreading hate speech via corruption of a holy book's text.

Would you be okay with someone using John 12:31 in the same manner?

"31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world [Satan] will be driven out."

This is just one of several Biblical references to Satan as having dominion over Earth.

Every religion, and every book of such age, will have flaws and textual contradictions. Remember that every time you point out what you see as another faith's folly, they can just as easily find folly with yours

Hate begets hate. And only Satan wins

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 11:08 PM
As I've never heard this before I'll have to research it before answering either way. I'll do this now.

Seems that everything that I state is the first that you have heard of it.....yes?

Take your time...




However, I must know what good you think is being achieved by purposefully manipulating words to paint a false picture of God in the Quran. As I'm sure you know, people who agree with your anti-Islam worldview don't check facts for themselves. You are purposefully spreading hate speech via corruption of a holy book's text.

Everything that I state can be verified by those wishing to do so.

However, most people fall into the willfully ignorant category, such as yourself, and can only express their rage and disapproval....of which, cannot alter the facts...





Would you be okay with someone using John 12:31 in the same manner?

"31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world [Satan] will be driven out."

This is just one of several Biblical references to Satan as having dominion over Earth.


Actually, Satan is stated to be the lower-case 'theos' of the world in scripture....and, so what?

What matters for you, is that this lower-case god is the one that you personally worship.






Every religion, and every book of such age, will have flaws and textual contradictions. Remember that every time you point out what you see as another faith's folly, they can just as easily find folly with yours

Hate begets hate. And only Satan wins


Dig up more of the Islamic propaganda if you think that it helps-out your agenda...

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 11:15 PM
Methodists are inherently protestant...if you were one, then you not have to mention 'protestant' in the first place....again showing that you are a follower of islam.

It was an attempt at making obvious the differences between Methodism and Islam. However it makes no difference to me whether you believe me or not. All that matters is that I have shown you to be a bigot, a liar, a perverter of truth, and one who will knowingly lead others down a false path to satisfy his own sinful hatred of anyone different.

I'll pray for you. You'll need it.


Nope.

The definition has not changed.

Perhaps, in your rage, you are just now taking the time to actually read it...for the first time...

Then you agree with my definition.

Not that you could produce one on your own, that is...

No I do not have an Arabic translator on hand, which would call into question your charge of me being Muslim, but I digress.

I agree with the translation that Allah is "lord of jinn and mankind: lord of all created beings."

Although the translation by two Professors of Arabic Language and Muslim Theology differs from yours slightly: "Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin [mankind, jinn, and all that exists]".......

.....it is close enough in meaning and obviously shows that Allah is lord over not only the jinn, but lord of ALL of creation

Apple7
February 28th, 2015, 11:37 PM
It was an attempt at making obvious the differences between Methodism and Islam. However it makes no difference to me whether you believe me or not. All that matters is that I have shown you to be a bigot, a liar, a perverter of truth, and one who will knowingly lead others down a false path to satisfy his own sinful hatred of anyone different.

The only thing that you have amply demonstrated is scriptural ignorance.




I'll pray for you. You'll need it.

Pray to whom, and for what, exactly...?





No I do not have an Arabic translator on hand, which would call into question your charge of me being Muslim, but I digress.

How would an Arabic translator have any bearing upon you being a muslim...?





I agree with the translation that Allah is "lord of jinn and mankind: lord of all created beings."

Do you really have any choice?





Although the translation by two Professors of Arabic Language and Muslim Theology differs from yours slightly: "Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin [mankind, jinn, and all that exists]".......

.....it is close enough in meaning and obviously shows that Allah is lord over not only the jinn, but lord of ALL of creation

Now that you have agreed with my supplied definition...plug it into context...

1God4all
February 28th, 2015, 11:56 PM
Seems that everything that I state is the first that you have heard of it.....yes?
The "your god is pagan" nonsense is used by Christians who point to Allah as false, and by Muslims who point to Elohim as false. Both are right and both are wrong, as I've covered numerous times already.

The fact that Muslims use your same argument about the Canaanite sun god against you should tell you something.

Of course, that it should doesn't always mean that it will. Denying enlightenment is foolish but also your right.


However, most people fall into the willfully ignorant category, such as yourself, and can only express their rage and disapproval....of which, cannot alter the facts...
I am the only one of us two who seeks answers without preconceived notions. You are 100% correct that I don't alter facts. I only wish I could say the same of you.

