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patrick jane
August 30th, 2015, 01:41 PM
what's up with arsenicios

Caino
August 30th, 2015, 04:12 PM
what already happened?

give us some examples


"The war in heaven" already happened, Michael (aka Jesus) and his angels already defeated the dragon and his angels while Michael was incarnate on earth.

But much of revelation is a hacked up mess, edited by opocolyptic writers.

The original gospel of Love, tolerance and forgiveness will eventually be preached again and subdue the world, not a violent God smashing up nations.

Interplanner
August 30th, 2015, 04:24 PM
"The war in heaven" already happened, Michael (aka Jesus) and his angels already defeated the dragon and his angels while Michael was incarnate on earth.

But much of revelation is a hacked up mess, edited by opocolyptic writers.

The original gospel of Love, tolerance and forgiveness will eventually be preached again and subdue the world, not a violent God smashing up nations.


What is evidence or who are authors who find the Rev to be rewritten?

I don't know about general tolerance in Jesus' Gospel; there are some very pointed statements. However, one thing is true--the final day of judgement is not a set of battles on earth. There is no way that would come out fair, or judge individuals as the final judgement will. Rom 2 is surprising to Judaism because all nations (individuals in them) get treated equally. All judgement is through Christ.

2 Peter 3 also has no Judaic-favor battles with nations. It is the longest complete statement about the day of judgement.

Material in Mt 24 etc about Judea was about the catastrophe of the destruction of Israel in 66-70.

Caino
August 30th, 2015, 06:19 PM
What is evidence or who are authors who find the Rev to be rewritten?

I don't know about general tolerance in Jesus' Gospel; there are some very pointed statements. However, one thing is true--the final day of judgement is not a set of battles on earth. There is no way that would come out fair, or judge individuals as the final judgement will. Rom 2 is surprising to Judaism because all nations (individuals in them) get treated equally. All judgement is through Christ.

2 Peter 3 also has no Judaic-favor battles with nations. It is the longest complete statement about the day of judgement.

Material in Mt 24 etc about Judea was about the catastrophe of the destruction of Israel in 66-70.

I agree with Martin Luthers early opinion on Revelation "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and "Christ is not found in it." He would later have a change of heart, but I'm not sure that he ever figured out what revelation revealed.

In my theology the Urantia Book reveals what the BOR originally revealed but did not survive intact. Some material was removed, other material added by opocolyptic writers.

A book of revelation should at least reveal something.

achduke
August 30th, 2015, 06:39 PM
"The war in heaven" already happened, Michael (aka Jesus) and his angels already defeated the dragon and his angels while Michael was incarnate on earth.

But much of revelation is a hacked up mess, edited by opocolyptic writers.

The original gospel of Love, tolerance and forgiveness will eventually be preached again and subdue the world, not a violent God smashing up nations.

Michael is an angel. How can Christ be made lower then the angels if he is an angel?

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

Interplanner
August 30th, 2015, 06:40 PM
I agree with Martin Luthers early opinion on Revelation "neither apostolic nor prophetic" and "Christ is not found in it." He would later have a change of heart, but I'm not sure that he ever figured out what revelation revealed.

In my theology the Urantia Book reveals what the BOR originally revealed but did not survive intact. Some material was removed, other material added by opocolyptic writers.

A book of revelation should at least reveal something.


Let me give you the historical approach. (This is not going to be historical progression through the centuries).
1, the 7 churches were the Christians in Judea who needed to escape from Judea in the late 60s; many went to be near the best known apostles, in Little Asia (modern western Turkey).
2, the Rev is a revelation of CHRIST, as it says. Most people read that and think it was saying of final events. It is revealing that Christ is Lord of history even when the worst of persecution happens.
3, the beast is Rome, but riding on the beast is something even more insidious for the 1st century believer: Jerusalem/Judaism/Israel. Many Roman cities had leaders who were Jewish who thrived there, helped the city like Daniel (seek the prosperity of the city where I take you), and believed that the messianic age was that of taking the torah to the nations.
4, the harlot harms the believers. But eventually the beast turns on the harlot and ruins her. That's the destruction of Jerusalem.
5, with the harlot out of the way (stoned), Christ and the bride can marry. However, even if John wrote this in the late 60s (during the DofJ) or right after, Paul had already said the marriage had taken place. Perhaps now, John meant, the bride can thrive on earth, without the harrassment of Judaism which was profoundly minimized. But the city to which Christ is married never quite lands on earth, either in John's visions or in Paul (Gal 4, or Heb 12). It is hovering above.
6, at the end of time all the world will be judged and the result will be life in the NHNE or destruction.

The Rev is not a prediction of world events. It is not a 'safe' Nostradamus scroll. It is not prognostication. It is a pastoral vision to tell believers that Christ will be victor over all things thrown at the believers. Those would be believers who had lost children, parents, spouses, friends, to Judaism or Rome.

The delay of the final judgement of God was a question as large as the inclusion of the Gentiles. Mt 24 etc indicates it would happen right after the awful destruction of Jerusalem. But it also allows a delay, as does Mark and Peter. Luke (with Paul) does not. Paul is always referring to a very short time frame and return of Christ. But as you know, 2 Peter 3 is written specifically to deal with the objection of the delay of the coming (surely that cannot be the 1st coming...). The delay was the greatest question for the remaining apostles after the DofJ, but as Lattourrette shows, there is nothing conclusive other than 2 Peter 3. We are simply in a delayed return period.

