PDA

View Full Version : the four beasts



chrysostom
July 10th, 2014, 04:32 AM
the four beasts

the two beasts of the apocalypse are the last two beasts of daniel

the beasts of Daniel (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77338)

daniel 11 (king of the south) (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4385100#post4385100)


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

chrysostom
July 11th, 2014, 03:55 AM
islam is the fourth beast of daniel

the second beast of the apocalypse


the history of Islam (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112155)

Hearmyvoice
July 11th, 2014, 06:00 AM
islam is the fourth beast of daniel

the second beast of the apocalypse

the history of islam (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77409)

My understanding is the second beast of Daniel, "like to a bear" that devoured "much flesh," is the same second beast of Revelation described as, "another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

That second beast, I believe, is Russia/Esau/Edom...whose symbol is known as the bear. A powerful red/communist nation that takes peace from the earth and carries a mighty sword.



Daniel 7:3-5 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

7:6-8 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.


Revelation 6:3-6 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword. And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.


6:7-9 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Then there is the fourth beast...of Daniel and Revelation. They are, I believe, one and the same...Islam!

In Daniel the fourth beast is described as, "dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn."

The other beasts of Daniel are nations/kingdoms...political powers while the fourth beast is diverse...a religious beast...Islam and this beast is in power in the last days for from it's horns/powers comes the little horn. God through Daniel tells us:


Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The [B]fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

This fourth beast/kingdom of Daniel is described in Revelation as.....a pale horse associated with Death and Hell and it is powerful. Properly translated "pale" is green. This fourth green horse/kingdom/nation is Islam. As Russia is associated with "red/communism" the color of Islam is green, "the sacred color of Islam."

The fourth beast of Daniel and the fourth horse of the Apocalypse is one and the same....Islam.

chrysostom
July 11th, 2014, 06:39 AM
The fourth beast of Daniel and the fourth horse of the Apocalypse is one and the same....Islam.

why are you mixing beasts and horsemen?

a horseman may or may not bring forth a beast
but
they are not the beast

did you see my four horsemen thread?

Hearmyvoice
July 11th, 2014, 07:01 AM
why are you mixing beasts and horsemen?

a horseman may or may not bring forth a beast
but
they are not the beast

did you see my four horsemen thread?


The "horsemen" are the leaders of the beasts/kingdoms. It is not me mixing them but rather God describing them.

The fourth beast of Daniel and the fourth beast of Revelation is Islam.

Thunder's Muse
July 11th, 2014, 07:04 AM
Why Islam?


Posted from the TOL App cause that's how I roll.

chrysostom
July 11th, 2014, 07:45 AM
Why Islam?



islam is the greatest threat to christianity

communism is a poor second

history should tell you that

Thunder's Muse
July 11th, 2014, 07:46 AM
islam is the greatest threat to christianity



communism is a poor second



history should tell you that


Just trying to piece it together.


Posted from the TOL App cause that's how I roll.

HisServant
July 11th, 2014, 07:51 AM
Given that all these events are in the past, all you have to do is look at history and the meaning of the symbols is pretty evident.

chrysostom
July 11th, 2014, 08:28 AM
Given that all these events are in the past, all you have to do is look at history and the meaning of the symbols is pretty evident.

how about some examples?

Selaphiel
July 11th, 2014, 09:09 AM
Once again, your hatred for Islam leads you to wild anachronistic readings of the texts. Please tell, what would be the purpose of a text that would be incomprehensible to readers and hearers of it for about 700-800 years after it was written?

Read the history of Israel and the four beasts of Daniel become something more concrete than distant future religions, persons or empires. The beasts in Daniel are surrounding empires that were contemporary with the author of Daniel: Namely the Neo-Babylonian empire, the Median empire, the Persian empire and the Machedonian empire of Alexander the Great. The profaning of the temple referenced in Daniel 9, 11 and 12 refer to concrete historical events that Daniel knew about (in what sense is there a desecration of the Jewish temple by Islam when Islam originated long after Rabbinical Judaism arose, which has no temple in Jerusalem?). The profaning was the desecration of the temple done by Antiochius IV Epiphanes, the Seleucid king, who put a pagan statue within the sacred confines of the temple.

chrysostom
July 11th, 2014, 09:12 AM
Once again, your hatred for Islam leads you to wild anachronistic readings of the texts. Please tell, what would be the purpose of a text that would be incomprehensible to readers and hearers of it for about 700-800 years after it was written?