If it comforts you to imagine me as a furious Muslim then be my guest. It's no concern of mine if you believe my stated personal religion. And it certainly delights me to hear you continually reference anger. You clearly are projecting your own emotions, and I would hope that you'd be so angry you'll never blatantly lie again.


Actually, Satan is stated to be the lower-case 'theos' of the world in scripture....and, so what?
So what? Nothing to me. But you are claiming that Islam worships Satan because Allah is "lord of all created beings," the idiocy of such a claim being obvious.

And the idiocy grows when you consider that the Quran never says such things AND that Satan is "prince of this world" according to the Bible. The uncultured Christian's hypocrisy again rears its ugly head.


Everything that I state can be verified by those wishing to do so.
Which, even with your near constant refusal to give sources, I've been doing. And the results I come back with, my sources provided of course, contradict you and show that you falsify information. That's busch league.


What matters for you, is that this lower-case god is the one that you personally worship

You have yet to show anything besides that Allah is lord of all created beings. Nobody sane will take that definition as meaning "Satan."

Your lies will be exposed. When you have to step outside of your Kentucky backwoods community and live in the real world it's going to shock you. Your meaningful perversions of holy book verses and peer-reviewed scriptural studies is disgraceful.

God is watching. He hears when you call him Satan. He hears you when you show intolerance of gays, Catholics, muslims, Jews, and anyone else that doesn't hold an exclusionist worldview. I hope your sins are worth the torture

1God4all
March 1st, 2015, 12:05 AM
Now that you have agreed with my supplied definition...plug it into context...

To everyone but you, "lord of all created beings" and "lord of all creation" do not refer to Satan. Jinn are created beings, as with man, and angels, and animals, and anything else.

But apparently you think God is not lord over Satan and demons?


You make YECs look knowledgeable

Apple7
March 1st, 2015, 12:09 AM
The "your god is pagan" nonsense is used by Christians who point to Allah as false, and by Muslims who point to Elohim as false. Both are right and both are wrong, as I've covered numerous times already.

Your 'allah' is Satan.

Is that a little clearer....?




The fact that Muslims use your same argument about the Canaanite sun god against you should tell you something.

Of course, that it should doesn't always mean that it will. Denying enlightenment is foolish but also your right.

You mean those googled 'wiki sources' that anyone with an internet link can edit...?





I am the only one of us two who seeks answers without preconceived notions. You are 100% correct that I don't alter facts. I only wish I could say the same of you.

You google for your answers...that is not research...





If it comforts you to imagine me as a furious Muslim then be my guest. It's no concern of mine if you believe my stated personal religion.

It does...why else would you have created a new nic name after being banned with the first?

Something bothering you that you needed to come back for...?





And it certainly delights me to hear you continually reference anger.You clearly are projecting your own emotions, and I would hope that you'd be so angry you'll never blatantly lie again.

Where would this be, exactly.....or are you (once again) confusing me with another...?




So what? Nothing to me. But you are claiming that Islam worships Satan because Allah is "lord of all created beings," the idiocy of such a claim being obvious.

I proved this with the Arabic definition for 'allah'....which has the term being derived from the same exact root word as other pagan Arab false gods.

Apple7
March 1st, 2015, 12:15 AM
Which, even with your near constant refusal to give sources, I've been doing. And the results I come back with, my sources provided of course, contradict you and show that you falsify information. That's busch league.

I provide numerous sources, from my nearly 20 years of research.

You, on the other hand, google your responses within minutes...showing your shallow depth of understanding...






You have yet to show anything besides that Allah is lord of all created beings. Nobody sane will take that definition as meaning "Satan."

I have provided numerous other examples...but you 'need more time' to understand them...




God is watching. He hears when you call him Satan. He hears you when you show intolerance of gays, Catholics, muslims, Jews, and anyone else that doesn't hold an exclusionist worldview. I hope your sins are worth the torture


Spoken like a true muslim...

Apple7
March 1st, 2015, 12:19 AM
To everyone but you, "lord of all created beings" and "lord of all creation" do not refer to Satan. Jinn are created beings, as with man, and angels, and animals, and anything else.

But apparently you think God is not lord over Satan and demons?


Why does the Koran have some suras narrated by, and named after, demons...?




You make YECs look knowledgeable

As compared to followers of islam...

1God4all
March 1st, 2015, 03:18 AM
Your 'allah' is Satan.