Caino
August 31st, 2015, 04:23 AM
Let me give you the historical approach. (This is not going to be historical progression through the centuries).
1, the 7 churches were the Christians in Judea who needed to escape from Judea in the late 60s; many went to be near the best known apostles, in Little Asia (modern western Turkey).
2, the Rev is a revelation of CHRIST, as it says. Most people read that and think it was saying of final events. It is revealing that Christ is Lord of history even when the worst of persecution happens.
3, the beast is Rome, but riding on the beast is something even more insidious for the 1st century believer: Jerusalem/Judaism/Israel. Many Roman cities had leaders who were Jewish who thrived there, helped the city like Daniel (seek the prosperity of the city where I take you), and believed that the messianic age was that of taking the torah to the nations.
4, the harlot harms the believers. But eventually the beast turns on the harlot and ruins her. That's the destruction of Jerusalem.
5, with the harlot out of the way (stoned), Christ and the bride can marry. However, even if John wrote this in the late 60s (during the DofJ) or right after, Paul had already said the marriage had taken place. Perhaps now, John meant, the bride can thrive on earth, without the harrassment of Judaism which was profoundly minimized. But the city to which Christ is married never quite lands on earth, either in John's visions or in Paul (Gal 4, or Heb 12). It is hovering above.
6, at the end of time all the world will be judged and the result will be life in the NHNE or destruction.

The Rev is not a prediction of world events. It is not a 'safe' Nostradamus scroll. It is not prognostication. It is a pastoral vision to tell believers that Christ will be victor over all things thrown at the believers. Those would be believers who had lost children, parents, spouses, friends, to Judaism or Rome.

The delay of the final judgement of God was a question as large as the inclusion of the Gentiles. Mt 24 etc indicates it would happen right after the awful destruction of Jerusalem. But it also allows a delay, as does Mark and Peter. Luke (with Paul) does not. Paul is always referring to a very short time frame and return of Christ. But as you know, 2 Peter 3 is written specifically to deal with the objection of the delay of the coming (surely that cannot be the 1st coming...). The delay was the greatest question for the remaining apostles after the DofJ, but as Lattourrette shows, there is nothing conclusive other than 2 Peter 3. We are simply in a delayed return period.

That's one school of speculation.

The kingdom established by Jesus and the original gospel that inaugurated it, was spiritual. It consisted of those who by faith realized the Fatherhood of God of ALL mankind, and the resulting brotherhood of believers in this Kingdom. [Jesus' audience had thought of God as a national God, now Jesus revealed that he is a personal God, even a loving father to each individual.]

For now The Kingdom of Heaven ideal embodied in Jesus' teachings has largly failed as his followers were unable to remain true to his teachings.

The erroneous ideas of a Jewish Messiah, a kind of preist, prophet, King, taking up David's corrupt political seat and ruling the world from material Israel, has contaminated the expectations of the return (visit) of Christ. The re-Sanhedrin, sect divided Christian Church, became a substitute for the spiritual brotherhood of Jesus.

The kingdom was always to be spiritual, the king would be God in the heart of the believer. The world will radically change but not all at once in one cataclysmic event. As we return to the original gospel it will eventually subdue the heart, the neighborhood, the nations, the world.

The delay is the contamination of the original gospel OF Jesus that became a gospel ABOUT Jesus. But that was to be expected, a gallon cannot fit into a quart. There will be many ages to come, thousands, even tens of thousands of years before the world completed its attitude adjustment and settled into the age of light and life.


From the vantage point of that future age, looking back retrospectively, the prophets will then be understood:







The Mountain of the Lord

…And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; That He may teach us concerning His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war. Come, house of Jacob, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

This world is not the home of the Son, we will go to where he is.

chrysostom
September 3rd, 2015, 09:23 AM
still reading isaac newton
and
you can search it here (https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/newton_isaac/prophecies/apocalypse01.cfm)

this is an interesting comment by him

"All which is as much as to say, that these Prophecies of Daniel and John should not be understood till the time of the end: but then some should prophesy out of them in an afflicted and mournful state for a long time, and that but darkly, so as to convert but few. But in the very end, the Prophecy should be so far interpreted as to convince many."

chrysostom
September 4th, 2015, 03:22 AM
still reading isaac newton
and
you can search it here (https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/newton_isaac/prophecies/apocalypse01.cfm)

this is another interesting comment by him

"Amongst the Interpreters of the last age there is scarce one of note who hath not made some discovery worth knowing; and thence I seem to gather that God is about opening these mysteries. The success of others put me upon considering it; and if I have done any thing which may be useful to following writers, I have my design. "

Totton Linnet
September 6th, 2015, 09:33 PM
still reading isaac newton
and
you can search it here (https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/newton_isaac/prophecies/apocalypse01.cfm)

this is another interesting comment by him

"Amongst the Interpreters of the last age there is scarce one of note who hath not made some discovery worth knowing; and thence I seem to gather that God is about opening these mysteries. The success of others put me upon considering it; and if I have done any thing which may be useful to following writers, I have my design. "

That is a terrific saying....of course the 16/17th centuries were centuries of revelation.

