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chrysostom
July 26th, 2014, 06:52 AM
new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
it has the river running through it 22:1 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A1&version=KJV)
it has three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

Nang
July 26th, 2014, 09:16 AM
New Jerusalem is revealed in Galatians 4:22-31.

It is the invisible city of God in which all in Christ will be resurrected to live in His glory.

Welcome back . . Sorry for your absence.

chrysostom
July 26th, 2014, 11:18 AM
New Jerusalem is revealed in Galatians 4:22-31.

It is the invisible city of God in which all in Christ will be resurrected to live in His glory.

Welcome back . . Sorry for your absence.

thank you

False Prophet
July 26th, 2014, 12:04 PM
John saw a new heaven and a new earth, then he saw the new Jerusalem. It sounds like your new something which seems to be the topic. New York hand an old York in the old world. While New York grew up in the new world. I think its original name was New Ansterdam, but it was changed to New York.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more Rev 21:1

The old earth passes away with the old heaven, so we see a new heaven and a new earth come into existence. How simple is that? I guess we like to complicate things and bring our own wild interpretations into the picture.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: 4and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. 5And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new Rev 21

The new Jerusalem comes down out of heaven, so the old Jerusalem is no more. Just like the old heaven and the old earth passes away, the old Jerusalem passes away; so the new Jerusalem takes its place. The new Jerusalem is made ready like a bride for her husband. I don't see the bride of Christ here. I see a real Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.

chrysostom
July 26th, 2014, 12:08 PM
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven

so why are they trying to put it back in heaven?

chrysostom
July 29th, 2014, 03:46 AM
three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)
and
a river running through it 22:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A2&version=KJV)

map of new jerusalem (http://www.rom.geographie.uni-muenchen.de/publications/ArchStadtRomHaeuberMapA.jpg)

Letsargue
July 29th, 2014, 04:39 PM
three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)
and
a river running through it 22:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A2&version=KJV)

map of new jerusalem (http://www.rom.geographie.uni-muenchen.de/publications/ArchStadtRomHaeuberMapA.jpg)


OOOPPPSSSS!!!!

((( Revelation 23:16 KJV ))) -- 16- "And (((( The City lieth - "FOURSQUARE" )))), and (( the length is as large as the breadth )): and (( he measured the city with the reed )), (((Twelve thousand furlongs ))). ((( The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal )))". --//-----

Wouldn't that be (( JUST )) 1,500 Miles Deep, - Wide, - Long, --- AND - "HIGH"??? --- 1,500 miles in all (( FOUR )) directions???

((( Ephesians 3:18 KJV ))) -- 18- "May be (( able to comprehend )) ( with all saints ) what is the (( Breadth, and Length, and Depth, AND -- "HEIGHT". --//-----

What City are you going to??

Paul, David -- 072914

Letsargue
July 29th, 2014, 06:10 PM
OOOPPPSSSS!!!!

((( Revelation 23:16 KJV ))) -- 16- "And (((( The City lieth - "FOURSQUARE" )))), and (( the length is as large as the breadth )): and (( he measured the city with the reed )), (((Twelve thousand furlongs ))). ((( The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal )))". --//-----

Wouldn't that be (( JUST )) 1,500 Miles Deep, - Wide, - Long, --- AND - "HIGH"??? --- 1,500 miles in all (( FOUR )) directions???

((( Ephesians 3:18 KJV ))) -- 18- "May be (( able to comprehend )) ( with all saints ) what is the (( Breadth, and Length, and Depth, AND -- "HEIGHT". --//-----

What City are you ~"christians going to??

Paul, David -- 072914


OOOHHH!! - Just in case you smarter than God people have not kept up with the Truth, -- we're talking about the Fourth Dimension HERE, -- NOT THERE!!

That's the Fourth Jerusalem!!!

Paul, David -- 072914

Nang
July 29th, 2014, 06:20 PM
OOOPPPSSSS!!!!

((( Revelation 23:16 KJV ))) -- 16- "And (((( The City lieth - "FOURSQUARE" )))), and (( the length is as large as the breadth )): and (( he measured the city with the reed )), (((Twelve thousand furlongs ))). ((( The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal )))". --//-----

Wouldn't that be (( JUST )) 1,500 Miles Deep, - Wide, - Long, --- AND - "HIGH"??? --- 1,500 miles in all (( FOUR )) directions???

((( Ephesians 3:18 KJV ))) -- 18- "May be (( able to comprehend )) ( with all saints ) what is the (( Breadth, and Length, and Depth, AND -- "HEIGHT". --//-----

What City are you going to??

Paul, David -- 072914


I have faith I will be resurrected to the same city promised to Abraham (Hebrews 11:10) and prepared for him by God. (Hebrews 11:16)

In fact, I eagerly anticipate sitting across a table and sharing a meal with him in the kingdom of heaven, soon. Matthew 8:11

Letsargue
July 29th, 2014, 06:27 PM
new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
it has the river running through it 22:1 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A1&version=KJV)
it has three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)


Looks like you rejected the Body of Christ, - Christ's Family - the (( House of God )).
((( John 7:38 KJV ))) -- 38- "He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, ((( Out of His Belly shall flow Rivers of Living Water" ))). --//----- Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John!!

Paul, David -- 072914

Letsargue
July 29th, 2014, 06:43 PM
I have faith I will be resurrected to the same city promised to Abraham (Hebrews 11:10) and prepared for him by God. (Hebrews 11:16)

In fact, I eagerly anticipate sitting across a table and sharing a meal with him in the kingdom of heaven, soon. Matthew 8:11


That was the Third Jerusalem. --- ((( Revelation 21:2 KJV ))) -- 2- "And I John saw the Holy City, New Jerusalem, (((( coming down "From God" OUT of Heaven ))), prepared as a bride adorned for Her Husband". --//----- NOW WHAT??? -- That can't be any other time than AD70!! -- The Marriage of the Lamb. - The Head Joining to the Body -- of Christ. -- The Body being "RECEIVED" by the Head / Christ!!

Paul, David -- 072914

Nang
July 29th, 2014, 06:51 PM
That was the Third Jerusalem. --- ((( Revelation 21:2 KJV ))) -- 2- "And I John saw the Holy City, New Jerusalem, (((( coming down "From God" OUT of Heaven ))), prepared as a bride adorned for Her Husband". --//----- NOW WHAT??? -- That can't be any other time than AD70!! -- The Marriage of the Lamb. - The Head Joining to the Body -- of Christ. -- The Body being "RECEIVED" by the Head / Christ!!

Paul, David -- 072914

I have never heard of a "third Jerusalem" before.

My hope of everlasting life of glory, is centered in the promise of the spiritual and "new Jerusalem " to which Jesus Christ has provided me access, through belief in HIM.

Letsargue
July 30th, 2014, 05:44 AM
I have never heard of a "third Jerusalem" before.