Is that a little clearer....?
Crystal.


You mean those googled 'wiki sources' that anyone with an internet link can edit.....that is not research...
I'll be happy to show you scholarly sources. For future reference though, wikipedia has a 97.5% accuracy rate. Also I referenced wiki exactly twice on this thread. But it's no problem.

What is your method of research? I seem to remember you saying Muslims believe in the Holy Trinity.....Ironic, since you'd probably be executed in Saudi Arabia for saying that. You know good research clearly. I'll stick to the scholarly sources I find using Google.


I proved this with the Arabic definition for 'allah'....which has the term being derived from the same exact root word as other pagan Arab false gods. Since my own words mean nothing to you, I'll be posting quotes found via this webpage [http://www.plim.org/1Allah.html]. The creator of that webpage is Penny Warren, Assistant Dean at Northwestern University.

<<<<NOTE: if the link does not work, Google "is the word Allah similar to elohim" and the correct source is the first result>>>>

Introduction:

"The Hebrew title of God is "Elohim;" in Arabic it's "Allah." These two words for God have a common bond that most people don't understand. Both of these words have their origin in pagan deities of the ancient past."


On Commonality of Origin:

"Webster’s Dictionary gives the definition and etymology of Allah as follows. Allah is the Muslim name for "the God." Allah is derived from two words "al," which means "the" and "ilah," which is related to the feminine Hebrew word for God, "eloah."
Now the Hebrew title or name for God is 'Elohim' and it is the plural form of eloah. It is made plural by adding "im," which is masculine. This corresponds to adding "s" to make a word plural in English. So the commonality between Allah and Elohim is "eloah" and "ilah."

According the Huston Smith’s book The World’s Religions(p. 222), it states: "Allah is formed by joining the definite article al meaning ‘the’ with Ilah (God). Literally, Allah means ‘The God.’ … When the masculine plural ending im is dropped from the Hebrew word for God, Elohim, the two words sound much alike." Eloah (Hebrew feminine) is similar to Ilah (God). Both Elohim and Allah are titles and not names."



On 'Elohim' being derived from Canaanite theology:

""Elohim, the plural of the Hebrew word eloha, "god," a lengthened form of the Canaanite word el (Aramaic alaha; Arabic ilah), is most frequently used for the God of Israel in the Old Testament. … The Israelites probably borrowed the Canaanite plural noun elohim and made it singular in meaning in their cultic practices and theological reflections (The New Encyclopaiedia Britannica, Micropaedia, Vol. III, 15th Edition, p. 863).""


On Etymology of Allah:

"Encyclopedia Britannica Micropedia (Vol. 1; p. 250) states the following about Allah: "Etymologically, Allah is probably a contraction of the Arabic al-ilahh, "the God," although the Aramaic Alaha has also been proposed. The origin of the name can be traced to the earliest Semitic writings in which the word for god was Il or El, the latter bring in the Old Testament synonym for Yahweh. Known to Arabs even in pre-Islamic times, Allah is standard Arabic for God And is used by Arab Christians as well as Muslims.""



Who is Allah?:

"Allaah is the Arabic word for 'one God,' the same as Eloh in Armaic. Allaah is not God of Muslims only. He is God of all creations, because He is their Creator and Sustainer." (From the Daar-ul-Ehsaan USA site, "The Most Frequently Asked Questions About Islaam," http://www.daar-ul-ehsaan.org/faq.HTM#Allaah)



Conclusion:

"Although the etymology of Allah and Aleim (Elohim) is inconclusive, it is clear that the Jews, Christians, and Arabs are worshipping the same God or "All in All." None of these religions would deny that there is ONE source of life, regardless of what names or title The Creator is called. Innumerable names can be attributed to the Most High."



How's that for some quality research?

CherubRam
March 1st, 2015, 03:30 AM
Crystal.


I'll be happy to show you scholarly sources. For future reference though, wikipedia has a 97.5% accuracy rate. Also I referenced wiki exactly twice on this thread. But it's no problem.

What is your method of research? I seem to remember you saying Muslims believe in the Holy Trinity.....Ironic, since you'd probably be executed in Saudi Arabia for saying that. You know good research clearly. I'll stick to the scholarly sources I find using Google.

Since my own words mean nothing to you, I'll be posting quotes found via this webpage [http://www.plim.org/1Allah.html]. The creator of that webpage is Penny Warren, Assistant Dean at Northwestern University.


