PDA

View Full Version : There is no Hell



Pages : [1] 2 3 4

CherubRam
November 13th, 2014, 06:17 AM
In regards to: The Rich Man and Lazarus. Luke 16:19-31

Theophilus is the name or honorary title of the person to whom the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles are addressed (Luke 1:3, Acts 1:1)

It is unanimously agreed that both Luke and Acts were originally written in Koine Greek, and that "Theophilos," as it appears therein, means friend of God or (be)loved by God or loving God in the Greek language.

No one knows the true identity of Theophilus who wrote the story, and there are more than several conjectures and traditions around an identity.
In all there are about eight traditions based upon that story. Again I say: Hell has never been a doctrinal belief in Judaism.

Don't you think if Yahshua was to introduce a new doctrine that he would at least explain the story?


Hades ( /ˈheɪdiːz/; from Greek ᾍδης (older form Ἀϝίδης), Hadēs, originally Ἅιδης, Haidēs or Άΐδης, Aidēs (Doric Ἀΐδας Aidas), meaning "the unseen") was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. The genitive ᾍδου, Haidou, was an elision to denote locality: "[the house/dominion] of Hades". Eventually, the nominative came to designate the abode of the dead.

In Greek mythology, Hades is the oldest male child of Cronus and Rhea. According to myth, he and his brothers Zeus and Poseidon defeated the Titans and claimed rulership over the cosmos, ruling the underworld, air, and sea, respectively; the solid earth, long the province of Gaia, was available to all three concurrently.

Hades was also called "Plouton" (Greek: Πλούτων, gen.: Πλούτωνος, meaning "Rich One"), a name which the Romans Latinized as Pluto. The Romans would associate Hades/Pluto with their own chthonic gods, Dis Pater and Orcus. The corresponding Etruscan god was Aita. Symbols associated with him are the Helm of Darkness, the bident and the three-headed dog, Cerberus.


KJV
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

The words "torment throughout eternity" is not relevant, because in the second death, hades and death are done away with. Most likely the word "grave" was replaced with the word "Hades."

In English usage the word "Hades" first appears around 1600, as a term used to explain the article in the Apostles' Creed, "He descended into hell", where the place of waiting (the place of "the spirits in prison" 1 Peter 3:19 KJV) into which Yahshua is there affirmed to have gone after the Crucifixion needed to be distinguished from what had come to be more usually called "hell," the place or state of those finally damned.

God does not torture living beings in Hell.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Since Hell or Hades are done away with, there can be no eternal punishment, other than the condemed are cut off from the living for all eternity. Do you see what I am saying? In other words there is no one alive in a place called Hades. Scriptures say that God takes their life away from them. If there were a place called Hades with living being in it, then God lied, and the serpent told the truth.

I'm making a point, and I am not calling God a liar.

Because people die, unless saved by God, that means that life in Hades is a lie of the serpent. The serpent doctrine is that there is life in Hades, and people are being tortured for all eternity. That is a lie. Scriptures are written in such a way that they are self-correcting. The Catholics were from the Gnostic mystery schools, they believed in Hell and Trinitarianism. The Catholics killed off the original Christians, and replaced their scriptures with their own versions.

Daniel 8:12
Because of rebellion, the LORD’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
Scripture is God's truth.


Catholic Gnosticism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Just a reminder that it was the Catholic Church that canonized scripture.


The Rich Man And Lazarus With Commentary.
Luke 16:19. "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Wealth, comfort, poverty, and suffering have nothing to do with a person’s salvation.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
The word messenger is replaced with the word angel. And assuming that this is a parable, there would be no need for Lazarus to be carried to Abraham, and before the resurrection. As for being in Hell and torment and agony; that contradicts the verse that says the dead know nothing. It also is a contradiction where scripture says that Yahwah kills the condemned. In regards to the water on the finger; that would evaporate before it even got to a person. It also contradicts where God said “you will surly die.”

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

Again I say to you that wealth and poverty has nothing to do with the resurrection of the righteous. There is one truth in all of this, and that there is a chasm that has been set in place; and that is called death of the condemned, which are killed by Yahwah. There is no life for them afterward.

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

These are obviously the words of a dim wit, and not the words of an ancient being. No place in these verses is credit given to Yahwah, but only to Moses and the prophets; which would be unlike Yahshua to exclude Yahwah in matters of life and death.

Hell is a pagan belief and part of the Pagan religion. Why would Yahshua use a nonexistent biblical teaching for which he never explains afterward? Before the return from Babylon, Judaism never taught the concept of hell. After the return from Babylon the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews began to introduce Hell into Judaism.

Yahshua never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in other legitimate parables.
Yahshua, being an ancient being full of knowledge and wisdom, would have had the good sense to explain the new concept. Obviously the story of “The Rich Man and Lazarus” are the words of some man introducing the Pagan concept of Hell.

If it is true that there will be people ALIVE in Hell, Then God lied, and the Serpent told the truth. The word "Hell" added to scripture replacing the words grave, pit, and Gehenna. God is not a liar.

Genesis 2:17
...but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."


Genesis 3:3
...but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "


Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.


Now who is telling the truth, God or the Serpent? According to scripture the Serpent is telling the truth. By adding the word Hell to scriptures it looks as if the Serpent is telling the truth. Hell is a place for God to torture LIVING BEINGS for all eternity.


The Hebrew word Sheol literally means grave, not Hell. Is there LIFE in Hell? God says that man will surely die, and the Serpent says that man will not surely die.

The Pagans teach that there is life in Hell. God says there is death. And Yahshua also said that God can destroy both body and spirit.


Romans 1:32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”


Matthew 10:28
And do not fear them which can kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in [hell / Gehenna.]


Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.


Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?


As we all know the bible uses many parables. There is no real Hell, that word was put into scriptures by the Gnostic Pagans. Words like grave, pit, and Gehenna were replaced with the word hell. Those who are condemned to destruction never return. They are cut off for all eternity, never to live again.

The number of times "Hell" appears in the English Bible
Translations


Bible Translations
Old Testament
New Testament
Total's
"Authorized" King James Version
31
23
54
New King James Version
19
13
32
American Standard Version
0
13
13
New American Standard Bible
0
13
13
Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
New Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
Revised English Bible
0
13
13
New Living Translation
0
13
13
Amplified
0
13
13
New International Version (best-selling English Bible)
0
14
14
Darby
0
12
12
New Century Version
0
12
12
Wesley's New Testament (1755)

0
0
Scarlett's N.T. (1798)

0
0
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)

0
0
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
0
0
0
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)

0
0
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
0
0
0
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
0
0
0
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)

0
0
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
0

0
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)

0
0
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)

0
0
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)

0
0
Western N.T. (1926)

0
0
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)

0
0
Concordant Literal NT (1983)

0
0
The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)

0
0
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)

0
0
New American Bible (1970)
0
0
0
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
0
0
0
Tanakh. The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
0

0
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)

0
0
Christian Bible (1991)
0
0
0
World English Bible (in progress)
0
0
0
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)

0
0
0
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)

0
0
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**

0
0


The word hell was not originally in the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic text, as the so called biased translators have tried to establish it as scripture; but they were not good enough to cover up the reality of what God is saying. The source of this word hell and the concept of eternal torture is not Christian, but Pagan. You can find it in Babylon, in Greece, and especially Rome. But if you dig a little bit deeper you will see that it is bad translations that have infected this doctrine of Damnation in scriptures. As a matter of fact, scripture teaches the opposite.


ALL will see Gods salvation, even the condemned on the day of judgment. However, salvation is for the Elect of God, but the condemned will die because they did not seek God or repent. Death is their punishment. Sad but true. In regards to Romans 5: "All" is not everyone, but everyone saved. The condemned still are cut off from the living in death for all eternity.

Hell is more than a mistranslation, it's a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to introduce the Teutonic pagan word.

Tar-ta-rus (tartarus) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1. An infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a. The home of the dead, beneath the earth. b The god of the underworld. 2. Bible: The state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament

She-ol (sheol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] A place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead. Note: In the KJV about half of scriptures are translated as hell, the other half as grave.

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the bible. Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; it then was a place of constant burning of refuge.

Topheth is believed to be a location in Jerusalem, in the Valley of Hinnom, where the Canaanites sacrificed children to the god Moloch by burning them alive.

Isaiah 30:33
Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze.

Jeremiah 7:31-32
They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room.

Deuteronomy 13:1-5
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

Hades was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.

Jeremiah 19:13-15
The houses in Jerusalem and those of the kings of Judah will be defiled like this place, Topheth—all the houses where they burned incense on the roofs to all the starry hosts and poured out drink offerings to other gods.' "

Jeremiah then returned from Topheth, where the LORD had sent him to prophesy, and stood in the court of the LORD's temple and said to all the people, "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: 'Listen! I am going to bring on this city and the villages around it every disaster I pronounced against them, because they were stiff-necked and would not listen to my words.' "

That is Gehenna Judgment that Yahshua came and warned Israel about.

Matthew 23:29-39
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to [Hell / Gehenna?] Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of (the Lord / Yahwah.')

Jeremiah 7:33-34
" 'The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the LORD. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it. They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. I will bring an end to the sounds of joy and gladness and to the voices of bride and bridegroom in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate.

We do not worship a God who is without mercy or who tortures people for all eternity.

John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.


Gehenna and Hades are not interchangeable, they are two different places. There is no Hell!

The concept of Hell is part of the Pagan religion. The reason you see the word Hell in the New Testament, is because it was introduced into scripture by the Catholic Church. However, there is death of the body and spirit. Our bodies are mortal, and our spirits are mortal. And if God never called us back into being, we would never live again. And where Yahshua said: “have you not heard, you are gods.” That is based upon the promise of believing that Yahshua is the way to the truth and life: By the way, it is hidden in scripture that God is the Truth and Life. Also we must keep Gods commandments because they were not done away with. It was Moses laws that were written in stone by Joshua that were done away with. Don’t forget the bible uses many parables.

Are the words you are reading a translation, or an interpretation? What you are taught as Christians depends on whose team you’re on.

Spitfire
November 13th, 2014, 07:42 AM
This is your brain on sola scriptura.

All of CherubRam's posts are great examples of that, actually.

Aimiel
November 13th, 2014, 08:20 AM
Why would Death and Hell need to be cast into the Lake of Fire? Simply because they are enemies of God and living spirits (rulers of the darkness of this world) and need to be punished. The last enemy that shall be defeated is Death. We will bring him to his knees with our faith in God's ability to raise the dead. We will cause Death to no longer be able to do his job.

And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

When we have brought Death to his knees with our faith, our job of subduing Christ's enemies will be complete and He will return for a glorious and victorious church.

musterion
November 13th, 2014, 08:54 AM
In regards to: The Rich Man and Lazarus. Luke 16:19-31

Theophilus is the name or honorary title of the person to whom the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles are addressed (Luke 1:3, Acts 1:1)

It is unanimously agreed that both Luke and Acts were originally written in Koine Greek, and that "Theophilos," as it appears therein, means friend of God or (be)loved by God or loving God in the Greek language.

No one knows the true identity of Theophilus who wrote the story, and there are more than several conjectures and traditions around an identity.
In all there are about eight traditions based upon that story. Again I say: Hell has never been a doctrinal belief in Judaism.

Don't you think if Yahshua was to introduce a new doctrine that he would at least explain the story?


Hades ( /ˈheɪdiːz/; from Greek ᾍδης (older form Ἀϝίδης), Hadēs, originally Ἅιδης, Haidēs or Άΐδης, Aidēs (Doric Ἀΐδας Aidas), meaning "the unseen") was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. The genitive ᾍδου, Haidou, was an elision to denote locality: "[the house/dominion] of Hades". Eventually, the nominative came to designate the abode of the dead.

In Greek mythology, Hades is the oldest male child of Cronus and Rhea. According to myth, he and his brothers Zeus and Poseidon defeated the Titans and claimed rulership over the cosmos, ruling the underworld, air, and sea, respectively; the solid earth, long the province of Gaia, was available to all three concurrently.

Hades was also called "Plouton" (Greek: Πλούτων, gen.: Πλούτωνος, meaning "Rich One"), a name which the Romans Latinized as Pluto. The Romans would associate Hades/Pluto with their own chthonic gods, Dis Pater and Orcus. The corresponding Etruscan god was Aita. Symbols associated with him are the Helm of Darkness, the bident and the three-headed dog, Cerberus.


KJV
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

The words "torment throughout eternity" is not relevant, because in the second death, hades and death are done away with. Most likely the word "grave" was replaced with the word "Hades."

In English usage the word "Hades" first appears around 1600, as a term used to explain the article in the Apostles' Creed, "He descended into hell", where the place of waiting (the place of "the spirits in prison" 1 Peter 3:19 KJV) into which Yahshua is there affirmed to have gone after the Crucifixion needed to be distinguished from what had come to be more usually called "hell," the place or state of those finally damned.

God does not torture living beings in Hell.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Since Hell or Hades are done away with, there can be no eternal punishment, other than the condemed are cut off from the living for all eternity. Do you see what I am saying? In other words there is no one alive in a place called Hades. Scriptures say that God takes their life away from them. If there were a place called Hades with living being in it, then God lied, and the serpent told the truth.

I'm making a point, and I am not calling God a liar.

Because people die, unless saved by God, that means that life in Hades is a lie of the serpent. The serpent doctrine is that there is life in Hades, and people are being tortured for all eternity. That is a lie. Scriptures are written in such a way that they are self-correcting. The Catholics were from the Gnostic mystery schools, they believed in Hell and Trinitarianism. The Catholics killed off the original Christians, and replaced their scriptures with their own versions.

Daniel 8:12
Because of rebellion, the LORD’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
Scripture is God's truth.


Catholic Gnosticism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Just a reminder that it was the Catholic Church that canonized scripture.


The Rich Man And Lazarus With Commentary.
Luke 16:19. "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Wealth, comfort, poverty, and suffering have nothing to do with a person’s salvation.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
The word messenger is replaced with the word angel. And assuming that this is a parable, there would be no need for Lazarus to be carried to Abraham, and before the resurrection. As for being in Hell and torment and agony; that contradicts the verse that says the dead know nothing. It also is a contradiction where scripture says that Yahwah kills the condemned. In regards to the water on the finger; that would evaporate before it even got to a person. It also contradicts where God said “you will surly die.”

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

Again I say to you that wealth and poverty has nothing to do with the resurrection of the righteous. There is one truth in all of this, and that there is a chasm that has been set in place; and that is called death of the condemned, which are killed by Yahwah. There is no life for them afterward.

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

These are obviously the words of a dim wit, and not the words of an ancient being. No place in these verses is credit given to Yahwah, but only to Moses and the prophets; which would be unlike Yahshua to exclude Yahwah in matters of life and death.

Hell is a pagan belief and part of the Pagan religion. Why would Yahshua use a nonexistent biblical teaching for which he never explains afterward? Before the return from Babylon, Judaism never taught the concept of hell. After the return from Babylon the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews began to introduce Hell into Judaism.

Yahshua never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in other legitimate parables.
Yahshua, being an ancient being full of knowledge and wisdom, would have had the good sense to explain the new concept. Obviously the story of “The Rich Man and Lazarus” are the words of some man introducing the Pagan concept of Hell.