My hope of everlasting life of glory, is centered in the promise of the spiritual and "new Jerusalem " to which Jesus Christ has provided me access, through belief in HIM.


False "Hope" is nothing gained!!! - I'm showing You Him Here, but none of you can believe in HIM!!!

Read this very slowly, and several times, To See IT!! ((( IF ))) You have read the Bible several Times, you "WILL" see it!!!! -- No Blind fool can see anything!!

To say the "Third Jerusalem" - is the same thing as saying the "Third Heaven". - Jerusalem ( "Place of Peace" ), was always the "Place" of the Temple of God which IS THE - Carnal Heaven, - not made Spiritual until - "IT" - DIED. ---- Jesus, on His (( "RETURN" )) in AD70, ((( HE SLEW THE TEMPLE ))) - (( THERE Symbolizing Jesus GIVING HIS OWN SELF ))!!! -- The TEMPLE - "REPRESENTED" JESUS!! --- Jesus was pierced in his right side, the same as the Brook Cedron flowed from the right side of both, the - "TEMPLE, and the CITY", into the Garden ( Heaven ), itself, - "standing For the Gospel" - (( Hebrews 9:24 KJV )) --/--

"Jerusalem" WAS Placed - IN THE Same "PLACE" / "PREPARED" by God "from the foundation of the World", --- ( At the same "PLACE" of Garden of Eden ).
At the Entrance of the Garden, - The Flaming Sword that turned every "WAY" was placed, - "and stood for the Crucifixion" of Jesus with the Two Thieves; - IN THE SAME "PLACE" Prepared!!!
That's enough!!

BOY, -- IF I'm Wrong!! - You smart people - surely CAN Prove me Wrong HERE!!!!

Remember, -- We will see each other Face to Face - AT YOUR Departing of the Flesh!!

Paul, David -- 073014

chrysostom
July 30th, 2014, 11:59 AM
whoa!
we are not talking about the third jerusalem
we are talking about the new jerusalem that came down from heaven
so
we should be able to find it

we should also be able to find the Church He built on a rock

they may be in the same place

chrysostom
August 6th, 2014, 03:08 AM
here is what they say about

New Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jerusalem#Catholicism)

chrysostom
August 19th, 2014, 05:43 AM
new jerusalem

john the baptist the voice in the wilderness john 1:23 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=john+1%3A23&version=KJV)
the woman fled into the wilderness rev 12:6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rev+12%3A6&version=KJV)
peter went to babylon 1peter5:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1peter5%3A13&version=KJV)
constantine moves the capital from rome to new rome, constantinople
where
it could be defended

we are talking about survival

john the baptist would not have lasted long in jerusalem
the Church would not have lasted long in jerusalem
the Church would not have lasted long in rome
if
it were not for new rome, constantinople
which soon became the target of islam
jerusalem is a very special place
but
like the churches in asia minor
not much is going to survive there
not like the dome of the rock

for one thousand years new rome protected new jerusalem

chrysostom
September 1st, 2014, 05:42 AM
Revelation 3:12 (KJV)
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 21:22 (KJV)
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.


so there is no temple
how about a church?

be a part of it
if
you overcometh

chrysostom
September 24th, 2014, 05:06 AM
what God has destroyed
no man can rebuild
the temple in jerusalem

what God has built
no man can destroy
His Church in rome
new jerusalem

chrysostom
October 7th, 2014, 03:37 AM
it has a river running through it
it has four gates in each direction

chrysostom
October 24th, 2014, 03:28 AM
The Book of Ezekiel contains the first record of the New Jerusalem. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jerusalem)

Ezekiel 40-48 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+40-48&version=KJV)

chrysostom
November 12th, 2014, 06:44 AM
His Church built on a rock is in new jerusalem

JosephR
November 12th, 2014, 07:01 AM
do you really believe this chys?

chrysostom
November 12th, 2014, 07:07 AM
do you really believe this chys?

yes

JosephR
November 12th, 2014, 07:08 AM
yes

some say it was meant as this....


Thou art Simon Peter, dense as a rock, and you will turn my ministry and teaching into a religion.

:)

chrysostom
November 12th, 2014, 07:13 AM
we know who the dense ones are

chrysostom
May 30th, 2015, 02:28 PM
no one can believe this one

chrysostom
June 5th, 2015, 10:22 AM
rome

chrysostom
June 23rd, 2015, 04:14 AM
Jesus built His church in new jerusalem

SaulToPaul
June 23rd, 2015, 05:58 AM
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem


:chuckle:

chrysostom
October 11th, 2015, 05:41 AM
:chuckle:

another great post by stp

RBBI
October 11th, 2015, 06:41 AM
You do realize that New Jerusalem is COMING DOWN, right? Rome is Rome, Jerusalem is Jerusalem until there's a NEW one, and it's NOT Rome. Peace

patrick jane
October 11th, 2015, 06:59 AM
another great post by stp

20444

20445

20446

20447

Interplanner
October 11th, 2015, 09:10 AM
20444

20445

20446

20447



The literal visuals completely miss what is going on. The 'city' is our mother, it is all the believers who are now in heaven and of course Christ. Yet we feel 'close' to it, as Paul says in Gal 4, simply by his calling it our mother. And Heb 12. It is always just above, or hovering, until the NHNE.

It is close in another way. When a person no longer pays attention to a divisive religious issue in his relations with other people, when 'there is neither circumcision nor uncircumcision,' there is a new creation. Gal 6. That is also a way to feel close to the New Jerusalem.

The last and least useful approach to the Rev is visual. There is far too much history and background that it is based on to know first.

patrick jane
October 11th, 2015, 09:27 AM
The literal visuals completely miss what is going on. The 'city' is our mother, it is all the believers who are now in heaven and of course Christ. Yet we feel 'close' to it, as Paul says in Gal 4, simply by his calling it our mother. And Heb 12. It is always just above, or hovering, until the NHNE.

It is close in another way. When a person no longer pays attention to a divisive religious issue in his relations with other people, when 'there is neither circumcision nor uncircumcision,' there is a new creation. Gal 6. That is also a way to feel close to the New Jerusalem.

The last and least useful approach to the Rev is visual. There is far too much history and background that it is based on to know first.



Galatians 4:26 KJV -

patrick jane
October 11th, 2015, 09:29 AM
Revelation 21:2 KJV -

Interplanner
October 11th, 2015, 12:51 PM
Revelation 21:2 KJV -



Those two are good basic passages to know. What are you saying about them?

daqq
October 11th, 2015, 01:57 PM
Jerusalem of Above is our mother COVENANT.
Why does everyone seem to miss that part of what Paul states?

Galatians 4:24-26
24. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Hagar, [spiritual Egypt and Sodom, Revelation 11:8].
25. For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is our mother [covenant].