Introduction:

"The Hebrew title of God is "Elohim;" in Arabic it's "Allah." These two words for God have a common bond that most people don't understand. Both of these words have their origin in pagan deities of the ancient past."


On Commonality of Origin:

"Webster’s Dictionary gives the definition and etymology of Allah as follows. Allah is the Muslim name for "the God." Allah is derived from two words "al," which means "the" and "ilah," which is related to the feminine Hebrew word for God, "eloah."
Now the Hebrew title or name for God is 'Elohim' and it is the plural form of eloah. It is made plural by adding "im," which is masculine. This corresponds to adding "s" to make a word plural in English. So the commonality between Allah and Elohim is "eloah" and "ilah."

According the Huston Smith’s book The World’s Religions (p. 222), it states: "Allah is formed by joining the definite article al meaning ‘the’ with Ilah (God). Literally, Allah means ‘The God.’ … When the masculine plural ending im is dropped from the Hebrew word for God, Elohim, the two words sound much alike." Eloah (Hebrew feminine) is similar to Ilah (God). Both Elohim and Allah are titles and not names."



On 'Elohim' being derived from Canaanite theology:

""Elohim, the plural of the Hebrew word eloha, "god," a lengthened form of the Canaanite word el (Aramaic alaha; Arabic ilah), is most frequently used for the God of Israel in the Old Testament. … The Israelites probably borrowed the Canaanite plural noun elohim and made it singular in meaning in their cultic practices and theological reflections (The New Encyclopaiedia Britannica, Micropaedia, Vol. III, 15th Edition, p. 863).""



On Etymology of Allah:

"Encyclopedia Britannica Micropedia (Vol. 1; p. 250) states the following about Allah: "Etymologically, Allah is probably a contraction of the Arabic al-ilahh, "the God," although the Aramaic Alaha has also been proposed. The origin of the name can be traced to the earliest Semitic writings in which the word for god was Il or El, the latter bring in the Old Testament synonym for Yahweh. Known to Arabs even in pre-Islamic times, Allah is standard Arabic for God And is used by Arab Christians as well as Muslims.""



Who is Allah?:

"Allaah is the Arabic word for 'one God,' [/I]the same as Eloh in Armaic.[/I] Allaah is not God of Muslims only. He is God of all creations, because He is their Creator and Sustainer." (From the Daar-ul-Ehsaan USA site, "The Most Frequently Asked Questions About Islaam," http://www.daar-ul-ehsaan.org/faq.HTM#Allaah)



Conclusion:

"Although the etymology of Allah and Aleim (Elohim) is inconclusive, it is clear that the Jews, Christians, and Arabs are worshipping the same God or "All in All." None of these religions would deny that there is ONE source of life, regardless of what names or title The Creator is called. Innumerable names can be attributed to the Most High."



How's that for some quality research?

There is no person named elohiym, it is a title. There is no person named eloah, it is also a title. Yahwah is the only personal name of our creator. Allah and Yahwah are not the same name in the same or different language. There is no relationship between the two names.

1God4all
March 1st, 2015, 03:33 AM
There is no person named elohiym, it is a title. There is no person named eloah, it is also a title. Yahwah is the only personal name of our creator. Allah and Yahwah are not the same name in the same or different language. There is no relationship between the two names.

Your first three statements are confirmed by the source. How about you click on the link and let the Assistant Dean of one of the country's most prestigious universities teach you something?

CherubRam
March 1st, 2015, 05:21 AM
Your first three statements are confirmed by the source. How about you click on the link and let the Assistant Dean of one of the country's most prestigious universities teach you something?

A title is not a personal name. Why does that elude you?

1God4all
March 1st, 2015, 07:07 AM
A title is not a personal name. Why does that elude you?

I misunderstood you originally, my apologies.

There are problems with the word Yahweh. Since Judaism did not allow for it to be spoken by humans, we don't actually know the proper pronunciation. This is why some Bibles have 'Jehovah' in place of Yahweh. There are various other pronunciations like Yahowa and Yahwah.

As you're well aware YHWH is a more accurate way to represent God's personal name. We can determine the meaning of YHWH by examining Exodus 3:14-15

14 And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.'
15 And God said moreover unto Moses: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.

YHWH is derived from the Hebrew verb haya meaning "to be," and the italicized words above have been used to define YHWH as "He is" or "He will be."