If it is true that there will be people ALIVE in Hell, Then God lied, and the Serpent told the truth. The word "Hell" added to scripture replacing the words grave, pit, and Gehenna. God is not a liar.

Genesis 2:17
...but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."


Genesis 3:3
...but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "


Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.


Now who is telling the truth, God or the Serpent? According to scripture the Serpent is telling the truth. By adding the word Hell to scriptures it looks as if the Serpent is telling the truth. Hell is a place for God to torture LIVING BEINGS for all eternity.


The Hebrew word Sheol literally means grave, not Hell. Is there LIFE in Hell? God says that man will surely die, and the Serpent says that man will not surely die.

The Pagans teach that there is life in Hell. God says there is death. And Yahshua also said that God can destroy both body and spirit.


Romans 1:32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”


Matthew 10:28
And do not fear them which can kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in [hell / Gehenna.]


Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.


Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?


As we all know the bible uses many parables. There is no real Hell, that word was put into scriptures by the Gnostic Pagans. Words like grave, pit, and Gehenna were replaced with the word hell. Those who are condemned to destruction never return. They are cut off for all eternity, never to live again.

The number of times "Hell" appears in the English Bible
Translations


Bible Translations
Old Testament
New Testament
Total's
"Authorized" King James Version
31
23
54
New King James Version
19
13
32
American Standard Version
0
13
13
New American Standard Bible
0
13
13
Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
New Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
Revised English Bible
0
13
13
New Living Translation
0
13
13
Amplified
0
13
13
New International Version (best-selling English Bible)
0
14
14
Darby
0
12
12
New Century Version
0
12
12
Wesley's New Testament (1755)

0
0
Scarlett's N.T. (1798)

0
0
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)

0
0
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
0
0
0
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)

0
0
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
0
0
0
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
0
0
0
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)

0
0
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
0

0
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)

0
0
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)

0
0
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)

0
0
Western N.T. (1926)

0
0
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)

0
0
Concordant Literal NT (1983)

0
0
The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)

0
0
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)

0
0
New American Bible (1970)
0
0
0
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
0
0
0
Tanakh. The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
0

0
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)

0
0
Christian Bible (1991)
0
0
0
World English Bible (in progress)
0
0
0
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)

0
0
0
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)

0
0
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**

0
0


The word hell was not originally in the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic text, as the so called biased translators have tried to establish it as scripture; but they were not good enough to cover up the reality of what God is saying. The source of this word hell and the concept of eternal torture is not Christian, but Pagan. You can find it in Babylon, in Greece, and especially Rome. But if you dig a little bit deeper you will see that it is bad translations that have infected this doctrine of Damnation in scriptures. As a matter of fact, scripture teaches the opposite.


ALL will see Gods salvation, even the condemned on the day of judgment. However, salvation is for the Elect of God, but the condemned will die because they did not seek God or repent. Death is their punishment. Sad but true. In regards to Romans 5: "All" is not everyone, but everyone saved. The condemned still are cut off from the living in death for all eternity.

Hell is more than a mistranslation, it's a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to introduce the Teutonic pagan word.

Tar-ta-rus (tartarus) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1. An infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a. The home of the dead, beneath the earth. b The god of the underworld. 2. Bible: The state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament

She-ol (sheol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] A place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead. Note: In the KJV about half of scriptures are translated as hell, the other half as grave.

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the bible. Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; it then was a place of constant burning of refuge.

Topheth is believed to be a location in Jerusalem, in the Valley of Hinnom, where the Canaanites sacrificed children to the god Moloch by burning them alive.

Isaiah 30:33
Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze.

Jeremiah 7:31-32
They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room.

Deuteronomy 13:1-5
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

Hades was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.

Jeremiah 19:13-15
The houses in Jerusalem and those of the kings of Judah will be defiled like this place, Topheth—all the houses where they burned incense on the roofs to all the starry hosts and poured out drink offerings to other gods.' "

Jeremiah then returned from Topheth, where the LORD had sent him to prophesy, and stood in the court of the LORD's temple and said to all the people, "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: 'Listen! I am going to bring on this city and the villages around it every disaster I pronounced against them, because they were stiff-necked and would not listen to my words.' "

That is Gehenna Judgment that Yahshua came and warned Israel about.

Matthew 23:29-39
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to [Hell / Gehenna?] Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of (the Lord / Yahwah.')

Jeremiah 7:33-34
" 'The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the LORD. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it. They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. I will bring an end to the sounds of joy and gladness and to the voices of bride and bridegroom in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate.

We do not worship a God who is without mercy or who tortures people for all eternity.

John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.


Gehenna and Hades are not interchangeable, they are two different places. There is no Hell!

The concept of Hell is part of the Pagan religion. The reason you see the word Hell in the New Testament, is because it was introduced into scripture by the Catholic Church. However, there is death of the body and spirit. Our bodies are mortal, and our spirits are mortal. And if God never called us back into being, we would never live again. And where Yahshua said: “have you not heard, you are gods.” That is based upon the promise of believing that Yahshua is the way to the truth and life: By the way, it is hidden in scripture that God is the Truth and Life. Also we must keep Gods commandments because they were not done away with. It was Moses laws that were written in stone by Joshua that were done away with. Don’t forget the bible uses many parables.

Are the words you are reading a translation, or an interpretation? What you are taught as Christians depends on whose team you’re on.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable. Would've saved you trouble to have begun with that.

OCTOBER23
November 13th, 2014, 09:19 AM
oooh , Cut and Paste my favourite thing to do.

Actually , Hell is just a Very Large Garbage dump using the Oil in Saudi Arabia

where you guys will be working burning all the Garbage from the Macdonalds Kids meals....lol

Damian
November 13th, 2014, 11:22 AM
This is your brain on sola scriptura.

All of CherubRam's posts are great examples of that, actually.

What about Cruciform's brain?

Spitfire
November 13th, 2014, 12:23 PM
What about Cruciform's brain?The works of "Prierias" Sylvestro Mazzolini are unavailable in English, sadly.

Perhaps I should get on that.

Ben Masada
November 13th, 2014, 12:26 PM
Why would Death and Hell need to be cast into the Lake of Fire? Simply because they are enemies of God and living spirits (rulers of the darkness of this world) and need to be punished. The last enemy that shall be defeated is Death. We will bring him to his knees with our faith in God's ability to raise the dead. We will cause Death to no longer be able to do his job.


Because to cast some thing into a lake of fire means the end and, to death and hell there is no end as long as there is some one alive on earth. Death is the entrance to hell whose mouth is always ready to open and welcome the dead.

Damian
November 13th, 2014, 12:34 PM
The works of "Prierias" Sylvestro Mazzolini are unavailable in English, sadly.

Perhaps I should get on that.

It doesn't appear that Mazzolini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_Mazzolini) was very successful in countering Luther's arguments.

Spitfire
November 13th, 2014, 01:16 PM
It doesn't appear that Mazzolini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvester_Mazzolini) was very successful in countering Luther's arguments.His works were cited as evidence that Roman Catholics must believe that the pope is always right no matter what because he is the pope. But that's because people generally ignore his later work where he, albeit succinctly, addresses head on the limitations on infallibility and the pope's authority.

Stripe
November 13th, 2014, 01:19 PM
There is no hell.Want to bet?

Spitfire
November 13th, 2014, 01:27 PM
Some people are in for one Hell of a surprise.

Ben Masada
November 13th, 2014, 01:35 PM
Some people are in for one Hell of a surprise.

And you ain't kidding, I tell you! Jesus once mentioned a parable... about... yea, the Richman and Lazarus. At the moment of the punch line he implied that the only way to escape hell is by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. That's in Luke 16:29-31. It means that salvation comes by the obedience to the Law which is an observable
fact.

jamie
November 13th, 2014, 02:07 PM
There is a point to the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The point is not to be buried near a rich man's grave because he will keep you up all night crying for water because his grave is on fire.

:rip:

OCTOBER23
November 13th, 2014, 04:15 PM
ISIS IS HEADED FOR HELL..........


AL BIG DADDY IS RAILING AGAINST THE USA AGAIN

AS THE PROPHECY SAYS THAT HE WILL TALK

AGAINST THE STRONGEST OF FORTRESSES .

DAN 11:39
Claiming this foreign god's help, he will attack the strongest fortresses. He will honor those who submit to him, appointing them to positions of authority and dividing the land among them as their reward.

Da 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

CherubRam
November 14th, 2014, 11:38 AM
This is your brain on sola scriptura.

All of CherubRam's posts are great examples of that, actually.
The bible is self correcting for those who know what to look for. Get a clue! The added word HELL in scriptures makes God a liar. Wouldn't you say that is a problem?

CherubRam
November 14th, 2014, 11:40 AM
Why would Death and Hell need to be cast into the Lake of Fire? Simply because they are enemies of God and living spirits (rulers of the darkness of this world) and need to be punished. The last enemy that shall be defeated is Death. We will bring him to his knees with our faith in God's ability to raise the dead. We will cause Death to no longer be able to do his job.

And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

When we have brought Death to his knees with our faith, our job of subduing Christ's enemies will be complete and He will return for a glorious and victorious church.

This verse: "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them." It is about being on life support.

CherubRam
November 14th, 2014, 11:43 AM
The story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable. Would've saved you trouble to have begun with that.
It is a problem because it contradicts God and scriptures.

Zeke
November 14th, 2014, 01:00 PM
In regards to: The Rich Man and Lazarus. Luke 16:19-31

Theophilus is the name or honorary title of the person to whom the Gospel of Luke and the Acts of the Apostles are addressed (Luke 1:3, Acts 1:1)

It is unanimously agreed that both Luke and Acts were originally written in Koine Greek, and that "Theophilos," as it appears therein, means friend of God or (be)loved by God or loving God in the Greek language.

No one knows the true identity of Theophilus who wrote the story, and there are more than several conjectures and traditions around an identity.
In all there are about eight traditions based upon that story. Again I say: Hell has never been a doctrinal belief in Judaism.

Don't you think if Yahshua was to introduce a new doctrine that he would at least explain the story?


Hades ( /ˈheɪdiːz/; from Greek ᾍδης (older form Ἀϝίδης), Hadēs, originally Ἅιδης, Haidēs or Άΐδης, Aidēs (Doric Ἀΐδας Aidas), meaning "the unseen") was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. The genitive ᾍδου, Haidou, was an elision to denote locality: "[the house/dominion] of Hades". Eventually, the nominative came to designate the abode of the dead.

In Greek mythology, Hades is the oldest male child of Cronus and Rhea. According to myth, he and his brothers Zeus and Poseidon defeated the Titans and claimed rulership over the cosmos, ruling the underworld, air, and sea, respectively; the solid earth, long the province of Gaia, was available to all three concurrently.

Hades was also called "Plouton" (Greek: Πλούτων, gen.: Πλούτωνος, meaning "Rich One"), a name which the Romans Latinized as Pluto. The Romans would associate Hades/Pluto with their own chthonic gods, Dis Pater and Orcus. The corresponding Etruscan god was Aita. Symbols associated with him are the Helm of Darkness, the bident and the three-headed dog, Cerberus.


KJV
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

The words "torment throughout eternity" is not relevant, because in the second death, hades and death are done away with. Most likely the word "grave" was replaced with the word "Hades."

In English usage the word "Hades" first appears around 1600, as a term used to explain the article in the Apostles' Creed, "He descended into hell", where the place of waiting (the place of "the spirits in prison" 1 Peter 3:19 KJV) into which Yahshua is there affirmed to have gone after the Crucifixion needed to be distinguished from what had come to be more usually called "hell," the place or state of those finally damned.

God does not torture living beings in Hell.

Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Since Hell or Hades are done away with, there can be no eternal punishment, other than the condemed are cut off from the living for all eternity. Do you see what I am saying? In other words there is no one alive in a place called Hades. Scriptures say that God takes their life away from them. If there were a place called Hades with living being in it, then God lied, and the serpent told the truth.

I'm making a point, and I am not calling God a liar.

Because people die, unless saved by God, that means that life in Hades is a lie of the serpent. The serpent doctrine is that there is life in Hades, and people are being tortured for all eternity. That is a lie. Scriptures are written in such a way that they are self-correcting. The Catholics were from the Gnostic mystery schools, they believed in Hell and Trinitarianism. The Catholics killed off the original Christians, and replaced their scriptures with their own versions.

Daniel 8:12
Because of rebellion, the LORD’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
Scripture is God's truth.


Catholic Gnosticism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

Just a reminder that it was the Catholic Church that canonized scripture.


The Rich Man And Lazarus With Commentary.
Luke 16:19. "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
Wealth, comfort, poverty, and suffering have nothing to do with a person’s salvation.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
The word messenger is replaced with the word angel. And assuming that this is a parable, there would be no need for Lazarus to be carried to Abraham, and before the resurrection. As for being in Hell and torment and agony; that contradicts the verse that says the dead know nothing. It also is a contradiction where scripture says that Yahwah kills the condemned. In regards to the water on the finger; that would evaporate before it even got to a person. It also contradicts where God said “you will surly die.”

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

Again I say to you that wealth and poverty has nothing to do with the resurrection of the righteous. There is one truth in all of this, and that there is a chasm that has been set in place; and that is called death of the condemned, which are killed by Yahwah. There is no life for them afterward.

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

29"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

30" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
31"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

These are obviously the words of a dim wit, and not the words of an ancient being. No place in these verses is credit given to Yahwah, but only to Moses and the prophets; which would be unlike Yahshua to exclude Yahwah in matters of life and death.

Hell is a pagan belief and part of the Pagan religion. Why would Yahshua use a nonexistent biblical teaching for which he never explains afterward? Before the return from Babylon, Judaism never taught the concept of hell. After the return from Babylon the Hellenistic and Kabbalistic Jews began to introduce Hell into Judaism.

Yahshua never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in other legitimate parables.
Yahshua, being an ancient being full of knowledge and wisdom, would have had the good sense to explain the new concept. Obviously the story of “The Rich Man and Lazarus” are the words of some man introducing the Pagan concept of Hell.

If it is true that there will be people ALIVE in Hell, Then God lied, and the Serpent told the truth. The word "Hell" added to scripture replacing the words grave, pit, and Gehenna. God is not a liar.

Genesis 2:17
...but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."


Genesis 3:3
...but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "


Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.


Now who is telling the truth, God or the Serpent? According to scripture the Serpent is telling the truth. By adding the word Hell to scriptures it looks as if the Serpent is telling the truth. Hell is a place for God to torture LIVING BEINGS for all eternity.


The Hebrew word Sheol literally means grave, not Hell. Is there LIFE in Hell? God says that man will surely die, and the Serpent says that man will not surely die.

The Pagans teach that there is life in Hell. God says there is death. And Yahshua also said that God can destroy both body and spirit.


Romans 1:32. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”


Matthew 10:28
And do not fear them which can kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in [hell / Gehenna.]


Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.


Job 27:8
For what hope have the godless when they are cut off, when God takes away their life?


As we all know the bible uses many parables. There is no real Hell, that word was put into scriptures by the Gnostic Pagans. Words like grave, pit, and Gehenna were replaced with the word hell. Those who are condemned to destruction never return. They are cut off for all eternity, never to live again.

