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chrysostom
July 10th, 2014, 04:57 AM
the four horsemen


The rider of the white horse is Constantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) from the white sea

The rider of the red horse is Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) from the red sea, Antichrist

The rider of the black horse is Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx) from the black sea, communism

The rider of the pale horse is with us now

So you say Constantine did not come from the White Sea? This is true but did you know that even today the Turks refer to the Mediterranean Sea as the white sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea#cite_note-6)? It is a rough sea with what they call white caps, which makes it look white. Also did you know that bow in Genesis (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) means covenant? Constantine started the Christian empire that was to last over a thousand years (https://www.google.com/search?q=byzantine+empire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb). It would not have happened without divine intervention.

To be continued…….


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

Truster
July 10th, 2014, 05:23 AM
Gibberish.

northwye
July 10th, 2014, 08:08 AM
The four horses and riders of Revelation 6: 2-8 are a quartet. They are all four of the same type of thing, or world empires, and the traits of world empires. In interpreting the four horsemen, one cannot just decide for himself that one is the anti-Christ, one is the Pope, or Hitler, or whatever, because that does not fit together as a quartet.

In fact, there is no one man anti-Christ in scripture. Read the two texts on anti-Christ, in I John 2:18, which says at that time there were many anti-Christs, and read I John 4: 3 which identifies the anti-Christ power as the spirit of anti-Christ.

The four horsemen as world empires and the characteristics of those empires are to come into existence in our time line. They are not pre-Cross world empires, with attached traits such as usury banking, colonialism, capitalism, Marxism or the Nazi movement as fascism.

It helps a great deal to see the four world empires in Daniel 7: 4-7 as being post-Cross empires not the same empires as in Daniel 2, which are the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman empires.

Using the four post-Cross empires in Daniel 7: 4-7, we can see that the white horse is the British empire, the red horse is the Marxist Soviet Union, the black horse is Nazi Germany and the pale horse with Death as its rider and Hell following him is that fourth beast empire of Daniel 7: 7, which in Revelation 13: 2 has traits of the lion, bear and leopard empires. The beast empire which in history came to world power following the rising of the British, Russian and Nazi Germany empires is the U.S.

There is no one man anti-Christ among the four horses, nor is there a Hitler, or whoever someone might dream up. Because the four horses represent world empires and their ideologies.

chrysostom
July 10th, 2014, 09:13 AM
The four horsemen as world empires and the characteristics of those empires are to come into existence in our time line. They are not pre-Cross world empires, with attached traits such as usury banking, colonialism, capitalism, Marxism or the Nazi movement as fascism.

It helps a great deal to see the four world empires in Daniel 7: 4-7 as being post-Cross empires not the same empires as in Daniel 2, which are the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman empires.

the four horsemen are not world empires nor are they beasts
and
beasts are called beasts in daniel
but
persia is not one of them as I point out in my thread on the four beasts

Daniel1611
July 10th, 2014, 09:25 AM
There are many anti-christs. Anti-christs like Nero, Constantine, Stalin, Bush, Obama, Mao, etc. (evil men opposed to the ways of Christ and who want to dominate the world with evil.). Then there are anti-christs who is anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ (as written in 1 John), then there is THE Anti-Christ who will be a global ruler put into power by Satan in the end times. This seems to be an obvious interpretation from how it's laid out in the Bible. I don't believe that the Bible is overly complicated or that God wants to trick us. IDK if all my interpretations about the end times are right, but it seems to me there are anti-christs and THE anti-Christ and the four horsemen will be tied in with THE anti-Christ in the last days,

Daniel1611
July 10th, 2014, 09:26 AM
Kinda like we will all face tribulation, but in the end times there is THE Tribulation.

chrysostom
July 10th, 2014, 09:30 AM
Kinda like we will all face tribulation, but in the end times there is THE Tribulation.

based on what?

Daniel1611
July 10th, 2014, 09:48 AM
based on what?

The Bible talks all the through it about believers facing tribulation. The whole book of Acts is about their tribulation, same with Paul's letters. Jesus told us we would all have tribulation if we followed him, but to be of good cheer. But in the end times, there is THE tribulation "such as was never seen before or will never be seen again" where the anti-Christ will persecute the believers and there will be horrible wars and natural disasters and all sorts of terribleness until Jesus returns to save the people who believe in him and survive THE tribulation. You see tribulation in every book of the Bible. And THE Great Tribulation is described in Mathew, Mark, Luke, and Revelation to name a few.

Unless I don't understand your question. I thought tribulation was a basic Biblical idea.

chrysostom
July 10th, 2014, 10:36 AM
The Bible talks all the through it about believers facing tribulation. The whole book of Acts is about their tribulation, same with Paul's letters. Jesus told us we would all have tribulation if we followed him, but to be of good cheer. But in the end times, there is THE tribulation "such as was never seen before or will never be seen again" where the anti-Christ will persecute the believers and there will be horrible wars and natural disasters and all sorts of terribleness until Jesus returns to save the people who believe in him and survive THE tribulation. You see tribulation in every book of the Bible. And THE Great Tribulation is described in Mathew, Mark, Luke, and Revelation to name a few.

Unless I don't understand your question. I thought tribulation was a basic Biblical idea.

much of what you are talking about may already be history
and
can you find it in the apocalypse?

chrysostom
July 12th, 2014, 02:18 PM
it should be clear
the two most significant people who have ever lived
are
Jesus and Mohamed
if one is the Christ
the other must be the Antichrist

the third most significant person to live is Constantine who made the world safe for christians

the two greatest threats to christianity are Islam and communism
and
that would make Marx
the fourth most significant person in the world

look no further for the four horsemen

BigBoof1959
July 26th, 2014, 07:24 AM
I have a slightly different take on the four horsemen. They portray a repeating historical pattern.

The first horseman is on a white horse and is carrying a "toxon" or bow. Many people say this is a bow made of ribbon, but that doesn't fit the context of "conquering", and further, the septuagint uses this word to translate the Hebrew word "qehsheth", an archery bow. The root word for toxon is "tik-tow", which means "to bring forth, produce". It is also used to speak of a mother bringing forth a child. The purpose of a toxon or archery bow is to "bring forth" an arrow. The root word "tik-tow" is also the basis for our english word "technology" (or as my little sister used to pronounce it "tik-nology").


Since life is a challenge for us humans as a result of the fall, we look in many directions for relief from the problems facing us. The first thing Adam and Eve did after sinning was to employ "tiknology" and "produce" coverings for themselves. New technology and inventions always come trotting out on their "white horse", promising to save the day. It never seems to work out that way though. Technology always comes at a price, environmentally, and in social structure.

Due to man's fallen nature, technological superiority inevitably leads to military superiority, which is symbolized by the red horseman.

War eventually leads to famine, since many farmers are taken from their work to fight, and an army needs to be fed. This is symbolized by the black horse.

The cumulative effects of what these three horsemen represent is wrapped up in the last horseman, death.

This is what I believe the four horsemen represent.

tomlapalm
July 26th, 2014, 07:38 AM
The four horsemen are angels, silly, sent from the Lamb. All Future events not historical people

the white is conquest or massing authority to a single power
red is war to achieve the desired unity under the anti Christ
black is famine
pale is death
death follows famine famine follows war war follows a desire to conquer, everytime

False Prophet
July 26th, 2014, 08:31 AM
The four horse men are terror, bewilderment, frustration, and despair.

False Prophet
July 26th, 2014, 09:08 AM
And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer. Rev 6:2
I heard that this was supposed to be the antichrist, but he is left out until Rev 12.

And another horse came forth, a red horse: and to him that sat thereon it was given to take peace from the earth, and that they should slay one another: and there was given unto him a great sword Rev 6:4

The world has not know peace. So this is why some say that the rider of the first horse is the antichrist. The antichrist appears and gives the world peace, then the rider on the red horse takes away the peace that the world has enjoyed for a brief time.

And I saw, and behold, a black horse; and he that sat thereon had a balance in his hand. 6And I heard as it were a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A measure of wheat for a shilling, and three measures of barley for a shilling; and the oil and the wine hurt thou not. Rev 6:5

The black horse is for economic hardship and famine on an unprecedented scale. A shilling was supposed to be a day's wages. A meal would cost you a day's work.

a pale horse: and he that sat upon him, his name was Death; and Hades followed with him. And there was given unto them authority over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with famine, and with death, and by the wild beasts of the earth. Rev 6:8

The pale horse is named death, and a quarter of the earth's population will be destroyed by this horse. So we have the four horseman. We can make this book say anything. It is written in parables and visions, so anyone can be a prophet making wild interpretations about a book of parables and visions.

chrysostom
July 26th, 2014, 11:21 AM
The world has not know peace.

who is responsible for that?

islam is in first place

False Prophet
July 26th, 2014, 11:54 AM
Our murderous species is not interested in peace. We can point fingers, but we can not control the actions of others. We can only take care of ourselves. I am responsible for my own actions, but I can not make others do what I want them to do.

chrysostom
July 26th, 2014, 11:57 AM
Our murderous species is not interested in peace. We can point fingers, but we can not control the actions of others. We can only take care of ourselves. I am responsible for my own actions, but I can not make others do what I want them to do.

you can try to prevent them from doing what they want to do

chrysostom
July 31st, 2014, 12:26 PM
zechariah, the father of john the baptist talks about red, black, and white horses (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah%206&version=KJV)

chrysostom
August 8th, 2014, 03:19 AM
most pictures of the four horsemen have the rider of the white horse carrying a bow and arrow
but
this picture has it right (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ottheinrich_Folio288r_Rev6A.jpg)
the rider of the white horse is carrying a rainbow
in genesis 9:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) bow means rainbow and a covenant

chrysostom
August 20th, 2014, 07:06 AM
I have a slightly different take on the four horsemen. They portray a repeating historical pattern.

The first horseman is on a white horse and is carrying a "toxon" or bow. Many people say this is a bow made of ribbon, but that doesn't fit the context of "conquering", and further, the septuagint uses this word to translate the Hebrew word "qehsheth", an archery bow. The root word for toxon is "tik-tow", which means "to bring forth, produce". It is also used to speak of a mother bringing forth a child. The purpose of a toxon or archery bow is to "bring forth" an arrow. The root word "tik-tow" is also the basis for our english word "technology" (or as my little sister used to pronounce it "tik-nology").



this is interesting
have not heard of tik-tow or bring forth
but
I like it
constantine did bring forth the first christian empire which was to last over 1000 years
and
that is something that should not be ignored

there is often more than one meaning for symbols
so
the bow could represent
bringing forth
as well as
a covenant with God

Truster
August 20th, 2014, 07:13 AM
the four horsemen


The rider of the white horse is Constantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) from the white sea

The rider of the red horse is Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) from the red sea, Antichrist

The rider of the black horse is Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx) from the black sea, communism

The rider of the pale horse is with us now

So you say Constantine did not come from the White Sea? This is true but did you know that even today the Turks refer to the Mediterranean Sea as the white sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea#cite_note-6)? It is a rough sea with what they call white caps, which makes it look white. Also did you know that bow in Genesis (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) means covenant? Constantine started the Christian empire that was to last over a thousand years (https://www.google.com/search?q=byzantine+empire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb). It would not have happened without divine intervention.

To be continued…….


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

John witnessed the seals being opened and the Horsemen riding out. None of those on you list were even born then.

chrysostom
August 20th, 2014, 07:30 AM
John witnessed the seals being opened and the Horsemen riding out. None of those on you list were even born then.

it was a vision of what is to come

JosephR
August 20th, 2014, 07:33 AM
when is concerning yourself with things to come become in place of what is?

chrysostom
August 20th, 2014, 07:39 AM
when is concerning yourself with things to come become in place of what is?

understanding the past
is
more useful
than
trying to predict the future

Truster
August 20th, 2014, 07:42 AM
it was a vision of what is to come

Those four horsemen rode out and the result of their riding out is apparent in every generation since and will be until the end of time.

False Prophet
August 20th, 2014, 08:04 AM
IN the Mahabharata the white sea is the sea of milk.

chrysostom
August 20th, 2014, 08:22 AM
Those four horsemen rode out and the result of their riding out is apparent in every generation since and will be until the end of time.

they didn't ride out at the same time

they just got them altogether for the picture

OCTOBER23
August 20th, 2014, 09:27 AM
chrysostom

Re 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

The White horse is a Religious base under a man who was crowned a Ruler by others

and the shape of a bow when it is plucked is a crescent moon = Islamic ANTICHRIST

Red horse is his WARS and Deaths starting after the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 year peace treaty made with him on October 23, 2014.

Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

chrysostom
August 20th, 2014, 09:56 AM
chrysostom

Re 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

The White horse is a Religious base under a man who was crowned a Ruler by others

and the shape of a bow when it is plucked is a crescent moon = Islamic ANTICHRIST

Red horse is his WARS and Deaths starting after the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 year peace treaty made with him on October 23, 2014.

Re 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

how do you make sense of the colors?

