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CherubRam
October 18th, 2014, 01:16 AM
Who is a Jew or the nation Israel.
This is what God has spoken through His prophets.


Genesis 17:3
Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4. "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.


Genesis 35:11
And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body.


Exodus 12:37
The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. 38. Many other people went up with them, as well as large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds.


Leviticus 19:34
The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.


Leviticus 24:22
You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.


Numbers 15:15
The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD :


Joshua 8:33
All Israel, aliens and citizens alike, with their elders, officials and judges, were standing on both sides of the ark of the covenant of the LORD, facing those who carried it—the priests, who were Levites. Half of the people stood in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the LORD had formerly commanded when he gave instructions to bless the people of Israel.


Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

Psalm 2:4
The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. 5. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, 6. "I have installed my King
on Zion, my holy hill." 7. I will proclaim the decree of the LORD : He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father. 8. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.


Psalm 82:8
Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.


Psalm 111:6
He has shown his people the power of his works, giving them the lands of other nations.


Isaiah 9:3
You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as men rejoice when dividing the plunder.


Isaiah 14:1
The LORD will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.


Isaiah 26:15
You have enlarged the nation, O LORD; you have enlarged the nation. You have gained glory for yourself; you have extended all the borders of the land.


Isaiah 44:5
One will say, 'I belong to the LORD '; another will call himself by the name of Jacob; still another will write on his hand, ['The LORD's / Yahwah],' and will take the name Israel.


Isaiah 56:3
Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people."- 6. And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant-
7. these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."
8. The Sovereign LORD declares— he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered."


Ezekiel 47
21. "You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22. You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23. In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance," declares the Sovereign LORD.


Zechariah 2:10
"Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the LORD. 11. "Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you. 12. The LORD will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13. Be still before the LORD, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."


Matthew 12:21
In his name the nations will put their hope."


The Parable of the Tenants
Luke 20
9. He went on to tell the people this parable: "A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. 10. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11. He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. 12. He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.
13. "Then the owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.' 14. "But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. 'This is the heir,' they said. 'Let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' 15. So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. "What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16. He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they said, "May this never be!" 17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written:

" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone? 18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, and he on whom it falls will be crushed."

19. The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.


Acts 3:25
And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, 'Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.'


Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Romans 3:29
Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,


Romans 4:13
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15. because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17. As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.


Romans 4:18
Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be."


Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.


Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.


Romans 9:24
even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?


Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,...


Romans 10:19
Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, "I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;...


1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.


Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


Ephesians 2:19
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,...


Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.


Titus 3:7
so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.


Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.


Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.


Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called [Christians / Messianics] first at Antioch.


A Jew is a convert to Orthodox Judaism and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

MichaelCadry
October 18th, 2014, 01:52 AM
There is no way I'm reading all that stuff. Jews are called that being from the tribes of Judah or Benjamin. The other ten tribes of Israel were scattered among the nations, to 'seed' the other nations. Now they have Israeli blood in them and they don't really even know it. What was done behind a stall in a barn determines whether the child is Irish or Israeli. That's just putting it basically. The same from Scottish, English, Soviet, Turkey, U.S., etc. We are ALL brethren (brothers and sisters) as descendants from Adam and Eve, and Noah and his wife and children. We VERY MOST likely have Israeli blood coursing through our veins, among other blood, but none of you consider it. That doesn't necessarily mean you're Jewish, but it could definitely mean it is possible. That is the way my life has gone. I'm a mutt from the beginning, but God knew me before I came out of the womb and what my purpose was. And that is to declare Jesus' Coming, His Second One, and to prepare you for it. Cease from your thefts, lies, murders, and fornication (having sex with someone other than your wife). That means no bar-hopping and having two different girls each weekend. Yep, I'm on to your game. You are spreading your seed all over and leaving women with your children who you don't support or take care of. Wow, are you going to be sorry when you face God. Each person's case is different, for some have been together for many years and love each other very much, and they have stepchildren. It all works out in the wash, and I am not the washer. He is. Do not think He is a meany and wants to judge you harshly for having a girlfriend. He is just against those who will keep having sex woman after woman, and children after children. It's all the children who suffer the very deepest. It is just beyond feelings and words to God. Not Cool At ALL!! What do those kids answer when they are asked, "Who is your Dad?" "What's Your Dad's Name?". It really sucks BIGTIME. Not Cool!!

Enough, I could definitely get more vehement on you, but you know who you are, and you think you can't change, so you will go wherever God will send you, just because you want 2 mins. of pleasure. Enough, I am done. Stick a toothpick in me.

See Rev. 9:21.

Your friendly witness/prophet,

MichaelCadry

CherubRam
October 18th, 2014, 03:44 AM
There is no way I'm reading all that stuff. Jews are called that being from the tribes of Judah or Benjamin. The other ten tribes of Israel were scattered among the nations, to 'seed' the other nations. Now they have Israeli blood in them and they don't really even know it. What was done behind a stall in a barn determines whether the child is Irish or Israeli. That's just putting it basically. The same from Scottish, English, Soviet, Turkey, U.S., etc. We are ALL brethren (brothers and sisters) as descendants from Adam and Eve, and Noah and his wife and children. We VERY MOST likely have Israeli blood coursing through our veins, among other blood, but none of you consider it. That doesn't necessarily mean you're Jewish, but it could definitely mean it is possible. That is the way my life has gone. I'm a mutt from the beginning, but God knew me before I came out of the womb and what my purpose was. And that is to declare Jesus' Coming, His Second One, and to prepare you for it. Cease from your thefts, lies, murders, and fornication (having sex with someone other than your wife). That means no bar-hopping and having two different girls each weekend. Yep, I'm on to your game. You are spreading your seed all over and leaving women with your children who you don't support or take care of. Wow, are you going to be sorry when you face God. Each person's case is different, for some have been together for many years and love each other very much, and they have stepchildren. It all works out in the wash, and I am not the washer. He is. Do not think He is a meany and wants to judge you harshly for having a girlfriend. He is just against those who will keep having sex woman after woman, and children after children. It's all the children who suffer the very deepest. It is just beyond feelings and words to God. Not Cool At ALL!! What do those kids answer when they are asked, "Who is your Dad?" "What's Your Dad's Name?". It really sucks BIGTIME. Not Cool!!

Enough, I could definitely get more vehement on you, but you know who you are, and you think you can't change, so you will go wherever God will send you, just because you want 2 mins. of pleasure. Enough, I am done. Stick a toothpick in me.

See Rev. 9:21.

Your friendly witness/prophet,

MichaelCadry

Commenting on a subject you have not read is a sign

Truster
October 18th, 2014, 04:26 AM
Son of Squeaky rides again.

CherubRam
October 18th, 2014, 04:37 PM
Son of Squeaky rides again.

So who or what is "Son of Squeaky?"

Truster
October 18th, 2014, 05:12 PM
You are...you must be.

kayaker
October 18th, 2014, 07:07 PM
So who or what is "Son of Squeaky?"

A hearty welcome to TOL, CherubRam!

When you run across Squeaky's posts, you'll see the similarity of consecutive, and rather numerous, Scriptural quotes, respectfully. Quite possibly you can unveil the mystery behind Revelation 2:9, 3:9? Those verses make it readily apparent there are impostors who call themselves, 'Jews.' I proffer those impostors were the circumcised bastard Shelanite 'Jews', descendants of Judah and his Canaanite wife's son Shelah (Genesis 38:1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10). They were the instigators of the crucifixion! Those are the squatters who occupy the contemporary nation/state of Israel: circumcised, bastard Shelanite 'Jews' who will not proclaim Tamar, Judah's daughter-in-law through whom David and Jesus arrived, as their maternal ancestress... in case you think those 'Jews' are ancestrally authentic...

kayaker

CherubRam
October 18th, 2014, 07:28 PM
A hearty welcome to TOL, CherubRam!

When you run across Squeaky's posts, you'll see the similarity of consecutive, and rather numerous, Scriptural quotes, respectfully. Quite possibly you can unveil the mystery behind Revelation 2:9, 3:9? Those verses make it readily apparent there are impostors who call themselves, 'Jews.' I proffer those impostors were the circumcised bastard Shelanite 'Jews', descendants of Judah and his Canaanite wife's son Shelah (Genesis 38:1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10). They were the instigators of the crucifixion! Those are the squatters who occupy the contemporary nation/state of Israel: circumcised, bastard Shelanite 'Jews' who will not proclaim Tamar, Judah's daughter-in-law through whom David and Jesus arrived, as their maternal ancestress... in case you think those 'Jews' are ancestrally authentic...

kayaker

I presume you mean that Squeaky was a person who posted here at TOL.

kayaker
October 18th, 2014, 08:29 PM
I presume you mean that Squeaky was a person who posted here at TOL.

Indeed.

CherubRam
October 18th, 2014, 08:48 PM
A hearty welcome to TOL, CherubRam!

When you run across Squeaky's posts, you'll see the similarity of consecutive, and rather numerous, Scriptural quotes, respectfully. Quite possibly you can unveil the mystery behind Revelation 2:9, 3:9? Those verses make it readily apparent there are impostors who call themselves, 'Jews.' I proffer those impostors were the circumcised bastard Shelanite 'Jews', descendants of Judah and his Canaanite wife's son Shelah (Genesis 38:1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10). They were the instigators of the crucifixion! Those are the squatters who occupy the contemporary nation/state of Israel: circumcised, bastard Shelanite 'Jews' who will not proclaim Tamar, Judah's daughter-in-law through whom David and Jesus arrived, as their maternal ancestress... in case you think those 'Jews' are ancestrally authentic...

kayaker

And thanks for the welcome.

Nick M
October 19th, 2014, 12:20 AM
Do you want Tet's answer?

CherubRam
October 19th, 2014, 12:41 AM
Do you want Tet's answer?

Titus 1:10-11 is speaking about the Hellenistic Jews in that day.

Nick M
October 19th, 2014, 01:30 AM
Titus 1:10-11 is speaking about the Hellenistic Jews in that day.

What? I asked about a member here if you didn't know.

CherubRam
October 19th, 2014, 01:34 AM
What? I asked about a member here if you didn't know.

Hippy Riddles.

JosephR
October 19th, 2014, 02:57 AM
I would say those who keep the Law/Torah are Jew, and they allow converts.

I am gentile and my laws are rooted in Gen 9.

beloved57
October 19th, 2014, 03:19 AM
A Jew that God Loves and Cares about are Spiritual, with Christ as their Head and Root, which would be His Body the Church Eph 5:25 !

CherubRam
October 19th, 2014, 04:05 AM
I would say those who keep the Law/Torah are Jew, and they allow converts.

I am gentile and my laws are rooted in Gen 9.

Romans 13:9
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Romans 3:31
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

CherubRam
November 5th, 2014, 01:39 PM
With some of the replies I'm getting I wonder if people are reading what I wrote.:mmph:

Ben Masada
November 5th, 2014, 01:50 PM
The Jew is the specimen of what was left after the divine rejection of Israel the Ten Tribes. (Psalm 78:67-69) The new Israel is composed of Judah as the main stem, a few thousands from the Ten Tribes that succeeded to escape the Assyrians and joined Judah in the South, plus the former Gentiles who have converted to Judaism according to Jewish law. (Isa. 56:1-8)

SaulToPaul
November 5th, 2014, 01:53 PM
Do you want Tet's answer?