The number of times "Hell" appears in the English Bible
Translations


Bible Translations
Old Testament
New Testament
Total's
"Authorized" King James Version
31
23
54
New King James Version
19
13
32
American Standard Version
0
13
13
New American Standard Bible
0
13
13
Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
New Revised Standard Version
0
12
12
Revised English Bible
0
13
13
New Living Translation
0
13
13
Amplified
0
13
13
New International Version (best-selling English Bible)
0
14
14
Darby
0
12
12
New Century Version
0
12
12
Wesley's New Testament (1755)

0
0
Scarlett's N.T. (1798)

0
0
The New Testament in Greek and English (Kneeland, 1823)

0
0
Young's Literal Translation (1891)
0
0
0
Twentieth Century New Testament (1900)

0
0
Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (reprinted, 1902)
0
0
0
Fenton's Holy Bible in Modern English (1903)
0
0
0
Weymouth's New Testament in Modern Speech (1903)

0
0
Jewish Publication Society Bible Old Testament (1917)
0

0
Panin's Numeric English New Testament (1914)

0
0
The People's New Covenant (Overbury, 1925)

0
0
Hanson's New Covenant (1884)

0
0
Western N.T. (1926)

0
0
NT of our Lord and Savior Anointed (Tomanek, 1958)

0
0
Concordant Literal NT (1983)

0
0
The N.T., A Translation (Clementson, 1938)

0
0
Emphatic Diaglott, Greek/English Interlinear (Wilson, 1942)

0
0
New American Bible (1970)
0
0
0
Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible (1976)
0
0
0
Tanakh. The Holy Scriptures, Old Testament (1985)
0

0
The New Testament, A New Translation (Greber, 1980)

0
0
Christian Bible (1991)
0
0
0
World English Bible (in progress)
0
0
0
Original Bible Project (Dr. James Tabor, still in translation)

0
0
0
Zondervan Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1975)

0
0
Int. NASB-NIV Parallel N.T. in Greek and English (1993)**

0
0


The word hell was not originally in the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic text, as the so called biased translators have tried to establish it as scripture; but they were not good enough to cover up the reality of what God is saying. The source of this word hell and the concept of eternal torture is not Christian, but Pagan. You can find it in Babylon, in Greece, and especially Rome. But if you dig a little bit deeper you will see that it is bad translations that have infected this doctrine of Damnation in scriptures. As a matter of fact, scripture teaches the opposite.


ALL will see Gods salvation, even the condemned on the day of judgment. However, salvation is for the Elect of God, but the condemned will die because they did not seek God or repent. Death is their punishment. Sad but true. In regards to Romans 5: "All" is not everyone, but everyone saved. The condemned still are cut off from the living in death for all eternity.

Hell is more than a mistranslation, it's a premeditated deliberate assault on scripture to introduce the Teutonic pagan word.

Tar-ta-rus (tartarus) [[ Gr Tartaros ]] Gr. Myth. 1. An infernal abyss below Hades, where Zeus hurls the rebel Titans, later a place of punishment for the demons and devils. (mentioned only once in the Bible)

Ha-des (hadez) [[Gr Haides ]] 1 Gr. Myth. a. The home of the dead, beneath the earth. b The god of the underworld. 2. Bible: The state or resting place of the dead: name used in some modern translations of the New Testament

She-ol (sheol) [[Heb shaal , to dig]] A place in the depths of the earth conceived of as the dwelling of the dead. Note: In the KJV about half of scriptures are translated as hell, the other half as grave.

Gehenna: Mentioned twelve or thirteen times in the bible. Gehenna: Referring to the Valley of Hinnom, or Gehenna which is the city dump outside the walls of Jerusalem; it then was a place of constant burning of refuge.

Topheth is believed to be a location in Jerusalem, in the Valley of Hinnom, where the Canaanites sacrificed children to the god Moloch by burning them alive.

Isaiah 30:33
Topheth has long been prepared; it has been made ready for the king. Its fire pit has been made deep and wide, with an abundance of fire and wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of burning sulfur, sets it ablaze.

Jeremiah 7:31-32
They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room.

Deuteronomy 13:1-5
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

Hades was the ancient Greek god of the underworld.

Jeremiah 19:13-15
The houses in Jerusalem and those of the kings of Judah will be defiled like this place, Topheth—all the houses where they burned incense on the roofs to all the starry hosts and poured out drink offerings to other gods.' "

Jeremiah then returned from Topheth, where the LORD had sent him to prophesy, and stood in the court of the LORD's temple and said to all the people, "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: 'Listen! I am going to bring on this city and the villages around it every disaster I pronounced against them, because they were stiff-necked and would not listen to my words.' "

That is Gehenna Judgment that Yahshua came and warned Israel about.

Matthew 23:29-39
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to [Hell / Gehenna?] Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of (the Lord / Yahwah.')

Jeremiah 7:33-34
" 'The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the LORD. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it. They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room. Then the carcasses of this people will become food for the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and there will be no one to frighten them away. I will bring an end to the sounds of joy and gladness and to the voices of bride and bridegroom in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, for the land will become desolate.

We do not worship a God who is without mercy or who tortures people for all eternity.

John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.


Gehenna and Hades are not interchangeable, they are two different places. There is no Hell!

The concept of Hell is part of the Pagan religion. The reason you see the word Hell in the New Testament, is because it was introduced into scripture by the Catholic Church. However, there is death of the body and spirit. Our bodies are mortal, and our spirits are mortal. And if God never called us back into being, we would never live again. And where Yahshua said: “have you not heard, you are gods.” That is based upon the promise of believing that Yahshua is the way to the truth and life: By the way, it is hidden in scripture that God is the Truth and Life. Also we must keep Gods commandments because they were not done away with. It was Moses laws that were written in stone by Joshua that were done away with. Don’t forget the bible uses many parables.

Are the words you are reading a translation, or an interpretation? What you are taught as Christians depends on whose team you’re on.

Wabbit trails, the letter does something to the spirit, Oh yea it kills it, allegorically that is.

Sealeaf
November 14th, 2014, 01:03 PM
Cherubram: You have reasoned your way into error. You are wrong. There is and must be a hell. It is a logical necessity. We all wish it were not so. I strongly suspect that even God wishes it were not so. The very act of creation of a universe that contains beings with free will makes "Hell", Gehenna, the waste dump, what ever name you wish to call it, a necessity.

You have reasoned your way into making all of scripture false and you do not trust the fathers of the church, so I will not call on either of these authorities.

Science also declares you to be in error. Relativity theory shows us that time is not a sequence of events but a dimension. The consequence of this is that the past is as real as the present. Nothing is ever destroyed. Everything that ever was is written permanently on the fabric of reality. Our death does not destroy us. The wave front of Now has just passed beyond the part of the universe we inhabit. But we are still there. We are written permanently into the story of creation.

God exists, at least in part, outside the universe, outside time, since time is part of the universe. He sees it all as "Now". He sees us all as alive. Scripture tells you that He is the God of the living, not the dead. From His point of view there are no "dead".

Now I propose that God is not a fool. He did not go to all the trouble of creation and redemption for no reason. He is up to something. He has a project. He has something He is working toward. We in as much or little as we are the culmination of the development of creation, have a part to play in His project. I see the universe as a factory or a garden, a place where God is making or growing the parts and tools He needs for His project.

He will chose from all of creation those of us that have made ourselves into tools He can use. It is obvious that not all humans are acceptable to God. We may differ as to just how strict His criteria are. ( Personally, I am hoping He has very loose standards.) But most everyone agrees there are some who will not make the cut. What happens to them? They can't be destroyed. The universe just is not set up in a way that makes destruction possible.

Those not chosen are discarded. Thrown into the trash. God does not want you to be there, but if you insist on making yourself useless to Him, that is where you will have to go. God is not punishing you but you have made yourself into a two headed nail. There is no way to use you. To be useless to God is the very worst thing that can happen to a human. It is worse than being burned, frozen, tortured in what ever way you can imagine and it does not end, because nothing can end, it is all permanent. We are all playing for keeps. There are no do overs. Except, perhaps, for those lucky enough to qualify for Purgatory.

Zeke
November 14th, 2014, 01:06 PM
Matthew 8:22 which means to follow Jesus (the innerman neither male or female) into the real kingdom where God dwells in temples made without literal hands, Acts 17:24, Luke 17:20-21.

Spitfire
November 14th, 2014, 01:15 PM
The bible is self correcting for those who know what to look for. Get a clue! The added word HELL in scriptures makes God a liar. Wouldn't you say that is a problem?It only says that in English Bibles. If that's a problem for you, you should just stop reading the Bible in English. I'm pretty sure I've made this suggestion before. It doesn't bother me, however, because I know it corresponds to the everlasting fire of Matthew 25:41, the exterior darkness apart from God in Matthew 25:30, and the pool of fire in Revelation 20 where the false prophet will be tormented forever and ever along with all the others cast into the same place. Call it whatever you want. What you choose to call it doesn't change anything.

CherubRam
November 14th, 2014, 01:54 PM
It only says that in English Bibles. If that's a problem for you, you should just stop reading the Bible in English. I'm pretty sure I've made this suggestion before. It doesn't bother me, however, because I know it corresponds to the everlasting fire of Matthew 25:41, the exterior darkness apart from God in Matthew 25:30, and the pool of fire in Revelation 20 where the false prophet will be tormented forever and ever along with all the others cast into the same place. Call it whatever you want. What you choose to call it doesn't change anything.
HELL is not a belief in Judaism. Why would the Messiah introduce the Pagan belief in Hell and not give an explanation? Eternal torture is also a contradiction to the words of God. Did the SERPENT tell the truth and God lied. If there is a Hell, then that makes God a liar, and the Serpent told the truth.
The Serpent tells us that we will not surly die. That is the Serpent doctrine.

Genesis 3
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

CherubRam
November 14th, 2014, 01:58 PM
Cherubram: You have reasoned your way into error. You are wrong. There is and must be a hell. It is a logical necessity. We all wish it were not so. I strongly suspect that even God wishes it were not so. The very act of creation of a universe that contains beings with free will makes "Hell", Gehenna, the waste dump, what ever name you wish to call it, a necessity.

You have reasoned your way into making all of scripture false and you do not trust the fathers of the church, so I will not call on either of these authorities.

Science also declares you to be in error. Relativity theory shows us that time is not a sequence of events but a dimension. The consequence of this is that the past is as real as the present. Nothing is ever destroyed. Everything that ever was is written permanently on the fabric of reality. Our death does not destroy us. The wave front of Now has just passed beyond the part of the universe we inhabit. But we are still there. We are written permanently into the story of creation.

God exists, at least in part, outside the universe, outside time, since time is part of the universe. He sees it all as "Now". He sees us all as alive. Scripture tells you that He is the God of the living, not the dead. From His point of view there are no "dead".

Now I propose that God is not a fool. He did not go to all the trouble of creation and redemption for no reason. He is up to something. He has a project. He has something He is working toward. We in as much or little as we are the culmination of the development of creation, have a part to play in His project. I see the universe as a factory or a garden, a place where God is making or growing the parts and tools He needs for His project.

He will chose from all of creation those of us that have made ourselves into tools He can use. It is obvious that not all humans are acceptable to God. We may differ as to just how strict His criteria are. ( Personally, I am hoping He has very loose standards.) But most everyone agrees there are some who will not make the cut. What happens to them? They can't be destroyed. The universe just is not set up in a way that makes destruction possible.

Those not chosen are discarded. Thrown into the trash. God does not want you to be there, but if you insist on making yourself useless to Him, that is where you will have to go. God is not punishing you but you have made yourself into a two headed nail. There is no way to use you. To be useless to God is the very worst thing that can happen to a human. It is worse than being burned, frozen, tortured in what ever way you can imagine and it does not end, because nothing can end, it is all permanent. We are all playing for keeps. There are no do overs. Except, perhaps, for those lucky enough to qualify for Purgatory.

The words Gehenna, grave, and pit do not translate as Hell. Gehenna is a parabolic word that means destruction. Are you guys reading what I write?

Grosnick Marowbe
November 14th, 2014, 02:00 PM
oooh , Cut and Paste my favourite thing to do.

Actually , Hell is just a Very Large Garbage dump using the Oil in Saudi Arabia

where you guys will be working burning all the Garbage from the Macdonalds Kids meals....lol

Do you have ANY Brain matter inside your skull?

Aimiel
November 14th, 2014, 03:47 PM
This verse:"And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them." It is about being on life support.:dizzy:

Aimiel
November 14th, 2014, 04:06 PM
HELL is not a belief in Judaism. What does Judaism have to do with the Christian belief in hell?
Why would the Messiah introduce the Pagan belief in Hell and not give an explanation? He didn't. He explained that the Lake of Fire is torment forever for all those who worship the Beast and his image.
Eternal torture is also a contradiction to the words of God. How so?
Did the SERPENT tell the truth and God lied. If there is a Hell, then that makes God a liar, and the Serpent told the truth. The Serpent tells us that we will not surly die. That is the Serpent doctrine.

Genesis 3
4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”Did Adam and Eve die when they ate the fruit? Of course not. They died spiritually. They will have NO LIFE in their spirit without being born again, just as everyone who has lived since them. Those subject to judgment will not have re-generated spirits, but their body and soul will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire to be tormented eternally. If they were put to death a second time it would make God a liar.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

Being cast into eternal torment is called 'second death' because it is the end of life as men know it:

Life = "the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death: "

In the Lake of Fire there will be flames, darkness and worms but no growth, reproduction, functional activity or any change whatsoever.

CherubRam
November 14th, 2014, 08:10 PM
What does Judaism have to do with the Christian belief in hell?He didn't. He explained that the Lake of Fire is torment forever for all those who worship the Beast and his image.How so? Did Adam and Eve die when they ate the fruit? Of course not. They died spiritually. They will have NO LIFE in their spirit without being born again, just as everyone who has lived since them. Those subject to judgment will not have re-generated spirits, but their body and soul will be cast alive into the Lake of Fire to be tormented eternally. If they were put to death a second time it would make God a liar.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

Being cast into eternal torment is called 'second death' because it is the end of life as men know it:

Life = "the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death: "

In the Lake of Fire there will be flames, darkness and worms but no growth, reproduction, functional activity or any change whatsoever.
Judaism is the bases of Christianity. If the was no Judaism, then there would be no Christianity. Christianity is founded upon Judaism.
The word HELL is not scriptural, it is a Pagan belief that has been added to scriptures.

Aimiel
November 14th, 2014, 08:38 PM
Um, no... Christianity is founded upon Christ. He is The Rock, not Moses or even Abraham.

Hell is from the New Testament. Has yours been edited? Are you in a cult?

OCTOBER23
November 14th, 2014, 08:46 PM
Goosneck said,

Do you have ANY Brain matter inside your skull?
------------------------------------------------------

Goosnek is just a guy who thinks that he is the most important person here.

He does not know his bible, that is for sure or else he would have known

Gehenna was a Garabage dump just outside Jerusalem where they burnt

garbage and old bodies of the dead.