I have a sea color for three of them

BigBoof1959
August 22nd, 2014, 09:13 AM
The rider on the white horse "goes forth conquering, that he might overcome". How does the activity of "conquering" square with seeing the "bow" as the rainbow, which was a sign of God's pledge to restrain from wiping all flesh from the earth with another flood? This rider does something actively, he "goes forth". That sounds a little different than a promise to not do something (destroy all flesh) The form of the verb "nikon" (conquering) is a present active participle. The second occurrence of this verb in the verse (nik-ees-ee) is in the subjunctive mood, which indicates potentiality, but not certainty. The final "overcoming" or "conquering" that this rider seeks is conditional on something else taking place. If the bow is the rainbow and the promise it signifies in Genesis 9:13, then that covenant which God made with Noah and his sons would be conditional also. But it was not given that way.

chrysostom
August 22nd, 2014, 09:34 AM
The rider on the white horse "goes forth conquering, that he might overcome". How does the activity of "conquering" square with seeing the "bow" as the rainbow, which was a sign of God's pledge to restrain from wiping all flesh from the earth with another flood? This rider does something actively, he "goes forth". That sounds a little different than a promise to not do something (destroy all flesh) The form of the verb "nikon" (conquering) is a present active participle. The second occurrence of this verb in the verse (nik-ees-ee) is in the subjunctive mood, which indicates potentiality, but not certainty. The final "overcoming" or "conquering" that this rider seeks is conditional on something else taking place. If the bow is the rainbow and the promise it signifies in Genesis 9:13, then that covenant which God made with Noah and his sons would be conditional also. But it was not given that way.

constantine started a christian empire that would last a thousand years
how does that happen without divine intervention?

Skybringr
August 22nd, 2014, 02:22 PM
I just read n entire book, front to back, called "Behold, A Pale Horse".

It's about a grand conspiracy going on all over the world, which is *drumroll* the Pale Horse incarnate.

There are some things in it that is openly admitted as speculation, some perhaps even far fetched, but it's a very interesting revelation and insight. I highly recommend it :thumb:

BigBoof1959
August 22nd, 2014, 03:32 PM
I don't think God is interested in taking any credit for what Constantine started, or for how long it continued. The bow in the first rider's hand is an archery bow, and this horseman is associated with the other three. The parables Jesus spoke about leaven spreading through the kingdom of God, and about the mustard plant growing so abnormally huge that the birds of heaven could nest in it are given the same positive spin by catholic teaching that is being proposed for this white horseman, even though the symbols of leaven and "the birds of heaven" in scripture are both used in a negative sense in the overwhelming majority of cases.

northwye
August 22nd, 2014, 04:33 PM
Behold A Pale horse is by William Cooper. He has at least one chapter on the international ruling elite, often called the Illuminati. Cooper had some understanding of the role of the ruling elite and also of Marxism co-opted by them. He seemed to know that the Pale Horse, the last of the four, whose rider is Death and Hell follows after, is a metaphor for our time now. I am not sure whether Cooper saw that the pale horse with Death as its rider incorporates within itself the previous three horses, the white, red and black horses. But having been in Navy Intelligence he should have known about the United States following the end of World War II bringing in the top Nazi intelligence operatives to help form the new CIA, and Operation Paperclip in which Nazi German scientists, technicians, and engineers were brought to the United States for employment. This was a kind of incorporation of the Black Horse regime of Nazi Germany into the U.S. National Security State, beginning in the 1947 act.

Cooper might have known about the forms of non-Bolshevik Marxism that got going in the U.S. ,the Frankfurt School on the Left and what is called Neo-Conservatism on the Right, from the City College of New York 1930's group of Marxists. The Neo-cons were prevalent in the administration of George W. Bush.

Maybe he did see the Red Horse as Marxism and as the Old Soviet Union. Often on his broadcasts when someone called in to try to argue with what Cooper was teaching he would call them "Baby Marxists." I think what he meant was that trying to argue with what he was presenting was using the Marxist dialectic, that is, trying to undermine and compromise the truth and morality.

The White Horse, seen as the British Empire and also as colonialism, and usury banking, was earlier incorporated into the U.S. which later became the Pale Horse as the National Security State.

chrysostom
August 22nd, 2014, 04:58 PM
I don't think God is interested in taking any credit for what Constantine started, ...

so this guy comes along
starts a christian empire that lasts 1000 years
and
you think that can happen without divine intervention?

do you realize that you would now be reading the koran
if
that had not happened?

Robert_1965
August 22nd, 2014, 05:01 PM
I don't think God is interested in taking any credit for what Constantine started, or for how long it continued. The bow in the first rider's hand is an archery bow, and this horseman is associated with the other three. The parables Jesus spoke about leaven spreading through the kingdom of God, and about the mustard plant growing so abnormally huge that the birds of heaven could nest in it are given the same positive spin by catholic teaching that is being proposed for this white horseman, even though the symbols of leaven and "the birds of heaven" in scripture are both used in a negative sense in the overwhelming majority of cases.
How do you know the bow in the first rider's hand is an archery bow?

chrysostom
August 23rd, 2014, 07:27 AM
The bow in the first rider's hand is an archery bow,


How do you know the bow in the first rider's hand is an archery bow?

he saw the picture (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Apocalypse_vasnetsov.jpg)

BigBoof1959
August 23rd, 2014, 08:04 AM
The rise and spread of Islam was to test and discipline a church that had sunk to using the world's methods. As for why I see the bow as an archery bow, it fits the context of the passage far better than seeing it as a rainbow. In Genesis. the rainbow is a sign of God promising not to wipe out mankind with another flood. In Revelation none of the horsemen are carrying flood waters. And if this white horseman is really carrying the sign of Noah's covenant, then he is slowly losing ground throughout the book, not conquering, as the severity of the plagues and the percentage of mankind dying in them goes up. Another thing to note, the horse is usually related to warfare in scripture, not to protection.

northwye
August 23rd, 2014, 10:16 AM
The historicist interpretation of the Book of Revelation does not fully follow Revelation 1: 1, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

Taking "things which must shortly come to pass" as literally meaning events which took place soon after John wrote leads to interpretations which are history but have little relevance to our time, such as saying that Constantine is one of the Four Horses of Revelation 6: 1-8. Interpreting the white horse as the British Empire might also be seen as history. Yet England still exists, and if you see the pale horse as the U.S., under the national security state, it was influenced by England, and so this is still prophecy.

A major problem with the historicist interpretation of Revelation is that it leads to endless speculation and subjectivity in its interpretations. There are many nations and important individuals in history and picking some of them for the Four Horses is arbitrary and subjective.

A system of interpretation of the Four Horses of Revelation 6: 1-8 has to make use of other scripture rather than subjective interpretations from speculation or from some tradition of men like dispensationalism.

Revelation 13: 2 mentions three of the four world empires of Daniel 7: 4-7. The implication is that the fourth empire of Daniel 7: 7 which is the beast government that rises up out of the sea, or one of its heads, the United States as the national security state, not as it was originally as a constitutional republic, has the traits of the lion, the leopard, the bear and the lion of Revelation 13: 2. This is still prophecy for our time, which explains not only what has already happened but the prophecy's total fulfillment is still future.

Rising up out of the sea can have metaphoric meanings other than the fact of history that England rose to power as an empire due to its navy. The Russians were also a sea power though never as powerful as the British, and the same for Germany.

The white, red, and black houses are color coded. They arise in succession as is shown in Daniel 7: 4-7. In fact, Daniel 7 6 says "After this I beheld, and lo, another like a leopard...." implying a succession of beast empires.

And contrary to a lot of church teaching the four beast empires of Daniel 7 are not the same as those of Daniel 2, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Roma, which are pre-Cross empires. The four beast empires in Daniel 7 are after the Cross and continue into our time. Though the British empire is not what it was during World War II, yet England still exists. So the Red Horse Marxist Soviet no longer exists, but Russia does. The same for Germany after its empire was defeated in 1945.

Fiat Tenebris
August 23rd, 2014, 10:45 AM
Marx! Hahaha! Maybe you should try reading his work first.

chrysostom
August 23rd, 2014, 01:01 PM
The rise and spread of Islam was to test and discipline a church that had sunk to using the world's methods. As for why I see the bow as an archery bow, it fits the context of the passage far better than seeing it as a rainbow. In Genesis. the rainbow is a sign of God promising not to wipe out mankind with another flood. In Revelation none of the horsemen are carrying flood waters. And if this white horseman is really carrying the sign of Noah's covenant, then he is slowly losing ground throughout the book, not conquering, as the severity of the plagues and the percentage of mankind dying in them goes up. Another thing to note, the horse is usually related to warfare in scripture, not to protection.

it looks like you are saying all covenants are a promise not to do another flood

I don't think so

chrysostom
August 23rd, 2014, 01:07 PM
A major problem with the historicist interpretation of Revelation is that it leads to endless speculation and subjectivity in its interpretations. There are many nations and important individuals in history and picking some of them for the Four Horses is arbitrary and subjective.

not so

they are very consistent with the byzantine empire being the thousand years

the white horse, a christian empire
is
replaced by the red horse, islamic empire
which
is ended by the black horse, communism

BigBoof1959
August 24th, 2014, 08:35 AM
it looks like you are saying all covenants are a promise not to do another flood

I don't think so

That is not what I am saying at all. I am saying that the covenant signified by the bow which you claim is in the hand of the white horseman, is a covenant to not destroy all flesh with the waters of another flood. Read Genesis 9:11 & 15. If you want to broaden the scope of that covenant to include a so-called Christian Empire, then I guess scripture can be made to say pretty much whatever you want it to.

chrysostom
August 24th, 2014, 07:52 PM
If you want to broaden the scope of that covenant to include a so-called Christian Empire, then I guess scripture can be made to say pretty much whatever you want it to.

don't want to broaden the scope of the covenant given to noah
don't need to
the covenant given to constantine is a different one
and
it doesn't have anything to do with flooding

Sealeaf
August 25th, 2014, 04:03 AM
In my view, scriptures are generally very accurate when they discribe actual events witnessed by real, named, individuals. They immediately become suspect when the authors start telling what those events ment. That is, when interpatations are given.

Interpatations can be quite subtle. Example: Noah's flood, the witness is Noah or one of the other people on the Arc. That person says "the waters covered the whole earth", how does he know? In reality all he could have observed is that he was out of sight of land. I find nothing unbelievable in that. Ten or fifteen miles of open water will put you out of sight of land. When someone else interpates that to mean that even the highest mountains in the world were covered in water, montains that Noah had no knowledge of. I find that idea very suspect.

What then can be said of a prophetic dream? I absolutely believe the author when he discribes his dream. I am less sure when he tells me what his dream ment. I am much less sure when any third party tells me what a prophet's dream ment.

There is a caviat: Dreams are symbolic representations of problems the dreamer experiences in his own waking life. The symbols are chosen by his subconcious mind to be opaque to him. They sometimes are very clear, embarassingly so, to another person. I will illustrate this: A certain college student, learning my profession, I am a psychiatric professional, told me of her very troubling recurring dream. She had it every time she was facing exams. She dreamt she was struggling to swim against the current in a river of yellow water while having to dodge large brown lumps that were coming at her carried by the current. I'm sure the symbolism is painfully clear to everyone but it was not to her. (true story).

chrysostom
August 25th, 2014, 07:37 AM
the four horsemen


The rider of the white horse is Constantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) from the white sea

The rider of the red horse is Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) from the red sea, Antichrist

The rider of the black horse is Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx) from the black sea, communism

The rider of the pale horse is with us now

So you say Constantine did not come from the White Sea? This is true but did you know that even today the Turks refer to the Mediterranean Sea as the white sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea#cite_note-6)? It is a rough sea with what they call white caps, which makes it look white. Also did you know that bow in Genesis (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) means covenant? Constantine started the Christian empire that was to last over a thousand years (https://www.google.com/search?q=byzantine+empire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb). It would not have happened without divine intervention.

To be continued…….


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

the colors are significant
but
not yellow and brown

BigBoof1959
August 25th, 2014, 08:40 AM
The Lord never promised to make the world safe for Christians. He promised them persecution and tribulation in the world. Constantine made Christianity safe for the world, not the other way around.

chrysostom
August 25th, 2014, 11:19 AM
The Lord never promised to make the world safe for Christians. He promised them persecution and tribulation in the world. Constantine made Christianity safe for the world, not the other way around.

did you read what eusebius wrote about constantine?
it sounded like the second coming

chrysostom
September 7th, 2014, 04:29 AM
you have to make sense of the colors
and
it is hard to ignore the red sea in the south
and
the black sea in the north

chrysostom
September 30th, 2014, 05:07 AM
so why do they hate constantine?
who
must be the third most significant person of all time

chrysostom
October 17th, 2014, 02:10 AM
most pictures of the four horsemen have the rider of the white horse carrying a bow and arrow
but
this picture has it right (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ottheinrich_Folio288r_Rev6A.jpg)
the rider of the white horse is carrying a rainbow
in genesis 9:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) bow means rainbow and a covenant


identifying the four horsemen is not possible
if
you don't get the bow right

most see it as a bow and arrow
and
a quick search of the old testament will show that it is a rainbow

chrysostom
November 5th, 2014, 04:52 AM
constantine the rider of the white horse had a bow, a covenant
he started a christian empire that would last one thousand years
and
it protected rome and europe

JosephR
November 19th, 2014, 05:58 AM
And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer. Rev 6:2
I heard that this was supposed to be the antichrist, but he is left out until Rev 12.