The women are the cities are the covenants:

Yerushalaim of Below - fleshly-carnal understanding of Torah - Mount Sinai
Yerushalaim of Above - Spirit of Torah (for the Law is Spirit) - Mount Horeb

chrysostom
October 30th, 2015, 04:40 AM
some are actually looking for a city to come down from heaven

SaulToPaul
October 30th, 2015, 06:40 AM
some are actually looking for a city to come down from heaven

"I go and prepare a place for you"

daqq
October 30th, 2015, 08:32 AM
"I go and prepare a place for you"

In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And whither I go you know, and the way you know.

Doesn't Paul teach us that those in Messiah Yeshua are seated in heavenly places? And Yeshua later in the same discourse from John 14 says this to the other Judas:

Judas says unto him, (not Iscariot) Master, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world? Yeshua answered and said to him, If a man loves me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 04:41 AM
rome is new jerusalem

SaulToPaul
November 12th, 2015, 07:03 AM
rome is new jerusalem

:chuckle:

chair
November 12th, 2015, 10:00 AM
new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
...

Why not call Rome "Rome" and leave Jerusalem to the Jews?

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 10:05 AM
Why not call Rome "Rome" and leave Jerusalem to the Jews?

we did
we have
it is all yours
but
we want to help you defend it
and
we know there will never be a third temple

chair
November 12th, 2015, 10:41 AM
we did
we have
it is all yours
but
we want to help you defend it
and
we know there will never be a third temple
You knew many things about us that turned out to be wrong.

chrysostom
November 12th, 2015, 10:43 AM
You knew many things about us that turned out to be wrong.

like what?

chrysostom
December 1st, 2015, 06:52 AM
new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
it has the river running through it 22:1 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A1&version=KJV)
it has three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

it is real
it is not going to literally come down from heaven

SaulToPaul
December 1st, 2015, 08:19 AM
it is real
it is not going to literally come down from heaven

John 14:2-3 (KJV)

chrysostom
December 21st, 2015, 05:09 AM
rome is new jerusalem

chair
December 21st, 2015, 07:22 AM
rome is new jerusalem

New Jerusalem
New Testament

I am sticking with the originals, thank you.

SaulToPaul
December 21st, 2015, 07:32 AM
rome is new jerusalem

:chuckle:

harebrained!

chrysostom
January 13th, 2016, 06:30 AM
New Jerusalem
New Testament

I am sticking with the originals, thank you.

thanks for stopping by

chair
January 13th, 2016, 06:33 AM
thanks for stopping by

It's been my pleasure. Glad to see that you have no better response.

Caino
January 13th, 2016, 06:34 AM
The "New Jerusalem" of Johns vision is the Mansion worlds where we will awake from the sleep of death to continue our journey inward to Paradise.

iamaberean
January 13th, 2016, 06:54 AM
new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
it has the river running through it 22:1 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A1&version=KJV)
it has three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

New Jerusalem is referring to the new covenant, just as the temple of God was in Jerusalem under the old covenant, it is now in us, as Christians.

chrysostom
February 3rd, 2016, 05:04 AM
rome has replaced jerusalem

SaulToPaul
February 3rd, 2016, 07:54 AM
rome has replaced jerusalem

:chuckle:

Ben Masada
February 3rd, 2016, 08:37 AM
The "New Jerusalem" of Johns vision is the Mansion worlds where we will awake from the sleep of death to continue our journey inward to Paradise.

Wish thinking for those who prefer to walk by faith rather then by sight. (2 Cor. 5:7) That's how Paul wished his followers walked by; faith, not sight. By sight walk those who walk with understanding. By faith, they would leave the understanding with Paul.

HisServant
February 3rd, 2016, 08:38 AM
new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
it has the river running through it 22:1 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A1&version=KJV)
it has three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

What does Rome have to do with 'Christians'.... nothing!

Ben Masada
February 3rd, 2016, 08:45 AM
rome has replaced jerusalem

So, Rome has replaced Jerusalem. Would you please explain to us of what has Rome replaced Jerusalem? If you don't know, at least don't get upset when we charge you with Replacement Theology.

Caino
February 3rd, 2016, 08:50 AM
Wish thinking for those who prefer to walk by faith rather then by sight. (2 Cor. 5:7) That's how Paul wished his followers walked by; faith, not sight. By sight walk those who walk with understanding. By faith, they would leave the understanding with Paul.

Do I need to color a picture for you Ben? I'm no fan or believer in Paul's remixed gospel about Jesus. I believe in the gospel of----> Jesus, the one the Jews were supposed to take to heart and teach the world. But you guys lost sight of the spiritual kingdom and became arrogant, segregated, quibbling theology lawyers. So, sadly, you were "un-chosen."


I have faith in the Father Just like Jesus did. I have faith in the unknown like Abraham did and many of his descendants after him.

Ben Masada
February 3rd, 2016, 08:53 AM
The "New Jerusalem" of Johns vision is the Mansion worlds where we will awake from the sleep of death to continue our journey inward to Paradise.

Delusion, some times does sound sweet.

chrysostom
February 26th, 2016, 03:46 AM
-rome is new jerusalem
-it has a river running through it
-it has three gates in every direction
-it fled into the wilderness
-the church would not have survived in jerusalem

SaulToPaul
February 26th, 2016, 08:22 AM
-rome is new jerusalem
-it has a river running through it
-it has three gates in every direction
-it fled into the wilderness
-the church would not have survived in jerusalem

:chuckle:

rako
February 26th, 2016, 09:23 PM
new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
it has the river running through it 22:1 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A1&version=KJV)
it has three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)
Did you check Orthodox commentaries on this?

chrysostom
March 24th, 2016, 06:43 AM
Did you check Orthodox commentaries on this?

I have looked at many commentaries
-and
-have yet to see an orthodox one
-can you reference one?
-my view that rome is new jerusalem is unique to my knowledge

SaulToPaul
March 24th, 2016, 07:36 AM
-my view that rome is new jerusalem is unique to my knowledge

Why doesn't the Magisterium have a view? What did Peter think was the New Jerusalem?

rako
March 24th, 2016, 10:17 AM
Chrysostom!

I recommend getting an Orthodox or Church Fathers commentary on the Bible or finding them online. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom have book by book Bible Commentaries.

This one can be great, but it's a bit hard to use for me:
http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/index.htm

I have a Russian language one and love Lopukhin's commentary but it's not in English.

rako
March 24th, 2016, 10:22 AM
http://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Lopuhin/tolkovaja_biblija_77/21
Lopukhin thinks New jerusalem will be a supernaturally created place for Christians to live in.

chrysostom
March 24th, 2016, 10:32 AM
Chrysostom!

I recommend getting an Orthodox or Church Fathers commentary on the Bible or finding them online. Augustine and St. John Chrysostom have book by book Bible Commentaries.

This one can be great, but it's a bit hard to use for me:
http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/index.htm

I have a Russian language one and love Lopukhin's commentary but it's not in English.