Interplanner
September 6th, 2015, 09:50 PM
Revelation of what? Do you mean more of the future was revealed than before? Do you think the Revelation is of Christ or of Future Events?

chrysostom
September 7th, 2015, 04:17 AM
Revelation of what? Do you mean more of the future was revealed than before? Do you think the Revelation is of Christ or of Future Events?

it may have been revealed to you
if
you have understanding

Interplanner
September 7th, 2015, 08:54 AM
it may have been revealed to you
if
you have understanding



I don't think you realize what happened in those centuries. Justification by faith was rediscovered, which means the priesthood of believers was rediscovered, and the Papacy could not stop the dominoes after that. When they got to eschatology, the Reformers did not have pet theories about what nation was who from the Rev. Instead they were soundly doctrinal: they defined antichrist doctrinally. It was the Pope.

There is historical evidence to show that the "Reformation" actually had more agreement that the Pope was AC than they did on the Gospel!

This in turn sparked the Counter Reformation. The scholar Ribera was a Jesuit who was commissioned to write an eschatology that deflected what the Reformation was saying about the Pope. That eschatological scheme is futurism. It contains a future Jewish AC at the temple in Israel. Sound familiar? The Pope's face was saved.

Moving on one century further, this made things very sore between Protestants and Catholics. In the mid 1800s the Brethren Movement was finding themselves in the middle of the friction and writing material that stopped calling the Pope AC. That is how futurism re-entered the Protestant movement. It's Darby, Nelson, Scofield, etc. And that's why.

chrysostom
October 19th, 2015, 05:22 AM
the time is near

how do you know?

threads are disappearing

is that a sign?

I think so

Puppet
October 19th, 2015, 11:03 AM
the time is near

how do you know?

threads are disappearing

is that a sign?

I think so

It's not a good sign if I'm reading this

Wick Stick
October 26th, 2015, 01:26 PM
Do you always talk to yourself?

I suppose it is appropriate to a study of Revelation, since the book is a combination of Apocryphon and dialogue discussing/explaining it.

Jarrod

chrysostom
November 9th, 2015, 08:35 AM
why do you talk to yourself?

dialogue is difficult here at tol

why is that?

I can only speculate

I love it when you speculate

reason and logic

what about reason and logic?

it is not being used

is that part of thinking?

a necessary part

ok doser
November 9th, 2015, 08:44 AM
dialogue is difficult here at tol

why is that?

i depends how you attempt to dialogue

consider posting nothing but pictures of bunnies - that seems to be pretty popular

here - i'll start you off:

http://1000uglypeople.com/wp-content/uploads/Rabbit-Teeth-Fugly-Boy.jpg

patrick jane
November 9th, 2015, 09:06 AM
why do you talk to yourself?

dialogue is difficult here at tol

why is that?

I can only speculate

I love it when you speculate

reason and logic

what about reason and logic?

it is not being used

is that part of thinking?

a necessary part

issues

ok doser
November 9th, 2015, 09:08 AM
http://cdn.meme.am/instances/61968203.jpg

chrysostom
November 9th, 2015, 09:12 AM
the apocalypse

666 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962902#post3962902)
antipas (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3986856#post3986856)
armageddon (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4020185#post4020185)
babylon the great (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962960#post3962960)
new jerusalem (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3984999#post3984999)
the four horsemen (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962734#post3962734)
the little book (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3968814#post3968814)
the seven heads (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77340)
the ten horns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102648)
the thousand years (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3966309#post3966309)
the three johns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3967530#post3967530)
the two beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4428633#post4428633)
the two witnesses (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4006891#post4006891)
timeline of the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105824)

the jerome biblical commentary (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4344495#post4344495)

the futurists (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105258)
recapitulation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3964046#post3964046)
the abomination of desolation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4346339#post4346339)
the four beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962720#post3962720)

coming soon


now under construction

still under construction

please don't delete

chrysostom
November 27th, 2015, 05:52 AM
the time is near

Interplanner
November 27th, 2015, 09:28 AM
Ahh, another "official" treatment of the Rev. How many of these will be done before people realize it is not a prognostication of world events?

chrysostom
November 27th, 2015, 10:32 AM
Ahh, another "official" treatment of the Rev. How many of these will be done before people realize it is not a prognostication of world events?

excuse me

nowhere have I predicted future events

all you will find here
are
historical events that seem to fit what was prophesied

daqq
November 28th, 2015, 04:43 AM
excuse me

nowhere have I predicted future events

all you will find here
are
historical events that seem to fit what was prophesied

The so-called literal physical "historical" interpretation is fallacy:

Jeremiah 43:8-13 - Ezekiel 29:17-21 - Ezekiel 30:10-19

Therefore I say:

Revelation 17:16-17 KJV
16. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Nbuwkadre'tsar the terrible is on his way, O Egypt, great of flesh, (Eze 16:26 KJV). :crackup: :chuckle:

chrysostom
December 17th, 2015, 03:37 AM
only history can confirm a prophecy

daqq
December 17th, 2015, 05:53 AM
only history can confirm a prophecy

Show me in history where Nebuchadnezzar fulfilled anything from my previous post:

Jeremiah 43:8-13 KJV
8. Then came the word of the Lord unto Jeremiah in Tahpanhes, saying,
9. Take great stones in thine hand, and hide them in the clay in the brickkiln, which is at the entry of Pharaoh's house in Tahpanhes, in the sight of the men of Judah;
10. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.
11. And when he cometh, he shall smite the land of Egypt, and deliver such as are for death to death; and such as are for captivity to captivity; and such as are for the sword to the sword.
12. And I will kindle a fire in the houses of the gods of Egypt; and he shall burn them, and carry them away captives: and he shall array himself with the land of Egypt, as a shepherd putteth on his garment; and he shall go forth from thence in peace.
13. He shall break also the images of Bethshemesh, that is in the land of Egypt; and the houses of the gods of the Egyptians shall he burn with fire. [Rev 17:16-17]

Ezekiel 29:17-21 KJV
17. And it came to pass in the seven and twentieth year, in the first month, in the first day of the month, the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
18. Son of man, Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it:
19. Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will give the land of Egypt unto Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon; and he shall take her multitude, and take her spoil, and take her prey; and it shall be the wages for his army.
20. I have given him the land of Egypt for his labour wherewith he served against it, because they wrought for me, saith the Lord God.
21. In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the Lord.

These things never happened in history, in fact, it was the Persians who finally defeated and subjugated Egypt. Know why? These things, (and others prophecies such as Ezekiel 30:10-19) were never intended for the literal man who is known as Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon. See the difference in the spelling? This one is Nbuwkadre'tsar the terrible, of the heathen, and he comes with those hasty Chaldeans of Habakkuk 1:6, (which are Legion) who come to possess dwellings that are not their own, (the man is the house). :chuckle:

chrysostom
December 17th, 2015, 05:56 AM
These things never happened in history,

how can you know that?

do you know the bible that well?
do you know history that well?

I don't think so

daqq
December 17th, 2015, 06:14 AM
how can you know that?

do you know the bible that well?
do you know history that well?

I don't think so

No historian or historical record shows any evidence of Nebuchadnezzar 2 invading and conquering Egypt and especially not in the way it has been foretold in the passages I quoted and referenced herein above. It is not that the Scripture is wrong but rather misunderstood. Don't allow the carnal physical dimension to pull the proverbial wool over your eyes: God is SPIRIT and His Word is Spirit.

This is from the first page of a simple search just now: :)
http://sanityquestpublishing.com/essays/BabEgypt.html (http://sanityquestpublishing.com/essays/BabEgypt.html)

Please note, (I glanced at it) they also have the wrong spelling! :crackup:

Arsenios
December 19th, 2015, 09:07 AM
Ahh, another "official" treatment of the Rev.
How many of these will be done before people realize
it is not a prognostication of world events?


:thumb:

A lovely spark cast into a dark maelstrom...

What the darkness cannot overcome...

It either ignores or kills...

Arsenios

chrysostom
January 11th, 2016, 06:31 AM
the time is near

chrysostom
January 18th, 2016, 05:51 AM
books used in my research

Angold, Michael ”Byzantium” St. Martin's Press
Armstrong, Karen ”Islam - A Short History” Modern Library
Aune, David ”Revelation”
Baur, Chrysostomus ”John Chrysostom and His Time”
Beale, G ”The Book of Revelation”
Beckwith, ”Apocalyse of John”
Butler, Daniel ”The First Jihad” Casemate Publishers
Byron, Robert ”The Byzantine Achievement”
Capponi, Niccolo "Victory of The West" Da Capo Press
Charles, R ”Studies in the Apocalypse” Wipf and Stock Publishers
Durant, Will ”Caesar and Christ” MJF Books
Emmerson, Richard ”The Apocalypse in the Middle Ages” Cornell
Esposito, John ”The Oxford History of Islam” Oxford University Press
Finkel, Caroline ”Osman's Dream” Perseus Books Group
Ford, Josephine ”Revelation”
Freely, John ”Istanbul - The Imperial City” Viking - Penguin Books USA
Fregosi, Paul ”Jihad in the West” Prometheus Books
Gibbon, Edward ”The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire”
Glubb, John ”A Short History of the Arab Peoples” Dorset Press
Grant, Michael ”The Roman Emperors” Barnes & Noble
Gregg, Steve ”Revelation - Four Views” Thomas Nelson Publishers
Gwynn, John ”The Apocalypse of St. John” APA - Philo Press Amsterdam
Haldon, J ”Byzantium in the Seventh Century”
Harris, Jonathan "Constantinople: Capital of Byzantium" Hambledon Continuum
Haussig, H ”A History of Byzantine Civilization”
Herrin, Judith ”Byzantium” Princeton University Press
Holland, Tom "In the Shadow of the Sword" Doubleday
Hopkins, T. C. F. ”Empires, Wars, and Battles” Tom Doherty Associates
Kaegi, Walter ”Army, Society and Religion in Byzantium”
Kaegi, Walter ”Byzantium and the early Islam conquests” Cambridge
Krey, Philip ”Nicholas of Lyra's Apocalypse Commentary”
Lecky, William ”History of European Morals”
Lewis, Bernard ”The Crisis of Islam” Modern Library
Lewis, David Levering "God's Crucible" W W Norton
Maier, Paul ”Eusebius - The Church History” Kregel Publications
Mango, Cyril ”The Oxford History of Byzantium” Oxford University Press
Mazower, Mark "The Balkans - A Short History" Modern Library
Miceli, Vincent ”The Antichrist” Roman Catholic Books
Norwich, John ”Byzantium - The Early Centuries” Alfred A. Knopf
Norwich, John “Byzantium - A Short History of - Alfred A. Knopf
O'Shea, Stephen ”Sea of Faith” Walker and Company
Ostrogorsky, George ”History of the Byzantine State” Rutgers Univ Press
Pagden, Anthony ”Worlds at War” Random House
Palmer, Andrew ”The Seventh Century in the West-Syrian Chronicles”
Payne, Robert ”The History of Islam” Dorset Press
Pipes, Daniel ”Militant Islam Reaches America” W. W. Norton & Company
Regan, Geoffrey ”First Crusader - Byzantium's Holy Wars”
Reston, James "Defenders of the Faith"
Ross, Daveed ”My Year Inside Radical Islam” Penguin
Schatkin, Margaret ”Saint John Chrysostom - Apologist”
Thompson, Leonard ”The Book of Revelation” Oxford University Press
Treadgold, Warren ”A History of the Byzantine State and Society”
Weinrich, Willliam ”Revelation, Ancient Christian Commentary”
Wells, Colin "Sailing from Byzantium" Delacorte Press
Worth, Roland ”The Seven Cities of the Apocalypse and Greco-Asian”