Read the history of Israel and the four beasts of Daniel become something more concrete than distant future religions, persons or empires. The beasts in Daniel are surrounding empires that were contemporary with the author of Daniel: Namely the Neo-Babylonian empire, the Median empire, the Persian empire and the Machedonian empire of Alexander the Great. The profaning of the temple referenced in Daniel 9, 11 and 12 refer to concrete historical events that Daniel knew about (in what sense is there a desecration of the Jewish temple by Islam when Islam originated long after Rabbinical Judaism arose, which has no temple of Jerusalem?). The profaning was the desecration of the temple done by Antiochius IV Epiphanes, the Seleucid king, who put a pagan statue within the sacred confines of the temple.

what about
the abomination of desolation?

what is preventing the third temple?

Selaphiel
July 11th, 2014, 09:18 AM
what about
the abomination of desolation?

what is preventing the third temple?

I just wrote what the desolation consisted of, it was Antiochus IV Epihanes desecration of the temple by erecting pagan statues within the temple confines, the worst possible thing for a conservative and devout Jew during that time. You cannot desecrate a temple by preventing it to be built, desecration presumes an existing temple that is desecrated. The Dome of the Rock is not desecrating a temple, there is no functioning temple there to be desecrated in the first place. The Dome of the Rock was built over 600 years after the destruction of the second temple by the Romans.

You are letting hatred being your guide to interpretation, rarely a good idea. Jewish prophecy simply is not particularly interested in distant future predictions, Jewish prophecy is more about a particular perspective on current events.

Thunder's Muse
July 11th, 2014, 09:22 AM
That's why I asked - Why Islam?


Posted from the TOL App cause that's how I roll.

chrysostom
July 11th, 2014, 09:28 AM
I just wrote what the desolation consisted of, it was Antiochus IV Epihanes desecration of the temple by erecting pagan statues within the temple confines, the worst possible thing for a conservative and devout Jew during that time. You cannot desecrate a temple by preventing it to be built, desecration presumes an existing temple that is desecrated. The Dome of the Rock is not desecrating a temple, there is no functioning temple there to be desecrated in the first place. The Dome of the Rock was built over 600 years after the destruction of the second temple by the Romans.

You are letting hatred being your guide to interpretation, rarely a good idea. Jewish prophecy simply is not particularly interested in distant future predictions, Jewish prophecy is more about a particular perspective on current events.

what is preventing the daily sacrifice?

Daniel 9:27 [Full Chapter]
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Hearmyvoice
July 11th, 2014, 09:29 AM
I just wrote what the desolation consisted of, it was Antiochus IV Epihanes desecration of the temple by erecting pagan statues within the temple confines, the worst possible thing for a conservative and devout Jew during that time. You cannot desecrate a temple by preventing it to be built, desecration presumes an existing temple that is desecrated. The Dome of the Rock is not desecrating a temple, there is no functioning temple there to be desecrated in the first place. The Dome of the Rock was built over 600 years after the destruction of the second temple by the Romans.

You are letting hatred being your guide to interpretation, rarely a good idea. Jewish prophecy simply is not particularly interested in distant future predictions, Jewish prophecy is more about a particular perspective on current events.


What you term "Jewish history" is God's Word and is a shadow of what would be:




1 Corinthians 10:10-12 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Thunder's Muse
July 11th, 2014, 09:30 AM
It's important to keep an open mind.


Posted from the TOL App cause that's how I roll.

Selaphiel
July 11th, 2014, 09:38 AM
what is preventing the daily sacrifice?

Daniel 9:27 [Full Chapter]
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Makes no sense if you put the Dome as the abomination. There had been no sacrifices there for over 600 years when it was built. Do you think it is reasonable to attribute the reason for the lack of sacrifices to something that arrived over 600 years after the sacrifices in question ceased?

If you see it in light of the desecration of the temple by the Seleucids, Antiochus IV Epihanes being the Seleucid king, it makes perfect sense, because that happened at a time when there was a functioning temple and there were sacrifices being done there which were then made impossible by the desecration of the temple by the pagan Seleucids.

chrysostom
July 11th, 2014, 10:50 AM
Makes no sense if you put the Dome as the abomination. There had been no sacrifices there for over 600 years when it was built. Do you think it is reasonable to attribute the reason for the lack of sacrifices to something that arrived over 600 years after the sacrifices in question ceased?

If you see it in light of the desecration of the temple by the Seleucids, Antiochus IV Epihanes being the Seleucid king, it makes perfect sense, because that happened at a time when there was a functioning temple and there were sacrifices being done there which were then made impossible by the desecration of the temple by the pagan Seleucids.

what about the past 1300 years?

chrysostom
July 14th, 2014, 05:40 AM
who has been making war with the saints?