And another horse came forth, a red horse: and to him that sat thereon it was given to take peace from the earth, and that they should slay one another: and there was given unto him a great sword Rev 6:4

The world has not know peace. So this is why some say that the rider of the first horse is the antichrist. The antichrist appears and gives the world peace, then the rider on the red horse takes away the peace that the world has enjoyed for a brief time.

And I saw, and behold, a black horse; and he that sat thereon had a balance in his hand. 6And I heard as it were a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, A measure of wheat for a shilling, and three measures of barley for a shilling; and the oil and the wine hurt thou not. Rev 6:5

The black horse is for economic hardship and famine on an unprecedented scale. A shilling was supposed to be a day's wages. A meal would cost you a day's work.

a pale horse: and he that sat upon him, his name was Death; and Hades followed with him. And there was given unto them authority over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with famine, and with death, and by the wild beasts of the earth. Rev 6:8

The pale horse is named death, and a quarter of the earth's population will be destroyed by this horse. So we have the four horseman. We can make this book say anything. It is written in parables and visions, so anyone can be a prophet making wild interpretations about a book of parables and visions.

do you think any man earns more in a day then what sustains them?

JosephR
November 19th, 2014, 05:59 AM
identifying the four horsemen is not possible
if
you don't get the bow right

most see it as a bow and arrow
and
a quick search of the old testament will show that it is a rainbow

could the bow be the sign of the end with fire, the sign of the promise to Noah and all man....

chrysostom
November 19th, 2014, 06:05 AM
could the bow be the sign of the end with fire, the sign of the promise to Noah and all man....

the bow is a covenant
an agreement
a promise
a contract

a good thing

JosephR
November 19th, 2014, 06:07 AM
the bow is a covenant
an agreement
a promise
a contract

a good thing


yeah I said that right? the covenant that God would not ever again kill the Earth with water...thats what the bow is for..

chrysostom
November 19th, 2014, 06:08 AM
yeah I said that right? the covenant that God would not ever again kill the Earth with water...thats what the bow is for..

so why do you think the rider of the white horse has a bow?

JosephR
November 19th, 2014, 06:09 AM
so why do you think the rider of the white horse has a bow?

because He comes with fire... God keeps His promise.

chrysostom
November 19th, 2014, 06:18 AM
because He comes with fire... God keeps His promise.

so why does he come before the rider of the red horse?

JosephR
November 19th, 2014, 06:20 AM
so why does he come before the rider of the red horse?

I am asking the questions here :)

I dont know... I dont really concern myself with future events..so I havent studied them,,just asking questions is all.

chrysostom
November 20th, 2014, 04:27 AM
I am asking the questions here :)

I dont know... I dont really concern myself with future events..so I havent studied them,,just asking questions is all.

and that is a good thing

Arsenios
December 26th, 2014, 12:44 PM
The world has not know peace.

Nor should it, if we desire salvation...




who is responsible for that?

islam is in first place


Then God Bless Islam...

For they are giving up their Salvation...

In order that we should find ours...

In the Tribulation(s) that lead to Salvation...

Following Christ

Even to His Tribulation on the Holy Cross...

Arsenios

chrysostom
December 26th, 2014, 12:57 PM
Nor should it, if we desire salvation...



Then God Bless Islam...

For they are giving up their Salvation...

In order that we should find ours...

In the Tribulation(s) that lead to it...

Following Christ

Even His Tribulation on the Holy Cross...

Arsenios

how is that working for christians in the east?

can you find a bible?
can you find a church?

do you wait around for someone to bring you one?
or
is it your job to spread the gospel?

WonderfulLordJesus
December 26th, 2014, 12:59 PM
Who are the four horsemen of the first four seals?

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

The rider on the white horse is the antichrist, who would imitate the Lord Jesus Christ, but is all about militancy. He is full of pomp and a warrior, set on conquest. "Anti" not only means against, but instead of. Antichrist is the devil's false messiah, the devil's counterfeit.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

The world will receive the antichrist as a hero, riding in on a white horse. The antichrist will be crafty, will have people believing he's brought world peace, and he will be revered by people.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

He's Satan's master man, all evil dictators, rolled up in one. The red horse is murderous conflicts, war, red the color of blood, and the real chaos ensues as a result of a spirit of hatred, which will have peoples killing each other. The evil of antichrist will result in evil in the world, as night follows day, hatred in men's depraved hearts.

Revelation 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Hatred will be unrestrained. The tribulation conflicts will not only be among nations, but within peoples,

Ezekiel 38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

In the tribulation, crops will become meager, and there will be rationing.

Revelation 6:5 ...And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. [6] And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

The penny is not a small copper penny, but a denarius, a normal day's wages for a laboring man of John's day. There will be economic deprivation, as war will cripple healthy economies. It will be a very bad time, difficult to even take care of one's children,

Mark 13:17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

The "pale" of the pale horse is the Greek word "chloros", which is the eerie greenish-grey color of death.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

This would mean, if there are 6 billion people on the earth, about 1 1/2 billion people dead. This is death resulting from the sins of the antichrist, which lead to war, which lead to famine, and, ultimately, death, a chain reaction: sin causes hatred, hatred causes war and bloodshed, war brings famine, famine produces death, and, after death, comes hell and the judgement. Often, the aftermath of war brings more death, by famine and disease, and we have biological warfare. Also, one of the most destructive creatures on earth is the rat, a menace to human health and food supplies, a nasty creature coming in over 100 species, producing five or more litters of 8-10 new rats per year, over one billion dollars in food lost in the U.S. due to rats per year, their fleas carrying bubonic plague, which destroyed 1/3 the population of Europe in the 14th century, and typhus killing an estimated 200 million people in four centuries, this disease also carried by rat fleas.

Arsenios
December 26th, 2014, 01:03 PM
how is that working for christians in the east?


It has been working there for us for 2000 years...


can you find a bible?

Only, I suspect, in the Churches, in Islamic countries...


can you find a church?

The church is persecuted and poor, like the one in Revelation...


do you wait around for someone to bring you one?

We live in the ones we can find...

Sometimes underground...


or
is it your job to spread the gospel?

It is our job to keep the Faith of Christ...

In the midst of persecutions...

And find the Peace of Christ...

Which surpasses all understanding...

Arsenios

chrysostom
May 22nd, 2015, 05:10 AM
Revelation 4:7New International Version (NIV)

7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle.

each of the four horsemen were introduced by a living creature

lion = God
constantine the rider of the white horse with a bow, a covenant with God, makes world safe for christians

ox = beast
mohammed the rider of the red horse with a sword
christians are no longer safe

man = man
marx the rider of the black horse
religion is no longer safe

flying eagle = ?
death is the rider of the pale horse
no one is safe

northwye
May 22nd, 2015, 07:04 AM
Daniel 7: 4-7 and the description of the first beast of Revelation 13: 2, help in understanding the four horses and riders of Revelation 6: 1-7. The four horses and riders are a quartet, and all four fit some type or category. You can't mix the dispensationalist one man anti-Christ, with Constantine, and then famine and Marx. Following Daniel 7: 4-7 and Revelation 13: 2 the four riders and horses are world empires, or political ideologies, weltanschauungs, world views, epistemologies - like colonialism, capitalism, the world under usury banking, Marxism, fascism or some mix of these.

Isaiah 28: 10 tells us how to interpret scripture, especially metaphoric scripture like Revelation 6: 1-7 - "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line; here a little and there a little." Revelation 6: 1-7 cannot be understood by using one's own opinion. This is how we get a mix of Marx, Constantine, the anti-Christ, and who knows who or what else.

The four horses and riders appear in modern historical times - beginning at about the time of the rise of the British empire and diminishing of the power of the Spanish Catholic empire. This is an inference from the identity of the lion empire of Daniel 7: 4, which first had eagle's wings, but they were plucked off. The white horse is colonialism, and also at this time in England usury banking began on a large scale to exert an influence upon the world. But - Daniel 7:4 says this lion empire had a man's heart, which means it had some Christian morality.

The four horses are color coded and white for the British lion empire fits - white wigs, etc, In Daniel 7: 5 the next empire if that of the bear, or the Soviet Union, and the red horse can be said to be Marxism. The leopard empire coming next is the black horse of German fascism or the Nazis. And the fourth empire in Daniel 7:7 is a combination of the three previous world empires. And in Revelation 6:8 this is the pale horse, and Death rides this horse while Hell follows after.

In a sense, the fourth horse, a combination of the British, Russian Soviet Union and German fascism ideologies is thought to ride before and during the tribulation, though we do not know how long the tribulation period is to last or exactly how to know when it begins. We may now be in the early stages of it.

False Prophet
May 22nd, 2015, 08:31 AM
[2] And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Rev 6
The good guy is supposed to ride the white horse. That is why Jesus Christ is pictured on the white horse. Satan is cast out of heaven with his angelic host, and woe to those on the earth; because Satan comes down in great fury, knowing that his time is short.

chrysostom
May 22nd, 2015, 08:56 AM
white horse
constantine started the byzantine empire
a christian empire that lasted 1000 year
and it was
replaced by
the ottoman empire started by the rider of the red horse
replaced by
the russian empire started by the rider of the black horse

the two biggest threats to christianity are
islam
and
communism

northwye
May 22nd, 2015, 09:33 AM
Are the comments about the four horses and riders of Revelation 6 posted here coming from dispensationalist views? There are a few Reformed people on TOL, but maybe they have not posted here. To dispensationalists, there is no remnant. There is, in fact, no remnant of the Capital C Church. But there is a remnant, and its the remnant which is seen in Revelation 12: 17 - which "have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

chrysostom
May 22nd, 2015, 09:38 AM
Are the comments about the four horses and riders of Revelation 6 posted here coming from dispensationalist views?

do you see any mad people here?

they have put it all into the future

is that not your understanding?

northwye
May 22nd, 2015, 10:14 AM
The prophecy in Daniel 7: 4-7 and in Revelation 13: 2 is for the period of time after the Cross, and the lion empire of Daniel 7: 4 implies this time period begins with the rise of the British Empire after the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. The prophecy is for now and the immediate future.

With its literalist system of interpretation dispensationalism does not understand such a prophecy which began to be fulfilled after 1588 and is ongoing in 2015. Such a prophecy does not fit in with the dispensationist idea that end time prophecy begins to be fulfilled at the start of their tribulation and the appearance of their one man anti-Christ figure.

chrysostom
May 22nd, 2015, 10:19 AM
The prophecy in Daniel 7: 4-7 and in Revelation 13: 2 is for the period of time after the Cross, and the lion empire of Daniel 7: 4 implies this time period begins with the rise of the British Empire after the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588. The prophecy is for now and the immediate future.

With its literalist system of interpretation dispensationalism does not understand such a prophecy which began to be fulfilled after 1588 and is ongoing in 2015. Such a prophecy does not fit in with the dispensationist idea that end time prophecy begins to be fulfilled at the start of their tribulation and the appearance of their one man anti-Christ figure.

when it comes to an antichrist
how do you top mohammed?
and
when it comes to a beast
how do you top islam?

chrysostom
May 22nd, 2015, 10:41 AM
in another thread
I show how the last two beasts of daniel
are
the two beasts of the apocalypse

chrysostom
May 22nd, 2015, 10:46 AM
during the seventh century
many could see that they were looking at the fourth beast of daniel
it was different from all the former beasts
it is still with us today

Anto9us
May 22nd, 2015, 11:02 AM
Out of five pages of posts -- it was good to see at least ONE that gave credit for the original 4 horses/riders to Zechariah

However -- that is THE PROPHET ZECHARIAH

centuries earlier than the Zechariah who was "father of John the Baptist"

NO SAME-SAME by a long sight...

...

And how do you know the "BOW" is either an archery bow or a rainbow?

Maybe it's a "fiddle bow" !!

which would make as much sense as anything posted in these 5 pages of threads.

chrysostom
May 22nd, 2015, 11:08 AM
Out of five pages of posts -- it was good to see at least ONE that gave credit for the original 4 horses/riders to Zechariah

However -- that is THE PROPHET ZECHARIAH

centuries earlier than the Zechariah who was "father of John the Baptist"

NO SAME-SAME by a long sight...

...

And how do you know the "BOW" is either an archery bow or a rainbow?

Maybe it's a "fiddle bow" !!

which would make as much sense as anything posted in these 5 pages of threads.

Genesis 9:13King James Version (KJV)

13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

Anto9us
May 22nd, 2015, 11:19 AM
well, ya git down yer fiddle and ya git down yer bow
ya kick off yer shoes and ya thoe 'em on the flo
15 kids in the front porch light
Louisiana Saturday Night




"Zechariah Bible Quiz"



Zechariah -- in the Bible -- was

a. A Prophet from the 'return from exile' period
(whose original 4 horses/riders were only one color off from those in Revelation)

b. a priest who got murdered right at the altar

c. the father of John the Baptist - who got struck dumb fer a spell

d. all of the above




the correct answer is "d"

Anto9us
May 22nd, 2015, 11:35 AM
As far as Daniel's 4 empires -- it is greatly disputed among Bible scholars if it should be:


1. Babylon

2. Medes

3. Persian

4. Greece under Alexander


-- or --



1. Babylon

2. "Medo-Persian Empire" - this is sticky - 2 horns but one beast

3. Greece under Alexander

4. Rome



It is also greatly disputed among Bible scholars whether "Daniel" was A REAL GUY AT ALL living in the exile -- most modern scholars think the whole work of Daniel was written during the Macabbean period -- centuries AFTER the events it describes, and was full of EX EVENTU prophecy

and that the writer knew nothing historically past Antiochus Epiphanes, one of the Seleucid Greeks

Daniel was one of the "Writings" in the Hebrew classification of scripture, was NOT part of "THE PROPHETS"

That Jesus alludes to "Daniel the Prophet" in Olivet Discourse might be taken to me referring to PAUL BUNYAN at a lumberjack contest I went to

"Yeah - the guy that won the wood-choppin contest was A REAL PAUL BUNYAN !!""