chrysostom
February 8th, 2016, 06:41 AM
history is the key
to unlock the door to understanding
we have history
don't ignore it

Flaminggg
February 8th, 2016, 02:02 PM
the apocalypse

666
antipas
armageddon
babylon the great
new jerusalem
the four horsemen
the little book
the seven heads
the ten horns
the thousand years
the three johns
the two beasts
the two witnesses
timeline of the apocalypse

the jerome biblical commentary

the futurists
recapitulation
the abomination of desolation
the four beasts

coming soon


now under construction

books used in my research (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4590051#post4590051)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaKySlVvj1w

The Lifespan of the Antichrist is not the center of Attention, such as with the Prophecy of Daniel concerning Babylon. http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116236]Springing up of the Untoward Generation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116236), to which we will make a statement concerning the Mark of the Beast. ... ... ... ... The Center of Attention in Revelation, is the "Events of Revelation" (2 Days Rainbow, 40 Days, 3 Days Darkness, 150 Days), 2Corin11:24-25.

666 Mark of the Beast, Rev. 9:15
132 Hours = 2 Days of Rainbow + 3 Days and a Half Days of Darkness
190 Days = 40 Days of Tribulation + 150 Days of Star Wormwood
323 Month = 3/23/2016 to begin the 153 Days
21 Year = 2/12/2016 to 3/23/2016 this begins the year or "Events of Revelation" that impacts the Earth (because the earth is impacted, 2 days after the Rainbow, it is called a year, or the Year of Revelation, the Earth is not impacted with the "Rainbow")
Total = 666

Antipas Faithful Martyr, Rev. 2:13
Antipas has not been slain, Rev. 3:7 says the last Church that still stands is Philadelphia, Luke 4:25-26 says the 42 Days that comes before the 153 days, begins at "Septa" that is City of Philadelphia/SEPTA/Market Frankford Line, Arrot Terminal. (Prophecy of Daniel says 2300 Days, or 2 Days for Rainbow and 3 Days for Darkness, or 23 Hours, see below:)

Four Horsemen, Rev. 18:10 (parallel conclusion)
23 Hours = Rev. 18:10 (one hour taken away from 24 Hours in a Day)
1260 Days = Rev. 11:3
42 Months = Rev. 11:2
2000 Years = Rev. 9:16, Mark 5:13
... Spin/Mix the figures around and you obtain 2/12/2016 (begins 40 Days) to 3/23/2016 (begins 153 days).

Seven Heads (More Detail about the Seven SEALS, don't forget the value of human life)
1. Enoch walked with God
2. Elijah revealed with God in the New Testament
3. Moses revealed with God in the New Testament
4. Lazarus taken to God in Abraham's Bosom
5. Jesus revealed with God in the New Testament
6. John wrote about God in Heaven in Revelation
7. Two Witnesses caught up to God in Revelation
...The Apostle John was told to be silent in revelation, so the Sixth SEAL was not opened at that time, it will be opened when the Two Witnesses are Slain, and the Seventh SEAL when the 150 Days begin, when the Antichrist is allowed to reign.

Ten Horns (The Judgment is Doubled)
1-2 = God Head and God
3-4 = Saints and Jesus
5-6 = Holy Spirit and Lamb Slain (or Jesus Slain in the Holy Ghost to identify with Joseph/Babylon)
7-8 = Satan and Babylon (Joseph)
9-10 = Two Witnesses
... The Tenth Kingdom is Babylon (Tenth from Cush in Genesis is Babel, the "Two Witnesses" are another form of Babylon, in which the Covenant is Confirmed)

Little Book (Don't forget the Value of Human Life)
5 Months of Revelation formed the Gospel's Program, 5 Months of Revelation will form the Separatist Inheritances* into the New Universe. This is only for the people that remain in the USA (Home of the Jews or Heart of Judah, where the "Events of Revelation" takes place)

Thousand Years (Whole Body)
1. Heaven
2. Satan
3. Babylon
...The gospel is designed to afford equal potential so God is comparing three whole bodies in Revelation 20.