Revelation 13:7King James Version (KJV)

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

chrysostom
July 29th, 2014, 03:20 AM
was, and is not, and yet is


This is from chapter 17 verse 8 of the Apocalypse and it is very significant in that it ties together Satan of chapter 20 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2020&version=KJV), the dragon of chapter 12 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+12&version=KJV), the beasts of chapter 13 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2013&version=KJV), and the seven heads and ten horns of chapter 17 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17&version=KJV).

Revelation 17:8 (KJV)
8The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

In chapter 13:12 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+13%3A12&version=KJV) the first beast is mortally wounded and replaced by the second one. In chapter 17 we have the beast that was, is not, and yet to come along with the five kings that were, the one that is, and the one that is yet to come. We should pay attention to any historical events that might fit this.

intojoy
July 29th, 2014, 04:48 AM
Fourth Beast = Two Legged Stage

All Beasts are Gentile kingdoms

chrysostom
August 3rd, 2014, 04:01 AM
Makes no sense if you put the Dome as the abomination.

the dome made it desolate

chrysostom
August 14th, 2014, 03:05 AM
" Was it possible, they began to ask themselves, that the fourth beast seen by Daniel was not, as had long been presumed, the empire of the Romans, after all? "

" Already, by the 660's, there were many prepared to revise their understanding of what Daniel had meant by this vision. ' He is saying, ' so a chronicler in Armenia suggested, ' that this fourth beast, which arises from the south, is the kingdom of the sons of Ishmael. ' "


In the Shadow of the Sword (book) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Shadow_of_the_Sword_%28book%29)


the chronicler in armenia was sebeos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sebeos)

chrysostom
August 27th, 2014, 07:14 AM
If you see it in light of the desecration of the temple by the Seleucids, Antiochus IV Epihanes being the Seleucid king, it makes perfect sense, because that happened at a time when there was a functioning temple and there were sacrifices being done there which were then made impossible by the desecration of the temple by the pagan Seleucids.

antiochus iv epiphanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochus_IV_Epiphanes) was a greek king
so
the babylonians, the greeks, and the romans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_kingdoms_of_Daniel)
all had something to do with the temple
but
not the medes or the persians
so
we drop them
and
add islam that does have something to do with the temple
and
is diverse from all the others (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=diverse+from+all+the+others&qs_version=KJV)

chrysostom
September 19th, 2014, 05:01 AM
is political correctness preventing the naming of the beast?

there is only one protected religion
and
that is islam
why?
because they will kill you even if they have to kill themselves while doing it

Hearmyvoice
September 27th, 2014, 09:01 AM
is political correctness preventing the naming of the beast?

there is only one protected religion
and
that is islam
why?
because they will kill you even if they have to kill themselves while doing it


Very true. A great example is the beheading that took place yesterday in OKLAHOMA. So many balked at stating what was plainly there...ISLAM at work in all it's "peaceful" glory.

chrysostom
October 14th, 2014, 03:03 AM
just search the bible for ten horns (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=ten+horns&qs_version=KJV)
and
you get the fourth beast of daniel
and
the second beast of the apocalypse

chrysostom
October 28th, 2014, 04:21 AM
the babylonians destroyed the first temple
the greeks desecrated the second
the romans destroyed the second
and
islam is preventing the third

northwye
October 28th, 2014, 04:53 AM
By the four beasts do you mean the four beasts of Daniel 2 or the four beasts of Daniel 7?

The four beast empires of Daniel 2 are all pre-Cross empires, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome. The those in the several false doctrines of Christianity tend to agree on this.

The four beast empires of Daniel 7: 4-7 - and don't forget the Little Horn nation of Daniel 7: 8 which rises up among these four beast empires - are the lion who originally had eagle's wings, the bear, the leopard and the fourth dreadful, strong and terrible beast empire.

The four horsemen of Revelation 6: 2-8 are, in part, these same four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7. And the first beast of Revelation 13: 1-3 is a composite beast empire which is said in verse 2 to be like the leopard, bear and lion (Daniel 7).

In order for the four beast empires of Daniel 7: 4-7 to play roles in the end time scenarios of Revelation 6 and 13, they have to be post-Cross world empires.