The Pharisees were insulted by him and thus planned to kill him.
--------------------------------------------------------------

1067 γέεννα geenna of Hebrew origin

AV- hell fire

1) "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom,

south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned;

a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!

ye make him twofold more the child of hell <1067> than yourselves.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

CherubRam
November 14th, 2014, 09:03 PM
Um, no... Christianity is founded upon Christ. He is The Rock, not Moses or even Abraham.

Hell is from the New Testament. Has yours been edited? Are you in a cult?
Judaize

YLT
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they are not walking uprightly to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before all, `If thou, being a Jew, in the manner of the nations dost live, and not in the manner of the Jews, how the nations dost thou compel to Judaize?


Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not walking uprightly according to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before everyone, If you, being a Jew live in the manner of the nations, and not in the manner of the Jews, then how will you compel the nations to Judaize?

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism.

CherubRam
November 14th, 2014, 09:05 PM
Um, no... Christianity is founded upon Christ. He is The Rock, not Moses or even Abraham.

Hell is from the New Testament. Has yours been edited? Are you in a cult?

Hell is not in the original scriptures, it has been added.

Aimiel
November 14th, 2014, 09:59 PM
Okay. :dizzy:

keypurr
November 15th, 2014, 06:35 PM
Hell is not in the original scriptures, it has been added.

I found your post very informative. Thanks.

CherubRam
November 15th, 2014, 09:00 PM
I found your post very informative. Thanks.
Thank you. With some of the replies I get, I wonder if I am doing any good.

Aimiel
November 16th, 2014, 04:30 PM
Judaize

YLT
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they are not walking uprightly to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before all, `If thou, being a Jew, in the manner of the nations dost live, and not in the manner of the Jews, how the nations dost thou compel to Judaize?


Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not walking uprightly according to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before everyone, If you, being a Jew live in the manner of the nations, and not in the manner of the Jews, then how will you compel the nations to Judaize?

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Before people were called Christians they were called converts to Judaism.No. The error of Peter was being corrected...

But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

NO ONE is justified by works. Peter erred on several matters that Jesus and Paul corrected. We need to learn from these errors, just as Peter did.

Daniel1611
November 16th, 2014, 05:17 PM
Hell has been added? So you're saying the Bible is not the word of God? Then why believe any of it?

john w
November 16th, 2014, 05:28 PM
.....
The word hell was not originally in the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic text,...


Ignore this poser, as no one, for thousands of years, has seen these "originally in the Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic text"'s, as he/she is trying to bamboozle you, the "original" texts having "bit the dust," almost as soon as "the ink dried"(including the "original" "Ten Commandments.").

And no one would be able to tell, whether any purported "originals," were said "originals." Just how you be able to do that? Compare them with what?

Log in, lose your mind.

john w
November 16th, 2014, 05:34 PM
Hell is not in the original scriptures, it has been added.

You have "the original scriptures?"

PM me, and send me your phone #, and address, as I'm prepared to offer you $598,876. 56, for these "the original scriptures." Of course, I'm sure you understand, that I'll need proof of authenticity. That shouldn't be a problem for you, given your statements within this thread.

Deal? Let me know, as I need to make the financial arrangements, and flight plans, depending on in what part of the country you live.

CherubRam
November 16th, 2014, 07:09 PM
No. The error of Peter was being corrected...

But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

NO ONE is justified by works. Peter erred on several matters that Jesus and Paul corrected. We need to learn from these errors, just as Peter did.

And faith without works is a dead faith.

CherubRam
November 16th, 2014, 07:11 PM
You have "the original scriptures?"

PM me, and send me your phone #, and address, as I'm prepared to offer you $598,876. 56, for these "the original scriptures." Of course, I'm sure you understand, that I'll need proof of authenticity. That shouldn't be a problem for you, given your statements within this thread.

Deal? Let me know, as I need to make the financial arrangements, and flight plans, depending on in what part of the country you live.
You can find the original Greek scripts online.

Sealeaf
November 16th, 2014, 08:11 PM
The words Gehenna, grave, and pit do not translate as Hell. Gehenna is a parabolic word that means destruction. Are you guys reading what I write?
Unfortunately we do read it. The message we are giving you is that most of what you write are wrong conclusions based on misinterpretation of scriptures that don't apply to the subject at hand.
You never grappled at all with the point I brought up. That it is impossible for anything to be destroyed. Therefore anyone who is not chosen by God must be left on to the trash heap. It does not matter if the ancient Jews understood this or not. It does not matter if they or anyone else had a word for it. It is a logical necessity. What word is used for it is the least important thing.

CherubRam
November 16th, 2014, 08:22 PM
Unfortunately we do read it. The message we are giving you is that most of what you write are wrong conclusions based on misinterpretation of scriptures that don't apply to the subject at hand.
You never grappled at all with the point I brought up. That it is impossible for anything to be destroyed. Therefore anyone who is not chosen by God must be left on to the trash heap. It does not matter if the ancient Jews understood this or not. It does not matter if they or anyone else had a word for it. It is a logical necessity. What word is used for it is the least important thing.
You are beyond logic.

john w
November 16th, 2014, 08:34 PM
You can find the original Greek scripts online.

1.Observe, the deception-"originally"(you taught me that), you "argued:"

"Hell is not in the original scriptures, it has been added.

Now, in a "subtil"(Genesis 3 KJV)manner, you change it to "the original Greek scripts online."

2. And you compound your error/deception, as there is no such thing as "the" "original" Greek "scripts" online, as there are at least 30 Greek Ms.

You're lying, as do not know what you are talking about-you merely read all this jazz online, and you still screwed it up.

Poser. Have a seat.

CherubRam
November 16th, 2014, 08:39 PM
1.Observe, the deception-"originally"(you taught me that), you "argued:"

"Hell is not in the original scriptures, it has been added.

Now, in a "subtil"(Genesis 3 KJV)manner, you change it to "the original Greek scripts online."

2. And you compound your error/deception, as there is no such thing as "the" "original" Greek "scripts" online, as there are at least 30 Greek Ms.

You're lying, as do not know what you are talking about-you merely read all this jazz online, and you still screwed it up.

Poser. Have a seat.

You need to buy yourself an NIV Exhaustive Concordance.

john w
November 16th, 2014, 08:59 PM
You need to buy yourself an NIV Exhaustive Concordance.

Irrelevant. That is not what you "argued:"

"Hell is not in the original scriptures, it has been added.", which morphed into...

"the original Greek scripts online."

You have no "the original scriptures,"and there is no such thing as "the" "original" Greek "scripts" online, as there are at least 30 Greek Ms.

You're lying, as do not know what you are talking about-you merely read all this jazz online, and you still screwed it up.

Poser. Have a seat.

CherubRam
November 16th, 2014, 10:33 PM
Irrelevant. That is not what you "argued:"

"Hell is not in the original scriptures, it has been added.", which morphed into...

"the original Greek scripts online."

You have no "the original scriptures,"and there is no such thing as "the" "original" Greek "scripts" online, as there are at least 30 Greek Ms.

You're lying, as do not know what you are talking about-you merely read all this jazz online, and you still screwed it up.

Poser. Have a seat.

Gehenna Sheol Tomb Grave Sepulcher Hades Hell

Gehenna
The word Gehenna in English is גֵיא בֶן־הִנֹּם or גיא בן-הינום in Hebrew.

Sheol
The word Sheol in English is שְׁאוֹל in Hebrew

Tomb, Grave, Sepulcher
The English word “tomb” is τάφος in Greek.
The English word “grave” is Ταφικός or τύμβος in Greek.
The English word "sepulcher" is μνήμα in Greek.

Hell
The English word "Hell" is κόλαση, διάολο, κόλασης, Κολάσεως in the different Greek forms.

Hades
The English word "Hades" is άδης, Άδη, τον Άδη, ο Άδης in the different Greek forms.

As a person can see the Greek words Hell and Grave are not the same.

john w
November 16th, 2014, 11:49 PM
Gehenna Sheol Tomb Grave Sepulcher Hades Hell

Gehenna
The word Gehenna in English is גֵיא בֶן־הִנֹּם or גיא בן-הינום in Hebrew.

Sheol
The word Sheol in English is שְׁאוֹל in Hebrew

Tomb, Grave, Sepulcher
The English word “tomb” is τάφος in Greek.
The English word “grave” is Ταφικός or τύμβος in Greek.
The English word "sepulcher" is μνήμα in Greek.

Hell
The English word "Hell" is κόλαση, διάολο, κόλασης, Κολάσεως in the different Greek forms.

Hades
The English word "Hades" is άδης, Άδη, τον Άδη, ο Άδης in the different Greek forms.

As a person can see the Greek words Hell and Grave are not the same.




Where did you learn this "the Greek," Mikey? Let me guess: From the back of your "Captain Crunch Cereal" box, a "How to Learn 'the' Greek in 2 1/3 Days, and Impress Your Friends" internet course, or "The U. of Phoenix" online?

Poser. Fraud. Attempting to be so "scholarly." Most of us have seen this before-you act like this is "original" to you. We are laughing.

Irrelevant. That is not what you "argued:"

"Hell is not in the original scriptures, it has been added.", which morphed into...

"the original Greek scripts online."

You have no "the original scriptures,"and there is no such thing as "the" "original" Greek "scripts" online, as there are at least 30 Greek Ms.

You're lying, as do not know what you are talking about-you merely read all this jazz online, and you still screwed it up.

Poser. Sit down..

CherubRam
November 17th, 2014, 03:22 AM
Scripture4All is free software. You can read the Greek for yourself, it is even translated for you: http://www.scripture4all.org/

Here is a sample preview in the Hebrew so you can see what the program looks like: http://www.scripture4all.org/ISA2_preview/ISA2_preview_6a.html

MichaelCadry
November 17th, 2014, 03:36 AM
Dear CherubRam,

Keep on hoping and dreaming. You don't know what's going on and I don't have the desire to tell you. You have it to read. Digest it as you will and at your own expense. Our God is not a mythological god. Funny, that gets rid of Hades. I could go on, but I just don't give a.

Michael

CherubRam
November 17th, 2014, 05:52 AM
Dear CherubRam,

Keep on hoping and dreaming. You don't know what's going on and I don't have the desire to tell you. You have it to read. Digest it as you will and at your own expense. Our God is not a mythological god. Funny, that gets rid of Hades. I could go on, but I just don't give a.

Michael
I noticed that there are people here that have the sin of misaligning a persons words. You should pray about that.

CherubRam
November 18th, 2014, 02:49 AM
I have noticed that there are people here, who are absorbed by the fact that I copy and paste relevant scripture and text. This is done to form the bases of fact for a subject being discussed. If you still do not understand then perhaps you can ask your Mommy or Daddy to explain it to you.

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 05:32 AM
I have noticed that there are people here, who are absorbed by the fact that I copy and paste relevant scripture and text. This is done to form the bases of fact for a subject being discussed. If you still do not understand then perhaps you can ask your Mommy or Daddy to explain it to you.Maybe your mommy and daddy might one day teach you that, "bases," and, "basis," are different words and mean different things. Perhaps, if you have a brain, you might even one day write something that is unique and relevant all by yourself.

CherubRam
November 18th, 2014, 11:25 AM
Maybe your mommy and daddy might one day teach you that, "bases," and, "basis," are different words and mean different things. Perhaps, if you have a brain, you might even one day write something that is unique and relevant all by yourself.
I did mean base as in a home plate in baseball.

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 12:45 PM
So you are re-inventing English as well as doctrine then? Okay, I understand. :kookoo:

OCTOBER23
November 18th, 2014, 01:11 PM
There is no Hell - November 13th, 2014
------------------------------------------------

Since, there is NO HELL then You can all go to NOWHERE

CherubRam
November 18th, 2014, 01:39 PM
So you are re-inventing English as well as doctrine then? Okay, I understand. :kookoo:
Basis is a expression of thought, a nontangible. A particular group of bible quotes in regards to the same subject, are bases of a subject. The written word is a tangible. One is a tangible, and the other is not.

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 01:45 PM
So, where is home plate? ... and Who's on first.

CherubRam
November 18th, 2014, 01:56 PM
There is no Hell - November 13th, 2014
------------------------------------------------

Since, there is NO HELL then You can all go to NOWHERE

There is life, and there is death. The damned die a second death. Upon judgment day all that had lived are called back into being. The forgiven go on to life immortal, where as the damned are cut off from life for all eternity. Lake of fire is parabolic for a body of people judged unfavorably. Lake = Body of people. Fire = Judgment.

CherubRam
November 18th, 2014, 01:59 PM
So, where is home plate? ... and Who's on first.

Heaven is home plate, and Michael is on first base. Yahshua already made it back to home.

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 02:13 PM
There is life, and there is death. The damned die a second death. Upon judgment day all that had lived are called back into being. The forgiven go on to life immortal, where as the damned are cut off from life for all eternity. Lake of fire is parabolic for a body of people judged unfavorably. Lake = Body of people. Fire = Judgment.If the Lake of Fire were symbolic, then why state that humans would be tormented for ever and ever in The Holy Scriptures? God doesn't lie. His Word is Truth. You need to buy a clue.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 02:14 PM
Heaven is home plate, and Michael is on first base. Yahshua already made it back to home.Do you mean: "Jesus?"

CherubRam
November 18th, 2014, 02:49 PM
If the Lake of Fire were symbolic, then why state that humans would be tormented for ever and ever in The Holy Scriptures? God doesn't lie. His Word is Truth. You need to buy a clue.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The word "torment" is a contradiction to all other scriptures. The word "Hell" is also a contradiction to what scriptures say. You want to teach what the bibles says, but you do not want to spend any time or money studying, or buying study books; such as an Exhaustive Concordance.

CherubRam
November 18th, 2014, 02:56 PM
Do you mean: "Jesus?"

The name Jesus is a modern day invention. In modern day English his name is Joshua. The Hebrew to English translation of that is Yahshua. Hebrew scribes changed the Hebrew language between the years of 167 BC to 900 AD.

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 02:56 PM
The word "torment" is a contradiction to all other scriptures. The word "Hell" is also a contradiction to what scriptures say. You want to teach what the bibles says, but you do not want to spend any time or money studying, or buying study books; such as an Exhaustive Concordance.

Yeah. Whatever. I guess that with reasoning like that you could explain away ALL sound doctrine. :duh:

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 02:57 PM
The name Jesus is a modern day invention. In modern day English his name is Joshua. The Hebrew to English translation of that is Yahshua. Hebrew scribes changed the Hebrew language between the years of 167 BC to 900 AD.Contemporary humans call Him: "Jesus."

CherubRam
November 18th, 2014, 03:20 PM
Yeah. Whatever. I guess that with reasoning like that you could explain away ALL sound doctrine. :duh:


Contemporary humans call Him: "Jesus."

Yah / shua
Jesus: The English form "Jesus" was not seen nor spoken until after the year 1525,
when Sir William Tyndale a Protestant Reformer from Oxford, England invented it!
His name in English is Yahshua.

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 07:32 PM
You don't get out much, do you?

Daniel1611
November 18th, 2014, 07:41 PM
Do you mean: "Jesus?"

This. Thank you, Aimiel. When I hear people talking about "Yeshua" or "Yehashua" or whatever they say, I start to tune out. People that say this are pretentious. They're acting like they know something because they're using this name. If Yeshua is the name we should call Jesus, then why is he NOT called this name in the Bible? The Biblical authors did not call Jesus by these names. In the Bible, his name is called Iesous in the Greek. In English we say it as Jesus. In other languages they say it as it sounds in their language. If we were to call Jesus by Yehashua, the NT authors would have referred to him by this name.