Three Johns (2 Johns in the New Testament, and John in Revelation?)
God completed his Gospel's Law in the New Testament, and when the work was finished the Third John reconciled the Law from Heaven. Fast Forward to the Antichrist, "Two Witnesses" equation used to confirm the covenant, and then the Antichrist is allowed to reign, the Third Time the Antichrist identifies with the New Heaven, just like John the third time identified with Heaven, as recorded in Revelation.

Two Beasts not the Two Witnesses
Two Beasts = Jesus and Babylon
Two Witnesses = Jesus and Antichrist
...Dehumanization is one of the motivations in "Suicide by Antichrist", a need to kill the Gospel is another motivation, this explains the chemical, electric and behavior treatments in addition to the lethal treatments that are periodically done, none of that means anything. In a few days time, a declaration against Genetic Dan may be made for public safety or they may simply be driven away incoherently from promoting suicide, right now we must keep watch, with these public threats, as this develops. (this is the third time we mentioned, that underestimating the value of human life and the gospel's intention to this effect as a form of simple suicide).

Timeline of the Apocalypse
Lifespan of the Antichrist has an absolute limit, which corresponds to the "Events of Revelation". (Hebrews 4:7, Psalms 78:41). Previous discussion see link near the opening of this reply.

Love and Blessings(the kind of shame and humilation that needs to take place to tone down this public threat we need to see done, God has to address, that's not something the Antichrist wants to become the tone of the "Events of Revelation", more than gathering of the people and saving lives)

Flaminggg
February 8th, 2016, 02:10 PM
the apocalypse

the futurists
recapitulation
the abomination of desolation
the four beasts

books used in my research (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4590051#post4590051)

Futurists? Summarize the 1000 Year Parables of Revelation 20 to be literal description that happens here on earth after the "Events of Revelation", instead of the New Universe
Recapitulation? Summarize that the Antichrist must be Crucified like Jesus to move the Body of Believers to another Nation/Country
Abomination of Desolation? Summarize that when God told Zacharias/Zechariah to be Silent because he was slain between the Temple and the Congregation, that this did not mean that God was finished with Heavenly Salvation (thus invalidating the love and hope the Antichrist brings in Confirming the Covenant)
Four Beast? Summarize that these are not Spiritual Relationships, like God, Holy Spirit, Satan, Babylon, because they are infact all Islamic Nations planning to blow up the next NYC Freedom Tower?

Love and Blessings (I wanted to take away the Tribulation, but instead, 2/10/2016 is my new watch date, as opposed to 2/12/2016)

chrysostom
March 1st, 2016, 05:14 AM
Love and Blessings (I wanted to take away the Tribulation, but instead, 2/10/2016 is my new watch date, as opposed to 2/12/2016)

Blessed is he that watcheth

chrysostom
March 26th, 2016, 05:16 AM
the apocalypse

666 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962902#post3962902)
antipas (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3986856#post3986856)
armageddon (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4020185#post4020185)
babylon the great (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962960#post3962960)
new jerusalem (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3984999#post3984999)
the four horsemen (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962734#post3962734)
the little book (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3968814#post3968814)
the seven heads (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77340)
the ten horns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102648)
the thousand years (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3966309#post3966309)
the three johns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3967530#post3967530)
the two beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4428633#post4428633)
the two witnesses (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4006891#post4006891)
timeline of the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105824)

the jerome biblical commentary (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4344495#post4344495)

the futurists (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105258)
recapitulation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3964046#post3964046)
the abomination of desolation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4346339#post4346339)
the four beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962720#post3962720)

coming soon


now under construction

books used in my research (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4590051#post4590051)

still under construction
-please do not delete

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 06:26 AM
so what is this?

my new project

another revelation thread?

they deleted the other ones

maybe they are not interested

I did suspect that

so why do it again?

it's my job

Why don't you find out what the Apocalypse is really all about? Most people think it's the end of the world...everything will be destroyed, etc. But the Bible actually teaches something far different. Armageddon is the beginning of something very wonderful. All evil will be cleared out of the earth. We will be able to live in a paradise, without sickness and even death.

Check out this website and you can find out the truth about many things: www.jw.org

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 06:28 AM
the first line

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him

If Jesus is God, then....God gave the Revelation to himself.

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 06:29 AM
john
not sure which one
there are three johns
and
at least three different versions of the apocalypse

ONE John. He wrote the Gospel and the three letters. Er, where are there three different versions of the apocalypse?

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 06:31 AM
According to Jesus and John, it already happened... unless you really pervert a couple of words to your liking.

Couldn't have already happened. In the Apocalypse it says that Jesus will reign for a thousand years and there will be no more death, no more causes for pain and sadness. That hasn't happened yet!

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 06:37 AM
Why should I.. they are opened to interpretation.

The fact is that John said these things are 'soon' to happen. I highly doubt that soon in his mind was 2000+ years.

Then there is the fact that Jesus said that some of his audience would still be alive when returned to fulfill all prophesy.

So, either you believe them or you do not. I have confidence that I can take those two people at their word... why cant you?