An understanding of the fundamental importance of these four beast empires of Daniel 7: 4-7 and the Little Horn nation that they are after the Cross and not also Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome of Daniel 2 - as the several false doctrines of Christianity now say - would work against the acceptance of these several false doctrines. That is, making the four beast empires of Daniel 7 post Cross empires can reveal the false nature of the contemporary Christian theologies.

Dispensationalism is one of the false doctrines. Dispensationalism, for one thing, opposes an understanding of the language of metaphor used in so many Bible prophecies. Amillennialism and the tendency to overly allegorize prophecy is another false doctrine. Preterism, the doctrine that all end time prophecy was fulfilled in the First century, is still another false doctrine. Though apparently the Christian Identity movement does not seem to be here on TOL, it too is another false doctrine, a variation of the dispensationalist honoring of all Old Covenant Israel - the multitude and not the remnant of Old Covenant Israel. Christian Identity claims its Germanic and Celtic followers are of the Ten Lost tribes of Old Covenant Israel. Like dispensationalism, which is racist, but its racism is in part hidden, Christian Identity is overtly racist.

An understanding of the American national security state helps to understand what the fourth beast empire of Daniel 7: 7 is, that it is not the Constitutional republic. It has taken on some of the traits of the lion, bear and leopard world empires.

chrysostom
November 16th, 2014, 04:37 AM
By the four beasts do you mean the four beasts of Daniel 2 or the four beasts of Daniel 7?

daniel 2?

I didn't know daniel 2 had four beasts

it should be very clear
I am talking about the four beasts of daniel 7

glorydaz
November 16th, 2014, 04:19 PM
islam is the greatest threat to christianity

communism is a poor second

history should tell you that


Yeah, and now we're bowing to Allah in the House of Representatives.

http://toprightnews.com/?p=7241

drws
November 17th, 2014, 07:47 AM
The Bible says that these beasts, from Daniel, will be kingdoms during the time that Jesus returns. Could it be that God knew that the modern day nations would have animal symbols? We see a lion with eagles wings that are then taken off and stand with a heart of a man given to it. What major nation has the symbol of a lion? Great Britain. What major nation has the animal signal of an eagle? The United States. What is also interesting is that the United States came out of Great Britain, just like what is depicted in Daniel 7 and has a second symbol: Uncle Sam. Then we see a bear with three ribs; what major nation has the symbol of the bear? Russia's national symbol is the bear.

chrysostom
May 25th, 2015, 03:13 AM
the two beasts of the apocalypse
are
the last two beasts of daniel

the third beast of daniel
and
the first beast of the apocalypse
are
like a leopard

Daniel 7:6 (KJV)

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Revelation 13:2 (KJV)

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.


the fourth beast of daniel
and
the second beast of the apocalypse
both
have ten horns (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=ten+horns&qs_version=KJV)

OCTOBER23
May 25th, 2015, 03:48 AM
CHRYS IS FINALLY WAKING UP TO THE END TIMES THAT I HAVE BEEN PREACHING

It is almost Time for the Vatican to be Destroyed by the Moslems

because the Pope will get them Angry and they will try to Destroy

the Pagan Catholic Church in 2023 AD.

chrysostom
May 26th, 2015, 05:29 AM
if you search the apocalypse for the word dragon (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=KJV&quicksearch=dragon&begin=73&end=73)

it ties together chapters 12, 13, 16, and 20

if you search the apocalypse for bottomless pit (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=bottomless+pit&qs_version=KJV)

it ties together chapters 9, 11, 17, and 20

if you search the apocalypse for number of his name (https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=KJV&quicksearch=number+of+his+name&begin=73&end=73)

you get chapters 13 and 15

northwye
May 26th, 2015, 07:36 AM
"The Bible says that these beasts, from Daniel, will be kingdoms during the time that Jesus returns."

The symmetry of four beast empires before the Cross and four after the Cross and the two previous empires before the four in Daniel 2 and the two previous ones after the Cross coming before that quartet in Daniel 7 imply that the empires of Daniel 7 will exist when Christ returns. Revelation 13: 1-3, though, does not say that all four of the beasts of Daniel 7 are in complete power in the period of time after the Cross when Revelation 13 is fulfilled.

Revelation 13: 2 says "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

The first beast of Revelation 13 is said to be like three of the four beast kingdoms in Daniel 7, not that it is all four empires of Daniel 7.

Like is from the Greek omoios, or homoios Strong's number 3664, from 3674, meaning "similar in character or appearance, like..."

It is true that the four empires of the statute dream of Daniel 2 - Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome all interacted with Old Covenant Israel.