I do

:mmph:

CherubRam
January 3rd, 2015, 08:16 PM
Who is a Jew or the nation Israel.
This is what God has spoken through His prophets.


Genesis 17:3
Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4. "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.


Genesis 35:11
And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body.


Exodus 12:37
The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. 38. Many other people went up with them, as well as large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds.


Leviticus 19:34
The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.


Leviticus 24:22
You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.


Numbers 15:15
The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD :


Joshua 8:33
All Israel, aliens and citizens alike, with their elders, officials and judges, were standing on both sides of the ark of the covenant of the LORD, facing those who carried it—the priests, who were Levites. Half of the people stood in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the LORD had formerly commanded when he gave instructions to bless the people of Israel.


Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

Psalm 2:4
The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. 5. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, 6. "I have installed my King
on Zion, my holy hill." 7. I will proclaim the decree of the LORD : He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father. 8. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.


Psalm 82:8
Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.


Psalm 111:6
He has shown his people the power of his works, giving them the lands of other nations.


Isaiah 9:3
You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as men rejoice when dividing the plunder.


Isaiah 14:1
The LORD will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.


Isaiah 26:15
You have enlarged the nation, O LORD; you have enlarged the nation. You have gained glory for yourself; you have extended all the borders of the land.


Isaiah 44:5
One will say, 'I belong to the LORD '; another will call himself by the name of Jacob; still another will write on his hand, ['The LORD's / Yahwah],' and will take the name Israel.


Isaiah 56:3
Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people."- 6. And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant-
7. these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."
8. The Sovereign LORD declares— he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered."


Ezekiel 47
21. "You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22. You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23. In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance," declares the Sovereign LORD.


Zechariah 2:10
"Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the LORD. 11. "Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you. 12. The LORD will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13. Be still before the LORD, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."


Matthew 12:21
In his name the nations will put their hope."


The Parable of the Tenants
Luke 20
9. He went on to tell the people this parable: "A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. 10. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11. He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. 12. He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.
13. "Then the owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.' 14. "But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. 'This is the heir,' they said. 'Let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' 15. So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. "What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16. He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they said, "May this never be!" 17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written:

" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone? 18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, and he on whom it falls will be crushed."

19. The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.


Acts 3:25
And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, 'Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.'


Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Romans 3:29
Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,


Romans 4:13
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15. because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17. As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.


Romans 4:18
Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be."


Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.


Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.


Romans 9:24
even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?


Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,...


Romans 10:19
Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, "I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;...


1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.


Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


Ephesians 2:19
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,...


Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.


Titus 3:7
so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.


Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.


Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.


Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called [Christians / Messianics] first at Antioch.


A Jew is a convert to Orthodox Judaism and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

Please read the scriptures and commentary above.

Lazy afternoon
January 3rd, 2015, 08:41 PM
With some of the replies I'm getting I wonder if people are reading what I wrote.:mmph:

Most here are flesh Jew lovers , and flesh church lovers, and true Bride despisers.

They do not care what you write of the truth.(but some visitors will)
LA

CherubRam
January 4th, 2015, 07:11 AM
The Jew is the specimen of what was left after the divine rejection of Israel the Ten Tribes. (Psalm 78:67-69) The new Israel is composed of Judah as the main stem, a few thousands from the Ten Tribes that succeeded to escape the Assyrians and joined Judah in the South, plus the former Gentiles who have converted to Judaism according to Jewish law. (Isa. 56:1-8)
Did you read thread # 1.

chair
January 4th, 2015, 08:54 AM
... I proffer those impostors were the circumcised bastard Shelanite 'Jews', descendants of Judah and his Canaanite wife's son Shelah (Genesis 38:1, 2, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10). They were the instigators of the crucifixion! Those are the squatters who occupy the contemporary nation/state of Israel: circumcised, bastard Shelanite 'Jews' who will not proclaim Tamar, Judah's daughter-in-law through whom David and Jesus arrived, as their maternal ancestress... in case you think those 'Jews' are ancestrally authentic...

kayaker

I "proffer" that you should take your pills. What a load of complete nonsense! Though I must say this is quite creative.

I won't take personal affront, though as a Levite on my father's side and a descendant of David's on my mother's side, I should.

kayaker
January 4th, 2015, 09:05 AM
Did you read thread # 1.

I think Ben did a great job explaining his concept of Jew. The key note there was the "stem of Judah". Judah was the prophesied progenitor of Messiah. The question is/was: would the Messiah arrive via the progeny of Judah and his Canaanite wife (Genesis 38:1, 2, 1Chronicles 2:3) contrary to Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, Ezra 9:1, 2? Or, via Judah and his daughter-in-law, Tamar contrary to Leviticus 18:15, 21:7, 9, 13, 14? Jesus and king David were Pharzites, descendants of Pharez, eldest twin son of Judah and Tamar. Ben is suggesting the authentic lineage to produce Messiah would be through Judah and his Canaanite wife via their son Shelah... father of the Shelanites. Therefore, Jesus is an impostor. On the flip side, Jesus said they were worse than impostors (Revelation 2:9, 3:9). So, they crucified Him... for telling the truth that escapes the masses (John 8:30 KJV, John 8:31 KJC, John 8:32 KJV).

kayaker

chair
January 4th, 2015, 09:22 AM
... Ben is suggesting the authentic lineage to produce Messiah would be through Judah and his Canaanite wife via their son Shelah... father of the Shelanites. Therefore, Jesus is an impostor. ...

Where did Ben say such a thing? Not in this thread.

Straightshot
January 4th, 2015, 09:43 AM
My comments


The Lord knows who the 12 tribes of Israel are, of both the past and the future

All different from Gentile nations .... collective or scattered

Israel has been set apart, and set as an ensign to the Gentile Nations [Isaiah 11]

Israel is the center subject of all Bible Prophecy ..... all recorded by the prophets of Israel

The Lord is a "Jew" by His humanity .... and still is [Revelation 5:5]

The same has been rejected by Israel as Messiah and King, but this condition is going to change and 1/3 of the nation at the time will be spared by their acceptance .... these will inhabit and populate His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth .... the balance will be killed during the time of Jacob's trouble and lost forever

[Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Jeremiah 30; Jeremiah 31:31-37; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39; 40-48; Daniel 9; 12; Joel 2; 3; Micah 4; 5; Obadiah 1:1-21; Zechariah 12; 13:8-9; 14; Matthew 24; Luke 21:20-36; Romans 11:25-36; Revelation 7:1-8; 12; 14:1-7; 15:2-3]

The related theme of the scriptures gives an offset between Issac/Jacob and Ishmael/Esau, and this same offset exists to this very day .... between Israel and the Muslims

This controversy is now being displayed in the Middle East today and the conflict will lead to the intervention of Jesus Christ who will rescue the believing remnant of Israel from destruction by the Muslim hoards ..... and He will destroy Israel's enemies at Armageddon [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; 39; Revelation 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

kayaker
January 4th, 2015, 09:52 AM
I "proffer" that you should take your pills. What a load of complete nonsense! Though I must say this is quite creative.

I won't take personal affront, though as a Levite on my father's side and a descendant of David's on my mother's side, I should.

Ezra 9:1, 2, KJV "Now when these things were done, the princes came to me, saying, The people of Israel, and the priests, AND THE LEVITES, have not separated themselves from the people of the lands, doing according to their abominations, even of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites, the Ammonites, the Moabites, the Egyptians, and the Amorites. 2) For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: YEA, THE HAND OF THE PRINCES AND RULERS HATH BEEN CHIEF IN THIS TRESPASS."

What was it Moses said that Ezra reiterated?

Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, 4, KJV "When the Lord thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2) And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them b, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: 3) Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4) For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the Lord be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly."

So much for ancestry, chair. Sounds more like an impediment... that is, unless you have the birth records refuting the great trespass Ezra recognized. No wonder Jesus doesn't matter... He didn't matter to Nicodemus either, although Nicodemus did realize the magnitude of Jesus' miracles... You guys have anyone who could perform genetic miracles?

Then, tell me chair... you didn't know the Shelanites instigated the crucifixion, then? Of course, they had their Levitical support. Since you proclaim Levitical/Davidic ancestry, you might want to look into that one. It's a good thing to know who you're sleeping with, figuratively speaking. And, the Talmud sorta glossed over the prophesy of Messiah's arrival generation in Genesis 4:24? How convenient... mainstream Christianity hasn't picked up on that one, either, if that's any consolation. Are you sure your ancestors weren't among those set aside in Ezra 10?

Do keep in mind, chair... when the Muslim al-Aqsa mosque gets bulldozed off the temple mount... you might want to have your doomsday bugout back packed.

kayaker

kayaker
January 4th, 2015, 09:58 AM
Where did Ben say such a thing? Not in this thread.

I do stand corrected, chair. Not sure what happened there. I was trying to respond to CherubRam's other, similar thread. Thanks for pointing it out, my apology.

kayaker

kayaker
January 4th, 2015, 11:41 AM
Where did Ben say such a thing? Not in this thread.

Take a look at Ben's post #19 above, chair. Did you catch that "stem of Judah"? Maybe you can ask Ben if the "stem of Judah" were the Shelanites, or Pharzites. After all, Judah, the prophesied progenitor of Messiah, did procreate with his Canaanite wife (Shelanites), and with his daughter-in-law, Tamar (Pharzites). Wouldn't want to leave this key distinction in the abyss (Rev 2:9, 3:9). Good luck getting clarity from Ben, although I do appreciate his summary.

kayaker

kayaker
January 4th, 2015, 12:06 PM
The Jew is the specimen of what was left after the divine rejection of Israel the Ten Tribes. (Psalm 78:67-69) The new Israel is composed of Judah as the main stem, a few thousands from the Ten Tribes that succeeded to escape the Assyrians and joined Judah in the South, plus the former Gentiles who have converted to Judaism according to Jewish law. (Isa. 56:1-8)

Great post, Ben!

"The new Israel is composed of Judah as the main stem..." Are you taking about the Shelanite descendants of Judah and Canaanite wife? Or, are you talking about the Pharzite descendants of Judah and his daughter-in-law, Tamar? The suspense is to die for!

Out of curiosity... "the divine rejection of Israel the ten Tribes." You don't suppose this "divine rejection" had anything to do the great trespass Ezra spoke of in Ezra 9:1, 2, do you? Ezra was reiterating Moses from Deuteronomy 7:1, 2. Wasn't Judah's wife, mother of the Shelanites, a Canaanite (Genesis 38:1, 2, 1 Chronicles 2:3)? Judah's father-in-law Shuah, 'son' of Keturah, wife of Abraham (Genesis 25:1, 2, 3, 4) wasn't one of the 'sons' of Abraham... Judah's CANAANITE father-in-law Shuah was one of the "children of Keturah." Of course, Jesus knew the Shelanites were were "Abraham's seed" (John 8:33 KJV, John 8:37 KJV). And, Jesus knew the Shelanites weren't "Abraham's children" (John 8:39 KJV).