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 09:32 PM
When I see a Messianic Jew calling Him, "Yeshua," I acquiesce, because he's using the Hebrew every day and it's natural. Others, it's merely religious pretension. They know things 'about' God rather than know Him. They have only a 'form' of godliness, without The Power of God in their lives.

CherubRam
November 18th, 2014, 10:11 PM
You don't get out much, do you?

I spend my time and money on knowing the bible. It gives my life meaning and purpose.

Aimiel
November 18th, 2014, 11:22 PM
I spend my time and money on knowing the bible. It gives my life meaning and purpose.Then your god is in your head. If you were to seek and search for God with all of your heart, then you would find Him. He promised:

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

But, alas, you only want to know 'about' Him. Yes: even knowing every single thing which He has revealed is completely meaningless if you don't know Him. You don't. You need to turn your heart to Him, not your own knowledge. You are on the throne of your life, not God. Your idol is your own thoughts, not The One True God. He can give meaning and purpose that you haven't yet imagined. His Gifts are endless.

MichaelCadry
November 19th, 2014, 01:22 AM
Dear CherubRam,

There is no Hell?? You go ahead and keep believing that. There is a Hell, and it will be cast into the Lake of Fire after the Second Death. You've got Tons to Learn yet. See Rev. 20:13. "And death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire..."

I don't know that I'll be back this way again. Just wanted to let you know what you don't yet.

God Be With You,

Michael

CherubRam
November 19th, 2014, 04:08 AM
Then your god is in your head. If you were to seek and search for God with all of your heart, then you would find Him. He promised:

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

But, alas, you only want to know 'about' Him. Yes: even knowing every single thing which He has revealed is completely meaningless if you don't know Him. You don't. You need to turn your heart to Him, not your own knowledge. You are on the throne of your life, not God. Your idol is your own thoughts, not The One True God. He can give meaning and purpose that you haven't yet imagined. His Gifts are endless.


Dear CherubRam,

There is no Hell?? You go ahead and keep believing that. There is a Hell, and it will be cast into the Lake of Fire after the Second Death. You've got Tons to Learn yet. See Rev. 20:13. "And death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire..."

I don't know that I'll be back this way again. Just wanted to let you know what you don't yet.

God Be With You,

Michael

You guys certainly are self-righteous and judgmental. You hardly know what is in the actual scriptures, and yet you want to do the teaching. Don't you know that it is a sin to join Paganism to your Holy Father?

JosephR
November 19th, 2014, 04:18 AM
Thank you. With some of the replies I get, I wonder if I am doing any good.

depends on what is good....

I get a sense of how you feel, it seems you are more learned then me,but we think along the same lines. I have problems, with Sunday,trinity,christmas ect ect ect ......but I am getting to be at peace with those issues.

I think because I am a novice in my studies....At first I was angry when I learned of the pagan things in the Worship of the Creator.And that lead me to non faith. Then Science after a deep study brought me back to know there is a Creator.So I must be patient and pray for wisdom and know the Father is here right now with/within me.

There were men of God before the Law of Moses.Enoch for one.And even in the midist of the Law in full effect God spoke thru Isiah and told us mercy comes before the Law. I am dependent on mercy,faith and grace.

anyways God bless you and please keep the studies and info coming :) We are all subject to Gods will.

Grosnick Marowbe
November 19th, 2014, 05:25 AM
[B]

There is, "The Lake of Fire!"

CherubRam
November 19th, 2014, 05:41 AM
Gehenna Sheol Tomb Grave Sepulcher Hades Hell

Gehenna
The word Gehenna in English is גֵיא בֶן־הִנֹּם or גיא בן-הינום in Hebrew.

Sheol
The word Sheol in English is שְׁאוֹל in Hebrew

Tomb, Grave, Sepulcher
The English word “tomb” is τάφος in Greek.
The English word “grave” is Ταφικός or τύμβος in Greek.
The English word "sepulcher" is μνήμα in Greek.

Hell
The English word "Hell" is κόλαση, διάολο, κόλασης, Κολάσεως in the different Greek forms.

Hades
The English word "Hades" is άδης, Άδη, τον Άδη, ο Άδης in the different Greek forms.

As a person can see the Greek words Hell and Grave are not the same.


Scripture4All is free software. You can read the Greek for yourself, it is even translated for you: http://www.scripture4all.org/

Here is a sample preview in the Hebrew so you can see what the program looks like: http://www.scripture4all.org/ISA2_preview/ISA2_preview_6a.html


There is life, and there is death. The damned die a second death. Upon judgment day all that had lived are called back into being. The forgiven go on to life immortal, where as the damned are cut off from life for all eternity. Lake of fire is parabolic for a body of people judged unfavorably. Lake = Body of people. Fire = Judgment.

Scripture4All is a good study source, and it is free. http://www.scripture4all.org/ISA2_preview/ISA2_preview_6a.html

CherubRam
November 19th, 2014, 05:42 AM
There is, "The Lake of Fire!"
Lake of fire is parabolic for a body of people judged unfavorably. Lake = Body of people. Fire = Judgment.

Aimiel
November 19th, 2014, 06:40 AM
Lake of fire is parabolic for a body of people judged unfavorably. Lake = Body of people. Fire = Judgment.If the Lake of Fire were symbolic, then why state that humans would be tormented for ever and ever in The Holy Scriptures? God doesn't lie. His Word is Truth. You need to buy a clue.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

JosephR
November 19th, 2014, 06:42 AM
where do bad folks go when they die?

they dont go to heaven where angels fly,,

they go to a lake of fire and fry,,

wont see'em again till the 4th of July.

Aimiel
November 20th, 2014, 06:15 AM
CherubRam,

You posted:


I spend my time and money on knowing the bible. It gives my life meaning and purpose.

To which I replied:


Then your god is in your head. If you were to seek and search for God with all of your heart, then you would find Him. He promised:

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

But, alas, you only want to know 'about' Him. Yes: even knowing every single thing which He has revealed is completely meaningless if you don't know Him. You don't. You need to turn your heart to Him, not your own knowledge. You are on the throne of your life, not God. Your idol is your own thoughts, not The One True God. He can give meaning and purpose that you haven't yet imagined. His Gifts are endless.

... to which you replied:


You guys certainly are self-righteous and judgmental. You hardly know what is in the actual scriptures, and yet you want to do the teaching. Don't you know that it is a sin to join Paganism to your Holy Father?

I don't believe that I'm anything more than the Emperor-for-life of sinners. I'm the lowest of the low. I only want you to realize the same. If you were to repent of your self-righteousness, you'd find that you wouldn't see so many self-righteous people around you. You need to seek God, not knowledge 'about' God. All that does is swell your head with self-love.

CherubRam
November 20th, 2014, 11:30 AM
CherubRam,

I don't believe that I'm anything more than the Emperor-for-life of sinners. I'm the lowest of the low. I only want you to realize the same. If you were to repent of your self-righteousness, you'd find that you wouldn't see so many self-righteous people around you. You need to seek God, not knowledge 'about' God. All that does is swell your head with self-love.

When you are done attacking me, then perhaps you can find some time to think about what I wrote.

Aimiel
November 20th, 2014, 02:17 PM
When you are done attacking me, then perhaps you can find some time to think about what I wrote.You first!


You guys certainly are self-righteous and judgmental. You hardly know what is in the actual scriptures, and yet you want to do the teaching. Don't you know that it is a sin to join Paganism to your Holy Father?

Cruciform
November 20th, 2014, 03:55 PM
There is no Hell.
Try again (http://scripturecatholic.com/hell.html).

CherubRam
November 20th, 2014, 07:11 PM
Try again (http://scripturecatholic.com/hell.html).

The word "fire" and any such related term is being used as a parable to mean "judgment."


Matthew 13
10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:


“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:


“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

15
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.



Matthew 13:34
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.


Mark 4:34
He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.

Daniel1611
November 20th, 2014, 07:22 PM
Lake of fire is parabolic for a body of people judged unfavorably. Lake = Body of people. Fire = Judgment.

Says who? You just make up this interpretation and we are to take it as established fact? The doctrine of hell is under attack for the same reasons all other Christian doctrine is under attack. Because CINO's, Christians in Name Only, are afraid because they believe not the truth.

Cruciform
November 20th, 2014, 10:38 PM
The word "fire" and any such related term is being used as a parable to mean "judgment."
Unfortunately for your assumptions, the Bible itself nowhere states that the word "fire" is a "parable." Certainly none of the texts quoted in your post says any such thing. Please cite the biblical text in which it is stated that "the word 'fire' is a 'parable'."



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

Damian
November 20th, 2014, 10:45 PM
His works were cited as evidence that Roman Catholics must believe that the pope is always right no matter what because he is the pope. But that's because people generally ignore his later work where he, albeit succinctly, addresses head on the limitations on infallibility and the pope's authority.

Are you suggesting that Cruciform does not fully appreciate the limitations on papal infallibility and authority?

Cruciform
November 20th, 2014, 10:52 PM
Are you suggesting that Cruciform does not fully appreciate the limitations on papal infallibility and authority?
I haven't seen that Spitfire has ever suggested any such thing. Example? :think:

Damian
November 20th, 2014, 11:36 PM
I haven't seen that Spitfire has ever suggested any such thing. Example? :think:

I believe Spitfire views your "brain on papal encyclicals" (the Catholic equivalent of the Protestant's "brain on sola scriptura").

See post 7 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4115313&postcount=7).

(Don't take it too badly. She doesn't have a very high opinion of me either. It's just her way. She really doesn't like anyone.)

CherubRam
November 21st, 2014, 01:09 AM
If the Lake of Fire were symbolic, then why state that humans would be tormented for ever and ever in The Holy Scriptures? God doesn't lie. His Word is Truth. You need to buy a clue.

And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.


where do bad folks go when they die?

they dont go to heaven where angels fly,,

they go to a lake of fire and fry,,

wont see'em again till the 4th of July.


Says who? You just make up this interpretation and we are to take it as established fact? The doctrine of hell is under attack for the same reasons all other Christian doctrine is under attack. Because CINO's, Christians in Name Only, are afraid because they believe not the truth.


Unfortunately for your assumptions, the Bible itself nowhere states that the word "fire" is a "parable." Certainly none of the texts quoted in your post says any such thing. Please cite the biblical text in which it is stated that "the word 'fire' is a 'parable'."



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+


Psalm 78:21
When the LORD heard them, he was furious; his fire broke out against Jacob, and his wrath rose against Israel,

Psalm 79:5
How long, LORD? Will you be angry forever? How long will your jealousy burn like fire?

Psalm 89:46
How long, LORD? Will you hide yourself forever? How long will your wrath burn like fire?

Psalm 104:4
He makes spirits his messengers, flames of fire his servants.

Isaiah 4:4
The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

Isaiah 66:15
See, the LORD is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Isaiah 66:16
For with fire and with his sword the LORD will execute judgment on all people, and many will be those slain by the LORD.

Deuteronomy 32:22.
For a fire has been kindled by my wrath,
one that burns to the realm of sheol below. (Sheol is Hebrew for grave.)

Amos 7:4
This is what the Sovereign LORD showed me: The Sovereign LORD was calling for judgment by fire; it dried up the great deep and devoured the land.

Hebrews 10:27
but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

2 Peter 3:7
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

CherubRam
November 21st, 2014, 01:11 AM
Won't you please study. Scripture4All is a good study source, and it is free. http://www.scripture4all.org/ISA2_preview/ISA2_preview_6a.html

oatmeal
November 21st, 2014, 05:31 AM
What story did Theophilus write?

Acts is addressed to those who love God, theophilus.

It is neither a name or a title, but a general description of the addressees of the book of Acts as authored by God and written down by Luke.

CherubRam
November 21st, 2014, 01:21 PM
What story did Theophilus write?

Acts is addressed to those who love God, theophilus.

It is neither a name or a title, but a general description of the addressees of the book of Acts as authored by God and written down by Luke.

Theophilus.

Luke 1:3
With this in mind, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,

..., I also decided to write an orderly account for you.
Most excellent, Theophilus.


Acts 1:1
In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach...

In my former book, I Theophilus wrote about all that Yahshua began to do and to teach...



Theophilus wrote "The Rich Man and Lazarus."

Ben Masada
November 21st, 2014, 02:01 PM
What story did Theophilus write?

Acts is addressed to those who love God, theophilus.

It is neither a name or a title, but a general description of the addressees of the book of Acts as authored by God and written down by Luke.

I disagree with you Oatmeal. If Luke was referring to an adjective upon those who love God, he would have spelled theophilus as you do above, but it is only obvious that he addressed his book to a person called Theophilus as he capitalizes the initial letter of the name.

Aimiel
November 21st, 2014, 02:22 PM
Capitals had not yet been invented.

Ben Masada
November 21st, 2014, 02:33 PM
Capitals had not yet been invented.

Okay, that point of mine was weak but if you focus on Luke 1:3, Luke dedicated his two books, the gospel and the Acts of the Apostles to a man called Theophilus which was a common name in the Greek world. That's a testimony given by the Catholic encyclopedia and in the preface to the gospel of Luke in NAB.

Aimiel
November 21st, 2014, 10:50 PM
I agree.

Ktoyou
November 21st, 2014, 10:58 PM
I
[B]No one knows the true identity of Theophilus who wrote the story, ....

We do know your post is too long and rather silly.

patrick jane
November 21st, 2014, 11:07 PM
if one person deserves to go to hell and burn or suffer for eternity, then we all do

Ktoyou
November 21st, 2014, 11:14 PM
if one person deserves to go to hell and burn or suffer for eternity, then we all do

Oh yes, everyone has to be the same, to your way of thinking:rotfl:

MichaelCadry
November 22nd, 2014, 02:01 AM
Dear All,

I know this because an angel spoke to me about it. Hell is the center of our Earth and is the bottomless pit. That is because we are all on top of the Earth because of gravity, and there is also a center, but no bottom. Thus, the bottomless pit. Where the magma and lava is extremely hot and Satan will be bound to again soon for 1,000 years. Now, the Lake of Fire is our Sun, where Lucifer already is. God said He would also send the antichrist and false prophet there, and Satan also. Most everyone else is up in the air according to how God judges them. Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. See Rev. 20:14. There's so much I could expound on, but not for now. Am feeling under the weather with my pneumonia. Sorry. I think the 666 followers of the beast/antichrist are also sent to the Lake of Fire. Don't quote me on that though, until I have a chance to look it up. It says that the Sea gave up the dead in it, and that Death and Hell gave up the souls there, and they were judged everyone according to their works. Our sins now are a lot more grievous because we've already been told time and time again to repent and change, and still we don't, and things become worse and more atrocious than ever. The Lake of Fire is hotter than Hell, and when our Sun dies out, another younger Sun will be provided for those souls to burn in. God does say forever and ever. He means it.

Praise God,

Michael

CherubRam
November 22nd, 2014, 02:11 AM
I guess giving up Pagan ways is a real problem for some people. I will say it again. Joining Paganism to Yahwah our Holy Father is a sin.