Revelation (Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture) (http://www.amazon.com/Revelation-Ancient-Christian-Commentary-Scripture/dp/0830814973)
-is
-just one of the books I have used in my research (http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?102616-the-apocalypse/page19&p=4590051#post4590051)

chrysostom
March 24th, 2016, 10:36 AM
http://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Lopuhin/tolkovaja_biblija_77/21
Lopukhin thinks New jerusalem will be a supernaturally created place for Christians to live in.

the temple is no more
-and
-it is reasonable to assume the church replaced it
-it is also reasonable to assume rome replaced jerusalem

chrysostom
March 24th, 2016, 10:41 AM
http://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Lopuhin/tolkovaja_biblija_77/21
Lopukhin thinks New jerusalem will be a supernaturally created place for Christians to live in.

I am obviously a big fan of john chrysostom
-how does he rate with you?

chrysostom
April 4th, 2016, 04:47 AM
the church would not have survived in jerusalem
-and
-that is why we needed a new one
-rome

HisServant
April 4th, 2016, 06:26 AM
the church would not have survived in jerusalem
-and
-that is why we needed a new one
-rome

Yet Rome is under a perpetual curse by God... and it shows.

chrysostom
April 4th, 2016, 06:28 AM
Yet Rome is under a perpetual curse by God... and it shows.

so how has it survived?

SaulToPaul
April 4th, 2016, 06:36 AM
the church would not have survived in jerusalem
-and
-that is why we needed a new one
-rome

Why does Rome look nothing like the new Jerusalem described in Revelation?
Did Rome come down from God out of heaven?

HisServant
April 4th, 2016, 08:13 AM
so how has it survived?

Satan is alive and well in this world.

rako
April 7th, 2016, 03:12 PM
I am obviously a big fan of john chrysostom
-how does he rate with you?
Pretty good.
He made an interesting observation that "generation" in Greek can mean tribe or race rather than a period of c. 120 years of a human life. He quoted Psalms LXX to that effect. This is important, he explained, when we turned to the Olivet Discourse and Jesus says that the generation doesn't pass way untl all the things happen.

Skeptics make a big deal out of that controversy in the Olivet Discourse, while Protestants typically aren't familiar with Chrysostom's apologia here.

rako
April 7th, 2016, 03:21 PM
the temple is no more
-and
-it is reasonable to assume the church replaced it
-it is also reasonable to assume rome replaced jerusalem
The church is not a building, the temple was a building. John's gospel says no more worship in the temple but in hearts.

Rome is not one soul but a physical location like the Temple was .
Rome did not come down from heaven.
The Orthodox POV is not that Rome is the New Jerusalem.

Maybe in some sense it was until the schism, after which Constantinople and then Moscow became metaphorical Jerusalems. Moscow is sometimes called the third Rome.

But that is not the Orthodox POV on the Biblical phrase new Jerusalem though.

chrysostom
April 8th, 2016, 05:15 AM
Rome did not come down from heaven.


do you expect new jerusalem to come down from heaven?

SaulToPaul
April 8th, 2016, 05:55 AM
do you expect new jerusalem to come down from heaven?

Why wouldn't we?
I go and prepare a place for you...

Ben Masada
April 11th, 2016, 04:21 AM
Do I need to color a picture for you Ben? I'm no fan or believer in Paul's remixed gospel about Jesus. I believe in the gospel of----> Jesus, the one the Jews were supposed to take to heart and teach the world. But you guys lost sight of the spiritual kingdom and became arrogant, segregated, quibbling theology lawyers. So, sadly, you were "un-chosen."

I have faith in the Father Just like Jesus did. I have faith in the unknown like Abraham did and many of his descendants after him.

You are totally mistaken Caino. The gospel of Jesus was called Judaism. That's why Jesus said that salvation is achieved by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)That's what Paul hated and you all are mistaken about him.

chrysostom
April 11th, 2016, 04:39 AM
You are totally mistaken Caino. The gospel of Jesus was called Judaism. That's why Jesus said that salvation is achieved by listening to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31)That's what Paul hated and you all are mistaken about him.

Jesus said
-love God and your neighbor
-and
-all the law hangs on that

-one is the spirit of the law
-and
-the other is the letter

Caino
April 15th, 2016, 04:16 AM
The Jews don't even practice the law anymore, and the enemies of Jesus in Judaism completely disagree with your bizarre claim. Judaism is an evolved religion of grossly exaggerated historical tradition created by Zionist false prophets who still sit in tiny Jerusalem waiting for their Messiah who is MIA.

Luke was a Jew who never knew Jesus and sought to make Jesus the fulfillment of the corrupt Old Testament. He portrayed Jesus as the fulfillment of the OT. Jesus would be better served by being rescued from the Bible box altogether and let Judaism get back to Pagan blood sacrifices and self important ruminations.

freelight
April 16th, 2016, 02:12 AM
here is what they say about

New Jerusalem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Jerusalem#Catholicism)

Note there are a dozen or more views about the so called 'New Jerusalem' in the wiki article.

It's section on Catholicism's view is below. Focus on the underlined and bold -


Catholicism

The Catholic Church places the New Jerusalem in the eschatological role found in Revelation. Catholicism also holds that the New Jerusalem already exists as a spiritual community in Heaven, the Church triumphant, with an outpost on earth, the Church militant. Together, the Church triumphant, Church militant, and Church suffering form the Church universal. Augustine of Hippo, a Doctor of the Church and Church Father, draws inspiration from John's account of the New Jerusalem to outline this view in his monumental work The City of God.

The Catholic Encyclopedia article on "Heaven" states that Catholic

theologians deem more appropriate that there should be a special and glorious abode, in which the blessed have their peculiar home and where they usually abide, even though they be free to go about in this world. For the surroundings in the midst of which the blessed have their dwelling must be in accordance with their happy state; and the internal union of charity which joins them in affection must find its outward expression in community of habitation. At the end of the world, the earth together with the celestial bodies will be gloriously transformed into a part of the dwelling-place of the blessed (Revelation 21). Hence there seems to be no sufficient reason for attributing a metaphorical sense to those numerous utterances of the Bible which suggest a definite dwelling-place of the blessed. Theologians, therefore, generally hold that the heaven of the blessed is a special place with definite limits. Naturally, this place is held to exist, not within the earth, but, in accordance with the expressions of Scripture, without and beyond its limits. All further details regarding its locality are quite uncertain. The Church has decided nothing on this subject.