Nawww. You just don't understand. Jesus spoke of his being revealed in his kingdom glory...that some there would see that...and they DID soon afterward. Peter, James and John saw him glowing like the sun. Matthew 16:28 was fulfilled then and there. Do you read the Bible much?

I imagine that to God 2,000 years going by is "soon." Didn't God, through Jesus, tell John what to write? It would be "soon" to God.

"One day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8; Psalm 90:4)

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 06:42 AM
Babylon the Great is Rome and the Whore of Babylon is the Vatican II sect. That's the truth. http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/apocalypse.php

Naah. Babylon the Great is the world-wide empire of false religion, including all religion that claims to represent the true God but really doesn't. The Whore of Babylon is the same thing as Babylon the Great.

You are Catholic and yet call the Vatican the Whore of Babylon???

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 06:43 AM
so how long have you been working on this?

17 years

how long have you been on tol?

9 years

so you came here to share all this with us?

yes

you must have been disappointed

yes

are you still disappointed?

I am having a good time

nice to hear that

17 years and you still haven't arrived at the truth of the matter? www.jw.org

chrysostom
March 30th, 2016, 06:49 AM
17 years and you still haven't arrived at the truth of the matter? www.jw.org

thanks for watching

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 06:52 AM
also
who is antipas?
no one seems to know anything about him

Revelation 2:13 calls Pergamum the city "where the throne of Satan is." The phrase has been referred to the complex of pagan cults, but the main allusion is probably to emperor worship. Since the martyrdom of Antipas is mentioned in the same verse, Antipas may have been killed for refusing to worship Caesar. Beyond that, I guess we would have to go to non-sacred material to try and find out more about Antipas, such as "False Prophet" has offered.

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 06:58 AM
so why doesn't he mention the antichrist?
why does he use his name four times?
why does he not use the name of Jesus in so many chapters?

John does mention the anti-christ in IJohn 2:18, 4:3; 2John 7. Why would we expect him to mention it again in the Apocalypse? It is not the same as the Beast. Who do you mean when you say, "Why does he use his name four times"? Whose name?

chrysostom
March 30th, 2016, 07:00 AM
John does mention the anti-christ in IJohn 2:18, 4:3; 2John 7. Why would we expect him to mention it again in the Apocalypse? It is not the same as the Beast. Who do you mean when you say, "Why does he use his name four times"? Whose name?

john mentions his name, john, four times in the apocalypse

KingdomRose
March 30th, 2016, 07:04 AM
john mentions his name, john, four times in the apocalypse

Why would that be unusual?

chrysostom
March 30th, 2016, 07:10 AM
Why would that be unusual?

there is no need to mention one's name more than once unless there is more than one person with the same name

chrysostom
April 20th, 2016, 04:17 AM
the apocalypse

666 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962902#post3962902)
antipas (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3986856#post3986856)
armageddon (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4020185#post4020185)
babylon the great (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962960#post3962960)
new jerusalem (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3984999#post3984999)
the four horsemen (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962734#post3962734)
the little book (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3968814#post3968814)
the seven heads (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77340)
the ten horns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102648)
the thousand years (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3966309#post3966309)
the three johns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3967530#post3967530)
the two beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4428633#post4428633)
the two witnesses (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4006891#post4006891)
timeline of the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105824)

the jerome biblical commentary (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4344495#post4344495)

the futurists (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105258)
recapitulation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3964046#post3964046)
the abomination of desolation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4346339#post4346339)
the four beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962720#post3962720)

coming soon


now under construction

books used in my research (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4590051#post4590051)

still under construction

chrysostom
May 18th, 2016, 05:52 AM
please don't delete
-thank you

chrysostom
June 17th, 2016, 09:01 AM
the time is near

SaulToPaul
June 17th, 2016, 09:05 AM
the time is near

For what?

patrick jane
June 17th, 2016, 09:13 AM
the time is near
24397

chrysostom
July 7th, 2016, 03:57 AM
thanks for watching

chrysostom
July 28th, 2016, 06:55 AM
the futurists are still waiting for their interpretation to happen
-so are the jews

SaulToPaul
July 28th, 2016, 07:09 AM
the futurists are still waiting for their interpretation to happen
-so are the jews

The past does not fit. Why are you dead set on making it fit?

chrysostom
September 2nd, 2016, 10:03 AM
The past does not fit. Why are you dead set on making it fit?

to see if I have a reasonable interpretation

chrysostom
September 26th, 2016, 05:02 AM
you can always make the future fit
-it can be anything you want it to be

SaulToPaul
September 26th, 2016, 06:17 AM
you can always make the future fit
-it can be anything you want it to be

Nope, it has to match the details.
Nothing in the past matches. Might as well face it.

chrysostom
October 7th, 2016, 09:39 AM
Nope, it has to match the details.
Nothing in the past matches. Might as well face it.

the jews are still looking for the first coming
-
at least you didn't miss that
-but-
you do spend a lot of time in the ot

SaulToPaul
October 8th, 2016, 03:11 PM
the jews are still looking for the first coming
-
at least you didn't miss that
-but-
you do spend a lot of time in the ot

The first and second comings are covered extensively in the "OT".