And, here we are back to "The new Israel is composed of Judah as the new stem." So, are you talking Shelanites? Or, Pharzites? I won't hold my breath.

kayaker

CherubRam
January 4th, 2015, 01:21 PM
I think Ben did a great job explaining his concept of Jew. The key note there was the "stem of Judah". Judah was the prophesied progenitor of Messiah. The question is/was: would the Messiah arrive via the progeny of Judah and his Canaanite wife (Genesis 38:1, 2, 1Chronicles 2:3) contrary to Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3, Ezra 9:1, 2? Or, via Judah and his daughter-in-law, Tamar contrary to Leviticus 18:15, 21:7, 9, 13, 14? Jesus and king David were Pharzites, descendants of Pharez, eldest twin son of Judah and Tamar. Ben is suggesting the authentic lineage to produce Messiah would be through Judah and his Canaanite wife via their son Shelah... father of the Shelanites. Therefore, Jesus is an impostor. On the flip side, Jesus said they were worse than impostors (Revelation 2:9, 3:9). So, they crucified Him... for telling the truth that escapes the masses (John 8:30 KJV, John 8:31 KJC, John 8:32 KJV).

kayaker

Joseph was of a royal family line from David, and Mary was a Levite family member. Jewish identity by family line did not exist when Christ lived, it was invented by the Rabbi's after Christ. The family line thingy was just another way for them to deny Christ.

chair
January 4th, 2015, 02:23 PM
Joseph was of a royal family line from David, and Mary was a Levite family member. Jewish identity by family line did not exist when Christ lived, it was invented by the Rabbi's after Christ. The family line thingy was just another way for them to deny Christ.

So how was Jewish identity figured when Jesus lived?

edit: And how does that help us "deny Christ"?

CherubRam
January 4th, 2015, 05:24 PM
So how was Jewish identity figured when Jesus lived?

edit: And how does that help us "deny Christ"?

Before and during the life of Christ the Jewish identity was, any person who was of the Judaic faith was a Jew. That did not change until after his death.

Orthodox Jews claim that He (God) would not father a child upon a human woman. So, the idea of Jesus Christ being a human, fathered by the Holy Spirit is not 'impossible', it would just prove God to be a liar. If the lineage goes through Mary, it does not count because tribal lineage only goes through the father, while national lineage only goes through the mother. If it goes through Joseph, it does not count, because Joseph was not his father.


I would like to state that Christians never claimed that God procreated through Mary, but that He (God) created a body in the linage of David.


Psalm 40 commentary.
N.I.V. foot note for Psalms 40:6 reads: “Hebrew; Septuagint: but a body you have prepared for me. (See also Symmachus and Theodotion)” End of quote. Symmachus the Ebonite was a late 2nd century author of one of the Greek versions of the Old Testament.


Although Theodotion was Anti-Christ, it may not have occurred to him to change the Hebrew Psalm script from reading: “But a body you have prepared for me.” In Hebrews 10:5 the verse is also repeated. “Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: "Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;”…

chair
January 5th, 2015, 03:54 AM
Before and during the life of Christ the Jewish identity was, any person who was of the Judaic faith was a Jew. That did not change until after his death.


And how do you know this? Have some Jewish sources on this?




Orthodox Jews claim that He (God) would not father a child upon a human woman. ...

Orthodox Jews are far more concerned with observing the Sabbath and eating kosher food than they are with your rather convoluted theology. Please try, very hard, to get this into your head:

Jews and Judaism are not about Christianity.

We have our own traditions, many of which predate your religion by 1,000 years.

Christianity started out as a Jewish cult.

CherubRam
January 5th, 2015, 04:45 AM
And how do you know this? Have some Jewish sources on this?



Orthodox Jews are far more concerned with observing the Sabbath and eating kosher food than they are with your rather convoluted theology. Please try, very hard, to get this into your head:

Jews and Judaism are not about Christianity.

We have our own traditions, many of which predate your religion by 1,000 years.

Christianity started out as a Jewish cult.
Christianity is a branch of Judaism. In the New testament it speaks of Pharisees being active in seeking converts of other people. That came to an end with the destruction of the temple and Israel.

beloved57
January 5th, 2015, 04:53 AM
cherub


Christianity is a branch of Judaism.

False Teaching, in fact judaism has always opposed Christianity !

CherubRam
January 5th, 2015, 07:28 AM
cherub



False Teaching, in fact judaism has always opposed Christianity !Before people were called Christians they were called converts, that being the faith of Judaism.

Judaize

YLT
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they are not walking uprightly to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before all, `If thou, being a Jew, in the manner of the nations dost live, and not in the manner of the Jews, how the nations dost thou compel to Judaize?


Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not walking uprightly according to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before everyone, If you, being a Jew live in the manner of the nations, and not in the manner of the Jews, then how will you compel the nations to Judaize?

beloved57
January 5th, 2015, 07:34 AM
Before people were called Christians they were called converts, that being the faith of Judaism.

Judaize

YLT
Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they are not walking uprightly to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before all, `If thou, being a Jew, in the manner of the nations dost live, and not in the manner of the Jews, how the nations dost thou compel to Judaize?


Galatians 2:14
But when I saw that they were not walking uprightly according to the truth of the good news, I said to Peter before everyone, If you, being a Jew live in the manner of the nations, and not in the manner of the Jews, then how will you compel the nations to Judaize?

Again, Judaism has always opposed God and Christianity !

CherubRam
January 5th, 2015, 07:40 AM
Again, Judaism has always opposed God and Christianity !

Judaism does nothing, people do. There are people in Judaism that oppose God and Christianity. Now that is true.

chair
January 5th, 2015, 08:05 AM
Again, Judaism has always opposed God and Christianity !

I gather that God did not exist before our Jeiwsh brother Jesus was born.

beloved57
January 5th, 2015, 09:05 AM
Judaism does nothing, people do. There are people in Judaism that oppose God and Christianity. Now that is true.

Again, Judaism has always opposed God and Christianity ! And I know its people !

beloved57
January 5th, 2015, 09:06 AM
I gather that God did not exist before our Jeiwsh brother Jesus was born.

Rabbit Trail !

CherubRam
April 10th, 2015, 03:16 AM
I'm bumping this thread for those who have not read it yet.

CherubRam
August 8th, 2015, 04:10 AM
A bump for any who have not read this thread.:)

CherubRam
November 27th, 2015, 06:47 PM
Exodus 4:22
22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn.


In the verse above, Israel is being used to mean nation.

Genesis 32:28
Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”

daqq
November 27th, 2015, 08:21 PM
Exodus 4:22
22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord: “Israel is My son, My firstborn.

In the verse above, Israel is being used to mean nation.

Genesis 32:28
Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”

Was just discussing that recently elsewhere in two other places:



Jesus Christ is Israel,

:thumb:

Was just discussing that recently elsewhere:


"If Moshe and the Prophets not they hear: neither would they be convinced if someone arose from the dead."

Exodus 3:1-6
1. Now Moshe kept the flock of Yithro, his father in law, Priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mount of ha-Elohim, Horeb.
2. And the Malak-Angel of YHWH appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
3. And Moshe said, I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
4. And when YHWH saw that he turned aside to see, Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moshe, Moshe! And he said, Here am I.
5. And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off your shoes from off your feet, for the place whereon you stand is holy ground.
6. Moreover he said, I am Elohey of your father, Elohey Abraham, Elohey Yitschaq, and Elohey Yakob. And Moshe hid his face because he feared to look toward ha-Elohim.

But Matthew and Mark quote Exo 3:6 while Luke quotes Exo 3:15, (YHWH Elohim). :)


Was just discussing that recently elsewhere. :)

Isaiah 45:3 Transliterated Unaccented
3. Wnatatiy lka 'owtsrowt choshek uwmaTmuney mictariym, lma`an teda` kiy- 'niy YHWH ha-Qowre' bshimka 'Elohey Yisra'el.

Isaiah 45:1-5
1. Thus says YHWH to His Mashiyach, to Koresh, [LXX - "Kuros" which is the root for Kurios] whose right hand I have taken hold of, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut:
2. I will go before you, and make the crooked places straight; I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3. And I will give you the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, [hidden from the foundation of the world - Matthew 13:35] that you may know that I am YHWH, Who calls you by your name: 'Elohey Yisra'el.
4. For the sake of Yaakob My servant, and Yisrael My chosen-elect, I have even called you by your name: I have surnamed you, ["Elohey Yisrael"] though you have not known Me!
5. I am YHWH, and there is none else, there is no Elohim beside Me: I gird you, though you have not known Me:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4531697&postcount=8

Exodus 4:22
22. And you shall say unto Pharaoh, Thus says YHWH, Yisrael is My Son, My Firstborn!

In addition the Septuagint version of Exodus 4:22 reads Prototokos.
And all the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yochanan, (Matthew 11:13). :)

Perhaps Malak Yisrael gave his name to Yakob, (Yisrael) in Genesis 32:28? :chuckle:

Interplanner
November 27th, 2015, 09:37 PM
Who is a Jew or the nation Israel.
This is what God has spoken through His prophets.


Genesis 17:3
Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4. "As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5. No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.


Genesis 35:11
And God said to him, "I am God Almighty; be fruitful and increase in number. A nation and a community of nations will come from you, and kings will come from your body.


Exodus 12:37
The Israelites journeyed from Rameses to Succoth. There were about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children. 38. Many other people went up with them, as well as large droves of livestock, both flocks and herds.


Leviticus 19:34
The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.


Leviticus 24:22
You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.


Numbers 15:15
The community is to have the same rules for you and for the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before the LORD :


Joshua 8:33
All Israel, aliens and citizens alike, with their elders, officials and judges, were standing on both sides of the ark of the covenant of the LORD, facing those who carried it—the priests, who were Levites. Half of the people stood in front of Mount Gerizim and half of them in front of Mount Ebal, as Moses the servant of the LORD had formerly commanded when he gave instructions to bless the people of Israel.


Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

Psalm 2:4
The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. 5. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, 6. "I have installed my King
on Zion, my holy hill." 7. I will proclaim the decree of the LORD : He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father. 8. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession.


Psalm 82:8
Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.


Psalm 111:6
He has shown his people the power of his works, giving them the lands of other nations.


Isaiah 9:3
You have enlarged the nation and increased their joy; they rejoice before you as people rejoice at the harvest, as men rejoice when dividing the plunder.


Isaiah 14:1
The LORD will have compassion on Jacob; once again he will choose Israel and will settle them in their own land. Aliens will join them and unite with the house of Jacob.


Isaiah 26:15
You have enlarged the nation, O LORD; you have enlarged the nation. You have gained glory for yourself; you have extended all the borders of the land.


Isaiah 44:5
One will say, 'I belong to the LORD '; another will call himself by the name of Jacob; still another will write on his hand, ['The LORD's / Yahwah],' and will take the name Israel.


Isaiah 56:3
Let no foreigner who has bound himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people."- 6. And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to serve him, to love the name of the LORD, and to worship him, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it
and who hold fast to my covenant-
7. these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."
8. The Sovereign LORD declares— he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered."