As allegorical as I am....I don't see Rome as the 'new Jerusalem' since its historical roots are more pagan, although a more liberal Catholic may think "all roads lead to Rome" :) It's more logical to allocate a renewed city of peace being centralized in or correlated with the geographical zone of 'Old Jerusalem' in some way, albeit being a spiritual condition or state. In any case this heavenly city is from above, not below....although a physical city may be a representation or prototype.

chrysostom
May 13th, 2016, 03:57 AM
jerusalem was the center of the jewish world
-new jerusalem is the center of the christian world
-that would be rome
-the church would not have survived in jerusalem
-the church would not have survived in constantinople
-the church did survive in rome
-the new jerusalem

patrick jane
May 13th, 2016, 04:53 AM
24212

patrick jane
May 13th, 2016, 04:55 AM
242132421424215

New Jerusalem

SaulToPaul
May 16th, 2016, 06:10 AM
jerusalem was the center of the jewish world
-new jerusalem is the center of the christian world
-that would be rome
-the church would not have survived in jerusalem
-the church would not have survived in constantinople
-the church did survive in rome
-the new jerusalem

:chuckle:

chrysostom
June 14th, 2016, 04:20 AM
it's rome

patrick jane
June 14th, 2016, 05:02 AM
do you expect new jerusalem to come down from heaven?
That's what the Bible says. Oh, that's right, you're catholic, you barely know your Bible

SaulToPaul
June 14th, 2016, 05:58 AM
it's rome

0% chance.

SaulToPaul
June 14th, 2016, 05:59 AM
That's what the Bible says. Oh, that's right, you're catholic, you barely know your Bible

What little he does know, and what little he has heard, he does not believe.
He'd rather cook up harebrained theories.

heir
June 14th, 2016, 06:01 AM
What little he does know, and what little he has heard, he does not believe.
He'd rather cook up harebrained theories.and because all scripture is not his final authority, he'll not be corrected!

Ben Masada
June 16th, 2016, 02:38 PM
The Jews don't even practice the law anymore, and the enemies of Jesus in Judaism completely disagree with your bizarre claim. Judaism is an evolved religion of grossly exaggerated historical tradition created by Zionist false prophets who still sit in tiny Jerusalem waiting for their Messiah who is MIA.

Luke was a Jew who never knew Jesus and sought to make Jesus the fulfillment of the corrupt Old Testament. He portrayed Jesus as the fulfillment of the OT. Jesus would be better served by being rescued from the Bible box altogether and let Judaism get back to Pagan blood sacrifices and self important ruminations.

Luke was not a Jew but a Greek Doctor daily companion of Paul. You are not reading your NT. Luke was second to none among the disciples of Paul as Replacement Theology was concerned. I agree with you that Jesus would be better served by being rescued from the NT. Anyway, he never even dreamed that the NT would ever rise. Paul locked him into the NT with a key of lies to rather project himself by proxy as the Messiah. So, the Messiah of the NT was Paul, not Jesus. Paul was the one who created Christianity. (Acts 11:26)

Ben Masada
June 16th, 2016, 02:52 PM
New Jerusalem is revealed in Galatians 4:22-31.

It is the invisible city of God in which all in Christ will be resurrected to live in His glory.

Welcome back . . Sorry for your absence.

New Jerusalem is a reference to the "New World Order" for the Jews who returned from captivity in Babylon.
That's the original meaning as "Jerusalem" is also a reference not to the place but to the People. (Isaiah
40:1) "Comfort, oh comfort My People, says the Lord. Speak tenderly to Jerusalem." To comfort someone is to speak tenderly to him or her. So, to speak tenderly to Jerusalem is the same as to speak tenderly to the People; the whole Israel.

Nang
June 16th, 2016, 03:37 PM
New Jerusalem is a reference to the "New World Order" for the Jews who returned from captivity in Babylon.
That's the original meaning as "Jerusalem" is also a reference not to the place but to the People. (Isaiah
40:1) "Comfort, oh comfort My People, says the Lord. Speak tenderly to Jerusalem." To comfort someone is to speak tenderly to him or her. So, to speak tenderly to Jerusalem is the same as to speak tenderly to the People; the whole Israel.

Apply this to the holy city; the bride of Christ who comes down from heaven; the church consisting of all the redeemed; the spiritual "Israel". . and you have found Truth. Revelation 22:1-7

SaulToPaul
June 17th, 2016, 09:07 AM
Apply this to the holy city; the bride of Christ who comes down from heaven; the church consisting of all the redeemed; the spiritual "Israel". . and you have found Truth. Revelation 22:1-7

Why can't it be an actual city?

The LORD Jesus: "I go and prepare a place for you..."

Nang
June 17th, 2016, 01:52 PM
Why can't it be an actual city?

The LORD Jesus: "I go and prepare a place for you..."

Why don't you just break down and read the Book of Hebrews? You would learn about the city that Abraham looked for, and that will answer your question.

See Hebrews 11:8-10, 14-16 and Hebrews 12:18-24 with Revelation Chapters 21 & 22.

This promise of the heavenly Jerusalem far surpasses any literal city ever built and looked upon by mankind.

SaulToPaul
June 17th, 2016, 01:56 PM
Why don't you just break down and read the Book of Hebrews? You would learn about the city that Abraham looked for, and that will answer your question.

See Hebrews 11:8-10, 14-16 and Hebrews 12:18-24 with Revelation Chapters 21 & 22.

This promise of the heavenly Jerusalem far surpasses any literal city ever built and looked upon by mankind.

Why can't it be an actual city?

The LORD Jesus: "I go and prepare a place for you..."

Nang
June 17th, 2016, 02:04 PM
Why can't it be an actual city?

The LORD Jesus: "I go and prepare a place for you..."

:deadhorse:

SaulToPaul
June 17th, 2016, 02:05 PM
:deadhorse:

What place did Jesus prepare for them?

Nang
June 17th, 2016, 02:07 PM
What place did Jesus prepare for them?

Read Hebrews 11:10, 12:22, 13:14 that tells you what God has built with His own hands for His church.

Gurucam
June 17th, 2016, 04:08 PM
Luke: 17 King James Version (KJV)
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

There are two Jerusalems. There are two covenant. There are two promised land/destinations.

The two covenants:

Galatians: 4 KJV N.T.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; covenant # 1, the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage (bondage under the law of sin and death, the ten commandments) with her children.
26 covenant # 2. But Jerusalem which is above is free (free from the law of sin and death, the ten commandments), which is the mother of us all.

The first covenant is the ten commandments, also called the law of sin and death. The second covenant which replaced the first flawed covenant is as follows:

Romans: 8 King James Version (KJV)
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The new covenant is anchored on the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Lord Jesus who is 'seated' on the right side of the Holy Spirit, in spirit heaven, 'above'. For the past 2000 odd years this was the Jerusalem that was above and free.

The two Jerusalems are linked to the two covenants. These are two promised lands or destinations also called two new Jerusalems:

One Jerusalem is hell inside the earth, with Satan.

The other Jerusalem is God's kingdom of heaven above in spirit heaven and later God's kingdom of heaven on the surface of earth.

Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. This herald and anchored the division of Abraham's generations into two different sets of people. Basically Isaac generation are Christians and Ishmael generation remained Jews.

The two Jerusalems are directly linked to the two generations of Abraham, as follows:

The promise land for Issac and his generations is God's kingdom of heaven above in spirit heaven and later God's kingdom of heaven on the surface of earth. This is the Jerusalem that is above and free from the ten commandments.