HoWa or is a word used often in the Quran to refer to God in the same way that 'He' is used in English Bibles.

So now we have a word each from both the Quran and Torah meaning roughly the same thing. Haya and howa are clearly similar in structure as well. Additionally, howa fits neatly into one of the accepted pronunciations of God's personal name, Yahowah.

Look at these two words side by side.

Defined as:
YHWH -- He is
HoWa -- He

Even before taking into account that the true pronunciation of YHWH has been forever lost to history, there is very strong evidence that HoWa is the Arabic equivalent of YHWH. This small change in spelling is consistent with the transition seen of the Hebrew 'Eloha' to the Arabic 'Allah'

CherubRam
March 1st, 2015, 08:22 AM
I misunderstood you originally, my apologies.

There are problems with the word Yahweh. Since Judaism did not allow for it to be spoken by humans, we don't actually know the proper pronunciation. This is why some Bibles have 'Jehovah' in place of Yahweh. There are various other pronunciations like Yahowa and Yahwah.

As you're well aware YHWH is a more accurate way to represent God's personal name. We can determine the meaning of YHWH by examining Exodus 3:14-15

14 And God said unto Moses: 'I AM THAT I AM'; and He said: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.'
15 And God said moreover unto Moses: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.

YHWH is derived from the Hebrew verb haya meaning "to be," and the italicized words above have been used to define YHWH as "He is" or "He will be."

HoWa or is a word used often in the Quran to refer to God in the same way that 'He' is used in English Bibles.

So now we have a word each from both the Quran and Torah meaning roughly the same thing. Haya and howa are clearly similar in structure as well. Additionally, howa fits neatly into one of the accepted pronunciations of God's personal name, Yahowah.

Look at these two words side by side.

Defined as:
YHWH -- He is
HoWa -- He

Even before taking into account that the true pronunciation of YHWH has been forever lost to history, there is very strong evidence that HoWa is the Arabic equivalent of YHWH. This small change in spelling is consistent with the transition seen of the Hebrew 'Eloha' to the Arabic 'Allah'

Yahuah=Yahwah. Hebrew did not have an e vowel until about 200AD. In Hebrew howa means evil. There is no vowel between Yah and Wah.

Apple7
March 1st, 2015, 10:43 AM
I'll be happy to show you scholarly sources.

Then do it...




For future reference though, wikipedia has a 97.5% accuracy rate. Also I referenced wiki exactly twice on this thread. But it's no problem.

According to.....?





What is your method of research?

Exegesis.






I seem to remember you saying Muslims believe in the Holy Trinity.....

No.

I said that the authors of the Koran state The Trinity, repeatedly.

Muslims follow islam...they don't follow their Koran.






Ironic, since you'd probably be executed in Saudi Arabia for saying that.

Are you planning on doing that...?





You know good research clearly. I'll stick to the scholarly sources I find using Google.

You're lazy...what else would I expect...?

Apple7
March 1st, 2015, 10:46 AM
Since my own words mean nothing to you, I'll be posting quotes found via this webpage [http://www.plim.org/1Allah.html]. The creator of that webpage is Penny Warren, Assistant Dean at Northwestern University.

<<<<NOTE: if the link does not work, Google "is the word Allah similar to elohim" and the correct source is the first result>>>>

Introduction:

"The Hebrew title of God is "Elohim;" in Arabic it's "Allah." These two words for God have a common bond that most people don't understand. Both of these words have their origin in pagan deities of the ancient past."


On Commonality of Origin:

"Webster’s Dictionary gives the definition and etymology of Allah as follows. Allah is the Muslim name for "the God." Allah is derived from two words "al," which means "the" and "ilah," which is related to the feminine Hebrew word for God, "eloah."
Now the Hebrew title or name for God is 'Elohim' and it is the plural form of eloah. It is made plural by adding "im," which is masculine. This corresponds to adding "s" to make a word plural in English. So the commonality between Allah and Elohim is "eloah" and "ilah."

According the Huston Smith’s book The World’s Religions(p. 222), it states: "Allah is formed by joining the definite article al meaning ‘the’ with Ilah (God). Literally, Allah means ‘The God.’ … When the masculine plural ending im is dropped from the Hebrew word for God, Elohim, the two words sound much alike." Eloah (Hebrew feminine) is similar to Ilah (God). Both Elohim and Allah are titles and not names."