In rejecting the four Daniel 7 beast empires as being after the Cross, the Capital C Church (not everyone but most in the churches) is failing to understand that after the Cross Israel still exists. The four beast kingdoms of Daniel 7 interact with Israel of the New Covenant, just as the four statute empires of Daniel 2 interacted with Old Covenant Israel.

In dispensationalism God has two peoples, the Capital C Church and Old Covenant Israel. This rejects the message of Jeremiah 18: 1-6, that Old Covenant Israel was not replaced by the Capital C Church nor does it stand alongside the Capital C Church, but that Israel as the one people of God was remade.

The Capital C Church, is different from the small c church, which is more like Tyndale's congregations in his 1526 English translation of the Textus Receptus, retaining the meaning of ekklesia as a meeting, assembly or congregation. The Roman Catholic Church is a Capital C Church and so is the dispensationalist Church, which is made to be another people of God, alongside Old Covenant Israel (in dispensationalism).

"And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it...........6. O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel." Jeremiah 18: 4, 6

The remaking of the vessel, Israel, is a foundational doctrine of the New Covenant, though subtle as a strand that runs through the Gospel of Christ. The New Covenant of Jesus Christ was opposed by the multitude of the earlier version of the vessel, Old Covenant Israel. It was not opposed by the remnant of Israel (Romans 11: 1-5).

“Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?” Romans 9:20.

“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonor?” Romans 9:21.

Israel was remade, changed or transformed by God into the New Covenant, and so Israel exists as the one people of God (John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5, Ephesians 4: 4) in the timeline after the Cross and will exist when Christ returns.

What Revelation 13: 1-3 is saying is that the first beast of Revelation is a composite of an empire which has the traits of the lion, bear and leopard empires of Daniel 7 and is somehow allied with the head of the beast whose deadly wound was healed, which is the Little Horn found in Daniel 7: 8, immediately following the four beast empires. Since the first beast of Revelation 13 is said to be like the lion, bear and leopard empires and that fourth empire of Daniel 7: 7 is not mentioned there, it is implied that the first beast as a composite is somehow that "fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly..."

What nation on the scene during the reign of the lion, bear and leopard empires has traits of all three of these empires? That nation grew out of the lion empire, has had Marxist influences during the 20th century, and incorporated former Nazi operatives into its intelligence apparatus as part of the national security state. It became the national security state (1947) though it was once a constitutional republic.

chrysostom
May 26th, 2015, 07:41 AM
"The Bible says that these beasts, from Daniel, will be kingdoms during the time that Jesus returns."

where?

chrysostom
June 1st, 2015, 09:49 AM
unanswered questions

chrysostom
June 18th, 2015, 03:17 AM
there are only two beasts in the apocalypse
but
I think they are the last two of daniel

chrysostom
June 18th, 2015, 06:24 AM
I have found something that might fit this

Daniel 11:6King James Version (KJV)

6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

Leo IV the Khazar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_IV_the_Khazar)

Khazars (https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Khazars#Islam)

what do you think?

chrysostom
July 15th, 2015, 09:11 AM
first thing to do is look for the

Abomination of desolation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_desolation)

the re-dedication of the Temple to Zeus by Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 BC,

the worship of the Roman Standards on the Temple Mount under Titus in 70 AD
and
the building of the Dome of the Rock (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome_of_the_Rock) by the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan in 691 AD.

which one did Jesus refer to?

in matthew 24:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+24%3A2&version=KJV) Jesus is clearly referring to the destruction of the temple in 70 ad

in matthew 24:15 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+24%3A15&version=KJV) Jesus must be referring to the dome of the rock

the umayyad caliph (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_Caliphate) must be the king of the north

so

who is the king of the south?

and

who is his daughter?

ali (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_as_Caliph) who married fatimah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimah) the daughter of mohammed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad) fought with muawiyah, the first umayyad caliph, for control of the islamic empire

muawiyah (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muawiyah_I) won and moved the capital north to damascus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus)

chrysostom
July 16th, 2015, 10:25 AM
has anyone heard a more reasonable explanation for the king of the south?

during the last half of the seventh century
there was a continuous battle for control of islam
between
what would become the sunnis of the north
and
the shiites of the south

the shiites wanted a descendant of mohammed to rule

chrysostom
July 20th, 2015, 09:54 AM
you get this Rashidun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashidun)
if
you search rightly guided