The promise land of Ishmael and his generations is hell, inside the earth, with Satan. This is the Jerusalem that is in bondage to esteem, use, promote and invoke the ten commandments (i.e. in bondage under the law of sin, death and punishment in hell, inside the earth, with Satan.)

Romans: 9 KJV N.T.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 They which are the children of the flesh (Ishmael and his generations), these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise (Issac and his generations) are counted for the seed

Galatians: 4 KJV N.T.
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

The above is allegory. Although it happened in Abraham's family it is a general law. In the above 'heir' means to inherit the surface of earth, in the fullness of time when God's kingdom of heaven returns to the surface of earth. The above confirms that all generations of children of God, like Issac will inherit God's kingdom of heaven in the spirit realm and later on the surface of earth without generations of children of the flesh, like Ishmael.

There are just two places to go to, after death and in the final separation:

Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Verse: 34 above applies to Abraham and Issac and Issac's generations. Issac and his generations were and continue to be, born children of God. They are not Jews although they are generations of Abraham, through Issac. As a life style, they naturally and spontaneously transgress the ten commandments so as to serve in the newness of spirit (like their father, Abraham learned to do). This made them children of God/Christians and delivered them into God's kingdom of heaven.

Verse: 41 above applies to Ishmael and his generations. These are born children of the flesh, also called 'the dead'. They continue to esteem, use, promote and invoke the law of sin and death, as their life style. Those under the law invariably sin, have spiritual death and are delivered into punishment, in hell, inside the earth, with Satan. These remained Jews. They did not become Christians.

* The only exception relate to the few of Ishmael's generations (i.e. born Jews) who, in their life time on earth, became transformed. Although they were born under the ten commandments, as children of the flesh (i.e. people whose hearts are waxed gross), that changed. During their life time, their hearts ceased being waxed gross. That is, they actualized their 'eyes to see', 'ears to hear' and hearts to understand and Jesus healed them:

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

These chosen few born Jews overcame their fear, dropped the ten commandment and transgress the ten commandments so as to serve in the newness of spirit. They became adopted children of God/adopted Christians. Verse 34 above applied to these chosen few as well.

These few 'adopted' children of God (who rose from Ishmael generation) joined 'born' children of God (i.e. all of Issac generations) and together they inherit God's kingdom of heaven (everywhere) without children of the flesh (without the very great majority of Ismael's generations).

Luke: 13 King James Version (KJV)
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves (and Ishmael and his generations) thrust out.

The new Jerusalem (on earth) is not Israel or any section or part of earth at this time. The new Jerusalem will be the entire surface of earth, when God's kingdom is fully formed on the surface of earth, in the fullness of time. This will happen naturally and spontaneously when all children of the flesh are teleported off the surface of earth and into hell, inside the earth, together with Satan.

Matthews: 24 KJV N.T.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

And according to KJV N.T. revelations, from among all of Abraham's generations, only authentic Christians (Issac and his generations) will inherit God's kingdom of heaven on the surface of earth. No Jew or current 'Israel' will be any where around. According to KJV N.T. revelations, the promise land of the Jews (Ishmael and his generations) is a totally different place.

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

SaulToPaul
June 18th, 2016, 12:48 PM
Read Hebrews 11:10, 12:22, 13:14 that tells you what God has built with His own hands for His church.

A literal city.

Nang
June 18th, 2016, 01:07 PM
A literal city.

A person who thinks God has literal hands to stack the stones, might think so . . .

steko
June 18th, 2016, 01:15 PM
Sure is a lot of colory words a few posts back.

SaulToPaul
June 18th, 2016, 01:27 PM
A person who thinks God has literal hands to stack the stones, might think so . . .

the LORD Jesus: "I go and prepare a place for you..."

He has hands.

Nang
June 18th, 2016, 01:39 PM
the LORD Jesus: "I go and prepare a place for you..."

He has hands.

And you think Jesus is literally using His (glorified) hands to stack stones in heaven?

No, Jesus Christ is building the New Jerusalem with "living stones" (II Peter 1:4-6) which are His spiritual house. Hebrews 3:6

SaulToPaul
June 19th, 2016, 02:19 PM
And you think Jesus is literally using His (glorified) hands to stack stones in heaven?

No, Jesus Christ is building the New Jerusalem with "living stones" (II Peter 1:4-6) which are His spiritual house. Hebrews 3:6

No reason to believe it is not a literal city.

freelight
June 19th, 2016, 04:15 PM
No reason to believe it is not a literal city.

Literal, figurative or metaphorical? It may well be an actual city with dimensions or interdimensional, since there is an exoteric and esoteric aspect to certain terms. It may also refer to a community of peace, a higher state of consciousness, where unity is realized....since the name's root meaning is peace, wholeness, completeness. We as spiritual Jews are living stone's which make up the city of righteousness and peace. The kingdom of God is wherever the rule, reign or presence of God IS.

Epoisses
June 19th, 2016, 10:38 PM
The dimensions given for the city of God are 12,000 furlongs which in miles would be 1500. These dimensions are just fantastic and I have seen them interpreted in 3 different ways. The first being 1500 miles to a side. The second with roughly 400 miles to a side with the length and breadth being combined in the measurement. The final interpretation was 12 furlongs and 1000 paces which would be roughly 2 miles to a side. The second measurement seems the most plausible with the city about the size of Texas. This city would be so large that the top would be in outer space and it would knock off the rotation of the earth. I’m sure that won’t be a problem however for a God who could construct such a city in the first place. The last area I wanted to discuss is the actual shape of the city. The length, breadth and height are equal and I have seen renderings of the city as a cube or a pyramid. To me a cube is an ugly structure and I can’t imagine God making the eternal city in the shape of a Rubik’s cube so the pyramid seems more plausible with the throne room at the tip of the pyramid. The pyramids of Egypt would be a model of what the city looks like.

SaulToPaul
June 21st, 2016, 06:47 AM
Compare the materials used to describe the New Jerusalem in Revelation and the materials available on the earth in Genesis 1-4.

chrysostom
July 11th, 2016, 02:30 AM
the temple was destroyed
-it will not be rebuilt
-it is replaced by the church built on a rock
-rome is new jerusalem

SaulToPaul
July 11th, 2016, 01:49 PM
the temple was destroyed
-it will not be rebuilt
-it is replaced by the church built on a rock
-rome is new jerusalem

:chuckle:

chrysostom
August 3rd, 2016, 12:35 AM
the church has survived -
it would not have survived in jerusalem -
it would not have survived in constantinople -
the new rome -
it did survive in rome -
the new jerusalem

SaulToPaul
August 3rd, 2016, 06:38 AM
the church has survived -
it would not have survived in jerusalem -
it would not have survived in constantinople -
the new rome -
it did survive in rome -
the new jerusalem

:chuckle:

SaulToPaul
August 3rd, 2016, 06:44 AM
Rev 21
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


Everyone currently in Rome has their name written in the Book of Life.