Cruciform
November 22nd, 2014, 02:30 PM
I guess giving up Pagan ways is a real problem for some people. I will say it again. Joining Paganism to Yahwah our Holy Father is a sin.
Already decisively answered here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4110446&postcount=12).

CherubRam
November 22nd, 2014, 02:55 PM
Already decisively answered here (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4110446&postcount=12).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CherubRam View Post
Should pagan beliefs be joined to Christianity?

QUOTE=Cruciform
If they're theologically redefined and changed in their essence and identity so that they're no longer pagan, but wholly and only Christian, certainly.


ST. AUGUSTINE ON INCORPORATING INTO CHRISTIANITY
THAT WHICH IS GOOD IN PAGANISM

This is another historic Catholic principle that many Protestants completely misunderstand and often reject on principle. Paul used the same approach on Mars Hill in Athens---even to the extent of directly citing two pagan poets/philosophers in his discourse (Acts 17).

Consider St. Augustine’s words on the matter:

“For we ought not to refuse to learn letters because they say that Mercury discovered them; nor because they have dedicated temples to Justice and Virtue, and prefer to worship in the form of stones things that ought to have their place in the heart, ought we on that account to forsake justice and virtue. Nay, but let every good and true Christian understand that wherever truth may be found, it belongs to his Master; and while he recognizes and acknowledges the truth, even in their religious literature, let him reject the figments of superstition…” (On Christian Doctrine, ii, 28).

“Moreover, if those who are called philosophers, and especially the Platonists, have said anything that is true and in harmony with our faith, we are not only not to shrink from it, but to claim it for our own use from those who have unlawful possession of it… These, therefore, the Christian, when he separates himself in spirit from the miserable fellowship of these men, ought to take away from them, and to devote to their proper use in preaching the gospel. Their garments, also—that is, human institutions such as are adapted to that intercourse with men which is indispensable in this life—we must take and turn to a Christian use” (On Christian Doctrine, ii, 60).

Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)

CherubRam
November 22nd, 2014, 03:01 PM
Hell is a falsehood. It is not a teaching in Judaism. Christianity is Judaism fulfilled. Christianity is a branch of Judaism.

Aimiel
November 22nd, 2014, 03:40 PM
You are one mixed-up cookie.

CherubRam
November 22nd, 2014, 04:34 PM
You are one mixed-up cookie.
You need to study your bible.



The Grafted Branch of Israel.


We are a grafted BRANCH into Israel; that means that Christians are now Israel in the new covenant. The elect have become the seed of Abraham and a Jew is one by election and not birth.

Jeremiah 31:31 "The time is coming", declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel." See also: Gen 35:10-11, Ex 20:8-10, Lev 19:34, Isa 9:3, Isa 26:15, Isa 44:5, Isa 46:13, Isa 56:3-6-8, Isa 62:2, Isa 65:15, and the examples go on.

John 1:12- "sons of God"
John 11:52- "gathering together in one the children of God."
Rom 8:14-16- "are the children of God"
2Cr 6:18- "shall be my sons and daughters"
Gal 4:5-7- "heir of God through Christ"
1John 3:2- "we should be called sons of God."
Rom 9:6-7- "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel"
Gal 4:25-30. "are the children of promise"
Gal 3:7. "which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham"
Gal 3:29. "And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."
Rom 2:29. "But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God."
2Cr 6:16. "I will be their God and they shall be my people."

Eph 2:12-19. "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; having abolished in his flesh the enmity, (enmity means hostility) [even / toward] the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of [twain / us] one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the [cross / stake], having slain the enmity (hostility) thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were far away, and to them that were near. For through him we both have access through one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;"

1Peter 2:9. "But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, and holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of Him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: Which in time past (were not) a people, but (are now) the people of God: which hand not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

John 17:22. "And the glory which you gave me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one."

CherubRam
November 22nd, 2014, 04:38 PM
Branch Vine
Isaiah 11:1
[ The Branch From Jesse ] A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.

Zechariah 3:8
“‘Listen, High Priest Joshua, you and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch.

Zechariah 6:12
Tell him this is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Here is the man whose name is the Branch, and he will branch out from his place and build the temple of the Lord.

John 15:1
[ The Vine and the Branches ] “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.

John 15:5
“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Romans 11:17
If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,

CherubRam
November 22nd, 2014, 04:40 PM
I am really astonished at all the people who want to teach, but do not know what is written in their bible.

Aimiel
November 22nd, 2014, 05:03 PM
We are grafted into The Vine, Who is Christ, not Jews. Not anyone except Him. We only have life in Him. If you don't understand that then you need to study your Bible. Israel has nothing to do with Christ. They are as lost as Muslims or Mormons. They need Christ just like we do. Without Him we are nothing.

CherubRam
November 22nd, 2014, 05:40 PM
We are grafted into The Vine, Who is Christ, not Jews. Not anyone except Him. We only have life in Him. If you don't understand that then you need to study your Bible. Israel has nothing to do with Christ. They are as lost as Muslims or Mormons. They need Christ just like we do. Without Him we are nothing. Foot -N- mouth disease. We are Israel.

The term Jew applied to all peoples of the world who worshipped the God of Abraham. The mission of the faith has always been to convert the nations to the faith.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

A Jew is a convert to Judaism, and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

Romans 2:28-29.
28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

Isaiah 62:2
The nations will see your vindication, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the Lord will bestow.

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name (Jew) for my chosen ones to use in their curses; the Sovereign Lord will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name. (Christian)

Aimiel
November 23rd, 2014, 07:16 AM
Foot -N- mouth disease. We are Israel.We are disciples of Christ. Christians. He did not walk in Jewry.

After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

You're writing fairy tales and believing fables. We are Christian. We are called by His Name. We are Jesus' people. Israel is not our identity. It is His Throne.

Timotheos
November 23rd, 2014, 07:27 AM
There is no Hell - November 13th, 2014
------------------------------------------------

Since, there is NO HELL then You can all go to NOWHERE

Or you could just die, right?

Aimiel
November 23rd, 2014, 09:27 AM
If men were appointed TWICE to die... but since death occurs only once: eternal torment must be real.

Timotheos
November 23rd, 2014, 09:10 PM
If men were appointed TWICE to die... but since death occurs only once: eternal torment must be real.

Do you not believe that there is such a thing as the second death?

Aimiel
November 23rd, 2014, 11:30 PM
I do. Those cast into the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever are said to be suffering the 'Second Death.'

Timotheos
November 24th, 2014, 05:56 AM
I do. Those cast into the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever are said to be suffering the 'Second Death.'

The Bible does not say that "Those cast into the Lake of Fire to be tormented forever are said to be suffering the 'Second Death.'"

The Bible says that the lake of fire is the second death. No wonder, who could survive being tossed into a lake of fire? When the wicked die in the lake of fire, that is their second death. They were resurrected from their first death in order to stand before God for judgment. They will receive the sentence of death, for the wages of sin is death. Since they have died once before, their final death is their second death. Don't ask "Why would God bother to resurrect them only to send them back to their death?". God resurrects them so that they are able to stand before Him for Judgment.

Timotheos
November 24th, 2014, 06:02 AM
If men were appointed TWICE to die... but since death occurs only once: eternal torment must be real.

You are forgetting that God can and will resurrect the dead. Those who will perish must die a second time. Those who have eternal life will not die a second time.

Aimiel
November 24th, 2014, 06:16 AM
The Word of God doesn't lie. He said that men are only appointed to die once. Your theology is off-base.

CherubRam
November 24th, 2014, 06:45 AM
The Word of God doesn't lie. He said that men are only appointed to die once. Your theology is off-base.

The Elect die once and live twice.

Aimiel
November 24th, 2014, 12:14 PM
The 'Second Death' isn't life...

LIFE = "the quality that distinguishes a vital and functional plant or animal from a dead body b : a state of living characterized by capacity for metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction." Merriam-Webster Dictionary

The suffering of those in the Lake of Fire cannot be defined as life, as we know it. They are alone, in the dark, suffering, without growth or reproduction and completely isolated from everyone and everything else that exists. Men are appointed ONCE to die. They are awakened from death to be judged as to where they will spend eternity, just as Scripture teaches. A second actual death would be a violation of God's Word.

Timotheos
November 24th, 2014, 01:55 PM
The Bible speaks of a second death. Look it up.

Lazy afternoon
November 24th, 2014, 02:36 PM
You guys certainly are self-righteous and judgmental. You hardly know what is in the actual scriptures, and yet you want to do the teaching. Don't you know that it is a sin to join Paganism to your Holy Father?

Been telling them that for years.

LA

Lazy afternoon
November 24th, 2014, 02:44 PM
Won't you please study. Scripture4All is a good study source, and it is free. http://www.scripture4all.org/ISA2_preview/ISA2_preview_6a.html

Yes I have had that for some years now.

It reveals that the KJV is slanted toward the religion of the time.

LA

Lazy afternoon
November 24th, 2014, 02:50 PM
Dear All,

I know this because an angel spoke to me about it. Hell is the center of our Earth and is the bottomless pit. That is because we are all on top of the Earth because of gravity, and there is also a center, but no bottom. Thus, the bottomless pit. Where the magma and lava is extremely hot and Satan will be bound to again soon for 1,000 years. Now, the Lake of Fire is our Sun, where Lucifer already is. God said He would also send the antichrist and false prophet there, and Satan also. Most everyone else is up in the air according to how God judges them. Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. See Rev. 20:14. There's so much I could expound on, but not for now. Am feeling under the weather with my pneumonia. Sorry. I think the 666 followers of the beast/antichrist are also sent to the Lake of Fire. Don't quote me on that though, until I have a chance to look it up. It says that the Sea gave up the dead in it, and that Death and Hell gave up the souls there, and they were judged everyone according to their works. Our sins now are a lot more grievous because we've already been told time and time again to repent and change, and still we don't, and things become worse and more atrocious than ever. The Lake of Fire is hotter than Hell, and when our Sun dies out, another younger Sun will be provided for those souls to burn in. God does say forever and ever. He means it.

Praise God,

Michael


Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;


LA

CherubRam
November 24th, 2014, 04:26 PM
Yes I have had that for some years now.

It reveals that the KJV is slanted toward the religion of the time.

LA
What I don't understand is, why the translators of our bibles do not do a better job of translating. They see what is there and they ignore it. Then to top all things off, we have Catholic corruptions in the canonization of scriptures. All of these secret societies have Christians divided one against the other.

Jude
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the only God is Yahwah, or that our lord Yahshua is the Messiah.

19. Not having the Spirit; these are the people who divide you for their desire.

At that time Jude was speaking of Pagan and Jewish secret societies.

CherubRam
November 24th, 2014, 04:34 PM
The Elect die once and live twice. The condemned live twice and die twice. They are twice dead.

CherubRam
November 24th, 2014, 04:37 PM
FREE


Won't you please study. Scripture4All is a good study source, and it is free. http://www.scripture4all.org/

Aimiel
November 24th, 2014, 06:59 PM
The Bible speaks of a second death. Look it up.I've also just explained to you how men can only be appointed ONCE to die and yet partake of a 'Second Death,' but I guess you want to believe that the verse that says men only die ONCE is NOT TRUE. That's okay... believe what you have grown accustomed to, rather than The Bible.

Lazy afternoon
November 24th, 2014, 07:02 PM
What I don't understand is, why the translators of our bibles do not do a better job of translating. They see what is there and they ignore it. Then to top all things off, we have Catholic corruptions in the canonization of scriptures. All of these secret societies have Christians divided one against the other.

Jude
4. Because you are unaware that certain men have sneaked in, who are of a ancient order to their condemnation, these ungodly men turn the grace of our God into immorality, and deny that the only God is Yahwah, or that our lord Yahshua is the Messiah.

19. Not having the Spirit; these are the people who divide you for their desire.

At that time Jude was speaking of Pagan and Jewish secret societies.

Only when believers behold the head that they come out of their individual belief systems.

What amazes me is that many groups who differ on many things, actually agree on the one thing and in preaching it the Lord saves people into their group, but afterward if they stray from the truth and try to push their own group doctrines onto the converts then the Lord calls them out.

(and it is by many ways that He does this, even making them to be thrown out)

Pro 11:24 There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty.


LA

Lazy afternoon
November 24th, 2014, 07:05 PM
I've also just explained to you how men can only be appointed ONCE to die and yet partake of a 'Second Death,' but I guess you want to believe that the verse that says men only die ONCE is NOT TRUE. That's okay... believe what you have grown accustomed to, rather than The Bible.

It does not say men only die once, it says--

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

LA

Aimiel
November 24th, 2014, 07:13 PM
Men are appointed ONCE to die... do you think that means that they can be appointed to die more than once or ONLY ONCE? I believe it means only once. Being tormented for eternity isn't life but on the other hand: it isn't death, either, it is torment.

Timotheos
November 24th, 2014, 08:56 PM
I've also just explained to you how men can only be appointed ONCE to die and yet partake of a 'Second Death,' but I guess you want to believe that the verse that says men only die ONCE is NOT TRUE. That's okay... believe what you have grown accustomed to, rather than The Bible.

The Bible speaks of a second death, so I believe that there is a second death for those who reject God.

Aimiel
November 24th, 2014, 10:52 PM
The fact that men are appointed only once to die coupled with the facts of eternal torment preclude your chosen theology.

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:08 AM
Been telling them that for years.

LA

Yeah, but who wants to listen to someone who knows very little
about, very little?

Lazy afternoon
November 25th, 2014, 01:08 AM
Men are appointed ONCE to die... do you think that means that they can be appointed to die more than once or ONLY ONCE? I believe it means only once. Being tormented for eternity isn't life but on the other hand: it isn't death, either, it is torment.

Read your Bible--



Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

LA

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:10 AM
Read your Bible--



Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

LA

Have you even read the entire Bible, word for word, cover to cover?

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:11 AM
LA is 'incorrigible!'

Lazy afternoon
November 25th, 2014, 01:14 AM
Have you even read the entire Bible, word for word, cover to cover?

I do not know, but I can tell you what every chapter means.

Have you?

You do not regard the gospels as referring to you because you are a gentile you say.

OK.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:18 AM
I do not know, but I can tell you what every chapter means.

Have you?

You do not regard the gospels as referring to you because you are a gentile you say.

OK.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

I have read the entire Bible word for word and cover to cover! And,
continue to do so! You admit you haven't to your knowledge? (which
is limited)

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:20 AM
LA, are you a female or Male? Someone said earlier that, they think you're
a female! Is that true?

Lazy afternoon
November 25th, 2014, 01:20 AM
LA is 'incorrigible!'

I do not have to answer to God for your insults but you do.

You will so wish that you had never spoken as you have.

LA

Lazy afternoon
November 25th, 2014, 01:22 AM
I have read the entire Bible word for word and cover to cover! And,
continue to do so! You admit you haven't to your knowledge? (which
is limited)

Then you should know better than to continually throw insults my way.

LA

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:22 AM
I do not have to answer to God for your insults but you do.

You will so wish that you had never spoken as you have.

LA

Is that another one of your, "Veiled threats?" Or, just one of your
faulty 'predictions' you keep putting on your fellow posters?