People would UNDERSTAND what I was conveying (the winning lumberjack was A BIG GUY)

but no one would assume that I was actually propounding belief in a giant lumberjack with a Big Blue Ox who was taller than 2 and a half men

"Daniel" was a character in a story -- more than likely based on a Ugaritic hero "Dan'el"

In Ezekiel, "Daniel" is listed alongside non-Jewish heroes of old like Noah and Job

If we are talking historical period of Babylonian exile -- "Daniel" would have been one of Ezekiel's CONTEMPORARIES !!

Not an "ancient worthy" like Job or Noah

CherubRam
May 22nd, 2015, 11:37 AM
Out of five pages of posts -- it was good to see at least ONE that gave credit for the original 4 horses/riders to Zechariah

However -- that is THE PROPHET ZECHARIAH

centuries earlier than the Zechariah who was "father of John the Baptist"

NO SAME-SAME by a long sight...

...

And how do you know the "BOW" is either an archery bow or a rainbow?

Maybe it's a "fiddle bow" !!

which would make as much sense as anything posted in these 5 pages of threads.
The "bow" is parabolic for action. The crown is a crown of life. That means the person is a Christian. A white horse is parabolic for victor. "Conquering, and to conquer" means the person has a mission and purpose.


Revelation 6:2
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.





Job 30:11
Now that God has unstrung my bow and afflicted me, they throw off restraint in my presence.

Psalm 7:12
If he does not relent, he will sharpen his sword; he will bend and string his bow.

Jeremiah 9:3
"They make ready their tongue like a bow, to shoot lies; it is not by truth that they triumph in the land.

Lamentations 2:4
Like an enemy he has strung his bow; his right hand is ready.

Habakkuk 3:9
You uncovered your bow, you called for many arrows.

chrysostom
May 22nd, 2015, 11:49 AM
The "bow" is parabolic for action. The crown is a crown of life. That means the person is a Christian. A white horse is parabolic for victor. "Conquering, and to conquer" means the person has a mission and purpose.


so who do you think it is?
and
how can you identify the one
without
identifying the others?

CherubRam
May 22nd, 2015, 12:00 PM
so who do you think it is?
and
how can you identify the one
without
identifying the others?

It's Michael. Michael comes first, then the Two Witnesses, then the man who Christ appoints as a Morning Star.

serpentdove
May 22nd, 2015, 12:00 PM
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/m/listening-emoticon-white-background-40231583.jpg

Recommended reading:

Approaching Hoofbeats: The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (http://www.amazon.com/Approaching-Hoofbeats-Four-Horsemen-Apocalypse/dp/0849903580) by Billy Graham

northwye
May 22nd, 2015, 06:18 PM
What is the basis for claiming that the four empires of Daniel 7 are the same as those of Daniel 2? Why would Daniel repeat the prophecy of Daniel 2 in Daniel 7? What tradition of men would not be consistent with the Daniel 7: 4-7 beast empires being after the Cross and not before it? John Gill interprets the four beast kingdoms in Daniel 7 as the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, and Roman empires. Gill does not explain why the Daniel 7 beast empires as the same as those of Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2. Gill just says "Daniel had a dream: as Nebuchadnezzar before had, concerning the same things, the four monarchies of the world, and the kingdom of Christ, only represented in a different manner: or, "saw a dream"F26; in his dream he had a vision, and objects were presented to his fancy as if he really saw them, as follows: "

"Jerome identified the four kingdoms analogously with the interpretation of the prophecy of Daniel 2, in a diachronic system. In the first kingdom, symbolized by the lion, he saw the Neo-Babylonian empire. He identified the bear with the Persian kingdom, the leopard with the Macedonian rule, and the fourth beast with the Roman empire.", Fröhlich, "Time and times and half a time: Historical Consciousness in the Jewish Literature of the Persian and Hellenistic Eras', JSP Supplements, pp. 71-72 (1996)."

Before I get to the role of Revelation 13: 2 in the determination of whether the four beast empires in Daniel 7 are before the Cross or after the Cross, I want to say that an Internet search turns up sites which say that the empires of Daniel 7 are after the Cross.

See: http://watch.pair.com/brit-empire.html

"Daniel 2:32-42 describes the Babylonian, Persian, Greek and Roman empires. Daniel 2:38 states that the head of gold of Nebuchadnezzar's image was the existing Babylonian Empire. "O king...Thou art this head of gold."

In Daniel 7, all of the world empires portrayed by symbolic beasts are future empires - from Daniel's perspective. According to verse 17: "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth."

Whereas Daniel 2 identifies one existing (the Babylonian) and three future empires, Daniel 7:3-6 must refer to four future world empires:

"And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse from one another. The first was like a LION, and had EAGLE'S wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made to stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a BEAR, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a LEOPARD, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it."

"Nazi Germany was known for its Panzer (Panther or Leopard) divisions in World War II, and the symbol of Communist Russia is the Bear which has "devoured much flesh." The Royal Arms of England displays the Unicorn and Rampant Lion, which is "made to stand upon the feet as a man."

Three of the four beast empires of Daniel 7 are found as the composite beast of Revelation 13:1,2 which John saw rising out of the sea. This is Revelation 13: 1-2 "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

In Daniel 7: 4-6 the sequence of beast empires is the lion, the bear and the leopard. Revelation 13: 2 in describing the first beast as a composite of the first three beasts of Daniel 7: 4-6 is focusing on the fourth beast of Daniel 7: 7 the beast said to be dreadful and terrible and strong exceedingly. Revelation 13: 2 is showing that the first beast is a composite one made up of the traits of the three earlier beast empires.

Only within the historicist interpretation of the Book of Revelation could the fourth dreadful and terrible beast as Rome, the fourth empire of Daniel 2, be said to have the traits of the three earlier empires, the lion as Babylon, the bear as Persia and the leopard as Greece.

But if the Book of Revelation at the time it was written is a prophecy for the future, then the revealing that the first beast of Revelation 13 has the traits of the three previous empires after the Cross, which are the British, Russian Communist and German Nazi fascist empires puts the Lion, Bear and Leopard empires in the timeline after the Cross. In the futurist interpretation of Revelation 13, the revelation that the first three beast empires in Daniel 7 are part of the first beast shows that in the Book of Revelation Daniel's four beast empires are after the Cross of Christ, not before it.

The fourth beast of Daniel 7: 7, dreadful and terrible, is to exist after the Cross as the first beast of Revelation 13, though Revelation 13: 3 says one head of this beast that was wounded to death had its deadly wound healed, meaning that, again, the first beast is a composite. It is true that there are some parallel traits between this post-Cross empire described in Revelation 13: 1-2 and Rome. But this does not mean that the fourth beast of Daniel 7: 7 is Rome. There are also some ways in which the post-Cross bear empire as the old Soviet Union is like the Persian empire and some similarities can be found between Hitler's Nazi empire and that of Alexander the Great's Greek empire. The British empire has a few traits in common to the Babylonian empire.

Anto9us
May 22nd, 2015, 06:27 PM
man, I have heard everything now.

Daniel ch 2 empires no same-same as Daniel 7 empires...

uh huh

sure.

and down is up -- and sideways is straight ahead

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 05:03 AM
What is the basis for claiming that the four empires of Daniel 7 are the same as those of Daniel 2?

just search the bible for ten horns (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=ten+horns&qs_version=KJV)
and
you will see the fourth beast of daniel
and
the second beast of the apocalypse
both
have ten horns
and
yes there is more

I have identified the ten horns as the ten dynasties of islam
and
I have identified the seven heads as the seven dynasties of the roman empire

CherubRam
May 23rd, 2015, 05:21 AM
just search the bible for ten horns (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=ten+horns&qs_version=KJV)
and
you will see the fourth beast of daniel
and
the second beast of the apocalypse
both
have ten horns
and
yes there is more

I have identified the ten horns as the ten dynasties of islam
and
I have identified the seven heads as the seven dynasties of the roman empire

List of Sunni Muslim dynasties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sunni_Muslim_dynasties

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 05:27 AM
the ten dynasties of islam (http://islamicart.com/library/history/index.html)

please note that the last one ended the thousand year christian empire

CherubRam
May 23rd, 2015, 05:45 AM
the ten dynasties of islam (http://islamicart.com/library/history/index.html)

please note that the last one ended the thousand year christian empire

Your link is worthless. Besides that, I am not aware of Islam putting an end to Christianity.

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 05:49 AM
Your link is worthless. Besides that, I am not aware of Islam putting an end to Christianity.

history shows that in 1453
the thousand year christian empire, the byzantine empire, ended
and
it was the ottoman empire, an islamic empire, that ended it

would you like some links with that?

CherubRam
May 23rd, 2015, 06:02 AM
history shows that in 1453
the thousand year christian empire, the byzantine empire, ended
and
it was the ottoman empire, an islamic empire, that ended it

would you like some links with that?

Does a corner of the world count as the whole world? So the people in that region changed from Pagan polytheism to Pagan monotheism. Allah has always been a Pagan god.

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 06:05 AM
Does a corner of the world count as the whole world? So the people in that region changed from Pagan polytheism to Pagan monotheism. Allah has always been a Pagan god.

when you hear about a thousand year christian empire
pay attention

northwye
May 23rd, 2015, 06:36 AM
The four horses and riders of Revelation 6: 2-8 represent military powers which conquer, with the implication being that the four horses and riders also control and oppress people, to cause them suffering. The fourth horse and rider, the pale horse, is said to have Death as its rider and Hell follows after. It may bring the most oppression and suffering. A progression in the oppression of people in the unfolding over time of the four horses and riders can be seen.

Revelation 6: 2: "he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

Revelation 6: 4: "and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

Revelation 6: 5-6: "And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand...... A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."

Revelation 6: 8: "behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

The quoted text above for the black horse sounds like poverty and famine, which is an outcome of war, control and oppression by military power.

What the four horses and riders of Revelation 6: 2-8 have in common is military force, killing of people, and conquering with the implication also of control over people, oppression and suffering. This points to governments or empires of man, not to individual men, and not to the supposed one man anti-Christ figure. So, the prophecies in Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 on four empires before the Cross and four empires after the Cross would fit the character of the four horses and riders.

iamaberean
May 23rd, 2015, 06:38 AM
when you hear about a thousand year christian empire
pay attention

Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

We, Christians, are the children of Israel.

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

We are the church.

We live in the world without end today!

CherubRam
May 23rd, 2015, 06:42 AM
The four horses and riders of Revelation 6: 2-8 represent military powers which conquer, with the implication being that the four horses and riders also control and oppress people, to cause them suffering. The fourth horse and rider, the pale horse, is said to have Death as its rider and Hell follows after. It may bring the most oppression and suffering. A progression in the oppression of people in the unfolding over time of the four horses and riders can be seen.

Revelation 6: 2: "he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

Revelation 6: 4: "and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

Revelation 6: 5-6: "And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand...... A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."

Revelation 6: 8: "behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

The quoted text above for the black horse sounds like poverty and famine, which is an outcome of war, control and oppression by military power.

Military power, conquering, control and oThe four horses and riders of Revelation 6: 2-8 represent military powers which conquer, with the implication being that the four horses and riders also control and oppress people, to cause them suffering. The fourth horse and rider, the pale horse, is said to have Death as its rider and Hell follows after, it may bring the most oppression and suffering. There can be seen a progression in the oppression of people in the unfolding over time of the four horses and riders.

Revelation 6: 2: "he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

Revelation 6: 4: "and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

Revelation 6: 5-6: "And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand...... A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine."

Revelation 6: 8: "behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Revelation 6:4. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 06:55 AM
Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

We, Christians, are the children of Israel.

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

We are the church.

We live in the world without end today!

the church is not the kingdom
and
the kingdom is not the thousand years
and
Christ did not reign

northwye
May 23rd, 2015, 06:58 AM
The Islamic religion denies that Christ fully as God appeared in man's flesh. But the Islamic religion does not diminish or threaten to diminish the spiritual life given by Christ as does the teaching within Christianity that the Old Covenant was somehow not done away with (Hebrews 10: 9), and that Old Covenant Israel remains now a people of God alongside the church, a translation of ekklesia. Ekklesia means a meeting, assembly or congregation.

John Darby said that the "Church has sought to settle itself here, but it has no place on the earth... [Though] making a most constructive parenthesis, it forms no part of the regular order of God's earthly plans, but is merely an
interruption of them to give a fuller character and meaning to
them..."