"They were all close companions of Muhammad, and his relatives: the daughters of Abu Bakr and Umar were married to Muhammad, and three of Muhammad's daughters[citation needed] were married to Uthman and Ali. Likewise, their succession was not hereditary, something that would become the custom after them, beginning with the subsequent Umayyad Caliphate. Council decision or caliph's choice determined the successor originally."

daniel 11 is all about the struggle for control after mohammed, the king of the south died

chrysostom
October 13th, 2015, 11:00 AM
the king of the south will help determine the four beasts

chrysostom
November 4th, 2015, 03:09 PM
the four beasts

the two beasts of the apocalypse are the last two beasts of daniel

the beasts of Daniel (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77338)

daniel 11 (king of the south) (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4385100#post4385100)


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

the king of the south started the fourth beast

chrysostom
November 14th, 2015, 09:57 AM
the four beast all had something to do with the temple

it all makes sense

chrysostom
December 3rd, 2015, 07:59 AM
beasts are empires

they are the bad guys

many don't get that

chrysostom
December 24th, 2015, 05:25 AM
the king of the south is mohammed

chrysostom
January 15th, 2016, 07:47 AM
it is hard to interpret parts of the bible without being politically incorrect
but
somebody has to do it

chrysostom
February 5th, 2016, 06:27 AM
the church will never identify islam as the fourth beast

SaulToPaul
February 5th, 2016, 07:22 AM
the church will never identify islam as the fourth beast

:chuckle:

KingdomRose
February 5th, 2016, 06:41 PM
the four beasts

the two beasts of the apocalypse are the last two beasts of daniel

the beasts of Daniel (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77338)

daniel 11 (king of the south) (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4385100#post4385100)


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

For what I believe is the best answer for all questions about the "beasts," go to this awesome website: www.jw.org

Go to the upper right-hand corner where you see "Search." Type in what you want.


:D

chrysostom
February 28th, 2016, 05:23 AM
-so who do you think
-is
-the king of the south?

SaulToPaul
February 29th, 2016, 11:02 AM
-so who do you think
-is
-the king of the south?

What does the Magisterium say?

chrysostom
March 26th, 2016, 05:08 AM
What does the Magisterium say?

the church does not have an official position on this
-but
-others are encouraged to research this
-the church is necessarily politically correct
-so
-you won't hear any suggestions that islam is a beast
-you might hear catholic writers suggest
-Antiochus IV Epiphanes
-as the king of the south
-I consider that ridiculous

chrysostom
April 7th, 2016, 06:29 AM
politically correct people do not name beasts

SonOfCaleb
April 7th, 2016, 08:37 AM
-so who do you think
-is
-the king of the south?

The USA.The identity of the King of the North isn't fully known yet.....But in my opinion it may be Russia.

chrysostom
April 30th, 2016, 02:24 AM
The USA.The identity of the King of the North isn't fully known yet.....But in my opinion it may be Russia.

what about the abomination of desolation?

Wick Stick
May 2nd, 2016, 12:01 PM
-so who do you think
-is
-the king of the south?
You are correct that the beasts are empires, and baddies. You just connected the dots in the wrong order.

The Egyptian empire of the Ptolemies was the "king of the south." It is NOT the 4th beast.

The "king of the north" was the Seleucid empire. THIS is the 4th beast.

The abomination that causes desolation is a man sitting in the temple, showing everyone that he is God. 2Thess 2:3-4.

This did not happen with Islam. It did happen with the Seleucids. It happened again in the first century when Eleazar ben Simon made the Zealot's headquarters in the Temple in the months preceding the Roman's siege of the city.

Jarrod

SaulToPaul
May 2nd, 2016, 12:04 PM
I agree with Wick Stick. It is the abomination that maketh desolate, not the abomination that sits in the place that was made desolate much earlier. Chrys is just stubborn and conveniently leaves out details.

chrysostom
May 2nd, 2016, 12:23 PM
You are correct that the beasts are empires, and baddies. You just connected the dots in the wrong order.

The Egyptian empire of the Ptolemies was the "king of the south." It is NOT the 4th beast.

The "king of the north" was the Seleucid empire. THIS is the 4th beast.

The abomination that causes desolation is a man sitting in the temple, showing everyone that he is God. 2Thess 2:3-4.

This did not happen with Islam. It did happen with the Seleucids. It happened again in the first century when Eleazar ben Simon made the Zealot's headquarters in the Temple in the months preceding the Roman's siege of the city.

Jarrod

what is in the holy place now?

SaulToPaul
May 2nd, 2016, 12:53 PM
what is in the holy place now?

The abomination that maketh desolate.
Details ignored...