Lazy afternoon
November 25th, 2014, 01:23 AM
LA, are you a female or Male? Someone said earlier that, they think you're
a female! Is that true?

Why do you ask?

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:23 AM
Then you should know better than to continually throw insults my way.

LA

I do not believe that, you're a 'True Believer!'

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:24 AM
Why do you ask?

The masses wanna know?

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:25 AM
LA I sincerely believe you're a phony!

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:26 AM
Should I address you as; Miss, Mrs. or Mr.?

Lazy afternoon
November 25th, 2014, 01:27 AM
Is that another one of your, "Veiled threats?" Or, just one of your
faulty 'predictions' you keep putting on your fellow posters?

Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
Psa 37:31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
Psa 37:32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.

LA

Grosnick Marowbe
November 25th, 2014, 01:28 AM
In your avatar, who is the man behind bars and why is he there?

Timotheos
November 25th, 2014, 03:49 PM
The fact that men are appointed only once to die coupled with the facts of eternal torment preclude your chosen theology.

I see. So are you saying that the Bible proves that Biblical Theology is false?

Nice try. Read the context of "It is appointed for man once to die and then the judgment". Don't take verses out of context. It makes you look foolish.

Aimiel
November 25th, 2014, 04:02 PM
Nope. The Bible is understandable, if you don't try to apply your pre-conceived notions to It. The judgment puts men into the Lake of Fire for eternal torment. I don't feel foolish at all. I don't see where you have a leg to stand on.

CherubRam
November 25th, 2014, 04:12 PM
Nope. The Bible is understandable, if you don't try to apply your pre-conceived notions to It. The judgment puts men into the Lake of Fire for eternal torment. I don't feel foolish at all. I don't see where you have a leg to stand on.
The Elect, the Elect, the Elect die once while waiting for him. They are destined to die once.


Hebrews 9
27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Ben Masada
November 25th, 2014, 04:25 PM
Men are appointed ONCE to die... do you think that means that they can be appointed to die more than once or ONLY ONCE? I believe it means only once. Being tormented for eternity isn't life but on the other hand: it isn't death, either, it is torment.

How many times did Lazarus die? If you are right that one dies just once, the event of the resurrection of Lazarus by Jesus was a parable. How do you take it, as a parable or that you are wrong and man can die more than once? If you ask me, it was a parable for I do agree with you that man dies only once.

Timotheos
November 25th, 2014, 09:17 PM
Nope. The Bible is understandable, if you don't try to apply your pre-conceived notions to It. The judgment puts men into the Lake of Fire for eternal torment. I don't feel foolish at all. I don't see where you have a leg to stand on.

I know that You don't see where I have a leg to stand on. You don't see because you refuse to see.

According to the Bible, the penalty for sin is death, not eternal conscious torment in hell, and the gift of God is eternal life in Christ. I don't think that you will ever understand this, only because you refuse to accept the truth.

patrick jane
November 25th, 2014, 09:31 PM
jumping in here, yes i agree, i think, with timotheos, i interpret death as complete and total separation from God. it can't be imagined. in my opinion, nobody deserves to burn alive or suffer pain and anguish physically for eternity no matter the evil they committed in 100 years on earth. if one deserves it then i do too. we all do. which is why Jesus Christ is the great I AM. all the answers are in the New Testament, and foretold in the Old Testament. when you start to really get the essence of the Bible it's beautiful experience. i just want more

Timotheos
November 25th, 2014, 09:36 PM
jumping in here, yes i agree, i think, with timotheos, i interpret death as complete and total separation from God. it can't be imagined. in my opinion, nobody deserves to burn alive or suffer pain and anguish physically for eternity no matter the evil they committed in 100 years on earth. if one deserves it then i do too. we all do. which is why Jesus Christ is the great I AM. all the answers are in the New Testament, and foretold in the Old Testament. when you start to really get the essence of the Bible it's beautiful experience. i just want more

Thanks! But I don't interpret death as "separation from God". I interpret death as "no longer alive".

patrick jane
November 25th, 2014, 09:44 PM
yes, i do too. salvation is a gift available to all. death is also availabe. i know little, however i cringe @ the idea that i get a short time on earth to get it right. i don't remember asking to be here, but now that i'm here i have a chance to burn in hell forever ? really ? i don't want a God i understand, anyone that expects to or "does" is . . . ? hey timotheos, how can people talk privately if wanted or get a buddy ? i'm kinda dumb on here

patrick jane
November 25th, 2014, 09:55 PM
it seems harsh to me, the final judgement, because i don't know where i'll stand. it would be nice to have lived a good and righteous life and feel confident of my salvation, i know how bad i am. painfully aware. i judge myself harshly and i can't see why Jesus won't send me to hell. that's why i have to continually try to stay in The Word in spite of the world around me. i suppose we will all understand in the end and i take comfort and peace from that. i trust in God and Jesus whatever my own fate. i find contentment in knowing deep in my soul that God wins and evil will no longer exist.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 07:35 AM
How many times did Lazarus die? If you are right that one dies just once, the event of the resurrection of Lazarus by Jesus was a parable. How do you take it, as a parable or that you are wrong and man can die more than once? If you ask me, it was a parable for I do agree with you that man dies only once.I believe that Lazarus (as well as the others who were risen from the dead by Christ) did not die a second time, but rather were taken up just as Enoch was.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 07:37 AM
According to the Bible, the penalty for sin is death, not eternal conscious torment in hell, and the gift of God is eternal life in Christ. I don't think that you will ever understand this, only because you refuse to accept the truth.No, it isn't 'truth' that eternal conscious torment described in Scripture is a fallacy. I believe that what Christ said is true. You don't. He said eternal torment, you say, "No way." I believe Him, not you.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 07:43 AM
it seems harsh to me, the final judgement, because i don't know where i'll stand. it would be nice to have lived a good and righteous life and feel confident of my salvation, i know how bad i am. painfully aware. i judge myself harshly and i can't see why Jesus won't send me to hell. that's why i have to continually try to stay in The Word in spite of the world around me. i suppose we will all understand in the end and i take comfort and peace from that. i trust in God and Jesus whatever my own fate. i find contentment in knowing deep in my soul that God wins and evil will no longer exist.If you don't know where you stand, you don't know God. Jesus has said that faith in Him will cause you to not have to die. You won't face judgment because of His Blood. All of us deserve hell. We don't try to live righteously, because to do so would trample Jesus' Blood under our feet. We reject Him by trying to do works to be accepted by Him. That's what religion teaches. Christianity teaches salvation by grace (un-merited favor) through faith in Christ. We accept His Righteousness and walk according to the faith that He gives us. We trust that we have eternal life. This is the reason that we can praise and worship Him. We have life. Abundant life. Eternal life. Those who reject Him have eternal torment.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 08:17 AM
No, it isn't 'truth' that eternal conscious torment described in Scripture is a fallacy. I believe that what Christ said is true. You don't. He said eternal torment, you say, "No way." I believe Him, not you.

Christ said that sinners go to eternal torment in hell when they die???
Excuse me, but could you please give me the Chapter and Verse for that?

(If you want, I can give YOU the Chapter and Verse where Jesus Christ said that those who do not repent will perish)

I'm sorry but I believe that what Christ said is true, and You are saying something else entirely.

But here is your BIG chance. SHOW ME where Jesus Christ said "The lost go to eternal torment in hell when they die". You Claimed it, You must PROVE it.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 08:18 AM
I believe that Lazarus (as well as the others who were risen from the dead by Christ) did not die a second time, but rather were taken up just as Enoch was.

That's because you are a moron.

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 09:32 AM
If you don't know where you stand, you don't know God. Jesus has said that faith in Him will cause you to not have to die. You won't face judgment because of His Blood. All of us deserve hell. We don't try to live righteously, because to do so would trample Jesus' Blood under our feet. We reject Him by trying to do works to be accepted by Him. That's what religion teaches. Christianity teaches salvation by grace (un-merited favor) through faith in Christ. We accept His Righteousness and walk according to the faith that He gives us. We trust that we have eternal life. This is the reason that we can praise and worship Him. We have life. Abundant life. Eternal life. Those who reject Him have eternal torment.

When are you going to study your bible? The word "Hell" is not even in the original scriptures.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 09:48 AM
Christ said that sinners go to eternal torment in hell when they die?Yes.

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 11:36 AM
Yes.

Show us the scripture where he says that?

serpentdove
November 26th, 2014, 12:02 PM
Why would Death and Hell need to be cast into the Lake of Fire? Simply because they are enemies of God and living spirits (rulers of the darkness of this world) and need to be punished. The last enemy that shall be defeated is Death. We will bring him to his knees with our faith in God's ability to raise the dead. We will cause Death to no longer be able to do his job.

And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

When we have brought Death to his knees with our faith, our job of subduing Christ's enemies will be complete and He will return for a glorious and victorious church.Hell is real. Jesus spoke about hell more than any other person in the Bible. :Poly:

If God is not just, than God is not good. When they are weeping and gnashing their teeth, I will be doing the Snoopy dance (Deut 28:63, Ps 139:22). http://www.citybuildingcontests.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/happydance.gif

Hell is described as: everlasting fire (Matt. 25:41), everlasting punishment (Matt. 25:46), outer darkness (Matt. 8:12), everlasting destruction (2 Thess. 1:9), lake of fire (Rev. 19:20). :burnlib: Thomas Nelson Publishers. (1996). Nelson’s quick reference topical Bible index (p. 283). Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson Publishers.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 02:11 PM
Show us the scripture where he says that?The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 02:15 PM
Yes.

No, He didn't say that sinners go to hell when they die where they undergo eternal conscious torment.

You failed to give the Chapter and Verse, in other words you Lied when you claimed "Christ said Eternal Torment".

Totton Linnet
November 26th, 2014, 02:17 PM
He said eternal punishment....you lie every time you say it is not eternal.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 02:18 PM
No, He didn't say that sinners go to hell when they die where they undergo eternal conscious torment.

You failed to give the Chapter and Verse, in other words you Lied when you claimed "Christ said Eternal Torment".No, you lie when you twist His Words to match your pet theology.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 02:21 PM
He said eternal punishment....you lie every time you say it is not eternal.

Just as I asked Aimiel, I will ask you.

Can you show me the Chapter and Verse where Jesus said "eternal torment"? If you can't, you have to admit that Jesus never said it.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 02:22 PM
He said many thing which need to be considered together to gain understanding. If yours is darkened, don't blame The Bible.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 02:24 PM
No, you lie when you twist His Words to match your pet theology.

I never twisted His Words, but you did when you claimed that He said "Eternal Torment" when He never did.

I am sick of you and Totten claiming that I lied when I didn't. It's shameful. You both should be ashamed of yourselves.

You claim that Jesus said "Eternal Torment", if He did, then it should be simple to say where He said it. I think you both are liars.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 02:26 PM
He said many thing which need to be considered together to gain understanding. If yours is darkened, don't blame The Bible.

So simply give the chapter and verse where Jesus said eternal torment. You claimed He said it. You claimed I was I liar because I said that He didn't say it. Totten said I was a liar for saying that Jesus never said "eternal torment". If you two want to call me a liar, show where Jesus said it. It should be simple if Jesus really said it.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 02:33 PM
Aimiel and Totten,

You both should admit that I never lied, that you falsely accused me of lying, and you should admit that the Bible never says that Jesus ever said "eternal torment".

Are you able to do this?

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 02:42 PM
I just did a combined word search of the entire Bible on BibleGateway.com for the two words combined "eternal" + "torment".

No results found. The words "eternal torment" never occur together in the Bible. It is impossible for the Bible to have said that Jesus said "eternal torment".

Aimiel lied when he said that Jesus said "eternal torment".

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 02:45 PM
Your mis-representing The Word of God is tantamount to lying. You need to admit to that.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 02:47 PM
Your mis-representing The Word of God is tantamount to lying. You need to admit to that.

No, you are the one who claimed Jesus said something He never said.

But I know that you are a liar and you will never admit that you are a liar.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 02:54 PM
You claim Scripture after Scripture doesn't support eternal conscious torment, when in point-of-fact they do. Liar.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 03:25 PM
You claim Scripture after Scripture doesn't support eternal conscious torment, when in point-of-fact they do. Liar.

Give it up, I caught you in an deliberate lie. Liar.

We're finished.

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 03:26 PM
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
There is weeping and gnashing of teeth in the final judgment. Christ is speaking a parable, and the word "fire" means judgment. That is what happens just before their lives are taken from them.

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 03:29 PM
You claim Scripture after Scripture doesn't support eternal conscious torment, when in point-of-fact they do. Liar.

If you would do an in depth study of the words being used you would see that you are in error. Won't you please study your bible scriptures?

Bright Raven
November 26th, 2014, 03:44 PM
Why is hell mentioned 54 times in the scriptures if there is no such thing?

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 03:54 PM
Why is hell mentioned 54 times in the scriptures if there is no such thing?

Not all bibles use the word Hell. In some bibles the words "grave," "pit," and "Gehenna" have been given the interpretation "Hell," that is to support the Pagan belief in Hell. Originally the Catholics used the Pagan belief in Hell to sell indulgences. It was a money maker. There are many who are Pagans who profess to be Christians.

Bright Raven
November 26th, 2014, 04:00 PM
Not all bibles use the word Hell. In some bibles the words "grave," "pit," and "Gehenna" have been given the interpretation "Hell," that is to support the Pagan belief in Hell. Originally the Catholics used the Pagan belief in Hell to sell indulgences. It was a money maker. There are many who are Pagans who profess to be Christians.

Let's say KJV. 54 times. Like I said, how come if there is no such thing.

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 04:26 PM
Let's say KJV. 54 times. Like I said, how come if there is no such thing.

King James was the head of the Masons who have Pagan beliefs. Originally the King James Bible was written for the Masonic Order, and it was called the Masonic Bible. The Masonic Bible and the King James Version are one and the same bible.

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 04:40 PM
Mark of the Beast
Revelation 13:4
People (worshiped / paid tribute to) the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also (worshiped / paid tribute to) the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?”

Revelation 13:8
All inhabitants of the earth will (worship / pay tribute to) the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

Revelation 14:9
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone (worships / pays tribute to) the beast and its image and receives its mark (on / in) their forehead or on their hand,

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their (torment / punishment) will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who (worship / pay tribute to) the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about (Jesus / Yahshua) and because of the word of God. They had not (worshiped / paid tribute to ) the beast or its image and had not received its mark (on / in) their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The mark of the Beast is by what we think and do, and those who support the Dragon and that Beast.

Bright Raven
November 26th, 2014, 04:40 PM
King James was the head of the Masons who have Pagan beliefs. Originally the King James Bible was written for the Masonic Order, and it was called the Masonic Bible. The Masonic Bible and the King James Version are one and the same bible.

So you are saying that the Bible millions use is demonic? Interesting. Would you like to get back on topic or open another thread. Would you just explain the 9 verses that appear in Matthew alone mentioning Hell. That would be enough to prove that Hell doesn't exist.

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 04:42 PM
Masonic Bible: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Masonic+bible

Bright Raven
November 26th, 2014, 04:43 PM
Masonic Bible: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Masonic+bible

Why are you derailing your own thread?