On 'Elohim' being derived from Canaanite theology:

""Elohim, the plural of the Hebrew word eloha, "god," a lengthened form of the Canaanite word el (Aramaic alaha; Arabic ilah), is most frequently used for the God of Israel in the Old Testament. … The Israelites probably borrowed the Canaanite plural noun elohim and made it singular in meaning in their cultic practices and theological reflections (The New Encyclopaiedia Britannica, Micropaedia, Vol. III, 15th Edition, p. 863).""


On Etymology of Allah:

"Encyclopedia Britannica Micropedia (Vol. 1; p. 250) states the following about Allah: "Etymologically, Allah is probably a contraction of the Arabic al-ilahh, "the God," although the Aramaic Alaha has also been proposed. The origin of the name can be traced to the earliest Semitic writings in which the word for god was Il or El, the latter bring in the Old Testament synonym for Yahweh. Known to Arabs even in pre-Islamic times, Allah is standard Arabic for God And is used by Arab Christians as well as Muslims.""



Who is Allah?:

"Allaah is the Arabic word for 'one God,' the same as Eloh in Armaic. Allaah is not God of Muslims only. He is God of all creations, because He is their Creator and Sustainer." (From the Daar-ul-Ehsaan USA site, "The Most Frequently Asked Questions About Islaam," http://www.daar-ul-ehsaan.org/faq.HTM#Allaah)



Conclusion:

"Although the etymology of Allah and Aleim (Elohim) is inconclusive, it is clear that the Jews, Christians, and Arabs are worshipping the same God or "All in All." None of these religions would deny that there is ONE source of life, regardless of what names or title The Creator is called. Innumerable names can be attributed to the Most High."



How's that for some quality research?


This googled garbage is wrong on so many counts....but you lapped it up like a kitten and a saucer of milk.

What a liberal....rolfolol!

chair
March 1st, 2015, 12:27 PM
Yahuah=Yahwah. Hebrew did not have an e vowel until about 200AD. In Hebrew howa means evil. There is no vowel between Yah and Wah.

Where did you get this interesting information from?

aikido7
March 1st, 2015, 12:41 PM
Allah Islam Muslim
Allah is not Yahwah
Allah is a phase of the sun, translation "The Dawn", interpretation: Morning Star or Rising Sun. Allah is the contracted form from Alilah, {Al il ah} and the transliteral is this: The/god/ascends. The reason for the confusion is because the word "Allah" is borrowed from the Chaldean language. It is not an Aramaic word. More than two thousand years ago the Aramaic word for God was El, and "Elah," and “Il” and “Ilah,” which means “God” and “The God."

Note: Aramaic and ancient Hebrew did not use the letter e for a vowel.

As tradition has it, it was Abraham and Ishmael that built the Kaaba as a house for Elohiym, but as time went on other gods were introduced and placed in the Kaaba. Now when Elohiym was in the Kaaba pantheon, there came the King of Moab called Balak; and it was Balak who wanted the prophet Balaam to ask Elohiym to curse the Jews, but Elohiym refused to curse the Jews.

(For more info see Numbers 22 through 24:25 in the bible)

At some point in time afterward, Elohiym, the God of Abraham was cast out of the Kaaba by the Arabic people, and His name was cursed and not to be ever spoken. During that time Chemosh was made the head of the Pantheon in the Kaaba. Chemosh means Highest Power, and is also a phase of the sun at midday; it is Allah who becomes Chemosh at midday.

And so Mohammed did not know the name of the God of Abraham. What Arabs have forgotten, is that because the Hebrews and Arabs are descendants of Abraham, they both had spoken the same language at one time.

The New Testament scripture of Matthew 22:37 repeat’s Deut. 6:5. If this verse were represented in Hebrew, it would, show YHWH, not Allah as the one you should love as the God of you. The translations clearly show that LORD is a substitute for the word Yahwah.

Jesus is reported to have cried out in Aramaic: ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI? If Allah was valid, how come Jesus called out in Aramaic "Eloi;" Although those who have translated the Bible into Arabic used Allah as a term for God.

According to The New Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the definition of Eloi is as follows: Eloi is of Aramaic origin, and is the Aramaic phrase "my God". God has many name titles, but Yahwah is the only "true" personal name of God.