Wick Stick
May 2nd, 2016, 03:16 PM
what is in the holy place now?
Not the dome of the rock. It's standing in the place of the Fortress Antonia.

As for what is in that place... not a whole heck of a lot...

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/wall-jerusalem-old-city-near-dung-gate-22468448.jpg

chrysostom
May 2nd, 2016, 03:18 PM
Not the dome of the rock. It's standing in the place of the Fortress Antonia.

As for what is in that place... not a whole heck of a lot...

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/wall-jerusalem-old-city-near-dung-gate-22468448.jpg

so why don't they build the temple?

Wick Stick
May 2nd, 2016, 03:32 PM
so why don't they build the temple?
More than one reason... from animal cruelty statutes to not wanting to foment a civil war.

But mostly because a majority of Jews are now atheists, and the ones who aren't, are rabbinical (believing that the synagogue and rabbis have replaced the temple and priests.)

You should study up on that... the movement away from priests and temples actually pre-dates the New Testament. The Essenes were writing about wicked priests and righteous teachers in the 2nd century BC, and the Book of Enoch comes right out and says that God replaced the lineage of priests with a succession of shepherds.

Jarrod

chrysostom
May 2nd, 2016, 03:52 PM
More than one reason... from animal cruelty statutes to not wanting to foment a civil war.

But mostly because a majority of Jews are now atheists, and the ones who aren't, are rabbinical (believing that the synagogue and rabbis have replaced the temple and priests.)

You should study up on that... the movement away from priests and temples actually pre-dates the New Testament. The Essenes were writing about wicked priests and righteous teachers in the 2nd century BC, and the Book of Enoch comes right out and says that God replaced the lineage of priests with a succession of shepherds.

Jarrod

wake up to reality
-the dome is preventing the temple

Wick Stick
May 2nd, 2016, 05:20 PM
wake up to reality
-the dome is preventing the temple
The reality is that rebuilding the Jewish temple is a Christian pre-occupation more than a Jewish one.

The people in Israel are more concerned with things like terrorism within their own borders, the scientific advancement of enemy nations towards nuclear weapons, and whether Dragan Bender will leave Maccabi for the NBA.

Jarrod

chrysostom
May 2nd, 2016, 05:22 PM
The reality is that rebuilding the Jewish temple is a Christian pre-occupation more than a Jewish one.


the dome is preventing the temple

Wick Stick
May 2nd, 2016, 05:38 PM
the dome is preventing the temple
And yet, not one damn word about that on any of the major Israeli-based news outlets...

http://www.jpost.com/

http://www.ynetnews.com/

http://www.haaretz.com/

http://www.timesofisrael.com/

SonOfCaleb
May 5th, 2016, 04:14 AM
what about the abomination of desolation?

That refers to organized Christendom and by extension organised religion also.

chrysostom
June 6th, 2016, 04:07 AM
all the beasts had something to do with the temple

chrysostom
June 29th, 2016, 01:14 PM
you should be able to recognize a beast

SaulToPaul
June 30th, 2016, 09:05 AM
you should be able to recognize a beast

:chuckle:

chrysostom
July 25th, 2016, 06:15 AM
too many beasts in the kjv
-that is their problem

SaulToPaul
July 25th, 2016, 09:25 AM
too many beasts in the kjv
-that is their problem

:chuckle:

chrysostom
August 10th, 2016, 04:46 AM
the kjv has 296 beasts -
the niv has 87

SaulToPaul
August 10th, 2016, 05:46 AM
the kjv has 296 beasts -
the niv has 87

how many tests does the NIV have?

chrysostom
September 21st, 2016, 09:57 AM
how many tests does the NIV have?

245

SaulToPaul
September 21st, 2016, 10:31 AM
245

How many Mark 1:2 (NIV) does the NIV have?

chrysostom
September 29th, 2016, 04:10 AM
we need more tests
-and-
fewer beasts

chrysostom
October 13th, 2016, 05:40 AM
the four beasts

the two beasts of the apocalypse are the last two beasts of daniel

the beasts of Daniel (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77338)

daniel 11 (king of the south) (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4385100#post4385100)


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

"and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+7:7&version=KJV)"

chrysostom
October 24th, 2016, 03:46 AM
"and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+7:7&version=KJV)"

this is the key to understanding who that fourth beast is
-and-
I mean is

chrysostom
October 31st, 2016, 06:52 AM
the beasts have one thing in common
-
they messed with the temple

chrysostom
November 8th, 2016, 08:12 AM
it should be clear what the beast is today

chrysostom
November 21st, 2016, 07:17 AM
the abomination of desolation is now in the holy place
-and-
it has been there for over 13 centuries

the beast like no other put it there
-and-
that beast is still with us

chrysostom
December 5th, 2016, 06:21 AM
this beast will take peace from the earth