:chuckle:

Ben Masada
August 5th, 2016, 01:25 PM
the temple was destroyed
-it will not be rebuilt
-it is replaced by the church built on a rock
-rome is new jerusalem

It means Paul had to celebrate the victory of Replacement Theology. He had replaced the Temple with the Church.

Ben Masada
August 5th, 2016, 01:36 PM
Apply this to the holy city; the bride of Christ who comes down from heaven; the church consisting of all the redeemed; the spiritual "Israel". . and you have found Truth. Revelation 22:1-7

Well Nang, no offense meant but this message of yours above is quite too fictitious. No wonder you got it from the book of Revelation.

Ben Masada
August 5th, 2016, 01:46 PM
Jesus said -love God and your neighbor -and -all the law hangs on that
-one is the spirit of the law -and -the other is the letter

What was the spirit of the Law in the literal words of Jesus to listen to "Moses" aka the Law, do you have any idea?(Luke 16:29-31)

chrysostom
August 5th, 2016, 02:09 PM
What was the spirit of the Law in the literal words of Jesus to listen to "Moses" aka the Law, do you have any idea?(Luke 16:29-31)

don't really know what to make of it outside of the fact that you need to listen and obey those with authority

Ben Masada
August 7th, 2016, 01:42 PM
don't really know what to make of it outside of the fact that you need to listen and obey those with authority

What about if those with authority do not live according to the Law and the Prophets? (Mat. 5:17-19)Would you listen and obey them all the same?

chrysostom
August 7th, 2016, 04:00 PM
What about if those with authority do not live according to the Law and the Prophets? (Mat. 5:17-19)Would you listen and obey them all the same?

somewhere Jesus says we should -
just listen to what they say and don't watch what they do

chrysostom
September 20th, 2016, 10:10 AM
rome is new jerusalem

SaulToPaul
September 20th, 2016, 10:59 AM
rome is new jerusalem

:chuckle:

steko
September 20th, 2016, 11:43 AM
rome is new jerusalem


:chuckle:

:chuckle:

I've been to Rome many times.
It bears no resemblance to what I understand of the New Jerusalem.

SaulToPaul
September 20th, 2016, 12:26 PM
:chuckle:

I've been to Rome many times.
It bears no resemblance to what I understand of the New Jerusalem.

Did you miss the time that Rome descended from God out of heaven?

Danoh
September 20th, 2016, 05:27 PM
rome is new jerusalem

Non sono molto brillante...

chrysostom
September 28th, 2016, 09:39 AM
Did you miss the time that Rome descended from God out of heaven?

you really need a lesson on how to interpret the bible

SaulToPaul
September 28th, 2016, 09:40 AM
you really need a lesson on how to interpret the bible

Thanks. If I believe it, I don't need to interpret it.

SaulToPaul
September 28th, 2016, 09:50 AM
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


Everyone that enters Rome is in the book of life, per Chrys

steko
September 28th, 2016, 10:03 PM
Did you miss the time that Rome descended from God out of heaven?

Drat! Yeah, I missed that one.

What I didn't miss was my friend and I dropping acid on the bridge over the Tiber.
(Not advocating its use.)
Almost immediately, up drives a van and out of it, with his entourage, steps an Indian Guru with flowing white robes. They took us on a drive around Rome and then to his Ashram. He was Swami Paramahansa Yogananda's successor(Kriya Yoga). I don't think he was a disciple of Christ. I got his address and we went back weeks later but he had returned to India.
After we left there, we tried to get to an Elton John concert. This was 1971 and we didn't even know who Elton John was, but we'd heard there was a rock concert in Rome.
We kept getting on the wrong bus and wound up riding the wrong buses all day until finally we caught the last bus to the Youth Hostel as it got dark. It had been fun though. We'd sit in the back of the bus and when the bus would hit the deep swags in the street the bus would throw us up to the ceiling. Yep.... did that all day. We must have passed the Colosseum a dozen times. I remember seein' it go by. Actually, we were going by.

The next day , we caught the train for a 12 hour return trip to Sicily.

I don't think it was the New Jerusalem but I've learned to be open to consider evidence from others on such matters.

PS: I was genuinely saved by the Lord Jesus Christ according to His gospel of grace in 1979 and renounced much of that which I described.
It's a dead end.

chrysostom
October 12th, 2016, 04:51 AM
"new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven"
-
literally only happens in the future
-
keep watching

SaulToPaul
October 12th, 2016, 05:59 AM
"new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven"
-
literally only happens in the future
-
keep watching

What do you mean

chrysostom
October 23rd, 2016, 03:19 PM
What do you mean

it means just what is says

chrysostom
October 23rd, 2016, 03:21 PM
new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
it has the river running through it 22:1 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A1&version=KJV)
it has three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

it looks like rome

SaulToPaul
October 24th, 2016, 08:38 AM
it looks like rome

When does Rome come down from God out of heaven?

chrysostom
November 1st, 2016, 05:47 AM
When does Rome come down from God out of heaven?

it is history
-and-
you missed it
-
do you ever look at history?
(outside of the ot)

SaulToPaul
November 1st, 2016, 06:42 AM
it is history
-and-
you missed it
-
do you ever look at history?
(outside of the ot)

:chuckle:

The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven AFTER the Lord returns.
Do details matter in your schemes?

Ben Masada
November 1st, 2016, 06:52 AM
somewhere Jesus says we should -
just listen to what they say and don't watch what they do

Is that why you don't listen to Jesus when he said to listen to "Moses" aka the Law? (Luke 16:29-31)

chrysostom
November 12th, 2016, 07:07 AM
Is that why you don't listen to Jesus when he said to listen to "Moses" aka the Law? (Luke 16:29-31)

I don't even like to watch what you do

chrysostom
November 23rd, 2016, 06:08 AM
babylon the great is not babylon -
new rome is not rome -
new jerusalem is not jerusalem

Ben Masada
November 23rd, 2016, 06:40 AM
I don't even like to watch what you do

The only thing I just did was to quote the truth about what Jesus meant about achieving salvation. And I quote your own NT. (Luke 16:29-31 so that you won't think I spoke from the top of my head.

freelight
November 23rd, 2016, 02:12 PM
babylon the great is not babylon -
new rome is not rome -
new jerusalem is not jerusalem


As we've shared previously, the 'New Jerusalem' is from above,...it is the matrix of all souls born of the Spirit, which is why she is our Mother :) - The physical city of Jerusalem is but a material manifestation or human representation of the etheric kingdom which comes down into the material abode to become one with it. This is mirrored in our own physical body being the tabernacle of Spirit.

chrysostom
December 8th, 2016, 06:52 AM
As we've shared previously, the 'New Jerusalem' is from above,...it is the matrix of all souls born of the Spirit, which is why she is our Mother :) - The physical city of Jerusalem is but a material manifestation or human representation of the etheric kingdom which comes down into the material abode to become one with it. This is mirrored in our own physical body being the tabernacle of Spirit.

most of what is described in the apocalypse is real
-and-
you won't find it
-if-
you are not watching

freelight
December 8th, 2016, 10:29 AM
most of what is described in the apocalypse is real
-and-
you won't find it
-if-
you are not watching


All language however is 'symbolic' ;)

chrysostom
December 9th, 2016, 05:34 AM
All language however is 'symbolic' ;)

are you watching for symbols?

freelight
December 9th, 2016, 02:19 PM
are you watching for symbols?