Note: Babylonia, Babylonian: ( Bavili / Babili ) in the Akkadian language of the time, meant "Gate of the gods." Babili, a contracted word for "gate of the gods"; ending in "li", forming a double "LL" sound for the word "gods".

Using Ahmed Deedat's booklet, "What is His Name." On page 25 of Deedat's book, he gives a list of the names of deities in Hebrew, English, and Arabic.

He claims that Elah, a Hebrew Bible name, is the same as ILAH in Arabic. There is just one problem. Nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is Elah the name of God. It is the name of a man and the name of an oak tree.
(Pictorial Ency. of the Bible, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI, USA, Vol. 5.)

"Elah" means "gods above" in the old Aramaic. We are grateful to Ahmed Deedat who has helped us identify Allah by admitting that "ILAH" is the root name for Allah.

The complete name of Allah before it is contracted is "AL-ILAH."
(Hitti, Philip, History of The Arabs, London, 1950 , 8 ,) "ILAH" is the masculine root word for Allah, or "god", in Arabic. "AL ILAT" is the feminine resulting in Allat.All translations are a betrayal.
To offer a short example, Jesus was described in the gospels as offering "a ransom for many."

While many believers actually think the verse refers to his sacrificial death on the cross, the real translation of the word is related to being freed from captivity.

Does it have anything to do about payment for our sins?

It almost certainly does not have this meaning in Mark.

The Greek word refers to the payment made to liberate captives, as in war, or slaves from debt slavery.

The word is "lutron" and it refers to bondage, not sin.

But tell that to the readers and moderators on this board and you will eventually be prevented from posting.

These folks cannot yet believe the Good News that the Devil has already lost and God is in control.

"I saw Satan fall from the sky like lightning from Heaven."

Dennyg1
March 1st, 2015, 02:48 PM
This googled garbage is wrong on so many counts....but you lapped it up like a kitten and a saucer of milk.

What a liberal....rolfolol!

You're hopeless. Have fun with Cherub in your fantasy land

intojoy
March 1st, 2015, 03:36 PM
Egypt will be at peace with Israel and it will come by conversion. There will be a cruel Moslem ruler that they will reject and will turn to Jehovah.

intojoy
March 1st, 2015, 03:37 PM
Egypt will be at peace with Israel and it will come by conversion. There will be a cruel Moslem ruler that they will reject and will turn to Jehovah.


In that day shall there be an altar to Jehovah in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to Jehovah. And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto Jehovah of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they shall cry unto Jehovah because of oppressors, and he will send them a saviour, and a defender, and he will deliver them. And Jehovah shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know Jehovah in that day; yea, they shall worship with sacrifice and oblation, and shall vow a vow unto Jehovah, and shall perform it. (*Isaiah‬ *19‬:*19-21‬ ASV)

Apple7
March 1st, 2015, 06:41 PM
You're hopeless. Have fun with Cherub in your fantasy land

Is that any way to honor your god 'allah'...?

CherubRam
March 1st, 2015, 08:35 PM
Where did you get this interesting information from?
I will have to get back to you on that at a later date.

CherubRam
April 22nd, 2015, 11:47 PM
Have you read page number #1.

CherubRam
May 30th, 2015, 05:56 PM
Read the first posts. :rolleyes:

CherubRam
September 3rd, 2015, 04:00 AM
These are three different spellings for the same god: Alilah, Allah, Alla.

chair
September 3rd, 2015, 04:34 AM
I will have to get back to you on that at a later date.

any idea when that might be?

CherubRam
September 3rd, 2015, 06:22 AM
any idea when that might be?


Yahuah=Yahwah. Hebrew did not have an e vowel until about 200AD. In Hebrew howa means evil. There is no vowel between Yah and Wah.

This Info comes from many different sources. Did you have a specific question? The original consonants for God's name is IHUH.

The spelling "Yahweh" is an error because it leads a person to mispronounce the name as Yahway. There is no vowel between Yah and Wah because "Yah" is given as a FIRST name. God's name is two verbs with both vowels being "a." The modern letter Y is a acceptable replacement for the letter "I" in pronouncing the name. The modern letter W is also a proper replacement for the {double u} [UU] sound. The letter V should not be used in God's name because it is not the correct equivalent sound for the U.

Translated, God's name means, Life Began. Its origins are in the Proto Semitic starting with the Aramaic. It was the Rabbi's who made changes to the Aramaic which became the Hebrew language; both ancient and modern.