John. N. Darby, 'The Character of Office in The Present Dispensation'
Collected Writings., Eccl. I, Vol. I, p. 94.

"Them" are all physical Israel. The church, for Darby, exists to "give
fuller character and meaning to all physical Israel."

"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323......Chafer was an early American dispensationalist who followed C.I. Scofield and Chafer founded Dallas Theological Seminary.

Charles C. Ryrie (born 1925) says:
"basic promise of Dispensationalism is two purposes of God expressed
in the formation of two peoples who maintain their distinction
throughout eternity." Charles C. Ryrie, Dispensationalism Today,1966, pp.44-45.

"Israel" in dispensationalism always means Old Covenant Israel and can mean no other Israel.

Islamic religion as ISIS does threaten the physical life of Christians, but Islam has not falsely been made into a people of God within Christianity, and so Christians are not deceived into following Islam as many Christians have been in following the multitude of Old Covenant Israel which rejected Christ and became anti-Christ, having the spirit of anti-Christ. A remnant of Old Covenant Israel accepted Christ while the multitude of Old Covenant Israel became anti-Christ which continues in Talmudic Judaism.

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 07:12 AM
The Islamic religion denies that Christ fully as God appeared in man's flesh. But the Islamic religion does not diminish or threaten to diminish the spiritual life given by Christ as does the teaching within Christianity that the Old Covenant was somehow not done away with (Hebrews 10: 9), and that Old Covenant Israel remains now a people of God alongside the church, a translation of ekklesia.

try looking for a christian in turkey
they are hard to find
and
it was no accident

northwye
May 23rd, 2015, 08:06 AM
Islamic religion as ISIS does threaten the physical life of Christians, but Islam has not falsely been made into a people of God within Christianity, and so Christians are not deceived into following Islam as many Christians have been in following the multitude of Old Covenant Israel which rejected Christ and became anti-Christ, having the spirit of anti-Christ. A remnant of Old Covenant Israel accepted Christ while the multitude of Old Covenant Israel became anti-Christ which continues in Talmudic Judaism.

Emphasis upon Islam as having the spirit of anti-Christ can be a defense against
seeing the multitude of Old Covenant Israel - which became Talmudic Judaism - as having the spirit of anti-Christ (I John 4: 3). That is, if we are made to look on Islam as having the spirit of anti-Christ, we might be less likely to see the majority of Old Covenant Israel as having that spirit of anti-Christ.

And - at the more political level of thinking - the rise of ISIS sets up a dialectic, or perceived opposition, between the traditional Christian nations and Islamic militant ISIS, which makes it more likely that the people of the traditional Christian nations will accept more control over them by the elites. And those elites of the traditional Christian nations are anti-Christian.

It is true that this dialectic set up as the opposition between the Christian nations and Islamic ISIS brings many to focus upon things of the flesh - preparing in the flesh to fight ISIS - and makes so called Christians less likely to realize what Paul was talking about in Colossians 1: 27, "Christ in you, the hope of glory." In this way the ISIS dialectic does threaten to diminish Christian spirituality, which has already been diminished by other means in the Capital C Churches.

"There is a remnant Body of Christ out there. God knows. Everything that can be shaken is being shaken. Will you stand in this evil day? " That hope of glory, Christ in you, is what enables you to stand in the evil day which is arriving.

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 01:40 PM
Islamic religion as ISIS does threaten the physical life of Christians, but Islam has not falsely been made into a people of God within Christianity, and so Christians are not deceived into following Islam as many Christians have been in following the multitude of Old Covenant Israel which rejected Christ and became anti-Christ, having the spirit of anti-Christ.

are you concerned about religious freedom?

aikido7
May 23rd, 2015, 01:43 PM
the four horsemen


The rider of the white horse is Constantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) from the white sea

The rider of the red horse is Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) from the red sea, Antichrist

The rider of the black horse is Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx) from the black sea, communism

The rider of the pale horse is with us now

So you say Constantine did not come from the White Sea? This is true but did you know that even today the Turks refer to the Mediterranean Sea as the white sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea#cite_note-6)? It is a rough sea with what they call white caps, which makes it look white. Also did you know that bow in Genesis (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) means covenant? Constantine started the Christian empire that was to last over a thousand years (https://www.google.com/search?q=byzantine+empire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb). It would not have happened without divine intervention.

To be continued…….


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

I knew fellow Christians years ago who were convinced the Four Horsemen were a metaphor for the Beatles.

Seriously.

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 01:47 PM
I knew fellow Christians years ago who were convinced the Four Horsemen were a metaphor for the Beatles.

Seriously.

and you needed to share that with us

seriously

Anto9us
May 23rd, 2015, 02:49 PM
"I knew fellow Christians years ago who were convinced the Four Horsemen were a metaphor for the Beatles."

And it was Pete Best - the ORIGINAL DRUMMER for the Beatles - who FIRST rode out on a white horse.

Angels called him BACK -- and Ringo went out on the White Horse later...

aikido7
May 23rd, 2015, 03:23 PM
and you needed to share that with us

seriously

Of course I don't think the Four Horsemen were the Beatles. I was sharing what some other Christians believed about Revelations.

I think I was aiming at the idea that the metaphoric and fantastic language of John of Patmos is so generalized that modern folks can plug in anything they want to help it make sense to them.

I could have communicated more clearly.

Historians are pretty much convinced that Revelations was a diatribe against Nero's Rome just after the Jewish-Roman war of 70 AD.

Israel was basically in a ruin and their chroniclers stepped up to the plate and wrote some hopeful and useful things to tide them over.

aikido7
May 23rd, 2015, 03:25 PM
"I knew fellow Christians years ago who were convinced the Four Horsemen were a metaphor for the Beatles."

And it was Pete Best - the ORIGINAL DRUMMER for the Beatles - who FIRST rode out on a white horse.

Angels called him BACK -- and Ringo went out on the White Horse later...That's the spirit.

Thanks, Anto9us, for not taking me seriously.

Most Christians I know have different ideas for the different metaphors found in Revelations. And the Beatles idea was, unfortunately, one of those.

everready
May 23rd, 2015, 03:32 PM
I've always seen the rider on the white horse as seen below.

http://www.fmh-child.org/FirstHorseman.jpg


Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.


everready

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 03:45 PM
any explanation of the apocalypse should attempt to connect the dots
consider these:

antichrist
second beast
ten horns
thousand years
babylon the great
white horse
red horse
black horse

you start with the thousand years
it is easy to find
there is only one
and
it just happens to be christian
the byzantine empire - the thousand years
its capital was constantinople - babylon the great
it was started by constantine - rider of the white horse
it was ended by an islamic dynasty - ten horns, second beast
started by mohammed - antichrist, rider of the red horse
this was the ottoman empire
it was ended by the rusian empire - rider of the black horse

pleas see timeline of the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105824)
if
you want to see all the dots connected

patrick jane
May 23rd, 2015, 03:51 PM
any explanation of the apocalypse should attempt to connect the dots
consider these:

antichrist
second beast
ten horns
thousand years
babylon the great
white horse
red horse
black horse

you start with the thousand years
it is easy to find
there is only one
and
it just happens to be christian
the byzantine empire - the thousand years
its capital was constantinople - babylon the great
it was started by constantine - rider of the white horse
it was ended by an islamic dynasty - ten horns, second beast
started by mohammed - antichrist, rider of the red horse
this was the ottoman empire
it was ended by the rusian empire - rider of the black horse

pleas see timeline of the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105824)
if
you want to see all the dots connected

who is the pale horse ? -

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 03:53 PM
who is the pale horse ? -

don't think there is a who like the other three

the rider is death and destruction
and
it is now with us

patrick jane
May 23rd, 2015, 03:56 PM
19759

Anto9us
May 23rd, 2015, 04:30 PM
Rev 6:7

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.


Rev 6:8

And I looked, and behold Clint Eastwood: and he said

"Do ya feel LUCKY, PUNK ?

Well -- DO YA ??"

chrysostom
May 23rd, 2015, 04:41 PM
find another thread
if
you are not interested in the apocalypse

northwye
May 23rd, 2015, 06:35 PM
There were two main empires before the four in Daniel 2. These two empires that came before Babylon were the Egyptian and the Assyrian empires. All six of these empires began before the Cross.

And there were two main empires that came before the British empire after the Cross. These two empires that came before the British empire were the Holy Roman Empire and the Catholic Spanish Empire. There are six more important empires after the Cross.

There is a symmetry here, a design by God, and not something that happened by chance.

Revelation 6 on the four horses and riders and Revelation 13 on the first beast which is a composite of at least two nations and the second beast representing the many false prophets of Matthew 24: 11 are prophecies that were future from the point of view of the time John wrote. These prophecies are not about historical events that happened before the First Century A.D.

The lion empire of Daniel 7: 4 is the British empire and the others - the bear, the leopard and the fourth one dreadful, terrible and very strong - which follow in time exist from about 1588 when the Spanish Armada was defeated to the present. All of these four nations exist now, though England has lost most of its colonial possessions, the old Soviet Union is gone, but Russia is still a power, and Germany still exists though its Nazi regime was totally defeated in 1945. The U.S. began to become the national security state in 1947, and is now a remaining super power, though culturally and spiritually in decline. Frank Lloyd Wright said the U.S. was the only important country to go from Barbarism to Degeneracy without having a culture in between. He has been dead over 50 years.

patrick jane
May 23rd, 2015, 06:40 PM
don't think there is a who like the other three

the rider is death and destruction
and
it is now with us

so, your timeline shows the 4 horsemen coming at different times over thousands of years ? -

Anto9us
May 23rd, 2015, 09:53 PM
I am interested in the Apocalypse.

I am interested in the idea of "Byzantine empire = 1000 year reign" if that is what was postulated

but how does WHAT CAME AFTER IT jive with Revelation's account of what followed a "1000 year reign?"

Anto9us
May 23rd, 2015, 09:56 PM
"The lion empire of Daniel 7: 4 is the British empire and the others - the bear, the leopard and the fourth one dreadful, terrible and very strong - which follow in time exist from about 1588 when the Spanish Armada was defeated to the present. All of these four nations exist now, though England has lost most of its colonial possessions, the old Soviet Union is gone, but Russia is still a power, and Germany still exists though its Nazi regime was totally defeated in 1945."

all of this "newspaper & history book eschatology" can wind up making biblical prophecy into a situation of

"meaning everything and nothing"

sort of DEGRADING to the Bible

when I was in college, Henry Kissinger was definitely the AntiChrist

chrysostom
May 24th, 2015, 04:30 AM
I am interested in the Apocalypse.

I am interested in the idea of "Byzantine empire = 1000 year reign" if that is what was postulated

but how does WHAT CAME AFTER IT jive with Revelation's account of what followed a "1000 year reign?"

what do you mean by

what followed a "1000 year reign?"

northwye
May 24th, 2015, 07:39 AM
It might seem that the prophecies of Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 are about fleshly and earthly kingdoms or empires of man and do not deal with that which is spiritual.

And - dispensationalism in its insistence that everything in scripture is literal has led many to focus on the literal or physical in the prophecy of Revelation 6: 2-6.

While the four horses of Revelation 6: 2-6 do represent physical governments, natural men as political and military leaders, and man made institutions, including the Capital C Churches, the riders upon these natural horses can be seen as supernatural entities. In Daniel 10: 13-21 the angel which was sent to give Daniel the prophecies recorded in Daniel 11 and 12 says the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood him for twenty-one days. The prince of Grecia is mentioned in Daniel 10: 20. You might think, in a literal way, that these are earthly princes. But they are supernatural beings, fallen angels.

The four riders on the houses of Revelation 6: 2-6 can be fallen angels. The fallen angels are steering the horses, representing natural men, governments and their military forces.

Remember that the common thread in all four horses and riders is conquest, killing, and taking peace from the earth. This is partly why Daniel 7 with its four beast empires fits with the four horses and riders. Each empire has a fallen angel "prince" over it. The parallels between the four empires in Daniel 2 and in Daniel 7 suggest the same fallen angels were over both sets of four. This does not mean that the empires of Daniel 7 are the same as those in Daniel 2.

Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 2 about the statute was a prophetic revelation of four empires, now all gone in ancient history. Spiritually, these four empires of Daniel 2 marked the kingdoms of man up to the fourth kingdom or empire, the Roman Empire.

"And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever." Daniel 2: 44. But the kingdom of God is not an earthly one. The kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17: 21).

Then, in Daniel 7: 4-7 the four parallel empires mark the time from the rise of the Protestant empires to the time of Christ's return. This does not mean that the Protestant empires were perfect or that they were fully Christian, because the red horse empire of the Soviet Union was anti-Christ and the black horse Nazi empire, though it sometimes claimed to be Christian, was not really Christian. Its just that there was a Christian, mostly Protestant, presence in all four of these beast empires of Daniel 7.

The four statute empires of Daniel 2 marked the time period of the Babylonian exile to the first appearing of Christ and the Diaspora of the multitude of Old Covenant Israel after their rejection of Christ. The Roman empire was still in power at the time of the Diaspora of the multitude of Old Covenant Israel.

The four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 mark the time from the rise of the British empire until the second appearing of Christ.

The four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 are the basis for the four horsemen of Revelation 6.