Ezekiel 47
21. "You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22. You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23. In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance," declares the Sovereign LORD.


Zechariah 2:10
"Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the LORD. 11. "Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you. 12. The LORD will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13. Be still before the LORD, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."


Matthew 12:21
In his name the nations will put their hope."


The Parable of the Tenants
Luke 20
9. He went on to tell the people this parable: "A man planted a vineyard, rented it to some farmers and went away for a long time. 10. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants so they would give him some of the fruit of the vineyard. But the tenants beat him and sent him away empty-handed. 11. He sent another servant, but that one also they beat and treated shamefully and sent away empty-handed. 12. He sent still a third, and they wounded him and threw him out.
13. "Then the owner of the vineyard said, 'What shall I do? I will send my son, whom I love; perhaps they will respect him.' 14. "But when the tenants saw him, they talked the matter over. 'This is the heir,' they said. 'Let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' 15. So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him. "What then will the owner of the vineyard do to them? 16. He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others." When the people heard this, they said, "May this never be!" 17. Jesus looked directly at them and asked, "Then what is the meaning of that which is written:

" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone? 18. Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces, and he on whom it falls will be crushed."

19. The teachers of the law and the chief priests looked for a way to arrest him immediately, because they knew he had spoken this parable against them. But they were afraid of the people.


Acts 3:25
And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, 'Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.'


Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


Romans 3:29
Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,


Romans 4:13
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15. because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16. Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17. As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.


Romans 4:18
Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be."


Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.


Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.


Romans 9:24
even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?


Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,...


Romans 10:19
Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, "I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;...


1 Corinthians 14:21
In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.


Ephesians 2:12
remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


Ephesians 2:19
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,...


Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Colossians 3:11
Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.


Titus 3:7
so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.


Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.


Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.


Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Acts 11:26
and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called [Christians / Messianics] first at Antioch.


A Jew is a convert to Orthodox Judaism and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.


You can save a lot of space by just doing a treatment of Rom 9:6 plus, with all the original terms sorted out: tekna vs sperma.

CherubRam
November 27th, 2015, 10:08 PM
Was just discussing that recently elsewhere in two other places:



Perhaps Malak Yisrael gave his name to Yakob, (Yisrael) in Genesis 32:28? :chuckle:

The "Messenger of Yahwah" was Peniel, whom was born Yahshua. Peniel, born "Yahshua," he gave Yakob the name Yisrael.

CherubRam
November 27th, 2015, 10:10 PM
You can save a lot of space by just doing a treatment of Rom 9:6 plus, with all the original terms sorted out: tekna vs sperma.

The over kill is for those who would have any doubt.

daqq
November 27th, 2015, 11:02 PM
The "Messenger of Yahwah" was Peniel, whom was born Yahshua. Peniel, born "Yahshua," he gave Yakob the name Yisrael.

That would be from the compound, (Seven Elohim-Angels in his right hand) Arsayalalyur/Asaryalalyur-Asariel-Sariel-Uriel-Phanuel who is Yistrael-Istrael, (which is a corruption of Yisrael-Israel found in a Greek manuscript of Enoch 10:1 and in Jubilees 31:15 as well as other places).

Perhaps continue your searches and studies here:

JUBILEES
6. THE ETHIOPIC AND LATIN VERSIONS-TRANSLATIONS FROM THE GREEK.

Like all the biblical literature in Ethiopic, Jubilees was translated into Ethiopic from the Greek. Greek words such as [drus, balanos, lips, schinos, pharaggs, &c., are transliterated into Ethiopic. Secondly, many passages must be retranslated into Greek before we can discover the source of their corruptions. And finally, many names are transliterated as they appear in Greek and not in Hebrew. That the Latin is derived directly from the Greek is no less obvious. Thus in xxxix. 12 [(Lt.) timoris = (Gk.) deilias], a corruption of douleias; in xxxviii. 13 [(Lt.) honorem = (Gk.) timen], which should have been rendered by (Lt.) tributum. Another class of mistranslations may be seen in passages where the Greek article is rendered by the Latin demonstrative as in (Lt.) huius Abrahae xxix. i6, huic Istrael xxxi. 15. Other evidence pointing in the same direction is to be found in the Greek constructions which have been reproduced in the Latin; such as xvii. 3 (Lt.) mem or fuit sermones' = (Gk.) hemnesthe tous logous: in xv. 22 (Lt.) consummavit loquens = (Gk.) Sunetelese lalon: in xxii. 8 (Lt.) 'in omnibus quibus dedisti' = en pasin ois edokas.
http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/jubilee/index.htm


:sheep:

daqq
November 27th, 2015, 11:53 PM
Also Sariel is hinted in the text:

Genesis 32:28 Transliterated
28. (32:29 in Heb.) Wayo'mer, Lo' Ya`qob ye'amer `owd shimka kiy 'im- Yisra'el kiy- sariyta `im- 'Elohiym w`im-'nashiym watuwkal!

"Sariy-ta `im 'Elohiym" ~ "A Prince you [are/have been] with Elohim"

Genesis 32:28
28. And he said, No more shall your name be called Yakob, but Yisrael, because you have been a prince [sariy-ta] with Elohim, and with men, and have overcome!

Sariel = Yisrael

Crucible
November 28th, 2015, 04:12 AM
'Support Israel' is an obsession many Christians have stumbled upon, next to the Liberal obsession of defending the reputation of Muslims.

Meanwhile, their own countries are falling apart. So much for Christian prominence.

CherubRam
November 28th, 2015, 05:45 AM
Also Sariel is hinted in the text:

Genesis 32:28 Transliterated
28. (32:29 in Heb.) Wayo'mer, Lo' Ya`qob ye'amer `owd shimka kiy 'im- Yisra'el kiy- sariyta `im- 'Elohiym w`im-'nashiym watuwkal!

"Sariy-ta `im 'Elohiym" ~ "A Prince you [are/have been] with Elohim"

Genesis 32:28
28. And he said, No more shall your name be called Yakob, but Yisrael, because you have been a prince [sariy-ta] with Elohim, and with men, and have overcome!

Sariel = Yisrael

Sariel = Yisrael / Can you offer a better explanation? Are you working from the KJV? SAR would be leader or minister, but not prince.

CherubRam
November 28th, 2015, 05:49 AM
That would be from the compound, (Seven Elohim-Angels in his right hand) Arsayalalyur/Asaryalalyur-Asariel-Sariel-Uriel-Phanuel who is Yistrael-Istrael, (which is a corruption of Yisrael-Israel found in a Greek manuscript of Enoch 10:1 and in Jubilees 31:15 as well as other places).

Perhaps continue your searches and studies here:

JUBILEES
6. THE ETHIOPIC AND LATIN VERSIONS-TRANSLATIONS FROM THE GREEK.

Like all the biblical literature in Ethiopic, Jubilees was translated into Ethiopic from the Greek. Greek words such as [drus, balanos, lips, schinos, pharaggs, &c., are transliterated into Ethiopic. Secondly, many passages must be retranslated into Greek before we can discover the source of their corruptions. And finally, many names are transliterated as they appear in Greek and not in Hebrew. That the Latin is derived directly from the Greek is no less obvious. Thus in xxxix. 12 [(Lt.) timoris = (Gk.) deilias], a corruption of douleias; in xxxviii. 13 [(Lt.) honorem = (Gk.) timen], which should have been rendered by (Lt.) tributum. Another class of mistranslations may be seen in passages where the Greek article is rendered by the Latin demonstrative as in (Lt.) huius Abrahae xxix. i6, huic Istrael xxxi. 15. Other evidence pointing in the same direction is to be found in the Greek constructions which have been reproduced in the Latin; such as xvii. 3 (Lt.) mem or fuit sermones' = (Gk.) hemnesthe tous logous: in xv. 22 (Lt.) consummavit loquens = (Gk.) Sunetelese lalon: in xxii. 8 (Lt.) 'in omnibus quibus dedisti' = en pasin ois edokas.
http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/jubilee/index.htm


:sheep:

Phanuel is an alternate spelling for Peniel. Peniel is Phanuel.

Gurucam
November 28th, 2015, 06:08 AM
Who is a Jew or the nation Israel?

They are people who deny and renounce the Lord Jesus.

It is reported that: the law of Jewish Rabbis, for those seeking to live in Israel, is as follow:

One must clearly show one's Jewish heritage through some complicated red tape approach (this is the slow track approach) . . . Or totally denounce the Lord Jesus (this is the fast track approach).

That is O.K. for them, in their 'land'. They esteem the law, sin and punishment in hell and they will be dealt with under the law, sin and punishment in hell. Everyone knows where they stand. They are forthright about their approach to life (they are not like some people who are doing the same thing covertly).

However the approach of the Jews is not acceptable outside of their 'land'. Any one doing that among Christians are false prophets who came in Jesus' name. They are false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage (i.e. under the law, sin and punishment in hell)

Galatians: 2 KJV N.T.
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage (i.e. under the law, sin and punishment in hell) :

Acts: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
21 But now (since 2000 odd years ago) the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

2 Corinthians: 3 KJV N.T.
17 Now (since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

daqq
November 28th, 2015, 06:14 AM
Phanuel is an alternate spelling for Peniel. Peniel is Phanuel.

Yes, I know, that is why when you said Peniel I said Phanuel. :)


Sariel = Yisrael / Can you offer a better explanation? Are you working from the KJV? SAR would be leader or minister, but not prince.

Sar can be a minister, a leader, or even a "head", (as rendered in Young's Literal Bible Translation) but can be and certainly is rendered also as prince like as it is in Isaiah 9:6 KJV, "Prince of Peace", (Sar Shalom) and in Daniel 8:25 KJV, "Prince of princes", (Sar sariym) and from Daniel 10:20, "Prince of Persia", (Sar Parac) and "Prince of Grecia", (Sar Yavan) and so on, and so on:

Daniel 12:1 KJV
1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince [haSar haGadol] which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

CherubRam
November 28th, 2015, 07:02 AM
Yes, I know, that is why when you said Peniel I said Phanuel. :)



Sar can be a minister, a leader, or even a "head", (as rendered in Young's Literal Bible Translation) but can be and certainly is rendered also as prince like as it is in Isaiah 9:6 KJV, "Prince of Peace", (Sar Shalom) and in Daniel 8:25 KJV, "Prince of princes", (Sar sariym) and from Daniel 10:20, "Prince of Persia", (Sar Parac) and "Prince of Grecia", (Sar Yavan) and so on, and so on:

Daniel 12:1 KJV
1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince [haSar haGadol] which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Prince, Minister, Leader, Sar

Brown-Driver-Briggs makes a very good argument for the word "sar" meaning royalty, in Assyrian. (King) However, using another language to translate a word can be both helpful, and misleading. What they did not take into consideration is the fact that royalty also acted as ministers. (As in, ministering in peace.) Or (Minister of the faith.) The Hebrew word "Sar" is best translated as "Minister." The Hebrew word "Sar" should never be given a translation as having to do with royalty.