Yes,...I think symbols are important key communicators, don't you? We can only know about a 'New Jerusalem' from descriptions in the scriptures. Revelation is pretty symbolic, open to various translations in space and time...and in different context-applications. What I've shared previously pretty much holds for now, unless you want to take this discussion to new dimensions :)

chrysostom
December 9th, 2016, 05:22 PM
Yes,...I think symbols are important key communicators, don't you? We can only know about a 'New Jerusalem' from descriptions in the scriptures. Revelation is pretty symbolic, open to various translations in space and time...and in different context-applications. What I've shared previously pretty much holds for now, unless you want to take this discussion to new dimensions :)

have you found any symbols?

freelight
December 11th, 2016, 09:51 PM
have you found any symbols?


I try to stay aware of them, and the 'New Jerusalem' is a most wonderful symbol, yes? :)

chrysostom
December 21st, 2016, 06:02 AM
I try to stay aware of them, and the 'New Jerusalem' is a most wonderful symbol, yes? :)

rome is real -
the church is real -
the pope is real -
they feed His sheep
-
the sheep are real

chrysostom
January 2nd, 2017, 05:13 AM
one church -
one flock -
one shepherd

SaulToPaul
January 2nd, 2017, 06:35 AM
one church -
one flock -
one shepherd

who is the one shepherd?


The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want.

chrysostom
January 17th, 2017, 07:50 AM
who is the one shepherd?


Jesus asked peter to feed His sheep
-
three times

SaulToPaul
January 17th, 2017, 08:30 AM
Jesus asked peter to feed His sheep
-
three times

who is the one shepherd?


The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want.

chrysostom
February 6th, 2017, 05:42 AM
who is the one shepherd?


The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want.

who is feeding His sheep?

SaulToPaul
February 6th, 2017, 07:44 AM
who is feeding His sheep?

who is the one shepherd?


The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want.

balut55
February 6th, 2017, 11:52 AM
Yes,...I think symbols are important key communicators, don't you? We can only know about a 'New Jerusalem' from descriptions in the scriptures. Revelation is pretty symbolic, open to various translations in space and time...and in different context-applications. What I've shared previously pretty much holds for now, unless you want to take this discussion to new dimensions :)

There are many carnal interpretations but only one spiritual interpretation.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=78367)

chrysostom
March 14th, 2017, 02:40 AM
who is the one shepherd?


The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want.

who is feeding you?

SaulToPaul
March 14th, 2017, 06:26 AM
who is feeding you?

who is the one shepherd?


The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want.

chrysostom
April 10th, 2017, 05:43 AM
new jerusalem (https://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/247/flashcards/271247/png/picture2081321759980269.png)
a river
a wall
twelve gates

SaulToPaul
April 10th, 2017, 05:52 AM
new jerusalem (https://classconnection.s3.amazonaws.com/247/flashcards/271247/png/picture2081321759980269.png)
a river
a wall
twelve gates

Comes down from heaven after the LORD returns.
Details matter.
Thanks for watching.

chrysostom
May 18th, 2017, 04:04 AM
Comes down from heaven after the LORD returns.
Details matter.
Thanks for watching.

where does it say after the Lord returns?

SaulToPaul
May 18th, 2017, 06:25 AM
where does it say after the Lord returns?

Where does it say before the LORD returns?

Interplanner
May 18th, 2017, 07:54 AM
where does it say after the Lord returns?




It does not come down to this earth, 21:1. STP doesn't watch very closely, because he has cartoons to post on TOL.

chrysostom
June 10th, 2017, 05:07 AM
new jerusalem

new york
new england
new rome
how do you become a new something?
jerusalem was the center for the jews
what would be the center for the christians?
rome?
that would make it the new jerusalem
it has the river running through it 22:1 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+22%3A1&version=KJV)
it has three gates in each direction 21:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+21%3A13&version=KJV)

back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

some are actually waiting for it to come down from the sky -
really

SaulToPaul
June 10th, 2017, 02:03 PM
some are actually waiting for it to come down from the sky -
really

Yep.

I go and prepare a place for you.
He went to heaven.

chrysostom
July 19th, 2017, 04:00 AM
Yep.

I go and prepare a place for you.
He went to heaven.

paul went to rome

SaulToPaul
July 19th, 2017, 09:06 AM
paul went to rome

:chuckle:

chrysostom
August 18th, 2017, 01:55 AM
:chuckle:

so where did paul go?

SaulToPaul
August 18th, 2017, 06:32 AM
so where did paul go?

Read Acts.

Zeke
August 18th, 2017, 08:10 AM
Yep.

I go and prepare a place for you.
He went to heaven.

Yep and the kingdom of God/heaven is in man Luke 17:20-21, and the temple is also 1Cor 3:16, etc..Time to cross the river and leave the killer behind 2Cor 3:6.

freelight
August 30th, 2017, 08:15 PM
so where did paul go?

Any evidence that he did? Even Peters supposed visit to Rome or his burial place is a matter of speculation beyond what could be deduced from historical accounts, heresay, legend, etc.

freelight
August 30th, 2017, 08:19 PM
Yep and the kingdom of God/heaven is in man Luke 17:20-21, and the temple is also 1Cor 3:16, etc..Time to cross the river and leave the killer behind 2Cor 3:6.

Aumen :)

Man is the temple of God. All religious truths and spiritual relations are interpreted within such a context, since 'as above, so below'.....'as within, so without'.

All is spirit.

Interplanner
September 1st, 2017, 06:27 AM
some are actually waiting for it to come down from the sky -
really




It is an expression of hope that will not come down to this earth, but will be on the NHNE, which does not have the same kind of corporeal existence as now. For ex., God is the light; there will not be a sun.

Epoisses
September 1st, 2017, 12:02 PM
The new Jerusalem is only a make believe city for make believe Christians.

freelight
September 5th, 2017, 01:42 AM
The new Jerusalem is only a make believe city for make believe Christians.

Then how do you interpret the mention of this city in scripture, and in what way is it 'made up'?

Epoisses
September 5th, 2017, 06:09 PM
Then how do you interpret the mention of this city in scripture, and in what way is it 'made up'?

I was implying it's a real city with real foundations and real walls. The new Jerusalem is usually portrayed as a cube or a pyramid with the length, breadth and height all being equal. The pyramid shape seems the most plausible with the throne room of the Father at the tip of the pyramid. The pyramids of Egypt would be models of what the city looks like.