See: http://www.finalinstructions-logospubco.com/the-four-horsemen.htm

The site above is one of several on the Internet which teach that the four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 are the basis for the four horses and riders of Revelation 6.

Here is another site on the empires of Daniel 7 being the basis for the four horsemen of Revelation 6: http://kenraggio.com/KRPN-Four-Beasts-Of-Daniel.html

This site above says "Daniel dreamed of four great kingdoms that necessarily EXIST ON EARTH at the time of the Second Coming of Jesus."

The site also points out that Daniel 7: 12 says that the four beast kingdoms had their dominion taken away, yet they were allowed to exist for a time. With the four empires of Daniel 2 each successive empire replaced the one before it, and the Roman empire continued on into the era of the New Covenant for some time.

"As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him." Daniel 7: 12-13

You have to read the scriptures carefully; they are revelation and not written like a high school textbook, which spells everything out in great detail so the kiddies who are not too sharp can understand it to some extent.

tetelestai
May 24th, 2015, 08:05 AM
the four horsemen


The four horsemen:

(Ezk 14:21) For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

It happened 66AD - 70AD (3.5 years)

John tells us it was Jerusalem. Jerusalem in 70AD was the harlot Babylon. Jerusalem in 70AD was spiritually called Sodom and Egypt:

(Rev 11:8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

chrysostom
May 24th, 2015, 08:49 AM
The four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 are the basis for the four horsemen of Revelation 6.

which one is responsible for the abomination of desolation?

chrysostom
May 24th, 2015, 08:50 AM
The four horsemen:

(Ezk 14:21) For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

It happened 66AD - 70AD (3.5 years)

John tells us it was Jerusalem. Jerusalem in 70AD was the harlot Babylon. Jerusalem in 70AD was spiritually called Sodom and Egypt:

(Rev 11:8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

can you name the four horsemen?

Anto9us
May 24th, 2015, 10:05 AM
Rev 20:1

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:2

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

---

What I was trying to ask -- if the Byzantine empire is the 1000 year reign -- does history after Byzantine empire's demise match what is in Rev ch 20 as "that which follows the 1000 years once they ended"

Anto9us
May 24th, 2015, 10:07 AM
Rev 20:7

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,


Rev 20:8

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.



Rev 20:9

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.



Rev 20:10

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

OCTOBER23
May 24th, 2015, 10:07 AM
The rider of the pale horse is with us now
------------------------------------------------

PROBABLY, THE POPE ON HEARING OF SO MANY HOMO PRIESTS HORSING AROUND.

What a silly pagan religion.

How can anyone believe in Worshipping Mary or bowing down to Statues.

chrysostom
May 24th, 2015, 10:09 AM
Rev 20:1

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

Rev 20:2

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Rev 20:3

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

---

What I was trying to ask -- if the Byzantine empire is the 1000 year reign -- does history after Byzantine empire's demise match what is in Rev ch 20 as "that which follows the 1000 years once they ended"

the christian religion was protected for a thousand years

many historians have suggested that we would be reading the koran had it not been for the byzantine empire

CherubRam
May 24th, 2015, 10:50 AM
the christian religion was protected for a thousand years

many historians have suggested that we would be reading the koran had it not been for the byzantine empire

Christianity would not have been so weakened, if not for the millions of Christians killed by the Papacy.

Anto9us
May 24th, 2015, 10:51 AM
Then following the "1000 years" -- Satan was only to be loosed for "a little season" -- not nearly ANOTHER 1000 years

and who was the Beast and False Prophet of the Beast who were ALREADY IN THE LAKE OF FIRE during the 1000 year reign -- if 1000 year reign was really the Byzantine Empire?

And why has "a little season" been SOOOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG now ? ?

I'm just asking -- what interpretations can be made to all of the stuff that Revelation describes as happening AFTER the 1000 year reign -- if it is alleged that the 1000 years are OVER WITH?

Because if Byzantine Empire was the "1000 years" -- it's LONG OVER WITH -- so whence came the stuff Revelation describes as FOLLOWING the 1000 years?

chrysostom
May 24th, 2015, 11:40 AM
Then following the "1000 years" -- Satan was only to be loosed for "a little season" -- not nearly ANOTHER 1000 years

and who was the Beast and False Prophet of the Beast who were ALREADY IN THE LAKE OF FIRE during the 1000 year reign -- if 1000 year reign was really the Byzantine Empire?

And why has "a little season" been SOOOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG now ? ?

I'm just asking -- what interpretations can be made to all of the stuff that Revelation describes as happening AFTER the 1000 year reign -- if it is alleged that the 1000 years are OVER WITH?

Because if Byzantine Empire was the "1000 years" -- it's LONG OVER WITH -- so whence came the stuff Revelation describes as FOLLOWING the 1000 years?

do you know what recapitulation is all about?
you can't interpret the apocalypse without this understanding
the chapters are not necessarily in chronological order
so
each chapter must be analyzed on its own

there is no other way

tetelestai
May 24th, 2015, 12:08 PM
can you name the four horsemen?

sword, famine, wild beasts, and plague.

Anto9us
May 24th, 2015, 12:34 PM
I am just talking about NOTHING BUT CHAPTER 20 ITSELF

This one chapter - fifteen verses - starts before the 1000 year period begins; or right AS it begins, and describes Satan being bound for the 1000 years, - Satan gets out for a little season, has a Gog/Magog war (again?) -- makes war on the siants, and fire comes down from heaven and consumes the wicked

If Byzantine Empire was the 1000 years - what happened later (after fall of Byzantine Empire) that could be interpreted as those things in the above paragraph that happened subsequent to the 1000 years?

Or have they NOT HAPPENNED YET - and like Dispensationalists - we just put a huge GAP between stuff

Some people say NONE of Rev 20 has happened yet

I believe in recapitulation in some sense - for chapters in Revelation; as well as chapters 2 and 7 in Daniel (and other chapters)

all I'm asking is that if part of a chapter has already happened (i. e. - a Byzantine Empire came and went) what is the interpretation of events described in that same chapter that happen clearly CHRONOLOGICALLY LATER IN TIME to the 1000 years

FOR I DON'T SEE HOW ANYONE CAN POSSIBLY LOOK AT rEV 20 AND NOT SEE THAT

some happens DURING the 1000 years
and
some happens AFTER the 1000 years are ended -- it says that FLAT OUT

chrysostom
May 24th, 2015, 01:43 PM
If Byzantine Empire was the 1000 years - what happened later (after fall of Byzantine Empire) that could be interpreted as those things in the above paragraph that happened subsequent to the 1000 years?


some of it, I believe, has not happened yet

Anto9us
May 25th, 2015, 05:48 AM
I also believe some of it hasn't happened yet

chrysostom
May 26th, 2015, 10:40 AM
sword, famine, wild beasts, and plague.

how do you explain the thousand years?

aikido7
May 26th, 2015, 03:55 PM
At the final battle the blood of the unbelievers is so copious that it reaches to the level of the white horse's bridle.

Divine ethnic cleansing and a holy bloodbath.

Yum.

chrysostom
June 5th, 2015, 06:07 AM
the four horsemen


The rider of the white horse is Constantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) from the white sea

The rider of the red horse is Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) from the red sea, Antichrist

The rider of the black horse is Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx) from the black sea, communism

The rider of the pale horse is with us now

So you say Constantine did not come from the White Sea? This is true but did you know that even today the Turks refer to the Mediterranean Sea as the white sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea#cite_note-6)? It is a rough sea with what they call white caps, which makes it look white. Also did you know that bow in Genesis (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) means covenant? Constantine started the Christian empire that was to last over a thousand years (https://www.google.com/search?q=byzantine+empire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb). It would not have happened without divine intervention.

To be continued…….


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

what are your views of the pale horse?

chrysostom
June 21st, 2015, 05:07 AM
what makes some believe that they all ride at the same time?

chrysostom
September 16th, 2015, 05:11 AM
an interesting catholic site with a lot of information (http://www.ecatholic2000.com/index.php)


THE EXPLANATION OF
THE APOCALYPSE

VENERABLE BEDE (http://www.ecatholic2000.com/bede/untitled-31.shtml)


ON CHAPTER 6 (http://www.ecatholic2000.com/bede/untitled-11.shtml#_Toc385608319)

an interesting take on the four horsmen

white is the church

red and black are external attacks on the church

pale is an internal attack on the church

chrysostom
October 16th, 2015, 05:11 AM
pale horse

"Heretics who assume the garb of Catholics"

re beda (http://www.apocalyptic-theories.com/theories/bede/bedei6.html)

chrysostom
November 5th, 2015, 08:18 AM
pale horse

"Heretics who assume the garb of Catholics"

re beda (http://www.apocalyptic-theories.com/theories/bede/bedei6.html)

his first three horses are very similar to mine
so
I have to consider his pale horse interpretation

chrysostom
November 18th, 2015, 01:00 PM
this is the kind of bow the rider of the white horse has


Genesis 9:13King James Version (KJV)

13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

patrick jane
November 18th, 2015, 01:07 PM
good work Chrys !!

chrysostom
December 5th, 2015, 07:03 AM
the bow is a rainbow

it is a covenant

patrick jane
December 5th, 2015, 07:56 AM
the bow is a rainbow

it is a covenant

bacon & eggs

toast

juice and milk

for lunch ?

POT ROAST, mashed tates & gravy

Gurucam
December 5th, 2015, 08:10 AM
Should Christians be concerned with dooms day predictions? Or even with the four horse men? . . . They should not.

A Christian is one who is 'in Christ' and a child of God. God is for such a one. This means that no one and nothing can harm or bring harm to one. In fact Christians/children of God are promised to inherit the surface of earth in the fullness of time, without children of the flesh. Therefore God is not going to create any dooms day affair on the surface of this earth. God is going to restore the surface of earth to perfection, in the fullness of time, after He has removed all children of the flesh.

(Dooms day affairs are occurring and will continue to occur in another place. This is the ongoing reality inside the earth which is hell with Satan. Children of the flesh (including 'horse men' et. all) are routinely sent there, when they die on earth. However dooms day is that point in time when all children of the flesh (the four horse men et. all) will be transferred to inside the earth which is hell, with Satan in, one fell scoop. This is their total and final dismissal from earth's surface . . . so that only children of God will be left here. In Quantum physical this sudden and instantaneous 'disappearance from earth's surface and simultaneous transfer to another place' is described as teleportation through a black hole portal to a place of one's entanglement. This phenomenon is also mentioned in the KJV N.T. as follows:

Matthews: 24 KJV N.T.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke: 17 KJV N.T.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Matthews: 24 KJV N.T.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

However, when this sudden transfer occurs, children of the flesh will not realize or recognize that they have been removed from the surface of earth to inside the depths of earth. It will seem like this earth has become that hell inside the earth to where they have been magically teleported. This is why it is described in that way in the KJV N.T. That is simply the experiences of children of the flesh when they first enter the depths of earth, which is hell with Satan. Fact is the description of dooms day events are the never ending, ongoing reality in that place where they all inevitably go.)

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

To be preoccupied with dooms day prophesy is to admit that one does not believe that one is Christian. What a man beliveth . . . well, . . . so be it.

Dooms day prophesy relates to those who are called to be Christians, i.e. both the chosen and the not chosen. (That is, according to Jesus' statement and/or prophesy: "many are called and few chosen")

However it can and will be a real live dooms day affair, only for 'children of the flesh', i.e. those who are not chosen. God will totally insulate and protect His children (i.e. children of God, they are Christians). i.e. the few who are chosen.

Dooms day is a means of removing 'children of the flesh' (the great majority who are not chosen) from earth so that only 'children of God' (the chosen few who are Christians) can inherit earth, without 'children of the flesh', in the fullness of time. This is the final casting out from earth of children of the flesh.

Therefore dooms day affairs are actually a description of the experiences of only children of the flesh in their new reality after they have been removed from earth's surface. In their new world or reality the light of the sun, the moon and the stars do not shine. Therefore this world or reality is inside the depths of earth which is hell, with Satan.

The Lord Jesus instructed that Christians (those who follow Him) should not be concerned with others. Jesus' clear instruction is:

Matthews: 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Seems to me that those who follow the Lord Jesus should not be concerned with 'the dead' who are the children of the flesh.

Only they (the dead) will be seriously and negatively impacted by the four horse man and dooms day prophesies etc. They are all entangled. They all end in the same place. The four horse men can and do rule over only 'the dead'. They are 'the dead' who are burying their dead counterpart on earth. Justice is very divine.

Are you guys Christians? Yes. Then why the preoccupations with the four horse man and dooms day prophesies etc.?

You all are aware that 'the dead' means 'the spiritually dead'. This means 'dead to one's own spirit'. This means that one is only aware of ones physical body which is one's flesh. Therefore 'the dead' describes 'children of the flesh'.

Those who 'follow the Lord Jesus' are Christians, also called 'children of God'.

Therefore, 'Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.' means: Christians (children of God) do not be concerned with children of the flesh. Let their own kind bury them with their dead physical bodies in the earth, when they die.

When Christians die on earth they are not buried in the earth with their dead physical bodies. They rise in three day (like the Lord Jesus), to be like angels in heaven. They literally follow what the Lord Jesus did and they also literally follow the Lord Jesus to spirit heaven.