Brown-Driver-Briggs
שַׂר420 noun masculine chieftain, chief, ruler, official, captain, prince (Late Hebrew especially of angels; Assyrian šarru, king)

CherubRam
November 28th, 2015, 07:08 AM
Yes, I know, that is why when you said Peniel I said Phanuel. :)



Sar can be a minister, a leader, or even a "head", (as rendered in Young's Literal Bible Translation) but can be and certainly is rendered also as prince like as it is in Isaiah 9:6 KJV, "Prince of Peace", (Sar Shalom) and in Daniel 8:25 KJV, "Prince of princes", (Sar sariym) and from Daniel 10:20, "Prince of Persia", (Sar Parac) and "Prince of Grecia", (Sar Yavan) and so on, and so on:

Daniel 12:1 KJV
1. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince [haSar haGadol] which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Daniel 12:1New International Version (NIV)
The End Times

12 “At that time Michael, the great (prince / minister) who protects your people, will arise. (rise up) There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.

Michael is a man born in the last days according to Enoch and also the Dead Sea Scrolls.

CherubRam
November 28th, 2015, 07:13 AM
They are people who deny and renounce the Lord Jesus.

It is reported that: the law of Jewish Rabbis, for those seeking to live in Israel, is as follow:

One must clearly show one's Jewish heritage through some complicated red tape approach (this is the slow track approach) . . . Or totally denounce the Lord Jesus (this is the fast track approach).

That is O.K. for them, in their 'land'. They esteem the law, sin and punishment in hell and they will be dealt with under the law, sin and punishment in hell. Everyone knows where they stand. They are forthright about their approach to life (they are not like some people who are doing the same thing covertly).

However the approach of the Jews is not acceptable outside of their 'land'. Any one doing that among Christians are false prophets who came in Jesus' name. They are false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage (i.e. under the law, sin and punishment in hell)

Hell has never been a teaching in Judaism. There are some Rabbi's who believe Yahshua was the messiah, but they keep it to themselves. The moral laws of God have not been done away with under the New Covenant.

daqq
November 28th, 2015, 07:33 AM
Prince, Minister, Leader, Sar

Brown-Driver-Briggs makes a very good argument for the word "sar" meaning royalty, in Assyrian. (King) However, using another language to translate a word can be both helpful, and misleading. What they did not take into consideration is the fact that royalty also acted as ministers. (As in, ministering in peace.) Or (Minister of the faith.) The Hebrew word "Sar" is best translated as "Minister." The Hebrew word "Sar" should never be given a translation as having to do with royalty.


Brown-Driver-Briggs
שַׂר420 noun masculine chieftain, chief, ruler, official, captain, prince (Late Hebrew especially of angels; Assyrian šarru, king)

I just saw what you just posted in your other thread concerning this and it really is rediculous. If you want to go around telling people there is no such thing as the Prince of peace then go right ahead and see how far that gets you. The problem you actually have is a mental paradigm that does not allow for "angelic beings" anywhere in the text because you have already decided for yourself that there are no such beings but rather "the pagans and the RCC inserted their paganism into the scriptures" as you have said on many occasions. I thank God that you were not a Pope who lived some fifteen or sixteen hundred years ago because, if so, we might not have any mention of angelic beings left at all in the Scripture. If it were up to you the Prince of princes would rather be "the Minister of ministers"! :crackup:

Sar is much more often used to denote one who has authority over others like a general or a captain of an army. What do you do with the following passages which both speak of the same personage? Is this the "minister" of the armies of YHWH?

Daniel 8:11a
11a. Yea, he magnified himself even to the Captain of the host-army [Sar tsaba']

Joshua 5:13-15
13. And it came to pass, when Yhoshua was by Yericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Yhoshua went unto him, and said unto him, Are you for us, or for our adversaries?
14. And he said, Nay, but as Captain of the host-army of YHWH [Sar tsaba' YHWH] am I now come. And Yhoshua fell on his face to the earth, and did obeisance, and said unto him, What saith Adoniy unto his servant?
15. And Sar tsaba' YHWH said unto Yhoshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon you stand is holy. And Yhoshua did so.

Also, from the OP in your other thread, was it not already mentioned twice to you concerning nagiyd and the Nagiyd-Commander of the Covenant in that "other" forum? You still do not even have the correct Reference Number listed for nagiyd and this is now the third time it has been mentioned. You really need to change that before you copy and paste it again. :chuckle:

Gurucam
November 28th, 2015, 08:28 AM
Hell has never been a teaching in Judaism. There are some Rabbi's who believe Yahshua was the messiah, but they keep it to themselves. The moral laws of God have not been done away with under the New Covenant.

What are "moral laws of God"? Did you get those privately?

Where did you get those?

You said: "There are some Rabbi's who believe Yahshua was the messiah, but they keep it to themselves." That is even worse.

Matthews: 12 KJV N.T.
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

Mark: 3 KJV N.T.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

Mark: 33 KJV N.T.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Isn't this a generalized statement? Also isn't it worse if any group of people are divide covertly within their ranks?

How can the law and sin exist without punishment in hell?

Don't you guys believe in heaven and hell?

What happens among you guys when you all transgress the law, are you rewarded in heaven?

It was reported that the Jews of Old were themselves, transgressing the law privately. However, in public, they were stoning people to death for transgressing the law. Is this how the law of sin works among you guys?

Others who esteem Moses' teachings believe that when they do some acts, they go straight to heaven to live with many virgins? What is your take and your people's take on this idea?

If some deeds can earn one heaven, then certain some others could certainly earn one hell?

daqq
November 28th, 2015, 08:36 AM
Michael is a man born in the last days according to Enoch and also the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Do you know why that is? Because in the Septuagint Old Greek, (before Theodotion) it says in Daniel 12:1 that Michael shall pass away and that is likewise the reason for the great time of trouble which had never been until that time, (nor ever shall be). And, of course, the Old Greek is correct, imo, for even the sariym-princes are said to fall, (Psalm 82:6-7). However this does not mean there are no such things as angelic beings because the seven Spirits are the seven eyes upon the one Stone, and they are the seven eyes of YHWH, and being seven eyes they are therefore the seven holy Watchers which are ha-Elohim-Angels, and the Torah was given through Angels according to the Scripture. So if you want to say "ministers", well okay, but in that sense they are "ministers of fire". :)

Gurucam
November 28th, 2015, 09:07 AM
Hello, my name is Michael; I am a Judaic Christian. That is a type of Protestant Christian. It also means that I believe in keeping the commands of God under the New Covenant.


Hebrews: 8 KJV N.T.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
21 But now (since 2000 odd years ago) the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Acts: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Galatians: 5 KJV N.T.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Galatians: 3 KJV N.T.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (i.e. the law of sin)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

You sound like some kind of foolish and confused person. Don't you want to be a child of God/sons of God?

There can be no different types of Christians?

There can only be false Christians and real ones. On this earth, there is only a few real Christians. They are the chosen few.

The remainder are misled and foolishly and corruptly believe that they are Christians. These are billions. They are the great majority of people who are called to be Christians but are not chosen. They are misled by false peophets who came in Jesus' name. They know that their idea about Christianity is simply one among many. Therefore they have no choice but to falsely and corruptly believe that there are many types of Christians because there are many beliefs of what is Christianity. The very idea that there are many types of Christians is corrupt.

There in only one totally correct set of ideas that is Christianity. Only those few who have this correct set of ideas about Christianity could be Christians. This correct set of ideas about Christianity is the set that the chosen few have and use. Only they are authentic Christians. Only these few are saved and/or chosen.

All others sets of ideas about Christianity are false. They lead to many types of Christians. These are all false Christians. They are not saved and/or chosen.

Matthew: 7 KJV N.T.
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew: 22 KJV N.T.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
The chosen few know that there is only one correct path that is Christianity and they have adapted it.

On the other hand the great masses (billions) believe that there are many types of Christians. They err and are not chosen.

Only a false prophet who came in Jesus name will mislead you into believing that there are different types of Christians. They generally want your soul and spirit for Satan.

You are taking your salvation and deliverance much too lightly. You are walking around unaware, ready, available and willing to be suckered by false prophets who came in Jesus' name Fact is strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The few who find the strait gate and narrow way are those who know the only correct set of ideas that constitute Christianity. You want to be among that small set of people. They are the chosen few. They are no millions in that group. There are not even hundreds of thousands in that group. There are just a few in that group.

Truster
November 28th, 2015, 10:29 AM
Jew is a fairly recent addition to the English language as is the letter 'J'. The fact you are using the term Jew proves that you haven't got a clue as to what the original word in Hebrew means.
The same applies to Israel and until you know what the original words meant to the people who first heard them you will keep going around in circles.

Your OP reminds me of children playing a game of pretend and in this case you are pretending to understand something that you haven't got a clue about.

CherubRam
November 28th, 2015, 11:45 AM
Do you know why that is? Because in the Septuagint Old Greek, (before Theodotion) it says in Daniel 12:1 that Michael shall pass away and that is likewise the reason for the great time of trouble which had never been until that time, (nor ever shall be). And, of course, the Old Greek is correct, imo, for even the sariym-princes are said to fall, (Psalm 82:6-7). However this does not mean there are no such things as angelic beings because the seven Spirits are the seven eyes upon the one Stone, and they are the seven eyes of YHWH, and being seven eyes they are therefore the seven holy Watchers which are ha-Elohim-Angels, and the Torah was given through Angels according to the Scripture. So if you want to say "ministers", well okay, but in that sense they are "ministers of fire". :)

The Septuagint is a poor translation.

CherubRam
November 28th, 2015, 11:52 AM
I see that Gurucam is putting words in my mouth by misquoting me. What an evil thing to do.

Gurucam
November 28th, 2015, 12:44 PM
I see that Gurucam is putting words in my mouth by misquoting me. What an evil thing to do.

Are you saying that I misquoted you?

Where? What are the words that I ascribed to you that are not yours or what words are not who you are?

I am ready and willing to accept correction and to apologize as well.

Please show and tell me what is my precise transgression?

Can't seem to get you to make a definitive statement.

. . . I could back-up my claims. At least I perceive that I could do so. However I cannot try if you do not get precise.

Actually the only thing that I quoted from you is

Hello, my name is Michael; I am a Judaic Christian. That is a type of Protestant Christian. It also means that I believe in keeping the commands of God under the New Covenant.

Are you saying that those are not your words?

This is not you? Click the following for my source:

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21757-cherubram/

Gurucam
November 28th, 2015, 01:03 PM
Jew is a fairly recent addition to the English language as is the letter 'J'. The fact you are using the term Jew proves that you haven't got a clue as to what the original word in Hebrew means.
The same applies to Israel and until you know what the original words meant to the people who first heard them you will keep going around in circles.

Your OP reminds me of children playing a game of pretend and in this case you are pretending to understand something that you haven't got a clue about.

I am not sure that you are referring to my use of the word: Jew.

If so well here goes:

I do not wish to get into lettered discernment with killeth. Also I do not wish to get into 'the Jews' and the details of their tradition.

My reference was simple and superficial but accurate as far as I know . . . as they relate to Christianity. I am not attempting to prove that I have a clue as to what the original word in Hebrew means. I am happy and content with the meaning conveyed in the KJV N.T.