chrysostom
October 18th, 2016, 05:31 AM
keep watching
-so-
you don't miss something

chrysostom
October 29th, 2016, 04:50 AM
a work in progress
-
currently looking at newton's stuff

chrysostom
November 8th, 2016, 05:11 AM
the apocalypse

666 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962902#post3962902)
antipas (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3986856#post3986856)
armageddon (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4020185#post4020185)
babylon the great (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962960#post3962960)
new jerusalem (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3984999#post3984999)
the four horsemen (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962734#post3962734)
the little book (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3968814#post3968814)
the seven heads (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77340)
the ten horns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102648)
the thousand years (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3966309#post3966309)
the three johns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3967530#post3967530)
the two beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4428633#post4428633)
the two witnesses (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4006891#post4006891)
timeline of the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105824)

the jerome biblical commentary (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4344495#post4344495)

the futurists (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105258)
recapitulation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3964046#post3964046)
the abomination of desolation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4346339#post4346339)
the four beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962720#post3962720)

coming soon


now under construction

books used in my research (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4590051#post4590051)

Blessed is he that watcheth

chrysostom
November 21st, 2016, 07:14 AM
also watch what newton had to say about the apocalypse

SaulToPaul
November 22nd, 2016, 01:47 PM
also watch what newton had to say about the apocalypse

I doubt Cam has ever read Revelation.

chrysostom
December 6th, 2016, 05:39 AM
I doubt Cam has ever read Revelation.

you would know about isaac
-if-
you knew history

SaulToPaul
December 6th, 2016, 07:30 AM
you would know about isaac
-if-
you knew history

Isaac Hayes?

chrysostom
December 15th, 2016, 06:02 AM
thanks for watching

chrysostom
December 27th, 2016, 05:18 AM
the historicist uses history to interpret the apocalypse

SaulToPaul
December 27th, 2016, 12:23 PM
the historicist uses history to interpret the apocalypse

The day of the LORD, the unveiling, has not happened.

chrysostom
January 10th, 2017, 06:17 AM
The day of the LORD, the unveiling, has not happened.

the thousand years has

SaulToPaul
January 10th, 2017, 08:15 AM
the thousand years has

Nah, the 1000 years is after the LORD returns.
Details are important.

chrysostom
January 28th, 2017, 10:30 AM
Nah, the 1000 years is after the LORD returns.
Details are important.

why do you think it happens after the Lord returns?

SaulToPaul
January 30th, 2017, 11:16 AM
why do you think it happens after the Lord returns?

Read chapter 19, then chapter 20.
Common sense.

chrysostom
March 7th, 2017, 04:44 AM
Read chapter 19, then chapter 20.
Common sense.

did you ever hear about recapitulation?

SaulToPaul
March 7th, 2017, 07:26 AM
did you ever hear about recapitulation?

Chapters 19-20 are sequential according to prophecy.

chrysostom
March 7th, 2017, 11:00 AM
Chapters 19-20 are sequential according to prophecy.

then why doesn't it say Jesus will reign?

SaulToPaul
March 7th, 2017, 11:01 AM
then why doesn't it say Jesus will reign?

:chuckle:

chrysostom
April 3rd, 2017, 03:11 AM
the apocalypse

666 (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962902#post3962902)
antipas (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3986856#post3986856)
armageddon (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4020185#post4020185)
babylon the great (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962960#post3962960)
new jerusalem (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3984999#post3984999)
the four horsemen (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962734#post3962734)
the little book (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3968814#post3968814)
the seven heads (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77340)
the ten horns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102648)
the thousand years (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3966309#post3966309)
the three johns (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3967530#post3967530)
the two beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4428633#post4428633)
the two witnesses (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4006891#post4006891)
timeline of the apocalypse (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105824)

the jerome biblical commentary (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4344495#post4344495)

the futurists (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105258)
recapitulation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3964046#post3964046)
the abomination of desolation (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4346339#post4346339)
the four beasts (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3962720#post3962720)

coming soon


now under construction

books used in my research (http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4590051#post4590051)

thanks for watching

chrysostom
May 10th, 2017, 05:59 AM
a diverse interpretation based on history, the only place you will find fulfillment of prophecy

SaulToPaul
May 10th, 2017, 06:26 AM
a diverse interpretation based on history, the only place you will find fulfillment of prophecy

:chuckle:

chrysostom
June 5th, 2017, 05:42 PM
:chuckle:

thanks for watching -
you might be interested in my blog on the apocalypse (https://apocalypse2blog.wordpress.com/)

chrysostom
July 13th, 2017, 04:12 AM
found another interesting book on the apocalypse
-
constantinople that great city (https://books.google.com/books?id=oT1VAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA293&lpg=PA293&dq=constantinople+can+be+found+no+more+at+all&source=bl&ots=9WSDSYjaBh&sig=Za8TooU70PC51pbf6X44YEX5fec&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjahsjfuoTVAhUK6iYKHR_zB6oQ6AEIMTAB#v=on epage&q=constantinople%20can%20be%20found%20no%20more%20 at%20all&f=false)

chrysostom
August 15th, 2017, 04:21 AM
constantinople can be found no more at all (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+18:21&version=KJV) -
prophecy fulfilled by history

chrysostom
September 9th, 2017, 04:14 AM
the apocalypse is a puzzle with many pieces -
your interpretation can only be confirmed with history
-and-
a sufficient number of pieces that fit

chrysostom
August 11th, 2018, 04:14 AM
History is the key to understanding the Apocalypse