SaulToPaul
December 5th, 2016, 10:13 AM
this beast will take peace from the earth

When has there ever been peace on earth?

chrysostom
December 14th, 2016, 03:53 AM
When has there ever been peace on earth?

there has always been peace on earth - somewhere - it is a big place

SaulToPaul
December 14th, 2016, 07:20 AM
there has always been peace on earth - somewhere - it is a big place

:chuckle:

chrysostom
December 26th, 2016, 06:43 AM
:chuckle:

thanks for watching

chrysostom
January 6th, 2017, 05:21 PM
the four beasts

the two beasts of the apocalypse are the last two beasts of daniel

the beasts of Daniel (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77338)

daniel 11 (king of the south) (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4385100#post4385100)


back to
the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102616)

islam is the fourth beast of daniel
-
the second beast of the apocalypse

chrysostom
January 24th, 2017, 06:01 AM
all four beasts had something to do with the temple

chrysostom
February 25th, 2017, 05:00 AM
there are a lot of beasts
-but-
not as many as there are in the kjv
-so-
there must be something special about the four daniel talks about

chrysostom
March 25th, 2017, 03:32 AM
tom holland wrote shadow of the sword (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Shadow_of_the_Sword_(book))
-
suggests islam is the fourth beast of daniel
-
that would make the roman empire the third one

Zeke
March 25th, 2017, 07:42 AM
all four beasts had something to do with the temple
Yea and that temple is in man, made of living stones.

Sent from my A462C using TheologyOnline mobile app ('https://siteowners.tapatalk.com/byo/displayAndDownloadByoApp?rid=78367')

chrysostom
April 27th, 2017, 03:27 AM
Yea and that temple is in man,


I am referring to the jewish temple -
both were destroyed -
there will not be a third one

chrysostom
May 30th, 2017, 04:43 AM
to take peace from the earth -
we have islam -
the fourth beast of daniel

SaulToPaul
May 30th, 2017, 06:21 AM
to take peace from the earth -
we have islam -
the fourth beast of daniel

:chuckle:

Zeke
May 30th, 2017, 08:32 AM
I am referring to the jewish temple -
both were destroyed -
there will not be a third one

Daniel is about the former, latter, and appointed times for the transition of the earthly man Matt 11:11 into the heavenly man 1Cor 15:44-45, the beast being the carnal will in man Romans 7:14-15, which is also the place of the kingdom of the God in scripture that experiences good and evil Luke 17:20-21, its not secular history that is observable to the earthly man who is taught these things are literal events that happened when they are symbolic and foreshadows of the spiritual substance that cast these allegorical shadows Galatians 4:24, 2Cor 3:6 is the only divide in scripture, one is understood by carnal intellect and kills the spiritual meaning, the other is by revelation Galatians 1:12 and mocked by the earthly man who looks outside himself for salvation, 1Cor 3:16, Galatians 4:20-28 is about the transition Daniel and John seen spiritually Revelation 1:10 concerning the tribulation we go through to reach 1Cor 15:44-45.

You're chasing the things under the sun Ecclesiastes 1:9, John 18:36, wake up Luke 15:17.

chrysostom
May 30th, 2017, 09:02 AM
its not secular history that is observable to the earthly man
how is prophecy fulfilled?
-and-
how can man confirm it?

chrysostom
July 5th, 2017, 05:14 AM
islam is acting like a beast -

SaulToPaul
July 5th, 2017, 05:51 AM
islam is the fourth beast of daniel



:chuckle:

chrysostom
August 4th, 2017, 02:19 AM
:chuckle:

thanks for watching

chrysostom
August 26th, 2017, 05:40 AM
keep watching

Epoisses
August 27th, 2017, 04:25 PM
islam is acting like a beast -

The beasts of Daniel and Revelation are fallen angels not fallen nations. Today the world is being bombarded with the UFO/alien propaganda with every block buster movie having some kind of alien invasion theme in it. All this is meant to prep the world for the end-times when Satan and his angels appear as gods of the major religions of the world. Satan himself will come as Christ and his subordinates will likely appear as Elijah, Mary, Mohammad, Buddha etc. If a fallen angel appeared as Mohammad do you think all the Muslims would do what he said? You better believe they would and it wont be good!