At any event, I cannot discern how your statement relates to what I posted. You seem to want to 'any which way' point out that you have and use a Hebrew/English dictionary. Is this your aim?

You are free to correct what I posted, which were the following:

They are people who deny and renounce the Lord Jesus.

It is reported that: the law of Jewish Rabbis, for those seeking to live in Israel, is as follow:

One must clearly show one's Jewish heritage through some complicated red tape approach (this is the slow track approach) . . . Or totally denounce the Lord Jesus (this is the fast track approach).

That is O.K. for them, in their 'land'. They esteem the law, sin and punishment in hell and they will be dealt with under the law, sin and punishment in hell. Everyone knows where they stand. They are forthright about their approach to life (they are not like some people who are doing the same thing covertly).

However the approach of the Jews is not acceptable outside of their 'land'. Any one doing that among Christians are false prophets who came in Jesus' name. They are false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage (i.e. under the law, sin and punishment in hell)
Please correct anything that you perceives to be not correct in the above.

Is the use of the letter "J" and the word "Jews" confusing to you? Are you suggesting that their insertion and meaning in English Language is inaccurate and should not be allowed? What is your point?

Do you not get the point that I am making?

If you do get the point that I am making then communication is complete and perfect. If not then I will have to use more words. However you will have to tell me more precisely exactly what is confusing you.

CherubRam
November 28th, 2015, 01:41 PM
Are you saying that I misquoted you?

Where? What are the words that I ascribed to you that are not yours or what words are not who you are?

I am ready and willing to accept correction and to apologize as well.

Please show and tell me what is my precise transgression?

Can't seem to get you to make a definitive statement.

. . . I could back-up my claims. At least I perceive that I could do so. However I cannot try if you do not get precise.

Actually the only thing that I quoted from you is


Are you saying that those are not your words?

This is not you? Click the following for my source:

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/21757-cherubram/

The problem is post #64. You figure it out.

Gurucam
November 28th, 2015, 02:06 PM
The problem is post #64. You figure it out.

I do not have to figure out any thing. You made a claim please back it up with precise support.

This is not about games. This is a about straight forward debating.

You are posturing like a lemon used car sales man.

CherubRam
November 28th, 2015, 06:13 PM
Google Translate of the Hebrew word Sar: https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/%D7%A9%D6%B7%D7%82%D7%A8

daqq
November 29th, 2015, 03:54 AM
You sound like some kind of foolish and confused person. Don't you want to be a child of God/sons of God?

There can be no different types of Christians?

There can only be false Christians and real ones. On this earth, there is only a few real Christians. They are the chosen few.

The remainder are misled and foolishly and corruptly believe that they are Christians. These are billions. They are the great majority of people who are called to be Christians but are not chosen. They are misled by false peophets who came in Jesus' name. They know that their idea about Christianity is simply one among many. Therefore they have no choice but to falsely and corruptly believe that there are many types of Christians because there are many beliefs of what is Christianity. The very idea that there are many types of Christians is corrupt.

There in only one totally correct set of ideas that is Christianity. Only those few who have this correct set of ideas about Christianity could be Christians. This correct set of ideas about Christianity is the set that the chosen few have and use. Only they are authentic Christians. Only these few are saved and/or chosen.

All others sets of ideas about Christianity are false. They lead to many types of Christians. These are all false Christians. They are not saved and/or chosen.


The chosen few know that there is only one correct path that is Christianity and they have adapted it.

On the other hand the great masses (billions) believe that there are many types of Christians. They err and are not chosen.

Only a false prophet who came in Jesus name will mislead you into believing that there are different types of Christians. They generally want your soul and spirit for Satan.

You are taking your salvation and deliverance much too lightly. You are walking around unaware, ready, available and willing to be suckered by false prophets who came in Jesus' name Fact is strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The few who find the strait gate and narrow way are those who know the only correct set of ideas that constitute Christianity. You want to be among that small set of people. They are the chosen few. They are no millions in that group. There are not even hundreds of thousands in that group. There are just a few in that group.



Hi Gurucam, nice to meet you, if one is going to use quotes from Yeshua, (Jesus) to support what he or she says and believes, (which I think is excellently awesome and whole-heartedly agree with!) then the same must certainly be willing to accept everything the Master says, that is, everything written that is attributed to him, correct? Let's not be picky and choosy here, right? Alrighty then, friend, I'm quite sure you must agree or you would not be quoting from his words: so how then do you understand the following and apply it to yourself?

Matthew 15:21-28 KJV
21. Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22. And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

As one may clearly see in the above passage worship was not the point. However I would particularly like to know your understanding of this clear emphatic statement which was never altered, rescinded, expounded, or even explained; it simply is what it is, and stands to this day because the words of Messiah shall not pass away:

Matthew 15:24 RSV
24. He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 NJB
24. He said in reply, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 WEY
24. "I have only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel," He replied.

So apparently then, if one is not of "the lost sheep of the house of Israel", Yeshua clearly and emphatically states that he was not sent to that person, period. How then does one become of the lost sheep of the house of Israel? or do you not agree that the above applies to you? :)

:sheep:

CherubRam
November 29th, 2015, 06:25 AM
Do you know why that is? Because in the Septuagint Old Greek, (before Theodotion) it says in Daniel 12:1 that Michael shall pass away and that is likewise the reason for the great time of trouble which had never been until that time, (nor ever shall be). And, of course, the Old Greek is correct, imo, for even the sariym-princes are said to fall, (Psalm 82:6-7). However this does not mean there are no such things as angelic beings because the seven Spirits are the seven eyes upon the one Stone, and they are the seven eyes of YHWH, and being seven eyes they are therefore the seven holy Watchers which are ha-Elohim-Angels, and the Torah was given through Angels according to the Scripture. So if you want to say "ministers", well okay, but in that sense they are "ministers of fire". :)Can you provide a link to your translation of Daniel 12:1
From the online Septuagint
Daniel 12:1 And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people:

CherubRam
November 29th, 2015, 06:30 AM
Hi Gurucam, nice to meet you, if one is going to use quotes from Yeshua, (Jesus) to support what he or she says and believes, (which I think is excellently awesome and whole-heartedly agree with!) then the same must certainly be willing to accept everything the Master says, that is, everything written that is attributed to him, correct? Let's not be picky and choosy here, right? Alrighty then, friend, I'm quite sure you must agree or you would not be quoting from his words: so how then do you understand the following and apply it to yourself?

Matthew 15:21-28 KJV
21. Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22. And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

As one may clearly see in the above passage worship was not the point. However I would particularly like to know your understanding of this clear emphatic statement which was never altered, rescinded, expounded, or even explained; it simply is what it is, and stands to this day because the words of Messiah shall not pass away:

Matthew 15:24 RSV
24. He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 NJB
24. He said in reply, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 WEY
24. "I have only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel," He replied.

So apparently then, if one is not of "the lost sheep of the house of Israel", Yeshua clearly and emphatically states that he was not sent to that person, period. How then does one become of the lost sheep of the house of Israel? or do you not agree that the above applies to you? :)

:sheep:

John 10:16
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

CherubRam
November 29th, 2015, 06:33 AM
Jew is a fairly recent addition to the English language as is the letter 'J'. The fact you are using the term Jew proves that you haven't got a clue as to what the original word in Hebrew means.
The same applies to Israel and until you know what the original words meant to the people who first heard them you will keep going around in circles.

Your OP reminds me of children playing a game of pretend and in this case you are pretending to understand something that you haven't got a clue about.

I am aware that "Jew" is a modern term for "Judean."

Gurucam
November 29th, 2015, 07:14 AM
Hi Gurucam, nice to meet you, if one is going to use quotes from Yeshua, (Jesus) to support what he or she says and believes, (which I think is excellently awesome and whole-heartedly agree with!) then the same must certainly be willing to accept everything the Master says, that is, everything written that is attributed to him, correct?

Matthew 15:24 RSV
24. He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 NJB
24. He said in reply, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel."

Matthew 15:24 WEY
24. "I have only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel," He replied.

So apparently then, if one is not of "the lost sheep of the house of Israel", Yeshua clearly and emphatically states that he was not sent to that person, period. How then does one become of the lost sheep of the house of Israel? or do you not agree that the above applies to you? :)

:sheep:

:idea: :idea: Hi to you also.

I agree with you. Also I agree with the KJV N.T.verses which you quoted.

The critical question is: Who are "the lost sheep of the house of Israel"?

It absolutely important to discern exactly who are: "the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

The Lord confirmed:

Galatians: 3 KJV N.T.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
The 'house of Israel' describes people who are under the law. They were under the curse of the law.

The Lord came to redeem them from the curse of the law.

Therefore "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" are those who were under the law, sin and punishment in hell. They are the lost because they were under the law, sin and punishment in hell and there is no salvation and deliverance under that system. They all fall short of the Glory of God. Therefore they are all lost sheep.

Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
The Lord came to redeem them by introducing them to righteousness of God that is without the law, sin and punishment in hell. This is through His Spirit (the New Covenant).

Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
21 But now (since 2000 odd years ago) the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans: 4 KJV N.T.
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

2 Corinthians: 3 KJV N.T.
17 Now (since 2000 odd years ago) the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Acts: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
1 There is therefore now (since 2000 odd years ago) no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The Lord came to justify the transgression of the Ten Commandments.

"The lost sheep of the house of Israel" are not those were not of the house of Israel. Quite to the contrary. The exact opposite is correct.

"The lost sheep of the house of Israel" were and continue to be all people in Israel. They have denounced the Lord and His New Covenant which is "righteousness of God that is without the law".

They denied, persecuted, tortured, blasphemed and aided the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus because he sought to introduce them and others to "righteousness of God that is without the law".

The house of Israel wanted to and continued to remain under the law, sin and punishment in hell . . . under which all of them sin and fall short of the glory of God. They wanted to and did stay under the curse of the law, sin and punishment in hell. This made them all "lost sheep of the house of Israel". They (Israel) were all the lost sheep of Israel and they all remained the lost sheep of Israel.

:idea: :idea: Please quote the verse in the KJV N.T. where the word, "Yeshua" appears?

:idea: :idea: You are well advise to drop the law, sin and punishment in hell and embrace "righteousness of God that is without the law" before it is too late and you are sent to hell for transgression of the law.

Romans: 3 KJV N.T.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Only people of Israel and similar others who esteem the law, inevitably and invariably fall short of the Glory of God and goes to hell, with Satan.

Clete
November 29th, 2015, 07:27 AM
I am aware that "Jew" is a modern term for "Judean."

Is this basically your whole point here? I don't get it.

All this energy spent on saying what Paul stated in one verse, one sentence. What's the bid deal?

Truster
November 29th, 2015, 07:36 AM
I am aware that "Jew" is a modern term for "Judean."

Neither of which conveys what the original words conveyed. Names and titles in Hebrew need to be transliterated and not translated as there were no comparative words in any target language to translate the originals into.