Totton Linnet
November 26th, 2014, 04:53 PM
Just as I asked Aimiel, I will ask you.

Can you show me the Chapter and Verse where Jesus said "eternal torment"? If you can't, you have to admit that Jesus never said it.

He said eternal punishment

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 04:58 PM
So you are saying that the Bible millions use is demonic? Interesting. Would you like to get back on topic or open another thread. Would you just explain the 9 verses that appear in Matthew alone mentioning Hell. That would be enough to prove that Hell doesn't exist.I counted eight places in Matthew where the word Hell is used.
In regards to Matthew in the KJV.
The word Hell is used eight times in the KJV. In six places the word Gehenna is given the interpretation Hell. In two places the name Hades is interpreted as Hell. Hades is the Pagan god of the underworld.

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 05:02 PM
He said eternal punishment

The word "torment" is not supported by scriptures.

Bright Raven
November 26th, 2014, 05:04 PM
Let me help you out here.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=hell&qs_version=KJV

Totton Linnet
November 26th, 2014, 05:09 PM
The word "torment" is not supported by scriptures.

He said eternal punishment

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 05:17 PM
Give it up, I caught you in an deliberate lie. Liar.

We're finished.Whatever, liar.

Have you a vermin on your person?

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 05:19 PM
There is weeping and gnashing of teeth in the final judgment. Christ is speaking a parable, and the word "fire" means judgment. That is what happens just before their lives are taken from them.No, fire means fire, just as torment means torment and for ever means forever.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 05:19 PM
If you would do an in depth study of the words being used you would see that you are in error. Won't you please study your bible scriptures?I have and I see you're in error. I do study Them.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 05:20 PM
Not all bibles use the word Hell. In some bibles the words "grave," "pit," and "Gehenna" have been given the interpretation "Hell," that is to support the Pagan belief in Hell. Originally the Catholics used the Pagan belief in Hell to sell indulgences. It was a money maker. There are many who are Pagans who profess to be Christians.Jesus didn't describe a dead rich man. He described a rich man in torment of flames. You need to re-think your stance. :duh:

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 05:23 PM
King James was the head of the Masons who have Pagan beliefs. Originally the King James Bible was written for the Masonic Order, and it was called the Masonic Bible. The Masonic Bible and the King James Version are one and the same bible.King James Bible being dis-credited? Tsk tsk tsk... :duh:

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 05:25 PM
Those who choose to digress from orthodoxy always have to re-define words and bring Bible translations into question to do so.

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 05:41 PM
Let me help you out here.

https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=hell&qs_version=KJV
The Hebrew word "sheol" means grave, it does not translate as "Hell."

CherubRam
November 26th, 2014, 05:42 PM
Those who choose to digress from orthodoxy always have to re-define words and bring Bible translations into question to do so.

Are you a woman?

Bright Raven
November 26th, 2014, 05:43 PM
The Hebrew word "sheol" means grave, it does not translate as "Hell."

Whatever. :idunno:

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 07:23 PM
He said eternal punishment

I agree with that, but He didn't say eternal torment.

Timotheos
November 26th, 2014, 07:24 PM
Whatever, liar.

Have you a vermin on your person?

Have a happy Thanksgiving.

Why haven't you shown the chapter and verse where Jesus said eternal torment like you claimed he said?
You just can't admit that you were caught in a deliberate lie.

Aimiel
November 26th, 2014, 08:30 PM
I shall if ever I am.

CherubRam
November 27th, 2014, 02:12 AM
If it is true that there will be people ALIVE in Hell, Then God lied, and the Serpent told the truth. The word "Hell" was added to scripture replacing the words grave, pit, and Gehenna. God is not a liar.

Genesis 2:17
...but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."


Genesis 3:3
...but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "


Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.


Now who is telling the truth, God or the Serpent? According to scripture the Serpent is telling the truth. By adding the word Hell to scriptures it looks as if the Serpent is telling the truth. Hell is a place for God to torture LIVING BEINGS for all eternity.


The Hebrew word Sheol literally means grave, not Hell. Is there LIFE in Hell? God says that man will surely die, and the Serpent says that man will not surely die.

The Pagans teach that there is life in Hell. God says there is death. And Yahshua also said that God can destroy both body and spirit.

Promoting Hell as a biblical truth makes God look like a liar.

Timotheos
November 27th, 2014, 06:15 AM
I shall if ever I am.

Well, you said that Christ said "eternal torment" when He never did. Do you have any comments on that, or retractions to make?

Aimiel
December 1st, 2014, 06:35 PM
He said, "Punishment," which cannot be death, since men only die once, as Scripture explicitly states. The punishment He spoke of is torment in flames, just as He said.

Timotheos
December 1st, 2014, 06:40 PM
He said, "Punishment," which cannot be death, since men only die once, as Scripture explicitly states. The punishment He spoke of is torment in flames, just as He said.

Yes, He said Punishment, not eternal torment. You are in error.

He said "Unless you repent, you will likewise perish". He did not say "Unless you repent, you will be tormented in flames".

Aimiel
December 1st, 2014, 07:22 PM
You're ignoring the Truths of Scripture, regarding eternal conscious torment, as you always do. :duh:

Timotheos
December 2nd, 2014, 03:40 PM
You're ignoring the Truths of Scripture, regarding eternal conscious torment, as you always do. :duh:

No, I am not ignoring the truths of scripture. You are. Scripture says that the wages of sin is DEATH. How can you believe that the wages of sin is eternal life in hell being consciously tormented without ignoring the scripture that says "the wages of sin is death"?

CherubRam
December 2nd, 2014, 04:54 PM
You're ignoring the Truths of Scripture, regarding eternal conscious torment, as you always do. :duh:

What part of "dead" do you not understand? Dead does not mean eternal life in Hell. The belief in a Hell promotes the Serpent doctrine and contradicts God. God said you will surly die, and the Serpent said, you will not surly die. Whose side are you on?

Aimiel
December 2nd, 2014, 05:27 PM
No, I am not ignoring the truths of scripture. You are. Scripture says that the wages of sin is DEATH. How can you believe that the wages of sin is eternal life in hell being consciously tormented without ignoring the scripture that says "the wages of sin is death"?Because the fact remains that AFTER death comes judgment. The judgment is, quite obviously, from what Scriptures say: eternal conscious torment in the Lake of Fire. Apparently you've cut several passages out of your Bible. I haven't.

Aimiel
December 2nd, 2014, 05:28 PM
What part of "dead" do you not understand? Dead does not mean eternal life in Hell. The belief in a Hell promotes the Serpent doctrine and contradicts God. God said you will surly die, and the Serpent said, you will not surly die. Whose side are you on?The Bible side.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Totton Linnet
December 2nd, 2014, 05:33 PM
They will be resurrected from death to face judgement "and these will depart into eternal punishment"

God doesn't say to them "die" He says to them "depart into eternal punishment prepared for the devil and his angels"

Timotheos
December 2nd, 2014, 05:50 PM
They will be resurrected from death to face judgement "and these will depart into eternal punishment"

God doesn't say to them "die" He says to them "depart into eternal punishment prepared for the devil and his angels"

And He says that the OTHERS go off to eternal life. Not BOTH groups. And by the way, God did say "die". Luke 13:3, "Unless you repent, you will likewise perish".

CherubRam
December 2nd, 2014, 06:09 PM
The Bible side.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
The Hebrew word "sheol" means grave, it does not translate as "Hell." The word Hell was added to the scriptures by the Catholics. Hell is a Pagan belief. Hell is not an original teaching of the bible.

Aimiel
December 2nd, 2014, 06:12 PM
The Hebrew word "sheol" means grave, it does not translate as "Hell." The word Hell was added to the scriptures by the Catholics. Hell is a Pagan belief. Hell is not an original teaching of the bible.Whatever. You're mistaken.

Totton Linnet
December 2nd, 2014, 06:35 PM
And He says that the OTHERS go off to eternal life. Not BOTH groups. And by the way, God did say "die". Luke 13:3, "Unless you repent, you will likewise perish".

If the life is eternal then so must the punishment be also eternal. The church of God has always believed death as the separation of the soul from God....even the Jews believed that.

Even if it were not taught me I know my inner self will always exist. Your interpretation of death is flawed and only applies to to physical death...but man has soul.

CherubRam
December 2nd, 2014, 07:47 PM
Whatever. You're mistaken.

You must be a woman. Try to put your feeling aside for awhile and think logically.

Daniel1611
December 2nd, 2014, 07:51 PM
The Bible says, they were thrown into the lake of fire where they will be tortured day and night forever and ever. If you don't believe in hell, then your problem is with the Bible.

CherubRam
December 2nd, 2014, 08:04 PM
The Bible says, they were thrown into the lake of fire where they will be tortured day and night forever and ever. If you don't believe in hell, then your problem is with the Bible.

Does the word "parable" elude you? Fire means judgment. The Lake is a body of people. And the word "torture" is a contradiction to other scriptures. Their punishment is forever. Life is the opposite of dead.

Daniel1611
December 2nd, 2014, 08:27 PM
Does the word "parable" elude you? Fire means judgment. The Lake is a body of people. And the word "torture" is a contradiction to other scriptures. Their punishment is forever. Life is the opposite of dead.

There is no indication in scripture that the lake of fire is not a literal place and every indication that it is.

meshak
December 2nd, 2014, 08:32 PM
There is no indication in scripture that the lake of fire is not a literal place and every indication that it is.

Godless is not hell enough for you?

Daniel1611
December 2nd, 2014, 08:35 PM
Godless is not hell enough for you?

It doesn't matter what is enough for me. It matters what the Bible says.

meshak
December 2nd, 2014, 08:36 PM
It doesn't matter what is enough for me. It matters what the Bible says.

You ought to read the Bible contextually.

Timotheos
December 2nd, 2014, 09:15 PM
If the life is eternal then so must the punishment be also eternal. The church of God has always believed death as the separation of the soul from God....even the Jews believed that.

Even if it were not taught me I know my inner self will always exist. Your interpretation of death is flawed and only applies to to physical death...but man has soul.

No, Read Matthew 25:46 again. Only the "sheep" go off to eternal life.

Aimiel
December 2nd, 2014, 10:07 PM
You must be a woman. Try to put your feeling aside for awhile and think logically.

You must be a pedophile. Try to put your lust aside and get your head out of the gutter.

CherubRam
December 2nd, 2014, 11:29 PM
You must be a pedophile. Try to put your lust aside and get your head out of the gutter.

So much for logic. I should have know I would be asking for to much.

CherubRam
December 2nd, 2014, 11:32 PM
There is no indication in scripture that the lake of fire is not a literal place and every indication that it is.

No indication there are parables in Revelation!:(

meshak
December 3rd, 2014, 02:26 AM
No, Read Matthew 25:46 again. Only the "sheep" go off to eternal life.

Yes:)

patrick jane
December 3rd, 2014, 03:02 AM
The Bible says, they were thrown into the lake of fire where they will be tortured day and night forever and ever. If you don't believe in hell, then your problem is with the Bible.

that sounds fair for 50 years or so of sin on earth. if someone deserves that then so be it. we all do. could it be a metaphor because we can't desribe the pain and level of suffering that just being seperated from God would feel like ? i suspect fire is not a strong enough word. taking The Bible literal is what we are to do. Thank God for Jesus Christ:jump:

CherubRam
December 3rd, 2014, 04:36 AM
that sounds fair for 50 years or so of sin on earth. if someone deserves that then so be it. we all do. could it be a metaphor because we can't desribe the pain and level of suffering that just being seperated from God would feel like ? i suspect fire is not a strong enough word. taking The Bible literal is what we are to do. Thank God for Jesus Christ:jump:
The bible often is written in a parable without giving any indication that it is parabolic.

Numbers 12:8
With him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles; he sees the form of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?”

Psalm 49:4
I will turn my ear to a proverb; with the harp I will expound my riddle:

Proverbs 1:6
for understanding proverbs and parables, the sayings and riddles of the wise.

Daniel 5:12
He did this because Daniel, whom the king called Belteshazzar, was found to have a keen mind and knowledge and understanding, and also the ability to interpret dreams, explain riddles and solve difficult problems. Call for Daniel, and he will tell you what the writing means.”

Ezekiel 20:49
Then I said, “Sovereign LORD, they are saying of me, ‘Isn’t he just telling parables?’”

Hosea 12:10
I spoke to the prophets, gave them many visions and told parables through them.”

Matthew 13:3
Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed.

Matthew 13:10
The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

Matthew 13:13
This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

Matthew 13:34
Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable.

Matthew 13:35
So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”

Psalm 78
2 I will open my mouth with a parable; I will utter hidden things, things from of old...

Timotheos
December 3rd, 2014, 06:23 AM
Yes:)

Thank you. And since only the sheep go off to eternal life, it means the goats do not go off to eternal life. Do you still agree?

Now, since the goats do not have eternal life, the punishment in Matthew 25:46 can't be eternal life in hell being tormented alive. Agreed?

So since we agree that the punishment is not eternal conscious torment, what do you think the eternal punishment is? I suggest that it is death, since the Bible says that the wages of sin is death in Romans 6:23.

rstrats
December 3rd, 2014, 06:56 AM
Daniel1611,

re: "The Bible says, they were thrown into the lake of fire where they will be tortured day and night forever and ever."


The KJV only says that the devil will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Aimiel
December 3rd, 2014, 07:19 AM
The 'beast' is a human. All who worship him are too.

Totton Linnet
December 3rd, 2014, 07:50 AM
No, Read Matthew 25:46 again. Only the "sheep" go off to eternal life.

It says those on the left departed into eternal punishment.

Christ did not say "die ye cursed" He said "depart from Me ye cursed"

You are deliberately lying.

rstrats
December 3rd, 2014, 09:14 AM
Totton Linnet,

re: "You are deliberately lying."

What other kind of lying is there? Or are you just being repetitiously redundant on purpose?

Aimiel
December 3rd, 2014, 02:29 PM
... repetitiously redundant ...
:rotfl:

Timotheos
December 3rd, 2014, 06:05 PM
It says those on the left departed into eternal punishment.

Christ did not say "die ye cursed" He said "depart from Me ye cursed"

You are deliberately lying.

I am not lying, deliberately or accidentally.
I reported what the Bible says, Do you deny that only the Sheep get to have eternal life and the Goats do not get to have eternal life? Do you agree that a person must BE eternal in order to be eternally tormented? Do you agree that the Goats are not eternal?

Timotheos
December 3rd, 2014, 06:07 PM
You are deliberately lying.

You are deliberately ignorant.

Totton Linnet
December 3rd, 2014, 06:09 PM
I am not lying, deliberately or accidentally.
I reported what the Bible says, Do you deny that only the Sheep get to have eternal life and the Goats do not get to have eternal life? Do you agree that a person must BE eternal in order to be eternally tormented? Do you agree that the Goats are not eternal?

It's a deliberate lie, "these shall depart into eternal punishment"

CatholicCrusader
December 3rd, 2014, 06:15 PM
This is your brain on sola scriptura.

All of CherubRam's posts are great examples of that, actually.

LOL. For sure. The OP is a huge giant post full of gobbldeygook.

rstrats
December 3rd, 2014, 06:40 PM
Totton Linnet,

You have a couple of questions directed to you in post #244.