CherubRam
September 3rd, 2015, 06:25 AM
This angel (messenger) requested Michael to show him the hidden name, that he might enunciate it in an oath, so that those might quake before that name and oath...


Matthew 5:34
But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne;

Matthew 5:36
And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black.

James 5:12
Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear—not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. All you need to say is a simple “Yes” or “No.” Otherwise you will be condemned.

SamuelJ
September 3rd, 2015, 06:56 AM
Yahuah=Yahwah. Hebrew did not have an e vowel until about 200AD. In Hebrew howa means evil. There is no vowel between Yah and Wah.

This Info comes from many different sources. Did you have a specific question? The original consonants for God's name is IHUH.

The spelling "Yahweh" is an error because it leads a person to mispronounce the name as Yahway. There is no vowel between Yah and Wah because "Yah" is given as a FIRST name. God's name is two verbs with both vowels being "a." The modern letter Y is a acceptable replacement for the letter "I" in pronouncing the name. The modern letter W is also a proper replacement for the {double u} [UU] sound. The letter V should not be used in God's name because it is not the correct equivalent sound for the U.

Translated, God's name means, Life Began. Its origins are in the Proto Semitic starting with the Aramaic. It was the Rabbi's who made changes to the Aramaic which became the Hebrew language; both ancient and modern.

1God4All pretty much laid it out there for you on the last page

chair
September 3rd, 2015, 07:11 AM
Yahuah=Yahwah. Hebrew did not have an e vowel until about 200AD. In Hebrew howa means evil. There is no vowel between Yah and Wah. ...

Where do you know this from?
I am not aware of the addition of an "e" vowel around 200 AD.

Nor do I know of "howa" meaning "evil"- unless I can't figure out what Hebrew word that is supposed to be.

Vowels are generally not written in Hebrew. A system for recording vowels was introduced relatively late. Torah scrolls, for example, do not have vowels.

Chair

CherubRam
September 3rd, 2015, 07:16 AM
1God4All pretty much laid it out there for you on the last page
I do not agree.

CherubRam
September 3rd, 2015, 07:22 AM
Where do you know this from?
I am not aware of the addition of an "e" vowel around 200 AD.

Nor do I know of "howa" meaning "evil"- unless I can't figure out what Hebrew word that is supposed to be.

Vowels are generally not written in Hebrew. A system for recording vowels was introduced relatively late. Torah scrolls, for example, do not have vowels.

Chair
Some of this info comes from studying the history of the Hebrew and English language.

chair
September 3rd, 2015, 07:43 AM
Some of this info comes from studying the history of the Hebrew and English language.

Well, if you can't explain where you got this from, I can only say: go back and study again. You have plenty to learn.

CherubRam
September 3rd, 2015, 09:06 AM
Well, if you can't explain where you got this from, I can only say: go back and study again. You have plenty to learn.
You asked a broad question, so I gave you a broad answer. Stop playing stupid.

SamuelJ
September 3rd, 2015, 10:30 AM
I do not agree.

Respectfully, there isn't much to agree on. What he said is proven

CherubRam
September 3rd, 2015, 01:10 PM
Respectfully, there isn't much to agree on. What he said is proven

http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy248/CherubRam/YahCapture_zps37a99887.jpg

chair
September 3rd, 2015, 02:29 PM
You asked a broad question, so I gave you a broad answer. Stop playing stupid.

You gave no answer at all.

Have a nice day.

CherubRam
November 13th, 2015, 04:00 PM
A bump for Muslims.

CherubRam
December 29th, 2015, 05:22 PM
Read page #1.

CherubRam
April 25th, 2016, 04:37 AM
This is what Islam does when they are able to get away with it: The Forgotten Genocide: April 24 marks the “Great Crime,” that is, the Armenian genocide that took place under Turkey’s Islamic Ottoman Empire, during and after WWI. Out of an approximate population of two million, some 1.5 million Armenians died. If early 20th century Turkey had the apparatuses and technology to execute in mass—such as 1940s Germany’s gas chambers—the entire Armenian population may well have been annihilated. Most objective American historians who have studied the question unequivocally agree that it was a deliberate, calculated genocide: More than one million Armenians perished as the result of execution, starvation, disease, the harsh environment, and physical abuse. A people who lived in eastern ...

Link to story:https://pjmedia.com/blog/the-forgotten-genocide-why-it-matters-today/