Gurucam
December 6th, 2015, 08:18 AM
Guys,

Make no mistakes 'children of the flesh', spend just 40 to 70 or so years on the surface of earth. Then they all go to the depths of earth which is hell with Satan. Even 'horse men' etc. spend just 40 to 70 or so years on the surface of earth, in their man made (earth destroying and killething) paradises, then when they die, they all go to the depths of earth which is hell with Satan.

There the light of the sun, the moon and the stars do not shine. Also there is constant shifting of their footing, eruptions, fighting, wars etc. and all other dooms day event are unfolding perpetually.

So far some of them are inside the earth in hell with Satan for over 2000 odd years. This is according to:

Matthews: 8 KJV N.T.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

'The dead' are buried in the earth, with their dead physical bodies to wait indefinitely on the physical return of the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus is expected to return in a human physical body and shout out to them to rise out of the earth, like Lazarus. Some are in the earth for 2000 odd years already.

Rising out of the earth, like Lazarus, with the help of the physical 'seen' and temporal, son of man, Lord Jesus, must not be confused with rising to heaven (which Christians do). Christians (when they die) rise to heaven, in three day, under live spirit communion with the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal Son of God, Lord Jesus.

Fact is the dead, including all horse men etc., are taken care of appropriately and fairly, by the divine status quo. Don't you trust the divine status quo?

On the other hand: Christians do not take the above path. They need not and do not worry, at all.

When Christians die on earth they rise in three day, like the Lord Jesus, to be like angels in heaven.

Christians have been delivered from:

1.) all sin even if they transgress the Ten Commandments,

2.) 'the dead' (who bury their dead),

3.) all horsemen and other unsavory leaders,

4.) being buried in the earth together with their dead physical bodies to wait indefinite for anyone or any thing.

5.) hell whether on the earth or inside the depths of earth with Satan.

Christians live in God's kingdom of heaven on earth whiles they are alive on earth. Then when they die on earth, they are delivered right into spirit heaven, within three days after their death on earth, to be like angels in heaven, with the Lord Jesus.

'The dead' are different. They do not know the above and/or the following facts whiles they live on earth. They cannot be reached with the above and/or the following facts. In fact they (the dead) have been known to kill and other wise destroy people (children of God) who know and observe the following:

The earth is a living entity. It is bigger and more important, than any human. Humans are simply given the opportunity to live on its surface. Humans are not supposed to go up against the earth nor can they do so successfully i.e. without receiving an unsavory reply from the earth, herself.

The earth inevitably deals with each human, individually, according to his or her individual mind set and action with respect to her. These are according to their individual entanglement. However the earth's reaction time have been slow for the past 2000 odd years. So the dead on earth, perceives that there is no repatriation for the things which they did or do to earth. This has changed, recently. Now more magic rule will be evident on earth, in real time, as follows:

Matthews: 24 KJV N.T.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Fact is children of the flesh are not aware of the above fact. Therefore while they live on earth's surface they ignores the integrity of earth and do as they please. In fact they are misled by 'the dead' (including the intellectual class). Then they live vicariously (according to the ideas of the dead), in unawareness and carelessly.

The earth responds slowly. However inevitably the earth claims these people for repatriation of their acts against her. It is under the grace and 'not seen' influence of the earth and her sun and other supporting planets and heavenly bodies, that these unfortunate unaware people are buried in the earth together with their dead physical bodies. There they are at the mercy of earth within her very bowels. The earth treat them in the same manner as they treated her.

Fact is, if one does not live on the surface of earth correctly, the earth swallows one up, then chews one up inside her.

Although they all the dead eventually awaken inside the earth in hell with Satan. Only a few of 'the dead' realizes their unfortunate ways and their transgressions. This happens only among the few who have dies and are buried, unaware, inside the earth in hell with Satan. This is how, where and when they may realize their erring ways on earth.

This delayed period (to awaken in hell) applies only to those spiritually dead people who die on earth. Those who are teleported 'live', to the depth of earth which is hell with Satan, according to Matthews: 24 verse: 40, KJV N.T. reach there with awareness. They realize their unfolding misfortune immediately, without ever loosing awareness. However they do not usually realize that they are in hell inside the earth, with Satan. They simply perceive that they are on earth with dooms day events in perpetual progress.

Dooms day events are not actually end of time events. They are the ever unfolding reality inside the earth which is hell with Satan. These dooms day events seem to be end of time events only to those final set of the dead when they are teleported out of earth in one fell scoop, live and direct to inside the earth in hell with Satan. For all others these dooms day events do not happen or exist.

All thing inside the earth in hell with Satan has been and continues to be conformed to the surface of earth with perpetual ensuing dooms day events. It is a living place where dooms day events are ceaselessly unfolding.

People inside the earth in hell with Satan, erroneously perceives that they are on the surface of earth living the perpetual unfolding of dooms day events. The dead are referred to as not being able to discern hell from other realities. Whether they are in hell on earth or in inside the earth, they are not able to discern that they are in hell.

They might also be in a man made money created paradise on earth, it is the same, they would not know that they are in hell on earth. Also they will not realize that they are in hell, inside the earth, when they eventually go there.

Where ever they are they claw over, pull down, enslave, outsmart, fight, bully,etc. each other to create their person lives. Then what ever survival or life they make they perceive that to be heavenly. There are 'horse men' in all hells. There are absolutely none in any of the heavens.

Fact is 'the dead', including 'horse men' etc. never live on the surface of any earth for more than one life time. Then they go inside the earth in hell with Satan. Their off springs are all new. Deceased family members never return to the surface of earth. This has now changes.

Now, there will be no possibility that any new children of the flesh and other new horse men etc. will be brought forth to the surface of this earth in their families. They will get no blood lines (of their disposition) to continue their tradition.

Matthew: 10 KJV N.T.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

Selected 'children of God' will be covertly born into or other wise come into, powerful families of 'dead' leader and ruler, including the families of 'horse men' etc, so as to make things right in the new Age of Aquarius on earth. Some of these guys know this and they are in panic . . . running around like 'headless chickens'.

chrysostom
December 28th, 2015, 06:35 AM
just put them on ignore
if
you don't like long posts

chrysostom
January 19th, 2016, 04:50 AM
I think we are in the fourth quarter

with the pale horse

chrysostom
February 11th, 2016, 05:37 AM
my interpretation of the four horsemen is unique
and
there is no real consensus out there

Flaminggg
February 11th, 2016, 02:48 PM
(The Antichrist will reach his final 40 Days of life tomorrow, at which time, God intends to allow the Antichrist to reveal the Four Horsemen of the Revelation ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VD3vOduCwu0 ... billions of lives will be terminated very quickly, the Antichrist believes that there were people listening when he claimed God would furnish an event similar to Roswell for these purposes of enlightenment, however insignificant it is, or was voiced, in the past)

1st Horseman = Megiddo (Abaddon) great evil of man seeking to justify these final days as a declaration of their promise (2 Chronicles 35:22).
2nd Horseman = Bashanhavothjar, Blood Sacrifice of Asia for a Portion of Asia (Nuclear Exchange)
3rd Horseman = Berodachbaladan, Blood Sacrifice of Genetic Dan for Aaron
4th Horseman = Hamongog (Apollyon) great migrating of the people into the United States of America

The Antichrist believes in the ability of the body of believers to handle these 40 days maturely and faithfully, and doing what needs to be done. So he has taken the time to speak directly with God, and with the Universe about what is to come to pass, what is to happen, beginning tomorrow. Love and Blessings.

chrysostom
February 12th, 2016, 06:51 AM
so what is the significance of the color of the horse?
and
what is the significance what the rider holds in his hand?

shouldn't you be able to address that?

SaulToPaul
February 12th, 2016, 06:53 AM
my interpretation of the four horsemen is unique
and
there is no real consensus out there

Why doesn't the Magisterium give us the correct interpretation?
Isn't that their main purpose?

Flaminggg
February 12th, 2016, 11:49 PM
so what is the significance of the color of the horse?
and
what is the significance what the rider holds in his hand?

shouldn't you be able to address that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGnuVHkX3js

(So far there is no public safety messages up, to assist the authorities in the humane resolution of the problem, http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k492/psalmsamuel/stateID.jpg, now that we have address the most important element of this discussion. ... ... ... ... I want to briefly talk about the old ways, namely, that people do not have the right to live when the destruction of the lord's vessel or testimony is taking place. ... ... ... ... At present this is routinely done, sometimes they are allowed to see what happens, other times they choose not to keep attacking after a few examples. Today out of a 10 hour walk, they choose to stop attacking around the 5-6 hour mark. God removes their right to live, after some point they are no longer capable of attacking. After a maximum, it takes a little more than a week before repeating this process is necessary. It doesn't matter they say or do to the Antichrist, the result is the same, they typically attack their own, or die in public shame ... ... ... ... right now I want to talk about myself, this information can hurt a lot of people, if a control mechanism is not employed namely, we give the opportunity, and let God put them down based on what they do ... ... ... ... do you see the video in the link? Their bodies are not burned alive or anything, because of what is done, their organs fail or they simply no longer exist, or in rare instances, they are allowed to live to bring shame and distaste to themselves in the presence of others ... ... ... ... this is an important part of understanding the theology behind the Four Horses ... ... ... ... "Berserk" is probably my most favorite Anime because, Griffith kills more people by being abused sexuall* and physicall* than by using any weapon himself ... ... ... ... secondly my most favorite anime is Jojo, because he never kills directly, he only allows his stand to kill, and those actions are always lethal. ... ... ... ... You have just understood what has happened to thousands of people based on our 10 hour walk yesterday, and the level of force that was used, and whatever else happens I do not decide to draw any attention to, these final 40 or so days of the Antichrist's Lifespan, Back to topic:)

1st Horse White = Rod of Joseph (Staff of Moses) = Leprous as Snow (Exodus 4:6)
2nd Horse Red = Jacob's Pillow Stones = Loins (Gen. 32:23-24)
3rd Horse Black = Ark of the Covenant = Emerods/Plague (1 Samuel 5:10-12)
4th Horse Pale = Holy Grail = Snared Conscious (Matt. 26:23)

Spiritual Answer
1st Horse White = Receiving a Spiritual Blessing (lack thereof, this is revelation)
2nd Horse Red = Testifying of the Spirit to Yourself (lack thereof, this is revelation)
3rd Horse Black = Testifying of the Spirit to Others (lack thereof, this is revelation)
4th Horse Pale = Receiving Salvation (lack thereof, this is revelation)

Carnal Answer
1st Horse White = Skin Color
2nd Horse Red = Genetics (Genetic Dan)
3rd Horse Black = Ungodliness (Work without Faith)
4th Horse Pale = Spiritually Dead/Derogatory form of Humanism (Failure to identify with Spiritual Reality) (Jesus does not pay for Sin)

(Back in 2014, the Authorities had captured God preventing Genetic Dan from killing his body and driving these people into their own. However the Authorities edited the Antichrist out of the video they released as the Picnic killings of a mass of church members ... ... ... ... once the public, media and authorities show the truth, we will simply keep repeating this process because of the nature of the public threat, it has no control over itself) Love and Blessings. (The Antichrist will cut them all from the covenant, as the law states)

OCTOBER23
February 13th, 2016, 12:07 AM
HORSES COLOURS ARE WHITE BLACK RED GREEN

which are the same colours of the Flags of all the Moslem Nations

surrounding ISRAEL God's Chosen People.

chrysostom
March 13th, 2016, 04:02 AM
-the color is significant
-what the rider holds in his hand is significant
-the bow is a rainbow
-a covenant with God
-see gen 9:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV)

SaulToPaul
March 15th, 2016, 10:53 AM
-the color is significant
-what the rider holds in his hand is significant
-the bow is a rainbow
-a covenant with God
-see gen 9:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV)

:chuckle:

chrysostom
March 29th, 2016, 03:24 AM
the riders of the first three horses
-are
-three of the most significant men who have ever lived
-constantine who is the third most significant in what he did for the church
-mohammed who is the second most significant and the enemy of the church
-marx who is the fourth most significant and the enemy of religion

chrysostom
April 15th, 2016, 04:31 AM
I haven't seen this interpretation anywhere else
-and
-I have been looking

chrysostom
May 12th, 2016, 04:42 AM
I am still looking
-are you watching?

SaulToPaul
May 12th, 2016, 07:00 AM
I haven't seen this interpretation anywhere else


So your interpretation is a private interpretation?
Neat.

chrysostom
June 10th, 2016, 04:22 AM
thanks for watching

patrick jane
June 10th, 2016, 04:50 AM
the riders of the first three horses
-are
-three of the most significant men who have ever lived
-constantine who is the third most significant in what he did for the church
-mohammed who is the second most significant and the enemy of the church
-marx who is the fourth most significant and the enemy of religion

:kookoo:

SaulToPaul
June 10th, 2016, 05:59 AM
:kookoo:

:chuckle:
Agreed. He has a vivid imagination.

chrysostom
July 2nd, 2016, 05:48 AM
some are still waiting for the horses

SaulToPaul
July 5th, 2016, 06:39 AM
some are still waiting for the horses

:chuckle:

You can't make them fit anywhere but the future.
Why would you leave out so many details to suit your theory?