I don't expect you to understand this, but it is a fact.

daqq
November 29th, 2015, 07:41 AM
Can you provide a link to your translation of Daniel 12:1
From the online Septuagint
Daniel 12:1 And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people:

You have to remember that the Septuagint now has Theodotion in the place of the Old Greek when it comes to the book of Daniel. For instance when you read Daniel in the Brenton English Translation of the Septuagint it is not a translation of the Old Greek but of the Theodotion version.

Daniel 12:1 LXX Septuagint (Old Greek)
12:1 και κατα την ωραν εκεινην παρελευσεται μιχαηλ ο αγγελος ο μεγας ο εστηκως επι τους υιους του λαου σου εκεινη η ημερα θλιψεως οια ουκ εγενηθη αφ' ου εγενηθησαν εως της ημερας εκεινης και εν εκεινη τη ημερα υψωθησεται πας ο λαος ος αν ευρεθη εγγεγραμμενος εν τω βιβλιω
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/27_012.htm
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/index.htm

The bold highlighted word is "pareleusetai", (a form of "parerchomai", to come near/pass by or to come up aside/beside) which is much more often rendered "pass away" but can also mean "come near"/"pass by", (which would make absoutley no sense in this context because it is what causes the great time of trouble). The same exact form is employed by the author of Matthew in the following statement from Yeshua:

Matthew 24:35 Transliterated
35. Ho ouranos kai he ge pareleusetai, hoi de logoimou ou-me parelthosin.
35. The heaven and the earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/24-35.htm

Interplanner
November 29th, 2015, 08:21 AM
God now dealing with another 'nation' (Mt 21) which is an intriguing play on the term 'ethnos'. God does not favor any of the existing 'ethnos' but the people in his Gospel's mission are one!

OCTOBER23
November 29th, 2015, 08:44 AM
1 ¶ What advantage then hath the Jew?

Romans 3:2 Much every way: because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

28 he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart,

in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:

for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;

to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,

of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Interplanner
November 29th, 2015, 08:55 AM
Yes v28 meshes nicely with Mt 21 on 'ethnos.'

daqq
November 29th, 2015, 09:06 AM
Hi to you also.

I agree with you. Also I agree with the KJV N.T.verses which you quoted.

The critical question is: Who are "the lost sheep of the house of Israel"?

It absolutely important to discern exactly who are: "the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

The Lord confirmed:

The 'house of Israel' describes people who are under the law. They were under the curse of the law.

The Lord came to redeem them from the curse of the law.

Therefore "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" are those who were under the law, sin and punishment in hell. They are the lost because they were under the law, sin and punishment in hell and there is no salvation and deliverance under that system.

The Lord came to redeem them by introducing them to righteousness of God that is without the law, sin and punishment in hell. This is through His Spirit (the New Covenant).




The Lord came to justify the transgression of the Ten Commandments.

"The lost sheep of the house of Israel" are not those were not of the house of Israel. Quite to the contrary. The exact opposite is correct.

"The lost sheep of the house of Israel" were and continue to be all people in Israel. They have denounced the Lord and His New Covenant which is "righteousness of God that is without the law".

They denied, persecuted, tortured, blasphemed and aided the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus because he sought to introduce them and others to "righteousness of God that is without the law".

The house of Israel wanted to and continued to remain under the law, sin and punishment in hell . . . under which all sin and fall short of the glory of God. They wanted to and did stay under the curse of the law, sin and punishment in hell. This made them all "lost sheep of the house of Israel". They (Israel) were all the lost sheep of Israel and they all remained the lost sheep of Israel.


You asked that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T. Please be forthright.

Please quote the verse in the KJV N.T. where the word, "Yeshua" appears?



You are well advise to drop the law, sin and punishment in hell and embrace "righteousness of God that is without the law" before it is too late and you are sent to hell for transgression of the law.

Only people of Israel and similar others who esteem the law, goes to hell, with Satan.

Ah, yes, the smell of fire and brimstone judgment in the morning, how can anyone do without it? But when and where did I ask "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."?? I do not recall ever suggesting any such thing, in fact, did you not see the three other translations I quoted from the same passage? As for being "under the law" have you ever actually been "under" the law? I can surely tell that you have not so please yourself also be forthright. :crackup:

You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah, (is it okay with you if I say Messiah instead of Christ? or will that send me plummeting into the gaping jaws of hell also?). If you would only have continued reading in that passage you would see that every child, though he or she be master of all, is "under tutors and governors" until the Bar Mitzvah, (the time appointed of the Father) when the child becomes a son:

Here is the King Jimmy and his court version for your viewing pleasure:

Galatians 3:24-29 KJV
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Galatians 4:1-2 KJV
1. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2. But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Yes, tutors and governors: Torah, Prophets, Writings, (kings, i.e. David, Psalms). If your time appointed of the Father has not yet come then neither has your final immersion my hell fire friend, (because before you can recieve the Promise you must first do the will of God, Hebrews 10:36 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 KJV).

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Ah yes, those hasty Chaldeans that march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwelling places that are not their own, (for the man is the house). They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity proceeds of themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards and more fierce than the evening wolves: their horsemen spread themselves, and come from far, they fly as the eagle hasting to devour the prey. They come all for violence: their faces sup up as the east wind as they gather the captivity as the sand. They scoff at kings such as yourself, O king, and the princes they scorn: they shall deride every one of your strong holds, O king. Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that the one who reads it may run. For the vision is yet for the appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie; though it tarry, wait for it, for it will surely come, and when it does it will not tarry: for the Master has said to that one already, for a sign, "What you do, do quickly", (John 13:27) and he knows that he has but a short time. In the End of that day we shall see who is a joint-heir and son having put on Messiah by faith, (if indeed you overcome in your appointed time). :chuckle:

Interplanner
November 29th, 2015, 09:12 AM
Ah, yes, the smell of fire and brimstone judgment in the morning, how can anyone do without it? But when and where did I ask "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."?? I do not recall ever suggesting any such thing, in fact, did you not see the three other translations I quoted from the same passage? As for being "under the law" have you ever actually been "under" the law? I can surely tell that you have not so please yourself also be forthright. :crackup:

You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah, (is it okay with you if I say Messiah instead of Christ? or will that send me plummeting into the gaping jaws of hell also?). If you would only have continued reading in that passage you would see that every child, though he or she be master of all, is "under tutors and governors" until the Bar Mitzvah, (the time appointed of the Father) when the child becomes a son:

Here is the King Jimmy and his court version for your viewing pleasure:

Galatians 3:24-29 KJV
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Galatians 4:1-2 KJV
1. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2. But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Yes, tutors and governors: Torah, Prophets, Writings, (kings, i.e. David, Psalms). If your time appointed of the Father has not yet come then neither has your final immersion my hell fire friend, (because before you can recieve the Promise you must first do the will of God, Hebrews 10:36 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 KJV).

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Ah yes, those hasty Chaldeans that march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwelling places that are not their own, (for the man is the house). They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity proceeds of themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards and more fierce than the evening wolves: their horsemen spread themselves, and come from far, they fly as the eagle hasting to devour the prey. They come all for violence: their faces sup up as the east wind as they gather the captivity as the sand. They scoff at kings such as yourself, O king, and the princes they scorn: they shall deride every one of your strong holds, O king. Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that the one who reads it may run. For the vision is yet for the appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie; though it tarry, wait for it, for it will surely come, and when it does it will not tarry: for the Master has said to that one already, for a sign, "What you do, do quickly", (John 13:27) and he knows that he has but a short time. In the End of that day we shall see who is a joint-heir and son having put on Messiah by faith, (if indeed you overcome in your appointed time). :chuckle:


In one line, what is your final paragraph about?

daqq
November 29th, 2015, 09:31 AM
In one line, what is your final paragraph about?

Is it not you Inter who was always touting Acts 13 in the "other" forum? You already know the drill or at least I know this was already said to you before because it was me who said it to you. Do you not know that your body is the house-temple of God and you are no more your own? This therefore applies to anyone who defiles the temple of God:

Acts 13:40-41 KJV
40. Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41. Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you [Habakkuk 1:5].

Context, context, context! (Habakkuk 1 & 2) and this was said in Antioch Pisidia: it applies to everyone here. Hopefully you do not need to be told what things can defile you, (see the same passage I started with in the discussion with Gurucam, Matthew 15:18-20). :crackup:

CherubRam
November 29th, 2015, 09:56 AM
The term Jew applied to all peoples of the world who worshiped the God of Abraham. The mission of the faith has always been to convert the nations to the faith.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

A Jew is a convert to Judaism, and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

CherubRam
November 29th, 2015, 10:03 AM
The word “Jew” has become a negative connotation, which has led most people to conclude that it should not be utilized in polite conversation.
However, it is very interesting to note that it is the fulfillment of Isaiah 65:15, and even more interesting is the fact that no one is trying to fulfill that verse.


Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Isaiah 65:15
You will leave your name for my chosen ones to use in their curses; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Negative connotations for the word “Jew.”
Jew.
Noun:
1. Someone of the Jewish persuasion.
2. A derogatory term for someone who is dishonest, miserly or generally regarded as not being a gentleman.

Verb:
1. To cheat, defraud, dishonest, demanding, liar, thief, sneaky.
2. To expend an excessive amount of time and effort to negotiate the lowest price for something when an ordinary person would be ashamed to do so.
3. An association with those who killed the Messiah. yehu'di or yehu'diy for Jew was used during the life of Jeremiah.

The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons.

For about two thousand years the word Jew has been used in a negative way.

Gurucam
November 29th, 2015, 11:59 AM
Ah, yes, the smell of fire and brimstone judgment in the morning, how can anyone do without it? But when and where did I ask "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."?? I do not recall ever suggesting any such thing, in fact, did you not see the three other translations I quoted from the same passage? As for being "under the law" have you ever actually been "under" the law? I can surely tell that you have not so please yourself also be forthright. :crackup:

You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah, (is it okay with you if I say Messiah instead of Christ? or will that send me plummeting into the gaping jaws of hell also?). If you would only have continued reading in that passage you would see that every child, though he or she be master of all, is "under tutors and governors" until the Bar Mitzvah, (the time appointed of the Father) when the child becomes a son:

Here is the King Jimmy and his court version for your viewing pleasure:

Galatians 3:24-29 KJV
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Galatians 4:1-2 KJV
1. Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
2. But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Yes, tutors and governors: Torah, Prophets, Writings, (kings, i.e. David, Psalms). If your time appointed of the Father has not yet come then neither has your final immersion my hell fire friend, (because before you can recieve the Promise you must first do the will of God, Hebrews 10:36 KJV, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-4 KJV).

Hebrews 10:35-39 KJV
35. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
38. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Ah yes, those hasty Chaldeans that march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwelling places that are not their own, (for the man is the house). They are terrible and dreadful: their judgment and their dignity proceeds of themselves. Their horses are swifter than leopards and more fierce than the evening wolves: their horsemen spread themselves, and come from far, they fly as the eagle hasting to devour the prey. They come all for violence: their faces sup up as the east wind as they gather the captivity as the sand. They scoff at kings such as yourself, O king, and the princes they scorn: they shall deride every one of your strong holds, O king. Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that the one who reads it may run. For the vision is yet for the appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie; though it tarry, wait for it, for it will surely come, and when it does it will not tarry: for the Master has said to that one already, for a sign, "What you do, do quickly", (John 13:27) and he knows that he has but a short time. In the End of that day we shall see who is a joint-heir and son having put on Messiah by faith, (if indeed you overcome in your appointed time). :chuckle:

1.) You did not say: "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."??