Epoisses
July 5th, 2016, 07:27 AM
some are still waiting for the horses

The four horseman correspond with the four metals of the great image and the four beasts of Daniel 7. Satan is the head of gold or lion or white rider. Jesus is pictured as riding a white horse in Rev. 19 so once again we see the elements of deception where Satan will appear as the false Christ to conquer the world. The other riders are other angels who will appear after him but they will all work together to deceive the world. Rev. 5 details the opening of the seals of the sealed book and so many prophecy pundits focus on the seals and say nothing of the book itself. The only book in the bible that is sealed and will be opened at some future time is the book of Daniel so each seal is a glimpse into the book of Daniel. The seals are not time specific because the 6th seal is the 2nd coming and all are opened prior to that.

chrysostom
July 5th, 2016, 07:41 AM
The only book in the bible that is sealed and will be opened at some future time is the book of Daniel so each seal is a glimpse into the book of Daniel.

so you are a futurist
-do you even bother to look at history to see if you missed something?

Epoisses
July 5th, 2016, 07:42 AM
so you are a futurist
-do you even bother to look at history to see if you missed something?

I started out as an historicist 25 years ago so I am well versed in its stupidity.

chrysostom
July 5th, 2016, 07:54 AM
I started out as an historicist 25 years ago so I am well versed in its stupidity.

you will never be an historicist if you are not looking for the right things

SaulToPaul
July 5th, 2016, 09:28 AM
you will never be an historicist if you are not looking for the right things

What was the abomination that maketh desolate?

Epoisses
July 5th, 2016, 11:20 PM
you will never be an historicist if you are not looking for the right things

The word prophecy means to foretell the future not the past. The very definition of the word refutes you.

Epoisses
July 5th, 2016, 11:21 PM
What was the abomination that maketh desolate?

It was not a pig on an altar!

chrysostom
July 26th, 2016, 11:14 AM
the four horsemen


The rider of the white horse is Constantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) from the white sea

The rider of the red horse is Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) from the red sea, Antichrist

The rider of the black horse is Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx) from the black sea, communism

The rider of the pale horse is with us now

So you say Constantine did not come from the White Sea? This is true but did you know that even today the Turks refer to the Mediterranean Sea as the white sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea#cite_note-6)? It is a rough sea with what they call white caps, which makes it look white. Also did you know that bow in Genesis (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) means covenant? Constantine started the Christian empire that was to last over a thousand years (https://www.google.com/search?q=byzantine+empire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb). It would not have happened without divine intervention.

To be continued…….


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

they fit

SaulToPaul
July 26th, 2016, 11:14 AM
they fit

:chuckle:

chrysostom
August 15th, 2016, 05:56 AM
I wonder what they are looking for

patrick jane
August 15th, 2016, 06:02 AM
the four horsemen


The rider of the white horse is Constantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) from the white sea

The rider of the red horse is Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) from the red sea, Antichrist

The rider of the black horse is Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx) from the black sea, communism

The rider of the pale horse is with us now

So you say Constantine did not come from the White Sea? This is true but did you know that even today the Turks refer to the Mediterranean Sea as the white sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea#cite_ref-6)? It is a rough sea with what they call white caps, which makes it look white. Also did you know that bow in Genesis (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) means covenant? Constantine started the Christian empire that was to last over a thousand years (https://www.google.com/search?q=byzantine+empire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb). It would not have happened without divine intervention.

To be continued…….


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)
:kookoo:

chrysostom
September 23rd, 2016, 10:03 AM
:kookoo:

good post

chrysostom
October 4th, 2016, 04:33 AM
the colors are significant
-and-
should help identify the riders

chrysostom
October 15th, 2016, 08:27 AM
having trouble with the pale one

chrysostom
October 27th, 2016, 04:34 AM
we are in the fourth quarter

chrysostom
November 3rd, 2016, 08:23 AM
the end is near

SaulToPaul
November 3rd, 2016, 09:51 AM
the end is near

near(er)

chrysostom
November 15th, 2016, 01:45 AM
near(er)

your posts are getting better

chrysostom
November 28th, 2016, 07:05 AM
the four horsemen


The rider of the white horse is Constantine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great) from the white sea

The rider of the red horse is Mohammed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) from the red sea, Antichrist

The rider of the black horse is Marx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx) from the black sea, communism

The rider of the pale horse is with us now

So you say Constantine did not come from the White Sea? This is true but did you know that even today the Turks refer to the Mediterranean Sea as the white sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea#cite_note-6)? It is a rough sea with what they call white caps, which makes it look white. Also did you know that bow in Genesis (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) means covenant? Constantine started the Christian empire that was to last over a thousand years (https://www.google.com/search?q=byzantine+empire&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb). It would not have happened without divine intervention.

To be continued…….


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

the colors are significant

chrysostom
December 9th, 2016, 05:43 AM
watch for the pale horse

chrysostom
December 17th, 2016, 04:34 AM
the rider is death

Crucible
December 17th, 2016, 05:00 AM
http://www.johnfeffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/1024px-Apocalypse_vasnetsov-722x378.jpg

Death, Pestilence, War, and Conquest.

Pale as corpse, black as plague, red as blood, and white as dominion.
They are direct representations of themselves.

chrysostom
December 30th, 2016, 05:36 AM
black as plague,

how does that work with the scales?

Crucible
December 30th, 2016, 09:19 AM
how does that work with the scales?

They may have something to do with alchemy, or perhaps symbolically, a destabilization.

chrysostom
January 13th, 2017, 08:54 AM
They may have something to do with alchemy, or perhaps symbolically, a destabilization.

how does that work with the price of barley?

chrysostom
February 1st, 2017, 05:50 AM
your interpretation of the four horsemen should fit your interpretation of the rest of the apocalypse

chrysostom
March 9th, 2017, 03:42 AM
the rider of the white horse moved the capital of the roman empire to constantinople and started a one thousand year empire which would be ended by the second beast started by the rider of the red horse

chrysostom
April 6th, 2017, 06:28 AM
constantine made the world safe for christianity

chrysostom
May 15th, 2017, 04:29 AM
the rider of the white horse had a rainbow -
just search the bible for bow -
the first hit is gen 9:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) -
a token of a covenant

CherubRam
May 15th, 2017, 07:14 AM
the colors are significant

White Sea is part of Russia. A white horse is parabolic for victory or victor. The person in Rev 6 has a single crown of life, whereas Christ has many crowns.

CherubRam
May 15th, 2017, 07:20 AM
the rider of the white horse had a rainbow -
just search the bible for bow -
the first hit is gen 9:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV) -
a token of a covenant

Bow and rainbow are two different subjects.

jamie
May 15th, 2017, 07:29 AM
The white horse symbolizes false Christianity.

The red horse symbolizes warfare.

The black horse symbolizes famine.

The pale (green) horse symbolizes disease.

CherubRam
May 15th, 2017, 12:37 PM
Zechariah 1:8 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+1:8&version=NIV)

During the night I had a vision, and there before me was a man mounted on a red horse. He was standing among the myrtle trees in a ravine. Behind him were red, brown and white horses.In Context (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+1:7-9&version=NIV) | Full Chapter (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+1&version=NIV) | Other Translations (https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Zechariah%201:8)


Zechariah 6:6 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+6:6&version=NIV)

The one with the black horses is going toward the north country, the one with the white horses toward the west,(Christians going West to America) and the one with the dappled horses toward the south.”In Context (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+6:5-7&version=NIV) | Full Chapter (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+6&version=NIV) | Other Translations (https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Zechariah%206:6)

Revelation 6:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+6:2&version=NIV)
I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest. (One crown of life for Michael.)
In Context (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+6:1-3&version=NIV) | Full Chapter (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+6&version=NIV) | Other Translations (https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation%206:2)

Revelation 19:11 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+19:11&version=NIV)
[ The Heavenly Warrior Defeats the Beast ] I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. (Christ, whom has many crowns.)
In Context (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+19:10-12&version=NIV) | Full Chapter (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+19&version=NIV) | Other Translations (https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation%2019:11)

Revelation 19:14 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+19:14&version=NIV)
The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. (People of heaven.)
In Context (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+19:13-15&version=NIV) | Full Chapter (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+19&version=NIV) | Other Translations (https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation%2019:14)

jamie
May 15th, 2017, 02:19 PM
How many seals do you think there were?

How many did Jesus interpret?

CherubRam
May 15th, 2017, 02:27 PM
How many seals do you think there were?

How many did Jesus interpret?
I do not understand your question.

jamie
May 15th, 2017, 05:24 PM
I do not understand your question.


First seal - false Christianity: "And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer." (Revelation 6:2) "For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." (Matthew 24:5)

Second seal - warfare: "Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth and that people should kill one another, and there was given to him a great sword." (Revelation 6:4) "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. (Matthew 24:7)

Third seal - famine: "So I looked, and behold, a black horse and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand." (Revelation 6:5) "And there will be famines" (Matthew 24:7)

Fourth seal - pestilences: "So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him." (Revelation 6:8) "pestilences" (Matthew 24:7)

The four horsemen of the apocalypse.

CherubRam
May 15th, 2017, 07:04 PM
First seal - false Christianity: "And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer." (Revelation 6:2) "For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many." (Matthew 24:5)

Second seal - warfare: "Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth and that people should kill one another, and there was given to him a great sword." (Revelation 6:4) "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. (Matthew 24:7)

Third seal - famine: "So I looked, and behold, a black horse and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand." (Revelation 6:5) "And there will be famines" (Matthew 24:7)

Fourth seal - pestilences: "So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him." (Revelation 6:8) "pestilences" (Matthew 24:7)

The four horsemen of the apocalypse.
The White and Dapple horses is Christianity. The Red horse is Islam. And the Black horse is Russia. And the Pale horse is death and the grave. In the last days Michael comes first before the others; he is the person with a single crown.

jamie
May 15th, 2017, 07:30 PM
The White and Dapple horses is Christianity. The Red horse is Islam. And the Black horse is Russia. And the Pale horse is death and the grave. In the last days Michael comes first before the others; he is the person with a single crown.


Is that what Jesus said?

chrysostom
May 16th, 2017, 05:44 AM
White Sea is part of Russia. A white horse is parabolic for victory or victor. The person in Rev 6 has a single crown of life, whereas Christ has many crowns.

the turks have always referred to the mediterranean as the white sea

chrysostom
May 16th, 2017, 05:48 AM
Bow and rainbow are two different subjects.

what about gen 9:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV)?

CherubRam
May 16th, 2017, 01:11 PM
what about gen 9:13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+9:13&version=KJV)?
That bow is a rainbow.

Genesis 9:13King James Version (KJV)

13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

CherubRam
May 16th, 2017, 01:12 PM
Is that what Jesus said?
It is what scriptures reveal.

jamie
May 16th, 2017, 02:12 PM
It is what scriptures reveal.


I take that as a no and you are right, that is not what Jesus said.

You tuned him out in favor of your own theory.

You don't know what apocalypse means do you?

CherubRam
May 16th, 2017, 02:29 PM
I take that as a no and you are right, that is not what Jesus said.

You tuned him out in favor of your own theory.

You don't know what apocalypse means do you?

I'm done talking. Have a nice day.

An apocalypse (Ancient Greek: ἀποκάλυψις apokálypsis, from ἀπό and καλύπτω, literally meaning "an uncovering") is a disclosure of knowledge or revelation. In religious contexts it is usually a disclosure of something hidden, "a vision of heavenly secrets that can make sense of earthly realities".

chrysostom
June 8th, 2017, 05:52 AM
the riders are significant players -
the colors are significant -
what they have in their hand and what they were given are significant -
it has to fit -
it has to make sense

chrysostom
July 15th, 2017, 03:46 AM
That bow is a rainbow.

Genesis 9:13King James Version (KJV)

13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

why not the rider of the white horse?

MichaelCadry
July 16th, 2017, 02:30 AM
Dear chrysostom,

The time is coming when all of your untruths and stories shall be uncovered and seen for the lies that they have been, and you will receive your reward and recompense. That's all I have to say.

May Jesus Forgive You,

Michael

patrick jane
July 16th, 2017, 01:21 PM
Dear chrysostom,

The time is coming when all of your untruths and stories shall be uncovered and seen for the lies that they have been, and you will receive your reward and recompense. That's all I have to say.

May Jesus Forgive You,

Michael:noid:

Lazy afternoon
July 16th, 2017, 07:55 PM
The white horse symbolizes false Christianity.

The red horse symbolizes warfare.

The black horse symbolizes famine.

The pale (green) horse symbolizes disease.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

MichaelCadry
July 18th, 2017, 04:15 AM
:noid:Dear patrickj,

I am not paranoid, if that's what you think. No, I'm saying that chrysostom has made up these stories, things he has not been told by God, neither has he had any angels come and tell him what certain scriptures mean, nor any true and divine vision for each claim either. Don't be upset with me, pj. Re the storyteller instead.

May God Be With You,

Michael

chrysostom
August 17th, 2017, 08:31 AM
Dear patrickj,

I am not paranoid, if that's what you think. No, I'm saying that chrysostom has made up these stories, things he has not been told by God,

this is true
-but-
they are based on history which seems to fit what has been prophesied