Sorry, I corrected that post a while back.

2.) You said: 'You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah,'

Paul said no such thing.


Galatians 3 KJV N.T.
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

'bring one onto Christ' is a state, not a messiah. This to be 'in Christ' or to be a Christian. This is to be a child of God.

Galatians: 3 KJV N.T.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Also being 'justified by faith' is a justification not a messiah.

This justification is confirmed simply and clearly in the following:

Acts: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
The entire revelation is about throwing away the law when one becomes a Christian.

Before we go further, are we good with the above? Are we in agreement with the few things stated in this post?

Interplanner
November 29th, 2015, 12:02 PM
You did not say: "that we stick to revelations in the KJV N.T."??

Sorry, I corrected that post a while back.

You said: 'You apparently missed the part where Paul tells you that the Law is your "schoolmaster" to lead you to Messiah,'

Paul said no such thing.


Are you saying Gal 3:23--4:7 does not exist or is not 'accepted'? Even Hebrews says it is about elementary things that were 'types' or 'shadows' not the reality itself.

Gurucam
November 29th, 2015, 04:20 PM
Are you saying Gal 3:23--4:7 does not exist or is not 'accepted'? Even Hebrews says it is about elementary things that were 'types' or 'shadows' not the reality itself.

All verses in the KJV N.T. are literally correct and valid.

However, in order to get a feel for your forthrightness, I asked (in post # 89) that you responded to the following rather simple and straight forward question:

I have transferred this post to my thread.

click here:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4534169#post4534169

daqq
November 30th, 2015, 04:11 AM
All verses in the KJV N.T. are literally correct and valid.

However, in order to get a feel for your forthrightness, I asked (in post # 89) that you responded to the following rather simple and straight forward question:

I have transferred this post to my thread.

click here:

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4534169#post4534169



και κατεβησαν προς αυτον και προσηυξατο ελισαιε προς κυριον και ειπεν παταξον δη τουτο το εθνος αορασια και επαταξεν αυτους αορασια κατα το ρημα ελισαιε :)

Ben Masada
December 1st, 2015, 04:20 PM
The term Jew applied to all peoples of the world who worshiped the God of Abraham. The mission of the faith has always been to convert the nations to the faith.

The word "Jew" was a nickname assigned by the Babylonians to anyone who either lived in or came from the area of Judea.

A Jew is a convert to Judaism, and the Hebrews are an ethnic group of people.

Contrary to popular belief, Jews are not a race, but an assembly of people. Hebrews are a race.

A Hebrew may or may not be a Jew.

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city, wherever the edict of the king went, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Zechariah 11:10
Then I took my staff called Favor and broke it, revoking the covenant I had made with all the nations.

Read post #96

RBBI
December 1st, 2015, 04:22 PM
I like that....

CherubRam
December 2nd, 2015, 07:38 AM
Many Jews are so puffed up with pride that they can not see beyond their arrogance.

Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city to which the edict of the king came, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Ben Masada
December 2nd, 2015, 11:23 AM
The word “Jew” has become a negative connotation, which has led most people to conclude that it should not be utilized in polite conversation. However, it is very interesting to note that it is the fulfillment of Isaiah 65:15, and even more interesting is the fact that no one is trying to fulfill that verse.

Isaiah 65:15 You will leave your name to my chosen ones as a curse; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Isaiah 65:15 You will leave your name for my chosen ones to use in their curses; the Sovereign LORD will put you to death, but to his servants he will give another name.

Negative connotations for the word “Jew.”
Jew.Noun:
1. Someone of the Jewish persuasion.
2. A derogatory term for someone who is dishonest, miserly or generally regarded as not being a gentleman.

Verb:
1. To cheat, defraud, dishonest, demanding, liar, thief, sneaky.
2. To expend an excessive amount of time and effort to negotiate the lowest price for something when an ordinary person would be ashamed to do so.
3. An association with those who killed the Messiah. yehu'di or yehu'diy for Jew was used during the life of Jeremiah.

The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons.

For about two thousand years the word Jew has been used in a negative way.

And here is the reason for all of the above:

THE ESSAY OF MARK TWAIN ABOUT THE JEWS

"If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of star dust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way.

Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk.

His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and abstruse learning are also way out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers.

He has made a marvelous fight in the world, in all the ages; and has done it with his hands tied behind him. He could be vain of himself, and be excused for it.

The Egyptian, the Babylonian, and the Persian rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, then faded to dream-stuff and passed away; the Greek and the Roman followed suit, and made a vast noise, and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time, but it has burned out, and they sit either in twilight now, or have vanished.

The Jew saw them all, beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew; all other forces pass, but he remains. What is the secret of his immortality?

Mark Twain

Ben Masada
December 2nd, 2015, 11:33 AM
I like that....

I knew you would. Now, read post #96 and see if you still like that.

RBBI
December 2nd, 2015, 11:47 AM
Maybe it's me, but I considered Mark Twain's comments to be complementary. :confused:

Elia
December 11th, 2015, 04:09 AM
[SIZE="4"]
Esther 8:17
In every province and in every city to which the edict of the king came, there was joy and gladness among the Jews, with feasting and celebrating. And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

Bs"d

You got a problem with that?



"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of [B]Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.".
Micah 4:5

Crucible
December 11th, 2015, 04:29 AM
Esther 8:17
[...]And many people of other nationalities became Jews because fear of the Jews had seized them.

http://www.medievalages.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/teutonic-knights-crusades.jpg

http://blog.drwile.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/inquisition.jpg

:think:

Totton Linnet
December 11th, 2015, 04:45 AM
You must distinguish between spiritual Israel and ethnic Israel, the church, which includes Abe, Jake and Ike as well as the NT church, and the nation of Israel or natural Israel which are the seed of Abraham,

Spiritual Israel inherit the Kingdom of heaven, and howsoever many of the Gentiles God has predestined, natural Israel will rule on earth and with them the meek of the earth.

Heaven and earth will be united in that day. This says Paul is God's plan for the fullness of time...a term for the Millennium reign

CherubRam
April 20th, 2016, 02:12 AM
A bump for Ben.

Ben Masada
April 20th, 2016, 08:51 AM
You must distinguish between spiritual Israel and ethnic Israel, the church, which includes Abe, Jake and Ike as well as the NT church, and the nation of Israel or natural Israel which are the seed of Abraham,

Spiritual Israel inherit the Kingdom of heaven, and howsoever many of the Gentiles God has predestined, natural Israel will rule on earth and with them the meek of the earth.

Heaven and earth will be united in that day. This says Paul is God's plan for the fullness of time...a term for the Millennium reign

Okay Linnet, if you believe that we all are of the seed of Abraham, let's live according to being the seed of Abraham and let all others leave in peace too. Every time Christians seek to convert others, it only proves that we are not all of the seed of Abraham.

Ben Masada
April 20th, 2016, 09:05 AM
Maybe it's me, but I considered Mark Twain's comments to be complementary. :confused:

Complementary to what? Was he dishonest as the Jews are concerned? For one, I don't see any reason for patronizing. The man was not even a Jew himself.

Totton Linnet
April 20th, 2016, 09:20 AM
Okay Linnet, if you believe that we all are of the seed of Abraham, let's live according to being the seed of Abraham and let all others leave in peace too. Every time Christians seek to convert others, it only proves that we are not all of the seed of Abraham.

I'm not sure how well you understand the different theological streams of orthodox Christianity, I cannot convert a fly, I can only announce the good news, the good news itself is what saves [converts] whether Jew or Gentile. The good news has always been to the Jews first and to us second. We are saved to the Jewish kingdom/commonwealth. The heavenly portion.

Ben Masada
April 20th, 2016, 09:37 AM
I'm not sure how well you understand the different theological streams of orthodox Christianity, I cannot convert a fly, I can only announce the good news, the good news itself is what saves [converts] whether Jew or Gentile. The good news has always been to the Jews first and to us second. We are saved to the Jewish kingdom/commonwealth. The heavenly portion.

The only way to find out is to try me. Since the day I started reading the NT I haven't found too big of a struggle to understand most of the divergences between Christians and us and, between Christians and Christians as their Theological discrepancies are concerned.

Totton Linnet
April 20th, 2016, 12:24 PM
Despite all the seemingly numberless divergencies orthodoxy boils down to just 2 streams

Grace through faith

Faith and works

CherubRam
April 25th, 2016, 11:30 AM
Bump. Read post #1. Please.

CherubRam
January 21st, 2017, 08:05 PM
Another Bump for anyone who has not read it.

meshak
January 21st, 2017, 08:18 PM
Excellent OP, CherubRam.

thank you.

CherubRam
January 21st, 2017, 08:21 PM
Excellent OP, CherubRam.

thank you.

Thank you Meshak.

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
January 21st, 2017, 08:37 PM
Most here are flesh Jew lovers , and flesh church lovers, and true Bride despisers.

They do not care what you write of the truth.(but some visitors will)
LA

You make Zionism sound so naughty!

#Silly LA

# I have some scriptures you can despise!

Lazy afternoon
January 21st, 2017, 10:09 PM
You make Zionism sound so naughty!

#Silly LA

# I have some scriptures you can despise!

Why did you not deal with the scriptures you twisted?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud42vVi8gWA

Lazy afternoon
January 21st, 2017, 10:28 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEIA7tS98IU

Lazy afternoon
January 21st, 2017, 10:30 PM
Pro 1:2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
Pro 1:3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
Pro 1:4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
Pro 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
Pro 1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUppu2OHVTY

CherubRam
January 23rd, 2017, 08:32 PM
Pro 1:2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
Pro 1:3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
Pro 1:4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
Pro 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
Pro 1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUppu2OHVTY

I agree with this: "My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile."

Evil.Eye.<(I)>
January 23rd, 2017, 10:01 PM
Why did you not deal with the scriptures you twisted?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud42vVi8gWA

LA if your theology wasn't so twisted... maybe everyone else wouldn't seem... "so" twisted.

meshak
January 23rd, 2017, 10:10 PM
I agree with this: "My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile."

...gather up both gentiles and Jews to become one with one with God and Jesus.

CherubRam
January 23rd, 2017, 10:12 PM
...gentiles and Jews.
Yes. One Shepherd and one flock.

CherubRam
January 23rd, 2017, 10:13 PM
...gentiles and Jews.
More correctly, Hebrews and Gentiles.

Lazy afternoon
January 26th, 2017, 05:49 PM
I agree with this: "My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile."

The opponents of this, ignore this scripture below, yet use it to support their own doctrine--

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Come into what?-

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved:

Backed up by Paul's writings--

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

LA

CherubRam
January 26th, 2017, 07:59 PM
OK. I read your post L.A. Don't know what else to say.